- This needs to make international news. They need to be stripped of getting the games.
- And there it is, folks. Russia is fucked. Having lived there and experienced its uniquely backwards citizenry, I am not surprised. Sad and scared for my gay Russian friends, but not surprised.
- This gets better every day. Harvey needs to do an update for the media.
- "Communism is the wave of the future!"
- Putin is the new Hitler.
2014 is the new 1938.
- No gay athletes? I guess they're screwed in figure skating and ice dancing.
- Disgusting that they got the Olympics in the first place.
- Obama should speak out about this, even if he can't change it.
He should seek out a treaty, for the duration of the Olympics, that would prevent Russian authorities from arresting foreign gays. And extend immigration privileges to the USA to those threatened by Russia's anti-gay laws.
- Close - 2014 is the new 1914.
- I agree, R9. Is there is a precedent for such a treaty?
- There should be an immediate moratorium of issuing visas or travel documents to any Russian "lawmaker" or Russian politician who voted in favour of the anti-gay laws who wishes to visit the West.
This should also apply to members of their immediate families,especially the wives who live for their shopping trips to London,Paris,New York and Berlin.
Many of these politicians have secondary residences in the UK and France and it should be made clear that their safety and the protection of their property can no longer be guaranteed since after all,turnabout is fair play.
- R7 to say nothing of the Women's Hockey Teams... it would be great to see them leaping over the boards and into the crowd of elite politicos,sticks swinging.
- Not that I know of, R11. But I'm not a lawyer.
That's why it would be nice to hear from America's top-ranking constitutional scholar, The POTUS, acknowledging the problem and proposing alternatives to conflict.
Anything he can do without consulting the Congress? I support. Because: What will Congress pass in concert with the Executive Branch? Nothing. They will block everything. Anything. Until he's not black.
He needs to work around them.
- In Gayland, we arrest Russians.
- This is so confusing for me. I thought homophobia was from the black community.
- NUKE THEM.
- [quote]No gay athletes? I guess they're screwed in figure skating and ice dancing.
Yes, we know from past experience all the male figure skaters have been openly gay.
- R12, the US let crazy pants Irianian guy in.
- If "gay" was replaced with "black" in this scenario how many press conferences would Obama have had by now.
- Johnny Weir has been saying not to boycott the Olympics. Wonder what he thinks now? I thought they promised to not arrest the athletes, just everyone else?
This is beyond sad. I cannot believe it is 2013 and this is being done. It seems like a throwaway joke in Borat about what the Kazykstanis would do the Jews.
- Johnny Weir's got his - he could probably jeapordize endorsements and the lucrative skating tour if he called for a boycott.
- There's a change.org petition to Coca-Cola, Panasonic, Samsung, Procter & Gamble, and Visa to condemn Russia’s anti-gay laws. It lets the sponsors know that we're watching them. The petition has more than 50,000 signatures. Add yours today.
- There's your boycott: the Olympic sponsors. You want to see international attention? Have one of them sue the IOC.
- Times like these when the gays realise how important they are to their straight compatriots: "What? Boycott the Olympics over a bunch of queers? A bit extreme, docha think?"
- Time for all western nations to boycott the Russian games.
- They should not be allowed the games and if they are...no one should go.
I don't think the idea of boycotting the games is extreme at all. They should not be allowed to have the games. The good Russian people should rise up against the most ignorant among them.
- Not happening r26, and you know it.
- Imagine if they were saying this about jews, or blacks, or women, or whatever.
All Western countries should absolutely boycott. North & South America, all of Western Europe... everyone.
How do we organize this?
- Obama is still worse than Putin!
- [quote]There's your boycott: the Olympic sponsors.
Sign the petition and let the sponsors know we're getting ready to boycott sponsors.
- Does this mean that Nathan Adrian won't be allowed to compete?
- LOL at r30. Spot on parody. I wonder if they will make gay Russians wear pink triangles? Could yellow stars be next?
- I'd love to see them try.
- Bullshit, R20. Blacks have been treated horribly in Russia for a long time. I lived there. I know what I am talking about. They have been harrassed, beaten and even killed, oftentimes in plain view of the fucking police. NOTHING is done. Homophobia and racism go hand in hand. The skinheads who are terrorizing gays without any fear of repurcussions are the same people have been brazenly terrorizing black people.
- No one is doubting the existence of racism r35. However they would not openly make laws and public statements against racial minorities. The fact that they think can so publicly and officially get away with pure bigotry needs to be fought against.
- I have a bad feeling about all this.
- Okay, okay. I was wrong. You're right, R36. I see the difference. I still believe that there is a disgusting level of systemic racism in Russia that may as well be legislated. But it isn't as if Russian lawmakers are announcing that they will be arresting black athletes and visitors. So, indeed, it is much worse and should warrant commentary by our President as well as the leaders of other participating nations. Let's hope this happens soon.
- Obama will have a chance to prove he is really the first gay president by boycotting the games & keeping Americans at home.
- I tried to post this around, I'm pretty sure that most people don't know anything about the problem.
- I will boycott the Olympics personally. I will not watch one second of it (and I normally do).
- Forget what retrograde Russia does...it's how the "civilized" West acts that I am interested in.
- Ooooh, you're such a harsh bitch, r41. Whatsoever shall we do now?!
- [quote]I will boycott the Olympics personally. I will not watch one second of it (and I normally do).
That's not enough. Let the sponsors know you'll boycott their goods.
- Sochi is a crap city anyway.
- We should have gone nuclear on those Russian fuckers while we had the chance.
- "I just want to meet a nice Russian man."
"Yes! It's Russians! This is going to work out great."
"I've just really been craving Russian food lately."
"We had a blast in Turkey/Greece. Stayed in one of the hotels that caters to Russian tourists!"
-said no non Russian person ever since the beginning of time.
- For every gay athlete they arrest, we should arrest one random Russian. Chances are they are active in the Russian mob anyway so this could work out very well for us.
- I agree with R5. Putin is the new Hitler. We need to let Obama know we expect his administration to make a vocal fervent effort to pressure Russia into reversing this abdominal direction into fascism or there will be another Holocaust.
- Truth Wins Out has a petition going asking NBC to send Rachel Maddow to cover the Sochi Games as a "special human rights correspondent."
- I am really curious to see how Norway and Sweden will justify sending delegations to Sochi to their own people. As for USA, there are lot of homegrown fundies who agree with Putin.
- I wonder what an opening ceremony would look like without the contributions and participation of any gay people?
- sports is apolitical,it's for sports
they can help gay people in russia approving asylum seekers on the basis of persecution by the state
- Put in is a Hitler, the games should be cancelled.
- Oh please R9, for many Americans Russia is just a model for the US. They would have the US be the same, if they could.
- So if Anderson Cooper goes, would he be arrested? Serious question here.
- Why is there a picture of Bruce Vilanch with the article?
- IF that's true (and how do you KNOW a tourist is gay??), then Obama should drop a fucking bomb on Russia. Not kidding.
- Agree with R54 wholeheartedly.
- "Oh please [R9], for many Americans Russia is just a model for the US. They would have the US be the same, if they could."
Except they can't. That's the difference, you see.
- Not one peep from the Obama administration about this. NOT ONE.
- There is an online White House petition about this so there's a possibility that the Obama administration won't remain silent.
- Rink prease, R62.
- Relocate to Vancouver...
- Obama may be waiting out this Snowden debacle to make a statement.
- We shouldn't boycott the Olympics because people work hard their entire lives and make so many sacrifices to get there. I'm sure the gays will be fine.
When the U.S. boycotted the Olympics in 1980, it ruined so many athletes' lives and some of them even committed suicide. Have some empathy & understanding!
- and America is not boycotting this because---
had they said they would arrest Black athletes or tourists I guess it would carry more gravitas in terms of social conscience.
- [quote] When the U.S. boycotted the Olympics in 1980, it ruined so many athletes' lives and some of them even committed suicide.
Gay people's lives are being ruined in Russia and THEY are being imprisoned and committing suicide. How else are people meant to speak out against Putin and this sickening, Hitleresque law? Those millions of LGBT people in Russia need are support and Putin needs to be held to the wall and know that the people of the world do not support persecution.
- R21 Johnny doesn't have to worry about being arrested in Russia. Cause he won't make the Olympic team.
Only two men's spots available.
- [quote]Not one peep from the Obama administration about this. NOT ONE.
I'm sure Obama's views on this are "evolving".
- R63, the link to the White House petition was posted yesterday in one of the three or four threads on this topic.
- Jimmy Carter boycotted the 1980 Olympics in Moscow and it was a disaster. Of course, 1980 was one big disaster for Jimmy Carter.
- "'Gay propaganda' law co-sponsor says he is unconcerned about a US visa ban, saying: 'I've spoken to US politicians, and they support my stance'
- Johnny's out of shape and was never that great to begin with.
- White House petition
- Good! They want a boycott, they'll get one. The one they should have had even with a moratorium on their vile law!
- QUEERTY has published an open letter to Obama with a list of things he should do regarding his stance on the Olympics and his upcoming meeting with Putin. They include:
Press Russia and the International Olympic Committee to secure a guarantee of safety for LGBT athletes.
Promise to put the spotlight on LGBT issues during the Olympics.
Hold a meeting with gay activists during the presidential trip.
Speak out in support of LGBT rights to the press while in Russia.
Full story at link.
- Just as there was an international boycott of the 1980 Moscow Olympic Games because of the invasion of Afghanistan, there should also be an international boycott of the Sochi Winter Games because of Russia's oppression of gay people.
- [quote]There is an online White House petition about this so there's a possibility that the Obama administration won't remain silent.
These are online petitions TO the White House and they don't mean much, unfortunately. You can browse the list and sign whatever you want.
- That's disgraceful that there are only 146 signatures on that petition. People should sign that STAT and post it the fuck all over Facebook and Twitter. THAT is how momentum builds.
- But what about all the athletes who worked for this for their entire lives and missed out on major life events? What about all the money their parents spent to get them to this point? Where is the compassion? Where is the understanding? A boycott would be a crushing blow to the athletes. How can you be so callous?
- [quote] But what about all the athletes who worked for this for their entire lives and missed out on major life events? What about all the money their parents spent to get them to this point? Where is the compassion? Where is the understanding? A boycott would be a crushing blow to the athletes. How can you be so callous?
But what about all the Russian human beings who anticipated that they would be considered human beings their entire lives and now will miss out on major life events such as employment, life dreams, the ability to live with one's partner without harassment? What about all the life investment their parents have spent on their lives, feeding them raising them, only to get them to this point? Where is the compassion? Where is the understanding? A PERSECUTION ***IS*** a crushing blow to the Russian human beings who are having to live under this law. How can you be so callous?
- Pressure the sponsors, not the Russian govt.
- [quote] Pressure the sponsors, not the Russian govt.
Are you naive? Do you know how international boycotts work? Do you think that ANC came about through gentle protests against sponsors?
- Let's see, r66: a person hoping to win a medal vs a person wanting to live a life free to express themselves without being put in prison or possibly being killed. Which is more important?
- This petition seems to have the most momentum...
- "I'm sure the gays will be fine."
Really, R66? You're SURE? Well, I guess you're right, if by fine you mean hiding scared, or languishing in prison. What's the big deal, really?
What the hell are you doing on a gay message board, when you so clearly have no interest in the well being of gay people? Do we entertain you? Well, I'm glad we're good for something.
- r84: Cynical, not naive. I cannot imagine these proud/arrogant Russians politician folding on this issue, and so close from their "media-triumphant" imposition of a morality law. And I would rather have the OG cancelled, rather than they temporarily submit to the pressure to be non-discriminatory during the games, they revert to persecuting gays when the OGs are done.
The OG officials are turning a deaf ear so far, I do not think they will be aggressive on this issue. So I say hit it where it hurts-- the $$. Put these sponsors on the spot and have them withdraw.
- Money talks. Pressure on the sponsors with the threat of a boycott of the Olympic sponsors can push them to put pressure on our government to take action to condemn the Russian government's gay bashing. We need to take aim at Russia from many angles.
R80 people keep staring new/different petitions for the same thing. It says not to keep starting new ones, because the signatures don't get combined.
- A visa ban on these Russian "Black Hand" Duma members is one of the best things we could do. Let's get them banned from Europe, Australia, NZ, Canada and the USA. That would drive them NUTS, really. They would go after the Jews if they could, but they know that wouldn't go over very well today.
- r84 and whoever mentioned to be gentle when exerting pressure on sponsors?
- R85, the comparison would only be valid if boycotting the Olympics was actually going to lead to overturning the stupid Russian laws. Which it won't. Moreover, gay organisations in Russia don't want the Olymmpics boycotted. Protests against Russia and going for the sponsors are essential though but boycotting is juvenile and counter-productive.
R91 also doesn't live in reality.
- "Boycotting is juvenile and counter-productive," said Anita Bryant just before she got fired by the Florida orange juice people.
- Sure, r94, if we have a boycott then the IOC will strip Russia of the Olympics.
- If Obama doesn't care Russia is not worried. And O does not seem to care.
- r95 If no (sponsor) money's coming in, they'll be forced to. Plus the embarrassment and media attention it will incur if these major brands drop the OGs and, in effect, Russia-- it will serve as the harsh light needed to expose their apathy and bigotry, respectively.
- the guy saying this or who came up with this must be gay and hates himself or his father was gay and he hates his father
- Athletes and their endeavors? To bad, there is something much more important then self important athletes.
- Conon mentioned it on his show last night. The audience didn't seem to know how to react.
- Who here was calling for a boycott of the US in 84, 96 or 02 you know when the US made gay sex a crime, had laws in states that allowed teachers to be fired for saying anything pro-gay (Utah and Georgia were hardly gay friendly states in their Olympic years).
Boycotting Olympics do nothing. The 80 boycott hardly helped Afghanistan.
And it will backfire in public sentiment against gay people, not to mention hurt gay athletes.
There is already talk in Sweden of athletes showing support for human rights.
We should be encouraging all athletes to flout the Russian law and speak out for gay people -- just like the Black Panthers did - and really send a message.
- This is so typical DL -- a bunch of delusional posters thinking a boycott will happen and will devastate Russia. These are probably the same clowns who were so sure the U.S. Supreme Court was going to declare same-sex marriage legal in all 50 states.
Here's the fact.
China suppresses rights for more than a billion people -- suppressing free speech, censoring the internet, and arresting political dissidents. And ALL discrimination against gay people is legal there.
Where were you boycotters when Beijing rolled around?
And the U.S. executes people, something considered deplorable in most civilized countries in the world. But you wanted your Olympics, didn't you?
R101 is right. Constructive protest in Russia is the answer.
- [quote] We should be encouraging all athletes to flout the Russian law and speak out for gay people -- just like the Black Panthers did - and really send a message.
You are REALLY missing the point. Not "all athletes" will be allowed to compete. Gay athletes are explicitly (and implicitly, for all the closet cases) forbidden to enter Russia. This really is the situation of straight people drinking at whites-only water fountains.
And, what is more, boycotts and sanctions brought down apartheid and has held Israel accountable for persecution of its Arab populations as well. Governments - which are businesses themselves - listen when money is concerned and power (or the potential loss of power) is concerned.
- [quote]a bunch of delusional posters thinking a boycott will happen and will devastate Russia.
Check your mirror for a delusional poster.
NOBODY SAID A BOYCOTT WILL DEVASTATE RUSSIA!!!!
- [quote] This is so typical DL -- a bunch of delusional posters thinking a boycott will happen and will devastate Russia. These are probably the same clowns who were so sure the U.S. Supreme Court was going to declare same-sex marriage legal in all 50 states.
I fucking hate Uncle Tom kiss-ups like you, who say don't bother, don't rock the boat, it will be to no avail. Kiss my queer ass. You are always likely the one pouring scorn on any movement of dissent, from Occupy Wall Street to feminism to Civil Rights to Soweto. I'd bet good fucking money you are a Republican and/or a Libertarian as well - with your type it's always the bottom dollar and don't rock the boat (or disturb us with your petty insistence on same-sex marriage) - you have no sense of greater social conscience and no understanding how progressive social movements actually build heat and grow.
- R104, see R97 and the logic of how boycotting sponsors will embarrass the IOC and then Russia.
Of course, a boycott will do noting because it's NOT GONNA HAPPEN. Not of sponsors, not of the Olympics.
- You're an hysteric, R105.
I supported athletes going TO Russia and protesting against the law -- how is that being Uncle Tom? THAT is what the Occupy Wall Streeters did.
Again, I say, where are your protests against China, against the death penalty in the U.S.?
I thought so.
- R103, you are REALLY making shit up. Just like the Russian lawmaker who made the stupid quote.
There is no evidence gay athletes will not be allowed in the country. None whatsoever.
- [quote] I supported athletes going TO Russia
Do you not understand that GAY and BISEXUAL and LESBIAN athletes cannot now go to Russia? How do you feel about that? They are prevented from competing from the get-go.
- R107 is crazed (and likely Russian) but makes a valid point re: constructive protest. Get all of the Western athletes to wear pink triangles or something.
That said, boycott the sponsors.
- R109, you are not only entirely wrong but just stupid.
Blake Skjellerup, openly gay speed skater IS going AND planning to where a rainbow pin.
What do YOU not understand?
The IOC has said it has assurances gay athletes will be protected and even the US State Department has only issued concerns about athletes going out and about IN Russia, not that gay athletes will not be allowed in.
So an openly gay athlete wants to go and do exactly what others have been saying -- OPENLY saying fuck you to Russia -- and you want to boycott the Olympics so he can't do it.
- It makes no sense to go beyond the first sentence posted by R102. It's obvious he's a liar so there's no need to read beyond.
And R106 makes the moronic claim that R97 is saying Russia will be devastated. He's too supid to know the difference between a devastated nation and a bullying nation getting a message of right and wrong from freedom-loving peoples.
- Oh yes, R110, it's crazy to say protest, don't boycott.
Did you boycott sponsors to the Beijing Olympics for widespread discrimination against gay people there? How did that work out?
- Thanks R111 and R113 for the link and the support.
And R109 you should especially read it. It says Russian lawmakers say that gay athletes will not be stopped at the border and will be allowed to participate.
It's only if they go into the street to protest that they'll be arrested. We'll see if he tries to arrest anyone like Skjellerup for wearing a rainbow pin.
- [quote]Did you boycott sponsors to the Beijing Olympics for widespread discrimination against gay people there?
Did you boycott British tea when they added that damn tax? I'll bet you totally avoided the tea party at Boston Harbor as you sat around drinking your Earl Grey.
- R115, as a boycott supporter, direct that question at yourself. You were probably alive then anyway.
- I'm against Olympic boycotts that are just a general protest against a country's political policies or actions (like 1980.) They don't do any good and they punish the athletes that worked their whole lives to get there.
But Russia is threatening the athletes themselves. That to me is the big difference. If that doesn't warrant a boycott, what does?
And when the IOC awards the Olympics, doesn't the host country have to guarantee it won't target the athletes?
- Another silly response from R112.
And since the boycott is not going to happen -- even the vodka boycott is falling apart -- I'm correct.
You're delusional if you think it's going to send happen, much less send a message.
- [quote] Thanks [R111] and [R113] for the link and the support.
As I suspected, you are an athlete or connected to an athlete. Don't you have a conscience? You're probably Weir himself.
- We need R113 to post links to all the things he's posted regarding widespread discrimination against gay people in China. No doubt, we'll have plenty to read.
- [quote] even the US State Department has only issued concerns about athletes going out and about IN Russia
You think this is acceptable in any way? Firstly, that LGBT athletes remain confined to the Olympic Village and secondly, (and to hell with the athletes I say, re, this situation) that a Russian citizen is in danger ALL of the time as a gay person in Russia (and Uganda too for the record - and yes, I have turned down work in Uganda for that reason) now due to thsi persecution.
I urge you to watch videos on the thuggery that awaits out-or-suspected gay people in Russia. They are bashed in full view of the police, often with the police's support. The LGBT Russians who protest at the moment knowing it could cost them their lives are the real heroes, not pampered little hothouse athletes dreaming of their big day.
- Wow, R120, are you trying to prove that people on your side of this argument are crazy?
I responded to R109 who insisted that gay people would not be allowed in.
And rather than acknowledging that, and supporting an out and proud athlete for trying to go to Russia and show what gay people can do -- AND to protest as well -- you're saying I have no conscience? And presumably he doesn't?
- Yes, I do in fact claim that a gay athlete who participates in the Sochi Winter Olympics while ignoring the fact that he/she is "special" enough not to be persecuted like your average Ivan/Ivanova LGBT Russian should take a closer look at his or her moral stance.
- R113, you don't seriously need a link to believe that there is anti-gay discrimination in China. Are you that ignorant?
And it's not just gay people. As said by others, all of its citizens face censorship and arrest of political dissidents.
Since you apparently need an education.... here's your link.
- Well then R124 you need to tell us where you're from and all that you boycott to exercise your conscience.
I think Skjellerup is showing more courage and will bring more attention to this issue than you ever will ranting on DL about a boycott that will never materialize.
- r125 I think your comment was directed at R121 -- that typical DLer who doesn't know anything happens unless someone gives him a link.
Thinks China must be safe for gay people unless someone gives him a link.
That is some funny shit.
- Well the story's now being covered by the AP and Yahoo...
- I hope they arrest that Uncle Tom Johnny Weir and publicly execute him. What a traitor and asshole.
- R122, when did I ever say it was acceptable behaviour?
The issue is whether a boycott is the answer. As has been said, the one that's precedent did nothing to help people in Afghanistan. Openly gay athletes participating and wearing signs of support will give this issue more coverage than it's getting now. PERIOD.
There will be no boycott. And next year, you will see that the Olympics happening in Russia will probably bring MORE attention to the issue and expose it than it would otherwise.
Do you think most Americans are following what's happening in Russia? In Uganada?
NO. But they will because of the Olympics.
- Well there is your boycott poster boy, right there at R129, someone most likely from the death penalty country that is the U.S. -- the same country that uses drones on innocents in Afghanistan -- the nation that the U.S. did NOT save by its first boycott of the Olympics in 1980.
And now he's calling for an execution for someone who won't support a boycott.
- r131 for the WIN.
Let's recap - The US boycotts the Olympics in Moscow to save Afghanistan and now uses drones to kill children and other non-combatants.
Americans accuse anyone opposing a new boycott traitors and having no conscience while they stay and pay taxes and spend money in the US.
- Again no worries about Johnny Weir going to the Olympics.
Because he is NOT going to make the team.
Only two spots available, and judging by his last amateur performance, he'd be lucky to make top five at Nationals.
- God, R129, please get some therapy. You need help.
- R129 see R133
Now let's move on.
- Boycott the sponsors. Money talks.
- Wow, I wish I had made the link at R131.
Is anyone else talking about the US using drones in Afghanistan after it used the boycott to take a stand there?
Where is the outrage against the drones in Afghanistan while reflecting on how that last boycott turned out?
I'm circulating that.
Thank you R131.
- Some idiot on this thread is trying to claim that gay athletes won't be allowed to enter Russia. That is absolute bull and only a moron would believe it. And, if Russia was indeed planning to ban athletes from participating in the Olympics then the IOC would strip them of the Games immediately and the participating countries would pull out, especially those whose athletes were being banned.
R131/r132, please, in this case, as far as gay rights go, the US is much, much better than in Russia, where the situation is positively dire, so your anti-American diatribe is not entirely appropriate. Your no different from the moron who believes that Russia is banning gay athletes, two sides of the same coin.
- Howard said he would never be friends with a gay man outside of the house because they are not of God's plan. Candice said the queer agenda is obnoxious.
Gay people are nature's plan. We are like the worker bees that keep the families and society running without using up too many resources.
And we keep the honey flowing.
- R138, "please", no.
The situation is much worse on the AFGHANISTAN border where the US has been dropping drones than they are in Russia. Just not targeted at gay people. Of course it's better in the US where gay people feel safe and don't think about Afghanistan on a daily basis.
The point, since you can't seem to get it, is that if we're talking about boycotts, the FIRST thing you should do is ask, do they work? When did we do this last?
The US did a boycott in 1980 against Moscow, no less, to stand up for Afghanistan, where it now has a record of killing innocent people, as well as people on the other side of the Afghan border in Pakistan.
You should not only see that the boycott was a failure, but should turn your energy to your own country's killings in other countries.
- precisely R141.
The question is do boycotts HELP the lives of the people boycotters claim to care about.
If you ask Afghanis about the effect of the last boycott against Moscow, they would probably say it did not improve their lives.
So what is the scenario for a boycott against Russia to help the LGBT population there? Will the law be repealed before or after the Olympics? Unlikely. Will gay people in Russia be blamed for any effects of the boycott? Probably by the same people beating them now.
The lives of LGBT people in Russia, as has been said, are getting more attention because Russia's law might affect world athletes.
Without the Olympics, people would be thinking about them
as much as they think about US drone victims in Afghanistan.
- I agree the economic impact of this boycott will likely be minimal; however, if it gets publicity and puts Putin on the defensive, that's a good thing.
I was pleased to see some US corporations like Coke pulling back their support for the Sochi games. That should get their attention. The Olympics gives us levarage we would not otherwise have, and we should use it for all it's worth.
- It's only getting attention because the world is going to Sochi. When the US boycotted in 1980, coverage of Moscow (and Afghanistan) remained minimal because sponsors didn't support games without American athletes.
And Coca-Cola has only been petitioned. So far, it has made a statement with no stand on the games.
- [quote]Some idiot on this thread is trying to claim that gay athletes won't be allowed to enter Russia. That is absolute bull and only a moron would believe it.
Meanwhile, the moron at R138 is unable to comprehend the following:
[italic]A Russian lawmaker has said the ‘gay propaganda’ law will remain enforced during the Sochi Winter Olympic Games in 2014.
Vitaly Milonov, co-sponsor of the ‘non-traditional relationships’ bill, said the government cannot decide when to selectively enforce the law.
It comes as the International Olympic Committee said the Russian government had ‘assured’ them all athletes and spectators will be safe from arrest.
Milonov said: "I have not heard any comments from the government of the Russian Federation but I know it is acting in accordance with Russian law.
"If a law has been approved by the federal legislature and signed by the president, then the government has no right to suspend it. It doesn’t have the authority."[/italic]
- It's massively unlikely that the games will be boycotted by the U.S. or any other gay-friendly nation, or that the IOC will move the games.
So what needs to happen:
Putting pressure on those gay-friendly governments to denounce the laws and support the rights of LGBT citizens around the world.
Putting pressure on the media outlets (such as NBC in the U.S.) that are broadcasting the games to include coverage of this issue.
Putting pressure on sponsors of the games and on companies doing business (such as Coca-Cola, McDonalds, etc.) in Russia to re-confirm their support of their LGBT employees and customers.
Putting pressure on gay athletes and their straight allies to speak up on the issue and make every effort to demonstrate, in whatever way they can, against these laws, even at the risk of being arrested.
The last scenario, in particular, would be big news -- an athlete being arrested and jailed during the games for holding his boyfriend's hand or holding up a rainbow flag would make the front pages around the world and, honestly, probably do more for the cause than a boycott of the games would do.
- Hey, twat at r141, I'm neither American nor advocating a boycott of the Russian Winter Olympics.
I do think there is something freaking weird, however, about a thread on the situation of gays in Russia and the possible treatment of gay athletes by the Russian authorities turning into some diatribe against the US, in a bizarre effort to impute some kind of equivalence between Russia and the US. No, the US is nothing like Russia as regards gay rights. Russia is freaking horrific on gay rights and it doesn't fucking matter what happened at the 1980 Olympics.
You do realise that the Soviet Union and a bunch of other commie countries (which were forced by the USSR) boycotted the 1984 LA Olympics, don't you?
- [quote]You do realise that the Soviet Union and a bunch of other commie countries (which were forced by the USSR) boycotted the 1984 LA Olympics, don't you?
And we have that boycott to thank for the fame of that cunt Mary Lou Retton.
- R147, forgive me for thinking you're an American, though you wrote about how much better things were in the US, were upset about anti-Americanism, and, frankly, reasoned liked an American.
How you can think it's "freaking weird" to bring the situation up is bizarre, since R142 laid it out for you, if I didn't make it clear.
It's not about a diatribe against the US.
It's relevant because we're talking about boycotting to make a difference, when the country that led the last boycott against Russia through the Olympics not only made things worse, but is still killing innocent people there.
And that, my non-American friend (wherever you are), is relevant to any discussion about caring about the rights of LGBT Russians, because you can't be for human rights in one area and not give a shit about innocent people being killed elsewhere, especially in a nation that was supposed to be helped by a boycott of the Olympics in Moscow.
You do understand this thread is about the Olympic Games being held in Russia and what happens after boycotts against Moscow using the Olympic Games as a weapon.
What can you not follow?
- Uh, R145, read your own quote. It says nothing about gay athletes being barred from entry.
The latest news at the link at R111 makes it clear: the same official you're quoting says gay athletes WILL be allowed in and allowed to compete.
You really are behind.
- Is Putin a big closet case? Yes, I think he has to be.
- I'd prefer no one watched.
But you need to be careful about what other action you want to take - unless you are willing to make some serious changes in your own lifestyle.
How much of your day to day life depends on oil from Middle Eastern countries that have just as bad if not a worse line on gay men and women?
Check where your clothes and furniture comes from? How much is made by slave labor? How much comes from countries that have just as bad a line of gays as Russia?
After you have cleaned up your own life - then start demanding some action that will not directly impact you.
- r147 this is the SECOND time you have made the argument that this is about comparing the US and Russian on gay rights.
You seem to be aware of the boycotts in the 1980s.
Do you know why there was a boycott against the Soviets in 1980? Do you know what country the boycotting nations said they were doing it for?
The comparison is the people boycotters want to protect - gay people in Russia now, the people affected by the invasion of Afghanistan then.
Why on earth would you think the USA's record on gay rights has anything to
do with this? THAT is "fucking weird".
- Wow, how fucking stupid is r145?! Idiot, the "gay propaganda law" isn't about banning gays from entering the country, it's about banning gays from "being gay" in public.
R149, I don't know how you can claim to know how I "reasoned" since you didn't even read my previous posts properly and completely misunderstood my position on a boycott.
Yes, I do care about people being killed in various parts of the world but I also have the ability to think about issues on their own terms. For example, criticising the treatment of gays in Russia doesn't mean I have to immediately follow that up with "but America is killing babies in Afghanistan!" It is possible to discuss the issue of gays in Russia without having to resort to balancing out our "value system" by throwing a criticism of the US in somewhere. It's called rational, organised thought and the ability to assess and evaluate and judge situations on their own merits, something quite important for an ordered, civilised society.
- It's really weird how r149 and r153 seem to be in tune with each other (thanks troll-dar). One sends in a post and then the other one jumps in, almost immediately, to back it up.
In the latest post, r153 has indeed proved that he is freaking weird.
P.S. R153, if you want to put forward a good argument against someone, you need to read what they've written and quote it properly first.
- Openly gay Canadian gymnast writes OP-Ed piece at link below
Olympic boycott isn’t the answer to Russia’s anti-gay policies
To take away athletes’ earned right to compete would be destructive.
- Kris Burley in action
What a body
Wonder who his lucky bf is?
- r156, I don't know who R153 is other than someone who seems to agree with me, and I don't know who you are either.
But what we both seem to see is that you clearly do not see why the drones in Afghanistan is a relevant issue.
It has nothing to do with Americans killing babies to make a bad argument.
As I said, and as other apparently agree with me, it's about the issue of whether boycotts against the USSR/Russia help the people boycotters want to help.
And the boycott in Afghanistan, as has been explained to you several times now, did not help the Afghani people.
It is beyond ironic that the country that led the last boycott against the USSR is using drones in Afghanistan. It's not about "killing babies" -- it's about the country that led the boycott against the USSR to help Afghanistan being HATED by many in that country for what it has done since.
If you don't get why that's relevant to the US boycott in 1980, you are only right about one thing -- that you don't get what this thread is about.
- R155, I'm another person who thinks R131 is correct.
And I can't believe you wrote "it doesn't fucking matter what happened at the 1980 Olympics" at R147 (see troll-dar works on you, too.).
Of course it matters. People are calling for a boycott of the Olympics, and that's the only other time it happened really to make a point about freedom.
How else can you know if boycotts work if you don't look at what happened the only time it's been done for human rights?
- The Russians aren't really going to be arresting athletes or attendees at the Olympics. Can you imagine the international uproar that would cause?
- Oh R155, you want me to quote you?
Here you are at R138: "in this case, as far as gay rights go, the US is much, much better than in Russia, where the situation is positively dire"
And here you are at R147: "against the US, in a bizarre effort to impute some kind of equivalence between Russia and the US. No, the US is nothing like Russia as regards gay rights. Russia is freaking horrific on gay rights and it doesn't fucking matter what happened at the 1980 Olympics."
For reasons only you know, you seem to think the issue people have with the US is about gay rights. And the fact that you keep saying what happens in Afghanistan makes it pretty clear you know nothing about US boycotts of the Olympics, which is what Dan Savage and other Americans have called for.
You're ignorant, which is why you think people talking about the effectiveness of Olympic boycotts against Russia are weird and that you know how to make arguments.
- [bold]Gay Olympic hopeful plans to defy anti-gay Russian laws[/bold]
Openly gay speed skater Blake Skjellerup, who is hoping to represent New Zealand at the 2014 Winter Olympics in Sochi, Russia, said Wednesday that he is unwilling to play down his sexuality in light of Russia's anti-gay laws.
"I'm going to do my best to be in Russia," Skjellerup told CBSNews.com. "If I'm stopped at the border, I'm stopped at the border. My presence there is going to be important for me and important for the community and I guess we're just going to have to wait and see."
If he makes the 2014 games, which take place in February, Skjellerup is vowing to wear a gay pride pin from the 2012 Olympic games while in Sochi - despite the passage of a law last month banning "propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations," which would seem to include public displays of affection by same-sex partners and statements in support of gay rights. According to Pravda, the law allows for the deportation of foreign nationals for what is deemed to be homosexual propaganda. The Associated Press reported that under the law, foreign nationals could be detained for 15 days before deportation.
Skjellerup competed at the 2010 Olympic games and has won six national titles in New Zealand. He said his message to Russian President Vladimir Putin, who signed the law, "would be know me before you judge me, and love is love, and I don't think anybody should be persecuted."
Last Friday, the International Olympic Committee said in a statement that it "has received assurances from the highest level of government in Russia that the legislation will not affect those attending or taking part in the Games." The IOC added that it was unclear "whether and how [the legislation] will be implemented, particularly as regards the Games in Sochi."
This week, however, a Russian lawmaker said the law will be enforced at the Games. In comments to Interfax that were translated by Gay Star News, Vitaly Milonov, who co-sponsored the bill, said that "[i]f a law has been approved by the federal legislature and signed by the president, then the government has no right to suspend it. It doesn't have the authority." And on Thursday, Russian Sports Minister Vitaly Mutko said the law would be enforced during the Games.
"An athlete of nontraditional sexual orientation isn't banned from coming to Sochi," he told Russian state news agency RIA Novosti, as reported by the Associated Press. "But if he goes out into the streets and starts to propagandize, then of course he will be held accountable."
The anti-gay laws have led some to call for a boycott of the Games, something Skjellerup strongly opposes. (There have also been calls to boycott Russian vodka, with many gay bars joining the boycott.)
"I and the other athletes have worked very, very hard and to have that taken away from you would be truly devastating," Skjellerup said, adding that his presence and that of other gay and pro-gay athletes in Russia would be far more valuable.
Russia has seen an outbreak of violence against gay rights advocates, with LGBT supporters facing beatings from anti-gay protesters. Violence against gay Russians has been a longstanding issue, and at least two murders seemingly motivated by anti-gay sentiment taking place this year.
The U.S. Olympic committee did not respond to a request for comment over whether it will provide guidance for athletes or tourists traveling to Sochi concerning the laws. Asked what he would tell gay tourists who plan to travel to the Games, Skjellerup said that "[i]f you feel that your security and your security is threatened, that's the most important thing to ensure that you're safe." In a letter obtained by Buzzfeed and dated July 25, U.S Olympic Committee CEO Scott Blackmun wrote that the USOC is "engaged in active discussions with the International Olympic Committee and the U.S. State Department" concerning Americans' safety while in Russia for the Olympics.
- On Thursday, Russian Sports Minister Vitaly Mutko said the anti gay law would be enforced during the Games.
"An athlete of nontraditional sexual orientation isn't banned from coming to Sochi," he told Russian state news agency RIA Novosti, as reported by the Associated Press. "But if he goes out into the streets and starts to propagandize, then of course he will be held accountable."
- So r158, you agree with r131 that there should be no boycott of the Russian Olympics? Because that's the only point on which I agree with that idiot.
Oh, and check troll-dar and you will find that I wrote "fucking matter", but I did not write "fucking weird", as r153 tried to claim I did.
R161, do you have a problem with basic understanding? When I wrote "in this case, as far as gay rights go, the US is much, much better than in Russia, where the situation is positively dire" I was countering your efforts to equate Russia with the US, as though what we should be doing in a discussion on the oppression of gays in Russia is criticising the US.
But, seriously, if you don't think that the position of gays in the US is any better than in Russia, then you're an idiot.
Beyond that, whatever you're trying to say at r161 makes no sense, and it's not that I have a problem comprehending, it's that it makes no sense.
R163, you seem to be contradicting what you wrote at r145: gays aren't being barred from entering Russia.
- Russia is not ready for the fabulousness. Fuck 'em. They won't do shit to gay people. Putin made a big mistake announcing his stupid law after the whole photo scandal of the parade people all beaten and bloody. But then, look at France of all places. The homophobia there because of gay marriage. America is leading the charge on the issue. Putin needs to listen to his people, retire, so he can be free to take selfies of himself riding horses without his shirt and tweet.
- R164, both 163 and 145 are obvious quotes from news stories from Russia. If you're upset about the ideas contradicting from story to story, please get on your phone to Moscow and get them straightened out.
- The quotations from the news items at r145 and r163 are correct - and they quite clearly do not state that Russia will bar gay athletes from participating in the Olympics. That was my point from the very beginning.
- Well done Canada!
John Baird blasts 'hateful' Russian anti-gay law
Foreign minister says Ottawa has raised concerns privately before and after signing of law
The Canadian Press Posted: Aug 1, 2013 2:45 PM ET Last Updated: Aug 1, 2013 3:47 PM ET
Foreign Affairs Minister John Baird denounced Russia's controversial new anti-gay law as hateful Thursday, saying it could incite violence.
In an exclusive interview with The Canadian Press, Baird described how Canada has worked behind the scenes to persuade Russia not to follow through with the law.
[Read more at link]
Baird outlined the details of eight meetings, dating back to January, during which Canadian officials pushed the issue with the Russians, before and after President Vladimir Putin signed the controversial bill into law in June.
- Vlad the Enforcer
- The are symbolically pouring Stoli Vodka down the drain in West Hollywood either last night or tonight. The famous premium vodka is not made in Russia although the ingredients are.
I think all gay bars are planning to not sell this brand due to the Russian stance on being gay out and proud.
- Russian models (the one on the right is openly gay model Kirill Dowidoff) in a sweet advertisement for ES Underwear's Russian stores.
Will they be arrested?
- I don't believe that all of the famed Russian ballet dancers and ice skaters are straight, nor are there very talented coaches. There's also the Russian circus people. What is happening to them?
- If there is no boycott and the OG pushes through, it's pretty much expected that gay athletes and allies will make a pointed stand or statement on several occasions within the event proper. This will be inflammatory. I do worry how the Russians will deal with this, both gov't and spectators. Short of a gag order, I can't imagine the Russian govt just gamely sitting on their thumbs as their laws are "challenged" blatantly in public; Russian spectators are not exactly shy at displaying their displeasure/hatred as demonstrated by their banana throwing antics in the past.
- I'm not surprised that the U.S. is completely unconcerned about this issue but is there no country in Europe with some balls? Is nobody making a stink about this?
- There are enough Out athletes who could influence the IOC.
The EU should care.
- Are the Russians living in West Hollywood generally friendly toward gay men and women?
- I would love to know if Rich Russian Lady is getting attitude and shade from shopgays at Bloomingdale's and Macy*s.
- [quote]We will arrest gay athletes, tourists at Olympic Games.
There goes the majority of the male figure skaters...
In all seriousness, this is sick. Whose stupid ass idea was it to have the winter Olympics in that shithole known as Russia?
- r174 perhaps the silence is tied to the request for Snowden's extradition?
- Noted psychopath Bryan Fischer thinks the LGBT community should back the Russian anti-gay laws as a way of celebrating diversity.
- This country is no democracy, it's far away from that. There should be Olympic games only in democrazy countries. Why choose they Russia? Why did the choose China? That is against the Olympic Spirit! It's all about money and Connection. Shame on you you did that!
- Fuck Russia, fuck it right in the ass.
- So will all the sequins and glitter on the men's figure-skating costumes be replaced with fur?
Bravo to Skjellerup! Wish him all the best. What a courageous guy.
- Does anyone think that creating a decorative piece of jewelry, for solidarity, will help raise awareness? It would raise some funds, and if it
was sold world-wide, and worn by supporters, more would be aware and possibly take corrective action.
- To be honest, the gay-right-thing is just one problem in Russia!
Nobody will boycott them, political upsets, economic and diplomatic ties and money. That is all about! Horrible things happens on this earth and nobody helps really, just take a look to Syria!
- Logo for Russian Olympics
- Amsterdam Mayor Eberhard van der Laan spoke to gay rights supporters who protested in Amsterdam's largest square Sunday, carrying signs, singing songs and chanting slogans to condemn the Russian government's homosexuality policies.
The mayor told the crowd he hoped the protest would send the message to Moscow that "love is not propaganda."
Afterward in an interview with The Associated Press, he said the city "is proud of its homosexual community and they have the right to support from government" — not persecution. Amsterdam has a long history of tolerance of gay rights, including performing the first gay marriages in 2001.
Van der Laan said he didn't know whether the message would reach Moscow, but the protest was "a matter of principle."
"You have to say something at any rate," he said. He called on the Dutch government to submit a complaint to the European Court of Human Rights.
- What about that dykey sports caster who does the NBC late night show?
- Amsterdam Mayor Eberhard van der Laan declined to meet with Putin when he visited the Netherlands in March, sending lesbian councilwoman Carolien Gehrels in his place and flying a rainbow flag over city hall.
During the Putin visit, the city was filled with rainbow flags and bunting.
- Well, bitches, I sure did my piece this week! I told Russia to go to hell!
Now what are the rest of you going to do?
- Share the Sochi logo with friends.
- Amsterdam's gay rights protest against Russia on Sunday.
- Olympic partners
- On top of all the negative publicity they're already getting, they may not have enough decent snow for use in the winter games.
They have tons of snow from last winter in storage since they think there may not be enough to support the games this year. They also have the world's biggest snow-making machines.
It would be great if those machines met with some serious problems.
- ST PETERSBURG, Russia --- Police seized a painting of Russia's president and prime minister in women's underwear from a gallery in St Petersburg, saying the satirical display had broken unspecified laws.
The officers also removed a picture of the head of the Russian Orthodox Church, his torso covered in tattoos, and two others poking fun at lawmakers who have backed legislation banning so-called gay propaganda, gallery staff said.
The police service said it had taken paintings from the "Museum of Power" gallery - based in two rooms of a flat - late on Monday after receiving reports they were illegal.
It gave no further detail but Russia does have a law against insulting authorities - an offence that carries a maximum one-year prison term.
One painting showed president Vladimir Putin wearing a tight-fitting slip and brushing the hair of Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev, who is wearing knickers and a bra.
St Petersburg deputy Vitaly Mironov, whose face was combined with the gay rights movement's rainbow flag in one of the paintings, told Reuters the images were inappropriate and "of a distinctly pornographic character".
St Petersburg, which next week hosts world leaders at a G20 summit, was one of the first Russian cities to introduce a law banning the spread of "gay propaganda".
- Demonstrators hold up signs, including one of Russia's President Vladimir Putin, during a protest against Russia's new anti-gay propaganda law, outside Downing Street in central London.
- A fourth painting depicting the head of the Russian Orthodox Church adorned with tattoos was also confiscated from the museum in St Petersburg.
- Isn't Putin a closet case - he loves posing sweating with his shirt off. Homoerotic (if he were goodlooking and built, which he thinks he is!)