Where are young creative artist-type people living these days?
NYC (Manhattan), San Francisco --- SO expensive, TOO expensive these days for the young, quirky, struggling creative types that used to call these artistic meccas home.
My question is where are these young artist types (NOT to be confused with trust-fund hipsters) living these days? Los Angeles seems to have picked up the slack (as it is much less expensive vs. NYC/SF). But where else? Are less-expensive places like Jersey City seeing a migration?
Well, I'm young, struggling, and semi-creative and I live in Mountain View, CA. Still expensive but I only pay $800/month to live in a house with someone else. And I have a full-time job that helps fund everything I make (music and film). I would love to move to LA but there don't seem to be any jobs down there :/
R2 here again: I wonder if a lot of the people that WOULD be in these big cities are now just scattered across the country. I mean, you don't really need to be in a big artistic epicenter to make it (not that I would know from experience but it seems that way), especially with things like music.
Echo Park, L.A., but it's been gentrifying for a while.
They're living everywhere all across the country. People finally learned that you can be a "Creative artist-type" anywhere at any time. Artists have gotten tired of paying outrageous rents in NYC and LA and have moved to cheaper cities across the country.
To expand on R7, surely there are still creative artist-type communities in big cities (and even smaller cities), as some people will always want to have that close connectedness, and there are perks to being in such a community. But, yes, with the internet able to tie people in to a community, not in an equivalent way to actually living near each other, but in at least a substantive and workable way, people really can spread out more and live wherever.
Be very cautious. From what I hear, many of those young, creative artist-types are homosexuals. I'd step lightly if I were you.
Various areas in Texas,
Places NOT to live in NY are: Williamsburg, Bushwick, Greenpoint, Ridgewood, Long Island City and Astoria.
These once reasonably priced areas of Brooklyn and Queens are now grossly overpriced. Most of the rentals are basically renovated railroad flats or larger apartments which have been converted into studios. Of course, unlike when I grew up there, new residents aren't allowed to have washers/dryers.
Basically most of the NY boroughs close to Manhattan have become prohibitive thanks to the trust fund hipsters and Yuppies who have permeated these areas over the past 10-20 years.
If you want to spend most of your income on rent, by all means move to the above listed places. Years ago, the idea was in to get into certain neighbors before gentrification, unfortunately now, so many areas of NY seem to be going through gentrification in the bat of an eye. When you see the NY Times Real Estate section doing cover stories on Ridgewood Queens, you know it's time to look somewhere else.
I grew up in a few of the areas I listed. It's really sad that these crappy old apartments are now going for absurd rents. When my family left Brooklyn in the late 1960s, the rent was $65! My mom still laughs about the area where she grew up, the Lower East Side, now being uber expensive.
With rents so high, I always wonder where the people who keep the city running...cabbies, maids, waiters, waitresses etc live. Perhaps these people are buying low priced homes? Because if you're spending that much on rents, isn't it better to buy something, ay least the place is yours. That's what I did.
I live in Queens now and am totally going to move to Silverlake.
That should have read:"the idea was to get into certain neighborhoods before gentrification", ha!
They have been priced out of existence. They work to survive and have no time to create. They can't afford to move to anywhere fun.
Silverlake is expensive! Los Feliz as well.
Seattle. Portland. Austin.
Montreal, Portland, Colorado, Amsterdam, Lisbon (the last three have legal weed)
The smaller cities are having a renaissance of sorts due to this phenomenon. Minneapolis, Buffalo (no im not kidding) and as someone mentioned, Detroit are all havens for artists right now. Detroit in particular is seeing a massive influx of young creative types. Not only are they the typical writers, musicians, painters, etc - but also radical entrepreneurs who are starting businesses that they never could've dreamed of in places like Brooklyn or SF.
I live in Greenpoint and fucking hate it. So much cunty, entitled consumer privilege. The new subtype here now seems to be inked up white heterosexual male creative directors in advertising who like to barnstorm the streets on their Harleys, exultant in the delusion that they are "rebels." Puke.
Though we could stay we're planning to move further out. I just fear that this radius of assholism is going to keep on expanding and consume everything. I mean, who would've thought 10 years ago that ROCKAWAY BEACH of all fucking places would morph into hipster paradise?
Detroit, it's the latest hipster fad. It's the millennial equivalent of hippies going to live on an ashram in India.
Yes, its Florida but it is an affordable community populated with artists
[quote]Silverlake is expensive! Los Feliz as well.
I'm moving to LA after 19 years in NYC, so I've been looking at apt. ads for Silver Lake and Los Feliz, and the area around Beachwood Dr (my first choice of neighborhood), and these places do not compare in price to hip areas in Manhattan or Brooklyn. Not even close.
I wonder if the "new" NYC, which is now a haven for the privileged, can last. Everything in NY just keeps getting more expensive and exclusive. Can there be a tipping point, a "crash" if you will? Or is NY as a city only for the wealthy going to be a permanent thing? I have no idea how all of this is going to end.
It's sad that NYC is now just a playground for the rich. The only people with "average" incomes that live there now are either people who already grew up in NYC or people who are willing to have roomates. Otherwise, it's all rich people. Even the boroughs outside of Manhattan are ridiculously expensive now.
If in Paris, the 19e, 20e, 18e and 10e + 11e. If a lesbian, definitely the 19e.
[quote]...is NY as a city only for the wealthy going to be a permanent thing?
Yes. What's happening is that there is a split between the big 3-5 global agglomerations - NY, London, Tokyo, Hong Kong - then the next tier of global capitals, after that come the cities that matter more nationally, and then those that matter more regionally. The competition for real estate in London, New York, Hong Kong, Tokyo is recession proof and transnational.
It's strange. Every so often they try to make a new city happen, but it never really catches on.
New Orleans, particularly the Bywater neighborhood. Every other resident now is from Portland or Brooklyn.
Mostly in their mom's basements, OP.
It's also symptomatic of a world population problem--real estate prices continue to shoot up everywhere because there are more and more buyers in the market.
R22, the last time I was in Greenpoint, it was still semi-gritty. A relative's brother-in-law had bought a run down five story building in the late 70s, it was across the street from a housing project.
He did a gut renovation, doing a lot of the work himself. He enlarged rather than reduced the sizes of the apartments, one apartment was made into a duplex. I was shocked how amazing the building looked. He filled it with family and old neighborhood friends.
He was a good guy, the rents were low, only about $300 and $400! He died in the mid 1990's. He sold the building before he died, the stipulation was that his wife would be allowed to stay and keep her store which was on the ground floor. Last I heard she's still there.
This man wasn't a typical landlord, he wanted to keep the long time residents in the area and he did. He was literally one in a million.
Now any rundown area is being scoped out by real estate moguls trying to figure out how they can make even more money, while pushing longtime residents out. It's really disgusting, I cringe every time I open the NY Times Real Estate section.
IMHO, I think a lot of these trust fund hipster assholes will eventually get bored of living in dirty densely populated cites, they will simply move back to their US hometowns or back to their countries.
Most of these hipsters are not native New Yorkers, many are flyovers from the Midwest and the other hipsters are foreigners. As the hipster population ages, their excitement level will certainly no longer be there, their reasons for living in these cities will dwindle and they will leave. I worked with some hipsters who left NYC within five years.
Years ago, certain areas of NYC were clearly defined, the 'cool artistic' people lived in the Village and Soho, the wealthy lived on Park Avenue, and certain areas of Brooklyn such as Brooklyn Heights, now it seems every area of NYC is becoming grossly overpriced.
A few weeks ago I took car service to see a doctor because I was running late, a cab was quicker than three trains. The cab driver and I were talking about how expensive it's become to live here. I almost fainted when he told me he was paying $2,500 for a one bedroom in Astoria. You do have to wonder when this will end.
Portland. I wish they'd GTFO though. Our city is being ruined with talentless hacks and we've lost the vibe our community we had 10/15 years ago.
Yes Im bitter. You would be too.
Aren't all the young artists using the internet to promote their work, if not create it?
All the label-conscious, Apple earbud wearing Milennials who strut about in designer clothers made to look geeky and with knit caps in 90 drgree weather consider themselves this type of person now. How funny, since they're so antithical of this concept.
Totally revamped as a foodie hipster town.
If you've looked at this culture's creative output of late, you might say that there is no breeding ground where new ideas are born anymore.
Asheville, North Carolina
Don't let the right wing politics that has come recently out of Raleigh, the state capital, turn you off, because Raleigh is a different world from this beautiful mountain city with a history of arts and crafts that go back over a century.
They even set aside a section of the city for artist studios and galleries, and that section has attracted some interesting restaurants.
Live music can be found everywhere. It has one of the best bookstores in the USA that constantly does events. The State Theater is a short distance away, an Equity house, and there are two active little theater groups in the city (one with a very nice theater). An Art Deco theater downtown that shows independent and foreign films (with a Gay Film Festival each year). There is a large gay community.
With the Smokey Mountains surrounding the city, it is also one of the best places for its weather -- no earthquakes, too far inland for hurricanes to effect it, too much rain for those out west wildfires.
Yes, people who live here get quite enthusiastic about it.
So it sounds like Oakland and Portland are pretty popular places. I live cross the Bay from it and Oakland is NOT cheap.
R35 is right. They can't make a new city happen without some money from somewhere.
Creative artist-types, do they really even exist?
Name one NOT associated with an existing NYC or LA-based gallery or arts organization.
I know there are MANY who like to think of themselves as such, but in reality in 2013, aren't the majority of those TRULY creative ultimately linking themselves to a major advertising and software firms?
R51 is right. The firebrands of the past locked those corporate sponsors and institutions in their crosshairs and fired away. There was no corporate sponsorship, and if there was, it was a disgrace to be involved with it.
I'm an artist type, I guess, but I'm not young. I lived in the East Village in my twenties, was forced out and moved to Brooklyn in my 30's, and then moved to Northern NY near the Canadian border back to my hometown to take care of my dying mother and have stayed here.
I inherited her house, a Victorian that I fix up with any spare money left over from the outrageous taxes I pay in a college town, but it's still way affordable. I work 34 hours a week at a University and doing outside projects, get paid to ghostwrite for someone in LA, and just inked a songwriting agreement with a band on a major record label, but none of that makes me rich. I had a more lucrative job that I hated, so I quit. I refuse to sell my time in a florescent lit, cubicle ridden, soul crushing, corporate hell dressing, talking, and acting like a robot.
I am lucky to have a home so I can take risks like that, but yes, I pretty much live for my writing, do visual art when I can, just chatted to another artist living in Maine for about 4 hours today on everything from art history to esoteric imagery to politics to Lady Gaga. In my humble opinion, the true artists tend to be not as self aggrandizing and self promoting, they tend to be focused on the work, and that means hours of solitary time spent either creating or filling the well of the brain with ideas through books or sourcing other creative expressions. There are a ton of artisans, creators, crafters, and craftsmen of every stripe and hue where I live, but they are all pretty down to earth and doing it solely for the love of it and not to make money. I don't expect my town to take off because it is too isolated, cold, and seemingly banal to the magpie eyes of hipsters, real estate agents, etc...
Sometimes "real" artists have spouses, children, mortgages, bills, responsibilities, etc. They work regular jobs - even *gasp* corporate jobs.
It is entirely possible for wonderful artists to look like yuppies to people who are so shallow and prejudiced that they can't actually see.
Creative people - real ones - will probably pursue living situations like R53, taking advantage of good rents in unexpected, maybe even neglected, locales, in inexpensive gnostic isolation, while adderall-addled trust fund twits playact creativity in embalmed, boring and creepy corporate centers like NYC and London.
I am a working artist and have lived in Williamsburg, BK for 9 years. Moved here right before it became super trendy and have a decent rent stabilized apartment. Have had several succesful graphic novels published but I make most of my money illustrating storyboards for advertising agencies (freelance). New York seems to be one of the only cities where I'd get that kind of work.
I also do weekly illustrations for a New York magazine and teach after school art classes in Manhattan.
Williamsburg is perfect for me. There are plenty of self sustaining artsy types living here with eay access to Manhttan. There is an art supply store, an indie comic book store, a good library, nice bars with outdoor space and a fun gay scene.
R51, who are you even talking about? You're sure as fuck not talking about me, and I consider myself creative (musician/songwriter/bandleader).
R33, I hope that's not the best answer anyone can give to the question "Will the NYC real estate bubble ever burst?" because I barely understood what you were getting at, and I imagine the situation is a lot more complicated.
R28, I too, have been looking into Silverlake (currently in Astoria), and I agree it's nowhere near as expensive as New York. Los Angeles in general isn't as expensive as NYC, I don't care if they've got sales tax .15% higher than ours.
People tried to make Hudson, NY a happening place for artists and creative types, but it never panned out. Too much ghetto.
Silverlake is really expensive too NYers and you NEED a car, that is going to cost you, insurance, gas....etc. Gas in CA is about $4.50 per gallon, you do the math. Oh and Silverlake borders some sketchy areas so your car will probably be broken into, and parking is a bitch in LA, freeways are horrific, slow and always trafficky, even at 10 pm at night. And you'll have to pay for parking whereever you go too...
I'm a creative type who hasn't felt like much of one for a long time now. Live in NYC and it's all I can do to survive on my own (got no one), which means all I ever do is go to work and come home. That's basically it. Just started going to the gym this past week cuz I'm tired of being overweight and out of shape, mostly from stuffing myself with sugar because that's my drug of choice to deal with my frustration at not living the kind of "New York life" I'd long dreamed about all those years when I was growing up in Texas. Not saying I don't like NYC anymore -- I actually consider it home now -- but it's just I wish things were a lot different. And better.
No real complaints, though. As far as I know I'm healthy and I have a job (yes, I hate it -- 48 years old and I'm a fucking secretary jumping around for 20-something-year-old lawyers -- but it keeps me alive), so it's all good. Thinking about trying to write something again, only because it was the only true joy I had and I let it go, plus it gave me a little bit of hope for the future. I don't know, we'll see.
How long have you been in NYC, R60? I feel the same way--I spend way too much time working/commuting/getting around the city and not enough time working on my creative pursuits. It's taking FOREVER to get my first big project finished. Fortunately, there are no deadlines.
R59, if I don't want my car to be broken into, what neighborhood do you recommend? And yes, I know owning a car is expensive, I've done it before. I look at this way, at least I'll be giving up my fucking $102/mo. Metrocard and I'll have my own ride: my own music in the stereo, blasting, and I won't have to sit directly across from miserable, hideous people while I'm getting to wherever I'm going.
I've been here 13 years, R62. And again, I still like NYC and consider it home, but just disappointed with myself that I haven't been able to do more with my life and time here. My failing, no one else's.
I can also understand someone wanting to get out (of NYC) and give somewhere new a try. And I certainly wish anyone who does decide to move on the very best.
R45 is correct.
LA is so fucking cheap compared to ANYWHERE in NYC. I wish I could move there now. DL seems split between people who will pay $400 for a monthly gym membership and those too broke to buy a coffee, but for those somewhere in the middle, you can get a nice studio for less than $1000 a month in LA. Of course, that's assuming you don't have kids or a partner but still. Anything that costs $1000 a month in NYC is either a crack den or a closet in someone's 1-bedroom apartment.
If there is any city that is benefiting from NYC being overpriced, its LA. There is a mass exodus of young talent from NYC to LA, and an influx of people who maybe would have chosen NYC now going to LA. Yes, LA has problems and it isn't cheap compared to the rest of the country, but compared to NYC, it is VERY affordable.
You are already starting to see a culture shift from NYC to LA, and in 10 years or so, I fully expect LA to be on equal or better footing.
Do you live in LA, R65?
Yeah, well, R59, that's all true - a car is an extra expense, but LA apartments are generally larger than NYC apartments of similar rent, so you do get more sq. footage for your money. And trust me, carrying your big bag of laundry to a corner laundromat every week; schlepping bags of food from the supermarket (in rain and sun) over several blocks; fighting for your standing spot on the subway train at 9am; driving for hours to the nearest beach in the summer... it all starts to wear you down.
I don't know if any city will excite me as much as Manhattan does, but that doesn't mean that I have to live here.
I am a firm believer in disruptive change as a positive force. You can reach an age where you can easily start to get complacent and when that happens there's a danger you'll stop questioning the way you see the world or quit trying new things or say you don't care if you ever see Rome. When you tear up your life, it forces you to embrace the idea of that you can become someone better than who you used to be.
[quote]There is a mass exodus of young talent from NYC to LA
I know of at least ten film people, colleagues of mine, who have moved to LA in the past five years or so. They say it took them a couple of years to adjust to living in LA, but they all say they're happy they've left.
The more relevant question is what does "creative" mean in 2013, anyway? Someone who lives in an attic and makes paintings? Composes operas? Knits sweaters to sell on Etsy?
None of these things seem to speak to young, bright, imaginative people, who would sooner start up a company, create a smartphone app, or build a better, more cost efficient and eco friendly widget. It's a new age.
I videotape kittens jumping into boxes. I'm a filmmaker!!!!!
A large proportion of them have come to Seattle and are bitching already. Wait until it starts raining again if it ever does.
Who the hell thinks that Seattle is cheap?
Austin and around Big Bend National Park in TX. Marfa and Terlingua especially. Tons of artistic hippie types. Terlingua especially has a lot of people who want to disappear off the grid. Cool place btw.
[quote]You are already starting to see a culture shift from NYC to LA, and in 10 years or so, I fully expect LA to be on equal or better footing.
They'll both thrive. Because they're SO different as cities, they can never cancel each other out.
In the past.
R69 has written the most I potent post of this whole thread.
Listen to him in awe.
Good luck, R 60, even taking a step like going to the gym can change your life in unexpected ways.
The app developers in R69's post are not artists. They're just a variation on the computer geek. Piss off, R69.