Jim Croce - The 30-year old man, with 5 hit singles in 1973, plane crashed the DAY BEFORE his new song "I Gotta Name" was released, and just a few days his retirement from music. After Croce's death, his wife received a letter telling her he wanted to retire from music to write short stories and movie scripts, and spend more time with his son AJ.
Now, before you call me a conspiracy theorist, you have to understand that entertainers are nothing more than commodities to the ptb, and that their only goal is to maximize profits. The timely death of Jim Croce accomplished that with balls on. Not only did his death ensure that his newly released single would be a hit, it all but guaranteed he would never be forgotten, hence securing future sales.
Far too many young musicians die in plane crashes to be a coincidence, not to mention those young musicians who died in other circumstances.
Stevie Ray Vaughan
Ronnie VanZant, guitarist Steve Gaines, vocalist Cassie Gaines
Buddy Holly, Richie Valens, The Big Bopper
Reba McEntire band singing group
Harold "David" Box
"Now, before you call me a conspiracy theorist,"
I'll just go with "tinhat", thanks
It could be coincidence, but I can also see the music folks conspiring to kill someone for sales. Either could be true.
There is no doubt in my mind that at least half of the deaths of young musicians were conspired.
I'm not going to spend the time to google all their names, but I know most of the ones I recognized died due to being in small planes.
Always fly commercial.
Small planes are dangerous, and if musicians use them on their tours, there are going to be more untimely airplane-related deaths among musicians than in the general population.
Can't any of you fucking tinhats apply simple logic?
Does Dorothy Kilgallen count? Or am I on the wrong thread?
There was nothing suspicious about Aaliyah's death. The plane was over its weight limit and the pilot was subpar. No big mystery.
[quote] I'm not going to spend the time to google all their names, but I know most of the ones I recognized died due to being in small planes.
Always fly commercial.
Not always a possibility when getting from small town to small town. Even the "commercial" airlines fly puddle jumpers to and from those locations.
I seriously doubt that Jim Croce was going to "retire" from music. His career was going very well; if he had lived he would have gone on to more successes. Some "letter" he wrote saying he wanted to retire is just too vague. If there was a letter to that effect it was probably just something he was thinking about.
His death was an accident. Plane crashes that kill rock stars are usually caused by some failure on the pilot's part. There's no conspiracy involved. Rock stars travel a lot; they're on planes a lot. Frequently the planes or helicopters they're on are piloted by not particularly competent people. That's why there's been so many deaths.
For some reason I've been thinking about Stevie Ray Vaughan lately, listening to his music, reading biographies of him. His instrumental version of "Little Wing" is sublime. It's heartbreaking to hear him sing "Life by the Drop" because the song is so prophetic. He was a genius guitar player, as good as Hendrix, as good as Clapton. He'd been so addicted to drugs and alcohol that it almost killed him, but at the time of his death he had turned his life around and was clean and sober. He was playing better than ever. Then he got on a helicopter and the dumbfuck who was piloting it ran it straight into a mountain. Stevie Ray Vaughan was 35 years old. His death was a true rock tragedy; an incredibly gifted musician, clean and sober, who gets killed in a stupid helicopter crash at the peak of his power.
Again, I'm not saying all of the plane crashes were deliberate, but I guarantee you that not all were purely accidental, either.
In addition to plane crashes, musicians die young in other circumstances as well, not to mention the 27 club which include the very well known names:
Yep...all 27-years old at time of death, all famous musicians, and all coincidence...and that's just a few of the names.
Here are just a few more musicians who died before 40, not 27
Brian Epstein, 32
Hank Williams, 29
Johnny Ace, 25
Danny Cedrone (Bill Haley and the Comets), 33
Eddie Cochran, 21
Johnny Horton, 35
Gram Parsons, 26
Bobby Darin, 37
Cass Elliot, 34
Keith Reif (Yardbirds), 33
Phil Ochs, 35
Keith Moon, 32
Donny Hathaway, 33
Sid Vicious, 21
John Glascock (Jethro Tull), 28
Keith Godchaux (Grateful Dead), 32
John Bonham (Led Zeppelin), 32
Harry Chapin, 38
Karen Carpenter, 32
Dennis Wilson, 39
Andy Gibb, 30
Tupac Shakur, 25
Jeff Buckley, 30
Jam Master Jay, 37
OP - In the case of Ronnie VanZant, wasn't there talk at the time that his sista, Iyanla had something to o with it ?
Aaliyah was a workhorse who would have had a bigger career than Beyonce's if she'd lived. She was killed by negligence, that's all. Still bums me out, 15 or so years later.
I never heard that , but I did hear that Stevie Ray Vaughn's sista, Sarah, had something to do with his death. Was she a stewardess immune plane ?
Zapata died from a vagrant raping and murdering her. They caught him and he is in jail for a loooong time. Horrific, unspeakable way to die but hardly a conspiracy.
R10, given the way most of the musicians on your list lived, it's a wonder they survived as long as they did.
I think in the case of Graham Parsons, it was well established that his sister, Estelle, was responsible.
What about "suspicious lives"? How is Pete Doherty still with us?
Yeah, tinhats, it's shocking that a demographic known for its colossal abuse of drugs and alcohol, as well for frequent travel in helicopters and tiny planes, would have a higher incidence of early death than most populations. Better keep trying to get to the bottom of that.
OP's theory is one of the stupidest things I've heard lately.
"Aaliyah was a workhorse who would have had a bigger career than Beyonce's if she'd lived."
She'd been famous for years when she died. She had her chance to be "bigger than Beyonce" but it never happened. Her last studio album didn't debut well, it only rocketed up the charts when she died. If she hadn't died it probably would have been a sales disappointment. None of the songs on it were memorable.
Bobby Darin had Rheumatic Fever as a child, which pretty much destroyed his heart. That's why he died at 37.
Are you trying to say Sandra Dee poisoned him or something?
Stevie Ray Vaughn was a competent guitarist, but he was nowhere near the level of Hendrix or Clapton. They weren't even in the same category. Does being a gay man give one an automatic tin ear?
OP, how come Cat Stevens wasn't killed?
You're a moron, R24. All three of them were brilliant.
I say "were" because I think Clapton is on creative cruise control now. That Cream reunion concert at the Albert Hall a few years ago was deadly dull.
"Does being a gay man give one an automatic tin ear?"
Yeah, because all straight people have BRILLIANT taste in music!
Stevie Ray Vaughn is widely acknowldeged as a fantastic guitarist.
R10 Brian Epstein wasn't a musician, but more importantly - what would be the point of killing a musician? It's not like they're a clean living, sober bunch. Give them enough time and they'll kill themselves, like Amy Winehouse and Sid Vicious (who himself murdered his girlfriend Nancy Spungen and admitted to it).
The truth is that alcoholics and drug addicts don't always make wise decisions and they usually die young, no matter what their profession is. My brother died of a heroin overdose aged 27 - is his death suspicious because he was 27 or not suspicious because he was a journalist not a musician?
I really do wonder at times how the DL tinhatters get by day to day, what with the distrust of everything and no understanding of real life, which is that sometimes people overdose, sometimes people drink too much, sometimes people get into a plane or a car driven by an addict. Those things happen every day. Is that all a conspiracy too?
John Denver? Really?
Years past his prime and heydey - was he even making music anymore? Seriously doubt that anybody thought they would make a killing for a killing on that one.
What’s the difference between a baby and a bag of cocaine?
Eric Clapton wouldn't let a bag of cocaine fall out of a window.
The Eric Clapton comment made me think of this hilarious Mr. Show skit
Heaven better save some tears!
What about the girl found dead in Joe Scarborogh's office?
Gram Parsons, after trying to lay off the drugs for a while, went on a binge. He was staying at a hotel with a couple of druggie bimbos. He was od-ing; instead of calling an ambulance the two bimbos shoved ice cubes up his ass. Momentarily revived, he laid down on a bed; one of the bimbos went out to get food and coffee (supposedly) and the other stayed with him while he lost consciousness again and turned blue and died.
That seems to happen frequently; that is, a musician or performer is with a clueless twat or does nothing to help the pitiful drug-addled dope stay alive. Jimi Hendrix, John Belushi and Chris Farley were all with idiot sleazy women when they died.
I once read that they never found John Denver's head only the rest of his body and his plane. Has anyone ever heard that about John Denver's body? Is it bull?
I agree with the poster who stated that flying in those small planes were and are dangerous to fly in. I once heard on the radio this music historian who said many of these people who died in these planes were forewarned it was too dangerous. However, they were and are, always concerned about getting to the next concert no matter how stormy, and how dangerous the weather is. One of the main factors that make those small planes so dangerous because of the air turbulence is so strong and those planes are not powerful enough.
R33, didn't Jimi Hendrix die by choking on his vomit from od-ing?
"That seems to happen frequently; that is, a musician or performer is with a clueless twat or does nothing to help the pitiful drug-addled dope stay alive. Jimi Hendrix, John Belushi and Chris Farley were all with idiot sleazy women when they died."
Yeah, blame the "twats" and not the guys who were doing drugs to begin with. Some people here are so misgynistic.
r20 pwned OP.
R36, the clueless companion who didn't help the dying addict could just as well be a sleazy guy.
I guess the point (if there is one) is that addicts should choose more responsible folks to pass out with -- maybe only RNs or EMTs.
Phil Ochs sister was my substitute teacher once.
And yet Miley lives on. Book that girl a flight ASAP
[quote]Phil Ochs sister was my substitute teacher once.
Not in English class I hope, R39. Your sub was Phil Ochs[bold]'s[/bold] sister.
By the way, why is Phil Ochs included in R10's list? He hanged himself after years of alcoholism & serious (perhaps hereditary) mental illness -- does R10 think his death was a conspiracy? Even Bella Abzug acknowledged it was suicide.
OK, he's not a musician but I think JFK Jr. owns this thread.
1. Never that bright.
2. Entitled "celebrity."
3. Inexperienced pilot who'd crashed prior to the fatal crash but still traded up to a plane he wasn't remotely qualified to fly.
4. Totally misread weather conditions and his own limitations.
If he hadn't crashed on that flight it was only a matter of time where he'd have crashed on another.
To put this in perspective, OP, I have a great friend who's a very experienced and competent sail boater. We've occasionally gotten into some pretty dicey weather conditions while sailing but I literally trust her with my life. And here I still am.
I also have another wannabe boater friend who just about killed us all on his first and second times out. They was no third time. He eventually wrecked the boat himself because he just had no clue what the fuck he was doing and was an accident waiting to happen.
I will give you the Tupac/Biggie Smalls very deliberate gangsta style hit but most of the rest are just a random assortment of people who got in way over their heads.
"After Croce's death, his wife received a letter telling her he wanted to retire from music to write short stories and movie scripts, and spend more time with his son AJ.
... The timely death of Jim Croce accomplished that with balls on"
I suppose a record company might kill an artist if they thought that was the only way to get more money out of them, but only if they'd given up any hope of making profits from the living person.
If your entertainer is, say, begging his live-in Dr. Feelgood to kill him with propofol it might make sense, but Croce was functional and wanted to spend some time doing stuff that wouldn't make money. If he'd actually gone through with writing rather than recording, and wasn't just blathering the way most celebrities do, he'd probably have begging to his record company when he needed money.
OP = Tinhat
The internet loves the "Jay Z killed Aaliyah so Beyonce could be a star!!" theories. They said Jay's "On to the Next One" video, with the video vixen on all the suitcases, was some reference to Aaliyah dying. Very strange.
It is weird, though, that Rihanna is wearing a very similar fishnet body suit in her "Pour it up" MV with the same curly hair that Aaliyah had in the "Rock the Boat" video.
Have the Diana trolls just found out about the 27 club? Buckle up, we're in for a bumpy (and batshit crazy) ride.
Debby Boone's death always seemed suspicious to me
R46 the reports of Debby's death have been greatly exaggerated, it was only her career that died.
R34 I remember reading about that. I read they gave up looking after about thrre or four weeks. My mom read every gossip rag that was sold at the checkout, and I would read them right after she was done with that weeks edition. I have nothing to base this on, but I think it was probably written up in the Enquirer and not the strange(r) News of the World, or other gossip/news rag
Hot Toddy had a suspicious death.
I always wondered if Charles Shultz' death coinciding to the day of the last Peanuts strip was a symbolic act of euthanasia.
I love a good conspiracy theory but your thesis needs work, OP.
I know r47. But I enjoy spreading the rumor. It gives my life focus and a purpose!
Our Queen of Soul Aretha, once used a small plane to get to a concert and that plane almost crashed (I believe she was thin at the time)... she developed a fear of planes from that moment
[quote]Gram Parsons, after trying to lay off the drugs for a while, went on a binge. He was staying at a hotel with a couple of druggie bimbos. He was od-ing; instead of calling an ambulance [bold]the two bimbos shoved ice cubes up his ass.[/bold]
Who DOES that?!?
Ice cubes up the ass is an old street remedy for someone who is ODing.
No musician have ever died because of a government or record company conspiracy. The end.
A very talented young rock singer, Bobby Fuller.
Audie Murphy; in a plane crash, after he sounded off about knowing who killed JFK.
Well, we know all know Courtney killed Kurt. So there's that.
"A very talented young rock singer, Bobby Fuller.
Audie Murphy; in a plane crash, after he sounded off about knowing who killed JFK."
The death of Bobby Fuller was featured on an episode of Unsolved Mysteries
And how would Audie Murphy know who killed JFK?
I couldn't stand Jim Croce's music when I was a kid. "Bad, Bad Leroy Brown" made me wince.
But I thought he was kind of hot. He had that hairy Italian thing going on.
Oh my god...
Are you implying that Mrs. Patsy Ramsey, formerly of Boulder, CO killed Patsy CLINE?
Re: 'Suspicious Lives.' Keith Richards owns the title of course. Contenders: Iggy Pop, George Michael, Robert Downey Jr.
I hope you are joking, OP. Otherwise, your family and co-workers have my sympathy.
R49, I think Charles Schultz died from a broken heart. The peanuts were his LIFE.
Did Mary Miles Minter's Mom Murder William Desmond Taylor????
Just because entertainers fly in a highly disproportional amount of small aircraft, which are poorly regulated is no proof, nor is the fact they are overpaid and thus have access to the ability to waste their money on drugs.
Or they could simply meet Olivia Newton-John, she kills careers (John Dever, Andy Gibb to name a few), sent a boyfriend in to hiding by faking his own death and has mysterious dead bodies at her house, which she is conveniently away from.
Besides her kid is ugly, well not as ugly as the potato head trio but close.
R49, my bf at the time was always saying that about Charles Schultz. I just thought he was being weird, but I've heard others say it over the years. Strange.
r65 I don't know about THAT, but Ms Minter herself is worth 15 points when you play "Celebrities."
We left out JAZZ musicians who died young:
Bunny Berigan, trumpet, age 33
Bubber Miley, trumpet, age 29
Chick Webb, drums, age 34
Paul Chambers, bass, age 33
Fats Navarro, trumpet, age 26
Charlie Christian, guitar, age 25
Clifford Brown, trumpet, age 25
Jaco Pastorius, bass, age 35
Bix Beiderbecke, cornet, age 28
Charlie Parker, alto saxophone, age 34
When I was young - 1980 or so - I found a magazine on the newsstand that was devoted to this very topic, only their theory wsas that the 27 club (see r10) had actually sold their souls to Satan and he was collecting on the bargain.
I devoured that magazine more than once, and its theories have stuck with me to this day.
I wonder if there is a devil, and do people sell him their souls in order to have earthly fame and fortune?
It's not something we really consider today, but it is an ancient idea that existed for centuries.
Who really knows...?
Dorothy "Dolly Mae" Kilgallen OWNS this thread.
We recently had a Dorothy Kilgallen thread, and posters listed all of the things that didn't add up about the way she died and how her body was found. I don't believe in most conspiracy theories, but her death was very strange and the sheer number of suspicious things about it really made me wonder.
[quote]Dorothy "Dolly Mae" Kilgallen OWNS this thread.
I do believe that some musicians were murdered for their disputes with their management over where their money was. A good example is Jimi Hendrix. He was managed by the late Chaz Chandler, former bassist of the Animals. With all the success of album sales and concerts Jimi didn't have any money in his bank account. He started questioning Chandler and had arguments with him. Chandler stashed the money Hendrix earned in the Cayman Islands, as it was later discovered. Anyway, not long after Hendrix wanted to fire Chandler, Hendrix "OD'd" on drugs. Chandler obviously paid off the coroner. As for Brian Jones, the caretaker admitted shortly before he died, that Jones was murdered and did not drown in his pool from drugs. Jones was having far too many disputes with the Stones management. Follow the money and you will get your answers.
R66. Who are the potato head trio? Do you mean the Willis spawn, all of whom display none of the better aspects of their parents. Or are you referring to the Jonas Brothers? Hard to determine. At least they haven't been scraped, sanded and buffed like Rumor and her sisters and still look like something from Freaks.
r74 is correct.
With Hendrix, though, it wasn't Chandler but another man who was suspected (I forgot his name).
He was a manager, but not an A&R guy. When he died in a plane crash, people didn't pursue the story-figuring it wouldn't bring Hendrix back and the guy couldn't hurt anyone anymore.
According to another good thread here, Morrison's gf was also involved with a European drug kingpin when he died. The gf OD'd not long after Morrison's death.
As for Jones, it's long been rumoured that he was pushed into the pool and left to die. Who pushed was always debated; some even suggested Jagger, who was ambitious as hell.
Prepare yourselves for the Suspicious deaths of Rhianna and Chris Brown. Even though Rhianna has very little talent and can't sing to save her life, there are some very jealous people in the industry who are very envious of her chart sucess and persona. Rhianna has to be the most stylish and photogenic person alive. This is why they are trying to replace her with Miley Cyrus. Miley's people calculated everything including the very staged publicity stunt performance at the MTV awards. When Miley was on stage performing did you catch when the camera man showed Rhianna's face? That was no coincidence. Rhianna was forced to show up at the MTV awards and they told her that Miley is her replacement. They hate the fact that Rhianna is the black Madonna. Miley's whole image is a ripoff of Rhianna's. Even down to taking Rhianna's music. wrecking Ball was originally written for Rhianna. When they kill Rhianna they will just blame it on drugs just like they did when they killed Whitney, Michael Jackson and Amy Winehouse. TMZ will be the first on the scenes like always when a famous celebrity dies.
The Tate Donovan Troll
That tranny Eddie Murphy picked up
Has anybody stopped to ask themselves why all of a sudden Miley Cyrus is the most talked about celebrity these days? Even the likes of Cher,Sinead O'Conner and Elton John talked about her. But why? No one cared about her four months ago but all of a sudden she is all over the place including hosting Saturday night Live? Don't you all think this is all very calculated including her stunt performance at the MTV awards? All of a sudden she has a number one hit for the first time in her career? Why? Rhianna has a total of 11 #1 hits and was going to break some records and now here comes the white Rhianna. And you know damn well Miley is going to be more sucessful than Rhianna because Miley will have hits because of the strength of the freeper children teen audience who hang out at walmart. Everything that Miley has done so far was a calculated publicity stunt to replace Rihanna and stop her from being number one again on the charts.
"I wonder if there is a devil, and do people sell him their souls in order to have earthly fame and fortune? "
Fuck no, but people who will do anything for fame and fortune gradually destroy the best part of themselves to achieve their goals. I don't watch "Breaking Bad", but I understand it shows this process in depth (I know this because its fans never shut up). I suppose the process looks like a "sale" to an observer, because something is given up and something is gained.
But people don't need a Satan to help them tempt them into destroying themselves, they'd doing it of their own free will.
Aunt Diane died of a blood clot that went to her head while driving and drinking and smoking pot.
[quote]As for Jones, it's long been rumoured that he was pushed into the pool and left to die. Who pushed was always debated; some even suggested Jagger, who was ambitious as hell.
Jagger is also egotistical as hell & has always known that he's got what it takes -- nothing to fear from Brian Jones.
I thought Diane killed Flo.
R82, that video is almost eerily intense for a song about going to the club and getting fucked up. I think it's Rihanna's answering salvo to Miley's bullshit--the video itself was shelved for the longest time because of a dispute with the director, but I wonder if Miley blasting into the scene caused Rihanna('s people) to move on releasing it.
The frequent DL Tinhat threads are always good for a laugh, but it's ultimately amazing that some of the people here are capable of dressing and feeding themselves.
[quote]but I guarantee you that not all were purely accidental,
Ok, now is the time for you the expand on that by presenting your proof.
Did Audie Murphy have many contacts down in Texas?
"Jimi Hendrix, John Belushi and Chris Farley were all with idiot sleazy women when they died."
Maybe the idiots were the dead sleazy men.
I love that the deranged Rihanna troll doesn't know how to spell her name. That, and the non sequitur of "Rhianna has to be the most stylish and photogenic person alive. This is why they are trying to replace her with Miley Cyrus". Just that - no explanation of why it is imperative to replace someone because they're pretty, no explanation of who these shadowy forces are.... it's the perfect shitstorm of tinhattedness.
Jewish girls don't eat ham sandwiches!
Neither do anorexics!
Marilyn Monroe owns this thread. If she hadn't walked in on Arthur Miller and Joe DiMaggio in bed, she'd still be alive today.
I think they should dig up Jim Morrison's grave. There are those who claim he faked his own death. Just go to youtube and do "jim morrison alive" search. They claim he was spotted in a parking lot in Oregon. As I am typing this I am not wearing a tin hat.
Here's what happened to Jimi Hendrix.
He spent his last days with a German woman named Monika Dannemann. Her recollection of what happened has always been a bit confused, but the gist of it is this. She fixed him a tuna fish sandwich (people who knew him said he hated tuna fish). He took nine of her powerful German sleeping pills (Vesparax) ; the recommended dose was 1/2 to 1 tablet. It seems that he did eat something; the combination of that and the huge dose of pills made him sick. He was too out of it to puke; he choked on it. Dannemann said that when she woke up he was alive but unconscious and unresponsive. Did she call an ambulance? No, of course not. She called Eric Burdon of The Animals. He wisely suggested "call a fucking ambulance!" She eventually did, but Hendrix didn't survive. Would he have lived if she'd gotten help sooner? Maybe.
Dannemann killed herself at age 50. I suppose guilt had something to do with it.
Jim Morrison's probably alive. His father, Naval Admiral George Stephen Morrison was the Commander of US Naval forces involved in the "Gulf of Tonkin" incident that never took place. In other words, his father conspired to fabricate an incident that was used to massively accelerate an illegal war. It's very possible his father helped to fabricate a death of his once pro-military, conservative son.
Yes, Morrison was playing a role.
[quote]I wonder if there is a devil, and do people sell him their souls in order to have earthly fame and fortune?
I was truly shocked upon hearing of the murder/suicide of Miley Cyrus and Justin Bieber. Such a shame, they were so young. And coming so close on the heels of the Kardashian family perishing in that chartered plane crash.
R99 you are SUCH a tease! Throw in LiHo, in the library, with the crack pipe and it's the perfect trifecta.
If Dolly Mae Kilgallen didn't find Dick Kollmar, Bennett Cerf, and Desi Arnaz in bed together, she'd be alive today.
[quote] The timely death of Jim Croce accomplished that with balls on. Not only did his death ensure that his newly released single would be a hit, it all but guaranteed he would never be forgotten, hence securing future sales
Really? you're insane. You say this like his newly released single was going to be a 100% proven flop and there would never be a future sale of his music. His new single would have been a success.
So what if he wanted to retire? It's not like he was going to retire and stop all sales of his music. Plenty of musicians retire and they are doing fine. None of them have been murdered by their record company
R91, I'm not the Rhianna troll, I'm the Tate Donovan troll. I prefer to spell Rhianna instead of spelling it Rihanna.
Tate Donovan troll
good for you r104 be an individual!!!
I think people should be very Suspicious of TMZ and why they are always the first on the scene when a celebrity dies.
Jim Morrison is NOT alive. He died of a heroin overdose. His longtime girlfriend Pamela was using it, and he took some of her stash and died. No conspiracy at all. And by the way, Jim Morrison was NEVER "pro-military" or "conservative." Anything goes was his motto.