Boardwalk Empire Season 4 - Nucky seems to have mellowed, Eddie is gone, and Margaret is living in New York.
Searched and couldn't find a general thread on Season 4 so I started this one.
Who's been watching? What're your thoughts thus far? I'm not feeling/seeing a bit of chemistry between Patricia Arquette & Nucky. I like her character though.
Will the FBI agent turn out to be J. Edgar Hoover's boy toy? And WTF was up with Eli sobbing in front of the FBI agent in Eddie's room? Completely out of character for him.
Gave up on the show when they killed off the only eye candy last season (the younger guy with the blonde hair, Nucky's protege and nemisis).
Incredibly well done show.
R1, you don't do yourself any favors. It's an incredible, beautifully done series.
And who the hell watches a program JUST to get hard on one of the actors? Are you serious?
The series has become the best show on TV these days. At times it is breath-takingly beautiful and the writing is great. I wasn't so crazy about it at first. Last night there was a scene where the black singer was singing a song with the Onyx club band - the costumes, sets, color, music - everything was perfect. The series is very historically accurate.
Nucky's nephew is a real asshole, probably even worse then Nucky or his brother. I always forget Nucky's brother's name.
I think the writing has gone down hill but the look is still gorgeous.
I was happy to see Patricia Arquette but wonder how large her part will be, since her character lives in Tampa.
I'm assuming Nucky will get a new house man, maybe he'll be cute? What year is it suppose to be?
[quote]Will the FBI agent turn out to be J. Edgar Hoover's boy toy?
I was thinking the same thing.
[quote]And WTF was up with Eli sobbing in front of the FBI agent in Eddie's room? Completely out of character for him.
Right. I think it was a plot device to bring out that monogrammed hanky. Whose initials were those, anyway? It went by too fast, but I got the impression it was a significant detail. I also wondered if maybe Eli wasn't working an angle with the vulnerability act.
My guess is that Eli is going to discover another matching hanky in the clothing/effects of Eddie and realize it's the same as what the FBI agent gave him.
Remember, the asshole agent guy punched Eddie and made him vomit, and I THINK gave him a hanky to help clean up.
Thats just a guess though.
That bothered me because I could not see the initials and I wasn't really sure what to make of Eli's crying.
In real life did Eli commit suicide or something? What a life...awful. I was reading about Lucky and Meyer and it was like one murder right after another, you would think some guilt would have hung with them? I guess not. I admit, the last two weeks I've apparently missed some important moments of the show.
Maybe I'm alone in this, but I am absolutely loving this season. After the overwrought, hammy opera of last season, these new episodes have a very real pulse.
Love the stuff with Willie. And the whole Eddie storyline was very touching.
I totally get why Eli was crying. I think with his son away, the realities of life are finally hitting him. Watching so many of Nucky's minions fall, he has to know what's in the cards for himself and his family. He had real opportunities in life (didn't he?) and he's thrown them all away in service to a vain and empty man.
As much as I love Michael Shannon, I wish they had just left that character out of it. Though, I'm loving the Chicago stuff by and large. The Capones are great.
I don't know, maybe the monogram was JEH?
The guy playing Al Capone is over the top hammy and chewing the scenery.
It's becoming painful to watch him. He could give Bobby Cannavale a run for his money in the cheesy acting category.
[quote]He could give Bobby Cannavale a run for his money in the cheesy acting category.
In terms of cheesiness, a wheel of aged Wisconsin Cheddar couldn't compete with Cannavale.
R7 - Yes, that's it! I knew I had seen a hanky offered recently, but I couldn't quite place the circumstances. I'm sure you're right about how the connection will be made, as well.
Another thing I've been thinking is that the Daughter Maitland character was brought in by Narcisse specifically to tempt and be used as a tool to bring down Chalky.
The monogram was JTM. We know Hoover calls the agent Jim. Now Eli is wondering why somebody supposedly called Knox has a handkerchief with those initials.
By the way, what happened with Richard and his sister? I thought maybe he would stay with her and help take care of her?
I guess I missed all of that...
[quote] The series is very historically accurate.
How do you know?
Boardwalk Empire is a show that lost steam almost immediately. No one will care when it comes to an end, unlike Breaking Bad, Sopranos, Mad Men (speaking for myself).
The thing about Boardwalk is it had a beginning but in reality...the side characters are in reality, the stars of the show.
I mean how much was Nucky involved in the New York gangs and their wars?
At some point I believe Nucky had to go to prison but I forget when. And what year did Al Capone get arrested? I was interested in Margaret's story, Nucky's family life but all of that ended, leaving a hole in the show.
Nucky is based on Enoch "Nucky" Johnson, who was a powerful and flamboyant Atlantic City politician.
I can't watch that show without sexy, hot Michael Pitt. I have zero interest now that he's gone.
[quote]The thing about Boardwalk is it had a beginning but in reality...the side characters are in reality, the stars of the show.
I totally agree. And weirdly, that's what I'm loving about this season. It's like they finally embraced the lack of a center.
Nucky isn't a strong enough character to hang a whole series on. And Buscemi, who, I generally love, isn't charismatic enough to be at the center of anything.
But this season, they're widening the scope, and ironically it's the most focused it's ever been. IMHO.
I'm sorry but this show is ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
I thought last week's episode had tension all around. I was glued to it (for the first time ever.)
Last night's episode... just OK. Loved the boxing match at the end.
I think they need to bring an end to Kelly MacDonald's character. She's dull as dishwater on her own but she can't reconcile herself to life with Nucky. End it. Fantastically somehow.
I thought Michael Pitt was pretty hammy, and his "sex appeal" was all phony posturing, so he wasn't sexy to me.
Yep r22, very quiet and slow moving. I fell asleep about 5 minutes into it last night. Don't try to watch it if you're tired at all. But this morning I put it on and it was pretty good, I still like the show.
Well, that explains the initials on the handkerchief. I wonder if they'll "go there" with him and J. Edgar.
Nice curve ball on Margaret. Don't know where it goes, but nice one.
I missed it, R26. What was the hanky explanation?
[quote]What was the hanky explanation?
Oops, never mind. His name was "Toliver". I thought, for a second it was "Tolson". My mistake.
The monogram on the hanky ended in a "T". That hanky came from Eddie. Tolliver had the hanky in his possession and gave it to Eli when he cried. I think Nucky recognized the hanky as belonging either to himself or to Eddie.
In any case that hanky is associated with Eddie, and Nucky realizes it. He knows something is "off." He doesn't know Eddie was taken by the Feds and questioned and threatened by them. Eddie told him he stayed out all night partying "with friends." Eddie never told Nucky he'd been taken and questioned by FBI thugs.
The Piggly Wiggly guy is too good to be true. He's only with Gillian to trap her. He's probably investigating her murdering that poor boy last season. Maybe he's been hired by his family.
[quote]The Piggly Wiggly guy is too good to be true.
Oh, and what the hell was up with that sheet? Was it superglued to his junk? So artificial.
A lot of post coital talk in this episode.
Something is off about Piggly Wiggly guy. I almost wonder who's going to kill who. Because you know at some point Gillian's going to try to kill him. She can't help it. She's crazy. And if he started divorce proceedings and doesn't follow thru he is in deep shit.
In real life, isn't the O'Bannion murder part of the St. Valentine's Day massacre? Wasn't it done by gangsters dressed as cops in some warehouse?
And in real life, when does Arnold Rothstein get assassinated?
Why was he helping her cold turkey?
It doesn't seem like something a casual screw would do.
OK. Correction. FBI agent,John Tolliver is posing as Warren Knox. Nucky knows him as Knox.
The hanky he gave Eli had his real initials on it. JHT. Nucky is puzzled why he would give Eli a monogram with someone else's initials.
Now if, as it was suggested upthread, Eddie had a similar hanky with a similar monogram in his possession, Nucky will realize that Eddie had contact with the agent and something is terribly wrong.
Also the double snitch who is telling Tolliver to stop giving out monogrammed hankies, I think his name is Means, is a real person. The episode between Torrio & O'Banion about the warehouse and Torrio's arrest, is all true, too, just the way it happened. So is Torrio's order to Capone to kill O'Banion.
I wonder when J. Edgar Hoover's sexual proclivities will assert themselves. I also wonder when his true love, Clyde Tolson comes on the scene.
The only reason the Piggly Wiggly guy is helping Gillian fight her heroin addiction is because he wants her to be "lucid" for when she's arrested and tried for that kid's murder.
The Sieben's Brewery thing was real, too. I recognized the name because I was at the one they resurrected as a micro-brew pub back in the 80s. This link mentions a bit about the history with O'Banion, Torrio, etc.
I'm wondering if Piggly Wiggly guy is some kind of undercover agent? Or maybe a relative of the young guy she murdered, who reminded her of her son.
[quote]Last night there was a scene where the black singer was singing a song
That song is called "Saint Louis Blues." It's very famous, but the one two episodes ago was one of the best interpretations I've heard.
The handkerchief was Agent "Knox's", with the initials of his real name.
I missed some things about Chalkie and that whole storyline...so Wright actually murdered the girls mother, and she still loves him?
Did Chalkie murder someone? Who was it?
R40, Yes, Dr. Narcisse killed her mom and she is still in his thrall. He's almost like a cult leader with the way he manipulates.
And that was Purnsley, not Chalky, who killed the man in the church. Purnsley killed him because the man was on his way to tell Chalky about Purnsley selling drugs in the community.
I'm pretty sure the Piggly Wiggly guy is an undercover agent.
Yeah, but that dope dealer can't really think Chalky won't find out? I have a feeling things are moving in a trajectory towards a huge confrontation between Narcisse & Chalky. Chalky is going to realize his Pretty Thang, Daughter is reporting to Narcisse, and Chalky might kill her. Chalky's dope dealing, double dealing, murderous employee is going to die, and I bet Nucky helps rid Chalky of Valentin Narcisse to sort of "return the favor" Chalky did him last season.
Someone on another board seems to think that Piggly Wiggly guy is connected to Gurrah Shapiro.
The Loeb and Leopold headline in the newspaper the cop was reading when he got shot tells me it was 1924. Arnold Rothstein doesn't get murdered until 1928. I'm surprised they're showing him in such a weakened state so soon. Arnold was still a force to be reckoned with in 1924.
R31-I wish Gillian had not killed off Billy Magnusson after only two episodes last season.. of course he got Broadway, a Tony nomination and is now playing a prince in INTO THE WOODS being filmed in England. So I guess it all worked out for him.
Ron Livingston as Gillian's suitor and /or FBI undercover Remember him from SEX AND THE CITY? He played one of SJP's boyfriends.
If Rothstein got killed in 1928 I suspect next season could start with his murder and do a time jump to 1929. Terence Winter has said he wants to end the series in 1929.
Speaking of deaths, has anyone noticed how wacxen and gaunt Steve Buscemi looks lately? They're using a lot of make up to make him look less cadaverous, but it wouldn't surprise me if Steve Buscemi has some serious health issues in real life. He was never much to look at, but lately he looks bad, even for him.
I meant "waxen."
Isn't Jeffrey Wright playing a historical figure? So they can't really kill him off. When did he die in real life?
I find the actor who plays Rothstein oddly hot. And I do mean oddly. He looks like unkneaded white dough to me. Yet I want to have sex with it.
Maybe Steve needs to eat a sandwich? The fact is, he looks nothing like the real Nucky.
I hope SB isn't sick, I've been a fan for years and that's why I started watching Boardwalk Empire.
I can never remember the Reverend's name...I'll look him up in Wiki but I didn't think he was the person who was killed.
Maybe the real Minister was killed?
Steven looks just like Nucky Thompson - a fictional character. There was no Nucky Thompson, there was a Nucky Johnson. Get with it R52.
And Gillian is based on great-grandma Lohan, yes?
[quote]Isn't Jeffrey Wright playing a historical figure? So they can't really kill him off. When did he die in real life?
In a series that contains several real-life prohibition-era crime figures, Wright revealed that his character is a "funhouse mirror distortion" of a Harlem racketeer named Casper Holstein.
"My character is an immigrant from Trinidad; Casper Holstein came up from the Virgin Islands, and ultimately became the biggest and first massive numbers-runner in Harlem, early 1920s, Wright explained... My guy is him, but with all the benevolence sucked out of him."
I'm sorry, but every time Dr. Narcisse introduces himself, I keep expecting him to say, "I am Dr. Narcisse Sissyboodles." I don't know why, and it never fails to crack me up.
I am loving his character. Anybody who can make Chalky White seem like a wide eyed innocent is definitely the best villain around. I also really enjoy the musical numbers with Daughter Maitland.
It's funny to me that Betty Draper's brother is J. Edgar Hoover. I'm secretly hoping they'll do a seen wherein he's dressed like a flapper.
But he was based on a real person as I said, they looked nothing alike. The real Nucky's image has been somewhat whitewashed IMO, by his nephew(?).
I can not find Jeffrey Wright's character in Wikipedia. His first name is Valentine.
[quote]I'm secretly hoping they'll do a seen
[quote]Arnold Rothstein doesn't get murdered until 1928. I'm surprised they're showing him in such a weakened state so soon. Arnold was still a force to be reckoned with in 1924.
Right, I was also wondering why he would be patronizing a cheesy, low rent brokerage outfit like that. Then it occurred to me that it could be part of a money laundering scheme or something like that.
Some of the historical characters and dates have been altered for the sake of the story. It's called dramatic license, people. Boardwalk Empire isn't a fucking documentary. Christ.
I thought the "investment" ties in more with Rothstein's gambling issues.
And r58, scene schmene, you got me. And I'm guessing that's your best contribution to Datalounge yet.
Jeffrey Wright plays Valentin Narcisse. I don't know if he's a real historical figure or an invention. But I do know about Marcus Garvey, who was real, and the Negro Improvement Association which was real, and the whole back to Africa movement was real.
Either Valentin poses as a Garveyite, or he's a prototype for a self styled Garvey-like leader. Wright's character is a drug dealer, scam artist, murderer and all around thug.
Wouldn't surprise me if the vicious guy selling dope, who also works for Chalky, ends up killing Valentin. I just know they're going to have a major falling out and one will kill off the other. I hope they don't kill off Chalky. He already died once in The Wire.
Loved the version of St. Louis Blues- best Evah!
I don't think the Piggly Wiggly guy is trying to entrap Gillian into confessing her murder of the boy. How would the Piggly Woggly guy even know? And what about that business meeting at the club? Was that a hoax? Sooo, I am just not certain what the angle is....
[quote]And I'm guessing that's your best contribution to Datalounge yet.
Actually no. But sorry to tap into your insecurities.
One of the main stand-ins on the show told me that the Piggly Wiggly guy is only with Gillian to trap her and get her arrested for the kid's murder. And this guy has worked pretty much every day on the show for four years so his spoilers have always been correct.
"Actually no. But sorry to tap into your insecurities.
by: r58, chuckling at the little man with the bad spelling"
Speaks for itself, doesn't it?
R65, ask him what the story is on the guy playing Agent Knox. I find him hot.
neener neener. Go to bed, you'll be over it in the morning.
[quote]Jeffrey Wright plays Valentin Narcisse
The Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan, the Libyan,
Did he kill the pastor or just another guy?
I looked up O'Banion and he was killed in 1924...I thought this story was going on a little later in the decade.
But will you be over it, r68? Taking joy in someone else's mistakes is the very definition of a "little man." And I'm guessing pointing out other people's mistakes is one of the few ways you know how to bolster your own self-esteem. Meanwhile, grammar trolls are everywhere on Datalounge. I'm sure you felt safe among your herd.
And yet, you failed to shame me. And that's embarrassing for you, isn't it? It takes away from the smug satisfaction you felt after your initial post. I'm sure you thought of it as an easy "win."
Not so easy now when you have to keep posting if only to have the last word. People like you probably think Datalounge is all about the pointless bitchery. You fail to realize you only come across as a pointless bitch.
I would love to keep up the argument. But I think I've exhausted the topic.
Now it's your turn I guess.
Chalkey is a thug but still, I don't want him gone. Even when he's mean, I keep trying to see some good in him. He might remind me of someone I've known.
I think the character playing Willie Thompson is hot.
His name is Ben Rosenfield. What do we know about him?
I'm a big Boardwalk apologist, but this last episode was ridiculous. I'm all for a theme or motif unifying an episode, but EVERY single person being a double agent? Come on. Too twisty.
Wow. Hadn't thought about it that way. But you know, everyone was double dealing. Agent "Knox", Dunn the Dope man playing up to Valentin & undermining Chalky, while working for Chalky.
Then Valentin's pretending to be a Black Nationalist leader, and a drug dealer and scam artist. There's Nucky's estranged wife pretending to be someone else, working for a scam stock broker, and Arnold Rothstein going by an alias.
And Daughter is fucking Chalky, and reporting to Valentin, who she is also fucking, and Willie, Eli's son with his big secret that Uncle Nucky cleaned up. Shit. It's endless.
I found this latest episode most confusing, as it were.
Willie's cute. I want to run my fingers through his hair.
The FBI agent is disturbing to look at; that lower, quivering mouth of his, as if he's about to break down into sobs at any second.
I find the actor irritating and hammy and all around BAD. Who the fuck is this guy and why was he cast in such a pivotal role for this season?
There's no way Eli will betray Nucky again. If he doesn't he needs to go. I grow tired of the character anyway. I suppose we're supposed to feel/see his constant struggle between family man and loyal mobster brother but the character itself is tedious to watch. Maybe it's time he go the route of Michael Pitt. I liked Eddie the manservant much better.
As someone else has noted, sometimes the fact that Steve Buscemi was oddly cast for this show shines through. At times you realize how bland he is in the role. Other times, you love him.
SO thankful we still have Chalky. He's one of my favorite characters. For a while, I thought perhaps he'd be moving on.
Dunn was a hot man though, a big stud, one of the sexiest guys on Boardwalk. I'll miss him for that anyway. That actor needed a break too, he has no Wikipedia page and no biographical info on imdb. I wanted to see if he played football, he looks like he would've.
I also think Mickey is really hot, and giggling is oddly charming. I hope he gets to get Nucky back for whacking him on the head.
Patricia Arquette still looks great and is doing a fine job with her role. This is sort of a comeback for her since she'd become a bit of a joke with her Medium show.
Definitely one of the better episodes this season, immediately following a pretty boring one.
I thought Chalky was dead.
Eli is a mess, always has been and you know he is a wild card. He has no great love for his brother but really Nucky should have set him up in a legitimate business after he realized his brother couldn't handle the pressures of a life in crime.
After the feds talked to him, he should have gone straight to Nucky. Nucky would know what to do.
I think they should get the kid a new name and send him to Tampa. He is obviously a sociopath and no one can trust their back when he's around.
I still want Willie Thompson deep inside of me.
Am I wrong for desiring him? and then having the desire to stroke his curly hair as we lie in the bed with me full of his sperm?
Am I a whore?
Did you get paid? You are probably just a common slut.
Paul Sparks, who plays Mickey Doyle, was in the Broadway production of TAKE ME OUT. So did he go full frontal?
I wish to watch the remainder of this program with R56.
That cracked me up R56. Please come sit by me.
[quote]It's funny to me that Betty Draper's brother is J. Edgar Hoover. I'm secretly hoping they'll do a seen wherein he's dressed like a flapper.
He was also on the first two seasons of The Killing. He's a huge ham with cloves sticking out of him. His accent as J. Edgar makes me laugh.
The Doctor sure is a cruel motherfucker.
So what is Nucky going to do w/the Chalky and Doctor feud? I hope Chalky ends up OK. The Doctor is a sick fuck...
Like the Patricia A character. But not sure if she and Nucky have any chemistry...
So Jillian's rich beau has a family? Poor Jillian- raped at 13! I do feel sorry for her.
Her story seems to mirror Daughters- both are entrapped to rich older men who raped/molested them when they were very young.
wish Dunn hadn't been killed and really wish we had more Harrow.
Harrow is getting married and will be working for Nucky? He may end up as the hit man for the Doctor.
Is anyone watching this show?
I am. Great episode last night. I'm worried for Chalky.
And I'm getting a little tired of Al Capone scratching his nose. I like the actor; it's just getting a mite obvious.
I am hopeful Chalky is OK but the song at the end was not so hopeful...:(.
Creepy scene between the Doctor and Chalky's daughter. I was fearful he was going to seduce her.
And the J Edgar Hoover blowing off the secret agent who has been blackmailing ELi was curious....
Surprise season. It's like watching modern Shakespeare, no kidding. Violent, brooding and philosophical. Complex plots, loyalties tested, betrayed and redeemed. Family, race and ethnicity discussed with brutal honesty. Amazing writing and acting this year, and the foregrounding of powerful black characters and actors--absolutely fantastic. I thought the series was over last year, too much melodrama, writing stale, but hugely improved now. New show runner?
As for the overpraised Homeland, meh. So much teen angst. Hatufim, on the other hand, and the series Homeland is based on, you should watch--it is so far superior.
my personal recs for TV:
The Escape Artist UK (David Tennant)
Tunnel UK (Stephen Dillane, aka Stannis on GOT) based upon:
the latter 4 now in hardcoded UK subs
I can't tolerate much more of the 'Dr. Narcisse' character and his hush-toned hamminess.
It's just become too much and too fucking silly. Please kill him off already. I've started fast forwarding through much of the scenes with this guy.
R93, I agree about Boardwalk. Very Shakespearean. I am loving it. I'm worried about Chalky's kids, and Eli's son Willy, and as much as I hate Narcisse, I really want something bad to happen to that FBI agent. Hoover obviously doesn't like him, and is less concerned with the mobsters, than he is with the African Americans and the Communists and anarchists. The mystery behind Ron Livingston's character is intriguing too. I can't imagine Gillian getting that kid. Harrow will kill her.
R91, between the Capone character and Dr Narcisse, I'm not sure who's chewing the scenery more. It's as if they had to carry on the over the top scene chewing of Bobby Cannavale. I think the Capone actor takes the prize though.
Hoover used to gamble a lot, place bets with Mob people. The gangster Frank Costello used to complain how much it would cost him to make sure Hoover won his five dollar bets. In consideration for this, Hoover turned a blind eye to the mob and even stated unequivocally that there was no such thing as "The Mafia." So I'm very interested to see how this all plays out with the gung-ho agent. (Also there's a rumor that Costello had photographic evidence of Hoover's cross-dressing).
So glad they didn't kill off Chalky last night. This is the best thing the actor's done since The Wire.
I wonder how far the series will take us. Mazaria and a rival of his, Maranzano, who we haven't seen yet, both get assassinated by Luciano and Lansky in 1931, and Prohibition ends in 1933.
Arnold Rothstein is killed in 1928. Nucky goes to jail for tax evasion in the 40's. Capone goes away in the 30's. I love mob history.
IMO, they could end the series with the assassination of the two most powerful old dons in 1931, and do a photo montage of Luciano, Lansky, etc. as the beginning of a new era. Or they could wait and use Prohibition's defeat as the end of an era.
Someone call Marty Scorcese for me?
Started out a bit slow, but is turning out to be a very strong season.
I am bothered a bit that Capone has become such a cutout, he had a lot more depth and emotional resonance in the early seasons when his issues with his deaf kid were addressed.
I agree, R99. He's apparently evolving into the pig he must have been towards the end. I wonder when Frank Nitti will be introduced. I mean, you can't have Capone without his "enforcer" Nitti.
Who is the old guy whose eyes go in different directions again? Mickey isn't dead yet, either.
[quote]Who is the old guy whose eyes go in different directions again?
That's Joe Mazaria, right?
I think he means Al Capone's boss, Johnny Torrio (who seems to be trying to get rid of Al, if the last episode was any indication).
We have four big deaths coming up. Johnny Torrio, Mazaria, Ferranzano, and Arnold Rothstein. This is historic fact.
Now, they all died around 1928-1931. I think in the series it's 1924, but it seems like time is passing awfully slow.
I will make a prediction. It seems to me, that Daughter is going to die. I think Narcisse will kill her, and Chalky will kill Narcisse.
I sincerely hope that Narcisse doesn't mess with Chalky's kids. I have a bad feeling about his son. I have a bad feeling about Eli's son.
Eli's son Willie is hot to death. We need to see him naked, forthwith. Or at least shirtless again.
Only two episodes left!
I meant Meranzano, gets killed. I wish someone had spoilers so I knew how it ended this season. Someone had to have seen it already. DL used to have a lot of little insiders but now we know no one. The only people who post here are clerks.
Is it just two episodes left? Then on one hand I think it's been an awful season because Margaret has done shit and Gillian, sort of a sick, twisted comic relief, hasn't done much either.
On the other hand I've found this season totally compelling.... far less blood and guts but every character has had me glued and I've no explanation for it.
Huh, only two episodes. Fucking loving this show this year.
I think the last two episodes are going to be doozies. Everything is leading toward some terrible awful thing. And I don't mean chocolate pies laced with shit.
I hope Daughter is alright. I love her singing. I am worried about Chalky's kids.
Why did they bring Margaret back? What a drip!
I love love love Anatol Yusef, who plays Meyer Lansky. Like the actors who play Al Capone and Richard Harrow, he's English, though you'd never be able to tell.
I think the guy who plays Luciano is a hot little piece.
Why is her name Daughter? Does anybody know anybody named Daughter?
I had no idea that Jack Huston was born/raised in the UK.
I just assumed the doc calls her "daughter" because he sees her as his own child (as sick as that might seem) and also shed her past as the daughter of the whore who the doc killed.
It's still a pretentious name, R116.
Maitland is a pretty name, however. It sounds too contemporary, though.
After season 2 the show just lost it's vibe, partly due to an aimless story, partly due to losing a vital character (Jimmy Darmondy) who was actually the spirit of the show, and partly due to two dimensional characters such as Gyp Rosetti. I sat through the whole crappy third season waiting for it to get better and it never did. The fourth season is only slightly better than the third, but it is still basically an aimless storyline.
I wonder if the name "Daughter" is derived from the fact that, in the old days, if a name was not yet chosen for an infant at the time of discharge from the maternity ward, they would simply fill in "Female" Smith, etc. I would imagine the term "daughter" may have been used similarly. They used to joke about how sometimes whatever the placeholder name on the birth certificate was would become permanent because nobody bothered to change it.
Glllian is leathal. I have a bad feeling about Ron Livingston's future. I'd pick him for the Big Adios before I'd believe anything bad happens to Gillian. She's a scary girl.
OK, ladies! This is the second to the last episode for the season. If things follow the pattern established in the previous three seasons, what can we expect tonight?
Last night was a snore.
Gillian was arrested after admitting to murder. Now, who hired the Pinkertons?
Also want to know how Narcisse's people, if it was them, tracked Chalky to his hideout.
I'm glad at least one thing was resolved last night. I can't see Gillian getting custody of the little boy. Did Ron Livingston really shoot that guy or was it staged for Gillian?
I think Nucky is putting things together about Eli.
[quote] OK, ladies!
I also think Nucky is getting suspicious. Eli freaked over the insurance story but barely blinked when Nucky recited that silly poem to him.
Please don't kill Chalky.
Haven't gone through the thread, but is this one where someone told us a while back what would happen to Jillian?
Someone said they knew a person who worked on the set.
Oh, I think Nucky knows that something is very awry with both Eli and Agent Knox. You could tell he was already putting the pieces together between Eli's reactions and the story about the insurance salesman. Stupid, Nucky is not.
Is that how Gillian is going out?
Chalky's storyline was at a stasis last night. I was bored.
I actually love Gillian. It was such a mistake to kill off Jimmy. The show hasn't been the same without him. And without him, and the Commodore, there's no need for her. I always felt they were the (granted, fucked up) emotional center of the show. With both of them gone, it's just murder and mayhem. I don't think I'll watch next year.
I find it pretty implausible that Nucky got anything out of that innocuous story about the insurance salesman. Very contrived.
No it wasn't contrived, R129.
It was Eli's reaction to that innocuous story that got Nucky thinking. And when you're constantly having to watch your back, you pay closer attention to details.
Yes but Nucky is sharp and tested Eli w/that poem.
Anyway, I will really miss Gillian. That certainly was an elaborate ruse. Why did she even admit to that murder to her "potential husband"?
She was like a caged animal at the end.
She was sort of trapped into killing that boy to get the ownership of the house to support herself. Really Gillian had limited options..
I still want to know who hired the Pinkertons. I hope Jillian's not over. Maybe she'll be sent to a nut house, and, in time, she'll figure out a way to get out. She really is one of the more interesting characters, even if she's a monster. It looked like Tony Soprano's Uncle Junior turned her in. Her own lawyer.
Nucky knows something's wrong with Eli. That's why he told Eli to set up the meeting. Nucky has something up his sleeve. I think he'll find a way to get Chalky home, and make peace with him.
Are Knox & Eli really that dumb to think they can sweep all these gangsters up by putting them in one room? Like none of the gangsters will suspect a thing? What becomes of Eli if that really goes down? He'd have no future.
Remember how Nucky asked Willie if he recognized the insurance man? He knows something is up. Now he's on high alert.
[quote]I still want to know who hired the Pinkertons.
Likely the boy's family. Harrow doesn't have that kind of money and Nuckie had no reason to want her arrested.
[quote]I can't see Gillian getting custody of the little boy.
Neither could she. She essentially gave up on that last night when she gave him the dog tags and told Harrow to take good care of him. That`s also why she accepted to go off to California with the detective.
"Did Ron Livingston really shoot that guy or was it staged for Gillian?"
No, and yes.
"Now, who hired the Pinkertons?"
I thought it was clear that Dominic Chianese's character hired them, otherwise why would he have been there at her arrest. He was obviously in on the ruse. In all likelihood he will gain control over the Commodore's assets/estate.
I don't know if Dominic hired the Pinkertons, but he certainly was cooperating with them. Did I miss something?
And didn't he already have control of the Commodore's money? Gillian didn't control it. She had the house, but she could barely afford it. I wonder if we'll ever find out about the young man she murdered.
[quote] I wonder if we'll ever find out about the young man she murdered.
Wasn't that the guy that she seduced who looked just like her son/lover? She was
pretty stoned at the time if I recall and
the "young man" was a Jimmy doppelganger.
More incestuous craziness.
[quote]She was pretty stoned at the time if I recall and the "young man" was a Jimmy doppelganger. More incestuous craziness.
She wasn't stoned. She wasn't doing heroin yet (that came the night of the big shoot out, when she tried to stick Bobby Canavale's character with heroin and he turned the needle on her). She did get the kid stoned (she picked him up on the Boardwalk) and drowned him in the bathtub.
She chose him on purpose because he resembled Jimmy and without Jimmy's body (his body was never found... he just disappeared)she could not inherit the house (or have control of it... since the son would inherit).
R137, I agree with you except I thought Gillian started doing drugs before Bobby Canavale came on the scene.
Gillian wasn't doing drugs before she was shot up by Bobby C. That was the beginning of her drug dependence. Prior to that she used it to kill the Jimmy look-a-like and tried to kill Bobby with it.
Jesus Christ would the tiresome "JIMMY!" troll give it a rest already?
We get it, you thought the actor was 'hawt' and that it was a mistake and blah blah fucking blah.
It was three years ago. I didn't like it either. It's a television show. People come and go. Let it fucking go already, join the discussion or go start your own obscure actor fan obsessed thread someplace.
[quote]She was sort of trapped into killing that boy to get the ownership of the house to support herself. Really Gillian had limited options..
Not even posting a photo of herself could prove further that R131 is female. This is how women think. Men are expendable when their own care and upkeep are concerned. Scary shit.
It's a TV show, not real life. Get a fucking grip, R141.
The television show wasn't the point, R142. Now go make me a fucking sandwich.
R141... I am a gal! Blushing that u guessed.
But if u consider she had limited options to support herself and Harrow/ grandson/her would have been kicked to the curb...what could she do? Why is it ok for Harrow to kill and she is judged more harshly?
Trolldar may not work as I am typing on my IPad. But I am 131 the man hater ...
[quote]The television show wasn't the point, [R142]. Now go make me a fucking sandwich.
Not the point. There are no heroes or angels on this show. Everybody is in shades of gray and all have done immoral and/or criminal things for various reasons and rationalizations. That's what makes the show interesting. In the scheme of things, Gillian is on the low end of evil characters and most of the men on this show have killed scores of people for a lot less.
Now go ask your mother to make your sandwich.
[quote] I find it pretty implausible that Nucky got anything out of that innocuous story about the insurance salesman. Very contrived.
On second thought it was more contrived that Eli's wife even brought up this anecdote at the table, and even sillier she would conveniently refer to the salesman being "babyfaced" (or whatever it was she called him).
is there any possibility that the insurance man that Harrow killed in the first episode is somehow connected to bigger story?
If you were paying attention, I thought they strongly hinted Leander (Dominic Chianese's character) had hired Pinkertons. Obviously there's the fact that he was at the scene with the detectives, but there was also a line where he said something like "I couldn't let you get away with it for Louis' sake".
Louis was the Commodore's first name. He was privy to Gillian's scheme to kill the kid and pass it off as Jimmy, and my guess is he strongly suspected Jimmy and Gillian's involvement in the Commodore's death. This was his revenge on her for killing the Commodore, who he was ultimately loyal to.
what are you talking about r147? insurance man?
r147 is referring to this scene from Episode 1 season 4.
I don't know if this is part of a larger plot but it was a great scene,
I think R147 is talking about the guy Harrow killed at his sister's farm.
OK. So now, if Gillian is convicted of murdering the young guy, does Leander get the house? Does it become his estate or does it become Gillian's grandson's inheritance? I think Gillian had more than one reason for wanting to regain custody of her grandson, and maybe it was tied to her claim on the estate?
Eli's already shown Nucky he's capable of betrayal. While Nucky seems to have forgiven him, and does loves him, I don't think Nucky will ever fully trust him again, and he's always watching him.
As for Eli's silly wife,I think she's just a blabbermouth babbling to make dinner conversation. She probably thought she was complimenting her husband for getting insurance to look out for his family, not spilling on the FBI. I wonder if Nucky will ever find out the link between Knox and Eddie's suicide. You can tell Nucky misses Eddie.
this is r147, I was talking about the scene in r150 link.
Mr. Werner from the insurance company. I was wondering because the scene had such impact but the story didn't seem to go anywhere and I was wondering if it was part of a larger story.
thanks r150 for the link
Anybody remember those times Richard/ The Tin Man kept his little scrapbook showing him in happy scenes of him and his family? Then having the boardwalk photo taken of the woman he's now married to with Tommy, Jimmy's little boy?
I think with Gillian gone, the estate will go to the boy, and the boy is all but officially adopted by Richard and the new wife.
I expect when next season opens, Richard and new happy little family will be living in the big mansion. Only he'll be working for Nucky.
Did anyone catch what the relationship between Chalky and the old man was and why Chalky went there?
I'm assuming Chalky thinks Nucky sent the cops to kill him when in fact Nucky tried to stop it.
I knew when the old man was berating his nephew that he would likely end up with Chalky. After said nephew took out all those guys with guns, I'm assuming he'll become Chalky's new right hand man.
They can't get rid of Chalky's girlfriend soon enough. She's irritating and it's sick of the 'edgy' close-ups of her face in every scene she's in. That said the scene of her standing out by the river when Chalky came to talk to her was absolutely beautifully shot. The lighting was gorgeous and that was one of the better scenes of the entire series, if not for dialogue, then for the cinematography.
Poor Mrs. Chalky. She doesn't deserve this.
I guess I'm in the minority in that I liked the Chalky/Lou Gosset Jr. scenes. Unsettling.
Can someone remind me exactly why Harrow hates Gillian so much?
guess all of youtube is down r150 but I remember that scene well sort of "millers crossing" I would be surprised if they took that much time on a scene that had no further story but we will see.
I feel mixed about this season so far. Highs and Lows.. Sad Dunn is gone.
R148 is correct. My friend, who was one of the main stand-ins on it, confirmed it. He also told me next season will fast forward to 1928 and the first episode will be Rothstein's death.
Did I miss them killing Mickey? I don't remember seeing it.
loved the Chalky scene with Lous Gossett jr. Thanks for the link @ r150 I also thought the "Mr. Werner" scene was part of a larger story but I guess not.
Killer scene though, no pun intended.
Have noticed that the best overall episodes tend to be directed by Tim Van Patten but he has been directing less this year, or so it seems
Everything has come together for Richard, Marriage, Tommy ect..........so he is going to die this week.
Not necessarily. He could be ascendant. I expect Harrow and Van Alden to survive. I wonder about Eli.
[quote]Can someone remind me exactly why Harrow hates Gillian so much?
Richard loved Jimmy's wife Angela. Gillian, of course, hated Angela (jealousy), and when she was murdered, Gillian made a concerted effort to have Tommy forget his mother, to the point of forbidding Richard from talking to Tommy about her. Richard also hates Gillian for raising Tommy in a whorehouse filled with mobsters, which almost got Tommy killed. Tommy still has trouble sleeping because of this.
[quote]Everything has come together for Richard, Marriage, Tommy ect..........so he is going to die this week.
In the preview of the finale, there's a quick shot of Richard walking up to his home in Wisconsin, with his wife, father-in-law, sister, brother-in-law, and newborn niece/nephew all sitting on the porch. People are speculating that this is Richard's last image as he's dying--returning home to all his loved ones who are waiting for him. I'm hoping it's simply a dream (if it was Richard's idyllic "happy ending", then why does his house still look like a shack?), but the speculation is making me uneasy.
I thought Sunday night totally lost momentum.
Does anybody know why Kelly Macdonald has been so underused this season?
I thought Kelly MacDonald had a kid in real life and so this season was sort of limited for her.
I think Al Capone is going to wipe his nose with his hand.
He already did that.
According to my stand-in friend she doesn't like living in NY and prefers to live in Scotland and London. He said she's pleasant but distant.
who is the actor playing opposite Jack Huston in the link r150 posted?
r169, the actor in the scene r150 posted is James Riordan.
I liked the season more in the beginning than I do now. I kind of feel the Pinkerton twist with Gillian was kind of out of left field.
Does this mean Gretchen Mol is leaving the show?
Obviously Rothstein and the other historically accurate characters are "safe" unless they simply fade in the background.
Harrow was underused this season. I don't know after the first two episodes I had high hopes but it has kind of lost me
I just hope nothing happens to Willie. I wouldn't mind Eli getting killed so Willie can take his place.
I still want Willie's big uncut cock in me fucking me missionary as I rub my hands through his curly hair.
Am I wrong for that?
Also for the record, I hope Chalky survives. I could tolerate Richard getting killed but wouldn't like it.
And where the hell did "Blue Tick" Daughter go? She just left? Just started walking in the middle of nowhere down a darkened road with NO fleshlight.
R123 - Leander Whitlock (Gillian's elderly, mutton-chop-sporting adviser) hired the Pinkertons. He said so before Gillian freaked out, "I owed Louis (the Commodore) something."
I know Gillian is beyond fucked-up, but between the writing and Gretchen Mol's performance, that character was really compelling and sympathetic this season. The fact that it was Leander who hired the Pinkertons was particularly cruel. I think last season it was implied that, after The Commodore was done with Gillian when she was kid, he passed her around to his friends, including Leander. This guy had a direct hand in making her what she is and this is what he does to her.
r158, I missed it too, probably because it never happened? Your comment seems to come out of he blue and no one answered it, so I assume it isn't true. Thanks for the misinformation, though.
[quote]Just started walking in the middle of nowhere down a darkened road with NO fleshlight.
It was a simpler time...
I bet Daughter was killed by the gunmen who tried to ambush Chalky. Remember, she just walked off a short time before they started shooting. So they either had to be approaching the house, or lying in wait out in the bushes.
I believe they probably slit her throat. Which gives Chalky another reason to kill Narcisse, and possibly aim for Nucky as well. Things are going to get very messy at the last episode.
There's the meeting Eli is setting up, and there's the whole Chalky storyline getting ready to collide with Narcisse and Nucky unless Nucky reaches out to him.
I predict that a lot of people will die, who are important to the story, so next season it makes sense to accelerate to storyline to 1928 as someone up thread suggested.
R99 I agree about Capone. The scene with his deaf kid last season was a highlight. Now he seems more cartoonish.
Some of you really called it about Ron Livingston (Piggly Wiggly). That was a nicely dramatic scene in a very low-key episode. Gretchen Mol will be missed by some of us - so beautiful and talented. And I guess we won't see Piggly much anymore either.
The other big drama moment was Eli shouting down his wife and humiliating her (ouch!). A major cringe moment
You do know there was once a real Mr. Pinkerton and he was Abraham Lincoln's spymaster.
I hate it, but at the same time love it, when characters get killed off, because it shows a real sense of jeopardy. I love me some Chaulky, but if he bites it. I'm okay, however I do want that pig Narcisse to get his.
If they take Richard out, it will be a disappointment and turn me completely off.
The Gillian storyline was compelling this year but the whole arrest scenario seemed a bit shark jumping and as others have said, a stretch. There would have been lots of acting involved by the Pinkertons which I'm not sure they would have naturally resorted to. It wouldn't have been considered "solid" detective work or particularly 'manly'... at least that's what I'm assuming based on the period.
Wasn't there another way to have caught her? It just seemed very soap opera'ish.
As long as Nucky, Chalky and Richard survive, I'm good.
[quote] Wasn't there another way to have caught her? It just seemed very soap opera'ish.
I agree, and when the prior poster who claimed to have inside knowledge of the show had said that the guy was an undercover detective, I was hoping he was just an attention-seeking troll making shit up. Really a silly contrivance.
R75, at least two prior posters have mentioned Mickey being killed, so that is why it keeps being mentioned.
[quote]I bet Daughter was killed by the gunmen who tried to ambush Chalky
Except that when Oscar yelled out "What do you want?" their answer was "The Girl!" They wouldn't have asked for her if they had just just killed her.
Are you sure that's what they said? I didn't hear that. Of course she still could've been shot during the gunfight. Maybe Chalky will find her dead or wounded. Wounded would be good. The Soap opera continues.
What does it say about a show where most viewers don't know what is going on unless they hear it from someone who works on the set?
[quote]I know Gillian is beyond fucked-up, but between the writing and Gretchen Mol's performance, that character was really compelling and sympathetic this season.
I kept waiting for her to kill again... never found her sympathetic once... I was sure she was always coiled to strike but she never did. Still, agree entirely the writing and acting were terrific.
Gretchen Mol is awesome in that performance. I like the snake analogy. Yes. She is very unpredictable and manic. She plays Gillian very well. They can't get rid of her!
Except, like Margaret now, what does she really do? The women in this show, save the healthy figured Daughter, are quite isolated.
I Gretchen reminds me of Cathy Ames in East of Eden. In fact she'd be perfect. Too bad they're doing a remake with Jennifer Lawrence of all people as Cathy. Awful choice. I have nothing against Jennifer, but she is totally unsuited for that role.
Ever since Eddie died, Nucky seems distracted. Like he's in a fog. He needs to wake up. I think he blames Chalky for the problem of valentine Narcisse, but Narcisse would've found his way to Atlantic City without the nightclub and without Chalky.
If Daughter is dead, Narcisse will blame Chalky and he may seek vengeance on Chalky's kids. Lord I pray.
"Inside the Episode" appears on HBO's website after each Sunday night episode. The writers or producers discuss the episode and give insights into what happened and why.
It seems that Blue Tick Daughter is just gone. Their midnight scene where they say at daybreak they go was a recognition by both that the affair was over.
I think Eli gets killed. Mafia rule #1 - If you become a rat, you swim with the fishies. Just ask Big Pussy.
I've always thought Eli was crazy handsome in certain scenes... then, when they show him really up close, he looks much older.
I went to IMDB to look him up and damn he's beautiful. That main shot is of course a headshot but still, he's beautiful and unrecognizable from that shot to his being made-up as Eli.
Eli has become the most complex character of the series, especially this season. I suppose he'll be knocked off; Nucky can't redeem him twice after all and Eli has already betrayed his brother.
Oddly, as great as Gretchen Mol is, I could totally do without her or that storyline because it seems to be going nowhere at this point. I WOULD like to see more of Richard. He seems to have a soul, but he's always capable of being a hired killer. Seeing that play out and his conflict with it could be interesting.
I love Chalky. Don't take him away!
FYI - Watched an episode of Family Guy this weekend in which they showed a photo of Steve Buscemi... to which 'Lois' replied: "God, he looks like a human cigarette." LOL!
I can't imagine them killing Eli. I hope Eli will end up telling Nucky what's going on, and they'll kill Knox. From the way he treats him, I don't think Hoover will miss him.
The main thing is, Chalky and Nucky have to make peace. You also have to factor in Masaria. He's Narcisse's partner in the heroin trade. Narcisse is his prime distributor. So if Narcisse is killed, how does that sit with Masaria.
There's a strong case for killing off Eli, but It's a very predictable. Somehow I don't think that's how it goes down. I have to wonder though, how in the world will the writers make it authentic, and real, for Eli to continue to live, if he ends up betraying Nucky. I think Eli ends up killing Knox.
Knox has insinuated himself into Nucky's world and created serious trouble. Nucky may not be aware of his role in Eddie's death,yet, but I bet Knox makes an off handed comment to either Eli or Nucky, verifying it.
What I'd really love, is for Nucky to never really confirm the depth of Eli's betrayal, and Eli just guns Knox down and tells Nucky "he came after my family. I had to."
None of us could have imagined that they would actually kill off Jimmy but they did.
Rats, if discovered, get killed in the Mafia. Period. Nucky has already figured out that Eli is the "skunk in the basement."
The only way Eli survives is if he kills Knox before this mess gets worse. If they loosely follow history in this, J. Edgar Hoover, didn't focus on the mafia until about a decade later. In the 20's, Hoover focused on bank robbers. So Knox "disappearing" might not be a big deal to Hoover.
I'll miss Gaston Means. They followed history with him being arrested for pergery. If next season picks up a few years down the road, Means may be back. He only served two or three years for the pergery. He got out to swindle some more before finally being put away for good in the mid 1930s. Then, Gaston Means dies in prison.
Someone needs open vowel sergery.
I'm looking forward to the spin-off series, WILLIE GETS NAKED.
Here,love, try this: PERJURY.
R197, I fear you are too subtle.
Oh I thought Jimmy's days were numbered, I just didn't think Nucky would be so directly, personally involved. Eli has to kill Knox. That's the only way he can get out of this mess. The Valentin Narcisse problem is a little more complicated.
I'm "oh dearing" myself for the pergery/perjury typo.
Embarrassed as I type.
My stand-in friend told me he heard that next season might actually take place in the 1930s. By doing that Gillian could be released from prison by that point and we'd see Al Capone in his heyday. And Tommy Darmody along with the Schroder kids would be teenagers. He also said that Eli will definitely be there until the end. Michael Pitt's on set behavior was the sole reason for Jimmy's demise. The actor who plays Eli (Shea Wigham) is highly professional and Terrence Winter and his writing team won't kill him off before the series finale. And don't be surprised if Paz de la Huerta returns as Lucy next season, too. De la Huerta's batshit crazy behavior has apparently simmered down now to the point where they'd consider bringing her back.
If Eli gets to live, why the hell am I swimming with the fishes?
R202, I've followed your posts before and realize now that you and your "on set friend" are completely full of shit.
If me and my stand-in are so full of shit, R204, then did I get it wrong when early in this thread I revealed the spoiler that the Ron Livingston character was there the whole time to nail Gillian for murdering Roger?
I don't think you're full of shit, R205. Keep coming with the insider stuff. I do hope you're wrong about them starting the new season in the 30's. Yes, BE's about Atlantic City, and Nucky, and how he interacts with all these famous, outside forces, and the changes going on in Atlantic City.
But the assassination of Rothstein and Masaria, the ascendancy of Capone, Luciano, and Lansky, can't be stuff they deal with retrospectively. Those developments were really big deals, that had a lasting impact.
I wonder if the series will end when Prohibition ends. If I were looking at a good place to wrap this saga, that's good place to end it. After that the graft continued, the corruption continued, but eventually, the man Nucky's character is based on goes to jail. Luciano, Lanksy, and even Capone die of old age, with Capone doing time in Prison for tax evasion courtesy of Elliot Ness.
I don't think the real Nucky was in prison for long but he probably lost all his money.
Did the real Nucky have a nephew as hot as Willie?
They can't not show what happens in 1928. That's when Rothstein gets killed. Shortly after, Masaria. Then Luciano and Lanksy start to consolidate power.
I've only caught this show a time or two, who is the the guy who wears the mask over his face all the time and goes around shooting everybody?
Agree with r209 Historically, 1928 is an important year for the shows themes and characters it would be a mistake to skip over it.
I don't know if I am in the minority believing that Season 4 opened with a fantastic first episode that hinted and promised all sorts of exciting things and then failed to deliver on them as the season progressed.
I hope the writers take advantage of the rich events of 28 to give the show the shot in the arm I thought it was getting after watching New York Sour, first ep of this season.
He is Angelica Huston's nephew R210.
R206, R209 and R211, my stand-in friend said that what he's heard is that next season (its last) will be considerably shortened. It could even be shortened to as few as 8 episodes compared to the usual 13. There's no way they can cover all the events you have referenced. With a significant time jump to the 1930s the show can telescope the core characters' storylines-enough time will have passed for Margaret to somehow return to Nucky, a teen Tommy can seek revenge for Harrow, Gillian could be released from prison, Eli could be in a very different status, etc. And we'd finally witness Capone at full throttle. It sounds like a smart move on their part.
Capone goes to jail in 1931. Tommy won't be a teenager yet.
The season finale leaves too many open ends for them to jump to the 1930s (though they may, it would just make for bad plot).
Why have Narcisse become an informant for the feds? Eli's career in Chicago should be explored. The Florida land Boom and Bust(Nuckie just bought a lot of land there) and Willie's future. Also with Margaret working at a stock brokers, it would be a waste to skip over the crash.
Too bad that Harrow was killed off. He was one of the few remaining interesting characters along with jail bound Gillian.
Not sure I can tough out another season of both the hammy, scene chewing "Dr Narcisse" and the bad actor who does the bad Al Capone shtick.
Seriously, not sure I will do an entire next season if these two keep getting 70% of the screen time. Maybe the show is nearing it's end.?.
Great interview with Jack Huston on Richard's death.
[quote]What one realizes about tragic characters is the moment they get everything, that's the moment they die. When everything you've ever wanted happens for you, that's when everything starts to go wrong. It's inevitably going to be the end. And he had an honorable death. Richard knew he wasn't going to come back from this. Before Jimmy went to his death, he goes, "This is something I have to do." He chose to die. And I think Richard was doing the same thing. He knew he was going to his death.
I think the finale fizzled a bit. The build-up episodes made it look like it was going to be a classic, instead it turned out fairly mediocre. And I personally was getting sick of half-face, sure glad it wasn't Chalky instead. And this season had some incredibly boring episodes. I'll watch season 5, but it's not like I'm dying to. A year away? Who cares.
[quote]My stand-in friend told me he heard that next season might actually take place in the 1930s. By doing that Gillian could be released from prison by that point and we'd see Al Capone in his heyday.
Al Capone didn't have much "heyday" after 1930, unless you want to count his heyday shank-dodging in Alcatraz. Besides, jumping into the '30s next season would mean that the show would have to skip over Arnold Rothstein's downfall and 1928 murder, as well as Capone's war with Bugs Moran, which came to a head with the St Valentine's Day Massacre in 1929. And it's unlikely that Gillian will ever get out of prison, but if she does, it won't be in the early 30s. Or late 30s, for that matter.
The next (and final) season will lead up to in 1929, to take advantage of the market crash.
[quote]If me and my stand-in are so full of shit, [R204], then did I get it wrong when early in this thread I revealed the spoiler that the Ron Livingston character was there the whole time to nail Gillian for murdering Roger?
That was no spoiler; people started making that speculation within his first two episodes.
I can't find it now but over lunch at work I read Gillian is back for season 5... not quite sure how but that's what I read.
I missed part of Hoover's interview/interrogation/coercion of Narcise. Did he threaten to charge him with Knox's/Tolliver's murder? What was that about?
Yes, R223. He basically said don't do as I say and I'll frame you and you're fucked.
The thing that has me intrigued is how gleeful and giddy Rothstein looked when he was introducing Margaret to her new place. It was odd.
I'm expecting Season 5 to lead up to the Crash of 1929 (if it's an abbreviated season) or begin with the Crash, showing the characters dealing with it in various ways.
Very sorry to see Richard Harrow go. But it was a beautifully done finish for him (and we got to see his fully handsome face). Let's hope Gillian somehow stays in the show too. I'm a fan of Jeffry Wright and his "Dr Narcisse"..expect a lot more from him in Season 5
As I see it, 1928 is a major transitional year with the death of Rothstein, and the ascendance of Capone now that Torrio's out. The Capone storyline is going to be fairly important, because Eli is in Chicago.
Then you have The Crash of 1929, and the gradual settling in of The Great Depression. This has to affect all the principal characters, since Atlantic City was a resort playground.
In 1931, Massaria is assassinated, 1932 Roosevelt is elected, and Repeal of Prohibition is a plank in the Democratic platform. By the end of 1933, Prohibition is over. So hopefully, the next season will start in 1928.
I don't think Narcisse will be a regular. He may make two or three appearances, but you know the reckoning between him and Chalky was merely postponed, not cancelled, so there's a storyline there.
I have to wonder if Margaret will make a few appearances next year. At least until Rothstein's murder. Seems to me they've left so many loose ends, they can hardly introduce a new character like a Gyp Rossetti this time.
I predict they'll flesh out and give more prominence to characters we've already met. Personally I want to see more of Lanksy, Luciano and Rothstein next year. I love Van Alden.He and Capone are almost comic relief right now. I think that will change next year.
All good ideas, R227, but my stand-in friend insists he heard Terence Winter say on set at video village that next season will only be 8 episodes and will probably be set in the 1930s so core characters like Gillian can remain viable. She can't in a prison storyline. Enough time has to pass so that perhaps it's plausible that a corrupt judge could set her free. Massaria and even Rothstein aren't fundamentally core characters. If there are only 8 episodes the focus will have to be on Nucky, Eli, Gillian, Van Alden, Margaret, Luciano and Capone.
Capone is over by the 1930s, r228.
I just want to be clear on what the writers are telling me happened here. So let me get this straight.
Leander Whitlock, the elderly, muttonchopped attorney and former friend of the Commodore, contacted the Pinkerton Detective Agency to investigate the murder of Roger McAllister and the misidentification of his body as that of Jimmy Darmody, resulting in Gillian Darmody fraudulently inheriting the Commodore's estate. Leander did this out of loyalty to his old friend Louis, the Commodore... Okay. I'm with you, Boardwalk writers.
Now let's continue this storyline.
So... their strategy was basically this: Introduce a love interest into Gillian's life, a grocery store executive, who develops a months-long romance with her, presumably billing Leander for all of these hours.
Okay, a tad convoluted, but I'm game.
So the Pinkerton detective, under the guise of Roy Phillips, Piggly Wiggly executive extraordinaire, decides to court Gillian and win her affection like this: First, pretend to be interested in buying the house, then, asking her to pretend to be his wife to impress a coworker, then helping her detox from heroin, then continues the ruse for weeks or months on end by getting her to fall in love with him, then by pretending to propose marriage, then by asking her to move away with him, then pretends to murder the former coworker, who is actually a fellow detective, and then claims he should confess to the police.
And all of this, this month-long saga, was all part of an elaborate plan to make Gillian, at that precise moment, confess her own crimes regarding her son's death to him. How could they possibly think that would work?
And the confession they were banking on was so well executed and planned - that the other detectives decided to hide just beneath the staircase - and Leander Whitlock hid just above the staircase - lying silently in wait, inside Gillian's own house, so that they could emerge at that precise moment, busting Gillian in person - just to explain to her and the omniscient watching audience - that this was their plan all along, who they were, and why this all happened, just the way it did.
Um, does anyone else think this plot twist was a tad... contrived? Or is it just me? I preferred the theory that he was a closeted homosexual using Gillian as a beard.
What good is her confession without multiple impartial witnesses? This is before recording equipment could be covertly used. Having her confess that day on the boardwalk or over dinner would be useless in court.
I guess my biggest hang-up isn't with the months-long romantic con game - but rather the bust itself.
Roy says, "Did you get all that?" and all the detectives emerge right on cue. And Whitlock appears atop the stairs. It was like the end of a Scooby Doo episode, where the villain is unmasked, the entire plot is explained to the camera, and the villain is dragged away, cursing the "meddling kids."
Just imagine - what if she hadn't confessed right at that moment?
"Roy, don't confess to the police! There's something I have to tell you about my son's death. But first, let me walk downstairs for like 3 feet and... wait, who are all these men in my house? And why is Whitlock here? Hey wait, isn't that the guy you just shot?"
Cover blown, whole thing crashes. Seems like a bizarre gamble that she would confess right on cue like that. The whole concept really stretched the believability for me. And it's a shame the Gillian Darmody storyline ended like that. It had so much potential. They built this villainous character up for so long. Incestuous, murderous, cruel, manipulative, controlling, the audience couldn't wait to see her crash - then they humanize her with a heroin addiction, make you feel sympathetic for her, then end her story with this bizarre twist. It's just not good writing for me, I'm sorry.
I've really enjoyed this season. All slow burn and none of that over-the-top Gyp Rossetti crap.
But I gotta give it to you on the Gillian storyline. Contrived to the point where it wouldn't pass muster on L&O. I'm happy she's in jail and I'm just gonna try to forget how she got there.
The latest from my stand-in friend is that HBO is considering a spin-off series focusing on Capone and his reign of terror. They are also possibly shooting two 8 episode seasons from late March until Christmas with a month-long break in between. This is the same thing that Mad Men is doing.
And my stand-in insists that all department heads have been told that there will be a significant time jump, most likely to 1930 or 1931. This is necessary for storyline purposes because the Depression would be in full swing, Gillian could be released from prison (from a technicality involving a corrupt judge), Dr. Narcisse would have served his abbreviated term, Willie will be 6 years older and played by an older actor (most likely British or Australian, of course) and Tommy will be a young teen out to avenge Harrow's death.
I missed the last three or four episodes...who killed Harrow?
He killed himself after accidentally killing Chalky's daughter. She got in his crosshairs as he was attempting to kill Narcisse.
Is Chalky still on the show?
Harrow didn't kill himself, he was shot in the gun fight after he accidentally shot Chalky's daughter. He went to the ocean and died of his wounds.
Chalky's still there, defeated, but still on the show.
A time jump to 1930 or 1931 would benefit the Margaret/Nucky storyline, too, because it's inevitable that she be pulled one more time into his orbit for the final go-round. She would be particularly hurt by the crash, having worked for a brokerage firm. Her 5 year rent-free apartment deal would evaporate following Rothstein's death. She'd be on her knees. And she'd find her way back to Nucky as a last resort.
R237, You're right. I completely misread that ending. When I saw his fallen mask I assumed it was mimicking the scene seasons earlier when he took off his mask as he contemplated suicide.
Are they going to skip the St. Valentines Day massacre and the Capone link?
Sure they could, R241. Wouldn't that be a tad obvious? It could also be in the Capone spin-off if it happens.
Another plot benefitting from a time jump would be Clayton getting out of prison and out to settle the score with a now adult Willie for inadvertantly getting him stitched up for Henry's death.
Just rewatched the fantastic season finale and it seems absolutely set up for a significant flash forward.
Given the cartoonish way this show exaggerates the violence, they'll kill 700 mobsters on St. valentine's Day instead of seven.
Frankly, gangsters are always killing without remorse...it was that way in the 20s and now.
Next season, every character gets shot in the face, and everyone will say the show is brilliant.
Having sat through all of season 4 [on Sky Atlantic in the UK] I find myself on the whole a bit underwhelmed.
I thought the first installment of series 4 [New York City Sour] was fucking brilliant but then it flagged a bit and sagged into improbability.
For me, perhaps not being American, I don't quite believe the whole Pinkerton thing with Gillian. The story brought to mind something of a false air to it. Dunno, might have been that it was so shocking and cruel, but it seemed like they had another ending in mind and changed lanes at the last minute.
Richard Harrow, my fave character, comes to an end but he was the only character this go round who had a clear story arc. He started out popping a dad pleading for his life and gained a conscience in the bargain. Ended the series and his life killing the innocent with Maybelle and the guilt did him in. Stunning last images of him.
All and all, the first episode, bang on best of the best then..snoooze.
DL'rs in America and parts unknown agree?
Just for colour, here is my fave scene from series 4.
agree with r246, the Gillian storyline ended on a false note with the Pinkerton.
However, R246, you seem to be mistaken believing Harrow took his own life he was fatally shot in the Onyx Club and died from that wound.
kick ass scene @ r146. Great acting and direction. The Tim Van Patten episodes are always the best BE episodes.
actually, the scene @r246 was directed by Martin Scorsese but I agree it is exceptionally acted and directed even by Boardwalk Empire's usually high standard.
It does remind me of the scene from "No Country for Old Men" with Woody Harrelson.
anyone know what the year is for season 5 and do they have a short season or regular number of episodes?
Hello Praeline Kale @249
These British actors get away with MURDER! How come they can do American accents and you wrote mean things about my accents and my acting.
Btw, I am about to collect my zillionth Oscar. What are you up to?
step of M, this thread wasn't even remotely about you.
According to my friend who works in the business, they are doing very little casting at the moment. My friend says in late January Early Feb they normally start having sessions for the first episode.
This is how people get the first idea of what the season will be, from the agency casting notices that are supposed to be confidential but so many people see them.
Last season there were several roles being cast, this season only a few wonder what that indicates