Give Back? Yes, It's Time For The 99% To Give Back To The 1%
I so agree!
[quote]It’s time to gore another collectivist sacred cow. This time it’s the popular idea that the successful are obliged to “give back to the community.” That oft-heard claim assumes that the wealth of high-earners is taken away from “the community.” And beneath that lies the perverted Marxist notion that wealth is accumulated by “exploiting” people, not by creating value–as if Henry Ford was not necessary for Fords to roll off the (non-existent) assembly lines and Steve Jobs was not necessary for iPhones and iPads to spring into existence.
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Here's the plan: the bottom 50% will start boiling the tar while the 49% above them rip open the feather pillows.
I give, quite a lot actually. I do not give back, because I never took anything in the first place.
I am amazed that someone could actually write something like this or even think it. It is shocking. (I'm not American so don't really encounter similar attitudes or even less extreme versions of it)
The asshole who wrote that says: "I defend laissez-faire capitalism, using Ayn Rand's Objectivism."
It's just the traditional libertarian bullshit about how the rich earned their millions with entirely no help from anyone else...as if a functioning society was unnecessary for their accumulation of obscene amounts of money.
Who are you talking to R3/R4?
I can't stand it when people keep relating "creating value" or "creating jobs" to the rich.
They manufactures, they make things and provide services, if there's no one to buy these stuff, they are useless. Also there will be no jobs if there's no one buying their product.
Let me try again...
The asshole who wrote that ARTICLE says: "I defend laissez-faire capitalism, using Ayn Rand's Objectivism."
THAT ARTICLE is just the traditional libertarian bullshit about how the rich earned their millions with entirely no help from anyone else...as if a functioning society was unnecessary for their accumulation of obscene amounts of money.
My maid did more work in the last 8 hours than bill Gates and Warren Buffet did in their entire lives.
Right on R8, she also assumed a lot of personal risk, carried a lot of debt, paid a lot of salaries, and employed thousands of other people.
Well I'm talking ABOUT the guy who wrote that article, R5 and TO anyone interested enough in reading my comment.
The 3 that need to be dealt with are the Koch brothers and Murdoch. Their security must be insane.
So, libertarian idiot (r2/r5/r9), how much more should the 1% be rewarded? At what point are they hauling in enough? 100 times a laborer? 1,000 times?
Should they simply not ever contribute anything to society because they do us the favor of offering slave wages for that business they started (with their daddy's millions)?
r8 ahem, how much are you paying per hour, your maid?
If libertarians really believed their social evolution / survival of the fittest stuff then they would believe that wealth should not be inheritable. Every individual should have to start at zero to accurately judge their 'worth' in contributing to society. Inheriting wealth, having better schools, any advantage conferred by birth status is in effect 'fixing the market' and these guys believe in a free and unfettered market, right?
Bill Gates and Warren Buffet took NO risks (except the risk of jail over their numerous illegal behaviors).
Well, R12 you are quite simple. My company, family owned, employs over 500 people. The lowest paid person in the company (hourly secretarial type) makes roughly $31/year. The highest paid hourly employee (without a college degree) makes roughly $75k. Management (salaried with degrees) all make over $125k.
Every person has company paid complete healthcare, paid time off, tuition assistance, adoption assistance, and eldercare options. At this moment, we have three generations of one family working at our company. We have never laid off one single person due to economy and have not changed their salaries by one cent. My family absorbs the hits of the economy because we can. Over the past 10 years, we have had one, YES ONE, person resign from our company and it was because their spouse moved out of state.
Yes, my family is rewarded quite well when times are good, but we absorb all of the burden when times are bad so our employees and their benefits do not change.
What have you contributed to the economy?
"Yes, my family is rewarded quite well when times are good, but we absorb all of the burden when times are bad so our employees and their benefits do not change."
No you don't. Your lawyers make sure your tax "burdens" are lessened dramatically to pass along the losses to the middle class, and the lower class who actually pay taxes. You also did not build that business you brag about. One of your parents - or grandparents - most likely worked and took some risks. But not you r16.
Let's pretend we believe you, r12. Do you really think that the 1% in general "absorbs the hits of the economy"? So when the downturn happened it was the 1% who took the brunt of it? And since the recovery started, though almost none of the gains have gone to the 99% and almost all has gone to the 1% that's because the 1% have worked that much harder while the 99% have not contributed one iota more to the economy?
You are the simple one.
$31K a year for a secretary are literally slave wages r18. She should be making $50k a year at least.
R18, yes I do. Who else do you think absorbs the hits?
R16, I'll bet I pay way, way more taxes than you can imagine. Nice try.
Of course both of you girls have bought into the bullshit and cannot fathom the fact the 1% actually contributes.
It is wonderful that your family are such responsible business owners.
However, the Kock brothers and the Walton family grind their employees into the dirt in order to increase their already obscene wealth. Does that bother you at all? It bothers me a lot.
R19, if he worked full-time he could probably get closer to $45k. However, he's currently part time by his own choice (still has healthcare and full benefits).
This facility is not in a high cost area so $ goes quite far.
R9, she also assumed a lot of personal risk?
Are you implying that those at the top assumed personal risk? How so, when they plunder/totally fail the American economy while reaping billions in bonuses.
Carried a lot of debt? The only people carrying debt are the 99%.
Paid a lot of salaries? Yes, at a whopping 10 cents an hour for off shore, and minimum wage for in shore.
And employed thousands of other people? Giving them twice the work at half the pay.
"Who else do you think absorbs the hits?"
All the people who lost their jobs. All the people who lost their life savings to foreclosed homes. All the people who gave up on ever retiring or sending their children to college, you entitled, pompous asshole.
And as a typical loser who cannot mount an actual argument to the points presented, you fabricate a straw man argument to refute. No one ever said the 1% don't contribute at all.
Grow up. Get a real job that your father didn't give you. Try to fathom what it is actually like for the 99%.
R21, I am extremely proud of what we have accomplished and that we have done it treating people with respect.
I go to bed at night knowing we have done what we can. Other people have to live with themselves. My point is not all of the 1% should be tarred with the same brush.
Selfish greedy cunts
Again R24, I'm supporting over 500 people. What about you?
"My point is not all of the 1% should be tarred with the same brush."
That's not the argument that the linked article made, however.
R16, if that's true, and I doubt that it is, your company is a total anomaly because large and/or mega corporations/banks--and that where we are as small business is being pushed out-- do NOT absorb any of the burden, and that's the entire problem in a nutshell.
[quote]Again R24, I'm supporting over 500 people. What about you?
I employed thousands at Versailles!!! The ungrateful cunts!!!
You are not "supporting" over 500 people. You (or rather the members of your family) are employing those people. Stop acting like you are Mother Theresa.
Th rich do NOT support. They think that they do but they don't.
I was surprised to learn, thanks to NY1, that out of the 10 million people who live in NYC that only 19,000 make more than 1 million dollars a year and pay 41% of the taxes.
Living here, I just assumed there were 100s of thousands of people who made more than 1 million a year. But I guess that 19,000 doesn't include those who might live in CT or NJ and work here in the city. But still, 19K is a small number.
R28, it is the argument typically made on DL.
R29, we are by no means a "large" company in terms of employees but fairly large in revenue because we make a niche product we developed from the beginning (original R&D financed with our own funds). I'm betting there are quite a few of our type of company out there.
Maybe I'm stupidly optimistic, however we have always believed being loyal inspires loyalty. It works and I cannot believe we are the only company who believes that philosophy.
R31, at the moment we are supporting. Due to economy we haven't turn an actual profit in 2 years. Again, no layoffs, no change in salary and no reduction in benefits. As things improve, you are correct.
R9/16/20/25/27 is a complete moron if he thinks that the business model he is presenting exists today. Even if what he says is partially true, it's NOT the norm.
The wealthy parasites today produce NOTHING but bullshit anymore. Financialization has given those with capital and access to financier expertise ways to skim great wealth from the system without creating any value whatsoever.
The wealthy have access to unlimited credit, leverage and low-risk, low-tax skimming operations (for example, tax codes enable hedge funds to declare income as low-tax long-term capital gains)..
Really, it's the 0.1% who gain at the expense of the rest of us.
So which is it, Libertarian idiot? "I so agree [with the article]" or "Not all of the 1% should be tarred with the same brush"?
What exactly are you looking for? Praise for being the model entrepreneur? Kudos. But your story is notable precisely because it is so unbelievably rare. (And probably untrue.)
But if you are looking to convince others that the 1% have paid more than their fair share and the 99% should be asked to sacrifice more so that the 1% can get more tax breaks you can fuck right off.
Henry Ford understood his workers had to be able to afford his cars.
The OP's quote is the biggest load of ignorant tripe I've ever read.
R37, he's not telling the truth. He continues to tweak his story so that it works, for ex., his post at R22, the secretary becomes part-time.
Forbes is just trolling for hits, right? They can't really be this stupid?
Selfish cunts. People are BORN with a responsibility. If you rich then one of them is "giving"
Back in the day people who said stupid shit like this lost their head.
I don't understand from a PR perspective why wealthy people keep fueling the fire. Just shut the fuck up, own Congress, ship jobs overseas and pay little taxes.
They want a revolt, R45, then they can impose martial law, 100% police state.
I hate assholes who think just because someone owns a business that employs people that the business owner is doing some great altruistic thing for the world. They aren't. The business owner is doing it to make money. They aren't employing people as charity to society
Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.
This thread is the product of the same troll who's been posting the "people on food stamps eat too well" threads, the same troll who posted yesterday that he admired the social benefits the North Korean government allows its citizens (the right to eat dirt), the same troll infesting threads about health care with Tea Party talking points, etc.
He's wildly wealthy and successful, yet spends six hours a day on DL? Sure. His family employs 500 people and in 10 years only one has ever moved out of state? Highly believable.
He clears cookies to evade trolldar, but can be spotted by his tendency to bump threads by agreeing with himself, especially using the misspelled phrase "here here!" Also tends to throw around the words 'faggot' and 'queens' when he feels ignored.
Pay him no mind; his life is almost certainly emptier than yours.
OP is a cookie-clearing cunt! A mug hugger!
R47, how about if we just close down then? I can afford to not work.
R51, you truly are a nasty piece of work.
R52, you are yet another clueless progressive that thinks the government will solve your woes. Good luck sweetie.
Elizabeth Warren shits bigger than R53 or the Forbes writer.
BTW, R53 probably believes he's being lynched.
[quote] I go to bed at night knowing we have done what we can
Which is rationalize your sociopathy. You have done nothing but contribute to the fall of new Rome.
You're a piece of shit.
R55, please tell me how you have done more.
[quote]Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone.
Class warfare does exist. The rich are endeavoring to make being poor illegal.
R56, you answer explicitly for yourself first. Then you get to fire the first shot, okay?
Forbes Magazine has been toilet paper for years.
R51, assumed personal risk? Bitch, please. You aren't running into that e fact burning buildings. Any "risk" you take is financial, and the bankruptcy laws/corporate shield limit your "risk". Call me when you incur wholly nondischargable debt like an Indian farmer.
As far as "supporting" anyone, the fact that you believe that demonstrates that you have no critical thinking skills. Your employees create value for you or you wouldn't have them. What did you invent, diapers? It has to be some wholly necessary product or you'd've gone bankrupt by now.
And, according to your most recent post, the sole reason you are working is plain avarice. That is fucking terrible. You must be terribly unhappy.
All in all, a fascinating look into the psychopathology of assholes with money.
Of course they're not doing it for society but that's not the point, R47.
The point is, the game is rigged, and always has been to one degree or another. But now that they don't need the middle class anymore, it's not just the poor who are getting totally screwed, it's all of us.
[quote]"The politicians are put there to give you the idea that you have freedom of choice . . . you don’t. You have no choice. You have owners. They own you. They own everything. They own all the important land. They own, and control the corporations. They’ve long since bought, and paid for the Senate, the Congress, the state houses, the city halls, they got the judges in their back pockets and they own all the big media companies, so they control just about all of the news and information you get to hear. They got you by the balls. They spend billions of dollars every year lobbying . . . lobbying, to get what they want . . . Well, we know what they want. They want more for themselves and less for everybody else, but I’ll tell you what they don’t want . . . they don’t want a population of citizens capable of critical thinking. They don’t want well informed, well educated people capable of critical thinking. They’re not interested in that . . . that doesn’t help them. That’s against their interests. That’s right. They don’t want people who are smart enough to sit around a kitchen table and think about how badly they’re getting fucked by a system that threw them overboard 30 fuckin' years ago. They don’t want that. You know what they want? They want obedient workers . . . Obedient workers, people who are just smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork. And just dumb enough to passively accept all these increasingly shittier jobs with the lower pay, the longer hours, the reduced benefits, the end of overtime and vanishing pension that disappears the minute you go to collect it, and now they’re coming for your Social Security money. They want your fuckin' retirement money. They want it back so they can give it to their criminal friends on Wall Street, and you know something? They’ll get it . . . they’ll get it all from you sooner or later cause they own this fuckin' place. It’s a big club and you ain't in it. You and I are not in The big club. By the way, it’s the same big club they use to beat you over the head with all day long when they tell you what to believe. All day long beating you over the head with their media telling you what to believe, what to think and what to buy. The table has tilted folks. The game is rigged and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. Good honest hard-working people . . . white collar, blue collar it doesn’t matter what color shirt you have on. Good honest hard-working people continue, these are people of modest means . . . continue to elect these rich cocksuckers who don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t give a fuck about you . . . they don’t give a fuck about you. They don’t care about you at all . . . at all . . . at all, and nobody seems to notice. Nobody seems to care. That’s what the owners count on. The fact that Americans will probably remain willfully ignorant of the big red, white and blue dick that’s being jammed up their assholes everyday, because the owners of this country know the truth. It’s called the American Dream cause you have to be asleep to believe it . . .”
MAMIE! Pack up the Golden Globe I won for "Julie and Julia"
(dumb film, I've never been able to sit thru the Amy Adams' scenes and now that Nora is dead I don't have to pretend to like it anymore.)
and send it to your Aunt Glenn with a nice note. Oh and why not put 10 dollars and some sucking candy in the box too. We have so much after all.
Hey, I voted for Edwards, who said "They are not going to give up the monies voluntarily. I will pursue them aggressively to the end in our courts."
r62 George Carlin?
R16, WTF do you care what a bunch of bitter, envious losers think? You have the world by the balls. No need to explain yourself to cry babies who spend all their time and energy whining instead of working to realize their own dreams. Just go about your fabulous life and flick the negative nellies off your sleeve like lint.
And still, in 2013, "The Communist Manifesto," in tone, language, sheer persuasive get-off-your-asses rhetoric, is unmatched and remains the standard that all other would-be propagandists must aspire to.
I'll leave the substantive debate to you guys (and you've demolished the troll who started this thread) but, Ayn Rand? Really?
I'm watching 'Secret Lives of the Super Rich' on CNBC and these people need to be shot & killed. Every last fucking one of them. It's beyond disgusting.
[quote]you've demolished the troll who started this thread
Oh my sides!
Who is the troll who is all up in Elizabeth Warren's pussy? Obviously someone who doesn't know her entire history.
[quote]If libertarians really believed their social evolution / survival of the fittest stuff then they would believe that wealth should not be inheritable.
And with that one moronic statement, you just proved to the whole world that you have absolutely no idea what libertarianism is all about.
Good luck in life. You're gonna need it.
The Koch brothers and Murdoch should have to give blood. All of it.
R68, they are criminals through and through, and r71 certainly doesn't evince "having a life"
Marry me [R:1].
These kill-the-successful threads always bring out the horrid, bitter queens of DL.
They aren't successful, that's why. They are simply greedy thieves. There is a difference that you clearly can't see
R76, looking through your numerous posts, I'm sorry you're so angry and bitter at life. Have you considered therapy? You're clearly not in good emotional health.
Dear rich people:
[bold]YOU LIVE ON THE SAME PLANET WE DO[/bold], whether you like it or not. Until the point that you can make "Elysium" a reality, you're kind of stuck with us. In a world where social mobility is nearly impossible, you'll have to spend more of your money to taser the rest of us into submission.
Or you could just live as a member of the community like the rest of us. Less tasering required.
I want to man the guillotines at the revolution!! Seriously, I would love to see the heads of the 1% rolling down bloody streets.
[quote]I want to man the guillotines at the revolution!! Seriously, I would love to see the heads of the 1% rolling down bloody streets.
And then what about the top 1% of the remaining 99%? Do you want to kill them too? At exactly what point do you stop your serial killing?
"R16 WTF do you care what a bunch of bitter, envious losers think? You have the world by the balls. No need to explain yourself to cry babies who spend all their time and energy whining instead of working to realize their own dreams. Just go about your fabulous life and flick the negative nellies off your sleeve like lint."
R66 - I actually agree with you but the entire frigging point is they really don't want anyone else to get anything. It is not enough that they are rich but they are annoyed with the idea of anyone else getting even their crumbs - and I know people who own apartments on Park Avenue (in the eighties) and they are the cheapest people on the planet.
They don't even act pretend to act charitable anymore, so this Forbes story and the AIG asshole's comment is not a surprise.
Actually, the successful aren't the problem, it's the ugly 1% of the 1% that are pulling the strings and stealing from he USA.