I'm watching a documentary on Ntetflix about near death experiences. Personally I don't believe in an afterlife. I think once wer're gone we're gone.
What do you believe?
No. Near death experiences are the brain shutting down as it's deprived of oxygen.
Nope. There's actually a thread here that discusses the scientific reality behind the perception of "after death experiences" if you search for it...
Many of the exact same experiences can be reproduced in the lab at will. Out of body experiences, the 'white light', the works.
I'm rapidly becoming a proponent of hell on earth idea.
I'll get back to you on that. Or not.
That we're energy and that after we die that energy goes somewhere. Where and how it's used I have no idea. I believe that energy develops a new form of consciousness too. Maybe not an individual one, like animal life, but some form. Maybe it joins a collective one like 7 of 9.
R1 and R3 These "explanations" are not at all adequate. They don't explain the complexity and the lucidity of the experiences, nor the fact that they tend to all be similar, even across cultures.
They also don't explain the awareness that the NDE people have of things they couldn't possibly have known (like relatives being already dead, or their knowledge of things that were going to happen in the future.) There are just far, far too many instances of this kind of thing for it to be reasonably labeled "coincidence".
I find the "oxygen deprivation" business to be just laughable.
What the fuck is this "We're energy" shit? What's the proof? Just because that hippy-dippy crap sounds nice doesn't make it so. When you die you become as powerful as God. And he doesn't exist.
Yup, we all already lived, died, went to hell. This is it. That's why people get reincarnated. Because you never get out of here. You will suffer here for all eternity. On Datalounge.
That's what I believe, I didn't say I had any proof.
There is no death. There is only a transition to a different sphere of consciousness.... Inside the spectral light is salvation, a window to the next plain. [Souls] must pass through this membrane where friends are waiting to guide them to new destinies.
Some people believe that when you die there is a wonderful light. As bright as the sun but it doesn't hurt to look into it. All the answers to all the questions you want to know are inside that light. And when you walk to it... you become a part of it forever. Now, some people die, but they don't know they're gone.
R8, are you truly that much of an idiot. Have you never taken a science class? How could an educated person not understand about molecules and energy?
Fuck off Tangina. God is in his holy temple!
I hate that show about kids that remember past lives. I don't want to have to come back here. This ride has sucked, and I'm a white male so I've been playing on easy mode.
Nope. I hate how most believers in this afterlife crap think only humans, as a master race, are entitled to afterlife. So are spiders or ticks any less alive than we are?
I don't believe in an afterlife. But if there is one, my dogs and cats will be there to greet me. They have shown me more love than most if not all of the people that I've known. I can't imagine a 'heavenly paradise' that wouldn't include them.
If there is an afterlife, it's nothing like people have imagined. No human religion is anything real, it's just human imaginings.
Only mammals and birds go to Heaven. Reptiles and icky things go back to Hell.
I've known people that seemed pretty reptilian.
Some people claim that there is a secret reptilian species cohabitating on earth with us.
If there is, I hope my enemies are suffering in hell.
If there is, I hope my dead relatives haven't been watching what I've been up to.
I believe I shall endure. I don't know about the rest of you, who seem to be a figment of my imagination.
All you queers are going to hell.
To understand immortality, we must first understand its root word, mortality.
It's in our nature to want to believe that we're special somehow, that we're more than a bubble in the foam on the crashing crest of a single wave on a small beach out of all the ocean.
None of us will know for sure until it happens to us. It's something that we all have to go through alone, and that we don't get to report back on afterwards.
I'm more scared of the act of dying, more often than not a painful, traumatic event, than whatever comes after, or not. I would like to choose the manner of my passing when I know the time is near to minimize any pain and suffering.
I hate it when people say "I'm more scared of the act of dying than what comes after, or not".
It is so damn trite and a lot of people are lying.
You know damn well that plenty of people are afraid of no afterlife and of being dead.
No, R26. I honestly don't get fear of death. I won't be there to experience it. Just like I didn't exist prior to birth, I don't exist after death. I will have no worries because there will be no 'me' to worry about anything. Why on earth would I fear death? I seriously do not understand that.
But like the poster above, I do fear dying... because it tends to be traumatic, painful, and of course scary. But then I find transitions traumatic regardless (new jobs, moving, whatever).
But yeah, it's fucking stupid IMHO to fear death. I don't get it.
Is it possible to avoid people you hate in the afterlife? There are a few people I don't want to see.
I had a dream of a loved one who passed away and told me he was ok.
Plenty of deaths are not painful. You're exaggerating.
And plenty are not traumatic.
My maternal grandmother died after MONTHS languishing in a hospital. My maternal grandfather was the same, dying one day later after hearing his wife of 60 years was dead.
My paternal grandfather was shoveling snow when he had a sudden massive heart-attack (painful, if only for a few seconds) and died.
My paternal grandmother sunk into dementia over the course of a decade or so, went through twelve, count 'em, twelve strokes, before finally succumbing after weeks in the hospital.
Not a single death there sounds "painless".
Only one was "quick".
The odds don't sound all that good to me, R29.
And looking at how many people die from accidents, cancer, violence, illness, fire, burning, ... compared to how many die peaceably in their sleep while otherwise healthy, seems rather rater.
Which documentary are you watching, OP?
I want to check it out.
I suspect there are people having a near-life experience. Some of them are in my family.
Unfortunately, one of the key parts of the ACA was to include end of life management, got tossed because it got labeled 'death panels' by the rabid right-wing-nuts. They love to extend misery for months...which translates to 100,000s of thousands of dollars in the last weeks of life. Instead of home hospice, and dignity of death.
The body contains flesh and electricity. Studies have seen the electricity in the brain leave the body as one dies. It's a photo-chemical process. Without electricity the body would not live. In order for the consciousness of the electrical part to live within the environs of Earth, it requires a body that works with the environment sphere of Earth.
That is why our bodies are made up of water and all the elements found in the oceans of the world. To live here we must require water, air and vegetation that grows here. And we were indeed formed in the salty Earth's seas eons ago that were bombarded by lightning. Electricity is a living element that inhabits the body. It has a consciousness. When we die it leaves the shell and goes back into time and space.
There is more to this existence than you understand. If you knew the whole truth you wouldn't believe or accept it. You have no idea of your real purpose here in your present, conscious state.
No idea at all...
R34, I love posts like yours.
Don't be an idiot, Rose. When you turn off your PC, do you think your MS Word document continues on as electricity 'leaves your computer'?
R33 is W&W. Christians get it so weird and wrong when it comes to the concept of life. A group of cells is a baby and they won't let you abort it, but once it's born they won't help with its quality of life. You put pets to sleep to ease their suffering when they are dying, but please put 100 tubes and wires into grandma to keep her 'alive' for another six months. She won't be able to talk or move or anything, but you can't let her die with dignity, that's a sin! Pisses me off.
I've known these ever since I saw Dr Frankenstein yell "it's alive, it's alive" after discharging
huge amounts of electricity on the monster's body.
R36 absolutely nails it.
I totally agree with r15.
I don't believe in an afterlife simply because there is no substantial evidence of it. However, I think if there is some kind of it, it will be very different from all the things humans imagined in their religions and mythologies throughout the ages, so I won't exclude any possibilities and I think it's the most rational way to look at this issue.
R34, so what more is there?
"There is more to this existence than you understand. If you knew the whole truth you wouldn't believe or accept it. You have no idea of your real purpose here in your present, conscious state.
No idea at all..."
care to enlighten?
You are nuts on this issue, R30.
Your maternal grandfather and paternal grandfather did not have a painful death.
Nor traumatic that they were aware of.
And both your maternal grandfather and paternal grandfather had deaths that were quick.
You certainly exaggerate.
It's a ridiculous thing to worry about.
The older I get, the less I believe in any religion or after-life. It's usually the opposite, but I think for the guilt-ridden.
If you want proof of an afterlife, start a thread about the Golden Girls.
I had a near death experience so I definitely believe in it. Actually I had a death experience because I was pronounced dead. One thing they have shown is that in people who have had near death or death experiences, there is absolutely no brain activity, and yet when they return to consciousness, they have much to tell.
Also when I was in a coma I could hear every single thing anyone said.
R45, do you have psychic abilities now?
how has life changed for you?
Some people can't bear the idea there could be an afterlife. It upsets their hatred of religion. They can't stand belief systems other than their own. It's threatening.
I have no psychic abilities! How has it changed me? Well, I certainly don't fear death. I feel like I take things more in stride and am more understanding. It definitely changed me and I think (hope) it made me a better person. I definitely didn't want to come back.
You're soaking in it.
Reincarnation is one of the crueller concepts.
R48, you "definitely did not want to come back"?
Please explain further why you say this.
Well I was with my loved ones and I had a tremendous feeling of well-being and peace, the likes of which I can't possibly explain. And the colors I saw were like nothing I've seen on this earth. I wasn't at all worried about those I'd left behind, I knew somehow that they would be okay. But I was told I had to go back, which I didn't want to do. And the feeling of going back was like being sucked through a vortex or something, very strange, and very painful, since I had been in an accident and I was in agony.
R48 Do you believe in any religion or are you an atheist?
Nope. Not even a little bit.
This is all there is. Just Worm Food City after we croak.
Why be afraid of death? It's life we should be afraid of.
their is something though heaven and hell are far too simplistic
R57, you wish
Could you answer the question at R53?
I believe that organized religion exists to sell back to us, second-hand, what we already own. But religion is losing its luster all over the world. Especially religious extremism.
There's this guy, Dr. Ian Stephenson, who has devoted his life to proving the existence of life after death. He says it's easier to find subjects in regions that haven't put such a focus in a dogmatic religion with biblical restrictions. He did a lot of research with young Indian children. I've read the reports. I find the subject fascinating.
love those atheists who have turned their non belief into a religion.
Nope. I wish I could, but I cannot. Doesn't seem much more likely than Santa. Although I do believe in grace, and love. I also know that I am not in control of much- a bit about my own life, and even there, not much. But I do not believe a supreme something is controlling my life. I even pray sometimes. But it may be the words of the prayer reminding me of my powerlessness and humble existence that comfort me, not that the prayer is "answered".
I wish I had "faith". The closest I can come is admitting my powerlessness- letting go. It's a form of grace, but it hardly constitutes a belief in afterlife. Wishful thinking.
If you think about it, life on Earth can be like hell for a lot of people, or even high school. So maybe death is Graduation Day. I believe the soul energy goes on, alters into something else.
you guys never dreamt of your loved ones who passed on? I have dreamt of my grandma, i was in a difficult situation and she gave me advice.
they are definitely around us, watching after us.
R65, if you really believe this then you have to know that it was your subconciousness which created an image of your grandma in your sleep that gave you "advice" not a ghost
I like that thought r64
You do realize, R61, that when you claim that atheists act just like religious people, you're actually insulting the religious? You're essentially saying, "Look, they're dogmatic assholes, too, just like we are!"
At the risk of being one of those awful atheists, "Atheists are just like the religious" is something that deeply stupid people say.
Atheists don't claim they know the secrets of the universe based on stories from Bronze Age nomads. Atheists don't fly airplanes into buildings to murder thousands of people based on their belief. Atheists don't demand that their fellow atheists give them a tenth of their income to build cathedrals. Atheists don't prevent the teaching of verifiable facts because those facts contradict their beliefs.
And on the atheists side, what really compares? The fact that Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens say mean things?
[R53] Sorry I was off the board. I don't follow any religion. I consider myself a spiritual person.
Thank you for answering R69. I'm happy to hear that, because that makes your experience more objective to me and not a religiously fueled fantasy.
My experience was 35 years ago, and if there was a lot written about life after death or near death experiences, I was unaware of it. I went into therapy and eventually went into a group where people had had a similar experience.
What I found is that it's like a story with the same basic elements but it's been rewritten over and over, different each time, but still containing the basics. Just like a plot we've seen in hundreds of movies but the characters and circumstances are different but the root is the same: David v. Goliath, the underdog who wins the race, etc.
I've done some reading on NDE since and recently found this.
I wouldn't argue anyone's different beliefs. I can only relate what happened to me. I will say most of the people in my group had not been particularly religious or believed in an afterlife before their experience.
That's great because I rarely hear about gay people experiencing stuff like that.
They say the low frequencies of our brainwaves match the frequencies of the Earth's natural harmonics or vibrations. So I think the Earth's harmonic field is kinda like a collective energy source for humans. That's how we're in tune with the Earth and why we should protect it, blah, blah, blah.
There were gay people in my group. People from all walks of life have experienced it. The thing is, a lot of people don't talk about it. One of the people in the group, when his grandfather died, they found a diary where he recounted an entire NDE he had when he was a young man. He never told anyone.
What if we're all video game characters... like, this is GTA V, and some little twat is at the controls fucking up your life... and soon he's going to get bored and have you jump out of your car while you're driving down the highway or something.
R76, did you see your life flashing by, during the experience?
[R78] Actually no, though I have heard others say that they did. I did see my body from above, but I didn't recognize myself immediately.
The most amazing story I heard was from a woman who was in an awful car accident. She found herself floating in a cave, and the driver was floating in the cave with her. Then the driver floated away and she couldn't see him any longer. When she came back, she found out that the driver was killed.
When I came back, a doctor came in and I said, I think you're the person who said it's okay, we're going to help you. He was that person, but I had never seen him, he said it as I was going unconscious.
Hell no, I do not believe. I came from nowhere and my atoms will go back into the ether when I die.
There was just a new article recently that talked about how, as a last ditch survival effort, your brain burns all of its remaining fuel (oxygen) in one burst. For a short while, if they looked at your brain in a MRI, it would just look like the whole thing was lit up. It produces a state of 'hyperconsciousness'. You perceive more. You remember more. You attempt to form some connection between the data points to save yourself. Explains a lot of the NDE.
BTW, what we call death is really just the beginning of the process, but it's the point of no return with current technology. In reality, it takes another 24 to 48 hours after that for complete cell death in the brain and for all electrical activity to stop.
Yes because nothing I can think of ever ceases to exist, it just takes different forms. A burning log doesn't disappear, it becomes ash and smoke. So when you die your body turns to dust or ash, I believe your soul or inner being, doesn't cease to exist either, but I do believe that it might take on another form totally foreign to how it is now, just as our body does. So as we have no memory of a time before birth, our soul might have no memory or awareness of our present life.
[R81] No, you don't have a brain surge - rats do. This hasn't been tested in humans. Also it's been shown that people on monitors who later reported NDEs (or I guess in my case DEs) have absolutely no brain activity at all.
I know in humans, having been at some death beds, there is a surge of physical activity often before dying. A person who hasn't spoken in hours will suddenly speak or sit up.
I don't know what will happen to you when you die. I only know what happened to me and to other people, and people who have had experiences of danger or whatever where they felt guided by something outside of them. I am sure there are many explanations for these phenomenons. In the last 35 years I have spoken to many people about this, including doctors and scientists. The people I have spoken with in science cannot explain everything that happens in NDE and readily admit they don't have all the answers. What happened to me was very real. It wasn't a dream or dream-like, or a flight of fantasy.
R8, you're awfully defensive for someone who thinks he knows the truth. Don't BS us with the call for proof. If you really knew what was going on, you'd be a lot less overwrought about this issue.
[R84] It's interesting, R84. I find that on amazon.com or imdb.com or on message boards, people become very defensive and, using your word, overwrought about this issue. It's a very threatening concept - not just this concept but anything remotely spiritual or metaphysical. I can understand anger over a lot of organized religions and really being critical because some or most of them are so exclusionary. They're not about love or acceptance and think they have the answers - right.
We're free to believe and discuss different beliefs and ideas about death and spirituality and if there's a God or some sort of force in the universe, a universal truth. Unlike religion that tells you this is true and you must believe it, I don't think we're going to know the real answers to some of this. These are open subjects, so why people become so incensed when anyone says they believe in life after death or NDEs etc. is beyond me. It may turn out that it doesn't happen for everyone. No one knows. So I say think about it, talk about it.
Why do dying people often call out for their dead parents or other deceased relatives?
Where do all of the missing socks go?
Our bodies are like cars driving us around to our destinations. It takes us where we need to go and then it eventually stops working. When that happens, it's time to move on from this dimension.
We never die, we simply transform and acquire a new vehicle for the next plane of existence.
You can't even second-act anymore.
To be honest, the prospect of seeing all the assholes in my past again frightens me. Could I opt out of an afterlife?
I've always had strange things happening I can't explain. It runs in families. My mother had it too. And now my sis-in-law took her 14-year-old to a psychic retreat where they pick people out of the audience and read them. One of the psychics picked him and said he has a gift and should read some books and take classes. So I asked him later, and he confirmed that he does "see things" sometimes.
yeah there is I think they come from somewhere near south east asia
I meant the reptilian race
I'm glad they won't be letting the jews in.
I am a frequent visitor to www.nderf.org. It features accounts of near death experiences and is updated regularly, so the number of accounts is in the thousands. I find it extremely interesting - and comforting - to read these experiences from people of wildly varying backgrounds and causes of death.
R31, It was called Afterlife.
I ended up falling asleep partway into it. I find the subject interesting, but the documentary was pretty boring. I was mostly turned off by all of the religious connotations since I'm a non believer.
I believe it exists.
There is no heaven, hell or afterlife. Once you die, you die and the living take over until they die. And so on, and so on.
Years ago, before the internet network, nurses couldn't talk about what they saw regarding ghosts. Now, they do. There's a site, allnurses.com that one can go to. When the page comes on, then type Ghosts in the search bar. There are fascinating entries from women young and old.
Other cultures have their own beliefs about the afterlife. One is that a relative comes to pick you up, and is your spirit guide.
Personally, I have been taught the Christian way. So, yes I believe in an afterlife.
lol, you were "taught" the Xtian way, so you "believe" in an afterlife?
Must be a wonderful, lovely thing to be a sheeple and never have to think for yourself. God, sometimes I wish I was as intellectually stunted as you all. Life would be so much easier!
[R101]And it must be a wonderful, lovely thing to be so intellectually superior and know it all.
I definitely believe in reincarnation.
In my next life, I'm coming back as a carnation.
It's like a big amusement park.
Price of admission is even worse than Disneyland, though.
I don't want to die, ever. I'm ok with being raptured though.
R81, omg, if it takes 24-48 hours for complete cell death in the brain...does that mean there's any shred that you can be somehow aware of what's happening to you? I always had this fear that when we die, we're trapped in our bodies. Like a deep, deep coma. We can't physically feel anything but our brains are working. Until we're embalmed, or there's an autopsy.
Please tell me that I'm just an idiot and that this isn't possible.
r107, you are trapped in your body NOW.
Mormons believe you spend eternity with your family. That sounds like HELL to me.
R107, we are not our bodies. They are vehicles enabling our physical existence within three dimensions on this earthbound plane.
We forget who we really are at childbirth because that is necessary for growth. It is part of a natural evolution and our physical death is perfectly normal when our time here has ended.
We then move on to another dimension where we are most comfortable and able to continue our growth. We are eternal beings.
r110 -- Then please explain population growth?
Abahdee, abahdee, abahdee...... that's all folks!
What's the name of the documentary, OP?
Read stories on the nurses' website posted upthread. What is this dark figure that they talk about that appears before someone dies, that the person dying reacts in terror to? A grim reaper? A devil, meaning the person was wicked? What do the believers on here think?
No, but shouldn't this have been a poll? I imagine more Dataloungers disbelieve in the afterlife. Hope so anyway, since I'd like to think we're above average in intellect. Not a high bar in the U.S. but still...
I want to be unconscious when I die. I think your brain forces you back up in a panic regardless, hence reports of people almost comatose suddenly sitting up screaming, which some people interpret as the 'arrival of the grim reaper' in stories posted online.
So for those of us that don't believe, at what point if you were dying and having a NDE would you start to believe, if it turns out we're wrong and there is something else? Is it like in a dream where you can't control whether or not you believe, you're more of an observer as your brain peters out?
If you believe in an afterlife, do you have opinions on the following questions:
Do all forms of life have an afterlife?
If not, when in evolution did the afterlife come into being? Did Neanderthals have an afterlife? Home Erectus?
Someone above mentioned we forget who we are at childbirth. This implies ensoulment. At what point does this happen? Conception? A certain point in the womb? First breath?
Do you believe in love after life?
What if the dark tunnel is a vagina... and the bright white light at the end is when you come out into the doctor's hands?
Can I ask the people who believe in an after-life, why do you need or want there be an after-life?