- Bet Betty is sending Sally to boarding school.
- Sally would probably do better at a boarding school away from her mother.
I bet if this is true Betty will want to send her to an all-girls' school like Farmington (Miss Porter's) or Foxcroft.
- We haven't seen Glenn Bishop in awhile.
- If you live on the west coast and subscribe to Time Warner, Mad Men airs at 10 pm tonight, not 7.
- This is the night Megan falls off the terrace. I just know it.
- I am about Sally's age (born 1956) and went to boarding school -- she'll get into more trouble than EVER.
- Is Megan still alive?
- So I'm in an area where you can't get neither AMC NOR their live streams (or episode videos afterwards, even in the internet - they get blocked). What I usually do is wait until the next day for video streams... but ....
Is there any way I can watch a non-AMC live video stream tonight?
- Get a friend with Skype or FaceTime to point it at their TV.
- Sally bitch-slapping Betty!
- That was a beautifully acted scene with Pete and Peggy.
- Agree w R11
- Is Megan still alive?
- Dawn was wearing yellow at first, then green. That means that Meghan is in danger, but still alive.
- Excellent Pete/Peggy scene.
I thought Megan was going to jump on Sylvia's hunky son but maybe it will be Sally.
Who's going to make the first Julie joke?
- Agreed, the Pete/Peggy scene was beautifully executed. Only complaint: no Joan!
- I love R14.
- Ouch, the dialogue in this Ted/Don confrontation is awful.
- Bob Benson is a degenerate.
- Oh, god, not Don and Sylvia again.
- Bob and Manolo!
- The crestfallen look on Bob Benson`s face when Peter commented about `degenerates` spoke volumes.
- Bob and Pete!!
- Bob Benson's a mo!
- Good God, Bob could do better
- Bob and Pete!
- Wow..Bob wants Pete. Bobs hot but has shitty taste in men.
- Why r19?
- Aim higher, Bob! Stan. Or Cosgrove.
That Julie - what a bitch!
- When Bob hinted to Pete that Manolo is gay, Pete referred to Manolo as a degenerate.
- Pete??? Gross. What an unlikely crush.
- Tom and Lorenzo called it.
- Julie's a cunt.
I ha'nt KNOW MISTER BOB LIKES THE HOMOSEX! He make the full knee press on MISTER PETE.
The knee, it make the gentle approach on the knee of the OTHER MAN. It is the known tradition of the office homosex.
I am draped in COMPLETE CERTAINTY MISTER BOB has the full 1960 HAIRY PUBIS in his pantalones!!!!
I am bathed in the ANTiCiPATION!
- Sally 's going to see...what do you think?!?!?
- Sally catches Daddy! THAT was good (and long overdue)
- WHY COULDN'T IT HAVE BEEN BOB AND KEN COSGROVE?
- Did Sylvia jump off the balcony?
- Great episode, but it's tough to claim that it's not a soap.
- What a sleaze!!
- Can someone please answer this:
Why would Bob make a move on Pete right after Pete calls gay men degenerate?
- Poor Sally - after walking in on Roger & the French lady, now her dad and Sylvia, what's next? Bob Benson and Mitchell? (yes, please.)
Notice Julie pouring wine for Megan, the bitch!
Peggy meanwhile copes with the mouse problem on her own.
- I didn't get a good look because I got distracted with something else during the scene, did they show side cheek on Don when Sally caught him?
- That Manolo guy specializes in stereotypical Spanish accents. Did they get him from central casting?
- Hmmm, I think Bob recognizes when people are needy and moves in for the kill (as he did with Joan.) Maybe he's not really into Pete but wants to make Pete dependent on him?
- Sally saw.
This is not going to end well...
- R43, they did.
- Don has just lost Sally for good.
Sylvia was acting like she was going to kill herself. Maybe she will!
- Next week, Don starts dressing like Ted.
- The girl who plays Sally out-acts Megan, Betty and Sylvia. (Bitchy Betty was great again tonight.)
- I want to see Bob Benson naked with a hot guy.
- And just like Peggy's mom said, Peggy now has her cat.
- The way Elizabeth Moss nearly burst into tears when Pete's mother mentioned their child was amazingly done.
- Why did Pete throw the Raisin Bran? Did it not have two full scoops?
- OH BOB
- Pete's struggling with his feelings toward hot Bob.
- OMG! Bob Benson is a homo! I can't believe he'd make a move on Pete minutes after Pete called Manolo a degenerate. Bad move.
- [quote]Hmmm, I think Bob recognizes when people are needy and moves in for the kill (as he did with Joan.) Maybe he's not really into Pete but wants to make Pete dependent on him?
Yours is the most plausible explanation. But why is Bob doing this? Just a manipulative amoral go-getter? Something else?
- I wonder if Pete is thinking about that one time at Andover . .
- The look on Bob's face shows he has fallen for the unloveable man. I don't suppose theres ANY way it could end well.
- Bob's a Uranist!
- What are the odds the guy who jumps off the balcony is Bob Benson???
- So Don has a gay son?
- I'm not sure about Bob's motivation in seeking out Pete. He certainly got Manolo (fellow gay) for Pete's mother to curry his gratitude. The actor Bob did a great job in that scene. The look on his face as he walked to the door of the office, just before he put that self effacing smile back on.
- Well, we all knew about Bob, didn't we? I wonder what will happen next? How many episodes are coming?
- GODDAMMIT MEGHAN WAS SUPPOSED TO DIE. WHY DIDN'T SHE DIE?? THIS SHOW SUCKS.
- Am I the only one who thought Bob's crush on Pete (of all people!) came out of absolutely fucking nowhere? Did I somehow mix a bunch of subtext leading up to this revelation? Him crushing on Don I can understand, or even Kenny, but asshole-and-a-half PETE CAMPBELL?
Sally's a mini-Betty, bitches. Don't even THINK she won't use her discovery to her advantage. Betty wants to send her away to boarding school, which I'm sure Sally hates; watch Don pony up to have Sally move in with him and Megan and go to Brearley or one of NYC's better prep schools (Brearley's within walking distance of Don's building, conveniently).
Btw am I the only one who figured out that Peggy bought the cat to take care of her rat problem, since she couldn't get hunky Stan out of bed to do it for her? (and can't call Don or Ted to help, for obvious reasons)
All in all, a good but not great episode, easily eclipsed by last week's (which admittedly had the advantage of a lot of Roger and Joan).
- It's interesting that last season when Peggy and Stan told Peggy's mother she and Abe were moving together her mother told her, "If you're lonely, get a cat"... and now she has.
- [quote]Him crushing on Don I can understand, or even Kenny, but asshole-and-a-half PETE CAMPBELL?
You're right: people only crush on nice people, never on assholes.
- I really like the actress who plays Nan Chaough (Ted's wife).
btw, what kind of name is "Chaough"? French?
- Who was the guy with the eyepatch in the giant photograph over Stan's bed?
- Was Pete's throwing the empty cereal box at the wall in frustration at the end a sign that he realized he threw away a chance with Bob to get some solace and love?
- The picture of the guy with the eye patch was Moshe Dayan, Israeli military and statesman.
- I think Pete was just pissed that on top of everything else, he didn't have enough cereal. I'm also wondering if Bob's motivation wasn't entirely about "love." Though I do think he's genuinely gay. Anyway, it all plays well with his mother telling Pete he was fundamentally unlovable - a great bitch-mom thing to do. And wonderfully born out by the way Bob hypothetically described his possible relationship to Pete and Pete's utter rejection of it.
And all I could think of in that last exchange between Don and Sally was how this tale would be repeated in therapy over and over again. Poor Sally: genetically blessed but psychologically cursed by her parents.
- Do you think Sally fell for Don's explaination? I'm not sure how naive Sally is.
- My take was that when Sally said "okay" to Don's story, she wasn't accepting it as the truth, but acquiescing to the lie.
- Peggy obviously got the cat because of the rat but she also fulfilled her mother's words.
- I'm thinking it's Sylvia who ends up dead by suicide.
- Manolo creeped me out.
I'll bet he isn't even Spanish.
- Yes, Sylvia jumps off the balcony. Hence, the police cars in the promo poster.
- Peggy sitting there was the cat was hilarious.
- Oily used-car salesman Bob Benson does not interest me at all. I can't imagine why he made a pass at Pete two seconds after Pete called Manolo a "degenerate," I have no idea what the purpose of that scene was, and I do not care. I wish that character would slip away in a pool of his own grease and stop taking up air time.
[quote]Do you think Sally fell for Don's explaination? I'm not sure how naive Sally is.
Hell, no, she did not believe for a second that Don was just comforting Sylvia. Sally is 14, and while she may not have "made it to second base twice" like her bratty friend, she is not THAT naive. She knows you don't need to take off your pants and get on top of your distraught neighbor unless you are planning to "comfort" her with your dick. Sally pretended to go along with what Don said because she had no interest in discussing the matter further (especially since he was just going to tell her insultingly stupid lies, anyway), not because she believed him.
- The way the episode ended with no music seemed to be a way to tell us, Don and Sally's relationship has become irreparable.
- I love the little character flourishes that add nothing to the plot but which enrich the show, for example, the smooth-talking, overly complimentary doorman greeting the older ladies as "fashion models," just as he had earlier with Sally and her friend. btw, was Sally's friend the same girl whom Betty went looking for in the season opener?
- And now Sally knows why the door was open that allowed Ida to come inside.
- Good point, r85.
- Why, R85? You mean because the silly doorman let her in? Or, because Sally made the connection between the open service porch entrance that let Don sneak out?
- If Don needed draft dodger help for someone, why go through an important new client? Why not go through Henry? Surely he has important connections.
- Don told Sally that he was the one who left the service door open, r87; now, she can easily figure out WHY he left it open.
- r89, I think you're giving Sally--and the writers--a little too much credit.
- [quote]genetically blessed but psychologically cursed
Story of my life. Amazing how parents can fuck you right up. :(
- Season finale is June 23.. only two more episodes.
- Still time for someone to fall off the balcony, fall down the elevator shaft, or take a tumble down the stairs. I think Sylvia is going to die.
- They need to do a "On the next episode of Mad Men" preview that shows the characters all doing the same thing, like picking up the phone or walking down a hallway. No variation.
- Me too, R93. The poster for the season has one Don holding a woman's hand out in public and I'm assuming that's the Don who is married, but he's looking back at the cops and perhaps that's the cheating Don.
Sylvia seemed as though she was losing her mind when she was caught.
- Decent though soapy episode which thankfully had SOME plot development.
- [quote][R89], I think you're giving Sally--and the writers--a little too much credit.
Eh, I don't think it'd be much of a stretch for her to figure out Don left the dorr open in the course of sneaking down to the Rosens, but I also don't think it's a very big deal either way.
- Poor Sally. Cheating, lying dog of a father. Seeing Roger getting a bj from Meghan's mother last year. Treated to Grandma Frances' take on love and sex. Bitch mother.
- [quote]While discussing the charms of Mitchell Rosen, Sally and her friend compared him to Mark Lindsay—the lead singer from Paul Revere and the Raiders. Ready to be spooked? Lindsay at one point lived in the Los Angeles house where Tate was later murdered.
- Laughed out loud when Don was importuning Sally through the door, "you thought you saw something, but I was comforting Mrs. Rosen". Heeheehee, with his pants down while he was grinding away.
- Don could have said, "You will be surprised at how much this never happened" but it won't work on Sally. It did happen.
- Article: "Is Bob Benson Gay? Probably Not."
(Spoiler warning: Don't read this if you haven't seen Sunday's "Mad Men," entitled "Favors")
Bob Benson might be gay -- or just a shrewd manipulator of 1960s homophobia.
The crucial moment in Sunday's "Mad Men" was Sally Draper's terrible discovery of her father having an affair with his neighbor -- but the episode also slipped in a tantalizing new clue about Bob's mysterious motives.
Last week, "Mad Men" creator Matthew Weiner declined to comment to TheWrap on the widespread theory that Benson (James Wolk) is a government agent, sent to spy on serial liar Don Draper. On Sunday, we were offered another possibility: Bob is constantly on the wrong floor, offering his services to everyone in sight, because of a sexual interest in at least one of the men of Sterling Cooper & Partners.
But I think that suggestion is classic "Mad Men" misdirection. In fact, I'd argue, Bob has masterfully honed in on and exploited Pete Campbell's greatest insecurity.
We received our signal that Bob may be gay or bisexual when he appeared to proposition Pete (Vincent Karthesier) in a closed-door meeting about the nurse Bob referred to Pete to care for his mother. When Bob mentioned the nurse's likely homosexuality, Pete called him a "degenerate." Bob then began a short monologue about whether you -- he used the second person -- might fall in love with someone who dutifully attended to your every whim. As he spoke, he touched his knee to Pete's, spreading Pete's legs slightly.
Shouldn't he have known from the "degenerate" comment that Pete wasn't gay? Or did he see it as Pete overcompensating, as a cover? I think it's closer to the latter. But I don't think Bob really thinks Pete is gay.
I'm guessing that Bob has guessed -- correctly -- that Pete has doubts about his own masculinity. That's why he asserts it constantly with his too-big sideburns, his frequent affairs, his phallic hunting rifle. In Pete's homophobia, he of course interprets homosexuality as unmanly.
So Pete isn't worried about whether to have sex with Bob -- he's not interested. But he is deeply in his own head about what signal he gave off to make Bob think he might be gay. He goes home at night to his empty apartment, where he also finds his cereal box empty -- because he no longer has Trudy to cook him manly dinners ("ribeye in the pan, with butter"). He hurls the box at the cabinets. No gayness here.
Bob, meanwhile, is in a good position. He's psyched out a potential rival, and if Pete later accuses him of propositioning him, then Joan, for one, will attest that Bob sure doesn't seem gay to her, based on their previous history.
But Pete won't say anything, because he fears that that, too, would raise questions about his manliness.
Weiner told TheWrap last week that Bob is "definitely a liar," adding, "I'm not going to comment on whether or not he's a government spy, but James is a great actor, and he is definitely mysterious. And that's deliberate. He has very good manners, and that seems to be working for him."
On Sunday's episode, Bob stopped being polite. But that doesn't mean he started being real.
- Boys in the Band opened in New York in April 1968 and had a huge impact. It's appropriate Bob might come up at this point. I think he's for real. Maybe he is Don's son - something weird is up.
- Why he'd pretend to be gay or sexually attracted to Pete makes no sense. It's 1968. Not much of a joke.
- Did any of you catch Manolo Colón quickly check out Pete's ass while Pete was bent over his desk, cutting a check? Why or how Pete suddenly became the gay man's hearttrob is beyond me.
- It's a small part, but I really enjoy Ray Abruzzo's performance as the boot-licking Park Avenue doorman.
Can you imagine just wanting to come and go and constantly being stopped by overeager small talk?
"Wow, you look fine and dandy today! I see you've got an umbrella! Pretty smart! They didn't call for rain today, but you never know!"
It was his overeagerness to do everything simultaneously that got those keys into Sally's hands.
- [quote]Did I somehow mix a bunch of subtext leading up to this revelation?
The behavior we all interpreted as ass-licking for office politics (getting Pete coffee every day) was actually ass-kissing in anticipation of ass-kissing.
- [quote]The crucial moment in Sunday's "Mad Men" was Sally Draper's terrible discovery of her father having an affair with his neighbor -- but the episode also slipped in a tantalizing new clue about Bob's mysterious motives.
Don's "having an affair" is not how I'd describe what poor Sally saw.
- For me, Sally catching her dad in the act wasn't just Don finally getting caught, it was how they showed his cheating thru Sally's eyes. Up until last night all of Don's affairs were shot rather sensually...beautiful woman laying in bed afterwards, curved leg sticking out from under the sheets, Don and his barrel chest putting on a dress shirt and straightening his tie...they were always stylized versions.
Not last night though...when Sally caught them, they just looked like a couple of regular schlubs clumsily pawing at each other lol...hair messy, shirt untucked. It really drove home the reality of his actions. They aren't these sensual, stylized encounters...they're just two 40 yr old people going at it in a clumsy, awkward fashion.
- Poor Sally. Scarred for life.
- Stan looked hot in bed, who was in bed with him?
- [quote]Stan looked hot in bed, who was in bed with him?
- [quote]Not last night though...when Sally caught them, they just looked like a couple of regular schlubs clumsily pawing at each other lol...hair messy, shirt untucked. It really drove home the reality of his actions. They aren't these sensual, stylized encounters...they're just two 40 yr old people going at it in a clumsy, awkward fashion.
True. And he looked awful - clammy, flabby, pale, old.
- Don's "this never happened" mantra is going to fuck up Sally
- Oh, Sally, get over it.
She already knows Don fucked women other than her mother, and she didn't like Megan anyway.
Her reaction is not plausible.
- [quote]She already knows Don fucked women other than her mother
Who other than Megan, his wife?
- Sally asked her babysitter in season four if she was sleeping with Don.
- Knowing it and seeing it are two different things. I know people get murdered; it would mess me up if I saw someone getting murdered.
- [quote]She already knows Don fucked women other than her mother, and she didn't like Megan anyway.
Knowing/suspecting it is not the same as seeing it in action. I was about Sally's age when I discovered that my dad was cheating on my mom, and I was not thrilled with this development, but I didn't learn of it by catching my dad in the act. That would have been a million times worse. Jesus.
Also—Sally likes Megan as much as she likes any adult right now. Granted, that's not very much, but I'm sure she's not eager to see Megan—a known, not-terrible quantity—and her dad split up, allowing god-knows-whom to become Stepmother #2.
- I was really surprised when Bob went after Pete and of course it scared Pete to death...so he acted like a rude church lady.
- It was so normal for men to deny what was really obvious...it used to drive their wives crazy.
- Remember Don had Betty seeing that psychiatrist and then having him report back. He tried to make Betty think she was crazy so she wouldn't be sure if he was cheating or not. He is a bastard and in a way I am glad Sally foud out he is not a hero.
- If Sylvia's going over Don's balcony, she can't bgo fast enough.
Don's most tedious mistress ever. Ugh.
- R123, the spot on observation R109 made about the actual act Sally saw Don and Sylvia having can be implied to their affair, or at least to the way it was presented to us. It was never meant to be glamorized, but to be seen as part of the rather dead end state Don’s in.
- I felt dirty when Sally walked in on them and completely understood Sylvia's anguish. Don just seemed like a loser. Didn't anyone notice Ham's pubes?
My nephew is a dead ringer for Mitchell.
- Don may have lost Sally forever, but at least his secret son is family!
- Sylvia is such a wimpering, pathetic, judgemental, hypocritical mess. Worst character ever.
- All some of you ever do on these Mad Men threads is whine and whine about Don's wives and mistresses.
- On next week's episode, I hear Peggy's cat leaps off the balcony and lands on it's feet.
- I really wanted it to be Megan or Dr. Rosen who caught Don and Sylvia for a big blow up. I think Sally will now be sullen and difficult w/ her parents and steps because she won't be able to be honest about what she saw for fear of making it worse.
Wonder if Mitchell will get the note and put the moves on Sally. Wouldn't that be dandy? Don or Sylvia seeing the kids make-out and not being able to vocally disapprove because of the threat of blackmail?
The last season's episode better not be of Sally taking forever to park a car across the street from a diner either.
- I hope Sally blabs to Betty. My God that would be priceless!
Loved the doorman calling everyone High fashion models. Agree that was a lovely touch.
- I once caught my father fooling around with one of my Mom’s best friends. I was younger than Sally so my reaction was not as dramatic. Plus, he never saw me, so there was no “Sally… SALLY!” moment or fist banging against the bed.
I was simply confused. I knew about intimacy – if not straight out sex - but couldn’t understand what my dad was doing (he was sucking her tits) and why her eyes were closed (“is she asleep?”). So of course I went to my older brother with all these questions. He didn’t believe me and told me to stop making stuff up (maybe he was lost with the whole oral twist as well).
To say I was scarred for life by that event would be a huge exaggeration. My phys ed teacher, however...
- [quote] Q. One scene from this season that will live on is the sight of Bob Benson in his summer shorts. What was it like for you to shoot that?
[quote]A. I personally am not a shorts-wearing guy. That goes for any form of shorts, beside sports shorts, that I have to wear. So for me this was like someone who’s afraid of heights bungee-jumping. I remember in fitting, we were looking at a number of shorts. These were the shortest of those shorts that we looked at.
[quote]Q. And you chose them?
[quote]A. It was done by jury. I don’t think my vote necessarily counted. And after seeing the episode and seeing the shorts, now I’m thinking about getting a pair in my closet. I enjoyed it.
So did we, Bob, so did we.
- [quote]I don’t want his juice, I want my juice!
I’ll take both their juices. Roger can watch.
- [quote]They need to do a "On the next episode of Mad Men" preview that shows the characters all doing the same thing, like picking up the phone or walking down a hallway. No variation.
LOL. Maybe a drink swigfest.
- [quote] who was in bed with him?
Why Sharon Tate of course!
- [quote]Did any of you catch Manolo Colón quickly check out Pete's ass while Pete was bent over his desk
Of course, as it wasn’t that quick and it certainly wasn’t that subtle. For all the sublime nuances and accurate detail Weiner is praised for, when it comes to sexuality, he really hits us in the head with it. The Benson knee tango and the Doctor Rape scene are other examples of sexual moments that seemed a little too rash and unrealistic.
- Good Lord R103 - BOYS IN THE BAND opened in 1968 as well?
Is 1968 the most culturally turbulent/relevant years EVER?!?!
- Now I want Bob Benson to go over the balcony so I can hear Don say, "I love my dead, gay son!"
Yes, I'd indulge the "Bob Benson is Don's son" and the "Someone is going over that balcony. I just know it!" loonies if Weiner gave us that moment.
- I hope Weiner doesn't open the Pandora's Box of Homo to then discard it and the gay character in the next episode. He did it with Sal and he could do it with Bob since wasn't it already stated that he is going to be on the Chevy account in Detroit? If they do get rid of Bob it would deprive the show of a particularly important historical moment to explore as we are approaching Stonewall times. We have seen how women's and the black rights movements have impacted the characters on the show. The next in line would be the emerging gay movement. Weiner though has teased us before so I won't hold my breath. At least we will forever have the image of Bob Benson in his shorts as consolation. Sigh.
- [quote] As he spoke, he touched his knee to Pete's, spreading Pete's legs slightly.
He did not spread Pete's legs, r109. The motion went the other way (scroll down for GIF in link). If anything, he closed them more.
Better yet, when you look at the article you posted, the sentence is simply "he touched his knee to Pete's."
Are you in the habit of revising original articles or did Tim Molloy (the article's author) edit himself later when he realized his mistake?
- OOPS, I meant to address my post to r102. r109 was actually quite insightful and nothing short of brilliant.
- I'm guessing that Bob is gay and wasn't being manipulative. Joan is obviously his knowing hag, as we witnessed a few weeks ago.
- Yes, R 109, very insightful. We're beginning to see Don not only thru Sally's eyes, but other people too. The younger people at the office, maybe Meghan, too. They're stripping away the glamour from Don Draper's façade.
Getting drunk, unable to hold his liquor, puking at the funeral, etc. Getting challenged by Ted. Having Joan bust his chops in public. The Ted challenge was a serious challenge. That was not some Pete Campbell whining.
At some point, I have to wonder, if Don proves consistently ineffectual, will Roger abandon him. I can see Roger acting condescending, and moving on, as Don becomes a bore.
- Is Pete still married or just seperated from his wife? I notice he's still wearing his wedding ring.
- Expecting that Sally will show up at one of our meetings eventually.
- Not to mention all those put-downs he's been the subject of in his liaisons. They all surmount to "you are not as hot and/or as in control as you think you are."
His disheveled look trying to chase after Sally was very symbolic.
- Don falling in the pool while in California...doesn't Roger see that he is falling apart?
I would not be surprised if in the end, Don really is falling out his office window.
- R141, he must have edited it later.
I made no changes to the original article as I posted it.
- Thanks r102. And wouldn't we be untrue to DL form if we didn't call him on it?
- You didn't see any Hamm ass or pubes. You could, however, catch a glimpse of the briefs he was wearing for his "bottomless" scene as he was pulling up his boxers and pants.
- Maybe Pete is a thoughtful bottom who recognizes the importance of fiber, and turned down Bob because he was out of Raisin Bran.
- But was it Post or Kellogg's Raisin Bran?
- R41 ...because Bob's a POSITIVE thinker!
- I don't get those who think Bob Benson is playing some pretend game.
- r154 don't know if you're kidding but that's a very plausible explanation, making much more simple sense than all the spy conspiracy theories scattered throughout the internet.
- What does Bert Cooper do?
- He's a principal partner, r157, who is at this point neither an accounts guy nor creative. Not just a figurehead, but the voice of wisdom that only comes from having been in the industry the longest out of all the partners.
- I never found it particularly realistic that Bert Cooper would still be around due to his age and after all of the changes and mergers.
It’s probably that MW likes the actor and keeps writing small scenes for the character to keep him around.
- Actually I find it realistic that would keep "the god Bert Cooper" around. Those top old guys do nothing all day.
- r149 he responded to my bitchy inquiry and was very sweet. He did indeed edit the article after he realized he "misremembered." Thanks for helping get that clarified!
though I feel kinda small because I was DL crass and he was nice.
- The actor who plays Bert Cooper is Robert Morse. He starred in a hit play, How To succeed in Business without Really Trying.
Rarely does one describe a 79-year-old man as "boyish" (and actually mean it), but the phrase fits Robert Morse like a comfortable pair of shoes. His hair may be gray, but the impish personality, young countenance and modified Beatles haircut still remain from when he catapulted to Broadway stardom and his first Tony Award nearly 50 years ago in the Frank Loesser-Abe Burrows musical "How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying."
Morse went on to star in such films as "The Loved One" (1965) and "A Guide for the Married Man" and the film version of "How to Succeed," both from 1967.
"He is boyish," agrees "Mad Men" executive producer and creator Matthew Weiner, who cast Morse in the Emmy Award-winning series as the Ayn Rand-loving, bow-tie-wearing and often shoeless advertising giant Bertram Cooper, founding partner in the Madison Avenue ad agency Sterling Cooper. In the season beginning July 25, he is a founding partner in the new agency Sterling Cooper Draper and Pryce.
"He is just naturally playful, a youthful eccentric," Weiner says. "He is an original."
When Morse learns his visitor has followed his career since she was a kid in the 1960s, he breaks into a wide grin.
"Did you have a crush on me?" he asks.
"Darn it," he replies.
Morse, who also won a Tony 20 years ago for his uncanny depiction of Truman Capote in "Tru," is grateful at this point in his long career to get a show like "Mad Men."
"I had no idea of what I was getting into," says Morse, relaxing in an office at the studios in downtown Los Angeles where "Mad Men" films. When he read for Weiner, the actor says, "he said to me, 'I'm so grateful that you came in. I wanted somebody of your age and that background.' I read and went home and they called me and said I got the part. I was elated."
Morse was also elated he didn't have to grow Cooper's goatee and mustache. "They attach it," he says with his impish grin. "You know those things cost a lot of money. Thank God I didn't have to grow them because I am very uncomfortable with a beard and a goatee. I would be afraid my children wouldn't recognize me."
Morse, though, still can't get over the respect paid to him on the set. Maybe too much respect. "I can't tell you how many times I have to tell people not to call me 'sir' on the set of 'Mad Men,' " he says, laughing. "I say 'sir' was my father's name."
Wednesday evening, Weiner will host a screening of "How to Succeed," which opens the Los Angeles Conservancy's Last Remaining Seats movie series that spotlights the glorious old movie palaces on Broadway. Morse and the film's costar, Michele Lee, who took over the romantic lead of Rosemary on Broadway, are scheduled to reunite for the sold-out event at the Los Angeles Theatre.
The film version, adapted and directed by David Swift, was not a huge financial hit despite good reviews and an iconic performance by Morse as J. Pierrepont Finch, an ambitious young man who works his way up in record time from window washer to mailroom clerk to executive at the World Wide Wicket Co. Also in the cast is Rudy Vallee, reprising his Broadway role as the company president, J.B. Biggley.
Of course, Morse has gone full circle from being the young executive in 'How to Succeed" to the veteran executive in "Mad Men," which like the musical is set in early 1960s New York, though the stage show is much lighter than the TV series.
The connection was not lost on Weiner, though he admits he hadn't seen the film in a long time when he cast Morse. In fact, it was a former co-executive producer on the series who brought up Morse's name. "We were looking for someone kind of eccentric," Weiner says. "I cast actors all the time, and you see how he has the presence and showmanship. He has really warmed to the sort of darker side of the characters."
It was Loesser's "Where's Charley?," in which Ray Bolger sang the standard "Once in Love With Amy," that inspired Morse to become an actor.
He remembers seeing "Where's Charley?" for the first time like it was yesterday, not more than 60 years ago. "Watching Ray Bolger singing all the Frank Loesser songs…. I knew I wanted to be an actor," Morse says.
"I was just shaken completely. I saw it 17 times. I finally met Roy Bolger backstage. He was very kind to me. I remember to this day him saying if I ever get to do a show to be kind to people who are standing outside the stage door. 'If you can give them a little hand or a talk' — I always tried to share that kindness that I got originally from Ray Bolger."
- Short answer R138 : Yes.
- Appreciated the suggestion of Hamm's ass and those meaty thighs, even if the scene was skeevy.
- Well, Weiner says Bob's "not necessarily gay" (though certainly attracted to Pete).
- So maybe he plays both sides, but IMO, he's gay. I hope that Manolo will get a stay of execution. Pete doesn't realize how fortunate they were to get Manolo. So what if Mom fantasizes about him being her lover. As long as Pete is sure that Manolo is not doing inappropriate things, sexually molesting a mental incompetent, then let be, Pete.
- Weiner is always coy, if not outright dishonest, about where the show is going. I would take that phrasing with a huge grain of salt.
- Silvia, when it all gets too much for you, just remember I'm here for you.
You've been through such a trying time, I know it's just too much to cope with. But I'm here, waiting for you.
A floor higher than yours . . .
- I want Stan and Bob in me, quite deeply.
- Mitchell makes me want to be a teenage girl again. (I'm a gay man.) So glad he's actually 19.
- I bet Weiner drops the whole "Bob is gay" storyline, never to be heard again.
- [quote]I bet Weiner drops the whole "Bob is gay" storyline, never to be heard again.
Yeah, gays have a way of just ... disappearing in the wind on that show, even when they lose the homophobic client who ordered their termination.
- [quote]Well, Weiner says Bob's "not necessarily gay" (though certainly attracted to Pete).
It may have nothing to do with sexual attraction. Bob may have some sort of bizarre reverse-geisha-girl thing going: he'll do anything possible to be "of service" to his man, regardless of his personal wants and needs. God only knows what kind of history and psychology could cause this type of behavior -- possibly daddy issues, much like Don's but manifested in a wholly different fashion -- but the better question is why he glommed onto Pete, of all people, instead of the much cuter Kenny or the much more charismatic Don. Is it because Bob has some sort of pathological need to provide support for "the loser"? (and if anyone is the perpetual Charlie Brown trying to kick Lucy's football on this show, it's Pete)
Or maybe he's totally gay and, having repressed it for so long, is unleashing 15 years or so worth of pent-up sexual urges onto the *only* guy in his life that he thinks would even *consider* letting Bob have his way with him. (For argument's sake, we will overlook the fact that the Stonewall riots are right around the corner -- and one wonders whether they'll show up on the show next season -- and that Bob could easily access an active, albeit down-low, gay scene in the Village by this point.)
- r174, you do realize these are soap opera characters and not real people, don't you? Just thought I'd check.
- Weiner isn't making any sense re: Bob.
- Weiner hates gays and is very uncomfortable with Bob as a character.
- Does anyone think Manolo is really servicing the dotty dowager Mrs. Campbell in her bedroom? Or, is it her imagination?
What about the line Bob said at Joan's apartment about how Pete has a summer spread somewhere? Is he really such a climber that he'd try to ingratiate himself in order to live large on Pete's coattails?
- Weiner doesn't hate gays. He just doesn't know how to write for them. He likes them for "texture" and hipness points, much like his black characters. But none of them occupy a major story line.
- Good point...
- It's really hard to believe that there were no openly gay men in advertising, even in 1968. I realize it was still a straight boys club back then, as were most industries, but I think advertising has always drawn gay men, especially to the art departments. Is there even an art department at Sterling, Cooper and Partners?
- Of course there is , R181. Stan is an art director. But ad agency art departments aren't necessarily gayer than copy or media or accounts.
- R181: Stan is the head of the art department.
- It seems to me that Bob was putting himself way out there, far beyond what the typical gay guy at the time might chance.
Pete's subsequent obtuseness points to the obstacles faced by gay men at the time.
- [quote]Is there even an art department at Sterling, Cooper and Partners?
Sal used to be their art director, so yes, the SCDP art department is no stranger to the homosex. Peggy, Stan and Goldberg are now the main "creatives," aside from obviously Don and Ted. Pete and Ken are the main account execs. Bert and Roger are essentially account men emeritus, as is (arguably) the Harry Hamlin character. Harry is the perpetually underappreciated media planner and founder/head of SCDP's television department (as in deciding where on television to place ads). Joan is effectively managing partner without the formal title, having effectively taken it over from Lane, but is attempting to dip her toe into account management via the Avon campaign.
In reality, an agency that size would have a much larger creative department and many more account execs, particularly junior execs (which may be what Bob is supposed to be, except we've never seen him either in a client meeting or trying to bring in new business, which is how junior execs get ahead). They'd also probably have media buying and planning broken up into two different departments, and certainly have more than one guy running the whole show (we've never seen anyone but Harry do it, but his focus is TV; we have no clue who places magazine, newspaper or outdoor ads, or if that's part of Harry's job but we never actually see it).
- Tom and Lorenzo blow all the other recappers away with their breakdown of pre-Stonewall gay culture and how someone like Bob Benson fits perfectly inside it.
- Matthew Weiner himself doesn't seem like he's 100% straight. He just doesn't.
- Of course Bob Benson is gay, there should be no doubt in any of our minds about it, no matter what Weiner says. Bob was testing the waters with Pete. Why Pete and not Ken? Because Pete is a whiney, needy diva who swings from smug elation at "outsmarting" people and finessing clients, to the "poor me, I'm being mistreated" guy.
Pete, the self satisfied braggart, who cheats and then feels sorry for himself because his wife threw him out. Pete, who feels so over burdened because the bill's come due with his senile old mother, and he has to figure out how to take care of her. Pete the selfish, entitled, spoiled little boy who's siblings walked away from him.
So yeah, I can understand why Bob would hit on Pete. Bob also sees an advantage in "helping" Pete. He's learning about upper management's internal politics and Advertising business, and finds Pete instructive whether Pete is failng or succeeding.
Read "The Prince" by Machiavelli. It was really popular back then with high school and college kids. It was "in vogue." So was "The Prophet" for the Hippie types. Later generations, in the 80's would embrace The Art of War as their business primer, but The Prince was the "go to" book back then.
- [quote] is unleashing 15 years or so worth of pent-up sexual urges onto the *only* guy in his life that he thinks would even *consider* letting Bob have his way with him.
That characterization would apply more to closeted Sal, not Bob, who has shown signs (more apropos for his times) of being socially gay(outside of his job).
Read Tom And Lorenzo's Mad Style for this episode, for an excellent in-depth analysis of Bob's "gayness."
- Let's face it, Pete is a prissy little bitch. I can't blame Bob for thinking he was closeted and in denial.
The Unlovable Pete Campbell should have taken Bob up on the offer. Who else will worship him and love him unconditionally? It's the '60s, Pete--love the one you're with.
Plus, Bob's even more adorable than Trudy.
- [quote]Let's face it, Pete is a prissy little bitch. I can't blame Bob for thinking he was closeted and in denial.
Plus, he's a dandy, well accessorized dresser in the advertising industry who is recently separated, lives in a studio apartment with a prominent bed, and fusses after his mother. How much gayer can you get? Caftans?
- Somehow, R191, I pictured Pete in a dashiki-like caftan and espadrilles in his tacky little apartment, drinking by himself. Dialing the escort ads in the back of the Village Voice. He opens the door and the hustler is....MANOLO!
- R189, thank you for sharing that link. That was a fantastic analysis.
- Another thanks to R189.
- Elizabeth Moss now looks like Sandra Bernhard in bleached blonde hair.
Starts at 3:30
- It makes no sense.
It should be Ken.
Ken pings, is hot, thin and neat, and is an artistic type (writer).
- The heart wants what it wants, R196. Or not. Bob's still a bit murky.
Don't despair. It's not too late for Bob and speed-freak Ken Gosgrove to do the homosex.
- This is the first time Don LIED (deliberatively, and in a major way) to one of his kids. Early on, he said he would never lie to them.
- I have Best Little Boy in the World Syndrome and am closeted in the NYC business world, and I immediately gravitated to Ken. And I don't even like blondes.
- Although born in 1956 I think Sally's going to be a hippie, then punk when it comes into the USA in the 70's. I knew so many trust-fund fucked-up-by-family people like her (and myself) during the USA punk years. Damaged people, this entire generation.
- R196 - Sal came on to Ken.
- r198 - Right. While speaking to Sally drunk-faced through her door with Megan in the next room, he should have detailed exactly what had happened in case she hadn't gotten a good enough view and included a history of his other jump-offs, just for context.
- A psychiatrist analyzes a traumatized Sally Draper
- R192 - I want you to start writing for the show. That's the Mad Men I want to watch.
- IKR r204 I loved r192 & what he wrote.
- R125 is the NEPHEW TROLL!
- [quote]btw, what kind of name is "Chaough"? French?
Norwegian Catholic, of course.
- Thank you for that excellent article, R189, made perfect sense. I wondered why someone would fall for Pete, but this explained it perfectly:
"Bob doesn’t know all the various ways in which Pete has been an utter shit the last 6 seasons, from raping that nanny to shitting all over Peggy’s self-esteem, to petulantly blowing up his marriage because he was mad at his Father-in-law. To Bob Benson, Pete is a fussy, droll, highly emotional, well-dressed, slightly effete, old-money WASP who left his wife, frets over his mother, and just recently started smoking pot. It’s the Niles Crane effect."
- Anyone else see the irony of Madison Ave making people think they need to watch a show that's about Madison Ave making people think they need to purchase certain products?
- Is there a pic of Bob in his summer shorts?
- Oh sorry....I found one.
- Everyone thanking me can also thank a) Tom and Lorenzo by posting on their blog b) r186 who actually provided the link before. I hadn't refreshed so I didn't know I was duping.
- What Ted's name means.
- I've been having dirty thoughts about the actor who plays Stan?
- I don't know, R214, have you?
- I was not aware of James Wolk before Mad Men and now I really want him on my face in the worst way. God, is he ever my type.
- Matthew Weiner Kills the Internet's Favorite Mad Men Conspiracy Theory
Two weeks ago the Internet came up with what seemed at the time like an airtight Mad Men conspiracy theory: Megan Draper was Sharon Tate, and just like Tate, Draper too was going to die.
Well, as it turns out, the Internet had this one all wrong. Crazy, right?
The LA Times' was in attendance for a round table with Mad Men creator Matthew Weiner, and decided to get the skinny on the theory straight from the Showrunner's mouth:
Yes, Sharon Tate wore that T-shirt, but that was just my costume designer Janie Bryant and I solving an argument. Women's T-shirts had not come into fashion. I always wanted Megan in a Disneyland T-shirt and Janie kept saying, 'They're not around yet.' So I said, 'There's got to be a women's T-shirt,' and Janie brought [the photo of Tate] in and asked, 'Is this OK?' And I said, 'Yes. I want that exact T-shirt.' Little did I know ...
Weiner goes a step further, guaranteeing that not only is Jessica Pare's job safe for the time being, but that, at least as far as this season is concerned, "no one’s going to die."
Maybe that's because... they're already dead.
- Well OK then. But it still doesn't address the Don Draper death-theme hallucination at the California party scene with the dead soldier guy when Megan said something like "I live here now."
- When Don was hallucinating Megan saying "I live here now," his subconscious was remembering that she said those words to him earlier in the episode when she was on the phone talking to him, upset about the DNC riots in Chicago.
- I think Meghan is plotting to move to Hollywood. Don will come home one day to find her gone.
- "My costume designer." Hate it when bosses talk like that. Whatever happened to our" costume designer? Or is Janie Bryant designing outfits exclusively for this megalomaniac's closet?
It bothers me enough when employees refer to company ideas, services, products, supplies or employees in singular possessive or subject forms ("I have it in three colors", "My roadside assistant will help you", "I ship it in one day") - unless they're taking ownership of a situation ("my plane, my call", "I will make sure you get that tray delivered", "no cell phones in my classroom") - but what's even worse and highly indicative of the tyrannical work environment you can expect, is a boss/owner/CEO using those same modifiers.
- If Meghan goes to California, I could see Don happily going with her. He always seems more at peace there.
Maybe this is where the series is going, the slow killing of Don Draper, so that Dick Whitman can be happy in California.
At this point, Sally would gladly pack their bags.
- How did Pete not know the cereal box was almost empty? He lives alone!
- [quote] It bothers me enough when employees refer to company ideas, services, products, supplies or employees in singular possessive or subject forms ("I have it in three colors
I like when you ask the waitress what the soup of the day is..."I have chicken and stars"...
The guy who stocks the freezer section in our market always says "I have.." when he's telling me what is on sale.
- r221 he might be a tyrant (we don't know) but I think he means it as a "my family" kind of thing. And MM is a family, it's a great show, he's the CEO of that MM biz. It certainly is better than, say, if some said "the" imho, because there's no sense of belonging.
This is just my interpretation.
- James Wolk really was born to play the "best little boy in the world".
- Preview of tomorrow's MM episode just posted on their fb page.
Thoughts? In the comments people are saying Megan's not wearing her ring.
- I can't believe there are only two episodes left. This season really flew by!
- The proper way to evoke that family feeling, r225, is by using the team "we." Anything else is either impersonal or tyrannical.
- When Jim Parsons won a Golden Globe for Best Actor in a Comedy he caught himself thanking "my" writers, and almost as immediately apologized in a self-deprecating way, saying later that was very crass of him.
He managed to get a laugh from the moment - which was an added bonus.
This from an already Emmy winner. Good move, classy guy.
- r138 I agree
- r187 Yeah, I think he is a closet case. Hence him writing gay characters so poorly.