White women hate murderers just as much as black women do. I don't think race is going to be a factor in the jury's decision.
I'd like to think we all learned something from the OJ acquittal.
No, I think race will be a factor. Having more black women on the jury will be better for the prosecution. I'm not sure white women will find Martin as sympathetic.
r2 wrote exactly what I was going to point out. The prosecution would have been better off with white men. Any woman who has felt menaced may side with the defense. Men would be less likely to do so. On the other hand, a black woman will vote to convict in this case no matter what. A Hispanic woman could go either way, but would probably favor Zimmerman a little.
Falling in love with a young, fit, and hot defendant won't be an issue.
Florida uses 12 jurors in capital cases, which this is not.
WTF is OP talking about??? He must live a very sheltered life. If anything, white women will see Martin as a hoodlum, someone who comes into their white neighborhoods and tears up the joint.
It doesn't even matter though -- the law protects Zimmerman. They will not be able to find him guilty when it comes to shooting Martin.
BTW, this is Florida, a very conservative state. They have laws where you can shoot from your car. The Right To Bear Arms is #1 with them.
I'm surprised that the jury is all white, but that said, I think women will look at the situation in light of "what did he do to you to make you shoot?" versus men who (I think) would look at the situation more in terms of "that guy had no business being on my turf (so I shot him)." Just because Martin was black and kind of shady looking doesn't mean that women will automatically give Zimmerman the benefit of the doubt
Yes, why only six jurors? Other FL trials have had 12, no? I'm thinking of at least Casey Anthony.
It is funny how people here use gender, race, etc, as the deciding factor of this case. They don't believe for a second that jurors will come up with a verdict based on the evidence presented. How sick.
...But wait, let me guess, OP is watching Nancy Grace, heard this drivel, and ran to create a thread regurgitating it and presenting it as his own expert analysis. lol
[quote]I think women will look at the situation in light of "what did he do to you to make you shoot?" versus men who (I think) would look at the situation more in terms of "that guy had no business being on my turf (so I shot him)."
or they can hear the evidence and make up their own minds based on it, sexist creep.
Casey Anthony was a capital case.
I tend to agree with you, R11. I think that male jurors in this situation would be more likely to place the burden of proof, if you will, on the deceased defendant.
Zimmerman's lawyer is happy about the jury selection, that is not a good sign. The 911 calls are disturbing to listen to. You can hear Trevon say "HELP". His poor family.
Is Zimmerman a little "special"?
This isn't a capital case. It's criminal.
Also, Florida law states: there's no duty to retreat when being threatened.
R13 - Jurors do weigh evidence, but they also come in with life experience and that plays a role.
I honestly don't think any of us can predict the outcome of this. Everyone is guessing or talking out of their ass. That said, Zimmerman should be convicted. He pursued, with a gun, an unarmed teen, because he looked suspicious. And if he actually did fight back, wasn't Trayvon "standing his ground"?
If some asshole vigilante nutjob with a criminal record started chasing me through my father's complex with a gun I'd fight for my life too.
r19, you base their life experiences on gender and race? Wow, what a life. I'm sure they have much more in their backgrounds than that. It would be interesting to see the questionnaires and the answers they provided. They were asked about their stance on gun rights.
The law is the problem here. It's all subjective. If Zimmerman says that he "felt" threatened, then under the law, he's innocent. It doesn't matter if he was even attacked. We just had two other cases where people got away with murder thanks to the Stand Your Ground law.
The only reason why Zimmerman is on trial is because of the bad publicity that state and the police received. They were right in letting him go the first time, and they don't actually have anything to charge him with -- besides the crap he and his wife pulled while he was in the pen.
Florida is the armpit of America. Do not be shocked if Zimmerman walks right out of court a free man.
[quote]Is Zimmerman a little "special"?
I couldn't help but wonder. He seemed to schlub through life before the incident, not even finishing a community college degree after years.
The thing that clinched it for me was his internet legal defense scam that he was caught for. While he was in jail, he and his wife had a "secret code" during visits to discuss how they were going to use the cash. As it turned out he was planning to pay off a lot of expenses unrelated to the defense including an AMEX card. Just regular bills/living expenses that had accumulated over time to the tune of over $60K, IIRC. There were transcripts of these interactions from jail recordings and it wasn't hard to catch on that they were up to something. He'd clearly hatched and was directing the whole thing directing his wife what to do with the monies in "code." It was kind of pathetic.
R18 - that's issue before the court isn't it?
Was Zimmerman being threatened?
I'm not convinced the prosecution will be able to get a conviction.
Is all the defense has to do is convince one person that Zimmerman felt threatened and acted in self defense. Actually - they only have to convince one person to have doubts about it.
Personally I'm glad I live in state where the fact Zimmerman just didn't drive away and call the police would be enough to convict.
[quote] It would be interesting to see the questionnaires and the answers they provided.
Jurors were probably asked if they had ever been a victim of a violent crime, but probably not asked if they ever felt menaced by a large teenager dressed like Martin was. Some of the 5 probably have been in the past and so that's why I guessed they will be more sympathetic to Zimmerman.
We don't know these six women at all. We weren't in court when they were selected. This is complete conjecture. Of course, demographics are important when picking a jury, but focusing just on gender and race are mere snapshots in the matrix of what makes a juror good for a particular side in a particular case.
They will never convict Zimmerman
I have a feeling he won't get convicted either.
[quote] They will never convict Zimmerman
Or the LA riots will look like a bonfire.
Isn't he in jail/custody? If so, how could he pack on the pounds? I don't think jails/prisons have buffets.
[quote] Zimmerman's lawyer is happy about the jury selection, that is not a good sign.
Eh, Zimmerman's lawyer would have been "happy" about the jury selection had six black teens been selected. It's all a front at this point and it's his job to project confidence.
If I were him, I'd keep Zimmerman off the stand. That guy's a dim bulb and won't impress anyone -- especially now that he's turned into a tub of lard.
That rich guy who fired on a car full of teens after drunkenly telling them to turn down their music in a FL gas station parking lot is so lucky. And so rich. Could be a connection.
I guaran-fucking-tee those fish will end up all estrogen-driven feeling sorry for Zimmerman, thinking he is hot latino, secretly thinking they can turn a bad man good again, and after it is over one of them will want to date him, and you just watch. Zimmerman will go free or get a slap on the wrist.
Trevon family, y'll in danger girls.
R28. We have that to look forward to. Nothin cures an injustice like burning other people's property and looting stores,
I'm a white woman and I would convict Zimmerman today. But things are different down South. If these women are true Southerners, they may be sympathetic to Zimmerman.
And it won't help if Zimmerman's white family is put on the stand. Isn't his father white? That will help him in the eyes of these jurors.
I predict a not guilty verdict.
1 of the 6 says not guilty and he walks.
They can have a do over, but he still walks.
The prosecutor's case is weak, Weak, WEAK.
I think Zimmerman is eating his guilt.
NO WAY Zimmerman gets convicted of murder 2.
The prosecution's only hope is manslaughter.
Maxine Waters at R28,
That's not gonna work anymore!
R35, I'm a white, true southern woman and I'd have a hard time getting on the jury because I want to see justice served for Trayvon. I bet you think you're open minded. Bless your heart.
I can't believe we live in a country where you can kill someone and if no witnesses are around, you can claim "he came after me" and can go free.
r10 is right. Trayvon looks more scary to the white chick, there is one bi-racial (half-black/half-white) chick on the jury that will most likely think that T. was an innocent little child but the others? Nope, and frankly I don't blame them. TM was a thug. Good riddance!
Trayvon was definitely a thug in the making, and he was damn proud of it.
His parents are either delusional or clueless.
Mark Geragos said on Anderson Cooper tonight that this jury is excellent news for the Defense, and even Marcia Clark said it could go either way.
You never no. If Zimmerman gets off, I wouldn't be surprised if this explodes.
The prosecution wanted to strike 2 jurors that made the cut, but the judge said no.
Geragos can spin all he wants, but there's a reason Zimmerman had a big fat smile on his face today.
Does FL remember the Liberty City riots?
They're just going to let him get away with murder. He stalked an unarmed kid when he was told not to and he killed him but it won't matter to the jury because the kid was black.
How is that a jury of his peers?
[quote]Geragos can spin all he wants, but there's a reason Zimmerman had a big fat smile on his face today.
Geragos is the one who pointed out the news was good for Zimmerman.
Sorry, my mistake. I read post R44 wrong.
Oh, r40. I am a white, Southern woman. I know from personal experience that there is a special kind of Southern woman who will aquit Zimmerman because of the racial dynamics of this case. They will put themselves in his shoes and think that, as Florida's Stand Your Ground law is written, Zimerman acted lawfully. All the "bless your hearts" in the world won't change that fact. And if you were an honest woman, you would admit the truth in my words. But you're not honest, you're not a woman and you're no Southerner. Nice try, sugar.
I hope you're right OP. I happen to be a middle aged white female and own a home in FL (inherited and shared with my brother from our dad.) It's in a very affluent and NON gated community where visiting friends and family are pretty much the norm regardless of what they might look like on the surface. Neither my brother, I or my partner would EVER follow or try to confront some teen who is more than likely a guest of neighbors because "he looked like he was up to no good." Truly suspicious behavior then we'd definitely call the cops but Zimmerman obviously grossly over-reacted to nothing and put this whole sad chain of events in motion. I'd vote to convict him in a heartbeat.
I'm a little uneasy about second degree murder but manslaughter doesn't seem quite appropriate either. GZ started the whole thing and should be held accountable. But it's really the law itself that needs to be changed.
I'm not sure everyone gets this but there are at least 2 Floridas and probably 3 or 4. There are absolutely backwoods redneck areas but that isn't the entire state. While FL is technically a southern state it really isn't in a many ways.
I'm not familiar with Stanford and don't know where it falls on the 50 Shades Of FL scale but GZ must and likely will be convicted of something. I'm not a lawyer but I think reckless homicide would probably be a decision that both sides could support.
That and get rid of this horrific SYG law. We all get sometimes you have to do what you have to do to protect yourself in dire situations but this situation was entirely of Zimmerman's own making and he shouldn't get to hide behind a HORRIBLE law to justify his entirely unjustified actions.
I would not have allowed an all-one gender jury I was the Prosecutor.
And why is it only 6 jurors and not 12?
Great post R53, could not have said it better myself.
[quote]Neither my brother, I or my partner would EVER follow or try to confront some teen who is more than likely a guest of neighbors because "he looked like he was up to no good
How is that in any way analagous to the Martin/Zimmerman situation?
Are you a neighborhood watch person? Are you aware of recent break ins in your neighborhood? Had there been recent alerts from the police to be on the look out for suspicious and/or unknown persons in your neighborhood?
Seriously what you in your circumstances would have done in different circumstances than that which existed in this case is irrelevant and unhelpful.
R40 - I doubt you could get on any jury with that attitude.
Imagine if the racial roles were reversed: a young, white man is walking through a neighborhood being followed by a older, black man. The white man, suspecting that the black man is about to assault him, hides and angrily confronts the man who is following him. The black man shoots the white man.
I would imagine that white people nationwide would claim that the white man was defending himself, as per Florida stand your ground law, from a suspicious black man who had been told to stand down by others. But since Trayvon Martin was a "thug" (ie a young, black man who might have embraced "gangsta" culture, like millions of suburban white kids) then suddenly Martin is in the wrong.
[quote]How is that in any way analagous to the Martin/Zimmerman situation?
Are you a neighborhood watch person? Are you aware of recent break ins in your neighborhood? Had there been recent alerts from the police to be on the look out for suspicious and/or unknown persons in your neighborhood?
More so that you think r56.
No, I'm not an "official" neighborhood watch person and neither was George Zimmerman. When he claims to be then he should be called on being the most irresponsible one ever because he broke every guideline in the book. By the way, there was a group in my neighborhood that tried to organize a neighborhood watch program as well as lobby for the right to carry concealed weapons in an over reaction to a very strange and tragic murder in the area. They were overwhelmingly shut down.
And yes I am absolutely aware of every recent break-in and any other odd situation in my neighborhood because we have this nifty little e-mail alert system between the local police and various neighborhood associations.
I'm not scared of my neighbors r56. We're not friends on a social level but all of us watch out FOR each other and could rationally tell anyone when something didn't feel right.
George Zimmerman was just such a paranoid and reactionary hothead with a gun who chased down and shot a neighbor's guest for no reason. Who feels the need to take a gun to what was apparently supposed to be a routine chore run to a big box store???
If that's your idea of a "neighborhood watch" then I'm really glad you aren't my neighbor.
[quote]If anything, white women will see Martin as a hoodlum, someone who comes into their white neighborhoods and tears up the joint.
Martin was not in a white neighborhood when he was killed. He was in HIS neighborhood.
[quote]BTW, this is Florida, a very conservative state.
The last election begs to differ.
[quote]there is a special kind of Southern woman who will aquit Zimmerman
Chances are many of these women are from the north originally. Ive been down here 4 years and I have yet to meet a native Floridian or someone who grew up in the south. None of them consider themselves southerners.
Zimmerman will be found not guilty.
R62. Possibly, but for now he is not guilty and should be treated that way.
[quote]I'm not familiar with Stanford
I am. I doubt if Martin will get justice in Sanford. Zimmerman will walk due to SYG and the fact that Martin was Black.
I was offered a very good job in Sanford a few years ago. I looked the town over for a few days and it was like being in Bubbaville. I opted for San Diego instead.
Just an FYI for some of you, yes race and gender matter very much on how a juror decides a case. Millions of dollars have been spent of behavioral studies documenting the differences. Jury selection can be very big business on a high profile case. I doubt much money was spent of jury selection in this case,however; I am sure both attorneys are very well versed on the behavior of jurors.
Trayvon Martin was 17. One of the features of several of the jurors is that they are mothers. And at least one or two have older children. If they've been through teen-aged antics with their own kids, then the prosecution may emphasize that he was just a boy against this vigilante.
Zimmerman is looking more and more guilty, isn't he? The extremism of the prosecution is very telling, desperation isn't a good sign.
Have we seen any Trayvon variations in recent baby names cropping up yet?
What do you think a capital case is? All capital cases are criminal cases.
Anyone know who has children on the panel? I would take mothers of any race before I would want women without children. Every mother who is sane will see a child before she sees what race he is.
"Is all the defense has to do is convince one person that Zimmerman felt threatened and acted in self defense."
Then the prosecution needs to define self defense.
If Zimmerman was threatened by Martin, why did he choose to pursue him after he had the opportunity to get away? He even called the police and ignored their orders to leave Martin alone.
If I felt I was being threatened, the last thing I would do is go out of my way to follow the person who is threatening me. Especially after I've called the police and they tell me that they are going to handle it.
And "They always get away with it?" What did Zimmerman mean by that?
Judge excludes state audio experts in George Zimmerman trial
By DAVID OVALLE | dovalle@MiamiHerald.com
Sat, 22 Jun 2013 11:24 EDT
In a major blow for the prosecution in the George Zimmerman case, a judge on Saturday barred the testimony of two audio experts who suggested that a taped 911 call indicated Trayvon Martin was crying out for help during the violent struggle that ended with a gunshot.
The testimony of Tom Owen and Alan Reich, both of whom analyzed a 911 call by a neighbor that captured the sounds of the brawl, was key for the state because it could have painted Zimmerman as the aggressor.
The neighborhood watchman is accused of fatally shooting Trayvon, an unarmed teen from Miami Gardens, during a confrontation inside a gated Sanford community in February 2012.
The police's delay in charging Zimmerman, who claimed self-defense, sparked large civil rights rallies in Sanford and drew worldwide headlines.
In the ruling released Saturday, Seminole Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson said prosecutors can still play the 911 tape and other recordings at trial, and lawyers can introduce witnesses who are familiar with the voices of Trayvon or Zimmerman to testify about the identity of the person or persons screaming.
In her 12-page order, sent via e-mail to the lawyers in the case, Nelson found that the methods the two men used to analyze the audio were not generally accepted in the scientific community.
"There is no evidence to establish that their scientific techniques have been tested and found reliable," she wrote.
She singled out Reich, who claimed he heard Trayvon saying specific phrases, including "I'm begging you." Nelson said his report to the prosecution, which differed from one given earlier to a newspaper, "would confuse issues" and "mislead the jury."
The judge's decision on the audio experts was highly anticipated.
Previous hearings on the experts, heavy on scientific jargon and explanations of computer software and national standards, unfolded during five separate days over the past two weeks, concluding Thursday afternoon.
The key 911 call, made by a neighbor reporting the violent scuffle, captured the cries of someone in apparent fear.
Reich claimed in his report that he hears Zimmerman say "these shall be," which he calls a "seemingly religious proclamation," while Trayvon, scared and in a high-pitched voice, screams, "I'm begging you," just before the shooting.
Another state expert, Tom Owen, used computer software to analyze a four-second snippet of cries. He compared it to a sample of an audio clip of Zimmerman, and concluded the voice on the 911 call did not belong to him.
In an effort to keep the testimony from being used as evidence for jurors to consider, Zimmerman's defense team challenged the reliability of the science involved. On Tuesday, a defense expert, James Wayman, testified that Owen's methods were "fundamentally flawed."
Defense attorney Don West, on Friday, mocked Reich's report, saying it showed Trayvon and Zimmerman "having a conversation" and that the document should begin, "It was a dark and stormy night."
Prosecutor Rich Mantei shot back, saying that the defense had told the press that a defense expert would say Zimmerman was the voice crying out. But no such expert was ever produced, Mantei said.
Very bad development for the prosecution, R71.
[quote]What do you think a capital case is? All capital cases are criminal cases.
No, they're not, dumbass. That's in theory. Under the law, there is a criminal trial, and then there's a capital. This is not a capital case, thus the reason for the number of jurors chosen.
12 jurors = Capital
6 jurors = Criminal
[quote]Under Florida law, six-person juries hear all criminal cases except capital offenses. The charges against Zimmerman do not make it a capital case.
Funny how many people equate justice with revenge.
If it is proved that Zimmerman and Martin got into an altercation that had Martin straddling Zimmerman and banging Zimmerman's head into the pavement then a jury may find that Zimmerman had reasonable cause to fear for his life, thereby giving him the legal right to use deadly force in self-defense.
And if that is the case and Zimmerman is acquitted then Martin will receive justice in the form of having had a fair trial to determine the cause of his death. People have forgotten that the original scandal was that Zimmerman was released without charges and that the state was willing to allow Martin's killing to occur without benefit of a trial.
By the way, I am not arguing in Zimmerman's favor, I am only pointing out that it is entirely possible that his lawyers may successfully (and perhaps accurately) demonstrate that he acted within the bounds of state law when he shot Martin.
The problem lies with the law. The law clears Zimmerman of any legal wrongdoing. No one is talking about getting this law repealed.
I don't think that anyone is getting justice here. Sad.
R64. I assume you know they are not pursuing the SYG defense now, right? They are pursuing self defense.
R73 - read your own quote. Using the word "except" clearing means capital offenses are criminal cases.
R64 - not exactly. Zimmerman's lawyers successfully argued that the SYG hearing did not have to occur before the trail. Zimmerman would have had to testify at a SYG hearing - speculation is that his lawyers wanted to avoid this.
As of right now - Zimmerman can request a SYG hearing after the defense has presented its case. In other words the defense can see the prosecution's entire case - and if they think there is not enough evidence for the prosecution to succeed at a SYG hearing they will probably request one.
The advantage to SYG immunity is that not only does it prevent criminal cases but also civil cases.
This is a great jury for the prosecution, and DL knows it.
This board hates "fraus" and makes fun of iVillage.
They will see that GZ is a danger to society. As mothers, they want kids to be able to walk home from the store without being targeted. (Much less being killed.)
I have total confidence that OP is correct. The evidence irrefutably supports the prosecution. I don't even know where to start.
But GZ's own words will do him in. He said TM was on top of him when GZ fired his weapon but that's impossible because TM was shot from an intermediate distance. His sweatshirt was stretched. It was being pulled.
The evidence is stacked against GZ. The fraus won't be able to overlook it. People who haven't been following this closely will be shocked at how this guy chased down the kid, confronted him with a gun, detained him against his will, and then shot him in the heart just to see what it felt like.
Seriously. People have no clue.
R80 - read your own link. Zimmerman waived his right to a pretrial SYG hearing.
Even your link makes it clear - the SYG immunity hearing has been merged with the trial. He can have his SYG hearing after the defense is done.
[quote]Traditionally, the parents of the bride hosted the wedding reception, not the married couple who are, in fact, the guests of honor. Things have changed now that there will be no bride or two brides at weddings, but the married couple are still the guests of honor.
I get what you're saying r251 but once upon a time it was also traditional for the bride's family to throw in some land and livestock to sweeten the deal between the two families. It was called a dowry.
You can't declare yourself to be the guest of honor at a party that you're hosting for yourself. If your family or friends graciously take it upon themselves to host a party on your behalf then that's lovely but any gift still has to be taken in the spirit it's given. Anyone who doesn't know or care about the guests of honor well enough to know what would delight them should have never have been invited in the first place.
The prosecution has absolutely NOTHING....
wouldn't surprise me if it comes back an unanimous not guilty.
r84 id doing racist wishful thinking.
We'll talk after the verdict, r85.
I'll be here and calm. Will you?
[quote]The prosecution has absolutely NOTHING
Other than the fact that the confrontation was initiated by Zimmerman. Yea, sure.
I've been a defense attorney for over 20 years and I'm really not sure which side an all female jury favors. I've discussed it with several colleagues and there's mixed feelings about it but you really never know.
After all these years I still can't get over a 6 person jury for serious felonies. For a murder case I am beyond appalled.
Forgot to mention that, yes, of course a capital case is still a criminal trial. "Capital" is just a category of criminal cases like felonies, misdemeanors.
I think two good reasons never to go to Florida are:
1) Stand your ground law
2) High rate of wrongful convictions
Lesson is: Never be caught alone with anyone else in FL. They can kill you and say you were threatening them.
- When interviewed by Det. Serino, GZ said that dispatch told him to stop following the kid.
- the kid was killed closer to his destination than to GZ's truck, which was 40 feet behind them. Obviously, GZ followed the kid.
- there are only three streets in that neighborhood, yet the self-appointed Watch Captain claims did not know which street he was on
- the kid had no offensive injuries. If you've ever broken a nose, your knuckles got swollen and bruised. TM's were not.
- the kid did not have his killer's blood on him, yet supposedly strangled the man with the broken (bloody) nose
- the kid did not have the killer's DNA under his finger nails, yet supposedly grabbed the man's head and repeatedly slammed it into the concrete.
- an ear witness heard the gunman confront the kid and the kid ask why he was being followed.
- the kid was unarmed
- the kid had nothing illegal on his person
- how could the killer have screamed for help for 45 seconds while simultaneously being strangled?
- the killer never went to the hospital for his "life threatening injuries". A nurse practitioner recommended he see an ENT MD; GZ refused.
- Neighborhood Watch volunteers are prohibited from following suspicious persons. They are also told not to pack heat. GZ had his wife's gun on him.
- GZ said TM was on top of him when he fired his weapon, but TM was shot from "intermediate" range and not "close" range.
- the kid was about 40 pounds lighter than the killer
- GZ has a history of violence, has been arrested multiple times, molested his younger cousin, and was forced to attend Anger Management classes. He had restraining orders against him, and was fired from at least two jobs...one for overpowering a drunk woman, another for bullying a Muslim coworker. He kicked a neighbor's dog, and shut the power off on the house his mother was living in.
- we haven't seen the contents of GZ's phone yet
- GZ's wife was arrested for perjury for lying to the judge about their finances. The two of them spoke about it in in code when he was in jail.
- GZ is on at least two different prescription medicines for mental disorders. He was not tested for drugs or alcohol that night.
- the only homicide detective on the case that night wanted to arrest GZ for manslaughter, but was told by Chief Lee, per DA Wolfinger (who arrived in person late that night), that GZ had to be released because of SYG
- GZ is not claiming SYG in this trial.
- GZ was only arrested after international protests. Had the national media not picked this up, it would have been swept under the rug. In fact, GZ expected it to blow over in a few days. Interesting how some people hate the media so much.
We all know that men and women are different. There is no way a mom or grandmom can overlook these harrowing facts, even if they themselves are racist. Just wait until the death scream is played in open court. GZ will want to hide under the table. It's already written all over his face: that is not him screaming. It defies common sense. That is a terrified, harrowing, desperate death cry.
The whole world is watching.
* GZ had his wife's gun on him;
Loaded with hollow point bullets...the deadliest kind there is. Designed to kill instantly; not maim. They are illegal in some states. Cops fear them.
[quote] Other than the fact that the confrontation was initiated by Zimmerman. Yea, sure.
And the fact that Zimmerblob walked away with a few scratches and Martin is dead.
Zimmerman shot a thug. A thug who would've killed someone in the next few years. Good riddance.
Well lets see if he could do us all a favor.r95 is a moron, and will continue to be a moron and annoy intelligent people. Call Zimmerman up and have him kill R95 so the world will improve even more.
Why anyone doesn't see George Zimmerman as the unstable, gun nut that he is, is beyond me.
He's a cop wannabe.
He flunked out of community college.
He applied for a cop job but didn't get it.
He appointed himself as "neighborhood watch captain."
He disregarded Neighborhood Watch rules.
He had called the cops numerous times before for petty reasons.
He profiled the kid.
He disregarded the Dispatcher's instruction.
He was a gun shooting enthusiast. He had a concealed weapons permit, despite prior arrests. He said he never goes anywhere without his firearm. It was loaded with the deadliest bullets available.
He referred to the kid as "the suspect," even though the kid was not suspected of anything. He was just black, tall and walking in the rain with a hoodie on.
He said "they always get away" about "the suspect."
He uttered, "effin' poonks" on one of the recorded calls. This shows his frame of mind: he was clearly justified to use force.
People like r95 did not want this case to ever go to trial because they knew people would be shocked if they saw all of the evidence in the light of day. What GZ did to that kid is nothing less than a modern lynching.
They hate the media for the same reason Paula Deen does: it exposes the ugly truth.
An example of the race-baiting "truth" the media exposes to rile up morons like R98.
r95 is full of shit and just trying to stir the pot.
I have heard the recording of the voice screaming for help. Made my hair stand on end.
He shot that boy in cold blood after he screamed for 45 seconds. Try screaming for that long and imagine then shooting someone anyway after them begging and whining and pleading for their life.
Fucking dangerous insane asshole.
He stalked Trayvon and murdered him. But this is Florida, there is never justice for African Americans in Florida, never. All I can hope is that when Zimmerman is released, someone will track him down and cripple him for life.
At the link you can hear the 911 calls and the call Zimmerman made to 911.
I'm black and I believe that Zimmerman will get off. I truly do expect the worst from people. That the jury is all female makes little difference to me. When you have the experience of being a black male and seeing white women literally shrink and become uncomfortable in your presence everywhere you go you realize just how afraid they are of black men. Even at 17 years old, Martin will be presented as a scary, threatening grown man. The prosecution will exploit every fear that these women have ever had of a black man and Zimmerman will get off.
It's really that simple.
You are right R104, there will be no justice for Trayvon...as I said, my only hope is that someone else will take care of the situation.
I agree with 104 that this is possible this is my fear also. But there is one Black woman on the jury of six. Not sure if they need unanimous or just majority to convict.
If he does walk however it will be like OJ. In time this Zimmerman guy will do something stupid and have to stand before a court again. Next time will be even messier than this case and those that helped him go free will have a major weight to carry the rest of their lives.
I don't know if Zim will get off, but he shouldn't. He is a murderer.
What is it about people like R95? They think they have some crystal ball where they can see into the future and make predictions. Of course, those predictions never come true.
What if Trayvon had been the fatty?
He won't get off. There is no way around the evidence. There's no proof that Trayvon Martin did anything wrong at all.
All of this is GZ's fault. Had he obeyed Dispatch like he had agreed to, and not follow the kid, Trayvon Martin would still be alive today.
The entire scenario transpired in fewer than ten minutes.
Look at nature: females rabidly protect their babies. They also nurse orphans...even ones from other species.
Trayvon was not a thug. He was a typical American teenaged boy.
That's why the Zupporters hate young photos of Trayvon. It hurts them so much that he was not a thug they can't bear to look. So they don't.
The jury WILL conclude that wannabe cops like GZ are a danger to society. Teenagers should be allowed to walk to the store and back safely.
[quote] I have heard the recording of the voice screaming for help. Made my hair stand on end.
Well, R101, so did Trayvon's dad. And he knew immediately it wasn't his son and said so.
I hope George Zimmerman walks free and has a wonderful life.
....because he's innocent and was attacked by a fucking nasty thug.
Omgg! The kkk has arrived!
R112, the fact that GZ said the scream "didn't even sound like him" is more compelling than a confused, grieving dad.
So...I guess they'll have to play the scream in court and let the jurors hear for themselves.
They'll have this to decide:
- does that "yell for help" sound like an adult man armed with a weapon loaded with hollow point bullets?
- does that scream sound like a death scream?
Moreover, GZ was calm & collected according to the first witness on the scene. His vitals were normal within minutes of the scream.
The dream stopped suddenly when the gun was fired.
Again, GZ will want to hide his face when they play this in court. It's obvious from space that that is not him desperately crying for help for 45 seconds.
Therefore, it must have been Trayvon Martin. If TM was yelling for help, then clearly, he was NOT the aggressor. GZ did not act in self-defense. At best, he lost his cool. At worst, he fired in cold blood despite the child's pleas.
Wow, SheLie can type.
R98 / R97 / R93 / R92 / R81,
I see you are intent on filling up another thread with your misstatements about the evidence and your unfounded and hysterical speculation.
You've said the seem things in the last thread and they were factually incorrect then and they are still factually incorrect.
Unlike you, the jury will be instructed they may not speculate or wildly guess about what happened that night. They may only use evidence and make reasonable inferences based on that evidence. And explaining an inference to you as opposed to wild speculation is a waste of time.
[quote] the fact that GZ said the scream "didn't even sound like him" is more compelling than a confused, grieving dad
Sorry, but again you are off base. People rarely realize what their own voices sound like so Zimmerman not recognizing his own voice tells me nothing. Parents know what their own child sounds like. Why do you assume that the father was confused? And grief makes you sad but it doesn't make you stupid.
Additionally there is also at least one eyewitness who said the person screaming for help was the guy on the ground (who we know was Zimmerman) while the other guy was on top of him (who we know was Martin).
What was happening at the moment the gun was fired is really not important. The fact remains that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation. You cant go and start a fight and then when its not going your way kill the person and claim self defense. You cant say you were standing your ground when you are the one who pursued the person.
R117 = classic projection.
No specifics or facts...just personal attacks...designed to distract. Because the truth does not serve you. It only caps you.
GZ was told not to follow, but he did anyway. We know that because Trayvon was killed behind his destination and nowhere near GZ's truck.
GZ didn't live in that vicinity. He had no business being behind Trayvon's townhouse. GZs own townhouse was on the other end of the neighborhood.
Please list the evidence that supports GZs story. I'm waiting. :)
all the junkies i have ever known always had coke cola and sweets . it has already been proven that the tapes from the 911 calls were altered , this young thug wasnt even wanted at his moms house , school didnt want him because he was bad news every where he went he was trouble.
now the parents wont be burdened with his troublemaking. had he just been shot by another black it wouldnt have been a blip on the news maybe not even make the local news in florida
[quote] What was happening at the moment the gun was fired is really not important
R119 course it is important. It's clear by your post that you don't seem to understand self-defense at all. Go read some more at an independent site and then come back and argue.
You also have no facts to back up your belief that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation.
Just one of the many questions that needs to be answered - why was Martin still up by the top of the T after all that time when the confrontation occurred.
Some idiot keeps insisting incorrectly that Martin was near his father's home at the time of the confrontation when he was nowhere near it. He was however near the top of the T which is where everything happened which means he stayed right up there instead of going on home.
That gives the defense the opening to argue that since Martin obviously didn't proceed home that he was still loitering around houses not his and that Martin was not afraid of Zimmerman and that Martin stayed up by Zimmerman so Martin could confront Zimmerman.
[quote]You also have no facts to back up your belief that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation.
Zimmerman chased him down and confronted him. Had Zimmerman stayed where he was none of this would have happened. By pursuing him and confronting him, he initiated the confrontation. Trayvon was trying to get home. Zimmerman was trying to get to Trayvon. That is a fact and no matter how hard you try to make it otherwise, the facts remain the same.
[quote]Some idiot keeps insisting incorrectly that Martin was near his father's home at the time of the confrontation when he was nowhere near it.
[quote]You also have no facts to back up your belief that Zimmerman initiated the confrontation.
The prosecution has an ear witness who heard "the old man" confront the kid with "what are you doing around here?" to which Trayvon responded, "why are you following me?"
A couple minutes later, after the death scream stopped suddenly upon the gun fire, GZ had a little scratch on his nose, and TM had a bullet explode in his chest.
[quote] why was Martin still up by the top of the T after all that time when the confrontation occurred.
r122, attached is a link to the crime scene photo with TM's corpse covered by a yellow sheet.
He died behind his townhouse....nowhere near the T. Nowhere near the road.
Nowhere near GZ's vehicle.
Not even on the sidewalk.
Basically, everything the defense has been feeding the media for the past year and a half is total BS.
Once people filter the misinformation from the truth, it will crystal clear that GZ is guilty as sin.
R124, that map shows clearly that Martin was way up at the top of the T near where Zimmerman's car was parked and far from his dad's home which is at the bottom of the T -tho the T is reversed in this map.
Zimmerman's home location is irrelevant to the incident.
[quote]why was Martin still up by the top of the T after all that time when the confrontation occurred.
Witness tell a different story.
[quote]Ms. Lamilla said she saw Mr. Zimmerman on top with his knees straddling Trayvon. Ms. Cutcher went inside to call 911 and returned to find Mr. Zimmerman pacing.
r127, the map clearly shows that Trayvon Martin was killed 40 feet from the road.
R126, you are mistaken. The body was behind the townhouses near the top of the T.
Martin's father's house is way at the bottom of the T. That is not the backyard of Martin's father's home.
[quote]Zimmerman's home location is irrelevant to the incident.
No, it isn't. He had no business being behind TM's townhouse.
GZ was there only because he followed TM there.
Dispatch instructed him not to follow the kid.
Neighborhood Watch prohibits their "captains" from following people, and from carrying weapons.
The vigilante wanna be cop doesn't think rules apply to HIM.