- Lady Edith is at last having some fun. She's going to be a jazz baby.
- No, its the young Lucy (?) who is going to be the jazz girl. Lady Edie is going to those literary salons where she meets Virgina Woolf and the like ...
- Any good place to download? Thebox shut down :(
- Isn't Tom Cullen in it now? I want him deep inside me.
- He has not appeared yet, but will be one of the guys swarming around lady Mary. Gay boy Nigel Harman has not appeared yet either, as a new valet. Lets hope Thomas gets some action this time round.
- It was good but just as you'd expect for a first episode - how's that for no spoilers? There isn't much to say yet so it seems a 90 min episode was excessive.
I'm convinced it was timed to go with the Emmys which will make the papers tomorrow morning in a double whammy of publicity - regardless if it wins anything, its presence is enough.
I'm sure before it started earlier in September but maybe coincidnce. There's also another Christmas day special so that might have something to do with it. Before the Xmas episodes seemed like a "soap bubble" separate from the show, but cleary not anymore.
R3 I've downloaded episodes from The Pirate Bay before, they seem to go up pretty quick.
- I thought Thomas and Jimmy ended season three agreeing to be 'friends'. I just figured they'd end up going further with that. Thomas should get the mean fucked out of him by different guys in every episode.
- [quote]I think Dan Stevens has made a big mistake in leaving.
Agree. But I'm sort of glad in a way. I always thought the central love story was the weak link of the show. I prefer the supporting characters.
Dan Stevens and Michelle Dockery (aka Louise Lombard redux) are fine, look the part and act well and everything, just the characters are kinda dull ciphers and it had that generic will they/won't they angle for much of it, too predictable. Neither actor was known for anything before it and now Stevens looks awful following big weight loss.
Now I'm wondering how Lady Mary will let her hair down. Would it be too predictable for her to end up with Branson? Maybe it will be the Tom Cullen character. Or will Thomas finally get a love interest with Tom Cullen going gay again?
Not happy with Nigel Harman being in it. They keep using average actors from soaps. That Jimmy character is distracting as he looks too much like Simon Baker.
- [quote]I think Dan Stevens has made a big mistake in leaving.
I think so too, OP. Not every handsome Brit actor is going to strike gold like Damian Lewis.
More likely, his leaving will resemble David Caruso's career dive after he left NYPD Blue.
Although Caruso eventually got a starring role on CSI: Miami, his career never really recovered.
And it's not just about leaving. Both actors really fucked over the producers. Caruso's behavior has been well-documented, and Downton's Abbey's producers begged Stevens to stay just a little while, or make a cameo appearance so they wouldn't have to scramble immediately with a new story line.
The reputation for biting the hand that made you a name seldom goes away.
- Thomas is still a bitch.
- Thanks so much, OP. I didn't know it was back!
- Good point OP. Abruptly up and leaving a series doesn't bode well sometimes. People think "well he left his last series, what makes us think he won't do it again?" And they don't want to hire the actor in question. It took Caruso years to recover from the NYPD Blue situation and like you said he never got back to the level of stardom he had previously.
I have no idea what kind of career Dan Stevens expects to have in Hollywood, especially in films since that is apparently what he's aiming for. He's not a leading man or an action/comic book hero material. I think he made a really dumb decision leaving a gigantic international hit show that gets a ton of media attention - basically a job that any actor would kill for - and he just blew it.
- Whoops, I was talking to r9.
- As daytime soapy as it is, Dan Stevens could easily have been re-cast without the show missing a beat. He is an adequate but milquetoast actor.
I think he didn't want to be pigeon-holed as Matthew Crawley and overestimated the reach of DA. It's successful, but his character isn't particularly memorable. Take him out of period clothes, slap a different hairstyle and accent on him, and he'd be unrecognizable to most.
- Thank God, the Dowager Countess is back!
- Stevens was terrific in THE LINE OF BEAUTY a BBC production about 5 years ago, of Alan Hollinghurst's gay novel, where he was convinclying gay too. I didn't recognise him from those new photos where he had lost the chubby look and almost reshaped his face and hair.
Theres only room for a few successful British actors at any time, and it seems Damian Lewis and Henry Cavill got there first. Dan's recent film Summer in February which he was frantically bigging up in interviews at the time sank without trace here - and indeed, if he is lucky to get another series will producers trust him again? Walking out of a hit show causing the plot to be changed is not going to win him any admirers in the business. Lord Fellowes who created the show, has been gracious but you can imagine how furious they must have been.
- [quote]Thomas should get the mean fucked out of him by different guys in every episode.
Ooh! sounds good, hope Julian Fellowes wrote that
- [quote] That Jimmy character is distracting as he looks too much like Simon Baker.
but not as handsome. they way he is gushed over is ridiculous. British people have odd standards of male beauty.
- Muah! ha! Thomas is back at being a trouble-maker, but by sheer dumb luck, he ingratiates himself to his employers once again.
To his utter surprise, he was in fact right in telling on the bitch nanny.
- I'm with R311 - I like ending up at a tumblr of hot men where the pic was posted - gives me more images to scroll through.
- Remember, if you can't stand the wait here in the US, you can read about Downton online on the British newspaper websites.
Spoiler! Mary mourns Matthew's death in episode 1! she wears black... when will she go to purple?
- Where can I stream the new season? Please have a heart and post the link to this thread.
- Loved the first episode! I think they are handling Matthew's death well. For awhile I was expecting the writers to jump ahead 5 years or so for this first epi of season 4. Fortunately it looks like Mary will not mourn consistently for the cameras this season. That would have been a bummer. At least she looks like she's going to find things to do with managing Master George's money.
Oh and just an observation - obviously they started filming this episode before the future King of England, Prince George, was born. It's interesting that they selected the same name for Master George.
- I posted this in the other downton thread. go to
delishows dot com
and type in downton abbey
just be sure to click off all the ads that pop up (often in background browsers) The ads will disappear right after the show starts.
- SPOILER ALERT: Lady Mary ends up married to Carson by the end of the season.
- [quote]Where can I stream the new season? Please have a heart and post the link to this thread.
I can't believe that in the year 2013 there are people who are still unfamiliar with this, but here you go...
- I don't want to stream it on my laptop, I want to download it and stream it to my Apple TV so I can watch it with friends. So, is there a good place to download it?
- SPOILER ALERT: Lady Violet called Lady Edith's new labia piercing "vulgar!"
- Lady Edith shakes her shimmy HARD in episode one!
- Download Downton Abbey and a lot more here at Scene Source:
www dot scnsrc dot me
- [quote]I think Dan Stevens has made a big mistake in leaving. What has he done of note since?
A major role in "The Fifth Estate," the upcoming Oscar-bait film about Julian Assange and WikiLeaks? It premiered at TIFF and debuts in theaters next month.
[quote]Downton's Abbey's producers begged Stevens to stay just a little while, or make a cameo appearance so they wouldn't have to scramble immediately with a new story line.
He *did* give them notice, or at least enough of it to formally kill off Matthew. (Unlike Siobhan Finneran/Mrs O'Brien, who had to be hastily and awkwardly written off on last night's premiere after giving notice during hiatus.)
As for the episode, I wasn't crazy about it, frankly. There was no subtlety whatsoever to the "grey mood over Downton," which literally manifested itself on camera thanks to drab clothes and dusky camera filters ... until, of course, Mary decided to "rejoin the living" and all of a sudden BAM, the sun breaks and flowers bloom and everything is green again! It really seemed like filler, and more so given its extended length. I fail to see why on earth Carson's former "buddy" has shown up, unless they're pivoting for a reveal that they were more than just "friends." I'd say the best part was Nanny turning out to be such a vile cunt, resulting in Cora dismissing her on the spot. Anyway, I guess they needed to have at least one episode with everyone in "mourning" over Matthew ... which probably would've been more tolerable had it not been so soon since we had to witness all the mourning over Sybil (and her awful death scene), but anyway.
Yes, I think it's exceedingly obvious the writers are setting up Branson and Mary as the show's next big coupling.
- Not to be an old man, but what the eff is going on with that site, R30? It's a bunch of circular links that don't lead to any real torrent files. Just sketchy sites asking me to sign up for this and that. What happened to good old fashioned torrent forums?
- Anyone know why Siobahn left? O'Brien was a very popular character and I'm going to miss her.
- R32, just Google "The Pirate Bay".
- She was a cunt
- R32, SceneSource isn't a torrent site.
The links take you to file-sharing sites where you can download the link (slowly) for free or (quickly) for a fee.
You can get movies, tv, music, magazines, ebooks, etc.
A site like AllDebrid dot com handles files from dozens of sites for one monthly fee.
I think it's less hassle than torrent sites.
- Thanks a million, r26! I used 1 channel before they switched to vodly (?), but there are now way too many ads. I've never heard of Solar Movie, but it is a lot less cluttered than other streaming sites.
- I watched it on tubeplus.me less than 24 hours after it aired in the UK, commercial free as well.
heres the link. I got rid of my cable and now only watch TV online. If you connect your PC to your TV with an HDMI you can still have a big screen experience.
Lady Edith is going to be a NAZI !
- Thanks, R38. Yeah, it seems as though Lady Edith's paramour is heading down the "Heil Hitler" road.
- Let's have a Gay old time
- I still wonder whether Dan Stevens really left all voluntarily. Actors in the UK seem to see their career differently than in the US. Inititially I thought it was just negotiations gone bad. The agent fucked up, asked for too much money, and the actor is out of a job.
- I'm so glad, OP, that you continue to find our little story a diversion from whatever tawdriness is your lot. And how clever that you have found a way to avoid the trade that sustains us, and thought to announce it.
We are all trying to avoid being killed off, but personally, I offer no assurances. The man is mad.
But it's "it's," dear. Really.
And do please note my preferred title. "Dowager" makes me seem as old as I am, and adding my lovely first name permits its (note, please, no apostrophe here) disappearance. Because being correct while pointing out ways to achieve one's desires is, after all, what I offer in a positive way.
- Okay. Lots of choppy little scenes, trying to cram everything in.
I've decided that Mosely is my favorite character now that O'Brien has left. He should always be in the background causing chaos.
I know they are trying to liven up Lady Edith's character but she has no chemistry with the actor playing her lover. Also the idea that either one of them would consider moving to Germany so soon after the war is ludicrous. The writer's usual solution would be to kill off the crazy wife (hey, it worked for Matthew and Bates) but a better idea would be for Edith to finally get some balls and move to London to live in sin with the guy. She is always so wishy-washy and all she does is moan about her life. Well, she should just do it.
- r43 are you mad? In 1922 NOBODY "lived in sin." Especially the upper classes. It was a major, major taboo and a modern person can't really comprehend the disgust and uproar such a living arrangement gave to people back then.
- Indeed. She told her lover that her mother even forbade dining out in public at all, let alone go running around like some floozy mistress!
- Well it was frightfully bohemian and scandalous, r44 and r45 but it is the Roaring 20s now. Married couples having affairs was always acceptable for the upper classes, as was installing a mistress in an apartment. This is just the next step. Remember, she is running with a literary crowd. They would be more avant garde.
Have you ever read Nancy Mitford's Pursuit of Love? Linda lived with that French count. Fanny's mother, who had done something similar, had the devastating final line in that book.
- They need a Diana Mosely type.
- SolarMovie asks for a credit card number, which they say they won't charge.
Are these kinds of sites responsible with the credit card information?
- Here is an interview with Siobhan Finneran and she goes into why she decided to leave the show
- I downloaded the episode off Kickass torrents. It was in HD, the commercials were cut out and it played beautifully. Anyone looking to download the episode get it from there
- [quote] Not every handsome Brit actor is going to strike gold like Damian Lewis.
Damien Lewis looks like a lizard.
- This show is OVER...
- Downton Abbey is past its prime. These days, Anglophiles are turning to such new series as "Call the Midwife," "Death in Paradise," "Last Tango in Halifax" and the new Father Brown mysteries.
- r46 A very small handful of bohemian fringe types lived together, but that was it. In the 1920s, there was no way in hell an upper-class woman would move in with a lover. Hell, even as recently as the 1980s that kind of thing was still scandalous in those circles. But in the 20s it was almost akin to criminal activity.
- From that Daily Fail article about O'Brien leaving. She's on a new show called The Syndicate.
[quote]The drama, about a syndicate of supermarket workers who win the lottery, attracted more than six million viewers when it aired last year. The second series features a completely different syndicate — of Bradford hospital workers — with Siobhan’s character Mandy as the crux of the piece.
How long before this gets revised and produced in the US? Seems like a ratings winner.
- R28, Violet, Countess of Grantham, would properly be called Lady Grantham, not Lady Violet. Please attempt some composure in your "humour."
- 'The Syndicate' has been and gone here in the UK for months, I had totally forgotten about it until the mention above, it didn't cause much interest and was totally unbelievable (Lottery winners continue their poorly paid hospital jobs - I don't think so). If Siobhan was persuaded to leave 'Downton' to appear in it, she was badly advised. Still she may be going back to 'Benidorm' - her other comedy series.
- yes, she is r57. It was also in the article.
- R38, what is this "credit card" you speak of?
- I miss the opening credits and music from previous seasons.
- R57, Finneran says in the interview that she had signed a three season deal and already felt after the second season that she didn't want to make a new deal.
Some people here accuse Finneran and Stevens of bailing out and leaving suddenly, almost like they just announced it the day before the shooting began. I'm pretty sure that if they didn't sign the contracts the producers and writers knew well in advance that they'd be out. Of course I have no idea what happened, and possibly Stevens leaving might have come as a surprise to the makers so they had to kill him suddenly.
R60, the old theme was played in the end of the episode so I assume that the opening credits and the different music were just there because of how last season ended. BTW, I was playing the theme in my head on Sunday because I knew the new episode would be out and suddenly I realized that it wasn't the Downton theme playing but music from Jane Campion's The Piano that was composed by Michael Nyman. Didn't realize how close Downton's theme was to that.
- oh too funny. After I wrote about importing The Syndicate idea for US television, I checked the tv schedule tonight and there is a similar show on ABC at 10 pm. Hadn't seen a preview for it, honest.
- The latest series r38 is set in 1922, just at the start of the jazz age. It is far too early to think of Nazis - maybe if it continues up to 1933 in future series ?
- I can understand Finneran wanting to leave and do other things, she did not actually have much to do in Downton, after the first series.
- r63 the Nazi Party had its' genesis in the early 1920s. By 1922 (the current Downton Abbey year) it had several thousand members and was beginning to be a political force in Germany.
- I live in the states and have watched Downton a few hours after it airs in the UK for a couple of years now.
The first episode ended well, I especially enjoyed the outcome of the Nanny West story line. I'm not looking for ward to this story line with Clara's new maid, it would appear that it's going to be frustrating.
I don't think the character O'Brien would have left Lady Crawley if not for the actor leaving the cast. O'Brien still had too much guilt about causing Clara's miscarriage and illness.
I'm not as interested in Carson's past as Mrs. Hughes seems to be.
I'm really ready for Edith to hurry up and do something. If her suitor has become a German citizen to divorce his wife, then so be it. As long as she stays in Yorkshire for that time.
I suspect that Mary will do well with her endeavors. I do wish that some of her ice would melt, but I don't expect it.
Lord Grantham, I'm sure will continue to annoy me with his obliviousness to the world.
Must Barrow continue on at [...]? I've never cared for his character, despite his being gay. I'd rather he were to suddenly compelled to move to Russia.
- R55, it's called Lucky 7, it starts tonight on ABC and it's a direct adaptation of The Syndicate. I think one of the actresses on that is even in this one, too.
- [quote]I don't think the character O'Brien would have left Lady Crawley if not for the actor leaving the cast.
Agreed, but not for the reason of guilt. I think O"Brien (who IMO is a lesbian) secretly was in love with Lady Crawley.
- Lorraine Bruce plays Denise in both The Syndicate and Lucky 7.
- Finneran, like Stevens certainly made a foolish choice.
- I wish the Evil Nanny story had been a tad more subtle and lasted at least one more episode.
I'm also not interested in this old friend of Carson and it surprises me that Mrs Crawley would take him on as a project and bring him into her house, a derelict stranger! and yet be so oblivious to Moseley's plight.
The new ladies maid is intended to stir up trouble. She fumbled the sick Mum? Aunt? question during her interview. In the preview, it looks like she'll clash with Bates.
It all seems so predictable.
- The young woman they brought in from the Scottish family is our "Georgina" from Upstairs, Downstairs in the '70's. They brought her in for the same plot reasons.
- This show is lousy. Let's talk about "EastEnders" instead. Anyone else watch that?
- Another season starting and already characters and storylines that come and go with no apparent long term planning. It's a show that could have been brilliant yet it is so superficial. Characters drive a good show not plot.
- It's the British version of Dallas, basically. Dallas can be seen at this point as period drama.
- I love th period depicted
- Is it a contentious set? I'm puzzled why actors keep jumping ship. Is Fellowes a prick?
- Possibly, but who cares, the product is riveting.
- I think the show is benefitting from his departure. He's adding more to the story dead than he would have if he were alive. Matthew was at the point where he was just background noise. He was completely dull last season. Good luck to Dan, but I think his character was expendable.
- Will the ever solve the mystery of Lady Mary's cursed vagina?
- It looks like Branson's tongue is going to solve that mystery pretty soon, r80.
- Just downloaded season four episode one. Allen Leech is as hot as ever.
- Yes, he is R82. I wish he'd had more to actually do in this episode. Does he call Grantham "Robert" or "Lord Grantham?"
- He calls him "hunky daddy bear"
- I hope Bates (Brendan Coyle) has more to do this series - he's been practically sidelined. Ditto Thomas - he needs to have some sex or love interest. Otherwise he should leave and move to London to meet others of his kind.
- Brendan definitely seems to be gay in real life, has there been any confirmation on Branson being gay?
- [quote]I hope Bates (Brendan Coyle) has more to do this series - he's been practically sidelined. Ditto Thomas - he needs to have some sex or love interest.
It's only been 1 episode! Give it time. They had to get the aftermath of Matthews death out of the way.
- It really doesn't seem realistic that a cute young gay like Thomas would stay at such a remote location, totally cut off from other gay men for so long. It's been what, 10 years now? He would've found a job in London years earlier.
- I hear Lady Mary doesn't grieve for long.
- Oh, MARY!
- Anyone watch?
- Last night's episode wandered around quite a bit. I wish they'd just stop the "Thomas the Treacherous Queer" bit. It's hugely tiresome now. He's back conspiring with the new ladies maid and we've seen that before - why repeat the plot line? Can't they be more creative than that?
- he needs a big hard cock
- Well, he should get one...
- r92 - He's back to being treacherous? Treachery would be fine if it were fun. And if Thomas ever got any action. I don't think he's had any since the first series, and we didn't even get to see that - just Thomas's thwarted attempt to blackmail the guy afterward.
- I just watched the first episode. It does take place during winter, so that explains the "grey" look. And I loved the ending, when Mary went to the luncheon.
I HATE that they're going with that new ladies' maid. Hate her. Is she the same one who played her in the first season?
I'm bored with Thomas. And I didn't get that there was any "Heil Hitler" stuff going on with Edith's beau, just because he's moving to Germany. I mean, it's 1922 - a little early for National Socialism over there.
- I agree I'm not really missing Matthew. I think his death creates more storyline than his living would have. But I wish Sybil hadn't died as well. I think it's too many deaths at once and I don't really care for Rose as her replacement.
- Sybil is the people's countess
- I wonder if Thomas gets some ass off-camera. My god, it's been ten years!
- Am I the only weirdo who mentally calculates when each of the Downton characters would have most likely died while watching the show? I can't be the only one.
- yes, they are the age of some of my grand and great-grand parents.
- Lady Edith and Lady Mary could have lived into the 1990's, if they'd made it to their late 90's or even 100. The Downton Abbey Wiki has all the characters' birth years.
- This is a true Delight!
- The show's better off without Dan Stevens. What a wet blanket.
- Well, that Lady Rose is certainly a roaring strumpet if I ever did see!
- Bump for bleached blond Dan Stevens.
- What is the color of his hair?
- I don't think he can decide, Hugh.
- There is clearly now a deficit of blonds on the show
- Has Cora gone mute or something? I watched the first 2 episodes and think she had maybe 4 lines at most.... her biggest story arc seems to be her mourning a ruined sock?
Maybe her gay bachelor brother Harold will liven her up when he come to visit from America.
- That could be interesting r111, will he and Thomas click ?
- I don't miss Matthew (Dan Stevens), but I do miss Sybil. She was so cute together with Branson. I always thought they got too little screen time, especially compared to Matthew and Mary and Anna and Bates. They were the most boring couples, and they got the majority of the screen time in season 2 and 3. I totally understand why the actress playing Sybil wanted to leave. Her character was the most interesting one, and unfortunately the most underused. It sucks. I'm glad we still have one half of the couple left though. Branson is so cute! And I quite like the new bond he's created with Mary, though nothing can come close to the relationship he had with Sybil imo.
- Branson can do no wrong in my book, I hope that that slutty Maid doesn't try to shag him again.
- I like Branson, and it looks like we'll be seeing more of him. Allen Leech is adorable.
- I believe that slutty maid was fired last season, r114, so don't worry!
- Sybil and Tom were my favorite love story too.
- Something which I think is great and unique about the show which no reviewerhas commented on: the central character of Lady Mary isn't especially likeable on modern terms. She's an emotionally cold solidlyy rational upperclass woman of which there were thousands and hasn't been softened for modern sensibilities -- partly by Fellowes and partly by Dockery's icy performance. Some reviewers don't get it: they call her wooden. Nope. She just withholds, but its brave and brilliant.
- I agree with R118. Dockery and her character take all kinds of shit on the boards where hausfraus are looking for Harlequin romance.
Mary is possibly the only realistically written and portrayed character on the show. She's strong and tough, she knows her world and she won't apologize for it. She is not unkind at heart, although Edith would never know it.
Violet had character integrity in season one but they've gone way overboard with the softness now.
- I think Dockery plays the part quite flatly. Lady Mary might be an upper class cold hearted girl but she's way too one dimensional since Dockery seems to be unable to inject life into the character. On the other hand I don't think Dockery is a bad actress so I assume that she's playing the role as she's been instructed to. Dan Stevens was the other one whose character seemed to be painfully simple and charicaturish but Stevens' charm came through more than Dockery's.
- [quote] Some reviewers don't get it: they call her wooden. Nope. She just withholds, but its brave and brilliant.
I find it the draw of the show: a beautiful woman acting unappealingly; and that creates a frisson with the audience.
- J'adore Dockery. She's the best actress on the show. I find her riveting.
- Everyone is laying bets that Edith's man becomes fascinated by the nazis - as per many of the UC in the 30s and becomes a blackshirt, while Edith becomes a Mitfordesque Hitler groupie, or a Sally Bowles cabaret crooner in black silk lederhosen. Bonus points if they take Thomas to Germany with them as a valet so he can go through the Weimar boy bars like a hot knife through butter.
- When does the new series begin on PBS?
- January, r124.
- Re the slutty maid, yes, she was fired, but Mrs. Hughes wrote her a good rec for some reason (can't remember why), which led to Cora's hiring her now to replace O'Brien. I wish they hadn't done this.
- I love Michelle Dockery. She's the most realistic actor on the show. Lady Mary is complicated and mercurial and human.
- r116, there were two maids last season who were throwing themselves at the Upstairs people. One was the war widow who got involved with Lord Crawley. She left, she wasn't fired.
The other was a brazen hussy who went after the widowed Branson when he was confused about his role and place at Downton. She was fired but Mrs Hughes gave her a decent recommendation so she wouldn't cause trouble. She is the one who has come back as Cora's ladies maid because dimwit Cora never figured out what was going on.
- I smell trouble
- Oh, dear. things have suddenly all gone quite awry at the Downton Abbey!
- Dame Nelly was quite the tart!
- THis is still a shock to me, I hope that everyone will be alright. and dumb dora is just getting dumber.
- Wasn't this new guy supposed to be gay and now he's suddenly violently raping women? If he turns out to be "gay" in the end I can only wonder the motives behind Fellowes for practically making all the show's gay characters evil assholes.
What I've seen of Fellowes he acts like a vicious queen himself but is married to a woman so who knows.
- I can't believe poor Anna was raped by that valet. She'll be ruined. Mary won't want to be near her. That whore maid fucking Tom was wild too. Great season so far.
- Lord Grantham is getting on my nerves. I know it's his part to be the old school guy. But does he have to be aaall the time? Surprise me at least one time and be ahead of the pack
- r123, I buy it as a long-term story arc (the first bit, that is). It figures that once Fellowes runs out of stuff from the OLD Upstairs Downstairs he'd start ripping off the NEW Upstairs Downstairs.
I thought the rape was cheap exploitative drama. The entire reason the servants were upstairs was to contrive a situation where Anna would be alone with that valet. No FUCKING way the grubby kitchen maids would've been allowed to sit up in the hall in clear sight to watch the opera singer the masters had paid a large amount of money to come visit and perform. Not right after a dinner for 16, who were staying for the night. Especially given they would've been up from 5am and probably stank like horse shit. All contrived so Anna could get raped. Bullshit.
- Fluff. Good-looking fluff but still empty fluff.
- Countdown to the Anna=pregnant drama in 3...2...1...
- I predict the new Lord, Tom Cullen, with be getting serious with Lady Mary until its discovered his valet raped one of the house's trusted servants, whereupon Lord Downton will have the valet horse-whipped and thrown out of the house, and thats the end of Mary's latest romance.
- r139, is that who the rapist was valeting for? I wasn't keeping track of the names.
That guy already has a fiancee and you can't ditch her without being sued for breach of promise.
- so it's quite the sticky wicket, isn't it?
- so far i'm not really feeling this season. it seems like very little is happening and the anna rape felt really out of character for the show.
- it does come as a slap. Episode three shows that this season could be quite difficult to watch.
- I don't think the show is up to the fall out from a rape storyline. Uncle Julian loves his happy coincidences too much to resolve the unpleasant quickly.
- There seems to be quite a bit of backlash on the rape story. It's fair enough in some ways - Downton Abbey is meant to be light weight escapism. A rape storyline is a bit too full on for a show like this.
- maybe the whole cast will be raped one by one!
- Couldn't believe Mary said No to that hot guy. Of course if he married Mary the rapist butler would come to Dowtown with his lord. That gay butler over hears everything.
- Downton will never compare:
- One thing that makes it so soap opera is the people who always are in the right place at the right time to hear all the dirt.
- Downton is not comparable to Upstairs Downstairs. Hell, it can't even compare with Falcon Crest.
- What in the world - were some of you under the impression that this was a documentary? It's a play, with costumes and running around.
- I can't wait to see it!
- Lady Mary is getting better and better!
- Thomas and Edna
- a delightful scenario twist
- This show needs Cumberbatch. Perhaps next season to help wrap things up?
- Can someone explain to me how Matthew was able to leave his half of the estate to Mary? I thought women couldn't inherit these estates -- wasn't that what the first season was all about. Maybe that only affects the portion of the estate that goes with the title -- but then why is the estate in pieces anyway? When Matthew bailed Lord Grantham out, didn't his money become part of the overall estate like Cora's?
- the letter he wrote and that was discovered the last episode. Legally binding even though it never became a full will. But indeed, the finances are getting pretty inscrutable.
I do like seeing Lady Mary trotsy around with the hot farmer men though.
- Yeah, I know he wrote a letter. That wasn't my question. The question was, how was it possible for Matthew to leave the estate to a woman.
- maybe laws changed? no, it honestly doesn't seem logical.
- Thank goodness Lady Cora has had more than one line this episode. she finally woke up it seems
- I knew that dog Edith was knocked up. Now the father is missing in Germany. He tapped that shit and split.
- I saw the letter only so briefly, I couldn't make out what it was about.
- Edith is not a whore.
Edna Braithwaite, now SHE'S a whore.
A scheming, tossed out on her bloody fanny, whore.
- Its getting sillier and sillier how masters and servants speak to and confide in each other. Lady Cora was splendid last night when Bates and wife Anna were at the fancy restaurant (servants eating out in expensive restaurants?- and where was the nearest fancy restaurant to [...]) - the snooty waiter was not going to give them a table but Cora was dining there too and came up to let the waiter see she knew them.. boy, did he bow and scrape.
- That Lady Rose is a little strumpet
The servants are all running around like silly these days
- Lord Fellowes seems to have come a cropper with this new ROMEO & JULIET which seems to have quitely died - the very idea of updating it for today's kids by de-Shakespearing it, how stupid was that ! Surely we have enough versions with the fondly remembered Zeffirelli and Baz's.
It had the usual comments re Douglas Booth - he was prettier than Juliet, like his Pip in that recent Great Expectations, being more eyecatching than that ordindary looking Estella.
The Lord's Titanic mini-series from last year was a resounding flop too, the first episode was quite enough for me.
- I find it all very fascinating. it never strives for great gestures or art, but it is quite entertaining.
- The DOG BUTT returned in episode three!!!
The 'new' opening looked like the Gorey opening of PBS's Mystery.
[Actually is was the cover I missed seeing measured (and I believe it is an armorial plate in the Royal Doulton pattern Chantilly)].
- I like the dog, Athena?
- Isis. But how many years have passed since the first season?
- It started 1912 and they're now in 1922 or 1923 now.
- I LOVE Harriet Jones.
- Harriet Jones certianly holds her own with Maggie Smith. Their scenes this week were wonderful.
- RE: Matthew's Letter/Will
I don't think he left her the estate as such, I think what he left her was his personal estate, not Downton. Remember prior to finding the letter, it was assumed Matthew died intestate so everything would be held in trust for George - with Lord Grantham looking to act as sole trustee. I think the letter left Mary as trustee for their child should he die early (he wrote it knowing she was pregnant before leaving for Scotland) and his personal estate (not the entailed estate) went to Mary.
- [quote]It started 1912 and they're
it started directly before the first world war.
- HArriet Jones shines in this series. this is why I love Downton
- Lady Edith should have closed her legs to married mens!
- It started in 1912, just a few days after the Titanic sank.
- Isabel and Edith look related.
- They look like typical British Horses.
- I want her to pull out an ID and say
Isobel Crawley, grandmother to the heir.
- Fucking British SLUTS!!
- Well, r185, Salford IS in the UK
- I loved Lady Mary hip-deep in pigshit tonight.
- Next week is the last episode of the season...
- Roas is a little tramp
Edith a whore
Mary a tart
Rosamund an old hag
Dowager is dying of pox
Cora is dumb
Anna is fucked up
- Robert is alive. Matthew never owned the "entailed" estate. Matthew and Mary's child is Robert's heir: the Grantham legacy.
Inheritance requires a decedent.
Presumably, when he invested he was granted some separate interest that didn't become part of the entail, to leave Mary.
- He's in America now getting sucked off, maybe by Thomas
- What's up with the E names?
When is Eliza coming?
- OMG, Mary is actually becoming human!
- Branson is getting fatter and fatter.
- This season was such a letdown.
- So are Branson and Bates both gay in real life? Yes, Branson is gaining weight...
- Who is the casts this show? Branson, Mary's almost boyfriend, the pig guy and the late rapist ALL LOOK ALIKE.
I did like Lord Merton in a hot daddy way. I liked him even more when he gave the larger flower arrangement to Harriet Jones.
The nasty crack about being invited to tea was priceless as was the reply. I actually LOL.
- Should be - who is it that casts this show?
- In every interview the guy who plays Thomas makes a sexual crack about the guy who plays Tom Branson. In some of them they are together, joking around. In one, the guy who plays Thomas spoke about Branson's pecks being the real attraction to the show. I think those two are fucking each other regularly.
- r199 it seems Rob, who plays gay evil Thomas is straight and married in real life while Branson who is straight in the show seems to be gay in reality.
Rob was on a tv interview a few days ago (Jonathan Ross show) and was discussing his gay kiss scene with that footman - apparantly his wife turned to him and said "you never kiss me like that" !
- Thanks R200. I think Branson is hot as fuck.
- It seems that Thomas displeased his lordship whilst in the colonies...
- Good Heavens, Edith, a back alley abortion? Have you not sought out other options?
Pick a staircase my girl, and fling yourself down posthaste.
Given the delicate nature of your mothers' womb, a simple bath may suffice. Or did O'Brien take her bar of soap with her to America?
- Thomas obviously had lots of fun in New York... maybe Cora's brother? New York gay clubs? Baths?
- I wonder where gay men went in those days to have some fun.
- I was a bit disappointed that the most exciting moment of season 4 happened off-screen. Do we think that Mr. Bates offed the valet Mr. Green who raped his wife or did he arrange for one of his friends from his prison days to do the deed and leave him in the clear?
I was also disappointed in the lack of Thomas scenes this year. They make this big deal about his gay role, yet in the 4 seasons the show has been on he has had maybe one episode that revolves around his sexuality. Are we to believe that Thomas is content to just spend his days scheming with the lady's maids acquiring gossip about his employers when he could be having relationships outside the house?
- [quote]I wonder where gay men went in those days to have some fun.
Madonna concert at the local Vaudeville ?
- I thought Shirley MacLaine was coming back as Lady Cora's mom and Paul Giamatti was to show up as Cora's brother this season. Is this only for the Christmas show?
- [quote]Madonna concert at the local Vaudeville ?
At that stage of her career she totally ripped off Lily Langtree at the Palace. Lovely Bristols, though.
- I think in the real world, a strapping young gay like Thomas would have gone and found employment in London, which wouldn't have been that difficult, so he could be around other gay men and have a social life.
- Rose's unfortunate paramour was HOT. Too bad that didn't get any juicier.
- >> Rose's unfortunate paramour was HOT. Too bad that didn't get any juicier.
Too bad he couldn't act.
- yes Series 4 was rather a downer, not enough Thomas and of course he had not much to do now that O'Brien has gone too. There must be some outlets up there for him to have sex or cruise around...
Sourpuss McLaine is back for the next Christmas special with Giamatti, and I am pleased to say also veteran British actor James Fox - who was hot in the 60s (The Servant, The Chase, King Rat, Performance, Isadora, Duffy, etc) and is now a respected elder thesbian. I saw him earlier this year at a screening of The Servant to mark its release on Blu-ray, and he and co-stars Sarah Miles and Wendy Craig were there to talk about it afterwards - how often does that happen, actors discussing a movie of theirs 50 years later?
James will obviously be 'upstairs' - now if they could fit in a role for Sarah Miles as well, she would be perfect as a disreputable grand dame acquaintance of the Dowager Dame Maggie.
- That must have been great to see Fox, wacky Sarah Miles and Wendy Craig talking about their film 50 years later. They are still going in their 70s.
James was simply divine as Jimmy in Thoroughly Modern Millie, doing the tapioca with Julie Andrews. Love it.
- wow, that mispost was a thread killer, r214.
- James Fox was Foxy in drag in Thoroughly Modern Millie.
A real beauty.
- I liked this season better than the third. Matthew's departure made Mary and Isabelle into more interesting characters. He'd become so dull, it was really time for him to go.
Thomas spent the whole season twirling his moustache with no actual agenda, he was just boring. Three seasons of supposed character growth for this?
I'm surprised how many loose ends there were by the end. It didn't feel like a complete season.
I like Molesley's interaction with what's her face. I hope a romance blossoms there. It seems very sweet and genuine. Branson's new girlfriend seems fun. Bringing back William's father for a moment was a nice touch. I think it was Mrs. Hughes who killed the valet. Bates going to York seems like a red herring. At least I think it would be more fun if that were true. Don't fuck with Mrs Hughes.
- Allen Leech, the actor who plays Branson, whom we think is gay in real life, reveals in a Q&A quiz in one of today's free downmarket UK papers (Metro) that he shares a house with 4 Irish guys in North London - what goes on there one wonders, he could surely afford a place of his own ???
- This actually was a VERY GOOD season. Guy they need more episodes in them. I didn't realize Sunday was the finale! The US audience will be pleasantly surprised - at the end I was like Matthew who?
THey did a very nice job.
-  Branson and the other valet who is hot gained weight this season. :( You have some time off, work it fellas.
- I like them a bit chunky
- [quote]s this only for the Christmas show?
- [quote]Too bad he couldn't act.
too bad he couldn't sing that nicely
- [quote] I think it was Mrs. Hughes who killed the valet. Bates going to York seems like a red herring.
YIKES, maybe it was that strumpet Lady Rose!! Yegads!
- Bump for the PBS crowd
- I love the Xmas special, very festive.
- Lady Mary is moonlighting in a Liam Neeson movie. Can't wait!
- Michelle makes a nice stewardess
- SHirley McClain makes a wonderful witch!
- Thomas the valet is FAT. Begone, tubbo!
- Thomas Barrow also makes a wonderful witch.
- Tom Branson has chunky, carby, flabby thighs and boobies.
- He's a charming larky lad
- They really didn't give Maclaine much to do.
- They didn't, but she does great at her few scenes.
- Did that homely Paul Giamatti finally make an appearance as Lady Cora's uncle?
And is that who Julian (or whoever casts this show) believes Elizabeth McGovern most closely resembles in Hollywood: Paul G. and Shirley Maclaine?! How utterly insulting.
- Does Shirley's character get to do anything except bang on about how much better they do it in America? Because that's all she really did last time and... once was enough.
- [quote]Did that homely Paul Giamatti finally make an appearance as Lady Cora's uncle?
yup, and he looks trim and beau brummel, he does play an underwritten part nicely with silliness and sensitivity - pity he was barely on the scene too.
R237, she gets some really good barbs in at Dame Maggie. And she gets hit on by a gold-digger lord.
- this show is a blast
- Nanny won't be seen anytime soon
- English actor James Fox ('The Servant' boy and a protege of Dirk Bogarde 50 years ago) was good as the Lord hoping to get his hands on McLaine's money, while she led him on. Good to see Fox still working.
- He worked it like a bitch
- I'm ready to see if this show has what it takes.
- Finally caught up with Downton Abbey today. It was good seeing everyone again (sans Matthew), but I hope it picks up cause the two-hour premier was a snoozer. Did you notice that they are trying to replace O'Brien with...wait for it...another sneaky O'Brien! And of course the Bates' become victims (once again) of that duplicitious Mr. Barrow (will he ever change?), and Mrs, Hughes is all up in Carson's shit (again) over some old friend that we as an audience have zero emotional investment in. It was not a very good opening. Maybe it is running out of steam? The best part was the nasty nanny, but they got rid of her real fast.
- I love the new season - except for the triangle? quadrilateral? among the footmen and kitchen maids. Just not interested in that story.
I'm really loving the near ritual humiliation of Molesley. I hope they never fully redeem his character but continue to find ways to make his life miserable.
- He's clearly a buttboy
- What is this show that I keep getting commercials for -some British saga starring the guy who played Matthew? He is pitching it.
- MAtthew and the Allstars!
- I agree the servant love dance is boring. I've got nothing against the lessers sniffing one another, but at least make it interesting. Daisy and William was sweet.
- I get a certain sadistic pleasure imagining Mrs. Hughes learning the hard way 'be careful what you ask for'.
Particularly the first time Carson slips her the bone.
- [quote] Tom Branson has chunky, carby, flabby thighs and boobies
The fan frenzy over him escapes me. He looks like every pug-nosed Irish kid I went to school with.
Why do they hate Molesley so much? He's born and raised on the estate. His father's been the gardener since forever. He was a decent enough valet and butler. He may be a bit douchey, but he's not evil.
Yet they all raise their eyebrows at him and shrug their shoulders when he looks for a job, while they give Thomas promotions; tolerate the murderous hijinx of O'Brien; worried half to death over Bates, the lame, imprisoned accused wife killer; helped Ethel the floozy learn cookery so she could get a job near her bastard son and pulled Cheerful Charlie out of the workhouse, into Mrs. Crawley's spare bedroom and safely off to a theater job in Ulster. But Molesley? They're all, "Piss off!"
- Where the fuck do they get these ugly men? Edith's Puppet Face and now the one who's after Anna (yes, I know what happens). He's as ugly as the Melted Face False Cousin in Series Two.
- Aw, I see Charlie Tyrell's wife who died of anorexia in Dutchess of Duke Street is now a dutchess herself and no longer anorexic at all.
- [quote]He looks like every pug-nosed Irish kid I went to school with.
And I've loved every single one of them
- Don't tell me Tom is leaving Downton Abbey!
- [quote] Don't tell me Tom is leaving Downton Abbey!
I hope so. His story line is so boring they had to bring back an old cast member so he could have someone to whom he could repeatedly verbalize his tiresome fish-out-of-water status.
"I'm so out of place!"
"Don't forget my wife is dead, everyone."
"God, I don't fit in here!"
"Mary, I can sympathize. My wife's dead. Remember?"
"I'm a walking disaster! People only tolerate me!"
"If only my wife weren't dead. I might be interesting."
- He's eye-candy, nothing more than that, but later in the season he'll get a few intrigues of his own.
- WTF was all that boring opera shit? Is the opera singer going to have it off w/Lord Grantham?
- the character was the biggest star in her day, the woman singing ws the biggest star about twenty years ago (her name is dame Kiri Te Kanawa, look her up) - it seems appropriate in my opinion. and it got in some digs about class relations and celebrity
- It seems appropriate that someone who was a big star 20 years ago should be introduced to Downton Abbey? Please. Fellowes cannot stop repeating his own old story lines. "Quick! Who can come on television and play the Ivor Novello part from Gosford Park? Grab anybody!"
- I'm just glad that frightening huge-headed sausage-faced new nanny got the boot quickly. Hated her intensely from the get-go, which of course turns out to have been proof of smart casting.
- They seem to be finding every opportunity to show us how stupid yet arrogant Lord Robert is. He is getting on my nerves. Hopefully, Mary and Tom kick him to the curb soon.
- Carson to Chortling Charlie, his intended-missus-thief: "Well, it's been a long time. As long as your dead stolen wife said that I am better than you are, I forgive you and wish you the best."
Carson to Thomas: "Well, even though it's the 1920s when homosexuality is a reviled criminal matter and I am an old stuffed shirt with outdated values, I inexplicably understand that being an homosexual is not a vile sin of unbridled and unnatural lust that one can easily overcome by marrying a good woman, so I'll let you stay here. And by the way, you're promoted and I shall insist the staff treat you with far more respect than you'll ever deserve."
Carson to Branson: "Well, you've disgraced our beautiful Lady Sybil by getting your grimy idolatrous, socialist hands on her. You've defiled her, gotten her involved in political schemes that risk her very freedom, abandoned her to find her own way home to England and have impregnated her. But... You are my better now, so of course I'll call you MISTER Branson and demand the others do the same. And BTW, it is no longer befitting you to dine with us scum. You shouldn't even notice me anymore. Ssh! I'm not here. I'm nobody."
Carson to Mrs Hughes, discussing the former housemaid Edna, who was overly familiar with and undoubtedly set on making Branson a sexual trophy: "Well, her ladyship says she's ok. Even though we know she is a scheming trouble-maker who's made it clear she wants to hump Lady Sybil's widower, we shall gladly accept her promotion and treat her as the downstairs social pecking order demands. We can do no less; it is our unquestioning duty."
Carson to Mr Molesley, the harmless, somewhat buffoonish but loyal and hardworking staff member pretty much since his birth on the grounds of Downton Abbey: "PISS OFF, hahahaha! Oh hey... Don't forget your GLOVES, hahahahaha! (dangles gloves under Moseley's nose in front of lower staff). Couldn't get any lower, could you? HAHAHA! (pointedly looks down nose at Molesley and pretends to smell something evil) Oh yeah, YOU'RE helping US out, bwahahaha! Yeah, right! Look everybody -- laugh at Molesley, would you?"
- [quote]It seems appropriate that someone who was a big star 20 years ago should be introduced to Downton Abbey?
honeybunch, listen, you really don't know much, but listen. Dame Nelly Melba at this DATE in history would have been at just about the point in her career that Dame Kiri te Kanawa is - well-known (sorry that you are so ignorant) but not in her performing prime, a VERY likely candidate for a character who'd maybe appear at a salon-like event like this, a bit far-fetched, but not completely.
very interesting that the point you make NEVEr came up at all when the series premiered in the UK months ago, maybe you're just not very smart,.
- [quote] new nanny got the boot quickly. H
she's not the only servant to leave quickly this season.
- For those who are interested, I've started a thread for those watching on PBS to avoid spoilers from those who have already seen it.
- [quote] prime, a VERY likely candidate for a character who'd maybe appear at a salon-like event like this, a bit far-fetched, but not completely.
A salon? At Downton Abbey? I hardly think so
- Nijinsky, Karsavina, Pavlova - they all did these type of events to get patrons - also they got paid.
- they mention how expensive Dame Nellie is
- The Ballet Russe dancers even gave dancing lessons to rich patrons and their kids. They made a lot of money at it.
- I'd love to see Nijinsky come on the series and fuck that Thomas Barrow senseless.
- It's too late Nijinsky was insane at this point, too bad - it's a great idea. Thomas will be the evil queer through out the season, no redemption for him - no sex either. Poor guy....
- I had never heard of Nellie Melba before, so I looked her up and she was apparently a household name in that time period.
How much of a budget does this show have? Are they hiring writers with Alzheimer's? How can they write this booooring shit?
Why do men fall instantly in love with these Crawley girls?
- I love to look at Tom Cullen and he seems nice enough but madly in love with the Widow Mary in 2 episodes?
Uncle Julian, do try to put some thought into all this.
- And oughn't the jazz singer have been able to sing?
And should he be imitating Kate Middleton's eye liner eighty years before anyone sawr it?
- Tonight's episode was not well written.
- Jazzy Jack pinged to high heaven.
- [quote]It's too late Nijinsky was insane at this point, too bad
Not to mention straight.
- Love the slutty maid being sent away, and Thomas telling her that she's a slut
- I couldn't figure the slutty maid out. I was inferring she thought somehow she'd marry Branson and they'd live at Downton as part of the family.
Then other times I thought she was crazy.
Whatever, she's gone. Again, Uncle Julian does a moderate job of storytelling. Season over season this show is going slightly downhill.
- I can't figure out why the show is so boring. There's a lot of character development, good acting, and of course, great sets. But it just seems to drag on and on.
- [quote]I couldn't figure the slutty maid out. I was inferring she thought somehow she'd marry Branson and they'd live at Downton as part of the family.
Yeah, I couldn't figure that one out either. Surely she knows that Tom has nothing of his own. That if he was forced to marry her they certainly couldn't stay at Downton as a couple. They'd be thrown out, even if he is the father of a Crawley. The child isn't an heir.
But maybe she IS that stupid.
- [quote]I can't figure out why the show is so boring. There's a lot of character development, good acting, and of course, great sets. But it just seems to drag on and on.
Julian Fellowes has run out of ideas. He didn't expect the show to be as successful as it is and to go on this long.
- People come and go so quickly around Downton! Hardly any real story development.
I want more Lord Gillingham! Don't go!
- I was bored with last night's episode as well.
Mary having to turn down a suitor - already. Please.
Edna... what was the point of bringing her back if she was going to be written out so quickly... unless Fellowes plans to bring her back preggers and again torment Branson..
The first nanny... again what was her purpose?
The jazz singer... okay, he'll get to bed cousin Rose - how bloody obvious was that? His singing was so wrong for the period. Just so wrong.
Thomas Barrow perpetually twirling his invisible "moustache of evil" and never accomplishing anything.
I love Edith, wish she had run off to Germany with her man. Now we're back to her being alone. Dull, dull, dull. Anyone taking bets that one night of passion has left her with a bun in the oven with no man to marry?
- Not only was the band leader a poor singer, the singing style was totally wrong for the period.
- [quote]I want more Lord Gillingham! Don't go!
he'll definitely, most definitely return.
- [quote]His singing was so wrong for the period. Just so wrong.
he turns out to be a good chap, the biggest pity is that they got an actor who really couldn't sing convincingly.
- The slutty lady's maid. Edna. I had to look up her name because she's not really very memorable. She's just an amateur conniving bitch. She's no O'Brien, that's for sure. What really was the purpose to bring her back, only to have her leave prematurely. Is this just to waste time? Poor storytelling.
- [quote] Jazzy Jack pinged to high heaven.
Indeed. And I was shocked at how BAD his singing was.
- [quote] What really was the purpose to bring her back, only to have her leave prematurely. Is this just to waste time? Poor storytelling.
Unfortunately, Downton is full of that kind of thing. They bring in characters to drive some minor plot point which doesn't really go anywhere, and then they leave when their job is done.
- Reading this thread, it's as if you're all cursed to watch this show you absolutely hate and you just whine and whine about it but keep watching it.
If you really hate it, why are you still watching it? You do have the choice not to watch.
- I found it a fun episode, if only for the exchange between Thomas and Edna
- Who said we hate it, R293? Personally, I love it. Flaws and all.
But this IS Datalounge. We bitch about everything here.
- [quote] Not only was the band leader a poor singer, the singing style was totally wrong for the period.
His speaking voice is also completely wrong. He doesn't sound in the least bit like a black American singer from the 1920s. He's obviously not American and I'd be shocked if he were a singer.
I'm sick of British TV not using American actors to play American parts, yet we allow Brits to play Americans on our TV sets. It seems only female "Americans" born in the UK or married to male UK actors/producers can work there.
- James was simply divine as Jimmy in Thoroughly Modern Millie, doing the tapioca with Julie Andrews. Love it.
- Who said we can't hatewatch tv, R293? You?
- I love lady Mary's clothes
- R293, pretending to the Voice of Reason doesn't work here. It just leaves you looking like a waspish snipe. If you don't like what people post on a thread, why do you think it's appropriate to instruct them not to do what is the essence of critical discourse? Why don't YOU go somewhere else?
I detest this show, because it represents a waste of potential and resources based on underestimating the audience and overestimating the egomanical writer's/creator's skills, taste and discretion. Its lack of historical accuracy or true understanding of the cultures it offends may be typical, but not with such an evident capacity to afford doing things right.
Sunday's episode alone contained a ridiculous rape of a married lady's maid by a visiting valet (a rabid psychopath like that would have been tagged long before), an inappropriate characterization of Melba - who would NEVER have been relegated to dine in her room in 1922, much less 1902, an impossible American black-singer's (who can't sing) dance with the granddaughter and niece of an earl in a nightclub that could only have existed attached to a major hotel, a widow's impropriety of dancing in her weeds, a lady's maid in the bedroom with the master and the wife, undressing the wife and being included in the conversation - the list of horrors seems to be as long as the episode. Never mind, too, that the cook would not have had palpitations from such a dinner, that at the time (and now) Edith's beau would not have had to give up British citizenship to take on a German one (Britain accepts dual citizenships and always has), and the mix of primary, secondary and lapsed mourning in dress and decorum was dizzying. No wonder Mary danced. She and the whole bunch would have been obvious lunatics at the time. I wouldn't be surprised it the whole series ends with the revelation that it all was the fantasy of the crazies in a wing of Bedlam.
Josephine Baker may have been dancing with earls in Paris by 1926, but that is quite another thing.
I watch it - usually with the sound off unless Maggie Smith or Penelope Wilton is in the scene - because of the set and costumes. At least, as it skimps on reasonable and interesting plots, it doesn't skimp on props and decor.
- [quote] I watch it - usually with the sound off...because of the set and costumes.
- They only had the black bandleader/singer to rip off Stephen Poliakoff's Dancing on the Edge, surely?
- [quote]and the mix of primary, secondary and lapsed mourning in dress and decorum was dizzying.
Please, will SOMEONE fetch the smelling salts, Now!
- [quote]and the mix of primary, secondary and lapsed mourning in dress and decorum was dizzying.
OK, this is the Mary!-est statement that has ever... EVER... been posted on DL.
- Mourning practices had greatly changed and become less standardized in the UK by 1923 (when this season takes place). The old Victorian customs of mourning were still in evidence among some more conservative members of the upper classes, but they had gone greatly out of fashion after the change in social attitudes after the first World War.
It is completely unsurprising given how some of the Crawleys would still be clinging to some old customs (such as distinguishing between primary and secondary mourning--in the first episode this season it was suggested that Lady Mary exchange black for mauve, the color of secondary mourning clothes, and she refused), and some would be ignoring them, just as the Crawley family members have also been in disarray about adhering to other old Victorian customs (such as mixing at dinner with the lower classes). If all the members of the family (even this upper-class one) were shown as strictly following established Victorian (or even Edwardian) mourning practices in 1923, it would make no sense at all.
Some good books on the subject:
*Jay Winter, Sites of Mourning, Sites of Death
*Philippe Aries, L'Homme devant la mort
*Geoffrey Gorer, Death, Grief and Mourning in Contemporary Britain
- I'm impressed, I love how this thread has brought out the cognoscenti
- Yes, yes, of course, R304. But you seem to have missed my post about my perfumery/aromachology experience enabling me to prepare an ideal blend of leather, agarwood and castoreum (beaver-gland-derived) to be suitable for an S&M bear friend of mine, who was so happy he broke my ribs in a hug, so you don't necessarily know from Mary.
But the underlying point I made remains accurate (if you ever got around to considering the content of the comment rather than your posed response to its intentionally mannered style), which was the bald-faced inaccuracy of the show's overwrought pretensions impeding on its enjoyment. These kinds of errors leave the show an unintended burlesque.
One would expect better than a parody from a baron proud of his deputy lieutenancy whose wife, a herself a Victorian Order Lieutenant , has received a special warrant from the queen to receive a place of precedence above her inherited station, and who serves as a Lady in Waiting to Princess Michael of Kent.
And, R305, your comments are accurate as far as they go, but it remains true that it would be considered - in Victorian, Edwardian or Georgian terms, a grave impropriety for a widow in black to boogaloo with her father's guests to a victrola. I assert its recognized inappropriateness in the current Elizabethan era as well. And, in a house pretending to maintaining order, under a paterfamilias sensitive to preserving standards beyond reason (my note on the absurdity of Melba's treatment, for example), a family presenting a mix-and-unmatched show of mourning is a bit unrealistic. The heir apparent to the earldom having died, all family members would, in an organized and respectful house, adopt the same level of mourning in a formal setting. But perhaps my personal experience in the matter is less casual than that of a television noble's brood. Although I do have my own library to fall back on, even if Aries' books and lecture notes on my shelves are all in translation.
By the way, mauve is not "the" color of secondary mourning. It is "a" color for such light or secondary mourning situations, among several. I know you know that, of course, but we wouldn't want others to be inadvertently misdirected on such a crucial matter.
As for the mixing of social classes, I can rely on my family's experience in America and Europe, in urban and rural settings, between 1910 and 1935, after which time circumstances changed, alas. Household sizes were set at about 12 servants. In no circumstance in my family's recollection, as standards changed, were the servants and the master's and mistress' families and guests "mixed" in the way shown on this television show, except for one reported case where an inebriated brother-in-law was caught chasing a housemaid around the dining table. Valets, lady's maids, governesses and the occasional companion fell into different a different category, naturally, but even there the extreme familiarity that pops up would have been unthinkable - and would have left the servants as uncomfortable as the family.
- What happens to the annoying new lady-in-waiting to the mother? The one who sleeps with the former driver?
- She runs off and joins the circus
- I think R300 got phobed by his sister in law.
- [quote]As for the mixing of social classes, I can rely on my family's experience in America and Europe, in urban and rural settings, between 1910 and 1935, after which time circumstances changed, alas.
How old [bold]are[/bold] you?
- That's not impossible to have parents who lived then
- I stopped reading R300 and R307 after the third sentence. Did either post ever get interesting?
- No, R313 they never did get interesting. Pretentious, but no interesting.
- Has there ever been an actress with a more unlikely star name than Joanne Froggart??
- Lady Sybil is coming back, raised as a vampire.
- R314, they were interesting enough posts, just longer than your Tweet-sized brain
- [quote]I stopped reading [R300] and [R307] after the third sentence. Did either post ever get interesting?
No, some queen was just trying to play "Let's pretend I'm from the aristocracy." No one bought it.
- There is so, so, much crap on TV. Downton is in the top 5% of quality programming whether you buy the plot lines, like the scripts - or not. There is so much else on TV to bitch about that deserves it, I don't get the Downton hate in here. It seems excessive to me.
- Downton is losing the plot. Hated the last series.
- Downton is getting better and getting better and better
- How old would these character be in the present day?
- dowager countess Violet would be in her seventies at least in 1923 thus making her around 150 years old now
- r323, that means Maggie will last at least till WWII!
- is that what she meant?
- "tweet-sized brain", I love it.
- I can't wait to WATCH
- It just feels like NOTHING is happening this year. What a snoozer his season is so far.
- Why the fuck are they spending so much time on Mosley?
- because he's the HOTTEST
- Well you're just being cruel, R331.
And if you're serious... yikes.
- the Mary Suitors spice things up quite a bit a bit later
- Re Molesley: Why are they so mean to him? Isobel insisted she couldn't find work for him, but immediately insisted that the dowager take on some kid nobody knew from Adam.
Carson wholly accepts Thomas' homosexuality in a day and time when it was illegal and regarded as a sign of low morals and a perversion. No biggie, says Carson. I don't like it but hey, that's the way you were born. Nothing to be done about it.
He also knew Thomas and O'Brien were a pair of vipers but hey -- whatever, you know?
Carson also forgives the man who stole his girlfriend and who tried to blackmail him.
But Molesley? Carson can't stand the guy. Loves humiliating him in private and in front of others. Loves to make him crawl.
Why? Molesley's a minor blowhard. He's never done anything even close to the shit Thomas and O'Brien have pulled. He never threw hissy fits like Daisy has. He's never complained nonstop like Mrs Patmore has done. He never fucked the boss's daughter like Branson did.
I'm not sure, but I think Fellowes intends that we are to be greatly amused by his treatment by others. But it's just stupid and uncharacteristic.
And I guess now that Anna has told bates what happened, her PTSD is all over with and she'll just go right back to having sex with her husband. Because once you tell your husband you've been raped, the physical and psychological trauma you suffered goes away and you're fine.
- Are you saying this show is just a cheesy soap opera with plot holes and shit writing?
- That tenant farmer guy is hotter than hell
- [quote]He's never done anything even close to the shit Thomas and O'Brien have pulled.
Because he won't follow protocol correctly.
- If Julian Fellowes were a more nuanced sort of writer, we wouldn’t feel the need to ask this question, but after this last episode, we have to wonder. Does he realize he’s writing Mr. Bates like an ominous, dangerous, dark figure? Because he seems to think he’s writing him as a loving, supportive, moral man.
But what’s coming across onscreen is that all of Mr. Bates outward gentleness and support is merely a facade covering up the dangerously violent man who apparently lurks underneath. To be honest, we’d love it if this was Fellowes’ intent and the story was going to explore more of this.
The idea that Anna may have made a mistake in marrying Bates is something the show never even hinted at before, but if they really had the balls to explore it, their relationship – which has been both full of ridiculous roadblocks and at the same time curiously boring – would be rendered in a much more interesting light.
But we’re not fools. That’s not where Fellowes is going with this. He may be toying with Bates’ dark side this season – and we are appreciative of that, because he’s been so saintly and put-upon in the past – but it’s still being presented as part and parcel of the “Mr. Bates, Good Husband” mode of thinking about the character. In other words, Fellowes gets to toy with the idea of a murderous Bates while still making him look like a supportive and loving (if no longer saintly) character. This has probably been the most frustrating thing about Downton Abbey as a series; Fellowes’ unwillingness to let any of his characters (except for the mustache-twirling villainous types) look too bad in the long run. He always skirts right up to really delving into someone’s dark side and then backs off from it.
Robert’s behavior on the night of Sybil’s death was so awful that it should have forever cast him as an imperious, snobbish dolt of a man, but instead great care was made to ensure us that he’s really not so bad and besides, he feels really terrible about it. Then it never got mentioned again. This pattern plays out over and over again. Look at Mary. Sure, every once in a while someone calls her on her bullshit, but for the most part, everyone glosses over the fact that she’s been a shallow bitch over and over again; especially in her romantic dealings with men, and she glides into most scenes, secure in her place as the heroine of this tale.
Or take Tom, who is, by our way of thinking, easily the most interesting “upstairs” character right now and who has been rendered disappointingly bland and obsequious by Fellowes. You could write an entire series of epic novels based on the Irish revolutionary who married into English aristocracy, lost his wife, and wound up living a life he not only never saw for himself but actively despised for the entirety of his previous life. That’s some meaty stuff right there.
But instead he dances with bejeweled dowagers at fancy parties and takes tea in the library with great ease and even skill, despite his protestations of discomfort. And even that would be something interesting to explore; this idea that under it all, he’s something of a hypocrite who loves the high life too much to cling to his former beliefs. But all Fellowes is doing with the character is showing him quite happily ensconced on the estate – but sporting a slightly furrowed brow. Dressed in gorgeous tweeds or white tie and tails – but ever so concerned about it. Sure, he’s talking about moving to America, but let’s see a show of hands: who thinks that’s really going to happen?
No, he’ll wind up living in Crawley House or something, but he’s not going to leave the estate. He’ll stay and always pay lip service to the idea that he’s an outsider. And to be honest, he really should be more of one. The way the family treats him as a son is very sweet to watch, but kind of hard to believe. They seem even more protective of him than they were of Matthew, who was the heir apparent.
Anyway, back to the Bates marriage and its latest set of problems. We’re vaguely uncomfortable (but not at all surprised) that Anna’s rape has
- [quote]Because he seems to think he’s writing him as a loving, supportive, moral man.
no, he's writing for him to be dark and foreboding.
[quote] who has been rendered disappointingly bland and obsequious by Fellowes.
I agree, he's merely eye-candy now
[quote]We’re vaguely uncomfortable (but not at all surprised) that Anna’s rape has. . .
- I wish r338 would continue to post his thoughts on Downton. His take on the show is entertaining and insightful and I totally agree with him. Or her. I would really like to hear his/her opinion on why Carson is so downright cruel to Moseley. I like the new Lady's maid. She's keeping her cards close to the vest. I missed the beginning of Sunday's episode due to the Grammys. What is her connection to Thomas?
- R340, then you should check out tomandlorenzo dot com where that piece was partially cut and pasted from. They do insightful recaps after every episode.
- R340, the new lady maid is interesting and we never do find out what her connection with Thomas is, even by the end of the season. But Mosley plays a strong part in it
- I don't think Fellowes is smart enough to have figured out what Baxter's relationship is to Thomas.
And what's with Thomas's "Changes are coming to Downton and I must know what they are! You must spy every minute of the day and report back to me!" moustache-twirling? He's got a secure position. The most he can ever hope for with regard to Downton is that he becomes the butler when Carson retires. He's not got the experience to be an estate agent.
And what's with the secrecy of the guy who's going around looking at various great country houses and how they're faring after the war? The Crawleys were all "ooooh, what's the deal with the other houses?" as if they were business rivals with other estates. Thats retarded. Country estates were vast. They weren't trying to defeat each other through business practices of animal husbandry, farming, wool-spinning, rent-raising, etc. it's such a false story line. And if it turns out that Thomas is spying on Downton for the aristocratic owners of some other estate so they can be business rivals, they should just throw in the towel.
I'll watch til the end of the season, but I don't know if will return next season. I'm done with for Homeland, which won this winter's Olympics for TV Show Slide Into Inanity . I said I was finished with The Walking Dead after Season Two and in Season Three, people on DL were all, "Oh it's GREAT again! The writing is much better. The characters are not one-dimensional idiots who keep repeating stupid behavior and are no longer suddenly acting contrary to their established morals and personalities."
Yeah, right. That was wishful thinking. I tuned back in to see Andrea acting completely contrary to her established character and behaving like an idiot. I tuned out again after learning my lesson.
There are so many smart writers out there who could be working on scripts, but TV viewers allow shows to become retarded by still watching them long after they slid into the snake pit. TV could do so much better.
How about giving Lady Mary some WIT if she's going to be so prickly? I find the character dull, repetitive, self-centered and boring. She only ever mopes around Downton insulting people under the guise of forthrightness. She has no depth, no education, no intellect, no spark and she never has, even when happy with Matthew (god knows what he saw in her). She could be an Edmund Gorey character. Think if the women in Howard's End, in Jane Austen adaptations, in Dickens' stories, Agatha Christie stories, in Cranford, Lark Riseand other tv and movie adaptations and compare them to Mary Crawley, the Morticia of Downton. These other females do more than roam around complaining, rebuking, insulting and looking for a man. She's a drab Debbie Downer in nice clothes. And Edith is a big nothing. All she ever does is hang with her bf, who us inexplicably in love with her dull personage. She's a writer who doesn't write anything.
Tom is a socialist in a tux and tweeds who expresses a socialist opinion once in a blue moon and who never speaks convincingly of why he believes in socialism. Gregory the Aussie on Upstairs Downstairs could knock off two sentences to explain to Hudson why he was a socialist and you fully understood him in the context of his world, plus he proved Hudson wrong. Bada bing. That's how you write a character.
This show could be soooo much better
- Ouch, but I have to agree with most of your post, R343. Especially what you wrote about Thomas, who's lucky to be still under Downton's employ at all after his disastrous try at black-market sundries during the war years.
I'm also beyond tired of the Anna/Bates sorrow and pathos. Not that Anna should "get over it" (the rape) but that the writers went that way in the first place, dragging the couple, and thus dragging us viewers, through yet another LONG season of relentless and protracted sad-and-bad where those two are concerned. One such season was enough.
- [quote]How about giving Lady Mary some WIT if she's going to be so prickly?
I actually like it that she is so unapologetic. nearly all viewers require their female leads to be long-suffering angels or bitches. She gives us neither, which I think is a bit more nuanced.
- Sorry -- Edward Gorey.
- I hate the Tom and Lorenzo shill. he likes to blather all over the Mad Men threads too.
- at least finish the quote, not cut it off in the middle
- But Isobel is also unapologetic, R345, and she's a better character than Mary. She at least gets out of herself and the little aristo world she lives in. Mary never does. It's all Downton and men with her.
All the Crawley girls were/are all about their men. This was understandable before there was a male heir, but how about moving outside of that now? If Edith cares so much about women's rights, why isn't she out campaigning for them? Why doesn't she surprise someone and say, "I want to be a real writer and go to university and meet people who gave been out in the larger world" instead of cocooning herself in country houses and trips to Aunt Rosamund's and her luvvah's office in London? It's 1923, not 1903. Why does Edith show no interest in anything but her married boyfriend?
And Rose will now become almost-involved with an American black singer, another nothing of a story leading nowhere. Why isn't she visiting friends her own age by going on country house weekends or in London? Why don't any of these Crawley girls learn to drive, which wealthy young women did in 1923? It was a daring, exciting thing to do and gave them unprecedented freedom. Women were breaking all kinds of rules in the 1920s and it wasn't just about seeing boyfriends. The whole post-war society was changing. But the only changes we see at Downton are electric mixers, toasters and refrigerators. And a phony baloney anachronistic black singer.
- Why doesn't Rose have any friends her own age? Was she brought up in a test tube? And doesn't she have siblings?
- [quote]But Isobel is also unapologetic, [R345], and she's a better character than Mary. She at least gets out of herself and the little aristo world she lives in. Mary never does. It's all Downton and men with her.
I agree about Isobel, she really comes into her own. Mary steps out a bit too, but later in the season.
- [quote]Why don't any of these Crawley girls learn to drive
Edith notable did.
- But Edith is still being driven by a chauffeur when she's going up to London to see her bf. She should be driving herself to her liaisons. I mean sheesh, Tuppence Berensford, Miss Georgina and other young women drove around in the 1920s. Think how much money it saved on chauffeurs.
If Isabella Duncan had been driving, she might not have leaned so far back in her seat and she may have lived a good deal longer. (She was learning to drive at the time, but hadn't yet mastered the art of motoring)
- they can be. and it is affected.
- [quote]But Edith is still being driven by a chauffeur when she's going up to London to see her bf. She should be driving herself to her liaisons. I mean sheesh, Tuppence Berensford, Miss Georgina and other young women drove around in the 1920s.
They were not peers' daughters.
I would seriously doubt Lady Edith knows how to drive.
- I had hopes that Edith would have "popped" into something more interesting by now as a character -- there was a hint of it with her ultra-hip (for its time) Marcel-wave hairstyle and her willingness to go to a jazz club early on. I wanted her to become a suffragist activist or something like that, and get into interesting fights with her father.
But no. More of same. Sad bird-faced Edith needing a man, needing a man, needing a man and striking out again, and again, and again. Yawwwn.
- [quote]I wanted her to become a suffragist activist or something like that, and get into interesting fights with her father.
This season takes place in 1923 (last season took place in 1922).
Suffrage was extended to women in 1918.
- Thanks, R357, good point. Still, my complaint is that the writers could have done something evolutionary and interesting with Edith's character. Her early adoption of that hairstyle threw me, I thought she was gonna be one to watch, not tiredly roll eyes at.
- you may be disappointed in the rest of this season then.
- Did you mean Isadora Duncan, r353?
- Is Edith pregnant? And why has she moot heard from her married boyfriend???
- R355 Lady Edith DOES know how to drive. She learned to drive in Season 2, over Lord Grantham's objections. Not only was she driving cars, she was driving tractors and helping out on the farms because the farmhands were all at war until she was caught kissing a married farmer. On this episode, she didn't drive to London because she was taking the train. The Downton people always take the train to London. She was driven to the train station so the car could be returned to the abbey for others to use. Pay attention!
- I know what happens with Edith and can't wait to discuss the WTF of it.
Think of all the things a rich young woman could be doing in the 1920s and Fellowes gives her a repeat of a housemaids story. WTF, how LAZY can Julian Fellowes ass be? And how can this show continue it boring, repetitive stories and still be a hit?
I know, I know -- the Walking Dead has been repeating its boring stories for years and is a huge hit. It's not just DA. In a country where Duck Dynasty was a certified cable hit for at least 4 years, this is what we get.
But then I see a show like Breaking Bad or The Shield or The Wire and I'm all, "How did they do that so well? It's a miracle!"
Hire those writers, goddamn it, and fix DA and Homeland.
- So why isn't Edith helping out with the farm? She was good at it and liked it. She could fuck one of those brawny Yorkshire farmer lads for fun and show Mary up in the animal husbandry department.
There were all kinds of scientific studies being done on food and farming methods at that time, BTW. Particularly because so many men who had been farmers and farmhands were killed in WWI and because the WWI rationing system had fallen short of keeping the general population healthy. The WWII rationing system in Britain was much better because of the between-the-war interest in farming and food production. Downton Abbey could have hired a couple of agricultural college grads to help them modernize. Inject some more characters and life into this moribund series and make it more than a paper doll fashion show.
- I would love to see Dana Brody show up at Downton Abbey. She and Mary could have a contest to see which is the more boring, spoiled brat. Mary would definitely win the Best Groomed category. It would be a tossup to see if Mary or Dana would win the Loser Boyfriend segment. Poor Mr. Pamuk was better-looking than Dana's fratricidal bf, but since poor Mr Pamuk died, I think that's an automatic win in the loser category.
- R363,please post it on the "Spoilers Only" thread!!!
- [quote]She was good at it and liked it. She could fuck one of those brawny Yorkshire farmer lads for fun
by the end of the season it seems like that will soon happen
- Why are some of the ladies maids called by their last names (O'Brien, Braithwaite) and some by their first names (Anna)??
- I don't get why Lady Edith can't bale hay and tend the livestock. That would be so much more interesting on a show of this kind! People would love to tune in every week and see that.
- [quote]we never do find out what her connection
Seems to be a common theme with this show.
- Love it this season. And all you pretentious sophisticates who fashionably whine about it are, well, pretentious sophisticated assholes.
Oh Downton Abby is terrible this season.
Oh Homeland is terrible this season
Oh American Horror Story is terrible this season
Oh The Walking Dead is terrible this season
Oh (fill in the blank) is terrible this season
- I gather the rule is lady's maids and valets are called by their surnames. So Anna and Bates would have been Bates and Bates and to 'avoid confusion' they decided to keep calling Anna by her given name.
Now more to the point, what kind of fucking psycho is Anna married to? I loved Bates in Season 1 when he was the humble cripple. Now he's being swinging dick man prepared to kill all and sundry... who the fuck does he think he is? Hate Bates now. Anna's OK. Carson was a dick to Moseley.
Mrsssss. Hughes and Patmore rock.
- I've come to love that actor who plays Alfred, the footman who wants to be a chef. He's very real and un-actor-y.
- Funny, last night I really liked Alfred, too.
And whenever Maggie Smith giggles like she did last night, I laugh and laugh.
Last night's episode was pretty good overall, best so far in my view.
- "Alfred" reminds me of "Todd" from "Breaking Bad," both in looks and mannerisms.
- The very first season was the best, hands down.
- [quote] all you pretentious sophisticates who fashionably whine about it are, well, pretentious sophisticated assholes.... Pretentious bullshit
And you're such a mature, erudite thinker. Big vocabulary, too.
- Thomas needs to present his hole!
- I'm liking this season -- much more than last season anyway.
And I love having Molesley debased and disappointed. It's very entertaining.
Some of you need to understand that drama needs conflict and that if you just 'like' all the characters there won't be much conflict.
- Molesley's self-deprecating remarks are hilarious.
- Having seen the whole season, I think it's actually the best yet. I hated losing Dan Stevens, but I think the show has moved to a place where his very absence is an important motivating force. And I love the way the characters are developing. Both Mary and Edith have become much more sympathetic. And the queen above who complained that they've given Edith "a housemaid's problem" misses the fact that an earl's daughter having a housemaid's problem is drama in itself.
- [quote]So Anna and Bates would have been Bates and Bates and to 'avoid confusion' they decided to keep calling Anna by her given name.
Lady Mary quips this in season three, so yes
- Nothingfog any interest at all has happened this season.
- Stop criticizing one of my favorite stories. I've been watching my stories for years and this one has the best costumes. Most of the characters are pretty or handsome and they are really fine people or interesting villains, so stop asking them to be perfect. Why should they be perfect? Why should anything be perfect? Of course nothing is perfect so just shut it or stop watching. I'm tired of people complaining about this story, it's very good and the characters are so interesting and complex.
People who criticize should write their own tv shows. Yeah, sure I'll bet you can. CAN'T. Your so brilliant but you can't write for tv. Julian Fellowes is a genius and you are just jealous.
- [R. 384] You're (as in "you are") so right!
- Thank you.
Look how complex the characters are, for example some are Irish Catholics, some are rich, some are not rich and one is a black man. Their stories are very complex, like about falling in love and getting married or not getting married but falling in love anyways and just living that way.
Then there are the hilarious parts like Mr. Molsey and dowager dutchess. I like how the dowager dutchess felt bad for Matthew's mother and was nice to her so that Matthew's mother would come back to be her old self so dowager dutchess could say mean, funny things to her again as if nothing happened. Just like real life!
- It's just a soap opera with costumes now. And one of those unsatisfactory soaps where the characters don and shed personalities simply to advance the plot. It really isn't worth the degree of analysis some of you devote to it.
It's idea of tackling changing times is Mrs. Padmore's trouble with electric devices. WWI came and went and does not seem to have left a mark on DA or its residents. But a refrigerator!!!
- we can keep the characters chilled that way
- Cora has to be the most underwritten character on the show. And that's no mean feat.
- The whole basis for the series was ridiculous. The entailment was stupid, the fact that Rbt wouldn't challenge the entailment was stupid.
- Sorry, but it is ludicrous.
Aristocrats with hearts of gold. At what point do they take in a couple of black kids from Harlem named Willis and Arnold?
And R384's post was so ridiculous and over-the-top, I thought it was a parody of what an idiot fan would say.
The writing is hackneyed and incomplete. "Oh, let's throw in this new character... now watch him/her go away without any explanation."
- It's a great idea, badly written. Uncle Julian is more hype than anything.
- it's really very pretty
- What Downton Abbey really needs is a beautiful tranny
Would you settle for one of the present handsome male characters to don drag?
- I think the tenant farmer is a pocket gay and he'll convince Tom that they should lie together in the hay. Hey, that rhymes!
- I wish, he's really really hot
- Parody? Why?
It's a beautiful show with handsome men and pretty women and the best costumes. And the setting is much better than even Llanview.
There is love and romance and unexpected pregnancies, adultery, murder trials and imprisonment, villains and heroes, antiques, vintage women's hairstyles, men wearing tweed caps, butlers, cooking, lots of unexpected deaths and nice new babies. There is lots of intrigue from Barrow who can be really nice and humble one minute and then really mean the next and there's suspense because we don't know why he's doing it. (No spoilers!!!!)
Lady Edith is a charming, well-written character who was mean in the beginning but now she wears awesome flapper clothes and is all YOLO with her interesting boyfriend who has a newspaper and a crazy wife and is becoming German because of his undying love for her. They are like Romeo and Juliet. I love them!
Anna and Bates are also a great love story who, after overcoming adversity like war, leg injury, jail and rape, finally have their own cottage.
- Lots of handsome gents
- So often it's said that a series premiere episode is bad because it spends all it's time setting up the characters and situations but in this case everything has consistently gone downhill since the premiere.
- It's been pretty good so far
- [quote]The entailment was stupid
Bite your tongue.
- Lots of people depend on the crawleys
- R402 the show is more subtle this season. Everything comes together in the final episodes. It's more realistic, less crazy coincidence in drama every week.
- Bring some bearded American rednecks with guns into the series - that's what it needs.
- that comes when Shirley MaClain returns
- And Paul Giamatti. They both are strangely effective.
- and Dolly Parton, she really gives them all a whirl!
- I think Shirley's character is obnoxious and a wasted opportunity. At least in her first visit. I hold out limited hope for her return.
- She looks like a hag
- I wanted Cora's brother to make Thomas his mistress.
- I still want to know what the heck thomas was so pleased about in NYC.
- [quote] I still want to know what the heck thomas was so pleased about in NYC
- He would, wouldn't he. he probably humped them.
- But our Shirley passed up a title and ended up playing Dolly Levi for destitute aristocrats.
- She indeed did
- "They both are strangely effective."
Are you serious? Paul G was awful in that part.
- Your opinion, R418 and you're in the minority. The critical response to his performance was strong, and rightly so. He took an unpleasant exterior and subtly made him more interesting and empathetic. Say what you will about the distracting storyline, but he was great in it.
- I agree
- Just exactly what does Thomas do in that household besides lurking in corners, smoking?
I can't remember the last time we saw him actually perform any duties.
Forcing (or blackmailing?) the new ladies maid to spy for him on all the household intrigues is just lame. Hard to believe he had the best story line in the original pilot.
- He;s under-butler, that's his job to gossip and that is what eventually led to the DL.
- The trouble with Shirley Maclaine is that she only does a cameo star turn. She has nothing to do with any actual plots. She just shows up, trades bitchy quips with Maggie Smith, compares things in England to how things are done in America, and leaves.
She could AT LEAST deliver a curse on someone, like Elizabeth Taylor on General Hospital. Then there would be a reason for her being there.
- I think Thomas might be a vampire.
- R423, she's the mother-in-law, that is reason enough.
- [quote][R423], she's the mother-in-law, that is reason enough.
I'm sure that's also Julian Fellowes' thinking, and it's such bullshit. It's lazy, lazy, lazy writing.
- Gather 'rounds girls, I just got off the phone with a friend who is daughter of one of the writers, and I heard clearly in the background, that Thomas is going to take on a lover, who happens to be a prince, and they will rent a room at the house. The staff will cast their eyes upward and snicker, knowing what Thomas is up to. And apparently the happy couple will soon adopt twins! It will turn out that Thomas is the illegitimate son of Lord Grantham!
- [quote[It's lazy, lazy, lazy writing.
write him and tell him what you think
- [quote][quote[It's lazy, lazy, lazy writing.
The very definition...
- I like it
- Poor little Sybbie has a bad case of tard face.
- She did, but that Mrs Crawley is fierce!
- The blank stare, the confusion. Early onset dementia?
- The I moveable facial expression. Parkinsonian?
- Why no, it's just the baby takes after Grandma Cora. She has the same slack look of progressive cluelessness
- Daddy is awfully cute
- What's happened to Julian Ovenden's hotness? He's resembling Oscar Wilde lately.
- he forgot his makeup