How many gays here in LTRs have absolutely NO desire to get married?
I am very, very happy for my friends who want to be married. Congratulations. This is the right thing.
But I do not want this for me. I have no desire to get married to my partner. Our lives are too damned complicated and there are too many issues. We've spoken about this when we first go together.
But lately, I feel the like pressure to OMG GET MARRIED has been amped up beyond belief. Now we're fighting over it. I think we're about to separate over the issue. Ironically marriage may be the issue that finally cuts the chord.
I'm a little bit angry that people assume that every gay wants this— just because it's available to some. Please don't go around asking all your partnered friends "When" they're getting married. Please don't lump us all together.
Are you that afraid of just telling people that you and your partner just don't want to get married?
You are allowed to make whatever decisions you want about your relationship.
Marriage benefits and privileges and rights were created to strengthen relationships, so you can see why it is natural for people to assume that is what someone in a relationship wants. If you don't, that's fine, but don't assume that people won't realize you don't need to strengthen the foundation of your relationship, which by the way seems to be crumbling.
Typical Mary. It's aaaallll about you, isn't it, precious?
My partner and I have been together for 16 years and we're not that interested in getting married. We're not opposed to it, but it just isn't important to us.
We're also Canadian, where it's been legal for ten years. Initially there was a flurry of couples getting married and the pressure was on for EVERY couple to get married. But our position was that it's rude to ask us and it's no one's business what we do.
[quote]Cuts the chord
Oh my ...
We have discussed this in length. We have been together 16 years, since we were both 24. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. We will not be getting married.
You are a Class A idiot, op.
R5. Fuck off unless you have something to add.
R5:[quote]Oh my ...
I'd be interested to hear from people who found that marriage changed the dynamic in negative ways. I found that to be the case with a civil union which we ultimately dissolved.
21 years together with no plans to get married. Of course we have wills and p-o-a where needed.
I'm happy for those who want to get married and are able to do so, but its not for me. I think marriage is one step closer to making us just like the hets. I don't want to be like them.
OP, stfu. Assuming you are adult, no no can force or "pressure" you to get married. Ugh. Stop trying to ruin this moment.
But what if someone asks if I'm getting married r7, what will I do then? Oh my, I get the vapors just thinking about it. Why can't I just stay in my comfy hothouse, were everyone has to walk on eggshells around me? Heavens!
I have absolutely no desire to . . . . .marry OP
None of the olds want to get married. That's fine - that's their right. We, however, do.
It's an issue in my relationship. I want to get married and my partner does not. I can live with that but it's disappointing. We've been together 18 years.
I'm doubting the authenticity of the OP. "...people assume that every gay wants this." "Every gay" ?? Fishy.
It's a freeper OP. They are pissed off and trolling.
To all those that say marriage is making you like the heterosexuals, well, heterosexuals cohabitate together, they spend time together and do things together, so if you do any of that, you are just like the heterosexuals!
Welcome to the world of Hets, OP. Our heterosexual friends and family have been subject to this pressure since forever. "why aren't you married yet" "Poor dear, can't find a man to marry him"; "If you really loved each other, you would make the commitment by getting married" etc, etc, etc.
You just have to stand up for your beliefs, just as you always have.
If I get married it'll merely be a legal formality. Weddings are for attention whores with low self esteem.
"If I get married it'll merely be a legal formality. Weddings are for attention whores with low self esteem."
I feel the same way. I have been with my partner for 4.5 years now. I don't want a big formalized wedding, but for legal reasons, I would do it. Maybe my partner and I will start discussing this in depth now.
married? try getting a date
Does OP have kids?
[bold]I have no desire to get married to my partner. Our lives are too damned complicated and there are too many issues. We've spoken about this when we first go together.[/bold]
Translation: You don't want to get married. Your lives -- and it should be just one life to being lived together -- is not complicated. Your first experiencing going out together was in the past.
]quote[But lately, I feel the like pressure to OMG GET MARRIED has been amped up beyond belief.[/bold]
That comes with an unwillingness to make a commitment.
[bold]Now we're fighting over it. I think we're about to separate over the issue.[/bold]
You two should part ways. Two people in a relationship who reach a point of wanting very different -- and important -- things are no longer compatible. That means, if you have respect yourself and your partner, the relationship will be brought to an end.
I can't wait for gay marriage to be legalized on a federal level so that I can STOP FUCKING HEARING ABOUT IT all of the time and it can stop monopolizing the national discourse on gay issues.
That's how I felt about DADT, it had no effect on my personally but it was so nice to cross it off the list and stop hearing about it.
Together 15 years. Overall, no burning desire for marriage...but, I think I would like having the protections that it would allow in terms of inheritance laws, medical rights, etc.
Not interested. Though, I'm very happy for those who are and support them entirely in fighting for their rights. Just not a personal priority for me AT ALL. Maybe someday, but highly doubtful.
[quote]That comes with an unwillingness to make a commitment.
R28 is a good example of the shame that gets heaped on those who don't want to marry.
Live and let live. Mind your own damn business.
Who gives a fuck whether you WANT to get married OP. The point is you should have the RIGHT to get married with benefits intact.
Speak English, R33.
r31 has it right. Partner and I have been together 22 years, and don't really care about marriage from the emotional or religious side. However, inheritance and being able to file joint tax returns are very compelling reasons. I'd also like to see if this means we get social secutiy benefits from one another, like striaght couples. It's a huge economic win for many same sex couples.
I started off with no interest in marriage (not opposed, it just seemed irrelevant) and a partner who rolled his eyes about bridezillas and weddings. Over time it became clear that he wanted to get married and wasn't going to be happy without it. So we did. No regrets about it.
Not every straight couple wants to get married either.
Many straight couples are continually pressured by friends, family and even acquaintances, sometimes even their children, not to mention fiscal policy, to get married.
Some straight couples break up over the issue of whether or not to get married.
Equal rights comes with it's price, OP. Sorry this is causing you strain, but hey, life isn't perfect.
My partner and I have been together for 10 years and don't have a strong interest in getting married. But the bottom line is that it should be our decision to get married or not; we should not be banned from the institution of marriage. This SCOTUS decision is a huge win for all gay people, even those who do not wish to be married.
I don't get why this is a pressure on your relationship. If someone asks when you're getting married, you just say you don't have any plans to. It's not a rude question and people generally mean well when they ask it. why bother taking offense at it?
My partner and I have been together for 25 years. I am a Federal employee so this is a big deal. We will be able to get her on my health insurance and ensure that she gets my pension should I bite the big one.
We are going to Washington to get married soon.
My partner and I have been together for 36 years ( I know what you're thinking!) and have lived in the UK and OZ. We discussed getting married in London when it first was possible, but decided against taking that step. I wish the best to all those who wish to/can get married, but we have never found it necessary. None of our friends have ever tried to convince us to change our minds.
Maybe some of you all in LTRs have no desire to get married because you didn't grow up with it as a possibility so it has no meaning to you. Now that the toothpaste is out of the tube, so to speak, up and coming gays will probably see it differently.
R44 has it right. The younger generations see it differently, and many younger gays actively want it.
Yes,OP. It sounds like you should break up, and it has nothing to do with marriage pressure.
I'm happy for everyone who wants to and can get married.
For me personally, I think the only reason to get married is to have kids or when your options dry up. There is a person who always posts in the New York Times wedding announcement threads, why are they never hot. That person is on to something.
That's funny OP, your partner said he would have no issues marrying me... Strange.
It's not that I nec. have no desire. It's that I didn't grow up imagining it as a possibility so it is difficult to process it as one.
The point is that I should have just as much right to marriage as anyone else. Just as some of my straight friends are couples who don't want to get married, for the same or at least similar reasons that many gay people don't want to get married, I should have that same option.
It's about equality, stupid.
My partner of 20 years and I have no plans to marry. We live separately (he in the city while I live 20 miles away in the burbs), share no financial assets, have wills/p-o-a in place and don't want kids. We're committed, monogamous and expect to be together forever but at this point see no compelling reason to marry.
Filing a joint tax return wouldn't result in any material savings and the Social Security Survivor benefits are of no concern.
Our individual wealth is drastically disparate, he rents and owns very little of consequence while I own a business and several properties. His credit is beyond awful due to $100k in defaulted student loans and co-mingling our individual balance sheets and credit histories has been a concern for both of us.
At this point, the only compelling reason for marriage would be for end-of-life matters such as the tax free transfer of property/wealth but I'm inclined to think that a properly constructed trust could do the job.
R49. I took my nephews to the park this week. Sally has it so should I was quote the theme.
[quote] Sally has it so should I was quote the theme.
Was quote the raven, nevermore!
I think it would be wonderful for everyone who wants to be married to be able to do so.
The thought of being married doesn't appeal to me, and I doubt it ever will.
I have always socialized with married couples, and so far I haven't seen a marriage that appeals to me.
I know, right R53? Seems they just get VICIOUS on each other after a few years. Talk behind each other's backs, etc. Verrrrry uncomfortable.
It's even worse for singles
Me and my bf have an open relationship. There are boundaries, though open nonetheless. We love each other and are emotionally connected, but require sex with others to totally fulfill our sexual needs.
We've discussed getting married, and have decided against it. We're a little afraid that a contract would open the door to redefinition of our openness as "cheating" along with the ensuing guilt and anger. And of course then comes divorces, division of property, alimony etc. No thanks! I don't begrudge anyone from getting married, but just not for us.
My partner and I have been together for 31 years. We live in WI, which does not allow gay marriage. We did have a civil union, which is far from the same. If and when things or sorted out (i.e., can we go to MN or Iowa, get married, return to WI and get federal benefits, despite living in WI?), we will probably get married. However, I'm not sure that doing so might not make our income tax situation worse, actually.
Or they're involved in an obvious power struggle, R54. Not fun to watch.
I don't often see married couples who genuinely like each other. I enjoy the few I know.
R50, if you're so successful, why are you so ignorant? It's sad that so many gays do not understand finance AT ALL! Do you not get that your partner will be taxed on everything you have (assuming you transfer it to him, which based on your post is doubtful)? Straight couples do not have this issue!! Plus, would you not want him to get your social security benefit if something happens to you, instead of just letting that die along with you? If you are more successful, your benefit will be higher. I am so confused none of you understand these basic concepts-- or just care about yourselves so much you don't care how it impacts your partners! MARY!
Hand-wringing Mary at R59, why should the poster be required to take on the responsibility for a partner who's made a mess of his finances? Let the partner clean up his own mess since he's the one who created it.
If they're married and living in a community property state, he can be held accountable for his partner's finances.
If his partner wants a bigger social security check, he needs to earn it himself. That's his problem, not the poster's.
Leaving property to his partner in trust seems the best solution. I wouldn't dream of comingling assets with someone who is that irresponsible. I made that mistake when I was younger and it took years to dig my way back out, while the person who created the debt skipped away and hid.
Age certainly makes a difference. I was in high school when same-sex marriage was legalized in Massachusetts, so it's always been an option to me. So, yes, I do plan on getting married when the time comes.
If you had read R50's post, R60, you could tell that he mentions a 20-year relationship. How on earth can you not tell, after 20 years, whether someone is goin to still fuck you over or not. Surely, if you were after someone's money, 20 years is not worth the investment.
"he rents and owns very little of consequence"
Ooh, isn't R50 just dreamy? Look at how much he respects his BF!
My bf and I are two big old whores. We like what we have. Why ruin/complicate it with marriage. Monogamy and marriage are totally man-made heteronormative concepts that we want no part of.
R50 proves that it doesn't take marriage or cohabitation to make a bad relationship. Well done!
Ay least it's an option now. Men being men I would imagine only about 30 percent will actually get married though.
Oh, for God's sake, OP, get a blog.
Who CARES if you don't want to get married. Nobody, that's who. If you want to forgo all the federal benefits that would be yours, fine. If you don't care that a hospital can deny you access to your partner when he/she is near death or even ill, fine. Do what you want, Mary.
"Responsibilities, as well as rights, enhance the dignity and integrity of the person."
-Justice Kennedy, Majority Opinion
I don't get the vitriol directed toward R50 because he doesn't want to take on his partner's financial mess.
As for keeping up, R62? At no point does R50 say his partner is trying to take advantage of him.
R69, dear, my post was directed at R60. He implied that marriage in the case of the poster at R50 would be a bad idea because of the partner's financial situation. As in, taking advantage (directly or indirectly) of R50's good financial standing.
Again, given what R50 says about his relationship, 20 years is a very long time for a gold-digger. Yes, keep right on up.
I think the vitriol actually comes from the disrespect R50 displays towards his BF, R69. You can just tell from his diction that R50 really thinks he's better than his partner.
I was addressing what OP wrote.
I'm not saying one size fits all.
OP has ... personal issues.
[quote]I think it would be wonderful for everyone who wants to be married to be able to do so.
This is all you really needed to say in this thread, R53. And R34. And R60. And ....
Sweetie pie at R70, I am R60 and I do not believe, nor did I imply, that R50's partner is trying to take advantage of him. I didn't get that impression from R50's post, so why would I make that assumption?
That's all on you. You conjured that out of thin air.
Do keep up, honey bun.
I'm beginning to think your defensiveness comes from wanting to find a rich husband who will make everything all better for you. You probably dream about getting a big social security check and inherit everything he owns.
Just bc doma is gone still does not mean marriage is legal everywhere. Not in my state. Not even domestic partnership. So i could care the fuck less about all this.
30 year relationship here. We've gradually done things along these lines, domestic partnership in the 1980s, civil union in another state a couple of years ago. I don't think it has mattered much, we did it for benefits (some health care insurance, etc.) Once DOMA gets sorted out, we could do the marriage thing if our civil union isn't just converted for us at some point. Not sure filing jointly with the IRS will be to our advantage, but inheritance issues certainly would be.
I think doing both the domestic partner thing and civil union thing settled me down somewhat, for a while at least!!!
I didn't until yesterday.
Now there are real financial benefits to marriage, and I expect I'll be marrying my bf of 19 years in the next few months, just us two, with a government clerk, or however it's done.
Our husband was suggesting we get married but he wants to make sure that we have more money than he has, so he can get at our money.
We said "No" to marriage.
I don't want to get married because I don't trust that any relationship will last and I don't want to risk having to pay out money for lawyers, alimony or whatever else. Probably no surprise that I can't even get a relationship lol.
However, I strongly think that gay people should have equal marriage and legal rights.
My tone wasn't defensive, R74. You're making huge leaps there. Read the last paragraph, particularly how you weave your own life's story in with that last sentence, in your post at R60.
[q]...comingling assets with someone who is that irresponsible. I made that mistake when I was younger and it took years to dig my way back out, while the person who created the debt skipped away and hid.
How does that not imply taking advantage? I did clarify in my response to R69 that there might not be an intention, your post does, however, suggest a marriage in R50's case would only be beneficial to the partner.
I don't NEED (capitalized for emphasis) a husband, rich or poor to do anything for me. Stop thinking, it's going to waste.
[quote]But lately, I feel the like pressure to OMG GET MARRIED has been amped up beyond belief.
What is this, Junior High? Who gives a fuck about "pressure"? Just tell people you're not getting married.
Thanks for the support R60 and R69. In no way am I concerned about getting "fucked over" by my partner. As a matter if fact, investment opportunities have come up for us over the years that my partner chose to pass on. I was game, he wasn't...no biggie. I recognized early on that we had very different goals and attitudes about money and that any wealth building would be accomplished individually.
We've done the SS benefit math and our payouts won't be different enough to get excited about.
As I said, minimizing estate and income taxes for end-of-life property transfers remains a concern but I intend to address it with an appropriate trust. We currently have wills in place that essentially leave each other everything and if I die first, without a trust, they'll be plenty left for him even with a big fat-ass tax bite.
Spare me, R50. I wasn't even talking to you or about you. And I certainly did not suggest your partner was trying to fuck you over. I replied to a poster about what that poster seemed to imply about marriage in cases where one partner is, at least financially, worse off than the other. I don't care about your relationship, I wasn't even thinking about it, but I am happy for you that it has lasted 20 years.
Keep your big, fat fuck.
Gay Marriage = Gay Divorce!!
R50 just really disrespects his partner. The way he talks about him? Dripping with disdain.
If I were his partner, it would sadden me to read what R50 wrote.
Sheesh- one good thing about growing older is you tend to stop caring what people think or think of you. And OP, most people give very very little thought to your impending marriage or not, very little.
For me, I have a partner and we are committed to each other. That is enough for us. But we appreciate that the marriage option is now out there. I would like to know how many of the legal same sex marriages out there end up with divorce? For me, that is the downside of this whole issue.
Ah yes, Divorce Court....the last stop on the trip to PoorVille frequently visited by that vast army of lost souls hell-bent to inflict the most senseless of injury on former loved-ones just because two little words were once innocently exchanged: "I Do"
Be careful what you wish for DL'ers as there's most certainly a lawyer that will make you BLEED for it.
R13, you can be married and STILL hit up the black party and seroconvert. OK?
I dont need someones social security, can buy my own house and cock is cock. Why be married to it. Lurves my space and independance.
You see what r90 just did. Pretty soon single men are going to be treated like 30 year old single women. Why aren't you married yet? What's wrong with you that you aren't with someone. Being gay means being special and unique, but also you get the ability to walk away free and clear for a newer model without consequence.
Being gay for me means independence and sexual/personal/financial freedom. I can't for the life of me imagine why ANYONE would want to get married and forfeit any of that. I couldn't imagine having to pledge monogamy to one guy, put up with someone's disgusting habits on a day to day basis, or place your hard-earned money in jeopardy in case of divorce. I essentially just want to fuck around and not have to worry about supporting someone during and possibly after the relationship. Being gay is like a get out of jail free card from a heteronormative lifestyle. Why would any sane individual want to turn in that card?
I am happy for everyone else, and I wish everyone well. Though I do suspect more than a few gay men will mimic straight women and marry "before it is too late", resulting in many a broken heart - and wallet.
You're not very imaginative, R93
R93 has a severe case of Peter Pan syndrome.
Love, r93. That's why.
To each his own R93 including those who want to marry (and have the right to do so and obtain the benefits from doing so- they are pretty hefty.)
I am sure R93, there are straight people out there who feel the same- wanna fuck with whom ever they want to fuck, wherever, whenever.
But others like commitment and should therefore have all the legal rights straight people do, it really is just that simple.
Put it another way- what if there was law that said if you are gay you cannot get a home loan, or a mortgage. Now you may respond that you never want to own a home- you want the freedom of no ownership to come as go as you please. That does not mean that therefore all gay people should be like you and not have that right (to obtain a mortgage). You may think that this is a pie in the sky analogy, but up until 1968 it was the case in most states in the US that people of color could not obtain home loans in their neighborhoods due to redlining by banks.
So it is not so far fetched.
This thread confirms what has been true for a long time: any relationship advice from DL is pretty useless even if you can get through the condescension and self-righteousness and judgement that permeates every relationship thread.
Long-term relationship here. We'll get married when our state gets marriage rights. No civil union stuff.
Love is fleeting, r97. I tried a relationship on a couple of occasions when I thought, hey maybe I could learn to love this guy, but I got bored very quickly. With the second guy, before we finally called it quits, I'd cheated on him numerous times and even gave him a (curable) STD. It wasn't a good fit to me. Voracious sexual appetite + low threshhold for boredom is not a good formula for a relationship. I'm much happier with a bunch of local and out of state FBs as well as what I'm still able to scrounge up on grindr/bars/gym for a guy of my advanced age of 43 :) I've got my twin dobermans to love, and who needs to come home to the sight of your bf trimming his pubes or something. No thanks!
I pity guys like r93. It's a good thing his kind will soon be a thing of the past.
That's right R101, set up a new class of gay men. Bully them into participating in the heterosexual ritual of conformity. Let's not be individuals.
I actually appreciate R93's honesty. He's not misleading those who do want to get married, and he's staying true to his nature. I want to get married, but I want to make sure that my partner does too - people like R93 cause less heartache in the long run, because they are upfront about their needs.
I didn't say r93 needs to be with anyone. I was merely answering his question. Like r103, I appreciate his honesty. It keeps him as far away from me as possible.
That's the irony: as marriage has become more and more commonplace, dating has disappeared.
Gay men want to stay 15 forever.
I think a lot of gay men have no idea what being married entails.
Did you see Frederik last night on Million Dollar Deals (or whatever it is called on Bravo)?
He and his boyfriend have been planning their wedding and have never had a discussion about finances! Idiotic!
Fredrick said he would like a pre-nuptial agreement before the wedding. His boyfriend was aghast and trying not to seem like a gold-digger, but pretty much said he wouldn't marry Fredrick if a pre-nup were required.
Fredrick has a ton of money as a real estate broker in NYC and he also owns a business in Europe. So, of course, he should protect his wealth with a pre-nup.
Those two need marriage like a hole in the head. Just live together - do not marry - or get a domestic partnership.
I wouldn't extrapolate the Swedish moron Fredrik's understanding of finance to a lot of gay couples. A lot of us gay men know what marriage means and entails.
Anyone in a LTR that doesn't want marriage must not have much money and must not share an owned home.
A lot of straight couples are pretty clueless about marriage as well. And they've had years of support for their relationships. Gay men and lesbians are no more or less clueless.
There is also that series on Bravo called "Newlyweds The First Year" or something like that. The gay couple there talked about finances like they had just met. How can they talk about getting married if they can't even have a civil discussion about money?
When we moved in together that was one of the first things we talked about.
Methinks #110 talked about that on the first date.
R107, Fredrick, the NYC real estate mogul, was just an example.
I have seen countless other examples of gay men who seem to not have an understanding of marriage nor its legal ramifications.
R110, the male gay couple on Newlyweds The First Year did not have the financial discussions until after they were legally married - not as they were approaching marriage.
They had not spelled out their expectations of each other financially before the legal wedding. Apparently it seems so as not to cause any disharmony before the marriage.
Many gay men seem to not spell out expectations before marriage.
"Many gay men seem to not spell out expectations before marriage."
Data, please. Such a sweeping, negative statement requires verification.
Most younger gay guys (at least that I know of), in LA, have no desire or inclination for marriage. Sure, they're publically rah-rah! for marriage equality, but on a personal level, they don't give a shit about getting married.
I'm happy for this victory for gay rights, but one of the perks of being a young gay man is that you DON'T have to worry about that marriage and children bullshit. WTF wants that? That sounds like the most awful, boring thing in the world, and no thank you, I have no desire to live like boring straight people.
And most young gay men, off to find their latest stud on apps, feel the same way.
Also, it is telling that gay men outnumber lesbians by at least 2:1, but most gay marriage license certificates are handed out to women couples.
It also appears that gay male low wage earners and/or the less accomplished are in too many cases trying to take financial advantage of the gay male higher wage earners and the more accomplished in terms of financial assets.
They are, R115? Well, I can't say that I'm surprised.
Is R101 serious? Do you actually believe R93's kind merits pity and "will soon be a thing of the past"
Have you ANY idea how many heterosexual marriages (and relationships) fall apart because the male partner cheated ? Do you think - no, do you really BELIEVE all gay men will become monogamous loving couples?
Are you very young or just very stupid?
"Most younger gay guys (at least that I know of)"
I do not know any gay men under 30 who aren't chomping at the bit to get married. The truth is there is probably a good mix of opinions across all age groups. I personally want to get married as soon as it is legalized in my state.
There are few statistics to support any of the sweeping generalizations, e.g. when "I don't know of any or of many" becomes "no one."
We do know though that when lesbian and gay divorces start coming, along with child custody battles, the lawyers will be making a lot of money. That's already happening.
R119/Twentysomething, just out of curiosity, are you a gay man or lesbian? And if you're a gay guy, what state are you from? It'd be interesting to note if there is a regional difference in opinion in regards to younger gay men wanting to marry vs. not.
I'm a gay man in Texas, R121.
One does not know if one really wants to marry or not until one has someone in their life who they have been with long enough and in the type of relationship which might render itself into marriage.
Hypothetically wanting or not wanting to ever marry does not work.
The decision only makes sense if has been lucky enough to meet and establish a relationship that might turn into marriage.
Without the relationship existing, saying you want or do not want marriage makes little sense.
Notice how several rich gay men like NPH and Ricky Martin have had the same partners for years, yet haven't gotten married yet? They both have homes in NY and could have married two years ago, yet they still keep putting it off. It makes me think they don't want to risk losing any money if a divorce happens.
r121, I'm not r119, but I would hazard a guess that (young) gays who live in less urban areas, and especially outside of NY or LA, would be more likely to want to get married.
For the record I'm a twentysomething currently living in Boston. I'm in a relationship of a few years that I want to eventually become a marriage, but it's not in the plan for the near future.
r123, why does saying you want or do not want marriage make no sense?
I have absolutely no desire to get married. I am, however, thrilled that the notion that friends who do want to get married have that option, especially my best friend who lives in CA.
I am self aware enough to know that marriage will not work for me. Meeting the "right" person isn't going to change that. Getting involved with somebody who end up thinking they can change my mind has never ended well.
What is R123 on about?
"One does not know if one really wants to marry or not until one has someone in their life who they have been with long enough and in the type of relationship which might render itself into marriage."
Duh. Is this supposed to be sage analysis?
I live in Houston, the fourth most populous city in the nation. I could definitely see regional differences in an interest in getting married, but NYC and LA are not unique in their urban nature. I doubt that living in those two specific cities makes you somehow very different than the people in Boston, Philadelphia, Austin, Miami, Chicago, et cetera.
"and especially outside of NY or LA"
Huh? Do NY and LA so radically change a person? Or do NY and LA attract specifically non-marrying types?
I think saying that you want to get married in the future when you've never had an enduring relationship is rather weird and that includes when hetero's say it too.
I guess wanting to get married sometime in the future even though you've never had an enduring relationship can be a wish or a hope - but one never knows what life holds and you may never meet anyone to marry.
"I guess wanting to get married sometime in the future even though you've never had an enduring relationship"
Who here said that they wanted to get married but didn't have an enduring relationship? I must have missed that post...
R131, R119 states that he does not know any gay men under age 30 who do not want to get married.
Maybe all of his friends are in relationships? It's kind of presumptuous to assume that they aren't just because they could be young.
It's obvious that gay marriage is long overdue, and since it's not allowed everywhere yet the US is certainly late to the party.
It would seem obvious that there is some pressure (light or heavy) put on gay people now that many can, just like the pressure straight people have to settle down. I'm in a long term relationship and while I don't feel pressured, I frequently get asked if I intend to marry.
I do find many of the responses pretty harsh (if the OP's scenario is real); it seems possible that the debate could cause problems in their relationship.
But to suggest the OP is an idiot because he doesn't want to get married is a bit much, even for datalounge.
I told the old ball and chain he better shit or get off the pot. He's not getting any younger!
R56, all that reasoning is just because your are both whores. And whores dont look good in white.
R59 + 1, nailed it.
R60 you are a selfish prick mommy dearest class. You would not want to be responsible for someone else and their credit score but you will suck his dick? That also makes you trash.
Selfish and Trash, congratulations.
I have already stated my boundaries and told you then so I don't have to marry you now.
[quote]I'm happy for this victory for gay rights, but one of the perks of being a young gay man is that you DON'T have to worry about that marriage and children bullshit. WTF wants that? That sounds like the most awful, boring thing in the world, and no thank you, I have no desire to live like boring straight people.
Actually, that's one of the perks of being a middle-aged gay man, too.
I'm happy for the victory and the fact people will have choice, but my choice remains no marriage, and keep those goddam kids away from me.
Some of you guys are all missing a big point, marriage is not a business deal. All the shallow justifications about how my partner makes less money then I do, or has bad credit or dose not own multiple properties show you are not ready for marriage even if you wanted to.
Love is based on emotional and irrational but tying to separate out the issues the say way you would look at a business decision is not only the wrong approach, it will lead to failure.
This is something straight people have been doing for years too. Gays did not invent the Pre-nup straight people did. And for the most part, hardly anyone uses it because it says I really dont think this relationship is going to work out at some point and I want to keep all the money. I don't trust you.
Anyone gay or straight who evaluates their marriage situation like a business transaction has never truly been in love.
You are the marriage of convents people. Someone to go to dinner with, or sex or companion, travel buddy, but you are not in love.
It's for better AND worse, not better or I keep my stuff as only my stuff.
For those of you that said you don't want to be like heteros because you want to play around, nothing is stopping you.
Strait people do this all the time they call in swinging. In fact where I live, Orange County CA it has the highest concentration of swingers in the US. All straight of course.
So being married has nothing to do with being forced into monogamy. Open relationships are common.
Your argument against getting married at least for that part is not genuine.
OP, has anyone actually asked you to marry them? THAT is the question.
R100, if you ever had a real boyfriend you would know the sight of him trimming his pubes is not unpleasant.
Because FUCK all this heteronormative fucking bullshit.
Let THEM have their shitty surburban lives with their shitty suburban tradtional marriages and their shitty children in their shitty McMansions...THEY are not US. WE are better than that.
I don't know what the fuck you simpering cunts are squealing for...do you seriously fucking WANT a 6,000 sq. ft. mega McMansion in the middle of some shitty Long Island development?? Ugh.
What the fuck HAPPENED to queers?! All of a sudden, we all want to be Just Like Them. Well FUCK THAT, we are NOT just like those boring piece of shit breeding wastecans. We can do BETTER.
R141, I strongly disagree with everything you said.
I think you are completely wrong.
R145, very well stated! I strongly agree with your point of view and I am hetero.
YOU are not ME.
R145 is definitely on the right track and wise.
Then YOU are a boring piece of shit cuntball, R148, and you deserve all the chenille that life sends your way.
Enjoy your fucking muffins, Mrs. Housecunt.
R145 must be one of those geezers who grew up thinking he was a sick freak for liking guys, and eventually came to embrace that identity because it was that or off himself.
Guess what, gramps, we're not some breed apart from breeders. At least not more than any other subcategory of human beings. That's the whole point of the equality argument.
I think someone needs a refreshing and delicious cup of Sanka decaffeinated coffee before he remembers the sawed-off shotgun in his closet and goes postal!
Come with me, friend! I have some Sanka and some delicious Drake coffee cake to share with you...let's sit down now and enjoy life together!
For me it's practical. I have a pension that, my bf could inherit but not unless he is my surviving spouse. Likewise, social security is the same way.
I have good steady job, my partner works out of house but has no insurance. He could get it for about $500 a month but if we were married, my company would cover him for only $100 and its awesome coverage. The catch is, they will not do it unless I produce a marriage certificate.
That is real world for you folks. In one year he would be paying 4,800 extra on health insurance just because we are not married.
THAT is one of many things you CANNOT do with a lawyer or financial creativity.
If I stay at that job for 10 years, that would be a 48,000 dollar chunk of change we could have used for something else.
R151 is correct about R145.
The older generation had to make peace with the world when they were young, but now that it has changed, they don't know how to cope with their decisions.
They rationalized their free love, back room sex pre-AIDS bath house days as who they were, instead of what they did.
Now that those things are out of style (for decades), they don't know what to do since they see that as their identity.
Who says you have to move to the suburbs to get married, last time I checked the cities were full of fun, creative, divers people many of which were married. Its total projection on their part, not reality.
I don't know what the fuck you simpering cunts are squealing for...do you seriously fucking WANT a 6,000 sq. ft. mega McMansion in the middle of some shitty Long Island development?? Ugh.
I want the man who's been by my side for 17 years to get his green card so he can go home and see his family again, you retarded, histrionic, mouthbreathing cunt.
Let's try that again, because I screwed up the formatting and I want to be perfectly clear here:
[quote]I don't know what the fuck you simpering cunts are squealing for...do you seriously fucking WANT a 6,000 sq. ft. mega McMansion in the middle of some shitty Long Island development?? Ugh.
I want the man who's been by my side for 17 years to get his green card so he can go home and see his family again, you retarded, histrionic, mouthbreathing cunt.
I think there's a lot of projecting going on here. Not every lesbian or gay man who gets married is a rich, white, closet conservative desperate to cash in on heteronormative privilege and move to the suburbs. R158 is a case in point.
On the other hand, I agree we need to support and celebrate other forms of intimacy other than the het model. I can see both sides but, what annoys me, is that the onus for challenging heteronormative privilege and the brunt of inequality has again fallen solely on the shoulders of the LGBT community. So we're supposed to bypass those economic benefits because marriage is a conservative institution? I'll take the money thanks and continue to do my relationships my way.
Dear OP, You are a shit-stirring troll.
And it's fairly boring shit at that, especially by page 9. Unfavoriting.
R141 is a completely clueless basement dweller who has never been in a long term relationship, much less lived with anyone. Money issues are one of the biggest causes of divorce, followed by a remodel.
R138, you could not be more wrong in expecting people to take on the credit mess of another person and to take on the debt and financial mistakes of another person.
You are ignorant beyond belief about life in general, life in particular, and finances.
Everyone I have been talking to and on this thread has only been talking about the financial aspects of this. What about love? Silly concept I know, but are you only getting married so you can collect benefits if you spouse dies?
r165, the love is a given. That's the foundation. I think posters were just discussing the financial benefits.
R165, I was with my husband for almost 20 years before it became legal for us to get married (which we promptly did). I think a lot of us gays learned to live in relationships with love, regardless of marriage, because marriage wasn't an option. We realized we needed protections that other couples get, so when we got married, it mostly was (but not entirely) about the benefits. The love was already there and most gay people go through loving relationships without marriage, so I guess we've learned a distinction. It really is about the benefits, but that's not to say we don't love each other, of course we do and would die for each other.
My best gay friend is like this. He's been with his partner for years, but has loudly proclaimed several times that they "don't need" marriage, whatever that means. They are wealthy so maybe he's convinced himself they're somehow protected. He seems pretty much against it to me, but is coy about why. He's a child of divorce and that experience was a defining one in his childhood, so I think that has something to do with it. He has no faith in the institution so he thinks its dumb that gay people want it. I guess.
After DOMA fell my partner and I announced our engagement on Facebook. That was a week ago and he still hasn't mentioned any of it: DOMA, our engagement or our impending wedding. We had third cousins and grade school chums and the like -- overwhelmingly hetero in number -- that we haven't seen in decades, congratulating us online, but our closest gay friend in the city where we live, who we've both texted, emailed and talked to face-to-face since this, has ignored the fact that we're now engaged and getting legally married. Weird. I don't expect a huge congratulations but an acknowledgment at least? No "When's the wedding?" or anything. Like it never happened. And yes, he knows, because his better-mannered partner did congratulate my partner when they socialized together without my friend and I. My partner said that his partner said "we're so excited for you!" but I'm dubious.
What's weird is, I've been to two hetero weddings that he was also at where he fell all over himself congratulating the bride and groom. In each instance he was close friends with the bride. It's almost like he thinks weddings or marriage are for girls. I can't believe that it's as simple as he opposes marriage for gay people, period. He's not a self-loathing type and, although much further right and more conservative in demeanor than me, he's a political moderate and a social liberal who overwhelmingly votes Democrat.
Yes, I'm hurt.
I think it is smart NOT to get married in many cases.
Especially if you have a lot to lose.
[quote]Everyone I have been talking to and on this thread has only been talking about the financial aspects of this. What about love? Silly concept I know, but are you only getting married so you can collect benefits if you spouse dies?
Seriously? You conflate love and marriage? They're two different things. Don't get me wrong, they belong, and are best, together. But your observation makes no sense in the context of the topic: legal, civil marriage. My partner and I didn't march and protest and write letters to politicians because we needed a slip of paper to prove our love to anyone. We did it because our civil rights were being denied. Millions of homosexual unions existed long before gay marriage was ever "a thing", and many of them involved enormous love, passion and devotion. No one needs marriage to be loved, but plenty of people who love each other desperately need marriage. In a discussion on civil marriage and the rights that come with it, love is really irrelevant.
Love and marriage belong together, but they are separate things. Many people love without getting married, and many people marry for reasons other than love. And we all know that many, many miserable people are married long after their love dies. I could tell you all about my love for my partner, but that would be a different thread (and a dumb one at that).
I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but if you married a military man in the states that allow gay marriage, would you get military benefits?
I can't even get to a 2nd date...marriage is so far off my radar it's laughable to even ponder it.
I cannot even get a first date - I have no way of meeting new people who are date available.
R171 -- basically, yes
Great! Thanks, R175.
r168 Well weddings are something that women care about more. Very few men think and plan out their marriage when they were little boys-- straight or gay.
Uh oh. Now those of us in the military will have to be on the lookout for welfare queens like R171, LMAO.
R177, it is a fallacy that 'most women' plan out their wedding as a little girl.
That is just a stupid myth.
There are millions upon millions of women who never even give their wedding a 2nd thought and do not ever contemplate the details and certainly not when they are little girls or teens.
R178, if you're in the military, I wouldn't talk about welfare/food stamp queens since your pay isn't anything to brag about. I mean most of you qualify for food stamps because of your low pay grade. I asked the question because I wanted to know if military benefits extended to same-gender partners. I have no interest in getting married.
I'm an officer. I make six figures.
We have been together for 25 years, half of my life and are already married. We will make it legal for federal benefits, but do not want a wedding.
Same here. No need for a big to-do. Just want the federal benefits my straight friends have.
[quote]We have been together for 25 years, half of my life and are already married. We will make it legal for federal benefits, but do not want a wedding.
I think this was my post from back in July. We are going to make an appointment in Washington (the state) to get married on Friday.
Good for you!
We're planning a small (under 100, probably 80 or 70 after RSVPs) wedding next summer. Extended family, local friends and work colleagues we really like. I feel no guilt or shame nor do I feel entitlement. But this is a right and a rite in our society and I want to throw a damn party. I've been out for 20+ years and with my partner for almost 15 and we both fought for this right, so we're celebrating.
My partner and I(together almost 39years) are going for our marriage license today. We've discussed this, naturally, as many couples have, whether they ultimately decide to marry or not.The few friends we've told about our plans are delighted for us, but none of them ever mentioned or asked if we had been planning to do so. Once we tie the knot, next Tuesday probably, we'll host a small dinner for about a dozen people. We get together frequently anyway to celebrate various occasions, so this is not much different. I never thought I'd be getting married, but now it just seems the right thing to do. Nothing will change much. Our lawyer and accountant might have a little extra work next year I suppose? I don't feel we're "going het." I DO wonder though how many of the naysayers might one day change their minds, and what excuses they'll give for their about-face?
I have absolutely no desire to get married, however, the marriage issue is one of high importance to me nonetheless.
Thank you, r183. We bought wedding bands 2 months ago. I just realized yesterday that I lost mine...
I have a loaner from the jewelry store. We are getting married tomorrow!!!
Congratulations, r186. Please give your wife/husband a big hug for me.
To [R-28]: Thank you, Sister Immaculata for your holier than thou statements. I realize that all cannot aspire to your wisdom and purity. You must have been locked up in a convent for the last 16 years and haven't a dick up your ass in twice as long. OP seems to working on his relationship and I give him credit for it. This means he cares and is honest enough to point out that all is not perfect in coupledom. You're lofty solution is to just break it off and part ways. Why? It's because you want him as miserable and lonely as you are.
Thank you r182/r188 for your good wishes. My soon-to-be husband and I are getting married tomorrow morning, we pick up our rings and the license today. A celebratory dinner with some friends Thursday evening, then back to the usual stuff on Friday. I wish you and your spouse all the best. I hope you found your ring?
Sweet, R191! Congrats!! :)
I'm now in my second LTR, and while I sometimes think about it, neither boyfriend was/is into it. First BF had been married (albeit not "legally) to a guy and current BF was married to a woman. While I'm all for gay marriage, I'm not personally craving it enough to pressure anyone.