- I saw that. Thought it might be interesting.
- It's HBO will they get naked?
- It's from Cary Fukunaga, the hot young director of Jane Eyre and Sin Nombre. He is hot.
- Do they play brothers again?
- The reviews are coming out now and make this sound like a masterpiece and McConaughey and Harrelson's performances like the second coming of Daniel Day Lewis. It premieres on Sunday.
Holy shit. This looks good.
- I love those guys, but this will rise or fall on the writing and secondary cast.
- Alan Sepinwall is in love.
- I've really started to live Woody Harrelson. He was always a good actor, but in the past year I've seen a lot of his indie type films and he is a great actor. I love and have always loved McConaughey. This should be a great show
- What a great premiere episode. The sinister atmosphere is wonderful, both actors give incredible performances, and Woody Harrelson is hilarious in a very understated way.
Bonus points for the Handsome Family song as the opener.
- I'm going to have to catch this streaming later this year or next... simply because I already watch too damn much on the same night, and can't squeeze this in (only 2 tuners on my DVR)
- Great pilot. The acting is brilliant.
- I really got hooked first show. The acting is great. So far absolutely love Harrelson's character and his performance.
- Love Harrelson's putdowns when McConaughey goes all new-agey on him.
From the first episode, I'm guessing McConaughey is the murderer and he and Harrelson became estranged because McBongo was fucking Woody's wife.
Much full-frontal nudity will ensue I bet.
- I have to say that I was blown away by the premier episode-- both Woody and McBongo were spectacular. What I really liked about the show was the marvelous comedic subtlety. It provides a great counter point to the creepy and depressing elements of the show. Woody in particular had some hilarious moments that he delivered with perfection.
I haven't felt this excited about a series in a long time. I'm really looking forward to next Sunday.
- Mcbongo was a rom-com joke a few years ago. Quite the transformation, no?
- I've always liked McBongo and am happy for his success.
- My mind might've wandered for a moment. What was the reason they became interested in the missing kid case? Did they explain?
- I think they just thought there might be a connection, right?
- Loving this so far.
- Wow! I just finished watching the pilot and it was amazing. Creepy atmosphere, great acting. I love it!
- It's pretty terrific. Harrelson is very good, but McBongo is proving himself a damn fine character actor (in this and other things) and the writing and direction were fascinating.
- Great first episode, very dark, foreboding, and well acted. And that's supposed to be one of the less stellar episodes of the season. Apparently, around the third or the fourth episode is when things really start to pick up.
- I thought MM was magnificent and Woody was great, though certainly not as far from his usual characters as MM was. I agree with Sepinwall that it'll be all about MM at awards season.
A little Top of the Lake, a little AHS, a little (hopefully not a lot) of Twin Peaks, Fargo. I'm excited.
- [quote] I already watch too damn much on the same night, and can't squeeze this in (only 2 tuners on my DVR)
As is the case for pretty much every original cable show, HBO repeats the episode later in the evening. And throughout the week, too.
- Hello R24? HBO GO?
- It was good, but I had some trouble staying focused due to the length and slow pace. I've watched so many shows of this ilk that it didn't blow my mind, but I will definitely keep watching.
- The setting was ugly but necessary: unfiltered, un-production-designed rural Louisiana as it really looks.
McConaughey and Woody Harrelson are both excellent actors: neither with the greatest range, but within their métier they are tremendous.
- Man, I thought it was great too. McConaughey was tremendous, really an intriguing character. Great to see him underplaying. Harrelson was great too. Great atmosphere. I think this is going to be really good. I thought I was done with serial killer television but if something is this well-acted and made, I can't ignore it.
- McConaughey got an Oscar nomination today. Good for him! He's done stellar work in about five movies in a row the past couple of years.
- he's a skinny minnie
- He is skinny. Maybe it was the weight loss for his role in Dallas Buyers Club.
- I think McBongo has lost his looks forever. When De Niro gained so much weight for Raging Bull and then lost it, he lost his looks - he'd been gorgeous before.
McBongo has turned out to be a great actor in the last couple of years though.
- I agree, great show. Super excited to see what happens next.
- Second episode... tits and bush, but not a single male ass. Dammit.
Okay, okay, it was a decent enough episode.
- Can someone esplain this show? It looks like True Blood without the vampires. Or Treme without the music.
- I think the acting and atmosphere is great but couldn't they get an age appropriate wife for Woody? She looks way too young for him and that hairpiece he is using is not making him any younger. They could have gotten an actress that didn't look 20 years younger than him. It' distracts from the story.
- I wikipediaed them. Woody's 52, Michelle's 37 and Matthew's 43. I'm presuming she ends up in many full-frontal nude scenes with McBongo so she's more age appropriate for him. Woody's looking a little worn though it's hardly surprising.
I watched this show and Sherlock tonight and couldn't figure out what the hell was going on in either.
- To those who can't figure out what's going on: it's 2012 and the black detectives are interrogating the detectives who solved the 1995 case of a ritual killing of a prostitute and put the people behind bars because they are working on a recent case that is exactly alike. They are trying to figure out the methods they used to solve the case, although it's too early to say if they are questioning them as a co-operative or a suspect.
- Thanks. From what I can figure out so far, they think McConaughey's the killer?
- R39, It's hard to tell this early, but it does seem like the cops in the present think McConaughey's the killer
- Matthew as the killer seems too obvious. It would be really creepy if it was Woody.
But I don't think they are viewing them as suspects yet. I think they mentioned that the records of the first killing was lost because of the flood or hurricane.
- No one watching?
Creepy, dark and the dialogue in this show is brilliant and sometimes funny. Matthew is mesmerizing in this role as the nihilistic detective. I didn't feel he deserved all these acting awards but this show now confirms that he has serious acting chops.
- Woody is brilliant. His comic timing is still intact. McBongo's character is a pain in the ass psycho. Weird that Woody's playing the sex-mad usually McBongo character and McB is playing a Woody whack job.
- Honestly, I'm out. I'm finding it really well acted, and just plain boring. I found myself browsing the web and listening to youtube music videos while this last episode played. I honestly just don't care about what's going on... it's moving so slowly.
- Yeah I wish something would happen. I'm bored with the interrogation scenes. The acting's great but a little action wouldn't be amiss.
I have to say Woody looks kinda hot in this with hair on. Some man-on-man with McBongo would be nice.
- I'm loving this show. That last shot in episode 4 was extremely creepy.
- Sorry I meant episode 3.
- The guy in the last shot looked like Walt in his gas mask and tighty whiteys. God I miss Breaking Bad.
- It's very well produced, love the cinematography and the music. I'm semi-interested in the story, but the episodes are just a bit too long and slow for my attention span. Also, why don't the killers in these kinds of shows ever go after anyone who isn't an attractive young woman?
- It's beautiful and moody, but pretentious. The show is just about screaming "We're no ordinary detective show! This is no ordinary investigation!" Yet beneath the HBO mumblecore, what do we have? A believer and a cynic on the trail of a serial killer who stages his kills according to some elaborate belief system. Can TD live up to its pretenses or not? The proof will be in the pudding, yet to be served; so far I enjoy it, but I suspect it will disappoint.
- I only binge-watch these days, so I'll wait.
- I'm enjoying it, it may be too slow for some people and not enough action but it's building up the characters and setting up the storyline, people....geez, this show is for thinking adults, not people with ADD. In fact, this script must have impressed a lot of people because there was a heavy bidding war among FX, Showtime and HBO for the series.
So far, this has the best written dialogue I've heard on TV so far.
- R52 so far my favorite part is Woody Harelson. He portrays himself as no-bullshit in the present and past, but we see he has a lot of bullshit going on under the surface. But there's a sense of humor about it. I think. more than McBongo's performance, Woody's is the show-stealer.
- I'll be pissed if they ignore the existence of gay people again. Too many of the top shows are set in a world where, gosh, there just doesn't happen to be any gay people around. As the Church Lady would say, isn't that conveeeeenient.
- I love this show. I agree it's moving a little slowly at times, but to me it feels like a long, slow buildup of suspense. There is a sinister feeling that is getting greater and greater.
Woody is hilarious in this. It's not hit-you-in-the-face funny, obviously. It's not a comedy. But his well-timed comedic bits are the perfect anecdote for the sense of dread.
I read somewhere that things really take off after episode 4 which I think is the next one.
- [quote]But his well-timed comedic bits are the perfect anecdote for the sense of dread.
- Very well done. But bleak, bleak, bleak in its view of humanity.
- I totally agree with you, R56. That is a terrible sentence.
- No idea, R49.
- [quote]Woody is hilarious in this. It's not hit-you-in-the-face funny, obviously. It's not a comedy. But his well-timed comedic bits are the perfect anecdote for the sense of dread.
Have you seen him in the Hunger Games movies? His role is smallish, but he steals "Catching Fire" with just a raised eyebrow.
[quote]I read somewhere that things really take off after episode 4 which I think is the next one.
My understanding is that the 1995 murder is solved next episode, setting the stage for really getting into the 2012 murder they're being interviewed about.
- I am "all in". Love it, and it is laugh out loud funny at times. Loved the line, "Who walks this fucking slow?" The cinematography in the scene of the guy with the crab traps was absolutely beautiful.
- R27, their métier is acting. Your last sentence doesn't make any sense because you used what you think is a fancy word without knowing its meaning.
- [quote]Matthew as the killer seems too obvious. It would be really creepy if it was Woody.
I don't about that, but I do like how every episode makes it clearer and clearer that Woody is the truly crazy one.
- On some website they are suggesting it's a Fight Club scenario and they are the same guy.
Zombieland, my all-time favorite Woody movie, was on yesterday. He is THE most underrated comic actor around. Why doesn't he get all the best comic leads instead of assholes like Ferrell, Stiller ad nauseam.
I'm still waiting for some full-frontal nudity from McBongo. I want to see what he looks like naked after DBC. I hope he didn't ruin that bubble butt. He was so beautiful in Mud.
- I've always had a crush on Woody. He was smokin hot back in the day.
- I lost it in the second episode. Too dark, dank and redneck for me. Cigarettes, beer, piss, bad breath and BO. I grew up in that environment and I can't understand why anyone is fascinated by it.
- I'm loving the show as well, but Woody's chewin' tobacca' accent is grating on me.
- There's something weird going on with Woody's daughter. The Barbie gang rape scene and porno drawings are really disturbing and I wonder how their going to play into the storyline. You would think as a cop Woody's character would be more concerned.
- Anyone notice Woody's wife said "It's me" when she called Rust?
- R68 you're right. I didn't catch that. Daddy must be diddling her.
Weird too the scene of Mc and the wife after he cut her lawn.
- I've just watched the first three episodes one after the other. I like it but have to say a very shallow thing: whoever does the wardrobe deserves a special Emmy for the way they have followed and highlighted the luscious contours of McBongo's ass.
And I think R68 and R69 win the prize for observation and perception. Those two issues are growing edges of this series, I'm convinced. I also agree with R63 that Woody's character, for all he never shuts up about McBongo's mental deviancy, is the one who is barking mad.
- R69 didn't notice that. McBongo seemed to be having very intimate conversations with the wife. Maybe I'm missing something. I do hope the next episode will feature extensive male nudity though.
- Good catch, R68. I think the child molesting may play a bigger role than we realize....Woody's wife may suspect and confiding in Rust?
Woody and Rust being the same person a la Fight Club would be too confusing.
- But if Woody had been abusing his daughter, wouldn't he be in jail and not be interviewed by the new pair of detectives 10 years later?
- [quote]But if Woody had been abusing his daughter, wouldn't he be in jail and not be interviewed by the new pair of detectives 10 years later?
That's assuming it comes to light.
Yeah, there's definitely something going on between Rust and Woody's wife. Not necessarily sexual, but twice now, Woody's walked in on them at a moment that suggested there was history there.
I had a nightmare last night about the guy in the tighty whities and gas mask. Scary shit. Right up there with BOB on Twin Peaks.
- I really want to start watching this.
- R75 I thought Woody's getting furious about Matt talking to the wife was just because as he has already shown, he may be screwing every woman in town, but he's insanely jealous if the gf or wife pay attention to other men. Maybe that's a clue.
Matt did seem to be confiding really intimate stuff to the wife but he does tend to ramble on to everybody he meets. I was wondering if Matt's character might be gay. He turned down the hooker who wanted to have sex with him. And he looked so ill at ease dancing with the woman in the bar.
- I got the message that the wife was just so desperate and starving for attention that she's ready to latch on to anyone who will talk to her like a human being.
- "True Detective" marked HBO's biggest debut since "Boardwalk Empire" in 2010, and when it returns for its second episode Sunday night (January 19), not only will viewers get more of the pitch-black murder mystery and great performances from Matthew McConaughey and Woody Harrelson, but they'll see Alexandra Daddario take on her most mature role to date.
The actress is known for her roles in the "Percy Jackson" series and the most recent "Texas Chainsaw Massacre," but on Sunday's episode, "Seeing Things," Daddario takes on a part that she described to MTV News as a "huge challenge."
As Lisa Tragnetti, Daddario plays the young woman who has an affair Detective Hart (Harrelson), and after just a brief appearance in the first of eight episodes, her role greatly expands in the second. Speaking with MTV News, Daddario recalled her decision to take on the role and how she approached her revealing scenes with Harrelson.
"I think one thing about this role for me was that it was a huge challenge for me, and I saw it as a good challenge. I saw it as an interesting challenge," Daddario said. "I really wanted to be part of the show, and I understood why the nudity and all of that was required of the character.... The character is really different from anything that I've done before. The nudity was just part of that."
On the day of the shoot, Daddario took comfort in her more costar, whose experience helped her through a situation that could have been awkward.
- In a way, watching this show is similar to reading a Donna Tartt novel: it is not about who has done something but about the motives that drove them to it. I don't think that we are in for some major twist, it will be either Cohle or Hart, but something unspeakably bad happened between them that will shed light on why they ended up where they are 17 years later.
- I can hardly understand half of what MM says, so I have some questions:
Did he say that he accidentally killed his young daughter... something about hitting her with a car? Did he mention a wife/kid's mother. I'd be interested to see what kind of woman he hooked up with.
He got hooked on drugs after his child died, right?
- When MM was talking about his daughter's death, he muttered something about her riding her tricycle in the driveway, then said at some point "they said she never felt a thing".
He also referred several times to the fact that the death destroyed his marriage, even saying that he and his wife went at each other.
He never said he killed his daughter, but I am assuming it is so. Is's obvious he is hauling around a ton of guilt. I mean that would be a good reason for the drugs and the self destructive behavior he exhibits.
- He said they lived "on a curve," which implies the daughter was killed in a road accident. I don't think Cohle was responsible.
- Tee hee
- R84 love it
- Those are funny, R84. Thanks.
- R83 I am sticking with the theory that he caused his daughter's death. Perhaps the comment about the curve explains how he was unable to avoid hitting her as he approached his driveway.
- I'm moist with anticipation for tonight's episode.
- It's really great tonight.
- It was great. My first time watching it, and I'll have to watch the other three to catch up. Matthew was hot as fuck. They must've taped these before he lost all the weight for DBC.
- MM was superb tonight, had me on the edge of my seat.
- The acting of woody and Matthew m is amazing. Some high quality shit. It does kind of go to show why they are famous movie stars.
- You can't understand tonight if you haven't seen...
- Matthew m as a dark twisted fuck is the hottest thing ever.
- I wish someone had spoilers.
- I think Marty is a bit twisted also.
- How long was that tracking shot through the projects? Holy crap.
- So far I've been underwhelmed, but this episode was incredible. Am I alone in finding Woody hot with hair? Matthew was brutally hot in this one. In this role, he's doing 3 different parts, young Rust, older Rust and now drugged-up to the gills Rust.
The tracking shot was incredible like something out of A Touch of Evil.
Only disappointment was HBO announced nudity and it was again a bunch of female strippers and not Matthew.
- That last shot was amazing.
- The previews show Marty asking the two black detectives what they got on Rust....so I think they suspect him of being the recent killer.
- I pretty much had no idea what was going on the last 20 minutes.
- Me neither, but I was scared! Can anyone give the cliff's notes version of the show so far?
- They're trying to get Reggie LeDoux (sp) the guy who may have killed Dora Lang and another girl the same way. They can't find Reggie because he escaped parole but now cooks meth for a biker gang. Rust knows the head of the biker gang when he worked undercover so he made a deal with him. The guy asked Rust to help rob a drug den in exchange for the whereabouts of Reggie. Of course, it was a stupid plan and Marty helped Rust and the biker guy escape.
- R103, I got that much, but I wasn't sure how or why all the cops were RIGHT THERE like that.
- Is it me or did the scary guy in the gas mask walk exactly like the Harrelson character? Marty even has a pot belly like the guy in the mask. And the guy in the mask has blonde hair. The two black detectives seem to think Rust had something to do with the murders but is that because Marty is leading them in that direction? And is he the real killer?
- Yeah, it did look like Woody. You understand Rust better after that episode, why he's so gloomy and such a control freak. He obviously had serious drug addiction problems and is trying to stay clean. Loved McC's acting the junkie. Great performance.
- I'm not seeing what other people are seeing in this show. From a technical standpoint, sure, it's well made. Woody and McBongo are serviceable in their roles. Otherwise, it's a very typical HBO drama pandering to their usual audience of straight guys, with ubiquitous titties in every episode.
- The guy in the mask can't be Marty unless he has tattoos all over his body which he doesn't! plus to looks like a younger guy.
- The biker with the red beard who grabbed McBongo's balls and forced him to take the meths and the coke, anybody else think McB had been his bitch? I'm sure Rust's gay.
- McB in an interview said the whole show is about figuring out who is telling the truth.
It looks like Rust is guilty of something, but is he?
- [quote]but I wasn't sure how or why all the cops were RIGHT THERE like that.
The area was already under surveillance, hence the helicopter at the beginning of the sequence, putting cars on alert.
- I love that MM is playing his character as a "close talker." He is all up in the face of the guy he is talking to at the moment.
- The tracking shot was six minutes long!
- Those" tatoos" looked like they were drawn on with magic marker, r108. I wonder if giving him a similar gait to Marty's is a red herring. Nothing about this show makes sense to me.
- I'm loving this show!
- I know this will be a very unpopular opinion, but for me this show is everything I wished Breaking Bad was. That's probably an unfair comparison in that BB was always pitched at a more crackling, outrageous pitch. But that last twenty-thirty minutes of TD last night, watching MM go completely off the rails; that didn't just entertain me, that hurt. It unsettled me.
- MM sniffed coke already when he stole it from the evidence lock-up room and sniffed it again with the bearded biker. Didn't seem to affect him. Then the biker forced him to sniff something else just after he grabbed MM's crotch in a proprietorial fashion and that stuff sent MM off the rails. What did he give him?
- The murdered victim's prison hubby said his roommate could mix up potent stuff. Remember, this biker gang has only one supplier, because the stuff is so good.The biker gave Rust whatever the guy he is looking for is cooking up.
- Maybe the daughter read Rusty's journal while he "cutting the lawn", hence the bizarre rape barbie scene. And maybe she's the killer now.
- I have a new level of respect for McBongo. He was fucking great in that episode.
- Why did MM shot ink and cayenne into his arm? Was it to pass himself off as a junkie when he met up with the biker friend, or a homemade way to get high?
- I was chanting "this is crazy" all during the drug ripoff sequence. That was Emmy worthy.
- Why does MM look hot on this show but not in real life?
- My main thought during the episode was: Damn, Rust wants to question Reggie Ledoux bad, to concoct such an elaborate undercover scenario. All that just to be able to interrogate someone who may be involved in a murder. He got several people killed and he doesn't even have concrete proof RL is the right guy.
- Did McBongo film this before Dallas Buyers Club or after? He's too thin in this one too but if he filmed it before DBC maybe his looks are suffering from the weight loss and weight gain now.
- He was trying to make track marks, r121
- [quote]My main thought during the episode was: Damn, Rust wants to question Reggie Ledoux bad, to concoct such an elaborate undercover scenario. All that just to be able to interrogate someone who may be involved in a murder. He got several people killed and he doesn't even have concrete proof RL is the right guy.
I think the whole "wanting justice for the dead girls" bit is only part of it. My theory is that he went off the rails in part because he just wanted to go off the rails. Ledoux was the justification.
- There was a scene of MM staring into some panel in the wall of his apartment. WH is living with MM at this point; he comes into the kitchen and sees him, but just walks by with the expression "this crazy guy"...
Later in the episode, WH is shown staring into this same panel, and he says something (I couldn't really understand what). What was that about?
- It was a tiny mirror, R128. I think it may be a meditation tool, but not sure.
- Rust completely believes Reggie is the killer, he's made up his mind.
I think they filmed this after Buyers Club.
- McBongo's hotness question. I think it's his haircut. He has a long face and that has been accentuated by losing weight and the haircut he has now. He still needs to gain back 20 lbs. I guess he didn't gain it back yet because of Interstellar and his role in that which would be more appropriate for the actor playing it to be on the lean side. Haircut's terrible.
- The True detective Inside videos that accompany each episode really help with the storyline. You can view them on HBOGo which is free with HBO subscription.
Even so I am still confused. Was the clip from epidsode 3 with the guy walking with the mask a foreshadow of some time after episode 4? Initially I thought this must be the killer, but then when they went into the whole meth dealer as a potential suspect I thought maybe that is his cooking gear?
I need to go back and watch all the first 3 plus insiders. You know its a good show when you find yourself frozen in the chair not moving from start to finish. However, the plot can confuse the shit out of me at times, and I realize in later episodes something in a previous one that had a lot more meaning then I knew at the time I was watching it, so i am compelled to go back and rewatch. To me that is the underpinnings of a great mystery.
- It's the meth COOKER that they suspect, Reggie Ladoux. And that was indeed supposed to be him in the mask and tighty whities. MM tried to infiltrate the gang that he was cooking for. Ginger was one of the heads of that gang.
- Why does Ginger grab MM's crotch?
- I loved it when Rust says to Ginger in the car, "I'm tired of talking to you like a man!" And begins to punch the crap out of him.
- Rust sure loves to talk to guys with their faces just 3 inches apart.
- It just struck me that MM has such an Irish name but he looks and sounds the the epitome of southern redneck. I wonder how many years ago his people came to America; if he had grandparents who had a brogue.
- R137 there's a thing called the Wikipedia and the Google. McConaughey's of English, Scottish, Irish, Swedish and German descent. His mother is from New Jersey (she had a bit part in Bernie - a surprisingly hot 70 year old, must have been a raving beauty in her youth) and his father played college football for Bear Bryant and pro ball for the Green Bay Packers. He's a descendant of a Confederate general during the Civil War so the McConaugheys aren't recent immigrants.
Kinda funny he has no doubt a slave-owning ancestor as he's married to a black Brazilian. Though maybe he makes her slave around the house.
- Love this show, and McBongo is mesmerizing, but I am thinking subtitles would help! All that drawling and mumbling.
- People on TWOP are saying that this series is "full of Lovecraftian mythology". Huh? Where?
- This show makes me feel dumber than a box of barber hair. I admit that I only pay attention half of the time due to the dark subject matter. Still, I can appreciate the acting and gallow's humor. I will probably re-watch the series in the summer and it will all make sense and I will realize how brilliant is is and it will dawn on me that McConaughey has become one hell of an actor. Until then, I am mostly befuddled.
- HBO sent an e-mail out with a photo spoiler from episode 5 where Rust and Marty are carrying two little girls wrapped in blankets. I guess they get to Ledoux's hideout next episode.
- [quote]I am thinking subtitles would help!
Turn the close captioning on. I do. There are just some movies and shows, such as The Wire and the West Yorkshire-set Red Riding movies, that I just have to watch with captions. Hell, the Red Riding movies were even released with subtitles.
- I watch the show with subtitles as well, as I sometimes have trouble making out what some characters are saying!
- Well I guess Obama doesn't post on the DL otherwise this thread would be fuller.
The LA Times reports that he asked the head of HBO for the whole series to binge watch the last four episodes this weekend. He's obsessed with it.
- Obama has good taste. The show is like watching a novel unfold.
MM is mesmerizing.
- Just re-watched last week's episode. The Rust/Ginger relationship is so bizarrely homoerotic. "After everything I meant to you," MM practically coos as he leans in to sniff something off Ginger's hand. Heehee.
And that six minute shot is even more astonishing when you're not so caught up in the action and can just watch what they're doing. Does anyone know how they did the bit where they got over the fence?
- That 6 minute shot was astounding-- how they moved from one scene to the next and staged all the actors inside as well as outside in that entire block---starting from inside the house to the scene outside of people breaking in and then to the adjoining house and to the next and up towards the helicopter and back down again, etc. Must have taken a lot of staging and prepping. Kudos to the director!
I loved that scene where the camera enters a house filled with a gang members loading up and running outside while MM hides with Ginger. I don't know how they both climbed that fence but imagine they had to have steps to maneuver up otherwise the whole shot would have to be redone. But then again, I wonder how many times it had to be shot.
- [quote] there's a thing called the Wikipedia and the Google
Shame on R137 for failing to be sufficiently consumed by the meaningless minutiae of celebrity culture. Thank god for R138.
- I watched a MM movie this week on HBO called Killer Joe.
You simply MUST catch it. It also stars Gina Gershon,Emile Hersh and a couple others I recognized but don't know their names.
MM is Stupendous in this Friedkin movie from 2012. I'd never heard of it before.
If anyone else has seen it please post because I have a couple questions.
He's also butt naked in it with his glorious ass.
- I think Rust is gay or at least bi and the Ginger relationship, grabbing and holding onto Rust's dick, rather suggestive to say the least.
The long tracking shot was technically amazing. When I watched it a second time, it was astonishing that McC managed to do everything he was supposed to do in that scene and keep up his performance in a single tracking shot?
There are interviews with the director online about the shot. They couldn't use a stuntman for McC or the actor playing Ginger, they had to get over that fence themselves.
- KILLER JOE was quite good until the shitty non-ending. The British girl who played the slutty young girl was spectacular (I don't use the word amazing).
- Don't know how to link to another thread, so I'll bump the one with the memorable screen shots of MM naked in Killer Joe
- Yes, Killer Joe is excellent, R150. Thomas Haden Church and Gina Gershon were superb at playing white trash. McBongo was an excellent asshole. Hirsch was okay, but trying too hard to be hayseed.
- I love it.
I'm thinking some people are having a little trouble following because of the accents...and because they are slowly building a back story for the main characters. Most Americans don't have time for that shit.
- When I was a kid I could climb those fences but I didn't like to.
- The camera just seems to GLIDE over the fence. It's crazy. But I guess it's a steadicam (or whatever the modern day equivalent is).
I had a conversation with my brother about this show last night. He thought it was "okay" but that until last week, "nothing happened". I wanted to scream. EVERYTHING is happening in this show. Story is not just action and narrative. Dear God, how ADHD is our culture these days?
- I agree with R152... the "ending" (in quotes because it wasn't one) of Killer Joe was horrible.
It didn't end.
It merely stopped.
- Total crap and only proves, don't do David Lynch if you don't actually hire David Lynch.
- I read that an interview and the director was asked about the fence shot. He said they tried a ramp, but the shot was shaky or jumpy.
Apparently they had the brainstorm to harness the cameraman into a crane and that's how they got the gliding shot over the fence.
- Off topic, Obama has some interesting television viewing habits. Homeland and House of Cards I can understand but he also likes Breaking Bad, True Detective, Game of Thrones. The POTUS likes to go to the dark side:)
- I thought he only ask for Game of Thrones, it's the only one that I couldn't get into.
House of Lies is great.
- Replay of last week's amazing episode on HBO2 right now... new episode on HBO in 50 minutes...
- Damn this is so annoying. I want to watch the BAFTAs, TD, Downton Abbey. All on at the same time.
- Sundays ARE kind of crazy. They put all the good shows on Sunday night. Thankfully most of the cable channels re-run at least twice during the night, and then rerun during the week. I only have 2 tuners on my DVR, so that's the only thing that allows me to catch everything.
- I read POTUS is very into Boardwalk Empire also
- First half was pretty intense.... loved how the telling of the story was done over top what actually happened.
- Oh shit! It all went bad.
- What happened?
- Dang, Rust walking into that church or school had me on the edge like he was walking further into the dark side. Very scary.
- Everything went sideways.
- I just started watching it and it is the high point of Sunday TV.
- I just saw it but the DVR didn't record (damn Time Warner) so I can't re-play the preview for next week. Was it Maggie dancing around in sexy underwear? Was that her father Rust was interrogating?
Anybody have an idea what the hell the place Rust was in at the end?
- The dynamic between Marty and his older daughter is very unsettling; my guess is she was abused, possibly by him.
- Actually, having thought about it, I think the older daughter was molested by Marty's father in law, who may be the mysterious "Yellow King", the leader of a local satanic cult.
- It's looking like the Reverand Tuttle or his cousin the governor are at the head of some kind of satanic cult (recall the flooded school Rust visits was funded by Tuttle's ministry?). I think Marty's old daughter somehow was exposed to that cult, maybe through school or church (in one of the flashback scences the same spiral on the victim is on a drawing she did in their home, which is why Marty kept saying "It was right there in front of me" in reference to his daughter's connection to the murders). Also recall the disturbing drawings and barbie play Marty's daughter engaged in. She's somehow tied to this, but I don't think Marty abused her.
- The teenaged Maisie is played by the same girl who plays sociopathic Lizzie on The Walking Dead.
- Woody Harrelson overacts on this show. He really overdoes the clench-jawed uptight schtick.
- I think that's just the way his face hangs, r178. He looks relaxed off camera because of all the medicinal medicine he smokes.
- The One Literary Reference You Must Know to Appreciate True Detective
Two episodes into the series, True Detective dropped a reference to one of the strangest, most compelling tales in the canon of weird fiction: Robert W. Chambers' The King in Yellow, a collection of short stories published in 1895. Knowing this book is key to understanding the dark mystery at the heart of this series.
This collection of stories has influenced writers from H.P. Lovecraft and Raymond Chandler, to Robert Heinlein, Grant Morrison, Neil Gaiman and George R. R. Martin. The King in Yellow and his legendary city of Carcosa may be the most famous character and setting you've never heard of.
In fact, the more of the show you watch, and the more carefully you pay attention, you'll find a number of Easter eggs aimed squarely at hardcore fans of the weird fiction genre. I'll touch on a few of the more prominent ones, but I have a feeling the rest of the series will be a bonanza for true detectives of strange fiction.
The King in Yellow is a fictional play within a collection of short stories—a metafictional dramatic work that brings despair, depravity, and insanity to anyone who reads it or sees it performed. Chambers inserts only a few selected scenes from the play into his story collection, and all of them are from the first act. This act, we are told, is a bit of a honeypot, luring readers into the cursed text. If they read even the first few words of Act II they are driven insane by the revelation of horrible, decadent, incomprehensible truths about the universe.
Anyone familiar with Lovecraft's "cosmic horrors" should see the thematic similarity. For his unfortunate protagonists, the ultimate truths of the universe are too much for their overloaded minds to handle. It should not be surprising that Lovecraft incorporated Chambers's The King in Yellow into his overarching Cthulhu mythos, embellishing the elements of the story and adding the fictitious play to his growing bookshelf of equally fictional mythos tomes.
For many fans of weird fiction, the surprising appearance of this madness-inducing play into what ostensibly appeared to be just another police procedural was a bolt of lighting. Suddenly, the tone of the show changed completely, signaling the descent into a particular brand of horror rarely (if ever) seen on television. The first mention of the play comes in episode two when Rust Cohle, the cynical, nihilistic detective played by Matthew McConaughey, finds the journal of a young former prostitute, Dora Lange, who has been ritualistically murdered.
- "The King In Yellow" is available for free on iTunes bookstore.
- Thanks R180. That's fascinating!
- Was LeDoux a pedophile too, hoarding kids for himself and his fat crony? Or was he kidnapping kids to give to this group of devil worshipping shadow men?
I found it weird that Hart would shoot the guy who they've thought was a serial killer just cause he found those kids. Supposedly he's killed many others and killing him isn't gonna help help them find more victims.
- Marty lost it in that moment, R183. He regretted it moments later.
- Remember the groundskeeper at the school? Seems he is involved based on the weird twig things Rust found. The strange undies wearing creature that was previewed pacing around the compound didn't appear last night. Could that be him?
Is Rust being set up? And why did he disappear for 8 years? Where did he go? Does the slut daughter end up as a victim?
- Can someone please start a new 'Shameless' thread? The existing one won't open...
Sorry to interrupt.
- Wasn't Ledoux the monster we saw in the woods back in episode 3?
More great lines in this one after the crazy pussy one in 4. Captain of the slut squad.
I love this show.
- [quote]I found it weird that Hart would shoot the guy who they've thought was a serial killer just cause he found those kids. Supposedly he's killed many others and killing him isn't gonna help help them find more victims.
It kind of suggests that some of the theories upthread might be true; that Hart's daughter was somehow involved/molested by people in this hypothetical ring.
I watched the RED RIDING trilogy last week (as mentioned before, with the captions on) and this show seems headed into similar territory.
- I thought the actress playing Hart's tween daughter (not the slut) looked familiar. Holy small world: I read on the Walking Dead thread that Hart's kid also plays Lizzie the little psycho on WD.
- So young and already typecast as a psycho kid.
- Here are my theories. I think the falling out between Rust and Marty is bullshit. It was a ruse. So is Rust's alcoholism. Rust has actually been working deep undercover all this time. I wouldn't be surprised if he has completely infiltrated the circle of the Yellow King and it will probably be difficult for the current investigators to make sense of his seeming participation. It will be about that fine line that undercover agents walk. At what point does he go from investigating to participating?
- R191, shit, that sounds very believable. Now, can you look in your crystal ball to tell us if MM is going to appear nude in an upcoming episode? I need to see what's left of that glorious, glorious ass since his weight loss. A full-frontal would be welcome too.
- Dear God, how I wish, R192.
- I am from Louisiana and didn't even realize most people think the actors are mumbling....Sounds like normal speech to me. So...maybe I need speech therapy and did not know it...
Love the Woody charcter and the close-mindedness/smug/meannes of the other cops ---very typical of a certain type of redneck from around here.
I am also getting suspicious of the relationship between Woody and his older daughter- what is going on there? And yes it is a clue that he gets very angry when anyone steps on his territory?
I do not think Rust and Woody's wife are having an affair. I think she needs someone to talk to..
- Marty said his one biggest flaw was in attentiveness. I don't think he molested his daughter but he failed to see the signs that someone else may have been ( like the grandfather.)
- Interesting, R195. And the way the mom was standing by her daughter's door with a stricken look on her face, saying "it's only me, let me in" maybe lends some credence to your theory. Maybe daddy molested her as well.
- Great read for True Detective fans.
* * *
"The One Literary Reference You Must Know to Appreciate True Detective"
Two episodes into the series, True Detective dropped a reference to one of the strangest, most compelling tales in the canon of weird fiction: Robert W. Chambers' The King in Yellow, a collection of short stories published in 1895. Knowing this book is key to understanding the dark mystery at the heart of this series.
This collection of stories has influenced writers from H.P. Lovecraft and Raymond Chandler, to Robert Heinlein, Grant Morrison, Neil Gaiman and George R. R. Martin. The King in Yellow and his legendary city of Carcosa may be the most famous character and setting you've never heard of."
* * *
More at link - good stuff!!
- I doubt its anything as severe as molestation. I think his inattentiveness was simply not noticing that his own daughter had big problems. Her problems could come from growing up with a father who was prone to explosive tantrums, drunkenness, and adultery that he was not careful about concealing.
I can't imagine the writers taking it there...to make one of the central characters a child molester. I don't see how it would be necessary for this story, but of course, I don't know the whole story. Just seems that something that sick would alienate the audience. Flawed characters, sure. Drunks, adulterers, and crooked cops, sure. But having a main character rape his own daughters? Nope.
- Isn't it about time for someone to complain there are no gay characters?
- The staged rape scene with dolls and those creepy sexual drawings in her notebook indicate that there was something very, very wrong going on with her, most likely molestation. I think this might be loosely inspired by the infamous Marc Dutroux case.
- Does anyone know if TD is a mini-series or will it be continued into other seasons ?
- It's an anthology which will have a completely different cast and will deal with a new case next year, like AHS. Apparently, Pizzolatto has already developed Season 2 but he says it's up to HBO to decide whether they will pick it up.
- It's an anthology, new cast and story every season. There are guessing games all over the internet about who next season's leads will be. It'll be hard to beat Rust and Marty.
- Hmmmm...... what if Harrelson is the killer? He has blonde hair (Yellow God), he has a violent side, a drinker. He's a local who knows the area and Louisiana.
Mcbongo showed up out of nowhere as his partner to investigate the crimes from deep undercover. Overtures have been made that this goes very high and important people are involved. The prisoner killed himself after a random phone call. Maybe Woody made it after one of the detectives at the prison tipped him off?
Harrelson's response to the kids was over the top. Could it be he is in the loop and that was something out of bounds?
- A list actors are chomping at the bit now to become part of this.
It WILL be picked up, and it WILL have some serious star power - both in acting and writing/directing/producing.
- I'm starting to think that Hart's FIL may be in on... something. His wife's family was introduced into the story and I can't see that being done for no reason. Also, the daughters stayed at the in-laws when Hart and his wife broke up and maybe that's when the horrors started and all their sexual acting out began.
Though, I wonder why the girls would keep silent, enduring creepy-ness and not tell mom and dad.
Not sure how it relates to my observation above, but I recall a strange scene early in the series - Hart's wife and her mother sniping at each other for reasons that were not made clear(?). That was weird and out of left field.
- The quality of this show - it must have cost a fortune. McConaughey and Harrelson's participation will make it OK for A listers to come on board - especially because they've gotten the best reviews in TV history (except for Breaking Bad of course).
This format is really satisfying. Movies have just increasingly become fodder for dumb teenagers, and have to resolve a situation in max. 2 hours. Series (except for BB) just last too long to make any narrative sense.
Jodie Foster should do the next one. As much as I hate a lot of her work, Clarice Starling or a character like that is one I'd like to see her re-visit.
- It was picked up. HBO has renewed for 2 more seasons. It'll be a different director though.
- R208, see R205
- R204, Harrelson's unlikely to be the killer. They showed his naked back last night and it didn't have the spiral tattoo.
- I don't understand what all the fuss is about. The only thing that could interest me is a full frontal MM...
- While I am sure the Datalounge as a whole would appreciate a full-frontal of MM, this series is rivetting and you don't know what you're missing.
- I think Harrelson's bitchy wife is a member of the cult and has been involved in the sexual abuse of the daughter.
- Just watched the pilot and wanted to say that it seems BRILLIANT! Both McConaughey and Harrelson are fantastic. Everything is great. Anything worth a damn these days is on TV, not cinema.
- Why did Harrelson's daughter draw those sexual pictures, when she was just a child? It suggest sexual abuse.
- When Woody tells the 2012 detectives the answer was with "this woman, these children" - I think he means his own. Her parents must be in the cult. I would be surprised if Michelle Monaghan (who has had a fairly signficant career till now) would have accepted a role to just play Woody's hard-done by wife. Seems a little low-profile for her. It seemed for a while like she would hook up with Matthew, but I don't think so anymore.
- The Minister Joel Theriot is Nucky Thompson's brother Eli on Boardwalk Empire. It's a hoot to see these actors in other roles. The dialogue between Rust and Marty in the church tent in episode 3 is a brilliant piece of writing. I hope Rust doesn't turn out to be a bad guy because I sure like the way he thinks.
- No, that's a big reach, R216. This woman = Dory. These children = the kids found in LeDoux's house.
Why was MM fondling those dream catcher things at the end of this episode? He didn't seem scared to be in that creepy school at all.
- No...I think Woody was talking about his wife and kids. He was never really with them, he was ALWAYS cheating. He only pretended to be a family man.
Pretty much like the real Woody.
- Is Woody married? You never hear anything about him and his private life.
- Yes he is married and his daughters are probably just about grown. I think his marriage is probably live and let live.
- Are he and McBongo still big stoners?
- This show is scarier than the Walking Dead. The last scene in the abandoned school. Shit. I binge watched all the episodes again today and I am even more impressed with the show. Everything Rust says makes sense to me:) McConaughey has made be a believer. He's a damn fine actor.
- I think this show is MM's ace in the hole for the Oscars. Any Academy members who see this are going to be blown away.
- [quote] I hope Rust doesn't turn out to be a bad guy because I sure like the way he thinks.
[quote] Everything Rust says makes sense to me
You are easily impressed, little twink.
- Not even close, r225. But thanks for the compliment.
- The dog and I are on the edge of our seats watching TD. Wow! Just wow! This is some suspenseful storytelling.
And yes, that last scene in the abandoned school blew my mind--what was Rust (MM) doing? Dancing with the totem? Examining it? Honoring it?
Flawless acting, tight writing, pitch-perfect directing, and beautiful, otherworldly visual and musical effects. I love this show and cannot imagine what the denoument will be; well, I do have a wild theory...
- "It's time, isn't it?" Reggie says while in handcuffs. "The black stars rise. I know what happens next. I saw you in a dream. You're in Carcosa now with me. He sees you. You'll do this again. Time is a flat circle."
Why did Reggie say this to Rust right before Marty killed him? That was some strange dialogue. And did anyone notice the tattoo on his right chest area? It was a face that looked like Rust with his hands in prayer.
I love this show and now it's going into a horror story supernatural route.
- R228, check out this writeup of the episode:
- Was the ass cancer reference Marty made tonight a reference to Farrah?
- "Black stars," "Carcosa," and "The Yellow King" (and the mysterious spiral sign we keep seeing everywhere--even the birds flew in the pattern of it in episode 2) are all references to the turn-of-the-century horror fiction of Robert W. Chambers.
- Nah, I don't think it'll go supernatural. That would be a cop-out.
- R226 Having the intellectual capacity of a twink probably isn't something to brag about.
Unless you're a pre-teen.
- But it's already gone "meta"...
When he's talking about them all being characters trapped in a story on a spinning disc doomed to repeat the same lives and experiences over and over again, while looking directly at the audience, he's invoking them and the way they'll watch this story over and over on a DVD, he being just a character doomed to live through this all again and again as the audience, who must be appeased, presses play.
- Who's Farrah? Damn I gotta watch again the whole series - it's got so much stuff in it and now with Rust and Marty being outed as unreliable narrators...
- [quote]Who's Farrah?
She's the doll with the golden head of hair!
- I said it before above, but I have to say it again...
The entire sequence where their future selves were narrating the scene as we were seeing what REALLY happened, was just masterfully done.
From beginning to end... everything about it was just superb.
- Just a coincidence or trying to hint at something?
- What do we know about whoever wrote and directed this series ?
They are truly masterful. This surely isn't their first dog and pony show. What else have they done because I'd like to seek it out?
- R238... nothing in this show is a coincidence.
EVERYTHING is done on purpose. Every camera angle, every framing of every image in the lens.
They keep talking about the yellow king... well, look at this yellow crown poised right over Rust's head:
- R233, I almost feel sorry for you that you didn't get the sarcasm dripping from R226 's post.
- I think the creators are the same as The Killing...
- R241 Sarcasm was "dripping" from your post? Flyover, please. You flatter yourself.
Keep deleting those cookies, hon.
- What about the ribboned "crown" that the older daughter snatches away from her little sister to tease her and the wind takes it and it lands in the tree. The silver cutout forms a spiral just like the one on the first vitctim's back. Where did the younger girl get the crown? At school? Is the younger girl the real victim of abuse? And when Rust is at Marty's house the younger daughter watches him with a side eye. Why? And why did Rust go back to the abandoned school? It is strange that he has a cross in his apartment. I know he explained to Marty that he uses it as a meditation device but he has no use for religion. When Marty and Rust are in the first church they visit after finding out that Dora Lang had joined one prior to going missing the camera is focused on the large cross above the altar Rust takes a couple of furtive looks at it and then puts his head down. Like it reminds him of something shameful. Is it possible that his own mother was in a religious cult and he was a victim of child abuse, too? Finding so many twig soul catchers, for want of a better term, at the abandoned school implies that the children made them as part of a perverted arts and craft prelude to the ritual abuse. This is very creepy stuff.
- [quote]This show is scarier than the Walking Dead.
Yes, yes, a million times yes. TWD is basically just a gross-out first person shooter video game with a budget. True Detective is a narrative and thematic banquet.
- R239 the writer is Nic Pizzolato. He was a college professor and had only written one novel before True Detective.
- Wow, you need help R243.
- Did anybody read Sycamore Row Grisham's sequel to A Time to Kill. Usually don't like Grisham but it was about his best since A Time to Kill. Keep wondering if they are pressuring MM into doing it.
- Holy projection, R247.
- Michele Monaghan has given out an interview, maybe reacting to the criticism her role's pretty much nothing, saying Maggie gets underestimated by both Rust and Marty, she's a very strong character and viewers will be surprised by what happens.
Which means either she's the murderer (or in on it) or she and Rust finally fuck or something...
- [quote]Did anybody read Sycamore Row Grisham's sequel to A Time to Kill.
Here's where some punctuation might come in handy. I've never heard of Sycamore Row Grisham. And here's the "?" you dropped.
- If you like this, you will also like "Wayward Pines".
- And "Carnivale", also on HBO.
- Ron Howard, David Lynch, Mary Harron, Todd Haynes and Quentin Tarantino have all expressed interest to direct upcoming seasons.(only two have been ordered)
This will be a smack down, since so much talent wants to be involved.
I never have any good gossip, so I'm happy I finally have something to share!
- Both MM and WH like showing off their feets - any feets scenes yet?
- Good on ya, r254. And good gossip it is. I will have to google Mary Harron since I am not familiar with her work, but of the remaining auteurs, I think Haynes would be the really interesting choice. Ron Howard doesn't have what it takes to go as dark as this show aims for and Tarantino's first instinct would be to make it more of a cartoon. David Lynch would be redundant since Pizzolatto and Fukunaga are doing a brilliant job of out Lynching him.
- Actually, much more important to a show's success is the writing. Will the guy who wrote these eight episodes carry on next season? If so, bring on Lynch!
- I loved Rush. It's the best movie Ron Howard's ever made, but it didn't connect with an audience. It was certainly the darkest film he's made. Maybe he's dying to go to the dark side and knows it would destroy his box office cred after Rush. He might be a really interesting choice.
- I agree with R224. True Detective nailed Matthew's Oscar. He's going to win and this series helped. I think Woody is excellent too.
- [quote] Actually, much more important to a show's success is the writing. Will the guy who wrote these eight episodes carry on next season? If so, bring on Lynch!
Pizzolatto is already writing or has finished writing the next season.
Watching this, you have to wonder why MM wasted so many years of his career doing forgettable crap.
- [quote]Watching this, you have to wonder why MM wasted so many years of his career doing forgettable crap.
I think he had to grow and mature as an actor. Remember when all he was known for was his dimples and his abs? He was only a pretty boy, so I think until he perfected his acting, forgettable crap was all he was offered.
- Sorry about the shitty grammar! Oh, dear!
- As an actor you need to make some money for his manger and agency.
- Gross. Keep Tarantino far, far away from this excellent program.
- Tarantino is a genius. I'm so glad Tarantino found success in Hollywood.
- One of my friends used to teach in the same college English department as Nic Pizzolato did. She said he's very bright but that he had no business being a teacher, and was wise to leave the profession.
Pizzolato appeared in the fourth episode as the bartender at the strip bar. His "Kiss Me I'm an Asshole" t-shirt is an inside joke, since everyone (including the man himself, apparently) agrees he's a total asshole.
- R261 around here he's known for his glorious, gorgeous ass too!
- [quote]Watching this, you have to wonder why MM wasted so many years of his career doing forgettable crap.
Fuck you! Did you see my amazing, heartfelt arc in GLEE?
- It's my thought that Marty is the real bad guy and in the end he'll die...maybe his daughter will shoot him the way he shot Tyrone.
- I've got a feeling both Rust and Marty die in the end.
Critics have received already episodes 6 and 7 but not the last one.
- Sooo .. any feets?
- My theories keep changing daily. Pizzolatto himself has said that, as viewers, our perception has been spoiled by the narrative of contemporary television shows and that there won't be any red herrings or anything like that.
The character of Rust Cohle has obviously served as a vehicle for the writer; if you read about Pizzolatto's influences, he skews nihilist. That monologue from the last episode about how the time can be perceived once we step outside the confines of our physical world makes me thing that the whole plot is simply rumination on that issue, where we, as viewers, not being a part of the protagonist's universe, are placed in that very position.
All this makes me think that there may be no evil cult and a big conspiracy theory driving the events, but the idea that the evil is permanent and different people commit evil acts which, in the end, may seem connected but defy true understanding or explanation. "Lost" attempted something similarly metaphysical, so I hope TD doesn't lose its plot if this is indeed the way the things are going to play out.
- Only that scene of them laying in the hammock together sucking on each others' toes and moaning suggestively. Did you miss that one?
- Thank you for the closed caption suggestion. It made all the difference for me watching episode #5.
HBO does a good job with it, too. I didn't see any typos.
I love Matthew. His voice is like butterscotch velvet when he speaks in his natural accent. But I can barely understand him on this show, unfortunately.
- Lol, R273. Can you imagine Woody's yellow nailed hammer toes? Probably bites his toe nails.
- R274, is English not your mother tongue or something?
- My partner's a Brit and he has a hard time understanding the dialogue too.
- I have a little trouble understanding him but go to Southern Alabama and Northern Florida...the accent is even worse.
- You need closed caption because a lot of the dialogue is not something the average American would say. A lot of what Rust talks about is all esoteric, philosophical and nihilistic ramblings.
- I think next episode Marty will find out Russ and Maggie are fucking around.
- In the preview for this Sunday's episode the young girl who is talking to Rust, and who has clearly gone through some kind of trauma, says to him "It was the man with all the scars.YOU made me watch". Did I hear that wrong? Is Rust schizophrenic?
- I'm really surprised people are saying they have trouble understanding the dialog without captions. That never would have crossed my mind. I can't think of even a moment when I thought what they were saying was so unclear that I wished I had sub-titles.
- Yeah, right... like anyone doesn't know what m-brane theory is. Sheesh.
Thanks for that visual, R275. Yuck.
Lovely thing to think about right before bed.
Although, I admit your post made me laugh too.
- To go with the hammer toes -
I thought she said "who" not "you".
- I rewatched Sunday's episode last night.
What was Russ doing towards the end on the police computer ? He was looking at some folders and when they showed the computer screen it said "Match Error" multiple times.
Rust was looking at a police database of missing children in Louisiana. The screen didn't say "Match Error", it said "Made In Error".
The implication was that several children had been reported missing and somebody was erasing them from police records, covering it up.
Similar to how Marie Fontaneau wasn't actively searched for because the police assumed her father had taken her and her mother didn't care.
Or when they find the two children at Reggie's house Rust tells us that the little girl "hadn't even been reported missing yet".
- R281 and R286 illustrate why captions on this show are a good idea. :)
- R288, shit you're right. Dammit, it's so frustrating with this show because so much is going on at the same time - I can't process it.
- [quote]David Lynch would be redundant since Pizzolatto and Fukunaga are doing a brilliant job of out Lynching him.
Outright wrong. I appreciate this series, but it is not Lynchian. TD1 borrows elements from Lynch, but not many, and it does not reinforce those elements with any surrealism in their presentation.
- I don't find it scary either, four episodes in.
Is it Cohle's "dark" proclamations that make it scary? I get that they are pessamistic, but they are not incorrect. Mankind is a meaningless cesspool. Duh. College bong hits lately?
The murder could be from any episode of "Criminal Minds".
I'm more frightened by Marty, his storyline. Being so duplicitous, but still seeking control of his family. Of course he'll wind up involved in/doing something ugly.
Beautifully shot, please hand MM many acting awards, kudos on the tracking shot (which ran through two black spaces, so was it so continuous? But still great if it was three tracking shots).
Still, four eps in, I'm not so sure it's genius.
It IS entertaining though, and I'll probably watch the fifth immediately after I post this.
- The 5th episode turns everything upside down.
- Anagrams are often part of a good mystery and someone on Twitter posted that if you anagram Hastur you get rust and hart. My thoughts: The spiral signifies the Sun. The Yellow Sign. And if you go back to r240's post and open the link you see a yellow neon sign in the shape of a crown above Rust's head. One of them is the killer. The other is destined to stop him but go mad in the process. Another poster on Twitter suggested that Hart shot LeDoux,not in a fit of uncontrolled rage, but to keep him quiet. And before LeDoux is killed he tells Rust that he was in his dream. You are a priest and here with me in Carcosa. And the tatoo on LeDoux's chest of an angelic, androgynous young person praying looks a lot like Rust. As an aside to Rust finding the missing kid files deleted, it was also pointed out on Twitter that Captain Quesada has deer antlers on the wall behind his desk. I don't remember seeing that but I plan to go back and watch all five episodes AGAIN to see what else I've missed.
- I have to disagree, r292. This show gets scarier each time I re-watch the episodes. For one thing, it unsettles me because I keep seeing things I missed the first, second and third time I've watched and I am pretty observant. My job requires it. I think the mumbled dialogue is deliberate and adds to the confusion. We can't be sure of what we are seeing and hearing and what it means. It's right there in front of us but we can't see it. Just like the characters. This is the most mind blowing television show I've ever watched.
- Really? Is it the most mind-blowing television you've ever watched?
It's interesting and it's slick, but it is not mind-blowing to me.
Maybe I'm too old.
- Thank you, r288. That scene confused me, too. As do so many on this show:)
- I'm speaking for myself, r295. So, who do you think is responsible for the murders?
- If it makes you feel any better R296 I don't find it mind-blowing either. It's probably the most interesting and compelling shows on TV right now, though. Maybe I'd feel differently if I read the Yellow King stories...
- I meant r296. I'm r265;)
- R294 is there a screen-shot up anywhere with the tattoo that looks like Rust?
- They never show the police interviewing the kid who was rescued from LaDoux. What does she remember? What can she reveal about what really went down during the raid? She heard activity and shots fired at different times, so she might have info that contradicts their story. She might also have info on other cult members.
- Marty said the girl was catatonic. I wonder if the girl Rust is talking to in the preview is her?
- [quote]Really? Is it the most mind-blowing television you've ever watched?
Curious (and not being snarky) - What do *you* find mind blowing on TV?
- R301 there is a picture of the tattoo on R229's link.
It does look like Rust....
- I don't recall seeing anything at the "Meth Ranch" to link it to the "Antler murders".
Sure there were kids there, but I can't remember seeing any other connection. I do plan to watch all of the episodes again this weekend, since the forecast is rainy.
Rust did ask Ladoux "why the antlers?", so to me that is an indication that he is not (or was not at the time) involved in the murders.
I already miss this show, and there are three more episodes. I don't get excited by TV shows very often, but this show is special.
- The wit at R307 proves why stupid people shouldn't even try watching this show.
- I re-watched Episode 2 and watched the scenes in Major Quesada's office like an owl hunting prey. I didn't see any antlers on the wall or on his desk or on a shelf so I don't know where the Twitter poster got that idea. This show is fucking with people's heads. So much fun!
So was Russ tampering with the computer files or was he discovering that someone else had done the tampering ?
- R234 describes at least one way it can blow your mind...
- Damn if he isn't right, r311.
- LeDoux's tattoo doesn't look anything like Marty. Completely different hair for a start.
I think there's a cover-up of some kind to protect "important men". The murders of the young men and the child sexual abuse are two separate but related issues.
Cole knows there is something still going on, in the 2000s, 2012, which is why he went to check out the young woman who was recently killed, when he was photographed. He believes there's a cover-up going on. He's been investigating this story for the past 10 years. He's the True Detective.
I'm not quite sure what Marty's role in all this is, but I don't think he's a baddie.
- Correction. I meant "the murders of the young women".
MM will be on tonight's Jimmy Kimmel.
- R313 People are saying that the tattoo looks like Rust, not Marty.
- R316, sorry, it's late and I'm tired.
The tattoo doesn't look anything like Rust, completely different hair for a start. Why would he be a praying figure. Ledoux had tattoos of swastikas as well, but I don't think they suggest anything other than he was a criminal low-life.
The pharmacy stick-up guy who later killed himself - he has an idea who the Yellow King is and he knows it isn't Rust.
- I just looked at the original trailer. In it there's a 2 second scene of MM in a wife beater with his head buried in Maggie's chest. So it looks like they do hook up. Though it's hard to make out.
- R310 dammit! This is driving me crazy...
If MM is on Kimmel tonight I hope they do The Handsome Men's Club. Love that skit.
- No one is implying that Rust is the Yellow King based on the tatoo. Ledoux tells Rust that the Yellow King "sees" him. But the tatoo does look like it could be a young Rust and Ledoux seems to think he has some cosmic connection to the King and Carcosa. And to Ledoux himself, r317.
Rust was discovering that somebody else had been tampering with the files and that it had been happening for a while.
In episode 1, when Rust and Marty speak to Sheriff Tate about Marie Fontaineau, Rust is looking through the small amount of paperwork they have for her disappearance. The paper says "Possible report made in error", as well, and not much else.
It was Sheriff Tate, in episode 1, who had the mounted deer head/antlers above his desk.
- Yes, you are right, r321. I noticed the Buck head mounted on the wall behind the Sheriff and wondered if the Twitter poster got him confused with the Major. The Sheriff didn't do much of an investigation into the disappearance of a ten year old girl. And given the Mother's criminal history that would be a major red flag and would be reason enough to issue a missing child alert and an APB for her father. Highly suspicious.
- R321, in the preview Rust, I think in 2002, confronts Sheriff Tate about "dead women and children".
In episode 5, when Rust realises in 2002 that they didn't get the killer(s) back in 1995, he remarks to Marty that it's no wonder the task force were so eager to take the case off their hands. Tate was really pushing for the task force.
Also, the accolades they got for supposedly solving the case in 1995 were partly from the "important men", who were glad that the case was now closed and Rust and Marty were no longer investigating it.
There was tampering with the files for murdered women as well, which is why they weren't able to connect murders after Ledoux's death with the murders they had been investigating.
- I wonder if those are real cigarettes that Matt is smoking on the show.
I know he smokes pot and all, but I can't believe he would chain smoke like that, particularly having to do take after take of those interrogation scenes.
- R320, I don't think the tattoo looks like Rust and I think people are making connections that aren't there.
There are people here who think Rust could also be the yellow king. I don't think he is.
I think the yellow king is some kind of metaphor for or ring leader of a criminal pedophile/murder ring.
i don't think there's any metaphysical stuff going on in this series, beyond a general allegory for the evil of child abuse and murder.
If Rust has any connection, it's that he's the one hunting them down.
- He smokes the cigarettes like he's toking on a joint. I have never seen anyone else smoke cigarettes like that. Not in real life anyway.
- Although I do believe all the Carcosa and yellow king stuff is part of the ritual mythology of the cult Dora Lang and probably Ledoux and others joined.
- I keep wondering if something is going to happen to Marty's two little daughters. I think I remember a preview from a few weeks ago where they were shown being carried, or maybe walking...or maybe I'm confusing it with the scene of Rust and Marty carrying the two little kidnapped kids out of the Ledoux house.
Also, I keep thinking Marty is guilty of something bigger than cheating on his wife, maybe not the Yellow King but knows more than we've seen so far?
What does anybody else think?
- Well, in a recent interview Nic Pizzolatta said that this is straight forward story telling. There are no red herrings or any attempt to deliberately mislead the audience. That everything we need to know to solve the case is right there in the first episode. So that means everything we have seen so far is true. The resolution lies with the characters that we were briefly introduced to but haven't seen since. So using deductive reasoning there is Minister Joel Theriot, the Reverend Tuttle, Sheriff Tate, the groundskeeper, the older, white haired uniformed officer who accompanied Tuttle when he was at the police station and Maggie's parents. And Sheriff Tate owns a piece of the Hillbilly Bunny Ranch.
- R325, here's a better pic of the tattoo and comparison to a long-haired MM.
Tell me it doesn't look like Rust now?
- MM smoked like hell in Mud too. Did he smoke in DBC - can't recall. I think he's probably a smoker but he does smoke like it's a joint. I don't think he can really be smoking - he doesn't exhale enough smoke + there would be impossible continuity issues with length of the cigarette each time they cut away. Maybe he's smoking e-cigs made to look like real cigarettes? The vapour they let off isn't as heavy as smoke.
- OK, it doesn't look like Rust.
- Actors use herbal cigarettes on camera.
- Allright, allright, allright, r332. We get it:)
- Considering it's Woody and MM, that was probably the case off camera as well, r333.
- Thanks for the link, r330. Lots of fun comments on Reddit concerning the tatoo.
- R332. It looks like Matthew McConnaghy, however.
Maybe Ladoux was a Dazed and Confused fan.
"That's what I love about these Carcosa girls, man. I get older, they stay in the same grave."
- Are we even sure that the likely sexual abuse of Audrey is related to the killings in any way?
- Dazed & Confused was on this weekend. I'd forgotten how funny it was. All Wooderson's lines are great. The director Linklater was interviewed recently about Boyhood. He said McConaughey had improvised all his lines in D&C. He was only supposed to have a tiny bit part but whenever something in the movie sucked, they'd wheel Wooderson back out. I'd forgotten Ben Affleck was in it too playing the town bully.
- MM was on Kimmel. Lousy interview as usual for Kimmel. They did discuss TD and Woody Harrelson.
MM looked so damn hot. He seems to have gained all the weight back now.
- What the hell is "Cardosa" ?
- R330, I'm r325. The photo you sent isn't of Rust, it's of Matthew McConaughey a few years ago with very different hair. That's not the same as Rust.
This is an excellent show because its makers have managed brilliantly to portray the deepest, darkest sides of the human soul. The writing is brilliant, the setting, the direction, the visuals and, above all, the acting are astonishing. I don't think they've put all that together to conjure up some silly story about the occult or a "whodunnit" with lots of twists and turns. As Rust says to Sheriff Tate in the next episode, it's about "dead women and children" and the sick depravities and abuse of power in society that mean they can so easily be killed and dispensed of like garbage.
It's all in R329's post. And, frankly, the ease with which the most powerful people in society can get away with this kind of depraved murder and child abuse are more frightening than a supernatural horror story.
Another figure lurking in the background is the Tall Man with the shiny skin around his mouth who the church people told Rust and Marty they had seen Dora Lange talking to.
R339, I think there's a connection but I don't think it's Marty. Audrey seems to have a fetish for group sex, anyway. Marty, in 2012, keeps going on about how it was all right under his nose but he was too busy trying to be a detective he couldn't see it.
- I don't seem to be getting even 50% of what's going on in this series. I guess I'll just have to watch till the end and then re-watch the whole thing to try to figure out everything I've missed.
- After I read the quote about everything we need to know being right there in the first episode, I watched it again, but this time with closed captioning to be sure I caught every conversation.
Reverend Tuttle and his brother the governor are obviously involved in the situation.
And we clearly hear Marty discuss roping off the crime scene and tracking all of the license plates in the surrounding area, so Rust would know about this standard police practice, obviously. I think Marty said it twice, too.
And the poster who mentioned Marty looking down when he said that he hadn't spoken to Rust in 10 years was correct. Does that mean he was lying? Or ashamed of the reasons why?
I'm betting on the former, and I can't wait to see what is in the storage shed.
- Daily Beast has an article up today with a lot of information about The Yellow King book
- I downloaded a free PDF file of The King in Yellow yesterday...just google "free PDF" and the book name and the website will appear.
It's legit in the US, but may not be in other countries.
- People are overanalyzing every little detail of every episode way too much. Also, not convinced that "The King in Yellow" will be the key to solving the crimes other than, maybe, NP paying homage to it by planting little references to it throughout the show.
- The tableau that Rust creates with the Lone Star cans, the five human figures around a circle, is not meant to throw the detectives off their "interrogation" or was just something he did to alleviate boredom. He is handing them a major break in their case if they are smart enough to see it. Smart enough to ask the right questions. Offering them the chance to be True Detectives instead of "company men". He also gave them the solution to the case he has spent the past 10 years re-working "off the grid". Five men who travel in the same circle. Powerful men. Men who share a similar world view and share the same perversions. Men of faith. Men who have the power of life and death over other men. Men in law enforcement. Men in politics or with powerful political connections. Religious leaders. Minister Theriot. Reverend Tuttle. Sheriff Tate. The high ranking State Officer with the white hair. Who is the fifth? Do we know what Maggie's father does/did for a living? I don't think The Yellow KIng is the fifth man. The King is above them all. Someone we have not met yet. Perhaps the Governor? We don't know what happened to the men I named in those interim years. We do know that the Reverend Tuttle died in 2010. Did Rust manage to infiltrate that circle? It doesn't seem likely. Did he spend the next ten years "off the grid" meteing out his own brand of justice instead? We know he's capable and willing to do that. He did it to the crackhead who was shooting up his infant daughter with Meth. He told Hart he "did the right thing" by shooting Ledoux. Perhaps we will never find out who the Yellow King is. The sad truth is there are will always be people who commit these crimes and no shortage of victims. And many of them go free or are never caught. I think Pizzolatta wants the audience fully engaged. To try our hands at being True Detectives. You don't have to be Hercule Poirot to enjoy it takes some critical thinking. This isn't really a show for the casual viewer. And that's the fun.
- I think those are some major spoilers.
It will be hard for the cast of the next season to top Hart and Rust.
But I would like to see McNulty and Bunk try...
- No. It is pure conjecture. Educated guesses. Based on what I have seen so far. I wrote the post. And I don't know anymore than you do, r350. Like I said. Critical thinking is the key. It helps to go back and re-watch the episodes and with close captioning.There are no spoilers out there about this show. At least, I haven't read any. No one who worked on the show is talking out of turn and critics have not seen the last episode. If you want to read some really interesting opinions then go to Television Without Pity. Pull up the True Detective forum. I know some here don't like TWoP because it is stictly monitored but that is a plus when discussing shows like this one. Also, go to darknessbecomesyou.com The HBO site for the show. I think the slide show holds some clues. I hate people who post spoilers, btw.
- I don't like TWOP because it is owned by Bravo.
- Does it mean anything, that the youngest daughter had a black star on her bedroom door?
It bothered me when her mother pushed her aside and said, "this isn't about you."
- We see a lot of Audrey as a teen because she acts out to get her father's attention. And she has some sophisticated sexual fantasies that she has no problem acting on. But does that mean she was molested? What about Maisie? We rarely see her because she is the classic good girl, quiet, dresses appropriately, made cheerleader, but it is obvious that she also suffers from being ignored by her parents and her mother seemed unduly angry with her for telling her that Audrey hit her. That was a strange reaction on Maggie's part. When the girls were young it was Maisie who didn't want any undue attention from Grandpa at the lake house. The ribbon bedecked silver Tiara, or crown, belonged to Maisie. And we never saw which one of the girls created the gang bang, or gang RAPE, tableau. One of the girls drew a silver/grey spiral on a paper plate as an art project. It hangs on the wall in the kitchen. Audrey likes to draw but Maisie likes to color. Either one of them could have been the artist. If there is a chance of one of the girls having been molested, my bet would be on Maisie. Molesters in families often focus on one "special" child. Sick as that is.
- Wasn't there a hand drawn black star on the window at the creepy flooded school, too, r353? In the last scene in episode 5, Rust is examining one of the Devil Nest's that he's found, and the camera pulls back and we see him through a small, dirt streaked window and in the upper left hand corner of the window is a black star drawn in magic marker.
I saw that on the window but didn't know it was a star.
- I do think those little tin figures Rust has been making are going to play into the story.
Oh, and to the person upthread who mentioned Bunk and McNulty for next season, YES! I'm not sure what that would have to do with TRUE DETECTIVE, but I'd love to see more of those guys. And throw in Lester Freamon while you're at it.
- It's faded with time but it certainly looks like the shape of a star, r356. Will have to go back and watch the episode. AGAIN;)
- [quote]What the hell is "Cardosa" ?
"Carcosa" is a mythical city from the horror-fantasy short stories of Ambrose Bierce and then of Robert W. Chambers (from where also the name "the King in yellow" comes from).
btw, a cheaply assembled edition of Chambers' collection of short stories "The King in Yellow" is currently ranked #8 among amazon bestsellers because everyone is so obsessed about this series.
- R357, Lester Freamon, aka Clarke Peters, has already made a 2-minute appearance in True Detective.
R344, I'm already watching the first episodes again so I can understand the ones that are still to come.
- [quote]Lester Freamon, aka Clarke Peters, has already made a 2-minute appearance in True Detective.
Huh?!? How the hell did I miss that? What episode? I love Peters.
- Oh God, the preacher. Yes. Sorry. How did I forget that?
- I saw the first episode at my friend's house and was hooked. I got HBO just to catch up with the rest of the episodes. I have never been a McBongo or Harrelson fan but am really enjoying them in this.
- Will we be disappointed in the end?
The last season of Dexter was so fucked up and made stupid...I don't want this ending to be stupid.
- R364, well, this show has different writers, so..
- In fact, this show has only one writer and one director. It's a cohesive literary work.
- Does anyone else get an "Apocalypse Now" vibe from the show? Cohle is on a mission; he's going up the river looking for Colonel Kurtz (Yellow King). Martin Sheen started out all gung-ho and ended up a shell.
- Lizzy from Walking Dead, is she going to be psycho on this show too? Great casting.
- Maggie and Marty are always so focused on Audrey, and her acting out, that they pay even less attention to Maisie. She's always being told to go to her room. They exclude from the frank talks that they have with Audrey over her strange behavior. Any good parent would also think of the youngest child, be concerned if she saw the drawings, if she understands what they mean, would know that she also needs to be counseled that the drawings are inappropriate and takes something that is "beautiful" and makes it "ugly". Marty doesn't' know which one of the girls created the gang bang/rape tableau. That kind of doll play would be an alarming red flag for any parent, but especially for a cop, who sees situations like that, and worse, on the job. We never see him discuss it with Maggie. Did he even tell her about it or show it to her? And he never asks Audrey about it during the talk concerning the drawings. Maisie is almost invisible in that family. She would be the perfect prey for a sexual predator. If there is sexual abuse going on in that family the victim is most likely Maisie and the way Maggie behaves towards her youngest, she was also a victim.
- Maggie seemed to brush off the drawings by saying that girls learn early, WTF? I think Maggie was abused so I think it's the grandfather.
- The Grandfather and the Governor's brother?
- I keep going back to that primarily African American church that had the dead animals put on the doors. What is it Marty said? "We aren't those kind of detectives." And the creepy father-in-law was so racist as was the biker gang.
- How did you know that the father-in-law was racist...I don't remember that in the conversation.
- Have you seen all the internet sites about TD? There's a site devoted to picking next year's leads. There's a PhD candidate at Harvard who is writing her thesis about TD and publishing critiques every week.
This thing is a phenomenon.
- links for the site of the PhD candidate's critiques please
- R373 I don't remember the exact wording, but it was something along the lines of "People used to know their place, there wasn't all this talk about their rights." He didn't actually mention any group, but it was clearly meant to reference black people and maybe it also meant women.
- Every time I post the link, the post gets rejected.
Try www.firstthings.com. Author's name is Julia Yost, she's from Yale not Harvard. Title of blog is: Confession and Curse in True Detective's Episode Five.
- There are hundreds of posts everyday on the imdb board - some of them interesting.
The actor who played Guy Francis (the PCP addict and murderer who commits suicide after Rust interrogates him in episode 5) has been posting on there. He won't post spoilers (he signed a non-disclosure agreement) but he does give some information about that scene. He said it took half a day and before shooting, he and MM agreed that it would be impossible to fake it in close-up and pull punches. So he told MM to hit him hard and not "like a lil' girl". MM actually beat the shit out of him. He was sore for a long time! He said both MM and WH are really nice guys, down to earth and friendly, talk to everybody cast and crew.
- Re: the antlers-
Another reference/potential clue was in the last episode when Rust says to Marty "You ever done any huntin'?" and Marty responds "Yeah, in fact I got a five-point buck last season." I'm loosely paraphrasing from memory, but that was the basic gist of it. Don't know if it's connected or not, but there it is.
- Jake Gyllenhall and Jon Hamm are frontrunners for next season's leads, as well as Toni Colette.
- In the opening of True Detective’s fifth episode, a man named Dewall gets a read on Rust: “I can see your soul in the edges of your eyes. It’s corrosive, like acid. . . . And I don’t like your face. . . . There’s a shadow on you, son.” Dewall is strangely attuned to the terms and images that have characterized Det. Rustin Cohle, in all his nihilism and shadiness—extending even to a punning gloss on that nickname, a nickname that Dewall cannot know. Dewall is the “cook partner” of meth chef and murder suspect Reginald Ledoux, and Rust is undercover. The cover is blown here, in a sense; Rust is found out, albeit not as a detective. He looks unsettled, and his unsettling sets the agenda for the episode, in which characters seek to get a read on others and not be read themselves.
In the years 1995-2002, Rust was known in Louisiana for his knack for getting a read on suspects, such that the police bureaucracy assigned him the somewhat irregular position of pinch-hitting super-confessor. Marty has noted Rust’s “eye for weakness” and his “nose” for guilt, and Rust has described his own hermeneutics: “You just look at somebody. . . . You just look ’em in the eyes, the whole story’s right there.”
But Rust’s peculiar success in eliciting confessions has depended less on observation, perhaps, than on performance. The cops in 2012 want to know, what was his secret as an interrogator? A dogma. Preach it: “Everybody knows there’s something wrong with them—they just don’t know what it is. Everybody wants confession, everyone wants some cathartic narrative. . . . Everybody’s guilty.”
Rust’s trade secret is the doctrine of Original Sin. That doctrine guides his charismatic eliciting of a cathartic confession of “what it is” that is “wrong with them.” “There’s a weight,” he says to a suspect in Episode 3, “and it’s got its fishhooks in your heart and your soul. . . . There’s grace in this world, and there’s forgiveness for all—but you have to ask for it. . . . You got one way out, and it’s through the grace of God.”
Rust’s template for interrogation is the one he once applied to the old-time revivalist preacher: “Transference of fear and self-loathing to an authoritarian vessel. It’s catharsis.” No less than the bombastic preacher, Rust is performative. It is important that his interrogation subjects not get an accurate read on his attitudes and motivations.
Then one subject flips the script. In a 2002 incident recalled in this episode, Rust extracts a confession of double homicide from a PCP addict named Guy Leonard Francis. Rust is very cocky. He has boasted before that he never needed more than ten minutes to determine whether his subject was guilty or not, and here he is doing his thing and making clear where the power lies. Until Francis seeks a deal, using his own knowledge as power: “I know who you are. I know about that woman y’all found out in the woods. . . . Y’all never caught the man that did that. He’s been out there, killin’. . . . I’ll tell you about the Yellow King.”
Rust flips. Other cops in attendance seek to lower the stakes by assuring Rust that Francis was making a cynical play: “He’s shuckin’ and jivin’. He knows exactly who you are.” But this is not reassuring. Francis has gotten a read on Rust and used it to manipulate him. That should be Rust’s play.
Marty says as much when warning the 2012 cops about their “consultation”: “If you two talked to Rust, you weren’t gettin’ a read on him, he was gettin’ a read on you.” That is the familiar M.O. But note again the power-inversion: Rust is doing to the 2012 cops what Francis had done to him in 2002. (The one asking the questions is not always the one getting the answers.) We cannot know yet how significant this is—whether the “read” Rust wanted was just a glimpse at the discovery file on the Lake Charles murders, or whether he suspect the 2012 cops (“company men”) of involvement in a collusive bureaucracy. At any rate, the cops should not take it lightly.
Marty’s recognition of Rust’s reading skills brings us to this episode’s great set-piece, the raid on Ledoux’s cook house with collaborative voiceover from two lying detectives. One thing we re-learn here is that Marty is a very simple reader and teller, with a genius for suppressing ambiguity. Speaking of the Ledoux raid, he says this like he means it: “You know why the story’s always the same, seventeen years gone? Because it only went down the one way.” Between Marty and Rust, in this instance, Marty appears the more comfortable liar. As in other contexts, Marty here does not recognize ambiguity, only exigency. (Marty: “There is nowhere else I want to be.” Maggie: “I wonder if you even know you’re lying.”) Marty can be unequivocally duplicitous because he is so simple.
Rust, though a better actor, is less at home in the unadorned lie, because he is visibly conscious of complexity. He has this in common with the screenplay. The set-piece in Episode 5 marks an instructive contrast with the famous tracking shot of Episode 4. The Ledoux raid is not rendered by a “single take,” in any sense. Duplicity provides the structure here.
A note on lawns and lawnmowers. Marty twice laments the “detective’s curse,” which is to miss what is in plain sight, and he acknowledges that this curse has applications both professional and personal. His true failure as a husband and father, he says, was not infidelity but “inattention.” Marty was not attending, or tending, to things at home. On some level he knew it all along, which is why he was so disturbed in Episode 3 to find that another man had mowed his lawn.
In this episode, in a florid fantasy sequence, the Hart daughters play on their lawn, allegorically enacting Audrey’s fall—which Marty chose not to see as it was happening. (On the obscene drawings in her elementary-school notebook: “I just don’t know what good lookin’ at it any more is gonna do.”) The lawn becomes marked as the space that is not properly (at)tended to, where things
happen in plain sight and go unseen. It is the site of the detective’s curse.
- There was a pic in National Enquirer of Harrelson out to lunch with Harrison Ford. I don't know but I imagine Harrelson and McC might stay on as exec producers and have some say per future series. Ford could do with a boost to his flagging career.
Variety's claiming his participation in TD will help get McC his Oscar, if that works probably every actor desperate to get an Oscar will sign up.
- [quote]In the opening of True Detective’s fifth episode, a man named Dewall gets a read on Rust: “I can see your soul in the edges of your eyes. It’s corrosive, like acid. . . . And I don’t like your face. . . . There’s a shadow on you, son.”
Perhaps Rust is the Anti-Christ and doesn't even know it. Or he knows it and is tortured by it--that's his "original sin" to bear and why he's so tapped in to the darkness.
- I don't think that's fair to McConaughey, r382. He's been considered a lock for best actor way before the first episode of True Detective aired. If anything, it proves that his performance in The Dallas Buyers Club isn't a fluke or one-off and he really is a hell of an actor. I'm going to stop referring to him as McBongo, too. What I would love to see is him give a heart-felt and honest acceptance speech at the Oscars instead of his usual stoner gobbletygook that makes no sense to anyone but him. Or at least have Pizzolatta write something for him that sounds profound and true rather than silly and embarassing. And for fucks sake, drop the "alright, alright, alright" bullshit already. Take the mask off and let us see that there is an open heart to go along with that big brain. Cause he sure ain't stupid.
- It's gotta hurt when a Meth dealing, child molesting, murdering scumbag tells you he thinks you're a demon plagued monstrosity:)
- I do think TD will help MM in the Oscar vote. It's sort of the anti-NORBIT.
- R377, Julia Yost has been doing her PhD since 2008, so I doubt she's only just found her subject now.
Writing a blog entry is hardly the same thing as writing a PhD thesis.
R370, Maggie was disturbed by the drawings and tried to get Marty and her to discuss them with Audrey. Marty was more interested in watching his game.
The grandfather being involved seems a bit too easy, bit I guess he is the missing link, so far.
R382, McConaughey's on fire in TD, I doubt every other actor could be as good as him.
- I kind of like MM's goofy speeches. He's sort of eccentric beyond of course being an obvious stoner. His eccentricity is probably what makes him such a good actor now. He isn't conventional and doesn't do what's expected of him.
- Interesting post, r378. My inital thought about the scene where Cohle slaps the shit out of the suspect is that it looked so real. And I did wonder if MM was really going for it. Now I know why I thought that. The only flaw in the six minute scene in episode 4 is when Rust punches Ginger in the gut and face before dragging him out of the drug den. The actor clearly was afraid that he might get clocked for real and he pulled back and doubled over a split second before MM landed the punch.
- Say it ain't so, r380. I don't want to see any of them on this show. I hope Pizzolatto already has someone in mind for season 2 of TD. I thought I read somewhere that he was already working on the scripts. The casting of the leads will be the key to it's ongoing success. We already know that Pizzolatta can deliver a killer story.
- [quote]Jake Gyllenhall and Jon Hamm are frontrunners for next season's leads, as well as Toni Colette.
I thought they said A-listers were interested...they're like B-
Hamm is good as Don Draper but I don't see the range beyond that.
- R377, you realize there's a special box for links, right? You're supposed to post links there, not in the body of messages... you know this, right?
- [quote] He said both MM and WH are really nice guys, down to earth and friendly, talk to everybody cast and crew.
I am not surprised to hear this. They both seem genuine and real. I would have been crushed to hear otherwise. :)
- So any feets?
- Well what R382 says is correct, it looks like the buzz is that TD will help MM secure his Oscar by maintaining the momentum of his Dallas Buyer's Club performance. For those reasons (according to someone affiliated with HBO casting) EVERY actor is wanting in on TD's next season and there's a line out the door. Right now the frontrunners are said to be Gyllenhall, Hamm, and Collette for an important non-wife non girlfriend 'main' role, but who knows.
- Re-read the post, r392. He/she tried to post the link but the post kept getting rejected. What difference does it make anyway? I found the website quite easily. I'm more interested in the content than how I got there. I hate the hall monitors here. I really do.
- Jon Hamm and Jake would make me happy.
- R395, that's a weird reason. Why would appearing in a tv show that's only ever had 5 episodes win you an Oscar? The only reason there is any buzz around Matthew McConaughey in TD is because he is absolutely fucking brilliant in it and so it's raising his profile as a serious actor.
These other actors who apparently also want to be in TD because they think it will get them an Oscar have: a) to be fucking brilliant in TD; b) star as lead or supporting actor in a 2014 movie; c) get an Oscar nomination for that role.
- If MM had been crap in it, that would have sunk his chances but he's better in TD than in DBC even. He's really on fire.
For the feets troll - Tropic Thunder was on today. MM shows his feets extensively in that one. His feets are enormous. I'd forgotten he was in that one so I watched it again and he is so funny in that. Everybody talked about Robert Downey and Tom Cruise but MM was the funniest one.
Speaking of campaigning to get Oscars, Leo D really, really wants one. He announced his foundation is awarding a couple of million bucks to something or other - like 5 days ago before votes have to be in. Then he tells a bunch of interviewers he is planning on marrying and settling down with kids and then he announces he is just dying to go on the stage and planning his Broadway debut. Yeah, right.
- I think DiCaprio sounds desperate. I watched a bit of Titanic recently and I don't much difference in his performance in that film and the clips I've seen of him in WOWS. He has no range. Even his performance in The Aviator doesn't hold up on repeated viewings. He just looks older. A lot older. Time has not been kind to that punkin' face. MM is back to looking goood. He can still play leading man roles as well as evolving into an outstanding character actor. There is no expiration date on his career as there will be on Leo's. It's time for Scorsese to find a new muse.
- MM better get the Oscar over Leo.
He's been proving that he has incredible range with his recent roles (TD, DBC, Mud, etc.)
Leo sounds desperate, that he's willing to marry and do the stage? How doing TD next season?
- [quote] Leo sounds desperate, that he's willing to marry and do the stage? How doing TD next season?
Hell, no! I want TD to remain good.
- There's no bigger fan of TD and MM than me. But I thought Leo was fantastic in WOWS. Best performance he ever gave.
- Actually Scorsese should have cast MM as Belfort, he would have given a much more interesting performance than Leo's fat-faced screamathon.
- I agree, r403. Leo was fantastic in WOWS and I'm not normally impressed with his acting. In a weaker year, he would be the frontrunner for Best Actor.
- Leo was fantastic in WOWS, as was Jonah Hill (and I can't stand Hill, otherwise). People who bitch about Leo constantly only make themselves sound like hipster queens with an imaginary axe to grind.
- I really love Jonah.
- I have no problem with anyone who proffers an opinion that is different than mine, r406, but when you find it necessary to insult those who don't agree with you, you lose me. And I start not to care what you think. Some people might think that YOU sound like an immature Leo fanboi. An image I have an easier time conjuring up than a "Hipster Queen" wielding an axe:)
- [quote]you lose me. And I start not to care what you think.
You say that as if your opinion or esteem is valuable to me.
I couldn't sound like a Leo "fanboi", whatever language that is, because I do not rove from Leo thread to Leo thread talking about what a genius he is -- unlike the people here who CONSTANTLY (like I said before) in every Leo thread exaggerate about how awfully talentless they think he is. There is a difference between that and merely acknowledging that he gave a fine performance in a fine film.
- You clearly don't get it, r409. You ARE one of those people. You just bat for the other team. And surely you have been exposed to the term 'fanboi" if you post in other Leo threads. Drop the hoity toity act, Sister. "Hipster Queen"? Indeed.
- Erin Moriarty who plays Audrey only appears in one episode. Could this mean that Audrey is the next victim?
- "Boi" does not spell anything in English. And I don't post in all Leo threads; that is part of my point, which you might be able to comprehend if you'd stop being so defensive.
- It might just mean that we won't be seeing anymore of Hart's home life after the 2002 break, r411. According to the previews for Episode 6, Monaghan's character takes front and center, and Maggie details the events that caused the rift between Marty and Rust.
- Is Marty wearing a Keith Haring t-shirt?
- Pink Floyd, R414
- HBO should get Sharon Gless and Tyne Daly for Season 2.
- Thanks r415.
- I'm thrilled that it's Sunday and we get to see another episode of TD tonight. A Time To Kill is on the Sundance Channel right now and I forgot just how pretty Matthew was in his twenties. He's still hot but he's aged around the eyes. Twenty-six year old McConaughey had some beautiful peepers. This movie was made around the time he started dating Sandra Bullock. She's also in the movie and she's cute as hell. They made a lovely couple. Shitty movie though. Kevin Spacey is also in the movie. I bet he got wood every time he had a scene with MM. Spacey went on to a big career and a couple of AA's. Now the tables are turned. Spacey is great in HOC but his career has been on a downward spiral for a few years now. MM's career is on a rocket ship to Neptune:) Alright.
- Mireille Enos and Joel Kinnaman for Season 2. Because they were brilliant, but completely wasted by the stupidity of The Killing.
- No way Leo has a chance against MM.
MM's only competition is the actor from 12 Years a Slave. I have no idea how to spell his name.
Hell no to Toni Collette ! She is so ugly I can not even look at her on the TV screen.
- Yeah it's terrible to say because she is a very good actress, but I can't stand looking at Toni Colette either.
- I loved the scene where Rust wants to find the bunny ranch in the swamp and he goes back to ask those mechanic guys w/o Hart. He strides in and picks up that red tool chest and cracks one guy in the head with it... like a boss! BAMF
- It's Sunday.... YES!!! Can't wait.
There's a long article about MM in the NYPost today. It calls him one of the greatest living actors. One of his old directors talks about how Rust is so radically different from MM in real life and doesn't even look like him.
TD also debuted in the UK on Sky Atlantic. The reviews are all raves.
- Anyone know of a live streaming site for HBO? I used to have one back when I watched True Blood but the link no longer works. Does that JustinTV (?) still have streams?
- [quote]There's a long article about MM in the NYPost today. It calls him one of the greatest living actors.
Why do I get the feeling someone killed off PSH just so they could write that line more truthfully?
- With all this talk of the Yellow King I'm wondering whether either McBongo or Woody have yellow skin.
- R426 PSH offed himself. Looks like he couldn't live with the thought of losing his Greatest Living Actor title to a dude with MM's luscious body!
- There seems to be some major professional jealousy rearing it's ugly head over Pizzolatto's phenomenal, seemingly overnight, success. On Grantland.com, some Queen practically dissects his scripts line by line, insinuating that he has borrowed liberally from other writers, and comes to the conclusion that he is not all that. I think that's pretty funny. All the guy did was retain complete creative control over his vision and voice by writing all the scripts himself and having the smarts to partner with a brilliant young director like Fukunaga. The show was conceived, written and directed like a feature film. And they cast movie stars who can act. And they brought on a cinematographer who shot it like a feature film. On film. And they were smart enough to get in bed with HBO. A company that gives creative people the license to be creative. Imagine that. I'm hoping that the conclusion of TD is as satisfying as I think it will be. Not just as a fan of the show and everybody involved but because I want to watch this asshole eat his own excrement. Right out of a tin can.
- Without me, there is no you
- Grantland has a problem. They gave TD its only negative review, now they look stupid. But they know it: they removed the original critic from reviewing the episodes and have put another critic in his place.
- Just some random thoughts before the new episode. I am re-watching episode 5 and there is a tatoo of an eagle on Ledoux's lower right abdomen. There is a plaque or stencil of a similar looking eagle located on a wall, close to the ceiling, in the police station where C&H work out of. Coincidence? Also, the Rev. Tuttle wears a big ass ring on his right fourth finger. Hart wears a similar sized ring on his right hand. Coincidence? The number five is important to this story. Several pentagram tats on Ledoux. Five male dolls in the gang bang/rape tableau. Five hooded horsemen posed behind a very young, perhaps pre-teen Dora Lang, in that creepy photo that her Mother keeps on a mantle in her home. Cohle creates those five tin figures out of beer cans and they each have a five pointed gold star for a face. Could that also represent a police badge? Five different people call into the police that they have seen someone matching Cohle's description and his truck lurking about the crime scene in Lake Charles five times within a month. Hmmm. Dora Lang's father died in a car crash. Could it be that hermother isn't sick because of years of exposure to dry cleaning chemicals but because she's a Meth head? Maybe the uncle of the missing Lafontant girl was too. Which explains why he's so fucked up. And the creepy paintings of the ghostlike figures on the wall at the abandoned school are "marked" in red at the ear, eyes and throat. Hear no evil. See no evil. Speak no evil. It was a constant warning to the kids to keep quiet. This story is rich in detail and none of it is meant to make fools of us. It just means that the more you watch, the more you see, and so you have to keep going back again and again to see what else you might have missed. We are all in Carcosa!
- I still don't have a clue, except that Marty's wife is a bitch.
- Great episode.
Loved the last scene with Rust and Marty. I think they're getting together to finally solve this thing.....it would be stupid if they put a twist in and Marty was involved like some people think.
But what would they do with the evidence if the cover up goes too high? Give it to the newspaper?
- We still don't know if Maggie is more involved, but she is one manipulative bitch. Loved her bland interview with the 2012 detectives after she raped Rust. I figured Michelle Monaghan is too high profile to just take a job as Marty's wife. I think trapping Rust to separate him from Marty has to be one step in a plot to sink the investigation.
- I'm sort of disappointed they decided to have Marty's wife sleep with Rust. I understand her motivation but it still felt cheap. Can't believe there are only two episodes left-- wonder how they're going to wrap it up so quickly!
- And on an important side note, we got to see the celebrated McConaughey ass while he was grinding into Michelle. If only the lighting had been better....
- I don't think Maggie seduced Rust to throw him off the case. It was strictly to get back at her sleazy husband.
- I agree R438
- Maggie knew Rust was weak for her and it was the best way to piss asshole (Marty) off.
- Did Rust fuck Marty's wife in the ass like Marty's GF told him that is what she wanted him to do to her?
If you had told me that "Woody" from "Cheers" was going to turn out to be one of the great actors of his time, I never would have believed you. I expected him to fade away after "Cheers" went off the air. He was great in that Sarah Palin HBO movie too.
- He's been great in many roles.
- Woody's fantastic and much too good to be stuck in the Hunger Games playing handmaiden to JLaw. Hopefully, his incredible work in TD will get him the offers he deserves. He's a hell of an actor and has been a little left in the shade because McConaughey is so unbelievably good in this.
My impression was Rust was fucking Maggie in the ass. Though anybody could figure out the two MMs would wind up fucking each other at some point, I liked that it came off in a totally unexpected, cynical way.
McC was mind-blowing in this episode. You can see him starting to fall apart at the seams and how he ended up the way he did in 2012. I loved the way he held himself back from beating the shit out of Maggie, just screaming at her to get the fuck out.
- I'm wondering if Cohle really had feelings for Maggie, then felt betrayed by her when he realized the reason for her visit. He held out, then melted...but then why do her from behind?
- OMG, all you queens who think he was fucking her in the ass...
- R445 or know-it-all-frau if he had been fucking her in the vagina, he would have had to hitch her up the kitchen counter more wouldn't he? I say it was the ass.
The way Rust kissed her I think he was in love with her but he couldn't cope with what had happened. He has way too much integrity to get any fun out of life.
I still think he and Ginger had it goin' on.
- I'm in a hotel so I couldn't watch with the CC on.
What did Maggie say to Rust that caused him to go off on her after they fucked ?
I think he fucked her in the vagina.
- No way he fucked her in the ass. Too rough and too fast... she'd have been screaming bloody murder as she ricocheted off the walls.
- Did you guys see the previews for next week.
Rust said something to Marty about having something he needed to show him. Marty was shown looking at something (pics?) and he started screaming.
Could that be the intel that his kids were raped?
- Shit. I didn't see the previews. Fucking Time-Warner cut off the DVR before then.
After she has sex with Rust (I still say anal), she tells him she's going to tell Marty because Marty won't be able to stand the idea she fucked Rust and will divorce her and she'll be rid of him for good.
I still think she's got another agenda. If she just wanted to get even with Marty she would have fucked the guy in the bar. That would be enough for him to go berserk. That she went to Rust, found him drunk and figured out she could force him to fuck her, makes me think the whole point was to break up the Rust-Marty team so that the murders can't be solved.
Her big-eyed lies to the 2012 detective - she looked like she was either on drugs or a brainwashed cult member.
- Maggie is damaged goods. What did her mother say to her "you destroy what you can't control'. I really believe she was molested as a child.
- [quote] I still think she's got another agenda. If she just wanted to get even with Marty she would have fucked the guy in the bar. That would be enough for him to go berserk. That she went to Rust, found him drunk and figured out she could force him to fuck her, makes me think the whole point was to break up the Rust-Marty team so that the murders can't be solved.
You might be onto something. I discounted my old theory that her father is connected to the crime, but who knows?
- What shitty sex. It was vaginal, foreplayless sex. If it'd been anal he'd have made a show of spitting in his hand first. I hope there's a crazy twist bc I kind of saw this whole episode coming. Still one of the best shows ever tho.
- Trust me...it would not have been anal. Straight men like anal but they go pussy first.
- Why didn't Maggie think it was odd for Rust to have antlers on his table?
Why did she say "Less and less" while being interviewed by the detectives?
- People who think that was anal 1) Have never had anal sex, and 2) have no concept of the physiology of a woman.
- He would not have been able to just slide his big ol' dick into her butthole...get over it.
- I hated the way Marty checked his gun after agreeing to buy Rust a beer...it's hard to find any thing nice about Marty.
- R450, she states that she couldn't bring herself to fuck a random guy in the bar. She also knew fucking Rust would cut deeper, would be permanent and something Marty couldn't walk away from.
I thought the sex scene was perfect. The lack of sensuality in it all communicated so much about the characters and their struggle to maintain control.
- Are all cheating husbands as dumb as Marty or is he just especially dumb ?
He cheated constantly, was found out and almost lost everything. When he starts cheating again he's once again not the least bit discret. He has naked pics and phone calls records on his phone.
- She shouldn't 'have hurt Rust just to get even with Marty. This is the second time she wounded him for no reason - the other time when she told him he must have been a lousy husband.
I loved it when Rust told the woman who killed her kids she should kill herself.
- I find it kind of odd that, in spite of being such a nihilist, the only thing hanging on the walls of Rust's house is a crucifix.
- Actually R460, I have to agree. Marty is obviously a flawed character and all but I think even for him, leaving the phone behind for his wife to see was unrealistic and untrue to his character.
- People looking for some McBongo ass got to see it tonight.
- Cohle did Maggie vaginally. There is no way it was anal, you can't just stick that in dry on a woman like that.
- [quote]What did Maggie say to Rust that caused him to go off on her after they fucked ?
She said "he'll have to leave now, he'll be hurt", that let Rust know that she was using him as a way to get back at her husband and get rid of him for good.
- I still think Maggie is in the cult and involved in the molestation of her daughter.
- R467, I'm starting to think that too.
- [quote]Why didn't Maggie think it was odd for Rust to have antlers on his table?
I felt she knew that the things on his table were weird, and that, in the present, she declined to disclose them to protect him.
I think, once all is revealed, the truth will not be so over the top as a lot of the theories posted here. It's about the obsession, not the crime. Don't rely on the revelation to be that mind-blowing.
- Well, we will find out who committed the crimes and why, r469. That's all we were ever promised by the writer and that's good enough for me. I have no reason to believe that the reveal will be any less riveting and satisfying than the terrific story that has brought us to this point. I fear that the image that Hart is reacting to is of one or both of his daughters involved in a scenario that the doll play foreshadowed. Or a photo of a young Maggie involved in a similar situation. That would kill anyone. Or drive someone to a murderous rage. We know how Hart reacts to seeing children abused and worse.
- R470 I wasn't trying to be shitty, I was just saying, the killer could very well be something that isn't very shocking to us at this point. I doubt it will involve someone's wife playing double agent, throwing anal sex at a detective to sabotage the case. I think it will be satisfying and interesting, without being arch.
I have no opinion about the kids being molested, I wonder if it's just a vague menace hanging over the story that isn't specifically tied in to it. We'll see.
- The story has certainly piqued our fevered imaginations. That is part of the fun. I agree that the resolution will not be as imaginative or outlandish as some of the speculation but someone did hypothesize early on that the Green Eared Spaghetti Monster was the lawnmower man and posted a side by side comparison of the kid's drawing with a screen shot of the actor who plays him. The poster also suggested that the "green ears" were noise cancelling ear muffs. That was very clever. In next week's preview, that drawing is front and center on Cohle's murder board and he says that guy is the key. So, I guess some of the audience really would make True Detectives:)
- [quote]He would not have been able to just slide his big ol' dick into her buttonhole
Unless she's a big fan of DL and she arrived pre-lubed. I'm sure women do that all the time, right?
That was an amazing scene. I do think Rust had genuine feelings for her (all those little sideways looks between them), she picked up on it and exploited it.
- Maggie's face during the interview with the 2012 cops was weird. It almost looked like she was hypnotized.
So everybody's a liar on this show and an unreliable narrator.
It's ironic that Woody gets all the fun sex and Matthew just gets raped for vengeance.
When Woody's having sex with the former child whore, the camera pans to a devil figurine. I think the girl is in the cult and sent to seduce Woody (not that hard to do). maybe the whole thing is a set-up by Maggie.
- I was disappointed in the episode.
- I wasn't. It wasn't as mind blowing as episodes 4 and 5, but they needed to segue into the reunion of Rust & Marty and Maggie was the obvious short cut. I love how at the beginning of each episode there is always some foreshadowing with R&M's fight and M telling R he needs to get laid, which ultimately happens courtesy of Maggie.
The New Yorker's critic now hates the show which she says is too macho for her feminist sensibilities. She was disappointed that there was so much female nudity and all she got to see was MM's naked thrusting ass. I do side with feminists there. More MM nudity is highly desirable.
Monaghan has a beautiful ass btw.
- We may indeed learn who did the murders, and why they did it, but that may have nothing to do with justice.
Rust may even be killed at the end, and maybe Marty too, with the perps still out there, since there is power involved. The New Orleans area has at least as much political corruption as any other metropolitan area, maybe even more. Didn't some of the police officials serve time for Katrina-related crimes?
I think Rust did Maggie from behind because he couldn't handle the guilt of looking her straight in the face. Men often fuck prostitutes this way so kissing won't be an option.
The only time this position would be difficult is if there is a big height difference. I have never fucked a short guy, but only the really tall men have had to pick me up to do it standing up like that.
BTW this position is also a good one since the man can use his hands on you (as you guys all know)---it can be difficult to have an orgasm by vaginal sex alone without a little extra stimulation.
Back on topic: Who is this "giant"? Could he be the man on the mower? Is he the green spaghetti monster?
The catatonic girl's raving was such bad acting that it kind of took me out of the show for a minute. The close ups of MM during this scene almost made me laugh because I think he knew that little girl needed to keep her day job.
But otherwise, I cherish every scene of this show.
Marty is so violent! Can someone tell me why he took off jewelry, his belt, etc before each time he started fighting last night? Is that normal for men to do?
Just some information you may need to know.
- Thanks R477 for giving us some female physiological data..
But Rust was kissing the hell out of her. I always laugh at kissing scenes in movies where it's so obvious they aren't really kissing. McConaughey had his tongue so far down Monaghan's throat, I thought she'd choke.
- Why did Marty have all those tampons and pads in the pharmacy bag? I know the ex-prostitute said something about them, but I couldn't understand her (watching on a PC so I can't turn on closed captioning).
Then, later, Marty's boss calls him a 'walking tampon'. What's going on - does Marty have a bloody leaking ass?
- To R458 - I think Marty was checking his gun because he's now wondering if Rust is a serial killer, like those detectives intimated.
A man living with a young wife and two adolescent girls lives in menses central. He was just picking up some things for them.
As for the walking tampon comment it could be a reference to the fact that tomcat Marty is always "plugging" some woman. Or that Rust sees him as someone who is part of keeping the truth from being pursued by the police department, stopping the "flow" so to speak.
- [quote]Why did Marty have all those tampons and pads in the pharmacy bag? I know the ex-prostitute said something about them, but I couldn't understand her (watching on a PC so I can't turn on closed captioning).
He was buying them for his wife and daughters. I didn't get why he wouldn't have put them in his car before going into the bar.
- [quote]Why did she say "Less and less" while being interviewed by the detectives?
They asked something like whether she disagreed with Rust that there is no forgiveness, only forgetfulness. Her reply was that she disagrees "less and less" (that is, that she agrees more and more).
- It was brutal watching Marty beat up the two kids that were found with his daughter. Most would agree that they deserved punishment (if they didn't know she was underage), but Marty just stepped over the line.
- Did T-Mobile already have retail stores like that up and running in 2002? Wasn't that was the year Deutsche Telekom bought Voicestream and created T-Mobile USA? Seemed a little anachronistic, though unimportant overall.
- [quote]Can someone tell me why he took off jewelry, his belt, etc before each time he started fighting last night? Is that normal for men to do?
Wearing jewelry in a fight is almost always a bad idea, as it can cut your hands or get bloody and/or damaged. Belts can be grabbed, and expensive buckles damaged or used as a weapon.
- Thanks R486. Smart. I was thinking it might be in the interest of a "fair fight", but there was nothing fair about Marty wailing on those two boys. I guess it makes sense that he wanted to give himself yet another advantage in that situation.
I wanted to watch the episode again, but didn't want to see that fight....so glad they didn't show us the beating of the second boy.
The daughter is a whore. It wasn't their fault. You offer a teenaged boy some ass, he's going to take it, right? I'm sure if Marty had a son his son he might feel differently.
And BTW, the wife is a fucking BITCH to send Marty out for tampons. I don't care how many daughters she has on the rag. Getting your period is never a surprise---that is what Costco is for.
I would never emasculate a man by asking them to buy me tampons. In fact, I don't even want them thinking about all of that---why not just shit in front of them, too?
I think the "tampon head" comment was kind of a play on the Prince Charles comment. When did he make that comment about Camilla and wanting to be her tampon?
They just mean he had pussy on the brain.
- I found the shopping center where they filmed Marty at the Fox and Hound bar and the T-Mobile store, on Clearview in Harahan outside New Orleans. I still think it's unlikely the T-Mobile store was there in 2002.
- [quote]The daughter is a whore. It wasn't their fault. You offer a teenaged boy some ass, he's going to take it, right?
The thing was, they weren't teenagers, but they knew that she was.
- I thought it was weird, THREE BOXES of Tampax?
- [quote] Getting your period is never a surprise---that is what Costco is for.
That cracked me up.
- [quote]I thought it was weird, THREE BOXES of Tampax?
Well, one for each menstruating woman in the house, I suppose.
- I'm thinking Maggie was molested as a child and so were her daughters...by Maggie's Dad but obviously, there is a little more to it.
It's kind of odd that a molested daughter would allow her own children into her molester's house but I know it happens.
- Didn't any of you guys grow up with sisters? My brother and I did. They have periods. They use tampons.
Straight guys live and sleep with women. They know all about their bodies and their periods. It is not an affront to their masculinity to buy tampons.
- [quote]It is not an affront to their masculinity to buy tampons.
Agreed, but it depends on how easily their masculinity can be affronted. Marty has a pretty think skin.
I think that's why it was there in the episode. To emasculate him to the point where he needed that drink. And that girl's pussy.
- Even though Pizzolatta insists that he hasn't placed any red herrings in the scripts, or is deliberately trying to mislead the audience, I have to wonder why we see Maggie serving up spaghetti twice in this show. The first time she serves spaghetti with BROCCOLI for the dinner with Cohle. We know this because Maisie says "I don't like this broccoli." The second time is after she finds the cell phone pic of Beth on Marty's phone. If you were inclined to play with your food, you could create a "green eared spaghetti monster" from pasta and broccoli. The pasta she served Marty was sans broccoli, but then, he isn't a kid. I think Maggie, and sadly her daughters, is the key to the story. Her flat affect, emotionally detached demeanor, and the ease with how she lies about what happened in 2002, suggests that she is as manipulative and emotionally damaged as one of those young hookers. And she worked Cohle's obvious weakness for her like a seasoned whore. Did Maggie grow up to be one of those monsters based on abuse she suffered as a kid?
- My feelings for future episodes and the preview:
What if Marty sees a picture of this secret society in Rust's collection of clues and his FIL is in a photo? Of course, Marty will be immediately outraged and filled with fear that his daughters have been exposed. He could also be feeling remorse for not putting two-and-two together himself/earlier. That would explain his reaction in the preview.
I feel that the girls weren't sexually molested but they saw some things that warped them. I don't think Maggie had any idea, and that Marty never told her...
- R497 I like that theory, BUT I don't necessarily think he needs to see his daughters/FIL in Rust's archives to be set off. Recall how he was so angry at finding the children in Ledoux's possession that he killed him in pure rage? Mary is flawed, but at heart his fatherly instincts and basic respect for human decency pull through. Seeing a video of children being hurt in Rust's archives would be enough to make him scream like that.
- Why did Rust just suddenly(?) get all disgusted with Marty? He's been his partner for years and it seems that he just had enough of what - his adultery, his coasting on cases, his not being serious during interrogations, not having his back on digging further into the secret society?
When he threw the files on Marty's desk and told him to type it up, he was really condescending and rude. It sort of came out of left field, or did I miss something else?
- Didn't Rust know Marty was screwing around again and that's why he was so angry?
R496 that sounds interesting. Maggie did come off a little whore-like. When she gets close to Rust and he asks her what she's doing and then you only see her hand travelling up to his stomach, she was obviously rubbing his dick to see if she could get him aroused as drunk as he was.
- R499 Maybe Rust knew that Marty's girl was the young prostitute from the chicken ranch?
When Marty slipped her some money during the police visit and said "do something else" Rust asked him if that was "a down payment".
Maybe that is what disgusted him about Marty.
Although it did cross my mind that he was trying to get Marty to "break up" with him. Maybe the results of his investigations brought up something to cast doubt about Marty's involvement.
- I wonder if the broken tail light is deliberate. It makes it easier for the people who are "shadowing" Rust to keep him in their sights. He knows he's being watched. He knows how to use that to his advantage. Just the way he and Marty managed to tail DeWall and find the meth lab, they are going to tail the tails, and hope it leads them to the kill zone. I think the preview for next week, and the revelation that those involved wore masks, means the perps may be caught, or at least identified, but will walk for lack of DNA evidence and/or credible eyewitnesses. And that will allow them to "keep on killin'". Sorry, MM:) Also, the "big people" will certainly step in and skew the investigation. The bigger tragedy will be if Hart or Cohle, or both, decide to mete out justice on their own terms and one goes to jail for murder and the other chooses suicide by cop. That would depress the shit out of me.
- If Rust had feelings for Maggie all along, and I think he did, then knowing that Marty was fucking around on her would infuriate him.
- Sorry, r498, but your typo/Freudian slip? calling Marty "Mary" made me laugh out loud. He does have more than a few MARY! moments on this show. That's for sure:)
- It's just a little too convenient and coincidental for the girl from the chicken ranch to meet Marty at his regular watering hole and throw herself at him, then send him incriminating pictures. It was a setup to sabotage his marriage.
- No R500 - Marty ran into the prostie girl in a phone store, which appeared to be a random stop on his part. She then walked into the bar behind him. I think it was a case of "small world" for horny Marty.
- And also the former whore probably has daddy issues and latched right onto Marty.
Note the needy phone call with the offer of butt sex to get Marty to come see her.
I'll be pissed if this is part of the conspiracy, but not as pissed as if Marty wakes up and this is all a dream.
- I'm hoping the bad guys will be the ones who are killed but I still think Marty will be shot in the head, same as Reggie.
- I agree, r503. Marty has everything Rust lost and he doesn't appreciate it. He's willing to risk it all over some "crazy pussy". Rust doesn't respect him as a man. Maggie tried several times to get in between Rust and Marty. And she attempts to use him. First to verify her suspicions that Marty is cheating, then encouraging Rust to stick around after mowing the lawn, knowing Marty will be jealous. And in his own way, Rust has been playing a similar game. Sticking it to Marty for his failures as a husband and father by hanging around Marty's house when he's not home and mowing his lawn! Rust's true feelings for Maggie are revealed in what he says to her after she phones him at home, trying to pump him for information about Marty. She says: "you guys don't give things chances". He says: "that's because we know what we want and we don't mind being alone". He's talking about her. And she knows it. She want's Marty to be the man Rust is. But she doesn't want Rust, the man. I really dislike Maggie for using Rust. To me, there is no justification for it. Even though in the after the show segment with Pizzolatta, he rationalizes why she does it and defends her. Fuck that.
- After last night's episode, I'm convinced that Marty's older daughter's problems are actually a red herring for the apparently mild-mannered younger daughter (daddy's girl--I need to go study). This was the first time the camera has really focused on her face (and she is a teenager now). I think either Marty has been diddling her or she will reveal that he has been doing her older sister. I would bet money on it. We shall see...
- For crissakes! It Maggie hadn't "used" Rust, then Marty wouldn't have developed a deep-seated hatred for him, beaten him up and not spoken to him for ten years. Then Rust wouldn't have quit and disappeared for ten years doing whatever he's been doing, and we wouldn't have their reunion scene. It's partly a plot device.
It's also kinda hypocritical to hate Maggie for being a "whore" and a "bitch" when she only did it because she's so hurt at Marty's repeated cheating on her. Blame him.
R505, who would want to sabotage Marty's marriage? Marty's other option would just have been not to sleep with Beth. Ever considered that?
R507, the "former whore" has uncle issues and a name.
R509 has obviously being cheating on his partner, to feel so venomous towards Rust and Maggie, whereas Marty - the one who caused it all - only has "failings", and failings are human after all.
I don't understand just what you people are getting from this series, if all you take from it is that women are "whores" and "bitches".
- That doesn't mean I have to like it, r511. And what's with the scolding? I'm not a kid. Fuck off.
- I watched it again and finally understood the dialogue. MM is so good in this. He's amazing - his facial expressions, his body language, his voice.
I don't think I've ever seen a sex scene where the woman is the predator, screws and rejects the man like that. It's really shocking. I suppose women loved it.
- R510, I've kind of decided that Marty's family isn't linked with whatever's going on, including his daughters and father-in-law.
I don't think Marty's been interfering with his daughters, either.
- You might not be a kid, r512, but you're certainly an idiot.
- I agree R509.
- "I indict hart for getting her so broken that she violated certan tenets of her own humanism."
Nic Pizzolatto, writer of True Detective, Inside the Episode (ep. 6).
- Really, r515? You think I'm an idiot? I'm also r329. Go back and read that post. I believe you agreed with me. And I have never cheated on a partner or a boyfriend. And I'm not male:) So, I am speaking from a very different perspective than yours. Or am I? I am enjoying the many differing opinions and civilized conversations in this thread. I have no desire to hijack the discussion by engaging in a petty flamewar. Feel free to ignore me altogether. I certainly plan on ignoring you.
- Yes, r518, I do. Even more so now that I learn you're a woman. Apologies for assuming you're male, but with such shitty justifications for men cheating on their wives, repeatedly, yet rage against a woman when she does it, albeit for more complex reasons, it's easy to mistake you for one of DL's resident misogynists.
Big deal, you wrote a "straightforward" post about what might be going on and I agreed with it. If you want to place so much faith in what Nic Pizzolatto says, then why dismiss what he says about Maggie?
And, I believe you got the name of the sheriff wrong.
Fuck that and fuck off, as you might say.
- [quote]What shitty sex. It was vaginal, foreplayless sex.
Exactly, I felt bad for her when she bragged to Marty that it was the best fuck she had in 15 years. WTF? It was rough and fast, no foreplay, no reach around (that I could see) to get her off. Most of all --no tenderness at all. I hope she was just lying to Marty about it being so good to get him madder.
- Something I have not seen mentioned at all in these posts is Maggie's agelessness. She looked younger at the 2012 interrogation than she did 17 years earlier. Marty and Rust age dramatically. But not her. Why?
- Maggie's face was totally smooth in 2012. Her father's rich - maybe she had a facelift?
- But when Marty reacts to whatever is on that screen (previews), it sounds like a mixture of anger and agony.
So I had a feeling it had something to do with his family.
- Where can I get the music for the show? Amazing selection.
- [quote]The bigger tragedy will be if Hart or Cohle, or both, decide to mete out justice on their own terms and one goes to jail for murder and the other chooses suicide by cop. That would depress the shit out of me.
It would depress me too but this cult and the powerful people involved is way too big for just two cops to fight so it sounds inevitable....unless Rust has a powerful ally we don't know about.
Rust is collecting all this evidence and bringing it to whom? To the FBI? To the newspapers? A small newspaper brought down Jerry Sandusky and Penn State but has anyone broken that pedophile ring Sandusky was a part of and rumored to include some powerful people?
I don't think the writer will have a nice cushy Hollywood ending to this story. It may be like the Sandusky scandal, it stops with one guy and can't break the circle. I sense Rust will try to execute justice on his own terms but both men will sacrifice themselves to get it done.
- It's all about the task force leader, the head of those schools. He's the Yellow King.
- Shea Whigham was really good as the disillusioned preacher.
- It's the Lawnmower Man.
- I'm intrigued by Abel Ferrer. He was the one Theriot brought the folder of naked kid pictures to at the Seminary. He was angry at Theriot and tried to get him to back off by accusing Theriot of being the one with "issues". He left the Rev. Tuttle's organization under mysterious circumstances. The Rev. said it had something to do with embezzling funds but we don't know if that is true. Then there was the reference to Ferrer being in an "accident". Rev. alluded to driving while drunk but we don't know that for sure. We don't know if Ferrer is alive or dead. A horrific car crash would suggest that the victim would endure horrific injuries, particularly if the car caught fire. Or perhaps he knocked over a candle while drunk and set his house on fire. "The man with the scars". Theriot knows what Ferrer looks like but he didn't see "the tall man" at the Revival grounds. It is safe to say that the Reverend has "viIllain" written all over him. But is he the Yellow King? One more thought. The line where Ledoux tells Rust that "your a priest, too" has been cut from the On Demand version of episode 5. I don't think the murders and the pedophile ring is involved in Satanism. They are grooming and sacrificing their victims in the name of Christ, not Lucifer. A poster on another site pointed out that the pointed hats that the five horsemen are wearing in the photo with Dora Lang look like capuchons. Hats worn as part of a Mardis Gras costume. As are masks. And Dora Lang was found a few weeks before Lent. The Devil Nets are meant to keep the devil at bay. Why would Satanists want to keep the devil AWAY? This cult is based on some twisted version of Christianity. Not Devil worship.
- A couple of corrections ^. That should be "you're a priest, too" And "I don't think the murderers and the members of the pedophile ring are involved in Satanism". Carry on:)
- R521, Maggie's been aged a little, certainly her hair's been styled "older". She's a female character, her role is to look pretty.
R524, check out the True Detective site at hbo.com, it lists all the music for each episode.
The cult aspects seem to be related to the missing/murdered women, while the little kids are caught up in Tuttle's church schools. The dead woman and the dead kids are connected, of course. But, they're not the same thing.
- I love the music, too, r524. I hope T-Bone Burnett and the producers issue a soundtrack for the show. The original musical score is fantastic, too. T-Bone knows his shit.
- Was Abel Ferrer the task force leader, r526? I can't go back and rewatch the episode again. My obsession with this show is bordering on mental illness. I need to take a break and watch a good comedy. Ghostbusters. That's the ticket. I'm r529, btw. Thanks.
- Not sure of the character names, r533. The guy who was the head of that church/school program.
Having read your post at r529 again, I'm fascinated. But there are only two episodes left - can they cram in a properly fleshed-out bad guy at this point? They have to show a Cohle/Hart showdown, at least ten minutes of denouement, it seems like they'll make the bad guy an afterthought just for time's sake.
- There are a lot to strings to tie up in just two more episodes. I got this sudden vision that the series will end with Rust and Marty sneaking into a dark, broken down warehouse or a church, guns in hand, like they've found the Yellow King. They open a door, bright blinding light spills out, showing both guys faces etched in horror... then some funky music starts. Fade to black.
Then all our heads explode.
- I think Rust is going to find out where these people congregate and blow the building up with dynamite. It would solve everything in a timely manner.
- I think Rust will get truth but not justice, and will self-destruct.
And Marty will be the Horatio, the man left standing to tell the impossible tale, if he ever chooses to tell it.
- That would be the perfect ending r536.
- Why isn't the church worried about that catatonic girl recovering some memory of people and events? You'd think they would have found a way to kill her.
- Watching a repeat of episode 7 on HBO right now. Ferrer was a Deacon and his first name was Austin. Tuttle says that all the Well Spring schools had independent administrators and that tax records and personnel files were "lost" in a basement flood. Riiight. If Ferrer had access to the kind of money that would tempt someone to commit embezzlement, then it seems likely that he held a position of authority in the Tuttle organization. He wasn't small potatoes. He might have been the "fixer". Trusted to root out any threat to their activities and neutralize it. The "moral officer". Yeah. And those independent administrators? Part of the cult? Read a post on Reddit that said there is a structure encased in glass on the top of the original building in Tuttleville that could be a giant devils net. And that this is what Cohle is looking at out the window of Tuttle's office and why he brings up how "interesting" the building is. This show is causing people to lose their minds:) Carcosa.
- In that case, I'm going to stock up on frozen onion rings before the big finale, r535:)
- Why was Marty to wash his clothes and take a shower after doing his girlfriend? Didn't he know it would make Maggie suspicious?
- And he didn't even take the underwear out of the pants, r542. He can't possibly be the killer. He would have been caught before the opening credits finished rolling. Rust did all the true detecting. Marty was the cubefrau.
- OMG! Scroll down to the photos for a mind blowing revelation. How did we miss this?
- I don't want to know, r544. I'm scared as shit to pull up any photos and screencaps at this point because I was totally caught off guard by someone posting a close up of that creepy, skeleton mask on reddit. It was as terrifying as seeing that ghostly Pazuzu face in The Exorcist. Totally scared the shit out of me. I've said it before, and I will say it again, this show is scarier than the Walking Dead. Episode 7 looks to be the creepiest yet.
- Don't worry it's nothing scary. Just something glaringly obvious that we and the detectives have missed. As Hart said, it was right under our noses all along.
- There's a great interview with the director Cary Fukunada on Daily Beast. Anybody know if he's gay?
- Just a few more random thoughts and then I am going to take a break and do something else. Like laundry and watering my water starved plants. Rust asks Rita Kelly if she can remember if there were more than just the two men who hurt her. She says: The Giant. The man with the scars was the worst. He made me watch what he did to Billy". So, is she talking about two different men? The Giant and The Man With the Scars? Also, Ledoux tells Rust he's a priest, too. Charlie tells Rust and Marty that Dora told him she was going to become a nun. Beth is rattling off some new age philosophy that "someone told me". Is she also in training to be a "nun"? I was thinking that the scars were on his body since the people involved most likely wore masks. The drawing of spaghetti monster with the green ears looks like a home-made mask. Chronic self-flaggelation would cause scarring on the body. Is the Yellow King the Pope of some "new religion"? The head of a "Church" run by pedophiles and incorporates Pagan imagery, Catholisism, Santeria, and the original tenets of Christianity wrapped up in some new age gobbeltygook? Are the kids sacrificial hosts? That has nothing to do with Devil worship or Satanism? Also, Dora Lang and Stephanie Kordish are meant to be a very viseral warning for people to keep their mouth's shut. Just like the creepy, ghost "angels" at the school were meant as a warning to the kids to keep quiet. Okay, I'm out.
- Before I get Oh, deared, I realize I misspelled visceral. And it may not have been the word I was looking for:)
- Have you seen all the activity on twitter? Not a tweeter myself, somebody told me about it and I checked it. Thousands of obsessed fans including biggies like Ron Howard, James L. Brooks... Emma Roberts. The last one's a joke. It's amazing. This thing is a phenomenon.
- What Twitter account is that, r550? There are so many. Thanks. Also, for anyone who is interested, look up The Process Church. Manson was once a member. The "new religion" theory that I proposed would look something like this. Finally, and this may come under the heading of POSSIBLE SPOILER, read at your own risk........................................There is an interview with Monaghan on line and the interviewer asks her if we are going to see any more of Maggie and her family. Monaghan asks the interviewer if he means family like her mother and father? He says that he was thinking more in terms of her and her daughters but, sure, lets put them all on the table. She says we will definitely see all her family, and that includes her mother and father, in the last two epidodes. So that should interest anyone who thinks her parents are involved. And that her daughters were, and still are, an important part of this story.
- The greatness of this show is that it inspired all this speculation but I still think that the way it is going to play out will be far more straightforward.
- It's like Twin Peaks without the surreal 80s whackadoodle. Or logs.
Damn it! I knew I shouldn't have clicked on your link.
I hope that reporter is totally WRONG about what's been happening.
- R544 that is the best damn theory I've come across yet as to how the show may conclude. There has been a lot of heat from the feminist stand point so I will laugh my ass off it the theory linked is correct.
- I am not opening up any links because I don't want see any spoilers...
But did anyone get a David Lynch vibe in some scenes like Rust in 1995 and 2002 driving his truck with the weirdly colorful sky in the background and the crazy look in his eyes? The only thing missing are the laughing midgets.
I think Rust is on the verge of insanity but it fuels him to pursue this case, he's the "bad guy who stops the other bad guys."
I don't see Rust as a bad guy at all. Damaged yes but not bad. I think he is still a good guy underneath all the pain and lonliness.
Marty on the other hand is more of a bad guy masquerading as an upstanding do gooder.
- R557, that's how Rust described himself. He told Marty that bad guys (like himself) were needed to stop the other bad guys.
I think Rust is the only person with integrity in that show. Marty is a douchebag, tries to conform to society but has the morals of a dog in heat.
- I'm not sure why the link at r544 is an amazing revelation. We know that the Church-run schools are an important connection. Rust has spent the past ten years trying to work out what the story is behind them.
Since we also now know that Marty wasn't aware of what Rust's been up to in the 2002-2012 period, his comments in the interview about how it was all right under his nose and he couldn't see it must relate to his family life and how he was such a bum he couldn't see that it was falling apart due to his selfishness.
Unless, of course, the scene where he and Rust meet again takes place before Marty's interview with Gilbough and Papania but after Rust's (I think Rust was interviewed first). But that would be making things way too convoluted.
- Because Rust has not yet realized that all these women are connected to Rianne Olivier.
- Reddit thread that explains it all.
- I thought Marty showed integrity when he walked out of that interview.
He still had/has a lot of unresolved feelings toward Rust, and easily could have kept talking to the modern day detectives that were seeing Rust in a terrible light.
But he did the right thing (especially since he was the one who killed Ledoux, unlike what the detectives thought).
We saw Rust kill a man during that shootout in the projects. He has also been unnecessarily condescending and cruel to people in the past (most notably Marty in the last episode).
There seems to be this need amongst many of the viewers of this show to hero-worship Rust, thereby excusing his lesser actions, and say Marty is just a jerk/ass/whatever.
Both men have their good qualities and their bad qualities. It's what makes them compelling.
- It's quite obvious that the victims, Rianne Olivier included, and their circles are connected to each other through having been at the same schools/churches. I think it was apparent from the very first glimpse of the crime scene in episode 1 that the victims aren't chosen at random. We already know that Riane Olivier was Ledoux's ex-girlfriend. That's what made Rust and Marty go after Ledoux in the first place.
That article isn't even specifically about Riane Olivier, whom it doesn't mention by name. Nor is it presenting an "anti-feminist" perspective, as claimed above - on the contrary. What it claims - and this is not a spoiler - is that the female characters are generally ignored by Rust and, especially, Marty. According to the article, this means that they haven't been able to make the connections between the female victims and their friends. But, I think the connection has been apparent all along. Even when they were making inquiries about Dora Lange they learned of the disappearance of the little girl Marie Fontenot and found one of those twig lattice things in her playhouse.
Beth, Marty's new girlfriend, was a prostitute at the same bunny ranch as Dora Lange and was also Dora's friend. That's another connection. Now Beth suddenly turns up again. I think she and Marty meeting again was truly coincidental but I also wonder if her character is going to play some kind of bigger role in this great mystery.
- P.S. If Dora and Rianne had been at the same school and in the same class, Rust and Marty would have discovered that straight away. But, that they're part of the same church/cult/school network has been obvious from day one.
- I just want a real spoiler.
- There are many spoilers/ theories that could be spoilers on Reddit. Thankfully, they are blacked out so you have to open the topic to read them. No gotcha! spoiler bullshit. I avoid them because I have my own ideas. And I am not going to pull up any photos because there is a rumor that some of the crew on TD have posted pictures of the shoot on line and the pics give away the ending. I love talking about the show but it may be time to stop doing that. I really want to be surprised and I think most other fans do too. I appreciate that r544 gave us the option to look or not to look but r561's link is an unmarked spoiler. Not cool, r561. Not cool.
- That guy in the center of the yearbook photo is HOT! Hot! hot!!
- There are no spoilers, there are just some people's guesses, most of which are nonsense.
- have the show runners said there is much to be discerned from these various sources being discerned? because otherwise a bunch of people who might better be playing dungeons and dragons are totally wasting their time.
- There's an in depth interview today at EW.com with the headwriter.
He explains a lot of what has already happened and what it all means but sadly it went right over my head.
I couldn't make head nor tails out of his references and explainations. I'm either really dense or he's a crazy genius.
- Personally, I don't watch this stuff to go back to English Lit class.
I just like a good detective story.
- Grantland has got some fanfic up. The best one imagines a gay interlude for Rust and Marty. It's hysterical.
- Off topic, based on the way McConaughey was grinding on dat ass, the Motherfucker has some big willie moves. I think the wife is a very lucky woman. I was looking at some photos of her today and she looks so much like Penelope Cruz they could be sisters.I wonder if she's the one who got away? I no longer think he's gay. But, he might have done some research:)
- The director got asked about why the sex scene was staged as it was, apparently it was MM who decided...
Daily Beast: Was McConaughey’s sex scene with Michelle Monaghan in Episode 6 of True Detective a tip of the hat to his Killer Joe sex scene with Juno Temple? He takes the woman from behind in almost identical fashion in both.
You know, he does the same thing in Dallas Buyers Club in the bullpen! I think that’s the way McConaughey does it—from behind. That might be his style—doggy-style, like a pit bull. [Laughs]
There was a CNN show about MM tonight which said he got his big break from Joel Schumacher on A Time to Kill. The movie was a big blockbuster and MM was unknown but Schumacher and John Grisham insisted he be cast. MM was a stunner back then. Hard to believe MM didn't end up on Schumacher's casting couch. Spacey was also in A Time to Kill.
- MM's wife is black. She's a Brazilian, fairly light skinned but of African origin. Odd it never gets mentioned. Every reference to Paula Patton and Robin Thicke always underlines they're a mixed race couple.
- [quote] Cigarettes, beer, piss, bad breath and BO. I grew up in that environment and I can't understand why anyone is fascinated by it.
Not fascinated by it, but I'm do fucking tired of tv shows from California. We spent 4 decades watching tv shows set in LA. Even he ones that see supposed to be about "country folk" we're filmed in California.
It's nice to see tv shows with local flavor. I understand that one of the reasons for this is because producers don't want to deal with unionized workers, but if that's what it takes to get the shows out of Los Angeles, I'm glad. We've been seeing Georgia, New Jersey, Louisiana and Maryland in tv dramas and I like the diversity.
- I can't believe that when they were interviewing Marty's wife in the present day, I thought it was Justine Bateman. I was all, "Hey, when did Justine Bateman learn to act?"
- R575, I don't think people realize how many Brazilians are of African origin. More African slaves were taken to Brazil than the Americas. Europeans were heavily courted by the Brazilian government to settle there.
Matthew has a track record of dating black women....I still can't believe he dated Janet Jackson.
- Though it is a flawed movie, I really liked Killer Joe. And I thought his sex scene with Temple Juno was highly erotic. And strangely moving. And funny. I need to go back and re-watch Magic Mike just for his performance as Dallas. And Mud. I'm on an obsessive McConaughey high right now. I think I will lose my mind if Leo wins in an upset this Sunday. I really do:)
- Fuck yeah, r577! I knew there was something about her look in those scenes that I found perplexing. She certainly "aged" in those ten years but it wasn't that. She almost looks like a completely different person. Justine Bateman. Good call.
- Here's a theory I saw on another messageboard. It makes sense:
I think it's like Harvest Home and Wicker Man and The Lottery. There were ancient Celtic traditions of sacrifice to assure the sun would come back in spring and that there would be a good harvest. In the photograph in Dora's mothers home, we see young Dora surrounded by costumed men on horseback. They look like KKK but they are Mardi Gras celebrants. Mardi Gras occurs at the end of winter/beginning of spring, a perfect time for a sacrifice to appease the gods, assure the sun will return, guarantee good crops and good fortune in the coming year. That's what Mardi Gras was all about. It's a Celtic sacrifice ritual cooped by the Catholic Church as it spread throughout Europe. Eventually, instead of human sacrifice, a fatted calf was sacrificed.
So these killers/men are members of a cult who refer to the old Celtic Mardi Gras tradition of human sacrifice. The sacrifice may have a sexual meaning -- the woman is raped and sacrificed to assure the men have another year of strong sexual potency.
It's all about the ancient Mardi Gras. That's why it's set in Louisiana.
- R579 is that you Lena Dunham??
Dunham in Vogue:
"I always thought if you had any real proximity to famous people that your obsession with them would wane - like I thought: 'If I'm able to go to the Golden Globes then I won't want to Google Matthew McConaughey's early relationships for hours before I go to bed'. But it has just gotten worse," she said, admitting that Oscar nominee Jared Leto is among her favourites. "I'll never not feel passionately about him. The things he awakened in me can never be put back to sleep. I was kind of near him at the Golden Globes and I was like: 'I can't breathe'."
- I'm not as clever as Dunham, r582. And it is disconcerting to realize that I might have something in common with her. Shallow as that might be. But, I saw a photograph of MM taken around three years ago and I can't get that image out of my mind. He's walking along a beach at the shoreline, shirtless of course, and he's holding his year old daughter. He's wearing some sort of knitted ? cap and a pair of surfer trunks, and I have to say, at that point in time, he had the most beautifully sculpted body that I have ever seen on a man. Well defined calves, muscular thighs, washboard abs, meaty pecs and beautifully toned arms and chest. Not that over pumped, roided out look. Just well toned and healthy. I was surprised that I would slobber over a picture of Mattherw McConoughey of all people. McBongo, for Christ's sake. I couldn't remember the last time I had seen one of his movies. But, there you have it. I'm obsessing over his acting chops these days but I still remember that photo. And I still slobber. Nothing wrong with a little obsession;)
- ^ ^ I'm so hypnotized I forgot how to spell his name. Matthew McConaughey, of course.
- There is an Acadian flag flying in one scene with Marty Hart. I can't remember what episode. Look up Courir de Mardis Gras on Wiki. Lot's of interesting pictures. Read the section on how the communities of Gheens and Choupic celebrate and their traditions. I believe the area that Marty and Rust work in is Arcadiana in Southwest Louisiana. I could be wrong. This fits in with what r581 might be onto.
- ^ Acadiana. Arcadiana is the place where Ms. PacMan goes to die.
- The spiral tattoo on people's bodies and on walls is an ancient Celtic symbol.
- A lot of people hear "Celtic" and think Ireland. But Celts were all over Europe, including Gaul (France). Mardi Gras is a French tradition. Loiusiana has a French history.
The spiral is referred to by Cohle as a flat circle. He says that time is like a flat circle, and things keep happening repeatedly. Maybe he's referring to the old Celtic ritual occurring again in modern times.
The yellow king might be the sun. Mardi Gras happens around the time of the spring equinox. The vernal equinox was considered the time of the sun's return.
- There is a strange picture of Maisie and Audrey in a small frame in the Hart's bedroom. It's on the nightstand along with Marty's wallet, some loose change and his phone. They are very young, the same age as when we first meet Hart and Maggie, and they are posed in front of these huge fishing nets. Almost like they are the catch of the day. And the way the nets are arranged they resemble that weird devils net structure enclased in glass on the top of the Tuttle building. A link to Marty's FIL? And perhaps the crabber, Rianne's father? I have an idea that the Light of Day school is the only one from which the cult culled it's victims. Tuttle didn't build new schools, the private schools were given money to take the white trash kids. It's possible then that Maisie and Audrey did go to school with the victims. We don't know much about Maggie's father other than he's an expert on "fishing". Could it be that he was the administrator of the Light of Day school? What if some of the kids were bought? The parents were given cash or drugs and if one of them refused and threatened to go to the police, or got greedy and tried to blackmail the cult leaders, they were framed and and met with unfortunate accidents? Like Dora's father and Marie's uncle? And Austin Farrar? Other kids had family IN the cult, like Hart's kids, and some were kidnapped, like the one being chased by the Spaghetti Monster. Just more rambling thoughts.
- More. Theriot's church burns down and the two revival tents are vandalized. Dora Lang conveniently joins Theriot's Ministry right before she is murdered and her corpse is posed in a ritualistic manner to insure that her death gets plenty of news coverage. And of course, the press runs with the Satanic cult/anti-Christian angle. It seems someone is sending a message, but to whom? Dora's friend, the girl with the black rising stars tatooed on her neck, gives Rust and Cohle the yellow flyer and tells them that Dora joined that church not too long ago.Then, during their investigation of the church and it's link to Dora, they find the mural of the Lang crime scene painted on a wall of the church ruins. Was Theriot being set up for Dora's murder because he knew about the kiddie pictures all those years back? Was he blackmailing Tuttle? Or Ferrar? Or did they fear that he would link something from the past with present events and go to the police? Perhaps something Dora told him in confidence. Did Dora join Theriot's ministry because she was trying to escape the cult or was she instructed to do so? To seduce Theriot? To find out what else he knew? And then, having established a credible motive for why Theriot might have wanted Lang dead, scandal and blackmail, they started planting evidence to implicate Theriot. Is Hart being set up by the same people? And is Beth the BAIT?
- Whoops. That should have been WAS Hart being set up? And WAS Beth the bait?
- [quote] I believe the area that Marty and Rust work in is Arcadiana[sic] in Southwest Louisiana.
It's Lafayette, the largest city in Acadiana.
quote]It's all about the ancient Mardi Gras. That's why it's set in Louisiana.
The story is set in Louisiana because that's where Nic Pizzolatto is from.
The celebration is called Carnival, an adaptation of the ancient Roman festivals of Saturnalia and Bacchanalia, and it's celebrated all over the Catholic world. It's not unique to Louisiana.
- Carnival starts on January 6 (twelfth night) ends on Fat Tuesday, Mardi Gras. The next day is Lent.
The tradition of wearing masks and peaked hats and sitting on horseback, like in the photo we see of young Dora, is a Cajun Mardi Gras tradition.
- This is creepy:
On Mardi Gras day in the rural community of Choupic, Louisiana, it is not unusual to see young children scrambling across the fields, swamps, and neighbors' yards in an attempt to escape the bantering wrath of the switch-bearing masked men who are racing after them. Richard Clement, a retired farmer and lifelong resident of the area, remarked on Lundi Gras, March 22, 1993: "If you'd be here at around nine o'clock tomorrow morning, you'd see Mardi Gras'ers all over . . . poor kids running in the swamp."
In January and February the chasers begin deciding who will wear what costumes--masking to hide identity is a very important aspect of the festival. Former runner Glen Clement, a middle-aged son of Richard Clement who now has children of his own, says that the chasers have no set routes nor specific rules of conduct. The intent is to scare the younger boys and girls of the community. The masked runners chase the youth down then have them recite their prayers before giving them their pre-Lenten flogging--a few whelps on the rear end and legs inflicted with tree switches and sometimes the flexible ends of broken fishing poles.
Staying inside does not ensure safety either. Glen Clement claims that parents often tell their children to go inside when they see the marauders coming; the adults explain that they will lock the doors and keep the bandits out. But as the children run to their expected safe haven, they find the doors of their own homes locked to keep them out instead of in. Amber notes, "Last year, I watched my cousins getting whipped from in my poppa's at the bathroom window; and they had this pirate, and he saw me. It was scary. If they come in your house, they can trap you." But the majority of the chasing is carried on outside for everyone to watch. Inevitably, the children are caught.
The frightened captives are then taken to the busiest street in Choupic, Mark Lane. Here, they are lined up and whipped with switches by the unidentifiable, chastising chasers. "They bring you where a lot, a lot of people can see you so that you can be embarrassed," stresses Amber. The adult onlookers, some of whom are the children's own parents, watch in amusement as the children are commanded to say their prayers on their knees. Richard Clement laughs, "You get a kick out of seeing the poor kid who's trembling and scared to death." Yet the children themselves seem to delight in the fright and mild pain inflicted upon them during the mock public flogging.
Choupic's traditional Mardi Gras chase has acculturated aspects of several ancient festivals. Barry Jean Ancelet believes that Mardi Gras traditions relate back to the ancient Celts of Scotland, Ireland, and Brittany: "Many Celtic customs, such as use of the whip as a fertility symbol, filtered from Brittany into French Poitou, and then came with the Acadians to the New World" (
- What do all the symbols mean? The spirals, the stars, the devil catchers, the drawings, the antlers? The yellow stars Cohle puts on top of his beer can men?
- Mardi Gras is believed to have started from a celtic tradition. The kings were elected, by the people, to lead them into battle and protect and ensure saftey during peace. The druids would use sacrifice to the gods in order to ensure prosperity for their people. Animals were often sacrifices. Sometimes human prisoners were the sacrifice, but in times of great trouble, the greatest of all these sacrifices would be the king, himself. Willingly giving up his life to ensure his peoples. Of course,, who wants to be a sacrifice, especially when you have all the glory? So the Kings and the druids came up with a brilliant plan. The Kings Substitute. In the early days, the sacrifice was a willing substitute, it later became a lottery of sorts. .He would be treated like a king for a period of time, and then sacrificed to the gods.
- It's funny how the Reverend Tuttle and the tent revival preachers are obviously not Catholic, but the private school Tuttle owned that Cohle visited held Catholic statues in them and one school had "Queen" in its name. Protestants, especially southern US Protedtants, don't go for statues (idolatry) and don't have "Queen" in the title of their schools or churches because that refers to the Catholuc Cult of Mary, which Baptists, et al, consider idol worship.
Funny they're in Cajun country but there aren't any Catholics around.
I'm just guessing that the writers/producers felt it might be a little too hot to touch on the Catholic Church's role in pedo scandals and substituted some vague, unnamed "old time religion" for the RC church.
- No opinions about tonight's episode yet? Shocking.
- Are they going to kill that sheriff?
- Now I'm afraid of Maggie.
Lawnmower man must be involved.