Don Lemon doubles down: ‘I’m gonna get the Uncle Tom award’
CNN anchor Don Lemon backed up his criticisms of the African-American community on Sunday, telling guest LZ Granderson he was reclaiming the label of “Uncle Tom,” classically used to describe a Black man who is subservient to whites.
“I’m taking that word back,” Lemon said to Granderson. “I’m being called an ‘Uncle Tom’ so much, I’m taking that word back. I’m gonna get the ‘Uncle Tom’ award.”
Lemon made the remarks in an allusion to the online criticism he drew for his Saturday commentary saying Fox News anchor Bill O’Reilly “doesn’t go far enough” in chiding African-Americans, before suggesting that young Black males should stop wearing sagging pants.
“What is wrong with telling people to dress appropriately?” Lemon asked Granderson and conservative commentator Ana Navarro on Sunday. “These are things that I said [Saturday] that my mom taught me in kindergarten, that parents tell their kids in kindergarten. Dress nicely, speak well, speak appropriately.”
Lemon’s commentary was derided across social media, with the mocking #DonLemonLogic gaining traction. Lemon also addressed the controversy on Twitter, writing that it was not about racism, but “about bettering oneself in spite of. ie, abused woman at some point has to leave abuser.”
Lemon also re-posted an encouraging message from Fox News host Geraldo Rivera, who was himself derided in March 2012 for blaming the shooting death of 17-year-old Trayvon Martin on his choice to wear a hooded sweatshirt the night he was pursued, shot and killed by former neighborhood watch captain George Zimmerman. Zimmerman was acquitted of second-degree murder charges on July 13, 2013.
“I was amazed when I retweeted it that I got so much Twitter hate,” Navarro told Lemon about the furor surrounding his remarks on Saturday. “There’s people who call you in to schools, Don, and call you in to go speak to youth, and to groups, and tell them how you succeed. We are here on this panel — three minorities, two African-Americans, one Latino — who have succeeded. There’s advice to be given. Success is not going to be reached by not speaking English correctly, though I do have an accent and I do butcher it now and then.”
Lemon also cited his own past coverage of the Zimmerman trial, as well as a stand-alone special program he hosted concerning the use of the “N-word” in American culture, and alluding to his July 20 argument with conservative Ben Ferguson regarding white privilege.
“Did I not have those conversations on the air about privilege and about racism and about profiling and about having been profiled?” Lemon asked his guests.
“You absolutely did,” Navarro affirmed, before misidentifying who the defendant was in that trial. “I think the Trayvon Martin trial is an opportunity for us to have the deep discussions we need to have. Let’s not talk about each other, let’s talk to each other and also within our own groups.”
Granderson told Lemon that, while has taught his son that the use of terms like the “N-word” had to be viewed through different contexts, he did not pretend that there were not ramifications to using it in a social setting.
“You’re not gonna get hired for a high-power position job, you likely are not gonna be accepted at some prestigious university,” Granderson said. “I severely doubt you’d be able to get a decent date with anyone worth loving if you spend your entire time dropping the ‘N-word’ and you can’t keep your hands up.”
Watch the discussion, posted on YouTube by user “Den Havoc” on Sunday, below.
Don was on The View this morning and they discussed this. He wasn't a guest, he was sitting in the audience, but they spent about 5 minutes on him and his comments.
Guest host Ana Navarro initially introduced Isaiah Thomas and his wife and then introduced Don with another guy as though they are also a couple. Sounded like she said the other guy's name is David Fuenton, but since it’s a name I’m not familiar with it was hard to tell if that’s what she really said. Also the camera didn’t really seem too interested in including the guy sitting next to Don in the shot – not like Isaiah Thomas’ wife.
Does Don have a white (or Caucasian-looking) boyfriend? I couldn’t find anything online about him dating.
The attached clip does not have Ana introducing Don and the other dude. It cuts out the Isaiah Thomas stuff and picks up with discussing Don’s controversial comments.
Don is SO thrilled to be getting all this attention for his stupid comments. He's too dumb to handle such a complex problem and should just shut up before he embarrasses himself further. I bet his bf is white because he sure says things that white folks love to hear about blacks. As if not wearing sagging pants and saying the N-word would end racism and somehow better the predicament of blacks. He is an egotistical idiot.
So in Don Lemon you have a gay black man who only dates white men talking to LZ Granderson who is a gay man that's married to a white man and these guys are discussing the best way for black men to appeal to or be accepted by majority(read white) culture.
I'm sorry guys but if I'm going to listen to black people on this subject, I'm going to listen to ones who actually like black people.
I thought his comments were 100% spot-on..
Black people have been brain washed in this country to hate themselves. Black gay men in particular seem to really be affected. I don't know of any famous gay black celebrities who actually date other black men.
You always see famous black gay men with a white partner(not that there is anything wrong with that)who's not famous but you never see famous white celebrities with black partners.
It's clearly self loathing at work.
Don went after the gay community when he came out, stating that it was theist homophobic community in the country, and that's part of the reason is stayed in the closet for all those years.
Don Lemon, please go back in the closet.
I hate that the dominant image of black people is the thug, and that that cannot be questioned out of fears of "self-loathing" or "racism."
It brings down people and denies/silences the many types of different, intelligent, vibrant people. And as thugs are celebrated, it creates more thugs. That is the thing to be.
Frankly, it all benefits the 1% to have illiterate thugs celebrated. They are destructive to others, and their community. And they are self-destructive. They pose no threat whatsoever to the 1%.
I am taking back "Elders of Zion".
Paunchy old guys sitting in the schvitz who secretly manipulate the world economy.
They're all in on it, especially that Morrie guy.
Don thinks if he continues to lick white ass he'll keep his job as the token on CNN. Coming out of the closet kept his mediocre ass from being fired. I'm just curious how he got his job on CNN because theres nothing special about him. Anyone can read a teleprompter. He is basically the anchor version of Barack Obama. No matter how much ass Don kisses, the albino will always get the top jobs.
Ana Navarro makes my skin crawl. I cannot stand when Bill Maher has this airhead on his show. I noticed when most Cosnervatives are asked a basic question, they always give a convoluted answer which usually doesn't answer the inital question.
Is Navarro supposed to represent the Conservative end of the Hispanic community? Why are most Conservative spokespeople so annoying and downright stupid? Navarro, SE Cupp, these are just two examples of grating annoying Conservative airheads, who babble on and say absolutely nothing.
I won't even get into Navarro's annoying heavily accented English. If she's so intelligent, and wanted to be in the public eye, shouldn't learning to speak unaccented English been on her priority list while she was in high school and college?
Please don't say as an American, that I probably don't speak a second language, I actually speak four languages.
If you are going to live in the US and want to work in a field where people need to understand what you are saying, learn to speak unaccented English!
"Thug" is the new n-word.
I think comments that demonize Lemon or discount some pretty valid points are completely delusional. He is correct. Sorry. You stand a better chance of being hired if you speak correct English. You stand a better chance of being hired if you dress appropriately. This goes for people of all races and backgrounds. Around 16 I realized that I had a very thick Philly accent and a speaking style that was laden with slang. While I am not so hard on myself when in the company of friends and family, I code switch when I am with clients or interviewing. It is a mechanism one must use when they desire to be taken seriously and it transcends race. Lemon was clearly speaking of the group he identifies with, as I would of lower/ working class inner city white folks.
R1, I don't know if Lemon is partnered up, but he was wearing a gold band on his left hand, fourth finger, in that clip.
I'm black and I really don't understand what he said that was so wrong. I don't think sagging and wearing a hoodie should get you shot, but if you want to get somewhere in life, your appearance and as my mother used to say, "speaking like you've got some sense" will open a hell of a lot more doors that may have been shut to you.
He has undoubtedly faced racism and homophobia in his life. For any white person to DARE to criticize him or call him a "Tom" is the height of racism. You have no right to judge Don for his opinions, he is the one who is black and has the right to say any fucking thing he wants without being second guessed or judged by some white guy who has no clue. The PC-Queens on this thread are the most despicable type of racists, those who will denigrate a black man because his views aren't "black enough" for what they've been engineered to believe (because they sure as hell haven't lived it). Just incredible.
Ebonics is a legitimate dialect. It's disgusting that some black people are advocating the eradication of their native tongue. As far as the clothing, I make the same argument that feminists make about the justification of raping a woman based on attire. This is not a black problem, folks. It's a racist white problem. Don Lemon acts like it's still the era of Jackie Robinson, Martin Luther King Jr. and Sidney Poitier and yet did this keep any of them from being shot down literally or figuratively?
It's the blacks who are calling him a Tom, r16. You might want to rethink your little persecution complex tirade on that point.
Oh come off it, R17. Ebonics is a contemporary concept of a language - hardly a "native tongue." The roots of it are in the poor education that Blacks got for so many decades (and continue to get in many areas even today). It's no more a legitmate dialect than Southern white slang or any other kind of poor English due to lack of education, intellectual laziness, or a delusional attempt to at P.C.
Bad English is bad English. Period.
Lemon is saying many of the same things that Bill Cosby said several years ago.
What's really at stake here is money. Thug culture is very profitable for quite a few people - more than a few of them white. And the foundation of thug culture is, I think, generally destructive (crime, drugs, misogyny, homophobia, hyper-masculinity) though it does share a desperate desire for riches that crosses all ethnic boundaries.
Correction: "...a delusional attempt at P.C."
My bad English (or maybe a legitimate dialect??).
So a guy trying to be a positive influence and do what is best for young black guys is a racist and self-loathing?
This is EXACTLY what he's talking about - the celebration of ignorance and prison culture in the black community.
Sometimes I think the establishment trashes people like Lemon because they want to keep black people in a permanent state of subservience. The white owners of the media encourage thuggish behavior as "cool" knowing in the long run it will keep blacks from truly finding their voice and gaining power as a community. They attack people like Lemon who see through their bullshit and raise up clowns like 50 Cent, P Diddy and Kanye and Jay Z.
There are plenty of white thugs and Latino thugs, too, R12. If the thugs (all homophobic, by the way) cannot be criticized then society has really fallen. It will affect ordinary people the most.
That is totally it, R22
If your everyday white and your everyday black (for lack of better terminology, 99%ers) weren't constantly baited to be at odds with one another, oh dear god, would the 1%ers be in trouble. The powerful create dissention between us because if we were on the same page, there would be nowhere for them to hide.
It is not white, black and brown. It is the 1% and then everyone else.
[quote] Don went after the gay community when he came out, stating that it was theist homophobic community in the country
Why does race always have to be brought up into every sociological conversation in this blasted country? I'm so damn tired of it! The more we focus on our differences, the less likely we'll ever be able to achieve racial harmony, which actually is robbing the younger generations of realizing MLK's dream.
I'm really disappointed in Don Lemon on this. I thought he was smarter than this, but apparently he's clueless and out of touch.
R18, Fuck you on your obfuscation. You know good and christing well that I was referring to the DL posters on this thread that are white and yet have the gall to condemn a black man for his views.
I don't really dispute what he said as far it applies to individuals, but I do think there is some wishful and facile thinking going on.
Don Lemon is a fucking embarrassment to black people everywhere. I would love for someone like Melissa Harris-Perry to put him on blast for his Uncle Tomery.
What Don Lemon is saying is true. He was just stating 5 simple things that might make a difference in some black people's lives. And one of the major ones he site was the 72% illegitimate birthrate of African Americans--a true stat by the way.
Inevitably whenever I see the local news about another Chicago murder whether about the victim or perpetrator what you'll always see is a group of women & mothers & grandmothers. Some of the grandmothers are in their 30's. Their stories are always similar--they're working two jobs to support their kids and their kids are running around unsupervised. So the kids join gangs, sell drugs and hang out with the wrong crowd.
And yes this is about poverty but it's also about an attitude that says it's ok to have your first child at 14 and your second and third child from someone else and to not expect the fathers to be around or to help out. He's asking for that attitude to change & for people to have the amount of kids they can afford to raise because children exacerbates poverty.
Lemon's other points are equally valid. Instead of just dismissing it out of hand maybe some of the black leaders should consider preaching it more. Look how much energy the black preachers spent in Illinois trying to stop gay marriage & acting like it's the downfall of civilization. These preachers & leaders obviously have some misplaced priorities and need to start facing up to what's really wrong in the community.
Glad "Uncle Tom" is being taken back. Stowe's "Uncle Tom" self-sacrifices. Yes, he's a black man who self-sacrifices for family, for children, for a particularly sense of honor suited to their individual late 18th-mid19th Century circumstances. An example of a tradition of heroic honor and altruism in the 19th Century novel. He shares this with people like Dumas's Marguerite Gautier, Hugo's Jean Val Jean, Dickens's Sydney Carton, Austen's Anne Elliott and Elinore Dashwood, Charlotte Bronte's Jane Eyre and Tolstoy's Pierre Bolkonsky.
To argue that because, unlike other 19th century altruistic protagonists, he's a black man and a slave, and, therefore, does not represent the same heroism and humanity as other 19th century altruistic protagonists; to hold that his self-sacrifice simplistically represents acquiescence to being owned, to being dehumanized, is, ironically to dehumanize him and hold him out to be less than his fictional colleagues in journeys of putting themselves last. He's not less than them. He's equally heroic and inspiring.
Don is the type of black man who pleases whites by saying things they like to hear. Hope his stupidity pays off because his employment options just got narrowed down to CNN and FOX News (they'd love to have him now). MSNBC won't touch him with a ten foot pole.
CNN was the most guilty of all the media outlets for trying to incite riots by scaring the shit out of white people and promoting the "thug" image of Treyvon Martin and the "crazy redneck" image of Zimmerman.
Shame on CNN, and Lemon knows that he must kiss their racist, fear-mongering ass to keep his job.
People like R34 are useless to the black community. It does no good to tell people that oh you're in this position because you're poor and racist and the world is against you so just wait until some legislation gets passed and then maybe you'll get somewhere in life. That's just a lot of bullshit.
There are black people from other countries like Jamaica, Africa and even Haiti that are doing a lot better than African Americans in this country. The difference is that they don't have this attitude of waiting until the world changes before doing something. Don Lemon is suggesting some really minor adjustments in attitude and clothing might be helpful. He's not suggesting it'll change everything but what might be a start.
correction meant to write: poor and the world is racist against you.
"It's no more a legitmate dialect than Southern white slang or any other kind of poor English due to lack of education, intellectual laziness, or a delusional attempt to at P.C."
You're wrong. Deep Appalachian Southern White "slang" is not only a legitimate dialect, it is probably the most authentic form of English in the world, being far more like the English spoken in 14th Century England than the English spoken today anywhere else.
But apart from that, you're premise as to what is a legitimate dialect and what is not is deeply flawed in elitism. Biased in its classism, at the same time you show a complete ignorance of classicism when it comes to the English language.
R38 I think the bottom line is no one who speaks in Ebonics is going to get hired to do anything but flip burgers, and maybe not even that.
It's the same thing with women dressing extremely scantily clad, sort of cartoon prostitute/ho style. You don't want to attack women, but honestly that type of dress is not helping them in life. And it shows a lack of liberation - it does not that they are liberated. Plus it does not look good.
It's tricky to talk about things when a group has faced criticism, but the roles/and looks that people take on can hurt them/limit them in life. I think that is all he is trying to say.
Don is of course correct. But you must listen to what he doesn't say as much as what he does say. He doesn't mention institutionalized racism, white flight, an inhumane drug policy, international economic forces, and the prison-industrial complex (among other things) as leading to the struggles of the black community in America. He places the blame squarely on black people, offering the most banal advice. He is correct: blacks (heck, everyone) should focus on doing better in school. Blacks and liberals are up in arms about his remarks not because we necessarily love baggy pants or not knowing how to add, but because he reduces the complex problem of race in America to something that white conservatives can nod their heads to while they continue to implement policies that are the real reason for the lion's share of problems that the black community faces.
[quote]He doesn't mention institutionalized racism, white flight, an inhumane drug policy, international economic forces, and the prison-industrial complex (among other things) as leading to the struggles of the black community in America. He places the blame squarely on black people, offering the most banal advice.
You can't mention all of these things and discuss them EVERY SINGLE TIME you want to talk about race. Something is ALWAYS going to be left out, but that doesn't invalidate what he said.
R42, I don't know why these things can't be discussed every single time. Every single time race is mentioned, small potatoes like "saggy pants" are also mentioned simultaneously. You cannot adequately analyze the problem of race without mentioning the institutions that construct "race" as a social condition. The point is not to blame whites for racism, or to absolve blacks of not truly organizing and fighting for empowerment, it is to carefully analyze the problem and allow for the intellectual bedrock that will allow black people to dismantle a system that has not worked in their favor.
I get so frustrated with other black people who believe that this shouldn't be discussed in public, as if white people don't talk about it or think it. Forget the sagging pants. Why is it okay for a 14 year old girl to have a kid? Why is it okay to have 6 kids by 6 different men by the time you are 22? Why is it okay to father children without consequences? Why is studying and doing well in school considered acting white? Why don't we get just as pissed off about this as we do about Paula Deen? It makes no fucking sense.
Very few people think those things are okay. They just get mad that public discourse is dominated by rants against teenage pregnancy and failing schools in black communities. These are BAD things, but even if these problems are solved or mitigated in some fashion, many other problems still exist and are institutional in nature. Just look at President Obama: he is successful, intelligent, but BLACK so he is subjected to the outright racism of birtherism and the more subtle racism of being called the "food stamp" president. Ending the problems of teenage pregnancy and failing schools is not a panacea and the obsessive focus on these problems serves to demean black people and is incredibly patronizing.
Don Lemon tries to identify with too many groups. He should realize by now that people are not going to like him for two reasons, his race and his sexuality, he should forget about what criticisms he gets and just shut up and report. I swear he wishes he was a bigger name in the news business.
Don Lemon is right and he's doing black people a favor by telling them the truth about how thuggish ways will only further marginalize them. That is not self-loathing. The label self-loathing is thrown about by people who are lazy, people who prefer to be anti-social and unsuccessful. Gay people use the same nonsense to attack anyone who is non-stereotypical and tells others that they too can be non-stereotypical. The message of self-improvement though hard work is rejected by some because they are lazy.
As for CNN, all the media covered up the fact that Trayvon was a homophobic thug. Especially people discussing it on DL.
Last I checked Martin Luther King Jr. spoke well. He dressed well. He was even deferential. They assassinated him. Half-black President Obama dresses well. He has a better command of the English language than most of the Anglosphere. He's still a n*gger.
To the active bigot you'll always be a n*gger. The passive bigot is just waiting for one slip up to confirm you're a n*gger.
Don Lemon knows this. He's seeking attention.
(Typed this w/o edits, but apparently DL has banned the word)
I totally disagree with this notion that all racism must be put to an end before trying out any suggestions. Sorry it's not going to happen in their lifetime so you need to deal with the cards you're dealt. You really think people aren't prejudiced against other groups like Mexicans, Chinese or Muslims or gay people. You can't just sit back & do nothing because life is unfair. You can't just stay in the discussion phase forever.
You really need to end the attitude that promoting a good education, wearing appropriate clothes and ending teenage pregnancy is somehow the equivalent to telling blacks they have to act white in order to succeed.
And the stop worshipping thug culture is a good suggestion. Just yesterday another child, a 4 year old, was shot while outside in Chicago by gangs. There should be a wake up call at some point.
How come it's only news, and the president only speaks out when a white man shoots a black man? Isn't that racist? Especially when the black man attacked him? If a black man shot a white man, why is that okay?
Don Lemon is a FOOL.
Don Lemon is a gay white man in black face.
Plenty of white men shoot black kids without media attention. This got media attention because it took several weeks for Zimmerman to be indicted on murder charges, when it was fairly obvious that the circumstances called for such an indictment. And the media attention just snowballed from there.
Ebonics legitimate? LMFAO
I better take some lessons then so next time I am in the hood, they will appreciate my attempt to communicate like they do in most countries.
It all boil downs to family. If you are raised by decent parents, gay or straight, then more than likely you will be immune to the nonsense around you. I know I was. That is the main problem in the black community.
[quote]How come it's only news, and the president only speaks out when a white man shoots a black man? Isn't that racist? Especially when the black man attacked him? If a black man shot a white man, why is that okay?
Because the black man was an unarmed kit on his why from home buying candy, and the white man instigated a fight but getting out of his car, chasing a young kid in his own neighborhood with a gun.
That is not exactly normal.
Lets just be honest about the baggy pants people. We hate them, they look ridiculous, and women would never be allowed to wear dresses in public like that 3 times larges that they physically have ot hold them on as they walk.
I have white kind and black kids to this. Its stupid, stop it please. Im talking to you Justin Bieber.
Besides, it roots come from prison where bottom bitches did that to signify they were available for service. Why are we celebrating prison life? I dont see anyone making Pruno or Prison Cheese.
Blacks have a hard time finding an identity I think mostly because of slavery vanished what real history blacks had. Whites don't go through the same identity crisis that balcks go through. Like for instance I often heard doing middle school and high school that I was trying to act "white" because of my voice and clam, quiet nature. I didnt curse or wear certain baggy clothing, didnt listen to rap. So in this community, not only are you steroetype by other races but you face steroetypes from own communities. It is very difficult. To this day I still get asked alot, "Where are you from?" Or get commented how well spoken I am. What if I was white? Would that even be asked?
R15 speaks sensibly. It's shocking how people think these issues can only have one conversation going at a time. Yes, institutionalized racism such as drug policy should be addressed, but there is little a 14 year old girl in Chicago can do about it today. She can, however, choose to not have unprotected sex this afternoon.
Lemon makes the point that you're more likely to be listened to on policy questions about urban food deserts if your pants aren't falling off of your ass and you speak English in such a way as to sound educated. And to deny this simple truth is delusional.
Good points, R58
R59, no one is denying that, Christ. They are angry that public discourse is dominated by screeds against "saggy pants" and patronizing tsk-tsking about absent fathers.
I'm r58 and sometimes as a black man I am embarrased how other young black males act in public, not only in clothing but last week I was in a certain area populated by mostly whites and these two young black guys called each other the "N" in front of whites. I was so humiliated! It was one of those moments that reminded how far down the black community has gone down. MLK would have never permitted such a vile word to come out of his people's mouths.
My younger brother is caucasian and he wears baggy pants. Funny, no one sees fit to lecture him about the proper way to dress. Lemon is definitely an Uncle Tom.
"MLK would have never permitted such a vile word to come out of his people's mouths."
MLK fought against racism, he didn't defend it which is what you are doing.
Bitching about how black men dress but not attacking white men who wear the same types of clothes is racism.
R58, that's too much of a general statement. All blacks don't have an identity crisis. All blacks don't curse and where baggy clothes. Good grief. And if you are still getting those types of questions, maybe you need to upgrade who you hang around.
R64 and R63 I'm pretty sure the white kid gets plenty of lectures about the way he's dressing. And in general, white society looks down on those kids black or white that dress that way and they let them know. They don't get to come into the schools dressed like that & they won't get hired if they dress like that.
The problem is Don Lemon is giving the same advice any white kid gest growing up like don't act like a thug and dress better, but all the Big Talking Heads Black Leaders are tut tuting and calling Lemon an Uncle Tom for it.
They don't do what white society does, which is to say to people like Justin Beiber stop dressing like that because you look like a damn fool.
R64 Moron who misses the point!
Why isn't there a widespread push against "white" fashion: grown men wearing mom jeans, graphic t-shirts, running shoes, and baseball caps in public spaces, including restaurants and places of worship. Compared to THAT, baggy pants are tuxedos.
R66, you obviously have never talked to a black person, because I always hear them complaining about some in their community wearing baggy pants and saying the n-word. But they also supplement this by saying that there are far larger problems that contribute to the status of the black community, which is not what Lemon did or does.
Don simply lacks the gravitas to make social pronouncements of any type. Where's Louie Farrakhan when you need him?
Thank you, r68. The clothing issue is a complete red herring.
@62, why were you embarrassed? Did you raise the two black men? As far as MLK Jr permitting it, that's a joke. He didn't own black people.
You sound like one of those blacks who feels like you must impress whites at all times. Sad. Are you half Asian?
"Moron who misses the point!"
You're the moron, just like all the conservatives on this board who are defending Lemon. Studies have linked conservative beliefs to low IQ. You probably think homosexuality can be cured through prayer.
"They don't do what white society does, which is to say to people like Justin Beiber stop dressing like that because you look like a damn fool."
White people don't use Justin Bieber to represent all whites.
"you obviously have never talked to a black person, because I always hear them complaining about some in their community wearing baggy pants and saying the n-word."
He should have kept his mouth shut.
The fact that you feel like those other young, black males represent you or that you have to feel the shame for their behavior, is the problem R62. Just because you're black doesn't mean you should have to pay for their actions.
When a white person does something questionable or acts foolishly, the rest of the white people don't bend their heads in shame and say, Oh my God; now everyone is going to think we all act this way. They are treated as individuals. The fact that most blacks aren't, is the problem.
@76, you are exactly right.
Here is the ugly truth. White people can just do some things that visible minorities can't. Justin Beiber can act like a fool and dress like a fool and his behavior doesn't effect anyone except him. White people can steal and rape and act like asses and no one holds every other white person accountable for those actions.
It's wrong, it's fucked up, but it's not going to change any time soon.
Speaking well, studying, dressing appropriately and just being a productive member of society doesn't make you less black. My Dad always told me that I was going to have to work twice as hard to get half as far as my white friends and he was right.
I'm not dismissing institutionalized racism as a major factor, but at some point you have to take control of your life and make positive choices. And those choices sometimes mean being a part of the mainstream which entrails dressing and speaking a certain way.
I don't know if that's entirely true, r77. Whites are perfectly capable of demonstrating prejudice against wide swaths of their fellow racial group. I get your point though.
[quote]Why isn't there a widespread push against "white" fashion: grown men wearing mom jeans, graphic t-shirts, running shoes, and baseball caps in public spaces, including restaurants and places of worship. Compared to THAT, baggy pants are tuxedos.
Yeah, on what planet? Old men with bad taste in clothes is not the same as young men purposely wearing gang style clothes that have to be held on by one hand because they were not designed to be worn that way.
[quote]My younger brother is caucasian and he wears baggy pants. Funny, no one sees fit to lecture him about the proper way to dress.
Oh yes they are, there are saying left and right about your white younger brother. Only its the car watching him cross the street, or whispers after he leaves a store.
It is not a black thing, it is a stupid fashion thug worship thing. Look at how much DL makes fun of Justin Bbieber.
You are the racist if you cant see that.
"They don't do what white society does, which is to say to people like Justin Beiber stop dressing like that because you look like a damn fool."
White people don't use Justin Bieber to represent all whites.
Exactly R73. The conversation always reduces a diverse community to the lowest common denominator a stereotype. Skin color does not produce any one particular set of behaviors.
R58 The ignorant comments that you encountered growing up were the result of ignorance. However no one race has a monopoly on ignorance. Do you continue to retell that story in order to prove how ignorant you believe black people.
You mentioned identity crisis being the culprit. It is fairly common for adolescent and teenage children of all races to search for identity. It is a natural part of growing up. Teenagers often act out. They often dress and speak in a manner that adults find inappropriate. The difference is distasteful behavior by some is used to define the whole black community.
The problem is that these are not the problems of all black people. They are the problems of the black poor. Hell, these are problems of the poor to begin with.
As long as we frame the conversation about the negative behavior of poor blacks through a racial lens and not a class lens, the problems will persist, and poor whites will remain in the shadows.
I'm from Ohio. I know poor whites. I know who they are, where they live, and what they act like. Their behavior isn't too much different than that of poor blacks, with the only difference being that their white privilege makes their behavior invisible to the masses.
It is true that blacks make up a high percentage of the people being assisted by the government per capita, yes, but the reality is that most people in the U.S. are white. Most poor people in the U.S. are white.
I think the issue is that in a media metropolis like NYC, you are literally assaulted by poor black people on the streets EVERY SINGLE DAY. You see them any and everywhere. You have to venture far, FAR into Brooklyn to the enclaves where poor whites congregate. Trust me, they are engaging in the same behavior.
This is not a race issue. It is a class and education issue. Again, by making this a race issue and continuing to say "blacks" when what we really mean is "poor, non college educated blacks" we are doing ourselves a great disservice and the conversation will continue to go nowhere.
In a weird way, this is what Don Lemon is trying to say by separating himself from the behavior of poorer and less-educated blacks. It is a conversation that I've had with black friends on multiple occasions, though we try to give a bit more thought to the underlying roots of the problem than I think Don Lemon is capable of giving.
BTW his memoir is fucking awful. It's just really, REALLY bad and devoid of any real insight or revelation. After reading it I honestly thought less of him. I personally don't find him particularly intelligent or capable of the kind of critical thought that it would take for him to successfully make the point that he's trying to make.
Do you continue to retell that story in order to prove how ignorant you believe black people to be.
Who is Don Lemon and why does he matter?
I am as equally embarrassed by you and your stupidity as you were by the young boys.
YOu know what R86, R62 was trying to be honest. You want a conversation about race, then you want truth. Your berating him for honestly saying how he feels is very unhelpful.
He's not being stupid. Some of that behavior is embarrassing. People need to stop condoning it and acting like that's the only way poor black people can act. Having such low expectations for black people is a lot more racist than anything Lemon or O'Reilly ever said.
There are decent poor people and they should be celebrated, not the thugs
Am I the only one who likes to see young men, regardless of race, wearing saggy pants? It means they can't commit a violent crime and then run away. The lower they wear their pants, the safer I feel.
[quote] I know poor whites. I know who they are, where they live, and what they act like. Their behavior isn't too much different than that of poor blacks, with the only difference being that their white privilege makes their behavior invisible to the masses.
Really? Who do you think as been the running cast of characters in Jerry Springer the past 20 years. Invisible? Riiiiiight. You keep telling yourself that.
R89, Yeah, you might want to rethink that ill prepared theory:
OK r90, I'll take that.
Then ask yourself how often you see newscasters on cable news talk about the problems of poor whites. How about their behavior? Or the culture of dependence on government handouts? How often do you see them on television? Or going viral as an internet meme?
The point is that poor whites are kept invisible so that we can keep perpetuating the myth that black = poor. Because as long as we do that, we don't have to face the class problem which is at the root of all this behavior.
[quote]. I personally don't find him particularly intelligent or capable of the kind of critical thought that it would take for him to successfully make the point that he's trying to make.
Exactly, his comments are too simplistic for such a complex issue.
[quote]The point is that poor whites are kept invisible so that we can keep perpetuating the myth that black = poor. Because as long as we do that, we don't have to face the class problem which is at the root of all this behavior
[quote]The point is that poor whites are kept invisible
Again, not true. Honey Boo Boo ring a bell? Poor white trash everywhere you turn. Media was all over this. Dont pretend you dont know or made fun of it either. Your just as guilty.
R83 is right. Poor, uneducated people are more like each other than they are different, regardless of their respective races, religions, or ethnic cultures.
And vice versa. Condoleeza Rice, Colin Powell, Desmond Tutu, & the Obamas have everything in common with white members of the educated professional class except race.
And both groups are vastly different from each other, but on the basis of class, not race. The British have always known this, while Americans insist that class distinctions are artificial & don't matter -- in fact, just the opposite is true.
"Old men with bad taste in clothes is not the same as young men purposely wearing gang style clothes that have to be held on by one hand because they were not designed to be worn that way."
R80 Actually for those who actually have some level of taste both of those are equally offensive.
R87 R62 was honest about how he felt and I was honest about how I felt. I'm not condoning anyone's poor behavior. I wish that people of all races would behave pristinely at all times but that's not realistic. Clearly you didn't read my comment about behavior and race. Race does not determine behavior. Therefore I have no behavioral expectations based upon race. People of all races often behave poorly. Unfortunately people attempt to define the entire black community based upon the distasteful behavior of a few. Therefore what the two young boys said or did is a reflection of the entire black community. R62 is then left embarrassed because of someone else's flawed racist thought processes. Are Asians embarrassed every time there's a traffic accident involving an Asian driver. No they are not Are white people embarrassed every time a new episode of Honey Boo Boo airs. No they are not. Progressive people can and do educate themselves; and move past demonizing others based upon stereotypes. Ignorance is a choice.
I'm not sure why people keep citing random TV shows as proof that poor whites aren't largely invisible. Black poverty is urban (80+% of this country lives in urban areas). White poverty is largely rural (you can do the math).
Also, white people are not really trying to acknowledge white poverty as it would severely disrupt their self-congratulatory notions.
I think intelligent poor white people (they exist) are embarrassed by Honey Boo Boo and similar shows
self-hating black man/homo.
Great post R92
R83 I agree with you. There aren't enough examples in the media of successful black people outside the entertainment industry. There are plenty of black doctors, lawyers and business owners who simply don't seek out fame. We mainly hear about blacks in the entertainment/sports or poor blacks.
R5 I mostly agree but I do know Mario Cantone's husband is black. Unfortunately a lot of gay black men seem to prefer dating white. I've had talks with many people about this and it's sad. I hope someday we can get to a place when people are open to dating both their own group and other groups and don't see beauty as only belonging to 1 group.
GBM: fuck, you're a moron. Worse, you think you're bright.
Honey fucking Boo Boo. Swamp People. Dance Moms. Toddlers & Tiaras. Buckwild. Jersey Shore. Hillbilly Blood. Moonshiners.
Poor whites are constantly in the media in the most condescending and mocking of ways, on television dating back to The Honeymooners, through Beverly Hillbillies and All in the Family and Roseanne, and now Raising Hope. Springer made literally hundreds of millions by doing this.
And do you think the whole Jody Arias/Casey Anthony messes had nothing to do with the fact that they were trashy, slutty white girls?
The difference is that white trash does not taint all white people in the way that the signifiers of poor African Americans affect all black people. That's about race. For Don Lemon to make the reasonable suggestion to abandon such signifiers--prison signifiers--is useful advice. I'm sure he'd say the same thing to a white kid with a neck tattoo, but never having had a neck tattoo, he has little credibility. He (and Cosby, who takes similar shit from American Studies undergraduates) does, however, know something about being black.
[quote]Don Lemon tries to identify with too many groups. He should realize by now that people are not going to like him for two reasons, his race and his sexuality, he should forget about what criticisms he gets and just shut up and report.
Who'd of thought you could read a comment like this on a gay gossip site? Cunt.
Don talks about this very point in his book. He constantly felt like everyone tried to box him in when he started in news. You can tell he struggled and was obsessed with this very much as an adolescent. Don came from a well to do black family in the South, and he also came from a two parent household before his dad died. His life was very different from most black children his age. After reading about his life, you can see how his life experiences shape his opinions. He's not kissing white people's asses. He's speaking his truth. So it's absurd and ignorant to even call him "Uncle Tom".
For some reason people can separate the Honey Boo Boo family from all other white people. They can't do the same for black people. Or for that matter gay people. Have you ever been asked some silly question because the asker thinks that all gay people are alike?
my issue is Don is that he sides with O'Reilly, who we know is not coming from a genuine place of concern for Blacks. O'Reilly appeals to the mindset of the conservative racists and for Don to publicly agree with him and say that he wasnt hard enough on us blacks is very inappropriate. Seeing that he IS partnered with a White and is siding with White conservatives about blacks, especially right after the Trayvon Martin story, I think it is appropriate to call Don an UNCLE TOM
Oh for fuck sake r105, do you also say that studying and getting good grades is acting white?
I'm not sure I can take an avowed snowqueen seriously on the problems facing black Americans.
Witness the self-congratulation at R106.
r102 I don't think I'm bright sweetie, you do, as evidenced by your response and the fact that I can engage other posters in debate without resorting to name calling.
The point is that the poor whites on the shows you mention are used for pure entertainment value. They're not meant to represent all whites, nor are they seriously used as a jumping off point to discuss problems that are ingrained in poor white culture.
If anything, their presence seems to reinforce the idea that they are an anomaly among whites and that the successful whites we see in all areas of society represent the norm.
That is the issue at hand. My point remains that as long as we talk about the behavior of poor blacks as if it represents all blacks, we haven't even scratched the surface of the real conversation, which is what I think all these trolling assholes like O'Reilly and Lemon in the media really want.
The idea that any black kid spouting off epithets or walking around with sagging pants on TV or on the subways of NYC or anywhere else is supposed to somehow reflect negatively on me is the height of racist. I got over that shit a LONG time ago when I realized that shit would only reflect negatively on me to racists. And there is no degree, amount of $$, or level of command of the English language that is going to make a true racist think of me as anything other than just another n***** on the street. Period.
That is not the issue at hand r106, stupid queen, Don is affirming the stereotype that most blacks are that way when that isnt the case. Don as a Black who isnt that way should not perpetuate that stereotype. We come in all types and for Don to agree with O'Reilly and speak to the whole black community, as if he is removed from us and he is giving us a lecture on behalf of the white conservative bigots, it is very Uncle Tom-ish of him.
Some gay black men don't like Don for the same reason some white gay men don't like Anderson Cooper.
Lemon was right, so I'm damn glad he's not backing down!
[quote]I hope someday we can get to a place when people are open to dating both their own group and other groups and don't see beauty as only belonging to 1 group.
Great Post R109. I tried to cover the same territory in my last post (R96). You definitly hit the nail on the head.
[quote]Again, not true. Honey Boo Boo ring a bell?
She's rich. No one sees her as poor. They see her as stupid hick, not poor white trash.
[quote]I'm [R58] and sometimes as a black man I am embarrased how other young black males act in public, not only in clothing but last week I was in a certain area populated by mostly whites and these two young black guys called each other the "N" in front of whites. I was so humiliated! It was one of those moments that reminded how far down the black community has gone down. MLK would have never permitted such a vile word to come out of his people's mouths.
lol, hi, Maude!
Great Post R110.
I agree with GBM. I also like Don Lemon. He's intelligent, warm and has a great on-screen presence. Why should his being black limit him, why should being gay limit him? I think he reflects very positively on the gay community. I don't agree that being black means being crude or wearing pants falling down. I despise all racism: anti-black or anti-white. Hate is hate and it's wrong.
Some people say Don's okay
Offend the black and Offend the gay
That's peachy for some people
Who don't know how to play
At least got to try
When I think of
All the black leaders I gotta kiss up too
All the rednecks I gotta thrill
All the fatsos I throw a pie too and
All the sessions with dumb Dr. Phil.
Don Lemon is Rose
Don Lemon is reading this with his sorry pathetic wanna be mulatto [even though he's full black] sorry ass. Keep up the good work and keep sucking white dick.
So true r107 so true.
The opinions of a African American man who hates other African American men doesn't mean anything to me and I'm white.
[quote]Again, not true. Honey Boo Boo ring a bell? Poor white trash everywhere you turn. Media was all over this. Dont pretend you dont know or made fun of it either. Your just as guilty.
Yes, and unlike poor blacks, it is allowable and encouraged to make fun of poor whites, calling them "poor white trash" without being labeled a bigot. There is no one protecting poor white people - the Republicans exploit them, the Liberals and blacks make fun of them.
[quote]Don Lemon is a FOOL
Yes he is. Don Lemon wants white people to like him. A black man in the White House yet we still have these kinds of embarrassments.
I think the people calling Don Lemon a fool are the big Fools on here.
You want to bury your heads in the sand and pretend that there's not a problem in the inner cities with the black community. There was a 4 year old shot in Chicago who was playing outside just this Monday. And that's a normal day there.
My son is doing a summer job in Chicago with a lot of African Americans. Some are as he calls them old who told him about times where it was actually safe to live there. One is a young woman who's seen so many murders, including one where the person she was walking with was shot in the face, that she's says that she feels nothing now when she hears about other deaths and shootings. She says she knows something's wrong with feeling like that.
The stuff he hears about is heartbreaking. And yes, I'm aware Don Lemon is not offering deep solutions. But sometimes you have to start off with the superficial. How many schools have said just a simple thing like having school uniforms have helped with kids school scores.
What Don was saying was dress and act like you respect yourself . You want to complain that white kids also dress badly, do drugs etc. I guess that makes you feel better about keeping things the status quo.
This Gawker piece was written specifically for the likes of r124.
[bold]Video of Violent, Rioting Surfers Shows White Culture of Lawlessness[/bold]
[italic]A frightening and violent mob swept through the normally quiet seaside community of Huntington Beach last night following a surfing competition in the area. Businesses were vandalized and looted, portable toilets overturned, and brutal fistfights waged right out in the open. It was an ugly display and a sad day for California. But more than that, it was a reminder that we must begin to seriously consider the values of our thuggish white youth...
Many people don't want to hear this kind of tough love, of course. They'd like to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that all white children are as sweet and harmless as Taylor Swift. But the reality is that the statistics tell a different story. For instance, according to research from the Department of Justice, 84 percent of white murder victims are killed by other white people [PDF]. Similarly, white rape victims tend to be raped by other whites [PDF]. [bold]White-on-white violence is a menace to white communities across the country, and yet you never hear white leaders like Pastor Joel Osteen, Bill O'Reilly, or Hillary Clinton take a firm stance against the scourge[/bold].[/italic]
Read on at link
If you're anything other than white you can't just be an individual, you're expected to represent everyone else from your particular race or culture. It's ridiculous.
I think the amazing thing is that anyone gives a fuck what Lemon says. Aside from people with too much time on their hands and other media types, no one has ever heard of him.
R125 You're assuming a hell of a lot ( including about my race which I'm pretty sure is darker than yours). I do not imagine because there's violence in Chicago that that means all blacks are violent or wear baggy clothes or any number of stereotypes. It's obvious white people have problems too & commit all variety of crimes. But Don Lemon was not trying to fix white people problems. He was speaking about his community because that's the one he cares about.
I care. I get angry and upset when I see these kids with so much potential shot and killed. And when you talk to teenagers and they'll telling you how apathetic they feel, that they don't believe they're going to live until they're 30 and how they have symptoms that mimic PTSD then yes, I do think ANYONE who's even considering a solution should be listed to and not mocked. Don Lemon is not the enemy here.
I meant to post 'should be listened to'
Watch out R129,
I've written here about PTSD in the poorer black communities and was called a racist. I have seen the symptoms in many poor communities but that thread was about Treyvon Martin.
In fact, I see it everywhere now.
"He was speaking about his community because that's the one he cares about."
R129 I'm sure that you believe that Bill O'Reilly cares about black people too. O'Reilly rants about the horrors of the black community because he cares so much about blacks and Don Lemon cosigns the rant because he cares so much about his community(even though he won't even date someone from his community). This helps the black community because until Bill O'Reilly said something no one in the community had any idea what was going on. Now that O'Reilly and Lemon have honored black people with their brilliance the world is a better place. R129 your naivete is absolutely astounding. You should tune in to Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh I'm sure that they have more brilliant concern that will inspire you.
What is wrong with Don Lemon dating a white guy? Hating people because they are white is racism too. There shouldn't be any preference based on race. White should be equal to black. I think Don Lemon is too smart to fall back into the outdated thinking that black people need extra help (priveledge) because they're black. We're supposed to all be equal. He is a credit to his race AND to gay people.
[quote] I'm sure that you believe that Bill O'Reilly cares about black people too.
No I don't. I'm well aware Bill O'Reily is an asshole who cares about no one else but himself. Glenn Beck is a deranged idiot and Rush Limbaugh needs to crawl in a hole never to be heard from again.
YOu sound like a moron and a racist. Who Lemon decides to date does not disqualify him from having an opinion.
Don Lemon did not say anything new but it certainly bears repeating. There were 532 murders largely black on black in Chicago last year. That's not counting the victims that didn't die. Call me naive, but I'm not satisfied with that Status Quo.
R133 Who mentioned anything about hating white people? That was your bigoted assumption. I completely support interracial dating. However I do question anyone who dates exclusively outside of their race. If race doesn't matter then you will date all races including your own. WHO exactly made any request for "extra help" or privilege as you put it? Black people want to be treated equally and not demonized by stereotypes. Which is exactly what you did. You decided that the black people are looking for something extra help. We must be looking for some sort of handout because that's a convenient stereotype for you to lean on. We should be equal but based upon the implications off your statements we are not.
I'm so sick of hearing about "black on black" crime. MOST crime is intra-racial, meaning blacks commit crimes against blacks, whites against whites, and the like.
And r133, "a credit to his race?" Really? Are you posting from 1963? If so, tell JFK to keep his head down.
R134 Opinions are like assholes. Everyone has one and I'm sure you're familiar with the rest of that expression. Let me repeat this for you. I support interracial dating. However I have a problem with people who date exclusively outside of their race. Here's a quick analogy just for you. If you tell me that you love domestic cars but you would never ever drive or buy one. I will have some doubts about your love for domestic cars.
You came to the conclusion that I'm a racist. However you support Don Lemon's who is supporting Bill O'Reilly. You refer to Bill O'Reilly as a "asshole" but you refer to me as a racist. You say that Bill O'Reilly doesn't care about anyone so what exactly was the objective of his commentary. Now if you can determine the objective of O'Reilly's commentary; how exactly does supporting Bill O'Reilly or using the same tactics O'Reilly used serve the black community in any meaningful way.
There are so many ugly stereotypes thrown around on this site and so much hateful bigotry expressed here. However I'm what you define as a racist. That's very interesting.
I can't at people acting like the black community in the USA isn't completely fucked up. Get over your pc bs, Don is right. Get your shit together, black america. And quit blaming white people.
The objective of O'Reilly was probably to change the subject away from Trayvon Martin and racial profiling. For that reason Lemon should have probably found a way to say what he did without openly supporting O'Reilly or deferred his comments to a less volatile time.
But it doesn't make what Lemon said incorrect nor make him an enemy. No matter who he's dating, he did choose to move to Harlem and I doubt very much it's because he doesn't like black people.
As a white person I always find it hilarious when right wing bigots claim that we are all burying our heads in the sand about Chicago ( which is basically an anomaly and constantly talked about)but these same people NEVER talk about the meth, heroin, and prescription drug epidemic and the increasing violence and crime associated with it. White prison incarceration has actually increased while black has decreased. But you never hear about any of this from these same people. I guess their "concern" only goes so far.
R138 What "You Cant" is offer more to this discussion than your hatred, bigotry and your lack of any real intellect.
Why don't you, Bill O'Reilly and these other Neanderthals worry about the explosion of poverty in the white community. Worry about getting that shit together.
I am a black man who happens to be dating a white man and I really take offense to some of the comments in this thread.
Just because I am dating a white person does not mean that I don't find other black men attractive. I like THIS particular person, not because of his skin color but because I actually like HIM.
I find that more black people give me shit about race than white people do.
It's not hatred, r141, it's TRUTH. Black America is so steeped in their own victimhood that any valid criticism, even from an intelligent black man like Don, makes him an Uncle Tom sucking the evil white man's dick. Black Americans desperately need to start taking responsibility for themselves and their actions.
R142 There are hateful bigoted comments made here about black people all day everyday but apparently those comments don't offend you. Instead you're offended by black people who do fight against the bigotry so you've come here to add to the complaints about the terrible terrible black people. Thanks.
As far as interracial dating goes, I will try to make this clear. I support interracial dating. I love men of all races. However I have a problem with men of any race who date exclusively outside of their race. I personally don't understand people who don't see the beauty in all races including their own.
Oh, shut up, r143. We're talking about articles of clothing, manufactured and marketed by the same forces that then condemn a consumer for wearing them. It's nuts. And I think anybody gullible enough to take the position of a black network anchor simply because he's wearing a suit to be incredibly naïve. Real black people know the suit and tie routine was a staple of the minstrel show as well.
Then hows come we've never had an aborigine or new Guinean as Miss World, r44?
r144's post is proof of the never ending victimization of black americans. Cry more, fool.
Suits and ties didn't prevent blacks from being beaten and lynched during TCRM. Zoot suits were considered inappropriate as well. I can't wait to see if the right wing bigots will blame punks and goths for increasing white incarceration/crime, poverty, and drug use. Somehow I doubt it. Black Americans have one of the highest college attendance rates, decreasing incarceration rates, increasing middle class, decreasing teen pregnancy rate, 90% over the age of 25 have a high school diploma or equivalent... but we're supposed to believe that they are "completely fucked up." That's just more of that one-sided concern from right wing bigots whose minority outreach campaign is going just fine. Don't do battle with the trolls here, they have nothing better to do.
It's always so funny that the whites of DL know everything black people need to do to fix their community, what with the outrageous rates of HIV infection, depression, drug use, sexual promiscuity, and suicides within the gay community.
Why, you'd think that the gay community is perfect!
But, you know it's OK. Black people are everyone's scapegoats, as if pontificating about our problems are going to fix theirs, including Don Lemon, who's own thinly veiled self-hatred is the most revealing part of his awful memoir.
American society is EXTREMELY fucked up right now. That's everybody, including blacks, gays, and *gasp* whites! Greedy white men brought our economy and financial system to its knees, but of course lets spend all of our time trying to "fix" black America.
The 2013 Summer of Racism has truly made me sickened by this country.
R147 Your comments speak for themselves as does the ignorance posted in so many of the treads here. Calling me names does not change that. What my post does prove is that I can read and comprehend unlike you. Although, for people like you the content of my post doesn't matter. You will trot out the same antiquated stereotypes ad nauseum. You are simply trolling for another opportunity to express your stupidity.
Don't shoot the messenger.
[quote]I can't at people acting like the black community in the USA isn't completely fucked up. Get over your pc bs, Don is right. Get your shit together, black america. And quit blaming white people.
If you think all of black people's problems are caused by black americans themselves, then you are delusional or ignorant, and likely not a black person. Its a combination of a lot of things, some caused by black people, some not.
[quote]However I have a problem with men of any race who date exclusively outside of their race. I personally don't understand people who don't see the beauty in all races including their own.
Are you saying you have a problem with Don Lemon because his boyfriend is/was white?
Don is 47, no one here knows his entire dating history.
The thing about Don Lemon dating a white guy is that it's an established pattern, and if you read between the lines from his memoir and many of his public statements and associations, stems from an inferiority complexed life and ever present self-hatred.
Interesting how racist whites are rallying behind his stupid remarks, I'm sure that's what he wanted.
Hasn't Don Lemon been with Ben Tinker for years now? Other than that do you really know his pattern of dating or as R152 said his entire dating history. Maybe he's with this one white guy because he loves this one white guy. Seems like lots of people are making all kinds of assumptions without knowing him.
What do you say when people only date black women like Bill Mahr or Boris Becker who only dates or marries black or biracial women. ARe we to conclude they all hate white people because they also have an established pattern.
I think maybe people should quit with the armchair psychoanalyzing. Lemon said what he said because just weeks before he ran into some woman yelling at her son using the N word. He told her something about it and she turned around and threatened him. He's probably been a little riled up about that incident ever since.
This is the kind of stuff that pisses me off. Don Lemon speaks the truth, the same thing that many black people say in their homes or among friends, but God forbid he speak it out loud. The same thing happened to Bill Cosby. My parents, their friends, relatives used to say the same thing all the time.
Don Lemon is a bitch ass Uncle Tom. FUCK HIM
R149 is correct. The racism heard *outside* this site is shocking in the fact that the post-racial America will probably never happen shit like the reaction to Don as well as even supposedly trivial outbursts by the NFL fool and the Big Brother trash. Zimmerman verdict was just a reaction to terrible toxic feelings flowing through America`s veins right now
@155, what does Don Lemon saying it publicly accomplish? Not a damn thing, except get him some attention. If black people roll their eyes at Obama when he lectures, why wouldn't they do it to a gay news reader?
No, Don Lemon, you don't get "the Uncle Tom Award"...you get the nobody gives a f*ck award about your worthless opinion.
I have a lot to say about the comments on this thread but I realize it's pointless to write them out because black people are deeply insecure about themselves in relation to white people. These comments are just about lashing out for being black which you don't like being. As long as white people exist black people will be insecure, angry, bitter and anxious about being black. It's the deep insecurity that fuels these acidic posts. Recently, it's been speculated that India Arie bleached her skin. She is known for writing songs about loving black features. In recent photos she is noticably lighter.
Don Lemon is no longer dating Ben Tinker. He's with a new guy now who also happens to be white. He was sitting next to him on The View.
r154 I think his dating pattern has been established.
R159 reducing an entire community of people down to four adjectives discredits any theories that you might have to offer about the state of the black community so you are correct about it being pointless to go any further.
It is applauded when white gays speak out about how they are represented and treated by the media. It is applauded as brave and important. It viewed as natural and important for white gays to be militant and vigilant.
A black man who does the same thing is angry, bitter suffering from some obscure pathology. He is wallowing in victimhood and looking for "extra help".
As a member of the news media in this country Mr. Lemon offered his opinions to the public and he is entitled to do that. As a member of the black community I am offering my opinion. I am entitled to do that.
We should all question and challenge the news media in this country much more often. We live in a culture where real journalism is almost dead.
[quote]Don talks about this very point in his book. He constantly felt like everyone tried to box him in when he started in news. You can tell he struggled and was obsessed with this very much as an adolescent. Don came from a well to do black family in the South, and he also came from a two parent household before his dad died. His life was very different from most black children his age. After reading about his life, you can see how his life experiences shape his opinions. He's not kissing white people's asses. He's speaking his truth. So it's absurd and ignorant to even call him "Uncle Tom."
I went to high school with Don; or, rather, Don transferred to MY high school (I was a year ahead of him). His parents chose the new school because his cousin (my best friend) was there for support. I liked Don immediately; I like him now.
But from the start Don made it clear he preferred being in the company of white people (more specifically, white girls). Now, I've always had way more white friends than black, but never did I purposely exclude a racial, gender, or economic group from friendship--friends are much too hard to come by. Don did it in a nice way, but still he did it. And we had no black "thugs" in my HS.
That's an interesting anecdote R162 even though it really has no relevance to what Don Lemeon said. But you have to be careful about making judgments on who was doing the rejecting. Black people sometimes do the rejecting first especially if they feel like you're 'acting white' by the way you speak or if you have more interest in academics. This is just my observation from being someone close to Don's age who also went to school with black people who weren't 'thugs' but who didn't want to hang out with the non cool nerdy type like Don Lemon probably was.
And of course Don would have been the only black person in his entire school ( and everywhere else) who "acted white" and was into academics.
R163 Your argument assumes that academically successful students are all uncool, geeky or "nerdy". It is filled with stereotypes. Well- rounded students succeed in all sorts of areas outside of academics including sports. Students who succeed academically but who possess weak social skills are often labeled as geeks or nerds. Unfortunately they are often treated as outcast by everyone; again because they don't possess the social skills needed to navigate high school politics.
Also with the college enrollment numbers of black women surpassing men and woman of all races; can we please let go of this notion that black people believe academic focus equates to "acting white".
R163 You attempt to dismiss the one person here who actually knows Mr. Lemon as irrelevant. If you read the entire thread you would know that R162 "anecdote" is very relevant to the the conversation here.
Imagine if Anderson Cooper went on television and said: I agree with the comments that Pat Robinson has made about the gay community; only Robinson doesn't go far enough. The gays on DL heads would explode. GLAAD would be demanding action be taken. Anderson Cooper would be dragged out of the CNN building and lynched by the gay community.
Well, I for one could care less whether you're black, white, red, yellow or purple for that matter. As far as I'm concerned we're all a part of one race-the human race.
I'm a black guy who grew up in an all white neighborhood and attended a private New England boarding school where the only other black person was from Wales. I have only dated white guys because almost all of my social situations from the time I was a kid have only involved white people. I think Don has a point, but its wrong to call him out based on the guys he dates. That has nothing to do with anything.
Don's point is idiotic. To shine a light on the symptoms of poverty and not the root cause is pathetic and idiotic. Black unemployment has been double that of whites since 1972 when the government first began tracking employment figures. Unemployment is as high as 50% in urban areas. Even when blacks and whites are the same age and education level there are significant unemployment gaps. Yet Don and right wing bigots and idiots rather talk about fashion choices and words rather than a real issue like racial inequality in the job market because it makes them feel better about themselves. And you wonder why Republicans have an abysmal record with minorities. Racial inequality should not be the norm. And I'll probably get in trouble for saying this but being born a black person doesn't make you an expert on urban social issues. Sociologists, Economists, Anthropologists, Psychologists attend years of schooling to become experts in their field. Don needs to stick to reading the news.
Don Lemon is doing his job: reassuring white people. There certainly isn't any money in reassuring black people. His presumed martyrdom stance will only soothe whites all the more: "don't worry boss, I'm taking the heat for ya!" The non-story of "attacks" on him across social media (I.e., people on random message boards disagreeing with with him) feeds the standard storyline ("angry blacks!"). Because black people are allowed one acceptable stance now: Lemon's. Black people must tamp down even the moist minimal critique to avoid the hysterical cries of "anger!," "political correctness," etc. Mr. Lemon collects a nice check, and he wants to continue to collect it. Not really a lot to see here beyond that.
R167 Are we to believe that you are a grown man and you have no control over your "social situations". As children we may not always have a choice about whom we socialize with. Our parents often make those choices for us. As adults we have the opportunity to consciously make those choices for ourselves. You describe yourself as a person of privilege. Certainly that economic privilege should open up a world of opportunity for you to experience the diversity of your community and many others.
There are some great responses on this thread. Unfortunately, I believe that your primary agenda is the substantiation of your choice to date outside of your race. It is perfectly acceptable for you Lemon and anybody else to isolate themselves from their own ethnic community. You're an adult and that's your choice to make. However once you've chosen to do that; your interest,love and concern for that community will be justifiably called into question.
If I told you that I'm a gay man, who doesn't associate with gay people. I don't date gay men because I'm not attracted to them. I don't befriend gays because I prefer straight friends only. I don't attend gay events because I prefer straight events only. However I'm an expert on the gay community and I'm really concerned about the gay communities issues. Would you not find that questionable.
Surely with that pricey New England boarding school education you are able to do some critical thinking here and see this from all sides.
Proof Reading Error Correction:
However I'm an expert on the gay community and I'm really concerned about the gay community's issues.
I think part of the reason Don made these comments was because he thought O'Reiily would never expect a black person to actually agree with him. That asshole O'Reiily says stuff because he thinks black people hate him for saying it, and he gets off on it.
r170, you make some good points. But I wouldn't go as far to say that they are not concerned the the well being of other black people though. Everyone has parts of their culture that they like and don't like. It's just that in America you can pretty easily avoid parts of your culture that you don't like. That's what Don has been doing, and that's what's behind some of his comments.
Don clearly had bad experiences as a child with other black people that made him say that he preferred being around white people when he was 13 or 14. Im black and I spent my formative years in inner city schools, until high school. My family was pretty well off, so I felt out of place at times. I was bullied by thugs, especially around the time that I realized I was gay. I always fought back and I had a sharp tongue like Don. So I understand where he is coming from. But I dont think this affected my social patterns as an adult like it did for Don, at least not in my preferences of who I date. Im still attracted to all races of men, black men included. I like thugs too. Don was also molested repeatedly as a child by a male family member, so that might be a factor as well.
Don Lemon is black, how can anyone criticize him giving his opinion about black people? It seems to me that he has more right to his opinion than all the white people who are always talking about blacks. This reminds me of the nasty way people accuse gay people of being "self-loathing" when they try and encourage other gays of living up to certain standards. He is openly gay and high profile, no one has any right to criticize him for who he dates.
I think he is an articulate, personable and warm presence on CNN. We should support him, he reflects very positively on the gay and the black community. We're so fortunate to have people like Don Lemon, Anderson Cooper and Thomas Roberts represent us on the cable news networks.
BTW: I hope Shepard Smith one day comes out of the closet. I saw a documentary where they indicated that he might be gay, too. Wouldn't it be great to be represented on CNN, MSNBC and Fox? Are there any openly gay reporters or anchors at the broadcast networks.
R172 O'Reilly has been in a tizzy since Obama spoke briefly about the racism that still exist in this country. His response to Obama's speech was to issue a tirade on the horror of the black community. It is an attempt to shut the conversation down by demonizing the community as one big nightmarish stereotype.
I agree with you about the issue of classism being an important part of the conversation. I think that some other people here have addressed that issue but yes certainly there's a huge stigma attached to poverty in this country. Everyone in this country hates the poor; despite the explosion of poverty among the formerly middle class.
Like so many gay men growing up, I too was bullied. I was bullied by blacks and whites. Certainly,I carried around a great deal of resentment as a child. However as an adult it hasn't prevented me from socializing with or dating black or white people.
What R143 said.
R175 Instead of fretting over the woes of the black community, how about you first focus on learning to write a complete sentence. Your local community college has a seat in a remedial English course that they've reserved just for you.
Great post r170.
How do you get considered for this Uncle Tom Award?
I missed that one last year.
Don was great on CNN the night the Trayvon decision was announced. I would rather watch him than Anthony Bourdain and their new "true crime" shows.
I hope this is it with Don Lemon and the black community and his career never recovers. Lets see how much the white folk he's sucking up to are willing to support him.
Don has the same problem Obama has. They both tried to be liked by two many people and in the end, no one loves them. Don has said many times he's not a democrat and respects many republican leaders, but the right hate him because he's black and gay and the left hates him because he sells out.
Thomas Roberts doesn't have these problems.
Neither does Cherry Jones for that matter.
Oh, stop it r181. Don Lemon is no Obama and Obama is loved by half the country. Also, Don Lemon isn't intelligent enough to carry his own show like a Sharpton or MHP.
If Lemon is whining about being hated by the right when he's one of them, then he's looking for sympathy in the wrong places. He and Larry Elder should get together.
He is an Uncle Tom. He's a self-hating gay black man who only dates white guys that wouldn't even date him if he wasn't semi-famous and didn't have some money.
He's a joke.
[bold]Dr. Boyce: Don Lemon is an angry White man who just happens to be Black[/bold]
[italic]... Don is a relatively well-educated, hard-working, law abiding citizen, as well as a proud gay man. He is the darling of the liberal establishment, and realized long ago that he can get rich and famous by proving to White people that he’s “different from those other people,” meaning loud mouth negroes such as myself.
Don also possesses the arrogance that comes with being a young, light-skinned Black man who’s been elevated by the legitimacy granted to leading Blacks who are accepted by White American media. CNN, MSNBC and other networks have long been in the business of creating “Black thought leaders” by simply giving them a large platform to serve as mouth pieces for an agenda that has typically left us at the back of the bus... [/italic]
lol at all the black bloggers bashing Don. They really cannot take any criticism at all....
r17 Perfect post. This is equivalent to someone saying women can't wear short or tight clothing, less they are responsible for there harassment.
Don Lemon is an embarrassment.
What R187 said.
r22 Wearing baggy clothing and speaking in slang doesn't make one a thug. A thug is one that actually engages in illegal behavior. Lots of white male teens also wear baggy clothing, and they are never hunted down and harassed for it.
I suppose gay white men should avoid speaking and dressing in a certain way to avoid harassment from homophobes??
I can't stop laughing at the fool who says ebonics is a legitimate dialect. Is this real life?
Everything said about him being an embarrassment to black people; being used as a vehicle for white criticism of blacks; and being stupid and self-loathing in his support of Bill O'Riley's brand of racism is true. May he fade into oblivion. He brought all this derision on himself.
Can't stand this little self-loathing queen. I bet he's never been with a black guy once.
No, not what R187 said, R190. Why should black people have to take criticism? And what makes Don Lemon or anyone else an arbiter in black anything?
What's really disgusting is that you think 'black people', as if we are all one and the same, need criticism. Why don't you and Don get together and talk about real issues involving real people, since you seem moved to concern.
r136 the JFK line had me on the floor. Great post.
r140 I would also add that although there are higher rates of crime among black people, the reason why they are more likely to be in prison is because police over policy black areas and blacks are given heavier sentences.
r148 Good example with the zoot suits. The truth is that anything that is associated with black people will be demonized(sic) even if it is fancy and dressy.
Black men tomorrow could all wear tuxedos tomorrow, but that wouldn't stop white police officers from stopping them for a routine drug bust or crazy mixed raced Florida residents from "accidentally" shooting them(or out of self defense).
And black hairstyles are often considered 'threatening'. Afro's and locks are considered a no-no in the corporate world and black women have been forced to wear straightened white looks if they wish to get ahead. Can you imagine the outrage if Michelle Obama decided to grow her hair out natural?
If your not antagonizing the white population and if you say things that black people want to keep among black people you are looked at like a traitor among black people. Don said some things that many black people say in black company.
Black women wear straight hair wigs or straighten their natural hair because they want to. Madam C.J. Walker, a black woman, invented a method to soften and straight black hair.
[quote]Black women wear straight hair wigs or straighten their natural hair because they want to.
And of course NO white people straighten their hair or wear straight hair weaves (rolling eyes).
Dolly Parton, Cher, Shitney, Gaga, Taylor Swift, Kim Kardashian, Lindsay Hohan, Nicole Kidman, Joan Rivers, Jessica Simpson...want me to continue?
R202 I mentioned that because other posters suggested black women wore straight hair wigs because they were forced to by white people.
Why all the racial threads?
Yes, r203. Afros and dreadlocks are considered threatening by white folk and black women are required to wear their hair straight, hence the multi-million dollar market for weaves and relaxers. You think these hairstyles scare other black folk?
R205 No, it's about what black people want. Black women want the soft, straight hair that blows in the wind. Black women prefer that look compared to their natural hair.
Wrong r206. This famous cover played on white people's fears about militant black women.
Don said NOTHING wrong.
Get an education?
Stay in school?
Pull up your saggy pants?
Stop having kids without any means of supporting them?
All of that is great advice for anyone!!!
Not one person is forcing a black woman to have a weave. No one told Beyonce to have blonde hair. It's a matter of choice. I've worked for black women with bald head and afros and that's in the corporate world so I don't see that affecting employment.
Yes maybe black women want to conform to some stereotype of beauty. But so do white women, who also wear weaves, and any color women. Women are complicated and maybe too complicated a topic for gay men to take on.
he's probably a member of GOProud too.
next he'll be doing a segment on outrageous costumes at pride parades and how that kind of thing is an embarrassment to us all.
[quote]Don has the same problem Obama has. They both tried to be liked by two many people and in the end, no one loves them.
If you knew Don's track record in news, you'd know that he is not trying to kiss anyone's ass or be liked by anyone. He actually got suspended in a few markets back in the early 2000s because he got very feisty with producers when they started to tell him the issues he wanted to cover on air (issues related to black viewers and gay viewers, shock!) were too controversial. Don has always marched to beat of his own drum, if you cant tell by his reporting. He has even dissed CNN while on the air, and he also called them out in his book when they took him off the air in the middle of his shift when bin Laden was assassinated. But they hired him for this very reason, he speaks his mind.
r185, Dr. Boyce also seems to be a bit ignorant of Don's history when he goes on about Don ignoring issues related to the black community. Dr. Boyce's career is largely based on "crabs in the barrel" syndrome, the same syndrome that a lot of you are exhibiting in this thread.
Obviously the race baiting troll is off his meds and he is very busy on DL today. Why are we even still talking about this.
R185 No one here is begrudging Don Lemon's success. I don't agree with him or anyone else 100% of the time and it is my right to express my disagreement. Mr. Lemon expressed his opinions and I have expressed mine. It has nothing to do with "crabs in a barrel"; no more so than your rejection of my criticism does.
There's nothing wrong with Don Lemon speaking his mind and giving his opinion. I get tired of the group speak where everyone must make sure their talking points match each other.
What's funny is on every single article where some black leader is giving hell to Don Lemon you'll see a lot of the comments from the black people living in the communities he's talking about saying he has a point.
As someone else commented Don Lemon said the things in public that many black people say in private but now he's getting punished for it.
R214 Clearly you didn't read the thread and now you want to have a conversation that's already been had over and over again here. Please read all of the thread before you make assumptions.
[quote]I don't agree with him or anyone else 100% of the time and it is my right to express my disagreement.
r213, I never said you didn't have a right to express your opinion. Its just that sometimes you it's good to base your opinions of someone when you know more about them. A lot of people commenting here don't know much about Don outside of his reporting, besides that he has publicly dated white men, and maybe that he was sexually abused as a child. That is just not enough info for some of you to make the comments that Ive read here. But that's just my opinion.
And I also have the feeling that if it was TJ Holmes, Ed Gordon, or Al Roker saying this, you guys wouldn't even take issue with it. Some of you only have a problem because Don likes dick like you do.
I could be wrong, but that's just my opinion.
R216 I think the real issues with Mr. Lemon's comments have been pretty clearly articulated here; at least for anyone who takes the time to read the entire thread. Your attempt to reduce this to a case of gay homophobia is really absurd.
[quote]now you want to have a conversation that's already been had over and over again here
Funny how you had nothing to say when people have posted Don Lemon is an uncle tom ad nauseam. That being said over & over & over again on here, that totally repetitive conversation didn't bother you one bit. You don't have a problem with having the same conversations you have a problem with different opinions than yours. That says a lot about why you're so up in arms over Don Lemon.
[quote]Your attempt to reduce this to a case of gay homophobia is really absurd.
r217, it is not that absurd. I see this kind of behavior on DL a lot.
You missed the point, entirely, R218. Since you need help; the outrage stems from Don's (and everyone who agrees with him) misplaced criticism. The problem with Don and his supporters is that they want to see ALL black people as little children who need to be disciplined and set right. Of course, Don has all the answers, how convenient.
Never mind that, as has been pointed out in this very thread, these problems are specific to a class -- the poor -- and NOT a race -- in this case, black people.
Really sick of all the diseased white faggots on this board. Enough of the race threads.
You're helping matters, R221. Way to go!
If he wants to up to date with what he calls himself he should refer to himself and Uncle Rukus.
R218 Actually in my initial comment today I stated and I quote: "why are we still talking about this?" At this point; I have nothing new to add to this conversation and I'm not looking to rehash what I've already said. My point of view is pretty clearly stated. Therefore, I have already established why I'm "so up in arms with Mr. Lemon". There is no need to draw your conclusions from your own speculation.
I'm all for the continuation of the conversation if someone has something new to add. You however are not adding anything new to the conversation. You're repeating what has already been said 20 times; leaving me to question if you actually read the thread.
R219 As I mentioned before the real issues at hand with Mr. Lemon's commentary have been more than sufficiently addressed here. It is absurd to try to reduce the conversation to a matter of gay homophobia.
Either way this conversation is so last week. Mr. Lemon had his 15 minutes. Most people have moved on now. I'm sure to Mr. Lemon's bitter disappointment no ones thinking about him.
I love that show, but yeah.
That should have been "if he wants to be up to date he should refer to himself as Uncle Rukus."
Me and 225 waiting for season 4.
Or has it started already?
Me too R221. Entitled white queens turn my stomach.
Don should start doing whiteface.
Nothing sadder than a black man yearning for white approval like Don Lemon. He's over before he happened.
I think he realises he fucked up and is laying low for now.
Why don't you guys just say why you really don't like Don?
Not me R232 - I think he is FABULOUS; this "No Talking Points" segment endeared him to me EVEN MORE. It was so brave - Oprah, Michelle Obama, Beyonce would never do this for fear of alienating their audience.
we have, R232: he is a self-hating black man. probably mocks other gay men for being "so gay".
It wasn't brave, R233. He doesn't have an audience to alienate...
[quote]Ebonics is a legitimate dialect.
Talk about the "soft bigotry of low expectations."
R236 Perhaps you're unfamiliar with the definition of dialect.
Definition of DIALECT
a : a regional variety of language distinguished by features of vocabulary, grammar, and pronunciation from other regional varieties and constituting together with them a single language (the Doric dialect of ancient Greek)
b : one of two or more cognate languages (French and Italian are Romance dialects)
c : a variety of a language used by the members of a group (such dialects as politics and advertising — Philip Howard)
d : a variety of language whose identity is fixed by a factor other than geography (as social class) (spoke a rough peasant dialect)
White Americans may be dismissive of Ebonics, but it is highly admired and imitated by English speakers worldwide including middle class kids in England. African Americans culture is the most imitated and copied culture in the world.
Is Lemon still reclaiming 'Uncle Tom'?
Is he still laying low?
It's a complex problem and Boyce makes many logical observations. He seems to believe everything slanted against the black community abrogates any requirement for self responsibility in the areas of your life you can control. You'd wait a long time for nirvana.
Cornball Negro Don Lemon may have gone to far this time with his tweet about Adrian Peterson who's son got beaten to death.
The Uncle Tom crown has moved on to Thomas Roberts.
I really, really hate this guy.
He and Anderson need to go over to Fox News were they belong. Nothing worse than a Log Cabin Queen.
What is really sad the fact that white teens are emulating the black thug appearance. Sagging pants, the constant use of profanity, and when they are not f-ing everything, a very limited vocabulary. Within the black community, if a black student tries to excel, he/she are accused of "acting white." Blacks are the true racists.
r248, please run back to 1994 where you belong, thanks
[quote]He and Anderson need to go over to Fox News were they belong. Nothing worse than a Log Cabin Queen.