Exhibit A: DL Misogyny
From a recent thread:
"Our disgust of cuntery is from a detached (thankfully) perspective. . .
. . . And what I see is the unbearable agony cunts have in not being able to control, entice or fool gay men, because we have no use for the ridiculous wares they attempt to control their world with.
"What DOES one make of a subspecies that cannot abide its own form, it's own appearance, its own hair color? (Oh, I suppose that plenty of men have issues, but with women it is almost universal. How many women over 30 do you know who has [sic] her own hair color? Absurd, these insane messes screeching that we owe them something like allegiance when they call food "sinful" and have 'guilt' over it."
Is this not clear evidence that there are virulent women-haters among us, here at DL?
Don't tell me DL doesn't promote and encourage misogyny!
Straight women don't need to be here
I'm a gay man, pal. And this kind of thing appalls me.
The fish can fuck off and leave this board.
I mean you continue to make my argument for me.
I have a penis, by the way, perfectly functional.
Tough titties. I choose my battles. Eradicate the homophobia here, generated by straight women, and then I will care. Until then, as the flight attendants say, "not my aisle"
Really, why does not one ever object to the use of "frau" and "cunt" and "fish" on this board? People use those words repeatedly, and no one ever objects. Doesn't that disturb you? Do you not know that gay teens are murdered because of ingrained cultural misogyny? Do you want to be part of that?
The straight women on this board - as far as I can tell who they are! - are not nearly as homophobic as the gay men, who hate themselves with a passionate hatred that they direct at women. But what they mean is, "I hate being gay, because it makes me seem, in the world, to be more like a woman. And I hate women."
Really, get therapy.
[quote]Really, why does not one ever object to the use of "frau" and "cunt" and "fish" on this board? People use those words repeatedly, and no one ever objects.
What board are you reading, hon? People here object to it all the time.
Homophobia at this site is mostly generated by straight women. To deny that is to lie.
Eradicate that and I will care
Too bad, so sad, but straight women are not needed here.
I see them every day, and the ones I know are nothing like the homophobes who invade this site.
Gay men are not women. We merely have the same common enemies.
R15 is so full of shit.
I don't know about you all, but when I got harassed and threatened and terrorized in grade school as a little kid for being gay, the first thing the other kids starting calling me was "girl." The worst thing they could think to call a boy was "girl." "Girl" changed over time to specifically gay slurs. But the message was always clear: what made me gay was because I acted like a girl. Acting like a girl - when you are not a girl - is the root of US hatred of gays. And being a girl and not acting like one.
Gender roles are the first thing kids start to monitor when they want to hurt each other.
Contempt for women is a root cause of homophobia.
And a lot of gay men on this site have clearly internalized a profound contempt for women.
My pussy stinks.
Jesus, THIS thread on a night when I am having to wade through photos of supposedly successful women showing off their pussies like it's all they have to offer?
Bad timing. I literally do not give a shit anymore about women's issues circa 2014. And I assure you any misogyny I have has come from pure experience. Give me the Boys Club any day, especially in business.
This isn't school, this is DL, and the worst homophobes here are straight women. These are not the women we know and love. I really don't care if they are offended. I hope they are offended, offended enough to leave us alone.
I choose my battles. When their homophobic behavior is eradicated here, at a gay site, we'll talk.
r20, your post is Exhibit B.
Do you not think there are a gazillion photos out there of naked men showing off their dicks as if that was all they had to offer?
And do you not think that Hollywood is a business where the only value women have, is if movie executives want to fuck them?
You. Are. The. Problem. r20
I am a man, and I am deeply and continually offended and shocked by the misogyny on this site.
[quote]Eradicate the homophobia here, generated by straight women
The homophobic trolls are not the straight ladies.
Sure, there are some straight women on the gossip threads who say really clueless things. You will get no argument from me on that. In my 12-ish years here, though, I've only seen one of those women turn into a monster when called on it.
The REAL trouble are the Republican and anti-gay trolls. You see them in Chick-Fil-A posts, almost anything political, all over the Isra*l posts, etc.
When people slam the clueless het women in gossip threads [italic]as they are being homophobic[/italic], I have no problem with it. But to claim there is a scourge of straight homophobic women when there isn't, and then say being a sexist 24/7 is justified because of that? That's stupid.
I'm offended by it unless it's directed at someone who said something homophobic.
[quote] And a lot of gay men on this site have clearly internalized a profound contempt for women.
Not for women, only for the homophobic animals who,post here. Anything that offends them is fine with me.
Okay, so then it's okay to use a racial slur against someone who uses and anti-gay slur against you?
How is that okay?
You call me an offensive name, proving your homophobia, and so: my defense is to call you a racist name, proving my racism?
That works? That solves the problem? Really?
The overwhelming majority of homophobic postson this site is generated by straight women. To say otherwise is to LIE. Everyone knows it is true.
Until that ends, like I said, "not my aisle" not my concern. I don't believe in protecting the bigots at this site.
[quote]. I'm offended by it unless it's directed at someone who said something homophobic.
Ie most of the straight women who post here
This site does not allow you to use anti-gay slurs.
This site is completely happy to allow you to say "cunt" and "frau" and "fish."
Actually, R22, I work in that business and was under the impression that, fuckable or not, Jennifer Lawrence's value came in that she could act. And that women like her as much as those lecherous men you give so much credit/blame.
So seeing her reduce herself to a wannabe porn star is disconcerting. And, sadly, a little typical of my experience working with women in the business. But, trust me, the lies and disloyalty are far FAR worse and at least JLaw isn't accused of that (yet).
This isn't a racially denoted site r27, it is a gay site.
Okay, I'm arguing with unreasonable people. You are clearly all Christian fundamentalists and Republicans. You cannot listen to reason. I've done what I can, and now I need a cigarette!
Too bad, so sad, r30. It's a gay site, gay concerns come first.
Nice try r33
r32, no, you're wrong.
YOU ARE WRONG.
This site DELIGHTS in saying vile things about women's bodies and in particular their genitalia, and it delights in hating women who dare to be as strong and powerful as men, and if you say "Women stink down there," everyone cheers.
R33 exemplifies the very worst stereotypes of a straight woman.
Hey, little girl, with your hair up in curlers, why can't you argue a point?
Not unreasonable people, R33, one unreasonable person. It's the same guy who loses his shit every single time there's a thread like this. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if he starts these threads himself out of boredom.
r37, I AM A MAN. A GUY. A GAY MAN.
Your arguments are unreasonable.
Your arguments are: "The straight women on this site are meanies and I hate them."
Sum total of your arguments.
Too bad then, r36. When the homophobia generated by straight women at this site ends, then we will talk. Until then it is not a priority to me.
First things first.
[quote]Okay, I'm arguing with unreasonable people.
Then stop doing it.
Pal, r40, here's the deal:
This site is devoted to contempt for women.
That is why it's here.
Mary! Get over it, sensitive boy. "You're... shocked?" - Eileen Brennan.
Glad you adore all those strong honorable women because they do not give a fuck about you. You're an accessory, no doubt. A hip distraction until the hubby and kids come along.
However you describe my posts is fine as long as you understand that eradicating the homophobia at this site is my priority. And the vast majority of it is posted by straight women.
When that stops, maybe misogyny can be tackled. Until then, I don't give a shit. Anything that makes the majority of homophobes here uncomfortable is fine with me. Anything.
Then why are you here r42?
I'd be more respectful of you if you actually posted what you believe instead of losing your temper and tossing out meaningless hysteria.
Calling women "cunts" and "fraus" and "fish" is misogynist and homophobic.
That is what I believe.
Prove it, R45.
All the homophobic shit in the JLaw threads were from people using the same phrases you see Freepers use in political threads. Women don't go on and on about gay sex and then end it with some claim that all gays are "ashamed" of their sexuality. MEN do, straight Republican men, some of whom are very conflicted. Straight women don't care enough.
Anyway, as soon as you can prove that the homophobic shit is all straight women, let us know. The "everyone knows it's true" bullshit won't fly, BTW.
And the word "hysteria" has historically been used as a way of oppressing and controlling women.
Its root is "hystera," which means "womb."
The implication is that having a womb makes a person crazy and rash and needing to be controlled.
Women have had their clitorises seared or cut off or burned off under cover of their being told they were "hysterical."
Straight women are innocuous . They pose no threat. They have their own battles to fight. My only problem with them is their hair and makeup. I would just love to style them.
Well, I'm a straight woman. I don't think I post anything homophobic and I hardly ever see anything homophobic - but then I don't go on the hot man gossip threads, so I might miss it all. I see a bit of misogyny, but wouldn't you expect at least some anti-straight/anti-women feeling on a gay messageboard?
OP, you might get more out of being here if you just developed a thicker skin and let the odd insult or two pass instead of creating whole threads TELLING gay men how they should run and police their own board. Can you not see how obnoxious that is? And, more to the point, how unlikely it is such a tactic will prove successful?
r51, and why should this be true:
"Wouldn't you expect at least some anti-straight/anti-women feeling on a gay messageboard?"
In other words, you expect gay men to hate women.
Gay men, rather than having contempt for women, should be running, running to join forces with women at every possible opportunity, if for no other reason than the fact that homophobia is a subcategory of misogyny, and a culture that hates women is sure to hate men who have sex with men.
Read the BIBLE, for instance. The first thing those Christian want to do is control women. And next thing: to stone homosexuals to death.
Some of my favorite people are women.
Marilu Henner, Lily Tomlin, Mother Theresa, AnnE, Andrea Martin, Hillary etc.
A whole thread devoted to something that is patently obvious to anyone on DL more than 15 min. Same goes for racism, bigotry and especially Jew hatred.
No, dear. I don't expect gay men to be uniform. I expect there to be a range of opinion. I am not surprised if some DL members express a desire for a gay-only board while others do not. I don't expect gay men to hold opinions I tell them to hold.
I consider misogynistic slurs to be rude. But then, I also hold homophobic, racist, anti-Semitic, Islamophobic and all other generalising slurs to be rude. Personally, I try not to be rude. Hopefully, I succeed. But if anything characterises DL as much as it being a gay board, it's that it is combative in tone. Half the slurs we see aren't even meant; they're just intended to make people lose their shit.
By going at it like a bull in a china shop, you're really not going to get anyone here to hang their head in shame at their misogynistic ways. Including me.
[quote]That is what I believe.
You're dumber than I thought. Calling a heterosexual person a name is not homophobic. Gay men are not women. Period.
I think a little prozac would do wonders for you people.
There are some truly misogynistic gay men, but when it comes to sexism, nobody is worse than the dykes. They hate men, all men, with a passion. Go read their 40+ page thread over at Lchat entitled "I genuinely hate men". I trust straight and bi women more than man-hating dykes any day.
[quote]Half the slurs we see aren't even meant; they're just intended to make people lose their shit.
HOw do you know this for certain?
[quote]I trust straight and bi women more than man-hating dykes any day.
Then find ones that aren't man-hating. I got along well with lesbians at the book store I volunteered at when I came out.
R58, my experience has been the following;
The only people in the world who really do like men are Lesbians.
I do not know a single "man-hating" Lesbian. And I know a lot of Lesbians.
R55, it is not "rude" for a white person to attack black people with racist slurs. It is an historic terrorizing act of the state, or have you never been to America? Or have you not heard what white cops are calling black people in Ferguson, MO?
I don't. Just observation. DL appears to me to have a goodly number of people that love a good argument and will niggle and stir in order to get one. For me, that's a good thing! I don't mean it in a pejorative way.
R61 You don't win an argument by changing the terms. We're talking about interactions on a messageboard - and a messageboard intended to be a home for a particular subset of people. To my mind, if you're not in that subset - GAY MEN - you're a guest. And, as a guest, you don't tell the membership what they should or shouldn't do or say. If you don't like the overall tone, either go away or approach things in a less didactic way.
Where does it say that DL is only for gay men?
For one thing.
And does "gay men only" mean, "Guys finally feeling free to degrade and deride women?"
For another thing.
And is it not everyone's duty - including guests - to confront dehumanizing speech wherever it occurs, particularly if its point is to uphold power structures that oppress and abuse LGBT people, women, black people, etc?
For a third thing.
R62 And because bigotry, racism and misogyny are used as tools for "niggling" and "stirring" indicates to you that the user doesn't necessarily mean it?
[quote]Then find ones that aren't man-hating.
That's like looking for a needle in a haystack. Besides, it's not worth my time. I have no time for dykes. Most miserable people on the planet.
Because homophobia is worse than racism and misogyny because it affects men and women of all races.
Wow, you indict yourselves, you women-hating racist self-loathing homophobes, every word you type.
[quote]a culture that hates women is sure to hate men who have sex with men
True...but not if the men are powerful,masculine and dominant.
[quote]Wow, you indict yourselves, you women-hating racist self-loathing homophobes, every word you type.
Come off it. I never said racism and misogyny weren't bad—of course they are—only that homophobia is an attack on a larger spectrum of the population.
[quote]Gay men, rather than having contempt for women, should be running, running to join forces with women at every possible opportunity, if for no other reason than the fact that homophobia is a subcategory of misogyny
Feminists don't give a fuck about gay men, so why should we run to join them? The most militant feminists are dykes and their only concern is advancing rights and privileges of women and promoting hatred of men. Feminists hate gay men as much as they hate straight men. They can solve their own problems.
A recent poll here suggested that two-thirds of dataloungers see or have seen a psychiatrist. It makes sense. Mentally well men don't have the intense, pathological hate for women you sometimes see on DL.
It isn't as common as some here seem to think. But, when I see it, I assume the poster is mentally ill. There's also a lot of obvious fear behind some of it, a fear that some of these ill men have that the datalounge, which they rely on for contact with other gay men, will be 'stolen' from them by 'fraus'. The posters who attempt to reason with these loons, are wasting their time.
Misogyny must be confronted wherever it occurs. Misogyny is the illness, not a symptom or result of illness, but illness itself.
''What DOES one make of a subspecies that cannot abide its own form, it's own appearance, its own hair color? (Oh, I suppose that plenty of men have issues, but with women it is almost universal. How many women over 30 do you know who has [sic] her own hair color? ''
What ''one'' who is intelligent ''makes'' of women coloring their hair is that it's been done since the dawn of man in one form or another, that it's harmless and that it keeps a lot of gay men in gainful employment.
And anyway, this nut is projecting for days. Gay men are commonly as fearful of the signs of aging as any insecure woman. Because other gay men make that so, with their vicious critiques of other gay men's appearances. This board is obsessed with aging and despises anyone -male or female - who looks less than dewy and fresh after 30. But, this nut can't criticise his own 'community', naturally.
That'll keep you busy, R73. I conserve my anti-misogyny energy for my professional and personal life. Fighting anonymous nuts online is a waste of energy.
[quote]True...but not if the men are powerful,masculine and dominant.
The high yellow (OP) poster in this thread (who revels in arguing incessantly over a topic) reminds me very much of a certain poster who created a Michael Brown "Dog Whistle" thread.
High Yellow was an antagonistic pain in the ass who would not shut the fuck up and anyone who disagreed with HER was called a racist. That thread was eventually deleted.
Now, she's masquerading as a Gay male calling out all of the misogynists as 'he' so valiantly defends the weaker sex. Sure.
She's a shit-stirrer and every one of her posts scream impressionable college girl.
I'm on the OP = impressionable college girl bandwagon. Ignore.
Thanks for calling me an impressionable college girl! I take that as praise. Do you want a screen shot of my erect penis? Then I could feel empathy for JLaw! I'm a guy. I hate misogyny. That's my deal.
Do you have an hobbies you could pursue so you wouldn't have to spill all your bile on DL r79?
R80! "Bile" is on display on the thread entitled "Fish in gay bars." That's where the bile is.
maybe bile was too harsh. I meant something else you enjoy doing instead of internet patrolling?
OP switched IPs (or maybe got on his phone) to evade trolldar. Nice try, cunt.
[quote]I have no time for dykes. Most miserable people on the planet.
Most miserable? Could it be because we take abuse from every single group ?
Straight men loathe us (People have no concept of the kind of hostily we get from straight men)
Straight women hate and riducule us because we're not 'real women', or 'too ugly to get a man'
Gay men ridicule and deride us for no reason that I can think of. Openly, even in the media (think of the violent anti-lesbian rhetoric in Will & Grace for example. Why?) Seriously what the hell do you even have against us? What did we do to you anyway?
Gay men have straight women as their immediate allies. Who do we have? Nobody. Not even gay men.
We get homomhobia + sexism/misogny literraly everywhere, gee, why on earth do you think some of us are "the most miserable" people on earth? Try living a life where everybody hates your fucking guts for just being there.
As for the poster repeating upthread that he will continue using female slurs to counter the homophobia on this site (because he thinks it is posted by straight women?) Guess what, lesbians reading you are women. We do read the anti-gay rhetoric in here, and we do read the woman-hating horrors from you, and the ratio is 20%-80%. Try quitting being such a mindless asshole.
[quote]Try living a life where everybody hates your fucking guts for just being there.
You have NO idea.
Wanted to add too, regarding The L Chat: that forum is filled with that new generation of lesbians -very young- who hate the older generations (read: the lesbians who used masculing clothes / haircuts, they think their manliness is the reason people hate lesbians in general. You should see the "butch" hate/panic there, they accuse everybody of being "butch")
To mark their difference from the older lesbians, they pride themselves in being feminine, girly, use girly clothes and hair, go on and on about how feminine they are, etc. And as a result? They get the full-force violence from straight men IRL, who read them as straight and then get hostile when they realize they're not. Hence the anti-man rhetoric in anonymous forums like The L Chat. They have yet to understand that survival is way more complicated than they think, and that it's basically a lose-lose.
They are very young and want to step away from the "old" lesbian codes, all the while slowly realizing why those codes were used in the first place: protection.
It's still better to be immediately read as "dyke" in the real world by a man, versus having him thinking we're straight and possibly get violent when he gets turned down.
But I digress...
If this is really the sort of thing that occupies your mind, OP, please seek help. I can't imagine you to be a happy, successful person with friends, lovers…..or even any sort of real human contact. I pity you.
Interesting posts, R86. More from you, please.
Where is the thread the unhinged OP is supposedly quoting from?
Is OP trans? That would explain his/her confusion over gender and the seething anger and need to control everything we do and say.
The only women I pick on are fraus and really, not all women are frauen and really, frauen deserve it. It's the entitlement and I'm just as happy to make fun of the "herrs" as well.
Someday, we should talk about gay fraus. They are just as bad and sources of my endless contempt. You know the type of guys I mean.
It's never a good idea to go off your meds on a long weekend, as OP has amply proven to us these last two days.
I don't think the homophobic stuff comes from straight women. I trolldar'd two of them a couple of months back and they both made comments against women and Obama.
[quote]This site is completely happy to allow you to say "cunt" and "frau" and "fish."
I like to say "cunt." There's nowhere else I can say it out loud. However, I use "dick" as an insult just as often. In fact, I find "dick" a more insulting thing to call someone than "cunt."
"Frau" is different. It describes a much smaller, and much more singular, cohort of straight women here, who think their life experience, [italic]especially their sexual experience[/italic], is going to be of equal interest to the gay men who, I hope, predominate here, as hearing about a male-male sexual experience would be.
Hint: It isn't.
"Fish" is something I eat for dinner. It's the only time I use the word.
r84 & r86, thanks for your thoughtful comments!
r93, the people with the most political & financial power in the US have dicks. Calling somebody "a dick" is not a way of depriving them of power.
Where did I write about "depriving (anyone) of power," R95?
[quote]Try living a life where everybody hates your fucking guts for just being there.
You mean be Is-raeli?
LOLOL, R79. Your "erect penis?" The overwhelming majority of gay guys/males/men posting on this board would refer to an "erect penis" as a hard cock. Did you learn that term in Health class?
Oh, and quit referring to posters as "pal." You don't sound like a gay male at.all. You sound like a C-List actor in a 1930's crime drama.
See? You're not even in class, yet I learned you something today. You're welcome.
[quote]You sound like a C-List actor in a 1930's crime drama.
Which are watched mainly by middle aged fraus and gay men these days.
Wow. Interesting to see respondents here perceiving the rather level-headed OP as having "seething anger" and such. ??
Thank you, OP, and/or any other mentally healthy men who have commented here and at least can acknowledge, yes--there is misogyny on this site. It may be a small minority of very angry people spewing it, but it is severe. The acceptance and defense of it--by men and even women in this thread--sadly says a lot about how unhealthy our collective psyche still is.
I agree that it is about hating a part of themselves. ...They just don't realize it.
R100, for me, it's not the topic at hand, but the OP who is causing this kind of reaction.
OP creates threads and then proceeds to take on different personalities, race, gender, IP's whatever it takes to push her relentless opinion on to the rest of us.
If you agree with her, fine. If you don't, look out.
All the people who insist that I'm a woman - me, the OP - don't seem to understand that they're proving all my points by assuming that no gay man would get upset about somebody calling women "fish."
It's instructive to watch you insist repeatedly that I'm not a gay man. Me: 55 years old, white, average-looking Irish American type guy, 5'11" tall, 180 pounds if I'm lucky, did a course of HIV pre-exposure propyhlactics recently because I fucked a guy without a condom, which I've never done before. (Never had sex without a condom, I mean.) What other evidence should I present? Standard issue Irish-guy-type penis, straight up-and-down, gets the job done.
I call it a penis because the words "dick" and "cock" are porn words, and I find porn annoying. "Penis" is a silly word, but in my view, there isn't a decent word for your dick. All the words are zany. There is not word like "arm" or "nose," or just a perfectly boring little word that gets there fast and doesn't stick its tongue out at you.
Don't rag on me about the HIV thing. I told the guy my HIV status - negative - and he told me his - negative - but that's what people tell you, isn't it? And I didn't know the guy, and I got over-cautious and did the PEP thing, which made me dizzy and vague.
Have I distracted you from your rage at women?
I haven't noticed the homophobia-from-straight-women that you all are talking about, on this board. Sometimes a woman insists some movie star isn't gay, but that doesn't strike me as especially upsetting.
The women on this board do not endlessly use anti-gay slurs to identify gay men. They do not post threads with anti-gay slurs in the headings.
And yet: a lot of people routinely create threads with "fish" and "cunt" and "frau" in the headings. And no one - hardly anyone ever - complains.
I find that deeply upsetting.
It's a LITTLE late to start demanding DL adhere to your social ethos. We've been saying these words for years and we have mercy on no one, least of all ourselves. Sorry this isn't Tumblr, bitch.
r103 - "me, me, me, etc"
Could someone please point me to the thread (which I'm betting is non-existent) from where the troll OP pulled the quote?
Wait, the OP is bitching about a thread that's a year old? Yeah, you're nuts.
[quote]Wait, the OP is bitching about a thread that's a year old? Yeah, you're nuts.
Yes, it's the same moron from the Jennifer Lawrence thread saying "gay men" like to be fisted and degraded, so we cannot judge Jennifer Lawrence. When hardly anyone said anything bad about her. The OP is a nuts and a homophobe.
It's always important to question the use of derogatory language when it is encountered, because of the social reality it reflects. As a young woman I have often felt offended and surprised at the misogyny I've encountered here and many other places online and in the real world. I grew up in a country with very little misogyny (and very little homophobia) and until I started exploring other cultures and languages I didn't realise how bad it is in some places - places I thought were developed countries. It makes no sense to hate or generalise about a large group of people, whether it's based on their gender, race, sexual orientation or anything else they were born with. People should be held accountable for their own actions and not be demonised because of their association with others of the same gender, sexual orientation, etc. The world is too complex to be divided into categories like that, and it's exhausting to watch people attempt to do so anyway - because of closemindedness, or lack of education, or whatever it is.
[quote]As a young woman
We are really not interested in what a young woman thinks of our site. Bye.
R111 You should be, since the fight for gay rights and the fight for women's rights is pretty much the same fight.
[quote]since the fight for gay rights and the fight for women's rights is pretty much the same fight.
No it isn't. Women have every single legal right that a man in the US has. They're fighting about things like "slut shaming", fat women acceptance, creepy men staring at them when they have their tits hanging out of their dress, etc. The gay rights movement is actually fighting for legal rights.
What R114 said.
[quote]You should be, since the fight for gay rights and the fight for women's rights is pretty much the same fight.
You're wrong. Goodbye.
Women continue not to have full access to medical insurance covering their reproductive health - depending on their insurance coverage, etc.
Abortion rights, overseen by men, are constantly at risk of being denied to women in various states.
Women are beaten by husbands and lovers every 15 seconds in the US.
About 20% of women are raped at least once in their lifetime.
Homophobia is sexism's tool.
Gay men who have contempt for women are holding the axe over their own heads.
If women are not safe and free and equal, we are not safe and free and equal.
I am a man, and I shared the HIV story above because it seemed to me a story that you'd recognize as something that happened to a guy.
It's important for other gay men to know that this gay guy does not tolerate the misogynistic posts and threads on this board.
It's really tragic how many of you are willing to defend this board contemptuous treatment of women.
[quote]It's really tragic how many of you are willing to defend this board contemptuous treatment of women.
It's even more tragic how little you, as a gay man, value your own sex.
Maybe L Chat fuckers will now start referring to random males as 'cheese'?
Cheesy balls. Cheesy bell end.
You firm of helmets ha ha ha ha ha
r119, you are not paying attention.
I have said repeatedly that homophobia is a subcategory of misogyny, and that gay men - simply in order to protect themselves, if nothing else - need to understand that their rights are integrally bound up with women's rights.
When I speak out against the misogyny on this board, I am also speaking out against anti-gay bigotry, because these two things are one.
You need to read my posts more carefully.
I eat shir.
[quote]You need to read my posts more carefully.
No, we don't. You need to recognize that everyone is not going to agree with you.
What R123 said. If you dish out insults to those who disagree with you, you'd better be prepared to take them in return.
[quote]I eat shir.
eat shit stupid frau OP
I'm calling you out on your misogyny, and asking you to take responsibility for the board's misogyny - to intervene against it.
And insult would be called you a "fish cunt frau."
Misogyny is hatred of women. I do not hate all women, just the stupid, bigoted ones. Could you blame anyone for hating Anita Bryant or Michelle Bachmann?
Perhaps surprisingly, statistics have shown that lesbian people experience domestic violence at a very similar rate to that of heterosexual women (Waldner-Haygrud, 1997; AVP, 1992). It has been estimated that between 17-45% of lesbians have been the victim of at least one act of violence perpetrated by a female partner (Burke et al, 1999; Lie et al, 1991), and that 30% of lesbians have reported sexual assault / rape by another woman (Renzetti, 1992).
Bachmann and Bryant are hateful bigots not because they are women, but because they are hateful bigots.
You guys seem to get confused between the particular and the universal. If you have one bad experience with a woman standing in front of you at the Duane Reade, where you're patiently waiting to pay for your 12-pack of Fleet enemas, you immediately jump to the assertion that all women in the entire world who ever were or will be are terrible people, specifically because they are women.
That's a fallacious little jump you're making there.
What's your point, r129?
Listen: you all are either emotionally disturbed, or you have never read a newspaper.
Misogynistic cultures are inevitably homophobic cultures, and a country that treats women with contempt will inevitably abuse homosexuals.
This is not some piece of startling news to be debated.
This is observable fact.
You all are making yourselves look very stupid and sad.
You sure are obsessed with women, even for a gay man.
r132, the misogyny on this board is alarming.
It's like it's 1963 in here.
I can't stand it.
And yet, I like to post here, sometimes.
So I have to speak out against it.
Why don't you take your tiresome pedantry to a group of heterosexual men who need to be taught this lesson more than we do?
Because, sweetheart, r134, the gay men who post on this board clearly do need to be taught a lesson about misogyny & homophobia.
Otherwise, you'd be objecting every time a post features the word "cunt" in the heading.
[quote]Listen: you all are either emotionally disturbed, or
...or, YOU are the one who is emotionally disturbed. And it's pretty clear that it's you, not we, who are.
You take your own highly subjective opinions on morals as divine pronouncements, and you become furious when people do not agree with them and refer them back to things you've said (as if they were Holy Writ). You post repeatedly for hours on end to the same threads, and try as hard as you can to stir up shit. When people leave in disgust, you crow you've beaten them in argument and achieved moral victory, when all you've done is annoy people into leaving.
It genuinely sounds like you suffer from some sort of actual severe mood disorder, and you've clearly had some kind of breakdown this weekend on Datalounge.
Most of the women I've met are supportive of the gay community. So what's the fucking problem? They have no issue with us so why are there any of us that are willing to hate on them?
[quote]This is observable fact.
God, you're stupid. If you hate it so much just leave. Seriously.
This concept that 'women are our allies' is so silly. Get out in the real world.
r136, I don't hear a furious tone in my posts. I admit that I'm capable of posting again and again for hours. And yes, I am trying as hard as I can to fight back against DL's pernicious and omnipresent misogyny, because I think our lives as gay men depend on women's rights and safety.
[quote]You sure are obsessed with women, even for a gay man.
That's because it's not a gay man. You can tell by "his" nasty posts about gay men wanting to be fisted and degraded and the snide "fleet enema" remark above.
Don't be such a cunt op.
I thought the Fleet enema comment was funny!
Where's your sense of humor!
Plus, I was saying: people started getting judgey and tsk-tsk about JLaw's nude pics, and I was all, "Please. Half of DL posts are about how you want to get fucked hard by a straight guy and lie there with his semen dripping out of your asshole. Don't shame JLaw."
That is not to suggest I have a problem with semen dripping out of anyone's asshole.
That's to say: Don't be hypocrites.
Because the "tsk tsk" tone was coming from people who post endless pictures of guys holding their cheeks wide and showing their assholes.
What's good for the goose. . .
Thanks for calling me a barbiturate!
I think R121. is making a reasonable association between women's rights,gay rights,misogyny and homophobia. You may not like her manner but her assertion is totally valid. The last people we need to turn on in our struggle for equality is women and vice versa...historically it has been progressive women who have been our staunchest allies in this fight be it our mothers,sisters,friends,politicians etc. Do you think straight men were going to just GIVE us those freedoms?!
We have found common cause because of the shared contempt for perceived weakness and submissivenesss that many heterosexual male heirarchies hold us in. I am grateful for the love,compassion and support I have received from many female friends,associates,celebrities and lawmakers. It's true, like all groups women have their frustrating and annoying members but ultimately I believe gays and women are great complements to each other and should continue to nurture and support each other in our continuing assertion for our right to equal treatment under the law.
[quote]Plus, I was saying: people started getting judgey and tsk-tsk about JLaw's nude pics
No they weren't, you lying dumbfuck. There was nothing offensive until you jumped in with your shrieking about gay men being hypocrites who want to get fisted and degraded.
For Chrissake, I am a guy.
I AM NOT A WOMAN.
I AM A GUY.
What is wrong with you all? Is it outside your range of experience or intellectual grasp to imagine that a gay man would be offended by and feel threatened by misogyny and sexism?
I'm not upset to be called a woman, by the way, just upset that you cannot seem to get your head around the fact that men hate misogyny.
r146, for one thing, I don't find anything gay men like to do - or anyone likes to do - sexually, degrading, as long as everyone wants it and no one gets hurt!
Maybe you don't know what a sarcastic tone is. Or irony. Or overstatement. Or various other rhetorical devices meant to emphasize a point.
And please don't try to convince me that there was not a trace of "tsk-tsk" in the response to JLaws nude selfies.
[quote]Do you think straight men were going to just GIVE us those freedoms?!
No. We're going to take them. By force if necessary. And stop calling heterosexuals "straight."
[quote]There was nothing offensive until you jumped in with your shrieking about gay men being hypocrites who want to get fisted and degraded.
I agree, and furthermore, calling gay men misogynists is just another excuse to engage in gay-shaming, a sign of self-loathing.
Why don't you go lecture straight guys. They're the ones who are actually oppressing both women and gay men.
I know plenty of deeply misogynistic gay men.
Just like I know plenty of deeply misogynistic straight guys and gay and straight women.
This board, however, would tend to demonstrate that gay men have more contempt for women than anyone else has.
It is not "shaming" to call out gay men on their racism, sexism, classism, etc.
[quote]Why don't you go lecture straight guys.
Or our "allies", the lesbians over at LChat with their 40 page thread on why they hate men. Of course, that wouldn't work because the second he mentions he's a man they would ban his ass. His mentally ill hysteria is allowed here, unfortunately.
r152, go upthread and read, I think, r84 and r86. She has interesting smart things to say about Lesbians.
You would rather accuse gay men of misogyny than stand up to homophobic women.
PS, as I said in a previous post, "hysteria" has long been used by the medico-scientific communities as a slur against women, seeing as how "hystera" means "womb" - and in the 19th century and into the early 20th, women who were suffering from depression or anxiety or bipolar disorder were often diagnosed as "hysterical," and this was sometimes used as an excuse to mutilate their genitalia.
Her posts were a load of donkey shite, r153.
r154, I'm not aware of this board being packed with homophobic women. I am certainly aware of its being packed with women-hating men. And my focus is this board. In the world, in real life, it's hard for me to confront people one-on-one about much of anything, although I do a lot of political activism, and I'm willing to lie down in the street and block traffic and get arrested, etc., for the good of homosexuals everywhere, women and men and trans people.
[quote]Or our "allies", the lesbians over at LChat with their 40 page thread on why they hate men.
Please. DL has written way more than 40 pages on why they hate women. It's so bad over here that I recall a thread on "The Normal Heart" being deleted because people mentioned the historical presence of lesbians, and a half dozen psychos went off not only denying documented history but insisting lesbians hated gay men. In fact, one guy said lesbians were TRYING TO KILL gay men.
Really, no one on DL has any right to slam L-Chat. It's hypocrisy.
Okay, you women-haters. It's been an education talking to you! I hope you all get fucked really hard tonight by the straight guy you can't stop wanting, because gay men disgust you! Gotta do my homework, kisses all around.
[quote]I'm willing to lie down in the street and block traffic
Please do it, right now. Preferably in front of a steamroller.
Women don't fear gay men like homophobic straight men do.
Some guys seem to think just being in a room with a gay guy is going to rub off on them somehow. Women have no reason to think being with a gay guy is going to make them gay. I think a lot of homophobic straight guys feel so threatened because deep down, they're afraid they might be a tiny bit gay, and they're afraid to find out.
I know a homophobic straight guy, and it's got to be some kind of childhood conditioning. His fear and revulsion towards gay guys is ridiculous and totally uncalled for, but it's obviously real. I'm guessing his preacher dad put that in his head as a child. We've had a lot of conversations about this, and I'm trying to talk him off the ledge about this, but he is just genuinely horrified by the very idea of gay sex. This comes from some kind of brainwashing. It's not rational at all. At least he's now at the point where he can deal with gays on a business level, but every once in a while a guy makes a pass at him and he freaks out. He's built like a brick shithouse and deals with clients in their homes all the time.
[quote]Women don't fear gay men like homophobic straight men do.
Because we're not the ones trying to force ourselves upon them.
you talk too much stupid frau OP
back to the kitchen, do something useful and for gods sake SHUT UPPPPPP!!!!
I'm not offended by Jennifer Lawrence's nudes specifically, I'm more generally offended by ANYONE(who,ostensibly,might have a very real concern about privacy) would be STUPID and SELF-UNPROTECTIVE enough to give access to some, very possibly, short-term fuck buddy with no sense of discretion or empathy to such revealing and intimate images...let alone STORE them on what we all know to be,despite corporate claims to the contrary, an UNSECURED and readily HACKABLE Internet!
Now if one doesn't CARE if pix of one naked or with a dick in ones mouth are out there for all eternity then fuck me. But if you're an A-list,Oscar-winner? Use you damn head!
You would'nt have caught MERYL in that kind of partially self-created, compromising position.
Gay men dislike women because women (no matter how loathesome, boring, or unattractive they might be) get attention from heterosexual men. It's really as simple as that.
Sometimes I think all human beings would be happier if we were all born bisexual. Although... The bonobo is our closest primate relative. All bisexual. Hmm...
[quote]I'm calling you out on your misogyny, and asking you to take responsibility for the board's misogyny - to intervene against it.
And we have said no - NO means NO.
Now go away.
Has anyone seen Ariana Grande's sci-fi themed video for her single "Break Free"?
There's a sweet moment where,as part of Ariana's "crew", two male aliens kiss each other without fear of judgment....name a STRAIGHT MALE artist who would include a detail like that in one of HIS videos.
Women have made a invaluable contribution to the increasing understanding and acceptance of gay people in mainstream life. Don't demonize them now.
R31, you're talking about photos that Lawrence took and shared privately with her lover. That makes her, what?
[quote]name a STRAIGHT MALE artist who would include a detail like that in one of HIS videos.
Macklemore's "Same Love"?
yes, R167, Ariana Grande will save the gays.
You're such a troll.
She's just pandering to a built-in fan base, numnuts. Every trashy female pop star out there panders to 'the gays' because they make money from them.
No female pop star with a huge gay fanbase has made an explicitly pro-gay song like Macklemore. Britney? Nope. Beyonce? Nope. Aguiera? Nope. Etc.
I so don't care about movie stars with naked photos.
Movie stars are rich people. JLaw is really rich! So is Meryl. Love them or not, they are part of the 1%, and therefore part of the problem.
I wouldn't be alive if women had not intervened in my behalf throughout my adolescence.
So I'm grateful for that.
Who the hell is Ariana Grande? Evidently she's not pandering enough.
R172: Are you working undercover for an ex-gay ministry? You're utterly, utterly obsessed with women and misogyny to an unhealthy degree. We get the point, now do be kind and run and tell the people who actually are part of the patriarchy.
r161! I feel for you. I grew up with a lot of intensely abusive homophobic straight guys.
As an adult, though, I find that my closest friends are either gay girls or straight guys.
r174, when posters on this board start objecting to the misogynist language that defines this place, I'll shut up.
R176 = DL's resident masochist.
Gay gossip, politics and pointless bitchery define this place. Misogyny is incidental at best. We just don't care about what you care about and you will never make us care about it. All it will accomplish is you screeching into the ether and getting your ass kicked over and over and over again. I suppose that's what you masochists look for in your online antics.
You know they have clubs for that sort of thing, or you could look on Craigslist.
R177, misogyny is the given of this board. Everyone who doesn't speak out against it is colluding with it.
R159: [quote]Okay, you women-haters. It's been an education talking to you! I hope you all get fucked really hard tonight by the straight guy you can't stop wanting, because gay men disgust you! Gotta do my homework, kisses all around.
Sorry OP but I can't find it in me to support someone who makes such a generalised attack, in such homophobic terms, on the broad range of DL users. Your arguments about misogyny on DL fail, due to your own attitude.
Oh, okay, masochist R179. Well, we have already answered your request that we speak out against it and the answer is NO. We refuse to cave in to your endless nagging and bitching.
And? What are you going to do about it other than waste your time as you whine and whine and whine and get your (presumably huge, flabby) ass handed to you?
No means no, we have said no to you. Is your mental illness so far gone that you cannot even understand that unequivocal reply?
Our answer to you is no. NO.
Now what kind of fucking psycho Narcissistic/Borderline Personality Disorder bullshit response do you have to that?
I'm just a mirror held up to your violent misogyny and your self-loathing homophobia. Nothing I have said is as relentless and tragic and just plain tacky as the misogyny that permeates this board.
R182, you are a sad, sick, obsessive, destructive and self-destructive individual. It's a shame that people like you are allowed free rein on the DL but that's the price we pay for our loose moderating structure.
I suppose it's worth it in the long run. You will eventually find another group to harass, you people always do.
R183! I reiterate my post at r182!
[quote]Macklemore's "Same Love"?
O.k. other than him.
R184, despite your emphatic use of exclamation points, our discussion is at an end.
Now get some rest, dear, you've been hard at your obsessive harassment of everyone on the Datalounge all day and night. Surely your psychiatrist recommends a break now and then.
I have no problem allowing you to have the last word, please feel free to do so. I am aware that those with your particular mental illness need that.
This isn't the last word!
The harassment taking place on DL is the constant harassment of women, whom DLers have agreed as if in acclamation to refer to everywhere and always as "cunts," "fish," and "fraus." Read some threads, it is all there for everyone to constantly see.
[quote]I don't hear a furious tone in my posts.
Then you are not listening. Not that anyone would blame you.
[quote]I thought the Fleet enema comment was funny! Where's your sense of humor!
You and “sense of humor”? No. Oxymoronic.
[quote]For Chrissake, I am a guy. I AM NOT A WOMAN. I AM A GUY. MAN, M-A-N.
Ooh. All caps. So it bothers you to be thought of as a woman. You sound, dare I say it? miso...oh, never mind.
[quote]Maybe you don't know what a sarcastic tone is. Or irony. Or overstatement.
Or maybe [italic]you[/italic] don’t. On second thought, I’ll give you “overstatement.”
Board is back to not letting me post.
Oh, okay, letting me post, but not letting me say anything.
Why is this board so afraid?
This thread is 90% two trolls playing each other. They've eached claimed the most extreme ends of this spectrum and they're just going around in circles, equally noxious.
It's all a matter of "fuck the cunt" being meant literally or figuratively, and the tendency of many women to yell abuse if they don't like the opinions of men.
Yes. Fuck the cunts.
I don't use trolldar, so I have no idea who's posting!
You all need to intervene against misogyny wherever it occurs.
Enjoy your week!
Fighting misogyny doesn't give you the right to be a kick in the cunt or the dick or anything else. Protectionist movements tend to attract control freaks who piggyback on genuine issues. They can feel morally justified to demand and manipulate in the name of the control they lack over their own lives.
Oh ffs OP, STFU. I'm a lesbian and I couldn't care less. I just laugh and roll my eyes when I read "cunt" or "frau". Seriously.. it comes with the territory of being on DL. Besides, I would never ask them to change for me.. why would they? It's primarily a GAY website for men. I don't get to have a saying in what goes on here, I don't think that would be fair. Sometimes you just gotta roll with it.. stop making it a big deal.
One last thing.. have you seen all the man hate on lesbian websites? This is nothing compared to that, trust me on this.
Using 'cunt' towards women makes straight men come over like would-be serial killers. It makes gay men look very ugly and mentally unwell.
So gay men hate women, that's that, huh?
So you all are content to be stereotypes.
stop feeding the troll i.e. R197 who's responsible for half of the stupid posts in this thread
I haven't bothered to read most of this thread, but the posts that claim that all Homophobic posts made on the DL are from women are particularly stupid.
I'm sure some do, but in general straight men are more homophobic than straight women. Women are generally more likely to be accepting . Who are the people making homophobic comments both on and off the sorting field? Men. Who is it that bashes gay men? Straight or closeted men.
And yet there are no derogatory terms for straight men? Why is that?
What I've noticed is the powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this thread.
[quote]And yet there are no derogatory terms for straight men?
Asshole, prick, jerk, dick, douche, douche nozzle, asswipe, tool etc are primarily used to deride straight men. The only difference is that no one wails and bitches and moans about it all the time.
[quote] What I've noticed is the powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity in this thread.
No, that's just a ladyham in dire need of a douching.
People in power in the world have dicks, & so calling someone a dick is not a slight, or in any case, it's not a way to deprive power, but in some sense rather to acknowledge power.