- Oh fuck off OP.
- Go Obama!
- He's nobody's hero. He's an asshole who needs to shut his big, fat, flapping mouth.
- R3 wins.
- I hope he's killed soon. He's a traitor and anyone who supports him is a twitter.
- I still can't believe a high school drop-out who started out as a security guard has access to senior classified info. That's the real scandal.
- It's the MOLE what stole them secrets, I *swear*!
- He is a hero and is not in China's pocket.
R6: Elitist fuckwad.
- Like fuck he is not in China's pocket. If Hong Kong tried to extradite, China can and will intervene. He will disappear real quick
- r8 I don't think you understand the repercussion of having so many people have access to top security. I forgot the exact stat, but high level security info can be accessed by low level employees in both the private and public sector. That should concern you. Regardless of whether you hate gov't or not, there are info that can not be leaked to the public. It's national security.
- He's only a hero to those who hate this country and her freedoms.
- Let me know when he reveals illegal activity.
So far he's a kid who's decided that his interpretation of the Constitution - his view of right and wrong - trump those of the Congress, the Department of Justice and those who oversee the national security apparatus.
There is no indication - none - to date that any of the NSA's activity is unlawful.
Whether they are unconstitutional or immoral...those are separate issues worthy of discussion.
But Snowden chose to bypass established lines of escalation and communication which were available to him.
He could have walked into Bernie Saunders' office or any one of a number of liberal or libertarians in Congress and said that he believes that these actions are unconstitutional. Go find those who voted against the Patriot Act.
But, no, he decided that the route which may have given him the most cover and brought the great chance of quick change.
He decided that the best approach was to go to steal documents and disclose classified information not just about the nature of these domestic activities (the actions which should concern us greatly) but our intelligence gathering abroad.
He draws no distinction between the forms of spycraft. From his perspective, it is all part and parcel of the same hypocrisy.
And the minute he began discussing/disclosing issues relating to America's activities with regard to foreign government including classified operations (hacking the Chinese) he drifted away from champion of privacy rights in the U.S., to someone who has committed a gross violation of U.S. law.
This is not complicated.
The only one involved in illegal activity to date is Snowden.
More will be revealed and in all likelihood it will focus more on America's non-domestic intelligence gathering and that is when people will quickly change their tune.
One inevitable result: anyone in their 20s and 30s now working for the NSA, CIA, etc. are about to endure hellish vetting procedures and serious intrusions into their own privacy which, of course, they agreed to when they signed up.
He completely fucked them over.
- And here come the neoliberal fucktards who are one step away from freepers. What a bunch of assholes. Snowden's a hero. Fuck all of you cowards and apologists.
- I'm with you, R13. Snowden is a hero until proven otherwise.
- He's no hero.
I can't even remotely grasp the idiocy of anyone who could possibly consider him a "hero" at this point in time.
- I hope he's caught and has to pay for what he's done. He's no hero and he's also ugly.
- You think any and all opposition to the federal government stripping away all our rights to privacy is idiocy, R15?
Fuck you. You are a piss-poor excuse for an American. Real Americans support Liberty and Freedom not tyranny under an ever-spying and eavesdropping surveillance society.
- Why do the "he's a hero" people never offer a reason for believing that?
- "Heroes" do not run away to hide in China.
"Heroes" do not claim they want to avoid a surveillance state by running away to hide in a surveillance state.
"Heroes" do not claim patriotism while shacking up with arguably THE global enemy of their own country.
"Heroes" do not reveal old information that pretty much everyone has known for years as if it were new and somehow worse now under Obama than it was under Bush.
- [quote]You think any and all opposition to the federal government stripping away all our rights to privacy is idiocy, [R15]?
Nice strawman argument there. I of course never said or implied any such thing.
So fuck YOU, moron. If you cannot grasp why this guy is no hero, you're an idiot. And it has nothing to do with the NSA, the Patriot Act, or anything else along those lines.
I'm sorry if YOU haven't been paying attention for the last decade, but I have. And this guy's story and motivations and actions don't have the ring of truth, let alone "heroism".
- Shoot him in the mole now!
- You're not a hero either, R19. You are a Benedict Arnold who would have licked the asshole of King George III had you been alive in America in 1776. Real freedom is too threatening for apologists for the Big Brother State like you.
- R20 I like the cut of your jib.
- [quote]You're not a hero either, [R19]. You are a Benedict Arnold who would have licked the asshole of King George III had you been alive in America in 1776.
Not even remotely true, you shrill little troll. Wow. Talk about leaping to conclusions.
For the record, I never claimed to be a hero, but the rest of that shit you pulled out of your ass is just laughable.
Nowhere have I ever in ANY way been an apologist for the Big Brother state.
Does it not occur to you that I can find the Patriot Act abhorrent and the NSA's data-collection without any significant over-sight, and out-sourcing our national security to for-profit corporations deeply troubling, without thinking this little weasel is a "hero"?
Perhaps you'd love to run to China too, so you can rim his nasty little hole? You seem more invested in HIM than you do in the actual news.
- Of course the Chinese and anyone else who's paying attention knew that the US and China were going tit-for-tat with hacking. I knew that and I'm a nobody who reads the paper. So is he incredibly naive to think that confirming common knowledge would cause a seismic change or is he now a bought Chinese agent who is helping to feed anti-America Chinese nationalism to distract the Chinese lower class from a stalling economy? Or both?
- No comment on Edward's modeling pictures?
- This is the sort of thing the enemies of a Free Country do.
"The head of the National Security Agency hinted Wednesday that logs of Americans' e-mails and Web-site visits may be secretly vacuumed up by the world's most powerful intelligence group......"
- When did R19 claim to be a hero?
That's a very strange post, R22.
- Why the hell wouldn't he run off? Would you want to be sent off to the middle east to be held and tortured without trial like Bradley Manning?
He hasn't revealed anything that is going to put our security in danger. That is what they're using to prosecute Manning and all he did was reveal war crimes.
- People who think this guy is not a hero have tiny balls.
We are always looking for people that can put easy money and cushy PEU jobs in spite of illegal spying.
Due process if a quaint 18th century notion, so don't worry that we are just doing a little, tiny, legal spying. Trust me, it won't ever be used... well unless somewhere down you do something like run a red light, or smoke some weed, or drive with a BAC of .0502.
I have embedded a link that R12 can see. Please call.
- R20...look at the straw man calling others straw men! This absolutely is about the government violating the privacy of American citizens. You're a cryto-fascist piece of shit.
- Oh and R20...here's the TRUTH.
If Snowden had revealed that George W Bush had authorized the NSA spying, YOU would be hailing him as a hero and don't even bother denying it, asshole.
But because it was neoliberal Obama doing it, suddenly Snowden's a fraud and a conspirator. You and your ilk are fucking hypocrites. You'd be right to denounce the Repukes for doing such things; but because the democrats are in on it, suddenly your ethics fly out the window. You are the epitome of neoliberalism...cowardly, hypocritical, phony, contradictory, and frankly every bit as evil as the republicans.
How I wish we could get the Dem party back from you spineless neolibs. You're FILTHY because you roll around in conservative muck when it suits you.
- R32, your reading comprehension is nil, and your logical reasoning skills are non-existent.
I said that acknowledging that this guy is no hero has NOTHING to do with the NSA or anything else. I can be against the violation of constitutional rights and privacy without thinking this moron is a hero.
Are you really this fucking stupid, R32?
[quote]cryto-fascist piece of shit
- Oh dear yourself, asshole. Do you know what "crypto-fascist"even means? It means an individual who admires fascism. Someone like you. A neoliberal asshole apologist.
- [quote]If Snowden had revealed that George W Bush had authorized the NSA spying, YOU would be hailing him as a hero and don't even bother denying it, asshole.
Besides, we all knew Bush was doing this. This is an OLD story. In fact, Bush was far worse than Obama has been. Technically, Obama hasn't broken any laws (which is in itself a scandal), but Bush DID.
[quote]But because it was neoliberal Obama doing it, suddenly Snowden's a fraud and a conspirator.
Nope. Never said or implied that. I said he wasn't a hero.
[quote]You and your ilk are fucking hypocrites.
I'm not, but you ARE an irrational moron who loves leaping to conclusions and shoving words into other people's mouths just so you can sit in superior judgment of them. You see the world in black and white, in spite of all the shades of gray.
[quote]You'd be right to denounce the Repukes for doing such things; but because the democrats are in on it, suddenly your ethics fly out the window.
Example A. Where did I ever defend Democrats or Obama? Please. I said nothing more and nothing less than this guy is NOT A HERO.
You draw all sorts of wild-ass, unfounded, and wrong conclusions from that statement in spite of the fact that that statement doesn't lead anywhere near them.
[quote]You are the epitome of neoliberalism...cowardly, hypocritical, phony, contradictory, and frankly every bit as evil as the republicans.
And you're the epitome of a mindless basher looking to bash anyone and anything with your extremist views... that anyone who disagrees with you on one thing MUST apparently disagree with you everywhere else. You equate two things that have nothing to do with each other ("anyone who doesn't think this guy is a hero supports NSA spying and hates the Constitution!"). You're just a common, small minded moron.
[quote]How I wish we could get the Dem party back from you spineless neolibs.
And I wish we could get the political discussion back from you arrogant reactionary jerks and overly-emo concern trolls.
- R19...are you THAT fucking stupid? WHy would he run to China? Two words...Bradley Manning. The Obama administration is the record holder for prosecuting whistle blowers, even drumming up antiquated laws to get people indicted on charges. All because of embarrassment. Of course he's going to flee. You apparently have no idea what's going on.
- [quote]Do you know what "crypto-fascist"even means?
Why yes, I do. It's that weird "cryto" fascism that has me puzzled, you fucking moron who can't even read when it's pointed out to you.
[quote]It means an individual who admires fascism. Someone like you. A neoliberal asshole apologist.
I admire no such thing you fucking empty-headed moron, and am nothing of the sort. It's amazing how you can so confidently make claims about me (which are utterly and totally wrong), when you don't know jack shit about me. But you're right about everything, even things you have zero evidence for, aren't you, you arrogant twit?
- People are getting awfully defensive about their characterization of Snowden as a hero.
The next few weeks will be fun.
- R36...oh shut the fuck up. You're a hypocrite and a fraud. And full of bullshit. Anyone reading your posts can see that.
By the way...it's freepers who call liberals "reactionaries" creep. And also neolibs. Your right-wing is showing, dear.
- [quote]R19...are you THAT fucking stupid? WHy would he run to China? Two words...Bradley Manning.
Are you THAT fucking stupid, R37?
Jesus, why is reading comprehension so low among you idiots these days?
It's not about him running, you fucking moron. It's about the utter clueless hypocrisy of him running to CHINA. How fucking dense are you?
He might as well have exposed a secret communist underground and then fled to china to avoid it. Going to CHINA, this nation's closest thing to a national enemy/opponent, and one of the biggest "surveillance societies" out there, to protest domestic surveillance and proclaim his "patriotism" is just ridiculous.
And if you can't grasp something so obvious and simple, you should probably just stop posting, talking, and even pretending to have an informed opinion about anything.
- R38...oh god...I dropped a letter out of the word.
You're pretty simple if you couldn't tell what I meant there. Moron.
Honey, I'm reading your posts now. I can see who you are. It's quite apparent.
- R39....you really don't get it do you? Simpleton.
- [quote][R36]...oh shut the fuck up. You're a hypocrite and a fraud. And full of bullshit. Anyone reading your posts can see that.
Now you're just projecting. I call you out on your stupidity and wrongness and bad assumptions and nonexistent logic and reasoning... they way you leap from me thinking this idiot isn't a hero to somehow being FOR all the things I'm against... and all you can do is come back with this? Please.
You're describing yourself, not me.
And I don't give a shit what idiot freepers call liberals and progressives like myself. Freepers and neocons engage in a lot of "projection" too.
I have no right-wing. I loathe Republicans, neocons, right-wing libertarians, and conservatives in general. You're attacking someone on your side, JUST because I'm not stupid enough to get down and try to rim this little jerk, thrusting my tongue so far up his ass I can taste his spleen, the way you apparently want to.
Stop being a moron. Your stupidity is showing.
- [quote]You're pretty simple if you couldn't tell what I meant there. Moron.
From the lack of intelligence and the grossly incorrect assumptions in most of your posts (and the fact you couldn't even spot the typo when pointed out to you, until it was pointed out to you AGAIN), it was pretty easy to assume you were just sorta fumbling through trying to sound smarter than you were, and might have actually thought it was spelled that way. Because that's how you come off when you accuse me of grossly incorrect things, all based off of ONE statement which has nothing to do with any of those other thing.
WILL YOU STOP BEING A FUCKING IDIOT? The rest of the adults here would certainly appreciate it. Thanks.
- R41...oh brother.
I'm not debating you, dear, you're far too ignorant. There's a reason he would run to China. He'd be extradited from virtually anywhere else and he knows what lies in store. They're going for a life sentence for Manning, and they'll get it. He'll be locked up for the rest of his life for embarrassing this administration.
Red scared much, dear? He can't be patriotic if he goes to China?
You're not a neolib. You're a freeper. I get it.
- " any of those other thing."
...any of those other things. Of course.
- [quote]I'm not debating you, dear, you're far too ignorant.
Your projecting again.
YOU don't "get" something, completely mis-interpret something, so *I'm* ignorant? Riiiight.
[quote]There's a reason he would run to China. He'd be extradited from virtually anywhere else and he knows what lies in store.
Well thanks for displaying your ignorance of our extradition treaties. I'll leave you to figure out exactly what that ignorance is. A little Google might educate you.
[quote]You're not a neolib. You're a freeper. I get it.
Not even close. What's it like to be so completely, so thoroughly wrong? It must suck.
- R44/45...LOL! Oh yeah, you sound like you loathe freepers and neocons. And neoliberals too!! Uh huh. Phony bullshit artist.
As for the adults, most adults who are not neoliberals or freepers are concerned about this, including many Dem politicians (but who, as the Times reports, are afraid of being seen as disloyal to the President if they speak out).
You stop being an idiot, dear. And if you're going to pretend to be a liberal Democrat, your act needs work. You're pretty transparent, freepy.
- R38 is the only one with a brain no this thread, except me. he thinks beyond party lines, seeing the bigger picture, which is the complete degradation of the best aspects of american values.
so what if bush started it. Your precious Obama is CONTINUING it.
- Oh an freeper...my last post, because I don't have time to waste with a freeper pretending to be a Democrat.
Snowden isn't heroic because he's perfect. He's heroic because he blew the whistle even though he could see that, if the government got their hands on him, there'd be serious repercussions including life in prison.
That takes guts.
Not like a ball-less piece of nonsense like you.
- it does take guts. snowden knew exactly what would happen, and still made the choice to expose. and you fools call him a traitor.
a traitor to what. to a illegal-war fighting, torturing, tax loopholes for the one percent America? isn't it tine that someone spoke up and tried to arrest the downward spiral?
- [quote]LOL! Oh yeah, you sound like you loathe freepers and neocons. And neoliberals too!! Uh huh. Phony bullshit artist.
Dude, how would you KNOW what I "sound" like? The ONLY thing I've stated, position-wise, in this thread, is that this kid isn't a hero. Other than that, I've said I'm against the spying and violation of Constitutional rights, and have been since we first found out about it (under Bush), and even before (I was against the Patriot Act from the beginning). Yet you seem to think I've said something the exact opposite of that somehow? You're clearly delusional.
Your love for Edward Snowden is clouding your reason and making you irrational, to the point that you viciously and senselessly attack someone who might actually agree with you on the ACTUAL ISSUES. But you don't care because all you want is for people to slobber over Edward Snowden's knob and proclaim how heroic he is. Even though he's no hero.
- R51, he didn't really blow the whistle on anything. You realize we knew all this already, right? The story broke in 2006? That there's very little new here?
Are you aware of the allegations he's been leaking documents to the Chinese as well?
Probably not, or you don't care, or you just knee-jerk dismiss them because god forbid your "hero" be besmirched.
But whatever. It's just so laughable that you think I'm anything but a liberal progressive. I've always known that Obama was at best a slightly right-of-center moderate. Much like Bill Clinton before him. But hey, you want to call me a freeper... in spite of zero evidence for it, and a shit-ton of evidence against it (it's there if you want to look, but you don't, it'd spoil your "narrative" here, and worse, you'd have to admit you were wrong (gasp! the horrors! that can't EVER happen can it?)
- [quote]it does take guts. snowden knew exactly what would happen, and still made the choice to expose. and you fools call him a traitor.
I never called him a traitor (that remains to be seen). I merely said he wasn't a hero.
Why is that concept so deeply offensive to you?
People don't seem to know what the fuck a 'hero' is any more, and call every fucking idiot under the sun a hero. The word has fucking lost its meaning.
- [quote]Jesus, why is reading comprehension so low among you idiots these days?
Our reading comprehension is fine, thank you very much.
It is just so much fun to torture you.
- [quote]Our reading comprehension is fine, thank you very much.
Clearly it's not.
[quote]It is just so much fun to torture you.
Then you're failing, because I'm not in any way being tortured. Unless laughing at you morons counts as 'torture' in your little world.
- as to the poster who's avoiding the big picture by obsessing about Snowden's choice of China. well, gues what?
he won't get treated like a typical whisteblower by Uncle Sam, even though he deserves to be. He'll get treated like Manning, who showed the world Americans gunning down hapless citizens like carnival targets.
he'll get China-style justic in the USA. so what the fuck does it matter if he hides in enemy territory?
- R58, you completely lack a sense of irony or humor, don't you?
- you're way off based, R59. this is a serious issue. it's something people should think about.
what's your IQ, anyway? I know what mine is, and I'm comfortable expressing my views. My self-esteem isn't dependent on your virtual approval.irony and humor weren't called for here.
when you start hurling around personal insults in a debate, you're losing. FYI ;)
- He's not MY hero.
- Well let's see. 1) there is irony here (not wanting to live in a surveillance state with no freedom or human rights, so flees to CHINA, which has FAR worse records on both), and 2) People started calling me names first, and 3) I'd wager my IQ is north of yours, not that IQs mean all that much, and 4) humor is ALWAYS called for; it's how most people deal with "heavy" issues. That you don't know this is one of the reasons I'm assuming my IQ is north of yours.
Whatever. Going to bed now.
- R63, he is throwing himself on the mercy of the world because he wants the rest of us here in the USA to have some of our privacy rights restored to us. He isn't going to China because he would like to live there. He is sacrificing himself for the greater good of the American citizenry. If he is for real, a great many Americans will view what he did as a heroic act.
- He was never a hero per se, but he seemed to posess the qualities of a true whistle-blower with a conscience.
Now he's in a situation where he's colluding with foreign governments to pass along state secrets. That's treason, and my sympathy for him and his family has completely subsided.
- Fair enough, R64. If he is a full-blown traitor then he is on his own.
- R62 Yes, he comes across as a cunt precisely because he goes to a repressive and authoritarian regime like China.If a whistle blower was caught in China doing what he has done, he would be savaged in their Communist controlled media. In addition, he wouldn't get a fair trial either.
- He may be a hero to some, but the moment he went outside the USA and started blabbing and alluding to classified National Security info to foreign press and governments, he became a traitor to me. No sympathy here for either his plight or future. He's a very stupid, naive child-man with no plan...has a big mouth for all our frienemies...but no plan....which is very telling as far as his intellect goes. He's a tool, a prancing dancing fool.
- Also, a hero would never flee under the cover of darkness and leave his girlfriend and family unprepared for future events. Their lives are being made a living hell while he's playing a game far outside his skill level.
- wow, way too much koolaid at this party.
nebulous collusion charges and personal attacks, typical state reaction
- Fuck you, R69! How would you like it if the US were to resemble Iraq, where daily terrorist attacks have become commonplace and EVERYONE has a friend or relative who was brutally murdered by a religious extremist? The fact of the matter is, even Israel, which is considered the gold standard for counterterrorism efforts relies on similar tactics.
- He is putting all of us in serious danger. I should thank him for that?
- OK, R5, here is the definition of treason from the U.S. constitution:
"“Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort.”
Now, how do Snowden's actions fit that definition?
- R71 How so?
- No, I can't see this asshole in cuffs fast enough. He has REALLY fucked us all over.
- R72, it's a bit more complex than that - or do you run your entire life by a one line sentence. "Put food in mouth, swallow." Well, that must take care of the whole thing, then.
- Spilling natonal security secrets which might aid and abet our enemies is most certainly treason and many fave been tried in kind.
- It seems people find their principles very selectively.
- R75, what you wrote makes no sense. It's also a false equivalency.
Go home to Freeperland.
- "Now he's in a situation where he's colluding with foreign governments to pass along state secrets."
When are you going to realize that the people occupying the Congress and the White House ARE a foreign goverment??
Answer: When it's too late and they have control of every aspect of your life.
- Sympathy for Manning.
No sympathy for Snowden.
- If he hears a humming noise coming from above, it will be the last thing he ever hears.
- Send lawyers, guns, and money to get him out of this...
- Whether you believe Snowdon is a hero or not really depends on which type of American you are.
There is the type that like to be submissive and dominated, told what to think and do. What music to like, what clothes to buy, etc. etc. They are like the parakeet in the cage, who when the door is open, refuses to fly out and remains in the security of his captivity. These are the 54% of the people recently polled who have no problem with the government having access to their Emails, texts, and phone calls.
The opposite type values freedom, courage, and independence. They question authority and will stand up against bullies. This is the group that founded this country, but unfortunately they are dwindling in numbers.
We are becoming a nation of caged parakeets. Snowdon showed you the door, and we are biting his finger off.
- Tired of the famewhore internet smash and grabbers kicking over the hornets' nest, then crying when they get stung. Manning, Assange and now Snowden. Get lost all of you.
- Blah blah blah. Not heroes, but not evil traitors either. The USA national security state needs to be wiped clean and start over. It's gone too long without effective oversight. Generations, in fact. There are family dynasties in the intelligence world which have been fucking around with us for decades with no consequences.
And yes, with foreign countries too.
- OP is asking a legitimate question. I never saw him as a hero, just as a necessity these days. But the news I heard yesterday about his exposing the US cyber activities regarding China really made me question what he's thinking. Or not thinking. I'm not a conspiracy theorist on this, but it makes me think he's trying to stupidly bargain to be safe, doing things that potentially turns him into a traitor.
- I agree, R86.
And in a country where human rights violations are some of the worst in the world.
- [quote]Whether you believe Snowdon is a hero or not really depends on which type of American you are.
Only in your overly simplistic, black-and-white thinking, R83. Intelligent people, with IQs significantly above body temperature, can appreciate more nuance and shades of gray than you apparently can.
- [quote]When are you going to realize that the people occupying the Congress and the White House ARE a foreign goverment??
Oh good lord.
- " How would you like it if the US were to resemble Iraq, where daily terrorist attacks have become commonplace and EVERYONE has a friend or relative who was brutally murdered by a religious extremist? "
Actually, most murders and terrorist attacks in Iraq are done by the US government.
You think everything you read on CNN.com as gospel right?
- I don't think anyone considers him a "hero", OP. I sure don't. But he should not be prosecuted.
The Obama administration must have some skeletons in the closet and he wants to keep them from getting out. And his "fans" are on his side no matter what.
- R91, go to Twitter. Go online. People do think he's a hero.
- I never have understood the need for modern people (even children) to anoint, proclaim, and honor "heroes." Perhaps "need" is too strong a word. Strong desire, then.
It seems so exhausting and futile, this "hero" thing. Heroes apparently must be defended against those who disagree with the appellation. Why?
Is it so wrong to simply admire people anymore? Or admire certain actions of a person? And have it be OK for others to NOT admire said person?
Look, I admire Huey P. Long, believe the beneficial things he did far outweigh the detrimental things. Still, I do freely, fully acknowledge those harmful things he did. And though I feel strongly about it, I don't argue with those who detest him.
Seriously, folks, it's entirely OK to believe the US government's policies are 100% wrong, AND that neither Manning nor Snowden is a hero.
Nor Roosevelt, or Churchill, or George Washington, or Henri-Quatre, or Tippi Hedren ....
- You can tell Ed Snowden thinks he's really hot shit.
- If he had said that in 2006, maybe he would have been my hero. Now, it's just politics.
- R94, very true.
- I wish I had known years ago that you could be a high school dropout and go to work for the government, making nearly $200k a year before age 30. My entire career path would have been a lot differnent.
- I find it surprising that people find his revelations surprising. A college roommate's fiance was recruited by the NSA during college and as far as I know he went to work for them in the D.C. area. At the time (this was over 25 years ago) I had never heard of the NSA. Bill discussed the agency in general terms, but the one thing that he did say is that they had the ability to and often did eavesdrop on the telephone communications U.S. citizens had with nationals in other countries. I was shocked then, but no longer. It stands to reason that what they did with phone lines then is extended to any electronic communication. It seems naive that folks are shocked and outraged.
- He lost my sympathy when he didn't look very hot in those shirtless pictures with his girlfriend. Now I don't really care what happens to him.
- Why did he choose Hong Kong? Is he so uneducated that he believes China is a stalwart of human rights that treats its citizens with dignity and affords them privacy, free speech, and the right to political dissent? Does he think he's not going to get interrogated heavily if he hits the mainland? Or does he really believe he's creating leverage by involving the Chinese? Of course, they knew we spy on them and try to hack their IT systems. Duh! I wonder how truly valuable he can be to them. The Chinese do too and they're going to run him through the wringer if they get a chance.
He could have gone to a country that won't extradite. Ecuador's bent over backwards to protect Julian Assange at their London embassy.
Bottom line: He doesn't sound terribly bright.
- R98 yes I don't think what he said is news to anyone. All these hacking things are like porn. Everybody watches it but we do not talk about it. That's why it usually is not a good idea to attack someone over watching porn.
I don't care. He's the topic du jour.
He's a name in the news that will soon go away, destined to be a footnote in history.
- I like his name, his face, his unbuttoned shirt collar, and that he seems to be unusually articulate for an American. And I do like a bad boy who breaks the rules. However, I just don't think he's a good object of long-term hero worship so... nope.
- [quote]He lost my sympathy when he didn't look very hot in those shirtless pictures with his girlfriend. Now I don't really care what happens to him.
How superficial of you!
- "Snowdon showed you the door, and we are biting his finger off."
Oh, what horseshit. He didn't show anybody anything except that he's an ass who doesn't know how to keep his mouth shut.
I wonder exactly what's wrong with him, because something definitely is. In interviews he seems more like a robot than a human being, speaking in a monotone, lacking in affect. He seems to think a lot of himself; he probably has narcissistic personaliity disorder. Make no mistake about it; this is all about HIM.
Did he ever give a single thought about how his actions are going to affect his family? Or the security of the U.S.? I don't think so. He seems like a very cold, emotionaless bastard.
Those "modeling" photos are pretty funny. He looks like a very ordinary, skinny, pale geek. That he considered himself model material is also evidence that he thinks he's really something special. What a dork!
- [quote]Those "modeling" photos are pretty funny. He looks like a very ordinary, skinny, pale geek. That he considered himself model material is also evidence that he thinks he's really something special.
- There's something so douchey about Snowden. Like the kind of tech snob who would judge you by the type of cell phone you have, and give a derisive snort and condescending chuckle when you say that you think Windows 8 is a piece of shit.
- [quote]and give a derisive snort and condescending chuckle when you say that you think Windows 8 is a piece of shit.
OMG, we all know shitheads like that.
I've learned to stay off that whole fucking subject in public.
[quote]the kind of tech snob who would judge you by the type of cell phone you have
Those kinds of people make me cry into my pillow at night.
- At first, I thought he did a good thing. But now I have a problem with him taking refuge in Hong Kong and turning to the Communist Chinese for help. Something very fishy about that. The timing is interesting, too, coinciding with the US/Chinese talks about cyber-spying.
My initial impression could have been wrong. He might be a traitor.
- U.S. Senator John McCain called for the invasion of Hong Kong today in response to recent leaks about secret surveillance programs.
In an interview with BBC World News, the hawkish Republican said that by hosting the leaker, Edward Snowden, Hong Kong has proven itself to be an enemy of the United States.
"Either you're with us or you're against us," McCain explained to anchor Freddie Lyon, "and clearly the nation of Hong Kong is against us. By harboring this known cybercriminal they pose a clear and present danger to the American people.
"I don't want to hear about extradition or rendition or any of that nonsense. This man is a traitor and if we don't get him within 24 hours I say we need to start bombing the hell out of Hong Kong.
"Luckily this is a tiny country with no real military to speak of. I don't expect any resistance. We could probably destroy their infrastructure and occupy the entire country by the end of the week."
- Someone should remind McCain that we went into Afghanistan on the pretext of getting Bin Laden, so now that he's dead it must be time for us to leave there.
Unless of course we went in there for the opium crop and to build an oil pipeline from the Caspian Sea to the Far East.
- For the last time, The Daily Currant is (unfunny) satire.
- He's a conceited little pipsqueak. I think he did what he did to be famous; I don't think he gives a shit about the rights of other.
This is from the NY Times, and is futher proof that Snowden is quite full of himself:
From Mr. Snowden’s friends and his own voluminous Web postings emerges a portrait of a talented young man who did not finish high school but bragged online that employers “fight over me.”
“Great minds do not need a university to make them any more credible: they get what they need and quietly blaze their trails into history,” he wrote online at age 20.
- Somebody please remind McCain that invading this "tiny country with no real military to speak of" actually means invading China.
Is he really that fucking stupid?
- R112 said it best, R114.
- Snowden is a narcissist. He lied about his salary! Snowden's trying to persuade a nation, the world even and he lies about some non-essential piece of personal information? He obviously did it to make himself look more important. The man is a real tool bag.
Snowden is a man of questionable character.
- So whom did he sleep with to get this job?
- R110 that is a satire site, difficult as it is nowadays to separate satire from the news.
- He said he didn't report the problem during the Bush term, because he believed Obama would change things.
I don't think Obama has the power to change this government but the press and all those who know the truth should speak up. It will be just one war after another for our country unless we out the CIA, NSA and our Industrial Military Complex. Those who are guilty of robbing our country and making war for no reason...those people should be in prison.
- Ken Jennings on Twitter: "Edward Snowden is a real American. Just look at his fascination with celebrity."
- At this point, I just want the truth to come out but mostly, I want the truth about the Bush Administration to come out.
- [quote]Did he ever give a single thought about how his actions are going to affect his family? Or the security of the U.S.? I don't think so. He seems like a very cold, emotionaless bastard.
He's a typical, new-millennial American baby-man screaming out for attention and approval. He's a loser who wants to be seen as some sort of rogue hero.
- [quote]Fuck you. You are a piss-poor excuse for an American. Real Americans support Liberty and Freedom not tyranny under an ever-spying and eavesdropping surveillance society.
Dude your on Datalounge remember?
- He voted for Ron Paul.
- If he voted for Ron Paul, why did he say he had faith in Obama? Ron Paul is a damn idiot...something doesn't feel right about his whole story. How could an intelligent individual vote for Ron Paul?
- His Q&A on the Guardian today was pretty fucking heroic:
[quote]...it's important to bear in mind I'm being called a traitor by men like former Vice President Dick Cheney. This is a man who gave us the warrantless wiretapping scheme as a kind of atrocity warm-up on the way to deceitfully engineering a conflict that has killed over 4,400 and maimed nearly 32,000 Americans, as well as leaving over 100,000 Iraqis dead. Being called a traitor by Dick Cheney is the highest honor you can give an American, and the more panicked talk we hear from people like him, Feinstein, and King, the better off we all are. If they had taught a class on how to be the kind of citizen Dick Cheney worries about, I would have finished high school.
- Is Glenn Greenwald hoping to sleep with him?
- he's a self-aggrandizing libertarian dolt.
- He called Dick Cheney on his shit...no matter what you can say about Dick Cheney, the menace and evil that is Dick, can never be fully explained. Might as well talk about Hitler.
- op, do you still stand by your stance now that these new revelations have emerged about the spying on the Summit leaders?
Or are we now to believe Angela Merkel and the other G0 leaders are a terror threat?
- He's a traitor. And a fame whore.
- I have mixed feelings on Snowden, currently leaning towards self-aggrandizing blowhard. While I do think these NSA programs are overreaching and disturbing, I also don't think they're going away. Too many corporate fingers in the pie (and that's the bigger problem, in my opinion).
Is Snowden naive enough to think his actions will effect some change?
- Corporations are running our government and that truth needs to be exposed to all Americans.
- Edward Snowden is a self-aggrandizing asshole and a criminal. Any doubt I had about his character disappeared with the revelations about the U.S. spying on other countries at conferences. If Snowden was opposed to spying, what the fuck was he doing working for the NSA and then Booz Allen? Fuck him! At this point, his goal seems to be embarrassing the United States. We're supposed to be shocked, shocked! that the U.S. spies on other countries. Sweet fucking Christ. That's what countries do. That's what spy agencies do. That's been the way of the world for millenia. I now hope the U.S. captures him, throws him in a hole, and presses every criminal charge it can think of.
- [quote]Corporations are running our government and that truth needs to be exposed to all Americans.
If this is the type of stuff Snowden is "exposing", then he's a little slow on the upkeep. No wonder he never graduated high school.
- [quote] "a little slow on the upkeep"
Did YOU graduate high school, R136?
- Hero? Absolutely not.
Because of his stupidity, some terrorist organizations already changed their ways of communication, which, makes gather intelligence more difficult.
He just wasted billions of your and my tax dollars because the leak rendered some of the projects moot points now.
If anyone is still clutching on the idea of "total privacy", he/she is either out of touch of reality or simply delusional. Privacy is a luxury, we as a nation, can no longer afford.
It is a matter of the illusion of privacy or people die in terror attacks. That is clear and simple.
- It makes sense now-
The "Snowden is a traitor" poster (who has posted so much this thread is piss yellow) is the same one who thinks libertarians are evil.
Only a fool sucking the cock of the government could be twisted enough to see him as a villain.
I've been telling people here that the USGov was snooping on every site, every call, every email for years and got called a paranoid conspiracy theorist.
At least now I have proof.
- Of course he is.
That's gold. Cheney is evil, and I love his characterization. I thought is was impossible to love this man any more, but that makes me want to fly to Hong Kong and be his bodyguard. I think I love him more than GGreenwald.
I think that this is a "litmus test" for libertarians- if you think he's a hero, you're a libertarian and if not you're a fascist/socialist/ communist. There's really no middle ground.
All this talk of a "third way" is bullshit- either you believe people are free, or you don't. I can see that many budding libertarians are posting on this thread, and the F/S/C neonazis are scared that people are waking up to the crimes of their messiah Obama.
- Young people LOVE him
- He's hot. I'd lick his shitter.
- [quote]His Q&A on the Guardian today was pretty fucking heroic:
[quote]...it's important to bear in mind I'm being called a traitor by men like former Vice President Dick Cheney. This is a man who gave us the warrantless wiretapping scheme as a kind of atrocity warm-up on the way to deceitfully engineering a conflict that has killed over 4,400 and maimed nearly 32,000 Americans, as well as leaving over 100,000 Iraqis dead. Being called a traitor by Dick Cheney is the highest honor you can give an American, and the more panicked talk we hear from people like him, Feinstein, and King, the better off we all are. If they had taught a class on how to be the kind of citizen Dick Cheney worries about, I would have finished high school.
You do realize that these were talking points prepared in advanced which were copied and pasted into his chat, right?
He's checking all the boxes.
There is something very, very wrong with this story.
He's reading off a script and the question is who is writing it.
I sm no fan of Naomi Wolf. Think these a crackpot most of the time.
But in this case, I think she has something...
- "Young people LOVE him"
I don't think "young people" even know who he is. And if they did know, they wouldn't care.
"He's hot. I'd lick his shitter."
You must be desperate to lick somebody's shitter, because no way in hell is Snowden "hot." He looks pale and plain and sickly. He is the absolute stereotype of a pathetic geek who craves attention. That's the reasoning behind this whole thing: he wanted to be famous and decided that betraying national secrets would be the way to achieve that aim.
- There was an interesting piece on him in the Washington Post. It seems that Snowden was such a nonentity that most people who came in contact with him don't him at all; the principal and teachers who taught his favorite subjects don't remember him, classmates racked their memories trying to recall him and came up empty. He was, despite his intelligence, a big nothing of a person who nonetheless considered himself superior to most people.
He was, of course, really into computer games and online chatting, as all socially isolated geeks are. According to the Post: "his fascination with games continued even as he rose to more responsible positions. “I woke this morning with a new name,” he announced excitedly in 2010, referring to his gaming avatar. “That name is Wolfking. Wolfking Awesomefox." "WOLFKING AWESOMEFOX?"
The Post also said that despite Snowden's attempts to keep his "online activities hidden" he "also craved the limelight. Even a decade ago, while debating a fine point of Internet structure, Snowden celebrated the response to one of his posts: “256 page views make me smile.” He explored becoming a male model, having a portrait photographer shoot him in alluring poses on a wooden bridge. And when he went public as the leaker, he did so on video, offering an assured, even cocky, argument for the acts that drove him to hide halfway around the world from the government of the country he claimed to love."
The article pretty much exposes Snowden as the detestable fuckwad that he is. The article ends with these paragraphs that further reveal the inner workings of the little shitheel:
"Snowden now presents himself as a reasoned protester, a conscientious objector of sorts, but he has also shown flashes of anger and even contempt for some aspects of American society. “Go back to your meaningless consumerist life,” he wrote four years ago in a comment on a YouTube video that poked fun at the ritual of high school reunions.
He was no ascetic, though. He boasted online about relations with his girlfriend, noting at one point: “You have not lived until you’ve rolled over to post-coital Krispy Kremes. That’s what being an American is all about.”
- Why is there no thread about the death of Michael Hastings?
- I don't know who Michael Hastings is. Should I?
- Was it a two car accident? With all the airbags we have now, along with seat belts, how do you die in a car accident, unless you have an old car? I'm just curious.
- Loving the character assassination at R147. Like his popularity, gaming activities, sex bragging, ill-advised modeling shots, online identity and complexion are what is important here. He exposed a totalitarian, unelected, predatory and fascist spying network and you hissss about his "need for fame".
- Now I am confused. Is he:
A lone, brave hero protecting freedom?
A spy for China?
A trick to keep the masses obedient (see Naomi Wolf link at R144?
- Hastings writes a lot about the military.
His Rolling Stone article cost General McChrystal his job. He's also written extensively about Petreaus and the war in Iraq.
He wrote several books incl: "The Operators: The Wild and Terrifying Inside story of America's War in Afghanistan."
Had A LOT of inside info and sources within the military and Intelligence community.
- That had to be from an explosive, right, R152?
- Car accident, R154.
- What KIND of car accident, R155
- Here is a list of countries who do not have extradition treaties with the US.
Bhutan, Botswana, Brunei, Burkina Faso, Burundi,
Cambodia, Cameroon, Canada (Canada maintains an extradition treaty with the caveat that any persons extradited will not be subject to the death penalty. The Conservative government under Stephen Harper reversed this position, but the Supreme Court of Canada has placed this reversal in a state of legal uncertainty.), Cape Verde,
Central African Republic, Chad, China, Comoros,
Djibouti, Equatorial Guinea, Ethiopia, Gabon, Guinea, Guinea Bissau, Indonesia, Iran, Ivory Coast, Jordan, Kuwait, Laos, Lebanon, Libya, Madagascar, Mali, Maldives, Mauritania, Mongolia, Morocco, Mozambique, Nepal, Niger, Oman, Qatar, Russia, Rwanda, Samoa, Sao Tome e Principe, Saudi Arabia, Senegal, Somalia, Sudan
Syria, Togo, Tunisia, Uganda, United Arab Emirates, Vanuatu, Vietnam, Yemen, Yemen South, Zaire.
I think there are a few they forgot - like Vatican City.
So why would this Snowden guy deliberately choose China instead of some other country? He had plenty of options.
Hero? The more he talks, the more he seems like a dumb famewhore who doesn't care about this country at all.
- Crossed a median, hit a tree and the car burst into flames. I don't know more than that.
- The WaPo and NYTimes are just the propaganda arms of the gov't and their hit pieces on Snowden are pathetic and obviously written at the behest of the NSA.
- r156 Reportedly a single-car accident very early this morning; I have a feeling it was this one:
- LaTi reports:
In an email sent hours before his death in a single-car L.A. crash, journalist Michael Hastings wrote that his “close friends and associates” were being interviewed by the FBI and he was going to “go off the radar for a bit.”
According to the email, sent to KTLA, Hastings wrote he was working on a “big story” and was going to disappear. He told his colleagues that if the FBI came to interview them, they should have legal counsel present.
The subject of the email was “FBI Investigation re: NSA.” Hastings sent the email to his colleagues just before 1 p.m. Monday.
The FBI has denied investigating Hastings.
- Suppose that during the Stalin regime in the USSR, Eduard Snowdenski was an analyst who worked for a bureau under the NKVD (People’s Commissariat of Internal Affairs). Suppose that he decided to reveal to the Russian people the extent of the NKVD domestic spying apparatus that peopled the Gulag, or Main Directorate for Corrective Labor Camps, with prisoners.
How should Snowdenski do this? Should he report through NKVD channels, or should he defect?
Do you regard Snowdenski as a traitor if he defects to America and reveals the extent of the Russian domestic spying program?
Is Snowdenski a hero?
What is your opinion of those in the Kremlin who demand Snowdenski's head?
If Snowdenski defected to America and the USSR charged him with espionage, would you consider the charge valid?
Should America extradite him to the USSR?
- LaTi reports: In an email sent hours before his death in a single-car L.A. crash, journalist Michael Hastings wrote that his “close friends and associates” were being interviewed by the FBI and he was going to “go off the radar for a bit.”
According to the email, sent to KTLA, Hastings wrote he was working on a “big story” and was going to disappear. He told his colleagues that if the FBI came to interview them, they should have legal counsel present.
- ...and there you have it, just another untimely accident.
- Snowden is looking better by the day to me. And it still irritates the hell out of me that James Clapper can lie to Congress under oath and no one bats an eyelash.
- Someone just like him probably killed Michael Hastings.
- Excerpt from Hastings-
I was standing outside the circle.
Dave came up to me. “You’re not going to fuck us, are you?”
I answered what I always answer: “I’m going to write a story; some of the stuff you’ll like, some of the stuff you probably won’t like.”
Jake came up to me. “We’ll hunt you down and kill you if we don’t like what you write,” he said. “C. will hunt you down and kill you.”
I looked at Jake. He had what I’d heard people in the military call retired colonel syndrome. A certain inferiority complex and bitterness about not rising to the rank of general.
“Well, I get death threats like that about once a year, so no worries.”
I wasn’t that disturbed by the claim. Whenever I’d been reporting around groups of dudes whose job it was to kill people, one of them would usually mention that they were going to kill me. I went outside to have a cigarette. Duncan joined me.
“How’s things, old chap?”
“Pretty good; this is really cool. By the way, Jake just threatened to kill me.”
Duncan’s face dropped. “What?”
“No, no worries, dude, I took it as a joke, and it’s not the first time.”
“He should not have said that,” Duncan said. “That’s not how to deal with the press.”
“You warned me; you said he was a dick.”
I could tell Duncan was pissed off by the development.
Back inside the bar, the toasts were still going on. McChrystal was standing outside the circle.
“It’s a great group of guys you’ve got. I mean, the team is very impressive,” I said.“
You see, they don’t care about Afghanistan,” he said.
I waited. They don’t care about Afghanistan? I didn’t think that was what he wanted to say, exactly, though it was true. It could be Iraq or Fiji or Canada. The country didn’t matter. The mission mattered.
“No, let me take that back. They care about Afghanistan. It’s each other. That’s what it’s about. All these men,” he told me, “I’d die for them. And they’d die for me.”
Jake staggered up to us.
“This is a dangerous man,” he said, pointing to me. “Watch what you say to him.”
- R162, if Mr. Snowdenski was "revealing" information that had been publicly known to the Russian people for seven years, we would have to look into his motivations for "revealing" it now and fleeing the country.
Look, I'm sure it would be great if you could find a hero to worship, since that's what you want. Unfortunately, Mr. Snowden is not an appropriate candidate for the position.
He's a punk-traitor who is only interested in famewhoring his way around the world. He "revealed" nothing we haven't known since halfway through Bush's second term.
There is nothing admirable about Ed Snowden.
- The Kardashian culture requires focusing on the person and not the issue, clearly.
Count me out.
- You mean "Snowdenov," right, Russian surname dolts?
Whistleblowers have said what Snowden PROVED for years and the media ignored it.
Ignorant cunts like you would justify child torture as long as the torturer had an Obama sticker on his car.
- Too bad he's straight. He's definitely earned a full body tongue bath from me, followed by as many blow jobs as he wanted.
- I agree, R172
I would give GGreenwald and ESnowden the night of their lives, head to toe, and back again.
It's almost funny to watch the vapid talking heads and moronic congresscritters calling him a traitor when it's obvious that he did this out of LOVE FOR HIS COUNTRY!!! They are the traitors.
I love the fact that Ron Paul is his idol.
I wish I was that brave.
Wait- by speaking out in his behalf, on a public forum where the NSA could easily trace me...well, it's not up to his level but at least I won't let them make me a coward. Fuck the NSA, fuck the CIA, fuck Bu$h, fuck 0bama, and fuck the Federal Reserve.
- Ron Paul is a lunatic, thank god he will never be elected President of the United States.
His son is another loon who will never be president.
I don't know who else is in the Paul family but they have my sympathy for having to deal with those two stupid, selfish, arrogant, total fucking assholes for all these years.
Snowdon - a Paulist ass-kisser of the very worst sort - shows his love for his country by "revealing" things we've known since 2006 and then fleeing to China where he is apparently on the Chinese payroll. What a hero! I don't know where he finds the time, what with all the famewhoring.
- op is sooooo tedious.
- "Consider the Lawrence case decided by the Supreme Court in June. The Court determined that Texas had no right to establish its own standards for private sexual conduct, because gay sodomy is somehow protected under the 14th amendment "right to privacy." Ridiculous as sodomy laws may be, there clearly is no right to privacy nor sodomy found anywhere in the Constitution." - Ron Paul
Ron Paul doesn't seem to believe in a right to privacy.
- He did what he felt he had to do at a time of pervasive youth unemployment R174. There are millions of Ed Snowdens out there. If you don't like it, well, you shouldn't have let the rich destroy all the jobs under the false flag of "Free trade" and "Capitalism." You should have let the US adopt a system of fake elections hiding a military dictatorship. YOU are to blame for this mess, not Snowden.
- So, 174-
Do you think Snowden should be executed?
If so, you prove Ron Paul right.
- "You should NOT have let the US adopt a system of fake elections hiding a military dictatorship"
is what the line should have said of course.
Yes, that does change the tone.
If you want freedom, peace, and mutual benefit- please google "Murray Rothbard" and "Ludwig Von Mises" or go to "lewrockwell.com" and see how peaceful trade (not crony capitalism aka fascism) benefits all humanity.
- [quote]Edward Snowden, who was expected to fly to Havana from Moscow Monday, did not board the flight, according to journalists on the airplane and airport officials, lending yet another twist to a convoluted flight from U.S. authories.
I'm sure the last thing he wants to do is board a plane full of journalists! lol.
- Maybe he's not ready to give up on all the hot, young Russian soldiers.
Probably, not the reason but a nice thought.
I've actually held my nose and watched the CBS or NBC 630 news a few times the last week.
The propagandistic tone is laughable.
The US government chastises Russia and China for putting whistleblowers in jail and in the next breath argues they should turn over Snowden.
Like Brad Manning, he would be held in solitary confinement, naked and starved, and then tried in a kangaroo court that would make Hitler blush.
- No whistle blower should ever be turned over to The United States Government. They would never be given a fair trial.
- "Loving the character assassination at R147"
He doesn't have any character to assassinate, you dumbfuck. The little bastard is running all over the world like a scared rabbit. He's willing to run his fat mouth, but he's not willing to suffer the consequences, heavens no! He's a cowardly little shit. I hope he gets thrown in jail. It's all he deserves.
- Lord, it's sick how many right wing nutcases like R185 continue to invade DL.
So you think that Bradley Manning has been treated fairly?
If so then FUCK YOU!
I hate nazi cunts like you.
I hope they put you in a cage.
- He's admitted in an interview with the South China Morning Post that he sought the job with Booz Allen to expose actions of the US government.
Sounds from the timeline that he was in touch with Greenwald beforehand.
So, not the innocent who discovered something that shocked him.
After fleeing, apparently was startled to hear that he could not just cruise around Hong Kong and might have to spend time in a jail cell with -- omigod! -- no computer.
Weird mix of calculating along with naive and dumb.
He's said repeatedly that he knew things were wrong 6 years ago but believed the bullshit propaganda Obama spewed, and "Hoped" that "Change" was around the corner.
Obama turned out to be worse than Bu$h.
When China, Russia, Cuba, and Venezuela are seen as free countries compared to the USSA then we need to look at alternatives.
Mass secession by western and southern states- anything west of the Mississippi River and south of DC- would stop DC from killing people worldwide and allow REAL freedom to flourish.
- "When China, Russia, Cuba, and Venezuela are seen as free countries compared to the USSA then we need to look at alternatives."
Except no one views these countries as more free than the US except in some sort of The Nation/Libertarian depraved symbiosis.
- he's NO Kevin Falk!
- It is fascinating to watch the tone on various message boards as people have realized that Snowden is not a great champion of American freedom.
But that he is just another petulant twenty-something who is anti-secrets.
Well, kiddo, bad news. The world is full of secrets. We've got secrets. They've got secrets.
We spy on them. They spy on us.
He's just naive enough to think that we're the only ones playing the game.
As for the domestic surveillance, it's getting lost now. Snowden is now talking mostly about what kind of intelligence we gather abroad.
He is moving the story away from its origin. People are not talking about the NSA very much in all this.
They are talking about Snowden, China, Hong Kong, Russia, Cuba and Ecuador. He has gone from hero to traitor in the minds of many, who now question his motives and, candidly, whether he's not a little unstable.
If you read the comments section in various blogs, HuffPo and even here, you see that sentiment has shifted away from him. His supporters are dwindling; the same people cheering for him also posts things about the New World Order and conspiracy theories.
And watch what happens when Greenwald admits that he encouraged Snowden to take the job and obtain the documents.
When his fellow journalists start to condemn him (just wait - it's coming), the real fun will start.
It looks like he wasn't just reporting. He was actively involved in the planning of these events.
Interest take in WaPo today...there will be more of this but from some very senior media figures.
Propagandistic is a word, dear.
1. The systematic propagation of a doctrine or cause or of information reflecting the views and interests of those advocating such a doctrine or cause.
2. Material disseminated by the advocates or opponents of a doctrine or cause: wartime propaganda.
3. Propaganda Roman Catholic Church A division of the Roman Curia that has authority in the matter of preaching the gospel, of establishing the Church in non-Christian countries, and of administering Church missions in territories where there is no properly organized hierarchy.
[Short for New Latin Sacra Congregti d Prpagand Fid, Sacred Congregation for Propagating the Faith (established 1622), from ablative feminine gerundive of Latin prpgre, to propagate; see propagate.]
I was tweaking the "dear" troll.
- Snowden won't be allowed to leave Russia until the FSB has gotten as much information as they can out of him. There's a reason why he wasn't on the first flight out to Cuba, and probably won't be on the second, or the third... Going to Russia was a really dumb move.
- I want him to come in my mouth.
- I want the bold to end. [/bold]
- I think we all do[/bold]
Surely someone knows how to do it?!
- Now it's like the Cold War all over again.
- Yes, R201, and the saddest part is that the Russians and Chinese are the heroes.
If Snowden gets shipped back to the US gulag (be it Guantanamo or Ft Bragg) then he will be convicted by a kangaroo court that would make Mao and Stalin blush.
Look at how they've treated our gay brother, Bradley Manning, and what a joke his trial has become.
These men are heroes, and I pray more of them come forward and expose the evil rot at the center of our government.
I wish our government schools used books like "The Gulag Archipelago" or "1984" or even used movies like "The Matrix" to explain how powerful governments always become tyrannical. Instead they just teach them that government is good, obedient slaves are rewarded and dissent is evil.
- Four years ago, Ed Snowden thought leakers should be ‘shot’
“Those people should be shot in the balls,” Snowden apparently said of leakers in a January 2009 chat. Snowden had logged into an Internet Relay Chat (IRC) server associated with Ars Technica. While Ars itself didn’t log the conversations, multiple participants in the discussions kept logs of the chats and provided them to the technology site.
He said he enjoyed “ethical reporting.” But “VIOLATING NATIONAL SECURITY? no. That s— is classified for a reason. It’s not because ‘oh we hope our citizens don’t find out.’ It’s because ‘this s— won’t work if iran knows what we’re doing.’”
- [quote]our gay brother, Bradley Manning
His sexual orientation is irrelevant.
- Perhaps, R204, but his patriotism and bravery makes him a hero.
- I'm sure Mr. Snowden isn't the same dumb fuck he started out as.
- I don't have to be a freeper to not like him.
- People are too invested in the original narrative.
That Edward Snowden appeared heroic and idealistic; he was viewed as a champion of freedom.
And, then, well then it turned out that what he uncovered wasn't even unlawful. There was appropriate moral outrage but nothing illegal.
The original story is all but dead.
It's the Snowden Show now. Hong Kong, Moscow...
He's made the story about him.
He has done us all a great disservice because his sideshow eclipsed the main event. The momentum is gone.
The most important elements of this story are now lost.
- I still want him to come in my mouth.
- It just seems like every supposed scandal that the Republicans come up with...turn out to be nothing. Millions of dollars spent while they do nothing of any importance.
I pray for their deaths, every day.
- Oh, yeah, it was so patriotic of Snowden to let the Chinese download the contents of the four laptops he's carrying. What a guy.
- Link from independent, non-American source please, R213
- He can't do that, R214. They don't need to. They know more than he does.
The Chinese knew all of this, as did the Russians. Hell, any US citizen paying half attention knew the US Government was spying on us.
The key phrase is "TURNKEY TOTALITARIANISM" and it should scare the FUCK out of everyone.
- Of course we know our hateful and ridiculous government spies on us. They should be spying on White Supremacies, who knows what those crazy fuckers have planned?
- Why would you think the government is not spying on white supremacists, R216? I would be very surprised if they aren't close to the top of any watch list.
- Exactly, R217. The FBI has already mounted undercover operations with militia groups. New Yorker carried an account of one agent who was undercover with a militia in the northwest for a couple of years (can you imagine?)
- I can't imagine having to spend much time around those wackos, much less live among them. I also understand the FBI and other government agencies closely watch the survivalist groups in Idaho and surrounding parts. They infiltrated the Klan over 50 years ago. I doubt there's a supremacist group they're not watching.
We had a nasty hate crime a few years ago involving some local skinheads and the local police (never known for their sharpness) had some very quick information about them and their group. I figure the feds gave the locals some of the intel they had amassed on them.
- Don't understand why he is a hero. Singing his ass off to our enemies.
- Snowden is NOT a hero. In any way. He may have had some good motives but now it's clear he's got no sense of how much damage he's doing.
Think of it this way: if you heard about someone who Obama spoke out against, and was acclaimed in China and Russia, would you guess this was a hero?
- I agree with you, R221, but you need to leave Obama out of the equation. He's shown his support for the NSA trumps the privacy rights of the people he was elected to represent.
They infiltrate "liberal" groups too.
Does that bother you?
Damage? You mean revealing the fact that the government is spying on every email, every phone call, every Google search American citizens make!?!
Fuck you, you quisling cunt.
- Snowden is a hero for anyone and everyone who wants an excuse to bash the United States.
[quote]Snowden is a hero for anyone and everyone who wants an excuse to bash the United States.
That should read
[quote]Snowden is a hero for anyone and everyone who wants an excuse to bash the United States GOVERNMENT.
The people might be weak, marginally retarded and vain, but the problem is the US Government and Federal Reserve, not the people.
- Sure Snowden is such a hero-clearly anyone seeking refuge in countries such as Russia, China, Venezuela, Ecuador etc REALLY care about human rights. We know those countries never abuse citizens.
- It's a scary and saddening thing that I want the purified, self-important Edward Snowden to be witness to human rights abuses in all of the countries he seeks asylum from. He's a self-important cunt. Nothing less, nothing more.
- Why why why won't our President just say "Look, the Chinese had him. The Russians had him. They got it all, nothing they didn't already know. Why (the fuck) would we want him back just to feed the rest of his life? It's over."
- [quote]Sure Snowden is such a hero-clearly anyone seeking refuge in countries such as Russia, China, Venezuela, Ecuador etc REALLY care about human rights.
What is this bullshit? He wants to live, not be tortured and maybe have some freedom. WTF are his options? Which perfect country should he go to? Are you seriously criticizing him for unveiling the scandalous situation in HIS OWN country, the number one super power in the world, instead of randomly devoting his life to attacking fucking Ecuador for being backwards?
This thread is full of idiotic patriots. The guy is a hero, to anyone who cares about the truth and freedom. So not that many people, sure, but some.
- Patriot my ass r229. He's a traitor. A self-absorbed, histrionic traitor. You and he have no idea the damage that he's done to our foreign policy.
- If he's as vain and heroic as he makes himself out to be, he really should fall on his own sword rather than selling himself out to countries that fully embrace overt shitting on their own citizens.
FFS, at least we get some pretense here!
- R229 he did not limit leaks to just expose his OWN country. Hong Kong confiscated his 4 laptops and not to just play angry birds. He went to Moscow instead of straight to Ecuador, there is no way he entered & has remained there safely without giving up intel.
Greenwald stated he was responsible journalist because he did not print ALL of what Snowden knew because it would assist other nations in doing the same to their citizens. He implied Snowden felt the same. Evidence has shown it was projection on his part.
Now here he is globe trotting to country after country known for extreme civil rights violations to save his own life. Funny thing is NONE have yet shown to actually want to keep him in their country after they got what they wanted (China & Russia). We'll see how long Venezuala keeps him.
When Ecuador almost took him he thanked the president and it's people for standing up for principle. Obtuse to the steep price their citizens would pay if it disrupted their trade with the US (85%). What kind of narcissist would ask that of them? Believing that they would be so enamored with his actions for a US citizens ... but in truth they have bigger issues to deal with
- R230, the damage to your foreign policy has been done by your government, not Snowden. Its actions have now driven allies like EU member states closer to China's perceptions of the US, which is a pretty major fail.
- On the basis of what do you say that, r233? I'm European and think Snowden is a shitstain. No one here could care less about him, except for the unhinged lunatics who comment at The Guardian (which newspaper, in its efforts to "break into" the US, has become nothing more than a trashy, sensationalist tabloid).
- R233, the article below is an example of real spying, but no one pays any attention to this kind of thing, despite it being of real and serious damage. From a news item only a few days ago, yet no Snowden fans have bothered to mention it. And Snowden, the supposed anti-spy, went to Russia for asylum! Remember Anna Chapman?
German court convicts couple of spying for Russia
"A German court has convicted a married couple of spying for Russia for decades and has sentenced them to prison terms. The pair was arrested in October 2011 after leading a seemingly inconspicuous life in Germany.
"The Stuttgart Higher Regional Court on Tuesday sentenced a German-based couple to prison terms after finding them guilty of acting as Russian spy agents.
"Andreas Anschlag was sentenced to six and a half years in prison while his wife Heidrun Anschlag was sentenced to five and a half years in prison. Both had been living with forged Austrian passports – their true identities are only known to the court.
"According to prosecutors, the pair passed on hundreds of EU and NATO documents for decades, first at the behest of the Soviet Union and thereafter for its post-Soviet incarnation, the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service. They obtained the documents via their informant, a Dutch diplomat.
"In April, a Dutch court sentenced the informant to 12 years in prison for delivering confidential documents to the agents.
Arrested in October 2011, the couple had been posing as Austrian nationals of Latin American origin. Outwardly they led an unremarkable life in Meckenheim, Germany a small town of 24,000 inhabitants.
"When their trial opened in Stuttgart on January 15, 2013, federal prosecutors accused them of "secret agent activity" and of "forgery of documents.""
- R233 if the US Government damaged it's international relationship as badly as you claim (no denying there has been some fallout). And those disclosures were not in the interest ofprotecting the citizens of the US but to lobby favor of European countries that would be more desirable for him to live in.
France who has had no issues speaking out against the US was willing to ground tly president of another ally to assist the US in getting Snowden. And no other European country has stepped forward after the new disclosures were released to offer asylum.
Because the pragmatic reality on their part is that they would LOVE for the US to be brought down a peg or two but it's not in their interest to advocate its decline enough to favor China as a superpower. The European nations also rely on the military and intelligence power of the US. They share intelligence and its not practical for these smaller nations to invest the kind of money the US does. NSA intel helped stop a 2011 European attack by Al Queda.
Sure there should be boundries and rules set ... but they are not nihalists and grasp that even if you eliminate the NSA , the still need to counter cyber attacks from countries like China and Russia.
- Preach it, R232 R229 is a fool.
- [quote]Think of it this way: if you heard about someone who Obama spoke out against, and was acclaimed in China and Russia, would you guess this was a hero?
You're just upset that this happened while Obama was in the White House. If it was Bush, you'd be praising Snowden.
- [quote]Instead they just teach them that government is good, obedient slaves are rewarded and dissent is evil.
Let me help you.
- [quote]Singing his ass off to our enemies.
China and Russia are our enemies?
- [quote]This thread is full of idiotic patriots. The guy is a hero, to anyone who cares about the truth and freedom.
Idiotic patriots, indeed! WTF is that about? DL's demographic has really moved to the right as of late.
- R242 Got your directions a little mixed up there fella
- As far as the rest of the world is concerned, Obama is just as bad as Bush was. Snowden's revelations convinced them of that.
- Too true, R244
When China, Russia, Cuba, and Venezuela are better on human rights (in this case) than the USA...well, the concept of patriotism needs serious reflection.
I hope he can get to a country that will protect him so he can expose more of the atrocious and evil behavior of the US Government.
I love, love, LOVE my country, but I hate my government.
- Why stay in Russia? I would rather be in Caracas.
- I hate my government also. And I blame Republicans for my horrible government.
No, I can't move to another country.
- Let's review. Both Bushes and Clintons have accepted megabucks from China and Saudi Arabia, and the Republican GOP Senate leader is married to a Chinese woman whose dad was a close friend of the Chinese president and this woman, as Secretary of Labor, insulted American workers.
But Snowden is the traitor.
Well, carry on my dumb little snowflakes.
- [quote]When China, Russia, Cuba, and Venezuela are better on human rights (in this case) than the USA...well, the concept of patriotism needs serious reflection.
Well, could you please tell us these countries' histories of dealing with their own intelligence operatives who do the sorts of things that Edward Snowden has done? Tell us how their intelligence services and law enforcement handled them kindly and humanely. Examples, please.
Do you ever wonder how many political prisoners there are in those countries and how they are treated?
- [quote]But Snowden is the traitor.
Nah, he's a not-as-bright-as-he-thinks-he-is coder manipulated by a journalist out to make a name for himself. The material he revealed wasn't terribly sensitive and was already widely-known, right? Snowden's the snowflake in this scenario.
I doubt they were treated much worse than Brad Manning.
If Snowden is extradited to the US, he will be tortured the same way.
- [quote]I doubt they were treated much worse than Brad Manning.
Really? Please tell us about your time in Lubyanka. Or how you shared a prison cells with Oscar Elias Biscet and Wei Jingsheng.
- Let me get this straight ... Edward Snowden is a principled man who leaked the means of NSA to spy on its citizens, enemies, and allies.
He submit asylum requests from European countries like Germany & France ....and leaks about how the US is spying on them to ruffle feathers. But himself and his fangirls claim its just a disclosure to protect all citizens US and European.
When Germany and France don't want him he discloses today that both countries are in bed with the NSA. WTF , why wouldnt he disclose it in the beginning and not bother to seek refuge in those western european countries if their human rights violations are as agregious as the US.
More evidence that he is a self important idiot narcissist. He would sell out his alleged principles to live somewhere more comfortable. Praises China & Russia because they briefly protect his life but they have no use for him now and wont allow him to stay in their countries. He doesnt care if they will use the intel he leaked to them on their own or other citizens
- So who cares if he is a self-important narcissist? He didn't sell the country to the Chinese like the Bushes did.
- Let's not forget that Bush also allowed the Chinese to service American submarines, enabling them to create a tracking technology that effectively eliminates one third or our nuclear deterrent triad. And he had the green berets train the Chinese special forces, again sharing American military secrets with the Chinese. You want a traitor, you put George W. Bush on trial. And his dad, who shared missile and space technology with the Chinese.
- [quote]Let's not forget that Bush also allowed the Chinese to service American submarines, enabling them to create a tracking technology that effectively eliminates one third or our nuclear deterrent
As much as I want to believe this, I need a link.
- R254 so instead of coherently backing up the "hero" label for him when Snowden later actions prove otherwise. He isn't even Bradley Manning anymore ... he is Assange.
You are changing subject to focus on Bush to people who don't even respect for Bush and are very critical of Obama.
So this self entitled brat who is trying to ruffle diplomatic feathers btw allies, turn citizens against their countries AFTER those countries don't permit him asylum. And not the least bit uncomfortable expecting citizens of Ecuador to take an economic hit and suffer so he can survive. He is not principled he is just creating havoc at this point and it is relevent because it impacts ppl who never slighted him
- I want a link, too, R256. Did not know that, R255.
You sick fucking retarded cunt wannabe Stasi/KGB agent-
These are the techniques they've used on BManning---
1. Solitary Confinement/Isolation
2. Humiliation Techniques
3. Sleep Deprivation
4. Sensory Deprivation
5. Stress Positions
Short of waterboarding they've tortured him in gross violation of the Geneva Convention.
Bush, Cheney, Obama, Biden, Clinton(s) et al. should be brought before The Hague and tried for war crimes. If convicted, they should be publicly executed.
Fuck them all.
- Edward Snowden's spoo tastes like crème Chantilly, aromatised with slight lacings of vanilla.
- Libertarians and Republicans screech about there being no right to privacy in the Constitution, but most people feel differently and would be more appreciative of Snowden's actions had he stayed with his opposition to domestic surveillance.
Unfortunately, he's sabotaging US interests globally by giving the Chinese and other "less than friendly" governments information about US foreign intelligence gathering.
- The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Ed Snowden is a hero.
- In that presser, he sounded like he was trying to channel Fred Fuckin Roooosevelt fershitsake.
The least palatable of Japanese rice wines...
- An amateur Chinese whistleblower, who spent his free time embarrassing Communist party officials by posting pictures of their luxury cars on the internet, was rammed by a car, blinded with acid, and deprived of two of his fingers.
- If this guy is someone's hero, I guess I don't want to know about it. Ethel Mertz said it best : "I have sufficient."
- So, China got pissed that the NSA was snooping their computers, and cut IBM off.
This is just the start- no foreign government is going to trust any American tech company ever again.
The explanation is more obvious. In mid-August, an anonymous source told the Shanghai Securities News, a branch of the state-owned Xinhua News Agency, which reports directly to the Propaganda and Public Information Departments of the Communist Party, that IBM, along with Oracle and EMC, have become targets of the Ministry of Public Security and the cabinet-level Development Research Centre due to the Snowden revelations.
“At present, thanks to their technological superiority, many of our core information technology systems are basically dominated by foreign hardware and software firms, but the Prism scandal implies security problems,” the source said, according to Reuters. So the government would launch an investigation into these security problems, the source said.
He is a hero.
- China is demanding ALL banks replace their IBM servers and terminals because of US spyware.
The US Government is evil.
- R269, fuck China! They want USA to fail. Do you rather see them succeed? Are you a communist? FUCK CHINA!
He is a selfish, Libtard little shit. Libertarians are worse than Rethugs, and he's the worst of them all.
- Don't cry, R271.
I'm sure the government will find a nice job cleaning toilets for you.
- Snowden an EPIC hero.
- Maybe one day you morons will look at the sacrifices Snowden, and Manning, and Behrgdal made to expose how evil our government is and feel shame.
- Yes he is. And he will go down in history as a great american hero.
- R261's attitude is the reason why US standing in the world has pretty much evaporated in the last year or so. He sees nothing wrong with blanket surveillance of the whole world's private communications, just so long as the citizens of the good old US of A aren't affected. That kind of unconscious smugness, sense of entitlement and disregard for everyone but ourselves has sickened the stomachs of everyone who used to call themselves our friends.
- Why hate on Snowden?
- A nice profile of the hardcore libertarian that is in charge of cyber-security of FIRST LOOK MEDIA, Glenn Greenwald's new home. He is trying to create a framework where any journalist can use encryption to publish and transmit documents anonymously, protecting them from the government.
- Money, it makes the song Sell a big one for the planet cycle with soul. And they're growing up Hiatus-home today so will PB, hope all of them are Kleemann the over the hill top!
- Anyone exposing government evil is good in my book.
- I'm not the one who brought up that submarines were serviced in China, but I remember hearing that twice, once when Clinton was campaigning against Bush I -- a big part of his attack on Bush I was that he was too soft on China.
This was brought up again in 2001, pre 9/11, when Bush II sold Taiwan some weaponry and submarines so they could "defend" themselves from China. It was largely seen as a way for him to "make up" for what was considered his father's failure to deal with China properly.
But in the absence of a direct link I don't know how true it is, or if it was always just campaign rhetoric.
- Why the hate for someone who risked everything to expose evil?
- Stop being so naive, bitches...Every government in the whole fucking world is evil.
[quote]An amateur Chinese whistleblower, who spent his free time embarrassing Communist party officials by posting pictures of their luxury cars on the internet, was rammed by a car, blinded with acid, and deprived of two of his fingers.
At least the USGovernment had the decency to kill them.
Government steals to exist. It is therefore de facto evil.
Greenwald is, unfortunately, still a "progressive" socialist, but I suspect the evil tactics used by the US Government to harass him (and his husband) might have turned him into a heroic anti-government libertarian.
But, then again, libertarians are the ONLY people defending the bottom 99.9% from the evil actions of the government and mega corporations while also defending civil rights.
Obama's Nobel "Peace" Prize will be looked at as a joke in the next few years. He is just Bush with a tan, or Hitler without the 'stache.
- The testimony today about how the US Government tortured and killed people is sick.
The US Government is sick, and needs to be dismantled. ALL powers need to be devolved back to the local level.
- Last summer, after months of encrypted emails, I spent three days in Moscow hanging out with Edward Snowden for a Wired cover story. Over pepperoni pizza, he told me that what finally drove him to leave his country and become a whistleblower was his conviction that the National Security Agency was conducting illegal surveillance on every American. Thursday, the Second Circuit Court of Appeals in New York agreed with him.
In a long-awaited opinion, the three-judge panel ruled that the NSA program that secretly intercepts the telephone metadata of every American — who calls whom and when — was illegal. As a plaintiff with Christopher Hitchens and several others in the original ACLU lawsuit against the NSA, dismissed by another appeals court on a technicality, I had a great deal of personal satisfaction.
It’s now up to Congress to vote on whether or not to modify the law and continue the program, or let it die once and for all. Lawmakers must vote on this matter by June 1, when they need to reauthorize the Patriot Act.
A key factor in that decision is the American public’s attitude toward surveillance. Snowden’s revelations have clearly made a change in that attitude. In a PEW 2006 survey, for example, after the New York Times’ James Risen and Eric Lichtblau revealed the agency’s warrantless eavesdropping activities, 51 percent of the public still viewed the NSA’s surveillance programs as acceptable, while 47 percent found them unacceptable.
After Snowden’s revelations, those numbers reversed. A PEW survey in March revealed that 52 percent of the public is now concerned about government surveillance, while 46 percent is not.
Given the vast amount of revelations about NSA abuses, it is somewhat surprising that just slightly more than a majority of Americans seem concerned about government surveillance. Which leads to the question of why? Is there any kind of revelation that might push the poll numbers heavily against the NSA’s spying programs? Has security fully trumped privacy as far as the American public is concerned? Or is there some program that would spark genuine public outrage?
- Few people, for example, are aware that a NSA program known as TREASUREMAP is being developed to continuously map every Internet connection — cellphones, laptops, tablets — of everyone on the planet, including Americans.
“Map the entire Internet,” says the top secret NSA slide. “Any device, anywhere, all the time.” It adds that the program will allow “Computer Attack/Exploit Planning” as well as “Network Reconnaissance.”
One reason for the public’s lukewarm concern is what might be called NSA fatigue. There is now a sort of acceptance of highly intrusive surveillance as the new normal, the result of a bombardment of news stories on the topic.
I asked Snowden about this. “It does become the problem of one death is a tragedy and a million is a statistic,” he replied, “where today we have the violation of one person’s rights is a tragedy and the violation of a million is a statistic. The NSA is violating the rights of every American citizen every day on a comprehensive and ongoing basis. And that can numb us. That can leave us feeling disempowered, disenfranchised.”
In the same way, at the start of a war, the numbers of Americans killed are front-page stories, no matter how small. But two years into the conflict, the numbers, even if far greater, are usually buried deep inside a paper or far down a news site’s home page.
In addition, stories about NSA surveillance face the added burden of being technically complex, involving eye-glazing descriptions of sophisticated interception techniques and analytical capabilities. Though they may affect virtually every American, such as the telephone metadata program, because of the enormous secrecy involved, it is difficult to identify specific victims.
The way the surveillance story appeared also decreased its potential impact. Those given custody of the documents decided to spread the wealth for a more democratic assessment of the revelations. They distributed them through a wide variety of media — from start-up Web publications to leading foreign newspapers.
One document from the NSA director, for example, indicates that the agency was spying on visits to porn sites by people, making no distinction between foreigners and “U.S. persons,” U.S. citizens or permanent residents. He then recommended using that information to secretly discredit them, whom he labeled as “radicalizers.” But because this was revealed by The Huffington Post, an online publication viewed as progressive, and was never reported by mainstream papers such as the New York Times or the Washington Post, the revelation never received the attention it deserved.
Another major revelation, a top-secret NSA map showing that the agency had planted malware — computer viruses — in more than 50,000 locations around the world, including many friendly countries such as Brazil, was reported in a relatively small Dutch newspaper, NRC Handelsblad, and likely never seen by much of the American public.
Thus, despite the volume of revelations, much of the public remains largely unaware of the true extent of the NSA’s vast, highly aggressive and legally questionable surveillance activities. With only a slim majority of Americans expressing concern, the chances of truly reforming the system become greatly decreased.
While the metadata program has become widely known because of the numerous court cases and litigation surrounding it, there are other NSA surveillance programs that may have far greater impact on Americans, but have attracted far less public attention.
In my interview with Snowden, for example, he said one of his most shocking discoveries was the NSA’s policy of secretly and routinely passing to Israel’s Unit 8200 — that country’s NSA — and possibly other countries not just metadata but the actual contents of emails involving Americans. This even included the names of U.S. citizens, some of whom were likely Palestinian-Americans communicating with relatives in Israel and Palestine.
- An illustration of the dangers posed by such an operation comes from the sudden resignation last year of 43 veterans of Unit 8200, many of whom are still serving in the military reserves. The veterans accused the organization of using intercepted communication against innocent Palestinians for “political persecution.” This included information gathered from the emails about Palestinians’ sexual orientations, infidelities, money problems, family medical conditions and other private matters to coerce people into becoming collaborators or to create divisions in their society.
Another issue few Americans are aware of is the NSA’s secret email metadata collection program that took place for a decade or so until it ended several years ago. Every time an American sent or received an email, a record was secretly kept by the NSA, just as the agency continues to do with the telephone metadata program. Though the email program ended, all that private information is still stored at the NSA, with no end in sight.
With NSA fatigue setting in, and the American public unaware of many of the agency’s long list of abuses, it is little wonder that only slightly more than half the public is concerned about losing their privacy. For that reason, I agree with Frederick A. O. Schwartz Jr., the former chief counsel of the Church Committee, which conducted a yearlong probe into intelligence abuses in the mid-1970s, that we need a similarly thorough, hard-hitting investigation today.
“Now it is time for a new committee to examine our secret government closely again,” he wrote in a recent Nation magazine article, “particularly for its actions in the post-9/11 period.”
Until the public fully grasps and understands how far over the line the NSA has gone in the past — legally, morally and ethically — there should be no renewal or continuation of NSA’s telephone metadata program in the future.
- citizen 4 is still my hero
- Yes he is.