Why do many lesbians reject their femininity?

So you think everyone should pretend to be something they don't want to be, just to conform to your standards?

Maybe they're just being themselves?

They don't owe you shit, OP.

They usually have cool clothes, the mechanic types

Maybe they don't want to accidentally attract cretins like you, OP.

They want to be heterosexual men. They are ashamed to love women as women.

Okay, if you're in LA... you don't have the right to complain. It's 10000 x worse throughout the midwest. Where the butch/femme scene is very much alive. You. Can't. Complain. Now go to the Abbey and count your blessings.

r6, nails it. r7, yeah I should be grateful!! I loathe the butch/femme dynamic

You mean the ones that look like this Op?

lol r9 now that is what every gay woman should be attracted to right?

I bet they get laid more than you do.

Frankly OP this is the kind of shit i have to hear from freeps and Rush Limbaugh Dittoheads.

R8, how about minding your own business. Do you also get this vocal about your dislike of men and gay sex? If it isn't going in your pussy, why are you being so judgemental? Nobody cares.

What is femminity OP? High heels & red lipstick? I'd say its a freely expressed personality & sexuality with XX chromosomes

I don't know why so many lesbians want to look like ugly young men, but hey, each to their own. I think that some of them are closet misogynists.

I bet OP is a flaming nelly queen who runs away in tears when people castigate him for being as much.

r16- you must be one of those lesbians trying desperately to be masculine? You yourself are homophobic.

Troll away!

And I thought dudes were only hung up on masculinity versus femininity.

Is it something like this, OP?

[quote] Especially when they are of the stud variety who come on to ladies like 14 yr old boys! No class, no decorum. THEY SCARE ME!!

There's a subset like this. I was seated at a bar talking with a friend and I felt someone light kicking at the base of the stool. I ignored it at first and it continued. I looked back and a woman dressed very much like a 14 yr. old was doing it. I said something like "oh, sorry, do you need more room?" moved the stool forward and continued talking with my friend. I didn't have a clue it was a sign of interest until my friend told me. Seriously? It's like pigtail pulling in the third grade.

r21, sorry for that experience. I think we femmes need to shun them completely

r16, bulldyke!

"They want to be heterosexual men."

No, they want heterosexual men to stay away.

r24, if they hate men so much, why dress and act like them?

Many butches seem like they are misogynistic

r14, it's not acting like a man!!

The misogynists are the ones who think all women should be required to look and behave a certain way so as not to offend their delicate sensibilities. OP, you sound like a narcissist to the extreme.

No, I am a woman who loves being a woman. from dress to mannerisms, and I am attracted to ONLY straight acting and looking laDIES

R25, they don't hate men, you insecure idiot. They're indifferent. If that means 'hate' to you, you need therapy.

Is this about male privilege? And why are you queens so obsessed with this?

They aren't going to change for you any more than you would be willing to go butch. The sooner you accept that and get over it, the better.

Too often, the gay community seeks to copy the heterosexual model of sexual and social practice. I believe the sexual norms within mainstream gay culture betray the true bond between two women -a bond that often goes beyond what is displayed publicly for fear of shame and misunderstanding.

r30 is male wanabe dyke!!! GROSS

We do not reject our femininity. We reject the objectivity.

Some of these ladies do appear to desire to co-opt misogynist straight male though. I know we all want to be kumbaya and accepting but there is a difference between truly butch women who are more comfortable in male clothing/style and the wannabees that OP is talking about. The straight guy wannabees truly think they have a cock. They want their women to be their possession and behave as some stereotypical guy from the 1950's. Those are the one's who are truly ridiculous b/c they are in DRAG. Meaning, they aren't behaving as who they truly are, they are taking on a FAKE role and that's why they come across as fake and annoying to some women.

My best friend has always dated butches but her girlfriends have all been very cool, fun loving honest women. Even they comment on the fake wannabees who try to be all master male b.s. Even the butches pick up on those fakes.

This is what I am talking about!! Thank God for the younger generation

r34, oh the irony! Yet bulldykes objectify feminine women in the bars constantly!!!! Hey, most gay women are attracted to WOMEN!!!, not some insecure male fearing dyke!!!

lesbians who conform to old stereotypes tend to be of the lower classes. Is this true for fag homos as well?

R33, F&F.

r38, word

I don't know if it's a rejection of their femininity as much as it is an embracing of their masculine side. I am in between butch and lipstick and I envy the butches in that they seem to have much more confidence in approaching women whereas the lipstick lesbians are way too shy about it. I'm on an online dating site and 99% of the women who contact me are butches, even though I've stated in my profile I am not attracted to butch women. My friends who are butch, however never seem to be lacking from attention from lipstick lesbians. It's very strange and frustrating. However, if you ever talk to a butch, you come to realize pretty quickly that they are all bravado on the outside and are VERY insecure on the inside.

But I don't get it either. I am attracted to women who look like women.

I'm a lesbian. Most people say I am not obviously gay. I guess that means I don't have gay face. I feel like a feminine woman but put me next to some of my girlfriends and I look downright butch. I am glad I don't feel the need to squeeze my feet into narrow six inch heels. I don't squeal over a pair of Jimmy Choo shoes or whatever and I'm fine with that. I'm glad I am comfortable in a simple blouse and pants. I wear lipstick on occasion but am not afraid to leave the house without makeup.

I don't wear men's clothes but I understand the appeal of them. They are comfortable, stylish and affordable. Go to any department store and just compare the men's and women's departments. Why do I, a woman, have to wear a fucking shirt with a three-quarter inch sleeve? Why is that better for women than a regular short sleeve? Not long ago, I could buy women's shirts with normal sleeves. I want a regular shirt, dammit. Every season, there are a million various styles that women are expected to adopt. Men have a pair of pants, a shirt and some shoes.

And let's not even get into the way clothes are sized. I bought three pair of pants today, each of them different brands and different sizes. Something tells me men don't encounter these issues.

I am thankful that our community consists of women who don't look alike, who are comfortable pursuing their own style choices and aren't ashamed to be individuals. Maybe one day, some of you will learn not to be so judgmental.

R40, what's the problem? bulldykes is okay and fags isn't?

" My friends who are butch, however never seem to be lacking from attention from lipstick lesbians. It's very strange and frustrating. However, if you ever talk to a butch, you come to realize pretty quickly that they are all bravado on the outside and are VERY insecure on the inside."

EVERY lipstick i KNOW is repulsed by butches! I believe they are VERY insecure and probably post on anonymous boards how much feminine clit they get!!!

Until the lesbian community rejects the butch/ femme paring, MOST lesbians will remain in closet

I truly believe that most butch lesbians had horrible mothers who were cold and did not bond with. This is why they reject and HATE anything female

And I should add, it's ok if you aren't attracted to butch women (or femmes). But you don't have to hate on them and diss them for the choices they make. Like you, they are entitled to express their personalities through their clothing, hair, etc.

Have you ever noticed how the world treats women who cannot help the fact that they have masculine features? The world is really nasty to people who don't, or can't, conform.

Not everyone is born looking like Cindy Crawford. Most people try to make the most out of what they've got. And I applaud them for that. I wish more lesbians and gay men embraced and supported people in their community. It's hard to be gay in this world. Let's not be against each other.

Is the CK1 era Jenny Shimuzu considered butch? Because she is hot

The world also treats women who don't 'fit' the norm for that particular culture in shitty ways too, so it ain't just about being masculine.

In SOME parts of the US fat girls get crapped on, older women are seen as undesireable, women of color don't get play or aren't seen as attractive (happens in the lesbian community), being a woman who doesn't want kids, yada yada and the list goes on. Folks are just uptight about people who don't fit certain expectations. Men have the same hassle. Tis life.

bump

r47, it's about SEXUAL attraction! Being gay means being attracted to the same sex!!!

There is nothing more feminine or beautiful then two women discovery their female bodies together

You asked why - probably for the same reasons they like women - there's probably something biological and genetic behind it. Gay men have the same problem except reversed.

r53, the prime example of what is wrong in gay community

r53, so being gay has to do with wanting to be the opposite sex? Gotcha!

The new femme on femme ideal arrived with the popularity of straight pornography. I can understand why a broad wouldn't want to have to get all dolled up just to get laid by another chick. All that teased hair, heavy makeup and wearing heels to bed just to share a dildo seems like a major hassle. I think it's fascinating that some lesbians have bought into the straight male ideal of what they should look like as sex objects.

r56, the epitome of UGLY and MAsculine DYKE!!

r56, most women gay or straight love to impress and dress for that success with other women.

I was watching 'Windows' this morning starring Talia Shire and Elizabeth Ashley. In 1980 femme lesbians were portrayed as psychopaths. But then again Talia was flat chested with a pageboy hairdo and she got the guy in the end. Perhaps 'Windows' is why some people question the validity of lipstick lesbian pairings. That and the fact that lipstick lesbians tend to dump their mates almost as often as their alleged orientation. This is what wisdom I have gleaned from People magazine and the movie 'Windows'.

It's very frustrating as feminine straight woman who is attracted to men to see lesbians in bars. Yes, I live in L.A. so they are the minority, but still they ruin the vibe. THEY SCARE ME!!

R56 is most likely a guy.

What if they don't really have any? Better to just butch out, but with mega style

r60m NOT IN THE LEAST!!!

R55/R57, why don't you go fuck off to LChat. You'd love it there. You sound like you're trolling.

r64, you sound like an angry emasculated dyke!!!

LOL @ R56

"Broad"

"Dolled up"

"Teased hair"

Welcome, time traveler from 1950.

I totally agree with R56

The younger set are striving toward a porn-influenced idea of what "feminity" is - it is actually a (lower) class give-away as much as the extreme butch look.

I think women can look attractive in a range of looks. I don't get worked up about it.

I actually like the androgynous look the best.

r57, asexual!!!

r66 is awesome

You know who is really awesome?

r8. Who is also r10, 22, 23, 25 26, 27, 29, 32, 33, 36, 37, 40, 44, 45, 46, 50, 51, 52, 54, 55, 57, 58, 63, 65.

r70 rocks the universe!!!

R70, I am proud of my posts

I want r41's phone number.

BECAUSE OF DADDY

OP, butch lesbians don't reject their femininity. They are just naturally masculine in the same way lesbians(butch or femme) are simply not attracted to men. Why do you think these women are simply faking a masculine persona.

protection---they want to repeal men

It's sexually AMBIGUOUS, OP. Not "ambivalent." Learn the difference.

r77=angry lesbian

No, gay man with a basic education.

Well, everyone else has been too polite to say it, but I'm in a mood and don't give a fuck:

OP, you are an ugly, ignorant, worthless twat.

You are stupid, idiotic, clueless, retarded, AND dumb, which is truly an amazing feat for one as dim-witted as you.

You are pathetically ignorant, and utterly lacking in empathy or consideration for anyone else's feelings or value system.

In short, you are a rancid fucking cunt and I hope you die in a fire while eating a bag of dicks that are vomiting pus-filled acid into your eyesockets.

Cheers!

r80=angry British lesbian

I SCREAM WITH ANGRY POWER AT THE RAPE OF MY BOUNDARY!!!!!!!!!!

OP IS A PENISED-PERSON PENNING MISOGYNIST MOLOTOVS OF RATFEM HATE!!!!!!

PENIS-IN-VAGINA (PIV)-CENTRIC WOMYN APPEARANCES ONLY SUPPORT MALE POWER AND FEMICIDE!!!!!!!!!

I SEIZE AT THE ROOT THE VERY FOLLICLES OF THE PATRIARCHY!!!!

HAIRY MUSCLED SISTER ARMS SIGNAL OUR MIGHT!

THICK SHAGGY LEGS STOMP TO THE FIGHT!

O' TUFTED KNUCKLES!!! O' FURRED BACKS!!!

O' WOMYN BRISTLES WAVING LIKE SHEAVES OF WHEAT IN THE WINDS OF CHANGE!!!!

THESE ARE EVERY WARRIOR WOMYN'S RIGHT!!!!!!!!

What the hell R82?!

"feminine gay woman" Aren't all women feminine, except the ones who take steroids wanting to transition from female to male? I'm old fashioned and like clear gender roles. If you're a woman, gay or straight, leave the sports jacket and corduroys at home, please. If you hate your gender, opt for a sex change, than you.

I like the angry British lesbian!

r84, word!

r80, get the sex change op already!!

OP, the lesbians who reject femininity are rejecting societal norms for how society thinks women should look which entails certain restrictions that are imposed on the looks of women.

They also reject their feminity because they identify more strongly with men than women.

Fran Lebowitz is hot, actually

r88, if that is the case, why do they hate men? also, if you really want to give a big FU to patriarchy, being a feminine woman who is not attracted to men would be ideal! I do not have men issues thank God.

Just know that dykes who want to say "ha ha men we hate you and want to look and dress like you" are NOT ATTRACTIVE to women who are same sex oriented. I have never heard a young lesbian say "Eww straight girls! give me a mannish dyke any day of the week"

"They also reject their feminity because they identify more strongly with men than women."

Then become men!!

On the lighter side, R42, I recently found out that Jimmy Choo makes some boots that those who don't like heels would be interested in. They might not be feminine enough for our dear OP...

OP here;

I love boots and jeans! I even love to play softball. Many straight girls are the same

Op if you think you have it bad, try living in England where even the straight women look like dykes! BTW Which state has a more femme gay scene? New York?

I would say NYC and California and possibly Chicago.

sadly, r94, feminine dykes hide

r82, lots of caps and exclamation marks in a misandrist posting like that is the hallmark of the late, long-gone poster known as pussylips, not Nan Michiganwomyn.

I thought there were a lot of lesbians that looked like straight women in London.

r97, there are actually! The best place for femmes for femmes is Australia

R82 All they said that medical marijuana doesn't induce paranoia and insanity. Well I guess your post certainly proves otherwise.....

r99, I believe r82 was being facetious. Get a sense of humor lesbo

What is femininity, said Pilate, washing his hands.

Nothing is more threatening to a bulldyke than a feminine woman who does not want a stud!!! Watch the ANGRY MAN come out

Come on bitch, cut these tits OFF!!!

x

A lot of lesbians don't seem to care about hygiene either.

If you're a lesbian, I assume it's because you like women sexually. So why do so many lesbians pretend to be men? They dress like men, walk like men, wear their hair like men, get tattooed like men, act aggressive and stupid like douchebag men. The whole point of being a lesbian is liking WOMEN, not women pretending to be men. That whole "butch" and "femme" thing never made sense to me.

r106, me too

R106, the lesbians you see at bars represent about a third of the whole. That's being generous.

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OP aka LipstickLes(and all your rx posts) you really need to get some help. You are obsessed with butch dykes, why do you give a fuck?

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r112, the OP is obsessed with the topic. She or he is clearly unbalanced.

What R113 said.

I'm a very femme lesbian and so is my best friend and both of us have had relationships with butch, femme, and soft butch women. Femininity is a -spectrum, like masculinity. I have aesthetic preferences, like everyone else, but they're not about behavior in that sense. What a weird topic. The OP sounds like a clueless straight guy trolling.

Isn't anyone else sick of the constant masculine/feminine battles here? It's not just boring, it's kind of embarrassing that gays seem to be obsessed with gender expression, when we should be the most open-minded about it. Who cares, live and let live.

Your sex is a physical fact. Gender, however, is a social construct.

There is nothing about a pink nightgown that is inherently "feminine." There is nothing about a pair of steel-toed boots that is inherently "masculine." These are labels that we in this culture put on things/characteristics.

Most of you are well-traveled enough to know that European men look (for want of a better word) kind of "faggy." I mean, the first time I went to Europe, I thought about half the men were gay. So the idea of "masculine" and "feminine" even varies from culture to culture.

In my home culture, deep in the heart of farm country, most straight women with a passel of children commonly wear no makeup, have short hair and short nails, and have a whole closet full of flannel shirts. They can go out and shoot a buck, dress it, and put it up for the winter. And they're straight, have many children, and go to church with their husbands every Sunday.

I've said this here before, but one of the things that makes me crazy is shopping for a pair of glasses in a shop that has signs that say "WOMEN'S" and "MEN'S." What makes some glasses "men's"? Is there a place for a penis? And is there a bra attached to "women's" glasses? If they fit me and look good on me, they're women's glasses, because a woman bought them.

And as for you "femme lesbians" bitching about "butches," this is self-loathing and homophobia of the worst order. This is you saying, "But I'm a NORMAL lesbian -- I don't look like those BUTCH woman!" I got news for you, sisters: there is no such thing as a "normal" lesbian. And with all the hangups you bitches have, if I had to pick out the closest lesbians to "normal," you snotty butch-hating femmes wouldn't even come close.

And as for you gay men, why do you think that you're the ones who get to judge what is "masculine" and "feminine"? Seems to me you're the wrong people to ask in the first place.

This is Feminism 101, people. I'm sorry you missed out on its beginning (I was there, thank you), but please try to catch up, OK?

W&W for r116. That was one of the best posts I've read on DL.

In the meantime, I need to get off this site. It seems like a lot of posts are written by personality disordered individuals.

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I agree op! I am a gay lady. I am attracted to women, not some mannish dyke

Come on, let's don't trash masculine women. Why we should that? It's like trashing feminine men for what they are. Get used to it. It's not something out of this world. That's how it goes.

r20 there is a lot of trashing of femme boys here.

Femme boys and butch women should get the correction

Femme gals for other femme gals are TRUE lesbians

I have found them to be misandrous. Gay men may have a horror of sex with women but generally lurve women. The former often connects to feminism. The latter are often unaware of their patriarchial attitudes while trying to be fabulous. I don't know which is more tiresome.

I sometimes wonder if maybe there are in fact more transgenders than actual male and female homosexuals.

R116, lots of gay men don't know much about women. They get their info from old movie clothes and porn.

R125, SO TRUE!

Luckily it's slowly changing

[quote]Maybe they're just being themselves?

Maybe they're mentally ill.

Exactly, r129

not all lesbians do

I know r12. I am feminine and so is my gf

I'm not attracted to it but to each their own...

Tried hanging out with a group of butches once and they acted like frat boys. I felt out of place.

Yep! Bulldykes are Neanderthals

The masculine/feminine divide is the biggest chasm and controversy in the LGB community, male and female.

I love you r116!

Yeah because we are tired of gays emulating heterosexual relationships and gays taking on the looks and mannerisms of the opposite sex

R116 is no doubt a MANish dyke!

I adore elder lez. OP is a moron.

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That's because MANY people are self-loathing conformists who buy into the same homophobia and gender panic that you cling to. Not because of any central truth to your lunacy or groundswell of support for your regressive, reactionary social views. MANY people agree with you because MANY people are just as damaged as you.

What's sad is that most of those people are ignorant, straight rubes who don't know any better. That you come to a gay website and spread this garbage as a self-identified gay woman is even more embarrassing and pathetic. For you, of course.

Thankfully, with improving acceptance rates and increased access to mental health services, your side is losing a lot of traction. Maybe one day you'll wake up to that and realize how counterproductive and misplaced your gay-on-gay hate really is.

But I doubt it. You sound really stupid.

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Trolldar is fun on this thread. Go ahead, try it.

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Please never stop posting. You undermine yourself with each new response.

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Bump

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R150, TROLLDAR is not your friend.

Whatever happened to classy, headstrong, iconoclast, timeless lesbians like Kate Hepburn?

There are more truly feminine openly lesbian women than truly masculine openly gay men.

Whatever happened to classy, headstrong, iconoclast, timeless lesbians like Barbara Stanwyck?

My take is based on wondering why so many gay men (more when I was growing up than today) seem to reject their masculinity. I came to the conclusion that when some people realize that their lives are not going to fit the conventional molds that they had expected, they cast about for a new stereotype to adopt, and behave in accordance with that, rather than coming up with whoever it turns out they are.

Because the radicals in the community want you to reject your gender! The number one reason most gays will not come out. They can't relate to the fembots and bulldaggers

g

[quote]If you're a lesbian, I assume it's because you like women sexually. So why do so many lesbians pretend to be men?

To score with women, duh. They are not trying to attract themselves.

What R123 said.

I don't mind a little/some tom boy, but butches are just ridiculous.

If they didn't reject it, they'd be called straight.

R158, if that were the case , I would be straight and find a REAL man ! Got it stud?

Femmes for femmes

R160, so you equate being gay with emulating the opposite sex? So we are all just latent trannys huh?

Let me guess, you are butch right?

Butchy femme is my favorite type of woman.

I like classy ladies, not some lowlife man wannabe

Sure, R165. Now let me guess, you're male, right?

Lol no feminine gay woman who prefers the same. Are you a bull dagger?

Sure, some lesbians reject femininity, but those who don't are often not believed or thought to be lesbians. We're everywhere.

Men "reject" shit all the time and it isn't considered a thing. When men get fat and sloppy and walk around in diaper-dangling cargo shorts and tube socks with oversized t-shirts, are they considered to have rejected their adulthood and masculinity? That's what it looks like they're doing to me. When 20-year-old hipster dudes wear skinny jeans and grow their hair long, which I think looks attractive, they're not exactly exuding masculinity.

I bet there are as many men, especially young men, who look androgynous or feminine as there are lesbians who look masculine.

R167? Would you like it if I called you a nelly cocksucker?

Just sayin'.

I agree OP. Live and let live and all that, but it is depressing to be surrounded by butches and I won't fake being happy about it.

I tried to force myself to date one, thinking "all cats are grey in the dark, she's still a woman even if she doesn't want to be one". But she had weird hangups even there (I wasn't allowed to please her, I was out of there like a shot).

g

Just be yourself, and try to do the best you can. Believe me, I know that can be hard.

d

I have ZERO attraction to masculine women

R174 Ditto!

Everything said by the gay and lesbian posters trashing androgyny has been said by our straight enemies. These are their exact same ideas. You have the same exact comfort level with gay people as an ignorant straight. Wake up and get your shit together.

OP, I agree. I live in NYC. Come visit, and we'll have a weekend of marathon fucking and drinking and the occasional good meal.

r177, sounds like a plan to me :)

Bump for feminine ladies

Holding hands in public- do you ever get homophobic comments, or do people still not believe you are dating?

Even straight women hold hands

Only if they are Japanese.

Let's do it, r178. First Annual NYC Femme Lesbian Fuckfest. Anyone have Gillian Anderson's contact info?

Had I rejected my femininity, would I be sitting in the U.S. Senate?

Why do so many DL gay men reject masculinity and mainstream manliness?

I'm another feminine lesbian who can't stand butches.

They're disgusting.

There's an old myth out there that ONLY a butch-femme female couple "works", yet I see butch-butch pairings out there; femme-femme ones are harder for me to identify as specifically gay.

I love jokes and love all kinds of humor, but the anti-women/anti-lesbian trolling here really didn't need to be bumped.

R187

I don't know why that myth exists because it's not true. Quite the opposite actually.

Most butch/femme pairings I've seen consist of one gender confused butch who is always afraid that her femme partner will leave her for a man, and one femme with low self esteem who used to be straight but is now tired of men and thinks a butch is the solution to her problems.

It usually ends with the femme going back to straightville.

Butch/femme couples are also much more common among the lower class.

As a gay man, I find this thread fascinating and somewhat depressing. I don't really get it. If you don't like a butches, don't fuck them. Why do you have to feel such a repulsion toward them? This dynamic is too similar to all the gay men who feel disgust toward male fems. Great, they don't attract you sexually, but why have such a visceral negative reaction? What is really behind that?

I've known some super butch dykes and some really fem fags who were some of the kindest people in the world. I didn't need to have sex with them to appreciate them as human beings.

So many straight people seem to be feeling more comfortable with masculine/feminine these days!

wow

Why is it that after so many women come out, they suddenly morph into dude-looking she-males?

Because women naturally look like dude looking shemales R192.

Femininity is an illusion created by makeup, hair dye and jewelry.

It's one thing to be butch like Rachel Maddow, for example, no makeup, pants and a short haircut. She looks like herself and that's what makes her cute.

It's quite different to essentially be wearing a disguise, binder flattening the breasts, all signs of femininity disguised. If you have a feminine figure, own it. The man in drag look, as opposed to just being comfortable, seems like insecurity. If you're trying to attract a woman that is attracted to women, why not look like a woman? I don't mean like a fashion model, just a woman. If they wanted a man they wouldn't be a lesbian.

Rachel Maddow still wears makeup on television which makes her face look more feminine. Without makeup, she looks like a guy.

Let's ban all makeup hair dye and jewelry and see what women really look like. The truth is women look much more like men than we think.

Maddow has been seen many times off her show without makeup. She doesn't wear makeup or suit jackets at home.

Everyone wears makeup on television, even straight men. It's part of working on television.

I don't see Ellen or Maddow as 'butch', myself. They are more androgynous to me. Butch is my former line manager, who had a buzz cut, wore schlub clothes (dad jeans belted high, with some unfashionable sneakers) , was overweight, didn't wear a bra, and sat in meetings with her legs wide open, like an Alpha male watching the ball game.

[quote] and sat in meetings with her legs wide open

I get the feeling that each and every time she did that, you slowly and unceremoniously fainted.

No, R198, I maintained steady eye contact and signalled loud and clear that her Big Swinging Dick routine cut no mustard with me. Some of my other colleagues were scared to death of her, however.

Have fun dear lesbos...

Is there more to this story, r197? I don't see how a woman sitting with her legs open is some kind of power play any more than a man who crosses his legs is a sign that he gags on kielbasas.

All there is to the story, R201, is that the former line manager was a radical feminist and uber butch and a bully, whose primary motivation in working relationships was to establish her dominance. If the other person did not bow down, she would use intimidation tactics such as domineering body language, shouting, freezing people out.

She was a typical insecure butch dyke. That is all.

do they, dude?

I agree OP!!

bump for feminine ladies

[quote] Why do many lesbians reject their femininity?

For the same reason gays do the Princess Diana scream.

r206, sad isn't it?

CUZ MANY DYKES ARE SICK

I don't care either way but I once worked a job where I had to greet dozens of people and give them a welcome pack. On more than one occasion I encountered a really butch woman and I said 'Sir' accidentally and I never knew how to cover so I just mumbled sorry and scurried. Those women looked so masculine though that it confused me as a teen gay boy because I was sometimes attracted to the way they carried themselves. My sister never wears make-up actually, she's petite and has long hair and she will wear nice fitted clothing but no make-up. She says it's too much bother. I thick if I was a woman putting on the face and fixing it up throughout the day would get old fast.

Lesbian feminity is opposite from straight "feminity", period. Straight feminity is all about artefacts, make up, certain clothes and a certain way of acting and conveying "sexiness". That demeaning show of turning yourself into a brainless sex object. All of that is opposite from what lesbians like and search for in other women, and want to project for themselves. Lesbians like natural feminity, and since there's unfortunately no word for it people like OP see them as being "devoid" of the only type of feminity he knows, aka the manufactured one. Lesbians reject that straight version of feminity because it's a bloody misogynistic turn off. It's really not that complicated.

Lesbian feminity is opposite from straight "feminity", period. Straight feminity is all about artefacts, make up, certain clothes and a certain way of acting and conveying "sexiness". That demeaning show of turning yourself into a brainless sex object. All of that is opposite from what lesbians like and search for in other women, and want to project for themselves. Lesbians like natural feminity, and since there's unfortunately no word for it people like OP see them as being "devoid" of the only type of feminity he knows, aka the manufactured one. Lesbians reject that straight version of feminity because it's a bloody misogynistic turn off. It's really not that complicated.

Sorry for the double post, beta DL hiccup.

r211, BS! more and more young gay WOMEN are rejecting the anti male and ironically ultimately anti female. I do not have to dress and act like a man to beat patariarchy

" Lesbians reject that straight version of feminity because it's a bloody misogynistic turn off. It's really not that complicated. "

By emulating men? also, are you attracted to women or men with vaginas?

But who the hell asked you to "dress and act like a man" r213? Is that the only alternative in your universe ? Further proof that you have no idea on how to exist as a woman outside of the dolled up vogue magazine version of "feminity".

"Emulating men" you say r214. I pity you.

How about dressing and acting exactly as you are? A WOMAN.

r215 is roaring and stating her boundaries. You will be perpetually pissed off at the world with your man hatred. I bet you are one ugly bulldyke

The only pissed off and hateful person is you, r216. I pity your self-loathing miserable life. Keep on applying that make up and wearing those whore skirts... and being eternally single :)

LOL I walk into girlbar and it's like Glinda the witch descending upon munchinland :)

so I should look like Sally Kohn or Rachel MANdow? LMAO. yEAH baby dykes just love those types (sarc)

It's very telling that you envision me as a man hating "ugly bulldyke". You seem to have absolutely zero concept of what being a woman is outside of the hetero standard. "If you don't apply make up and wear dresses you must hate men!!!!!!!!!" Again, I pity you.

so you don't find straight women attractive ?

Women can dress anyway they please, or they should be allowed to--we aren't under Sharia law YET.

When lesbians call out other women who like to dress up in heels and short skirts they are as BAD as sexist men, and probably look like dumpy men as well.

What I dislike is the overall refusal to look clean and someone kept up.

I have a sister who fought through serious illness and during that time she dressed slovenly. But that was because she felt like shit, was worried about going bankrupt with medical bills, and got fat on medication. She also had bad b.o. due to the meds.

However, when my sister was healthy she took time to look clean and wear clean clothes, wear a pretty blouse, etc..

what I don't understand is how so many women put down other women so much over clothing choices.

The slovenly ones could be sickly and not want your attention anyway, and the cute, stylish ones could be fighting their way out of a depression.

Either way, leave each other alone, bitches.

even butches want a femme

r222, thank you!

bump

I think it's quite telling when people say an unfeminine woman is "emulating men." How so? By not wearing makeup, tight clothes, heels, and walking with a sashay? The fact that that's considered "acting like a man" is a problem. What most people call "feminine" is based on artifice and illusion. Period. Being unfeminine doesn't (and shouldn't) automatically make a woman "masculine" or an androphile.

Also, people need to stop buying into the bullshit notion that women dress for other women. What a load of crap. Really? Women put on makeup, get their hair and nails done, squeeze into tight clothes, and put on high heels...to impress other women? How does that even make sense?

[quote]When lesbians call out other women who like to dress up in heels and short skirts they are as BAD as sexist men

Most straight women are whores looking to get freebies and attention by becoming artificial and fake. They are also hypocrites. They'll chide short men (while they wear heels to look taller), make fun of a guy with hair plugs (while they wear extensions and spend copious amounts of money on their hair), mock guys who spend too much time at the gym (because they're too lazy and would rather wear spandex and go on fad diets). Most straight women want a "real man", yet are "fake women". At least the lesbians keep it real.

"Most straight women are whores..."

And there's the freeper troll, straight out of GOP scrum meeting no doubt.

228 = bleeding gums

r228 a raging bulldyke too ugly to get anyone

r227 as a femme who likes the same, I dress for the ladies and many of my straight female friends also do

eww feminine ladies! give me a mannish flannel wearing dyke anyday

R232, that's strange to me. Gay women I can understand, but I don't know why a straight woman would bother dressing for people she doesn't know and isn't going to have sex with. What's the payoff for them?

uh looking pretty and feminine

"What's the payoff for them?"

There isn't one. Straight women dress for men and don't want to endure other straight women's judgment and sneering if they don't make the necessary efforts to compete. Period.

R21 the same thing happened to me twice. It's the lesbian version of the bathroom stall tap tap tap. I didn't have a clue I was being hit on. I was polite and said "oh excuse me do you need more space". The last time this happened my friend laughed and explained what was going on. All I can say is WTH?

Another observation, why do the masculine girls hate purses? They act like they are guys but I have yet to meet a guy who hates on purses as much as the butch lesbians.

MOST WOMEN want to feel and look girly! shut up you mannish ugly dyke~

I'm a straight female with no attraction to women and I dress very simply. No makeup or jewelry, just a nice watch and wedding band. Simple haircut, slacks, shirts and flat shoes. I own 2 pair of heels but they aren't comfortable. I have one dress I like (silk satin Max Azaira in emerald green - sigh.) Yeah, I wear heels with that, the one time in a million years I felt like wearing a dress.

I'm petite and slender and I suppose my look is androgynous. I applaud my friends who love to dress up, but it isn't me at all. Nail polish makes me itch. I own makeup but just can't be bothered.

Clothes don't make the woman.

Lesbians creep me the fuck out. Sorry but they just do. Maybe we can send them all to the other side of the world?

"I don't know why a straight woman would bother dressing for people she doesn't know and isn't going to have sex with."

Because men are easy to find to have sex with. Very little effort or flashy clothes required.

Sorry, DL gays.

The things that people do to avoid judgment and outsider status...

r240, they are more accepted than gay men

R243, I said they creep me out and should be sent away. That stands whether or not your comment is true or false. Lesbians are creepy. That's just the truth.

As a very, very feminine gay woman, I've wondered the same. Diesel dykes are friends of mine, but they'd never get into my bedroom.

Then again, I wonder why a lot of gay guys reject their masculinity. The swishy prancing and preening with all the ridiculous affectations.

A lot of us embrace femininity, taste, and sophistication. Sounds like you're too busy projecting your insecurities onto others to see it.

Also, straight women don't dress for men. They dress for other straight women.

Straight men will screw mud. They don't care what a woman's face looks like, or what she's adorned with.

[quote]make fun of a guy with hair plugs

To be fair, I've never seen a man with hair plugs that didn't look ridiculous.

Femininity is beautiful because it is rare, the world is about rage, aggression, grime, rudeness, violence, and competition.

Femininity is the tiny flower fighting its way out of the crack in the sidewalk on a dirty, busy street.

this is why men want to be women now, because they want to preserve rare beauty.

And pretty, sweet things are the underdogs in life.

[quote]Women put on makeup, get their hair and nails done, squeeze into tight clothes, and put on high heels...to impress other women? How does that even make sense?

[quote]Gay women I can understand, but I don't know why a straight woman would bother dressing for people she doesn't know and isn't going to have sex with. What's the payoff for them?

People don't only dress up just when they have sex. What kind of stupid statement is that?

Dressing up is a status symbol, same thing as what car one drives and where your house is located. Women dress to impress and eclipse other women around all in the name of competition.

Straight men wouldn't know the difference between Gucci and Versace, only other women who vie for good material things will know what she and she's wearing. Forget lesbians. That's why straight women dress for other women.

But a lot of women also love looking at other women without the impulse of fucking them.

If you're an adult person and haven't figured that out yet then you've lived a very sheltered life.

[quote]Because men are easy to find to have sex with. Very little effort or flashy clothes required.

For many straight men a hole is a hole

[quote]To be fair, I've never seen a man with hair plugs that didn't look ridiculous.

True, but it's the same for most of the women that wear those ratty extensions and weaves. Not talking about the celebs that can afford high price hair help, but the everyday women. I can always tell. And hate to say it, but black women always have the worst and most silly looking weaves.

Yes, R249, I get that people do it for status/competition, but that doesn't make it any less stupid. Status symbol or not, it's stupid to put in all that effort for so-called "status" from people you're not interested in fucking, befriending, or running in the same social circles with. At least a luxury car or a nice house provides the owner with value. But dolling up just to one-up other women? Yeah, maybe in high school.

"Also, straight women don't dress for men. They dress for other straight women.

Straight men will screw mud. They don't care what a woman's face looks like, or what she's adorned with."

Bullshit straight out of a gay mans mouth. Caftan too tight, honey?

Show up with a grossly obese old lady, no teeth and stinking like pig shit. Have your average woman by her side, teeth intact. The man will screw which one first, given a preference?

Het women are EXACTLY the same. So are gay men and women, so get over your freeper tendencies or take them to a shrink. You'll at least get out of your house and away from all those 1950's B flicks you won't stop day dreaming in.

Precisely, R253. It's also clear a lot of women bullshit themselves about why they dress the way they do...

r253 bulldyke

All post-menopausal women look like dykes to me.

A lot of the Mexican ones do by the age of thirty-five, they even have swagger.

You know who actually still looks good after fifty?

Actual lesbians!

Women have always scared me. My mother, sister, cousins, you name them. I could never understand why lesbians want to look like us.

I mean if I was a lesbian and loved women I would want a really pretty one.

Just like I have a very handsome BF/partner. (says me).

Today's MTF's are like yesterday's Rembrandt's and Di Vincis.

These are men trying to preserve real beauty in this world, and they are sacrificing their own bodies to do so.

They are artists, classical artists, living in a post-modern scrambled soup of disruption.

I wish DANA Delany would come out!!! it would be such a boost for femmes in closet

Because I'm a MAN, OP! A man trapped in a woman's body!

if you are masculine gay man, or feminine gay lady, you hide!

[quote]Show up with a grossly obese old lady, no teeth and stinking like pig shit. Have your average woman by her side, teeth intact. The man will screw which one first, given a preference?

The man will screw the one who agrees to have sex with him.

R253, not only are you homophobic but clueless and sexist about women too

LOL, gotcha 262, you stupid fuckstick! I knew you'd leap for it.

God damn you're dumb. I told you that earlier but you think stalking my every thread means your dull, average insights wouldn't be noticed? LOL Man, I wouldn't trade my worst day for your best year, ten times over. The total and complete soul-sucking banality that must plague you day in and day out. I'd feel sorry for you if you were funny once in a while, but you're just a boring, old man. Like I told you sweet pea, I laugh while I watch you stumble in the dark ;) I'd encourage you to keep trying, but that would be cruel because you'd just fall down again. Better fun to see you tottering sideways, thinking you're going somewhere LOL

R263 = insane

R264 = nurr hurr hurrr...nur hurr hurr...Sorry bubbles, that's all I hear when you write. Sucks to be caught, doesn't it? ROFL!!!

Is it lesbionic though? Plenty of straight married women in my area get a no-nonsense haircut and wear sensible shoes (Nike trainers) with their c. 1992 relaxed cut jeans and L.L. Bean cotton turtlenecks. The full transformation is completed around menopause, I've noticed. Yes, they drive Subarus or minivans. Many women just stop giving a shit or never did. They care about work and getting shit done, not realizing or caring that appearances affect how much respect others give you.

Other women enjoy the makeup and hair primping. Is it about men? I don't know.

True R266. I think a lot of women stop giving a fuck, especially after a certain age. You realize all that time spent fretting over your appearance wasn't really worth it.

Define femininity.

uh looking like a woman, not a man

R263, 265 etc., Trolldar is not your friend.

R264 totally!

I don't know R245, but your post sounds like someone that is desperate to accept themselves but they are far from it.

The only post here that makes sense is R220. This thread in general is a car crash; embarrassing and sad. Most of the posters ooze out self-loathing and shame.

Sorry I made a mistake I meant R210

r245 rocks

Sous chef program can be grueling on ones' appearance

I defy any of you to actually answer the question.

So far, all has OP received is a bunch of in fighting and righteous, knee jerk "how DARE you"s.

The question "Why do many lesbians reject their femininity?" implies that they have some "femininity" to reject.

Femininity is not based on clothing. Although in my experience a good cut helps.

This thread is just the type of crazy I need.

Bump.

LOL femmes for femmes

What's so funny about femmes for femmes R281?

nothing at all, just laughing at previous comment

s

Lesbians are gross

bump

bumper

low self esteem.

femme for femmes

They are confused

The people who have been bumping this five-year-old thread for years need to be punched in the neck.

R291,, Is this creature ...

Beware of a certain type of lesbian. They seem to hate life and REALLY hate other women and are the biggest buzz kills ever.

To answer your question succinctly OP, I didn't know that they necessarily did.