- p.s.--I gave absolutely no more information this week (or have I given any more information any week) than the episode in the TV Guide channel provides, so the poster who whined about facts about episodes being spoiled in the first post of GoT threads because he hasn't read far enough in the books can go suck it.
- Very excited about tonight. This is the episode fans of the show have been waiting to see.
- Good god I hope they don't fuck it up!
- It's a nice day for a Red Wedding!
- They created the entire show with the idea of filming this particular episode in mind, so I would assume they don't fuck it up, r3. But I am actually excited about something else from this book that will apparently happen next season instead (i.e. the third of the big weddings).
- Yes we know... thread was started HOURS ago:
- I hope we get to see more of the superhot mercenary from last week who chopped the heads off his two partners and gave them to Dany. he was gorgeous. Too bad the other superhot partner is without a head now though.
- I can't believe there are no more episodes for another year after next week. I want it to be another ten episodes at least.
- Are we going to see more Diana Rigg this season? And is Diana Rigg ever going to get to meet khaleesi?
- I'm a bit surprised they didn't set this episode up more this season by showing us more about what leads up to it.
But I guess they wanted it to catch everyone off-guard.
- I hope Dany finally take the city she's been sitting outside forever waiting to conquer, and I also hope Sansa finally gets away from Joffrey and his family, which we've also been waiting forever to see.
- "But your brother [italic]will[/italic become your father-in-law, that much is beyond dispute!"
I want more of Grandma Tyrell's Genealogy Corner!
- Damn, fucked-up italics.[/italic]
Does this close them?
- Turning [/italic] off the [/italic] italics.
- So excited! About to start...
- I want lots of male nudity tonight. And no torture of Theon Greyjoy and the creepy guy holding him.
- Back to showing The Twins tonight for the credits (no surprise). They STILL keep showing Winterfell though no one has actually been there since the first episode this season--I guess it's to indicate Bran and Rickon and his party?
My favorite model city in the credits (after King's Landing) is Yunkai, with the cool harpy statue surmounting the city.
- Walder Frey is the same actor who plays the custodian in Harry Potter, no? And the actor who plays Edmure (who is very sexy) played Brutus on "Rome."
- Walder Frey testing Robb by saying those crude things about Charlie Chaplin's granddaughter was well done. But I still wonder if she is a spy (just like Megan on Mad Men).
This new stud in the Khaleesi's camp is so sexy. If that's his actual hair, it's gorgeous.
Arya standing up to The Hound was also well done.
- Hodor must be happy he no longer has to carry Bran on his back anymore! That kid's huge now.
- Bran and Sansa have posh accents while their siblings Robb and Arya have rougher accents.
- Amazing set for the city Dany and her men are sneaking into! And the swordplay was amazing.
And now we have hot shirtless men wrestling for no clear reason!
This has been an excellent episode so far.
- Is there no Tyrion & King's landing stuff this week at all?
- What was the thing Dario Naharis was carrying that he showed to Dany? Was it someone's head?
- HOLY SHIT!
- Um, holy shit!
- Are they all dead?
- That seemed... extreme.
- Walder Frey's poor wife! She certainly didn't deserve to have her throat slit.
But holy motherfucking shit that was awesome. They're all dead!
- A short episode tonight. And no closing music at all.
And I'm left here thinking "What the FUCK..."
- Well damn...
- Holy crap.
- Poor Arya. Dear God.
- She should have went after Walder Frey. Next week the Starks. Next week another king?
- More horrifying than I could imagine. That was BRUTAL!!!
- No wonder this was the episode Benioff and Weiss always wanted to do. Great closing with no music at all after the last killing.
That's three major characters dead, though it looks like Arya survived. So Roose Bolton was on the Lannister side the whole time? Why?
I hope they kill both him and Walder Frey soon. But who can assume control of the Stark armies? Those two little boys can't do it, and no one even knows they're still alive. So probably now it's just Lannisters versus Stannis.
- I cried the whole last ten minutes and after. My husband made fun of me for it. Second most upsetting episode to Season 1 episode 9.
- Robb Stark should have listened to his mom. Guess whatsername wasn't a spy after all.
- I'm unclear on one thing: The guy who got married and went off to the bedding ceremony... is he still alive?
- I can't believe what I just saw. The Greatest ending in tv show history...
- This was the first episode they've ever had where they didn't have any scenes in Kings Landing.
- So this does mean Sansa is next in line? Once she marries?
- I agree this was extreme. And it left a lot of questions open. So did Frey order all this because he is siding with the Lannisters or because he was pissed over Robb refusing to marry his daughter?
- @40, in the book Edmure is captured and imprisoned by the Freys, but the marriage is still intact.
Don't know how the tv show will play out.
Also in the book, it was a grandson that Lady Stark killed, not one of Lord Frey's wives.
This episode left me depressed.
- [quote]So did Frey order all this because he is siding with the Lannisters or because he was pissed over Robb refusing to marry his daughter?
I think a little of both.
As for Sansa, is it her or is it Bran? I imagine it's the oldest son, right? It KILLED me that he was so close to Jon Snow and didn't get to him.
Oh, and why the fuck did Jon Snow just take off with Yigritte? That totally threw me.
- Frey was clearly pissed off royally at the Starks for the insult done to him by Robb not marrying his daughter, which probably led to him joining forces with the Lannisters in killing Robb and his mother.
I don't get at all yet what Roose Bolton's motivation was for joining the Lannisters... but please don't tell me if you've read the books and already know. Those of us who haven't read the books don't want the upcoming storylines and surprises spoiled yet (even if they are varying the plot of the show a bit from the books), and I'm sure we'll find out next episode as to why he betrayed the Starks.
- [quote]So Roose Bolton was on the Lannister side the whole time? Why?
Why would the second most powerful noble House in the North want to eliminate the first? Hmmm....
- There was a long pause as what was going to happen to Mother Stark I thought maybe they would spare her. She should have known he didn't care about the daughters and granddaughters why should he care about his wife?
I'm also curious why happened to the groom?
Also I'm not a devout watcher who killed Robb?
- The succession to the head of the Stark household should now go to Bran, then Rickon, then Sansa, then Arya (Jon is illegitimate). But since the Lannisters believe Bran and Rickon are dead, they will think Sansa is the new head of the house, and because she's married to Tyrion it will go to their family.
- Bran is now the head of House Stark.
In case others were wondering, as I was, "The Rains of Castamere" is a Lannister song celebrating the elimination of House Reynes, bannermen to the Lannisters, who rebelled. It was sung before the battle at Kings Landing last season.
- [quote]She should have known he didn't care about the daughters and granddaughters why should he care about his wife?
She played the hand she was dealt.
- Roose Bolton hasn't eliminated the Starks, r48: Sansa is still alive and is now the heiress of Winterfell and head of the house so far as everyone knows in KL, and so she should be fully under Tywin Lannister's protection (and control) as his daughter-in-law. He's not going to give Winterfell and the North to Roose Bolton as long as his future grandchildren can inherit it.
- I had to piss so I missed it. Did Arya see the killings? Or did that big bastard with the burned face spare her seeing that? I know she saw them kill the wolf.
- R49 the man who stabbed Robb was one of his supposed loyal lords, Roose Bolton. Who I hope meets an awful demise at some point. Along with Walder Frey.
Tragic episode, I had a lump in my throat the whole time and when a dying Robb goes over to his wife and puts his hand on her stomach, little baby Eddard...that was just awful. And Arya being so close and witnessing Grey Wind get killed. Catelyn begging for her son's life. Well acted by both Richard Madden and Michelle Fairley.
I forget who asked about Jon and Ygritte, Jon left her behind with Tormund Giantsbane.
- You had to piss? In the middle of The Red Wedding? Seriously?
- Arya missed the killings (mercifully). It all took place in the great hall of The Twins, and they wouldn't let her and The Hound into the castle tower at all. She only saw Robb's wolf killed because that was out in the stables outside the castle tower.
- [quote]So this does mean Sansa is next in line? Once she marries?
Sansa married Tyrion Lannister last week.
- I couldnt stand the actress who played Robb's wife. She reminded me of Lea Michele and Jennifer Love Hewitt merged.
- I watch the show but I have no idea who Roose Bolton is. Reading these posts, okay, ... but even looking up his picture on line I barely recognize him. Somehow I missed the significance of this AND his name AND who he is. Which is depressing. I'm sure that would have been shocking if I'd had any clue who it was stabbing Rob Stark.
- I feel like I have PTSD. I never needed to see a pregnant woman getting repeatedly stabbed in the stomach. That was pretty unnecessary.
- What's going to happen in the finale?
- You had to pee? Should have pissed your pants.
- She wasn't really pregnant. She's an actress. This isn't real.
- R59, she's Charlie Chaplin's granddaughter.
Rollins Stone interview with Richard Madden. Just posted
[quote]'Game of Thrones' Q&A: Richard Madden on Robb Stark's Endgame
- Do you all finally know who was torturing Theon Greyjoy? At last?
- His wife wasn't supposed to die.
- Tune in next week and find out, R62.
- Please don't spoil it, r66.
- Joss Whedon is already on Twitter asking people to stop ragging him about killing his characters in the face of GoT's habits :-)
- [quote]This new stud in the Khaleesi's camp is so sexy. If that's his actual hair, it's gorgeous.
- "You know all that from staring at marks on paper? You're like... a wizard!"
- The Red Wedding (as George R. R. Martin and the book series fans call tonight's events--and as the characters come to call it) was, according to Martin, inspired by a legendary event in Scottish history in 1440 called "The Black Dinner."
Supposedly the young Earl Douglas and his brother were invited to Edinburgh Castle to have dinner with the ten year-old king, James II (their father has been the regent for years until he had died recently during the king's minority, and had pissed off the heads of other houses who wanted to smash the power of his house after his death). The heads of rival houses (one of whom was the king's chamberlain) arranged to have the head of a black bull brought before them at the end of the dinner (supposedly symbolizing in Scottish culture the death of the principal guest), and the two noble young men were put to death before the eyes of the horrified king.
- The killing of the pregnant girl (esp since not in the book) was very mean-spirited...
- Don't feel silly, r38. I started to choke up and when I went down to retrieve my chinese food delivery I had tears streaming down my face. The delivery guy looked at me like I was nuts. I figured the Red Wedding was going to be a bloodbath but I wasn't prepared for how emotional it was watching theTully's, Robb, Talisa and their baby slaughtered like pigs. I wonder if they castrated Edmure before they killed him? Yikes. Was the girl Edmure married even a Frey?
- Edmure isn't dead. He's their hostage.
- Edmure and Catelyn's uncle is still alive
- Just watched it. Didn't know what was gonna happen. I'm in shock. Yikes.
- Let's face it, Robb Stark wasn't a great leader.
- [quote]Edmure and Catelyn's uncle is still alive
And Catelyn...? Hmmmm.
- I'm amazed that there are some on this thread who STILL can't resist trying to spoil future episodes for those people who haven't read the books.
Please stop. It is really an asshole thing to do.
- I hope the very last shot in next week's season finale matches the very last scene in Book 3. I don't think they should wait until next season.
- I'm hoping that Blackfish never made it back to the banquet hall and is on his way to RiverRun to amass an army of Northerners to give the Freys, Roose Bolton and the Lannisters just what they deserve. Cutting off a different body part for every day of the week until there is nothing left but their pointy heads on even pointier pikes. I hated Jon's betrayal of Ygritte. Even if he didn't intend to abandon her by riding off after the Worg eagle, I'm thinking his relationship with her has been damaged beyond repair. I fear for Gilly's safety once they reach Castle Black. She's a wildling after all and Craster's daughter/wife. Samwell has a big heart but the other Men of the Nights Watch might not be so charitable. Killer episode and I surprised myself with how emotional I got over a tv show!
- The Red Wedding is nothing but a bloody massacre. It was almost revolting.
- But there ARE always bloody massacres in wars, r84. We saw Khaleesi perpetrate a bloody massacre in Astapor, but since it was from her point of view (and she hates slavery like we do), we saw it as a triumph rather than as "almost revolting." But it probably was revolting for the people killed in Astapor.
On HuffPost, the reviewer referred to the gorgeous Frey daughter Edmure marries as "the Marilyn Munster of the Frey clan." LOL!
- Oh please, R81. It's not like they even go by the books. Robb's wife wasn't supposed to die.
- God...I guess the name "Eddard" is quite unlucky!
- For those book readers who are whining because Cat didn't scratch out her face and talk about her hair, get over it. I thought the writing was perfect and Michelle Fairley deserves an Emmy nomination for sure.
- That scene seemed like a straight up butchery. That was truly shocking. I didn't think a TV show could still do that to me.
- I can't believe all those people in that dining hall were all chummy and sociable with the people they knew they were about to kill.
That's just some cold-blooded psychopathic behavior right there.
- I thought Roose Bolton said tonight that Walder Frey ad given him a bride too. I'd bet Roose Bolton is planning some treachery to gain control of the Frey holdings. They the Lannisters and everyone else would have to come to him if they ever wanted anything. He'd control the Twins were the rivers merge or something, right?
- The very last moment when Catelyn is standing their silence and frozen was the saddest of all because she looked like she just gave up on life at that point. Her first born son was murdered in the most horrific way and she had absolutely nothing left to life for. She looked dead before her throat was ever slit.
- [quote]Oh please, [R81]. It's not like they even go by the books.
They're mostly going by the books. By about 95%.
So let me echo the above request: Please don't spoil what happens later in the books.
- Great cinematic sword battle with Jorah, Daario and Grey Worm tonight.
- Tsk, tsk, R80.
- the Red Wedding was far more bloody in the books
- jorah was surprisingly quite hot with that sword.
- I must be in the minority, but I tonight was a much needed house cleaning. Rob Stark was boring, and I hated his wife.
In fact, let's keep going and do some wholesale pruning up around the wall.
- [quote]I never needed to see a pregnant woman getting repeatedly stabbed in the stomach. That was pretty unnecessary.
- Catelyn got her throat cut, that's pretty final.
- Because some bastard hinted at a spoiler I googled. SPOILER
Think Pet Sementary looks like we will see a certain wonderful actress again but she will be EVIL
- Rob was a little boring but we gave us some good nudity unlike his half brother Jon...
- DON'T CLICK THIS LINK, IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO KNOW WHAT HAPPENS IN THE BOOK.
- Totally agree with everything you said, R83. It's very rare for me to get emotional over a TV show. Nevertheless, I got teary during the scene where Arya saw Robb's wolf being killed and how that told her everything she needed to know about what had happened to her family. (Maisie Williams is damn talented). And, of course, Cat's final moment was just heartbreaking.
- This was the darkest episode yet. Didn't even feel like GoT but more like a horror movie. What the FUCK! That was harrowing! Poor Cat! Even if she did make it out alive, would she have ever recovered from THAT!? That was a mercy killing, as far as I'm concerned.
- I loved the smooth, elegant way Grey Worm fought. The Unsullied are badass.
- I missed it: How did Grey Worm, Mormont and the other guy beat the second round of soldiers who came out to fight?
- R107, they didn't show it.
- Read the reactions of people on Twitter over this episode. COMEDY GOLD!
- Finally, some DRAMA!
- The second round of slave soldiers in Yunkai surrendered because they had heard what had happened in Astapor.
- Reading R109's link, one wishes these idiots would muster that kind of passion for real issues.
- GOT the TV series is just a mindfuck. I don't read the books and don't care to. However, you don't meticulously set the stage for a protagonist and then brutally and suddenly kill him/her off just as your audience comes to identify with them.
And meanwhile all the rotten, conniving characters continue to get lucky breaks and prosper. That's how the real world works. I don't have to give up an hour a week to be reminded of real-world BS by a fictional story set in a fantasy realm.
I hate GOT now.
- I'm sorry but the Starks are morons!
Robb was NOT a king and didn't think like one! He broke his oath to Walder Frey and then went to his castle thinking all was forgiven...not in Westeros, buddy!
Catelyn released the Kingslayer, the best bargaining chip the Starks had! This massacre would never have gone down as long as they had Tywin's precious heir under their control!
- Did they HAVE to stab repeatedly the pregnant girl's stomach over and over?
When Robb asked her what the sex of the child was and she said she didn't I expected a bad end but NOT so soon...
- Robb is a secondary character in the books who is basically a pawn. He's not that important. The producers liked the actor and gave him more than he had in the books.
The Red Wedding is supposed to be brutal and shocking and is based on actual historic events.
- The drama queens at that link swearing they'll cancel HBO and never watch Game of Thrones again are ... morons. Jesus.
- Is Robb supposed to be young? The actor who plays him said he was 21 when he first met the producers. Imdb say he is 27 but he looks somewhat older...
- How many books will this George Martin have in this series? Will it ever end?
- [quote]And meanwhile all the rotten, conniving characters continue to get lucky breaks and prosper.
Multiple times many of "the rotten, conniving characters" on GoT have met horrible fates. Khaleesi's brother Viserys had a pot of molten gold dumped on his head. The evil warlock Pyat Pree was barbecued by dragons. Jaime Lannister had his hand lopped off. The head slaver in Astapor also got barbecued by dragons. Theon Greyjoy, who murdered the little boys at Winterfell and laid waste to the fortress, is being tortured by the mysterious young man. The incestuous Craster who gave up his sons to the Walkers was slaughtered at his Keep.
Meanwhile, there are plenty of good characters left: Tywin, Sansa, Arya, Jon, Sam, Khaleesi, etc. None of them are necessarily safe, but none of the remaining villains are safe either. People on this show die constantly--both the good characters and the bad characters.
- Martin originally said the series was going to be three books; then it became five. Then it became seven, which is his current estimate. He has written five of the seven books.
- Damn, I mean are any of the Starks going to be re united in the end? I want a damn happy ending and I know I"m not going to get it. Have all the brutal stuff happen to all the other families but leave the Starks alone! So depressing.
- Favorite tweet:
"im seriously balling right now. why game of thrones why!?!"
- Nothing in this world is certain. Nothing is solid. No one's station is secure. It's a curse at times to the characters you love, but it can also be a blessing.
- I don't think Tywin is a good character, r120! I think you mean Tyrion.
- My favorite tweet is "Why you got to play a Nigga like that Game of Thrones?" My sentiments exactly.
- More hilarious tweets. #hystericaldramaqueens
"If George Martin was in Auburn right now I'd stab him in the heart."
"I'M SHAKING. I'M CRYING. I'M BROKEN NOW. ROBB STARK MY BABY."
"IT'S BEEN HALF AN HOUR AND IM STILL THROWING UP"
"I have given birth twice to 8 & 9 pound babies. Watching Robb Stark die hurt more than both times combined."
"GAME OF THRONES WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK THOSE WERE MY HOPES AND DREAMS YOU SLAUGHTERED YOU BIG FAT ASS"
"how the fuck am i suppose to go to school and work and function after that game of thrones episode, fuck im shaking and crying "
"@1milmoms BOYCOTT GAME OF THRONES THERE WAS A STABBING OF A PREGNANT WOMAN, THROATS BEING SLIT, ANIMALS BEING SLAUGHTERED. just sick"
- I agree LEAVE the Starks alone!
- Thank you, r127...
Its nice to know some people have less a life than me...
- I read all the books and knew what wsas coming, yet I still bawled my eyes out, especially when Arya witnesses Grey Wind's dying breath and Cat's moment of profound silent sadness and resignation right before she is murdered. Oh fuck, now I'm crying again. The scene was even more upsetting than how it is in the book and it is REALLY fucking upsetting in the book.
- Re: the liist of "good" characters left in R120's post...I wonder how many on that list will be "good" by the end of the series. I mean, Tywin Lannister would've been considered "good" because he was part of bringing down the Mad King. Ditto Jaime Lannister.
I bet most of them won't be "good" by the end, the Game corrupts everyone who plays it.
- Momma Stark was right about two very important things. Never trust a Greyjoy and never trust a Frey.
The Stupid Gene seems to be a dominant trait with House Stark.
Catelyn was the only one with a bit of intelligence and that's probably because she was born a Tully.
For extra tears, rewatch the first episode of Season One when the whole Stark family are together and happy and then rewatch this episode. HA!
- Joffrey Baratheon and Walder Frey were the other two cursed with Melisandre's slugs, right? So can we look forward to two more epic revenge scenarios involving those two scum sucking vermin? That would be something to look forward to.
- Some people...just....have...no...life.
- I love Momma Stark's LAST scene when she bravely tries to save her son's life and tells him to stand up. Something a mother would do....
Does this episode make The Emmy deadline? Michelle Fairley BETTER fucking win or (( I )) will slit someone's throat...
- Where does the storyline for the Starks go from here?
The books don't leave much hope either.
- In hindsight, did Roose Bolton give Brienne to Locke because he feared she would try to avenge Lady Catelyn Stark's death if she was allowed to go to Kings Landing with Jaimie? I wonder how she will react to the news that Margaery is going to marry a Lannister. Will she pledge to protect her out of respect for the memory of King Renley?
- I didn't cry when the murders happened. For one thing, the whole internet was chatting about the upcoming "red wedding." Not hard to figure out what the red was supposed to be. And given Ned Stark's beheading in the first season, not surprising that this would be the end of the line for those left in the hall.
Oddly enough, I did cry when Bran and Rickon parted. BTW, I really like the actress playing the Wilding. She didn't do much for me in the Harry Potter movies (where she didn't have much to do any way), but I really like her in this.
So, has every actor of note in the U.K. appeared in either Harry Potter, G.O.T. and/or the Bond films?
- OK George. Once you kill off all of the characters anyone really roots for then what?
Your story eventually comes to a screeching halt and people stop caring.
- Thank you! r113 that's my point exactly! If I wanted this kind of brutal, rotton cynical, nihilistic shit I could just walk live my life day to day and watch it happen.
I've said it before. George RR Martin doesn't understand what good fiction is and how to write it.
This Red Wedding was totally predictable. So you've managed not to shock me at all only make me angry at your pornographic display of violence for violence sake. This last point is for both Martin and the producers of this show.
- Oh one more thing. I'm glad I don't pay for this show. I steal it from the Internet for free.
Fuck you Game of Thrones. A pregnant woman stabbed repeatedly. Just because shit like this happens in real life doesn't mean you need to see it on TV. Sick fucks.
- I am rending my garments as I type this, r139, r140, & r141.
- Just stepping back from all this, I want to posit something. Here's the problem I see for the future of the series. I know that GRRM's written something "different" in the sense that the "good guys" can't be counted on to survive. Referencing Ned Stark here.
That works fine in the books,and if it's used judiciously, on HBO. But with the TV series, people get invested in certain characters. They watch to see what happens to them. If Arya and Sansa and Bran bounce from one adversity to another, at some point it will exhaust fans.
If characters we like keep getting killed off and we're introduced to new characters three years into the series, it's a turn off. I just can't see how they will maintain the HBO series fanbase beyond season 4.
We still have some familiar principal characters to enjoy but I personally don't really care what happens to a Roose Bolton and I think if GRRM kills off too many people viewers will lose interest. They'll also lose interest if things remain unresolved for too long.
At some point we need to know the endgame is coming for the series and that there is some kind of resolution, some thing big and climactic and satisfying. Martin said in a recent interview the ending will be "bittersweet." I mean WTF.
- " If Arya and Sansa and Bran bounce from one adversity to another, at some point it will exhaust fans."
The Stark kids...they don't have it any easier in the next couple of books. And it is extremely frustrating for fans. GRRM is a sadistic man.
- I know the world is a cruel place and good is not highly regarded or rewarded. We read books or watch movies to escape...
I hear Georgie lives in a regular house among regular people. I hope he has good security...
- Just because he tortures his characters doesn't mean we won't get a good ending. Remember, he was only going to torture them for 3 book before giving us the satisfying ending we want. That ending was pushed back to 7 books! So we have to wait longer, but we can all predict the ending right?
What's currently going on in King's Landing won't matter once two things happen: 1) The White Walkers invade with Winter arriving. 2) Dany and her dragons make it home. Maybe Dany ends up winning the kingdom when her dragons help fight off the White Walkers? Interested in finding out how those two stories will be concluded.
The way I see it Dany would be the only true shocking death as I believe she is written as the ultimate hero not Robb. Even from season 1, Robb wasn't written as the most important Stark child. Jon, Arya, Bran and even Sansa were given a better POV than Robb ever was.
With that said, I read up to book 3 and can tell you the next major story involves the bad guys taking a huge hit. :)
- R143 makes a good point. Film and TV work when the audience has a character to root for and I think there is a danger none will be left by the later seasons. We've pretty much run out of Starks except for the kids. I hope there are some more non-evil characters coming or the casual viewers will lose interest.
- [quote]The very last moment when Catelyn is standing their silence and frozen was the saddest of all because she looked like she just gave up on life at that point. Her first born son was murdered in the most horrific way and she had absolutely nothing left to life for. She looked dead before her throat was ever slit.
And don't forget; she thought Bran and Rickon were dead as well.
I think the takeaway here is this: Don't let Brienne swear loyalty to you. It doesn't end well for the people she serves.
- I have to wonder where Stannis Baratheon figures into all this. The Starks pose no threat to the Lannisters now. That's been dealt with. So now there's Stannis, a major, immediate threat to the Lannisters, Dany, and The threat of Wildings & Whitewalkers at the Wall.
We have people who know about the Whitewalker threat, like Jon Snow & The Wildings, and people who either don't know or don't believe it, like Dany, who doesn't know, and everyone else who doesn't believe it.
So you have Jamie, Tyrion, Joffrey, Tywin and Cersei. You have Jon Snow and Dany, and as much as I love Bran, Sansa, and Arya, they, along with Theon, and so many others are becoming very minor characters.
Brienne, and Roose Bolton, and that guy with the fiery Sword don't even matter. Maybe The Hound will emerge as a big shot. War does strange things to the social order.
I have to wonder about Littlefinger and Varys and where this places them in the scheme of things. Don't know whether to relegated them to the same status as Brienne or to consider them up there with Jamie et al.
- Last night's episode was hilarious. Unfortunately, it's all downhill from here. One other mildly fun moment in the books and then nothing dramatically for a long, barren stretch.
I don't know what HBO thinks is going to happen because they just came to the dramatic high point of the books and George whatshisname has written nothing close to it since.
Good luck fangurlinas!
- I'm already finding the Theon storyline tedious. Fine, strategically the Lannisters have to deal with his father and probably his sister, who I see as the female version of Jamie. But smarter.
But WTF is Theon's story line? His tormentor said this would not be a happy ending. OK. He gets tortured. He's paying for his betrayal of the Starks, burning Winterfell, and possibly killing the kids. We get it. But he has no army and I'm tired of the torture scenes.
His storyline is going nowhere. If he escapes or if he gets killed off, I don't even give a fuck at this point. As far as I'm concerned, he's expendable, and the longer they keep him around the weaker their storyline gets.
Short of a scene having Arya Stark kill him, there's not another scene of Theon I care to see. She'd do it, too if she could. I don't remember if he's on her list.
- In the Game of Thrones not everyone is a king, queen, or bishop. Theon is a pawn who will be put to use by and by.
- R151 is apparently clueless to the fact that there were no Theon scenes in last night's episode.
- Last night, the Game of Thrones TV show got to the most memorable — and horrible — point in the books, affectionately termed the "Red Wedding." It's a twist that has traumatized readers since 2000, when A Storm of Swords was first published, and the TV version has clearly had the same affect: immediately after the episode aired, Twitter exploded with anguish, rage, sorrow, horror, and comedy. Here are the best, funniest, angriest, and most insane tweets that last night's Game of Thrones inspired. (For more hilarity make sure to check out @RedWeddingTears and the comments in HBO's Game of Thrones' Facebook page.)
- R150, there is enough good material at King's Landing to make for an enjoyable fourth season, especially given how it seems we are no longer at a 1:1 ratio of books to television seasons. However, a fifth season could be a challenge to enjoy given the events that befall some characters and the prominence of some others. As it is, last night's episode does seem to be the dramatic peak of the series. If there was ever a time when the series needed to depart from the books and chart an entirely new course or alternate reality for these characters, last night was the opportunity to do so and the series refused to do that.
- First of all, anyone who needs a happy ending from their stories are incredibly stupid. Never took a literature course in college? Never read a typical Greek tragedy? I don't get the simpletons who want by-the-numbers stories. I like drama. I like curve balls. I don't need everything wrapped up in some simplistic, cliche happy ending.
Secondly, just because Robb and Catelyn died doesn't mean that there are no more good guys to root for. There's Dany and her gang, there's Jon Snow, there's the remaining Stark kids (Bran, Arya and Sansa), there's Tyrion. Plus there will be a new set of characters to love and hate as the story progresses. I've read all five books and trust me, by Book 5 I almost forgot about Robb Stark, who was never really that major of a character to begin with.
Thirdly, Theon becomes a much more important character later on. Why do you think GRRM kept him alive in the first place?
- Revenge is a dish best served cold.
- Everyone was crying and thrashing about after Ned died as well. Lot's of "What's the point?!?!" ranting here, on Facebook and Twitter. But the show still went on, more popular than ever.
- I've always like Daenerys and the dragons more so this didn't phase me as much but there are a lot of Stark fangirls so I understand everyone losing their shit over it.
- Exactly, R158. The problem with social media is that some of these people make complete jackasses out of themselves in the moment -and that's on here forever-) without realizing they'll get over it and move the fuck on very quickly.
- If you were paying attention at all this season you could have predicted that something terrible was going to happen. All roads were leading to this. I knew something awful was going to happen to Robb and his wife but I didn't expect it to be so brutal and I didn't know it was coming so quickly.
But the writing was on the wall. First, Robb was making a lot of bad choices this season. Marrying Talisa was stupid, we all know that. Love doesn't end well on GoT. Then his bannermen started deserting him. He physically lost the North to the Iron Islanders. He was sinking deeper and deeper each week. Yeah, they tried to give a glimmer of hope with this whole "Regain the Frey army and conquer Casterly Rock" thing but it was too little, too late.
- [quote]I don't get the simpletons who want by-the-numbers stories. I like drama. I like curve balls. I don't need everything wrapped up in some simplistic, cliche happy ending.
No, we don't ALWAYS need a happy ending, but an occasional positive outcome might make the story seem less ridiculous. I'm beginning to wonder why anyone is this world even bothers to go on living, much less procreating, when life is so horrible and everyone comes to a horrific end. I'd just take some of that poison Cersei had and be done with it.
Why does this sadistic prick of an author have to kill off EVERYONE who has good character and honor and leave only the putrid dregs to conquer and flourish. It's tiresome.
I'm also getting really sick of the near misses when characters are 'this' close to a reunion or rescue and then the rug gets pulled out from under them----yet again (yawn!). It's starting to feel like a cheap plot device to me. Poor Arya!
- There's only so much people will stand for though, R158. GOT jumped the shark last night.
I abandoned The Sopranos for the same reason. Got bored with all the senseless violence, meandering plots, dropped story lines and characters I enjoyed going MIA with no explanation. But most of all I got sick of having not one good person to root for.
- How about this, R162: Don't watch/read "Game of Thrones" if you expect the author/producers to do what YOU want?
He may be "sadistic," but how self-centered do you have to be to act like he's supposed to write according to what you want? It's his fucking stories and ideas, not yours.
Go find a story with rainbows and unicorns.
Yes, this episode WAS brutal--but you kinda saw it coming.
LOVE the dynamic between The Hound & Arya---and how she found out his one fear was fire. I have no doubt that given the chance she WOULD stick a sword through his eye.
The actor who plays Greyworm--the leader of the Unsullied--is hot. Any info on him?
- The only complaints should be about what characters were left out and the characters who were included that shouldn't have been.
- [quote]Secondly, just because Robb and Catelyn died doesn't mean that there are no more good guys to root for. There's Dany and her gang, there's Jon Snow, there's the remaining Stark kids (Bran, Arya and Sansa), there's Tyrion. Plus there will be a new set of characters to love and hate as the story progresses.
I don't understand this talk of good guys and bad guys. Except for the Stark kids (and they're slipping fast), everyone on the show is amoral and opportunistic, that's its charm. Except for the truly crazy ones no one is evil, they're just acting in their own self-interest.
Danny is a fucking monster who has racked up the highest body count on the show, generally harmless city dwellers, but everyone loves her.
- [quote]The actor who plays Greyworm--the leader of the Unsullied--is hot. Any info on him?
I know. I expected this place to go nuts over him.
He reminds me of the lead singer in Fine Young Cannibals.
- Boy, are there a bunch of whiny babies in this thread! The Red Wedding was one of the most awesome plot points in the books and people like R162 are complaining because there's too much death and carnage? Then obviously Game of Thrones is not for you.
Robb and Cat were not the be all and end all of this show, nor are they they only 'good' or moral characters. We still have a lot of awesome people to root for, as other posters have already listed.
And yes, Robb Stark had to go. He was a bad king. Shortsighted and making a lot of bad choices. Just like Ned, he was way over his head and playing by a set of rules nobody else was playing by. Cat knew this. He pissed off the Freys then thought he could appease them with a marrying off a lesser relative. He thought the old rules 'you don't kill your guests' applied. He fucked over his bannermen, he let Theon take Winterfell and he thought could get away with marrying for love and not for power.
Of all the Starks, he was the biggest moron (although likable) so he had to die.
- [quote]Danny is a fucking monster who has racked up the highest body count on the show, generally harmless city dwellers, but everyone loves her.
The "harmless city dwellers" are brutal slavers. Probably has some reason to do with why the audience doesn't feel sympathy for them. She's more of a shrewd ruler than Robb was, that's for sure. The thing about leading is knowing who to surround yourself with and she has quite the awesome and loyal group around her now. Ser Jorah, Ser Barristan, Daario and Grey Worm are all amazing warriors and seem to be utterly devoted to her.
- ITA, r169!
Robb should have at least had his men on guard at all times. It's insane that he didn't. He, just like his father, put too much stock into the supposed honor of men. That's why Tywin Lannister is so badass, he looks at the reality of the situation and then gets shit DONE.
I really felt so horrible for Catelyn though. I think those last 10 seconds of catatonic silence was so heartbreaking. She knew she had nothing left. That was a woman SPENT.
- I agree with r169; Robb doesn't even have a POV in the books, it's all seen thru his mother's eyes, and he's just a dimwit. He's not even half the man his father was. Catelyn's death is the one in the scene in both the book and the show that destroys me. Moreso in the books since she's a more complicated character in the books - stronger, more cunning - but Michelle Fairley was given a bunch of that finally in this episode and she was amazing.
I was seriously disturbed by the stabbing of Talisa in the belly, though. Like PTSD-ish - I can't get the image out of my head. I know that's the entire point - it's vital to this story that the violence disturb you. But good grief that was fucking horrific. I couldn't remember what the deal with the books was - that her character isn't even there for the wedding - so it was leaving me a little bewildered, I couldn't remember what happened to her. Jesus.
So... I suppose this is a slight SPOILER for those of you who haven't read the book so I'll be vague - do you think the part where Robb's reunited with his pet will happen next week?
- Some people are not bright enough to comprehend how power works. R169 does a pretty good job of explaining why Robb would never "win." He made stupid decisions based on desperation, "honor" and "love" as if all of the other players would simply go along with it. He wasn't strong or ruthless enough to win - his little sister would've made a better king.
- I'm sure, R172. Seems ridiculous to wait a year when everyone has gotten over Robb's death.
- [quote]Joffrey Baratheon and Walder Frey were the other two cursed with Melisandre's slugs, right?
No, he didn't curse Walder Frey (he would have no reason to).
He cursed the other remaining "kings" who are at war--this is the War of the Five Kings, of which he was one, and he had already killed Renly. So the remaining three kings for him to curse with the slugs were Joffrey, Robb, and Balon Greyjoy (Theon's father, the king of the Iron islands).
- R170, that poster shouldn't have called them "harmless" but I get the point. This is a show about war, a show were massacres have occurred, so people suddenly being outraged about a massacre taking place come off...
I consider Dany, Jon, Tyrion, and Arya to be more important than Robb, so I still think the main good guys are still in place. I think Catelyn is a greater loss than Robb as well but as someone who's read the book, we get some payoff from her death at least.
The "bad" guys have lots of problems headed their way as well.
- Thanks r175. I completely forgot about Greyjoy. I guess I just want Weirdo Frey dead!
- This season and the next is definitely the "Empire Strikes Back" of the series.
- Spoiled the Red Wedding for myself be reading wiki, so not as shocked as when Ned Stark was beheaded. Still kicking myself for it.
Poor Sansa. I wonder who gets the priviledge of telling her about her mother and brother.
- r174 I just wasn't sure if they'd show it or not. I suppose after watching a pregnant woman get gutted I should realize how silly I'm being. Of course they'll show it!
Is there a thread where we can talk about what's supposed to happen next week? I'm not sure what they'll be putting in next week's episode and I'm curious... I can't really remember the order of things to come now.
- Wow, I wasn't expecting that. I was expecting a tearful reunion of Arya and Caetlin.
This is not a complaint just an exclamation of shock.
"No, we don't ALWAYS need a happy ending, but an occasional positive outcome might make the story seem less ridiculous.
Actually, there are more than occasional positive outcomes in the multifaceted plot of Game of Thrones. If you haven't noticed, Khaleesi, of late, has been on a victory roll, including last night's battle. And Jon was saved by Bran as well last night.
The mix of many unexpected tragedies and many fortunate gains happening to its major characters doesn't make Game of Thrones ridiculous as fantasy. To the contrary, it makes it richly mirror real world history in a very satisfying way.
- POSSIBLE SPOILERS! R170 They seem to be right? The fun thing about Song of Fire and Ice(The Game Of Thrones Book Series title) is that people who seem evil turn out to not be so bad by the most recent book. And sometimes vice versa, Make no mistake The Khalessi is a cunt, a ruthless one at that BUT she is a bit of an idiot like Robb Stark is. Just a bit...
Tywin also seems to be rather pragmatic right? He's made all the right moves so far but his biggest Achilles' Heel is the way he treats his children/grandchildren. He thinks he's so in control of the situation yet he makes his own idiotic missteps here and there.
- I just hope that whenever GRRM release the next book after Dance with Dragons that Daenerys stops farting around Essos and gets her and her dragons' back to Westeros.
- Most people who are into swords and sorcery fantasy are used to the formulaic plot devices and story arcs. Ned dying was more acceptable because it's a common plot to have the patriarch of a family die so his children can rise up and avenge him. But last night's massacre falls out of the conventional tropes of most fantasy tales and THAT is precisely why GRRM is a writing genius. It is rare when a story can actually shock the living hell out of its audience these days. Everyone is so jaded now but this just cut through all that. Bravo!
- From the really great Rolling Stone recap:
"The death of an idea can hurt just as badly as the death of a person. People are mortal, after all, and come with an expiration date – it's the cost of doing business with them. But ideas often have a wider impact than any one person. They're passed down and passed around, like heirlooms or viruses. It's easy to convince ourselves that an idea that gives our life meaning will outlast our life, any life, in turn. To lose an idea like that leaves us adrift, with no shore in sight.
The Red Wedding – I know, the episode of Game of Thrones is called "The Rains of Castamere" for spoiler-avoidance purposes, but the Red Wedding is what book-readers have called it for more than a decade and it's how it will be known to show-watchers until the end of time – killed much more than Robb Stark, and Catelyn Stark, and Talisa Stark, and Grey Wind, and the Northern army. It killed an idea. In the world of the show, it killed the hope of the North, the spirit of independence and rebellion and justice that promised one last bloom of warmth before the coming winter if the Starks had prevailed over the Lannisters.
But for readers and viewers, it killed our idea of what this series is. The central conflict, Stark vs. Lannister, is now over. The Lannisters won. There will be no comeback now, if ever. Sure, we know on some level that there's much more going on, from smaller rivalries like Littlefinger vs. Varys or Cersei vs. Margaery to the potentially massive storms brewing north of the Wall and east of the Sea. But it's been Stark vs. Lannister the whole time, until now. A lifetime of reading and watching fiction has trained us to treat the establishment of a central conflict as a promise that it will remain the central conflict until the end of that work of fiction. The Red Wedding took that promise, cut its throat and dumped it on the floor to bleed out."
- Come on, r164. I would bet that half the audience for this show had never even heard of Martin or GoT before HBO optioned it as a series. GoT is very dark and unlike most of what we see on television. You can't expect people who have become invested in certain characters not to be upset when they are slaughtered like pigs. I doubt HBO or D&D are surprised by fan reaction to last nights show. I'm sure they would be concerned if there hadn't been such an uproar over the deaths. I think fans like r162 are more the norm than the ghouls who are creaming themselves over the bloodletting that happened last night. I can't see canceling HBO as a knee jerk reaction to a fictional television show but I do think those people have a right to their POV.
- R185 But for readers and viewers, it killed our idea of what this series is. The central conflict, Stark vs. Lannister, is now over. The Lannisters won. There will be no comeback now, if ever.
As long as Arya,Jon, Bram, and Sansa are still alive I wouldn't call it an end just yet.......
- I've seen the first couple of episodes. The last I saw was a kid watching a brother and sister fucking and they threw the kid out the window. Catch me up, what have I missed? Go....
- [quote] A lifetime of reading and watching fiction has trained us to treat the establishment of a central conflict as a promise that it will remain the central conflict until the end of that work of fiction.
Right, but start a thread about Hitchcock and the same Queens who are in a tizzy about Game of Thrones will go on for pages about the genius of killing Janet Leigh in the shower scene.
- r187 - Yes those character are around but the writer at Rolling Stone is talking symbolically - symbolically the army of the North just got decimated. Bran and Rockon and Ayra and Jon (the bastard half-Stark, if even that) are not going to marshaling that battle any time soon. The center, the possibility of Stark dominance, just dropped out. I'm sure all the remaining Starks will do their part in revenge and the coming battles, but there is no center any more.
- I'm going to miss Michelle Fairley. Robb was an idiot, a good man but a bad king.
This episode was brutal. I thought the stabbing in the stomach of a pregnant woman was a bit too much. Maybe they wanted to shock people who already read the books and knew what was going to happen so they took it one step further.
What exactly is Sansa an heir to? Didn’t they lose everything? They have no army, no castle, no money. She only has the family name.
- [quote]You can't expect people who have become invested in certain characters not to be upset when they are slaughtered like pigs.
It's fine to be upset, but have you read the reactions of some of these people? They're trying to tell a guy who is the reason they even have a program to watch "How dare you write YOUR story YOUR way???"
People have grown so accustomed to the cliched "good guys always win" formula that I think they need plots like this to shake it up. Heaven forbid they realize that Robb may have been a good guy and a good warrior, but he was a lousy politician.
- I wouldn't cut out now, there's still one more wedding to go!
- [quote]As long as Arya,Jon, Bram, and Sansa are still alive I wouldn't call it an end just yet.......
Oh yes, because these teenagers are so much stronger, more cunning, wiley and experienced in the art of war than their doomed elder relatives, Ned, Cate and Robb.
- "This episode was brutal. I thought the stabbing in the stomach of a pregnant woman was a bit too much. Maybe they wanted to shock people who already read the books and knew what was going to happen so they took it one step further. "
That's exactly what I think too, r191.
In the books what happens to Edmure? I can't remember, it's been so long since I read all this and I flew through this part so fast, it was so traumatic.
- [quote]They're trying to tell a guy who is the reason they even have a program to watch "How dare you write YOUR story YOUR way???"
STFU, R192. Ever hear of a critique? Everyone criticizes books and movies for being stupid, shallow, having gratuitous sex and violence, poor character development, a lousy plot......on and on and on.
Don't be such a blind fanatical fanboi that you can't see ANY ways that this story could be improved. For fucks sake, DL'ers are complaining that there isn't enough male nudity in the show. Why aren't you wagging your finger at THEM like a harpy shrew?
- [quote]Oh yes, because these teenagers are so much stronger, more cunning, wiley and experienced in the art of war than their doomed elder relatives, Ned, Cate and Robb.
Jon is older than Robb and is way more capable. Hell, even Arya is more cunning then Robb.
It's absolutely not over for the Starks. There's still a lot of story to tell. Right now the Lannisters have won, but they have their own troubles ahead, don't you worry.
- Jon’s last shot made him look like a coward. Ygritte protected him against her own people, and he ran off and left her behind, probably to be killed.
- R195, Edmure becomes a hostage but on the bright side he hits it off with his wife.
I think the stabbing only made it that much more tragic. In the books, "Talisa" never gets pregnant nor does she die. In the books, Talisa is even suspected of betraying Robb (she knew about Red Wedding taking place). For the show, they made Robb a more important character than in the books and they changed Talisa to a good person to make her death more tragic. Honestly, I prefer on screen Talisa to the one in the books.
Books 4 and 5 are not as interesting as Book 3 though. The series was originally intended to be a trilogy and it was expanded due to it's popularity. Books 4 and 5 should have been one book.
Supposedly, HBO is going to combine Book 4 and 5 into one season, and since Book 3 was the best, it was expanded into two season. Season 3 is only the first half, and I think the "bad" guys suffer more in the second half (next season).
Also, I'm sure the show will hit it's darkest point when the White Walkers take over. That's no spoiler, just an assumption. This story is about three major things. 1) Starks vs Lannisters (there are more important Starks than Rob), 2) The White Walkers and black magic/ice, 3) Dany and her dragons and good magic/fire. I'm assuming at one point it'll all collide against one another. Dragons vs Zombies in the final book maybe?
Depending on how good Books 6 and 7 are, then we can determine if maybe it was a bad idea to expand it from a trilogy to 7 books. If books 6 and 7 are at the same level as Books 4 and 5, then it was definitely a bad idea to expand it so much.
- He doesn't seem to be spending much time writing those books...
So he has two years to get the next book out in time to film it for the TV series? And then what?
- R194, Jon and Arya are far better leaders than Ned and Robb ever were. Catelyn was the brains behind that family, her only mistake releasing Jamie.
Ned and Robb brought on their own deaths. As for Catelyn, her death is vital to the story and creates a new and major badass enemy for those behind the massacre.
With that said hope the lady portraying Catelyn gets recognition for her acting. Wow.
- [quote]Oh yes, because these teenagers are so much stronger, more cunning, wiley and experienced in the art of war than their doomed elder relatives, Ned, Cate and Robb.
Arya is way more savvy than Robb was. Jon is older and, as we'll come to see, is a better leader of men. Bran, as we got a glimpse of tonight has some pretty awesome abilities that he is just beginning to tap into. Sansa is in a bad place right now but that doesn't mean she'll stay there forever.
The House Stark is NOT done, not by a long shot. The death of Catelyn Stark is much more of a blow than Robb, IMO.
- r172 and r174 are causing me to break out in a cold sweat. I assume that "reuniting" Robb with Grey will not entail the two of them frolicking in a field of wildflowers on the grounds of Winterfell. Is there a bear involved in this scenario?
- Ned was quick to admit that he was a better soldier than he was a politician. I think that was a huge foreshadow for Robb's whole story arc during the last two seasons.
- This is exactly the reaction that the writers wanted and I think they would have been really disappointed if they got anything less.
- R203, if you want to know then click on the link. I'm positive they'll do it next episode since it's a pretty powerful moment,
- [quote]It's absolutely not over for the Starks. There's still a lot of story to tell.
Nothing happens to any of the remaining Starks that comes anywhere close to the story shifting events of last night's episode. Sure, they may have story but none of it is of any significance to the grand scheme of things or to the balance of power in Westeros. Jon is the only one of them who comes close to having an impact and he ultimately does not shake up things much. Don't even get me started on the pointlessness of Theon, either.
- So when is Joffrey's wedding happening?
- [quote][R194], Jon and Arya are far better leaders than Ned and Robb ever were.
Arya is a better survivor, but she's not really a leader.
And it's much easier to be a survivor in their world when you're a boyish looking ten year-old girl no one looks twice at then a fully grown male lord of a great house.
Ned was a great leader until he fell into Cersei's snare at King's Landing. But before then he had won lots of battles and had even put down a major rebellion in the Iron islands.
- Ned was a good soldier and a good general, but he WAS not a cunning politician. Robb was even worse.
- [quote]Nothing happens to any of the remaining Starks that comes anywhere close to the story shifting events of last night's episode. Sure, they may have story but none of it is of any significance to the grand scheme of things or to the balance of power in Westeros.
That's not true. One of the Starks will become a major figure (whether knowingly or not) in a couple of upcoming MAJOR power plays.
- [quote]First of all, anyone who needs a happy ending from their stories are incredibly stupid. Never took a literature course in college? Never read a typical Greek tragedy? I don't get the simpletons who want by-the-numbers stories. I like drama. I like curve balls. I don't need everything wrapped up in some simplistic, cliche happy ending.
I agree with you and unfortunately it is this kind of mentality, must have by the numbers happy stories/endings, that have Americans in the cross hairs as sitting ducks for the powers that be that have in REAL LIFE been plotting their demise.
Get your heads out of your asses, the sand and anywhere else you stick them in order to not see what is in front of you America. Grow up. Life could get as hard for you as it is for these fictional characters if you don't grow some balls and look at what is happening in your own REAL world.
- This has been a reasonable and respectful discussion of last nights episode. In other words, an asshole free zone. I respect your opinion r196 but telling another poster to STFU because you don't agree with him/her is not cool. And will only set off a flame war that hijacks the thread. Please don't allow that to happen.
- [quote]So he has two years to get the next book out in time to film it for the TV series? And then what?
Next season is the 2nd half of Book 3, Storm of Swords.
Book 4, Feast for Crows, should supply about a season's worth of material, but they will have to pillage Book 5 for some of the characters as there is overlap.
Book 5 has enough material for 2 seasons.
So, he has 4 years to write the next book.
Hopefully the ticking clock of HBO's schedule will prove focusing.
I do know that he has told the showrunners his road map for the rest of the book series, so if he dies, they can finish it out.
- I disagree with the point of r212's Hardboiled Hannah schtick (as dramatic as it may be for her to perform it to terrified 20somethings in a gay bar while she's wearing full tragic drag queen garb). None of us is fighting a war in a medieval nation, so we can be fairly sure we won't be massacred in a revenge scheme at a noble wedding, or beheaded for trumped-up treason charges in a public square.
BUT... I think what's more important to take away from all this is that Martin and the show's creators have obviously done a very good job with making us care about the characters, or else there would not have been such an uproar when Ned was killed or last night after the Red Wedding.
Obviously the show's creators and HBO knew all this was going to happen to the show when they put it together: Benioff and Weiss even said it was particularly the Red Wedding that made them want to do the show. Tons of people (including me) were shocked when Ned was beheaded in Season 1, and I remember at the time many people swore they were never going to watch the show again. Obviously that didn;t happen because far more people tuned in for the second season premiere than had watched that episode. Similarly, I think last night's events (which I knew were coming since I read ahead after Ned's beheading) will only increase their audience even further, despite all the hoo-hah.
- I don't need a "happy ending" but I do want a satisfying ending I do want to be able to say that the ending is plausible and makes sense. I would love something provocative and controversial. I would love to be able to say, "I never thought of this, it's very unexpected, but it makes sense." Personally I'd find the clichéd happy ending simplistic and insulting after all this. I hope GRRM and the showrunners come up with something that is really mind blowing, something that has a "Wiw!" effect.
With Ned Stark, the way his character was drawn, he had to die. His death was tragic in a classic Shakespearean sense. His virtues were also his flaws & proved his undoing. I thought something terrible was going to happen to Robb's wife, but I was shocked that he & his mother were killed.
I remember how Frey looked at him after he humiliated Talisa, and said, "you shouldn't have brought her." I'd have excused myself to go pee, and ran the hell out of there.
The fact is, Robb needed to make peace with Stannis and support Stannis's claim. He should have had better intel to find out WTF was going on. His mother at least knew that there were behind the scenes machinations all the time.
She had a real sense of what the Freys were like. Someone should have schooled the boy. His naivete got him killed. He & his mother engaged in magical thinking because they wanted and needed to believe everything would be OK with the Freys if Robb apologized, and secured Edmure to wed a Frey. Stunningly dumb for people engaged in a war.
- [quote]I do know that he has told the showrunners his road map for the rest of the book series, so if he dies, they can finish it out.
Which could happen, given that he's not a spring chicken and it morbidly obese.
- Tonight's episode is basically what happens ever season of The Walking Dead. Don't forget about Lost, Mad Men, Sopranos...etc. A shocking death is what hooked you all in the first place.
- [quote]I don't need a "happy ending" but I do want a satisfying ending I do want to be able to say that the ending is plausible and makes sense.
Well, you may be in luck then: neither the books nor the TV series has ended yet.
- I laughed at your first paragraph 215 but I don't do drag. I just get pissed that people can get passionate about fiction but are blind to what is going on in their own lives. There is plenty of intrigue going on right in front of us and you don't have to fire a shot to do great violence to someone. Violence is visited on us in many ways and it would be really great if people started waking up to the "violence" going on right now that is aimed at the American people. But how can they look? How can they look at it when a TV show upsets them so dramatically and takes up so much of their attention?
They are sitting ducks and fools just like Robb Stark and his people.
- Before this show ends I want the pleasure of watching Brienne of Tarth make Roose Bolton her bitch. A swordswallower indeed. Is that too much to ask?
- Oh, stuff it, R220! How dare you assume that because people get exercised about a work of fiction, or excited about some TV show/characters, that they're blind to the real world and to what goes on in their lives or the world around them. that is certainly not the case for me and I'm sure it isn't for many if not most of the posters on this thread.
I've thoroughly enjoyed this discussion and I'm glad we have ignored attempts to hijack it and turning it into a pissing contest for trolls.
- Not exactly, R220. Most people can tell the difference between fiction and reality. You can’t assume people have no sense of the violence in reality just because they feel passionate over a TV show. Fiction is not limited to escapism, it can also encourage discussion. Most people discuss it for a while and then they go on with their lives and discuss other things. Why do you feel a TV show has such magical powers to blind people to reality?
I could see your point if you were referring to culture in general, but one TV show?
- R214, I was referencing what someone posted earlier about them combining books 4 and 5 into one season...
- I think they already said they will combine Books 4 and 5 but not in one season. It will most likely be over two seasons as there is too much plot to fit into one.
Book 4 focuses on characters in the West and South, Book 5 focuses on characters in the East and North. Both books are told in the same time period, but from different POVs. So they both can be easily blended, as GRRM originally intended.
- R194 Catelyn and Robb were hardly strategic masterminds!You will see how stupid some of the Lannisters coming up are as well.Some of their so-called strategies and behavior will end up in total tragedy. I can tell that you are a dilettante that hasn't read the books.You are a troll and you make Tyrion look like a supermodel in comparison!
- Ah, R225... that makes sense. That wasn't clear to me before. Thanks.
- R216 Martin has intimated that the ending will not be provocative a la Lost and/or challenging or even confusing. I think the story will have a happy ending but with unlikely agents being the heroes in the last book.
- There is a lot of plot but i's obvious GRRM has tons of filler material. He originally intended it to be a trilogy and is now extending it to 7 books.
Books 4 and 5 are far less important than Book 3, imo. Combined they are about the same level but independently they drag on too much. Books 4 and 5 combined have the same amount of important events that Book 3 has.
Also, how long is HBO planning on having this show on for? The poster who says Book 5 has enough material to fill two seasons worth of shows, does he think HBO is going to do 7/8 seasons of just the first 5 books? I'm assuming the final two books will be even more important, so those books would require multiple seasons as well.
GRRM hit a high note with the red wedding, but books 4 and 5 is a lot of people running around and slowly moving toward a goal. I suspect he's saving the real action for the final book.
- Three things:
One - to the fucking idiots whining about "spoilers" you need to shut the fuck up. The last time you started that shit here, it did not end well for you. I'm telling you NOW so I don't have to tell you THEN.
Two - to the fucking idiots going hysterical over the Red Wedding - you also need to shut the fuck up. You write like those morons on twitter. Twits. You are obviously not gay. You shouldn't even be here.
Three - I fucking LOVE George RR Martin for doing this to his characters. Ned Stark executed, now Robb Stark slaughtered - it's fantastic.
Bonus: Not a spoiler but spoiler-adjacent - to the person who asked about Arya becoming a second-tier character. No. She's a major character and will continue to be one. In fact, young Arya gets more interesting as the story progresses. Hell of a character arc on that girl. Valar Morghulis, baby.
- I agree that Arya is an awesome character and becomes so much more exciting as time goes on. In the whole scheme of things, Robb really was the least interesting of the Stark brood. Even Sansa's story arc is fascinating. I can't wait for everything to unfold in the future seasons.
- Hey R230, did you take the Short Bus to school? Are you, ya know "special"?
- Ooh, Miss r230 put on her special bossybritches on today! No one tells HER what to do--but SHE'S the boss of everyone else!
- "The very last moment when Catelyn is standing their silence and frozen was the saddest of all because she looked like she just gave up on life at that point. Her first born son was murdered in the most horrific way and she had absolutely nothing left to life for. She looked dead before her throat was ever slit."
I agree - that scene was heartbreaking. I even thought she died of shock before her throat was slit.
As for the poster who is comparing this to a Greek tragedy, you do realize that not all of the tragedies were written with sad endings right? Every tragedy employs a reversal of fortune, and as far as GOT is concerned we've seen an unbalanced rof in so far as the Starks have been completely dismantled but the Lannister stay strong (minus Jamie's right hand). I'm all for 'realistic' arcs but the plotting of the show is kind of clunky, which is what most are upset with.
- [quote] Book 5 has enough material for 2 seasons.
Those would be two very boring seasons.
IMO, books four and five COMBINED have enough interesting material for one season... maybe.
- Congrats, R230. Yours is the most asinine post on the thread. You sound delightful.
- One of the most fascinating things about GOT (both books and TV) is the sense one has that these tumultuous, often awful events in Westeros, as families conduct their horrific feuds, are really all beside the point, next to the two menaces that may well tear this medieval world to pieces: the coming of Winter with the threat of zombies invading from the North; and the dragon-borne return of the Targaryens from the East.
It's still hard to know how Martin is plotting all this, but one thing seems certain: he sees a kind of parallel with our own world, in which we are utterly unable to come to grips with the major long-term threats to our own survival as a species.
The Red Wedding is truly awful, but nowhere near as awful as The Song of Ice and Fire will be when it comes to pass.
- Arya may be a great character and her adventures may be fun; but she is and will continue to be a sideshow disconnected from the central story of Game of Thrones. She is nothing more than a distraction when it comes to control of Westeros. The same can be said for her younger siblings. Her older sibling and half sibling aren't much different. All of them are closer to being spin-off characters than ones crucial to the central story.
- Yea, R230, we don't like you. Settle down. You don't know the rules, you don't make the rules, and no one is on your side.
This is a thread to discuss the show, not spoil. Find the spoiler thread if you want to discuss the future books.
- [quote]Every tragedy employs a reversal of fortune, and as far as GOT is concerned we've seen an unbalanced rof in so far as the Starks have been completely dismantled but the Lannister stay strong (minus Jamie's right hand). I'm all for 'realistic' arcs but the plotting of the show is kind of clunky, which is what most are upset with.
Thank you, R234. It's not that people want a rainbows and unicorns story where nothing bad ever happens to good people. But this show has been so OTT unbalanced it has been rendered almost camp. It's clear that they are now just brutally knocking off well liked characters for shock value.
- Guys, it's always darkest before the dawn. Hang in there.
- It's not as though the Starks (Eddard, Rob, and Catelyn) don't have major character flaws, after all.
- Winter is coming...
- I think you can divide the major characters up this way based on what we've seen:
Pretty clearly good: Tyrion, Sansa, Arya (despite becoming more and more bloodthirsty), Bran, Rickon, Jon, Brienne, Cersei's two younger children, Sam, Davos Seaworth, Jojen, Jojen's sister, Hodor (though good and evil may be meaningless terms with him), the blacksmithing boy now in the care of Stannis and Melisandre
Pretty clearly good but dead: Ned, Caitlyn, Robb, Talisa
Complexly good: Varys, Khaleesi, Ygritte, Asha (the wildling caring for Bran), the shapeshifting mercenary Arya helped (though he seems more neutral--he just happened to owe something to Arya), the old guy who left Joffrey's court and is helping Khaleesi, the mercenary helping Tyrion who seems greedy but also seems pretty good at heart
Complexly good but dead: Khal Drogo, Renly
Ambiguous status as of yet--we don't have enough information to know for sure: Margaery (probably pretty clearly good if she is what she appears to be), Loras (probably too weak-willed to be either good or evil), Olenna (probably complexly good or complexly evil--whichever, she's a machinator), Yara (Theon's sister), the new hunky long-haired mercenary helping Khaleesi, Caitlyn's sister (seems crazy), Caitlyn's nephew (the "MAKE THE BAD MAN FLY!" kid--also seems crazy)
Complexly evil: Jaime (does evil things often for good reasons), the Hound (amoral, but does much evil), Stannis (ditto), Melisandre, Theon (did evil things but mostly because he was misunderstood and stupid), Balon Greyjoy (certainly a terrible father whatever he is)
Pretty clearly evil: Joffrey, Cersei, Tywin, Walder Frey, the Mountain, the guy currently torturing Theon, Littlefinger
Pretty clearly evil but dead: The skinny warlock in Qarth, the head slaver in Astapor, Khaleesi's silver-haired brother
However, all this is just based on what we've seen so far. And as many have pointed out, things can really change with a lot of these characters: I've been able to feel sorry sometimes for Cersei even though she's clearly as nasty as can be, and I would have put Jaime in the column of "Pretty clearly evil" until this season.
- Cool analysis, R244...
- [quote]Pretty clearly evil: Joffrey
But he's so blond.
- Not sure if this has been linked to yet but here's the trailer for next week's finale
- The write-up of this week's episode:
[bold]Why do we sit through the brutality of Game of Thrones every week?[/bold]
Ever since we lost Ned Stark, Game of Thrones has been turning into a more and more chaotic show, in which horrific events befall various characters in a seemingly random fashion every week. This one loses a hand, that one gets crossbowed to death. So why do we keep watching it? Are we just sadists? Masochists? Spoilers ahead...
Seriously, we signed up for last night's episode, by sticking with the show after Jaime Lannister's hand and countless other atrocities, large and small, which we've witnessed these past few years. Last night, an unspeakable massacre happened, seemingly out of nowhere, in an episode that I'm tempted to call "One Wedding and Four Funerals."
It's Edmure Tully's wedding day, and Robb Stark's uncle is convinced the worst that could happen is that he'll be stuck with one of Lord Walder Frey's ugliest daughters. Instead, he gets a beautiful daughter — and his wedding guests are slaughtered, including Robb, Catelyn Stark, Talisa and poor Grey Wind.
Obviously, even on the surface, this isn't random. The episode builds up carefully that Walder Frey is still piqued by Robb's failure to marry his daughter as promised. And Roose Bolton, who sent Jaime Lannister home, has made a deal with the Lannisters. But it still feels like it comes out of nowhere, in some fashion, because up until the last moment you feel as though Walder could be satisfied with Edmure as a replacement groom. And it's not like a battle, or like the sort of obvious trap that Ned Stark walked into. The Starks and Tullys are under Walder Frey's explicit protection, and he still does this.
And more to the point, this isn't a slaughter that leaves us with hope for some future pay-off. Maybe Arya Stark, who witnesses some of it, will grow up and get revenge on her increasingly long list of targets. Maybe Rickon Stark will become a great leader. Maybe there will be some karma. Maybe Daenerys and her dragons will eventually show up and burn the Freys and Lannisters, along with a lot of other people. But when Ned Stark was beheaded, we were offered the comforting possibility that Robb Stark would avenge him — and now, in fact, we're seeing how that turns out. This time, there's no such comfort.
So why do we choose to watch Game of Thrones, now that it's turned into a carousel of death, torture and mutilation, culminating in last night's Red Wedding? A couple of reasons, maybe:
1) We know that none of this is entirely random, and we're seeing the results of decisions people have been making all along. Which makes it worse, in a way, but more fascinating.
2) The rising climate of violence only makes the small acts of kindness or mercy that we keep seeing more vital and significant. In this episode alone, there are a couple of attempts to spare an old man's life, one of which turns out okay.
So taking the first one first, we don't have to reach that far back to see how the Starks are bringing this destruction on their own excessively proud heads. Sure, it begins with Catelyn Stark making a promise to Lord Walder Frey, that Robb Stark later breaks by marrying Talisa. And then Catelyn letting Jaime go, and Robb beheading Rickard Karstark. But you don't have to reach that far back, at all.
The crux of this latest episode is the scene, at the beginning, where Robb asks Catelyn's advice on his plan to attack Casterly Rock using Walder's army. The last time Catelyn gave her son advice (about not sending Theon home), Robb ignored it — and paid a huge price. So this time, he aims to listen.
(much more at the link)
- In the book in the chapter following the events inside the wedding hall GRRM makes us believe that Arya is killed too, which was just the breaking point for me. Only later do we find out the Hound just bonked her on the head to get her out of there. I guess that ambiguity would be hard to show on the show.
- Great post, r244.
One of the greatest aspects of this whole series for me is that I find myself rooting for people that I normally wouldn't or begrudgingly respecting them at least.
Tywin Lannister is case in point. He is a ruthless man who is terrible to his children but I also respect his cool pragmatism and leadership skill. He is a bastard, but a capable bastard.
Cersei is a cruel, heartless woman but I do feel for her on a feminist level. If you think about it, she was shat on by her father just as much as Tyrion. She was forced into a loveless, sometimes abusive marriage. She is pawned off as a tool in her father's games. All of her opinions, even though they're crazy, are dismissed simply because of her sex. Not condoning her bitchery but I'd be bitter too if I were her.
Roose Bolton is obviously an asshole but there's something I like about him too. It takes great intelligence and cunning to pull off that charade for so long. I'm guessing right after Catelyn released Jaime he realized the war was pretty much over for the North and decided to jump ship when Tywin contacted him and Frey.
The only villain who is thoroughly an unsympathetic monster is Joffrey. I would cheer if that little prick's blond head was sitting on a spike in the near future.
- This was definitely one of the most shocking scenes on television. I think this blows anything Breaking Bad, The Walking Dead or any other "gritty" show has done in the past.
Repeatedly stabbing a pregnant woman in the womb, out of absolutely no where. Wow. Catelyn's last few seconds...Double wow.
I don't even know how to process what I saw. I feel like I have PTSD! What the bloody hell...
- If you want to root for a strong female character, R250, pick either Melisandre or (preferably) Daenerys, both central characters.
- Thoughts on the Red Wedding and the fall of House Stark:
Along with the execution of Ned Stark at the end of Season 1, the Red Wedding represents a key turning point in the story. Just as we think we're traveling comfortably down one road, Martin overturns the apple cart and sends us tumbling down another.
The first season, which is to say the first novel, in the series establishes Ned Stark as the central character. Everything, even Jon and Daenerys' storylines, seem to revolve around him and the plot is set up as a King's Court mystery with Inspector Ned discovering the truth behind all the intrigues and plots in Westeros. Everything seems set up for the plot to come to Ned. Varys and Littlefinger are useful but untrustworthy allies, the Queen a hardcore power-playing adversary, and Ned and his family are caught in the middle.
And then, just as we'd settled in for a good court intrigue, choppy choppy, off with his head.
Yet, as tragic and disheartening as that was, it was also in an odd way hopeful. It told us that this wasn't going to be a simple, by the numbers adventure about Good and Honorable Ned battling the Mean and Nasty Lannisters. War was coming, unavoidable now.
And so the stage was set for two years of Robb Stark playing "King of the Wild Frontier," err King of the North. Like his father before him, Robb made poor decisions based on inflexible ideals of justice and honor that had fuck all to do with winning a war against Tywin Lannister. Robb won every battle, and yet lost the war because the choices he made cost him allies, supplies and territory.
And, as with Ned's story, just when we were settled in to the idea of a good, old-fashioned battlefield adventure which was surely..SURELY...to culminate with the Battle of Casterly Rock (really, could there be anything more certain?), the rug is pulled out again. Sure, nobody really thought that Walder Frey was going to make nice, but it just seemed so obvious that he would betray Robb on the battlefield. Robb himself says they can only prevail over the Lannisters "if Walder Frey cooperates." "Walder Frey" and "cooperate" are words that should not share the same sentence.
Unlike the death of Ned Stark, the Red Wedding doesn't fill us with a sense of intrigue at where the story will go from here. Because we knew that Robb was not going to prevail in battle. He would never sit on the Iron Throne or be acknowledged as an independent king by whoever did. He was fighting essentially to put Stannis Baratheon on the throne. That would be the same Stannis Baratheon who just cursed him to die.
Robb's story was essentially hopeless from the moment he married Talisa, and it's been getting increasingly hopeless ever since. What happened last night felt like a historical inevitability, like the cries of a thousand crows coming home to roost.
And now it falls to the remaining Stark children...to Sansa, Arya, Bran, Rikon and Jon...to bring Justice to their family. And yet, somehow, we are left with the strong sense that they'll have to make do with Vengeance.
- so what is this 10 Downing Street sex/affair rumour? Who is involved?
- [quote]The only villain who is thoroughly an unsympathetic monster is Joffrey.
I would also vote for the warlock in Qarth. Oh, and also r230 on this thread, who is little more than a would-be (but failed) Cersei Lannister.
- Am I the only one who finds the actor playing Roose Bolton (Robb's actual assassin last night) a hot daddy?
- R255, what about the guy that cut off Jaime's hand and the one who's torturing Theon?
- He's still not as bad as r230.
- GOT has had me hooked ever since Bran got pushed out of the window by Jamie. What a show.
- I wonder how they're going to wrap things up next episode. Obviously we're going to get all the reactions at King's Landing. I'm sure Joffrey will laugh maniacally while Sansa weeps.
I also wonder how they're going to leave off with Dany. She's been having quite the winning streak lately. Makes me almost nervous for her. She has a pretty good team around her now, which is more than I can say for any of the other power players in the game.
- r249 that is what really got me was thinking Arya had been killed as well. Reading about the wedding slaughter was hard but not as hard as that image of Arya running toward the castle wanting to get in and then seemingly getting cut down by what ever it was the Hound threw at her. I was shaken by losing Arya, in the book.
- I would add Mance Rayder, Tormund and Ser Jorah in your complexly good column, r244. Although, Jorah is obviously in love with Dany, and if his jealousy of Daario gets the better of him, he could go the other way. Grey Worm is an enigma and I believe he is also in love with Khaleesi but he realizes the only way he can serve that love is by being loyal and dying for her if necessary. Since he has my girl's back I'm putting him in the good guy group.
- LOL, r258! Although, I'd say Locke is probably more of a looker.
- r250 I usually stick up for women too but Cersei, and all the women of that time period have to deal with the same cultural bullshit, she is not the only one. As Tywin said, Cersei is too dumb to know what she DOESN'T know. She has got some tragic mistakes coming for herself based on her ignorance and her inability to see all sides of an issue and the impact that comes with each side.
- Cersei is always so mopey. I know she has reason to be, but it's become relentless.
I felt bad for Ygritte. I know most don't like the character, but I do.
- My favorite of the many hilarious tweets on the episode:
[quote]And that folks is why you always go DJ over wedding band #gameofthrones
On another topic:
[quote]The actor who plays Greyworm--the leader of the Unsullied--is hot. Any info on him?
I agree, I think he's gorgeous. His name is Jacob Anderson. He's a British actor who's done a load of UK TV.
- Anyone remember the prophecy given to Khaleesi that she would be betrayed three times for three different reasons? I know one of them was that she would be betrayed for love and another for money I think, can't remember the third. I was thinking that love would refer to Ser Jorah and was wondering if it has already happened?
- I would actually place Barristan in the clearly good column and Jorah in the complexly good.
Barristan is proven to be decent, loyal and of the "old guard" who still upholds the honor code that Ned lived by. During Robert's Rebellion, Ned vouched to spare Barristan's life because he was such a decent knight.
Jorah on the other hand is a bit more tainted. He was condemned to death for slaving by Ned and instead of accepting this punishment he fled to Essos. He then went under the employ of Robert's court to spy on Viserys and Dany and in return he would receive a full pardon of his crimes and be allowed to return home. Throughout his time with Dany he has repeatedly defended the institution of slavery on practical terms and bitterly resents Lord Stark for bringing down judgment on him for doing it.
All of this is why Barristan told Jorah that him being attached to Dany would not help her cause to those who remember what Jorah did in Westeros.
- [quote]I also wonder how they're going to leave off with Dany. She's been having quite the winning streak lately. Makes me almost nervous for her.
Don't worry R260, this author doesn't disappoint. Because most GOT fans have a fondness for her, Dany will be gang raped by 100 men. Afterwards, she will be put on a rack and all her bones will be broken. Then she'll be sliced and diced slowly while she screams in agony. Her head will be put on a spike and the rest of her body parts will be force fed to her dragons.
- The best episode of any series this year.
The actress who portrays Lady Stark deserves an Emmy and/or GG.
All of the scenes were amazing.
And, I, for one, do not mind spoilers so long as you allow enough physical space between the info for those who care not to read. But, I appreciate them since I scrutinize the way an actor portrays the character, or chews the scene.
Arya is a perfect example. And she is an amazing actor.
But, sadly, I also tuned in for this -- probably the hottest tv actor today.
- Well, now you've done it, r270. This is what I had planned for my lovely bride Margaery. I never get anything I want!
- I found it to be very Jacobean. Fans of the novels have mentioned The Red Wedding so I assumed it involved some blood letting, I just thought it was going to be a Lannister wedding and that it would involve Sansa. However, it didn't disappoint.
I knew something was up when the host said they would drink plenty of red wine. I found it audacious and a bit sad for Caitlin but I wasn't really moved. The Starks were always idiots, save Arya, and the idea that Frey would forgive Rob was not credible. The stabbing of Talisa is less shocking in the context of kings and queens and offspring. I take it people who were shocked and upset have never read The Bible or seen Psycho? You knew from the first season that Martin has no qualms with killing off major characters. Robb Stark was never going to rule The Magic Kingdom or whatever anyway.
But I am impressed with all the GoT fans. I thought people engaged with this fanboy wank because they were afraid of real emotion and here you've proved me wrong - you're a very emotional bunch after all. I do admire that.
- Here's what I'm curious about: Since Martin hasn't finished the books, I wonder if people's reaction to some of the characters has in any way influenced or changed what he writes.
- Nice write-up R253.
Essential truth to the series: it is not building to the confrontation you think it is. The last pages of the last book make that clear.
- He says not, r274.
- If you were unhappy with last night's results perhaps next week if all goes well you will be in a happier mood. Not sure though, the last episode is usually anticlimatic compared to the second to last episode.
- [quote]Jon’s last shot made him look like a coward. Ygritte protected him against her own people, and he ran off and left her behind, probably to be killed.
- GRRM said he has a basic blueprint of how he wants the story to go. He knew from the very near beginning that Robb and Catelyn were going to die but he didn't exactly know how it was going to happen until the time came to write it. He wrote all of the third book, leaving that particular chapter out and then went back and wrote it out because it was the hardest for him to put to paper.
- Funny to think Edmure was probably sticking his sword in a girl while someone was sticking their sword in Robb...
- Jorah's barely contained jealousy over anyone with a dick that comes in contact with Dany is obviously going to get him in trouble down the road. Notice Grey Worm is the only man that hasn't gotten shade from Ser Jorah of House Friendzone, since he's the only one without a cock.
- [quote]Jorah's barely contained jealousy over anyone with a dick that comes in contact with Dany is obviously going to get him in trouble down the road.
- I wonder if it's Jorah that Grey Worm doesn't trust. Since Dany didn't ask him, he is staying quiet, but keeping his options open should Jorah's love jones for Dany become a problem down the line. That man is crazy in love. Just check out r283's link.
- It's hard keeping track of so many characters, and since we didn't have anything with King's landing last night I suppose much of the episode will be concerned with the reaction of the characters there to the Red Wedding. Since Tywin seems to have planned it all, he'll probably be very happy, as will Joffrey and Cersei. But poor Sansa will think she's the only Stark left alive since she thinks her younger brothers are dead and she has no idea what happened to Arya.
They've also still got Joffrey's wedding to prepare. It sounds like they won't have it next episode, but we've been winding up for it all season, basically. I hope we see a little of Diana Rigg again before the season ends--she will probably have some unhelpful remarks to make about the Red Wedding to Sansa.
- Most fans are under the assumption that Joffrey's wedding will take place sometime during the first half of Season 4. Chronologically, it makes more sense than to have it in this season. They still need to introduce a couple of characters before the wedding can take place.
- Will we see Joffrey's wedding next episode or not? Anybody have any idea?
I doubt Edmure was getting laid. I think once they got him out of that room he went right into chains. How many people at the wedding were in on it anyway? Did everybody know? All those daughters? Or just the people left in the room and all the soliders outside doing the slaughtering? I do wish the show could manage a bigger scope sometimes, since the slaughter of all of Robb's men was demoted to a single little table-full of drunks.
- I hope we get to see Oberyn Martell before the season is over. They've not announced casting him yet, so I doubt we will get to see him on Sunday, but it's a great part and this should be just about the point where he appears in the books.
- [quote]Will we see Joffrey's wedding next episode or not? Anybody have any idea?
No, it will not. Obviously. What would Season 4 have as far as huge dramatic moments if they showed that now? Plus it would be too rushed.
Red Wedding happened 2/3rds into "A Storm of Swords".
So that means Season 4 is based off the last third of that book with a little bit of Book 5 mixed in at the end.
- Actually r178, next season will be a dash of Return of the Jedi. Without giving any details or spoilers, there will be some just karmic retribution.
r288, I can’t wait to see who they cast as Oberyn Martell. He’s one of my favorite characters, and the Martells are my favorite family in the Seven Kingdom.
- I think it's important for the viewers to understand how devastating this was for the North in general. It wasn't just Robb and his family that died. Most of the heads of the noble houses of the North and the Riverlands were in attendance at this wedding.
So not only did the Lannisters, Freys and Boltons eliminate House Stark but many of the other nobles as well. House Stark AND House Tully were crippled in this brutal assault. Now House Bolton stands as the most powerful family in the North and House Frey as the most powerful family in the Riverlands.
In one single act, the entire political map of Westeros has dramatically changed. Get over the shock of the act and start thinking about the ramifications of that act. It's far worse than you think.
- I don't think GRRM has four years to come out with a new book. I think Seasons 4 & 5 will get us pretty much caught up, and I honestly can't see HBO going beyond 5 or 6 seasons with this.
I don't care how successful it is. Viewership will start to fall off after next season, and this show is extremely expensive to produce. They have to figure out the way to wrap it up.
Since Theon is a train wreck and Robb is dead, the only the will have to rely on Jon Snow and Dany to attract the young audience that Robb Stark & Theon had. Tyrion is popular too.
GRRM said he was taking into account the way the HBO series was developing and which story lines and characters were stronger as a result and he definitely wants the next books to be consistent with the series.
That tells me that he may be resigned to not having the final book ready for publication until the show ends. So I see him doing one more now and then another when it ends.
- Damn, it is so sad to see Robb and Talissa's baby get killed first by that bastard who stabbed her stomach. :(
- Does anyone know how the filming is scheduled? I would assume that much of the next season is already filmed. It would seem like you only want to go on location in Iceland or Dubrovnik once.
It can't go too many more seasons before they will have killed off every working actor in the UK. Come Season 6 I'll be watching for Rowan Atkinson to show up at King's Landing.
- [quote]I think Seasons 4 & 5 will get us pretty much caught up, and I honestly can't see HBO going beyond 5 or 6 seasons with this.
This has been the most successful series HBO has had in years, and they haven't begin to exploit it for product franchisement yet. It would have to nosedive in the ratings for them not to keep it going for quite a while longer.
[quote]Since Theon is a train wreck and Robb is dead, the only the will have to rely on Jon Snow and Dany to attract the young audience that Robb Stark & Theon had. Tyrion is popular too.
Even if there were just Jon, Dany, and Tyrion, that would be more than enough. But Arya is a huge fan favorite (with young people and not young people), and so is Brienne of Tarth. And Sansa has many fans too. That's plenty to keep the series going--plus there are still more characters who have yet to be introduced.
- [quote]House Stark AND House Tully were crippled in this brutal assault. Now House Bolton stands as the most powerful family in the North and House Frey as the most powerful family in the Riverlands.
The head of house Tully, the Blackfish, is still alive and back at Riverrun.
- [quote]The head of house Tully, the Blackfish, is still alive and back at Riverrun.
One man does not a House make. The Freys are the strongest and most powerful family in the Riverlands now.
- Treachery like the Red Wedding has a price. Tyrion knows it. Tywin made a desperate mistake, staining the family name forever and getting in bed with pitbulls like the Freys and Boltons.
- Are you sure, r296? Did he send you a raven;)
- If the Blackfish had been at the Red Wedding (and killed there), we would have seen him there.
- [quote]The head of house Tully, the Blackfish, is still alive and back at Riverrun.
In the book, yes, but the show had him at the wedding with the others. It wasn't clear what happened to him, though.
- Side note: Rumor has it "Roz" was killed off because the actress didn't want to continue to get naked. This is according Charlie Chaplin's granddaughter (Robb's wife). She didn't name the actress, but everyone concluded it was her.
- [quote]I don't think GRRM has four years to come out with a new book. I think Seasons 4 & 5 will get us pretty much caught up, and I honestly can't see HBO going beyond 5 or 6 seasons with this.
There are two more published books after the one they are in now. Book 3 will continue through much of season 4. I don't think they could get two seasons each out of books 4 and 5, but they certainly won't be able to adapt them both in a season and a half so they have material at least into season 6. Martin could have the next book out next year or the year after -- it sounds like he is getting this one done much faster now that he's past the problem that delayed the last one. The problem is, they will surely catch up to him before he publishes book 7, and that's the climax of the whole thing.
They also have the problem that books 4 and 5 are just not as good as the first three books -- they overcomplicate the series with even more characters and plot lines, and yet nothing seems to move forward.
- [quote]Jon’s last shot made him look like a coward. Ygritte protected him against her own people, and he ran off and left her behind, probably to be killed.
Yeah, well, here's my question about that scene. Jon doesn't immediately cut the old man's head off and so Orell jumps straight to the conclusion that Snow is still loyal to the crows (which was accurate, but still..) They all start fighting and then suddenly, two of the wildlings are attacked by big-ass DIREWOLVES, that look suspiciously like the ones that belong to Bran and Rickon. Wouldn't Jon have recognized them? But even still....direwolves. Jon himself noted that you never saw them around anymore, back in the first episode.
So, with that in mind, is it possible that Jon took off because he knew his little brothers were close by and he was trying to draw Tormund and co. into a chase to get them away from the area? Otherwise, how could he NOT realize those direwolves were from House Stark?
- Just watched it.
Before the season started, I read lots of anxious chatter on Tumblr about the "Red Wedding." Now I know what that means.
Shocked the fuck outta me!
- Blackfish was at the wedding, r300. He told Catelyn that he was going out to piss on a tree and left. Right after that one of the Frey guards closed the doors to the hall and the wedding band from hell started playing a really creepy version of The Rains of Castamere. Lord Bolton sat down next to Cat and she noticed something was not right with his ensemble. She discreetly lifted up the sleeve of his coat to reveal that he was wearing chainmail. She punched him in the face and yelled out to get Rob's attention and that is when one of the Frey bros got stabby on Talisa. It is assumed that Blackfish was outside when the bloodbath started and he saw the Tully and Stark bannermen being ambushed. it is possible that he died fighting the Frey men in the camp or he could just be wounded and has managed to get away to Riverrun. We will know soon enough.
- I told you THEN so I wouldn't have to tell you NOW but alas....
Here, have some SPOILERS:
SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS SPOILERS
GAME OF THRONES SPOILERS!
DON'T READ THIS IF YOU DON'T LIKE SPOILERS!
THERE ARE SPOILERS ALL UP IN HERE!
SPECIAL TODAY: SPOILERS FOR HOUSEFRAUEN!
Stannis and his troops take over the Wall where the Red Woman wants to play King's Blood Wickerman.
Arya goes to Braavos and trains to become one of the Faceless Men - the assassins.
Ygritte's going to die soon, I forget how.
Caitlin Stark isn't dead. She re-animates and traipses around in a hooded cape as a revenge monster.
Joffrey gets assassinated at his wedding to Margery - poisoned by Gramma Tyrell.
Margery marries Joffrey's younger brother, the new king, or tries to marry him. These books are so old I can't remember if she does or not. I'll go with yes, she does.
Now fuck off.
- I really hadn't been moved by anything on tv like hat since Adrianna's murder on the Sopranos.
- [quote]I really hadn't been moved by anything on tv like hat since Adrianna's murder on the Sopranos.
Great comparison. Adriana's murder on The Sopranos was the one that hit me the hardest. It was so depressing to watch, especially since we know Christopher was in on it too.
- Much as I hate the old fucker, Filch did a great job of playing Walder Frey. That look he gave Robb after he brought out the Miranda Kerr of Westeros was priceless. Gran's violent end on True Blood bummed me out, r308. And if Alan Ball hadn't given Lafayette a reprieve, because he liked the character, I would have been devastated. I have to say that I have watched the episode three times in the past two days and I have cried harder each time. It was so beautifully acted and no one gave anything away, even though it had to be incredibly emotional for the actors to play.
- For being a murderous Wilding, Tormund Giantsbane is a good man. I'm glad Jon finally killed Orell. He was annoying and horrifically ugly.
- I can't believe the actor who plays Jojen Reed is 21. Same with Joffrey's actor. WTF.
- [quote] I'm glad Jon finally killed Orell. He was annoying and horrifically ugly.
I could never see him as anything other than the wacky pirate with the wooden eye in "Pirates of the Carribean".
- Grey Worm kinda looks like Obama.
- I love me some Tormund Giantsbane, r311. His voice is so sexy and I love his Viking ginger look. And his "fatherly" advice to Jon Snow on how to properly sex a woman cracked me up. By all the Gods, old and new, I hope the man makes it to season four.
- The actor who plays Roose Bolton has a great voice.
- [quote]I could never see him as anything other than the wacky pirate with the wooden eye in "Pirates of the Carribean".
He'll always be "Gareth" from "The Office" to me.
- Yeah [R312] it must suck to e 21 but look 14--if you're a guy, that is.
- I will never watch this episode again. I never watched the Ned beheading one again either.
- You sound fragile and delicate!
- [quote]I will never watch this episode again. I never watched the Ned beheading one again either.
- Fuck you. I'm not an idiot I just know that rewatching those episodes would never have the same emotional impact again.
- [quote]I must be in the minority, but I tonight was a much needed house cleaning. Rob Stark was boring, and I hated his wife.
[quote]In fact, let's keep going and do some wholesale pruning up around the wall.
Seriously. I'm all for some more pruning. Until the finale I kept thinking that it was a rather dry episode. And as for all of the viewers who are so emotional with crying and what not: Damn...
- I don't see anything wrong with wanting a somewhat happy ending. Mind would be the remaining starks reunite in the last season and create a nightmare for the other kingdoms. They could all die at the end, as long as they get revenge. Kill me for feeling for the Starks, but I like to root for people that are the most descent. If you want to call me a dumb American then have a party.
- I get not wanting to watch this episode a second time. I thought it was brilliantly done, but it was pretty harrowing. I watched it a second time last night, eager, in particular, to see Michelle Fairley's amazing last few minutes. But the closer it got to the big moment, the more my gut got tied in knots, dreading it.
BTW, Fairley totally deserves an Emmy for that weird final scream and that moment where she basically died even before the knife touched her throat. Holy hell, that was brilliant.
- What i find wonderful about the show is that we saw Tywin forcing unwanted marriages on his children, and we are all supposed to think of him as a huge monster, but ...
Robb Stark moronically married Talisa, and his family was not strong enough or ruthless enough to force him to do the prudent thing (fuck her and dump her, or what have you).
Now, he is DEAD. Tyrion and Cersei are not.
So in a way, Tywin's ruthlessness and obsession with family is strangely beneficial to his family's wellbeing.
It's like - Robb Stark would still be alive if his mother and/or father were more like Tywin.
- I love love love the casting of Daario Naharis.
He's such an annoying pretty boy, it's so perfect.
- I know I'm supposed to feel sympathy for Jorah but I find him to be quite annoying. Dany doesn't want him yet he keeps pining away like an idiot. She's a young girl and he's a grizzly old man.
I'm happy Dany has someone around her own age now to be with.
- I don't find Daario attractive at all. He looks like a game show host with that goofy smirk, the dimples and the too white teeth.
- What kind of game shows are YOU watching, r329????
- It's a good point r326 but in the book Robb has sex with Talisa (Jayne Poole in the book) before they are married. She is the nurse caring for him after he got injured in battle and during his care they became attracted to each other and they fuck. If he did not make it right she could call him out for it and tarnish his name. So being the Stark that he is, he does the honorable thing and marries her. In the book it looks like she may have been a spy who was told to hook Rob in order to bring about the ending to the alliance with the Frey's and in so doing creating the circumstances that led to the Red Wedding.
So Robb's dick fucked him over, not permissive parenting.
- In the book it was Jeyne Westerling's mother who made the deal with Tywin, not Jeyne herself. Jeyne was a pawn in the whole thing. As much as people lamented the role change with Talisa, I preferred her to the mousy, boring Jeyne in the book.
- For R330. I give you John Davidson, game show host extraordinaire:
- HBO, the writers and GRRM are all beyond happy right now. HBO doesn't run off of ratings like a network does. They don't make money off of advertisements. They need new subscriptions. The more buzz a show has, the more people are attracted to HBO.
So from just this alone, I'm sure they've bought themselves another 2 more seasons at least.
The internet community helps a lot too. When the Sopranos were on social media wasn't as big as it is now. So I can see GoT lasting for a long time if they can still keep buzz going and with the upcoming storylines I think they will.
- That looks nothing like Ed Skrein/Daario Neharis.
Ed is a hot, hot man. I don't care what anyone says. I like his cocky arrogance as well. Dany's scenes got a lot more interesting now that there's some man candy to look at.
- Any show with Diana Rigg in a wimple describing a gay character as "a sword swallower, through and through" is worth our time.
- R331 Talisa from the books was Jeyne Westerling. Jeyne Poole was Sansa's friend.
- R335, you miss the point. It's not comparing them on hotness but that both give off that "perfect" game show vibe. I agree that something about Daario comes off as very fake and too perfect to be that appealing. I haven't read the books but it seems like he's too good to be true and will cause Dany troubles on her way to Westeros. I could see him and Jorah sparring and a love struck Dany siding with Daario. Things are going to good for Dany right now...
- There were a lot of reactions to this weekend's episode of "Game of Thrones" ... shocking, violent, traumatizing ... but the chick who plays Queen Cersei tells TMZ the ep was nothing short of "beautiful."
Looking less like a sociopathic power-hungry killer ... and more like an overalls-wearing hipster, Lena Headey hit up The Grove in L.A. yesterday when we talked about Sunday's infamous "red wedding."
Headey didn't seem bothered by the fact the throat-cutting wasn't as realistic as it could've been ... instead she praised the show as a thing of beauty.
Word is ... something HUUUGE is gonna happen in the next episode -- so don't be that person who whines about spoilers the next day ... and get caught up!!!
It's what Cersei would want.
- "Word is ... something HUUUGE is gonna happen in the next episode..."
Are they talking about me?
- R321, don't pick on R319. I know what he means. I love THE SOPRANOS and I own all the dvds, but I won't watch the one where Adriana gets killed or the one where Dr. Melfi is raped. Adriana was my favorite character and that murder was awful. The one where Dr. Melfi gets raped is brutal and I have no need to see that again. Like I've only seen SCHINDLER'S LIST, BOYS DON'T CRY, and SEVEN once. There just some scenes that disturb people. They're not being a Mary. Its not he's saying he won't watch an episode of SMALL WONDER or MAMA'S FAMILY.
I know its fiction, but the thought of a pregnant woman being repeatedly stabbed in the stomach is horrific. If her throat had been slit, it might be different, but the way that guy did that was savage. Inhuman, even.
- I didn't really react to the pregnancy stabbing because the actress wasn't very good.
- R342 here! After noticing quite a few grammatical errors I just wanted to say that Robb was stupid and kind of rude to bring his pregnant wife to the Twins. Not that what happened was justified, though.
- R344, it's not even in the book. She doesn't go and she isn't killed. She isn't even pregnant.
- And she isn't named Talisa either! The nerve.
- I know and wasn't it a completely different character. Jeyne Westerling or something like that.
- [quote]Dany doesn't want him yet he keeps pining away like an idiot. She's a young girl and he's a grizzly old man.
And that [italic]never[/italic] happens in real life, and everyone can [italic]always[/italic] control their feelings and attractions...
- I think GoT has more in common with I, Claudius than the Sopranos. The scene where Caligula rips his unborn child from Drusilla's belly (his sister/lover) and consumes it because he believes that he is Zeus and is jealous that the child will become more powerful than he is has to be the sickest thing I've ever seen on televison. That was thirty-seven years ago on PBS. The stabbing of Talisa's pregnant belly is more horrific because of the blood and gore. But the effect is the same.
- [quote]"Word is ... something HUUUGE is gonna happen in the next episode..."
I don't see how that can be right. There's not enough time in one epsiode to fit in the next huge event from the books--it would take up most of the entire episode, but they have to squeeze in people reacting to the Red Wedding next episode (as well as finish out the storyline in Yunkai and elsewhere) before they can have that next big event.
- Now that the initial shock and rage of the episode is beginning to subside, people are starting to talk about the epic genius of it. GRRM, the producers and HBO are very, very happy right now.
God, True Blood really tanked when GoT came on the scene, didn't it? I wonder if they're jealous of GoT's success while they're show has floundered creatively and ratings wise.
- There is a very big event that could happen in the next episode that is unrelated to King's Landing and has everything to do with the fallout from the Red Wedding. It would actually make for a fitting finale seeing as how it would tie back to something that happened earlier this season.
- I have read the books and I cannot for the life of me figure out what r352 is alluding to.
- R353, let me drop the word "stone" and maybe that will jog your memory.
- [quote]people are starting to talk about the epic genius of it.
See, this is what I can't stand--now it's "epic genius." Nothing about this series is genius--it merely upset expectations which, given the history of the fantasy genre in mass entertainment, weren't very high.
And really, rhe longer you read him, the worse the work seems. Yes, it's very complicated. Yes, the "world building" is very complete. But so much of the writing is pedestrian or worse, and the level of minutiae involved can become really numbing. I'm not saying people shouldn't enjoy it, but I find it amusing that people bitch about the "pointlessness" of Ulysses, for example, but can make their way through the many pages of excruciating detail and meandering plot of Martin's books. To make things even worse, the tone of the books deteriorates as time goes on, markedly more adolescent in the last volume. There's little artful discernment involved, just a kind of Renfest plunge into the muck, with the relentlessness of the die-hard geek who's decided everyone's going to get a snootfull of his expertise on how awful life in a preindustrial culture can be. Whoopee.
Before he's a genius, he needs to learn how to tell a story, which is not the same thing as dragging it out with countless subplots and family trees. As it is, he is very talented but extremely undisciplined, with what discipline he's got waning rapidly with time.
- Oh you think, r354? I guess that could happen. I figured they'd hold that card for a bit but that could make a killer last scene.
- True Blood fans will have reason enough to hate the show runners and HBO if a major spoiler concerning a VERY popular character is true, r351. Jealousy over the success of GoT will be the least of their problems for the people on that show. I don't think you can compare True Blood to GoT. TB never pretends to be more than what it is. A modern and very inventive take on an old story. And it is perfect summer entertainment. I am looking forward to watching something that doesn't give me nightmares. Just wet dreams:----)
- The only criticism I have of Martin's writing is this -- Critics of the show chastise the use of gratuitous sex and nudity but if they actually read the books they'd see that Martin's writing is much more perverted. He writes women from a very sexual place.
There were entire passages from Dany and Cersei where they talk, in depth, about their wet pussies and how they need to have sex NOW and result to using other women to satisfy their carnal needs. He has a hard on for Dany in particular and cannot write about her without describing her perky tits or moistening clam. It's really weird, especially when you picture Martin sitting there writing this. Gross.
There is also a sexist twinge to his writing. I understand this takes place in a world that cares little for feminist ideals but he makes female characters that are dependent on men or when they do strike out on their own, they make stupid mistakes. The only truly feminist characters I can think of in the whole series is Arya and Brienne but even Brienne is wrapped up in men...first Renly, then Jaime.
- In that case, I'm very glad the TV show does the women characters so much more justice, R358. I've only seen the show, not read the books, and the more I read about the books, the less I want to read them.
- My criticism is a small one and I would definitely recommend reading the series to anyone. It might seem daunting given that the books all sit at about 1000 pages each, but it's not tiresome or difficult to read through. It's highly enjoyable and a good summer read.
- R358, not mention the one city (forget the name) where all of the women walk around with one breast hanging out.
- R354, that'd be the perfect way to end the season. The only option would be the next wedding and that'd be too rushed for this season.
Plus, the impact would be greater now then it would be if it happens next season when most people will have moved on compared to now.
- I read the first book, but for whatever reason, I didn't get into it. But I love the show.
- Okay, I'm going to give it a shot and see if I can guess what is going to happen based on the very discreet clues that have been posted here. This is mere SPECULATION on my part. I'm thinking it has something to do with the curses that were placed on Robb Stark, Greyjoy and Joffrey Baratheon by Melisandre at Dragonstone. Since the curse was meant for Robb, the Lord of Light is none too pleased that Cat, Talisa and her baby were collateral damage. One of them will be given the opportunity to exact an eye for an eye on either Frey, Bolton or Tywin Lannister, or all three, before moving on to the other world or just the black void of death. Or, the Lord of Light is going to punish Melisandre in some way for using her power for darker purposes. Perhaps by stripping her of her powers and rendering her useless to Stannis and therefore expendable. She is declared a Witch and is burned as a sacrifice to the old Gods as a sign of good faith that Stannis has returned to the old ways. Am I close?
- You're way off about Melissandre! Plus, isn't he popular? Her death wouldn't be a good way to please those that are angry over Robb/Catelyn dying. Seasons 1 ended with the dragons being born which was a good way to please those angry over Ned being killed.
You're in the right area with your first theory though.
- [quote]He has a hard on for Dany in particular and cannot write about her without describing her perky tits or moistening clam. It's really weird, especially when you picture Martin sitting there writing this. Gross.
Eeeeew! Just look at this troll and you can begin to understand why he needed to create a fantasy world where he can write about what he will NEVER have.
- [quote]let me drop the word "stone" and maybe that will jog your memory.
Have a heart!
- Okay don't spoil you guys. They can wait a week.
- I hated Daario Naharis in the books but I love him on the show. Sexy as all hell and charming to boot.
- Clearly, I'm in the minority, but I hate Arya.
- R355, I know what you mean. The books are a compulsive read, but they're not great literature. So much of the last two books was just padding, and clearly no one edits Martin's work any more.
- Yeah, I hope they don't include Bran's Journey into Tree World. Yawn.
However it seems it's going to culminate in an epic brawl between all the women: Dany, Melisandre, Cersei, and possibly Arya and the White Walkers. At least I hope so.
- [quote]Yeah, I hope they don't include Bran's Journey into Tree World. Yawn.
Well, it is kind of important for the overall storyline. The great thing about television is that you can reduce a lot of the boring introspective moments and get right down to it.
I'm hoping that's what they do for Brienne's storyline because after she brings Jaime back to Kingslanding her story takes a dramatic downturn towards snoozeville in "A Feast for Crows".
"Feast for Crows" is considered the weakest book in the series by most fans by and large because Martin spends WAY too much time on Brienne's boring journey. Cersei and her INSANE POV chapters are the only redeeming aspect of that book. It was the first time we got to see things from her perspective and boy, did it deliver. Bitch is crazed! It reads like a character study into the quintessential borderline personality disorder woman.
- I like "Game of Thrones". I DVR it and usually watch it on Sunday night or within a couple of days. It's very entertaining.
It's not a genre I go for but I read most of the books years ago. I have the latest one but haven't gotten around to it yet. I will probably read it on the beach this Summer.
What I don't understand is the obsession level of the posters on this thread. It's bizarre.
Most of you are NOT gay men, right?
- There is a very notorious subset of gay men that are into "nerdy" things like fantasy, sci-fi and comic books. Gaymers are a close cousin to them.
Why is it so hard for people to grasp that gay men come in all different varieties?
- Old Shagga @r374 is also the Spoiler troll @r307 and is obsessed with rooting out how many of us are really Gay. He's a one man straight hatin machine. He's also one of the sickest individuals to show up on DL in quite a while. Major anger management issues. References the Prancing Ponies so he can't be that young. Which would explain alot. Engage it at your own risk.
- R373, I actually got bored with Cersei's perspective, which I wouldn't have thought prior to reading a Feast for Crows. That books just drags. It was interesting to see Cersei's mindset be so completely different to how she comes across to others, but I don't know how that will translate to TV.
I didn't mind the Brienne story - at least she was off in the world doing something, and I want to know what happens with her and Jaime's story arc.
- George R.R.Martin is on Conan tonight at 11pm with a repeat showing on the East coast at 12:30am. Alexander Skarsgard is also on this show. Sounds like a good one.
- I have this image that the devotees of Game Of Thrones haven't seen much beyond the XBOX role playing video games they waste their hours on. You all need to expand your horizons. There's some good stuff dramatic stuff out there beside a glorified medi-evil soap opera.
- well, r379, considering that "Game of Thrones" is one of the most popular and talked about shows right now, there must be A LOT of people that you don't approve of. Thankfully no one lives their lives to your standards. Must be sad to be so inconsequential.
Maybe if you got off your high horse and stop putting other people down for enjoying harmless things then you might find true happiness in your life.
- Last episode is called Mhysa which means mother. I wonder...
Does anyone else want to see Osha & Hodor fuck?
- Trying to add humor to that ending is a fool's errand... but this mashup really works (SPOILERS FOR THIS EPISODE, IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THIS EPISODE, DON'T CLICK THE LINK):
The ending of the episode:
- One of the better mashups in R383... (giggling)
- [quote]What I don't understand is the obsession level of the posters on this thread. It's bizarre.
Most of you are NOT gay men, right?
Right, because as gay men, we never obsess about anything. (rolls eyes)
I'm with R355 and R371. I'm in the middle of the first book and it's slow going. I also happen to be reading Cormac McCarthy's 'Blood Meridian' at the same time. I pick up Game of Thrones when I have to put down the other one for a week to clear the images of baby head splattering from my mind.
But going from McCarthy's exquisite prose to Martin's rather prosaic form is like night to fucking day. I'm thinking of jumping ahead to the third book so I can read what's coming for season 4 of the series.
- That is brilliant, R383.
- FINALLY, the "If Game of Thrones happened on Facebook" entry for this episode is posted!!
I laughed out loud a few times... this is awesome:
- Thanks for the link (and the laughs) r383. Most excellent, it was.
- I'm just happy that poor Hodor doesn't have to lug Bran around on his back anymore, r382. Sex with Osha would probably break it. Although, I have to say, there is a sexy, butch quality to Osha that I find VERY attractive. She's also quite funny. I wouldn't throw her out of bed.
- [quote]I'm just happy that poor Hodor doesn't have to lug Bran around on his back anymore
... he doesn't?
- No, he pushes him around in that wheel barrel:)
- And who are you, the proud lord said,
that I must bow so low?
Only a cat of a different coat,
that's all the truth I know.
In a coat of gold or a coat of red,
a lion still has claws,
And mine are long and sharp, my lord,
as long and sharp as yours.
And so he spoke, and so he spoke,
that lord of Castamere,
But now the rains weep o'er his hall,
with no one there to hear.
Yes now the rains weep o'er his hall,
and not a soul to hear.
- For R392.
- Other things in this episode....
What about the fat guy finding out obsidian knives kill the wraiths?
- yes but fat ass left the knife and ran. Fool.
- Yes but in a much earlier episode, didn't fat guy and his fellow "crows" find a cache of those glass knife things hidden under some rock ? Maybe now would be a good time to find them?
- Wow you guys are so smart, I can't imagine that the writers of the show even remember that they had that giant bag of knives show up on-screen, they were definitely NEVER going to show them again.
- Also enjoyed watching the growing friendship between Brienne and Jamie.
Love the character development. Small moments like Cerse looking wistfully at Diana Rigg as they talked...you got the sense of how much she missed having a mother...and it helped explain her hatred of her dwarf brother.
I do not enjoy the various torture scenes and the filming of atrocities.
- Oh Shit, I Totally Forgot That Happens!
By George R.R. Martin
- [quote]The central conflict, Stark vs. Lannister, is now over
Exactly. I was waiting for an epic battle of sorts.
I don't want Robb dead because he was eye candy and kind.
I don't want Caitlyn dead because I liked her character.
Can someone please tell me what season/episode Ned Stark died in? I missed it.
- Season 1, episode 9, R401
- Thank you R402 :)
- [quote]The central conflict, Stark vs. Lannister, is now over
It's true that the Stark versus Lannister fight in the War of Five Kings is over, but there are still other Starks at this point in the story left who could rally the houses in the North to fight the Lannisters again: Bran, Rickon, Sansa, and Arya.
- Actually, the most important struggle is "The Song of Ice (The Others) and Fire (The Dragons)"
The petty lords of Westeros play their games while the two biggest threats to the Seven Kingdoms lay north of The Wall and east of the Narrow Sea.
- r405, if you've read the books, there are two other possibilities. That the song of ice is Jon Snow and the song of Fire Daenerys, and the battle is between those two. Or it very well could be that it is ALL Jon Snow. If you've read the books, you know why.
- Ill never watch GoT again so someone please tell me how 'King' Joffrey meets his end. Thanks.
- r407, why don't you just google "Joffrey Baratheon" if you truly wanted to know that answer. No need to post future plot points on here.
- Or R407 could look back at 307 (not linking to for the spoiler-averse) since someone already posted it earlier in this thread.
- I'm not done with the show but I've lost a lot of enthusiasm and respect for the producers/writers. The stabbing of the pregnant belly was over the top gruesome and unnecessary. It's been almost a week and I'm still not over itt. I KNOW IT WAS FAKE. I will never watch A Serbian Film because it shows a grown man raping an infant in graphic detail. There are some things that should be off limits and people are just pushing the limits for shock value. It's gross.
- [quote]Ill never watch GoT again so someone please tell me how 'King' Joffrey meets his end. Thanks.
Sorry, I couldn't understand what you were typing over the sound of the whiney baby crying like a pathetic bitch.
- Go soak your head, whiny pussy bitch at r407.
- I'm with R410. I cover my eyes for some of the shock value scenes in GOT.
To completely nerd-out...isn't the struggle bigger than any one king? Wraiths, dragons, the god of light vs death....I don't know if there is a single central conflict.
As engaging as i find the show ....It is also not necessarily a well-crafted work of art.
Any readers of the book know?
- Does anyone really think that Martin will finish the series?
He's 64 but looks like he has bacon shakes for breakfast.
- How do book readers feel it will end meaning the book series? There are two more book coming out.
- Without giving any plot points I think this upcoming book, Winds of Winter, is going to be an epic bloodbath.
They have a lot of characters right now and I think Martin is going to cull the herd somewhat before the final book, A Dream of Spring, starts which I think will mostly address the apocalyptic aspects like the White Walkers and the invading dragon forces.
- He must be able to afford a personal trainer so get to it. I want more GOT!
That last episode was great. The red wedding was shocking and sad all at once, though Rob's loss is not great to me. He was a fairly boring character. Disappointed about Caitlin and the idea that the Starks are no longer a force.
Someone please kill the following very soon:
4. Theon (if only to put him out of his misery)
- I think it'll be really interesting when the show starts passing the books in the storyline. I wonder if any of the book-readers will cry "no spoilers!" and try to avoid the show until the last book is out..
- r417, one of those four will definitely kick the bucket next season. Spoiler-phobic bitches, SHUT UP! I didn't say any names.
- Everyone know a certain someone...
Will not happy a very happy honeymoon ...
- I just started watching this show after I saw this thread and read the reactions to the Red Wedding. Damn, I'm hooked. I did a marathon viewing of all three seasons. Was there a tenth episode in the third season? If so, it's not on On Demand. I don't understand why it's not there. Unless the season ended with Red Wedding?
- There is a tenth episode called Mhysa. It's the season finale. Do you have HBO Go? You can watch it there as well as all three seasons. Anytime you want. I have Time Warner and it's on our On Demand. Call your cable company and ask what the problem is.