Once the King of Prussia Mall opened in the early 1960s, it was downhill from there.
Llanview and Pine Valley are still exclusive.
Some are, some aren't. Wynnwood won't feel as exclusive as gladwyn
It sounds like dancing.
Exclusive is an odd word. Exclusive of whom?
Llanview's 717, Aggie.
What the fuck does "exclusive" mean? White?
It's still a very affluent area but yes, it looks like any other suburb. Less chain restaurants but still a lot of sprawl.
Exclusive means no new money.
How do people not know what exclusive means? It means it costs so much to buy a house that lower-income people can't afford to live there.
In most non-NYC cities, social exclusivity is enforced by restricting public transportation into the neighborhood: keeping out the riffraff. The Philadelphia Main Line, on the other hand, owes its very existence to the commuter rail line that defined it in the first place.
[quote] the commuter rail line that defined it in the first place
^which they call the SEPTA (Southeast Pennsylvania...). Unfortunate acronym!
Gladwyn is still the most exclusive. I think Patti LaBelle lives out there.
She's a rabid cunt, btw.
[quote]How do people not know what exclusive means?
I know what exclusive means, but when you apply it to housing and geographic areas, it reeks of historic racism and anti-semitism.
The Main Line is affluent.
r6, On July 29, 2008 Bo Buchanan said that Llanview's Area Code is 267. 267 is an overlay of 215, not contiguous with 717.
Exclusive, along with luxury and gourmet, have lost their original meanings.
717 is Pennsyltucky! The Main Line is 610 and 484. 215 and 267 don't exist much outside of Philly proper.
R19 Yes, and Llanview's area code is 717. I've heard it and seen it over the years.
R18--Are you saying "exclusive" is simply a synonym for "expensive?" To me, exclusive means some people are turned away for the psychic benefit of those let in. When applied to a nightclub it might be simply obnoxious. When applied to neighborhoods, it has a more offensive meaning.
I don't, r17. I live in Philly. I spelled Gladwyne wrong, but what else did I say that was wrong to make you snark out at me?
Exclusivity has absolutely nothing to do with race or ethnicity. Exclusive is only about a certain level or type of wealth. Older money is more exclusive than new money as a rule.
R20? You are aware that "Llanview" is a fictional place, right? This isn't a soap thread, hon, so please LET IT GO.
Nothing in particular, R22 R13. I'm just practicing a little equal-opportunity Friday afternoon cuntescence. I'd be perfectly nice to you if we were to go for a drink. I would even leave my gun at home if we went to Starbucks (easy to do: I've never even touched a gun). But I don't live either in Phila. or the Main Line.
We could meet somewhere in between, r25.
Where are you located? How big is your cock?
[quote]In most non-NYC cities, social exclusivity is enforced by restricting public transportation into the neighborhood
HA! As if NYC isn't a giant enclave for the wealthy.
I meant "exclusive" by how R9 took it. I didn't factor in race or ethnicity to the word. Just comfortably wealthy.
I'm a grower, R25, and it's accurately, literally 6" hard. Which sounds small, but it's bigger than those attached to most guys I've been with, and sometimes they say 8" or 9.
And I'm on the other side of PA.
[quote]Exclusivity has absolutely nothing to do with race or ethnicity
Says you. Racists are known to use code language. "Exclusive" isn't even much of a code; it's clear that someone is being excluded if an area is described as "exclusive". It's a poor choice of words in 2013. Say "affluent" or "pricy" or just "wealthy" or "expensive". You'll get your meaning across without raising any red flags.
I'm sorry, but when you refer to a rich, WASPy part of town as "exclusive", it brings up connotations that are best avoided. It's not that long ago that these placed truly WERE exclusive, of Jews and non-whites.
But now you have lots of handsome Jewboys coming from the Main Line. I have a straight friend -- really: he likes girls -- from Lower Merion, and I knew the cutest boy in college from Bala Cynwyd.
Elkins Park and Abingdon have nothing on the Main Line anymore.
Actually, this has been true for some time.
[quote]HA! As if NYC isn't a giant enclave for the wealthy.
That's not what I meant. I meant that in NYC, the wealthy don't keep others out by restricting public transit.
[quote]Older money is more exclusive than new money as a rule.
Because older money is WASP money, silly.
I would imagine someone like "Viki Buchanan" would live on the mainline, but on the other hand aren't "Llanview" and "Pine Valley" both sort of rural towns that happen to have a small city center with a fancy neighborhood?
"As the World Turns'" fictional town of "Oakdale" was always hard to grasp. I got the impression it was in Illinois like "Springfield," the setting of "Guiding Light." I also think it was on on one of the Great Lakes, that's why Lisa's hotel and restaurant was called the Lakeview. But, it seemed to have a huge hospital and skyscrapers ("Lucinda's corporate headquarters was located in one), those sorts of things don't seem typical of a large town/small city, which is what soap opera settings are supposed to be.
I live in Philly and rarely go there. I do know several people who live all over the main-line. Merion is very old Orthodox Jewish, gladwyne much more Anglican.
Wayne feels extremely dull and suburban, Narberth is vaguely hippie
So though I prefer living in an urban environment I must admit that the main-line is not of a uniform character
The Oakdale skyline was more crowded than Manhattan.
I've only watched AW, ATWT, and GL among the P&G shows, and I've always been under the impression that they all take place in IL. I saw "11 Underhill Terrace, Bay City, IL" on an invitation that came to the Cory Mansion once. I believe people fly from Oakdale to Chicago, although that may just hold true among the private jet set. Contradictorily, I believe I heard people talking about "the capitol" on GL, but I didn't watch it as regularly as the other two.
I know R36, that seemed strange to me. In latter years they expanded more and had Jack and Carly live in a suburb of "Oakdale" called "Milltown" and the "Snyder Farm" was located in "Luther's Corners." I thought adding those two geographical off shoots was a nice touch.
I really miss those P&G Classic Soaps. I wish a cable network, or MeTV or Antennae TV would air an afternoon line up of repeats of "As The World Turns," "Guiding Light," "Edge of Night," "Another World," and "Search For Tomorrow."
I remember Don calling Betty a Main Line bitch (or snob) on "Mad Men" and I read "Appointment in Samarra" so I've always been interested in the Main Line world.
Exclusively what and restricted to whom?
[quote]I've always been interested in the Main Line world
I can't imagine why. I live in Philly and never got the mystique. They're rich people, its the suburbs, there's a commuter rail line, the end. That's really it.
Fun fact: Grace Kelly did not grow up on the Main Line. She grew up in East Falls, a relatively middle-class neighborhood in NW Philly. Of course she grew up wealthy but she was not Main Line like everyone assumes.
r19 the Main Line was part of Philadelphia's Area Code 215 until January 1994 when 610 was created. T
Alert For Outta Towners: Bala Cynwyd is pronounced Kin-wid.
Guiding Light was in Springfield, Illinois.
Exteriors of the fire house and "Welcome to Springfield" sign are in same name town in New Jersey.
ATWT did scenes in Clinton, New Jersey portrayed as Oakdale, Illinois. All vehicles had Illinois plates.
R44, actually I hear "Bala Kinwood" more often.
Will the soap people just start a fucking thread on "Llanview", please? Apparently you can do that now. This is not and never was a stealth soap thread, so please take your obsession elsewhere.
Was Monticello, the setting of "The Edge of Night" supposed to be in Illinois, and in the same "Universe" as ATWT, GL and AW. Was "Henderson" (the setting of "Search For Tomorrow," I believe), as well?
I am pretty sure January Jones character from "Mad Men," is supposed to be from Philadelphia's Main Line.
It's fun to read about glamorous, sophisticated places like this, are there any books about Philadelphia's Main Lne?
It's so nice to finally see a soap thread about the P&G Classics. I clicked here because I'm interested in Philadelphia's Mail Line, but this is a nice surprise!
Has anything changed since the days of John O'Hara, who was famous in the 1930s-60s for his novels, which depicted the clash of classes, ethnic groups and religions.
There's that famous scene from [italic]Appointment in the 1934 novel Samarra[/italic] that sums of O'Hara's work. On Christmas Eve, a bootlegger shouts out into the night at the houses in an upperclass neighborhood:
"Merry Christmas, you stuck up, bastards! Merry Christmas from Al Grecco!"
Wasn't Nancy Spungen, girlfriend of Sid Vicious, a Main Liner?
She lived in narberth
Is West Chester part of the Main Line? It seems affluent, for sure.
They have signs dedicated to founders slaughtering the natives. I shit you not. Republican shithole.
All those Welsh names...
Born and raised in Bryn Mawr. Now live in Philadelphia.
The Main Line is technically only towns along the railroad line. So that would exclude towns like Gladwyne, Penn Valley, etc, but most of us include those neighboring towns as "Main Line."
When I lived there in the late 60s through mid-80s, it was relatively exclusive. This meant families who had a lineage to original founders, "old money" (living off interest), went to country clubs and their children went to the private schools they went to or that had a reputation that reflected their place in society, including their ethnic background and where their money came from.
Starting in the late 80s, it became a regular suburb with chain stores and "new money" moved in. Lots of new development as old family estates were sold off.
A large majority of "old money" either moved into exclusive retirement homes in the Main Line or out further west -- Chester Co towns like Berwyn, Chester Springs. Even schools that were in the Main Line when I was growing up (Episcopal Academy and Montgomery School) moved out that way.
When I go back, I see higher end chain stores, but not the unique independents I had. And just a ton of new housing stock w/ironic names like "Fox fields" as they replaced fox fields.
BTW, one of the estate majestic homes that is trying to subdivide is the home of the Montgomery Scotts, called "Androssan." Hope Montgomery Scott was the inspiration of the Philadelphia Story.
For what it's worth, the "true" Main Line towns along the rail line can be remembered by "Old Maids Never Wed And Have Babies"
Overbrook, Merion, Narberth, Wynnewood, Ardmore, Haverford, Bryn Mawr
R61 your thoughts on West Chester (where I work)and Chester Springs (where I live) both then and now? I just got here from Boston.
Would Enid Nelson be good enough?
I wonder why ATWT, GL and AW were set in Illinois. Was it because Irna Phillips, the created of the entire soap opera format was from Chicago, Illinois?
I think that when Guiding Light was on the radio, it was actually set in California.
This is an interesting thread.
R62, Chester Springs was very rural growing up -- just big farms (but still people w/money -- true horse people). It's still very horsey and many "old" money Main Liners moved & live there. It's not considered Main Line, but it's considered exclusive.
West Chester is tougher to define since it's large. Overall, it doesn't have much cache -- probably most like the Main Line town of Narberth due to the University. West Chester has some horsey areas, but overall is thought of in connection to the university areas so it doesn't have status when you mention it.
But I do think Cole Hamels lives nearby as he's often spotted having dinner, etc -- he might be in nearby Kennett Square, which, despite new housing, still has some old money cache (although they are losing that).
R64, Agnes Nixon lives in Rosemont.
Blythe Danner was raised in Rosemont.
r53, John O'Hara's Gibbsville was Pottsville, his hometown in Schuylkill County.
The Monticello skyline on "The Edge of Night" was Cincinnati.
[quote]In most non-NYC cities, social exclusivity is enforced by restricting public transportation into the neighborhood
I understand the motivation, but isn't this problematic: How the hell do servants get to work? These days, hardly anyone has (or wants) live-in maids. Can they all afford cars?
Thanks. Watching [italic]Ten North Frederick[/italic] (1958), based on O'Hara's novel. Geraldine Fitzgerald is SCARY.
Always wondered how authentic these Hollywood movies are. I had a supervisor, who as a "Pennsylvania Dutch" child, was there when they filmed the foxhunting scenes in [italic]Marnie[/italic]. Somewhere in rural Lancaster County. All built over by now, I suspect. He didn't speak with the infamous Main Line lockjaw, though. I could understand every word he said.
When Robert Moses designed highways on Long Island, overpasses could not accommodate buses. It was purposeful. He didn't want poor city folk to have easy access to places like Jones Beach. Instead he created pools including Astoria and McCarren, to keep the masses in the city.
Hamels lives in Newtown Square, as does Roy Halladay
Llanview and Pine Valley are Bucks and Montgomery County towns. There are parts of Huntingdon Valley referred to as Pine Valley. There are also roads in the area with names beginning with Ll ...
Not main line really, more like upwardly mobile suburban. What makes Main Line is that those people are born into it, like Phoebe English Tyler. Not even the Kellys were Main Line. I know y'all hate me for mixing fictional places with real ones. I don't care ...
mugshots: Two prep school grads used their connections and business acumen to stake out a monopoly selling drugs to HS students in Philly's affluent Main Line suburbs
Neil Scott, 25, and Timothy Brooks, 18,are graduates of The Haverford School, a $35,000-a-year private institution where both played lacrosse. They tapped their sports and social networks to help further their enterprise, officials said.
“They were using very traditional business principles,” Montgomery County District Attorney Risa Vetri Ferman said. “To take those skills and turn it into this kind of illegal enterprise is very distressing.”
Old maids never marry and have babies. Repeat it, bitches.
The old Main Line is pretty much gone. Now the Main Line and other affluent areas around Philadelphia are filled with rude, classless idiots with money. It's pathetic and I hated every minute I lived there.
I love the old bitches that say they live on the Main Line, in that Gloria Upson drawl. I live in the area, and hear the reference often. Cracks me up.
I thought Gloria Upson's accent was specific to the North Shore of Long Island ("Locust Valley lockjaw").
r69 It's been a running joke for many years, but nonetheless true. The lady of the house will pick up her "day staff" at the bus stop/train station each morning, and return said staff to same in the late afternoon/evening.
I love how this thread is half soap thread. It's kind of funny what an influence daytime soaps have on our world.
And that Timothy Brooks is hot to death.
I agree "exclusive" is an offensive term for a neighborhood or a town--when the Upsons tell Auntie Mame that Patrick and Gloria have to live somewhere "exclusive and restricted," her response is (properly) "Exclusively what and restricted to whom?" (As it turns out, the Upsons are disgusted that a Jewish cellist is moving next door.)
Back in the day, in certain American towns and suburbs you could often not buy property if you were non-white or Jewish.
Even Catholics were kept out, r81.
My dad (a Protestant) said when a priest passed through their Ohio village, the call went out about a wandering "papist."
[quote]The Main Line is 610 and 484. 215 and 267 don't exist much outside of Philly proper.
My guess is that the Philadelphia Main Line is not as affluent as it once was. This is probably also true for Newport, Rhode Island and the north shore of Long Island (eg. Kings Point, Sands Point, Glen Cove, Oyster Bay, etc.) where some of the wealthiest families in the country built grand houses during the late 19th and early 20th century eg. Oheka Castle. Now I think the wealthiest people in the northeastern U.S. have country homes in Greenwich, Connecticut, the Hamptons and Nantucket, Massachusetts. In these places, it's surprising how many houses are worth $10 million or more. Just google "zillow most expensive homes Massachusetts" etc..
Someone here told us that social downgrading happened with Greenwich, CT as well.
The 60s turned everything topsy turvey.
AIDS boys have taken it over.
Now, now R86. Don't be that way.
Gladwyne has a memorial to Father Divine. Doesn't sound very exclusive to me.
R86, hardly, the straights are still the main contingency there
It hasn't been the same since B. Altman & Co closed
Llanview switched area codes (215 or 717) more times than Viki turned into Niki and back.
The Spungens lived in Lower Moreland in a regular-looking, middle-class house, linked below.
Very rich people want privacy and security. The Fleur de Lys mansion in Los Angeles was sold this year for $102 million, making it the most expensive property ever sold in Los Angeles county. It's located at 350 N. Carolwood Drive in the Holmby Hills neighborhood. When you look on Google street view, all you see is a dark brown gate, a wall, tall hedges and trees and nothing of the house. They do their best to discourage nosy tourists.
Apparently Corinth is a very cheap place to live. Since those murders 20 years ago, everybody moved to the City.
R86 = former Archbishop Wood Catholic High School student
Oh no, another soap opera reference from R94.
Thanks to the Feds the Main Line has been forced to provide "Affordable Housing" for people who don't deserve to live here. City housing in Philadelphia is where they should remain living.
Drown them at birth!
Helpful thread. I have a friend who lives in Narberth, who initially came across as poor and always broke. It wasn't until I visited his house & met his neighbors and family that I realized his Main Line status. We are still good friends, although his sense of entitlement is sometimes annoying. But I am sure there are things about me he finds annoying too.
At the beginnning, he said he lived near the old Barnes Foundation, which is in Lower Merion...so I shound not have been surprised.
I'm Barbara Thorndyke and while I don't approve of this thread I tolerate it.