Are straight people attracted to stereotypical gay people?
What I mean is, I have yet to meet a straight man who lusts after a butch lesbian or a straight chick who finds a flaming gay man hot. That is because they are opposite sex attracted.
Does it not make perfect sense that a same sex attracted individual would not find someone who looks and acts like the opposite sex attractive? If I was attracted to masculine buzz cut women, I would be straight!
Are you trying to find some rationalization for why "stereotypically gay," men are just wrong for supposedly "looking" like women?
r3, no, not at all. I am just puzzled at why so many gay and lesbians impersonate traits and appearances of the opposite sex
Many straight men are attracted to, and marry, butch straight women. They are a dime a dozen where I grew up (the Netherlands). It's not much of a stretch to think they could potentially be attracted to a butch lesbian. Likewise straight women who like androgynous/femmy men.
I know exactly what you mean OP.
There was some study a few years back about female sexuality and they are very into being "wanted." that may be why they don't tend to fall madly in lust with people unattracted to women (ie, obviously gay men).
Conversely, men are very into visuals sexually, and are attracted to stereotypical gender displays. So many gay men love so-called "manly men" and many straight men love so-called "girly-girls."
[quote] I am just puzzled at why so many gay and lesbians impersonate traits and appearances of the opposite sex.
They don't impersonate. They are who they are. If you don't like it, don't associate with them. Easy breezy.
Can someone explain to me why losers on chat boards think they's just that clever?
Honestly, can someone help me, I'm just so confused.
r7, can see his flames from heaven
Just FF this troll.
It's a good thing yours are keeping hell alight.
Newbie here, what does the FF do?
OP, go hang out at L Chat or Afterellen.
Everyone is different. Attempts to squeeze attraction into some kind of formula are foolish.
I'm Dutch too (man). It's true that a lot of women here give off a butch vibe, for instance once they reach a certain age, they like to cut their hair real short and dye it red; they love wearing huge, 'difficult' looking glasses and they tend to henpeck their husbands. Go visit that Tumblr blog Loldutchpeople and you'll see what I mean.
I think a lot of straight men are attracted to soft butches or as they are commonly referred to, tomboys. But these women are thin and conventionally attractive, probably not the Chaz Bono lookalikes you're thinking of.
" I am just puzzled at why so many gay and lesbians impersonate traits and appearances of the opposite sex"
Because they're masculine women and feminine men, and they're being true to themselves. Duh.
What the fuck has that got to do with attracting straight people?
My point r17 is as a same sex attracted lady I am attracted to women feminine women!!!
What r7 said.
[quote]Many straight men are attracted to, and marry, butch straight women. They are a dime a dozen where I grew up (the Netherlands).
This is also true of where I grew up (Wisconsin). If you didn't know better, you'd think the women of my hometown were about 85% lesbian. In addition, yes, OP, I can think of at least 2 straight guys I've known who were totally turned on by butch dykes. Unusual perhaps, but hardly unheard of, and no, I don't think those guys are really gay men.
And good lord, who DOESN'T know some straight chick who's always crushing on so-gay-it's-visible-from-space gay men?
Why are you so obsessed with other people's gender presentations, anyway (because we all know you are the same silly twat who has posted a million threads on this topic)? Are you really so insecure and fucked up about your identity as a femme lez who digs other femme lesbians that you need the whole world to agree that bull dykes are icky and a different species from you? Live and let live, sugar pie.
[quote]My point [R17] is as a same sex attracted lady I am attracted to women feminine women!!!
Goody for you, Esmerelda, but what on earth makes you think every other "same sex attracted lady" in the world has to like exactly the same kind of women you like? What a stupid expectation.
With the younger gays and lesbians, I am in the majority with this view
"I'm at least thirty pounds overweight, but I try to distract from that fact by shopping in the juniors section (because while I may not be an icky butch, I'm still a cheap lesbian with no fashion sense!) and wearing too much (inexpertly applied) makeup. My much vaunted femininity does not include the ability to keep my shitty rented house clean or to show ladylike restraint in the face of vodka coolers."
Some straight dudes are attracted to men with feminine features or soft features, which is why transgender male-to-female persons often date and encounter men who identify as straight. moreover, tranny porn is supported by heterosexual-identified men, not gay/bi dudes. further, heterosexual men are the clients of ladyboys and tranny prostitutes.
r22, a bulldyke who resents the fact that girls she fancies do not want her masculine ass!
What "younger" gays and lesbians are you hanging out with, R21? Based on young queers I know in several US cities, you're either on Mars or in some fundamentalist backwater where gay kids have to stay invisible to survive.
r23, that is because straight men are attracted to femininity. Gay men do not find flamers or trannies desirable
And you wonder why so many gays and lesbians crush on straights!!
Uh, R1, R4, R9, R18, R21, R24, R26? We get that you're a homophobic troll.
Hit the flames & freaks button and move on, folks. Nothing to see here but putrid roadkill.
r28 likes to censor those he disagrees with! Fascist !
My straight bro friend says if he were to go for a dude, it would be a dude like Emile Hirsch. I Googled his pic and looked at my friend like "okay, dude." We came to the conclusion that straight dudes are most apt to find feminine dudes with soft features attractive. Emile Hirsch by no means is transgender looking but he is not very masculine-featured. He has softer male features, longer hair, and seems sort of gentle in demeanor. He is not a square-jawed jock type with a buff muscular bod. Gay and bi guys like masculinity in males, physically and demeanor.
Gay and bi guys like masculinity in males, physically and demeanor.
And real gay or bi women like femininity, physically and demeanor
[quote][R28] likes to censor those he disagrees with! Fascist !
Such irony, coming from someone who thinks she is the arbiter of who's a "real" lesbian or gay man.
I'm a very femme woman primarily attracted to very butch females. Masculinity as expressed by a female gets me hot.Masculinity as expressed by males is interesting and frequently nice to look at but it doesn't excite me. My sexual orientation is to women. My erotic identity is for glorious, sexy butches. What difference is it to the gay police what turns me on? We're queer because we're queer.
I think some femme lesbians are upset that other femme lesbians might be paired up with butch lesbians. Hence the seething and accusations of lesbians trying to "act straight." Get over it. Some women are naturally masculine, and some lesbians-- femme or butch are attracted to butch women
[quote]Newbie here, what does the FF do?
Nothing. It used to signal the webmaster that someone was posting threats or homophobic rants. Instead, morons hit the "Flames & Freaks" link for anything posted that they don't agree with. As a result of the fools who announce "Hit the flames & freaks button" it is ignored by the webmaster. They should remove it since it's useless.
Go suck a dick op.
If I found ALL of the traits that my spouse possesses in a woman I MIGHT want to date her to see how I would react to her. However, I'm sure that will never happen.
r33, you are right. I will go to a masculine affluent man!!!
r33, is a butch dyke fronting!!!
Of course us straight men aren't attracted to stereotypical butch lesbians because they are unfeminine and unattractive! Duh!
Is ANYONE attracted to OP?
A lot of ugly bulldykes on this thread. I like my women femme and pretty
FF entire thread for high moronics.
Being gay is not about emulating the opposite sex!
I'm straight woman and while I don't look "butch" (I am thin, wear make up and have long hair) I have always had masculine personality and I have always been exclusively attracted to feminine men. Macho guys are big turn-off. So yes, I am attracted to stereotypical gay men (as long as they arent the bitchy, narcissistic type). I tend to end up dating a lot of bisexual guys. No interest toward women, although many seem to think I must be lesbian with the way I carry myself. I know some other straight/bi women like myself, it's not common but we exist.
You are a crazy closet-case defender OP. CRAAAAZY!
(not even American, are you?)
r48, you are the exception.
I know straight gals who LOVE nelly men, LURVE them
Have you never met a gay guy's female best friend who's clearly in love with him? These gay guys don't tend to be dudebros, OP.
I hate the "feminine lez" troll. She's as bad as the anti-fem gay men. Just fuck off you useless ass-kisser. Straight homophobes hate you just as much as those "butch" lezzes, and all the makeup and heels in the world won't change that.
I naturally pass for straight all the time, but I love and respect my gender-non-conforming friends. United we stand, divided we fall.
I agree with r53.
r53, you say that, but everyone knows there is a hierarchy of hate for most homophobes. yeah, they may dislike all bi/gay people, but they especially hate feminine men and masculine women. In fact, many of them will say that outright. Doesn't make it right, but let's not pretend there is equal hate for all bi/gay people.
Is "fem lez" a Log Cabinette? A GOProuder? A Randian libertarian asshat? A tea bagger? Which brand of Daddy-worshiping, self-loathing, sycophantic conformity does this backstabbing nutcase subscribe to?
You're delusional, R55. How long have you been on this earth? You sound very, very naive.
"Although studies have shown that gay and lesbian
persons are confronted with different levels of minority
stress, it is not clear why some of them are more affected
than others. This is notable, because homosexuality,
unlike race or physical handicaps, is usually understood
as a concealable stigma (Herek & Capitanio, 1996),
which implies that gay and lesbian persons can avoid
being stigmatized by not disclosing their sexual orien-
tation. It may be, however, that for some the stigma
of homosexuality is less concealable than for others.
This may especially be true for homosexual people
who are gender-atypical or gender-nonconforming
(Bailey, 1999; Brooks, 2000; Wyss, 2004), a condition
that is more prevalent in homosexual than heterosexual
persons, especially during childhood (Bailey & Zucker,
1995). Gender nonconformity is the expression of char-
acteristics that are socially and culturally associated
with the opposite gender (Bailey & Zucker, 1995). Given
the strict norms guarding gender conformity, gender-
atypical homosexual persons are more likely targets
for discrimination or other negative experiences than
homosexual persons who do not openly deviate from
Stigma surrounding breaking gender norms may be
present during the early stages of one’s development,
increasing the likelihood of developing more problems
in psychosocial well-being in adulthood (Zucker,
1994). Adult mental health may also be affected by
current gender nonconformity. It is an open question
as to what extent homosexuality-related discrimination
is due to someone’s homosexuality or gender noncon-
formity (cf. Freund & Blanchard, 1983, who found that
gender-atypicality and not homosexuality explained the
distant relationship between fathers and their homosex-
ual sons; see also Isay, 1989)"
See Gender Nonconformity, Homophobia, and Mental Distress in Latino Gay
and Bisexual Men
Theo G. M. Sandfort
HIV Center for Clinical and Behavioral Studies, New York State Psychiatric Institute
and Columbia University
Rita M. Melendez
Human Sexuality Studies and the Center for Research on Gender & Sexuality, San Francisco
Rafael M. Diaz
Cesar Chavez Institute and Professor of Ethnic Studies, San Francisco State University. Journal of Sex Research (2007)
I have an interesting take on this. I'm not that old and have seen OP's scenario happen in both orientations.
I know more men who turned out gay, though, who would seduce every pretty girl they saw when younger--always initiated by the gay guys. They were obviously attracted enough to maintain erections because I know that at least two of them would regularly take virginities. Their girls always seemed happy to have the attention, though these guys clearly acted "stereotypically gay." As far as I know, none of them so much as touch women any longer.
And as for a straight man being attracted to a gay woman with buzz cut and all, I actually saw it happen just a few weeks ago. The guy was ruined over it.
I don't think it happens as often this way, because it's still a woman...often unfortunately seen as a "failed woman." Biological men have the upper hand in society. They just do.
"[childish epithet posted by a bigoted tool] men were more likely than
non-[childish epithet posted by a bigoted tool] men to report having been sexually
abused as a child, verbally/physically abused by relatives, and having been raped by relatives and
or by a lover. [childish epithet posted by a bigoted tool] men also reported more experiences with homophobia than non-[childish epithet posted by a bigoted tool] men. Gay and bisexual Latino men who con-
sidered themselves [childish epithet posted by a bigoted tool] also had higher levels of mental distress. These higher levels of mental distress in [childish epithet posted by a bigoted tool] men seemed to primarily result from more experiences of homophobia, as suggested by the out comes of our mediation analysis."
"We examined whether, due to men’s desire to reject stereotypically feminine traits in themselves, a masculinity threat would elicit negative affect toward [childish epithet posted by a bigoted tool], but not masculine gay men. Fifty-three male undergraduates from the United States received bogus feedback that they had either a “masculine” or “feminine” personality before rating affect toward two “types” of gay men: [childish epithet posted by a bigoted tool] and masculine. Results were consistent with the notion that defensive reactions target groups stereotyped as having the specific traits perceivers wish to deny in themselves: masculinity threat selectively increased negative affect toward [childish epithet posted by a bigoted tool], but not masculine, gay men. Thus, gay men who exhibit feminine traits may be at particular risk from men whose masculinity is threatened."
See Defensive Reactions to Masculinity Threat: More Negative Affect Toward [childish epithet posted by a bigoted tool] (but not Masculine) Gay Men
Emily Weinberg (2007)
But, R60's quote sounds at least feasible for Latino men. The "machismo" is heavily stressed in cultures therein. Like, really stressed. There have been many anthropological studies of it. Discussing the sexual abuse issue will only cause a greater stir of ruthless opinions, insults, and name-calling on this thread.
r62, I would not expect you to understand or value scholarly research and authority. You just like to make erroneous stuff up, dude.
the OP of this thread is a whackjob for days. and likely lives in europe, given the timing of her postings.
I met a guy yesterday who was working at a store I went to. He came in wearing shorts and a tank top, and he was so muscular, I was sure he was a dancer (I was at a Starbucks near the campus of a university known for its performing arts programs). And indeed he was. He was utterly beautiful, charming, personable. Eminently fuckable, IOW.
After we chatted, I couldn't help but think how there are people out in the world who, because they consider themselves "masculine" or "bras," would turn this beautiful guy down because he was more than a little FMN8.
What a loser you'd have to be to reject this guy.
R66, it is a matter if personal taste and attraction. It is okay for people to have individual preferences than you have. Tolerance.
Tolerance includes accepting people who don't gender-conform and not trumpeting those who do as superior, more desirable or more palatable to homophobes.
This thread and the thoughts it expresses are a glaring example of intolerance. R66's post is not.
[quote] After we chatted, I couldn't help but think how there are people out in the world who, because they consider themselves "masculine" or "bras," would turn this beautiful guy down because he was more than a little FMN8.
[quote] What a loser you'd have to be to reject this guy.
Don't worry: hot trumps femme.
I think Michelle Rodriguez is pretty butch, and I know straight guys who are attracted to her. And in college, I knew a guy who was totally into the wrestler Chyna (who I thought was a MTF tranny).
PS: Matt Bomer is stereotypically gay and he has a large female fanbase (both figuratively and literally).
r71, in what way is he stereotypical?
[quote] in what way is he stereotypical?
1. Yellow Skin
2. Womanly Butt
yellow skin is a gay stereotype?
OP, go away. No one cares what you think.
Straight men may be secretly attracted to some gay men that have feminine vibes, but they rarely want to be publicly associated with them. Straight men tend to be viscerally annoyed or embarrassed by feminine males, sometimes violently. Many will befriend masculine gay dudes as bros because such guys are perceived as manly and not embarrassing to be seen in public with.
Most men don't want to be seen around non-masculine men. Like dogs, men tend to run in packs, and they want to be associated with manly Alpha Males. Heterosexual men especially are atuned to the masculinity of the dudes they hang with. I hear straight dudes say that they are cool being buds with gay or bi dudes who are masculine, just as long as "they act like normal dudes."
R77, same with straight chicks and femme lesbians
true, r78. For all the talk about women being more tolerant, heterosexual women don't exactly flock to hang out and associate with very masculine women either. At least men are more honest about their aversion to feminine men.
R79 Who do so many women have gay male buddies?
r81, because flaming gay men WORSHIP women!!
I thought it was because there have much more in common with women than men and women just like a bit of diversity in their friends.
r81, women rarely are close to masculine gay men and almost never close to bisexual men. They like girly guys because they are amused by their femininity and non-normative gender behavior. They tend to find mainstream masculine gay guys threatening or boring.
Women often think of fully masculine gay/bi men who are attractive as a "waste."
Mick Jagger, androgynous male, never has had a problem attracting women.
Bruno Mars, kind of fem looking straight man, has mostly women fans.
These guys are known to be "straight", but are not, strictly speaking,
macho men. But they attract the opposite sex.
They are exceptionally rich and famous rock/pop stars.
r85 Is it so much straight women avoiding them or is it that masculine gay men are avoiding/indifferent to women? I think it is mostly femme gay men that initiate friendship with straight women. Be it simply going to places and having hobbies that will force them to interact with straight women.
good point, r89. I think completely masculine gay/bi men have the same attitude with women as their straight brethren, with respect to platonic friendship.
Then what's the attraction to Bill Kaulitz by both straight men and women?
The more masculine the dude, the less likely he has close platonic female friends. Masculine dudes may have female friends, but there is usually a gender gap between them that keeps them from being best friends or hanging buddies. Masculine bisexual and gay guys are very much like heterosexual dudes in their interests, activities, and hobbies, and therefore, tend not to find much in common with females that would make them best friends or hanging friends. They often have affection for their female friends, but the gender gap keeps them from being best friends.
Maybe you might want to limit that to straight women, R92? I have plenty of masculine straight male friends.
I am a lipstick les and I have straight female friends, gay male friends(mostly masculine) and straight male friends and some lesbians friends
Do lipstick lesbians tend to be friends with heterosexual women more than masculine lesbians?
Do black patten leather shoes really reflect up?
r96, Of course! i have nothing in common with butches. I have everything in common with straight girls except the sexual attraction for men
interesting r98. that similar reasoning to masculine gay/bi dudes who say they hang with straight dudes because they can't relate to feminine or stereotypical gay dudes.
I like my ladies feminine and nice!
God, you're an asshole, OP.
For the record, I am a very feminine bisexual lipstick female (dominant in bed, though, which you'd no doubt consider "masculine", as you're so hung up on gender roles), who pretty much exclusively is attracted to a) soft butch women and b) submissive feminine straight or predominately straight men. I guess that makes me a gender transgressor by your standards, since I'm not fancying the "right" kind of woman (feminine, under your terms) or man (masculine, under your terms).
All I know is when I was (much) younger,I was a flaming queen,and most of my sexual partners were "straight" or "bi" macho men.Yes,they were attracted to my feminine characteristics,and that was FINE by me!But,as Ive aged,I encounter more derision and patronizing from the gay world than I ever did the straight world,and Im not nearly as nelly as I was.Go figure.
We didnt need words,we had FACES!
[quote] I encounter more derision and patronizing from the gay world than I ever did the straight world,and Im not nearly as nelly as I was.Go figure.
That's because you were fucking the exceptions. How can you be less nelly? Were you "performing" more back then?
[quote] I encounter more derision and patronizing from the gay world than I ever did the straight world
That is only because the straights laugh at you behind your back. I'm sorry, but it's the truth. You are deluding yourself if you believe differently.