Can someone please explain to me how someone can be a Republican and gay? Is money more important than your own equal rights? I want to understand. I've tried to understand. Are they perhaps racists?
The Coming Gay Republican Wave
As counterintuitive as it may sound, it seems safe to predict that this week's Supreme Court rulings that overturn key sections of the terribly misnamed Defense of Marriage Act and uphold marriage equality in California will result in more gay Americans deciding to vote Republican. No matter how controversial they appear in the short-term and no matter how many silly things my fellow Republicans say, there's little doubt that the decisions herald an unstoppable trend towards full legal equality for same-sex relationships. Once that's established, the fundamental reasons for gay Americans to vote as they do will vanish.
Of course, most conservatives are now on the wrong side of history when it comes to marriage equality. And, for this reason alone, large numbers of gay Americans (between 75 and 80 percent) are reliable Democratic voters. Although former Vice President Dick Cheney has supported marriage equality for longer than President Obama and Republican-appointed Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote a rather ringing defense of it, the four Justices most beloved to conservatives sadly sided against marriage. While overwhelming majorities of Democrats in Congress now support marriage equality, likewise, fewer than 10 Congressional Republicans have said they do in public.
But, as equal marriage becomes far more widespread and public opinion changes (80 percent of those under 30 support same-sex marriage now) the issue will diminish in significance. And once that happens, it'll be easy to predict that about half of gay Americans will vote for conservative candidates.
The logic is simple: many groups of people vote as they do because they see some intrinsic advantage to a certain set of government services, policies, and tax rates. Gay government workers, urban welfare recipients, abortion doctors, and employees of government-backed "green" energy companies probably ought to vote for Democrats. Likewise, gay small business owners, church-going Christians, two-income families with children, and farmers who rely on federal subsidies (yes, the GOP has its own client groups that want more from government) will generally find that the Republican Party does the best job speaking to them. Being gay probably doesn't make someone more (or less) likely to have any characteristics that identify with one party or another.
LIkewise, the type of family traditions that tend to result in political continuity for other groups -- Jewish Americans are overwhelmingly Democrats in large part because their parents were -- doesn't really exist for gay Americans. Since gay children overwhelmingly have straight parents, there's next-to-no no family tradition or history of being gay. While a distinct gay culture does exist, it's mostly a niche pursuit for single, affluent urbanites. Gay moms and dads who live in the suburbs probably don't frequent urban gay dance clubs any more than straight moms and dads in similar circumstances frequent straight ones.
And some broader factors will also tend to result in more gay people leaning left today will probably also diminish with time. Today, for example, gay people tend to cluster in big cities both because such cities are more tolerant and because, until rather recently, many gay people didn't see married suburban life as a viable option. Since Democrats' policies often tend to advantage cities, this gives at least some gay people reasons unrelated to sexual orientation to vote Democratic. But, as tolerance spreads in suburban and rural areas and more gay people settle down and to live suburban lifestyles, they'll also naturally favor policies that advantage suburbs.
A simple affirmation of that most conservative of all values -- marriage -- could immediately draw millions of gay Americans into the Republican camp. The GOP probably will leave these votes on the table for fear of alienating older voters. But, sooner than most people think, large numbers of gay Americans will be voting Republican.
I don't think large numbers of us will flip and vote GOP, gay women especially.
Wholesale blocks? Nope.
Enough for them to retake the WH? Very doubtful.
I agree, r2.
People waste way too much energy obsessing about gay Republicans.
It takes all kinds. We (gay people, that is) are everywhere, including in totally unexpected and even undesirable places.
It's certainly an odd path they've chosen, but imho our raging against them, drawing attention to them that way, is actually MORE empowering for them than just ignoring.
People are strange. That's all.
Some people simply get off on being contrary. There are hundreds of millions of people in our country.
Massive, nuclear-powered daddy issues. e.g.: "If I kick enough gay people in the teeth Daddy will love me because I'm not like those flaming queens who won't shut up."
racist and/or misogynists.
Personally, I don't think we should worry about gay republicans as much as we should worry about gay people who don't vote.
However, I do expect the gay republican numbers to increase tremendously once all of our gay civil rights issues are resolved.
If the Republicans left their gay hating, racism, anti environment, poor hating, anti women, pro corporate and theocratic values by the way side...I could be a Republican...
Money=rights. Hello. This is America.
Ken Mehlman. Nuff said.
r6 and r7 nailed it.
Have any of you actually had a conversation with a gay republican, or any republican, or is this just your assumptions based on rhetoric?
yes, r14. and what a stupid, possibly defensive, query.
Assume we have not, r14.
What should we know, assuming you have?
[R1] -- According to your logic, Blacks would have joined the Republican Party in the 1960s following the passage of sweeping Civil Rights legislation. It doesn't add up.
R14, with whom should one have a conversation? Ken Mehlman? A man who spent eight years right in the ear of the seat of power pro-actively pushing the anti-gay agenda of the Bush administration, then waited until Bush was out of power to officially come out?
Or how about the countless gay Republicans who actually had the audacity to shit on Obama -who is IN office- and attempt to give credit to CHENEY for some tepid support for gay marriage and again, ignoring that pesky "out of power" support and in power anti-gay agenda.
You will never be taken seriously, esp. when you try and convince people we're supposed to laud the likes of Cheney and Mehlman when the *current* president of the United States has actually done something for gays rather than attempt to amend the God damned constitution to make sure gays like you are never recognized as worthy.
How do you respond to the actual facts presented? I'll do it for you because we've grown accustomed to the reaction: Deflect, deflect, deflect.
Most grew up conservative and never evolved. Many are situationally closeted, lead highly compartmentalized lives and most operate under some form of cognitive dissonance. Self-loathing and a lack of awareness about it are common.
Definitely many are racists, xenophobes and misogynists. Many cherry-pick their gay causes, if any. They're pro-military and pro-family (in the trueist sense), so some are/were activists against DADT or for marriage equality. Most are indifferent to all gay rights, valuing lower taxes and no safety net for the poor over their own civil rights. They're largely silent, publicly, on ENDA, but privately I'd bet most oppose it, since it protects the economically disadvantaged, adds another government regulation for "job creators" and interferes with the free market. Never mind that somewhere, some faggot is getting fired for no other reason. They're better than that faggot and he probably deserved to get fired anyway. Realize that this attitude probably comes from someone who is closeted at work and has spent their entire lives consciously projecting a "straight-acting" persona. It's the same "I've got mine" mentality that is endemic to the Republucan Party. They're middle class and stupid enough to believe that currying favor with the rich by attacking the poor will benefit them someday.
They are callous, craven, unfathomably stupid opportunists who put their own (perceived) economic interests above everything else in the world.
VERY well said!
If I may, I'd like to take back my post and just be R19's toady.
Repubs won't be able to hold on to current members let alone add Gays.
[quote]Have any of you actually had a conversation with a gay republican, or any republican, or is this just your assumptions based on rhetoric?
R14, I've personally known several, but none very well, either co-workers, friends-of-friends or bar-hoppers in "the scene". They're typically very guarded and superficial people. I also find their politics repugnant, so forming a close relationship would be difficult even if I met one I had something in common with. But I have conversed at length with many and even discuss politics with a few; except for tepid and entirely selfish support for gay rights, they are identical to other republicans: hostile to the poor, indifferent to the middle class (which most belong to), deferential to wealth and power, jingoistically patriotic and at least 60 years out of date on race or women's issues.
One last observation: the ones I saw in social settings were heavy drinkers, to say the least.
I don't think spending your whole life obscuring your identity while chasing money and stomping on the less fortunate makes for a very happy life.
[quote]Repubs won't be able to hold on to current members let alone add Gays.
It's kind of hard to hold onto people when they're essentially circling the drain and the grim reaper is standing by.
OP, Gay Republicans are self-loathing morons with daddy issues. They desperately want their daddies, who are conservative and hate 'fags', to love them. So they vote Republican in order to say "See Daddy? I'm not like [italic]THEM[/italic]... LOVE ME!!"
It's really pathetic.
Either that or they're just selfish ignorant bigoted sociopaths.
It's sad to see white gay people who are racial bigots (I know a couple), and it's always that bigotry against blacks and minorities that drives their Republicanism.
In my view, there is little more pathetic than a Gay Republican.
It's not just gay republicans who are terrible people. It's ALL republicans. No empathy. No caring. Nothing but self-interest.
As long as we have people like R19 on our side, we're good.
[quote]According to your logic, Blacks would have joined the Republican Party in the 1960s following the passage of sweeping Civil Rights legislation. It doesn't add up.
Get your history straight. In the 60s the Democratic Party was a different party altogether. Blacks were more than likely republican in the 60s.
But anyway, it's totally different, especially for white gay men. Once the civil rights hang ups are fixed, we're white again and we get all of our white privilege back. And lets be real, many white gay men don't feel any kind of kinship with visible minorities.
Don't you love when the Republicans try and claim some moral high ground based on the history of black people when we all know exactly why people like Strom Thurmond switched to their party?
The ideology of a rightwinger has never changed - only what they were called did.
All of the gay Republicans I know come from families with high socio-economic status that have traditionally voted Republican. They wear their Republicanism as a badge of pride because they are elitist, even though most of their class would cheerfully send them to detention camps for the sin of admitting to having sexual congress with another man.
R14, Yes, I've had many conversations with gay white Repubs. I'm a straight female, and I remind them that their party is no longer moderate but is being pulled far to the right. They strongly identify with their wealthy bosses and business owners. They want to be included with the "party of the elite." Their fathers were more likely to have been lower-middle class and Democrat.
I can somewhat understand those who have their own small business, are anti-governmental regulations and are totally frustrated with the way the welfare system is run. Libertarians originally just wanted less government and far more freedom of choice in all areas of their life. Of course the Repubs are trying to appeal to Independents and Libertarians, and then going in the opposite direction as very controlling, social conservatives.
[quote]Is money more important than your own equal rights?
Most of them are sociopaths, OP.
R31, You're asking if once one has "made it," are they concerned with those "on the bottom?" For example, how many on DL are reading about those poor kids born into the Scieno cult who have had no education or real life choices? "Closer to home" on DL, look at the posters who make constant anti-Semitic and racist statements.
Money and status is a priority to many in America, and not just Repub gays and lesbians.
greedy bankers and lawyers.
[quote]They wear their Republicanism as a badge of pride because they are elitist,
I viewed the GOP that way prior to Dubya, but now I associate the party with uneducated trash.
R35, I agree that the Repubs have become even more trashy in their co-opting of the religious Right. Still there are many who see themselves as white collar successes, even if they're really not. Another reason why Chris Christie would never be a viable candidate. He can't "work an expensive suit."
I think a lot of you guys are liberal and aren't exactly thinking about this from a gay republican's point of view. It might a lot more complicated than daddy issues and elitism.
Anyway, money is the great equalizer. Case in point, Jay Z.
[quote]I think a lot of you guys are liberal and aren't exactly thinking about this from a gay republican's point of view. It might a lot more complicated than daddy issues and elitism.
It really isn't.
GOProud morons like to think so, but they're only deluding themselves.
[quote] It might a lot more complicated than daddy issues and elitism.
You left out 'racism', which I find to be THE driving factor.
R37, I think you knowingly chose to ignore that it has already been made crystal clear to you that we know it's beyond daddy issues and elitism. Case in point: R19.
But that would've required more than a simplistic response, eh?
Every gay republican I have ever met has been a racist.
Many of them are gun nuts too.
Politics makes strange bedfellows.
Mehlman said that gay men have spit on him when he's out in public since Bush left office. You wouldn't catch me spitting on him. I'd do my best to barf all over him.
Devil's Advocate here...I say this as a queer SF liberal too.
I believe that the GOP having SOME kind of gay presence among their ranks can be beneficial to our cause, and may have actually contributed to the downfall of DADT.
Think of it this way, when I came out to my family, I was the FIRST gay person any of these people had ever met. So, in many cases, this opened them up to the cause of gay rights as a human issue, rather than a politically religious or politically social issue.
I think the same can be true within the GOP ranks. If GOP politicians and their constituents have had contact with someone gay in their lives (and didn't have the benefit of a family member coming out, like Cheney did), it puts a face on the issue, and softens the rhetoric (for some).
Look, it takes all kinds, and I don't like seeing a lynch mob in any form. We gay people can be our own worst enemies, and some of us can be very eloquent in our bitchery (as this thread has shown), but I think the existence of some gay Republicans can only help us. Call me Pollyanna, or something even more clever or demeaning, if you wish, but that's my two cents.
[quote] And lets be real, many white gay men don't feel any kind of kinship with visible minorities.
Gay white men are *less* racist than white men in general. I'm so fucking fed up with the "gay white men are the worst bigots in the world" meme that some people keep promoting here.
R38 is right about delusion. I've talked to many gay Repubs over the years and even dated a few. Not one has been able to articulate why he is Republican. And as I got to know them, I found that they were self-loathing. Deep down they are ashamed of being gay, so they think, "I'm gay, but I'm not like this gay over here, or that gay over there." It becomes a faux elitism where they think they are somehow higher up in a pecking order that they created based on the view of that part of society that disapproves of gays. They are also usually religious. At least for the ones I've met, at one time or another they all said something like my sexuality is no one's business to justify the fact that they were closeted.
I'm not a Republican but I'm glad that there are gay people in that party fighting for equal rights.
And I'm kind of tired of this argument. If there are Catholic women, fighting for equal rights in their church, there can certainly be Republican gay people.
[quote] Deep down they are ashamed of being gay, so they think, "I'm gay, but I'm not like this gay over here, or that gay over there."
And you can apply this logic to every other Republican: "I'm on medicare/medicaid/welfare/govt assistance, but I'm not like that 'free loader' over there, or over there."
[quote]I think a lot of you guys are liberal and aren't exactly thinking about this from a gay republican's point of view.
You are correct, but its impossible to see things from a gay republican's point of view, because we posess qualities like empathy, intelligence and logic.
There are plenty of gay Pubbies, like Mehlman, who never let on that they are gay. They hide in the closet as if they're a gay Member of Congress.
[quote]I'm not a Republican but I'm glad that there are gay people in that party fighting for equal rights.
If only they were actually DOING that. They aren't really. They're more fighting to preserve their own rights (or more likely, profits... or white privilege).
And kudos to R19 for nailing it early on.
The problem is that the Republican Party is doubling down on the anti-gay hate. I can't see many more than the 20-25% of gay people who always vote Republican. That's not going to change much until the Republicans stop being a religious party.
[quote]I viewed the GOP that way prior to Dubya, but now I associate the party with uneducated trash.
They've lost some educated voters who might otherwise vote republican because they're presenting themselves as the hick party.
I know many gays who vote GOP and lie about it
"You are correct, but its impossible to see things from a gay republican's point of view, because we posess qualities like empathy, intelligence and logic."
LMAO!!!! yeah gays are so empathetic and so logical. Any Bug chasing parties this week? Gay men treat each other like shit!!!
R56 heard about bug chasing from a chain letter his mother sent around about 'perversion.'
Grease fires for the cunt.
Actually, r57, I heard it from DL first and then the advocate
And you then ran with it as if it's some sort of mainstream practice?
Back to iVillage you cunt.
Back to the HIV clinic you fag!! You call me a cunt, I call you a faggot!!!
wow, r60. time for an intervention.
[quote]I believe that the GOP having SOME kind of gay presence among their ranks can be beneficial to our cause, and may have actually contributed to the downfall of DADT.
According to the director of Log Cabin Republicans, their lawsuits against DADT were what "put [the repeal] on [President Obama's] desk."
So, as ever, anything that is wrong is because of the Democrats, anything that goes well is because of Republicans.
The Voice of the Night
Love both R19 AND R18.
Living in Orange County, CA, I've come into contact with many gay Republicans and Libertarians (they're just Republicans who smoke weed). All of those I've met are white men or women and the two common threads, aside from being gay and conservative, that unite them all are deep, abiding hatred of the poor and virulent, unabashed racism.
I try to limit my interactions with these people, but since the (out) gay community in OC is small, from time to time our paths cross. What always shocks me is how casual they are in expressing their racism. They just assume everyone shares their perspective, even me and I'm Mexican. I've learned not to argue with these assholes... you just can't. Whenever they start spewing their filth, that's my cue to leave. Fortunately, within the OC gay community, open minds and liberalism prevail, even if there is an unusually high rate of douchebaggery within our numbers.
Gay Republicans are such a tiny minority that they don't warrant so much interest.
The only way gays turn Republican is if Republicans turn progressive. It could happen: their vote totals are so low that a really determined national union could flip them within ten years, but by then we'd all have figured out what was going on.
My brother and his partner are Log Cabin Republicans. Deplorable, greedy, egomaniacal assholes...both of them. They're very secretive about money. Neither of them have a career that's very profitable so my guess is that they must've invested in the stock market at one point with moderate success.
I am now in a place where I will not be friends with or even opt to be around anyone who is Republican because they kinda make me wanna vomit.
gay republicans are honest people who admit they care about money and themselves unlike the demo gays who lie through their teeth and back stab while laughing at those gays who are the wrong economic class
Willfully ignorant embarrassments
R67 is really grasping at straws (that he's pulling out of his ass)
[quote]Gay Republicans are such a tiny minority that they don't warrant so much interest.
Reportedly 25% of gays voted for Bush in 2000 and 2004, and for McCain in 2008, and Romney in 2012.
A quarter of all gays isn't anything to sneeze at. It's a pretty shameful statistic that the percentage is anywhere north of 5%, IMHO.
An acquaintance is Cuban and GOP all the way. She is thrilled by the Republicans' bloodcurdling anti-Castro rhetoric.
Idiots, all of them.
And they are a small minority of US.
The responses on this post truly highlight how ignorant, ill informed, uneducated, and narrow minded most Democrats truly are.
R75 i think most people in the world fit this description
human nature is selfish.people who donate money do it out of guilt they have for being better off.
gays who vote demo think they are ''helping people'',when in reality the demos work for corps and big finance just like repubs
republican gays are just more honest.
and that gay equality shit is mostly nonsense-marriage won't prevent gays fired from jobs and facing homophobia in overt and covert forms,although i support it of course
that dadt repeal is just for industrial military complex to have more cannon fodder
gays need their own country/county/state if you want to have a good life without being upper middle class,thus in the real world money and class and job safety/opportunity is much more important than any corp representative in whitehouse saying ''i tolly ,like,LUV gays ,omg!''
it changes nothing.
Actually, R75, you're assuming that everyone who posted against the LCR is a Democrat which is ignorant.
Just because someone is anti-Republican doesn't mean they identify as a Democrat.
You are an idiot too, r76.
R76's post translates as "Everything is shit, so why bother?" with regards to gay rights.
He sat at the back at school thinking he was better than everybody else no doubt.
Gay Republicans have Mommy/Daddy issues.
And your post, R75, proves the widely-held belief that Republicans inhabit their very own "special" reality.
If you're gay and you're a Republican, you are absolutely, unquestionably a fucking moron. Just own it.
You girls leap to some really interesting conclusions from relatively benign statements.
R81, you have issues.
[quote]The responses on this post truly highlight how ignorant, ill informed, uneducated, and narrow minded most Democrats truly are.
You're projecting again.
This is a universal trait of Republicans and conservatives these days: Pathological Projection. They constantly and consistently accuse everyone else of things THEY are actually guilty of. Time and time again. It's almost hilarious how self-unaware these people are.
I'm friends with a gay republican. It's fascinating. He truly believes in small government principles. He calls himself an enlightened libertarian, which means, of course, that he "socially liberal, fiscally conservative". When I say that means shit because he votes right, thereby supporting politicians who are in fact the opposite of socially liberal, he just sort of shrugs and says it's not a perfect world. He'll never, ever vote Tea Party, fwiw. And he didn't vote for Mittens.
He's the nicest guy in the world, very smart, very educated. It's confounding.
It's a hold onto your money thing - gay or straight- isn't it?
[quote]The problem is that the Republican Party is doubling down on the anti-gay hate.
Not really. They are courting the gay vote now, haven't you been reading the news lately? Many are giving up the losing fight...
NYC since 70s, met many, many, many right wing Gays. Males.
Gay women, not here so much. In corp world and theatre, LOTS of gay male rightwingers. Thought it was the norm until lately.
Coupla Iron Lady women in corp world. One frightening bway director/dance rightie.
I have money, but I have a conscience, too, so I can't ever see myself voting Republican.
I think abortion is morally wrong, but I also think it's wrong to force a woman to have a child against her will. That's her decision and she's the one who has to live with it, not me.
Most people on unemployment and welfare right now aren't there because of choice or wanting a handout. They'd rather be working, but there are no jobs to be found yet for most of them. The "free market" theory is a bunch of bullshit and been proven wrong time and again. Republicans don't seem to grasp that if no one has jobs no one has the money to buy their products. If everyone is working and spending money, everyone makes more money. I don't see why that's such a difficult concept.
People in general are not inherently good and will not help out others out of the goodness of their hearts unless they are forced to through taxes. That's why our country went to shit with the Bush tax cuts. People just got greedy and stopped caring about the good of the country as a whole. We need a government to protect us from each other.
Democrats are not perfect and have their share of scandals of course like any politician, but even if gay marriage and discrimination were no longer an issue I would still vote for the long-term good of the nation rather than a short-term tax cut for the wealthy at the expense of the poor dying in the streets.
[quote]The responses on this post truly highlight how ignorant, ill informed, uneducated, and narrow minded most Democrats truly are.
And here, ladies, is the GOP debating tactic in one easy-to-remember phrase.
Although [bold]NO, YOUR STOOPID!![/bold] isn't a terribly strong defense, it offers a clear view into the childish, simplistic mindset of today's GOP.
R90 the gay republicans didn't start the name calling in this thread.
I'm a gay independent. I vote for candidates and not parties. It just so happens that a lot of policy thoughts line up with democrats these days. We all have to make choices as to what is important to us. Gay republicans have every right to make choices and vote in their best interests without being called on the carpet because their vote may be seen as antigay. And they should be able to do those things without being called names.
clear your cookies much?
[quote]Gay republicans have every right to make choices and vote in their best interests without being called on the carpet because their vote may be seen as antigay.
How about getting called on the carpet because their vote is stupid, then? Is that okay? Because Republican economic and foreign policies these days are, frankly, stupid.
[bold]Can someone please explain to me how someone can be a Republican and gay? Is money more important than your own equal rights? I want to understand. I've tried to understand. Are they perhaps racists?[/bold]
Republican-voting people who gay or lesbian or bisexual or transgendered are not interested in equal protection for themselves, and they are not interested in it for other people who make the entirety of the LGBT community in the United States as well as other countries.
Their motivation, though it is reasonable to be curious enough to want to try to understand, is not important.
Any attempt by this group to give an excuse -- like with money -- is just an effort to deflect from being criticized.
This is a small club which, to put it bluntly, does not care. And at that rate, it they are not worthy of being asked whether any of the questions by OP.
Republican-voting gay and lesbian and bisexual and transgendered people are to be dismissed.
[quote]Because Republican economic and foreign policies these days are, frankly, stupid.
Beyond stupid, they're PROVEN FAILURES. We tried them. The results were disastrous.
[quote]the gay republicans didn't start the name calling in this thread.
Which is somewhat unique since this is DL. Away from DL, the Pubbies are always first to start the name calling. They're still following the example set down in writing by Newt Gingrich.
[bold]I'm a gay independent. I vote for candidates and not parties. It just so happens that a lot of policy thoughts line up with democrats these days. We all have to make choices as to what is important to us. Gay republicans have every right to make choices and vote in their best interests without being called on the carpet because their vote may be seen as antigay. And they should be able to do those things without being called names. [/bold]
We can take it that you [italic]never[/italic] vote for any political candidates with a "R" or "D" after his/her name.
And "gay Republicans" are not to be immune from being "called on the carpet" for their continuing alliance with the one major, American political party which deliberately works against the LGBT community. No, there is no such privilege, let alone immunity, for [italic]that[/italic].
[italic]From the article:[/italic]
[bold]A simple affirmation of that most conservative of all values -- marriage -- could immediately draw millions of gay Americans into the Republican camp.[/bold]
Here's what the idiot of this article doesn't note:
1. LGBT people prefer liberal, not conservative, policies. They know they're at a better chance getting that not from Republicans but Democrats.
2. The changing demographics of the American electorate are moving away from the conservatism propped by the Republican party since at least the 1980s ... and they want better, more involved government action. You know -- the stuff the Republican pols claim are the problem with this country. (Even though they routinely seek office and, after getting elected, become a part of that large government problem.)
3. This current Republican party isn't actually conservative. It's backward, bombastic, and a bust.
Yeah -- that's some wave there! The LGBT community is just dying to get on board with Team Red.
Sadly, once the Republicans ditch the Evangelicals, I'll gladly vote Repiblican. Democrats are a mess.
OP here. My fiance is a self proclaimed log cabin republican. I come from a different background and I am very liberal on social and economic issues.
I want to thank everyone who has commented here for their input. I enjoy engaging with people who have a different point of view, I think it is healthy to debate issues.
I don't want to change my partner's views, all I wanted to do is understand them. The interesting thing is that his parents are Democrats. I am from another country, with a different background and I've always been liberal like my parents.
In any case, thank you for your insights, I think it is important to discuss these issues.
OP @ R100 writes,
[bold]I don't want to change my partner's views, all I wanted to do is understand them. The interesting thing is that his parents are Democrats. I am from another country, with a different background and I've always been liberal like my parents.[/bold]
In any country it is unlikely that two lovers with opposing political positions will have a lasting relationship. It's possible. But it's unlikely.
[bold]Sadly, once the Republicans ditch the Evangelicals, I'll gladly vote Repiblican. Democrats are a mess.[/bold]
We know you are already doing that, Freeper! The Evangelicals are not a factor with you.
I prefer the term "Quisling" myself. Says so much more about their peculiar psychological issues.
R101 I disagree. Ruth Ginsberg and Antonin Scalia share a passion for Opera. They sit on extreme ends of political viewpoints but they are able to agree on non-political views. Personally I think it is boring to be with a partner who agrees with you all the time, maybe I am alone, it just makes for a more interesting relationship when you can debate issues and and try to see things from a different viewpoint.
In my part of the world (Texas) it's cultural. I teach at Texas A&M, a very conservative university POLITICALLY, and I know dozens of gay, Republican Aggies. Their generation accepts sexuality as a matter of DNA, but they vote their pocketbooks and conservative outlook on the world. They are black, white, Hispanic, and Asian. While I realize this would shock East and West Coast gays, Texas is pretty conservative. Even Democrats here are generally more conservative (and gun loving) than the national ones. Most Texans are libertarian at heart, so they accept what others do as long as it doesn't hurt them. It's not a contradiction to be a Republican and gay here.
R105, I think we should distinguish between true Libertarians, and others. The former believe that what you do is your own business, as long as it doesn't hurt others. They see the need for police and fire services, but believe there's way too much government waste and inefficiency. Also that while a strong military is paramount, we don't always belong meddling in other countries.
Repub local and state elected officials skew Moderate to appeal to these Independent voters. Social Conservatives in the Repub party usually turn them off.
College Station is much more conservative than Dallas, Houston and Austin. While I am sure your observations about gay Republicans in CS are correct, it doesn't represent the entire state.
Sadly enough, my observation when it comes to gay conservatives is that it is usually race-based. Like Romney, they view blacks and Hispanics as living off their hard-earned tax dollars. Hence, their dislike of social programs.
[quote]I disagree. Ruth Ginsberg and Antonin Scalia share a passion for Opera. They sit on extreme ends of political viewpoints but they are able to agree on non-political views.
Seriously? A relationship is not a work-related friendship. That you would compare the two in this way shows you know very, very little about actual relationships. There are many people that I socialize with. Very few of them would I ever consider having a romantic/sexual relationship with.
I consider my liberal values to be intricately linked to my moral values. Helping those less fortunate, such as the poor, the disabled and the disadvantaged, is not some abstract political issue like a Clean Air Act or school vouchers; its just basic human decency. Believing that all people -- men and women, gay or straight, any race and every ethnicity, regardless of country of origin -- believing that all people are equal and deserve the same treatment and access to the same opportunities as everyone else is not up for debate, period. I couldn't be with someone who supported, even tacitly by remaining a loyal party operative without speaking out, an attack on women over birth control, or draconian immigration laws, or dismantling voting rights while intimidating minority voters. I could just not be with someone who could be so cold towards his fellow man by just turning a blind eye to these clearly conservative initiatives, let alone actually support them. It reveals something about their character.
OP, if you truly don't understand that the Republican Party is, at its roots, the party of wealthy white male hegemony, I don't know where to begin, you're either very naive or willfully ignorant. If you do know this but it doesn't bother you to date, sleep with and form a relationship with one of these cretins, then you're just as bad as him and you deserve each other. Just please stop claiming to be a liberal.
R109 You sound like a sanctimonious asshole and I would never want to " date, sleep with and form a relationship" with someone as perfect as you.
You talk about the dismantly of voting rights. Do you know that many of the liberal Supreme Court Justices voted in favour of that last week? Not everyone is 100% liberal or 100% conservative.
R111, I think I'd rather sound like a sanctimonious asshole than someone misinformed and ignorant.
The vote on the VRA split on ideological lines with the four liberal justices -- Ginsburg, Sotomayor, Breyer and Kagan -- all voting against it.
R109 doesn't claim to be perfect not does he come across as sanctimonious, OP. He's right.
I think r109 sounds like husband material.
I think any gay man that aligns with the Republicant's is a turd blossom.
Over 30% of gay people vote GOP
Untrue, R116. In the last election only 22% of those voters who identified as gay voted for Romney.
OP, are you Canadian or British?
your spelling would indicate yes.
[R45], that is a fuckin' lie and even you know this. Many gay white males from the US will use a derogatory term towards a non-white gay or bisexual in a heartbeat especially if their sexual advances are rejected. So you can have a seat on that bullshit because most of us non-white LGBTs that know this shit from personal experience...
Blatantly false, R116. The high water mark for gay GOP support was the awful Bush years, and barely hit 25%. You're either a liar or an idiot. Probably both.
The broad, brush stroke characterizations of Republicans on this thread are exactly what pisses you off if the tables are turned. If a republican stated as fact every homosexual was a promiscuous, AIDS infested, STD carrying mincing fairy you would be up in arms., demanding resignations, etc. yet it is perfectly fine for you to do the same thing.
The majority people on this thread, just like the religious right faction of the GOP thrive based on pushing stereotypes. I hope you remember your posts when the next mega church pastor blames a disaster on gays. That knife cuts both ways. For progressives that fancy themselves "enlightened" these posts have been revolting.
I am on several Republican boards as well and have never, ever, seen anything equal to this thread. The majority of moderate republicans don't have any prejudice against gays, although to see this thread you would picture them stuck in a room constantly obsessing about the gay agenda. It just doesn't happen outside of the far religious right faction (which every thinks is loony).
Hiss, freeper, shitstain, self-loath, whatever you want away.
R121, Republlicans do state as a "fact" that every homosexual is a promiscuous, AIDS infested, STD carrying mincing fairy, which you would know if you had ever been exposed to any of them. Furthermore, the reason they are losing the culture war is because it isn't true.
What we say about Republicans, on the other hand, is true. If you came to Datalounge in 1978 nobody would be calling them evil no good scum, and only a few would have been saying it in 1988.
Republicans have earned our dislike through decades of misbehavior where anybody on their side who did stand up for us was immediately rejected and tossed out. Indeed, the GOP Chairman in Illinois was forced to resign after he supported gay marriage. That's how Republicans are behaving even today!
R122. Had I been exposed to them? I am active local, state, and federal. I have been to conventions at each level. I am not the one lacking exposure, you are. You are perpetuating stereotypes and generalizations based on the most extreme version of the party.
r120, many gay GOPS are evasive about their political affiliation due to the mean judgmental asswipes like yourself
Once again we know you're lying because we've all been to their message boards. And I was raised by Republican politicians so I've seen their bigotry at all levels.
It's true that Republican VOTERS do not all believe in antigay hate. They also don't believe in World Domination and Government for the 1%.
But the people they vote for care about nothing else than World Domination and the 1%, and the antigay hate and racism are absolutely core beliefs of the activists who run all the conventions. So your characterization of this thread as taking the Extreme for the Totality is not accurate. The Extreme Fringe of the GOP are the so-called "moderates." And they have not made any visible progress toward changing their irrelevance.
R127. No, I am not lying. My experience does not match yours, but I am not lying. The moderates are not the fringe. The one thing I will promise you, and you cannot deny, I will be able to make more of a difference in the social issues forum within the party by participating and discussing, than you will by spewing venom n the sidelines with views shaped, not today, but by your childhood.
If r127 lives in the Northeast or some other place (very few), then that could be his experience. However, it does not describe the majority of the Republican party nationwide, which is predominantly Christian, white, bigoted and anti-gay.
Yes I do deny R128, because if that had happened, they wouldn't be the way they are today.
They need to be taken over from the outside, not reformed from the inside.
R128, if you're a moderate Republican, you are the fringe of the party now.
Do what you think is best, as I will.
Please note, I do not think you are, or call you an idiot or accuse you of lying.
[quote]I will be able to make more of a difference in the social issues forum within the party by participating and discussing
How's that working out for you?
The Voice of the Night
R133, Quite well actually. I believe I have been able to open quite a few minds.
I used to know a gay Republican, and R19 was pretty spot on. He would look down on me because of my drinking, but all along he was a crack-head...with the rotting teeth as proof. Not to mention he served time for falsifying perscription medication. The guy was a hot judgmental mess.
R135, Have we not seen quite a bit of judgment from the left on this thread, or is that OK when it agrees with you position?
I am politically active and I know several gay Republicans. While I as a Democrat may disagree with their stands on several issues, i respect them for remaining active in the political system.
I live in the Northeast and some of the gay Republicans I know are what used to be called Rockefeller Republicans. They are moderate to liberal on social issues, moderate to conservative on economic issues. One friend put it me like this "I believe in government, but smaller government. Excuse the double negative, but I don't believe in no government."
Some gay Republicans I know are libertarians, probably closer to true libertarianism than the Doctors (Ron and Rand) Paul. are
Other gay Republicans I know vote their economic interests. One man said he grew up in poor neighborhood, attended substandard schools but by working hard and by making up for his educational deficiencies managed to become successful and yes, very rich. He said that he worked hard for his money and why should he pay taxes for a welfare state that has failed. He said that many of the people he grew up with are druggies who have never worked for more than six weeks at a time. Why, he said, should he support them or their offspring. He has established a foundation that presents scholarships in his old community so that the recipients can further their educations,
One lesbian who is an heiress told me that her grandfather worked hard so his grandchildren wouldn't have to and that no one other than her family members was entitled to grandpa's money. She is not alone, I have met several trust fund heirs with that attitude.
Several gay Republicans I know have left the GOP and have registered as independent. They often vote for Democrats on the federal level, but admit that the reason that they did so was the fact that the Democratic candidates were usually closer to the center of the political spectrum that were the Republican candidates
As for Ken Mehlman ... I am a Catholic. When a Catholic goes to confession, he/she offers a prayer at the end called An Act of Contrition. In that prayer, the penitent acknowledges his/her sins, offers penance and promise to amend his/her life.
Mr. Mehlman has acknowledged his sin and promised to amend his ways. Using his influence among New York Republicans during the campaign for the marriage equality in the Empire State was a good start, but only a start. He is has much to make up for However, if he could persuade Republicans in Utah, Idaho, South Carolina, Mississippi and Alabama to support marriage equality, he might earn absolution
So sorry about any typos. I have had a lot day
A lot day?
a lot TO DRINK today?
My Dad and Brother are so-called Rockefeller Republicans. But in all honesty, except for the liberal wing, that's pretty much what the Democratic Party has become.
"i respect them for remaining active in the political system."
I used to have that attitude but it is a non-starter today. It's not that you disagree with them, it's that they have signed onto a criminal mafia, not a political party at all in any meaningful sense of the term.
And if they actually believed in smaller government, they would not be for Republicans who have vastly increased it, fighting wars all over the world, making the US a prison state, and increasing the bureaucracy much more than Democrats ever have.
Libertarians claim they don't vote Republican, so I'm not sure where you're getting this group, but they seem like big liars.
As for the "economic interest," it is not in the economic interest of the rich to bankrupt the country with military adventures and destroy the middle class, but that is what they are doing. What your friend complains about are "taxes" and "welfare" but not even one percent of the budget on any level of government goes for that. He may wish there to be no Medicare and Social Security, but these are not welfare for the poor and would not have been implemented if they were.
The lesbian heiress is just a sociopath. She's not "entitled" to that money either. Her grandfather would have disinherited her in a heartbeat if he had known she would lesbian.
You know some of the scum of the earth, I'll give you that.
R119, you're full of shit and ignorant. Gay white men are *more* likely to have a non-white partner than straight white men. Get your bigoted head out of your bigoted ass.
[quote] The majority of moderate republicans don't have any prejudice against gays, although to see this thread you would picture them stuck in a room constantly obsessing about the gay agenda.
Just because you believe in unicorns doesn't mean that they exist, cupcake.
I've seen what Republican state legislatures have been pushing over the past year - abortion, "personhood" bills, ultrasounds, stripping voting rights, union busting, illegal immigration.
If some faction of "moderate republicans" exists out there, they might want to fight the extremist agendas that are currently destroying the GOP, instead of wasting time getting butthurt over random namecalling on an internet discussion board.
Just a thought.
The Coming Gay Republican Wave aka. a tiny ripple that no one even notices.
As I'm sitting here in Ohio watching the GOP dominated legislature rape the middle class in their new state budget, so they can cut income tax on the wealthy, the idea of gays suddenly voting republican in some major way is just fucking hysterical. What an absolute joke.
This is what happened. Sane and moderate republicans courted the crazies through race baiting and gay baiting and abortion baiting and all kinds of baiting for their votes.
What has happened is all of those crazies have taken over and the sane ones have been pushed to the fringes.
So no matter how moderate of a republican you are, you are ineffective because the tea party shouts louder.
So all of those issues that moderate republicans don't give a shit about are passed over for the other stuff.
R142, I dunno about that -- I see an awful lot of white men with Asian women.
America, “straight allies” is an oxymoron. Were you never in high school gym class?
Do the words “dodge ball” mean anything to you, America?
America, don’t raise a faggot and expect him to vote Republican.
I love gay Republicans, their even tans, their lovely sweaters, their faces tight as Barry Manilow’s, their violated houseboys, their Paula Deen black-butlered-ante-bellum lawn parties, mute servants in and out through the back door, and I mean the pun.
America, I’d rather there were gay Republicans in the world because they’re proof at least that people are different from each other.
You don’t seem to know that, America.
READ THE REST AT:
[QUOTE] [R142], I dunno about that -- I see an awful lot of white men with Asian women.
That is pretty common, true, but the study (maybe it was a survey) I read showed that gay white men were more likely to have a non-white partner than straights.
I know there's plenty of bigotry to go around (from all sides), but I've seen the claim that gay white men are the *worst* bigots in the world posted here pretty often. It's just not true.
Apparently I've forgotten how to quote. R149.
I can deal with the Republicans better than the "there's no difference between the two parties" morons.
R45, I don't think your first sentence is accurate. And let's be honest, this site doesn't do much to disprove the "meme."
R120, I could have sworn that Obama only received 68% of the gay vote in 2008. He had to be the first sitting president in history to come out for gay marriage to get a slight bump in votes.
You're not being truthful, R121. Republican boards are horrible and incredibly offensive when it comes to gays.
Why are you so certain that it's not true, R149? You aren't exactly on the receiving end and again this site which is supposed to be about gay gossip and news, certainly makes it appear true. And the gay population is very racially segregated. San Francisco for white gays while Atlanta, DC is for black gays ( and Latinos). We have separate civil rights organizations, pride parades and everything else. So I'm just curious as to why you're so certain that it's not true?
R45 is clearly insane. How on Earth could you disagree with that statement? Even straight people believe that this assertion is true. I've actually seen links from DL on other forums, including Republican forums discussing this issue. And I'd say that the actual racism here is what promotes the meme, dear. You are correct, R152. Obama had to come out for gay marriage in order to get the same percentage of gay votes that Kerry received in 2004.
How could so many gay men blindly follow the progressive propaganda?
How could so many people blindly follow the conservative propaganda?