"Having lived in New York for nearly 13 years, I've found that not much has changed for me as far as bullying goes. When you walk into a gay bar on any giving weekend, there are still bullies; they're just drinking cosmopolitans instead of juice boxes. They may look like you and like the same things that you like, but they're not necessarily your friend, and if you don't look or dress a certain way, there is a good chance that they're going to say something bad about you behind your back. Sometimes going out on the weekend really makes me wonder whether gay men are a gay man's worst enemy. Being bullied because of your sexual orientation is certainly wrong, but being bullied by the people who are supposed to be accepting of you is a total mindfuck. There's so much competition between gay men that sometimes it almost seems as though we're not a community banded together at all but a group of people in constant competition with each other for no good reason whatsoever."
A lot more at the link:
Gay men do not adapt properly because they are closeted during the formative adolescent years, and that turns us into little sociopaths.
We have this discussion, like, every month. It's nothing revelatory.
Hurt People hurt people.
That's what you get for seeking carbaceous entertainment OP. Carbs kill
I think that the author overstates his case but there is some validity to it.
I'm not sure that judging the gay population based on experiences at a gay bar makes sense either. The self selection bias to the negative in that sample is significant.
That being said, blaming one's behavior based on his childhood is self-indulgent and lacks any sense of accountability.
I've always thought that the bad behavior of many gays is not because they are gay but because they have never been in a situation where they have had to compromise (if they have never been in a long-term relationship). They've never had anyone rein in their self-centered tendencies. I see the same type of behavior in a lot of my always been single straight friends.
"There's so much competition between gay men that sometimes it almost seems as though we're not a community banded together at all but a group of people in constant competition with each other for no good reason whatsoever."
This is a perfect description of many young and young-ish straight men (and not a few straight women). Why turn this into a gay-only thing?
R5, there's a bigger (or more focused, depending on your perspective) picture here.
my brother lives next to to large angry lesbians...hurt from previous owners of the lot, they attacked him immediately over small inconsequential things...he tried to to talk to them and let them know it was not an discrimination thing (his brother-me- is gay), but they are just evil womyn....so now his kids re growing up to resent the "dykes"
[R7] here...yes these women have become the worst neighbors ever, and even though I bristle at the word "dykes", they have done more to stereotype the term more than anything....
He's using a bar experience in NYC to establish a norm? It might be more a product of New York gays than anything else. However, many gays emulate women in their need to gossip; it's the only way they know to "fight."
He could say that; but what's there to lose? I haven't seen the woman cry, so it's probably just the bedtime! And what about Connie??? Hmm, maybe she knows something, that I don't! And I have to want the girl, to have the babies; it's my call, honey!
[quote]Having lived in New York for nearly 13 years
OMG he's over 30?? Kill it!!!
Maybe it's just the loser gays who hang out in bars these days. The ones who have a decent life and are decent human beings don't need the bar scene. Besides, you can use Grindr or whatever to find someone for sex and save a lot of money.
R9, I've never stepped foot into a gay bar in NYC... only in Midwest and south. And everything he says rings just as true there.
For fuck's sake, it's not remotely bullying and it's not remotely a hate crime.
Which is the bigger problem: small-minded, bitchy queens who talk behind someone's back, or some hothouse flower who withers and wilts when he suspects that not every gay man in the room is fully nurturing of the his unique inner light?
I've found that even the bitchiest gay men are fundamentally nice...they just have an underlying sadness that compels them to lash out and act cunty every now and then. Like someone upthread said:
Hurt people...hurt people.
Anyone who wants to end the cycle of gay men treating other gay men like shit needs to be at the forefront of spreading kindness. Whenever I deal with a bitchy gay guy who wants to put me in my place (usually more feminine gays assume I'm straight/the enemy), I'm nice in return.
If a gay person is old enough to walk INTO said gay bar, one is old enough to grow the fuck up, and quit worrying what the "mean girls" are saying, thinking, or doing. Really.
No, Vladimir Putin is.
The bigger question is why are gay men so obsessed with bars?
The author relates the whole column to life in a gay bar. Guess what, people are assholes to each other in straight bars too. Just because we're all gay means we are going to behave? Straight girls are horrible to other girls even if the other girls are their own friends, and straight guys don't warm up to other guys they don't know very well.
Also, this is more about New York City. The gay bars in the gay capitol of the America are not a barometer for gay communities everywhere.
Gays can be rotten to each other. I've been a victim of gay bullying and I've also been pretty nasty myself. But you know what? I grew up, got out of the bar scene and worked hard at maintaining friendships with the people who matter.
It helps that me and my gay friends are all stoners, too.
I was here in NYC at the turn of the century going to gay bars. The picture he paints is a bit rosey. It was just as tough as he depicts it to be today. Anyone who waded through the shirtless muscle queens at Roxy on a Saturday or the fabulous fags at B Bar on a Tuesday knows what I am talking about. You could smell the fear of rejection in the air. The term Chelsea queen was coined around this time for a reason.
"Chelsea queen" hugely predates the turn of the millennium. My friends and I were saying that at least @ 1990.
Yep. Everyone knows most fags are shallow pieces of shit who won't so much as speak to you if they look at you and think "Well, I wouldn't sleep with HIM".
The majority of the scene fags deserve everything that happens to them, and every ounce of scorn that Middle America heaps upon them. They are not people, they are empty avatars of a shallow, sad consumerist life that offers no real substance or emotional sustenance.
May they all bareback and Tina their way to an early grave.
Men, gay or straight are very competitive with each other. It's just that they compete in a different manner. Women are famous for being wickedly competitive.
Also, why is he basing his entire viewpoint from bar culture? There are so many other aspects of gay life than hanging around some bar but he fails to grasp this.
I think r21 won the award for "DL's Most Bitter Queen 2013"
Did someone laugh at you the last time you stepped into a bar, Mary?
The smaller the town, the nastier the gay scene. It's sad when everyone in a bar knows each other and LOATHES each other equally.
his twitter page:
BTW yes, douchebag does seem accurate
I gave up the bar scene completely almost before it began. Get a life beyond your gayness and the bottle.
Stay away from bars, you will be happier.
Straight men are straight men's worst enemy. Sometimes straight women are straight women's worst enemies.
We live in a divide and conquer world.
So why is this so different? Do they expect more from us? I used to expect more from us, demand that we, who have suffered so much, should treat each other better than other groups treat each other.
But then I realized, we are just like everybody else, and prone to the same bullshit.
[qupte] they're just drinking cosmopolitans
Aren't Cosmopolitans a girl drink? Why would anyone care what someone drinking something like that says or thinks?
Mark Rosenberg wrote this post in February. Let's look at his latest post and how he starts it:
"My name is Mark Rosenberg, and I am an alcoholic and addict.
An easy sentence to say with almost five years of soberly under my belt, but as a 25-year-old kid who hadn't been sober for more than 12 hours at a time for nearly two years, those were the most difficult words I had ever uttered.
Between the ages of 18 and 25, my life consisted of boozing, drugging, late nights with strangers and behavior that would have made even the most reckless of partiers head spin. It started in high-school when I smoked pot for the first time. That feeling of euphoria took over me and once I felt comfortable with smoking weed, it was easy to segue into more dangerous drugs such as mushrooms, ecstasy and cocaine. By 23 I was a well-known party boy, going to all of the hottest clubs in Manhattan and frequenting after hours clubs with some of the most unsavory people you'd ever want to meet. It wasn't until the age of 25 when I woke up in my ex-boyfriend's bed, unaware of how I gotten there in the first place that something sparked in me -- a call to action to change my behavior and get help."
OK now, this is the guy judging gay men even though he's an alcoholic. This is the guy who per his own quotes deliberately went looking for unsavory people only to lump all gay people into this category. Sounds like someone has issues as apparently he's 30 & 5 years sober and still hanging out in gay bars attracting the wrong people.
Sometimes you need to look internally to fix the problem you have with people. It's not always them, it just might be you.