My policy with anyone having pronoun issues is to eschew pronouns entirely when speaking about them, a la Bob Dole.
"Chrys, would Chrys like another serving of pie? I'll send some home with Chrys if Chrys would like. I'll just wrap it up and leave it by Chrys' coat so Chrys won't forget it."
All wars are culture wars.
R1 is spot on-- EXHAUSTING! This is just the pomposity of thinking too much. Some people adjust and find their way and others truly believe the world owes them something. Like a lot of my fellow gay folk, I find people with gender issues have an strange mix of self-loathing and self-importance. Just don't get in my face cuz I wasn't aware of what set of rules you were living with today.
She should go by the pronoun eww.
I have no problem with someone picking the pronouns that best who they are, but you don't get to completely dismantle a language's grammatical system, and then play the martyr about it.
best fit who they are*
I blame tumblr
R6 is why we need a like button.
Ou? The French word for who?
[quote] Ou? The French word for who?
No, the French word for "or".
Or "where", if it is spelled "où".
Thanks, R15. I actually know what ou means but for some reason wrote down the wrong word. I'm ashamed of myself.
How transgressive and boring ou is.
This idea you can just make up your own pronouns out of thin air and demand other people call you by them is such bullshit.
I am such a special snowflake you have to use made-up pronouns to refer to me! Plus, you have to use lowercase letters to spell my name! I must be treated extra-specially by everyone because I am the center of the universe! It's all about MEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
Everyone realizes there is a very fine line between disdain for genderqueer people and disdain for gays and Lesbians?
If the net results of the recent US Supreme Court rulings and the end of DADT is a huge gay stampeded to embrace a heterocentric binary culture - well count me out.
Prince had a symbol for a name and some people want to go by ou. It takes all kinds. I have decided to jump on the bandwagon however my name is actually an action. If you wish to address me, you must do so by lightly sliding your tongue across my butthole. That is how I will now be addressed.
Gay and lesbian rights are an important issue for anyone who cares about fairness and basic human dignity, R20.
Genderqueer pomo nonsense is an important issue for queer theory students who aspire to tenure-track positions at shitty liberal arts colleges.
You GO ou!
Could someone explain exactly what genderqueer is? I read her explanation but it just sounded like a girl with some tomboy tendencies and a non-existent sex drive.
Further evidence that "gay" or "lesbian" or "gay and lesbian" is more than adequate -- and that those left out are best left out for reasons more numerous than the alphabet soup that in strings that begin with LGBTQIA and descend further into madness.
And prefer a lowercase name and "i" instead of "I"? Then fuck off, too, you insufferable ass.
Calling a genderqueer person "ou" can be really stigmatizing.
Just ask poor Glenn.
[quote]It's all about MEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!
lowercase, r19. lowercase!
R20 - Why?
It wasn't only 40 years ago that homosexuality stopped being considered a mental illness.
You're showing a tolerance and understanding of gays and Lesbians which you are not willing to extend to the genderqueer. With no explanation other than bigotry.
R28, R20 is extending more than mere tolerance to the genderqueer. Read his/her post again.
Disregard my post at R29. I should really use Troll-dar more often.
Recognitioun of langouage rape is nout the same as bigoutry, R28.
xoJane, when I say, "Listen, sister," it means I'm about to slap you for being a tiresome twit, not because I am commenting on your purported gender.
Don't you love preciosity?
Ou sounds like a raging count. ( or would ou prefer to be called "countess"?
[quote]Everyone realizes there is a very fine line between disdain for genderqueer people and disdain for gays and Lesbians?
I don't disdain people for *being* genderqueer/non-gender-conforming, but I'll admit to feeling disdain for genderqueer individuals who not only find their own gender identity so obsessively fascinating and important that they seem to spend 90% of their time exploring, defining, talking and writing about it, but also expect the whole rest of the world to give enough of a shit to get on board with made-up pronouns, etc.
If you're biologically male but identify as female—or vice versa—and wish to be addressed and referred to that way, using the pronouns that have sufficed since your native language was invented, great. Beyond that, I frankly doubt that there is a person alive who feels completely, 100% masculine or feminine every minute of every day, but is defining the exact nature of our gender identities really that fucking important or interesting that we need to make up labels for ourselves as though everyone's gender identity was its own special blend of artisanal coffee? Cannot you not just feel however you feel and present yourself however you please without requiring the world to validate your feelings and recognize your super-specialness with a silly-ass pronoun just for you?
And, yes, I feel the same disdain toward those gay people (and I know they exist because they pop up here on DL from time to time) who feel that their particular brand of homosexuality deserves its own special label--or, at least, does not fall under the label "gay"— because they are just too masculine/feminine/cool/whatever for the rest of the gay community.
[quote]Prince had a symbol for a name
Yes, and people understandably made fun it of it all the time.
I *heart* R35.
I heart r35 too.
[quote]It wasn't only 40 years ago that homosexuality stopped being considered a mental illness.
Narcissistic Personality Disorder however, is still on the books.
I voted r35 for W&W.
I volunteer with an organization that helps LGBTQIA youth that takes PGP seriously but it's always 'he/him' and 'she/her'.
If you refuse to refer to me as "ou," you are exactly the equivalent of those Wyoming men who beat Matthew Shepard to death! There is no difference!
I volunteered with GLAAD during the Brandon Teena/Teena Brandon murder. The linguistic gymnastics that they went through to use the "correct" pronoun made the whole story impossible to understand.
R42, not an exact equivalent. You are still talking.
R42 is a complete moron. Not only that, she/he is also extremely offensive, comparing him/herself not being referred to by the obscure word "ou" or not having his/her initials in lower case to being kicked to death. Disgusting.
All this fuss when English already has a gender-neutral pronoun "it" and a gender-neutral, possessive pronoun "its."
As in: "XoJane must not have gotten enough attention when it was a child."
It's pretty obvious that r42 was joking.
I think R42 is joking.
Just a hunch.
R45, I may be wrong, but I think R42 was being sarcastic.
r35 got it.
It's revolting to assume the whole world should change the way it speaks just for some fragile little flowers who obsesses over his gender. Get a hobby!
ou is oneness. ou is nature. ou is the past. ou is the future. ou is me. ou is she. ou is he. ou is we.
What kind of fucking magazine is that?
Engraged 24/7, like another group.
Genderqueers - are they sociopaths?
ou is a fucking idiot, R51.
sociopaths or "narcissistic personality disorder," R54
It did occur to me that r42 might have been sarcastic but so many people are sarcastic on DL and it still gets misconstrued so I decided not to think about it too much and just get angry.
R51 makes "ou" sound like a cheap perfume.
What is a "genderqueer"? Obviously not a homosexual. Is it a tranny? An effem-inate?
It is a person who rejects its own gayness. Or ou own gayness.
So a heterosexual then.
What does the IA stand for, R41?
I hate this crap/
[quote]What does the IA stand for, [R41]?
R59, a genderqueer is a feminine man or a masculine woman. When you peel back all the pomo posturing, that's basically all there is to the concept.
But such prosaic descriptions provide woefully insufficient validation of the genderqueer's uniqueness, hence the insistence that's one's moderate divergences from one's social gender role makes one not really a man or a woman at all, and is in fact so revolutionary as to require a restructuring of language as we know it.
Has someone covered the pronunciation of the neologism yet? Does it have the vowel sound of "you" or "south"?
One article I read when I first heard about genderqueer was about young genderqueer women voluntarily having their breasts surgically removed.
Don't forget to add TSFNP to the list !
Here in Canada it's n
what gay Indians want to be called this week.
Two-Spirited First Nation People
Seriously, wouldn't the "genderqueers," transsexuals and everything that comes after the "B" in "GlBTQIA" be happier and better off if they split off into their own group. I support their rights and everything, but they really have nothing to do with "gay rights."
I support equal rights for African-Americans, but you don't see anyone lumping them in with gay rights. A gay person can still be "gender normative" or whatever that word is. All I know is I'm attracted to men, not female acting males or females dressed like or turned into males.
It's time to split off and let us focus on gay rights and let them focus on their rights.
Whenever I browse books like gay anthologies, I check the bios.
More than one "____ ___ (name that is probably unpronouncable, and half made-up) is a genderqueer poet..."
.. I put the book down. Such "artists" always, ALWATS bleat on and on about being oppressed because the world doesn't like his/her/its pretentious nose ring persona.
It's true R65, or they're androgynous men or women.
I have met a lot of trans people R69 who agree with you who don't like being lumped in with gay men, bisexual men and women, and lesbians.
What about the pedohiles? Are they insisting on their own pronoun as well?
I mean beside "b0i" in their Grindr profiles .
R72 I thought a boi was a young adult (18-25) twink that's queenie/femme?
R73, So did I until I met the 6TH "b0i" in a row on grindr who was still partying from when Lindberg landed in Paris.
it's the gender identity disordered gays that ruin it for the majority of normal gays