- Why don't we just use the 'Gays In Tennis' thread? The tournament is almost over anyways.
- Oh well... I do like the OP's comments. Pictures of Rafa's ass, please.
- For a long time DL has had separate Slam and gays in tennis threads. I think it's best to reserve discussion of individual slams in their own threads and tennis in general in the gays in tennis threads.
- We should just use this thread until the tournament is officially over. Especially since it has already been created.
- I want Serena to double bagel that bitch Azarenka. I can't stand her and that outfit looks pathetic. Her game is boring too. Also, how or why did Azarenka or her team co-sign on letting them use those colors with that design? It makes her look bloated around the middle.
I'm hopoing for a Gasquet vs. Wawrinka final just for a change. I'm sick of Nadal and Djokovic.
- I don't understand the appeal of watching tennis.
- It's going to be a close match between Stan and Nole.
From someone in the last thread: Novak is "only popular in Serbia and China". Why China?
- r5, I want that bitch Azarenka to double bagel that bitch Swilliams. I just want her to do it with her vocal cords ripped out, maybe. And without Redfoo in the stands (god, is he obnoxious!). Oh, and without that nurse's uniform Nike's making her wear this year (she looks like a frump, and from behind she actually looks like some rubber-stamping public servant frau who's had too many egg rolls and vanilla cokes for lunch). While I'm at it—I'd also like her to get rid of that unbearably supercilious expression she's always got on when she's winning. And I also hope she doesn't come on court wearing that hoodie thing with her iPod blaring in her ears (no, Azarenka, you do not look cool, and never will...).
Actually, I don't really want either of these two unbearable diva bitches to win.
- Go Serena! It would be nice if an American won the US Open.
Serena will win because she's in Vika's head but they both need to fire their Nike designers after this tournament.
- Then you're on the right thread R6!
- Sharpova must have paid Nike to give her two biggest rivals the most hideous outfits worn this year.
I doubt that Serena is in Vika's head - she's beaten Williams twice this year.
- Which male player, active or retired, has the most womanly ass?
- Stan v Nole could be a very good match. Good for Stan, I like him despite his terrible skin.
Nole would be a hot lay, I bet.
Rafa would be boring, but who cares, so long as he just lays there and lets me spread his cheeks? Damm.
- Djokovic/Wawrinka about to start.
- If Wawrinka keeps this up the upset is his. I knew Djoker would be in trouble today.
- Really, R14? Wawrinka is an unlikable toad. He abandoned his wife and kid, and then came back to have them clean and tend to him.
For all the weird reasons that everyone seems to hate Novak, Wawrinka is genuinely unpleasant.
- I like Li Na, but she thoroughly embarrassed herself yesterday..... by smacking everything into the middle of the net or way outside the lines.
Oh, and that purple hair on Venus looks absolutely ridiculous!
- I think Djoker looks like a nerdy lay.
Why is his girlfriend so orange?
- And, Serena's hair looks like a gigantic mop pulled back into a ponytail.
- So if you have Time Warner you aren't seeing this match right now?
- In bed, Rafa would be workmanlike and solicitous. In bed, Novak would be goofy and loud. In bed, Roger would be lazy but sweet.
- Team Azarenka
The sisters are fashion disasters. Serena's hair needs to meet up with a weedwacker.
- Poor Stan. I'm afraid that injury is going to do him in.
- It's strange because the fall didn't look that bad. But I guess it was.
- Djoker is tired.
- Excellent game.
- It's a fun match to watch, but neither guy has a prayer against Nadal.
- It's Gas-gay.
- Wawrinka keeps trying to go behind Djoker and that play just isn't working.
- Wawrinka looks like the love child of Greg Evigan and Ryan Phillippe.
- Wawrinka wants out of Federer's shadow.
- That's quite true, R31.
- R32, I want out of Mirka's shadow, but that's a lot of shadow.
- I weel win, no?
- Actually, Nole has been very discreet celebrating his win.
- Djokovic just caressed Stan's head in a very homoerotic manner.
- Wawrinka had skin in the game.
- That one game lasted longer than most of the ladies matches. No wonder the women players are all so fat.
- "No wonder the women players are all so fat."
And apparently overpaid. See link.
- this match gives me a headache.
- After seeing the Wawrinka-Djokovic semi, and especially the on-court post-match interviews, I finally get what some of you guys have been saying: Djokovic is desperate to be loved by the crowd, almost to the point of resenting it when the crowd gives his opponent a bigger cheer. It's almost pathetic.
- He always hates it when the crowd cheers more for his opponent than for him. He can get so resentful that it often negatively impacts his game. He's desperate to be loved and admired.
- I love it when Gasquet speaks.
- Yep, R43. He's so transparent about it too. "The crowd here is just so amazing." "I love the crowd." and so on. Not quite those words but he had to have said some variation of that about four times in that interview. He also got peeved during the match at the crowd cheering for his opponent.
- I usually find the Brooklyn/Mirka posts tedious as hell, but r34 made me chuckle.
- The crowd was definitely behind Wawrinka and Djokovic couldn't take it.
- I would like to transplant Gasquet's handsome head onto Rafa's hot body.
- Poor Rafa. Seems like his jock or whatever he is wearing under his shorts is all up in his business. He keeps readjusting much to my satisfaction...(and his.)
- R50, if Djokovic couldn't handle that, he's an idiot. Nadal doesn't care at all. You can say what you want about him and his on court antics (taking too long to serve etc), but he rarely ever gets distracted by the crowd. He doesn't care who they root for. Hell.. he's won the French Open how many times now? And the French hate the Spanish. They never root for Nadal in Paris. Still.. it doesn't stop him from concentrating on the important thing, the match, and winning it. I agree that Djokovic often comes across as desperate to be liked. Can't be easy for him living in the shadow of two great and world famous players, Federer and Nadal. Most people have heard of them. Few people have heard of Djokovic. That's just a fact. Djokovic has an image problem. He's not as likable as his opponents. He doesn't seem as humble as Nadal or Federer. They both gained many fans because they behave like true gentlemen. They don't act like obnoxious assholes when they win (like Djokovic and the stupid shirt ripping), and they always praise their opponents when they lose.
I'm sorry.. I've never liked Djokovic. His personality just hasn't clicked with me. I fully admit he's a great tennis player, nobody can take that away from him. He's amazing. But as a person? Meh. There's more interesting people out there.. and heck, there's a reason I'd rather root for Nadal, despite him being less talented and more of a choker than Djokovic.
- R53, there is nothing gracious (in victory or defeat), humble or gentlemanly about Federer. I truly think he is one of the most unpleasant players to have played the game (for as a long as I've watched anyway, so nearly 20 years) but definitely one of the most talented.
I am a Djokovic fan and I agree he shouldn't care that much about the crowd, but I can understand his frustration. Not everyone has the need to be loved, but he really seems to. He can't really win though. Either he's seen as fake humble in defeat or obnoxious in victory, too loud and a "joker" or boring. He should just let his achievements and actions speak for themselves and forget about the crowds. I'm sure that's easier said than done though and obviously have never been in his shoes.
- Novak is beautiful and needs to have a cock up his ass on a daily basis. That would solve all these problems.
- Shut up, Mary Carillo. Shut UP!
- I think that Novak is sensitive about the crowd because they really got on him a few seasons ago about some comment he made about Roddick. I agree. Who cares. Play well and move on.
On the other hand, it seems that all players go out of their way to suck up to the crowd in NY. Sure, they thank the fans at other tournaments, but it's way overboard here.
Totally agree about Federer. He is supremely talented, but he is no sportsman. How he got that reputation is a miracle of modern PR.
- R54, I do think people are too harsh on him. I don't even like him that much, but I do feel sorry for him at times. Like I said.. he's living in the shadow of tennis greats Nadal and Federer, and that can't be easy. I did see a decline in buzz for tennis when Djokovic was at his best in like 2011. I don't think I was imagining that either. The tennis fans just seem to prefer Nadal and Federer over him. Djokovic has an image problem, no matter what he does he can't seem to get people to like him.
That said, he should have been able to handle the Wawrinka match today, instead of getting pissy about it. It's completely normal for the crowd to support the underdog. Nadal, Federer, Djokovic and Murray have dominated for years. Some new blood in tennis is good and it's exciting. Djokovic, as the favorite, should at least understand where they are coming from. Unruly crowds are something all tennis players have to deal with. Like I said.. the Paris crowd hates Nadal, but that didn't stop him from winning like 8 French Open titles. He never once complained about the crowd either, or threw shade like Djokovic did today. He just accepts it and still play his best tennis. I wish Djokovic could do the same. At the end of the day he just needs to stop caring about what other people think about him and go on with his life and career. It really doesn't matter in the end.
- Eh I don't even think Djokovic "threw shade" today at all. If anything he did the opposite.
- Sorry your bias against Joker is showing through r58. Nadal has never been happy about how the crowd has received him in Paris, he just let his Uncle Tony do the complaining. That said, he is better at focusing on the important matters, like WINNING. I'm sure he will likely be the fan favorite in his pending match with Novak on Monday. I also don't think Nadal is as humble as people give him credit for- he expects to win every match he plays and I think he expects to eventually overtake Federer's grand slam total. He has a claim toward GOAT and don't be fooled into thinking he isn't thinking about that with every grand slam he plays. It's why he plays with so much ferocity right now.
- Looks like it's going to be another rafa-nole final.
- RG is the only tournament where Nadal is not a crowd favorite. I think if Nadal were booed or cheered against more often, it might bother him. We've seen him be unhappy with the rude French crowd reception he gets there.
Djokovic is a raging narcissist so of course he's unhappy that he's not often a crowd favorite. He has grinding power game that is not usually exciting and doesn't have natural charisma. It's tough for him to see Federer and (mostly) Nadal adored at every tournament.
Murray is only popular in the UK although all the English-speaking media around the world try to elevate him past that. He doesn't seem to be bothered by lack of crowd support, though he'll often yell "c'mon!" to get the fans into it (which doesn't usually work).
- JFC all of the players expect to win every match otherwise they wouldn't be out there. Rafa doesn't give a damn about the crowd that should be obvious from his intense focus. If you're focused other crowd you're doing something wrong. Stop reaching just because nobody likes Djoker.
- I hope Gasquet was clear-headed enough to get the digits of that hottie ballboy before he left the court. At least spending time with him could be some consolation.
It was great of CBS to broadcast Wawrinka saying ‘FUCK’ when they showed that clip of him cramping up during his post match press conference. The producer must have thought he was saying something in French.
- Wawrinka got the rare on-court interview after a loss (not counting the championship, of course).
Why not Gasquet?
- r65 yeah that's strange... James Blake was interviewed but that's because he's going to retire. What about Stan?
- "I hope Gasquet was clear-headed enough to get the digits of that hottie ballboy before he left the court."
Was that the somewhat Tom Daley looking one?
- You know it, r67!
There are a few other good looking dudes as ballboys this year, but that guy in particular is smokin' hot...even with the little bit of extra weight on his bones.
- I am childishly amused by this players name.
He is South African Lucas Sithole and he is one win away from taking the wheelchair quad tournament.
Tomorrow he competes against an American and the No. 1 seed (David Wagner) for the championship.
- Magnus Norman looked extremely fuckable today.
He is one instance where I wouldn't mind taking Martina Hingis' sloppy seconds.
(Stepanek is an example of where I wouldn't.)
- Wawrinka has a nice ass.
"He is South African Lucas Sithole and he is one win away from taking the wheelchair quad tournament."
If he wins, in a year's time he will be found to have shot his girlfriend while on the toilet aka the sithole.
- Is Barty a lesbo too?
If Dellacqua and Barty were standing in front of me and I was told one was lesbian, Barty is the one that I would guess.
Also, there are almost no people in the upper stands for the ladies doubles final right now. It looks like they are letting all the riff raff filter down into the good seats since there is nobody there.
I'm assuming that they scheduled it for after the men's semis assuming that the Williams sisters would make the final.
- Yeah, yeah, I heard the story of Stan and his wife. Whatevs, I'm not looking to marry him, or to have his children, fraulina.
He's likeable on court, as he proved today.
- I think the audience never gets on Djokovic's side because he's lost the likable personality he had when he was younger. When Nadal won today, he was smiling and jumping for joy. When Djokovic won, he looked like he was posing for a statue to be erected in some Serbian square.
- Yes, I wonder what happened to that Djokovic, R75. I know people got on him for those impersonations, but he used to seem full of fun and a little impishly nerdy. Now he's a PR machine, dull and boring except for the moments when he roars at the end of match (not that he did that today). I think he's a great example of what happens when you care too much about what every last person thinks of you. If he had just continued to be himself, he would be liked a lot more.
- That ball boy has added muscle this year which is very hot. Only idiotic DL queens would think he looked better before.
- I dunno, R75. Maybe a muted celebration was called for after such a tough, tight match. I can remember some ecstatic, OTT celebrations after very close matches in slams that I thought were very tacky.
I thought Djokovic was very respectful to Stan.
- Djokovic and Federer are my favorites. Djoker has plenty of charisma.
- Did it really take you that long to come up with a response, 'Dani V'? Retarded much?
- You don't have to be a fraulina to think that Wawrinka is weird, R74. If Djokovic looks upstanding compared to you, then you need new PR people.
- Douchebag @ R80,
I have a life.
Enjoy your mom's basement.
- You might enjoy your mom's cunt more, 'Dani V'. Not everyone has to love Wawrinka just because you say so.
- You like both, R79. That's interesting. Well Fed is over.
- How is Djokovic going to seduce the crowd in the final?
You probably took offense that I called you 'fraulina'. OK, I apologize.
Of course you're right that just because I like Stan doesn't mean everyone has to. Not even, or especially, the 24,000 people in Ashe Stadium who liked him today.
- That's sweet of you, R86. Maybe R83 will apologize back later.
Dani V. FTW!
- Hradecka got the doubles double whammy!
She and Hlavackova just won the ladies in a fairly exciting match (in front of maybe 1000 fans), and yesterday she and Mirnyi won the mixed championship.
Kind of cool!
- r85 Maybe he can wear another FDNY 9/11 hat out on the court. I have disliked him since that incident. Obvious pandering to the crowd.
- He tries so hard.
- Wawrinka suffered a cramp during his after game press conference..utters "FUCK" twice,
- Rafa also suffered with cramps at the 2011 US Open press conference. Poor Rafa.
- I find Novak likable. A friend of mine who was watching with me today was turned off when they said he hadn't eaten chocolate in years.
- I love this video!
- You know the good thing about the tennis fans on this site ( at least this year) is that we aren't out for blood and ready to kill each other over our favorite players. It can get pretty bloody on other sites. Murray fans have gotten pretty arrogant and Fed fans are bitter and angry. I usually stick to VB.
- Just adding my two cents to the crowd-sucking-up conversation -Serena did her share this tournament, which is unusual for her.
- Apparently some Fed fans screamed "we want Federer" while Wawrinka was playing a few days ago.
- lmao at Djokovic's parents. Anyone else hear when they said today during the match that after Djokovic changed his diet to gluten-free, his parents opened a few gluten-free restaurants in Serbia and named them "Novak"?
BTW Carillo cracks me up. She really talks like "1 of the boys". I can't imagine having a mother who sounds and looks like that.
- Did those kids really come out of her? Is there any photographic evidence. There's one reason that a lot of people dislike Djoker and you just kind of touched on it, his parents. I'm not sure that I've ever seen parents more combative and rude than Djoker's parents. I mean they almost got into a fist fight with fans in the stands at the AO. They are horrible.
- R102 - great point. I remember the horrible vibes the parents gave off after Novak lost to Murray at this year's Wimbledon when they queued up outsude Murray's player's box to "pay homage" to Murray's mom and team. It reeked of Mediterranea/Balkan honour codes, the Family bowing to the new bosses.
- Let's go Serena!!!
I still think Graf is the GOAT in women's tennis but Serena is without a doubt second in that category.
- Serena at her best vs. Graf at her best would be great, though I think that Serena would win
- [quote] I'm not sure that I've ever seen parents more combative and rude than Djoker's parents.
Wait till you getta loada me.
- That dude Marv Carillo irritates the hell out of me.
He tries to be so witty with his verbal tricks, like "he's outblasting x on the short points, and outlasting x on the long points." Usually McEnroe and Manatee just politely ignore him, and there's an awkward silence.
He needs to STFU.
- Can we try to research who Carillo is either with or has been with since divorcing her husband? I doubt she's been celibate and single the whole time.
I hope Serena wipes the floor with that pretender Azarenka.
- I'm sure SeROIDna will blow Azarenka away.
- I love Mary Carillo. She's so entertaining during her Olympic interviews. She reminds me of The Rock, but with a vagina.
- Mary Carillo has a vagina?
- She'll probably show it to you, if you ask nicely... She seems like a fun gal.
- Mary Carillo is a closet lesbian right?
- Carillo has 2 biological kids that she popped out herself. Many of us assume she's a lesbian but she never talked about it after divorcing her husband some time ago.
- Why doesn't Serena just wear shorts and a sports bra? She seems annoyed her skirt keeps riding up.
- Mary has a surprisingly attractive girlfriend, Sara (last name escapes me right now), and they've been together for ages.
- Jesus, listening to McEnroe, you'd think Azarenka was ranked 200 in the world and lost to Serena 6-0 6-0 every time they played. I mean, I'm picking Serena to win this too, but he talks like she hasn't got a chance.
His commentary gets worse with each passing year.
- "His commentary gets worse with each passing year."
There's hope for me.
- You're not kidding, Chrissie. I'd say you're still worse, but you're far less obnoxious.
- Exciting second set. 4-3 Williams in the tie break now.
- Agreed. A half-hour ago I thought it would be over and they're still going. Definitely one of the better women's finals in recent memory.
- Who is the cute dark blond guy next to Azarenka's coach (I believe)?
- Azarenka wins the tie break and second set. On to the final set.
- Serena is choking soooo bad ugh. Azarenka lucky as hell
- We're going to a third set. McEnroe is still trying to figure out what's happened. He's confused why the wind is only affecting the balls Serena has to hit, and not the balls Azarenka has to hit.
- Wow. Wow, just wow...
- Azarenka is proving to be a fierce queen.
- Serbs are so grabby.
- Serena's been compiling excuses throughout the match: the skirt that blows around, the super-light racket, the wind, the crowd, the line judges....
- Azarenka should have won the first set.
- Uh OOOOOO00000oooohhh!
- this final has EVERYTHING!
- Azarenka's level is constant. It's very simple-Serena plays well and she'll win. If she plays like shit she loses.
- Boo! Negro beat the pretty blonde girl!
- It's over. Serena won.
- Fuck. I hate her.
Why don't her opponents just keep hitting it from corner to corner every single point? Serena couldn't keep up the pace, moving that much, for three sets. If you can exhaust her by the middle of the second set, you're gonna win.
- Ugh! :-(
- Serena played pretty crappy tennis but thank God Azarenka played well to keep it interesting. Now on to Rafa the real GOAT.
- That celebration was little much
- I'm looking forward to seeing Rafa pick at his ass for several hours.
- R136, you've either never played tennis or watched a live match ( likely both) if you think it's that simple.
- There's a cute dark-haired guy to the left and a couple of rows below Bill Clinton.
- That's an OBSCENE amount of money the two finalists just pocketed.
- What an annoying voice the commentator has - so sonorous, she should be replaced.
- Congratulations Serena!
- I love Serena! McEnroe is right, she is the greatest of all time! Suck it haters!
- R144, unlike Chris Evert, Mary Carillo is widely acknowledged as one of the best tennis commentators. She is also known as a good sports commentator overall. She anchors NBC's Olympics coverage, including the opening ceremonies. Yes, she sounds like my fifth grade gym teacher, but she is consistently good in her commentary. Also, as a skinny queen, I wouldn't want to encounter her in a dark alley.
- Even though she hasn't beat her in a decade, I prefer Sharapova vs Serena. The matches are of much better quality.
- Serena is an absolute juicer but she's hardly alone.
- Yup! Those are high quality beatdowns Serena delivers to Sharpie
- Only us Americans are so completely obsessed with "the greatest" label. It's totally fucked up.
There is no such thing as the greatest of all time.
- I don't really understand why people think Carillo is such a good commentator. I never hear her say anything terribly insightful. The differences between her and Chrissie are:
1 dictionary; and
18 major titles.
- Hardly, 152. Chrissy is a bimbo
- Of the former players, I like Martina the best, though she tends to talk almost of much as McEnroe. Chrissie has gotten slightly better.
- Very happy for Serena. Good match, too.
Now I'll be rooting for Novak tomorrow!
- r150 is right.
Sharapova's game has no variation. I really don't expect her to beat Serena ever again, unless Serena's form starts to flop badly.
- McEnroe and Carillo were talking like Azarenka was some kind of special needs case instead of the number 2 player in the world. Like she should feel priviledged just to be breathing the same air as Serena.
- I didn't get that, r157. I thought they were very complimentary to both. Mary said point blank the winner of the match was the best player of the year.
- Men's final starts at 5pm EST? I know these two take a really long time to get things done and I probably will catch part of the match but why can't they wait until 6 or 7?
- Mary Carillo is a doll. I could easily see myself being friends with that cheeky broad.
- Great job, Serena!!! Let's hear it for American tennis!!!
- So Mary Carillo is a Lesbian?????
- "So Mary Carillo is a Lesbian?????"
No, Rose! She's Lebanese.
- Mary Carillo and Pam Shriver are strictly dickly.
- Mary Carrillo and Cliff Drysdale are my favorites.
- R165, I agree. Cliff is a great, if not the best, tennis commentator.
- YES!!!! GO, SERENA!!!!
17 Grand Slam Titles! Amazing!
- Cliffy is great. So are Robbie Koenig and Jason Goodall on TC.
Gimmelstob stinks. Martina is a smart commentator, but talks too much.
- 17? How adorable!
- Yeah, I was wondering what people thought about Martina and Gimmelstob. On another forum many people hate Gimmelstob because they think he's annoying and tries too hard. But you have to admit that he is very knowledgeable. Most like Martina but some say she's bland and dull.
- Has Serena's father stop coming to her matches?
- Can someone please tell McEnroe to stop saying "menally" tough? There's a "t" in that word, sir!
- So glad Serena survived her uncharacteristic choke and pulled out the win. 17 majors-Martina Navratilova is sulking tonight lol. Earlier this year, she admitted she hopes Serena won't reach 18 or more majors because she doesn't want her achievements surpassed. What a sour, bitter bitch. Navratilova never liked Serena or Graf because she feels that both threaten her place in the game. I personally think there's room for all of those tennis greats. I don't like Evert, but it's nice of her to say (at least publicly) that she hopes Serena wins more than 18 majors.
- Graf, who has 22 majors and retired at 29 years old, has written wonderfully gracious statements about Serena on her Facebook page.
- Serena made a great recovery! Hope we can have more American players to break through.
- Martina was playing during a much more competitive time. The number of women today competing to be tennis stars is fewer than the number competing to be weight lifters.
- There's way more money in tennis for female athletes so I kind of doubt that.
- There were really not alot of other tennis players that could have really challenged Martina when she played in her prime.
Evert, Graf, and Seles.
Are there others?
Serena in her prime, there are/were Azarenka, Sharapova, Venus, and Henin that comes to mind.
The depth seems about the same to me.
- I still think Sloan was Serena's most dangerous opponent. Sloan needs to mature, work hard, get with the right people and she will definitely win slams.
- Venus, Henin, Clijsters and Capriati were really the only challengers Serena had. Azarenka is too new and Sharapova is a joke. And frankly, Venus handed Serena several of their GS finals.
- Yeah, the first set of Serena/Sloane really was the highest quality women's tennis we saw this tourny IMO.
- Azarenka was lucky to reach the final. Ivanovic was too much of a headcase and let her off the hook, while the rest of Azarenka's draw was pathetically easy.
The final was competitive because Serena was nervous. Normally she's one of the very best wind players.
I'd like to see Sloane and Ana win a title each in the next few weeks before the season is over.
- Gimelstob isn't too bad as a commentator, but he's a complete douchebag IRL, so I can't stand listening to him.
One of the very best who nobody talks about is Davenport. Very insightful, doesn't talk too much, and gives you a sense of what the players are going through without making it all about her.
Davenport, Carillo, Cliffie, and Darren Cahill are my faves.
Tony Trabert and Fred Stolle don't commentate anymore (or Fred might still do some work in Australia), but they're in my hall of fame.
- Carillo used to be good, but she's really slipped in recent years, starting when Federer began to fall off. I think she's burnt out. And she can't stand Nadal to the point where it affects her objectivity. During an earlier round of Serena's, she went out of her way to go in on him apropros nothing. JMac just abruptly changed the subject.
Chrissie may be a dingbat, but at least she's more upfront about her biases. At one of their more recent matches, when she was asked for her prediction, she just said "Federer! Because I like him more." Haha!
Anyway, weirdly the ATP site shows Nadal winning the USO on the Djokovic-Nadal H2H. If I were superstitious, I'd think that was a jinx for Nadal. Better give those shorts a few extra yanks for good luck, Rafa!
- Oh hey, it's not there anymore.
- Carillo may think Nadal is a cheat, R184, and with her Real Sports with Bryant Gumbel connections, she may have heard evidence to back the rumors.
- r186 - She clearly believes Nadal's team "cheats" by coaching him from the stands, but that's grasping to conclude her stank attitude is because she has some insider knowledge of him being a drugs cheat.
She may have heard rumours, but if actual evidence were so widely available that it would trickle down to Carillo, that's one hell of a conspiracy.
But let's not let this thread end on a "whatever player I don't like must be cheating!" note.
I think she's just over it and doesn't bother hiding her preferences so much anymore. And it genuinely picks her ass (so to speak) that Uncle Toni might be giving his nephew an assist from the stands.
- Serena had the significantly tougher draw so I'm glad she won. I was in the stands for the Sloane/Serena match and Sloane's forehand is scary good. Her movement is impressive as well. Once she grows into her abilities, she is going to win more than one slam.
- Another feel-good story of the USO is that wildcard entrant in the junior girls' draw Tornado Alicia Black finished runner up to the #2 ranked girl. That is pretty impressive. Yes, her name is Tornado lol.
- 'Martina Navratilova is sulking tonight lol'
Uh she's probably making sweet lady love to her gorgeous girlfriend.
- R187 - some food for thought ahead of this evening's final (and re yesterday's, too, although Serena isn't mentioned directly iirc).
- Mary Joe Fernadez deserves all the credit for Serena's win. She helped coach her to the Olympic gold last year and she is the true coach, giving her vast experience as a champion to the younger American girl. That's nice.
- Mary Joe Fernandez is Serena's coach? She has more experience than Serena and Serena has so much to learn from her? Despite all her achievements, being perhaps even the greatest women's tennis player in history, Serena can still be dismissed as simply a "girl"? (Oh, and since Serena is the "younger American girl", Fernandez is the older girl?)
- Except, that article is full of shit, r191.
- Why so, r194?
- [quote] she's probably making sweet lady love to her gorgeous girlfriend
Well I hope she had the foresight to execute a pre-nup this time. Otherwise, at the rate Martina goes through ladies, she'll never retire. I say this as a friend.
- LOVE this OP.
- Carillo just keeps whipping out these stupid comments that are so pointless. She states them as if she has some kind of great insight, but they land like a fart in the wind.
- Men's final fantasy prediction:
4 hours of sweating, grinding, grueling, tense, riveting, ballspanking action.
Followed by another hour in the locker room.
- So... how many sets will it take for Djokovic to win today? My guess is 4.
- Did anyone here read the Djokovic profile in The New Yorker the other week?
- Nadal will win today.
- Yes, it was posted in the other thread, R201.
- Carling Bassett is going to come out of retirement to challenge Serena.
Whatever happened to Tracy Austin as a tennis commentator? And no one even talks about her as a player anymore.
- The strident Carillo hate from a couple of you is odd. Who can hold that much contempt for someone so innocuous? I like Nadal, and think Carillo is entitled to her opinion - Nadal wins anyways, so the point is moot.
- Yes, r201, we discussed it on the other thread.
Because, r195, it's innuendo, gives no evidence that anyone with any knowledge of real-life events could believe, and is generally vile and offensive.
Basically that article, or whatever it is, which is from a year ago, hypothesises that Nadal was out for a brief period because he was given a "silent ban" for having tested positive for banned substances. First of all, what an insult to any reader's intelligence. There would never be such a "silent ban" - if there is the entire tennis world is a con and a lie, covering up for doping players. The ATP, the WTA, all the tournaments, all the Grand Slams, they're all just a fraud and taking us for a ride. So, if the whole game is so corrupt, then why would they even bother banning someone for doping.
Then, it's well-known that Nadal has had knee problems for the past few years and has had to take time out one more than one ocassion. The author of the article doesn't actually say whether Rafa had been - in his opinion - caught doping before and given more than one so-called "silent ban". But, Rafa's whole style of play can very easily lead to damaged knees, there's nothing remarkeable about that or suspicious about his injuries.
Also very specific to Rafa's type of play is the fact that he's mainly a clay court player and his Grand Slam dominance is mainly at the French Open. He has "only" won the other Grand Slams a total of four times. Djokovic has won the Aussie, Wimbledon and US Open six times. Is he doping too? So, yes, Rafa is a very skilled player, one of the best, but his greatness mainly comes from one surface - and that kind of playing profile cannot be "engineered" by doping.
Then, what about the other players? Surely, they would know, they must have been informed or suspect something? If they've not been informed, then the official tennis bodies are truly corrupt! But, if the other players aren't aware of it, then how does this obscure, irrelevant blog writer get to know? And, if the other players do know about it, then why don't they seem to care? Surely all the players who've lost to Nadal would be bringing lawsuits?
Not to mention, he's in the final at the US Open. Since that article was written Rafa has also won the French Open. Presumably if he had been caught doping and banned then he'd be under really strict supervision. In which case, he must truly be a remarkeable player to reach the final of two Slams without doping. Especially if he's supposedly being doping all these years - suddenly, without banned drugs, he's able to improve so much through dopeless training that he can make the final of a Grand Slam. And remain number 2 in the world.
- Damn.... King Kong won.
Azarenka did herself proud though. She would have won if she could have gotten some 1st serves in.
Also, for the 1st time, it dawned on me that she has a pretty face.
- Sithole finishes on top!
The previously mentioned Lucas Sithole won the men's wheelchair quad title yesterday.
He becomes the first man from an African country to ever be a title holder at the US Open - at least according to the attached.
- Roger Federer has South African citizenship.
- Who won the ladies doubles?
- r210, see r88.
The Czech team of Hlavackova/Hradecka won. And for good measure they took out the Williams sisters on their way to the title.
- Rafa for the win. I'm pumped but I'm so nervous. And if I'm so nervous just watching, I'm sure it's 10 times worse for the players ( especially Serena yesterday) but I expect Rafa to handle his nerves much better than Serena did.
- Doesn't it seem that Djoker is striking the ball unusually hard today? Haven't seen him do that all year. Could it be adrenaline or ....
- Maybe he thinks he can outhit Rafa and force errors that way. I don't think it's a good strategy. God I'm so nervous.
- Maybe Djoker wants to dictate play and keep Rafa on defense. But Rafa is great on defense.
- I wish Rafa would go back to the grip change on serve which allowed him to hit bigger serves and win more free points. But he didn't like the grip :-(
- Azarenka "pretty face"? Lies you tell! Bitch is fugly. If she had a nose job she would look decent but as is, she is homely.
Serena the diva plays tennis with her cat eye makeup. YESSSSSS. The Queen of tennis.
- Djoko looks like he got his haircut at Supercuts....strange.
Nadal up one set.....6-2
- Hottie ball boy isn't working the final match of the year! Sad.
Unless they end up doing a shift change for a long match and he ends up coming in later.
- Rafa is looking amazing out there so far.
- Too much Spanish muscle.
- Imagine being a ball boy in a Rafa match. You're so close to that ass you could reach out and touch....
- Joker needed that first set more badly than Nadal did. Odds of him winning are slim to none now...
- I hope so, R223. If Rafa can get this second set I'll feel a bit less nervous.
- I tuned in to see Rafa looking good only to see Djoker about to break.
- Is it just me or is djoker super skinny right now?
- Who is the dude that Leo DiCaprio is sitting with? And why does Leo's hair look like that?
And when did Alec Baldwin get fat again? His fingers look like plump sausages. Somebody get the paparazzi after him!
- Carlos Costa is sexy as hell
- r226 - Yes, he has a very strict diet.
Next to hockey player Ovechkin he looks made of pipe cleaners.
- Agreed r228. Very handsome guy.
For the longest time I thought he was related to the family - cause he's always with Uncle Tony and I kind of thought he looked like a younger, better looking version of him.
- He's super skinny, R226. I like his proportions but he's way to skinny to be sexually appealing. At least for me.
- Djokovic is not penetrating at all today. That's allowing Rafa to keep his balls deep.
That's a winning formula.
- Fixed the link. Skinny Djokerman with Kirilenko's BF:
- Yea but I mean skinny as in he has lost weight....I'd say at least ten pounds since his first #1 year in 2011. Looking real Hantuchova circa 2004.
- I think the chair umpire (Jake Garner) would be hot if he lost about 60 pounds.
He's kind of a cute chubster though.
- Are Djoker's legs tired already?
- Terrible serving from
Joker, he can't seem to bring his A game when he needs it today.
- Oh and yes Djoker has lost weight since 2011. And it really shows in his face.
- Used to think the talk of Rafa juicing was bullshit but no more
- After 1 hour and 23 minutes I'm giving up on this match. There is no way that what's happening on that court, right now, is naturally humanly possible.
You all get back to me in 5-7 years time, when one of these gets his Lance Armstrong moment.
- What's the over/under for the number of times Nadal will pull on his undies each serve?
- They don't juice...and if they do the atp knows and doesn't care.
- As if juicing would be beneficial in tennis. I can't believe I'm even entertaining this. I won't do it again.
Even if Rafa loses this set, he has delivered enough body blows.
- Vamos Joker!!
- R243, of course it's bloody beneficial in tennis, you idiot. All that crap about tennis being a skill sport and you can't use PEDs to help you place a ball is just that--crap.
And if you can't see that the current state of tennis is very much like the Festina years in cycling, then I've got a bridge you might be interested in.
- Nole looks really strong now.
- I see the steroid trolls are out. They graciously spared us during the women's final. Why even watch the sport?
Anyway, I'm glad Novak finally came to life. I have nothing to do tonight so five sets would suit me fine(so long as Novak wins)!
- Oh shut up you know nothing about tennis which why you never contribute or discuss it. Steroids aren't beneficial in tennis, you dope. No one cares about you're saying which is why you're always ignored ( I read the first sentence of your post and that's it, the rest is just blah, blah, blah). Let those of us who know the game and enjoy it have a discussion about it. You're ignored.
And you see why I said he should have stuck with that serve grip? He rarely gets free points on serve.
- That's the funny thing about the steroid trolls, r248, they actually know nothing about tennis and probably barely watch it. That's why they can't see how stupid they sound when they come out with all this juicing crap.
- but they are probably taking illegal substances to help them recover from injuries etc.
no way they have no "help". only a fool believes there is no drugs in tennis. it's everywhere. Serena collected over $2 million last night from winning. It's high stakes, they will do whatever they have to.
- Exactly, R249. I don't understand why she/he even bothers? Why does this person care so much about a sport he or she knows nothing about? Bizarre.
Does anybody think this will go 5? I'm not sure right now.
- Rafa is totally a PED guy.
- Davenport has vastly improved as a commentator. When she first started she was flat-out awful.
I think Austin was dumped because Chrissie absolutely loathes her. And face it, Evert sucks but she has a far better resume.
- Steroids are beneficial to the serve.
- 1-1 in sets and Djoker up a break in set three. Hooray!
- Is that true, R253? Chrissie hates Austin that much? Are there any stories? I can definitely see her having Austin fired.
- Not anymore, R255.
- The reason you were "graciously" spared the juicing trolls for the women's event is because the only two participating in any "appreciation" of the game were the only two people left on DL who are silly enough to believe that Serena is clean and worth following in her mighty, GOAT triumphs. Give us a break!
Oh, and some of us have been following tennis for well on 40 years (no, I'm no spring chicken), so you can fuck off about us not knowing anything about the sport.
- seriously anybody knows abt nadal's superstitions? i know he has to have the evian bottle face a certain way. what else?
- Djoker is trying to end the points quickly which makes me think his legs are feeling a little heavy.
- I will agree with the posters stating that Carlos Costa is looking mighty fine. He looks like a model.
- I think he wants to stay aggressive rather than have Nadal dictate points. Both guys are in superb shape.
- Maybe, R262. But in that game I noticed that he was making a series of errors in a row which made me thing he was feeling it in that particular game. But it's hard to say really, because sometimes the players play possum.
- I'm thinking there have been several years where the average women's serve speed was higher than the men's and nobody remarked on it.
- I love that shot they showed of Djoker returning serve ( did you see all he had to do in order to return it?), the viewer got to see just how much freaking spin Rafa gets on his serve.
- I would ride Carlos Costa all night and call him daddy
- Fuck, joker had multiple opportunities to establish/ maintain a lead in that set, and missed them. That's what happens.
- Rafa was so much better than Novak in 2010. Novak was so much better than Rafa in 2011.
Now it feels like they're completely even.
- There's no strident hatred for Carillo, at least not from me. She's simply annoying because she's too in love with her mediocre rhetorical flourishes and she offers too little in the way of insight.
- Rafa's sister is beautiful. I remember a nerdy kid but she has blossomed (MARY)!
- [There's no strident hatred for Carillo, at least not from me. She's simply annoying because she's too in love with her mediocre rhetorical flourishes and she offers too little in the way of insight.]
- Shades of the WTA with all the breaks, huh?
- But I should note that these are the best returners in the game.
- Novak seems to have lost the thread. This is disappointing (as a fan at least).
- People saying that there would be no benefit to PEDs in tennis are fucking trolls or they don't know shit about modern PEDs. It ain't just steroids anymore.
- Jeez what the fuck is wrong with joker, Nadal is just hitting the ball back and he gives the match away!! Ugh
- And it fittingly ends with an errant Djokovic forehand. Blurg.
- Jesus, listen to these trashy, garbagey New Yorkers who won't shut the fuck up on match point.
- Congrats to Nadal, but disappointing for Joker. He found a way to lose when Nadal wasn't playing his best.
- The US Open has sort of become a joke. A lot of celebs are attending that don't know anything about tennis. I'm surprised the kardashians haven't shown up to watch
- How can anyone not love Rafa? What a great athlete, wonderful. So happy to see him win again. Clearly the world's best this year.
- Rafa is the GOAT! 13 in 13!
Those body blows wore Djoker down physically and mentally.
- Does anyone think that Djoker looks like a more attractive version of Screech from Save By the Bell?
- Joker shows glimpses of his 2011 form, but hasn't been able to keep that high level throughout entire matches and it showed in this final. Two yrs ago he would have finished Nadal off once he gained the momentum. I hope 2011 wasn't a fluke but his confidence and belief seem to be waning.
Very happy that Rafa won. I am liking him more and more, the way he has evolved, changed his tactics whenever it was necessary, the constant improvement. He has come so far from just being a clay specialist.
I also feel bad for Nole.
- Serena and Rafa are having almost identical seasons.
- I'm also happy for Rafa. He's a great champion, a nice guy, he seems to like the gays, and at his best he can beat anyone else, at their best.
Plus, he has DAT ASS!!!
- Yes, R284. A lot of people think that just Google their names together. But you're right to add "a more attractive version." He's just too thin.
Anyway Congrats Rafa! He's the best. Rafa is a great champion and I'm so happy for him. I do think he will catch Roger, he just has to stay healthy.
- You're right, they are, R287? That's very interesting. And the good thing is I like them both. I'm so happy for Serena and Rafa. They are two of my favorite players. They're great!
- I'm glad Rafa won too but, I'll take Novak's ass over Rafa's.
- Novak's ass isn't that big, though, is it? I've never actually bothered to look at it, as entranced as I am by Rafa's...
- Really? You have to admit that's kind of shocking. Or is it that you have a preference for smaller butts?
- R197, why do you love OP?
- R204. Tracy is still a commentator, for the Tennis Channel I believe.
- Vamos Rafa...So glad he won. I bet he is great in bed if he displays the same confidence and fight he has when he is on the tennis court.
- Djokovic is not what he was in 2011, but that's how it goes. Federer was incredible in that he managed to peak for such a long period.
It will be interesting to see how Djokovic responds next season. He's an incredible player, but his house is built on a shaky foundation in some ways. I have a feeling the placebo effect of his whacky diet and top secret fitness regime is wearing off.
He also seems to consider himself superior to Nadal and I'm not sure that mentality is working for him anymore. He's won 6 slams to Nadal's 13, and 4 of his slams are Australian Opens, the least prestigious of the 4. He could barely choke out a gracious sentiment after he lost. (Though his response to Carillo's dorky first question was funny.)
And it's hubris to keep planning these big galas for the day after slam finals that he obviously expects to win. He's 0 for 3.
- I prefer a small a ass, r292
- R296, I don't think he's hung. But it doesn't matter, and it wouldn't take much confidence to just lie there and let me make love to his ass.
- Wouldn't it be a shame if Rafa has never been rimmed? How can he go his whole life without letting someone else smell and taste that ass?
- Damn, R297, I didn't know about the gala thing. On one hand that comes across as very arrogant but on the other hand it would seem that the best player's have to have a little arrogance about their abilities. And I'm sorry but he's insane if he truly thinks he's superior to Rafa. Rafa is the GOAT and Djoker isn't even in the discussion. But if he needs to believe that go for it I guess. But it obviously isn't true.
I knew those body blows would catch up to Djoker. What a great match.
- Yeah, asses like that are a waste on straight men. What a shame.
- I said Rafa would win and I was right.
- R304, is your name Chris Evert?
- Rafa has an ugly face.
- Yay Rafa!!
Glad he won. He was fierce in the beginning and happy he was able to sustain it throughout.
- I think Novak has to go back to Pancakes and Spaghetti!
- Eh, that final was shitty. Djokovic actually showed up for maybe one hour of the match, not even. Other than that it was unforced errors galore, Nadal didn't have to do much.
I wonder why Djokovic can't get it done in big matches anymore. The only two big matches he's won in the last two years are the Australian Opens. Thoughts? I love that he just released a book lauding his fad diet. Apparently it's not working so well anymore, is it Djoker?
It's downright hilarious that he continues to schedule these charity galas for the day after he loses the slam.
- Whoever said Davenport is a good commentator is right. She's improved so much and she makes it interesting because of her insider knowledge.
- r309 - It wasn't that bad. It just wasn't epic.
I knew Djoker was going to lose when he celebrated like he'd won the championship after winning that 54 stroke rally on break point, only to be broken right back.
I think Novak is still living in 2011 in his mind. Back then he had a mental advantage over everyone, especially Nadal, and could will himself to winning the big ones. Meanwhile, Nadal has beaten him 6 of 8 times they've met in 2012 & 13. And Murray has creeped up on him too.
In his foundation message, he says: "Today, I have realized my childhood dream and became the best tennis player in the world with multiple Grand Slam titles." I mean, even if he didn't write that personally, it says a lot about Team Djokovic that they're putting that out there in an era where there are still 2 active players far more accomplished than him. It's not technically inaccurate, but it does make me wonder if he believes too much in his own legend.
- Incidentally, if you still have the match recorded, check the ball boy with the glasses and ball cap in the 3rd set, at 3-all, right after Nadal breaks back. He's sitting on a chair right behind where Nadal is towelling off at the back of the court and is totally checking Rafa's sweaty ass and smiling. He does a quick look, then a lingering double take. Ahhhh.
- Rafa is the class of the field, both on the court and as amn ambassador for the sport. r297 is right to point out that Djokovic had to swallow hard to say anything gracious aboyuthis opponent in his on coourt copmments after the mtch. nadal on the other hand was a gentlemen and most complimentary toward Djokovic. And nadal is that way the few times he loses as well.
- Well R311, I hope for his own sake that he wakes up and realizes that he hasn't done anything outside of Australia for a couple of years now. His fans can list how he makes almost every final all they want, but if you don't win, it means nothing.
R313, I think that's taking it a little far. Nadal went from being Djokovic's buddy to someone who could barely give him a handshake at the net after the number of times Djokovic embarrassed him in 2011. Nadal isn't some saint. I don't think there's anything about Nadal that makes him any sort of ambassador for the sport any more than Djokovic, even though Nadal has a bigger fanbase. As far as Djokovic's post-match comments, I just saw a guy who was bitterly disappointed in his own play. One thing about him is that he's not an ungracious loser.
- r314 - Being a gracious loser means sucking it up and not acting bitter; he's been in that position enough times that he should have a game face and some prepared remarks by now. He managed to be more gracious in his post-match sit down interview though.
Nadal isn't a saint, but he does a better job of loser speeches. I don't remember his net handshakes in 2011 (in photos, it doesn't look like Rafa is snubbing him at all), but I do remember that Djoker was a most obnoxious winner with the "suck my dick" comments and the shirt ripping. I don't begrudge him if that's how he likes to celebrate, but it's a bit ridiculous to be such a sour bitch when the other guy wins.
But I will say while Nadal is genuinely humble and appreciative of other players, at least a part of his effusiveness about the other top dogs is his brand of gamesmanship, always affecting to be the underdog.
- At least Djoker didn't cry like SOME losers.
Roger can't grow accustomed to losing. He hasn't had nearly as much practice at it as some.
- Djoker is annoying with his "I know how to play Rafa." Well apparently not. And Rafa is an extremely humble champion and he is most definitely humble and gracious in defeat. And unlike Djoker and company, Rafa's humility is not an act. He's an amazing champion and he is without a doubt the GOAT.
- Actually Djokovic is known by fellow players and media to be very gracious in defeat. Attached is one example, and he was very kind to Nadal at net yesterday, telling him he deserved the win.
I think Federer (and maybe Roddick) are the only players that don't like him. He seems to have a very good relationship with all the other top guys (Nadal, Murray, Del Potro, Tsonga, Wawrinka, Ferrer, Berdych, Isner, etc.).
- [quote]He's an amazing champion and he is without a doubt the GOAT.
How many times are you going to repeat that? Sheesh. We get your Rafa adoration.
This thread was fun when it was about gossip.
- I've always wondered what kind of mental illness people like, R320 have? They always want to control what people say and what people talk about while also believing that the world revolves around them and their happiness or their idea of fun.
Is it Narcissistic Personality Disorder? Or possibly something on the Autism spectrum? One of my pet peeves is people like R320 who like to rain on other people's parade and/or happiness. Someone's favorite player has added another grand slam trophy to his collection by winning one of the biggest majors in the sport just YESTERDAY and s/he is clearly very happy about that but this isn't allowed on R320's watch. Due to the fact that I have this thing called empathy, I'm aware that life can be pretty hard. Life can really kick your ass. You never really know what someone could be going through. On this very board there are longterm unemployed, people who have just lost a parent or have a dying parent, people with major depression, suicidal, damn near homeless, drug and alcohol addictions, serious health problems on and on and on. You never know what the fuck someone's going through and their favorite tennis player winning one of the biggest slams in the game could be one of the few things that bring them a moment of happiness. However,the word "GOAT" apparently shaves a year off of R320's life each time he reads it. People who shit on other people's fun or happiness are annoying assholes. And there are a lot of people like that on DL.
Plus, a thread titled "2013 U.S. Open Thread" just might actually involve discussions of the tennis matches that take place over those two weeks rather than giggly gossip.
- There is no denying that a few Nadal trolls have hijacked this thread. Claiming he is GOAT when he has 8 French opens and 5 combined of all the others is dubious at best.
- I somewhat agree, R323, that his overall Slam record is heavily stacked at the French. But he has two USO, two Wimby, and one AO. In addition, he has been runner-up three times at Wimbledon and once each at the USO and AO. I'm not a Nadal fan, but that's still a pretty good variety at the other tournaments. Roger has at least four of all the others except the French, where he was in four other finals.
I used to think Nadal wouldn't even catch Sampras, but now I think not only will he surpass Sampras, but he'll at least catch Roger, if not surpass him as well.
Ugh, won't somebody come along and beat this guy?!?!?!? I thought Djokovic was the one, but now his record against Nadal since the 2011 AO is terrible.
- Some photos from the Djokovic Foundation dinner last night.
Seems a little light on celebrities, at least from what I was expecting.
Does Goldie Hawn always wear caftans these days?
- Djokovic's greatest celebrity pull was Goldie Hawn??
- Well, Burka, Roger lost at least once, and it wasn't on the tennis court.
- r325 - Well, there were a lot of big fashion names there, including Roger's #1 fan, AW. (And, weirdly, Ricky Gervais.)
Almost no sports personalities except John McEnroe & Ryan Lochte. (OK, and could be others I just don't recognize, not being an avid sports fan outside of tennis.)
I wonder if they'll keep planning them for after slams? What if Djokovic gets knocked out early? He's going to hang around for a party?
His GF appears quite relentlessly ambitious though, and it's her deal. I used to be impressed that she had a Masters degree. Then I read it's in Luxury Brand Management. Haha! No doubt, her "thesis" was on Brand Djokovic.
- Looks like Jimmy Connors was there too.
- "Luxury brand management" and now she's managing a charity foundation? Forgive me if I doubt her intentions or the intentions of this foundation. I wonder why he hasn't put a ring on it already.
- Labeling people trolls for referring to Nadal as the GOAT sounds pretty bitter to me. The guy has 13 majors, a winning head to head versus everybody in the top 30, his record against Federer ( someone often referred to as the GOAT) is embarrassingly one-sided ( they played 31 times Fed only won 10) considering that Fed is supposed to be the greatest ever, he has won a slam on every surface, he's the only players to win a slam nine years in a row, he's already referred to as one of the greatest ever, and some tennis commentators/insiders/journalists already consider him the greatest ever.
If he stays healthy and continues to play like this who on Earth will stop him given his record against the field?
Therefore, to say that someone has to be a troll to consider a player like Nadal the greatest ever is a quite a stretch and sounds like a whole lot of bitter.If someone was claiming that Murray was the GOAT, you'd have a point, that would clearly be a troll. The way that some of you are reacting to the GOAT comment leads me to believe that you don't talk tennis outside of DL or read about it, because this is a very common discussion.
US Open Tennis 2013: Is Rafael Nadal in the Greatest of All Time Discussion?
- Burka likes to eat goat, among other things.
- And be sure to check the GOAT poll results where as of 5:22PM Pacific time, Nadal leads the poll with 51.8% to Federer's 40.3%. Therefore, proving Nadal as the GOAT is not an uncommon opinion in the tennis world.
- r330 - Their business & personal lives are so entwined, they can't afford to break up. (Most importantly - who would get Pierre?) Perhaps they are waiting for the most advantageous time for their "brand" to plan a wedding.
Meanwhile - Pierre! If he were in Djokovic's box I might actually cheer for him over dog-hater Nadal.
- Eh, R335, I can't stand little dogs like that, plus I have no respect for people who don't get dogs from a rescue. Also no one outside of big tennis fans care about Djokovic, at all. The only two names that mean anything are Federer and Nadal.
- Uhm, why is R332 cheering for Nole when the championships are over?
- Curious why people seem to discount winning to many French titles. To me, clay is the surface that rewards patience, shot selection and point construction more than any other surface. Why is that any less skillful than booming a serve and running to the net? If clay were so easy to master, then Roger, as the GOAT, should have more than one French title, right? Agassi won half his GS titles at the Austraian, yet no one seems to discount his achievements.
- Nadal has also won the Davis Cup with Spain several times, Fed never has. Nadal also has the Olympic gold medal, Fed does not. I think it's just a matter of time before Nadal and GOAT become synonymous. If Nadal can pull off another Australian Open win, he'll be the only player in the open era to win every grand slam twice.
- R337,Nole. .
- "Nadal has also won the Davis Cup with Spain several times, Fed never has."
That's because he's not Spanish.
- Federer hardly even bothers to play Davis Cup and that is something I personally don't like about him.
- American Master Billie Jean King was a tennis star in the 1970s and came out in 1981.
- I think part of the reason that Fed gets called the GOAT is that his playing style is so graceful/effortless... he's genuinely a naturally talented tennis player, you'll never see him 'grinding' out a point etc (unlike Nadal) and that's appealing.
I do think that Rafa will surpass Fed in total slams though and as other posters have pointed out, Rafa has some incredible achievements that Fed doesn't have.
- I think Rafa will catch Pete, for sure, and will probably catch Roger @ 17 majors. If he does, I think you have to say Rafa was a better player than Roger, given their head-to-head, and given Rafa's collection of Masters.
Plus, Rafa has a far superior ass.
- That's true, Dani. That ass must be considered among his many accomplishment. Rafa's ass is equivalent to 2 slams and 5 masters.
- [quote]. Also no one outside of big tennis fans care about Djokovic, at all.
Nadal and Federer really helped to build up each other's legacy with their rivalry (as one-sided as it became). Djokovic is the odd man out.
Even though Djokovic/Nadal have met more times than "Fedal", and have a more dramatic sort of history and often great matches, they just haven't caught on.
I feel bad for Djoker in a way, since he seems the thirstiest for fame and recognition and it seemingly came so much easier to the other two.
Coincidentally or not, the 4 most famous active tennis players (Serena, Sharapova, Nadal & Federer) are all sponsored by Nike.
- It's interesting, R347 because at one point I thought Djoker was going to be hugely popular but that never seemed to happen. Tennis audiences were loving his impersonations and egged him on when he'd do them. But then something happened and it all ended. Maybe it's that Rafa and Fed are so insanely popular that there isn't room for another?
- r349 - I thought he'd be hugely popular too, in a class clown sort of way, but he proved himself to be really thin-skinned (the infamous Roddick incident at the USO) and he got a rep early in his career for quitting matches when the going got tough. So he probably shot himself in the foot a bit in the early stages.
I think there's something to Rafa & Roger just sucking up a lot of tennis fans too, but Djoker just hasn't found his place either. What's his special appeal? Federer seemed like a once-in-a-lifetime sort of talent who became unbelievably dominant for a long period. Nadal was a flashy boy wonder who tennis fans saw come good at a young age. And they both have solid, defined "brands" (as revolting as I find that concept). What's the Djokovic brand?
- R350 says it right.
Federer brand = classy Swiss
Nadal brand = charging bull Spaniard
Djokovic brand = ? Serb
His nationality doesn't offer a brand either. He really should have just run with 'loveable class clown' when he had the chance. Djokovic has no fun anymore, if you've seen an interview with him all of his answers are canned. When he attempts 'fun' things these days they just come off as a lame attempt to revive the Joker image from the past but without the sweet spirit he used to have. Here's (d)Joker in the locker room at the US Open six years ago. There is such a difference in the way he comports himself now. I think he freaked out after the Roddick incident at the US Open the year later, hired a PR team, and they made him into a robot.
- I just want to say that I'm thrilled that Nadal won. I've been a fan of his for 10 years now. I admit it, I had my doubts. I didn't think he would win the match. 2011 really brought me down, the Miami tournament is his worst loss ever. Not because it was THAT important (lets face it.. it was no slam), but because of the way he lost. He had the advantage, he should have won it, but he didn't. Djokovic destroyed his mental strength that year, and it took him two years and a couple of wins over Djokovic (especially on hard court), to gain that confidence back. That's why, after all he's been through.. injury, lacking in confidence.. to come back and win three back to back hard court titles, including a slam, is miraculous. I don't think you realize how much this means to him. Considering his history of injuries, it's even sweeter. Yes, I admit it. I nearly cried when he won (Mary! I know), but it's just that he's been through so much, and overcome so many obstacles in his career. He deserved it. He made a great comeback, and you can bet your ass he deserved that trophy. He wanted it so much. I've never seen any player with that much determination, fighting spirit and share will power. You could tell how much it meant to him too.
- Miraculous? Try drugs. These guys are a lot smarter than in the past and know how to cycle miracle cures in between tests. Nadal is the classic case of a player who rationalizes that other players are juicing so he needs to do it if it's therapy for his knees. I'd put nothing past Uncle Toni.
It amazes me how people accept that his knee was bad enough to hobble him from the tour and then watch him come back with no signs of injury and call it a miracle.
And yes, crying over Nadal's win makes you a Mary.
- I love that clip of Djoker. He seems so relaxed, sure of himself, and not trying too hard. Djoker is clearly very observant (Duh!). I guess that should be obvious otherwise he wouldn't be able to do those impression so well without missing any of the player's individual quirks.
Observant people tend to be naturally reserved and/or quiet. People who joke a lot or love to make others laugh as we know tend to be people who harbor a lot of pain. That pretty much describes me. I'm extremely observant, naturally reserved, and enjoy making people laugh. So I kind of relate to Djoker in that sense which makes me feel for him.
He seems to have a strong need to be revered. And I think the tennis audience is aware and find his try-hard antics off-putting. I think the audience sees his dancing routines and things as calculated and purposeful rather than carefree and spontaneous.
I think these things along with the Roddick incident, his early reputation for calling for the trainer, his inability to handle an audience cheering for his opponent, and the simple fact that he was unlucky enough to come up during a time when we have two of the best and most popular players in the history of the game, makes things hard for Djoker. One thing I must say though is that video makes you miss the days when Djoker had an ass.
- Great post, R352. The one thing I admire most about Nadal as a player is his ability to overcome huge obstacles. For a minute there, Djoker really had his number and things were looking bleak. I remember watching that USO final that Djoker won and I was totally shocked, I had not seen anyone do that to Nadal in God knows how long.
Nothing worked and I had never seen Nadal so frustrated. But I knew that he would work as hard as he could and find an answer to Djoker and he did. Rafa is a fighter, a warrior, a bull. And he gets no credit for his strategic play. Rafa employs great strategy in his matches but gets very little credit for it. It's all about his topspin, but he's much more than just topspin. The guy is simply amazing on and off the court. We are some very lucky tennis fans I tell you.
- What's the Roddick incident at the U.S. Open?
- R353.. yes, it's definitely possible to recover from an injury. Heck, he NEVER recovered from his knee injury. It's not an injury per se either. It's a chronic condition, it will NEVER get better. He even said himself that it still hurts, but yes.. it's better than it was some months ago.
You need to consider that he has had like 8 months to rest, while the other players played lots of matches during that time. It's possible, through treatment to his knees (NOT juicing, like you say, but completely legal treatment), to come back and do what he did. He was well rested and fresh and fit when he came back. His game is more aggressive and better than ever too.
I would have perhaps agreed with you IF Nadal runs down every ball and is faster than ever. But he's not. He just moves smarter. He's playing more aggressive and he has shortened the shots. He's not even playing THAT amazingly. IF Djokovic was at his 2011 level, and Rafa came back and outplayed Nole.. yes, I would have probably thought about him juicing too. I think part of Rafa's successful comeback is due to other players just sucking, and him taking advantage of it. That said, he also had a fairly easy way to the USO win. He played well, sure.. but he didn't face any of the top players until the final. Who knows what would have happened if he had faced Murray or Fed. I actually think Murray would have won it.
Considering the treatment to his knees, him coming back fresh and fit and well rested, with an improved and more aggressive game, AND taking advantage of the other players playing badly... is it really that weird that he has done well? Great comebacks have happened on the WTA tour too.. yet nobody claims they're doping.
The thing is.. I don't think there's enough proof to say he's doping. IF he indeed is doping (not that I think he is), lets focus on that WHEN he has been caught. Until then.. he's innocent until proven guilty. Even discussing doping is insane when you have no proof.
- R354, nice post. His Federer impression at three minutes into that clip is actually pretty funny, much funnier than any of the stunts he tries to pull now.
R356, the Roddick incident was Roddick making fun of Djoker's reputation for medical timeouts and injuries during a press conference at the 2008 US Open. Djoker then beat Roddick and basically said "I guess I'm not so injured after all" in his on court interview, and the crowd booed. See video link.
A few years later, he won the Open and wore a FDNY 9-11 hat during the ceremony. So appallingly calculated.
- Again, Djokovic can't win. Almost everyone was saying he should stop with the impersonations because the players were upset (mainly Federer probably) and he did...now he's no fun. If he hadn't tried to "reconcile" with the US Open crowd, he would have been seen as rude and immature.
- Nobody has a perfect record. The weaknesses in Fed's record would be only one French, never beat Nadal there (although he has beaten him on clay), and his H2H against Nadal (Murray has a winning record against him, too).
For Sampras, it was that he not only never won the French, he wasn't even in a final. For Agassi, it's that most of his Slams are at the AO. Lendl never won Wimbledon. McEnroe only won Wimby and the USO. Conners never won the French. Borg never won the AO or USO.
Currently for Nadal it's that his Slams are mostly at the French. But otherwise, Nadal's record is pretty unimpeachable. If he ties Fed, I think you'd have to give the edge to Nadal. If he surpasses Fed, there won't even be an argument as to who was better.
- Serena is obviously now playing for history/legacy. I saw her play in the semis against Li Na at Cincinnati this year, where she was far below her usual standard. She clearly took her game up a few notches for the USO, especially in the match against Stephens. I think she'll do the same between now and the Australian Open -- play, play moderately well, but not risk injury or burnout in between the slams.
I wonder if/when Nadal will clearly shift to a similar strategy. One way to protect his knees is to play less over the course of the year and focus on the Masters and slams. For example, surely he won't play the South American tournaments again next year. If he wins in Australian again, he will have won every slam at least twice. I wonder if we'll see the kind of focus he brought to the French and USO going into Australia for that reason. I also think he might focus more on the few Masters events he hasn't won so that he can have all of those -- Federer doesn't, and Djokovic is just one away.
- I frankly don't understand why Serena doesn't win every slam. She is so vastly superior to the other women on the tour, you'd think she would be aiming for a Grand Slam, well within her reach.
- r359 - It was to his advantage that he stopped with the impersonations, since he was better known for those than his game. Plus, jokers tend to underachieve (see Safin & Monfils). And it while it was funny to most people when he was an up-and-coming player, it would be tacky for a top player to do impersonations of players he's beating. Not the look.
But yeah, he's in a tough position in that he craves popularity but doesn't have the tools or the opportunity to achieve it. So far. That can change though.
- R337, "Nole" is just a way that these Grand Slam threads are bumped. Instead of "Bump" or "Up", "Nole" is used.
- The weakness in Nadal's record (currently) is weeks spent at no. 1. He's got 102 weeks to his name, but Federer (302) and Sampras (286) far outpace him. The argument would be: How can Nadal be GOAT when he was ranked no. 1 for only two years of his career?
He'll almost certainly return to no. 1 (unless he skips play from now to February), the question will be for how long?
- Nadal will likely have a lengthy stay at number one given he is only going to gain points for the rest of the season and seems intent on finishing with a full schedule for the year. Nole still has the points from winning the World Finals to defend and the Australian Open for next year. Nadal will lengthen his lead in points until after the Australian Open, when he will have to defend the points of winning 7 tournaments within the first half of the year.
Nadal's legacy is a work in progress, which is why it is silly to have conversations about where he stacks up against other players of different eras that completed their careers. His dominance on clay courts is legendary. However, he has never been overly dominant on any other surface (notwithstanding this hard court season), so his grand slam total is screwed due to his overwhelming dominance on clay. For anyone to discount this fact suggests huge bias. Let him get more majors besides the French before you start claiming a stronger record than Federer, whose game would have been dominant on all surfaces had Rafa not been in the way of the French Open.
Also, Nadal fans are quick to dismiss Joker's accomplishments, but if you are suggesting Nadal is the GOAT, wouldn't you also have to elevate the man who has beaten him more than any other on the tour?
- *screwed= skewed
- R66, nicely argued and all, but ...
You forgot about DAT ASS!!!
- r366 - I agree it's pointless to discuss Nadal's career while it's still in progress. But then, I find GOAT discussions kind of uninteresting in general.
[quote] Nadal fans are quick to dismiss Joker's accomplishments, but if you are suggesting Nadal is the GOAT, wouldn't you also have to elevate the man who has beaten him more than any other on the tour?
Elevate him to what? Rafa was his bitch in 2011, but he still has a winning record against Djokovic. Sure, it's an accomplishment for Djoker that he's beaten Rafa more than other players, but they've also met more times than any other players so he's had more opportunities.
But hey, I don't discount Djokovic. Maybe he'll be the one who overtakes Federer's record. He claimed in his post-match interview after the USO that he feels his best is yet to come, and he's in a good position. Murray is streaky. Nadal's longevity is a huge question mark. Federer isn't a factor. And there are no young players who seem ambitious enough to challenge the current top dogs. Who's going to stop him?
- Admittedly Nadal is just a bad match-up for Roger. But their H2H is just embarrassing for Fed. As a supposed GOAT, Fed should have figured out how to beat Nadal, even on clay. He hasn't. Even if you factor out clay court matches, Nadal still has a slight lead.
I think Fed feels that he is simply the most talented player on the court, whomever he plays, and that he doesn't have to alter his game. And he doesn't against most. But against Nadal he certainly does.
- Good points, R370, but I think Fed *has* tried to alter his game to beat Rafa. He's tried coming into net, he's tried staying back, he's tried being more aggressive off the first ball.
There is no solution short of using two hands on the backhand, because Rafa knows all he needs to do is hit his heavy spin to that wing, and Roger will miss.
- R366, The case for Rafa's greatness has been made over and over again and continues to be made every time he steps foot on a court. Rafa is without a doubt the most fierce competitor of our time with one the most brilliant tennis minds. We all know that his physicality is impressive but his tennis mind ( which is rarely discussed) is second to none.
What else can be said that hasn't already been said? 13 majors, the only player to win a slam nine years in a row, his lop-sided head to head over the tentative GOAT, the second player ever to win multiple titles on 3 different surfaces, he entered this years open with a winning record against every player in the field, his lifetime winning percentage of 83.7 is better than any active player, he has a gold medal and has spear-headed Spain to 4 Davis Cup titles ( Fed no gold, no Davis Cup)....
The argument that his slam titles are terre battue heavy and therefore disqualifying him as GOAT is pretty weak considering (1 Pete never won the FO and 7 of his 14 were at Wimby(2 Rafa has won every major at least once(3 Court surfaces have become increasingly homogenous. At one time, the court surfaces were drastically different and required radically different styles of play which resulted in a multitude of specialists emerging.Today's game is relatively absent of specialists, particularly at the top. Today's game is an all court game. The game Rafa employs to beat Djoker at the FO is the same game he plays to beat Djoker at the USO.
Djoker's losing record against Rafa says nothing about Djoker other than he's in good company. Doing a little better against Rafa than others have doesn't make him great. As far as your woulda/coulda/shoulda about Fed winning the FO if it wasn't for Rafa, it really doesn't matter. He simply wasn't good enough to beat Rafa and thus did not win. Roddick could have won several Wimbledons if weren't for Fed, tough luck. You're either good enough to beat the competition in front of you or you aren't. I feel kind of sad for those of you who are unable to appreciate Rafa's brilliance, boy are you missing out.
- Sorry r372 but your argument is inconsistent...you say that Rafa is greatest ever but then you minimize the fact that Joker is the only man to have beaten him 7 times in a row, in 3 consecutive major finals no less. I hope for your sake Rafa can keep his streak going to keep you from opening up a vein. Your obsession is straight up creepy dude. And I didn't say his dominance on clay disqualifies him from GOAT, I just said you claiming this now is premature and clearly biased. You should also pay closer attention to Nadal's style of play on clay versus hard courts, his game IS completely different on the two surfaces- he constructs points more fully on clay and can use a more defensive game. He also returns serve from way behind the baseline on clay, but is much closer to the baseline on hard courts. He wants to finish points much faster on hard courts and goes for the winners 2 or 3 shots in the rally if possible. I give him credit for changing his tactics dependent on the surface.
- R373, I'm being to be very honest and I hate to be rude (but you clearly didn't mind being rude) so I'll just say it, you aren't very familiar with the specifics of tennis. I didn't want to be rude when I first addressed you but your Federer woulda/coulda/ shoulda was in all honesty very silly and hard to take seriously.
And the argument that Djoker should somehow be lauded as one of the greats because he beat Rafa 7 times in a row 2 years ago is again very silly. I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make. I feel like you're arguing to just argue about something. Rafa has a lopsided winning record over Fed, Djoker does not have a winning record over Rafa, there is no equivalency there. It just doesn't work that way. Good lord. And because I completely demolished your argument (?) with facts and of course you had no valid argument, you called me "creepy." Which I guess settles it.
You need to learn the difference between point construction and overall style of play. Your examples of ending points quickly is an example of point construction/strategy not a style of play. Rafa and all of the top players are aggressive/power baseliners. And they employ this style of play on every surface, because the surfaces have become homogenous.
Your assertion that Rafa's style of play is completely different on clay makes no sense ( is he somehow pulling and S&V first and second without me noticing?) and means that you need to take your own advice and pay closer attention to the game. I don't know how old you are, I'm relatively young myself so I can't really go there, however, I still remember a time when it was very unusual for the same players to dominate on all surfaces or win majors on every surface. It's the norm now, but this is a relatively recent phenomenon.
And I touched on the reason for this in my previous post and it's because the surfaces were drastically different, each requiring a very specific STYLE OF PLAY which did not usually translate to other surfaces. This back and forth has clearly been a bust ( I need to read a report for Pammie to lighten the mood) Anyway, here's an article that supports pretty much everything I said about homogenous court surfaces ( and style of play). It should give you a better idea of what style of play is referring to.
"One of the side effects of these slower playing conditions has been the elimination of stylistic diversity. In years past, players like Sampras and John McEnroe favored aggressive, attacking tennis, while others like Borg and Ivan Lendl preferred a defensive game that relied on long rallies and powerful, grand strokes. Some of tennis' most historic matches and storied rivalries involved clashes between offensive- and defensive-oriented players. It used to also be somewhat common for a player to be referred to as a clay-court specialist or grass-court specialist. But as the conditions at major tournaments began to all resemble one another, specialization started to go extinct. Former player and coach Darren Cahill recently told USA Today that the surfaces at the major tournaments are now quite similar and noted that advances in racket technology have also played a role in this homogenization."
"All of the top players todayemploy the power-baseline style that Jimmy Connors and Lendl pioneered and Agassi perfected. It is the most effective style given the slower playing conditions that are now the norm. This new homogeneity benefits top players like Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic, because their skills easily translate to all the major tournaments. If a top player can perfect the power-baseline game, he can put himself in position to compete at every grand slam and does not need to worry about making wild adjustments depending on the surface. For most of the Open Era, top players struggled with the transition from the clay-court season to the grass-court season because the surfaces were so drastically different and specialist players like grass-court..."
- ^I'm going to be very honest.
I decided to leave you with this link that gives a quick overview of distinct playing styles. I thought it would be helpful.
Tennis defined by four distinct playing styles
- [quote]"All of the top players today employ the power-baseline style that Jimmy Connors and Lendl pioneered and Agassi perfected. It is the most effective style given the slower playing conditions that are now the norm. This new homogeneity benefits top players like Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic, because their skills easily translate to all the major tournaments. If a top player can perfect the power-baseline game, he can put himself in position to compete at every grand slam and does not need to worry about making wild adjustments depending on the surface. For most of the Open Era, top players struggled with the transition from the clay-court season to the grass-court season because the surfaces were so drastically different and specialist players like grass-court..."
Which makes Don Budge's calendar Grand Slam and Rod Laver's two (T-W-O) calendar Grand Slams a whole lot more impressive (and deserving of the GOAT label) than the (admittedly nonetheless incredibly stellar) achievements of Sampras, Federer, and Nadal.
I put forward two categories:
1) GOAT (up for contention the likes of Tilden, Budge, Laver, Federer, Nadal), and
2) the one that all the arguing is over—GOOE (pronounced "gooey" - i.e. "greatest of open era" - and where the only contenders are Laver, Federer, and Nadal).
The cows aren't coming home any time soon, either.
- R362 I don't know how often you travel internationally for work but most of us who do just can't be 100% all the time. I'm in my mid-30s and compete in triathlons and play handball and feel like I'm in the best shape of my life but when I travel for work sometimes I'm just off.
Serena lost the Australian this year with a sprained ankle. The photo of her swollen ankle explained it all,
As much as Serena is considered to be a cold machine, she wants to win so badly that when she's not perfect, she gets furious at herself and panics. Add that to playing against fearless 20-somethings who are hitting harder than the girls did in the past, and two bad days against Sloane and Sabine, who had no pressure to win, and two slams got away from her.
- I thought we all agreed in 2011 Nadal lost because he was no longer able to shoot up steroids and needed a new drug regimen. Let's face it, his body type doesn't exactly scream "athlete" but "couch potato."
- I lke GOTE (Greatest of their Era) over GOAT (Greatest of All Time). Tennis was very similar until the 1970s. The 1980s changed it forever with the new equipment and focus on conditioning. It seems like it just keeps being taken to another level as the years go by.
Although Laver's accomplishment of two calendar year Grand Slams is amazing, it was done on only two surfaces. To achieve the same feat today is far more difficult. In the 1970s, many top players didn't go to the Australian Open, so who knows how many overall Slams the stars of that day may have had. Some top players didn't play the French Open in the late 70s, too.
All time is hard to say who is the best because the comparison is simply not equal. Greatest of Their Era, though, is an easier comparison to make.
In the current era, notwithstanding his H2H against Nadal and Murray, Fed's overall record is superior. Most Slams, his ridiculous consistency in getting to the later rounds of Slams, his ability to remain injury free throughout the peak of his career, most weeks at #1, etc. Rafa is catching up, though. It will be interesting to see how it all plays out in the next few years.
- Yep, I like the GOTE category. I predict bitter arguments over where one era ends and another begins, and who belongs in which era, and if players overlap different eras...
Still, more interesting than the endless bickering over GOATs, which often ends up being over personal favourites.
- R380, to distinguish between GOAT and GOTE in conversation, should one pronounce the former as one does the animal and the latter as "goatee"?
- [quote]his body type doesn't exactly scream "athlete" but "couch potato".
Have you somehow mistaken Aisha Williams for Rafael Nadal? Otherwise, this comment is completely insane.
- And the argument that Djoker should somehow be lauded as one of the greats because he beat Rafa 7 times in a row 2 years ago is again very silly. I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make.
If you had some slight reading comprehension, r374, you would have noticed that I never said Djoker was one of the all time greats. I'm just highlighting the fact that the only statistics you seem to consider are the ones that benefit Nadal. Why? Because you are an obsessive troll. I really don't begrudge you having an affinity for Nadal but you have hijacked this thread with exhaustive rambling and gushing like you're a paid member of his fanclub. Then you argue to no end with anyone who does not see Nadal with the same halo that you do. That, by definition, makes you a troll. Get a life, or better yet, get a blog. Your opinion of Nadal's all time greatness is subjective, despite your attempts to make it sound like some proven science. I'm sure Nadal has many great wins ahead of him but can you give it a fucking rest?! And regarding the technicality of style of play, of course Nadal is always going to be a baseline player. That much is given. But his tactics and level of aggression do change dependent on the surface of play. You are the one who is arguing for the sake of arguing.
- It's ok r382, r378 is one of those dimwits who doesn't know anything about the physical realities of tennis. Only morons make the kinds of claims he does.
- R383= I'm rambling because I'm so angry that you made me look like a complete idiot who doesn't even know what style of play means. Just because I said that anyone who thinks Nadal with his 8 French Opens is GOAT material is biased, doesn't mean that I think his 8 French Opens means he isn't GOAT material ( especially after you mentioned the stats about that Samprini guy)! I really don't know what I'm saying, I just type away. And and and Djoker beat Nadal 7 times 2 years ago doesn't that mean something? I don't know what, but it means something I think. You should know what I think it might mean I think!
I can't believe that you would ONLY list statistics that benefit Nadal in response to my post about Nadal! Why not list statistics that benefit Fabrice Santoro or Ivo Karlovic or everybody in the ATP? Why Nadal of all people? I mean who was talking about Nadal? How dare you post about Nadal when everyone else is posting about Nadal! You're clearly biased! How can you not realize that Nadal drastically changes his style of play from surface to surface? I mean he actually stands back so far on clay and takes the ball sooooooo early on hards! That's a huge style of play change lol.
I knew that you would come back and make yourself look like a bigger idiot ( your type always does). I couldn't care less if you like Nadal or not. I do and that's what matters.It's funny that my two posts to you is somehow arguing to death. Nadal is definitely my favorite but he's one of many players I enjoy. I simply told you that you were wrong and proved in both posts, and now you're throwing a temper tantrum. You simply can't handle a tennis debate because you don't know enough about tennis so you break down and start whining or make personal attacks. You couldn't handle a real tennis forum.
When I said that Nadal uses the same game to beat Djoker on hards that he does on clay, I guarantee you that every REAL ( you know the ones who know the difference between style of play and tactical changes) tennis fan in this thread knew exactly what I was referring to. It's kind of hard for actual tennis fans not to notice today's dominant style of play. My posts and source explain the reasons for this very well.
You're just some guy who watched tennis once or twice who thinks Djoker is Hawt. You know nothing at all about the game and it's embarrassing. I do think it's sweet that you're so desperate to prove yourself to me, though. It's always the ones like you who don't know a damn thing about a damn thing who have these huge egos that are easily bruised, so you keep coming back posting more and more nonsense when you should have called it a day 2 posts ago.
You don't know the game well. There's no shame in that. It takes time to learn it. The problem is that you act like you know way more than you do and talk down to people when you don't even know the basics. Not only are you not familiar with the basics of the game, but you have very poor logic. You say that I'm inconsistent because I don't weigh Djoker's head to head with Nadal the same way I do Nadal v Federer. But it's illogical to weigh them equally or even similarly. You claim I'm biased for entering Nadal's name into the GOAT discussions, but Nadal's record is exceptional. Simply having 13 majors will get people talking. That's not an example of bias. You just have very poor logic on top of everything else. You're just comedy relief at this point. Stop punishing yourself ( be good to yourself) and move on. We aren't equally matched as far as knowledge of the game is concerned which makes this exchange pretty boring. But I'm sure your ego will bring you back for more punishment. So I'll let you have the last word. I would say that you need it more than I do but your posts aren't really helping your case.
I think this book could help you with learning the game.
- r385, you are obnoxious and offensive with your "you are an ignorant troll" replies to anyone who doesn't toe your line or share your opinions.
Where exactly do you get off snidely insulting someone by posting a link to "Tennis for Dummies" because they're not a member of the Rafa veneration cult?
You are so up yourself I'd be surprised if anyone ever wanted to have a *real* discussion with you - you know, the sort where people actually discuss things, as opposed to just being schooled by you and your superior intellect.
- R386, Rafael Nadal is world no. 2, he has also been world no. 1. He has just won the US Open, earlier this year he won the French Open. He has 13 grand slams in total and a whole host of other tournaments. He is playing in an era when one of the greatest players ever has dominated the game, and he has more than held his own up to him. Watching him play, one is amazed at his shots, his inventiveness, the balls he can get in, his determination to get that ball.
I'm not sure what your point is exactly but if you are trying to claim that Nadal is not a great player, then you really don't have a clue. If you are also one of those fringe idiots who claims that his success is due to doping then you are seriously stupid.
You don't have to love Nadal and don't even have to like him, but to claim that he's not an astonishingly brilliant tennis player is simply wrong.
- r387 - I'm r386, and I suspect you think I might be r383 or someone else in this discussion, but I'm not... I'm just someone who took offence at r385 's preferred "I know everything there is to know about tennis and you know squat" method of conducting the discussion.
As for GOAT discussions, in general I'm not one to entertain them (or at least only to show that there really is no way to establish a GOAT) - I've been around the (tennis) block long enough to know that in every single tennis generation there are those who are convinced that the player they've become enamoured of is the GOAT of all GOATs, and will wheel out endless statistics to "prove" the point, which will be countered with endless minutiae trotted out by cultists belonging to another, opposing sect—and all this will lead to the inevitable bouts of mini guerrilla strikes aimed personally at the opposing team to prove not that they're wrong but to assert that they have no title to claim anything at all in any discussion on tennis matters of any sort (viz. r385 and his supercilious snideness).
As far as Nadal goes, and in reference to your assumption that I'm "trying to claim that Nadal is not a great player" (but maybe you have me confused with someone else), I've spent endless numbers of hours fascinated, completely enthralled by his on-court presence, his unbelievable magnetism, his apparently endless stores of strength, resilience, and mind-boggling doggedness (and I've seen all this at play both in matches where he's won and matches where he's lost), and, why not?, his maniacal attention to apparently spurious detail (bottles placed just so, lines never trodden on, the hair swept behind the ears and the nose touched so many times before serving or while receiving...). I've thought and claimed many things about Nadal (even wondering where all this comes from...), but I've never once even entertained the thought that he's not a great, great, great tennis player.
- R388, you're right, I am a bit confused as many of the previous posts have been very confusing, it's hard to follow exactly what the points being made are.
- R387, I think the point someone's trying to make is that Rafa's the GOAT, above and beyond all others (including Serena Williams, I think?), and if anyone disagrees they're stupid and ignorant of all things tennis, unlike His Erudite Tennis Highness.