My policy with anyone having pronoun issues is to eschew pronouns entirely when speaking about them, a la Bob Dole.
"Chrys, would Chrys like another serving of pie? I'll send some home with Chrys if Chrys would like. I'll just wrap it up and leave it by Chrys' coat so Chrys won't forget it."
All wars are culture wars.
R1 is spot on-- EXHAUSTING! This is just the pomposity of thinking too much. Some people adjust and find their way and others truly believe the world owes them something. Like a lot of my fellow gay folk, I find people with gender issues have an strange mix of self-loathing and self-importance. Just don't get in my face cuz I wasn't aware of what set of rules you were living with today.
She should go by the pronoun eww.
I have no problem with someone picking the pronouns that best who they are, but you don't get to completely dismantle a language's grammatical system, and then play the martyr about it.
best fit who they are*
I blame tumblr
R6 is why we need a like button.
Ou? The French word for who?
[quote] Ou? The French word for who?
No, the French word for "or".
Or "where", if it is spelled "où".
Thanks, R15. I actually know what ou means but for some reason wrote down the wrong word. I'm ashamed of myself.
How transgressive and boring ou is.
This idea you can just make up your own pronouns out of thin air and demand other people call you by them is such bullshit.
I am such a special snowflake you have to use made-up pronouns to refer to me! Plus, you have to use lowercase letters to spell my name! I must be treated extra-specially by everyone because I am the center of the universe! It's all about MEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
Everyone realizes there is a very fine line between disdain for genderqueer people and disdain for gays and Lesbians?
If the net results of the recent US Supreme Court rulings and the end of DADT is a huge gay stampeded to embrace a heterocentric binary culture - well count me out.
Prince had a symbol for a name and some people want to go by ou. It takes all kinds. I have decided to jump on the bandwagon however my name is actually an action. If you wish to address me, you must do so by lightly sliding your tongue across my butthole. That is how I will now be addressed.
Gay and lesbian rights are an important issue for anyone who cares about fairness and basic human dignity, R20.
Genderqueer pomo nonsense is an important issue for queer theory students who aspire to tenure-track positions at shitty liberal arts colleges.
You GO ou!
Could someone explain exactly what genderqueer is? I read her explanation but it just sounded like a girl with some tomboy tendencies and a non-existent sex drive.
Further evidence that "gay" or "lesbian" or "gay and lesbian" is more than adequate -- and that those left out are best left out for reasons more numerous than the alphabet soup that in strings that begin with LGBTQIA and descend further into madness.
And prefer a lowercase name and "i" instead of "I"? Then fuck off, too, you insufferable ass.
Calling a genderqueer person "ou" can be really stigmatizing.
Just ask poor Glenn.
[quote]It's all about MEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
lowercase, r19. lowercase!
R20 - Why?
It wasn't only 40 years ago that homosexuality stopped being considered a mental illness.
You're showing a tolerance and understanding of gays and Lesbians which you are not willing to extend to the genderqueer. With no explanation other than bigotry.
R28, R20 is extending more than mere tolerance to the genderqueer. Read his/her post again.
Disregard my post at R29. I should really use Troll-dar more often.
Recognitioun of langouage rape is nout the same as bigoutry, R28.
xoJane, when I say, "Listen, sister," it means I'm about to slap you for being a tiresome twit, not because I am commenting on your purported gender.
Don't you love preciosity?
Ou sounds like a raging count. ( or would ou prefer to be called "countess"?
[quote]Everyone realizes there is a very fine line between disdain for genderqueer people and disdain for gays and Lesbians?
I don't disdain people for *being* genderqueer/non-gender-conforming, but I'll admit to feeling disdain for genderqueer individuals who not only find their own gender identity so obsessively fascinating and important that they seem to spend 90% of their time exploring, defining, talking and writing about it, but also expect the whole rest of the world to give enough of a shit to get on board with made-up pronouns, etc.
If you're biologically male but identify as female—or vice versa—and wish to be addressed and referred to that way, using the pronouns that have sufficed since your native language was invented, great. Beyond that, I frankly doubt that there is a person alive who feels completely, 100% masculine or feminine every minute of every day, but is defining the exact nature of our gender identities really that fucking important or interesting that we need to make up labels for ourselves as though everyone's gender identity was its own special blend of artisanal coffee? Cannot you not just feel however you feel and present yourself however you please without requiring the world to validate your feelings and recognize your super-specialness with a silly-ass pronoun just for you?
And, yes, I feel the same disdain toward those gay people (and I know they exist because they pop up here on DL from time to time) who feel that their particular brand of homosexuality deserves its own special label--or, at least, does not fall under the label "gay"— because they are just too masculine/feminine/cool/whatever for the rest of the gay community.
[quote]Prince had a symbol for a name
Yes, and people understandably made fun it of it all the time.
I *heart* R35.
I heart r35 too.
[quote]It wasn't only 40 years ago that homosexuality stopped being considered a mental illness.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder however, is still on the books.
I voted r35 for W&W.
I volunteer with an organization that helps LGBTQIA youth that takes PGP seriously but it's always 'he/him' and 'she/her'.
If you refuse to refer to me as "ou," you are exactly the equivalent of those Wyoming men who beat Matthew Shepard to death! There is no difference!
I volunteered with GLAAD during the Brandon Teena/Teena Brandon murder. The linguistic gymnastics that they went through to use the "correct" pronoun made the whole story impossible to understand.
R42, not an exact equivalent. You are still talking.
R42 is a complete moron. Not only that, she/he is also extremely offensive, comparing him/herself not being referred to by the obscure word "ou" or not having his/her initials in lower case to being kicked to death. Disgusting.
All this fuss when English already has a gender-neutral pronoun "it" and a gender-neutral, possessive pronoun "its."
As in: "XoJane must not have gotten enough attention when it was a child."
It's pretty obvious that r42 was joking.
I think R42 is joking.
Just a hunch.
R45, I may be wrong, but I think R42 was being sarcastic.
r35 got it.
It's revolting to assume the whole world should change the way it speaks just for some fragile little flowers who obsesses over his gender. Get a hobby!
ou is oneness. ou is nature. ou is the past. ou is the future. ou is me. ou is she. ou is he. ou is we.
What kind of fucking magazine is that?
Engraged 24/7, like another group.
Genderqueers - are they sociopaths?
ou is a fucking idiot, R51.
sociopaths or "narcissistic personality disorder," R54
It did occur to me that r42 might have been sarcastic but so many people are sarcastic on DL and it still gets misconstrued so I decided not to think about it too much and just get angry.
R51 makes "ou" sound like a cheap perfume.
What is a "genderqueer"? Obviously not a homosexual. Is it a tranny? An effem-inate?
It is a person who rejects its own gayness. Or ou own gayness.
So a heterosexual then.
What does the IA stand for, R41?
I hate this crap/
[quote]What does the IA stand for, [R41]?
R59, a genderqueer is a feminine man or a masculine woman. When you peel back all the pomo posturing, that's basically all there is to the concept.
But such prosaic descriptions provide woefully insufficient validation of the genderqueer's uniqueness, hence the insistence that's one's moderate divergences from one's social gender role makes one not really a man or a woman at all, and is in fact so revolutionary as to require a restructuring of language as we know it.
Has someone covered the pronunciation of the neologism yet? Does it have the vowel sound of "you" or "south"?
One article I read when I first heard about genderqueer was about young genderqueer women voluntarily having their breasts surgically removed.
Don't forget to add TSFNP to the list !
Here in Canada it's n
what gay Indians want to be called this week.
Two-Spirited First Nation People
Seriously, wouldn't the "genderqueers," transsexuals and everything that comes after the "B" in "GlBTQIA" be happier and better off if they split off into their own group. I support their rights and everything, but they really have nothing to do with "gay rights."
I support equal rights for African-Americans, but you don't see anyone lumping them in with gay rights. A gay person can still be "gender normative" or whatever that word is. All I know is I'm attracted to men, not female acting males or females dressed like or turned into males.
It's time to split off and let us focus on gay rights and let them focus on their rights.
Whenever I browse books like gay anthologies, I check the bios.
More than one "____ ___ (name that is probably unpronouncable, and half made-up) is a genderqueer poet..."
.. I put the book down. Such "artists" always, ALWATS bleat on and on about being oppressed because the world doesn't like his/her/its pretentious nose ring persona.
It's true R65, or they're androgynous men or women.
I have met a lot of trans people R69 who agree with you who don't like being lumped in with gay men, bisexual men and women, and lesbians.
What about the pedohiles? Are they insisting on their own pronoun as well?
I mean beside "b0i" in their Grindr profiles .
R72 I thought a boi was a young adult (18-25) twink that's queenie/femme?
R73, So did I until I met the 6TH "b0i" in a row on grindr who was still partying from when Lindberg landed in Paris.
it's the gender identity disordered gays that ruin it for the majority of normal gays
[quote]Tango = (ou)(ou)
Holy cissexism Batman!
Ou may be the beauty or the beast
May be the famine or the feast
May turn each day into a heaven or a hell
Ou may be the mirror of my dreams
The smile reflected in a stream
Ou may not be what ou may seem
Inside her shell
..la la la
R78, I found myself reading that in an Edith Sitwell voice.
The thing about SE isn't that they reject gendered pronouns, it's that they basically invented their own pronoun and throw a fit anytime anyone uses any of the more commonplace gender-neutral pronouns. I mean, "ze" and "zir" are very commonplace within the community SE exists in, but those terms apparently aren't good enough for such a special snowflake.
"ze" makes me think of Pepé Le Pew
Oh all this is just silly now ladies and gents...
[quote] I frankly doubt that there is a person alive who feels completely, 100% masculine or feminine every minute of every day
I scream with amazonian anger at the violation of my gender boundary!!!!
The penised hoodlum R35 - RAPIST 35 - attempts to push his patriarchal tyranny and ritualized submission upon 100% womyn-born-womyn!
Sisters arise!!!! Like tom toms I pound my mighty breasts with thunderous righteousness: trauma bonding, poetry reading, and vaginal justice shall prevail!!!!
GODAMMIT I hadn't heard of Genderqueer before. Does this mean LGBT is not going to have to be LGBTGQ? When does it end?
[quote]Ou is most happy when ou has an opportunity to rile people up while also informing them about ongoing issues in the world around them, and adores any opportunity to discuss pop culture.
This preferred pronouns crap is just tumblr special-snowflake self-important baloney. Sad thing is gays and lesbians get mixed in with these attention seeking women (let's be real, it's always women).
It's hardly only women.
I've never seen a man w/ "preferred pronouns", just whackadoo tumblr women. I could be wrong, I just haven't seen it.
[quote]I've never seen a man w/ "preferred pronouns", just whackadoo tumblr women. I could be wrong, I just haven't seen it.
There was a news story a few weeks ago about a kid from the Bay Area that was attacked (I think lit on on fire) because of gender issues. I think the kid was biologically male, but the dad had written an editorial about the attack on Huffington Post, and said the "preferred pronoun" was "they."
The Voice of the Night
Agree with R69...it's time to separate us gays & lesbians from this transgender issue. They need to form their own lobbies & groups. True gender dysphoria has nothing to do with sexual orientation.
As for this particular "ou" thingie, DLers are getting it spot-on. It's ridiculous to pander publicly & try to accommodate each individual's cry for attention. Special snowflakes need to get a life.
I wish CUNT was a pronoun.
Sexual orientation and gender identity have nothing to do with each other, and lot of trans people would consider themselves straight. LGB with T never made much sense anyway.
It's all Tumblr bullshit. And it's tiresome. It has nothing to do with real life, and it never will when they finish college.
Nuke Tumblr from orbit.
I think the LGB has already dropped the T. And/or that the T has never really been part of the LGB. Now that moneyed conservative male lifetime closeted autogynephiles -like right-wing Republican Billionaire James “Jennifer” Prizker- are “coming out” I expect the transgender movement to completely separate from the LGB. Lesbians and Gays have zero interest in funding a gender movement which as you observe is inherently anti-gay and anti-woman.
Now that DOMA and DADT have been overturned the GBL movement is seeing the light at the end of the tunnel in terms of achieving equality for homosexual people. Through decades of sacrifice by scores of individuals being “out” and proud in the face of discrimination- absorbing immeasurable suffering and economic deprivation- lesbians and gays have on the whole successfully integrated into society. The transgender fight to be recognized as being something other than what one is: the “UnPride” movement is something that lesbians and gays have no relation to and no intention of funding.
Sometimes, ou bleed.
Hey, I just call it as I see it.
The T attached itself to the GBL because of the history of lesbians and gays who were forced to “pass” as the opposite sex in order to live freely as homosexuals. This attachment benefits the transgender movement, which is largely heterosexual and homophobic and anti-feminist, by capitalizing on the political capital generated by the decades of sacrifice endured by countless lesbians and gays. Including an entire generation of gay men who were allowed to die hideously in a ghastly plague that was ignored by the powers that be.
Without the political capital of the gay movement “endorsing” them, the transgender movement has to stand on its own merits, which are dubious and ill-defined: contradictory, regressive, and in some ways already made obsolete by the feminist and gay rights movements. So the GBL has no interest in the Trans movement but the Trans movement has a great interest in attaching itself to the GBL.
One of the reasons it may appear that the T is still attached to the gay movement is that a paid activist infrastructure was created by lesbians and gays eager to achieve equality. Various activist organizations were funded for decades by the gay movement.
This infrastructure, represented by various orgs: HRC, GLAAD, etc. is facing obsolescence now that gays have achieved integration. The careers of the people who were tasked with integrating homosexuals into society are now facing a loss of purpose and funding. These orgs are largely national, regional, and white and have no interest or expertise or ability to promote integration in other areas of the world like Russia – or hotbeds for anti-gay rape torture and massacre like the middle east, South America and Africa.
Rather than re-tool these orgs for international activism for GBL people these activists are counting on new transgender money and support to continue and sustain their paid activist careers. By re-tooling to represent other non-GBL moneyed western interests (the transgender movement) they hope to maintain their levels of funding, thus saving their orgs and careers.
Whether this strategy will succeed remains to be seen. What they have to offer is the social capital of decades of lesbian and gay sacrifice and the existing political relationships and infrastructure. What they cannot offer is independence and self-creation for the transgender movement.
R35 also gets my love.
Didn't bother to read. Bitch, STFU
Gays have achieved integration??? LOL!!
Yes, all anti-gay discrimination and violence has ended...not! Who writes this shit?!
How is the trans movement inherently anti-gay and anti-women? I don't get it and the writer didn't explain.
There's something a touch ironic about people who complain that "ou" is too complicated and can't be understood, who then praise r35's post even though several sentences make no sense.
R102, agree or disagree, every sentence in R35's post makes perfect sense. Get over yourself.
R90 - you really want to be straight, don't you?
One of the reasons I really like Big Freedia:
[quote]When you read a lot of your press, they refer to you as “she.” But then in the documentary, it seemed like your friends and your family refer to you as “he.” I was wondering if you have a preference for either pronoun.
[quote]I don’t have a preference. It’s whatever everyone is comfortable with. I’m comfortable with myself; I know who I am. So whatever people may wanna say, “he” or “she,” they can do it. My fans prefer “she,” and I’m usually mostly “she,” but my family, that’s my family, they respect me as what I was born as, and they still respect me as who I am, and they just gon’ be all around with “she” and all that. And I love that from my family, that they respect who I am, and they have the option of calling me “he” or “she.” We play all kinds of ways. They be like “Girrrl,” or “Ms. Thing.” They call me all kinds of shit. So I’m used to it all. With the fellas in New Orleans, I’m a lot of ‘em’s dawg. Like, “That’s my dawg.” I’m all around the board, baby, I know who I am. I’m very comfortable with who I am.
Sounds like Freedia's happier with himself, or herself, than this tired "genderqueer."
R104, I don't read R90 that way at all. It really isn't a gay issue, this "genderqueer" business. Where I live, the genderqueers have fucked up a statewide nondiscrimination law with their bathroom issues. And no, I have no desire to be straight, either.
Perhaps, R107. But given the trans' abuse of the English language, I can kind of understand it.
I think R97 is on to something as well.
Exhausting is right.
I'm enraged by the word and concept "genderqueer".
I find some of the hysteria over language exhausting too, but the trans hatred around this place makes me really sad.
The Voice of the Night
There's trans hatred, which is wrong, and then there's hatred of the Tumblr Youth's bullshit reinvention of sexuality to give the kids their special-ness in their Intro to Gender Studies or Queer Theory 101 courses.
"Genderqueer, aromantic, pansexual, demisexual" - none of them are real. And more besides.
A goodish portion of the posts in this thread have been anti-trans. I'm just saying.
As to the latter, I agree that it's annoying, and the added soupçon on Millennial Special Snowflake-itis makes it even moreso, but ultimately it's just people trying to figure out the world and where they fit in it. Would we have been any different if we'd gone through our formative years in the Age of Social Media?
The Voice of the Night
According to its website, "xoJane.com is written by a group of women (and some token males) with strong voices, identities and opinions, many in direct opposition to each other, who are living what they are writing about".
So why is s.e. smith's its Social Justice Editor?
It does get exhausting. I have a few acquaintances who insist on unique/distinct invented pronouns -- ze/zir, v, hu, etc. If you run in lefty circles in NYC, it happens.
Why can't genderqueers hang out on xojane, [italic]which is designed for them[/italic], instead of datalounge?
[quote]It does get exhausting. I have a few acquaintances who insist on unique/distinct invented pronouns -- ze/zir, v, hu, etc. If you run in lefty circles in NYC, it happens.
So is this Genderqueer different than the Genderqueer stuff that Ru did early in his career and that Nina Flowers also says her drag is?
Everyone on this thread is outistic.
Alphabet soup: Where will it end?
I was at a meeting a few months ago, and before Special Snowflake spoke, the moderator made sure to tell the assembled group Snowflake's preferred pronoun (it was he/him not "ou").
R101, the trans movement promotes a regressive view of gender - it is founded on the idea that culturally determined gender roles (the behaviours, attitudes and stereotypes considered appropriate for a man or woman respectively) are a real, biologically based thing. In other words, it pushes the idea of brain sex, which feminists have been fighting against since the 19th century.
Hence, a sex-role non-conforming child (a boy who likes dresses and princess-type things, or a girl who refuses to wear dresses and conform to femininity) may now be identified as 'really' the opposite sex based on their preference for these cultural gender roles. Children like this are now being coached into their new gender identity by specialist gender-identity therapists (who make a great deal of money out of this new field), put on puberty blockers and eventually given cross-sex hormone treatment to prevent them ever developing the characteristics of their chromosomal sex - which renders them sterile.
This development should be particularly worrying to gays and lesbians, as studies have shown (and no doubt many of us recall) that sex-role non-conformity is especially prevalent in children who eventually grow up to be homosexual.
In fact, the WHO recently called this new eagerness to treat gender non-conforming children with sterilising hormone treatments a 're-patholologization of homosexuality' and a form of eugenics.
Quote: '...attaching a medical diagnosis to gender diversity in childhood contradicts WHO’s commitment to respecting rather than pathologizing sexual diversity. Specifically, research indicates it is impossible to reliably distinguish between a gender-variant child who will grow up to become trans and a gender-variant child who will grow up to be gay, lesbian, or bisexual, but not trans. As such, by conflating gender variance and sexual orientation, the proposed GIC category amounts to a re-pathologization of homosexuality.'
R107 & R112...it's not "hate" to advocate that TGs go off & form their own lobbies & advocacy grps, separate & apart from G&Ls. It's a very legitimate point of view.
R122 is absolutely correct.
The trans movement is a movement meant to wipe out gay people.
This whole "genderqueer" topic is an example of political correctness not just gone wild, but absolutely out of its mind.
Since s.e. smith's author photo looks to be a woman wearing a dress, jewelry, black bra, make up and thigh highs, I could see why someone would call her a 'she'.
I'm glad I don't teach at one of those liberal arts colleges that attracts annoying navel gazers who expect me to call someone the pronoun they make up. I call my students by the name they tell me to call them, period. I don't use her or him, just, "Anyone agree or disagree with Chris' statement that...."
I'm sensitive to students who I perceive to be trans or who provide a name that doesn't necessarily go with the external but once again, I just stick to the name they tell me to call them. I don't make any comment of my assumption of their gender identity. I assume that would be fair to transgendered students?
The whole genderqueer thing, oh lordy as someone who was a teen/young adult in the late 80s/early 90s I called myself 'queer' but didn't think one had to specify whether it was due to sexual orientation or gender.
R122 R123 - It wasn't the WHO it was the World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH). Making a series of recommendations to the WHO to be made in the upcoming ICD-11.
The idea is the transgenderism and gender dysphoria are, like being gay, Lesbian or bi, not diseases. Therefore their classification in the ICD-11 needs to be changed.
The point is the way the ICD-10 pathologizes gender non-conforming children is what would lead to a re-patholgizing of homosexuality.
You're attempting to cherry-pick a report done by people who have been working very hard to help families with gender non-conforming children, and the children themselves, to support your own transphobia.
So what is the possessive for of ou? The daft bint.
If it's not a disease, R129, why does it require such extensive medical intervention?
GnRH agonists (which have unknown effects on a child's brain and bone development), followed by lifelong dependency on estrogen or testosterone, and surgery to remove breasts, or replace the penis with a vagina-shaped fistula, build a 'penis' from skin grafts, etc.
All of this is a major cash-cow for the medical/psych industry, and much of it will be inflicted on gender non-conforming kids, many of whom would otherwise have likely grown up to be perfectly happy gay men or lesbians.
The gay community needs to wake up to this.
r131, the medical intervention part is what troubles me too.
Medical treatment for gender dysphoria seems like blaming the victim. There's nothing wrong with a bio female who wants to live like a male, and vice versa. Why does part of the 'treatment' involved dousing your body with hormones, and butchering otherwise functional genitals?
Trans people are just fine as they are.
If he or she is too gender specific, there is always it.
I never got why we had to tack every gender disorder or agenda onto LGB. It seems entirely counterproductive to me. I mean, lets be honest, do most mainstream gays even care?
R131 - you're trying to simplify a complicated situation.
If you want an explanation read the report from the website you referenced.
Let me ask you a question to answer your simple question. Since when does medical or surgical intervention identify something as a disease?
You also seem to be missing the point which is that a gender non-conforming child doesn't have a disease and may well end up being a happy well adjusted gay man, Lesbian or bisexual man or woman. Not that all gender non-conforming children are gay, lesbian or bisexual.
The young black woman who removed the creepy white tranny from the ladies' restroom is still sitting in prison. Her side of the story was that creepy white tranny was waving his dick around in full view of her daughter.
I believe her.
And now she has a record. But the media cares nothing for what she and her daughter went through, and gave full sympathy to the MALE who was in the LADIES room.
This country is sick and tired of political correctness and pandering to the lowest of the low dingbats. Therefore, I think that the gay movement will leave the transsexual thing behind.
When I was growing up, gender non-conforming girls were called tomboys, and it was left at that. Some discovered later on that they were gay, while many turned out straight, got married and had a bunch of kids. Now, it seems that girls with masculine traits and interests are being pushed prematurely toward thinking they're FTM.
There's an article on that site from SE talking about how they went to college aged 15. Not because they were smart and accomplished enough to have graduated early, just because they were bored with high school and decided to drop out. So a terminal case of special snowflakeitis, I think.
Yes R137 - I'm sure that's true.
I bet they also said all a homosexual man needed was the love of good woman.
What else did they say?
Did they talk about the evils of masturbation?
Or maybe about jobs women can't do because they are so emotional?
Oh piss off, R139... sometimes common sense actually prevails. The tomboy point is a valid one...
R140 - It's not a legitimate point.
The idea that gender non-conforming girls used to either grow up to be Lesbians or turned out to be straight is idiotic.
Denying the existence of transgendered people is the equivalent of denying the existence of LGBs.
I'm just going to assume you and R137 are straight and have no insight or understanding of anyone who isn't like you.
Take two minutes and step outside your comfortable position in the majority culture - and at least think about what it might be like for other people.
I though it was hilarious when it referred to itself as "visible".
She doesn't need "ou", she needs a psychiatrist.
Yes, I think this is messing up a lot of people - and a lot of young people. Emotionally and physically. And no one is telling them the truth about things. People still screwed up about homosexuality and androgyny and a frankly normal desire to not be part of hetero or conformist society. Still, in 2014. What they are telling people to do - have a sex change! And subscribe to some always-angry jargon filled ideology.
In Fundamentalist Iran, they won't tolerate homosexuality and androgyny either - and make gay people have sex changes. It's intolerant, and it not liberating, and it is ultraconformist. It is the opposite of liberation.
I AM gay, darling. I did not have to spend tens of thousands of dollars on surgery to become gay. I am being true to who and what I AM.
There is no such thing as a 'person born in the wrong body'. There is no Sasquatch, no Chupacabra, no Jersey Devil. It's superstitious nonsense. Worse...it's something that was created to convince young gays and lesbians to mutilate themselves in order to better conform to social notions of appropriate gender behavior and sexuality.
Go on YouTube and look up the transgenders. There's been this huge 'awakening' of transmen, who were once lesbian identified women. They define being a man as loving football, violent video games, and they wear prosthetic cocks to 'pass'. They openly talk about 'passing' as if it's not only optional, it's preferable. This ISN'T the same as my being gay. Not one bit. And I don't need to be told that I'm not a man because I don't like football...been there, done that. I do know that not liking football does not make me a woman.
It's horrifying to see these young gays and lesbians having themselves mutilated to become 'the gender they were meant to be'. And the 'sexuality they were meant to be' too, of course. Tens of thousands of dollars go into these surgeries, and they literally mutilate the genitals. Gays and lesbians are certainly familiar with a history that preferred us mutilated, physically or mentally.
I woke up one day and came out. No surgery required. What they're doing is more along the lines of a person of color bleaching their skin, but it's much worse.
[quote]It's superstitious nonsense. Worse...it's something that was created to convince young gays and lesbians to mutilate themselves in order to better conform to social notions of appropriate gender behavior and sexuality.
I tend to agree that deciding you're a woman in a man's body (or vice versa) because your mannerisms, tastes, interests, etc. are not conventionally masculine (feminine), is in many ways the ultimate in gender conformity. But what do you make of the rather large percentage of transmen who are gay men (Warren Beatty's kid is just one example) and transwomen who are lesbians? Obviously, they didn't decide to transition in order to avoid being gay or "conform to social notions of appropriate ... sexuality."
r145 - What a relief to know we can now benchmark everyone's life experiences against your life experiences.
Why bother having trained professionals studying this subject all of their professional lives. We have you with google and youtube.
You have such keen insights - you should have a TV show.
The loon wants a reality show for "consciousness raising." The country needs to "process" this national disgrace.
Totally agree, R145. Great post.
[quote]So what is the possessive for of ou?
I heart you, R145.
So if the goal is to pass, then it seems the goal of transgender people is to become (through surgery and chemicals) cisgender? Is this correct?
If you go through the trouble to get yourself to feel like you're in the 'right' body, doesn't that mean you're obliterating your transgender self in service to cisgender normativity?
It doesn't seem that well thought out to me.
'Ou' as in 'Or' in French?
Embrace the cock, ous.
I've known two transexuals who were friends. I'm not saying all were like this, but they were exhausting, extremely emotional, needy, irrational, temperamental whack jobs. They had intense anger issues with a persecution complex. They can literally suck the life out of you.
I know lots of people like that who are not transsexuals.
I missed the part where someone explained what "genderqueer" means how it applies to this frau.
Hasn't research determined that trans are more of a threat to good health than other fats?
How in the world is that being a "genderqueer"? She was born a female and she's presenting as a female. What am I not getting?
God, what a tedious bitch!
Genderqueers and transgenders need to be make their own groups and lobbies. There is no need to piggyback on the wins that the GAYS and LESBIANS have been working for tirelessly for nearly half a century. It's time we take out identity back from the "transgenders"
the gays and lesbians.
Drop the GQ.
I'm more offended that this sumbitch thinks 'preferring' incorrect capitalization means jack squat. Someone pays this hack to write?
r102 You actually support these fools being called "owl"?? fuck outta here!
As a professor at a liberal arts college, I have no problem when a student asks to be called by a specific set of pronouns--as long as they are consistent and actual words. But every so often I've had students like this special snowflake:
[quote]“You have to understand, this has nothing to do with your sexuality and everything to do with who you feel like inside,” Katy said, explaining that at the start of every LGBTQQA meeting, participants are first asked if they would like to share their P.G.P.’s. “Mine are ‘she,’ ‘her’ and ‘hers’ and sometimes ‘they,’ ‘them’ and ‘theirs.’ ”
[quote]P.G.P.’s can change as often as one likes. If the pronouns in the dictionary don’t suffice, there are numerous made-up ones now in use, including “ze,” “hir” and “hirs,” words that connote both genders because, as Katy explained, “Maybe one day you wake up and feel more like a boy.”
If the student feels that way, tough shit. I'll call the student "he/him" or "she/her" depending on the student's preference, but the student only gets to request a switch the pronouns once during the semester (more than that is too complicated when I have dozens of students each term), and I will not use made-up bullshit terms like "ou" or "ze."
Here's a smart piece from slate on the ridiculous insistence of S. E. Smith to be called "ou" whenever she is named in print. Here are the highlights:
[quote]Though it’s not an ideal solution, my suspicion is that PGPs work best among intimates, friends, and colleagues. When you try to export the model to larger social interactions or to print, the potential for misunderstanding and perceived (or real) stridency outweigh personal comforts—this is what happened with Smith anyway. In this case, mostly because life is short, my gut instinct would have been to ignore Nolan’s flawed—though certainly nonmalicious—assumption because, well, it’s a blog post. Moreover, most publications have house styles that do not admit bespoke pronouns for the simple reason that including them would be grammatically distracting and require a structurally awkward explanation. And though Smith got the “ous” in the end, the victory is pyrrhic: When the post made its way through my networks, the focus was all on Smith’s insistence on a difficult-to-pronounce pronoun rather than on ou’s thoughts about yoga.
[quote]I suppose Smith could blame that effect on a readership not enlightened enough to find PGPs unremarkable. [bold]But there is something self-defeating about expecting the world to essentially read and sign a disclaimer before engaging with you, especially when the situation is impersonal.[/bold] Well-meaning people accidentally disrespect one another all the time. Ideally, those unintended slights are gently corrected, and everyone moves on. And though the PGP model is meant to help that process along, it has the potential to transform into a more-progressive-than-thou whip—the crack of which helps no one’s cause.
[quote]In this case, mostly because life is short, my gut instinct would have been to ignore Nolan’s flawed—though certainly nonmalicious—assumption.
I read nonmalicious as normalicious and I thought someone had coined a new term, at once excruciating and oddly appealing, that fits right in with all of this other nonsense, as in, "Smith isn't odd at all. On the contrary, ou's normalicious!"