Reading about Cory, I am moved to ask something I have long wondered. What is the attraction with heroin? I have tried (and used) many other drugs (cocaine, Ecstasy, pot) but have never even seen heroin. Is the high that good? What does it feel like? I do not believe the myth that once you try it that it somehow magically makes you an instant addict. There must be a strong attraction--what is it? Does it feel wonderful?
It is currently cheap and easily available...my (flyover) city is in the grip of an epidemic right now, especially among teens.
I've known people who've done it, and they don't describe it as "instantly" addictive--rather that you continue to do it trying to recapture the first experience. Some become addicted more easily than others, of course, as happens with alcohol.
Apparently, it's a sort of blissful oblivion.
If someone pulled a gun on you when you are on H...you wouldn't even be phased. It makes you feel like you are all powerful & yet completely relaxed. I think that it why it appeals to people with low self esteem & anxiety issues. It erases those.
What is Ectasy like?
They all know very well that it destroys lives and kills people. So, why take that first hit? Is there a suicidal aspect to it?
A couple of years ago, I spent 8 days in the hospital, being shot up with loads of Dilaudid.
It made me dopey and sleepy and I saw creepy things, and I wondered why the hell anyone would think opiates are fun.
I got Dialudid one time in the ER with a huge kidney stone. The pain stopped the instant she stuck the needle in the port. The euphoria was brief but was magnitudes better than similar experiences with Demerol and even straight up, in the IV Morphine. Heroine is supposed to be better.
There is a terrible heroin epidemic among the young in this country. It has made a big comeback.
A lot of the problem lies in another epidemic with prescription pill addiction. People are abusing opiate pain medications and when they run out of connections with that, many turn to heroin to maintain. Then they get hooked on that.
Pills and heroin are really wrecking havoc on not only the cities but Smalltown, USA too. I bet you that most of us know at least one person who is addicted to pills, even if we might not be aware of it. I certainly know several. I've never gotten the appeal of downers, thankfully.
People just don't want to deal with unhappiness so they turn to drugs. It's pathetic. Life can't be happy all the time-it has its ups and downs. When the weak-minded start to realize this, drug use will go down. Problem is, I'm not sure the weak-minded will accept that there are going to be unhappy moments in life.
[quote]people are abusing opiate pain medications and when they run out of connections with that, many turn to heroin to maintain.
It's also a lot cheaper.
It's one of the best feelings you can ever possibly experience. It makes real life, joyous experiences pale in comparison, it's that good.
Are you addicted, R11?
I read that great feeling goes away and later you just take it because you are addicted, but you don't get the high.
Yes, its called Chasing the Dragon. That dragon, she ain't never comin' back.
I have been addicted, and if I had to money to purchase more, I'd still be. It's very expensive in my country. I'm taking suboxone to prevent relapse. Not everyone likes it, though, and the first time(s) you do it, you can get very nauseated and it can be unpleasant overall. My addiction began from painkiller use due to severe burn infection. When I became healthy again, I could no longer afford to continue using medication so I asked a friend if he knew anything better. If I could find something in life that was remotely as comforting, distracting or euphoric that wasn't detrimental to my health I would never go back to it though. Please, don't view addicts as evil people, we are just the same as you.
Some are, R15, and some are kids with too much time and money and not enough sense.
[quote]I have been addicted
You are addicted. Good for you for not using right now, but there is no such thing as a former addict with substances like this that cause real addiction.
last year I spent 8 weeks in the hospital. For 6 weeks I had Dilaudid every 2 hours. I've never experienced anything like that before and it was wonderful. I was completely and totally relaxed for the first time in my life. the last 2 weeks they stopped the Dilaudid and I went through some withdrawal symptoms (freezing down to the bone, shaking, hyper sensitivity, no appetite) That was 18 months ago and I swear I think about that feeling at least once a week. They give you that to keep you quiet....I never bothered anybody for anything while I was on it.
Forget Dilaudid. All the cool gets are doing fentanyl.
That's what they gave me after I had my gallbladder removed. I've never been that high in my life. And I was once so stoned in college that I convinced myself that there was green gas swirling around my head, and I sat for a half-hour in stunned wonderment that the green gas was my THOUGHTS, man.
Turns out, Ina Garten had just been having some of her three-bean chili in the dorm kitchen.
The Voice of the Night
My cousin is addicted to it and it just annoys the hell out of me. He's not supposed to be "that type". His side of the family is very well off. He grew up with every privilege in Bergen County, NJ which is one of the wealthiest areas on the Northeast, if not the country.
He is extremely smart and has a high interest in computer programming which he could have excelled in if he wasn't an addict. But since he was a teenager he has been obsessed with drugs. First it was weed, then ecstasy, then pills and now heroin. He has been in and out of rehab several times but he always relapses.
The worst part is that he has begun stealing from his friends and family and has turned into a downright scumbag. I understand being an addict. I don't understand being a con artist and a thief which he has become. He even sounds proud to be an addict which boggles the mind even more.
It just makes me so angry that someone with so much advantage and potential could throw that all away when good, honest kids with no privilege have to struggle.
[quote]All the cool gets are doing fentanyl.
Cool KIDS, even.
The Voice of the Night
I've never used heroin but I'm pretty sure that I would love it. The idea of it horribly appeals to me and I even long to be in that state. But I know of all the reality of addiction and I don't want that at all, so I'm scared to ever touch it. Well, that's a good thing, I'm sure.
Everyone I know who has done it said its the most amazing feeling in the world, that its even better than sex. Even hearing that, I would never try it. Besides ruining your health, it ruins your looks, your finances and every relationship you have.
It will change you just like meth or crack will, only you will be more easily manipulated into embarrassing sexual situations.
It is unfair to walk around feeling that loose and good about everything. Everyone else has to deal, but a heroin addict does not.
We need sober people in this world who can assist and help our society.
[quote] Heroine is supposed to be better.
Which one, Wonder Woman? Storm?
Heroin: Bliss inducing drug
Heroine: Woman who performs heroic acts
[quote]it ruins your looks
Well, there goes my mild interest in it, then.
R25 needs a fix.
Time to go back to the zoo, George.
I wonder if different people feel different effects from these drugs. The hospital dilaudid made me feel creepy and dopey, there was absolutely no euphoria or pleasure for me, not even with the biggest doses.
And it's not like I'm not prone to addiction, I've had a major problems with alcohol. But then alcohol makes me feel warm and happy, at least for the first few drinks, while opiates do not. A nice, inexpensive, legal bottle of chardonnay made me feel better than anything I've ever gotten from a pharmacy, yet some people ruin themselves for these drugs.
Sober seven years
I will never understand the (il)logic: 'Hey, I'll voluntarily stick a needle in my arm and vomit for fun!'
Just smoke copious amounts of pot, silly.
[quote]When the weak-minded start to realize this, drug use will go down.
This bummed me out as the "weak-minded" might have to rely upon the ignorant for help.
I love it, but it does have its down side, man.
Exactly R30. Apparently the first thing that happens is you puke your guts up.
It's what R8 stated, OP. Sad but true.
If I had such a self-righteous asshole as R20 for cousin, I might do heroin, too.
Heroin is the drug of choice for VERY unhappy people. It doesn't make you feel good; it doesn't make you feel anything. It just wraps you up in a warm, fuzzy, anesthesized haze. Roger Waters said it best: "comfortably numb."
R35 You sound very weak. Junkies often blame others for their addiction. They also tend to imagine offenses that don't really exist. You would make a perfect candidate.
My kid brother was given Dilaudid in the hospital to ease the pain from his chronic headache while we waited for the headache to diminish. He was absolutely euphoric and giddy--dancing in the halls with his IV pole, talking a mile a minute, etc. It was the happiest I've ever seen him.
I was given a shot of Demeral in the er once twenty years ago AND I NEVER FUCKING FORGOT IT!
It was surreal and 'fixed me' for a night.
I was given about six more pills for pain and was angry that I didn't get more.
Is Demeral an opiate?
What the fuck is your problem, r35? Seriously? Fuck you.
From what you all are describing, how is the high that much different than what you can get from just drinking alcohol?
OP, I've always wanted to understand why people play "Russian roulette" with their health as well. In the past, I once had to take Demeral for severe pain. Went to bed to sleep it off. I'm a very light social drinker and dislike "being out of it," or having "mind fog." Didn't really understand why others got addicted.
If you are on your computer, play this 45-minute radio show today from the NPR station in Boston on heroin. It is really good. Some people who called in we're addicts and shit got real. Totally worth the listen, very enlightening on the many issues involved with addiction and recovery too.
R20, if the rehabs your young cousin went to were 12 step based (which I'm assuming they were, since almost all of them are), then it's not a huge shock that your cousin has relapsed so many times. The 12 step philosophy teaches addicts that they are "powerless" over substance - which unsurprisingly causes them to feel even more like they are a hopeless slave to substances, as opposed to a more realistic, self-empowering approach.
R15, there is something better.
There is some evidence that predisposition to addiction, also depression, are inherited. It is, for lack of better terminology, a brain deficiency. It's even worse if you get the brain deficiency from both genetic benefactors (parents).
There is a lab called Pharmasan in Wisconsin (used to be NeuroScience, they must've been bought out) that tests various things via urine. I'm running a NeuroSpectrum Profile. You have to set it up through a doc. If you don't have insurance, the test costs $196 and they send the results and the recommended supplementation formula to your doctor. I've been putting it off for a long time, but my life is motivating me to make it happen. The supplements might cost $45 a month, but Jesus Christ, isn't that worth peace of mind and feeling balanced? Cheaper than street drugs. I have to be off all meds/supps for 24 hours before my test. Then we'll know unequivocally what my body/brain needs to optimally function. My specific reason for the test is anxiety/depression. We've been able to manage it so far, but a high stressload the last few months has screwed everything up.
In fact, I just got my kit today - I'm so excited because I'll finally get a handle on my exact needs. I'll report back if anyone's interested in a nutritional approach to addiction and other neuro issues. My test is going to measure the following: creatinine, dopamine, epinephrine, GABA, Glutamate, Histamine, Norepinephrine, PEA, Serotonin. My doctor has used these tests and the supp formulas with many over the years with good results.
R4, ecstasy is a drug that seriously maximizes sensuality. It makes the very mundane touch the most amazing ever. Not necessarily sexually arousing, but arousing in a deeply sensual way. (Although you can have sex on X and it's supposed to be incredible) X makes you physically feel things deeper and more intensely. When I tried X a few times 18 years ago, we'd go to dance clubs in San Francisco that had basement rooms set up for this. They'd have intriguing projections on their black walls, girls who would sell various candy to suck on (a sensuous experience) and other items good for the X crowd. People would wear clothes that were sensually interesting. for stroking. Generally everyone was happy and relaxed. You could just rub on someone's arm, a perfect stranger. It didn't mean anything other than both of you thought that felt great! The high doesn't last that long. I can't remember. Something like 1-3 hours.
I believe MDMA (X) uses up your happy chemical in a short period of time. So then you have no buffer if you get hurt in any way and will feel your pain more intensely. My friends and I found we had a mild depression for about a week after taking it, until our bodies regenerated whatever that happy chemical is. This is purely anecdotal. I have not done rigorous research, but that's what you're in for if you do it.
I wouldn't mind doing X again here in my old age if I knew I could do it safely. But I don't think that's possible. There are risks.
R46, I am VERY interested in hearing about your test and if you get any positive results from the recommended supplement regimen!
Are you able to start your own thread about it? If not, can someone else please do so? [don't look at me, I haven't subscribed in years]
People who do, have done or enjoy drugs should give up trying to explain the "high" or attraction to others who liken it to having a pain killer or too much alcohol or once had a hash brownie. Oh,oh, too much cake! The booze and benzo dabblers are amateurs. Tell us a cute story about your surgery or how you passed out in your undies. Scandalous.
Heroin is not my drug, but hell yeah I have done it and shot it. Why trifle? I could describe it but won't.
No drug is instantly addictive, but some have a pretty pull. Cocaine and heroin are both mighty sweet. If you do them proper, in the vein. Drugs have gotten a very bad name for themselves. Outrage. I love them, until they are gone.
If you live long enough you will stop. Sometimes stop for very long intervals. But the memory lives again. It's so easy to leave me.
I am good now, but my boy and I sometimes do things right and he gets everything he wants and I do everything to him, hard and rough and sweet and full and deep and over and over again. Sexy sweet, degrading and intimate. The big drugs are gospel truth, warm inside and all gratitude,creativity and power outside. Got it to give. There is nothing selfish if the supplies and company are in order. Far from selfish. Take care of my boy first. The cook tastes, but baby must be fed. Over and over again.
Feels like love, but can make some forsake all other love. Goes good with love too...me and my boy got a week planned in the sun and sand and water. We NEVER watch porn, we watch each other closely, deeply and I always give him some more. Sweet. He's a hot ass whore, and a good boy. Angel face. Drugs are fun y'all. Yeah, I do heroin.
But we like some other stuff more, they mix well...so never worry.
let's hope r49 ods soon.
With great priviledge comes great responsibility and some just can't handle it. Or there is a dark side to that priviledge which outsiders may not always know about.
My mom is a hospital doctor and part of her work is with drug addicts, and she hates the lying and thieving that so often comes with it. She much prefers alcoholics, who may have more of a code. Even though they never lay off the booze no matter how many times they have been told to.
R49 Huh? You on drugs?
r6 creepy in what way? like visual distortions?
R51, alcohol is legal and socially sanctioned. No need to lie and steal to get it. It also takes A LOT longer to hit bottom. If you go to AA meetings the average age is much older--middle aged. At NA meetings everyone is in their 20's. It's more common to be a functioning alcoholic--people are able work and afford to pay for their addiction more easily than a street drug user.
Someone up-thread said drug addicts are not evil. I agree they didn't start out that way, but the worst ones do become so. It changes them. They will do anything to get high.....lie, steal, neglect their children, etc.
R46, I'm very interested in learning more about that test as well. I'd like to hear more about the doctor's claims of success.
R49 will never be Jack Kerouac, no matter how high he gets.
Talk about nauseating!
If, you are as you say a groovy mama, then you won't mind taking a simple quiz before I can answer you with love, honour and all attempts at honesty.
I am the boy you lost, the son who complexed your oedipal and the only friend you will ever need. I can cook too and have two hundred pair of underwears. Italian boy, you know ma. I look good......
You have to be groovy, because I have been waiting for a chance to say that word. Groovy.
"Mama", I have said recently n frequently. I am an Italian catholic boy. Italians make the best... well everything. Cars, gold, music, food, statue models, cheese, sauce, fashion, foreskin, alps, art, asses and pretty big-dicked full lipped men. My mama told me so. She said never be silk socks and no sex. I never have. All sex, but now only for my boy.
I can take proper care of the ladies, but they don't make me happy no more. You can show your appreciation though ma.
Yuse ready for the quiz now? It gets tricky.
I am clean as the sweet babe I have always been, just in case MOM is listening. I have a different answer for you Groovy Mama.
No entiendo, but I am oddly intrigued by R57's post. Answer the question (was there one?), please.
R49/52 is hopelessly addicted to a powerful narcotic called Purple Prose.
My words aren't purple. You best look again. You have stayed too long at the fair PoPs. Take it home peacefully now.
I've known several addicts over the years and one big drawl for a lot of them, besides the initial high, is the actual mind set of being an addict, it takes away all of life's boring responsibilities, you don't think about anything except your next hit. They also love the whole ritual of it, from copping to cooking it up to tying off, then on to securing their next hit. It's a perpetual adolescence.
No one accidently becomes an addict, you have to do it every day for weeks, It's a commitment that a lot of people find glamourous. One myth that is wrong is that it is bad for you, yes street dope cut with toxic additives can destroy a healthy body, but an addict with a clean, steady supply will have no adverse effects from the drug.
[quote]No one accidently becomes an addict, you have to do it every day for weeks, It's a commitment that a lot of people find glamourous.
WTF is glamorous about it? It's disgusting. And they KNOW it will likely destroy them. I just don't get it.
Also, I had no idea it took "commitment" to get hooked. I thought it was once or twice and that's it, you're done. The idea that it takes a concentrated effort to transform into a worthless, walking corpse is even more mind boggling to me.
I like you, r49. I appreciate your passion for your "boy," because I have a boy of my own. The discussion here usually stays far away from passion so your post is a welcome addition.
I have a very stable life, no addictions (other than my little man), but I recognize the connection between passion, art, and intoxicants.
R46, Is that why so many are addicted to sugar, while others dislike it? I dislike fatty food, others crave it. What makes some addicted to drugs or alcohol, and others to high adrenaline behavior, like sky diving?
Would be curious of your results, and thanks for posting.
certain drugs, for some people, bring out traumas and repressed angry/sadness.
if you have a bad emotional experience from drugs, to me it means you have to clean your body throught alternative therapies. Our cells register everything we've lived.
Of course there are people so disconnected with their deep emotions that even using drugs there's a barrel not allowing to face them, and so they can enjoy it. But it's an illusion.
drugs is ok!, our body fabricates drugs too, so there are techniques to induce its production in a natural way. Meditation, aerobic exercising, yoga, etc.
weed is wonderful, if done right. Tabacco too, same. They are closed to Mother Earth. The less is better, do it as fewer as possible. I try weed two times a year and feel great this way.
Once you start, you can't stop. It's very hard to quit heroin. That's why Cory Monteith and Billie Holiday died so young.
Can't comprehend on why people would start, when you know it's a death wish...a slow one!
People must live with the consequences of their choices. No one FORCES anyone to take a drug, to take a drink, to stick that needle in the first time. A thousand different reasons, causes, from genetic predisposition to addiction to peer pressure, to depression to being "weak willed." Sweeping judgments are meaningless.
Life is what it is. But no one can get around having to live with the consequences of taking drugs. Cory Monteith is the latest example. A life not even half lived. You want to play with the devil? You will most likely experience hell. Eventually. And by hell I mean the time HERE on earth when the addiction happens. I don't think, personally, that a "war on drugs" ever has worked or will. People are going to do what they are going to do. It's not so much about ignorance as to the effects of drugs or how they kill as it is people who just wish to make that choice.
I am reminded of the book about Nancy Spungen. "And I Don't Want to Live This Life." Some people just find life too painful, too scary or too unappealing to do it without drugs. It's slow suicide.
R46, I started a new thread, like I always do per request, to explore the topic of testing for chemical imbalances that lead to drug addiction.
The devil made me do it the first time,
Second time I done it on my own.
VA hospitals and other medical institutions don't run psych-ops on just the ex-military. Damn this wireless nation!!
One of the best descriptions I heard about what it's like to do heroin was in a documentary about the model Gia. A woman described it in a way I could actually see what the appeal to them was...what it was...like...how it was different from other drugs for them. And I've never done any drugs..but it was so eloquent and pungent that I could see for them where it took them.
This morning's NY Times article was very upsetting.
Gee, OP...I don't know! Maybe because it makes you feel really good? What with it being a RECREATIONAL DRUG and all...
Also: addiction. Look it up.
mmmK? Any more dumb fucking questions?
Here is how a friend described the experience:
[quote]We sit on the floor in a circle with a bucket. We would do our heroin, throw up in the bucket, and then pass out.
The New York Times article is indeed scary. Must read!
Thank you r63.
Passion and expressions of love do seem to be outlawed here. I am not always on a high. I love my boy. We do just fine. He loves me too. It's an art.
Wishing you and yours all the best.