Isn't the outer ring of Paris where the Muslims live?
Yeah - Versailles and St. Cloud aren't in the 17 arrondissements. They're suburbs. It's like saying people in LA are upset, and the reaction is coming from Pomona.
Aren't Versailles and St-Cloud the wealthier suburbs? Saint-Denis and the other towns in the 93rd département are the ones with significant Muslim/immigrant populations.
Well, there is a strong belief in traditional male/female roles in France. French culture is very machismo, with men in charge and the French version of masculinity expected in men. French culture believes in a vary binary male/female, masculine/feminine ideal.
I think it's interesting that only now are people coming to realize the essential narrowness of Parisians. They're not a bunch of artists and poets--they're bitter city dwellers who think their addresses make them better than others despite the fact that they're not fundamentally different than the most lowbrow suburbanite.
Same as any other "world city."
[quote] French culture believes in a vary binary male/female, masculine/feminine ideal.
Their language assigns a gender to every noun.
R6 So does Spanish but Argentina and Spain have gay marriage and machismo to boot!
France is the only western European country where acceptance for gays actually decreased, it was down 6 % from the last survey in 2007.
R1, at some point, you should accept that Catholics also live in France... and they see you as an abomination - I do, too, but for a different reason.
It's the Muslims.
r7, the Latin American maschismo allows for same-sex dabbling and interests, whereas the French/Gallic maschismo does not. Latin American men especially have been more prone to engage in same-sex activity even while keeping a heterosexual identity.
[quote]Isn't the outer ring of Paris where the Muslims live?
R8 In that poll it's the 6th most accepting country out of 39 polled. Doesn't seem too bad?
France is a Catholic country. The ones who keep making all the noise are the far Right Catholic cunts. Fascism is becoming all the rage in the country. In France, women are expected not to report sexual harassment. It's insanely misogynist. Why do you think they granted Roman Polanski asylum?
The French are strange. They can be very loving, passionate, liberal and progressive in many ways, but also very traditional and pig-headed in others. There's a tribal, nationalistic, racist streak running through their veins as well.
"Isn't the outer ring of Paris where the Muslims live?"
I think "Outer Ring of Paris" is an old Cadinot movie.
R14, France didn't grant Roman Polanski asylum. He was born in Paris and is a French citizen. He grew up part-Jewish in Poland during the war, was in the Krakow ghetto and his mother was murdered at Auschwitz. Then he defected from communist Poland to the land of his birth, which gave him its citizenship. The idea that France granted him asylum so he could escape the US justice system on a charge of child rape (even though he had actually served the sentence he was initially given) is preposterous.
The anti-gay shouters are the minority. And, unlike the US, France has gay marriage.
R2 is correct. To give another analogy, it's like saying New Yorkers are upset and the reaction is coming from Pound Ridge, Darien or Ho-Ho-Kus.
Sadly the situation is getting worse in France. Young people cannot find jobs and they're trying to leave the country en masse.
[quote]Young people cannot find jobs and they're trying to leave the country en masse.
Because the Spaniards went to France to find work.
The open borders arrangement works best when times are good.
Why do you dumb bitches insist on sliming the french when it's obviously the muzzies? Did any of you read the story or comments at the link?
It's not the French it's the Muslims who have flocked to France.
[quote]The French are strange... There's a tribal, nationalistic, racist streak running through their veins as well.
Oh dear. Do you understand your own hypocrisy in making a generalisation to prove one.
Part of it is that Hollande is pro-gay marriage. He's seen as weak and this is a way for the right wing to express displeasure.
1) There's no hypocrisy in making a generalization unless you complain when others do it.
2) It's not an generalization to say there are many contradictions in the French character. I think what R15 was getting at is there is a significant segment of the French population that is "tribal, nationalistic, and racist" rather than saying all French people are, to some degree, "tribal, nationalistic, and racist"
The existence of this "tribal, nationalistic and racist" vein in the French population is a matter of history and a description of current events. The leader of National Front is more popular than the Incumbent president
OP is the kind of guy who takes the action of one person in a foreign country and assumes everybody in that country is the same and acts the same. I shudder to think what he thinks about the Germans.
But I'm wasting my time here, you're just trolling the net for articles to bash on my country. Putain de pédé à la con.
[quote]1) There's no hypocrisy in making a generalization unless you complain when others do it.
Such as describing a nation as having racism running through their veins?
[quote]2) It's not an generalization to say there are many contradictions in the French character.
The post was not about contradictions:
[quote]The French are strange... There's a tribal, nationalistic, racist streak running through their veins as well.
Have a think about if we were talking about not the French, but Ugandans. Or about gays as tribal, promiscuous and [childish epithet posted by a bigoted tool]. It sounds rather different non?
Non. Not all generalizations about a culture are false. Would you object to saying the French are not obese and tend to dress well?
There is a lot more to racism than making generalizations--segregation, oppression, lack of public concern, xenophobia. In France's history--collaboration with Hitler.
[quote]The post was not about contradictions:
Yes, it was: "They can be very loving, passionate, liberal and progressive in many ways, but also very traditional and pig-headed in others."
According to Wikipedia, St. Cloud is one of the wealthiest cities in France.
Culture is different from 'racism running through their veins'. Or do you think that black French people have racism running through their veins.
That was a metaphor.
Oh just STFU r28. Nothing more irritating than being called racist by a fucking yankee. Really? It's not in France that the blacks are getting gunned down for walking down the street honey, it's in yours. Check your shithole of a country and come back to us.
Sheesh I was on your side r32 till you said that. Possibly black people are not getting gunned down for walking the streets, but it's usually other AA's doing it, related to guns and gangs.
OTOH, Muslims in France gunned down a whole lot of Jewish school children and there's been an upswing of Muslims harassing Jews in France & the rest of Europe.
[quote]It's not in France that the blacks are getting gunned down for walking down the street honey, it's in yours.
That's how to generalize. For the record they are also living in the White House. When can we look forward to an Algerian President of France? Are there any Muslims in senior government positions in France?
This fucking yankee (which I imagine you didn't mean as a compliment) never said the US was free from racism.
Exatcly dumb fuck, that's the whole point. Don't take the actions of a few to make a generalization about an ENTIRE country.
You'd think they'd be more open-minded. Frogs breed with the cloaca- an "everything hole".
Remember gurls *they* have it running through their veins.
R33, what side are you on? The one where you whine about generalizations about the US while going after Muslims in general?
You're actually trying to blame all of homophobia in France on Muslims...because parties like Le Pen's are clearly run by Muslims.
[quote]OTOH, Muslims in France gunned down a whole lot of Jewish school children and there's been an upswing of Muslims harassing Jews in France & the rest of Europe.
It was a lone gunman who killed three kids and a rabbi. It wasn't a "whole lot" and it wasn't MuslimS, but yeah, lecture R32 on generalizations because you're not a glaring example of myopic hypocrisy.
"Putain de pédé à la con."
Isn't this a homophobic comment? The French guy is not helping his own case here...
r38 the Muslims in France are getting bolder against Jews, against gays, etc.
"SARCELLES, France — The gunshots outside a synagogue and the grenade that shattered the windows of a kosher grocery spread fear into the streets – but caused little surprise.
Jews across France say anti-Semitic threats have escalated since a deadly assault on a Jewish school in the southwestern town of Toulouse this spring. The attack on the grocery store in the Paris suburb of Sarcelles and the shooting outside the synagogue in nearby Argenteuil came in late September.
In all cases, police suspect Muslim extremists. The Toulouse attacker was a Frenchman trained by Islamist terrorists.
Anti-terrorist police killed one man and arrested 11 in raids this month against an Islamist cell suspected in the Sarcelles attack.
French Jews believe the danger comes from radical messages that appeal to young Muslims in France who are unemployed, angry, alienated and looking for someone to blame."
I think the French right wing are just more organized(marie and marine lepen did get a significant percentages of the vote). I don't think France is more homophobic than other western European countries. I think France just has a highly active political culture that means people always feel empowered to bang on about something and to protest in the streets.
The majority that do support gay marriage are just silent.
r32 It is not mutually exclusive. One can agree that both the US AND France are racist with the US being more so.
The muslim community in France (20% Muslim) has completely polluted the French culture.
R13, but you still don't get it.. France is the ONLY western country where acceptance decreased, it's 6th today.. but where will it be five years from now if this continues? This research article certainly mirror the fact that France has turned right, and more people are bigots than five years ago.
R44, you don't get it: there was a big fluster when the bigots came out against gay marriage, they may have made some people think twice about this specific piece of legislation although the majority is still in favour and, like in all countries that actually pass same-sex marriage (except, maybe, South Africa) support will increase over time.
In any case, France now actually has same-sex marriage. When all 50 US states have it, then Americans can perhaps say something about how superior their country is on this issue to France.
Are you the same moron who kept posting bullshit about how the same-sex marriage legislation was going to be stopped but now it's been passed you have to find some other bigoted anti-French angle to bash them with?
Amazing, France is one of the only 14 countries in the world that has same-sex marriage (the type where you can bring your foreign spouse into the country to live with you) and yet the Francophobes still can't stop their bs!
R43, really, racist shithead? The ones screaming against gay marriage in France where the white Christian "pure-blooded" French who, like you, are anti-Muslim.
The reason France has turned more to the right just like the rest of Europe is because of the Muslim invasion of Europe. And Muslims are not fitting in, nor do they want to.
In Italy, for instance there are laws protecting Italian culture and some ethnic farmers are getting thrown out, and that includes some towns where ethnic restaurants are banned. But I understand it, Italian culture is worth saving. Foreigners ARE polluting it, at least according to many Italians.
[quote]I think it's interesting that only now are people coming to realize the essential narrowness of Parisians. They're not a bunch of artists and poets--they're bitter city dwellers who think their addresses make them better than others despite the fact that they're not fundamentally different than the most lowbrow suburbanite.
Most DLers are not the worldly sophisticates they pretend to be.
A French city has banned as obscene a movie poster that depicts a male couple kissing .
As of 2010, according to the French Government which does not have the right to ask direct questions about religion and uses a criterion of people’s geographic origin as a basis for calculation, there are between 5 to 6 million Muslims in metropolitan France. The government counted all those people in France who came here from countries with a dominant Muslim population, or whose parents did. Only 33% of those 5 to 6 million people (2 million) said they were practicing believers. That figure is the same as that obtained by the INED/INSEE study in October 2010.
The United States Department of State placed it at roughly 10%, while two 2007 polls estimated it at about 3% of the total population. The CIA World Factbook places it at 5–10%.
A Pew Forum study, published in January 2011, estimated 4.7 million Muslims in France in 2010 (and forecasted 6.9 million in 2030).
According to Jean-Paul Gourévitch (fr), there were 7 million Muslims in France in 2007
OP- its called the Roman Catholic Church. As usual it religious screeds imposing their beliefs on others.
Most French people don't go to Church.
Really, moron at r46? Which are these Italian "towns where ethnic restaurants are banned"? I think that's made-up bullshit.
But, if Italy is as racist as you claim then that's probably also why it's one of the less enlightened countries of the EU as regards gay rights.
Again, the morons refuse to acknowledge that the minority screaming against same-sex marriage are right-wing Catholic, Christian pure-blooded French who don't like Muslim immigrants.
R48, we know, it's what this thread is about, although I think you'll find it wasn't a town but some distant conservative suburbs of Paris. This has been condemned as an act of censorship by the government. The movie it advertises, which won a directing prize at Cannes, can still be seen everywhere. Another French gay movie, lesbian-themed and directed by a Muslim immigrant won top movie prize at Cannes.
Can we stop knocking dicks about who "has" gay marriage? France indeed voted in gay marriage nationally, but only very recently, but it's strongly federal (and it was very narrowly passed). The US has gay marriage too, just not in every state yet.
If France were to have allowed voting on the issue by region, then they very likely wouldn't have gay marriage in much of the country either.
Not much to brag about on either side of the ocean, I'm afraid.
[quote]It is not mutually exclusive. One can agree that both the US AND France are racist with the US being more so.
Except that the dimwits defending the US wouldn't blame millions and millions of white Christians in the south and Midwest for homophobia, yet they have no problem blaming a minority in France for the racism and homophobia that has always existed amongst the "real" French. The Conservatives in the UK feel the same way and yet again, the dimwits will try and blame minorities.
Bigots have no problem separating the good from the bad when it comes to groups they defend, but they haven't the capacity to extend that courtesy to other groups because they really don't want to.
[quote]Except that the dimwits defending the US wouldn't blame millions and millions of white Christians in the south and Midwest for homophobia,
The French are idiots, quite clearly. And I live in France.
Thanks for the link R40, but the anti-gay protesters were Catholic and anyone in France who was near such a protest knows that.
As much as France wants to believe and make believe it's like Germany and the UK, it's actually just like Italy. Cannot believe I'm wasting my time living here.
Please it was 20 people in a tiny village.
Most of Europe adopted a gay friendly perspective without the struggle that has characterized America. But the forces that created the struggle were present in all their countries too. I wouldn't worry about it overmuch. It will be easier to win the struggle in France, coming so late in the game, and the example will deter others in Europe. Indeed, within 20 years I daresay Poland will be among the most gay friendly places in Europe.
r55 Actually this board/forum and the US society in general DOES blame white evangelicals(and Mormons) for most homophobia. In addition black Americans were falsely blamed for the failure of gay marriage in California.
That said I disagree with those that are blaming Muslims for the homophobia in France.
Psychoanalysis actually has deep roots in France (Jacques Lacan, Luce Irigaray, etc.) Under Freudian psychoanalysis, of course, the presence of a father and mother is central to healthy development. This is why a lot of intellectuals in France are anti-gay and think gay families are monstrous.
Because of this thread I looked up the protests in France and yes, saw they were mostly white people. There's a rise of the Jeunesses Nationalistes Révolutionnaires and I can't figure out if they're connected with Golden Dawn in Greece or are less hateful than GD.
Why is every thread in DL about homophobia being hijacked by some rabid Jew who obviously hates muslims?
You're so fucking obvious.
Someone please start a thread about France in general. On the one hand, such great food, culture, opeeness, seemingly tolerance. But, all is not what it seemns. (Some)DLers have for years talked about getting out of the US for a better place, and have often cited France as a possible destination. But, there are some disturbing aspect of France lingering under the surface of supposed wonderfulness - like the reaction to gay marriage, and even everyday misogyny.
So what's the deal. What is the true France? Most likely, there's no easy answer.
I've lived here for 5 years. I'm in no hurry to go back to the States.
R52, unfortunately the moron at r46 is right - there has been a push in Italy by the extreme right (the Northern League, mainly, and backed by Berlusconi's party, willing to back any right-wing party's insanity as they're so desperate for support) to get back to local traditions and identity, which also includes anti-homosexual, Catholic, "family" traditions. The local identity spiel is the same idea that was promoted by the Left in the 1970s, with the big difference that then it was informed by a sense of inclusion and mutual respect for other cultures. Now the message is "We're right, and you fuckers either toe the line or we'll force you out" (and in some northern Italian towns ruled by the Northern League, such as Cittadella near Treviso and Vicenza, you can't rent accommodation if you're foreign - where "foreign" is often just shorthand for Moslem, or more generally African, in all its non-white declinations, or Asian). Things might be changing now, though - the crisis has brought about a broad coalition between Berlusconi and the centre-Left, and civil unions are again being talked about.
As for France, all these people saying it's the Moslems' fault are conveniently forgetting that almost all the anti-gay marriage, pro-"family" protesting is being undertaken by Catholic fundies, many of whom are, surprisingly and worryingly, very young, who have found a temporary ally in a part of the Moslem community.
Sorry, r52, I also meant to post this link... There are other places apart from Forte dei Marmi that have issued similar ordinances.
Well the islamic defense league has shown up at r65 and r68
Oh please fuck off and die, r70. Nothing could be further from the truth re me (r68). I'm a proud atheist and will not have my sexuality dictated to by anyone - and that includes repressed Catholic priests, popes and nuns, as well as Imams of any persuasion, "moderate" or hardline, or rabbi, conservative or otherwise. I'm also, unlike you apparently, not a prejudiced racist.
What's intolerable is people like you, whose unfounded bigotry just won't accept truth when it's staring you in the face - in France, the anti-gay movement is a profoundly _Catholic_ movement.
There is nothing wrong with Italy or France trying to preserve their culture. Really. The gay marriage bill passed in France and will eventually pass in Italy.
The turn to the right r68 in Europe is definitely due to the influx of Africans & Arabs in Europe, most of whom are Muslim and do not want to fit in with Western culture. It's a culture clash.
I'm sorry but you can call people racist till kingdom come but that is the reality, it's the way things are. Muslim countries are very repressive. Turkey wasn't as bad till recently, now look at them. Egypt allowed women to go veil-free now look at them.
r72 - one of the cultural traits that many right-wing Italians and French want to preserve is that marriage is between one man and one woman, just as one of the cultural traits that many north African and middle-eastern countries want to preserve is infibulation, and one of the traits that some of the remoter parts of Sardinia want to preserve is arranged marriages. Your point is (apart from implying that Islam is the root of all evil)? Mine is that not all "culture" is worth preserving.
The turn to the right in Europe is due to a whole set of very different and apparently contradictory factors, all of which have at their core a sense of anxiety and uncertainty following the collapse of the old world order—to reduce this complex phenomenon to an "influx of Africans and Arabs in Europe" is to be reductive in the extreme, blind to the real complexities at play and therefore only able to offer simplistic, knee-jerk solutions ("kick 'em all out!"—see the Front National, UKIP, Lega Nord, Golden Dawn...).
And, if your thesis were true, then how do you explain the sharp turn to the right in places where there is no such Muslim or African influx—or would you like to argue that Putin's nascent, repressive authoritarianism is a reaction to the Islamic countries at its borders?
I really think you're just cherry-picking your "proof" to reinforce your strongly entrenched racism. Own up to it, at least.
You're an idiot.
R62 Black Americans voted down gay marriage in California.There is still a great deal of homophobia in the black community.In addition, Mexican Catholics voted against marriage equality in California as well. It was those two groups that were the deciding factor in the vote. The Mormons and The Roman Catholics both worked together to defeat gay marriage in California BUT in real terms Mormons are such a small voting block there whereas the vast majority of Mexican Americans are Catholic.
The Muslims in France are part of the problem. They come from countries in where gayness is beyond verboten. It happens of course but the idea of gay rights in Muslim countries is unheard of.
The French also have that idea of female sensuality and the fact women and men are different inherent in their society.The sexual tension between men and women is a big part of their culture They are not as homophobic as the Muslims immigrants.
R72 France is one thing Italy is another. I've met Italians who are tolerant of gays BUT stop short of things like marriage equality. BTW your assessment on the immigration is correct.
R73 Sorry you might be the real idiot!What are you preening on about? It sounds like you have never been to Europe the way that you talk.
The Lega Nord?! The Lega Nord is nothing like the Golden Dawn. I recently talked to an Irish woman about immigrants in Ireland and she had the typical European attitude, they don't belong. It's ironic because Irish were treated like absolute shit in the US and Britain for how long as an other, right? Then again the Irish haven't had massive immigration into their country from Asia,Africa and eastern Europe. and even the Irish, you were treated like garbage in other countries don't feel the compassion for a new culture. They see it as a threat to their culture.
Wow, r74, you spoke to an Irish woman??!! And she actually had "the typical European attitude"!? I bet what she said sounded a lot like your own prejudices, unhindered and unmediated by reflection or intelligence?
R75 Not my prejudices, I have family in several European countries and many Europeans feel like that! Actually I am using my intelligence to give you an objective analysis of the situation NOT coloring anything with my own bias.On the other hand,the closest you have been to Europe is going to Brooklyn and pretended that Park Slope was a nice part of Paris!
r76, this is r75. You've just shown that your assumptions have led you astray, again—I've been living in Italy for about 25 years now, after having spent quite a few years in Paris (where I still work fairly regularly). I even vote in Italy, for fuck's sake. Despite your feeble attempts at snarky humour, I've never been to Brooklyn (or the States, for that matter)—and no amount of talking to the relatives I've got in NY will ever induce me to make sweeping and inaccurate statements about the US or its "typical attitude" to anything. That's why I call bullshit on your version of what's happening here in Europe, and especially your assertion, based on what an Irish woman said about immigrants, that the "typical European attitude" is that immigrants don't belong here, or even that the real danger to gay rights in Europe or the backbone to the anti-gay marriage movement in France is Islam. It just isn't.
Take your racist agenda (black Americans? Catholic Mexicans??), and shove it.
Gay marriage was never voted down in California. The election was stolen.
Russia's homophobia has been driven by population decline, a condition caused by astonishing levels of alcoholism. Rather than regulate vodka, they thought they could stop their shrinkage by demonizing gays.
r77 so you live & vote in Italy? And you didn't even know about the attempts of many towns and villages to preserve their culture?
And anyone that disagrees with you, like the other person who is European (you're not I take it) is wrong and a racist, and you've told us you're the only one that is correct?
So where were you born, exactly? And do you have any Italian friends at all?
1) Of course I know about the "attempts of many towns and villages to preserve their culture", as you put it. I live here, for Christ's sake. How long are you going to keep making asinine assumptions about me?
2) Almost all my friends are Italian (and some are French, and British, and Australian), and my colleagues are also almost all Italians (there are also a few Brits and Spaniards and Americans at work, too). Oh, and my husband's Italian as well.
3) I don't know who this other European person you're talking about is. All I know is that you're a tiresome, boring, ignorant little shit.
Actually Russia has a lot of African immigrants too, and that is one of the reasons for the rise of the the stormfront type of people there.
Because ze franch mec iz tout de pusseeee. Ee do not know anysing elze. Trou de cul so tight ee could pool ze carpet tacks.
France is the only western European country where acceptance for gays DECREASED over the past five years.. with as much as 6 %.
Research report at the link. Spain is still the most gay friendly country in the world, not surprising. Canada is at third.
R77 You are a completely clueless cunt. Calling someone a Black American or a Mexican American Catholic is not racist at all.Most Mexicans are Catholic no? What planet are you from?! It's like calling an Italian Catholic OR an Irish Catholic.
BTW I have relatives in the UK, France, Italy,Germany and Greece. I have been to all those countries and more. I remember the controversy you had in Italy when they were talking about taking the crosses down from the classrooms. AND that painting of Muhammed in hell in the church in Italy was a big complaint from the Muslim community there.Did the Italians give a shit about how the Muslims felt...NO!So please stop it with the bullshit.
Germans don't want Germany to become Turkey. French don't want France to become Tunisia. Italians want to maintain their culture as well. There is nothing wrong in saying that. However homophobia shouldn't be part of it.
You have never been to Brooklyn? shame on you, it's wonderful. You should visit ,parts of it remind me of Paris and other parts remind me of Naples!
The Muslims are part of the problem. Many of their attitudes are antediluvian. Of course the native French have their own attitudes BUT the Muslims too are a problem.
How predictable that a thread ostensibly about homophobia in France so rapidly devolved into a hatefest about African Americans and Mexicans. Zzzzz...
Wow, r86, your dick's much bigger than r82's, but can you also pull a rabbit out of your ass?
r86 if I wasn't already married I'd ask you to marry me. Now that you've talked about B'lyn it makes me think, yeah I'd like to visit there as I'm totally into art and would love to visit the museums in NYC as well.
Naples - can you tell me more about it? I thought people here on DL said it's kind of dodgy?
French uptight?? This is coming the most puritanical country in the world
Non Monsieur quite the opposite.. the men in continental Europe are more openly affectionate toward each other than in stuffy stiff upper lip Britain. Or so it seems... they are my favourite.
The beautiful Jean Dujardin did a "comedy" scene where he gets fucked up the ass (sadly not that hot as the other actor looked too much like him which made it distracting) in addition to one where a guy plays with his ass. You would never see that from a Hollywood star. OK, Jim Carrey did something similar but still...
Here is Van Damme (Belgian) back in the day.
I'd like to hear more from r82 et al, since he seems to be the only one on this thread to talk with any authority on the subject. Most of you sound like you're just making shit up.
R82, what do you think the deal is with all of this? Are the fringe right people just feeling emboldened or is there a strong Catholic/anti-gay sentiment around?
Sort of weird because all French men seem nelly to me. The whole country seems to be one large Fairy Place.
I have no idea where you've been in France [R93]. But in Paris where I live, The gays here seem hyper masculine almost to the point of breaking my gaydar.
R87 It's not a hate fest at all. Fact of the matter is that both African and Mexican Americans defeated gay marriage in California.Without those two voting blocks, there would still be gay marriage in California, PERIOD.
R89 Naples improved demonstrably during the 90s.Old buildings were sandblasted and the city became less seedy. There is a decrepit splendor to Naples that is very Mediterranean in that regard. It kind of like non hipster Brooklyn in parts BUT with palm trees! Also the region of Campania is so gorgeous. The natural beauty is quite magnificent. In addition, Caserta has a royal palaces that was modeled after Versailles.It's a great food city as well.
R95, but let's ignore the fact that in the whitest states in this country, even basic gay rights are hard to come by and that we have legislators trying to make even the word "gay" illegal - the race of the majority in those states doesn't even enter your mind. You don't hold those people responsible based on their race, do you?
R96 Yes it does. The fact that Utah is a majority Mormon state(with a high percentage of white people BTW) is why you will not see gay marriage anytime soon.In addition because of Baptists in the South(mostly white but including black people as well) marriage equality will have an uphill battle for some time to come.
The problem with people like you is that you are fearful that you will be insensitive to minorities in defending marriage equality rights.I on the other hand don't give a shit what creed or ethnicity you believe in because you are on the opposite side of the issue if you disagree with me!So if I have to criticize White and Black Baptists,White Mormons, Catholic Mexicans or Hasidic Jews I will.
To those of you who can read French (this happened two days ago, Sunday June 16, 2013). All I know is I'm never setting foot in Saint-Cloud again.
Saint-Cloud is a well-to-do suburb of Paris.