The lost art of handwriting. School no longer offer cursive writing.
We have a whole generation who can't sign their own name.
Schools only offer keyboarding, instead of handwriting.
Even bakers cannot hand write icing on cakes.
Have you lost the ability to sign your name clearly?
I must offer a correction. The problem with bakeries, particularly the Costco/ Walmart types, is that the employees do not speak English. There is a website of cake disasters. Most of the ones involving language could only have been made with someone either not familiar with the language or who is illiterate in his/her own language. Any true baker would have been taught proper writing with icing in school.
[quote] Any true baker would have been taught proper writing with icing in school.
They actually have to take an extra 'handwriting' course. That wasn't offered before we all became computerized.
Society changes. Now typing skills are far more important because kids growing up now are going into a world where they will be typing everything and physically writing way a small amount.
Cursive isn't an important skill. I never use it outside of signing my name.
Outside of the US, signatures are often elaborate little designs bearing no resemblance to the name.
I realized this last year when my partner and I gave a gift to his ten year old nephew. He opened the card and gave me a look of disbelief, sort of like "are you fucking with me?" I asked him what was wrong when he put it down without reading it. His grandmother opened it and said, " Oh, he can't read cursive. None of the kids can."
It's really bizarre to me that future generations won't be able to read letters from their ancestors, the US Constitution, pretty much any primary records written in cursive. Will graduate students have to hire translators to help them wade through historical documents, or will they just trust that everything has been accurately digitized? It's weird, though I know these kid are quite proficient in areas that I don't even know about.
Why Johnny can’t sign his name: Cursive writing goes the way of the quill
In the age of the keyboard, learning penmanship is no longer part of the curriculum, leaving young people stumped when asked for a signature.
Young people are seriously damaged due to this dependence on handheld devices. As American poet Vincent Neil once said, "God bless the Children of The Damned"
R8: that article is kind of scary. Anyone know if cursive handwriting is optional in American schools too?
Lawyer here and last I checked, X only works if you are demonstrably illiterate to complete any legal action like transferring real property.
I suppose we could switch to thumbprints.
Why all this false discussion about moving to keyboards? People are still being taught how to write by hand, just not in cursive.
Sad, what a sad, sad, joke on the future.
[quote] People are still being taught how to write by hand
If you read the article you would know printing your name is not an option when you sign a document.
I'm in my 30s. I still write cursive everyday in my journal.
If you can't read cursive, you're fucking illiterate.
They are going to ID everyone with biometrics. A scan of your eyeball or your fingerprint will replace your signature.
R16 will the same apply to signing a document. Just a thumbprint?
My nephews, who attended a private school, learned cursive. Is this a public school thing? More of the politically aligned dumbing down of america?
[quote]you would know printing your name is not an option when you sign a document.
Then make it an option.
Eyeball and thumbprint are only viable if there is a complete and comparable-on-the-spot data bank to look at. That isn't going to fly.
Of course a printed signature is acceptable, as is any writing meant to be a signature. Here's what the Uniform Commercial Code says:
§ 3-401. SIGNATURE.
(b) A signature may be made (i) manually or by means of a device or machine, and (ii) by the use of any name, including a trade or assumed name, or by a word, mark, or symbol executed or adopted by a person with present intention to authenticate a writing.
Maybe so, R18. Our nephew attends a public school in Houston, TX.
They still teach cursive in the schools outside of DC.
[quote]Young people are seriously damaged due to this dependence on handheld devices. As American poet Vincent Neil once said, "God bless the Children of The Damned"
That's ridiculous. Cursive writing is means of communication that is no longer useful. Like morse code and typewriters. It's loss means nothing.
We will very soon be identifying ourselves biometrically. The signature as a form of identification is an anachronism.
Cursive writing is obsolete. Period.
"Biometrically". So fancy, R24. You mean like an RIFD chip? No thanks.
Wait until the right meteor comes along and takes all that shit out. I wouldn't complain.
I've always thought that those between the ages of 14 and 25 should be identified by placing their penis in the mouth for a "feel and taste" ID.
I really don't see what the big deal is. Things change. Most documents use electronic signatures now and how many of you are still writing checks?
R24, you're welcome!
No--by fingerprints. Word is the next iPhone will have a fingerprint reader to replace logins and passwords.
So many people fear change. Timeless.
"Oh, he can't read cursive. None of the kids can"
He can't read. And he can't write. Part of the devolution plan, along with lack of funding for schools, lowering school standards, zero-information "news shows" at a very low level, reality tv idiots, kindle and online journals as opposed to print journals and books (which were more accessible), high-cost academic journals, high cost texts, obscenely high cost university education.
Soon the articles will come out about genetic devolution - actually they have started - we are getting stupider. But it is not genetic(that's the cover story, and it's an old one). It is all planned, by the 1% for the benefit of the 1% - it just requires the 99% submitting to it all, asleep. So yes, cursive writing is very important.
My nephew and niece are taught cursive writing at their school.
Old enough that penmanship was a required part of elementary school education. I had horrible handwriting..just pitiful. I constantly failed that part of the courses (WAY back when you had the same teacher all day except for music, phys ed, science).
I was told I would not pass 8th grade and go on to high school if I failed penmanship. I learned to write cursive but to this day any word exceeding 5 letters has a break in it because I was so freaked out by this crazy ass teacher threatening to fail me.
Irony....I have been complemented many times over the years on my handwriting.
I'm in my 20's and I can barely read cursive. I was taught, but it's such an obsolete skill, I never used it and lost it. I've always used printing for my handwriting.
R32 has it. This is not accidental.
Gee I didn't think this thread would take off!
It's like saying we're less intelligent because we don't milk our own cows or churn our own butter. Absurd.
[quote][R32] has it. This is not accidental.
Technology has invoked a change. Really, put away the tinfoil.
Congratulations, OP. Who would have thought this thread would attract tinhats. R32--If you are correct and the 1% is intentionally dumbing down the other 99%, how would cursive writing make a difference? Is it magic?
r32 is right about most of what he says, but not about cursive. It's really not relevant. You have to separate the trivial from the meaningful.
It is a reading and writing TOOL. You can bet they still teach it at private schools.
Go ahead and argue for less for the middle class and the poor, thinking that you are advanced because you are willing slaves to "technology." And aren't we learning how wonderful that is these days?
And where is our milk and food coming from these days? Does anyone really know?
NOT true. I know two kids in different states who are learning cursive in their (public) school classes.
I hope it is still taught in some public schools. They are the ones that will lose it first, though.
Well, R32, you pretty much described this kid as we see him. I agree with everything you wrote, but think the other factors are complicit parents. My nephew's parents flat out do not care about his intellectual development. He's a little upper middle class kid who has an iphone, ipad, whatever the current game system is, is allowed to play ultra violent games that are rated 18 and up (he's ten). They let him play such games and grant him unlimited access to expensive technology because they want him to be "cool" and "popular." I am not kidding. The kid never plays outside, btw and NEVER reads books. Never. But he had such potential, was naturally intelligent. And the parents did nothing to encourage intellectual development because they are lazy. It's easier to stick the kid in front of a screen and the kid gets to brag about his "stuff" to the kids at school.
My partner and I have a circle of friends who are incredibly intellectual. Art History professors, award winning writers, architects, concert violinists and flautists, artists, etc. Their kids are being raised so far at the other end of the spectrum. I wonder what will happen to them in the "real world."
[quote]And where is our milk and food coming from these days? Does anyone really know?
This is a topic that is becoming very interesting to me. I am about to watch the DVD, "King Corn".
Over-reliance on technology is a separate issue. This has nothing to do with any inherent benefits of cursive handwriting. Because there aren't any.
I have seen kids like that, too, R45. The ten year olds with the 18+ violent games, all the tech stuff they want - and they are hooked on it. They sleep in class the next day because they stay up all night with it. They might as well be giving them heroin and needles.
Meanwhile---back at the Evelyn and Walt syndrome....
I am clearing out my parents house. I have noticed that my brother seems to have always used printing. There are several long letters that are all printed. The letters are from college and grad school. My brother is now a heart surgeon. While we correspond mostly by email, he still seems to use only printing.
From a practical point of view, I don't think not learning cursive is an issue. I do think it is an issue as learning cursive also teaches other skills, such as neatness, coordination, focus, etc. My concern is where are the kids going to learn those skills? They may learn some skills from video games. I will acknowledge that. But they don't ;earn the same skills.
PS, my brother also puts dots in the middle of all of his 0's. What's up with that?
My cousin had sent out her wedding invites by snail mail. All the envelopes were addressed in a gold foil cursive calligraphy. Half of them were returned because the mail carriers could not read the writing.
Dots in zeros to distinguish them from the letter O.
r45, what will happen to your friends' kids in the real world is that they'll be considered nerds and dorks by the cool kids, and then they'll grow up to be whatever replaces art historians, writers, and architects in this new world order. The "cool" kids will be the ones who are strongly encouraged to take jobs in the trades, and they will spend their money buying the newest and latest video gaming system, and for some reason live with creditors on the phone and an biannual conviction on some misdemeanor offense.
I think it's easy to blame the government and shitty parents, but why can't kids motivate themselves to learn. There has to be something interesting in this world that kids want to know about.
I'm only 22, I've had a mix of private and public schooling, and always felt obligated to do most of my learning on my own, without suffocating guidance, or constant prodding.
OT: At 14 I stopped using cursive script because I never did like the look of it.
Education consultant here. When visiting classrooms I see that students cannot read nor write cursive penmanship. Lower grade students are not being taught to print correctly either. Students cannot write legible sentences, words are not spaced correctly.
I am avoiding the " keyboarding is more in line with current technology" argument. Learning to form letters correctly as part of a system of writing is important for other reasons. In the primary grades children are still developing neurologically. Hand writing practice involves eye-hand coordination and small muscle development, and encourages the development of organizing written information.
Interestingly, when visiting fifth and sixth grade classrooms students ask me to show them how to write their names in cursive correctly. I have purchased many handwriting practice books as "gifts". I see these kids practicing cursive writing assiduously in spare moments.
We are today so grateful that we were taught by Dominicans in private grade school and private high school.
Good points, and good for you in helping them learn, R55.
My son who is 14 was not taught cursive. Neither was my nephew, who is now in his 30s. I tried to teach my son but he was hostile to the idea and refused. He's a very stubborn kid with a bad temper who would cut off his nose to spite his own face. He's adopted, so it is in his genes. The people at the (overseas) orphanage identified him as having a bad temper when he was just a baby and I thought they were just victims of their culture - lots of superstitions and "signs" about kids personalities and future.
Neither my son or my nephew print legibly. I remember when my nephew was filling out job applications when he was in college, for jobs at places like Target, Best Buy, etc, his writing was illegible. I knew he'd never be called for an interview. How could he? They couldn't read his name.
I teach in the public schools in Utah and it's not a part of the curriculum.
[bold][italic]The Dumbing Down of America![/italic][/bold]
Just like the Republican Party.
If you don't use your hands, you will eventually lose the ability to use your hands and you also lose the immense neural connections that develop and occur between your hand and your brain and how your hands help process information from the external to internal world and visa versa. If you're here, you will learn exactly what that means two generations from now. After that, few will remember what we willingly threw away. And later, no one will conceive certain knowledges obtained from exercising the hand/brain connection ever existed.
People use their hands when keyboarding.
In fact, I cannot type. I use hunt and peck. Never could memorize the keys. Plus, I have baby-sized fingers.
Very well put R61
Another point I failed to make earlier- students have differing learning modalities. When listening to information in secondary and college courses, one must take notes. Of course that can be done on a laptop or other device. Some people record lectures because they are auditory learners. I am proficient in the use of technology. However, as a student and adult learner, I prefer to write out my notes and thoughts. I never had to study much more than review the notes. Seeing it in my own hand, and processing it as I wrote cemented things for me.
I am a high school counselor and have proctored many standardized tests over the years. Have noticed over the past few years, on a section of the SAT [ACT has something similar], how students really struggle when asked to copy a testing integrity statement in cursive. I have so many kids not know what to do and take a very long [and uncomfortable] stab at it. Really interesting to watch the change/decline in this seemingly-simple task.
@ [R45] -- " Their kids are being raised so far at the other end of the spectrum. I wonder what will happen to them in the 'real world.'"
IMO, it'll be far, far easier for those kids to dumb it down and fake it than it will be for your nephew and those educated like him to fake being educated and intelligent.
" It is much easier for a civilized man to imitate a savage than the reverse." - Spock of Vulcan
My father and his sister took shorthand in high school.
Nobody takes shorthand anymore. We're ok.
My son takes sign language. It wasn't even offered when I was in school.
And really, r65, why would the civilized ever want/need to imitate the savage except to use their labor and market mindnumbing products to them? Savages are servants to the civilized and were herded into the savage realm for the purpose of being exploited.
It looks lovely in my diary.
@ R67 -- "why would the civilized ever want/need to imitate the savage...."
Binary thinking is not your friend. :-)
I feel like r61 and r63 are confused. No one is eliminating writing, just cursive. Children everywhere will still be putting pen to paper.
I teach middle schoolers: I teach them cursive despite being questioned about it by two administrators. I told my kids and anyone who'll listen: someday, you may actually want to read something handwritten by Thomas Jefferson. Lightbulb moment for everyone.
They don't know grammar and cannt spell for shit. They think wanna and gonna are words. They are freaking clueless--it scares me.
Why? Standardized testing.
I would go into more but it's exhausting and makes me hate living in Florida even more.
R70, do you mean children are printing letters and words with pen?
If you do not mean printing rather than writing, what do you mean?
Writing is cursive.
What other kind of writing is there besides cursive except of printing?
They should still teach writing with a pen/pencil, but god--at least the handwriting curriculum can't be nearly as excessive as it was when I was in grade school (the mid/late 90s: I'm not even that old). I took mandatory handwriting class from K to 5th grade, and it got to be *RIDICULOUS* for those of us who weren't totally inept.
R72, cursive is not the definition of handwriting. Printing done by hand is also handwriting.
[quote] If you don't use your hands, you will eventually lose the ability to use your hands and you also lose the immense neural connections that develop and occur between your hand and your brain
They're still going to be using their hands to print and to use a keyboard.
The young woman who last spoke to T. Martin cannot read nor write cursive. The cursive letter she "wrote" was written by a friend. It seems to me that the defense lawyer is trying every way he can to call her illiterate and even stupid. Not being able to read or write in cursive form is a part of his presentation.
. Improved neural connections in the brain.... Cursive handwriting stimulates the brain in ways that typing cannot. It improves the dynamic interplay of the left and right cerebral hemispheres, helps build neural pathways, and increases mental effectiveness. According to Virginia Berninger, a researcher and professor of educational psychology at the University of Washington, "Pictures of brain activity have illustrated that sequential finger movements used in handwriting activated massive regions of the brain involved in thinking, language, and working memory. Handwriting differs from typing because it requires executing sequential finger strokes to form a letter, whereas keyboarding only involves touching a key.”
How many remember the Palmer Method chart above the blackboard?
R76, the illiterate witness was lying about not being able to read 'because the letter is in cursive'. She obviously cannot read typewritten words and words on a computer in addition to cursive.
If she knew how to read, reading cursive would not be a problem.
R80, I remember those charts above the blackboard.
I could never accept the capital letter "q" that resembled an elaborate number 2.
R77/78/79, nobody is questioning the value of writing vs. typing; we're questioning the value of cursive writing vs. printing, and none of those links or quotes address that.
R70 have you read the thread title and description?
[quote]The lost art of handwriting. School no longer offer cursive writing.
Yes, I have, r84. Have you?
[quote]School no longer offer CURSIVE writing.
Cursive is not the only way to handwrite something.
writing is writing
printing is printing, not writing
[quote]Cursive, also known as script, joined-up writing, joint writing, running writing, or handwriting is any style of penmanship in which the symbols of the language are written in a conjoined and/or flowing manner, generally for the purpose of making writing faster. However, not all cursive copybooks join all letters. Formal cursive is generally joined, but casual cursive is a combination of joins and pen lifts. In the Arabic, Latin, and Cyrillic alphabets, many or all letters in a word are connected, sometimes making a word one single complex stroke.
[quote]Cursive is considered distinct from printscript, in which the letters of a word are unconnected and in Roman/Gothic letterform rather than joined-up script. Printscript is also commonly called "manuscript", "block letter", "print writing", "block writing" (and sometimes simply "print" which also refers to mechanical printing).
Your point, r87? Both print and cursive are described as writing in your wikipedia quotes.
In schools the jargon is:
one learns to write
one learns to print
At the private school my kids go to, cursive is taught in 3rd grade. There isn't enough time to perfecting cursive and it is given short shrift. The keyboarding skills over cursive take precedence. By 5th grade, most of the kids have abandoned cursive for printing. Neat, legible printing is acceptable over loopy, sloppy cursive. Some children, particularly boys, have a harder time w/ the finer mechanics of cursive. Signing their names in cursive still stands. Eementary students are required to type assignments, research papers, et al. They have online logs they need to access in computer portals for data entry; they have iTouch and SmartPhones to text in. Often, the teachers, who have 25 kids' assignments to grade, prefer grading printing over kids' sloppier cursive. The administration acknowledged to parents that cursive is a dying form of writing due to technology and will become obsolete in school work.
OH great! I majored in Cursive what am I going to do now?
I'm in my early 30s, and cursive was on the way out the door even when I was in elementary school. You did it when you were first learning to write, and then you abandoned it. Even then (the 80s) it was a grandmotherly thing and not a way of writing my parents used.
Dyslexics are happy not to learn cursive writing.
So kids are learning in elementary school how to type using a computer keyboard by or in 5th grade these days?
Having 5th graders being required to type all of their school papers and assignments is something I had not heard of.
(but I know very little about school kids)
r72 is weird
Why can't we all use keyboards that TYPE in cursive?
R88 continue to believe that cursive and printing are both considered handwriting. Nothing will convince you otherwise.
Both dense and obstinate, a winning combination.
[R88] continue to believe that cursive and printing are both considered handwriting. Nothing will convince you otherwise.
Well I'll certainly continue to obstinately believe that facts are facts.
It'll be a sad loss. Many of us know the sheer joy of handwriting with a wonderful pen. Your personality and so much more is right there on the written page. You'll lose that with type. A lot of beautiful things that go along with being human are being lost. Class is one of them...
Wow, never thought this thread would touch a nerve!
I remember receiving a hand written letter from an old college buddy. I feel silly about it, but it was a lovely small thrill. So nice to hear from him, his taking the time to pen it and seeing his writing made it special.
Too long, didn't read.
Printing is definitely printing and NOT handwriting.
I had to watch someone print something because he did not know cursive. It took him forever.
Can't wait until we have a president who can't read the Declaration of Independence because the government schools he attended thought cursive writing was a waste of time.
[quote]continue to believe that cursive and printing are both considered handwriting. Nothing will convince you otherwise.
Considering that this is precisely what the dictionary says, I'm not sure what point you think you're making.
1. writing done by hand; especially : the form of writing peculiar to a particular person
2. something written by hand
[quote]Both dense and obstinate, a winning combination.
You were saying?
[quote] Printing is definitely printing and NOT handwriting.
Sorry, hon. You write with your hand when you are printing. And they don't have separate handwriting experts for printing.
Cursive and printing are different forms of handwriting. But they're both handwriting. Believe me, I've read enough doctor's notes to safely say that "illegible handwriting" includes printing as well as cursive.
How will they ever be able to sign a check at checkout?
Exactly, you need to sign documents
Thanks to whoever brought this thread back! I opened a new one titled "Penmanship" because my hand writing has become so awful. I thought I was really the only one experiencing this. Sorry about the duplicate!
My writing has lost a lot of its luster -- I had Best Penmanship in most of my grammar school grades -- because I use the computer so much. My hands hurt when I write with a pen, and are very stiff, so it looks different.
I can still print nicely, though.
R107 They'll mark them with a big X like the peasants of yore.
I'm only in my early 30's, but I prefer cursive writing to printing or typing on a computer.
I have some of the most beautiful cursive penmanship you will ever see, and I use it often. My signature is a thing of glory, and I write letters to dear friends, family, and my boyfriend on a weekly basis.
I feel nothing but abject pity for any sort of fool who will never know the joy of writing with a good fountain pen on exquisite stationery.
[quote]My writing has lost a lot of its luster -- I had Best Penmanship in most of my grammar school grades -- because I use the computer so much. My hands hurt when I write with a pen, and are very stiff, so it looks different.
I'm the same. Once had beautiful handwriting & now when (once every month) I pick up a pen I write like a five year old. Yet my mother in her late 90s who doesn't use 'devices' has the same elegant copperplate handwriting she had in 1927. If you don't use it you definitely lose it!
What is sobering is the little fuckers can only print, yet they somehow turn out flawless cursive graffiti tags on the walls of my neighbourhood.
[quote]I have some of the most beautiful cursive penmanship you will ever see
= Puts circles instead of dots above his 'i's like Princess Di.