She either took too many pills and died, or someone killed her. Take your pick. She did not commit suicide.
She was junkie, she was strung out on pills and took more than she should have. This stuff happens all the time.
I doubt it was a suicide. I wonder if Eunice was responsible? Marilyn pretty much fired her.
I think it was an accident...something like Michael Jackson.
I think Anna Nicole Smith was more like murder, no one protecting her.
It probably was an accident or murder but she did seem pretty strung out with issues and probably needed to take drugs for that.
Someone did some research a few years ago, and found that some of the medications she was taking can be fatal if taken together, which was not known in the 1960s. There was no suicide or murder, just another night of pill-popping.
But of course, people would rather believe elaborate conspiracy theories than read up on pharmacology.
She was killed after the Kennedys gangbanged her.
I heard her doctor had ordered a barbiturate enema for her and it was too much.
Because the thought of hurting JFK and RFK's political careers was so painful to her, she shoved a lethal dose of barbituates up her own rectum. Honestly.
R6 There is no question in my mind Anna Nichole and her son were murdered.
I think Howard K. Stern accidentally killed Anna Nicole's son Daniel by slipping drugs into his drink. Then he pumped Anna full of even more drugs to help her cope with the pain of losing her son. That ended up killing her.
Stern is a foul piece of work who ought to have been tried for manslaughter in both deaths.
She lived her life like a candle in the wind.
I dont know if it was that much of an accident R13. IIRC, he seemed to think he was the father of her daughter, or at least he tried to get people to think that. So, he is going to have a child with an insanely wealthy woman. First, get the other kid out of the picture so any inheritance would go to him via the newborn once mom kicks it. Then make sure Mom kicks it.
I dont go in for conspiracy theories, but there is just too much that doesnt smell right with that.
[quote]he seemed to think he was the father of her daughter, or at least he tried to get people to think that
I suspect he knew damned well he was not the father of that child.
R16 I suspect so too. I think he was counting on the real dad to never show up. I just read a little more and yes, he was claiming to be the father, was listed as the father on the birth certificate. Plus many of the drugs she took were prescribed to him.
She knew too much.
She got offed by Bobby Kennedy and Peter Lawford. She was probably pregnant and getting ready to reveal all. Unlike the Kennedys' other bimbos, Marilyn could capture headlines and the press couldn't ignore her no matter how enamored they were of JFK.
They killed her and stole her diary.
She was addicted to dope at a time when people didn't know the dangers. She also liked the booze. Yeah, maybe she was a little blue that day. But she had quite a few plans laid out for her life.
Just a tragic accident.
R21, are you a Kennedy by any chance?
R22 Yes, everyone who doesn't believe everything is a conspiracy is a Kennedy, CIA shill, Illuminati or reptilian shape shifters. Or part of the big Zionist conspiracy.
Dope addicted drunks with a history of mental illness never, ever kill themselves.
R23, are you implying that powerful people who represent powerful entities never conspire to deceive the general public?
I thought the Kennedy's had her whacked.
R25 No, I'm not implying that. But they are also not responsible for every single negative, sad, traumatizing event on the planet and there is no evidence for Marilyn having been murdered. She was a mental wrack, drank and took all kinds of drugs.
But there is evidence that she fucked around with both JFK and RFK and that her instability made her a threat to their careers which provides the theory with its motive.
The Kennedys took all kinds of drugs too. Max Jacobson aka "Dr. Feelgood, A pusher of amphetamine shots, was a regular visitor to the Kennedy White House.
Just assumptions and speculation, no evidence whatsoever.
She was a fucking mess. She drove people crazy of the set of The Misfits.
Lots of people died from the 1930s through the early 1970s taking combos of drugs and alcohol. It still happens today, but in nowhere near the numbers of the past. Benzodiazepines are safer than the older sedatives, which oeople used to take to sleep after taking amphetamines and cocaine to stay alert/slim.
Female movie stars took pills. Male movie stars drank. Female stars may have had some alcohol but they knew if they became hard drinkers it would pile on the pounds. Hence, pills.
She was insane. Read this relatively benign account t of her behavior on the set of SomeLike it Hot
She was the Lindsay Lohan of her time.
She never fucked Bobby. He wasn't her type- too small 'n geeky. But she met the Pres through him, and they did screw at least once. It was no big deal for MM, as he was in such pain from his various body ailments he just got on and off.
Even if she was wanted to blab about her affair with JFK, no one would print it. The press was different then, they knew full well what was going on, but they would never breath a word of it unless it was veiled (see Art Buchwald's "Let's Be Firm on Monroe Doctrine"). The idea that she was killed to keep her quite seems unlikely. The most reasonable explanation is she ODed. Just like Garland and Elvis, and Michael Jackson and Bobby Driscoll and Pier Angeli and Sid Vicious and countless other people.
Her internist and her psychiatrist weren't on the same page. She was so resistent to the pills by this stage that sleep was nearly impossible. She was set to return to work on Something's Got To Give and like she all through her career, was desperate for sleep. She took a fuck load of pills that didn't work, then called her psychiatrist, who had her administered a drug laced enema that reacted badly with all the other pills. He and the nurse freaked out and tried to make it look more accidental versus negligent.
That or, her psychiatrist who had tried to influence every facet of her life, who was probably suffering from reverse-transference and agitated by her efforts to resettle with Joe DiMaggio and fire him, killed her to make it look like an overdose.
Or Sinatra's mob friends whacked her after whatever went on at Cal Neva.
Or the Kennedy's.
Or, after years of battling with borderline personality disorder in an era when it was even less understood than it was today; after years of self-medicating her loneliness and anxiety with buckets of pills and alcohol; after years of being passed around at Hollywood parties, then by Sinatra, Kennedy and who knows who else; after the painful, slow-moving train wreck that was the Miller marriage; after years of undergoing painful therapy to revisit the childhood she was probably better off forgetting in the aim of becoming a great method actress, only to be - after seven years of independence from the studios - still trapped in fluff films and given limited acting recognition; and surrounded by toxic influences in the Kennedys, Sinatra, Greenson - and to a lesser extent the Strasburgs - she finally gave up.
[quote] and to a lesser extent the Strasburgs
I dont know how much of a "lesser extent" it really was. From everything I have read, those people were parasites and totally exploited her. Shit, their no talent daughter will still drop everything to do an interview about Monroe and put on her phoney impersonation.
Judy said it best, that she took too many pills, then woke up and took more, not fully realizing how many she'd taken...which is probably what happened to Judy too.
[quote]Marilyn got her last big enema.
What Peter Lawford said about Marilyn's death, implying that she was killed by a drug OD administered in the manner described after she was sedated. Not a joke here.
The autopsy report noted bruising and the results of testing on stomach contents did not align with her death.
Marilyn was way more talented and a much bigger star than that train wreck Lohan, R32.
Marilyn was absent from the set for days, with a sinus infection, so they put her on probation. Then, while still allegedly recovering from the infection, she flew to NYC. The studio had refused permission for her to go, told her they'd fire her, but she went anyway to sing for the President's birthday fundraiser at MSG. Remember? That got Marilyn fired from Something's Gotta Give. She wasn't reinstated at the time of her death.
She was high on prescription drugs and alcohol when she stumbled onto the stage. Her behavior was more and more erratic. She was calling the White House switchboard constantly. She threatened to expose the affair with JFK, who stopped taking her calls.
She was also distraught because she expected JFK's clout to get her reinstated with the movie. But it didn't happen. When Bobby went to California on business, he detoured to her house for a meeting.
He told her she needed to stop calling the WH and making a spectacle of herself. He told her the affair with JFK was over. He promised to help her with her studio troubles,. She was so hysterical they ended up in a shouting match. She said she wasn't going to be discarded like garbage.
Eventually he calmed her down and her "housekeeper" or nurse was called to "give her something" because she was upset. Bobby was gone by then.
I'm not sure, but Peter Lawford was instructed to invite her over to his house that night to a small informal dinner party. She didn't go, but he was one of the people she called to say, "Tell yourself good bye, your a nice person." Or something like that.
Peter claimed he got an eerie feeling after the call. He said she was slurring her words. It's true she was given an enema of drugs, and since she was already over medicated and drunk, that's what did it.
Where things get dirty, is the aftermath. Peter and a PI went to her house before the Emergency call went out, and cleared anything incriminating out of there.
They didn't want anyone prowling thru her diaries, photographs, journals, etc., finding anything to link her to JFK. So they didn't kill her, but they certainly thought of themselves as soon as they learned she was dead.
The truth is, they expected something like this to happen with her. She was telegraphing it thru her behavior for months.
Sinatra was a filthy pig to her. He kept her drugged up at Cal Neva and provided her for entertainment for Sam Giancana and a couple of his top guys. They kept her locked in a room at the lodge, and she overdosed, and an ambulance was called, and it was publicized as a suicide attempt. Frank was despicable.
I've devoured everything I can find about Marilyn and those in that circle over the years. I still adore her.
R40 Her appearance at MSG was on May 19. She was fired from Somethings Got to Give on June 8. She was re-instated at Dean Martin's instance. She even got a raise and got Cukor removed from the picture.
I may be misremembering, but I think Barbara Leaming, Donald Spoto and/or Taborelli dug that the studio had given her approval for the JFK event. It was the cost overruns on Cleopatra and the general shit-state of the studio at this time that led to them firing her. It was later used as an excuse.
The Cal Neva lodge incident is the big piece of the puzzle. If she was in fact drugged up and gang/repeatedly raped it's not hard to imagine that being the final trigger for a deliberate attempt to OD.
As much as I can picture Marilyn having unrealistic expectations of her affair with JFK (on either theory of the affair - be it a single weekend event or an ongoing thing) I can't really picture her topping herself over it when her career prospects were looking so ridiculously sunny after Dean Martin pulled through for her on SGTG. Her career would've been the new thing to cling to.
The accidental suicide/negligent manslaughter theories are the ones that seem the most plausible.
Marilyn Monroe is a strange case. Some biographers (like the Marilyn-loving queen Donald Spoto) depict her an a sensitive, intelligent, caring, fragile creature with a great deal of depth and insight. Spoto is a severe case in that regard; despite all evidence to the contrary he insists that Marilyn was NOT promiscuous, NOT a drug addict/alcoholic, NOT mean and not inconsiderate to her co-workers. He considered her very deep and insightful. Oh sure, she had her problems, but was nothing like the incredibly fucked up slut she's generally made out to be. Spoto is an extreme case, but there are some people who buy that rosy picture of Marilyn.
And then there's the other team. Other biographers paint a portrait of Marilyn as a right mental case; drug-addicted, wildly promiscuous, paranoid, insecure, none too bright, narcissistic, unwashed and oblivious to the needs of others.
The reality is probably that she was somewhere in between those two versions. But people who knew her and worked with have been quoted many times as saying she was terrible to work with, addicted to pills and alcohol, mentally unstable and yes indeed, very promiscuous. Arthur Miller, when asked about the failure of their marriage, said he had to leave her to save himself. "She was beyond help", he said.
I think the conspiracy theories are absurd. She took too many pills and died. It was probably a mercy. Can anyone imagine Marilyn Monroe growing old? SHE couldn't imagine it. She was terrified of growing old. I think she went out when she was supposed to.
[quote]Where things get dirty, is the aftermath. Peter and a PI went to her house before the Emergency call went out, and cleared anything incriminating out of there.
[quote]They didn't want anyone prowling thru her diaries, photographs, journals, etc., finding anything to link her to JFK. So they didn't kill her, but they certainly thought of themselves as soon as they learned she was dead.
Don't forget her publicist Pat Newcomb went to work for the Kennedy's immediately after, even being photographed smiling on their yacht off Cape Cod less than a week after MM's death. Newcomb was also heavily involved in Bobby's election campaign.
What about that PI guy who said he bugged her house and heard Marilyn die after she and Bobby got into an altercation? Those files just recently released last month. He also said he recorded MM and JFK fucking elsewhere.
She saw a vision of the future that included "Smash."
Why did JFK commit suicide? No tinhat theories please!
"She was really screaming and they were trying to quiet her down. She's in the bedroom and Bobby gets the pillow, and he muffles her on the bed to keep the neighbours from hearing. She finally quieted down and then he was looking to get out of there."
I could give a fuck about how much trouble she was behind the scenes or during the takes of scenes.
She was fucking magical in the finished product. She acted Sir Larry right off the screen in "The Prince and The Showgirl." She glowed in SLIH next to that asshole Tony Curtis. Jack Lemmon kept up with her in the funny department.
I read that director Josh Logan was told that while she was working for him in "Bus Stop" that if he talked to her critically or upset her for something stupid that he would have trouble with her from that moment on. Apparently, she took umbrage at the smallest hint of criticism and would turn on the perpetrator, no matter who it was. The only trouble I heard about "Bus Stop" was that she didn't care for Don Murray.
It happened with Sir Larry and she even admitted it, saying something like: "He upset me about something and I started to be bad with him." She knew what she was doing.
She would have been a great "Irma la Douce." Shirley sucked.
[quote]and heard Marilyn die
How do you hear someone die?
[quote]She's in the bedroom and Bobby gets the pillow
Yes, pillows make so much noise when they are carried around.
R48, I read that just this month on and online news website. This lady was the daughter of some PI guy from Hollywood Confidential who bugged the homes and bedrooms of the rich and famous his list of people he bugged was endless, Liberace, Marilyn Monroe, etc. The man died recently and his daughter discovered the tapes and transcripts. The daughter said her father was listening in Marilyn's home on the night she died. Bobby was there and she argued with him saying she was tired of being used like a piece of meat between he and his brother. She was extremely angry to the point it can be heard on the tape Bobby smothering her face to shut her up. eventually there was some more arguing and there was silence from her. She said her father heard Marilyn die.
Also, Joy Behar once said they revealed from FBI documents that were declassified that Marilyn checked into the Carlyle Hotel with Frank PIG Sinatra, Ted Kennedy, Bobby Kennedy and John Kennedy. She was the only women in the room.
Frank Sinatra is the epitome of a filthy pig who used Marilyn because she was willing to have sex with anyone, especially men, to please them because she wanted acceptance from males no matter at what the cost was because she did not have a father. Frank Sinatra was pure evil! He knew she was very vulnerable and took advantage of her and used her to the point it was extremely disturbing.
Joe DiMaggio was far from a saint ,but when Frank and his gang of thugs, Peter, Dean Martin, Sammy, and some others went to her funeral, Joe DiMaggio said, leave! you did enough damage to her!Down below is the link to the the article I read about the bugging.
[quote] it can be heard on the tape Bobby smothering her face to shut her up.
How do you hear such a thing? You cant!
Honestly. If you believe this then I have a bridge in Brooklyn I'm selling. Interested?
Take your benzo, R51. You are overwrought. A nice glass of milk and a hot bath and then off to bed with you.
I'm sure it'sf me of our regular psychic/ghost story/disappeance-obsessed posters R52. They are Uri Geller/Sherlock Homes/Miss Marpke and the Great Carsini all wrapped up together.
Yes, you can hear someone smother another. It's a certain sound ,which many people are aware what it sounds like.In fact, when I was a kid we would rough house now and then and one of the kids put a pillow over another kid's face, and there was a muffled sound from the kid who had the pillow on his face screaming, get it off of me! The kid took the pillow off of the others face and laughed. He was a little creep.
She did not commit suicide - she was murdered by persons unknown(at least to us).
R57 I am sure you have evidence and proof for that?
Marilyn, Judy, Janis Joplin, Michael Jackson were all accidental suicides waiting to happen. It's amazing they lived as long as they did -- all drug addicts who survived numerous overdoses before the big one that killed them.
What was so bad about her childhood, other than father abandonment?
Why did she become such a big star? Never seen any of her movies.
And why would anyone shove drugs up their butt instead of taking them normally?
[quote]What was so bad about her childhood, other than father abandonment?[/quote]
Well, she was given to foster parents, Albert and Ida Bolender, upon birth. Her mother Gladys reclaimed her at age 7 or so and bought a nice little house where they took in boarders. One of the boarders tried to molest Norma Jeane and when she told her mother she slapped her, accusing her of lying and trying to ruin her livelihood. Not long after that, Gladys was having episodes and institutionalized. Glady's best friend Grace McKee stepped in, became her legal guardian, and Norma Jeane lived with her for a bit. But then Grace got married and Norma Jeane was sent to an orphanage. Marilyn would resent Grace for this.
After the 2-year stay at the orphanage, Grace took her back to live with her but that was short-lived because Grace's husband tried to put the moves on the preteen girl. So Grace sent her to her great-aunt Brunings, but again the arrangement didn't last long because she was assaulted by Olive's son. That's when she went to live with Grace's other elderly aunt, Ana Lower, and it was she who made a positive, lasting impression on young Norma Jeane.
But then "Aunt" Ana got sick, so teenage Norma Jeane went back with Grace briefly. But the thing is, Grace and her husband and kids were moving out of state and clear across the country and couldn't afford to bring Norma Jeane with them. So they married her off to neighborhood boy, Jim Dougherty. Norma Jeane had just turned 16 and Jim was 21. Marilyn would also resent Grace for giving her such an ultimatum -- go back to the orphanage or get married. The saddest part, though, is that Grace and her brood were not at the wedding, for they had already moved away. In fact, Norma Jeane had no relatives present, except maybe "Aunt" Ana who sewed her wedding dress and walked her down the aisle and gave her away.
Biographers and psychologists have questioned whether at least some of Norma Jeane's later behavior (i.e., hypersexuality, sleep disturbances, substance abuse, disturbed interpersonal relationships), was a manifestation of the effects of childhood sexual abuse in the context of her already problematic relationships with her psychiatrically ill mother and subsequent caregivers.
I can see how she was a star and she did have talent and charisma, but her breathy little girl voice drives me crazy. I think if she would not have died at the time, her career was pretty much done (harder to play the woman-child when you are closing in on 40 - unless she would have been willing to do supporting character parts) and she would be much more forgotten today.
So I've been sitting here with this little book and a box of tapes in my basement for 50 years and I called Vinny to come take it out to the trash. I don't know why Pauly kept all that shit here but he's dead 27 years and I gotta get room for the furnace man to work.
She was a good actress and she could lose the voice when she wanted too. She would have continued to be beautiful for another 7 years and that would have given her time to get some great parts. She was different then Mansfield.
Possibly she was murdered because the Canaanites were not yet ready to end the Kennedy presidency(they had already planned November 1963) and Marilyn was about to hold a press conference to tell all about her very stupid intimacies with the Kennedy brothers.
So some CIA operatives apparently gave her a massive barbiturate suppository. No drug traces were found in the stomach but there was bruising evidence of suppository in the culo. Mysteriously all lab tests have since 'disappeared'.
Actually, R65, she would probably have had a hard time continuing her career even if she'd kept her looks - because of her lateness and unprofessionalism. She cost the studios quite a lot of money by being late or refusing to work until she felt like it, and they were willing to put up with it only as long as she made them more money than she cost.
Seriously, her career might have seemingly vanished overnight, once the suits decided that financially, she was no longer worth the trouble.
It's not like she could come crawling to Broadway, with all that booze and dope.
I'm coming for you, R51. Papa's getting his back, asshole.
R69, now that you mention Tina Sinatra, how can Sinatra's children think the world of their father when he was a misogynist to the point that he was appalling and disturbing. Also, he was highly into the mafia. He laundered money for the mafia. He was extremely tyrannical and most people in Hollywood back then kissed his ass because they were highly afraid of him.
People have pointed out that Marilyn couldn't have possibly committed suicide because she just ordered furniture from Mexico for her home, She invested in a production company, she told various people I'm going to enjoy this part of my life and I'm living just for me now, and she was excited because she wanted to learn how to cook. It was either an accidental overdose or murder. However, they said there were no drugs of any kind in her system. They have been trying to fight to get a court order to exhume the body or the remains ,but apparently the court said no.
Marilyn was so used by others that it was astonishing. I wish they would exhume the body or her reminds ,and finally reveal the truth and let this poor lady finally get justice if someone did something against her. It's 51 years ago! good grief! Can't the truth finally be reveal or be told!!
Christ R70, your grammar is worse than Constance Langdon but not nearly as entertaining.
"how can Sinatra's children think the world of their father when he was a misogynist to the point that he was appalling and disturbing"
"What was so bad about her childhood, other than father abandonment?"
Foster care. Rape, sexual molestation.
"Marilyn" was seriously mentally ill, if you watch the outtakes from Something's Got to Give on YouTube, you can tell she was tormented. She couldn't have made it much longer, I don't think she intentionally killed herself that night, but there is no doubt she was in a downward spiral. She'd just had her stomach pumped two weekends before her death and she was killing herself a little each night - just like Michael Jackson and Judy Garland. They wanted to die, they just couldn't do it intentionally.
R73, You forgot to add a lack of supportive, consistent parenting, positive father figure and a good role model, strong, reliable guidance, the feeling that someone will always care for you and be there for you no matter what, etc.
Did her mother sleep around? Need money?
Perhaps Sinatra's kids thought that that was the way fathers' were supposed to act, as they had no other great male role models.
Lois Banner wrote about how she was not as much of a fragile victim, and that her promiscuity was actually an early free love type of thing rather than victimhood. She also wrote that Marilyn had many lesbian affairs and confessed to someone, maybe Greenson? that she thought she might be totally lesbian. Banner also wrote that there was a rumor that a picture of the horrors that Marilyn suffered at Cal Neva that shows a passed out Marilyn with Giancana riding her back like a horse. Apparently it was passed around like a big joke among the scumbags in that circle. May she rest in peace.
Women back then, didn't talk about affairs with the President or Senators. That was not going to happen, it would have ended her career.
[quote]However, they said there were no drugs of any kind in her system
I don't know who "they" is, but "they" are wrong.
[quote]The toxicology report shows high levels of Nembutal (38–66 capsules) and chloral hydrate (14–23 tablets) in Monroe's blood
I think what that poster meant was that there was no pill residue found in her stomach, so it must've come in some other way.
R75 - DUH. Why else would she be in foster care?
You have to be careful and not project on to mentally ill people. They'd be miserable fuck-ups no matter their background. Marilyn had a horrid childhood, but her mother was mentally ill. Like mother line daughter.
Marilyn's mother had perfect bone structure, but also the crazy eyes. (Good-looking young woman at the end of the table is MM's half-sister.)
R80 Marilyn's grandmother (Gladys' mother) was also mentally ill and tried to smother young Norma Jeane at one point, and one uncle (on Glady's side) hanged himself.
It is so horrifying how much and the way she was used.
Also, when children who are molested, usually they become promiscuous or they become very sexually rigid. Marilyn would walk into a room wearing little to no clothes and she couldn't understand what was wrong with that.She had trouble with boundaries. Then, not only her famliy had a history of mental illness and she had mental problems, poor Marilyn got repeatedly raped by men when she was just a kid, her life was a major tragedy.
BTW, she use to swallow a lot of pills and then call various people and said good by to them because she was going to kill herself. She did this for desperate attention.
[quote]Lots of people died from the 1930s through the early 1970s taking combos of drugs and alcohol. It still happens today, but in nowhere near the numbers of the past.
I agree, R83. She was an abused, neglected child who grew into a promiscuous, needy adult. It's Psych 101 to say she conflated the sexual attention she generated with acceptance, and the promiscuity with multiple partners as an expression of affection.
She did become more self aware and she did grow in wisdom by the time she'd died. That's what makes her death all the more tragic. She learned, and she grew. She was making plans and was becoming much less dependent on men.
I think, as she looked back on the trajectory of her life, she was often despondent about the way she'd been used. Going to the Actors' Studio, trying so hard to be accepted as a serious actress, reading, studying, and feeding her mind, all in attempt to distance herself from her past.
The movie, My Week With Marilyn, did touch on a few truths about her. She was literally terrified when she walked onto a movie set, especially after being impressed, repeatedly, by the suits, with how much money was riding on her.
There was a constant conflict between the sexually comic public personality she projected in her movies, the Dumb Blonde, and the self- conscious, insecure girl underneath. As she became more self aware, that conflict wreaked havoc with her psyche. She wanted validation as a person with a brain, with a deeper understanding of her craft than she was given credit for.
She kept looking for a man who'd take care of her, rescue her, indulge her, be everything, teacher, mentor, best friend, parent, lover, and no one could fill such an impossible role.
She managed to separate the sex she traded in her early days, from the men she fell in "love" with. All of them were flawed. Joe DiMaggio used to slap her around and was emotionally abusive to her, resented her career and her image. He was a controlling selfish shit.
To me, pictures 7 & 8 are the most beautiful ones of her
R85, I never understood why DiMaggio married a sex symbol and movie star if that's not what he really wanted. Just totally unrealistic?
This is the thing, if you have bad genes in your family...even if your life runs smoothly, you may end up killing yourself, simply because of what you have inherited.
Although I think Marilyn, Michael Jackson and Anna Nicole Smith were all accidents.
the drugs were in her blood but were administered by force(much bruising was there) by suppository, as there were no pill traces in the stomach.
I had no idea there was a half-sister. Whatever became of her? Did she ever speak about her sister?
R87, I think at first, to Joe, Marilyn was some kind of trophy when they first started dating, but her needy "save me, protect me" personality made him want to shelter her. She inadvertently played into his need to be controlling. He became old-country style, macho Italian after they married, and resented the flagrant promotion of her as a sexually desirable icon.
Of course, in between her public appearances, she complained endlessly about being a sex object and how hurtful and unhappy it made her. Maybe he felt like, "If you're so miserable, then quit."
If I'm not mistaken, they spent their honeymoon visiting army bases abroad, so she could vamp it up and do the exaggerated sexy babe routine she was so famous for to entertain the troops. That was the first, but certainly not the last time he smacked her around.
Also he was accustomed to being a star in his own right. He was, after all, and major sports figure, a NY Yankee prima donna. But when they went out together she got all the attention.
Since even lesbo sex wasn't really accepted in MM days, weren't the studios worried that word would get out? Were the paps/rags of the time under that much control?
Berniece Miracle is her name. She's still alive and well (at age 94) and living somewhere in Florida (I think). She was the product of Gladys' first marriage to someone named Jap Baker. They also had a son together, Robert, but he died as a teen of some illness. Both children were born in California, but soon after the divorce, Jap kidnapped the kids and took them to Kentucky where they were brought up.
There's a seven-year age difference between Berniece and Marilyn. They didn't know of each others' existence until they were both adults, so Norma Jeane went through her childhood thinking she was an only child and enduring foster home after foster home, neglect, abuse, etc. I went through a similar childhood, but at least I had my four siblings. I don't think I would've gotten through it without them, so I shudder to think what her situation was like.
Anyway, I don't know how close they were, but Marilyn did leave some money for Berniece in her will. In the 1990s, Berniece (with the help of her daughter Mona) wrote the memoir MY SISTER MARILYN. I haven't read it. Frankly, I think family memoirs tend to sanitize their relative's stories.
"her needy "save me, protect me" personality made him [DiMaggio] want to shelter her. She inadvertently played into his need to be controlling."
Marilyn's relationships with men never worked out, largely because she was not honest with her men. She'd play the little lost waif who worshipped whatever big strong man she was after, she'd make him feel like the center of her universe, and beg him to rescue her from Hollywood or whatever. But once the relationship was established, it would become all about her needs - her continuing unhappiness, her career, her need for validation from others, etc. The men felt devoured and betrayed, that wasn't what they had signed up for.
Really, the only ones able to sustain a relationship with her were the leechlike Strasbergs. They were able to satisfy her neediness and narcissism in a way no man ever could.
True, as piggish as Arthur Miller was I could understand leaving Marilyn. The damage was so deep in her psyche that she would never have peace. When I went to her crypt in Westwood, I leaned down, put my face next to the head stone and said "I wish you such peace and joy and happiness" and I felt an energy that gave me goosebumps, I've never told anyone that.
R95, it's good that you kept it private. I think you should continue to keep it private.
A new book claims Marilyn called Jackie up to taunt her about how she, Marilyn, was going to become First Lady. Hmm, more motive for the Kennedy brothers to have bumped her off. She was too loose a cannon.
"Oh my God. I'm back. I'm home. All the time, it was... We finally really did it ... You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!"
We are switching to the new platform for The DataLounge this weekend. All of our mobile users have been using it for over a week and all first time users have been using it for about a month - which adds up to well over one million users. So we're ready to end this phase of the testing and move everybody to the new site. (more)
And yes, we've changed the look and some of how it operates.
Yes, we know you just *hate* it in well in advance.
Yes, we know we suck.
Yes, we are the biggest suckers that ever sucked.
But it was time for a change and with the huge shift to mobile it was long overdue. We've taken this opportunity not only to update the look but also make major changes under the hood (or "bonnet" if you're either British or pretentious or both). And we have to prepare for 2016 - a presidential election year where we can normally expect to see a 60% jump in traffic (yes, we've seen 5 presidential elections so far…Christ we're old).
The site has a bunch - nay, plethora - of new features which will make the site more usable: better search, the ability to ignore posters and threads, see link previews, to pick up a thread where you left off, spam and malware filtering and more.
If you want you can go explore and see for yourself, Click here.
And while running the tests we've noticed two interesting reactions to the new system - people are spending more time on the site and more people that come stay around longer and look at more stuff. Both good things. Yay!
Possibly we've not slain all the dragons and there will be issues that come up during the switchover. There's a help button in the lower right hand corner of the page which you can use to send us bug reports.
Please include as much information about the hardware (PC, Mac, Tablet, Phone etc), operating system (Windows, Mac OS, Android, iOS etc) and browser (Chrome, Safari, Opera, Internet Explorer etc) that you are using as possible to help us replicate and fix the problem.
Please note that complaints about colors, fonts, icons and the like are not "bugs" - they are design choices that we've made and we expect one or two cases of world-class bitching. But they won't actually cause headaches, scurvy, heart attacks, Restless Leg Syndrome, Morgellon's Disease or the vapors (but have your smelling salts at hand just in case).
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