Is it true that the Spanish Royals have Aztec blood?
Queen Sofia hates king Juan Carlos for refusing to leave a woman that has been his longtime lover and is going to divorce him
[quote]Is it true that the Spanish Royals have Aztec blood?
Where the hell did you hear that? The King is a Bourbon, which means he's French and Italian; the Queen is from the Greek royal family, which means she's of German descent.
There is talk of Juan Carlos abdicating in favor of his son. The King is wildly unpopular but he will hang on as long as he can. If the country wants a republic, he will abdicate in a last ditch effort to save the monarch since his son is quite popular.
JC is deffo a major liar/cheat and womanizer but no way is Sofia divorcing him, not this late in the game. She was born royal herself and raised to be a Queen in every sense, will suffer until the end.
If reports about JC's health are true she won't have long to wait.
R2, I started this thread by request. Another poster in the Monaco Royals thread claimed there was Aztec blood mixed in with the Spanish Royals. Perhaps it's with an illegitimate child?
I think the Aztec blood comes from descent from someone who married into the line from Mexico or South America? There were Mexican royals a few centuries ago.
Whatever became of the corruption allegations against the Infanta Cristina's husband? He was accused of taking kickbacks or embezzlement.
WTF are you smoking!
r8 yes. A couple of Belgian royals (Maximillan and his wife) were sent to Mexico as figurehead royals after Napoleon had conquered that country.
An earlier Mexican Emperor was Augustin, whose mother was rumored to be native Mexican ancestry.
See what happens when you actually know something about a country, R8?
The Iturbides, descendants of Agustin I (adopted by the childless Maximilian) still claim the Crown of Mexico.
r7, Infanta Cristina is moving to Switzerland and Inaki Urgandarin is staying in Barcelona due to this trial.
They were regular royals, not Mexican royals. The rumor is just that, we have no confirmation that the royals bred with the natives.
Cristina has basically been exiled. They want her out of the way, right now the monarchy is unpopular so it's better she's out of the picture for a while.
How about this stunner? Princess Elena, another daughter of the king. Married a gay too. She's like a horrible old Hapsburg from a Goya painting.
Pictures in the story show the English and Spanish royals in 1987 and 2010. They must have vacationed together quite a bit. I saw Charles and Diana with Juan Carlos and Sofia in Palma de Mallorca in November 1986. The story says they were also together in August 1986.
It's a Daily Mail story so chances are the details are incorrect. I don't see a 2010 photo.
Sorry for the error. The other pic was 1990.
Oh please!The royals bred with the natives. They were all pigs and bastards.
There are also current rumors that the marriage between Felipe and Letizia is at its breaking point. They vacation separately now, and were barely together in Palma.
r15, I have also read that too.
How did Letizia snag that sexy mf anyway? I heard that Felipe's parents did not approve. I hadn't heard about the marriage being at its breaking point.
r23, Here is a link (in Spanish) about an article in the newspaper El Mundo about their marriage. There has been numerous articles from different Spanish newspapers with that similar theme -- that Letizia is not fit to be a princess, and that she wants out. Also, they (the Royal House) is painting Felipe as the 'sad' and lonely father. People are thinking that the Royal House is making up a narrative that will leave Felipe as the victim if ever they announce a separation.
Felipe looks like he would be an awesome fuck. Leticia, not so much. He's probably afraid to break her, she's so skeletal.
If she's not fit to be a princess, is she not fit to be queen?
Didn't he used to date lingerie models?
[quote]How did Letizia snag that sexy mf anyway?
No comment about her, but Felipe is as homely as Elena.
Yeah, it's in an urn on the fireplace mantel.
What's going on with the son in law's corruption inquiry?
Certainly Mexican and Peruvian princes and princesses, and other New World nobility, came to the Spain post-conquest, received Spanish educations and titles. See link on the Duke de Moctezuma. I don't believe there is any intermarriage between these families and the Spanish royal house, although there might have been, and there might be rumors that it did happen.
Of course, the issue of European royalty who held imperial positions in the New World (Carlotta and Maximilian for example) is a different one entirely.
A great many Spanish and Portuguese families, including the most important ones, due to Iberia's extremely long history of multiculturalism and empire, have African, New World, Muslim and Jewish ancestors as well as ancient European roots. And of course these families have married other Europeans, including aristocrats and even royals.
We're all connected.
For instance, Burke's Peerage asserts that Elizabeth II is descended from the Prophet Muhammad. While this sounds like the stuff of legend, it certainly could be possible.
r30, Cristina is moving to Switzerland with their kids and Inaki is staying in Barcelona to continue with his corruption case.
Isn't Inaki the Basque handball player? What did he do?
I read somewhere that Queen Sofia was in love with another European crown prince (seem to recall it was Crown Prince Harald of Norway) and cried all the way through the wedding ceremony to JC.
Also read that She caught him in bed with one of his mistresses when the children were toddlers and it has been separate bedrooms ever since. She gets a lot of sympathy on conservative royal blogs.
I find that good royal gossip is hard to come by. It is either too reverential or on Gossip Cop level. Also a lot of people detest Letizia so it is difficult to know what is really going on. But the one who seems most despised on these GC type boards is Mary in Denmark.
"A couple of Belgian royals (Maximillan and his wife)".
They were Austrian, dear (Hapsburgs).
Why is Letizia disliked?
Because people never thought she was good enough for Felipe.
I don't get the impression Letizia is disliked anymore, now that they've been married a while and have the two girls. In the beginning there were issues obviously, with her being a divorcee. JC was supposedly dead set against her but Felipe stood firm, as he'd already given up two previous loves (Sartorius and the Norwegian lingerie model who's name escapes me) and wasn't going to give up Letizia. It's all seemed to work out well.
The stories of Sofia's unhappiness in her marriage are legion. Once she had the children JC had little use for her and treated her abomindably. The one story I heard (from someone who used to work for them on holiday in Spain) was that she was so upset at one point she bundled up the children and went to the airport to leave, only to be intercepted by guards and hustled back to the palace. JC told her she could leave but the children would have to stay. She of course stayed.
JC seems like a huge pig. There's a video on youtube where he reprimands Felipe in front of party guests and cameras simply for not wearing cuff links.
I am Spanish, and there are many misconceptions in this thread.
Juan Carlos is an abominable man who has used his "democratizing influence" during the Transition, as well as his rejection of the false coup of 1982 (which he himself planned in order to improve his public image), as a means to do as he pleased without being questioned, and accumulate an outrageous amount of wealth at the expense of Spanish taxpayers. He was untouchable up to 2007, when his enemies among the radical right wing, who long for a return of fascism and are the true power behind the Constitutional Monarchy charade, decided that it was time to get rid of him and started to uncover all of his fraudulent "business deals" and tendency to help himself from tax coffers, among other things.
He is also rumoured to have murdered his brother the Infante Alfonso, who was his parents's clear favourite, in order to ensure his easy accession to the throne if they could ever go back to Spain(the royal family was then exiled in Portugal, before that mass murderer bastard General Franco brought them back).
Sophia, just like her despicable and incompetent brother Constantine, is a narrow-minded, fanatical Christian, homophobic, classist and shamefully unintelligent and ignorant old harpy. It's widely know that she has used taxpayers' money to line her family's pockets after they were unceremoniously kicked out of Greece by the Military junta, which Constantine initially supported, but then tried to oust in order to seize power all for himself. Both Sophia and her family, as well as the two obnoxious Infantas, are the very embodiment of arrogance, ignorance and stupidity, and their sense of entitlement is as large as the entire galaxy.
Felipe is an idiot (in spite of what the official media says, he never even managed to complete his baccalaureate studies), and he is as weak as he is petulant. Many people have even less faith in him than they initially had in his father and, since his only preoccupations seem to be sleeping around with whores and spending money, I am not surprised. All of his girlfriends were deemed unsuitable: Isabel Sartorius was rejected because her parents were nouveau riches, Gigi Howard was a clumsy gold-digger and Eva Sannum wasn't an underwear model, but the ugliest call girl in history, and with the worst personality. When his parents told him that he couldn't marry that horrid slag,he threw a massive tantrum and chose to marry Letizia instead. His parents only relented when he threatened them with abdicating if they didn't allow him to marry her.
Thanks for the input R43. It's nice to get your view on the Spanish Royals.
As for Letizia, she is not hated; she is absolutely detested by most people, since it's widely known that she fucked her way to the top. People would have been more willing to forgive that, however, if she didn't have such a nefarious "fuck you" attitude, and tried to be pleasant to people. Of all the royals, she is the most entitled and her displays of aggressiveness and rudeness are infamous all over Spain. You have to understand that, since we Spaniards literally support these people with our taxes, we actually have a right to demand absolute perfection. Which is another issue: all of Letizia's family (who claim to be socialists and against the monarchy and yet, are always tripping over their own feet in order to mingle with the nobility and the royals), stopped working as soon as she married Felipe, and we have to support them as well. While officially they do "work", the truth is that they have been given extremely well paid jobs in the Spanish government, for which they are far from qualified.
So yes, that rancid cunt Letizia is widely disliked, as are her arriviste relatives - who have committed several frauds themselves in spite of being "for the people", even though all of it has been hastily hushed.
I follow Spanish Royals and r43 pretty much sums everything up. I'll also add that Letizia is very unpopular know days.
Ewww these royals sound from hell.
Surely there must be someone respectable and honest among them?
I recently read (sorry, can't remember where) how Letizia refuses to carry out simple duties like speaking with guests at formal functions, which ostensibly is part of her job description. Someone gave an example of a recent event where she refused to participate in a handshake line (or something that involved interaction with people) and hid behind some large curtains. Some posters wondered if it was social shyness, but the consensus was that she just doesn't like it or feels above it.
I remember an awkward moment when she and Felipe were being interviewed right after Spain won WC. It was Felipe as the crown prince who was supposed to be interviewed primarily, but she kept butting in and hogging the interview. Guess it's not social shyness.
So does Elena have some kind of a mental disorder or intellectual deficit?
R43 More Spanish royal gossip por favor.
R43 here. Elena suffers from borderline mental retardation and was given a degree in Pedagogy to create the illusion of the perfect, cultured, super refined and yet oh-so-humble royal family that the media kept shoving down our throats for years. She is also said to be a nymphomaniac. Apparently, the royal guards are terrified of the few times when she decides to descend to the royal palace of La Zarzuela, because they know that she is going to "invite" one of them to her bedroom - these invitations have to be accepted, lest the intended victim lose his job. Her husband Jaime de Marichalar, was a good-for-nothing member of the uppermost nobility, and comes from one of the most powerful and prestigious families in Spain. He is openly bisexual and had many relationships with both male and female models (paying them generously, as he isn't exactly handsome or even normal-looking). Elena finally divorced him after he suffered an aneurysm during a cocaine-fueled orgy held at his mistress' house, the model and former Miss Spain Juncal Rivero. He now lives from alimony payments.
The other Infanta, Cristina, is the only one with a normal level of intelligence, but she is the nastiest bitch imaginable. Only Leticia's personality is worse. She met her husband, infamous thief and fraudster Inaki Urdangerín, during the Atlanta Olympic Games in 1996. They dated for two years - during this time, he was still engaged to his college sweetheart Carme Camí, who woke up one day to find out that he was marrying Cristina. The couple started siphoning public funds into their bank account almost straight away, under Juan Carlos' protection, through a complex network of societies and charities. What eventually brought about their downfall was an investigation into the illegal financing of the right wing Popular Party - it was then discovered that he had received millions and millions of public money to "organize" cultural events, which mysteriously disappeared. Urdangarín's trial was a mockery, and Cristina, who is obviously guilty as hell, was cleared of all charges even before everything started. Now they have discreetly retreated back into the shadows, much to Letizia's pleasure - they were the only ones who overshadowed her and it is rumoured that she and Felipe orchestrated the whole thing, among other things because the Infantas hate Letizia, who completely controls Felipe.
Elena's Wikipedia bio says she studied French literature. R43, when you say she's borderline-retarded, do you mean that literally, or are you saying she's dim along the order of Diana (who did famously badly in secondary school)?
This is far better than any British royal intrigue. It's a shame there are such stiff laws for publishing information about the royals.
R51 , she never studied French literature. She was given a degree in Pedagogy in 1986 - a HUGE fuss was made in the media when both Cristina and her graduated (Cristina has a degree in Political Sciences, but Elena graduated much later). Felipe never graduated, even though he is supposed to have a degree in Law and Economics and a Masters in International Relations. Also, since she is supposed to be a native English speaker (Queen Sofía refuses to speak Spanish in private), Elena "worked" as an English teacher for a few years in a private school.
When I mean that she is borderline retarded, I mean that she does suffer from mild mental retardation - that's why she "graduated" after Cristina, even though she is older. It is widely known that she never set foot in a university, and she was educated by private tutors after the age of seven, even though the official version is that she was educated at Santa María del Camino, a very prestigious school. Just like her father and brother, she has extreme difficulty reading and writing, and watching either one of them trying to read a discourse during public events is utterly painful. They have the reading level of a particularly disadvantaged six-year-old.
Felipe is well-spoken and seems fairly intelligent. Are you suggesting he is pussy-whipped by Letizia? How does she control him?
We should have royal gossip threads on DL more often.
This is absolutely delish.
I don't speak Spanish and it's therefore difficult to understand the inner workings of Spanish nobility. I appreciate those here on this thread who are willing to share what sounds like reliable information.
Much is written on the British royals, Monaco, but little on others. Fascinating.
r54, Many people make fun of Felipe because his voice cracks like a teenager when he gives speeches.
For what I've read, Letizia is the one in control in the relationship. Her personally is stronger... I still remember their first interview they gave when they got engaged and she interrupted him while speaking ('dejame terminar'). It was all over the news back then. I am still surprised Prince Frederick of Denmark found a more proper wife than Felipe. I thought it was going to be the other way around.
[quote] I am still surprised Prince Frederick of Denmark found a more proper wife than Felipe. I thought it was going to be the other way around.
Let's not get started on Mary, that's a whole other thread. The gossip surrounding her and the circumstances of her getting with Frederik is the stuff of legend.
R57, when this thread slows down, please please start one on Mary. And her father-in-law might also be interesting to discuss.
Yes, someone please start one about the Danish Royal family.
I'm not a subscriber so can't start one. The Danes are a trip for sure. Margrethe used to be a fave here on DL.
R56 Dejame terminar is probably what she often says during sexy time with the prince, so I gather she's used to saying it.
The Spanish royals sure are deliciously devious.
How in hell did she have 2 kids? I would guess she doesn't even menstruate. She looks asexual. Is there proof he is fucking around with whores?
I started a Danish royal family thread here. Gossip away peasants.
It is fascinating to read all this after seeing the spectacle they put on for the Letizia-Felipe nuptials.
It was such a gloomy ceremony, the head of the church officiating looking so stern, and the deluge outside didn't help. It went on for hours it seems, with the couple making a second stop at a small church.
Thanks for the info! Any gossip on the Duke of Feria?
I had no idea the Spanish royal family is so trashy and scandalous. More, please!
So was Elena's university education fabricated completely out of whole cloth, or did her parents buy her a degree? Seems foolish that they would construct such outlandish lies that could be easily disproved. (Supposedly she studied education not only at two Spanish universities but also the University of Exeter in the UK.)
Good question, r67. I suppose that fabricating was much easier in pre-Internet days. Nowadays I don't think they could get away with fabricating it. Many folks' falsified resumes have been exposed.
who gives a fuck? More inbred, tax-money-wasting idiots who symbolize a lack of progress. The idea of "royalty" is so stupid.
So the infanta Elena is not only mildly retarded but she she's a nymphomaniac too, what's the gossip behind her sexual escapades?
I have never seen video of her speaking but does she sound slow or is it just issues with reading speeches that give her away?
"A couple of Belgian royals (Maximillan and his wife)".
"They were Austrian, dear (Hapsburgs)."
My husband was Austrian. We are Belgian.
We get it. You hate monarchy and think all the royals are a bunch of losers.
R43 Thanks for all the details.
Felipe looked good when he was in his 20s and active in sports, today, not so much.
I would choose Carl Philip from Sweden any day and night.
This still is a pale comparison to the trash that is the Italian Royal Family.
You may be right but Italy is a Republic.
Wow, the person who runs the Mad Monarchist blog surely got his name right.
r43, what are the rumors about Felipe's dick size and Lothario ways? When I lived in Madrid, I thought he was a scorching hot guy.
"A couple of Belgian royals (Maximillan and his wife)".
They were Austrian, dear (Hapsburgs)."
Carlota, the wife of Maximilian, was the daughter of Leopold I.
Of Belgium, darling (House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha).
Carlota's mother, dear heart, was Louise of Orleans, Born in Palermo, Sicily, on 3 April 1812, she was the eldest daughter of the future King Louis-Philippe I, King of the French and of his wife Maria Amalia of the Two Sicilies. As a child, she had a religious and bourgeoise education thanks to the part played by her mother and her aunt, Louise Marie Adélaïde Eugénie d'Orléans to whom she was very close.
On her father's side, she was a descendant of Philippe Égalité, Philippe d'Orléans, Regent for Louis XV, Madame de Montespan, and of Louis XIV and Philippe I, Duke of Orléans both the sons of Louis XIII. On her mother's side, she was a descendant of Maria Theresa of Austria and Catherine de' Medici. At the accession of her father to the throne, under the name Louis-Philippe I, King of the French, when she was eighteen, Louise became a princesse d'Orléans.
The latest news today is that King Juan Carlos gave Cristina/Inaki 1.2 million euros so they could buy their house in Barcelona.
Did this come out in his trial, R80?
Yes, it came out the Inaki investigation.
Why is the money that JC gave his daughter important?
I don't know know much about the corruption scandal involving the son in law.
R76, True, and what's laughable is even though the Italian Republic abolished such titles, the trashy Savoys still style themselves with such. The murderer, gangster, and anti-semite Vittorio Emmanuele claims "Prince of Naples" and "Duke of Savoy" (as does his rival cousin Amedeo, the "Duke of Aosta"), while his son, reality show personality Emmanuele Filiberto and his glamorous French actress wife, Clotilde are styled "Prince and Princess of Venice and Piedmont." I think it's pointless to hold such courtesy titles when you don't even possess these realms.
What's the big deal about Aztec blood in the Spanish line? There every which kind of blood in the British royals including blacks too. The Queen as even said as much.
I have been the Queen of Ocean Blvd here in Long Beach, CA for the last 14 years. I have been quite benevolent and rarely raise my voice.
More gossip on the Spanish Royal Family please!!!
Specially on the King's sisters, the older infantas.
The oldest one, Pilar is as much a homophobe as the queen. The youngest one, Margarita, apparently is the only member of the royal family who is decent (she is blind btw).
Which one of the older Infantas has the son who was married to Laura Ponte? Is she still separated from her husband and are they divorcing.
Cristina is putting the mansion on the block for $13M. It's listed with a firm that specializes in selling to rich Russians. Blech.
[quote]Is it true that the Spanish Royals have Aztec blood?
Yes, they keep it in a little crystal case worn on a ribbon around their neck.
Infantata!? Spanish royals are like that creepy baby from American Horror Story Season 1!!??
Take what the Spaniard gossips say with a HUGE grain of -sal-. The Spanish are unequaled in their snobbery, just unspeakable, and envy.
Nothing wrong with Felipe, or "Flip".
Plus, as it's the money of German and other productive ( ie, not lazy) Europeans that keep shitholes like Greece, Portugal and Spain afloat, -they- subsidize the Spanish royals, so the idle, work-shy Essspanyoles protest too much.
Drop-dead-gorgeous Felipe is an obvious homosexual. One would have to be blind not to have noticed this. So of course the marriage to that hustler stinkfish is 'on the rocks'.
Juan Carlos is believed by many to be the gran capo for the entire European drug empire. Anyone ever wonder how he went from zero money in 1970s to a couple of billion today?
R91, Infante (masc.) and Infanta (fem.) are titles held by the sons and daughters of Spanish and Portuguese kings who aren't heir apparents.
Letizia seems very gay.
Infanta Cristina is going to court March 8th over corruption charges
How are they related to the British royals?
R85 is delusional.
R97, Elizabeth II and Juan-Carlos are both great-great grandchildren of Queen Victoria. The Queen is a great-grandaughter of Edward VII and Juan-Carlos is a great-grandson of The King's sister, The Princess Beatrice, Victoria's youngest child.
Queen Sofia's mother, Fredericka, is the daughter of The Duke of Brunswick and Prince of Hanover, also related to Queen Victoria, and Prince Philip is related to Sofia through her father, Paul of Greece.
Prince Philip and Queen Sofia are first cousins.
Once removed, R100. Philip is the cousin of Sofia's father, King Paul. (Paul's father, King Constantine, and Philip's father, Prince Andrew, were brothers).
Felipe is one hot man. Pity what I've read on this thread about him. Is he still fucking around with those whores?
The Spanish public wants the much-loved in the past king to abdicate
"since we Spaniards literally support these people with our taxes, we actually have a right to demand absolute perfection."
I appreciate your points of view, r45, but what royal in the history of all monarchies - or for that matter what human being - has achieved absolute perfection. There are few if any Buddhas on temporal thrones.
This, of course, is not to suggest that your criticisms and even outright condemnation of members of the Spanish royal family isn't justified.
Im not going to read the 104 previous posts, but the answer to the OP's question is NO, the Spanish Royal Family has NO Aztec blood.
Aztecs were Mexicans, not Spaniards.
Mexicans have Spanish blood, as Spain conquered what is modern-day Mexico. Spain, however, did not "import" Mexicans into Spain, and there isn't an Aztec "royal family". The Aztec leaders were pretty much killed off by the invading Spaniards, back in the 16th century.
The Spanish King's families (The Bourbons & Hapsburgs) are primarily French & Austrian, genetically. The Queen is primarily German background, related to the British Royal family, in fact (the Saxe Coburgs & other Germanic nobility).
Most of Europe's monarchies are familial relations, either closely or distantly, with many being descendents of Britain's Queen Victoria and/or King Christian IX of Denmark.
Until the middle of the last century, royals would only marry other royals, which led to a lot of inbreeding and hereditary diseases (like hemophilia). This is why royals now marry commoners.
R106: If you look at the ruling families of Europe at the outset of WW1, you will see that the Kings of England, Russia & Germany, were all first cousins.
Talk about a family squabble.
R102 He used to be, when he was younger. He needs a diet and regular gym training, I am sure he has time to train.
You're all wrong!
Aztecs were Aztecs and Mayans were Mayan, until those shit Spaniards showed up. Mayan & Aztec blood, mixed with Spanish blood, produced Mexicans (mixed).
Virtually EVERY Mexican has a strain of Mayan or Aztec blood.
The Aztecs were so despised amongst other Indian groups that they fought along with the Spaniards to beat the Aztecs. In fact, there were more Indians fighting the Aztecs than Spaniards.
Oh, and by the way, O Politically Correct One, many of those Spaniards had African heritage. Most were Sephardic.
You are a trashy racist for writing that.
There are descendents of the Aztec Imperial family, in Spain and in Mexico. Some, in Mexico, have the last name "Moctezuma." Actually the person who holds, the colonial in origin noble title Count of the Valley (of Mexico) is a Spanish woman from southern Spain.
She and her lawyers in Spain, tried recently to have the Mexican government restore the Aztec Royals' pension that was abolished sometime in the 20th Century, I believe (not really sure). Anyway, she sparked the ire of her distant relatives in Mexico, as she isnt technically Mexican anymore nor has she ever visited.
There are also descendants of Hernan Cortes who married an Aztec princess, I think and brought the bloodline back to Europe. The famous PAC family in Italy for example (Pignatelli Aragona CORTES), are nobles from southern Italy and Sicily (both part of Spain for a couple centuries.
trust me when I tell you that the elite Spanish families married into Montezuma's family, had children, and raised one or two in the Spanish court.
Others stayed behind with these families and later colonized California and the southwest.
Montezuma was not your typical Aztec either, he was a royal and the Spaniards wanted in on that bloodline.
Montezuma was tall, light-skinned, and very white appearing.
Spain owes Juan Carlos a lot because he was the primary figure in successfully transitioning the country from a fascist dictatorship system back to a constitutional democracy.
Despite the controversies (especially surrounding the corrupt Infanta and her husband), my guess is he will remain in power. It would help if before too long he abdicated in favor of the popular heir to the throne, just as recently happened in the Netherlands and Belgium. In these days when people live so long, it makes no sense for monarchs to stay in power after age 75--they should had over the reins of power to their adult children at that age.
R109 is a trashy, uneducated racist who does not know that MOST Mexicans are not Aztec or Mayan!
R109 has not heard of other Indian groups who have lived in Mexico for thousands of years.
R109 does not know that Mexicans embrace their "gringo" ancestry and like whites for the most part.
R109 thinks that Taco Bell is authentic Mexican food.
Please don't be gay. Seriously.
We don't want you.
[quote]Gringos are Assholes
I guess you don't know that the majority of Spaniards have some north African DNA. (and likely a smattering or Roma DNA, as well) Proximity, the Muslim conquest, and intermarriage tend to have this effect...
[quote] trust me when I tell you that the elite Spanish families married into Montezuma's family, had children, and raised one or two in the Spanish court.
Which has nothing to do with today's royal family (if that's what you were trying to suggest)
r 112, I've heard of the very white skinned, native american nobility, some say its because they had servants who shaded them from the sun for most of their lives and because they lived in palaces as well.
During the first wave of conquest and migration, the conquistadors, many of whom were poor and semi literate, married the native princesses and daughters of chieftains in the areas they conquered. this, obviously to gain, prestige and also legitimacy as local landowners. Later waves of Spanish immigrants later whitened these "first families."
There are also a significant amount of descendants of the Incan imperial families among some upperclass peruvians, bolivians, ecuadorians, chileans, and some argentineans. Take the argentinean Queen of the Netherlands for example.
Black people were "free men" in Spain and many of the Spanish soldiers that came to the New World were in fact black or half-black. But that's different from being North African, which would have been the Berber people, many of whom are blond or redheaded 'white' people.
I have always been fascinated by the fact that Montezuma and his family were tall, fair-skinned people. Montezuma was afraid of his own populace who had become extremely blood thirsty.
Many think that Montezuma was in fact of Phoenician decent.
r116,I've seen the results of extensive genetic studies done on Spain (I actually had an awesome link but i lost it :( *emocut). According to one i read recently, 5 percent of Spaniards have north african ancestry and 10 percent have middle eastern ancestry from the Levant(Lebanon,Syria,Israel) area, which would be historically accurate as in classical times a chunk of Spain was colonized by Phoenicians via Carthage and communities of Jews have also been present since this time.
The overwhelming majority of muslims in spain during the middle ages, were themselves natives that were forcibly converted by a minority group of better armed invaders. I think the term for these converts to islam was "muladi."
"Native Spaniards," at the time of the muslim invasion were a mix of Iberian people(mediterranean dark looking), Romans, Visigoths, Alans, and celtic peoples.
"Spanish" is not a race.
The ancestry of any Spaniard, in any given region, can vary from Viking, to Middle Eastern, to African, to Italian. You have the blond, green-eyed alabaster Spaniards to the dark, curly haired and everything in between.
The Sephardic ones fled Spain and conquered the Americas. Therefore, virtually all mestizo Hispanics, including Mexicans, Peruvians, and even the vatos in LA have Jewish ancestry.
Whether you like or not, mamacita!
The racist La Raza group really undermined themselves for being so deeply anti-Semitic when by being so were dissing their own abuelas!
Those are very broad statements, r120, there definitely were a lot of sephardic jews that came to the americas, but they were more of a large minority in "some" colonies and most of them were by that time converted. Most Sephardic jews however, ended up in Britain, the Netherlands, France, Italy, Portugal, Germany, North Africa, and the ottoman Empire, not to mention the thirteen colonies, jamaica, brazil etc.
They had to convert, R122, as the inquisition followed them to the Americas. But they were clearly of Sephardic decent, and many did intermarry with their second or third cousins that were here as well.
That last person executed for being a hidden Jew was a woman, in Mexico City, in get this--1858!
There are 3 places in Spanish America that Ive heard of as having converso sephardic jews along with the little stigma that that carries in that society. Cuba (both colonial and post colonial immigrants), Mexico (mainly northern Mexico being the extremity of the spanish empire and a place they thought they could hide out in, Monterrey for example has a converso sephardic jewish history, and finally some northern regions of Colombia.
I have to disagree with you though on them being the main ancestral current from europe in latin america though, but in some places they are a significant minority genetically and or ethnically, if that consciousness even exists still.
Many Spanish and Portuguese Jews and Muslims remained in Iberia after the inquisition and converted to Christianity. Often they were accused of being false Christians, and were persecuted as such, and there was clearly a conflict between New Christians and Old Christians socially, but, particularly with Muslims in Spain and Portugal, and to a much lesser degree with Iberian Jews, it would be a mistake to assume that they were all people who descended from relatively recent immigrants from North Africa and the Levant; a great many were people whose family roots in the Penninsula were extremely old; the fact that they changed their religions didn't mean that they weren't of ancient Iberian descent.
Moreover, the notion that New World people's weren't "imported" into Europe is simply wrong.
Some Indians, including some children of Montezuma, and the Inca scholar and historian Garcilaso de la Vega (not to be confused with the poet of the same name) immigrated or were brought to the old world, were educated there, married and raised families some of whom have been part of European aristocracy ever since. Spain's noble house of the Counts of Monteczuma, for instance, are descended from the Mexica (the "Aztecs" didn't refer to themselves as Aztecs, but as Mexica) Emperor Monteczuma.
Notions of "ethnic purity" are fairly ridiculous at this stage in global history including, perhaps especially, when one is speaking of aristocrats and royals whose families have a long history of international marriages and concubinage. As I have noted already, even Burke's peerage contends that Queen Elizabeth may be related to the prophet Mohamed.
125 marry me : )
Did u know how Mexica is pronounced in the old spanish orthography? the x is an sh sound not a ks sound.
r126, my answer to your gracious proposal will depend on whether we have compatible ancestries (I'M JOKING!).
I did know that actually. but as I'm sure you know, even in the newer Spanish orthography the x in "Mexico" is not prounounced as a ks (as we do in English); it's pronounced more like an "h," like the Spanish "j," or with very little consonance at all.
Portrait of the current Countess of Miravalle of Montezuma, Maria del Carmen Enriquez de Luna y Mazo.
Scroll way down to see it.
One trait that some Hispanics have that are descended from the conquistador/Montezuma bloodline is the wine-colored birthmark on the face or neck. It is referred to as the "Silk Road" birthmark and is indicative of the Phoenician ancestry of Montezuma.
Bump for Juan Carlos Abdication.
Maybe he went through the Stargate.
That's fascinating information, R125.
Read the article in R129's link, too.