The "free," self-serving cunt yet trapped cunt, Edward Snowden grocery shopping & being oblivious somewhere in Russia
A Russian news website published a photograph today that it claims is the first to show US intelligence leaker Edward Snowden since he emerged from a Moscow airport in August.
In the blurry image published by Life News, a casually dressed man sporting a goatee with sunglasses perched on his head is pictured pushing a supermarket trolley full of groceries across a road.
A car with partly legible Russian plates and a crossing sign identify the scene as in Russia.
'The photograph was taken in Moscow,' said Life News, which is known for its close ties to the Kremlin and security services.
There has been no reported sighting of Snowden since he walked out of Moscow's Sheremetyevo airport on August 1 after obtaining temporary asylum in Russia despite protests from Washington.
The 30-year-old former CIA contractor is wanted by the United States after revealing details of massive surveillance by the National Security Agency to the media.
Snowden's Russian lawyer Anatoly Kucherena has said he is living in a secret location in fear of being tracked down by US law enforcers.
Life News published video extracts from an interview with Kremlin-friendly Kucherena, who refused to confirm that Snowden is living in Moscow.
'Let's take as a starting point that on the photograph that came into your possession you can't see the region or anything, only numbers (on a car number plate),' he said.
The photograph, if genuine, also does not show the bodyguards who Kucherena says accompany Snowden.
It was not clear when the photograph was taken, however it is likely to be several weeks old as it is now autumn in Russia and the picture shows trees covered with green leaves.
Life News, which is the online wing of popular tabloid Tvoi Den, wrote on a Russian social networking page that it paid 100,000 rubles (about $3,000) for the photograph submitted via its website.
Kucherena last month told Itogi weekly magazine that Snowden manages to walk around in disguise.
'He would walk past you and you wouldn't recognise him,' he told Itogi. 'It's a question of clothes and small alterations to his appearance... He really does walk freely around on the streets.'
Life News pointed out that the man resembling Snowden did not seem to be economising on his supermarket shop, with a trolley containing at least half a dozen bags - despite claims by Kucherena that the American is running out of money.
'As you can see the former special services employee has picked up a full trolley of food according to American tradition. That clearly cost more than one thousand rubles,' it wrote.
Kucherena told the website that '(Snowden) is living in quite a poor way as he has practically no money'.
The photograph appears to show Snowden breaking Russian law by jaywalking, Life News added, an offence for which he could be fined.
Life News, known for eye-catching scoops, in August published photographs showing Snowden walking out of Sheremetyevo airport with a huge grin on his face.
None of the journalists keeping watch at the airport spotted him at the time and it was not clear how the website obtained the photographs.
Well, if I could edit that subject line, you know I would!
he should be forced to give up hole to russian soldiers or something
He looks quite gay in those pics. I wonder if he's doing a lot of sexual favors for Putin to be able to stay in the country?
I don't really have a problem with Snowden living comfortably in Russia. It isn't like he told then anything they didn't already know. If anything, they were probably disappointed.
Happy for him. We owe him a lot.
He has more guts than the miserable cur OP ever will have.
It's so weird that America's governments have become so corrupted by power that we have to rely on a freedom-hating dictator to supply him with a modicum of justice.
It's because our government is not for the people by the people. It's corrupted by greed and a value system that is only based on money. Snowden has shown us we are not freedom loving ourselves.
Sure, r8, because Snowden has so much freedom on his new adopted homeland. Oh, and we just know that Russia doesn't monitor its citizens communications or spy on foreign governments.
A bit hypocritical of this so-called hero who fled his country because it was supposedly going to harm him for "speaking out" seeking refuge in a country where he's not allowed to speak at all.
"He really does walk freely around on the streets."
Yeah, I'm sure he doesn't have anyone from the Russian secret service following him around.
I'm not so sure the guy in the pic actually is Snowden (unless he had his mole removed).
When will you get angry R9 at what is going on in this country? Snowden did something that has exposed the mindset of the state and how it looks at us. And how it has treated him and others who tell the truth? And all you are capable of is good old American jingoism?
Snowden is an American here.
Snowden is a hero, OP on the other had is an ignorant cunt hiding behind computer screen. Without Snowden, people would never know the US constitution, the greatest asset of the country, has been repeatedly raped by the government.
No, R11, he is an American there by his own actions.
R10, I'm actually not "capable of good old American jingoism" because I'm not even American. I do know a little about your constitution and to claim it is being "raped" as r12 does is nonsense.
What I was trying to expose is the hypocrisy of Snowden and those who proclaim him a "hero". You think the way in which the state in America views its citizens is bad? Well, what do you make of the way the Russian state views its citizens? If Snowden really cared about the way in which the state treats its citizens he would not have run off to parts of China and then Russia in order to "escape" from the supposed evil repercussion of the American state.
All Snowden and other idiots like Assange and Greenwald and the idiots at the Guardian are interested in doing is bashing the US because it makes them seem cool. They have absolutely no interest in informing us of the monitoring and intelligence gathering practices of any countries other than the US and UK. If they did then they would be rushing to expose the espionage activities of Russia, with a former KGB head as its president. They'd be wanting to reveal all the limits on internet use on Chinese citizens and how their state monitors their them. They'd be telling us of the treatment of journalists and opposition politicians in all those Latin American countries that love to hate America.
But, instead, as part of their little boy US-bashing, they hugely inflate their "revelations" and make it sound as though they are exposing some evil that is unheard of in the history of humanity, which only the US practices. Really? My mobile phone bill shows more such information on me than anything the US or my government has. Seriously, we're meant to believe that David Miranda didn't know what he was carrying? He's the world's greatest potential drug mule then!
This is the one thing Snowden supporters never bother to explain: why is Snowden in Russia? Why don't we ever hear anything more from him now that he is in Russia?
He did us a favor. The NSA is TFOOC.
I do worry about him, and the reality of how he is being treated. It might be reassuring to see him doing something normal like buying groceries, but it could be staged, and his reality might be vastly different from the exile many of us imagine.
He's an awful human being.
True heroes and revolutionaries take on the government then stand their ground. He would have been a hero to millions had he stayed here at home and faced the music.
But, he ran away like a little bitch. AND he ran to rogue countries who are not friends of the U.S.
Why didn't he go to the U.K. or even France who would have certainly allowed him to stay?
He was a fucking spy, not a hero. He did this for no one else but himself and I hope he pays a heavy price for the rest of his miserable fucking life.
Only Freepers are anti-whistleblowers. Liberals would be praising him if Bush was in office.
A libertarian in Putin's Russia. he's being punished enough.
I hope Snowden is able to help improve the rights of Russians, especially the LGBQ community. Anyone know if he has a job?
If he's gay, he'd better watch his ass in Russia. Literally. The govt has pretty much issued a license to kill.
Drop dead, R18. You have no idea what you're talking about, and, nor to whom you are speaking.
The US government was not going to murder the man, or cause a tragic "accident." This was too high profile for cloak and dagger CIA drama. Snowden, as other posters have stated (and who you conveniently ignore) should have stood his ground and fought on American soil, not run and whine like a spoiled brat.
Snowden made my Obammy look bad. I hates him.
What I find funniest about this is that Snowden's every move, every key stroke, and every fart are being monitored. I have a feeling the Russians don't know what to make of him and are trying hard to find out.
"I'm not so sure the guy in the pic actually is Snowden (unless he had his mole removed)."
If you look closely, which I unfortunately did, that disturbing, disgusting mole is still there apparently.
It's surreal to see gays stating what a hero this guy is for running away and giving U.S. secrets to an even more oppressive country that is working hard to have gays completely oppressed.
So R26 are we better of knowing the abuses of our country or not? You would be licking his shitter until you got to his small intestines if it were Bush in office.
Did he return the shopping cart?
Thank you OP for this thread! I can't stand Snowden/Greenwald.
[quote] because Snowden has so much freedom on his new adopted homeland.
r9, he has more freedom in Russia right now than he ever will in America.
Could you please explain how that works for him in Russia, R30?
r31, can you please explain how it not works for him in Russia?
That doesn't look like Snowden in that photo.
Snowden didn't give away State secrets. The spying the US terrorizes its people and the rest of the world with is for economic reasons, again for Wall Street.
I hope he enjoys the bed he made for himself.
He has no income, is the Russian government paying for his apartment, expenses or is the traitor's family here in the states supporting him. When this story broke, some website had photos of him when he did some "artistic posing" fully clothed. I believe he had intentions of becoming a male model. I wonder if the Russian government is supplying him with female or male companionship. Nix the male companionship since that is a crime in Putin's Russia.
R36, if I recall, according to the Wikileaks attorney assisting him, he was offered a programming or technology job of some sort in Russia.
traitor? traitor to what? I'm glad he got away, smarter than Manning. that's the way to do it.
I think he's a hero.
Manning's problem was that he didn't wait until he got out of the Army to divulge what he knew.
Apparently one of Manning's many problems.
yes he's a hero alright, running to much more oppressive countries than the US. How ironic he seeks refuge in a country that has horrible human rights and in which the government does all kinds of shit to its people.
You idiots who call him a hero don't understand the meaning of the word.
Would you prefer he would have stayed here and been imprisoned for 35 years like Bradley Manning, OP? Would that be the only way he could prove to you that he's not self serving?
r41, where would you like him to seek refuge? Do you think he had a wide variety of choices where he could go to evade the hypocritical reach of American law?
R43 a country that has much better human rights than fucking Russia. He's a hypocrite and the OP is right about him being self-serving.
If he is a hero, why Russia? Why not flee to Scandinavia..Sweden has been a haven for many.
Anyone that is under the impression that only the US spies is a bit delusional. Every country in the world engages in spying..remember the Profumo case in England, involving female "escorts"..the woman also had dealings with the Russians.
Fuck you, OP, you fascist, freeper piece of shit.
You're not fit to lick Snowden's used toilet paper.
Why don't you do it? He's done enough .
I wish all libertarians would leave the US and go live in Russia.
[quote] Would you prefer he would have stayed here and been imprisoned for 35 years like Bradley Manning,
Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
Daniel Ellsberg was willing to go to prison.
When he was in Hong Kong, Snowden put himself up for sale. He went to Russia because Russia offered the higher price for all they can get out of him. Sweden wasn't interested in paying for his traitoring ass. Your hero boy didn't go to a "free" country because freedom wasn't really the issue, money was.
He's doing what he should do
It's kind of cute that some people here think Snowden has more freedom in Russia, yet can't explain it.
Edward Snowden's spoo tastes like crème Chantilly, aromatised with slight lacings of vanilla.
R45: it's not like Snowden got to choose a country like he would for a vacation. This is serious business. Scandinavia? Like where they are working on trumped up rape charges to deliver Assange to the US?
I don't suppose the morons asking 'why'd he go to Russia if he cares so much about freedom' (yes, that's you r9/r14) have given any thought to the fact Snowden applied for asylum in several countries and was rejected by almost all of them (doubtless because none of them had the nerve to piss off the US). He shed light on a massive and illegal surveillance program run by our government. I wouldn't call him a hero but I think he did a huge service to the American people. Whistleblowers who provide evidence of government acting illegally should not be subjected to reprisals by that government.
It is pretty obvious that OP doesn't read any of the papers.
We're aware that no other country wants him, r55, but Snowden had planned to go to Russia from the start and had apparently booked a ticket there even before he made his great "revelations".
The fact Snowden was refused "asylum" in the countries he applied to shows what a deluded fool he is. Did he really think that Norway or Germany or Iceland or wherever he wanted to go were going to welcome him with open arms? He's broken the law in his own country and has attempted to escape the justice system. The US justice system and the charges against Snowden are not considered unreasonable by any other country and certainly not grounds to give Snowden asylum. The reason Snowden has not been granted asylum by other countries is because HE IS NOT ELIGIBLE FOR ASYLUM.
Russia has only given him asylum for one year because it likes to poke the US in the eye - but Putin himself said Snowden should shut up if he wants to stay in Russia. And it seems Snowden, the great, brave hero, has agreed to be silent.
Moreover, no government would accept one of their own citizens or employees doing what he did.
This nonsense about "American pressure" is bull. Really? Countries oppose the US on all sorts of issues all the time, even western countries - witness the opposition to US strikes against Syria, even the British parliament voted against it.
Oh, and Venezuela and Bolivia have offered him asylum. Why doesn't he go there?
[quote]It's kind of cute that some people here think Snowden has more freedom in Russia, yet can't explain it.
Deserves to be pointed out again.
"Why doesn't he go there?"
The better question is why did you come here, freeper troll?
Your rants won't affect Snowden's life or fate in the least.
Your rants won't tarnish his image, in the slightest way, in the eyes of those who respect whistleblowers.
Your rants won't lessen in any way the crimes and assorted misdeeds of our government.
I guess you're just here to stir up shit.
He took America's secrets to Russia.
The guy is a LOSER.
Great distraction strategy, r59. Except we can see right through you.
This is a thread that is critical of Snowden. Its subject heading is "The "free," self-serving cunt yet trapped cunt, Edward Snowden grocery shopping & being oblivious somewhere in Russia". I am here because I am critical of Snowden. Why the fuck are you here? To stir up shit?
If you want to be here on this explicitly anti-Snowden thread, and since you find the question why is Snowden in Russia so offensive, then at least try answering this one:
Venezuela and Bolivia offered Snowden asylum, so why doesn't he go to those countries?
If you can't answer the question then please just go away.
I don't understand why several posters have drawn a connection between exposing US abuses and the government practices of wherever he has fled.
Are you assuming that his flight is a statement that Russian surveillance practices are more ethical than US surveillance practices?
Where is this assumption coming from?
Would you expect that someone who wants to fight poverty should find the wealthiest place in the world to live?
Thank you for admitting you are just here to troll.
[quote]Venezuela and Bolivia offered Snowden asylum, so why doesn't he go to those countries?
It's not up to me to reply to your assertions. You made the claim, you back it up.
If I were to guess I'd say he doesn't have any assurance of a.) safe passage or b.) permanent asylum in either of those countries.
But I have no doubt you have links demonstrating that both countries have extended offers of safe passage and permanent asylum.
However, in the end, it doesn't really matter. The freepers won't stop whining until he's behind bars which means we're going to have to listen to their sour grapes for decades to come.
Snowden is a criminal. Period. I cannot wait for a bullet to pierce his skull and to end his miserable life.
Tick, tick, tick....
"Venezuela and Bolivia have offered him asylum"
I am not a Snowden supporter by an means, but the reason he cannot reach those countries is related to logistics. He cannot travel there via commercial flights given his lack of valid documentation, and private planes that could be hired by his supporters do not have the capacity to fly the distances required while avoiding the airspace of nations that would not allow such a flight to cross their airspace. The range of the private plane that has the longest range could possibly make it to Venezuela or nearby without refueling via the shortest feasible route, i.e., avoiding airspace of nations that wouldn't allow the flight. However, it is risky and may result in the death of all those on board.
At link, r63, where Bolivia and Venezeula offer asylum to Snowden. And Nicaragua too! Although, it's astonishingly surprising that, as a Snowden fan, you are unaware of this major fact. You're not very informed, are you? (Which is probably why you're a Snowden fan.) Interestingly, Ecuador said they would not offer Snowden asylum.
Notice that the Bolivian, Venezeualan and Nicaraguan presidents say they would offer asylum if he asks for it - meaning that Snowden didn't actually want to go to those countries. So, the only countries willing to offer him asylum are countries that even he doesn't want to go to!
Really, r65? He can go from Russia, directly over the Middle East, over Africa and easily into South America. Or he could go over Russia, over China and directly south down to Latin America.
R62, we are pointing out the hypocrisy of Snowden and his friends (Greenwald, Assange, the Guardian). Have you ever heard them protest about abuses of freedom of speech, state monitoring, or curtailments on journalistic practises in any country other than the US or UK? Do you think they are interested in bashing any country other than the US?
But, if Snowden is such a hero, then why does he find it so hard to find anywhere to offer him asylum? Why does no country want him? Perhaps it's because he isn't actually eligible for asylum: asylum is granted for when someone will be unfairly persecuted in their home country. No country in the world believes that Snowden will be unfairly persecuted in the USA and every country in the world would file charges against one of their own citizens if they had acted as Snowden has.
Snowden was so delusional: he thought he was being a great hero who was going to bring the US government crashing down and be welcomed with open arms in Norway. Norway, Iceland, wherever have absolutely no interest in having Snowden on their territory.
Snowden had such belief in his own "greatness" that he didn't even stop to think that maybe what he did was really not that significant and that no country would want him. That he wasn't able to evaluate the situation properly only underlines what an idiot he is.
Oh, and r59, you do realise that actual freepers are Snowden lovers? Like Snowden, the Ron Paul supporter, freepers hate government and think it's an enemy that is out to oppress them. Freepers want their "republic" to be "free" of the state.
At freerepublic.com they have the same opinion as you and think Snowden's a hero.
Greenwald is such a piece of shit. He encourages Snowden to commit what he actually acknowledges is legally an act of treason yet he doesn't want to do the same thing himself so he can still enter America.
Oh, and I bet Dilma Roussef, the president of Brazil, wishes Glenn Greenwald had never entered her country. Dilma has gone off on an anti-US rant, cancelled her state trip to the US, wants to build servers outside of the US and forces Google, etc. to store all their data in Brazil. Yet, even she would never offer Snowden asylum. Now Greenwald is trying to play games with them all, do trade offs and thinks he can be the puppet master pulling the strings of presidents and negotiating international agreements. What a dick!
See the article below.
Greenwald wants Brazil to give Snowden asylum - Americas - Al Jazeera English
The US journalist who broke the first stories about the US National Security Agency's (NSA) global spying programme has asked Brazilian senators to grant asylum to NSA leaker Edward Snowden.
Glenn Greenwald spoke on Wednesday to senators investigating reports about US, British and Canadian spying on Latin America's largest nation.
When the senators pushed him to provide the Brazilian government access to the leaked documents at his disposal, Greenwald balked and said there should always be strict separation between governments and journalists.
Greenwald's partner, David Miranda, also appearing before the senators, added that the documents would not be given to the Brazilian government because it would be an "act of treason" that could prevent Greenwald from ever entering the US again.
Greenwald, a journalist for the Guardian newspaper in Britain, is based in Rio de Janeiro. He previously reported in collaboration with Brazilian media that President Dilma Rousseff's communications with aides were intercepted, that the NSA hacked the computer network of state-run oil company Petrobras, and that the NSA scoops up data on billions of emails and telephone calls flowing through Brazil, which is an important hub for trans-Atlantic fibre optic cables.
He told Brazilian senators that if they really want to better understand US surveillance programmes, they should push their government to provide political asylum to Snowden, who received asylum in Russia on August 1.
Snowden's life 'difficult'
Snowden has not spoken publicly and his whereabouts remain secret.
Greenwald, who said he communicates via chat messages with Snowden several times a week, described Snowden's situation in Russia as "difficult".
Greenwald said Snowden could more freely explain the US spying programme if he were in Brazil.
Brazil's foreign ministry has said it would not respond to a previous request for asylum Snowden made to Brazil and other many other nations, meaning it was not granted but also technically not rejected.
Greenwald told the senate committee that the US government uses spying in large part to gain economic advantages.
"We now have several denunciations that show that the spy programme is not about terrorism. It is about increasing the power of the American government," Greenwald told senators, speaking in Portuguese.
"There are many nations saying, 'We're glad to be learning all this information' but almost nobody wants to protect the person responsible for letting the world discover it," Greenwald said, referring to Snowden and revelations based on the documents he leaked.
Greenwald added that if "a government is serious about defending privacy of data and freedom of the press" it would protect Snowden.
Brazilian government officials told Al Jazeera they were seeking to speak directly with Snowden via videoconference, and that they would be contacting Russian officials in that regard.
The fallout over the spy programmes led Rousseff last month to cancel a planned visit to Washington, where she was to be the guest of honor for a state dinner.
In his most recent report, Greenwald said on a Globo network television show on Sunday that Canadian spies targeted Brazil's Mines and Energy Ministry.
The report said the "metadata" of phone calls and emails from and to the Brazilian ministry were targeted by Canada's Communications Security Establishment. Canadian Prime Minister Stephen Harper said this week that he was "very concerned" about the allegations.
[quote]Freepers want their "republic" to be "free" of the state
We know what you want, or claim to want. You made that clear in your emphasis of the word 'free" in your thread title.
Why not go back to your fatherland, Free Republic?
You're fooling no one. We know exactly what sort of idiots have invaded DL recently. R64 was an excellent example.
We also know when you lose your minds you end up like Timothy McVeigh. Please take your psychotic paranoia elsewhere.
DL has enough nutcases. We don't need freepers in libertarian clothing adding to the mess.
Long may he live!
Dear idiot at r70, I didn't start this thread so it's not my thread title.
Oh, and the libertarian is Ron Paul supporter Edward Snowden.
It's amazing how stupid Snowden fans can be.
Where do you suggest he lives, r71? Russia? Let's see if Brazil wants him. I doubt it!
I'm glad to know what Snowden revealed. Are you?
R70 Why don't you go live in Russia?
I hear that they really love your kind there: dumb and gay. Good luck to you!
Not particularly, r73.
What is it that he actually "revealed"? Can you tell us?
It was revealed that the government can access pretty much any of my communication without my knowledge or consent, without a warrant. This is done by low level admin types who click their reasoning from a drop down menu.
And it isn't so much knowledge that was revealed as confirmation of what anyone with half a brain already knew. Still, I'm glad it's out in the open.
I also don't get these idiots who give a fuck about where Snowden is. He has no major secrets to sell and the secrets he has we're related to domestic spying. And if he did somehow have access to anything valuable, then the idiots at the NSA (and the private contractor that employed him) deserve to be blamed for their incredible idiocy for allowing some low level peon like him to have access to it.
Please join me in FFing R64. Death threats on DataLounge must never be tolerated. R64 must be removed from the system.
R77 It's a real shame that your reading comprehension level are sub-par. Did you grow up in lower income neighborhood??
There is no death threat. It is just a forecast or prediction of what happens to traitors.
It's just a matter of time...
Correction: "is" sub-par.
R76, no, that wasn't actually revealed at all. In fact, what you claim was revealed is a lie. That was the spin and bullshit spread to hype up the great Snowden/Greenwald/Assange/Guardian claims, but it is not true.
The statement "the government can access pretty much any of my communication without my knowledge or consent, without a warrant" is not true. If you think the government is accessing your own personal communication without a warrant, for which it has to have a good reason to request, then you are deluded.
The reason we are pointing out where Snowden is, is because it points out his hypocrisy and that of Greenwald, etc. Their interest is not in whether ordinary and innocent people around the world are being spied on by governments, all they care about is bashing the US. If Snowden gave a shit about mass government surveillance, he would not have arranged to go to Chinese territory and Russia.
Are we ever going to hear from Snowden, Greenwald, Assange, the Guardian, about the espionage and surveillance activities of the Russian or Chinese and other governments? Do they give a shit about them? I doubt it.
What's going to happen when the Russian government finds out Snowden is gay? Will he go to the GULAG?
Excellent point, 81.
Right now, NOM is orchestrating anti-homo laws in Russia...the communist nation where Snowden sought refuge from President Obama.
That's where NOM donations go...to outlaw homosexuality all over the world. Right now, Russia & some African nations are going along with them.
Snosden is no hero. He mis-represented himself when he took that job as a contractor. He went in there with the intent to deceive. I assume he signed confidentiality waivers...? That he broke?
So he leaks confidential info that is helpful to our enemies and harmful to our counter-terrorism.
Why is he a hero? For deceiving America, sharing our secrets, and seeking asylum in a communist, oppressive country?
If he'd rather live in Russia, so be it. If he prefers legal homophobia to America, that is his choice.
How many lives have been saved by the NSA eavesdropping? I don't defend it, but anyone who thinks the government isn't spying on us and hasn't been spying us for decades IS naive.
The world is different now.
[quote] The "free," self-serving cunt yet trapped cunt, Edward Snowden
If all of this had gone down under a Republican president what would be your thoughts on Snowden?
R82, Russia hasn't been communist for decades. It's a totalitarian regime but they're not communist.
Do Cuba & North Korea know that, r84?
Snowden is straight.
The free, self-serving cunt yet trapped cunt is being hailed as a hero by the nyt editorial board today.
North Korea is only officially communist, no one of intelligence would actually describe their economic system as communist. Are you posting from 1960? Russia courts America's enemies to counter-balance the US's global influence, not because they support or even care about a particular country's economic system.
You sound painfully out of touch talking about "communists".
He is a hero in my book.
R87 it is certainly communist. How else would you describe an economic system almost entirely controlled by the central planners in the government?
86, Russia did not instantly relinquish communism when the wall fell in 89.
And the fact that they [italic]recently[/italic] outlawed homosexuality supports the old reputation of them being "commies."
Putin wants to "wipe out" all of the people behind the recent bombings there. Sounds like extermination, doesn't it? He is not a Peace Maker.
If Snowden is straight, good for him. It sickens me to type that. But I feel like that, by seeking REFUGE in Russian, Snowden has turned his back on gays & lesbians all over the world. He should be boycotting Russia, not giving them America's secrets.
Greenwald has a MAJOR blind spot. He's lost me.
87, F off. People find the dumbest things to FIGHT about.
I've always been curious how Snowdon, a high school drop-out, got a job making six figures.
R90 they did not "outlaw homosexuality."
And why would anti-gay laws mean they're "commies" -- what does that have to do with an economic system?
Still waiting for the moron at R87 to explain himself.
Americans' lack of knowledge is appalling.
THey didn't, r92?
So it's ok to be gay in Russia? It's not a problem?
It's ok for gays to get married?
Are gays in Russia protected from unfair hiring & housing practices?
Hell no. They're not even protected from getting beat up...or killed.
Homoxesuality is basically against the law in Russia. If you don't believe me, then please go there and kiss your gay lover in public and see what happens.
That is where Snowden took refuge.
The American government is now making gay marriage possible.
The Russian government has now outlawed talking about homosexuality to school kids, because it is considered "propaganda."
I could not do what Snowden did, simply because I probably would have gotten bullied, beaten, imprisoned, tortured or even killed there.
You sleep with dogs, you get fleas. Barton Gellman and Laura Poitras have good reputations, but Snowden decided to align himself with Greenwald (and Putin)?
R93, I never said it was "ok" to be gay in Russia. I simply object to your saying homosexuality was "outlawed." There was no law passed "outlawing" homosexuality. That doesn't mean it is easy to be gay in Russia.
By the way, if you haven't noticed, many of the things you mention are true of the US as well.
R94, maybe he would have aligned himself with America if we allowed whistleblowers basic protections.
r93 Dude, you can't kiss your partner in public in the US either. You will get your ass beat anywhere in the world, especially if there are kids present.
Well maybe not in gay spaces of course....
The way some people are acting against Russia is just making more trouble for gay people there. The reason the Russians are so in support of this law is bcause they see homosexuality as "western", all the westerners who are pissed off about it are just proving this to them, And you're pissing off and annoying a lot of straight western people too. I hope the sochi Olympics happen without any embarrassing attention-seeking antics by gays but it doubt it. They'll probably all be 90& western lol, pissing off the Russians even more. lol
They don't want anything to do with western ills. Their country's power grows by the day, and there is not an overwhelming demand for gay rights there. Get over it. And let that country figure out their own problems. or go raise hell about Africa and the middle east and the Caribbean as well. but no, because you're racist.
"That is where Snowden took refuge. "
He didn't have any choice. He had to decide between China and Russia, and frankly I'm gay and I would choose Russia too. At least they have hot people.
If he went anywhere else, he risked his plane being stopped by the US and being dragged to a prison. Remember they took down the plane of a president of Bolivia, searching for him.
Give Snowden a break. Besides, Snowden isn't gay so it's irrelevant to him.
R97 is right on. The west's obsession with Russia is embarrassing. If you want to be outraged about treatment of gays in foreign lands, at least be consistent. Picking on Russia because it became a fashion statement is embarrassing.
If not for Snowden, Obama and his administration(James Clapper, Director of National Intelligence) would still be lying about all this crap.
I beg your pardon, r99, but r98 could not be more mistaken.
[quote]you can't kiss your partner in public in the US either. You will get your ass beat anywhere in the world, especially if there are kids present.
You're a tool if you equate being gay in USA with being gay in Russia. We have openly gay members of congress...you know, government officials who represent their citizens.
[quote]The way some people are acting against Russia is just making more trouble for gay people there.
BS. When one of us is threatened, none of us is safe. I didn't turn a blind eye to South Africa's apartheid back in the day. I certainly will not turn a blind eye to my oppressed brothers & sisters in Russia.
[quote] hope the sochi Olympics happen without any embarrassing attention-seeking antics by gays but it doubt it. They'll probably all be 90& western lol, pissing off the Russians even more. lol
You hope gay activists don't do anything embarrassing toward an oppressive, tortuous regime.
[quote]there is not an overwhelming demand for gay rights there. Get over it. And let that country figure out their own problems.
I'm sorry, the only response I have to that is a combination of disgust & amusement. There are no words.
OP, being both a stupid cunt and a useless cunt....
"BS. When one of us is threatened, none of us is safe. I didn't turn a blind eye to South Africa's apartheid back in the day. I certainly will not turn a blind eye to my oppressed brothers & sisters in Russia."
You sure are turning a blind eye to the 76 countries that treat gays even more poorly than Russia is.
"You hope gay activists don't do anything embarrassing toward an oppressive, tortuous regime. "
No, I hope gay activists don't do anything that's embarrassing for the world's gay people and could result in a bigger backlash for the gays who LIVE in Russia.
If people are going there to cause trouble, they should stay off their turf. They should instead cry about A&E giving TV's biggest star his job back.
r103, the point is not what countries have done in the past. It is what they are doing [italic]now[/italic]. What Russia is doing *today* is very dangerous and should be closely monitored. Of course other countries should be watched, too.
But this thread is about RUSSIA. So please stay on topic.
[quote]I hope gay activists don't do anything that's embarrassing for the world's gay people
Are you gay? Usually, minority classes want leaders who speak out against abuse. You seem happy to appease. That seems counter to your own human rights if you are gay.
Please answer my question: are you gay?
Actually R104 this thread is about Edward Snowden.
...who is in RUSSIA, r105. Hence the thread title:
[quote]Re: The "free," self-serving cunt yet trapped cunt, Edward Snowden grocery shopping & being oblivious somewhere in [bold]Russia[/bold]
Snowden stands with Putin. By seeking asylum in Russia, Snowden condones Russia's treatment toward gays.
He didn't [italic]have[/italic] to go to Russia. He didn't have to steal US secrets. The fact that he did so, and took our secrets to [bold]RUSSIA[/bold] makes him a traitor who supports a homophobic regime.
He is no hero.
When people were trying to find out just who Edward Snowden is, pics from an earlier attempt at modeling were discovered. It shouldn't be lost on anyone that at the end of the day, Snowden has sought the limelight. It's ridiculous to assume he was motivated solely by some altruistic desire to protect the liberties of Americans.
R106 is a fascist.
Snowden, like most, is a flawed individual. I loath Russia; it's a corrupt oligarchy that does oppress gays. Snowden's seeking refuge there is not a statement that it is superior in terms of human rights. He went to Russia, because the US threatened other nations who might have otherwise offered him asylum.
This isn't just about privacy violations. But, the real issue with Snowden is that he publicized the US' running roughshod over constitutional rights with a system that is without effective oversight to limit abuses. It's equally frightening to me that so many of my fellow Americans are willing to give up all to the state without any protection of abuse. He is to me a hero. The willingness of Obama--who I supported in both elections--to prosecute Snowden but give Bush, Cheney, and others who committed war crimes a free pass is troubling.
Actually, r109, but in truth...well, this may [italic]shock[/italic] you, but you are mistaken.
I am not a fascist. Not anywhere near being a fascist.
Nobody could be more wrong than you, r109.
If you got such a basic, obvious fact WRONG, then there is no point in reading ANY of your posts.
Simply put: you are stupid.
R110 how is Bush a war criminal but Obama isn't?
op, go fuck yourself.
R111 your logic is a fascist's logic. Pure and simple.
Way to use your words, r113.
Very well stated R110.
No, r114. You are wrong. It's clear because you offer no elaboration.
Because here is my logic:
- Snowden took a job as a contractor with the NSA for the sole intention to gain access to USA secrets.
- Snowden was required to sign a confidentiality agreement. He signed it, knowing full well that he would break it.
- Snowden took USA secrets to a nation that has historically been considered an enemy to the USA. Remember the Cuban Missile crisis?
- Russia has made it illegal to be openly gay there, or even talk about homosexuality with people under 18 yo.
- Russia has blocked the adoptions of their orphans by gays & lesbians, and has expressed interest to rescind past adoptions, and force those legally adopted kids to be returned to wonderful Russia, who takes such good care of their people.
Yes, I love my country. Does that make me a fascist? Putin loves his country, too. So I guess he's also a fascist. Which means Snodwen is cooperating with a fascist...a fascist who hates America where gays can get married and a black man can be president.
R117, read the times editorial today to get your facts straight on snowden.
Also, it is not illegal to be gay in Russia.
[quote]Snowden took a job as a contractor with the NSA for the sole intention to gain access to USA secrets.
[quote]Remember the Cuban Missile crisis?
Only 1/3 of Americans are old enough to remember that, old man. Clearly you are stuck living in the past. Now shuffle along, gramps. I think there is a Matlock rerun for you to watch.
Is it ok to be gay in Russia? I
It's ok for gays to get married?
Are gays in Russia protected from unfair hiring & housing practices?
Hell no. They're not even protected from getting beat up...or killed.
Homoxesuality is basically against the law in Russia. If you don't believe me, then please go there and kiss your gay lover in public and see what happens.
That is where Snowden took refuge.
The American government is now in the process of legalizing gay marriage. When will Russia do the same?
They have outlawed talking about homosexuality to school kids -- they consider it "homosexual propaganda."
I could not do what Snowden did, simply because I would not be welcome in Russia.
I would have gotten bullied, beaten, imprisoned, tortured or even killed there.
But I don't enjoy the same privileges Mr. Snodon does. I'm gay, not straight.
If you're gay, then you are self-loathing for accepting Russia's anti-gay laws.
[quote]Homoxesuality (sic) is basically against the law in Russia.
That is not the same thing as saying it IS against the law.
On May 9, 2013, after Victory Day parades in Volgograd, the body of a 23-year-old man was found tortured and murdered by three males who stated anti-homosexual motivations, even though family and friends state the victim had no behavior inclination.
On May 29, 2013, the body of openly gay 38-year-old deputy director of Kamchatka airport Oleg Serdyuk (rus: Олег Сердюк) was found in his burned out car, having been beaten and stabbed the previous day.
Federal laws passed on 30 July 2013 ban the promotion of homosexuality to minors. According to some commentators the new law makes it illegal to hold any sort of public demonstration in favour of gay rights, speak in defence of gay rights and distribute material related to gay rights, or to state that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships.
Between 2006 and 2013, ten regions enacted a ban on "propaganda of homosexualism" among minors. The laws of nine of them prescribe punishments of administrative sanctions and/or fines. The laws in some of the regions also forbid so-called "propaganda of bisexualism and transgenderism" to minors.
In June 2012, the Moscow City Court upheld a new law banning gay pride parades in the city for the next hundred years.
In June 2013 the national parliament (the State Duma) unanimously adopted, and President Vladimir Putin signed, a nationwide law banning distribution of "propaganda of non-traditional sexual relations" among minors. The law does not explicitly mention the word "homosexuality", but instead uses the euphemism "non-traditional sexual relations". Under the statute it is effectively illegal to hold any gay pride events, speak in defense of gay rights, or say that gay relationships are equal to heterosexual relationships.
The law subjects Russian citizens found guilty to fines of up to 5,000 rubles and public officials to fines of up to 50,000 rubles. Organizations or businesses will be fined up to 1 million rubles and be forced to cease operations for up to 90 days. Foreigners may be arrested and detained for up to 15 days then deported, as well as fined up to 100,000 rubles. Russian citizens who have used the Internet or media to promote "non-traditional relations" will be fined up to 100,000 rubles.
The statute amended a law that is said to protect children from pornography and other "harmful information". One of the authors of the statute, Yelena Mizulina, who is the chair of the Duma's Committee on Family, Women, and Children and who has been described by some as a moral crusader, told lawmakers as the bill was being considered, "Traditional sexual relations are relations between a man and a woman.... These relations need special protection".
Commenting on the bill prior to its passage, President Putin said, "Can you imagine an organization promoting pedophilia in Russia? I think people in many Russian regions would have started to take up arms.... The same is true for sexual minorities: I can hardly imagine same-sex marriages being allowed in Chechnya. Can you imagine it? It would have resulted in human casualties."
I'm no historian, but my guess is that being Jewish in Germany was not illegal before Hitler rose to power.
The writing on the wall in Russia is of great concern to all who love freedom & liberty.
Do not go to Russia. Unless you have USA secrets that you stole...
You're splitting hairs and being petty, R121. The fact remains, Russia is no friend to gay people and this is a gay website.
Snowden's a cheap opportunist, a self-serving famewhore and a traitor to the United States. I don't trust anyone who'd betray his own country for financial gain and self-aggrandizement. He's nothing but a narcissist and a fool.
It's repulsive to see so many freepers supporting a cunt like Snowden, simply because he embarrassed a president they dislike.
R124 is the nyt editorial board a freeper?
[quote]You're splitting hairs and being petty,
Pointing out that it is NOT illegal is not splitting hairs, its just stating a fact. Get used to it.
[quote]The fact remains, Russia is no friend to gay people and this is a gay website.
No one has said otherwise.
The American public has a right to know what our goverment is doing. They have violated the constitution and broken laws. They have to be held accountable for that. If you think that is wrong, then the US is not the place for you. I suggest you try North Korea.
Since you're presumably a gay man posting on a gay website about the loving arms of Mother Russia, R126, I suggest you try it there.
You're still a petty little bitch.
So now I'm forced by trolls to choose between denouncing homophobic laws in Russia or the obvious excesses of the NSA? Why can't I be against both?
In related news, R124 et al is a fucking idiot.
[quote]Since you're presumably a gay man posting on a gay website about the loving arms of Mother Russia
I never said anything even remotely close to that.
Who taught you to read? Sarah Palin?
The implication from r121 is that there is no need to be concerned about the safety of gays and lesbians in Russia. That is not the case. The laws are changing in Russia.
[quote]President Putin said, "Can you imagine an organization promoting pedophilia in Russia? I think people in many Russian regions would have started to take up arms.... The same is true for sexual minorities: I can hardly imagine same-sex marriages being allowed in Chechnya. Can you imagine it? It would have resulted in human casualties."
I guess that means Glenn won't be visiting Russia anytime soon...? Or if he does, he won't be taking his bf.
[quote]The implication from [R121] is that there is no need to be concerned about the safety of gays and lesbians in Russia.
I said nothing of the sort. All I said was saying something is basically illegal is NOT the same as saying it is illegal. Thats it. Nothing more.
If you need to be so dishonest and twist what someone says in order to fit your argument, then you are not better than Bill OReilly or Sean Hannity.
[quote]Without Snowden, people would never know the US constitution, the greatest asset of the country, has been repeatedly raped by the government.
If this doesn't deserve a "MARY!" then I don't know what does.
[quote]The American public has a right to know what our goverment is doing.
Since when? That's never been the case. I'm not justifying the NSA spying, but really - you're surprised by it? The US has been playing spy games, within and outside it's borders, since WWII.
Oh, r131. Chill. You've been dismissive of Russia's worrisome and extreme anti-gay laws throughout this entire thread.
Stop clutching your pearls. As pointed out to you repeatedly, this is the dawning of a new anti-gay era in Russia. And it ain't pretty...in pink or any other color.
Does it bother you in the least that Putin wants Russian orphans adopted by gays to be returned to Russia? Or do you just think that's pie in the sky, and "the gays" are over-reacting?
Didn't J. Edgar Hoover routinely wire tap politicians, so he could black mail them?
Didn't he also have MLK's hotel room bugged?
J. Edgar Hoover was a RAPIST, too.
He RAPED the American Constitution with his wiretaps!!
R134 Again, all I said was saying something is basically illegal is not the same thing as it actually being illegal. That is the ONLY thing I have said on the matter of Russia. I have made no other comments regarding Russia.
You are trying so hard to make it seem like I support Russia or dont care what they do. But the evidence for such a claim is not there.
And saying I have done this thought the thread is a lie. I have only five postings here, most of which were to correct those who insist on attributing to me words I never said.
The fact that you keep lying about what I have posted only reinforces how weak your point is.
I wonder if Snowden will make it thru 2014? I predict he'll be offed and authorities will claim it was suicide.
The Valerie Plame incident in my opinion, was far more serious in that it involved top officials (Cheney and his Republican cronies), purposefully leaking classified info resulting in lost WMD contacts and deaths in the field.
Um, my point is not weak, r137.
And you calling me a "liar," when perhaps I was simply mistaken, is weak.
Russia is in the process, in my estimation, of outlawing homosexuality.
NOM has been going over there regularly to help Russia stem the pink tide from washing upon their shores like it has here in the US.
You are defending Russia, and thereby supporting their condemnation of gays.
As a side note, everyone knows how easy it is to post from different devices on DL. Trolldar is useless in that regard.
[quote]Um, my point is not weak, [R137].
Your posts suggests otherwise.
[quote]You are defending Russia, and thereby supporting their condemnation of gays.
That statement alone proves that you're an idiot with severe reading comprehension issues. Nobody on this thread has even [bold]REMOTELY[/bold] defended the actions of Russia.
"posts suggest". Oy.
Would you two kiss and make up already...
I didn't say you defended Russia's actions. But you are defending Russia as a viable place for an American to seek safety from our government.
Snowden chose Russia over the US, and to you that is acceptable. As a lifelong proudly out gay man, that choice is unacceptable to me. Not for reasons of conscience, but for safety.
We should shun Russia, not move there to live. With our country's secrets. Which are no longer secret.
Putin is allies with North Korea and Syria. Our enemies know our business thanks to Snowden.
Go ahead and worship your hero who proved to the world how horrible our government is. Let's just hope this doesn't get our asses kicked in the next world war. If you're gay, I don't recommend you visiting your hero in his new homeland.
R143 - do you understand why Snowden left Hong Kong, ended up in Russia on a temporary basis and then ended up in Russia long-term? Seems you do not. He hardly went out trying to get to Russia when he left the USA
But some of you folk:
"And the fact that they recently outlawed homosexuality supports the old reputation of them being "commies."
In other news the presumably Communist state of Utah demands (this week) that the Supreme Court uphold its outlawing of gay marriage.
The U.S. chased Snowden into Russia (blocked other exits and even arranged the interdiction of the President of Boliva's plane in an effort to prevent Snowden from getting out of Russia.
Constitution Loving U.S. of A.
He's fucking hero.
And I'd fuck his hole.
Not if Putin can help it, 146.
In the old days Snowden could have set up house in Switzerland. No more.
Fine. I'll edit my post at 143:
[quote]Snowden [italic]is choosing[/italic] Russia over the US, and to you that is acceptable. As a lifelong proudly out gay man, that choice is unacceptable to me. Not for reasons of conscience, but for safety.
He went to Russia to be safe, but if I went to Russia, I would be harmed. Tell me why theirs is a better nation than ours. A government more humane to its citizens than ours. A citizenry happier and healthier than ours. Tell me why they're better than us. Because they don't wiretap their people like the US does?
He was in transit through Russia and then found out the Cuba flight either had to fly over the continental US, which would have been grounded, or fly over south western Europe. A Bolivian ambassadors plane had been grounded and searched (in Spain or France I believe) and all assumed they were looking for Snowden to in turn give him to the US. This got rid of any flight paths to Cuba or Venezuela from Europe. He did not select Russia, it was his only option.
So many delightful aspects of Russian life you fail to acknowledge.
If he loves the Constitution so much, why doesn't he come home and honor it?
He got that job for the purpose of doing what he did. He signed a confidentiality agreement. He is deceptive.
It's not up to him to decide which state secrets are ok to divulge to our enemies.
Couldn't he have disclosed the truth in a better way? Less harmful to our country?
Snowden's followers apparently believe that the "the ends justifies the means." Lie, cheat and steal...runaway and take solace with an inhumane nation.
Betray your country. Let Germany know what assholes we are. Alienate the whole world. Just what we need in 2014.
Precious Snowden gets to decide for us all. Perhaps that's the connection he shares with Putin. That and a desire to be famous, worshipped and go down in history.
R59 speaks for me too.
Ou-est les neigedens d'antan?
R153, what has Snowden done to indicate he wants to be worshiped?
Gays like him because we like truth. "The truth will out" - Wm Shakespeare
R153 et al are not gay, just troll interlopers.
"Couldn't he have disclosed the truth in a better way? Less harmful to our country?"
The NSA was/is frigging spying on US citizens (probably me as I write this!) - that is not living up to the patriotic ideals of the Constitution!
Snowden didn't take his purloined intelligence to one of the US's enemies, R153. He released it to the public.
"Harmful to our country?" Give me a fucking break. Embarrassing, sure. Tough shit.
Whistleblower. Hero. Clear as day.
If history judges him otherwise, our nation was lost.
Too many people can't bear to admit that Obama is every bit the puppet of the shadow government Bush was.
r153 would be applauding if he did it under Bush.
You don't think giving our sate secrets to the world is harmful to us?
Then I guess we should have no secrets at all.
No more spies.
We don't need to intercept data. We don't need to track our enemies.
If you and Snowden say so. It's your call I guess. Too bad we couldn't all vote before he made the decision. But Snowden knows best.
I hope he spends the rest of his life in Russia. He doesn't deserve to be American.
What Snowden did, r160, is worse than Cheney outing Plame. And I still think Cheney should be tried for that. As well as for Abu Ghraib. And stealing both elections.
[quote]Go ahead and worship your hero who proved to the world how horrible our government is. Let's just hope this doesn't get our asses kicked in the next world war.
Since nobody else is going to say it:
R161 a free society deserves to have a debate about its government carrying out this kind of surveillance.
We do not live (yet) in a fascist state.
Wow, there's a lot of bootlicks in this fucking thread.
Fuck y'all for enjoying your enslavement to the military-industrial complex. You're part of the problem.
was he wearing earrings. . . .?
was he wearing. . . .caftans?
Jeezus, what a fecking drama queen.
Most of the secrets revealed in the Guardian so far expose the extent of the NSA's spying on other countries. Many of those countries are our allies (Israel, Germany, France); some of the spying has little purpose to American national security (Brazil's president? Petrobras? come on). Embarassing? Hell, yes. A threat to national security? Really?
I for one am quite happy he exposed all the NSA crap. The extent of intrusion on our collected privacy serves no practical national security purpose and just keeps the NSA gainfully funded. Furthermore, it pisses off all our friends in the world, who are now working on keeping their internet traffic out of US hands.
Snowden probably does have more damaging intelligence with him, and perhaps he handed some of that over to the "reds". But we have no idea, because the NSA was [bold]too fucking stupid to update their software[/bold], so they have no idea what he pulled up. Maybe they'll update their software in Hawaii now.
So, when WWIII starts and Kim Jong Un rains nuclear missiles on our heads, you can say you told us so. Until then, you're just a hysterical twat still living in the Cold War.
I don't support the vast military complex, but everybody knows that spying saves lives.
Spies picked up al qaeda chatter re: flying planes into our towers. Dubya decided to ignore the PDB stating such.
You don't think spies have prevented other atrocities? I mean, under a more competent president than Dubya?
R165 just finished watching White House Down and is not apologizing for it!
R168, why not just have a total fascist state to guarantee total security?
I'm torn about Edward Snowden. He was right that the NSA was out of control, but fleeing to a totalitarian state didn't enhance his credibilty.
I'm torn about him as well - I don't have enough info. And we'll never get the entire story because everything is classified.
If he could make it to France I think he could be alright in terms of legal residence, but somebody is going to wrap up this affair.
For him this experience is probably far worse than the fatwa Rushdie endured.
R171, he had to go somewhere he wouldn't be plucked from.
R172. France has an extradition treaty.
Hm. Per r170, how can the USA keep up with our enemies' increasingly sophisticated use of technology to terrorize us, without becoming a fascist state?
It was Eisenhower who warned us of the "vast military complex" that is now completely entrenched into our lives.
I like Ike.
Having massive numbers of desperate people all over the world threatens our national security.
We can't protect ourselves with weapons, ultimately. Nuclear proliferation is our planet's biggest threat. Seriously...not make believe movies about zombies, apocalypses, and the rapture. Catastrophic, unsurvivable nuclear war.
Snowden's not helping things AT ALL. He is a hero only to people willing to burn down the house to get rid of pests. Or bugs in this case.
He has justified our enemies' hatred of us, and alienated our friends from us.
He lied when he got that job. Funny how he hates deception from the government, but not from himself.
Snowden is not qualified to make the decisions that affect everyone in the world. He has no idea what is really going on. He thinks he does, but he doesn't. And right now ...while we have boots on the ground in Afghanistan, and terrorism all over the globe, Snowden has inserted himself into the equation. He is a distraction of our resources and effots.
He is not Jsson Bourne. He is not Thomas Payne. He is Benedict Arnold.
He deceived the NSA contractors who hired him, and he lied when he signed the confidentiality agreement.
If Snowden is pardoned, what precedence does that send? Is Johnny SMith going to also insert himself into our military affairs, and decide what confidential material he should disclose to the public based on her own, personal political beliefs?
R175 said little at length.
Nuclear proliferation is a grave danger, yes. But what does that have to do with Snowden? If anything he reveals how overactive our government is and how likely to alienate adversaries and allies alike.
All nations spy and have strategies to do with maximizing their power but we have taken things to an unprecedented level. That risks violent conflict; Snowden has given us a chance to back off and restrain ourselves in a way that encourages peace.
Very few think snowden should not serve some time for the laws he broke. But the overwhelming good he's done should mitigate his punishment.
R175 is a hypocritical, Republicunt troll who doesn't make any sense.
I don't know why anyone is even discussing a presidential pardon. There is no chance of that happening under this administration. If his name were Coalden there might be some hope.
[quote]we have taken things to an unprecedented level.
so have our enemies.
[quote]he reveals how overactive our government is and how likely to alienate adversaries and allies alike.
Who elected him to reveal such?
He lied to gain access. Isn't that what enemies of the state do?
He broke his confidentiality waiver. What if all contractors do the same?
Snowden is not the Decider. Unlike Bush, he didn't steal a presidential election. Nobody elected him to anything. So why does he have so much power?
Because he deceived his employers.
"Cunt" is a misogynist term.r177. You, sir, have no credibility.
Are all the Snowden fanbois misogynist? I haven't seen too many women support him. Probably because women are diplomatic and know how to go about things the right way.
We need more women in American government.
Hey R180. CUNT CUNT CUNT CUNT
R179 read the nyt editorial. He went to his superiors who ignored him. Look at the federal judges and the presidential commission who have validated him.
Perhaps one day 181 will mature into adulthood. However, his penis shall remain tiny.
I am aware that France has an extradition treaty with the USA but in this case the French are aggravated with the USA for electronic surveillance. I still sense that Snowden would have a good chance of legal residence there. The French are like the Honey Badger.
Here in Switzerland the gov doesn't want to get involved - so we're out.
Besides I don't see how - without some highly sophisticated underground effort - Snowden can successfully cross any international border.
The people here that attack Snowden are the same type that thought Hitler was doing all he could to help them, and so what if a few Jews and homos got killed.
You are sick. Snowden, Manning, and Greenwald are all heroes, exposing the evil rot at the core of our big governments.
Do you support Obamacare?
Do you think the Federal Reserve is doing a good job?
Do you support domestic spying by the CIA and NSA?
If so, you are a fascist.
[quote]- Snowden was required to sign a confidentiality agreement. He signed it, knowing full well that he would break it.
So, if the US government sends a spy to Israel and they sign a document that precludes them revealing info, they are evil because they signed a document with a criminal power to help their own country?
You are REALLY fascist!
Bah. Let the little famewhoring coward rot in Russia for the rest of his days. Let's just see how he likes that.
It's a given that Snowden's treason doesn't signify with his adoring fans. What I find so informative is that his lying and stealing are also perfectly acceptable behavior as far as his young followers are concerned. How very Scientology of them, the vicious little hypocrites.
All the best to Edward Snowden,
a true American hero!
Give him library or give him death.
ASSHOLE @ R153
[quote]If he loves the Constitution so much, why doesn't he come home and honor it?
Why don't you ask Obama or Bush or Clinton or Congress to honor The Constitution? They shit on it every day!
Fuck you, fascist asshole cunt motherfucker!
"Our enemies"? The people of Russia, and Iran, and Syria, etc. don't hate Americans. They hate our government for bombing them, stealing from them, starving them. They love Americans. They HATE our government. I hate my government too. It is evil and corrupt.
[quote]Too many people can't bear to admit that Obama is every bit the puppet of the shadow government Bush was.
Isn't it sad? Educated, intelligent people still think that Bush and Obama are different. They both worship the military and Wall St, preside over a massive spy network and think the government can control our lives.
That's what comes from government Edumacationing.
[quote]We do not live (yet) in a fascist state.
R164, I think you need to look around. Fascism ascended under Reagan, and Bush (1&2) Clinton and Obama have embraced it.
[quote]Wow, there's a lot of bootlicks in this fucking thread.
That's the problem with trusting the government. If you give them control of the banking system, or education, or health care...it will eventually result in this kind of bullshit.
When was the last time someone threatened to bomb Switzerland or Andorra or Liechtenstein? Maybe since they MIND THEIR OWN BUSINESS and don't go around murdering children with drones and invading other countries they perceive as threats to the dominion of the USDollar...
Oh, wait, is it because we need the PetroDollar to remain the dominant currency that our evil government invades and bombs these countries?
Please study up on history, and economics, and you will see why our government has become the new Evil Empire.
R194 = Ruth Madoff
Please explain that non-sequitur. Too strange and random not to ask.
Madoff had dozens of friends inside the SEC, and they protected him. Numerous junior staffers pointed out how he was manipulating regulations, and engaging in criminal behavior, but the bosses squashed any investigation. When it fell apart, many of those SEC bosses "retired" and took jobs with PRIVATE EQUITY UNDERWRITERS, committing the same crimes the covered up for Madoff.
Don't you see how they "retire" from the government and then take jobs with Goldman Sucks or BofAmerika to exploit their "connections" to make MORE money for the 0.1%????
Maybe Snowden should escape to an iz-land.
"The National Security Agency routinely shares raw intelligence data with Israel without first sifting it to remove information about US citizens, a top-secret document provided to the Guardian by whistleblower Edward Snowden reveals."
I see the cheap stench of Liberatarian idiots has wafted into this thread.
And the necrotic stench of fascist assholes greeted me when I read your post, R201.
So, wanting to stop the government from spying equals libertarian?
Wow, you are one fucked up bootlicker.
Does this thread exist?
[quote]And the necrotic stench of fascist assholes greeted me when I read your post, [R201].
Funny how anybody who dares to question your wisdom immediately gets pegged a fascist. It's almost like the word doesn't mean anything.
Here's something to make your tiny little fucked-up brain explode: I support the ACA, I support Edward Snowden, I don't give a shit about the Fed, and I believe like Einstein that only two things are infinite, the universe and the stupidity of Libertarians.
Now shut up and let the adults talk.
[quote]Madoff had dozens of friends inside the SEC, and they protected him. Numerous junior staffers pointed out how he was manipulating regulations, and engaging in criminal behavior, but the bosses squashed any investigation. When it fell apart, many of those SEC bosses "retired" and took jobs with PRIVATE EQUITY UNDERWRITERS, committing the same crimes the covered up for Madoff.
So the obvious solution per your argument is more government regulation of the financial industry.
Glad to see Libertarians finally get in touch with reality.
If the fact that tens of thousands of regulators, millions of pages of regulations, billions of dollars spent complying and Madoff STILL escaped unpunished for decades is a call for MORE government regulation - instead of cutting regulations, actually FUCKING ENFORCING the laws, and allowing the market to weed out bad actors by forcing transparency- then you are the same person who was shocked- SHOCKED- when the housing bubble popped, or when Bear Stearns imploded, or Fannie/Freddie failed- aka a total moron.
When you suggest that Tim Geithner, Eric Holder, Ben Bernanke and George Bush all share a jail cell next to Greenspan, Boehner, Reid and Obama then I'll know you're serious. Until then you're just another shit shill for Wall Street.
Should've known R204/205 were the same.
"I support the ACA" is all I need to read to assess you as a fascist. Anyone who supports giving private corporations control of the entire health care industry at the point of a government gun...well, that's fascism.
Please read up on the difference between a free market - something that hasn't existed in the US for a looooooooong time- and fascism, aka the symbiotic marriage of government regulation and corporate power to the benefit of the elite- and then grow the fuck up and look at the world.
Big corporations control the government, and do the bidding of the government in a pas de duex that enriches the elites while impoverishing the lower 99.9%. How someone can claim to be a liberal but be so blind to the damage done by Wall Street's lapdogs in DC and at the Federal Reserve is a testament to the power of government controlled education.
Please wake up. People as intelligent as you seem to be are the people that need to break out of the foggy dream world you live in and see the real world.
[quote]If the fact that tens of thousands of regulators, millions of pages of regulations, billions of dollars spent complying and Madoff STILL escaped unpunished for decades is a call for MORE government regulation - instead of cutting regulations, actually FUCKING ENFORCING the laws, and allowing the market to weed out bad actors by forcing transparency- then you are the same person who was shocked- SHOCKED- when the housing bubble popped, or when Bear Stearns imploded, or Fannie/Freddie failed- aka a total moron.
An amusing interpretation of reality. Here on our planet, the financial markets were totally unregulated prior to the 2008 meltdown.
And cutting financial regulations would fix financial malfeasance? What kind of drugs do you smoke to make that kind of logic work? Whatever it is, I think it's illegal in whatever SE asian tinpot dictatorship you call home.
"allowing the market to weed out bad actors" translation: turn a blind eye to malfeasance until the next meltdown. Self-regulation doesn't work.
You dream of a lovely world in which black is white, up is down, and eliminating laws would fix malfeasance. Lewis Carroll would be proud.
What's with White House spokesman Jay Carney making himself look more like Edward Snowden?
[quote]An amusing interpretation of reality. Here on our planet, the financial markets were totally unregulated prior to the 2008 meltdown.
You mean the 2,039,000 pages of the Federal Register devoted to FINRA and other financial "regulations" equal "totally unregulated"?
[quote]And cutting financial regulations would fix financial malfeasance?
When +2M pages of regulation...the kind that allowed Bernie Madoff and JPMorgan and Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac and so on and so on rape the middle and lower class...has failed, maybe a new paradigm is in order. But, since the financial system is controlled by the big banks via the Federal Reserve no real regulation will ever happen until our current system is destroyed by the sheer evil and unsustainable nature of "top down" control.
[quote]What kind of drugs do you smoke to make that kind of logic work?
The kind that let me see that millions of pages of banking regulations WRITTEN BY THE BANKS is unsustainable.
[quote]Whatever it is, I think it's illegal in whatever SE asian tinpot dictatorship you call home.
Non sequitur. The US banking system is fucked. The people like you that support it are moronic quislings.
[quote]allowing the market to weed out bad actors" translation: turn a blind eye to malfeasance until the next meltdown. Self-regulation doesn't work.
No, if "bad actors" weren't protected by millions of pages of regulations, and had to operate in a real free market (not one controlled by the Federal Reserve and DC) then self regulation would work, because BAD ACTORS would be driven out of the system.
[quote]You dream of a lovely world in which black is white, up is down, and eliminating laws would fix malfeasance. Lewis Carroll would be proud.
And you live in a world where the government is benevolent and kind and just and omniscient. You are the one living in a fantasy world motherfucker!
Neither you nor anyone who employs you has ever read one page of those regulations. Knock it off, liar.
Edward Snowden is a hero.
Do any of the normal people reading this thread have any idea why these retarded libertarians infest the DL, a liberal gay gossip website? They're not liberal, they're not gay, they take themselves and their loony bullshit far too seriously for pointless bitchery, they don't know any gossip, why are they here?
I'm happy to pick on both the anti-gay fascism of Putin AND the Russian State, PLUS criticise the US government for the NSA spying and dismantling of civil liberties. Oh, and still vote for Obama over Republican scum.
I wonder how much Snowden likes being in Russia now that they're on the brink of starting WWIII.
How did he get such a high clearance?
I'm sure he prefers it to being in prison in the US, r215.
[R2] That sounds like a porn flick fantasy.
R214, are you a US citizen? You say you voted for Obama, which would mean you're American (US), yet you use "criticise," which is not a US spelling convention.
[quote]are you a US citizen? You say you voted for Obama, which would mean you're American (US), yet you use "criticise," which is not a US spelling convention.
Dear fucking lord.
Edward Snowden should be put to death for endangering the well being of our country and directing us towards global confict and perhaps World War III. This threatens the well being of all American citizens which could die in combat and the loss of a free government.
The NSA is investigating other people perhap three others involved with Edward Snowden.
There is no question Alex Jones and Jesse Ventura are involved, although the question remains were the others involved in assisting Edward Snowden visiting Infowars and connected to Alex Jones and his visits to Russia where Alex Jones condemned the United States government on National Russian television while being crowned by Moscow and Putin for his aggression.
Where the hell is the constitution and the treason laws of the country?
We have government representatives involved in conspiray theories for political gain.
There has to be some laws.There should be a congressional hearing with representatives facing investigation for charges.
Only death for the traitor Edward Snowden the Russian.
Eat a cookie R221, you'll feel better.
Good thing Snowden is straight. If he were one of us, Putin would sucker punch him in the face repeatedly.
r221, Your government was betraying your constitutionally protected rights and Edward Snowden exposed the privacy hating governments illegal and unethical practices.
You have seriously got to get some help so you can understand why you are voting against your own best interests in supporting the Fox news propaganda that Snowded betrayed his country when in truth the country has betrayed its citizens.
Please get help with your free floating anget that is being exploited.
[quote]Your government was betraying your constitutionally protected rights and Edward Snowden exposed the privacy hating governments illegal and unethical practices.
We knew that under Dubya. It's old news. We were outraged then but were told this is the new normal in post 9/11 America.
That's why we now have shows like "Person of Interest" and countless other shows & movies about Big Brother spying on us.
Everybody knows that the US government is spying on them...it's how we were able to embed an agent in an al qaeda connected group in Africa last year.
Yes, it sucks.
But we do have a FISA court to approve NSA eavesdropping. If you don't like it, then change it. I know that I would like to.
But stealing our secrets and fleeing to Russia only helps Putin. It does not help you or me. In fact, it puts us in danger because now Comrade Putin has all of our government secrets.
Secrets that they could exploit to terrorize us...like the security vulnerabilities of the Boeing's 777 Flight Management System.
In a free society, we the people would have privacy and the power to spy on our government officials.
If they aren't doing anything wrong, they have nothing to hide, right?
Don't worry that mole on his neck will kill him in a year or so.
Snowden Retained Expert in Espionage Act Defense
WASHINGTON — Edward J. Snowden, the former National Security Agency contractor who provided journalists a trove of classified documents, retained a well-known Washington defense lawyer last summer in hopes of reaching a plea deal with federal prosecutors that would allow him to return to the United States and spare him significant prison time.
The lawyer, according to people familiar with the investigation, is Plato Cacheris, who has represented defendants in some of the highest-profile cases involving Espionage Act charges, including the convicted spies Aldrich Ames and Robert Hanssen and the convicted leaker Lawrence Franklin.
But nearly a year after Mr. Cacheris became involved, no agreement appears imminent, and government officials said the negotiations remained at an early stage.
The officials and others who discussed the case and Mr. Cacheris’s involvement in it spoke on condition of anonymity, citing the sensitivity of the talks.
Mr. Snowden, who now lives in Moscow, where he received temporary asylum, was charged last year with multiple violations of the Espionage Act. He faces up to 30 years in prison, and prosecutors could easily add more counts.
In a phone call, Mr. Cacheris said only: “It’s not something that I want to discuss, so I have no comment.”
Mr. Snowden’s revelations about the breadth and intrusiveness of the N.S.A.’s surveillance prompted the first major reconsideration of the government’s surveillance powers since the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks. President Obama has said he wants to stop the N.S.A.’s collection of every American’s phone records, a program that was the subject of the first news article based on Mr. Snowden’s documents. But Mr. Obama and other administration officials have said Mr. Snowden should return to the United States to face prosecution.
Mr. Snowden has said that he wants to live somewhere other than Russia, but that American diplomatic pressure is preventing him from traveling or obtaining asylum elsewhere. Still, as long as he can live indefinitely under asylum in Russia, he appears unlikely to strike a deal that would require a lengthy prison sentence.
“Snowden is interested in returning home,” said Ben Wizner, an American Civil Liberties Union lawyer who also represents Mr. Snowden. “He is and always has been on America’s side. He would cooperate in extraordinary ways in the right circumstances. But he does not believe that the ‘felon’ label is the right word for someone whose act of conscience has revitalized democratic oversight of the intelligence community and is leading to historic reforms.”
Prosecutors have signaled no interest in giving Mr. Snowden credit for the surveillance debate he started.
“He is accused of leaking classified information, and there is no question his actions have inflicted serious harms on our national security,” said Marc Raimondi, a Justice Department spokesman. He said Mr. Snowden was not a whistle-blower.
Any deal could depend on what information Mr. Snowden could give in return.
In December, Richard Ledgett, who was then the National Security Agency official leading the response to the leaks and has since become the agency’s deputy director, floated the idea of a deal in which Mr. Snowden would receive leniency in exchange for returning documents in his possession that he had not disclosed.
“I would need assurances that the remainder of the data could be secured, and my bar for those assurances would be very high,” he said. “It would be more than just an assertion on his part.”
It is not clear whether Mr. Ledgett was suggesting an outcome in which Mr. Snowden persuaded journalists to destroy or return the documents, or whether the government believed Mr. Snowden had kept back documents to use as leverage.
Mr. Snowden has repeatedly said he did not bring any documents to Russia. He recently told Vanity Fair that there was no “doomsday cache” in his possession, saying, “Who would set up a system that incentivizes others to kill them?”
Even if he has no documents to return, Mr. Snowden could also help the N.S.A. by providing an accounting of what he took. Despite government claims that Mr. Snowden may have taken 1.7 million documents, Mr. Snowden also told Vanity Fair that figure is “a scare number based on an intentionally crude metric: everything that I ever digitally interacted with in my career.”
Mr. Ledgett confirmed to Vanity Fair that the N.S.A. did not know what he had taken.
Some leaks cases have ended with charges less than a felony, and Mr. Wizner’s remarks suggest that Mr. Snowden wants something similar. Thomas Drake, a former N.S.A. executive accused of leaking about waste and mismanagement to The Baltimore Sun, was charged under the Espionage Act with mishandling classified documents. He settled his case in 2011 for a misdemeanor guilty plea and served no prison time.
Several other leak cases under the Obama administration have resulted in deals for roughly two or three years in prison. At the far end of the spectrum, Chelsea Manning, formerly known as Pfc. Bradley Manning, who leaked documents to WikiLeaks, was sentenced by a military court last year to 35 years in prison.
Daniel Richman, a former federal prosecutor and a Columbia University law professor, said the first step toward a deal is hiring someone like Mr. Cacheris — “a lawyer whom the government can trust and has familiarity with.”
Mr. Cacheris previously represented Mr. Franklin, a Pentagon analyst who was prosecuted under the administration of George W. Bush for leaking classified information about Iran to pro-Israel lobbyists, who in turn were accused of passing it to journalists.
Mr. Franklin pleaded guilty in 2005 and was initially sentenced to nearly 13 years in prison. In 2009, a judge reduced the sentence to 10 months of community confinement.
In 2001, Mr. Cacheris represented Mr. Hanssen, an F.B.I. agent charged with spying for the Soviet Union and Russia. He negotiated a plea deal for a life sentence, sparing Mr. Hanssen the death penalty and allowing his wife to collect part of his pension.
In 1994, Mr. Cacheris represented Mr. Ames, a Central Intelligence Agency officer charged with being a Russian agent. Mr. Cacheris negotiated a deal for a life sentence for Mr. Ames and a lighter sentence for Mr. Ames's wife for aiding his spying.
But Mr. Snowden’s negotiations will face steep hurdles, Mr. Richman said, because even if he can offer something, the government will want a punishment that deters future leakers.
“If there isn’t a deal,” Mr. Richman said, “it’s an unfortunate but relatively stable thing for him to be in Russia for the rest of his life with an American indictment standing against him.”
The Russians must despise him, but they won't let him go as long as they receive propaganda benefit from him or there is still some information to be sucked from his hard drives. If Snowdon had fled to Russia because he loved the country or was a FSB spy then the Russians would gladly shelter him for the rest of his life. As far as the FSB is concerned he's just a traitor, slime. He's lost now, a global pariah.
It's mind-boggling to me that anyone would give our secrets to Russia, defect there, and ruin their own life.
That tells me that he was a Russian spy to begin with, and secured his position to steal our secrets.
Snowdon is NOT an honorable man.
There have been numerous Russian spies placed here who managed to acquire perfect English with an American accent. And they really slipped through the cracks and did some real damage.
Some of them are brilliant and very effective in what they do.
He wasn't a placed Russian spy - he's too stupid.
Snowden is a REAL patriot.
He risked and gave it ALL to expose the evil rotten core of our government.
Very smug, and self satisfied.
I hope he has to move to somewhere much, much worse than Russia.