I see conservatives spouting these stats... Harsher gun control laws in states = more crime. Less gun control in states = less crime. You're not more likely to die from a gun if you own one. US stats are on the side of the NRA.
I've actually seen the graphs, and they pretty much back that up.
I'm guessing we have a bunch of isolated incidents then?
Untrue. The states with the lowest guns have the lowest crime. There is an effort by NRA types to compare big cities with poverty, social stress, and gun control (but many guns) to quiet towns where violence is rare, but even these have to be doctored to work. Houston, for example, has more murders than New York City and it is clear that more guns is the cause.
actually, I believe that New Hampshire or Maine (both very thinly populated places ) have the lowest gun ownership and lowest homicide rates.
A really big pink elephant in this discussion room is that BY AND LARGE the greatest form of gun-ralted homicides are actually suicides.
Actually, the cause of more murders in Houston lately was the influx of Katrina refugees. We know that because non-gun homicides also rose after they arrived. That's been well documented.
I do agree with you overall, though, that higher rates of gun use and ownership are correlated with greater crime and death.
Just look at Chicago or DC. Gun crimes are rampant, while the gun laws are onerous.
Death by firearms is the lowest it's ever been, and it's gone down dramatically in the last ten years.
"Gun-related deaths significantly lower than 20 years ago, study finds"
SALT LAKE CITY — Gun-related murders have dropped by nearly half since the early 1990s, according to a new study released by the Pew Research Center.
The report comes on the heels of legislators around the country attempting to pass legislation to combat the proliferation of so-called "assault weapons" in the hands of American citizens. Lawmakers cite the tragic shootings in Aurora, Colo., and Newtown, Conn., as recent examples of why firearms need to be more regulated.
The report shows that gun-related deaths were highest in 1993, when there were approximately seven deaths per 100,000 Americans. The rate significantly dropped to 3.8 deaths per 100,000 by 2000, and continues to fall, dropping to 3.6 deaths per 100,000 in 2010.
"Compared with 1993," the report states, "the peak of U.S. gun homicides, the firearm homicide rate was 49 percent lower in 2010, and there were fewer deaths, even though the nation's population grew."
The study also found that violent crimes involving a firearm also decreased, seeing a 75 percent drop in crimes.
"The victimization rate for other violent crimes with a firearm — assaults, robberies and sex crimes — was 75 percent lower in 2011 than in 1993," the report says. "Violent non-fatal crime victimization overall (with or without a firearm) also is down markedly (72 percent) over two decades."
The rates dropped most in the late ‘90s, as lawmakers passed federal legislation — Federal Assault Weapons Ban — in 1994 to prohibit the purchasing of semi-automatic firearms. The ban, however, expired in 2004 and there has been no increase in gun-related deaths, according to the study.
"Looking back 50 years, the U.S. gun homicide rate began rising in the 1960s, surged in the 1970s, and hit peaks in 1980 and the early 1990s," the study says. "The plunge in homicides after that meant that firearm homicide rates in the late 2000s were equal to those not seen since the early 1960s.
"The sharp decline in the U.S. gun homicide rate, combined with a slower decrease in the gun suicide rate, means that gun suicides account for six-in-10 firearms deaths," the study continues, "the highest share since at least 1981."
Despite the recent attention of gun-related deaths, and the nationwide attempts to curb the sale of semi-automatic firearms and high capacity magazines, Pew found that many Americans are unaware of the lower crime rates. In a recent survey, Pew found that 56 percent of Americans believe gun crime is higher than 20 years ago. It found that only 12 percent of Americans believed gun crimes were lower.
Nevertheless, mass shootings are still a public concern, and deserve attention, Pew said. However, Pew found that such violent acts were a "relatively small share of shootings overall."
There are so many factors at work that it is hard to approach this matter honestly. For instance, how important is law enforcement, and is there ready access to external guns from areas with strict gun control?
Generally speaking, though, American rates for robbery and assault are about comparable with much of the developed world, while the incidence of use of guns in crimes is vastly higher here. That is not a coincidence, of course.
You're not more likely to die from your own gun, or shoot someone you love. The facts are not on the side of the gun control lobby.
R5, that's because of better trauma care, not because of less gun violence.
Isn't the drop in violent crime (gun crime included) a direct result of the lower birthrate, especially for urban minorities, starting in the 1970's? I thought it had been proven that fewer 18-24 year olds equals lower crime rates?
Which of course was a by-product of legalizing abortion, something the right doesn't want to acknowledge.
Data from a US mortality follow-back survey were analyzed to determine whether having a firearm in the home increases the risk of a violent death in the home and whether risk varies by storage practice, type of gun, or number of guns in the home. Those persons with guns in the home were at greater risk than those without guns in the home of dying from a homicide in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 1.9, 95% confidence interval: 1.1, 3.4). They were also at greater risk of dying from a firearm homicide, but risk varied by age and whether the person was living with others at the time of death. The risk of dying from a suicide in the home was greater for males in homes with guns than for males without guns in the home (adjusted odds ratio = 10.4, 95% confidence interval: 5.8, 18.9). Persons with guns in the home were also more likely to have died from suicide committed with a firearm than from one committed by using a different method (adjusted odds ratio = 31.1, 95% confidence interval: 19.5, 49.6). Results show that regardless of storage practice, type of gun, or number of firearms in the home, having a gun in the home was associated with an increased risk of firearm homicide and firearm suicide in the home.
[quote]Just look at Chicago or DC. Gun crimes are rampant, while the gun laws are onerous.
DC doesn't have onerous gun laws!
[quote]Isn't the drop in violent crime (gun crime included) a direct result of the lower birthrate, especially for urban minorities, starting in the 1970's? I thought it had been proven that fewer 18-24 year olds equals lower crime rates?
I actually used to believe this, but it was proven to be flawed, thus not proven.
The US is not that far different from Canada when it comes to crime, which is why Michael Moore received such a backlash, trying to make it that Canada was so much safer thanks to harsh gun laws. It's just not true.
I don't own a gun, btw, and find the NRA to be repulsive.
Then why did 30 armed SWAT cops arrest this man for merely posting a video of loading a shotgun in DC?
Adam Kokesh and libertarian activists expected to provoke a police response when he posted a video of himself apparently loading a shotgun on Freedom Plaza in violation of D.C. law on the Fourth of July, but it arrived on his doorstep with an overwhelming boom Tuesday night.
A U.S. Park Police SWAT team and other officers knocked on the door of his single-family home on a quiet Herndon cul-de-sac, then kicked the door in and tossed a flash grenade into the foyer as police helicopters whirled overhead, his roommates said.
A video posted on YouTube that appears to show activist Adam Kokesh loading a shotgun in Freedom Plaza.
Boondoggles and busts: Big government messes: Here’s a list of a few questionable government payouts.
The rabble-rouser and Iraq war veteran who promised “we will not obey” on the video and has advocated for overthrow of the government “by whatever means necessary” was removed in handcuffs and charged with possession of hallucinogenic mushrooms while possessing a firearm, according to court papers. His housemates allege that they were mistreated by police, who they say used too much force.
Park Police Lt. Pamela Smith said the agency has “chosen not to respond” to those allegations because of the ongoing investigation. Park Police also would not comment on the roommates’ characterization of what happened inside the home. It was unclear if charges would be filed related to the July 4 video on YouTube.
In Washington, D.C., all firearms must be registered with the police, by the terms of the Firearms Control Regulations Act of 1975.
The same law also prohibited the possession of handguns, even in private citizens' own homes, unless they were registered before 1976. However, the handgun ban was struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court in the 2008 case District of Columbia v. Heller. The Supreme Court ruled that the Second Amendment acknowledges and guarantees the right of the individual to possess and carry firearms, and therefore D.C.'s ban on handguns was unconstitutional.
Following the Heller decision, the Washington D.C. City Council enacted a set of rules regulating the possession of handguns in citizens' homes. In addition to each handgun being registered with the police, the rules require that D.C. residents undergo a background check and submit fingerprints. The firearms registry photographs the applicant. Residents must take an online gun safety course, and pass a written test on the District's gun laws. Residents must also declare where it will be kept.
that doesn't sound onerous
Oh, great. We're now enjoying the company of gay gun fetishists with the collective IQ of a warm tub of snot. And/or Libertarians, with an even lower IQ rating.
Yes, all gay people should give up guns and allow people with guns to kill, rape and steal from them.
Oink pistols are idiots. I've never had a gun, and I've never ever needed one. And I'm 47
Same (almost) here. In 40 years I've never NEEDED one. But I'll be damned if when I DO need one that the government keeps it from me.
"The US is not that far different from Canada when it comes to crime, which is why Michael Moore received such a backlash, trying to make it that Canada was so much safer thanks to harsh gun laws. It's just not true."
Wrong, wrong, wrong.
"In 40 years I've never NEEDED one. But I'll be damned if when I DO need one that the government keeps it from me."
If you don't need a gun then why the fuck do you care?
"Yes, all gay people should give up guns and allow people with guns to kill, rape and steal from them"
Yeah, let's give guns to conservative rednecks who wouldn't hesitate to use those guns to shoot gay people!
R21, that is idiocy. You clearly don't deserve one.
Look at the mix of "gun deaths" matrix at the link.
A more granular view shows that these deaths occur in inner cities.
Most LEGAL gun owners are outside these areas.
Most of these areas are populated by people who are 2nd, 3rd or even 4th generation welfare recipients, white and black.
The constant flow of "easy money" is addictive. Look at how many fucked up "Trust fund" kids we see dying.
A single woman with 2 kids earning 29k a year would have to earn 69k/yr to make up for the "loss of benefits" from welfare. Therefore you have a "negative incentive" to earn any more money or advance in their career.
The fact that drugs, gambling and prostitution are illegal (the only way that most people can make enough to live, while giving cops a reason to harass and imprison black men, and giving the prison-industrial complex more power) is a big factor in this cycle of poverty.
If you would open your eyes you could see that the "povertypimps" aka "limo liberals" want to keep black people in the ghetto so they can get votes.
And that single woman is not causing gun violence R25.
"Actually, the cause of more murders in Houston lately was the influx of Katrina refugees. We know that because non-gun homicides also rose after they arrived. That's been well documented."
This is completely untrue. That was 8 years ago and a good half of them have returned to N.O.
Anyway, NYC has far more social stress than Houston, with its low unemployment and job growth. The difference in Houston is the widespread ownership of guns and the propensity to use them.
[quote] Following the Heller decision, the Washington D.C. City Council enacted a set of rules regulating the possession of handguns in citizens' homes. In addition to each handgun being registered with the police, the rules require that D.C. residents undergo a background check and submit fingerprints. The firearms registry photographs the applicant. Residents must take an online gun safety course, and pass a written test on the District's gun laws. Residents must also declare where it will be kept.
That isn't unreasonable
[quote]Wrong, wrong, wrong.
That's not an answer, dumbfuck.
[quote]Oink pistols are idiots. I've never had a gun, and I've never ever needed one. And I'm 47
What does your age have to do with anything?
How much money do you make, and where do you live?
When the government decides that all guns are banned, and you have registered that you have guns, what happens when the cops come and try to take them?
The phrase "out of my cold dead damn hands" comes to mind.
Do you realize, that by posting this I risk being MURDERED by the government? It scares me, but not enough to quit speaking out about how evil and corrupt our government is.
I said this under the Bush Regime, and a lot of posters agreed.
Now that we have a ...I won't say it...in the "white house" these so called "liberals" say that a US Stasi is good...fucking morons.
Now that Zimmerman's trial is over, he gets his gun back.
"That's not an answer, dumbfuck."
Pot paging kettle. Conservatives are the real dumbfucks. Even Republicans think Republicans are dumb - Rick Santorum said smart people don't vote Republican!
[quote]Now that Zimmerman's trial is over, he gets his gun back.
r33, wrong, wrong, wrong!
Now that I've written that three times, I'm right, you're wrong, wrong, wrong!
"Now that I've written that three times, I'm right, you're wrong, wrong, wrong!"
I could say something nasty, but I'll go easy on you because you are obviously developmentally delayed. Your politics are a dead giveaway.
There would be no need for more guns if you just took the weapons away from the colored people.
The fact that you think pro-gun civil rights stance is evidence of delayed development says more about you than R35.
Imagine this- gun ownership becomes illegal, and ALL civilian gun owners- law-abiding and criminal - turn in their guns.
A crazed president takes control (or a military coup) and decides to execute anyone who doesn't pledge fealty to his/her regime. Since all guns are now under the control of the government, resistance is hampered, if not futile.
Now, look at Nazi Germany, circa 1939 (or the north american colonies of 1775) and you will see why private ownership of guns is essential to a free society.
Hitler was the first dictator to implement total gun control, and look what happened.
Compare the US gun & homicide rate with any other country. There is no comparison.
People bring up political fantasy scenarios. They are armed to the teeth - and they do not even have universal healthcare.
Regardless of what you think about guns, the most anti-gay demographic in the USA, is armed to the teeth, more than any other segment of America.
They will never give up those guns. The Gay community has no other option, that does not involve leave the USA permanently. You will never get their guns away from these Tea Party types - the gay community needs to gear up too.
[quote]They will never give up those guns. The Gay community has no other option, that does not involve leave the USA permanently. You will never get their guns away from these Tea Party types - the gay community needs to gear up too.
And you wonder why you're still single.
[quote]Now that we have a ...I won't say it...in the "white house" these so called "liberals" say that a US Stasi is good...fucking morons.
A "what" in the White House, R30? Remember, I'm a "fucking moron," too thick to understand your elliptical thoughts.
Oh dammit. I'll say it.
We've got a [bold]HAWAIIAN[/bold] in the White House!
R42- the ellipses meant fucking moron, so you should promote yourself to fucking slightly retarded. Congrats.
The race-baiting by the Obama administration (and especially by Holder's (IN)Justice Department) is sickening. The mere fact that they are "considering Federal charges" shows how they are using this to promote racial intolerance, and win votes.
They don't care that black men are 20 times more likely to be sent to prison for petty marijuana possession, or that NYC can "Stop and Frisk" young black men at a rate of 90 to 1 to young white men (despite NUMEROUS studies showing higher drug use amongst young white men) but they can score political points by jumping on a "high profile" case of a moronic wannabe cop following a drug using, violent, pompous thug that results in the thug getting killed after attacking the wannabe and then cry "RACISM!"
Zimmerman should have been charged with manslaughter. A plea deal would have stopped this from becoming a big thing. Instead they went for 2nd degree murder, even though every legal expert on CNN, MSNBC and FOX said that it would result in an acquittal. The fact that the prosecution withheld evidence from the defense makes it even worse.
Look back at the videos- the (non-racist) legal experts all called it as soon as they decided to pursue M2. They knew the State of Florida couldn't cross that barrier.
Zimmerman was wrong, but he has been acquitted. No federal court is going to even look at this case.
The saddest, sickest, and most fucking goddamn relevant fact- if Zimmerman had a FUCKING BADGE then this would just be a page 4 blurb in the local paper. Cops kill innocent people - young and old, black and white, male and female, innocent as Jesus or guilty as Sin EVERY FUCKING DAY and get away with it because the government protects them because they're "heroes". Bullshit. They're thugs with badges. Fuck them all.
It makes me sick- you people (commie socialist crybabies) refuse to see the evil of the government even when it kicks you in the 'nads.
Look at Bradley Manning, Ed Snowden, and other whistleblowers who have exposed how our government is spying on EVERY FUCKING PHONE CALL AND EMAIL YOU SEND. They are treated as war criminals, and Obama can assassinate them via drone at his whim. That's fucked up.
Consider how the Clinton- Bush- Obama administrations have attacked and imprisoned people dying of cancer, or AIDS, just because they used Marijuana dispensaries that were legal in their states.
Think about how the big banks- CitiCorp, Bank of Amerika, Goldman Sucks, JPMorgan, etc. - all got trillions in bailouts in 2008--- to Save The Country From COLLAPSE!- and now 6 years later the economy is even worse.
People like you, R42, who worship the government and refuse to see the danger of unlimited power, or the corrosive effect it has...I wish I could feel sorry for you. So, instead I say FUCK YOU!
"The race-baiting by the Obama administration (and especially by Holder's (IN)Justice Department) is sickening"
The race-baiting by freepers is sickening.
"It makes me sick- you people (commie socialist crybabies) refuse to see the evil of the government even when it kicks you in the 'nads."
Gotta love the redneck, low IQ losers who think anyone with sensible views is a "socialist"
You freepers sure love to bash the goverment but you don't seem to mind using the government to discriminate against people you don't like. It's freepers like you who use the government to punish gays, not "socialists"
"Now, look at Nazi Germany, circa 1939 (or the north american colonies of 1775) and you will see why private ownership of guns is essential to a free society"
ROFLMAO. The government has drones, bombs, and more weapons than you could ever dream of...do you think your guns stand a chance?
So glad to see you support the Nazis.
"If I had a son he would look like Trayvon" isn't race baiting?
Good god you're a fucking stupid cunt.
In any societal collapse, Government weapons fall into the hands of the rebels at an accelerated rate. Stopping this, is the main problem of the Government Imperialists. Read up on your history.
During WW2, the French underground was armed with stolen Nazi weapons at a rate of 40 X that of smuggled British weapons.
In any event, I don't think the fall of the US Government is the gay communities concern here, lets leave that to the Tea Party types. The concern of the gay community, is self defense in an increasing angrier America, looking for outlets for that anger.
[quote]concern of the gay community, is self defense in an increasing angrier America
you sound crazy-paranoid! an angrier america? just step outside, walk around the block, go get a coffee, but GET THE FUCK OVER YOURSELF
So glad to see the resident racist gay gun fetishist defending his idiotic positions.
He's a dipshit, but at least he's a consistent dipshit.
Not every gay American lives in NYC or San Fransisco. A lot of these anti-gun Marys forget that.
Things are very different in Montana, Alabama and Tennessee.
[quote]Things are very different in Montana, Alabama and Tennessee.
Thanks, but I'll pass on the barbecued squirrel.
These poor souls have no clue. They've never gone bird huntin' with their dad and brother and cousins, let alone taken their boyfriend (who is a better shot than said family) and felt both proud and jealous that the boyfriend got all the best shots!
They've never had the joy of their dad asking when they were bringing their boyfriend over to shoot skeet, or telling them that he's proud that they've found someone so great to spend their life with.
They've never had the satisfaction of their mom telling them that she and dad like their boyfriend more than their daughter in law and pressuring them to get married.
They are the same fools who will be helpless when bread costs $20 a loaf and can't understand why the government just can't DO SOMETHING.
The government has done something- it has made a nation of helpless ninnies that will be shocked when their government can't rescue them.
You are very lucky to have a family like that R54. Many flee to the cities, who otherwise would have stayed, to escape the alternative reality.
I am lucky. My family has been VERY supportive of my partner. His family sucks, and without my family I don't know if he would be here today.
Until you've gone bird huntin' with your dad, brother, cousins and boyfriend then you can't judge.
Well, the fact that I tried to make pâté with wild quail on a Foreman camping stove might have caused some judgment issues, but they're at least sort of supportive.
[quote]Things are very different in Montana, Alabama and Tennessee.
I WEEP for you. I do.
Now grow some balls and quit thinking a fucking gun is the answer to your sorry ass problems!
As a young man-- 9, 10 YO-- my daddy taught me never to point a gun, even one I "thought" was unloaded (no matter how many times I checked the barrel) at ANYTHING I didn't want dead.
I've never pointed a gun- and never, ever will point a gun- at anything, or anyone, that I don't want dead. I respect guns. I would never use one unless I had no choice.
I think Zimmerman was a bully. I also think he was 99% right when he used that gun in self defense against a guy who was bashing his head into concrete.
TMartin was a violent thug who had trained in MMA and got kicked out of his family home for fighting. Zimmerman is a wannabe cop with a little dick.
If Zim had a badge then the government would never have brought it to trial- they protect their enforcer-thugs and it doesn't matter how many innocent black kids they kill. The government IS the law!
That said- like 99.9% of my fellow gun owners, any attempt by the government to take them will end badly, for everyone. I pray that the gov never tries to confiscate my guns.
[quote]I think Zimmerman was a bully. I also think he was 99% right when he used that gun in self defense. . .
You're extremely dense then. I really couldn't care less about your "tales" of your daddy and you gun. You're wrong and inure as guilty as Zimmerman .
May you soon die by your own gun, son, you've proven that you deserve it.
[quote]I think Zimmerman was a bully. I also think he was 99% right when he used that gun in self defense against a guy who was bashing his head into concrete.
Who invited the racist, gun-loving idiots to DL tonight?
[quote]As a young man-- 9, 10 YO-- my daddy taught me never to point a gun, even one I "thought" was unloaded
R58, your daddy was a sick fuck for exposing a 9-10 year old child to guns.
R61, I shot my first gun at 5 years of age (22 caliber revolver) and had my own BB gun. I was hunting ground hog by 9 years. At 13 I fired my first fully automatic (machine gun).
You are very naive about gun culture R61.
Wow, I thought being gay would give you at least a basic level of intelligence, but some of you are spouting NRA talking points with the same fervor as a Tea Partier. The idea that an average person needs a gun for self-defense is NRA propaganda, period. Guns escalate violence they don't reduce it. The only place they belong is with law enforcement who are trained to use them. Otherwise we get racists like Zimmerman mowing down a guy because he's the wrong color or kids killing their grandparents. Get a clue, people.
guns kill, that's it
I own a gun for sport. Love to target shoot once or twice a month. I just don't understand why most queens are terrified of them. Before you judge me, go to a range and spend half an hour target shooting, you just might be amazed at how exhilarating shooting a gun is.
[quote]how exhilarating shooting a gun is
Thanks for your input Mr Zimmerman.
R63, all the racist, homophobic right wing nutcases are ALREADY ARMED to the teeth in the USA.
You are the one defending yourself with a salad fork. If that is is OK with you, fine.
you're an idiot.
Yeah, r67, and the best way for YOU to die is to pull a gun on a racist, homophobic asshole. There are extremely few examples of when concealed weapons actually save lives. This is another NRA fantasy. More guns just make things worse.
I don't think that would be a problem R69. I was trained how to properly defend myself, in any situation, in the Airforce.
Yes, guns and training need to go hand in hand. Real training, not training by Billy-Bob at Guns & Pizza at exit 270 off I95.
[quote]Wow, I thought being gay would give you at least a basic level of intelligence
Me too. I can't believe that some of the posters here are too stupid to not own a couple of guns, know how to shoot them, and be able to defend themselves.
Pussies like you, R63, make us look bad. Please turn in your gay card.
[quote] are too stupid to not own a couple of guns
you're the idiot. only pussies believe a gun is going to defend them.