Not really the economic disaster area you've been told it is. Barbaric and violent yes. Starving, not so much.
People don't get hungry when they're doing that much meth.
OP has been there, I'm sure.
OP = Dennis Keith Rodman
I'm morbidly fascinated with the idea of visiting this hermetic, warped nation on one of those guided package tours that have been advertised recently. But I wouldn't want to pump $$ into their Kim Jong Un/military machine.
Essentially, the entire nation has no electricity. It's an entire black-out at night even during the freezing winters. The capital, Pyongyang, is eerily empty of cars and people, though there is always a traffic-maid directing traffic as if she's standing in Los Angeles rush hour.
Creepy that notorious detention Camp 22 is visible via Google Earth.
North Korea starvation is real --- at least according to North Korean defectors, including this North Korean woman on Reddit who, herself, was relatively well-off (link below). In the rural areas, some people had to eat grass to feel full. Unless you're Kim Jong Un. Then you can be an ugly, arrogant fat-ass while the rest of your nation starves.
Didn't Kim Jong-Il brainwash his people into believing he was a perfect, immortal god?
How do they reckon that belief with the fact that he, like, actually died?
OP is a moron.
When the NK regime finally implodes the monumental scale of human suffering endured by its citizens will dwarf those other sadistic regimes of the past.
We doubt that, R6
The meth addiction that's sweeping the country now is bizarre.
Meth is the opium of the people.
Any of the Vice documentaries (Youtube) filmed in North Korea will quickly prove OP wrong.
I have a friend that travels around the world for human rights organizations and as an election observer. She's been to South Korea. She's interviewed and worked with former North Koreans. She says all the terrible things you hear about North Korea are true. Including people eating grass and dirt.
Are Asian names like Kim Jong-Un backwards relative to American names? In other words, is Kim considered the surname and Jong-Un (and Jong-Il) considered the first/middle name combo?
I'm asking because my Amicanized Asian friends seem to have reversed the order. Instead of Li Ming-Wa, it's Ming-Wa Li, for example.
[quote]Are Asian names like Kim Jong-Un backwards relative to American names? In other words, is Kim considered the surname and Jong-Un (and Jong-Il) considered the first/middle name combo?
Yes, Asian names are "reversed" from Western Society.
It takes some getting used to. Just ask Ziyi Zhang ("Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon") who everyone called Zhang Ziyi cuz that's how her name was presented.
OP has clearly not been there.
OP admires North Korea because they don't waste taxpayer money on food stamps.
How big is Dennis's dick?
[quote]She says all the terrible things you hear about North Korea are true. Including people eating grass and dirt..
Yes, and that is just the beginning of the atrocities going on there. The UN is about to zero in on the prison camps in NK. Hundreds of thousands of people have been and are being tortured there everyday. They cut the babies out of pregnant women and kill them.
I think it's going to end up being the great human rights tragedy of the this decade, and probably of the 21st century.
And whose fault, seeing as how there are sanctions against N. Korea?
Anyway, you all are too quick to believe propaganda. Who made these documentaries, the CIA or the KCIA or both?
I was watching the Korean news and it had a film clip by a guy who was anti-North but also anti-new rich in the North, and I had thought, based on the presentation of Pyongyang in our media as a ghost town, that it made no sense. Until I realized, we're being primed for war with North Korea, just in case.
Bullshit, OP. I have studies North Korea extensively and it is a hell-hole.
Absolutely, R21. Entire families are apparently used as guinea pigs for chemical weapons testing.
China is fearful of the regime imploding because they'll be responsible for millions of severely warped and traumatized refugees.
OP is the biggest idiot. How about you go over there and learn to survive on cabbages and rats.
Google some North Korean defectors and you'll quickly learn that the ones born there don't even know what its like to NOT be hungry.
Do tell us more, OP.
[quote]When the NK regime finally implodes
It will explode first. The only thing that will end the NK regime is military force, likely instigated by NK.
Even China is backing away, as association with NK is damaging to the modern PRC image... and they have image issues of their own.
How this country is still allowed to exist especially in such prosperous region? Imagine the same in the centre of Europe!
Can't we send them some alley-grown rhubarb?
A little known fact: the most popular sitcom in North Korea is "Eight Grains Of Rice Is Enough."
Why can't they grow food?
OP is that stupid long-winded Communist we had here a couple of years ago.
The Workers World Party just LOVES North Korea!
Why is it that wherever Communism takes hold, the bodies pile up and food does not?
I don't understand how Pyongyang is supposedly a city of 2.5 million people, but there's never anybody photographed on the streets? And tourists who have visited always comment on the same thing: The streets are eerily empty. Where are the people?
They're all inside practicing for the Mass Games.
A few reasons R29:
1) China. If they don't want NK fucked with, NK isn't going to be fucked with.
2) No natural resources. There is nothing substantial there for multinationals to exploit, so the media outlets they own don't ever beat the war drum.
3) The fact that the region IS stable makes it more likely that NK won't be bothered. If a nuclear NK was within reach of striking Israel, it would be a whole other ballgame.
4) It doesn't fall into the "War on Terror" media-industrial complex paradigm. Commies aren't the big distraction/scare anymore - Muslims are.
OP,being snarky and skeptical about all kinds of things on DL is one thing but trying to deny something like malnutrition in North Korea is something else entirely. Don`t get me wrong,I`m not saying that you are like that at all but eventually some jerk might post a thread like `Holocaust? Never happened` just as much.
OP is a fucking idiot.
The conditions in those camps are not simply "bad." They're worse. People eating corn out of shit like some old DL joke, animals, newborns slaughtered. It's absolutely unimaginable.
Watch "Camp 14: Total Control Zone" on Netflix. It's got the only footage we know of from inside those camps, from a guard who defected.
They imprison not just one person in the camps, but every single member of the three surrounding generations of their family. Everyone goes, forever. Children are born and raised inside and know only that life, which was the case for the main subject profiled in "Camp 14".
[quote]I don't understand how Pyongyang is supposedly a city of 2.5 million people, but there's never anybody photographed on the streets? And tourists who have visited always comment on the same thing: The streets are eerily empty. Where are the people?
Only government and military officials have access to or can afford automobiles. They occasionally speed up and down those empty roads, sometimes killing pedestrians. Otherwise there's no traffic, anywhere.
There's also the power cut - only having electricity certain times of the day - but I don't remember the details behind that.
R40, I'll have to watch this Camp 14 documentary.
I understand that few North Koreans have access to cars and electricity (except the privileged few who are government officials or family). But still, presumably these 2.5 million people have lives where they work or go to school or have a need to walk around somewhere. Are they just indoors all of the time? Is the 2.5 million population estimate inaccurate?
North Korea and Russia are friendly as well. Many North Koreans live and work in Russia.
China invests hundreds of millions every year.
People were actually starving to death. We saw the video of the kid smoking and being put in an orphanage by the parents. We saw people eating grass and too weak from hunger to go on. They're just hiding it better. They're purposefully starving out the unwanted, really.
Thank you for correcting the terrible misinformation rampant about our wonderful and prosperous country.
The hunger situation, indeed, has improved considerably since the successful campaign to get our Koreans to develop a taste for very lean human meat, rather than their natural preference for something more marbled.
Our "Soy Is People" Campaign is a gift of the Dear Leader!
There is a very prosperous elite in North Korea. They fly a rickety assed old Boeing to Macau to launder (mostly counterfeit) money in the casinos and use it to get anything and everything the elite wants. Absolutely zero of the drug/counterfeit revenue makes it down to the people.
R35, Where would you go at night? There are a few parks and ice skating is available during the winter. There is even less to do outside the main city. Most North Koreans are focused on very basic survival, as death from malnutrition is common.
From a fascinating article at the London Review of Books (full article at link):
The sorry truth is that North Korea’s state of political undeath suits the most powerful players in the game better than any alternative. Until twenty years ago ... For the United States, the prospect of another nation to rebuild, with Iraq and Afghanistan barely under control, is nauseating. For China, the removal of the North Korean buffer would force a drastic renegotiation of the strategic balance in the Asia-Pacific. Only one group would benefit unconditionally from change in the North: the North Korean people. But the rest of the world has always found more important things to be taken account of in North Korea than the lives of its inhabitants.
R41, many NK men are forced to work for the government in bureacratic jobs, however, the government doesn't pay them. They're still required to show up.
Which leaves the women to work to get money to live. It's become so bad that the women now consider the men to be drones, unable to contribute and just another useless mouth to feed. This has become so common it's completely upended the social fabric of the country.
I really think that China sees NK as an irritant, perhaps even moreso than South Korea or the US. I doubt it's even about maintaining the buffer for them - it's about not wanting millions of NKs flooding into China should the regime collapse. China would likely prefer the gentle fall of NK and for the south to take over, so long as north remains demilitarized. NK falling also means that the Americans can leave the Korean peninsula, which I'm sure China would want. Far more important to China than military domination is economic security, which is why Taiwan remains an independent entity. There is rattling, yes, but a war with Taiwan may cause the collapse of the communist government in China. Taiwan also invests far too much in China to jeopardize that relationship.
Beware of propaganda, that's all I'm saying. You know the Brits filmed fake "atrocities" and ran them in Canadian theaters to get Canada to fight the Boers in South Africa. Our military is doing this all the time.
Oh, R51. You are tiresome. And your skepticism is downright dangerous.
OP, if you're making this statement based on what you saw in Pyongyang, you need to realize that it is a Potemkin village. Everything there is planned and staged, and if you saw people sipping cappucinos in a sidewalk cafe, they were actors. Even if you are North Korean, you have to have a special permit to visit Pyongyang. The average North Korean will never get to visit their capital. It is a showpiece for the regime and nothing more.
Here's an example of how bad things are in North Korea. When they were having their great famine and people were dying right and left because they were going hungry, if you even so much as insinuated or suggested that the government was responsible for the famine, you were imprisoned in a work camp. Can you imagine watching your family and children die and not being able to vocalize your feelings about it? Citizens were required to go through hours of behavioral correction and reeducation every single day after work and were encouraged to snitch on each other.
Everyone in North Korea is required to keep a picture of their Dear Leader on the wall in their house and wear a pin with his face on it. If you don't have either of these things, or if that picture is damaged or not cleaned regularly, you can be imprisoned.
A few years ago, North Korea was starting to get VCRs, and somehow South Korean soap operas were being smuggled across the border. When North Koreans were able to see for themselves how richly South Koreans live despite what their government told them, they began to get outraged. The government solution was to turn the power off at random times and send soldiers door to door to check people's VCRs. When the power goes off, the tape is stuck in the VCR. If you were caught with one of these tapes, you were imprisoned in a work camp, and as someone mentioned, it's not just you, it's three generations of your family.