That's a toughy. Hayward is the better actor. But I'm partial to Miss Baxter.
Hayward would win in an all-out, no-holds-barred brawl, in which Baxter would lose a couple of teeth and maybe her ear. Baxter would probably do something sneaky and underhanded, like poison her or a long period of time or set up an elaborate blackmail or gaslighting scheme to get her.
Never could stand Baxter.
They both chewed the scenery, but Hayward was far better at it.
I'd go with Susan, too. But she has always been one of my favorites from the fifties so I'm partial. I have always found Anne Baxter to be a little too artificial, although that worked in her favor in All About Eve.
Susan Hayward as Jane Froman and Susan Hayward as Lillian Roth beat out anything ever done by Anne Baxter.
OTOH, Anne Baxter, as rich aristocrat Victoria Cabot, in the TV series "Hotel" brought a delightful and campy cheesiness to the show.
I thought that Anne Baxter was tremendous as Sophie in "The Razor's Edge", but was never otherwise impressed with her -- the weak link in "All About Eve", though her mannered performance worked for that character.
Susan Hayward was prettier, but essentially a soap opera actress (which is a perfectly respectable type, just not real versatile).
I do enjoy watching them both -- very good at what they do, whenever I'm in the mood for that kind of thing.
Anne Baxter is a twitchy hoot in an old big valley episode.
Hayward any day, any time.
She was tougher than rusty nails and could give you tetanus if she rasped against you. Baxter always was a phony caught up in a gauzy gas of her self-opinion. Hayward never tried to fool herself.
That meant she had heart, too. She knew what was in her and sympathized with what other people had going on inside themselves. Baxter spent so much time inflating herself that she saw other people as obstacles to her success. Eve wasn't that far off. Oh, she softened some later on, but mention Marilyn Monroe around her and she got hysterical with envy. Monroe didn't DESERVE the fame. Monroe didn't have the TALENT Baxter had. That's how the weak bitch talked.
So, yes, Hayward. Baxter would shit her pants just watching how Hayward stripped off a glove.
Hayward was better actress but Baxter got the better movies.
Hayward, hands down.
Baxter was a midget, so Susan would win in a heartbeat. But Susan's acting skills were pretty minimal. She could only shake her head and hold it up high, and that was pretty much a guaranteed gesture in every role she ever played. Considering she never had much stage experience, she always seems to be playing to the last row of the second balcony! Larger than life, but kinda phony.
Neither one of those bitches could compare to me!
Is it true that Susan hated the gays???
You'd be nobody without me, Helen.
Yes r15, there was a little something about her not liking "sissies" on her imdb profile. Well it was the olden days, and she liked her men tough, can't really fault her for that when most of us feel the same. The homophobia is just dated now.
From "RED, The Tempestuous Life of Susan Hayward":
Susan and Ron Nelson had a mutual friend who was gay and a man of excellent character. (She had never really decided what she thought of homosexuals, but had in practice, liked many gay individuals.) One day in front of this man, she said to Nelson about him, "I don't want to be bothered by that f***king queer". The man was shattered by the gratuitous cruelty. Later she appealed to Ron: "I have done that all of my life, and I don't like myself when I do that. How can I make it up to him?" Ron said, "The only thing you can do is call him on the telephone and say you're sorry. Tell him what you told me, "There's only one reason I could have done that, because I'm not a very nice person." Susan did precisely that and she and the man became fast friends once again. It was like a learning or unlearning process, a kind of therapy, drunken as it became, for all the stoic armor she had acquired.
That was one thing I could like about Susan Hayward: her ego wasn't so inflated she couldn't admit when she was wrong!
Yes, Hayward was tough as nails but her lovely and elegant performance as Jane Froman in With a Song in My Heart (abetted by the real Froman's own singing voice) was wonderfully rich and poignant. There's no hard edge there except in showing the character's steely determination to survive her injuries.
When she sings to the gorgeous young battle-scarred Robert Wagner Embraceable You, I cry buckets every time.
Hell, I even tear up at the USA medley at the film's finale.
r18, that is a great passage and should be spread around so that all these non-apology apologies we experience these days from celebrities who have spouted homophobic and/or racist comments can learn something.
Face it. A lot of those old actresses were not as accepting and loving of gays like Joan & Bette and Judy.
That's why we worship them so much now.
And here's Hayward as Lillian Roth singing the fabulous "When the Red Red Robin Comes Bob Bob Bobbin' Along" from I'll Cry Tomorrow.
That's her own voice and her own flailing arms!
What's not to love?
Let me say the about R22's post. I think Joan and Bette and Judy had made anti-gay comments throughout their lives. They were all-including Susan-a product of their generation. Besides Susan apologized, something I can't ever seeing the likes of Bette Davis doing.
THAT explains it, R25. Both were born in Brooklyn too.
Lena vs Susan. Who would win?
I seriously doubt Joan ever made anti-gay comments.
Billie Haines was her nearest and dearest friend a actively supported him and partner Jimmy Shields.
"[What Ever Happened to Baby Jane has] become a cult favorite, not just for the fag-hounds that will go to anything Bette Davis appears in, but to civilized audiences that recognize a movie for what it's worth...I'm damned glad I'm not being represented in fag circles..."
Joan Crawford circa 1973
Does that sound rather anti-gay, R29?
As far as a Lena-Susan match is concerned, it would be a draw!
"O Mohohohohohohohohohoses, you, stubborn, splendid, adorable fool!”
Here's a question:
I love Susan Hayward in I'll Cry Tomorrow. In fact I thought she should have won the Oscar in 1955, rather than Anna Magnani. My only complaint about Susan Hayward was she looked NOTHING like Lillian Roth.
Judy Holliday, on the other hand, bore a facial resemblance to Roth. In fact, put a dark wig on Holliday, and they almost could pass for sisters.
Does anybody here think Judy Holliday could have done justice to I'll Cry Tomorrow?
Susan Hayward was my mother's favorite actress so I am partial to her. She was able to bring a realism to her roles that was uniquely hers.
And that film clip does make me tear up. As "hokey" as it might seem, those songs meant the world to those soldiers as they went off to fight and die. In fact, any old war movies or scenes with soldiers being entertained can evoke strong emotions. It was a more innocent time, a more idealistic time, a more naive time, I guess. Many entertainers who performed for the troops were the only respite those fellows had from the horrors of their everyday experiences. In every old film clip of ACTUAL troop shows (such as Bob Hope or even Marilyn singing for the troops in Korea), the soldiers are hollering and whooping and hanging on every word. And generations of soldiers, those lucky enough to come back home, would remember those USO shows as the brightest spots in their entire military careers.
I love Judy Holliday and her energy on screen was very much a feistiness mixed with pathos, which one would think would be perfect to portray Lillian Roth.
But somehow Judy still seems all wrong for the type of schlocky (but fabulous!) bio-pic that Hollywood was making in the 1950s. She was really too talented for the material.
Susie OTOH was perfect for that genre.
Reminds me Judy Holliday was preparing to play Laurette Taylor on stage, when she had to deal with her first bout with breast cancer and had to pull out. It's sad. She might have had the opportunity to do something completely different.
Speaking of Judy, I wish she had lived long enough to have co-starred in something with Madeline Kahn. That might have been an interesting combo.
Susan Hayward was born Edith Marriner.
It's funny that Hollywood changed her name to Susan as it was not a popular name when she arrived there in the late 1930s and was still mostly just associated with Victorian battleaxe Susan B. Anthony.
Of course, because of Hayward's huge popularity with audiences, the name Susan quickly became one of the most popular names for American baby-boomer girls in the 1940s and 50s.
r39, this is purely an aside and off-topic: a friend of mine is named Gregory and was born in 1963, so we looked up the popularity of his name on the Social Security database and discovered that the name Gregory really started zooming up the chart in the late 1940s -- coinciding with the emergence of Gregory Peck as a popular star -- and peaked in the top 20 in 1963 -- which also happened to be the year Gregory Peck won the Academy Award.
Hayward experienced a big "comeback" of sorts in the early 1960s when Saturday Night at the Movies premiered on NBC. It was the first prime time TV show featuring old films.
The program owned the 20th Century catalogue from the 1950s when Hayward was under contract to the studio. I Want to Live, With a Song in My Heart and I'll Cry Tomorrow all premiered on TV as well as Hayward's lesser known titles The President's Lady (as Rachel Jackson to Charlton Heston's Andrew Jackson), White Witch Doctor (on African safari with Robert Mitchum)and My Foolish Heart (opposite Gregory Peck and based on a JD Salinger short story).
And what about Anne Baxter?
Nothing ever came close to Susan Hayward. Robbed of the Oscar in 1955's I'll Cry Tomorrow, she instead got the compensatory award for I Want to Live! three years later. Those 'Tomorrow' scenes with her going back and forth with 'mom' Jo Van Fleet were incredible. Van Fleet got the supporting Oscar that year, but not for 'Tomorrow,' instead her name was called for East of Eden. Played the same name Katie in each film.
June Allyson was supposed to be Lillian Roth in I'll Cry Tomorrow. Van Fleet and Richard Conte would have had a field day with her. Luckily, common sense prevailed and Susan landed the much coveted part of Lillian Roth.
There must have been a thunder of applause when Anne Baxter received the best supporting actress Oscar as the tragic Sophie in 1946's "The Razor's Edge." What a performance she gave. I would feel sorry for the other 4 nominees in that category. Baxter deserved this award and for a change, the Academy voters did the right thing.
As for All About Eve, Baxter should have been in the supporting category. She would probably have won there as well. Josephine Hull, the supporting Oscar actress that year for Harvey, caught a break.
Patty Duke talks about working with Susan Hayward at 2:40 at YouTube clip
Baxter could be more natural in a scene than Susan, but Susan gave some really strong and imposing performances
Hayward all the way.
Hayward had several careers - from the ingenue of the 40s, to the tough adventuress of those 50s Fox films, then her 3 great acting roles (I Want to Live, I'll Cry Tomorrow, With A Song in My Heart), then in the early 60s her sudsers and romantic dramas: Ada, Back Street, Stolen Hours, I Thank A Fool, Where Love Has Gone, and then her camp comeback as Helen Lawson.
Baxter was also a 40s ingenue, and also mainly at Fox, All About Eve was the big one for her, but most of her others then were programmers and westerns until her big camp turn in The Ten Commandments, then it was back to routine movies. She has the least important role of the dames in Walk On The Wild Side in 1962.
Both of them died too young.
Eve, the eponymous heroine, is a larger role than Margo. And she's eponymous!
Don't discount Josephine Hull in Harvey!
She starred in the original hit Broadway play which won the Pulitzer over The Glass Menagerie, hard as that may be to believe. Harvey was very popular as a play and a movie.
And audiences also remembered Hutchinson from the play and movie version of another huge hit, Arsenic and Old Lace.
"the weak link in "All About Eve", though her mannered performance worked for that character."
Her mannered performance worked for that character.
Then how the fuck was she the weak link in the movie?
[quote] Harvey was very popular as a play and a movie.
Which was about an imaginary friend.
R49 seems pleased with "eponymous," as if the rubber whale in "Moby Dick" should take precedence over any of the actors.
Yes, Anne Baxter used her limited tactics to their best expression in "All About Eve." R51, she was the weak link because ultimately a better actress could have done the one thing that Baxter couldn't. She could have made Eve understandable, and therefore sympathetic.
Any nuance or shading connected to the character came from the director and other players. One could feel Sanders speaking a bitter truth about his wanting her at all - that was delivered straight to Baxter as well as to Eve.
The film ultimately was about why people are in theatre, how the big children make the greatest contributions because of their passion for life, for pretending, and finally for getting down to what is important. It is not a good reflection on Baxter that Marilyn Monroe managed to show more self-awareness with her little character than Eve did.
In the end, Eve was just the turd in the room masquerading as a gardenia. That is not what the character could have been - If the screenplay was all about Eve, it included her humanity, what made her tick. Since Baxter's great fault was an inability to portray humanity (stagey and tricksy as she was), in the end she failed, no matter how much we enjoy the movie in having her seem just a stupid conniving loser in the end.
Oh, and Hayward would have taken care of Baxter without a blink.
r26 It was the "Back Home Again in Indiana" that got me. I'm still all teared up.
"Does anybody here think Judy Holliday could have done justice to I'll Cry Tomorrow?"
"She has the least important role of the dames in Walk On The Wild Side in 1962."
That movie is a scream! It's on TCM this evening, btw
Has anyone here seen Where Love is Gone? It's one of Susan's campiest movies! So many good lines in that one.
"When you're dying of thirst, you'll drink from a mudhole!"
Ok, r53. So you don't think her mannered performance worked for the character. Or you do but just not well enough?
All I was saying is that you can't have it both ways.
I like Susie's late 40s period: TULSA, MY FOOLISH HEART, I CAN GET IT FOR YOU WHOLESALE, when she was that spunky redhead. She was great at Fox with the likes of Mitchum (THE LUSTY MEN), Gable, Cooper, Power, Calhoun etc. Then after her powerhouse roles in I WANT TO LIVE and I'LL CRY TOMORROW she re-invented herself as a soap opera favourite, up there with Lana Turner, with those camp turns in BACK STREET and the others. I really like her remake of Bette's DARK VICTORY, STOLEN HOURS made in England.
Anne Baxter's movies before and after EVE were just routine forgettable programmers. EVE and 10 COMMANDMENTS are the highlights of her career, and she is marvellous in both, but most of her other movies are forgettable and have been mainly forgotten. That silly 1950 western TICKET TO TOMAHAWK (the same year as EVE) is only notable now as Marilyn is one of the chorus girls in the background.
What other -v- can we speculate on?
Lana Turner v Rita Hayworth ?
Deborah Kerr v Jean Simmons ?
Ava Gardner v Susan Hayward ?
Doris Day v Debbie Reynolds ?
Joanne Woodward v Shirley McLaine or Lee Remick ?
Sandra Dee v Carol Lynley ?
Olivia v Joan (Fontaine) ?
I think anyone watching All About Eve for the first time would be fooled by Eve Harrington as played by Baxter in the first half of the film. She is believably sincere and humble and apparently well-meaning.
It's just once she becomes a theater star that Baxter goes into phoney-baloney mode and mannered performance.
Why didn't Lillian Roth dub Hayward's voice for I'll Cry Tomorrow as Jane Froman did for With a Song in My Heart?
Did Hayward's own singing really approximate Roth's? Judging by that clip at r23 upthread, singing "When the Red, Red Robin..." Hayward is difficult to believe as a singing star.
Fabulous in its own way, yes....but still! Surely that's what cost Hayward the Oscar that year?
I've never seen "I Confess". Is it any good?
Bette Davis worked with both women.S he loathed Hayward and loved Baxter.
Baxter was only one of four female co-stars that Davis respected. The others were Olivia De Havilland ("Hush, Hush, Sweet Charotte), Mary Astor (The Great Lie) and Gena Rowlands (Strangers: The Story of a Mother and Daughter).
While Davis said that Baxter's nomination for Best Actress cost her her third Oscar, Davis was proud that Baxter stood her ground and held out for the Best Actress nomination. Years later, Baxter said that she should have accepted the Best Supporting Actress nomination and let Davis win her third Oscar.
Davis did the pilot for the television series Hotel. When she realized that she wasn't up to doing a series, she recommended Baxter for the part of the hotel owner.
When Davis heard someone call Hayward the "Bargain Basement Bette Davis," she said "Bargain basement, definitely. Bette Davis, never." I don't think Davis and Hayward got a long on the set of "Where Love Has Gone."
Maybe Bette wanted the part Susan had in Where Love Has Gone.
Anne Baxter because she was much more beautifulllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll