- Thanks, OP-- I can't wait!
- Will it be on HBO Go right away after the premiere?
- Glad to know this movie apparently isn't a mess. Looking forward to checking it out tonight.
- Hopefully this airs before Mad Men? Is it two hours?
- If I have to miss the next episode of Game of Thrones it might as well be for something enthralling and entertaining. The music in the previews sounds fantastic. Looking forward to it.
- [quote] Will it be on HBO Go right away after the premiere?
That's my question as well
- Candelabra starts at 9pm and is repeated at 11pm. Mad Men is repeated at 11pm as well. You can watch both. The movie will probably be on HBO on Demand after midnight. And it will be repeated numerous times for the next month. Plenty of opportunities to see it.
- Some of us only have access to HBO Go, R7.
- How can you have access to HBO GO only.. You have to subscribe to HBO to get HBO GO. Unless of course your dishonest and using someone's else's account in which case you will burn in hell.
- Well, for me, R9, that's not the case. I have HBO, but I'm traveling.
- I'm a big fan of Michael Douglas. He makes interesting movies with surprisingly few outright duds. I'm looking forward to this.
- R9 thinks his shit doesn't stink..even though he uses someone else's Netflix account and thinks that is perfectly okay.
- Can't wait to see Matt and Michael exchange saliva.
- Where will those of us without HBO be able to see it?
Popping the popcorn as I type
I w as wondering to R 14 HBO on demand maybe ?
- So, I assume an Emmy lock for Douglas?
- more straight actors taking gay roles. not interested.
- Why is Steven Soderbourgh giving up directing what ???
- Saw a screening of it last night at the Castro. Didn't expect to like it since I have a hard time with Michael Douglas. But it was great. Douglas is really too old for the part, but he made it work, and Matt Damon looked terrific. Also, Rob Lowe is hilarious.
I wish they had been able to find a studio to release it. The performances are all Oscar quality.
- [quote]Mr. Douglas, in particular, does a fantastic ... impression that doesn't get in the way of showing ... loneliness, his sense of entitlement and his rapacious appetite for younger
I'd like to think I had a little part in this...
- "Also, Rob Lowe is hilarious."
Who does he play in the movie?
- If you have access to HBO GO the movie will be available as soon as it has premiered on HBO
HBO Premier 9-11PM
HBO GO 11PM ET
HBO GO 8PM PT
Rob Lowe plays Liberace's plastic surgeon
Debbie Reynolds plays Liberace's mother
- I'm guessing the caftans will be sequined and the earrings opulent---and that's just what the viewing audience will be wearing.
- r14 Piratebay.
- [quote]I wish they had been able to find a studio to release it
It's very telling that even though it has a big name cast and director and is supposedly oscar quality no studio wanted to touch it simply because it is too gay. Shows where we still are. Good for HBO for embracing it.
- I'm watching but I wonder how big of an audience it will have. There may be a lot of people who don't know who Liberace is and won't tune in to find out.
The movie has an all star cast. HBO will be running the movie multiple times over the next few weeks. I am sure the ratings will be great just given the pedigree of the actors.
I predict that the film will also receive multiple Emmy Nominations too.
- How can this be "too gay" and something like Brokeback isn't. Is it the characterization - the flamboyant gay vs. every day gay man. Is it because it's dealing with an actual person, rather than fictional characters.
Soderberg was on Fresh Air on NPR and basically said that no studio thought it would play beyond gay men and a few women, so it just didn't make business sense. I can see some merit to that claim, but it's an easy excuse.
BTW, I really thought Terry Gross, who I normally really like, sort of flubbed the interview. Her insistence on using "queens" repeatedly was bizarre, like she wanted us to know that she knows the lingo.
That interview was an example of why there needed to be a gay person in the discussion. Terry asked Soderberg about Liberace's career and how he could be so popular when it was so apparent that he was a homosexual. Soderberg dutifully answered, "because people just didn't care." I would have said that people were able to put his sexuality to the side because he was so over-the-top ridiculous, something they could laugh at, and even if they didn't laugh at him, his actual sexuality was never presented, so they could put it out of their mind. He didn't talk about boyfriends and trysts, he didn't appear publicly with whomever he was dating. If they "didn't care" there was a reason they didn't care - he was the classic asexual, non-threatening gay man.
- Apparently all those raving critics are under 40 years old. If you're over 50 and can actually remember Liberace, Douglas is not nearly queeny enough, especially on stage. (Debbie Reynolds, who knew Liberace and who plays his mother in this, told Douglas something like "Your voice can't possibly be queeny enough.") Even if he was more masculine off stage - and that's a big IF - Douglas is still too masculine on stage.
Here's one trailer:
- [quote]Where will those of us without HBO be able to see it?
Go to another country where it's being released to theaters.
- Old str8 reviewers always love gay minstrel shows where str8 actors parade around mincing away and chewing the scenery. It's funny just like Amos N Andy was back in grandpa's day when it was on the radio performed by white men. Welcome to the dark ages gays!
- Was it not originally made for HBO?
- Can't fucking wait!
The movie was shopped to various studios in Hollywood. None of them were willing to back it given the explicit gay themes even though it starred Michael Douglas and Matt Damon, was directed by Steven Soderbergh and was produced by Jerry Weintraub, all Hollywood A List
HBO was the only one willing to give it a chance. Speaks volumes regarding gay filmmaking in the US.
- Given what is released by the movie studios, the fact that Behind The Candelabra couldn't find a distributor is depressing. I guess Liberace and Scott should have shot at their audiences and then fled to be pursued by Bruce Willis hoping to wear their toupees.
- I remember watching Liberace on television with my Mother in the Fifties. She was absolutely in awe of his piano playing. And truth be told, she probably had a bit of a crush on him. I remember the candelabra and the white piano and the tails. I knew there was something "different" about him, after all, he wasn't Jackie Gleason or Sid Ceasar or Red Skelton, or like any of the other entertainers who we watched on television back then, but I didn't see it as being something threatening or abnormal. He just talked funny. I can't recall my Mother ever commenting on his flamboyancy or ever implying that there was something strange about his dismeanor. She was a smart and sophisticated woman and would have certainly known he was homosexual, but like Soderbergh says, she just didn't care.
- What R11 said.
- "dismeanor" Oh, dear.
- I want to see some BARE PLUMP MATT DAMON ASSSS!
- I don't like Michael Douglas at all but I will watch it for camp and Damon Butt.
- [quote]Douglas is not nearly queeny enough, especially on stage. (Debbie Reynolds, who knew Liberace and who plays his mother in this, told Douglas something like "Your voice can't possibly be queeny enough.") Even if he was more masculine off stage - and that's a big IF - Douglas is still too masculine on stage.
Michael Douglas knew Liberace. His father's home was just a few doors down from Liberace and Douglas said he knew Lee from neighborhood gatherings over the years.
Debbie Raynolds played Las Vegas at the same time as Liberace. They were friends and she knew his mother very well.
- We watched an old BATMAN episode last night, Lee (Liberace) himself was on playing twin crooks. Have you seen it? Ultra mega camp. He did an outstanding job as the bad guy enough so that everybody said he was a top.
- The Liberachi museum in Vegas closed due to lack of interest. Mostly older ladies visited who almost expected that very talented comedic entertainers, like Victor Borge and Elton John, were going to be over-the-top. That was part of their showmanship; they were on stage.
- [quote]The Liberachi museum in Vegas closed due to lack of interest.
Maybe nobody knew who Liberachi was...?
the Liberace museum being housed in a dreary strip-mall far from any other Las Vegas places of interest pretty much guaranteed low attendance numbers.
Years ago I visited with a friend, and we managed to offend the lovely elderly docent with our laughing. I asked her if it was true that Liberace died from AIDS, and she strongly denied that there was any truth to that cruel rumor. No, he died from the flu.
- The movie is about an old chicken hawk and his prey.
- Despite OP's excerpt, the NY Times review is negative, so it may be that HBO picked up Behind the Candelabra when every movie distributor passed because the movie isn't very good.
And there is certainly a question about how many people in the 19-49 year old range will want to watch a film about someone they barely know or care about. If this was a first-rate film would it be showing on the Sunday of Memorial Day weekend?
- It received raves an Cannes.
- OP is the same flack who started the thread a few days ago telling us that this lame movie was going to "clean up" at Cannes this year. It won NOTHING. Surprise! So he is now trying this new angle...the CRITICS LOVE IT!!!! Reality....NO THEY DON'T!!!!! It's a dumb piece of shit tv movie starring str8 guys mincing around the set in tacky outfits.
- I am so excited to see it I have my candelabra and champagne ready to go! I too couldn't imagine MD as Liberace, but from the limited trailer stuff I've seen, he appears to pull it off without looking ridiculous. And even though MD is years older than Scott Thorson was at the time, Damon has such a chubby baby face, if he were an unknown(then add lighting, prosthetics and makeup) I believe he could pass for 30-ish.
Plus, whether you like them or not, and I loathe Douglas, neither of them are hacks, so I bet they do the script justice.
They announced the 3 times it will be rerun after tonight, and I'm sorry I cannot quote the exact dates, but I'm almost sure that Tuesday night is the first time.
- Are people without HBO entirely out of luck?
- R48, It got 88% on Rotten Tomatoes, so I would say it did pretty well with critics.
- I"ve never seen much more than others doing impressions of Liberace and pictures of the man himself so I am having a difficult time understanding how a man described here on DL as being really flaming, got a TV show on the air during the what was it, the 60's? It is amazing any one was all right with putting him on the air. Who could get away with that now?
- [quote]Who could get away with that now?
- Not surprised that studios didn't want to finance it. They only market to straight young men and families; anything gay or female-centered won't get made. It's depressing.
- I've been waiting forever! I have my caftan and earrings on!
I wish there could be a Liberace revival. Too much of a good thing is . . . . wonderful!
- R52 Maybe I can expain it in a way that wi make some sense. In the Civil Rights Era, living in the south, I think it's fair to say that most folks over 40 weren't hoping to see Richard Pryor on Ed Sullivan Sunday night. But, there was a certain group of Black entertainers who crossed the line of bigotry and were loved by all
Nat King Cole
Johnny Mathis. White people liked them so much they gave them a racial pass. That was the same principle behind Liberace. He was so charming, talented and a hoot when he performed, that uptight WASPS just looked the other way, and they always put him at the top of their to do list in Vegas.
Had he not had such a sense of humor at his over the top queeniness, things might not have gone so well. Same for Paul Lynde...everyone loved him on Bewitched and Hollywood Squares and he was far more ribald than Liberace.
- Funny comment from a reader at the Guardian's review article:
melchisedek - I think I'll see Candelabra before Gatsby - except for the sexual orientation the plot is pretty much the same.
@melchisedek - oh, Liberace was a far more restrained, subtle and less vulgar artist than Baz Luhrmann
- r52, entertainers like Noel Coward, Liberace and Charles Nelson Reilly could camp it up all they wanted so long as they kept it asexual. It's a weird "don't ask, don't tell" arrangement between the performer and audience. "The Nance" gets that right.
- Rob Lowe is fucking PERFECT in this role. What a hoot.
I saw it, and I think the movie was perfectly cast. What a treat.
- Liberace's show was on TV in the 1950s. While he was camp for those times, he was low-key charming compared to what he became in the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s. The irony is that Liberace was more than decent at the piano. His career after 1960 was mostly in night clubs, major venues like Radio City Music Hall in New York and TV talk shows.
I lived in a decent size city in Massachusetts with a nightclub; he performed there once, as did people like Liza Minnelli and Sammy Davis.
But, Vegas was his natural venue.
- "Despite OP's excerpt, the NY Times review is negative, so it may be that HBO picked up Behind the Candelabra when every movie distributor passed because the movie isn't very good."
You really think this is worse than The Fast and the Furious Part 6?
(And Liberace was probably less gay than Vin Diesel and Michelle Rodriguez)
- "Behind the Candelabra" is now available for viewing on HBO GO
- [quote]"Behind the Candelabra" is now available for viewing on HBO GO
But what about people who do not have HBO and want to watch it on a TV screen and not a computer?
- OMG. They are filming at Prince Von A Hole and Zsa Zsa's Beverly Hills home! I heard he is running out of money and has the house on the market for around $8-10 mill. Did anyone else notice?
- OMG it's only 10 minutes in and Liberace is already sashaying around in a caftan!!! This movie is BEYOND!
- [quote]I would have said that people were able to put his sexuality to the side because he was so over-the-top ridiculous, something they could laugh at, and even if they didn't laugh at him, his actual sexuality was never presented, so they could put it out of their mind. He didn't talk about boyfriends and trysts, he didn't appear publicly with whomever he was dating. If they "didn't care" there was a reason they didn't care - he was the classic asexual, non-threatening gay man.
That's a very good assessment.
- The sight of Michael Douglas going down on Matt Damon will be forever seared into my brain. Dear god, that was creepy. Douglas is killing it as Liberace. So good.
- Please let us know when Matt shows his beautiful ass...
Matt looks good but not good enough to play 19...
Have to stop watching to eat
- Now they're making out...
- R61 states:
"And Liberace was probably less gay than Vin Diesel and Michelle Rodriguez"
What an absurd statement!
R6, are you familiar with Liberace? He was a very flaming, flaming queen in every way.
- I shit you not, a Tweet from HBO re: this movie:
"DID YOU KNOW: Liberace spent his last days cuddling with his 27 dogs and watching his favorite show, The Golden Girls."
OMG! Which one of you bitches is Liberace?
- As IF I would marry an ice skater. Those thighs!
- Michael Douglas IS Liberace!
- Beautiful lettering
- This "house boy" Carlucci is a real bitch. Scott should have slapped his face quite viciously. Scott is the new lady of the manor, why is he taking shit from the help?
- Jesus CHRIST on a stick! Damon was on top of Douglas slamming him from behind! I know that's going to be GIF'd by the end of the night and go viral...
- Impressions of Damon Butt please.
- But Liberace was a strict top, not a bottom or versatile.
- Did not know this:
"In a 2011 interview, actress and close friend Betty White stated that Liberace was gay, and that she often served as a beard to counter rumors of the musician's homosexuality."
- lol R76!!
This film is killing it then!
- [quote]Jesus CHRIST on a stick! Damon was on top of Douglas slamming him from behind! I know that's going to be GIF'd by the end of the night and go viral...
Now we know why no studio would touch this.
- Wow. Matt getting out of the pool. Yum!
- Rob Lowe as the plastic surgeon looks like Michael Jackson during Michael's blown out hair years
- WHo would want to fuck an old fart? Matt on the other hand...
- I think Rob looks like Ian Somerhalder from The Vampire Diaries.
- Shit. Damon's face looks like it's made out of putty. It was kind of sick to make Thorsen ruin his face like that. Debbie is killing it.
- R84, men would want to fuck Liberace hoping to somehow gain part of his great wealth.
- I saw him in Las Vegas many times, right up front, and met him twice. My uncle was a mafia "PR guy" who traveled the globe and brought wealthy, high rollers to Las Vegas, and his wife (my Aunt) was a beautiful red headed, long legged, tall show girl. What a life! I was just a kid then, but the memories I have are priceless. We always got front and center for shows and met the headliners backstage.
Liberace was wonderful and I have a photo of the two of us somewhere. I remember thinking how much I liked him and how I wished he was part of my family. He probably knew I was a little baby gay!
Sadly, my uncle died of Alzheimer's and my aunt died not long after. Sad to see them so frail, as I remembered them being so gorgeous and part of the Las Vegas "In Crowd" for so many years.
- Liberace posed for physique pinups in the '50s so it's not like he had a lousy body.
- It doesn't appear Damon and Douglas are really kissing directly on the lips, though, are they? Seems it's more of an "off to the side" kinda thing.
- "How does he get that whole thing down his throat?"
- DAMON BUTT!
- To be fair, it could be because of Douglas' oral cancer.
- Michael Douglas just grabbed Matt Damon's crotch. And squeezed. And lingered.
- Will this come out on DVD?
- OMG! OMG! R94
I never thought I would say this but wow this is hot! Keep the updates coming!!!
- Can't wait for it to start out here in the West.
To the folks up thread who wondered why Hollywood studios wouldn't bankroll this flick, you have your answer @ R24. Take a look at what Hollywood is releasing these days, and you'll see a trend: anything that can't do a $billion isn't worth releasing any more. Everything has to be geared to the opening weekend and maybe a week after that, because pirates steal it once anything has been on the market for any length of time.
I'm starting to see it already, and the future of Hollywood films is... lackluster. Execs are afraid to put any money behind anything but a sure success (read: teenage boys will actually pay to see it) and as a result, little, indie, and other non-car-chase films will dwindle to extinction. It really is rather sad, but we have no one to blame but the pirates and those who will download anything rather than pay even a few dollars to rent it.
It won't be long before everyone complains "the only thing in the theatre is 'Fast and Furious' or 'Texas Chain Saw Massacre'!"
- Damon plays a convincing drug addict. Just sayin'.
- Old Liberace was a playa...lol
- More DAMON Butt getting out of the bath
- The cinematography on this is stunningly artful. It's shot like an old Hollywood film. Long, lingering shots. This really is a masterpiece as for as television movies go. Mark my words, this will clean up at the Emmy's.
- R87 I can understand because his wealth Liberace had no trouble getting boys I'm saying he should be the TOP...
So far everything rings false. Douglas acting queeny 100% of the time> I see a hot guy I like I start acting macho. Liberace loves his dogs but someone who is not a vet gives them proper treatment. Why couldn't they get together because Scott was a hot piece of ass? I also hate it is from Scott's memoirs and of course it shows him having a heart of gold. Matt keeps looking at Liberace like he really likes him. Yeah right...
You can tell this was made by a bunch of hetros...
- Okay, the nudity in this is completely gregarious.
- I just want to know how many Game of Thrones fans turned to HBO expecting to see their show and were surprised to see Matt Damon assfucking Michael Douglas as he was sniffing poppers.
- Did Liberace buy every Falcon video up until his death in 1987?
- [quote]Okay, the nudity in this is completely gregarious.
Best unintentional word misuse tonight!
- It's call acting, r98.
- I can't wait to watch this.
- Paul Reiser has morphed into Randy Newman.
- r103 I think you meant "gratuitous."
- R70 , are you familiar with sarcasm?
- Debbie Reynolds is the mom?!?
- [quite]I also hate it is from Scott's memoirs and of course it shows him having a heart of gold. Matt keeps looking at Liberace like he really likes him. Yeah right...
I think the second half of the film greatly portrays Scott for the drug addled, money grubber. The first half portrays him as a naive strumpet. Nothing flattering at all about his character in this movie. Even when Liberace was creepily seducing him in the beginning, Scott seemed like he knew exactly what he was getting into.
- If Liberace was a strict top then how did he get AIDS?
- Michel Douglas is really killing this, imho.
Some great makeup work too.
- This movie is AMAZING, OMG I am dying watching it. Douglas is so over the top. Several Damon ass shots. It is a lot more explicit than I thought it would be. Loving every minute of it.
Debbie Reynolds killed it in her small yet pivotal role.
Rob Lowe is great as the plastic surgeon. The look he has on his face throughout is priceless!
- Douglas wins the Emmy for Best Actor in a TV Movie hands down, it is his to lose
- Damon's very good too.
Is it sad I'm choking up just a little here at the end?
- Great flick. I want to read the book now as I am sure it has more in it.
- Very good movie. I think I will watch it again...right now.
Michael Douglas can really act.
- damon has a hot ass and body!! Michael is great in this too. loved it!
- They barely mentioned the palimony suit. That's how most people know of Scott Thurson
- Descriptions of Damon Butt please! I'm desperate here, far away from a television.
- One point and two questions please:
Did anyone notice Seth Meyers hot brother Josh from MadTV in the deposition scene towards the end? I haven't seen him in ages.
1. How could Marvin Hamlisch be the exec music producer when he's been dead at least 3 years?
2. Which character did Scott Bakula play? Was it the dug dealer and that's why I didn't recognize him?
I'm watching it again...at least the first hour when they were so cute and in love.
- Actually Supporting Emmys for Debbie Reynolds and Rob Lowe too. Damon was great also but he'll be in Douglas's lead category too. Wonder why this was dedicated to the memory of Marvin Hamlisch?
- R123 Nice with major white thong tan lines. Damon looked great in all his swimming pool scenes.
- Ugh! Now I'm more pissed this film didn't make it as a full theatrical release[at least in the US].
Plus it was ignored at Cannes too!It went empty handed.
- I love Michael's reactions as Damon is telling his dysfunctional family story.
- Dear, Marvin hasn't been dead a year...
- Lowe stole every scene he was in. Hilarious!
- Fuck yeah, I want to kiss Matt Damon's ass so fucking bad!!!
- r124 yes, Scott Bakula is the drug dude who looks like Sam Elliot.
- It was better than I expected. Matt Damon looked hot despite the weird hair and makeup and his emotional scenes were fantastic. Douglas had the mannerisms down pretty well. Sad story but very well done.
- Describe it please, r131.
- Is this really how Liberace acted?
- [quote]2. Which character did Scott Bakula play? Was it the dug dealer and that's why I didn't recognize him?
Scott Bakula played the friend with the longish hair who introduced Scott to Liberace, the one who broke it to him in the end that he was being thrown out.
The drug dealer was a different actor.
- Holy fuck, Scott Bakula hasn't aged since 1990. Rob Loew stole every scene he was in and if they don't reopen the Liberace museum, I'll be pissed. excellent makeup on all.
- The film showed NO insight into how or why Liberace was beloved by millions of straight Americans. He was portrayed as grotesque from beginning to tragic end.
Matt Damon had no character to play until the film was 3/4s over.
- Is there a Wayland Flowers and Madame museum? HBO should produce their biography next.
- Rob Lowe based his character on the late Frank Ryan, the notoriously flamboyant plastic surgeon who did all of Janice Dickinson's work. He also does a large percentage of Hefner's girls.
He was killed in a single car accident on PCH about a year and a half ago. Look up his picture and see if you don't see the resemblance(allowing for a change in style and looks from 1981 to 2012). Ryan was his own walking billboard and he wore eyeliner and lipgloss. He claimed to be straight but he was gay as a goose.
- This is the first time I have seen Debbie in a convincing wig...
- Michael Douglas as Liberace taking it up the ass from Matt Damon whilst doing poppers...
It may be the end of the fucking world.
Matt Damon's sweet ass!
Liberace's mother & the slot machine.
This movie is a Datalounger's wet dream. Definately worth the wait, well-acted & with just the right amount of camp.
God bless HBO!
- Damon butt. Describe it please.
- [quote]The film showed NO insight into how or why Liberace was beloved by millions of straight Americans.
This was a very specific movie about the relationship between Liberace and Scott Thorton. It was not some general Liberace biopic.
[quote]Matt Damon had no character to play until the film was 3/4s over.
Damon played exactly who was supposed to. Scott Thorton was a naive kid taken in by the huge persona of Liberace. He played his role well.
It is obviously Michael Douglas's movie, but Damon did well. And he looked damn hot in it, and I appreciated the butt shots.
And yeah, Rob Lowe absolutely killed it whenever he was on screen.
- I found it both fabulous but kinda dull and flat at the same time.
Another one who thinks Rob Lowe stole the show. Hilarious.
- Debbie Reynolds and the slot machine scene. Great work on her part.
- They didn't mention it at the end but I just read somewhere that Scott Thorson is currently in prison (something, of course, to do with drugs).
- I don't know why everyone is raving about Lowe. He didn't have a very good role and the makeup and hair stylist did all the work....
- Scott has had it pretty rough. Jail, broke, jail, stage II colon cancer....
- This was very well-produced and Emmy-worthy performances.
- Was Michael Douglas playing Liberace or Al Pacino?
- At the end Matt looks like a 50 year old drug addict not 20...
- I liked Seth's brother Josh on MadTV...
- There's a huge NY Times article on Scott that came out a couple of weeks ago. He's in jail and he's quite a mess. He has a very sad life. Recalling that article while watching the end of the movie I did get a bit teary. He was in his teens when he met Liberace, and he's only in his early fifties now.
Soderbergh is a great director and this was a terrific movie that should have had a major release. Douglas would have been nominated along with Debbie. As it is, it will clean up at the Emmys, Globes, and SAG. It's amazing that Soderbergh is retiring, but this was a good way to go out. It had the energy of his early work like Sex, Lies, and Videotape.
- Scott was born in 1958, which puts him @28 in 1986. Looks about right.
- Liberace on stage, seriously.
- [quote]At the end Matt looks like a 50 year old drug addict not 20...
Interesting that you mention this, R153, as I just read the review by the critic for USA Today, who thought Damon was miscast:
[quote]And yet, as interesting as this story may be, it is not Scott Thorson's story — and the blame for that falls on a badly miscast Damon, as fine as his performance may be. Writers often talk about avoiding a slavish devotion to facts in order to capture a deeper emotional truth, but the missing, essential truth here is that Thorson was a teenager preyed upon by a rich, powerful man nearly 40 years his senior.
[quote]As young as Damon may look, he's a man, not a boy, and he's far too old to convey a child's vulnerability and immaturity and the damage this affair must have done. Thorson is still alive — and still damaged — and the filmmakers owe him more than this.
Can't say I agree (Damon totally sold it for me) but see the point you're both making.
- "Why am I the Lucy?"
"Because I am the band leader. With the night club act".
- Damon may have been too I'd but he sold it big time. There wasn't one actor in ths movie that wasn't outstanding. I thought this movie was going to suck. What do I know?
- I agree, Damon was the biggest flaw. He played it far too wide eyed innocent at the beginning. The performance got better along the way, but he was just wrong for the role. Too old, body too middle aged looking.
- Interesting, from Larry King:
"THORSON: Oh, no. The reason why I settled the lawsuit -- my lawsuit, which they claimed that they won -- they didn't -- was because he was so sick. And I said, "This has gone on too far." And this is a man that I really loved, that I thought very highly of -- father figure. Everybody that gets on national TV -- if it's Debbie Reynolds, Phyllis Diller...
KING: They were all here. Robert Goulet.
THORSON: ... Robert Goulet, they all say, "Oh, how wonderful he was. Oh, he was my best friend." Lee didn't associate with anybody in show business. The only close people in show business were actually my friends, which was Michael Jackson, Tony Orlando and Charo.
THORSON: And Englebert Humperdink.
KING: That was his friends. But they told the parties he would throw at his house, invite them over, give them gifts.
THORSON: Larry, I was with Lee almost 10 years, and I think, Debbie Reynolds was over once. Diller was never over. They're all lying. I mean, Diller...
KING: Why would they lie?
THORSON: Well, I'm telling you what I know.
KING: So you never saw them?
THORSON: Never. I mean,...."
- I forgot Rock was only 59 when he died. I guess back then that seemed old to me...
- Loved it. The two leads were amazing. Loved Rob Lowe but he was all makeup.
- I thought Damon acted the role near perfectly, but I do agree with those who are saying that he is far too old to have played Scott Thorsen. They probably needed another big name opposite Douglas to have the film green-lighted though.
I just think that they should really have cast a young twink in the role because it would have been more true to the predatory nature of the relationship with Liberace and emphasized the 40 year age gap between the two which was a pivotal aspect of their twisted affair.
- Damon was fine.
- [quote]Too old, body too middle aged looking.
I know this may sound absolutely nuts, but cast aside all prejudices for just a moment and think a minute ...
Could Justin Bieber have played the Scott Thorson role? Imagine if Soderbergh could've pulled a real performance out of him, what would that have brought to the film that maybe Damon couldn't?
- Sorry I never felt they loved each other..
By the writer of The Mirror Has Two Faces..
- Justin Bieber is gross and his body is gross.
- Wtf R167?! I completely get the argument that a younger actor should have played Scott Thorson but why the hell did your mind go the that Bieber douchebag who isn't even an actor.
But yeah, if Matt Damon wants to do this role you can't really say no to him, definitely helped make it high profile having a respected actor like him. And he did his best, was he at all a believeable teenager, of course not, but it still worked for me.
- This wasn't in the movie. This would have been great lol.
- Liberace had a type, and it wasn't twinks, so no, not Efron or Bieber.
He liked, big, beefy, cornfed types.
Maybe Armie Hammer?
- Thought everyone did a great job. Saw Liberace backstage at Sondheim's Follies. He lived up to the legend. Diamond piano ring and all!
- Armie is in his 30s. They should have gone with an unknown. Damon was closer to Liberace's age than Thorson...
- Matt Damon's butt deserves a special Emmy!
- It was masterful in that it was an instant camp classic without actually being campy/tacky. It was "Camp as high art". I honestly think this will go down as one of Michael Douglas' best acting roles. He really, really did a fantastic job.
- Amrie is not in his 30s. He was born in 1986.
- I thought a great scene was Scott sitting there, silently and bitterly eating his dinner in Liberace's dressing room that mirrored Cheyenne Jackson's character of "Billy Leatherwood", Liberace's last boyfriend, silently and bitterly eating his dinner in Liberace's dressing room when Scott first met Liberace. One of the many quiet, perfect moments from the film.
- [quote]Armie is in his 30s. They should have gone with an unknown.
Armie just looks like he's in his 30s.
- Valid question, R170. I just saw a half-naked picture of Bieber on the Internet, which is why I thought of him. I also honestly couldn't think of any A-list actor twinks at the moment, so that was part of it, too.
Personally, I would keep Damon, who I thought was fabulous.
- Would it really have been so hard to find a 20 something year old, blond cornfed type actor who could have played Scott Thorsen with depth? There are so many desperate young actors in Hollywood but the big wigs refuse to give them a chance.
To be honest, the role of Scott Thorsen is not hard to play. The real acting belonged to whoever was to play Liberace.
Hollywood is so safe and keep relying on the same names over and over again. They need to give new people a chance and start cultivating a new crop of future A listers.
- I LOVED this movie. Watched it both times it aired, back to back. Matt Damon was HOT, and the to the DL Matt Damon Butt Troll--I stand corrected. He DOES have a great ass. And Scott Bakula--hubba hubba! He still has that "Quantum Leap" body from 20 years ago (and the ass, too). Cheyenne was looking hot for the small amount of time he was in the movie too. I smell a Golden Globe for Michael Douglass. His performance was outstanding.
- R181 is an idiot. Choosing Matt Damon for this type of role was not a safe decision. Inspired casting, and I loved the two leads.
- Give it a rest, 181. The movie was fantastic. Damon and Douglas were superb.
- The scene when Scott first wakes up in Liberace's bed and groggily turns over to see Liberace's face staring back at him....holy shit! I was so startled! Douglas was so creepy and perfect!
- R182, are you the poster who often writes that Damon's ass is nothing special and little noticed outside DL and that Ryan Phillippe's ass is the gold standard of butts for gays?
- That may have been a body double getting out of the pool.
- The only problem I had was that Douglas appeared too skinny, Liberace always looked husky to me. I guess since Douglas had been so sick, it would have been impossible to ask him to ask him to gain at least 20-30 pounds. I don't remember Lee being so thin during the time he waas with Scott.
The other part which also rang false, Scott being shocked to see that Lee was bald! Scott actually thought that fake looking wig was Lee's hair, he never felt his head, c'mon.
- pretty petals, marvelous swinging vines.
- This is what i'll never understand. If Liberace was so concerned with appearing straight to his fans, why the HELL did he craft that onstage persona for himself that seemed to have been spawned from the glittery asshole of a unicorn???
- Ask Richard Simmons, R190.
- I really got into the characters. I didn't feel like I was watching Matt Damon or Michael Douglas.
Scott Bakula is unbelievably hot.
- Liberace was really famous for his flamboyance more than his piano playing skills. The flamboyance made him obviously gay, but he wouldn't have been famous without it. So no matter how inconvenient it was to have to keep denying the obvious, it was better than the alternative, being non-flamboyant and non-famous.
- I thought Damon was fantastic, too. And I was under the impression that Soderbergh came to him first and asked him to take the role. Perhaps Soderbergh didn't want to have Tatum take on a fourth straight role (ha!) with him again, but for whatever reason, he seemed to want Matt.
And I can't think of another 42 year old actor with Damon's star status that could have rolled back the years so easily with a blond feathered wig. I mean, it really suited his boyishness. In fact, the blond look kept making me flash back to Good Will Hunting.
- I pretty much agree with every word of this review. It was pretty fabulous and unexpected.
- You realize that there is a great deal of cowardice evident that no one wants to mention, right?
*Liberace's boy toy was 17 at the time that they met. Let me put the case to you that I was to post about a 50 something gay man who used a teenage boy. Let me put to you that I went on and on about how there was not only sex but drugs involved. Would you want to see a film about this? Would you see the older man as a "tragic figure" and someone worthy of a biopic?
The film is a cop out since it sanitizes the relationship for a straight audience (and sentimentalizes it for a gay one). Liberace is not a predator, not is his twink (who later went into the Federal Witness Protection program because of his involvement in the Wonderland murders). The biopic is a fairy tale, literally and figuratively. There is no dark side to it, that actuall stays with you.
Damon was absurd, acting in a role that he did not understand nor that he was able to bring across in a sensual way. I never believed him for a moment. Douglas? Please. He looked like a rooster after one too many martinis.
A dreadful film that is way overpraised. Again, the hypocrisy is grating. If this was about a high school teacher and a twink no one would (a)feel sorry for the subjects, or (b)even consider a film.
- Is everyone liking this movie because they got erections or for some legitimate reasons?
- RE 187 - that was a body double, getting out of the pool, and walking over to Douglas, on the lounge, and again , towards the end, getting out of the spa, during the argument, walking away from camera, walking behind a wall, and then having Damon come out from behind the other side of the wall with a robe on. The double was much taller than Damon, with longer legs, and a higher riding, smaller, ass. We all know the Damon ass is wide, and large.
- I agree with Ranger. The real relationship would give anyone the skeeves. Both of them were creeps and the movie is all gloss. I guess it's that Damon butt, lol.
- @196, 199.
No one sees Liberace as a tragic figure, nor do we see Scott as a tragic figure. We are not kids. However, the movie was based on the accounts of one of the actual participants, so you might want to see him about your complaints.
- Matt and Michael were both brilliant. Ad Rob, Debbie and Scott Bakula were perfect. This will lean up at the awards. Best line, Matt to the new boy "cock sucker tenor fuck"
- I don't get people praising Deb Scott and Rob. If you blink you would miss them...
- [quote]Will this come out on DVD?
You just please wait. Children very busy making copies.
You buy DVD tomorrow.
- That blew me away. It's tragic that Hollywood passed on this film. That said, I went into it wondering if I would question throughout how much of the story was based in fact, but instead I kept getting the impression that the Thorson role was written for somebody else. I'm guessing Soderbergh approached Channing Tatum who declined. Damon's performance was acceptable but paled in comparison to Douglas.
- [quote]Where will those of us without HBO be able to see it?
Silly internet newbie....
- R202 Remember that older middle aged actress Beatrice Straight who won the Oscar for best supporting actress for her 3 line part in the movie "Network"?
I realize that the poster who commented on Liberace's weight/size specifically said "during the time they were together", but in that You Tube of Oprah interviewing Liberace shortly before his death, where he looked remarkably good and nothing like Rock Hudson at his end, he looked astonishingly like Douglas.
I am on the side of those who easily accepted Matt as Scott even with the age discrepancy. It would be very difficult to get a nuanced vulnerable performance from a 20 year old unknown, and for what it's worth, I doubt that many up and comers in their 20's would have jumped at this role anyway. It's easy for Damon, married with 3 kids to "play gay" securely. Not so much for a young guy who is hoping for future leading man roles. I
Maybe it's because I am a woman, but I completely buy into the fact that this troubled young boy from a foster home background really loved Lib. He represented everything that Thorson was missing in his life, and honestly Lib was not disgusting or gross. We're not talking Jim Nabors or Dom Deluise here.
- If you look at pictures of Thorson in his Liberace days, he didn't look like a young kid. He may have been 17-22 but he could easily have been 25-30. And Matt Damon is a pretty young looking 40. So with some CGI and makeup it worked fine for me.
- [quote]That may have been a body double getting out of the pool.
No. It wasn't.
- Liberace sued, and won, when the London tabloid The Daily Mail printed the following on September 27, 1956
The New York Times reported on the trial with the headline "LIBERACE DENIES HE IS A HOMOSEXUAL"
[quote]I have to report that Mr. Liberace, like "Windstarke Fuenf" is about the most that man can take. But he is not a drink. He is Yearning Windstrength Five. He is the summit of sex—Masculine, Feminine and Neuter. Everything that He, She and It can ever want.
I have spoken to sad but kindly men on this newspaper who have met every celebrity arriving from the United States for the past thirty years. They all say that this deadly, winking, sniggering, snuggling, chromium-plated, scent-impregnated, luminous, quivering, giggling, fruit-flavored, mincing, ice-covered heap of mother love has had the biggest reception and impact on London since Charlie Chaplin arrived at the same station, Waterloo, on September 12, 1921.
[quote]This appalling man—and I use the word appalling in no other than its true sense of terrifying—has hit this country in a way that is as violent as Churchill receiving the cheers on V-E Day. He reeks with emetic language that can only make grown men long for a quiet corner, an aspidistra, a handkerchief, and the old heave-ho. Without doubt, he is the biggest sentimental vomit of all time.
[quote]Slobbering over his mother, winking at his brother, and counting the cash at every second, this superb piece of calculating candy-floss has an answer for every situation. Nobody since Aimee Semple MacPherson has purveyed a bigger, richer and more varied slag-heap of lilac-covered hokum. Nobody anywhere ever made so much money out of high speed piano playing with the ghost of Chopin gibbering at every note.
[quote]There must be something wrong with us that our teenagers longing for sex and our middle-aged matrons fed up with sex alike should fall for such a sugary mountain of jingling claptrap wrapped up in such a preposterous clown.
- hey MD- how do you feel about the DL worship of your ass?
- I see Matt Damon frequently in a similar state in Miami, and I am sure it was he.
- The real Jack Startz and Rob Lowe's portrayal.
His chin implant is hideous.
- I agree about the skeeve factor.
Where are all the pedo trolls roaring about the fact that a guy almost 60 was fucking a teenage boy? If this was a guy and a teenage girl, what would they say?
- Scott Thorson is currently in jail in Reno. He was arrested with pain pills and xanax and charged with intent, I believe. They had an interview with him on the local Las Vegas news.
As for the Liberace Museum, it was indeed located in a strip mall not far from UNLV, a few miles east of the Strip. In the same mall, were Liberace's restaurant Tivoli Gardens, and right next door to the museum was a gay bar, Good Times,said to be decorated, and own time part-owned by Liberace. The bar used to have a great happy hour at 1pm. The museum didn't have any public restrooms, so all the tourists used to drop by Good Times to use the bathroom. Ah,,,,,good times, indeed
- Creepy when men cavort with lovers so much younger than them especially when there is such a big social, professional and economic divide as in the Liberace situation.
- I enjoyed the movie. While any movie is going to take some liberties, I think most of this movie was based in fact. To my knowledge, no one in the Liberace camp (no pun intended) has protested anything about this movie. The fact that Lee's good friend, Debbie Reynolds, was involved says a lot as well. It must have been a hoot for her to play a character that she had known.
Lots of great lines in the movie, but I think my favorite is when Matt is told by Scott Bakula, "Honey, in gay years, you're Judy during the Sid Luft obese period."
- Who got Liberace's money when he died?
- Any GIFs circulating yet?
- They could've made pretty much the same movie about Merv Griffin, but won't since he never officially came out. I guess that goes for many other Hollywood moguls too.
- [quote]They could've made pretty much the same movie about Merv Griffin, but won't since he never officially came out.
Neither did Liberace, so let's start casting the Merv pic.
- R211, what does his ass look like in person, and what comments have he or others made about it?
- I never realized that was Debbie Reynolds untl the credits rolles, amazing make-up job on all of them.
- R217, I think his sister got his money, and Liberace set up a scholarship fund for students who want to receive a degree in music. I once watched a show when I was a little kid back in the 80s, which Liberace gave a tour of one of his homes ,and he showed the objects that he owned. Liberace's taste for things really ranged widely and contrasted too.He would have some plastic piece of crap next to a desk that once came form the Russian royal palace ,and was owned by one of the Czars. He had such extraordinary things that were museum quality. He also owned Josephine and Napoleon's set of china ,which was incredibly valuable. Also, he owned a table that was entirely made of Baccarat crystal and it was 150 years old that was once owned by a Raj in India. It was extremely valuable around thousands to possibly hundreds of thousands of dollars, and that was just the tip of the iceberg of the incredible treasures Liberace owned. Again, he would have these supremely exquisite antiques in the same room with cheap items made in China.
Someone posted an interview Larry King Had with Scott and Scott seems not all that believable. He said Debbie Reynold's was only seen once? yet Liberace left her a cape of his, a sport's coat, and he bought her an antique shawl for her piano. Also, he said that Robert Goulet was a friend of Liberace's, yet Robert Goulet said he was stunned when Liberace left instructions that he wanted Robert Goulet to speak at Liberace's funeral because Robert claimed not to have known Liberace that well. Also, Scott said Phyllis Diller was over Liberace's house once, yet Phyllis Diller spoke about how fun it was to go shopping with Liberace ,and he was like one of the girls. She said Liberace would give presents to her and others when they saw him. Phyllis Diller said he was way too generous.
Scott has colon cancer which sounds like he got it from having anal sex. Doctors are finding out that anal and colon cancer can be a result of having anal sex. Most likely Scott is sexually versatile.Also, Liberace seems like he was a major bottom, and I don't understand why there are some on this thread who think he was a top? I highly doubt it. Also, Michael Douglas has throat cancer. Doctors are finding out that throat cancer is caused by oral sex. Michael Douglas was a major womanizer for a long time, and he could have easily have gotten throat cancer from performing oral sex on women.
BTW, here is a YouTube video of Liberace's home in Las Vegas today and it's really sad. I have heard this house is haunted by Liberace's ghost ,and the Liberace restaurant is haunted as well by him. Apparently people dinning at the restaurant see Liberace walking in.
- Channing Tatum can't act, as we know from "Magic Mike", Matt Damon can.
- Here is the Larry King interview with Jamie James, Debbie Reynolds, Phyllis Diller, Robert Goulet, Gladys Luckie, Mike Douglas, Will Collins.
This is a really good interview and you should watch it. It contrasts with Scott's claims that they never knew Liberace.
- This is R223, I know people are going t ask for a link about oral sex and throat cancer connection. There are many websites ,and a lot information on the net. Here is one of many links.
- This is R223, I know people on this thread are going to ask for a link to prove anal sex is connected with anal and colon cancer.Again, there are many, many websites that make that medical connection. Here is one of many websites that is based on that fact. I didn't mean to divert the this interesting thread, but I'm just trying to prove that what I'm saying isn't based on BS but on facts.
- [quote] Michael Douglas was a major womanizer for a long time, and he could have easily have gotten throat cancer from performing oral sex on women.
And about a million times more easily he could've gotten it from being a heavy smoker.
- Glad (and surprised) to hear of the critical response.
Oddly there was a competition for students to go to a theatrical screening of this in the UK, on the E4 channel.
If you are a heavy smoker and drink a lot of hard liquor, you will almost certainly get throat cancer.
- I enjoyed the movie and thought they all gave great performances. But after awhile, Michael Douglas' nasal voice was irritating. It was too much.
- Damon and Douglas were both wonderful but Damon really blew me away. I thought it was an Oscar worthy performance - the best I've ever seen him.
- For the record, I'm straight and my friends and I would have gone to the movies to see this. I am 41 however, so im just old enough to remember Liberace.
I wonder if they thought a young audience might not be attracted to this because the main actors are all over 40, rather than it being "too gay". Straight people saw Brokeback Mountain in droves, but it's target audience was younger. Maybe they thought the content was too racy for the over 60s and too outdated for the under 40s, leaving only a small age group prepared to go to the movies to see it. If its on hbo, the under 40s might sneak a peak to see what the fuss is about and maybe so will the oldies.
- R228,230 that is what doctors thought for years ,but they have been doing research and they found out those cancers are mainly sexually related.
- R223 Douglas smoked for many years that's why he probably got the throat cancer. Yes Douglas was a Lothario BUT he probably fucked these girls instead of eating them out.
As for Lib knowing all these people...when Scott was around they were hardly around it seems. So Scott was not totally full of it. Perhaps Lib had these friendships long ago and still was friendly with them.
As for Scott's foster mom dying that was slutty of Liberace. He was such a cunt! Scott's beloved foster mom dies and Lib goes and gets laid.
Not a bad movie at all. Soderbergh could have had this don theatrically now he'll win a ton of Emmys instead.
Rob Lowe's role was so queeny and comedic. He camped it up to the nth degree. Good job by him. Dan Ackroyd was another one that did a good job. Kudos to the makeup people,I didn't realize it was him until later on.
- r204 if anyone thinks Channing Tatum can act, he needs to take another look at Magic Mike (and keep his eyes on Chan's performance, not his ass!). Damon was quite wonderful in the part and looked two decades younger than he is in the beginning of the film.
- Have absolutely NO desire to see this film. Was there a pressing reason for it to be made at all???
- [quote]Have absolutely NO desire to see this film.
Oh, gee, thanks, we were wondering...
But you'll see it regardless.
[quote]Was there a pressing reason for it to be made at all???
Name one film that DID have "a pressing reason" for it to be made.
- [quote]Have absolutely NO desire to see this film. Was there a pressing reason for it to be made at all???
Of course not, since YOU have no interest.
- Here is the flip side to this movie and the book. Scott said Liberace took his clothes and other items and threw them out the window and threw out Scott. Maybe Scott is pissed and making stuff about Liberace because Liberace didn't include him in his will?just sayin.
Wasn't there another boyfriend Liberace left millions to ,and the man became a Christian, and he and gave all of the money to the church?
BTW, Liberace was mega wealthy.
I have the biography on Liberace wich I haven't read yet ,but it seems like a super biography if you are interested.
Liberace: An American Boy by Darden Asbury Pyron
- Wow, this movie really got the queens all a flutter.
- Funniest/creepiest scene was at the adult book store when after Scott pukes and falls to the floor, Lee pops his head up over the door to that glory hole.
I kept waiting for the camera to pan back and we'd see Lee getting fisted.
- Scott is someone who's had to hustle and con his way through life. Spending one's formative years in foster care, then as the catamite of a monster celebrity, would not lend itself to healthy ego development, as seen in his post-Liberace career.
As far as howling about the sexual exploitation of an underage kid, isn't that what this entire film is about? Liberace wanted a toy that he could completely dominate and control and then get rid of when he'd had enough. It's hard enough for a grown person to cope with that kind of lover, but for a child or teenager who's still learning about life and love and is in no measure an equal match for him, it's a permanent mindfuck. This is why we have age of consent laws. Just because the cock and ass can handle sex doesn't mean the mind and personality are ready for it too.
- It sucks because I can't afford extended cable, which is HBO. Also I want the TCM channel so badly because I love old movies,but that is another story. The cable companies are such greedy bastards!
However,I did see a TV movie on Liberace's life some years back .It wasn't bad and I think they did a pretty good job. They showed in the film Liberace had a more mature boyfriend toward the end of his life? and he told his boyfriend till the day he died that he did not have AIDS. He would never ever admit to having it.
- r243, Lee definitely abused him. It doesn't excuse all of Scott's subsequent fuck-ups in life, but it certainly goes a long way towards explaining them.
- Thorson was born in 1958 and they met in 1977. Wouldn't that make him 19?
In any case, seeing droopy, old Douglas nude with beautiful young-looking Matt made the whole thing creepy enough.
- It was fun but hardly anything special. Cut 90 seconds worth of mild sex and nudity and you have a Lifetime Movie.
- Jack Startz was the same plastic surgeon who disfigured Hollywood wife/celebrity realtor Elaine Young.
- Man, Lifetime must have really stepped up their game R247 if their movies have this level of acting, cinematography and direction.
- In my opinion Scott could have been a con-artist and narcissist and was using Liberace, too. Thorson been scamming and conning people ever since. Who knows what's the truth and what are lies.
Thorson waking up with Gollum next to him was one of the most frightening scenes I have ever seen in a movie. It was unforgettable.
- Where in WI was Thorsen born? What was wrong with his mom? Mental illness? Drug addiction?
- The line I wasn't expecting came after Frances died and Lee told Scott, "I'm free." I guess this came from Scott's book? All I'd ever heard was how much he adored his mom.
- [quote]I have the biography on Liberace wich I haven't read yet ,but it seems like a super biography if you are interested.
Why would we want to read Liberace's autobiography when Scott Thorson's was closer to the truth. I don't want to read about the love of his life, Sonja Henie, who is haunting Connie Steven's house, just ask Connie. And it's true, the quack botched his eye job and he couldn't close his eyes while sleeping for years until the skin sagged again.
- [quote] I just read the review by the critic for USA Today, who thought Damon was miscast
Yeah, that TV critic was known when he used to be the TV critic for the Pittsburgh newspaper for being into young jocks (and, uh, being a scat queen too).
No surprise that he'd think Damon was too old.
- My take away from this really great movie:
Liberace was a piano virtuoso, but he SUCKED on the organ.
- I really enjoyed it, but agree with R247.
That's why it wasn't done as a theatrical release, not because of the gay content.
(And I refer to the storyline, not the quality of the filmmaking here.)
- R250: My take on Scott, whatever he may have been before meeting Liberace, the relationship was one sided, all for Liberace pleasure. I understand that Liberace is far from the only rich person to buy love and fans, but he was almost a cartoon character in the last decades of his life.
- Matt Damon was amazing in this. Very believable. The people who say he was too old, STFU. He deserves an Emmy.
- I thought Damon was good but I agree: he is/looks WAY too old to be playing a 17 year old.
- Penis implants? How do those work? Did Liberace really have one? Didn't they have any versions of Viagra in those days? Thorson was lucky he could get it up with Liberace at all, that's hard to believe - 4 times in a day? Really? How long were these guys together?
- I think Soderbergh's casting of Damon was strategic in that he didn't want to focus on Liberace's predation but on the relationship that developed between them. This was a very sympathetic portrayal of both men. You saw their flaws but you also saw they cared deeply for each other.
If he'd cast a twink actor everyone would have focused on the age difference.
- Liberace in this film came off as a candy coated user of young men. The people around him knew it and served it. Casting Damon made viewing tolerable. The popular glow of a mature heterosexual, married, father of two took the sharp edge off this coupling. Scott was 17 when he moved in with Liberace. I wonder how all the other protegees fared once Liberace was done with them.
- [quote] Penis implants? How do those work?
Here you go
- Like someone said earlier, Scott Thorson didn't look 17 when he was with Lee.
- What does it matter what age he looked? He WAS 17.
If Liberace wasn't such a chicken hawk he could have found many willing adult men. He was a closet case in plain sight who preyed on vulnerable people.
- Can somebody who is 17 fuck anybody - even an old man - four times a day? Maybe that was the real key to his success.
- I don't think the unseen guy in the glory hole scene would've yelled out "what the fuck!" It sounded to contemporary.
I liked the fact that the movie wasn't lurid; when Lee or Scott were naked, they didn't stare hungrily at each others cocks, but had conversations. It could've gone the other way and given the impression that gay men are only interested in nudity and sex and nothing else.
- I'm with a 32-year-old right now and he can fuck 4 times in an hour. Maybe it's all the curry he eats...
- R267, I can assure you that people said "What the fuck" in the 70's and 80's.
- The film has them meeting in 1977, which would have made Scott 18-19 when they met. Even if we believe Wikipedia (which claims they met in 1976), Scott would have been 17 for only a brief period of their relationship, if any.
I think Matt Damon looked and acted young enough for the part, especially when we consider that husky hunk Scott T. has always looked older than his years.
There was only one scene in which Matt looked "too old" and it was when the Plastic Surgeon (Lowe) was discussing his procedure and that Thorson needed to lose weight. And I'm sure the disheveled feel to his look in that scene was intentional.
- I thought they were both good but Michael Douglas was really good. The thing was, it was sad.
- I really enjoyed the movie. When i first heard about it I thought it could be Douglas's disaster like Faye doing Joan Crawford. Great movie and acting by all.
- How much CGI was used on Damon in the early scenes? No way that was just lighting and makeup.
- Probably gel on the camera while filming. It all looks a little fuzzy to me.
- From all the pics floating around, Scott Thorson did not seem like a pretty model boy. He seemed a little chubby, a little schlubby. He really did look 20 going on 40, rode hard and hung up wet. So Matt Damon was perfect for the role, considering that he looks like an overgrown man-boy himself.
Couldn't Liberace have bought a better looking, more refined boy toy? I guess he liked a particular Midwestern cornhole type, but still...
- "Couldn't Liberace have bought a better looking, more refined boy toy? I guess he liked a particular Midwestern cornhole type, but still..."
Old men, not matter how rich, can't always buy the best looking young merchandise. More often than not, old men only get the B and C-List young stuff since the truly good looking young men (and women) have plenty of other options.
- I cannot wait until Roddy MacDowell's journals become published. He had ALL the dirt on the closeted Marys of Tinseltown. I'm sure there are so many similar stories like Liberace.
- [quote]Funniest/creepiest scene was at the adult book store when after Scott pukes and falls to the floor, Lee pops his head up over the door to that glory hole.
Just to clarify for the uninitiated: the term "glory hole" doesn't refer to the booth. A glory hole is a literal hole between the walls of two adjacent booths (or washroom stalls, or what have you) through which sexual activity may occur.
- Did Lee really go to the book stores in his mink? Any elder gay ever see him there or do him?
- I'll be dead r277 :( I'd love to read his book.
- [quote] I cannot wait until Roddy MacDowell's journals become published.
Do you really think you'll still be alive then? THey are not to be made public until 100 years after his death. Will you still be around in 2098?
- "Old men, not matter how rich, can't always buy the best looking young merchandise."
So true. Calvin Klein and Nick Gruber are only one example.
- Debbie Reynolds kicks ass in this!!!
- What would happen if someone went ahead and published and/or leaked Roddy's book? Roddy isn't around.
- Here's an article and interview with Thornson from the Washoe County jail recently published in the Guardian. With picture.
- Gonna watch this this evening. Can't wait!
- Good read
- Brit here, appetite whetted for the big screen release in early June. Can't wait. There has to be a BAFTA in it somewhere.
The 'New Yorker' gave it a rave, complete with 'Boys In The Band' reference, and the first time I've seen 'bossy bottom' used in the mainstream, about Lib himself of course.
- R287, see R285.
- Thanks R289. And DUH!
- It was a good movie. I knew these things about Liberace before the movie but after viewing it, I really dislike him now. He was a predator. He expected these young men to devote their lives to him, then he turned them out with very little to their names. Poor kids, I feel sorry for them all.
Roddy McDowall was stupid for putting the 100 year cap on his diaries. No one will care in 100 years.
- Wills get circumvented all the time. I highly doubt an intrepid publishing house will wait 100 years when no one cares about what Roddy had to say. It's better to have the memoirs published within the next 20 years. Beyond that will be too long.
Liz Taylor also has memoirs that she doesn't want to be made public until 50 years after her death. I doubt her wishes will be respected as well, thank god.
I say once a person is deceased, their memoirs should be up for grabs. They're dead, so what do they care???
- Re: the Thorson interview in the Guardian, what a gem that guy turned out to be. Now I'm even less sympathetic to him than I was after seeing the film.
He didn't get a fair shake at all, but he wanted to be kept and taken care of so he went along with everything Liberace asked of him. This is what happens when you devote all that you are to someone else. They can cut you loose at their whimsy. Carlucci tried to warn him.
But after the settlement he could've became a vet like he talked of doing or tried to better himself, instead he stayed a druggie and became a con.
- [quote]I say once a person is deceased, their memoirs should be up for grabs. They're dead, so what do they care???
I assume it's more about the potential effects that any revelations may have on people who are still living.
- R243 has the best take on the relationship and Liberace's predatory nature. Just because he was kind and generous didn't make him any less creepy. He exhibited the behavior of a pedophile. He just substituted bling and cars for candy and puppies.
- Liberace was one of the richest performers in history during the 80s, he couldn't have just given Scott a small home and $500,000 to make sure he was secure? He literally had hundreds of millions in the bank. He was getting paid millions a year for his performances and millions more from royalties and shrewd investments. He could have given Scott a measly half a million.
I understand that Scott was a mess but Liberace greatly helped to facilitate Scott's downward spiral and he should have worked harder to clean Scott up. He had so many resources...he could have paid for him to go to an excellent rehab program.
- Liberace emotionally abused Scott, as most sugar daddies are wont to do with their boy toys after they tire of them. They get off on the power and control they can exert over the beautiful young men through their advanced financial and social positions.
Sugar daddies are not interested in having real, meaningful relationships. They see these boys as just another material good that they've purchased. Once the boy starts to "depreciate" by getting older or less grateful, they toss them out and replace them with a younger model, just like one would do with a car.
- Scott Bakula has the build of someone 30 years younger. Such a hot daddy.
- "Sugar daddies are not interested in having real, meaningful relationships."
Though I don't pity the young things who get into these relationships with older rich men for money, I am somewhat grossed out by the mindset of old rich men treating others like that.
- I sort of doubt that the plastic surgeon was the first person to introduce young Scott to drugs. It doesn't make his life that much less tragic though. Whoever did the makeup for this movie deserves a lot of accolades. That death scene alone was amazing.
- I don't blame a naive 18 yr old for seeing dollar signs and not having the maturity or sound mind to be able to understand the complexities of such a "relationship". Sugar daddies pray on young boys precisely because they are naive and green. They know they can control them more and get more shit over on them because they won't ask questions or demand respect like an older man would.
- [quote]Liberace was one of the richest performers in history during the 80s, he couldn't have just given Scott a small home and $500,000 to make sure he was secure?
Because Liberace wasn't emotionally mature to think that way. Everything relationship wise had to be kept secret. He was never allowed to be himself, and that takes a toll. If Liberace had his way, Scott would have been out on the street with the clothes on his back. Out and problem solved. Remember, he claimed he gave and gave and got nothing in return.
- I think a lot of young people actually fall for their sugar daddy and think they can depend on them but they can just forget it. Sugar Daddies are not in love, they are simply users.
- Just like pedophiles target kids from broken homes, so do sugar daddies. They purposely go after guys with father issues who are searching for that parental love and guidance they couldn't get at home.
The more I think about this film, the more sad and angry I get. It really stays with you after it's over.
- Roddy's embargo should certainly be respected.
- I haven't seen the movie and don't know much about Liberace, but all of this raises questions about what might have damaged him to the point that he wasn't capable of having a mutual, loving relationship with an equal.
- [quote]All of this raises questions about what might have damaged him to the point that he wasn't capable of having a mutual, loving relationship with an equal.
Self-loathing and Catholic shame.
- [quote]This is what i'll never understand. If Liberace was so concerned with appearing straight to his fans, why the HELL did he craft that onstage persona for himself that seemed to have been spawned from the glittery asshole of a unicorn???
At that time mansex was not something most of his fan base would even think of. It was beyond don't ask don't tell. Gays were hidden and segregated.
- Plus Liberace was a dumpy old man, it's another reason no one thought of sex when they thought about him.
- Did anyone visit the museum while it was open?
- I would expect self-loathing and Catholic shame to have led to furtive sexual encounters and a lifestyle that wasn't so in your face. Not only referring to the glam costumes/furniture/cars, but the cadre of boys around. He was so "fuck you" in his approach. Plenty of other nice, gay Catholic boys didn't turn out predators or were capable of a mature loving relationship. Of course, they had their struggles, but...
- [quote] He expected these young men to devote their lives to him, then he turned them out with very little to their names. Poor kids, I feel sorry for them all.
If they had nothing it's their own fault. He gave them a fortune in jewelry. And as Scott makes perfectly clear in the early part of the film, his eyes were wide open. Besides, during the time they were with him they lived like royalty. Personally, I think it's a fair deal.
The film leaves it unclear whether Scott would have been kicked out if he hadn't become an addict. It suggests there was a real love between them even after they were no longer having sex.
- Liberace de-sexualized himself to the point that I think most of his female fans thought he was simply asexual. At least my mother told me she thought of him in this way. He was a showman, but he did not have the swagger or sexual energy that a lot of other male performers had. I don't think most women want a man who wears more makeup and jewelry than they do. He made himself up to look like a perfumed eunuch from 18th century France.
- Maybe he was just an egomaniac who thought he would always hold the power? Maybe he was simply a swallow guy without the ability to really love someone?
- [quote]Sugar daddies pray on young boys precisely because they are naive and green. They know they can control them more and get more shit over on them because they won't ask questions or demand respect like an older man would.
The sugar babies are not innocents. They are hustlers. They have their share of power over the daddies. The using is mutual.
I have a friend who has been involved with a series of sugar babies. They manipulate and use him far more than the other way around (though to be fair I never hear their side of the story.)
[quote]a swallow guy
Said a mouthful there!
- The movie was wonderful w/o being campy. But- Scott was 17 years old when they started the affair. Reading the Scott- Larry King interview transcript only, Scott met Liberace when Scott was in high school and moved in w/Lee when he graduated. The movie implied Scott was some sort of animal movie trainer??
Lee insisted that a 17-18 year old BOY should get plastic surgery and suggested drugs for weight loss again to a boy.
The more I consider the story - Liberace seems really in the wrong.
Overall, the movie was a flattering portrayal (but then again, it is based on Scott's book and Scott himself seems to still be in love w/Lee).
Weirdly, in the Larry King interview, Scott claims to not be gay...
- Liberace, I'm guessing, was the older version of Bieber. A lot of these 'teen hearthrobs' are pretty femme, and often look more like girls then boys. Their fans feel safe around them. Liberace was so feminine that his female fans undoubtedly felt he was completely safe. He'd play them something nice on the piano, take them shopping, and flatter them. No messy come-ons to worry about.
- All that hype turned out to be bogus. I watched BTC, and it was no big deal. It was a very ordinary, predictable HBO movie.
As it's been noted, Matt Damon was sorely miscast. NO forty-something actor should be playing someone in their teens or twenties. His acting was ok, but not exceptional.
All that ballyhoo about Michael Douglas's brilliant performance...he was AVERAGE.
I think Damon and Douglas were praised to the skies simply for accepting roles that depicted them as gay men kissing and buttfucking and sucking dick. For well-known, mainstream actors to do such a thing is considered incredibly admirable. Much was made about the kissing; God knows how many articles and interviews made a point of asking both actors how they felt kissing another man.
Debbie Reynolds and Scott Bakula were good in their roles. I thought Dan Akroyd was too over the top as the sleazebag lawywer. Rob Lowe was fun to watch, but did the slimy plastic surgeon REALLY look like that? Probably not.
The story itself is pretty stale. Rich, flaming, flamboyant, closeted, aging male celebrity has a thing for very young men. Teenager who's led a hard knock life is introduced to the old queen and the horny old goat sets about seducing the poor dumb kid with flattery and gifts and promise of a wonderful life together. He pulls the kid in by saying I need you, you're just the type of person who would be good for me, won't you help me...the emotional manipulation is very slick and apparently works every time. They set up house together and for a while it works. Then they start to clash, the kid gets restless, starts really getting into drugs, the old queen gets tired of him and dumps him, the kid sues for a big chunk of the queen's fortune...it all seems so lame and tiresome.
Liberace obviously wasn't very selective when it came to his lovers. All they had to be was very young, docile, and good-looking. I don't know exactly what was Thorson's appeal. I never considered him very attractive at all.
In the movie Liberace calls Thorson a "prude" because he's disgusted by porn and won't allow Liberace to buttfuck him. I wonder if any of that was true? In the movie Thorson tells Liberace that he's "bi-sexual" and today tells interviewers that he's NOT gay and that Liberace basically seduced him when he was a "child." Scott Thornson seems full of shit, at least when it comes to his sexuality.
- How fucked up does a man have to be to want to fuck a younger version of himself? Where did the desire come from to have Scott surgically altered to look like a young Liberace? I feel for the young man Scott was at the time that decision was made. Liberace was not an attractive man, even in youth. He must have been under a tremendous amount of emotional and financial pressure to go through with the surgery. I'm surprised more people haven't mentioned this scene and what it reveals about both men.
I don't remember Scott's age being mentioned at all in the movie. Did I miss a reference to his age?
I was fine with the actors because they gave such strong performances. I would say Damon had the more difficult job of creating a personality based on a man who probably has a chameleon personality. Considering his upbringing and exposure to the foster system, I bet he learned to survive by adapting to his current situation. And he probably never had a true sense of self.
To the people who think Michael Douglas was too queeny, you peeps need to watch some Liberace videos. He was a queen who tried to butch it up for the cameras. But there was no hiding the queeny-ness of his soul. Still, I would bet that many of his straight fans thought he was straight and that's how he was able to hide in plain sight.
Liberace was a king on stage, of that there is no doubt. He used to hold his hands out to his audiences and say, "you like my rings? You should, you paid for them." And his fans laughed and laughed. They loved the costumes and really would line up just to hear facts about a mink coat that had its own limo.
- [quote] Scott claims to not be gay...
Oh god, not another one of those.
- [quote]He made himself up to look like a perfumed eunuch from 18th century France.
Perfect description of the look.
- It seems like Liberace ruined Scott Thorson's life.
I wonder how he would have turned out if he had never met Liberace?
The second half of his life sounds just as messed up as the first half.
- God bless Debbie Reynolds. Unrecognizable. Always thought she was vastly underrated as an actress. This and her work in MOTHER prove it.
- Liberace was really selfish and a cheapskate. He owed Scott at least a million, in my opinion. Of course Scott probably would have blown all the money on drugs and junk.
- Hey MD--Are you Matt or Michael?
- I went to the museum. if you like liberace then you would have liked the museum. it was small but packed with his pianos and costumes. There might have even been a car or two in there. Jewelery everywhere.
Shame that it closed but I wouldn't be surprised to see a new, bigger and better one if the movie takes off.
Maybe they could put the new museum on the strip where it belongs this time.
- I forgot that Debbie Reynolds played his mother and I didn't even recognize her.
- Falling in love, happiness, fightling, lying, drugs, cheating Hmm. Pretty realistic depiction to me.
- Why can't one of the large strip casinos dedicate an area for a Liberace museum? It wouldn't have to be much space and it could draw some folks in for what they could tout as a quintessential Vegas experience. It's part of Las Vegas history, after all. It could have the sort of appeal that Graceland does, kitschy and OTT for some, historical for others, and then the sincere fans (if there are any left) would go for their own reasons. If the Bellagio has an art gallery, surely, some place has room for Mr. Showmanship.
- I was really impressed. Assuming the voters can get past the frankness with which the gay sexuality was addressed, both Douglas and Damon are winning Emmys.
Also, Matt Damon only had to sleep with him for the movie. Can you imagine how Catherine Zeta-Jones must do it? She's barely older than Scott Thorson was himself.
The Voice of the Night
- Roddy must have really been full of himself...that he thought people would wait around for a hundred years. Who would care after 100 years? No one.
- I thought the mom was Carol Kane at first...
- WEHT to Billy Leatherwood(what a name)? Did he ever speak about his relationship with Liberace?
What about the young blonde boy who took Scott's place?
- [quote] Maybe he was simply a swallow guy
Typo of the day!
- [quote] both Douglas and Damon are winning Emmys.
Not if they're in the same category.
- They'll put Douglas as Lead and Damon as Supporting.
HBO knows how to play the game.
The Voice of the Night
- Damn, that was Cheyenne Jackson playing "Billy Leatherwood" did he even have any lines? He was great in it and I think his part was wordless. Dan Ackroyd was good too and he didn't look morbidly obese like DL would have led me to believe.
- At the beginning Matt looked like Shaun Cassidy, too bad he changed his face.
- Does anyone remember ABC's and CBS's dueling Liberace TV movies from 1988? The former had Andrew Robinson as Lee and Rue McClanahan (!) as his mom; the latter had Victor Garber as Lee and Maureen Stapleton as his mom. The latter was also the more forthright of the two in depicting him as gay -- the ABC version was made with the cooperation his estate and tap-danced awkwardly around the subject.
- They blamed his death on anemia due to a watermelon diet?!? LOL
- I appreciated the craft of the film and the performances.
But I will refrain on passing judgment on either Scott Thorson or Liberace. Scott's accounts should be taken with a grain of salt, as they seem to change every time he comes out of jail. His "facts" and timelines don't gel many times and at other times seem to be on a sliding scale. Just watching different interviews at different times of his life shows this.
And, just like Lee, he is never forthcoming about his true sexuality (those around him see him as gay, and that woman he lived with he slept with once, according to her).
They were both damaged goods, somewhat ashamed of their sexual orientation, and we should leave it at that.
- [quote]They blamed his death on anemia due to a watermelon diet?!?
- R341 & R343 He was creative even in death.
- Clarification: After it became apparent that Lee was dying, his handlers shifted the blame to "pernicious anemia complicated by emphysema and heart disease."
- Yes I remember the Garber version r340, and it was the better of the two, but it was just a standard tv biopic and is really irrelevant at this point.
- They showed previews for an HBO movie with Larry David & Jon Hamm called 'Clear History', that caught my eye last night
- This is interesting:
"Thorson’s friend Bob Black (Scott Bakula), a choreographer-dancer, invited Thorson to see Liberace’s show during a trip to Las Vegas, which led to their meeting backstage afterwards, as the film depicts. Liberace has a protégé at the time called “Jerry O’Rourke” in the book; in the movie, his name is changed to Billy Leatherwood (Cheyenne Jackson). Like his real-life counterpart, Billy is immediately unhappy about Scott’s arrival. Billy/Jerry is married—after seeing him play in a piano bar, Liberace offers him a performing contract with the caveat that he leave behind his wife and kids, according to the memoir—and by the time Thorson is in the picture, his relationship with Liberace is already on the rocks. In Soderbergh’s account, he moves out of Liberace’s mansion the day Thorson arrives; the memoir says that Jerry stayed, despite everyone’s discomfort, for four more months."
- Scott Thorson also claims to have had a thing with Michael Jackson:
- I did find Cheyenne's constant stress-eating to be really funny.
I was surprised how even-handed the movie was. Neither Lee nor Scott were made out to be saints.
And I think I see now why it had to be Matt Damon. He's baby-faced enough that with good make-up and lighting, he's almost believable as the right age, and if they'd cast a younger actor, it would have read even creepier than it did.
The Voice of the Night
- [quote]the memoir says that Jerry stayed, despite everyone’s discomfort, for four more months."
Which makes more sense with the timeline established in the movie as well, whereby Jerry/Billy still had 6 months left on his contract the night Scott and Lee first slept together.
- I doubt Liberace would have liked this rendition of his life story. There was so much more in the book. The movie was true to the book and hit all the best plot points, but I thought it fell a little flat. The last man in Liberace's life, Cary James, supposedly didn't love him like Scott did. That's why he called Scott at the end.
And Cary could never "carry" off a mink...
- I agree that Liberace was a user, but ultimately it was a legal May/December romance and those have often been celebrated in the movies, with hetero couples, usually the man much older. Liberace was of a generation where men could pursue girls far younger than 18, and do it completely out in the open, often with no backlash. Elvis and Priscilla of course, being a prime example.
- Thorson was not very bright, as the deposition scene at the end of the movie showed. He had no copies of legal documents that proved he was entitled to certain things. Liberace really screwed him over in that regard.
I can't believe that Thorson was dumb enough to sign over the title to the L.A. penthouse, its contents, and 3 additional cars:
"Thorson gives a detailed retelling of the lawsuit he filed against Liberace, while Soderbergh condenses the years-long legal battles to a few short scenes. A title card jumps to the year 1984, and then we see Thorson and his lawyer Felder (Paul Reiser) discussing possessions and legal documents with Lee’s lawyers. Felder tells Thorson that he’ll get $75,000 in cash, three cars, three dogs, and all of his clothes if—and only if—he signs over the title of his house, all of its contents, and three specified cars.* This is recounted exactly in Thorson’s book, though, according to him, the agreement was settled on in 1982, before he officially filed a lawsuit. Thorson reluctantly agreed to sign it because he was “desperate for money” at the time."
- [quote] Liberace was not an attractive man, even in youth.
I beg to differ. I think he was very handsome when he was younger.
[quote] Roddy must have really been full of himself...that he thought people would wait around for a hundred years. Who would care after 100 years? No one.
That's not the point. It was a means to ensure anyone mentioned in his memoirs/diaries who is still alive would protected. They will also likely be dead bu the time they're released.
- There was nothing remotely explicit in this movie. Nothing. Americans are so fucking puritanical.
- "I can't believe that Thorson was dumb enough to sign over the title to the L.A. penthouse, its contents, and 3 additional cars"
He was addicted to drugs at that time, probably had no idea what was going on.
- "Where are all the pedo trolls roaring about the fact that a guy almost 60 was fucking a teenage boy? If this was a guy and a teenage girl, what would they say?"
Oh, puhlease. Plenty of straight male rockers have bedded groupies even younger than 17. No one calls Steven Tyler names and he "dated" 14-year-old groupies.
- Someone posted this review of BTC in the Blue Is The Warmest Color thread, but having read it, I have to say the critic is spot-on. Probably the most insightful review yet.
She absolutely makes the correct point regarding Matt's casting.
[quote]To truly appreciate "Candelabra," it's best to view it as based on truth rather than as truth. Damon is 42 but looks younger in "Candelabra." But not young enough to approximate 18 – Thorson's age when he met Liberace. An age-appropriate actor in the role would create a different dynamic.
And I agree with her about the actors being brave, not for playing gay, but for showing such vulnerability in a couple of--on the out-set--unsympathetic characters. Douglas, in particular, surprised me at how willing he was to shed any vanity and literally let it all hang out. The scene where Scott bumps into Lee while he's still bald shocked me as much as it did the character. In Douglas' most in-demand years, he got a rep as being a vain actor, but I guess age and throat cancer have brought him down enough pegs that he no longer gives a fuck.
- This movie made me hot for Damon. He looked all of 24, pretty amazing for a 42 year old guy. And his ass, and body? Holy shit. His ass is round, just the right about of fleshy and perhaps a little short. A nice bubble. I want to bury my face in it.
- But would the butt really be enhanced from being seen on a seventy foot screen?
- When I saw Scott Thornson's photos from his youth linked upthread, the first thing that struck me was that he looked rather dopey. For someone who was in the foster system, he was remarkably unsavvy. No street smarts whatsoever if he signed away all of that.
- Per Wikipedia, Viagra didn't come on the market in the U.S. until 1998, and the reason it was such a runaway success was that prior to that men with serious potency problems did end up having to try things like vacuum pumps and penile implants.
It's quite possible Thorson would have had a fucked-up life even if he'd never met Liberace. Did that make what Liberace did to him all right? Would a 17-year old who'd been competently parented in a loving, stable home and who had a sense that he had some kind of a future be tempted to sell himself to a rich old man the way Scott did? I doubt it, but I guess it's possible.
- Just saw it on my DVR. Very, very good. Both Gouglas and Damon were at the top of their craft. Excellent performances. Though Douglas has the showy role and does an incredible job, Damon's performance is at times perfectly understated then controlled over the top rage. It is his best performance to date. Both men should be quite busy during the next awards season.
- Liberace with Vince Cardell ("Billy Leatherwood")
- Liberace was on Oprah just two months prior to his death. That's one old looking 67 year old queen. Must've been lying about his age by 15 years.
- I thought the actor who played the bitchy houseboy was good, too. I wonder if he really did warn Scott how everything would play out in the end?
Did poppers not come in a bottle back then? It was weird how Liberace had them in a tube that he snapped open.
- Except that being two months prior to death was the more likely explanation.
- Will Scott Bakula's career get a boost from his appearance?
- "Billy Leatherwood" looked like a handsomer version of Liberace...
- CARDILE, Vincent "Vince Cardell"Former protégé of Liberace, and master pianist of Opryland Hotel. Born 9-16-38 and died 5-29-12. He was the father of two, son, Anthony, and daughter, Christine, grandfather of, Aj and Gianna, and brother to Steven. In lieu of floral contributions, the family asks that contributions be made to the family. A cryptside ceremony will be conducted on Friday at 1 p.m. in the Serenity Chapel Mausoleum at Spring Hill Funeral Home and Cemetery, 5110 Gallatin Pike, Nashville, TN 37216.
- "Would a 17-year old who'd been competently parented in a loving, stable home and who had a sense that he had some kind of a future be tempted to sell himself to a rich old man the way Scott did?"
Plenty of people from stable homes would sell their a$$ for the right price....
Anyone can be bought.
- Is Bakula gay? Damn he was sexy in this, I love the 70's long haired look with hairy chest.
- Thorson did a lot of good in the beginning. He brought in Liberace's cook from L.A. and they both started to get chubby. Thorson loved Liberace's mother and tried to keep her company. I imagine on his deathbed Liberace thought back over how Scott, a foster child, really did try to bring Liberace's family together. The scene with the slot machine was in the book. They had one in the house for Mom, set to payoff more frequently. And she did demand that Liberace pay her the money she won.
After a few years of total isolation with Liberace, Scott fell into drugs. He claimed it was the plastic surgeon's "California Diet" that did it. That's his version of Liberace's "Watermelon Diet." The kid was a user who got used by a pro.
- [quote]Is Bakula gay?
No, but he's very gay-friendly.
The Voice of the Night
- I was surprised they didn't show that the plastic surgeon shot himself to death. He was being sued by all these people. He's the one who ruined Elaine Young's face.
- Wow. Pretty frank story. I saw it with my 80 year old mother today. God bless her...
Debbie Reynolds was AMAZING. Rob Lowe, too.
- "Does anyone remember ABC's and CBS's dueling Liberace TV movies from 1988? The former had Andrew Robinson as Lee and Rue McClanahan (!) as his mom; the latter had Victor Garber as Lee and Maureen Stapleton as his mom. The latter was also the more forthright of the two in depicting him as gay -- the ABC version was made with the cooperation his estate and tap-danced awkwardly around the subject."
I vaguely remember those two movies. I remember thinking that Andy Robinson looked a great deal like Liberace, what with his cheekbones, small eyes and wide, toothy grin. I just saw commercials for that one, not the actual movie.
I did watch the one with Victor Garber. In that one, the young Liberace appears to be RAPED by a woman an older woman! If I remember this correctly, they were in a car; she starts kissing him and disrobing and shoving his face in her bosom (she's a plump, blowsy broad). He doesn't resist, but is obviously repulsed. After this night of heterosexual passion inflicted on him Liberace goes home to his mother; he comes in, his clothes and hair disheveled, his face smeared with lipstick. He starts to weep with shame and revulsion and his mommy takes him into her arms to comfort him. And that is how Liberace lost his virginity. Why, no wonder he became gay! Seriously, I don't think that ever happened. It seemed like something the writers dreamed up to show the viewer just how Liberace "became" gay.
- I've fucked 8 times in one night. Yes, same guy.
- [quote]Did poppers not come in a bottle back then? It was weird how Liberace had them in a tube that he snapped open.
The poppers in the film were amyl nitrate in cloth covered glass tubes, available by prescription. The cloth protects the fingers when the tubes are snapped. Used by to relive the pain of angina attacks.
Liberace probably had them supplied by one of his doctors.
- It's a fucking TRAVESTY that this wont be eligible for the Oscars!!! Michael Douglas should be winning an Oscar, but he can't even be nominated. Lame.
meant to say used to relieve the pain of an angina attack
- It was OK. Damon and Douglas were very good. But it remained a biopic like hundreds of biopics we've seen before. Very conventionally treated.
- Poppers were available in bottles at least back in the mid-70s. I tried them for the first time in 1974.
"Rush" was the popular brand. I believe it was actually butyl nitrate.
- The movie was great and the Damon ass shots did not disappoint. What a fine, juicy ass he has.
- r383 - can you give me an example of an unconventionally treated biopic. I'm not being bitchy, I'd just like a few examples so I can better understand your criticism.
- They were the original and only poppers (named after the popping sound they made when you broke them). I remember gay men having them around when I was in my teens. Did not know a prescription was needed, but then again I was too young to know where to get them.
They were better than any little brown bottle facsimile these days.
- Not R383, but unconventional biopics tend to fictionalize more, to make the work more of a dramatic piece. Perhaps Amadeus? Fosse's Lenny and Ken Russell's Mahler.
Loved BTC. It avoided the 'My Week With Marilyn'/'The Queen' sterile approach, where the movies turn into "which famous person is this famous person impersonating"
- Aids wasn't dealt with very well either. All we get is a newscast Rock has died and a coroner saying Liberace died of complications of the Aids virus. Liberace wants an open relationship and fucks others Scott doesn't and lives. The couple do not tell each other to wear condoms...
I was okay with the vast age difference of Scott and Matt until the drug scenes. Matt looked every bit his age not a young guy looking old because of drugs...
I can see why this film got nothing in Cannes the French have made many brave gay films. Didn't one win this year?
Behind the Candelabra is the most overrated film of the year...
- What was the deal with Carlucci ?
Why was he so untouchable and guaranteed a place in Lee's life but everyone else had expiration dates ?
- He thought he was untouchable, quite wrong. Anyone can be discarded, that was the message.
- The Rock Hudson thing is how pretty much every gay documentary ever made introduces the AIDS crisis. Watching Vito and How to Survive a Plague back to back really hit home how generic that part of history seems in retellings.
The shot of the newspaper announcing Hudson's death needlessly telegraphed the rest of the film. The only thing it did was suggest why other excuses for his death weren't easily accepted.
- [quote]Why was he so untouchable and guaranteed a place in Lee's life but everyone else had expiration dates ?
What? I thought he was shown the door as soon as Scott expressed his discomfort with him.
Seymour cut him one last check and did the dirty did.
- [quote]unconventional biopics tend to fictionalize more
Oh I'm sure there's plenty of fiction in this one. Surely you don't consider Thorson, with his inconsistent revisionism, a 100% reliable source.
- did the dirty deed
- R383 here. Biopics that were also great movies and offered a unique point of view: to name a few...ED Wood, Citizen Kane, Lawrence of Arabia, Man on the Moon, Raging Bull
- I think when they showed his body looking good is was cgi. Don't think he would have gotten fit than fat for a HBO movie...
Easy to be brave to show yourself bald in a movie when you have a full head of hair in real life...
- [quote]What? I thought he was shown the door as soon as Scott expressed his discomfort with him
Damon looked amazing in the bedazzled speedo he was wearing in that scene.
That is all.
The Voice of the Night
- Thanks r383.
- R398, yeah totally agree, he looked hot in it!!
- When I was younger and gorgeous, I had many, many wealthy older men try to keep me. They were sweet and caring at first, but they could be very cruel after awhile. Most of them were self-loathing. I thought Michael Douglas portrayed the older predator perfectly. It was so spot-on that I got physically ill watching it.
- R223 you need to take anatomy class. It's anal not colon cancer that is connected to hpv. The anus and colon are two separate body parts located in different areas of the body.
- Did the Liberace estate have to pay back all the money in those lawsuits that he won?
- [quote] Did the Liberace estate have to pay back all the money in those lawsuits that he won?
- I wonder who was the main benefactor of Liberace's estate after he died? I bet that shady lawyer/manager that Dan Akroyd portrayed got a king's ransom.
- It's a fun movie, but I'd no more put stock in Thorson's POV as being 100% true than I'd assume that Mommie Dearest was a documentary.
- Who was the Green Bay Packer who popped Liberace's cherry?
- It's like "Mommie Dearest" but with good acting and a lot more feathers and sequins...
- The best scene in the entire movie is when Liberace and Scott stumble drunkenly into some adult video store, full white mink coats and all.
There were several times when I just sat there with my mouth agape at what Michael Douglas and Matt Damon were doing on screen. Lots of "OMFG!!!" moments.
- Where do all u people live that were So Shocked? There was nothing shocking in this movie.
- Roddy McDowell's book will certainly find an audience.
It won't set any records, but with the way that people still obsess today over what star was fucking what star in the 1930's no doubt Future Gays will salivate over Hollywood-homo-sex regardless of what era.
- "Who was the Green Bay Packer who popped Liberace's cherry?"
Yeah, I want to know, too. Dave Kopay isn't old enough. And even if he was... Just no.
- nobody has said they were shocked, except at the thought of waking up next to Gollum.
- Gods and Monsters would be an example of a bio-pic on a gay subject that went far beyond generically telling the story of a celeb's life.
I was very disappointed in last night's film. It may be that truth is stranger than fiction, but LaGravanese's screenplay and Soderbergh's direction gave no explanation why America and Scott Thorson were seduced by Liberace.
- I just saw Nurse Jackie and her younger cop boyfriend was in bed with her and she looked as bad as Liberace did. Edie Falco was carpeted in rhino skin wrinkles. The contrast to her young BF was horrifying.
- No one is "shocked" by the scenes, it's the sight of MICHAEL DOUGLAS and MATT DAMON doing them that gives people the flutters.
I mean, come on, it is funny to see Matt Damon plowing Michael Douglas from behind while doing poppers. That was a MOMENT.
- And the screenshots have cum!
- Has anyone put Damon and Douglas in the bi column as of yet?;) They are considered to be so straight that the gayness of the film comes across as shocking. I wonder if Joan Revolta or Tammy would have done this piece if asked.......
- Great painted on abs.
- That's not cum! It's Noxzema!
- R401 = hilarious eyeroll
- Rob Lowe looks like Wendy Malick.
- I remember reading an interview with Matt Damon about the production of this movie. He had agreed to go full-frontal in the scene when as he gets out of the pool and straddles Douglas. He said it wasn't a big deal for him. I was waiting for that moment in the film. The scene as explained was accurate, but they opted for a white speedo instead. I wonder who made the final decision about Damon's full-frontal and why.
- Much of the discussion here reminded me of Dan Savage's Campsite rule. I also discovered the lesser known Tea and Sympathy Rule.
Was Liberace or Scott worse going by these guidelines. Hard to say without knowing how it really went down but I think they both failed. Scott may not have if he had been treated better in the end though.
When in a relationship, especially with a younger person, leave them emotionally and physically at least as healthy as when you started seeing them. Do not risk giving them diseases, getting them pregnant, or emotionally abusing them.
Tea and Sympathy rule
Shortly after a 2009 scandal in Portland, Oregon involving openly gay mayor Sam Adams and Beau Breedlove, who had allegedly turned 18 almost immediately before the two began a sexual relationship, Savage created a companion rule to the "campsite rule," now known as the Tea and Sympathy rule. The rule is a reference to a line in the play of the same name, in which a much older woman states to a high-school-age boy, right before having sex with him: "Years from now, when you talk about this – and you will – be kind." Savage claimed in an article in The Portland Mercury that, while Adams followed the "campsite rule" – Breedlove did not claim that Adams had given him any diseases or caused him emotional trauma, and in fact still refers to Adams as a friend – Breedlove violated the Tea and Sympathy rule by making public statements that he knew could ruin Adams' career.
- Downloading in HD right now, will complete in a half hour. I actually thought it'd suck and I'd probably never see it, but it's clearly a quality production from the reviews.
- You'd be surprised, while sometimes it is the actors themselves that refuse to do full frontal, a lot of the time the director/a producer decides it would be too "distracting" and decides not to have a full frontal shot even though the actor would be willing if they wanted to.
- [quote] remember reading an interview with Matt Damon about the production of this movie. He had agreed to go full-frontal in the scene when as he gets out of the pool and straddles Douglas. He said it wasn't a big deal for him. I was waiting for that moment in the film. The scene as explained was accurate, but they opted for a white speedo instead. I wonder who made the final decision about Damon's full-frontal and why.
They probably shot it both ways and HBO gave them notes to cut the nudity. Look for it to be used in the European theatrical release.
- We were supposed to see Liberace masturbating in that video booth. But Douglas asked them not to because of his kids. He had a huge prosthetic he was supposed to lube up.
- Amyl Nitrite is what he had in the ampules by the bed. It is the real stuff.
Amyl Nitrate is what is legally sold as poppers.
NITRITE vs NITRATE.
- I also wondered about Scott's intelligence over signing over the titles to the cars and houses in return for only $75k. There must have been notes on the houses and cars and he was behind in payments, Why else would anyone sign such an unfavorable agreement? So he took the cash and gave up the property, which would have cost him some cash. I'm speculating, though.
Anyone know more about the settlement? Was Scott so drug-addled that he would do such a stupid thing?
- Liberace calling Scott "baby boy" and getting sexually aroused when Scott told him a woman said he looked like Liberace's son was the creepiest part. And he wanted to adopt him. So weird.
- [quote]We were supposed to see Liberace masturbating in that video booth. But Douglas asked them not to because of his kids. He had a huge prosthetic he was supposed to lube up.
No, there was a shot on the TV screen when he was in bed watching porn and you see the action. That's where the line about fitting in his throat is.
- [quote]And he wanted to adopt him. So weird
That wasn't that weird. It was way that gay couples could deal with inheritance rights in the years before we had gay marriage.
I'm sure Lee's purpose was a little more Freudian, but it wasn't necessarily the only reason.
The Voice of the Night
- Adopting a lover was the closest that two gay men could get to having the legal protections and benefits that married couples enjoy. There are several instances of older gay men legally adopting their younger lovers.
- Now that I think of it, I think Michael Jackson was inspired a lot by Liberace both aesthetically and lifestyle.
- God, Lee sure liked them husky, didn't he? By the looks of the pictures of his past lovers, they were all pudgy and goofy looking...much like himself. I can't believe he paid for any of these boys. They look so nondescript.
It should have been 'candle & a bra' for Michael Douglas (that lighting was harsh).
- Douglas looked better after the plastic surgery which was another false note since most men DON'T esp if their doctor is a hack...
- R436 He was from the midwest. Land of the husky boy.
- Rob looked like Way Bandy, the makeup artist Scavullo used on his Cosmo shoots.
- Just finished it. Really enjoyed it. Thoroughly entertaining. Great performances.
But, it was, IMO, completely predictable. Thorson being replaced by a young guy similar to how he replaced Billy Leatherwood was obvious from the moment he and Billy were in the same room together early in the film. And, the "lonely gay" themes (and drug use, and jealously, and freakout by Thorson) were exactly what I'd expect.
But, again, very entertaining.
When Liberace calls Thorson to come see him at the end of the movie, Thorson seems like he has a stable, if low key, life. So, he got into all of his trouble completely after Liberace died?
- When Lee read a scathing write-up about his appeal, he supposedly said, "I cried all the way to the bank!".
He also allegedly said that he, too, made his contribution to Motion Pictures; that is, he STOPPED making them.
Despite his private life and persona, it's amazing what he gave of himself, for the entertainment of millions. It seems very, very difficult to be giving so much, even considering the returns. But the panelists did emphasize his generosity.
- Elton was a more direct descendant.
- r443 what panelists? What appeals?
- Lowe did look. Like Way Bandy
- [quote]Anyone know more about the settlement? Was Scott so drug-addled that he would do such a stupid thing?
I tried to look up the information. Wikipedia says that Thorson claims he settled because he knew that Liberace was ill. Which lines up to the particulars to the settlement not disclosed at the time. I assumed it was because his lawyer knew that this was a fight he wouldn't win seeing as how Liberace sued and won a judgement against a tabloid for saying he was gay.
Thorson was actually paid more by the National Enquirer for selling his story than what he got from Liberace.
- I don't The Enquirer gave him much.
- They could have added 20 minutes to the film cast Eva Mendes as Charo THAT would have been a good movie AND hired a brave gay director of course...
- I thought it was terrible. After those reviews, I was really expecting something terrific, and it wasn't. And yes, Damon was good, but it would have been a lot more effective had they cast an actor who could portray teens to twenties.
- Goodbye Steven Soderbergh. You won't be missed...
- I'll miss him, from "out of sight" to this I've always enjoyed his work
- Soderbergh is a fantastic director.
- I agree with those complaining about the leads casting to some extent, but then I remember they had a tough time getting this made at all. Maybe Michael and Matt were the best they could do, and they did an above-average, if imperfect, job. I wonder if it had budgetary limitations too, because of the subject matter. The movie was definitely pretty good and worth seeing, despite the flaws.
- What I'm saying is they might have had a hard time finding actors to take those roles. Heath and Jake were far from Ang Lee's first choices for BBM, he got turned down constantly and started worrying he'd never get the movie made. Of course it's nearly 10 yrs later now, but I don't know how much has changed. Matt and Michael were reasonably well cast, just maybe not perfectly.
- I just finished watching it and I found it riveting - I recall that Oscar appearance and he really was in a career resurgence when he died, due to the Oscars and Radio City.
Both leading men were superb - and both have long histories with Steven Soderbergh, so that was why they were cast.
Special kudos to Dan Aykroyd, oh was he spot-on.
One moment which I found chilling was Liberace's cold reaction after his Mother's funeral. Debbie Reynolds was fabulous in her small role.
- why is Steven Soderbergh retiring so early? how much is he worth?
- Just finished watching it. It was ok. Loved seeing Matt and Michael kiss.
Wish someone could leak a sex tape of Matt Damon giving head like there's no tomorrow to his secret male lover.
- "Billy Leatherwood" looks like Bea Arthur's son, R370!!! Chest hair and all.
- R412, I had to look up Dave Kopay. He was cute at one time. Now, he looks like my Pop-Pop.
- Who played the stunt piano player for Michael Douglas?
I liked the fact that Bob and Scott liked Liberace's performance and didn't think it lame like people would today. I also liked how polite they were.
My slight criticism is sometimes I couldn't tell if Liberace was being real or phony.
- Sometimes Michael Douglas sounded like Carol Channing.
- R449, Not Eva Mendes, but Sofia Vergara as Charo! And throw in Christina Hendricks as Ann-Margret!!!
- Between this and "Ripley" Matt Damon gives good gay. The longer he sticks around, the better I like this guy. It's not the gay thing nor is it the laudable Damon Butt. It's that he's becoming a stronger actor every time he takes a swing at it and he's willing to take risks with his career. It's interesting and cool.
Michael Douglas surprised me, even shocked me. There's been something about him that I haven't liked for a while. I don't know what it was but it's gone. He was fan-fucking-tastic. Whatever his issues for the past few years, as an actor that man has BIG HUGE BALLS OF STEEL. Good for him.
I'm old enough to remember Liberace. For the person criticizing how the film didn't give "the reason why Scott and America fell in love with Liberace" all I can tell you is that while the film made Scott's reason clear to me, there was no reason for America to love Liberace. He was a good pianist, glitter bomb Vegas showman, obvious closet case, smarmy for days, had a weird - almost innocent - sweetness, an annoyingly nasal voice and the wardrobe of a millionaire drag queen on a lifetime meth binge.
His popularity in prudish, homophobic, parochial America was inexplicable. I really liked that the film showed that, and how weird it was, without trying to make it understandable. It was not understandable then and it still isn't now. Well, except that it falls under the Great American Freak Appreciation Gene - one of our strangest and best qualities.
Soderbergh's retirement from directing is a real loss. He, too, has got a gigantic pair on him when so many directors are dickless wonders. If we're lucky he'll take a few years off and then come back for a while.
After watching "Behind the Candelabra" last night, I kept thinking of that Hunter S. Thompson line, "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro."
- I agree the best most honest scene was Liberace going to an adult bookstore BUT afterwards wise 20 year old Scott played by someone 20 years older told Liberace that was wrong...
- I was just watching it. I got through about an hour before I walked away from boredom. What happens at the end-does he die?
- SPOILER>>>>>>>>Not only that but Mattie watches a clip thats not really a clip of Liberace performing a big number wearing angel wings as he flies to heaven. Mattie looks like he is totally in love...
- It was enjoyable enough. Not great, but certainly campy and over the top.
That said, if I didn't know who Liberace was before watching it, I don't think anything in the movie would have really filed me in on his place in American culture.
Why was he so beloved by America? Why was he able to sell out houses? What really made him so entertaining? None of that really came across in this movie.
- I don't know why everyone calls it campy. Liberace was campy not the movie. Mommie Dearest is campy.
If you look at the clip of the Liberace's lover before Scott he was also trying to mold him in his own image. The movie tried to be a love story but in fact the relationship was probably very sick...
- Sorry, I know this is seldom appreciated, but if I may introduce a bit of estrogen into the reviews and dissection.
The fact was and is that girls enter into the same sort of sugar daddy situation that Lib and Thorson frequently. And yes, often the girls become quite attached emotionally to the less attractive older man. But, when they outgrow the "fresh object of affection" stage, and the older man wishes to extricate himself from the arrangement, the women are unlikely to be treated as poorly as Thorson. They hold a greater power over the man than threatening to out him. They threaten to inform the wife, which could lead to divorce and hence 50% of the sugar daddy's wealth. See Alfred Bloomindale, Ronald Reagan's best bud.(murdered)
Also, I am at a loss as to why a few of you cannot understand America's or Thorson's attraction to and fondness for Lib. I am a 50 year old woman, so granted Lib doesn't seem so old and icky to me as he would to the under 30 crowd, but I found myself wishing I could have seen him perform during the Vegas years. I was there on layovers and saw Sinatra, Newton, Goulet and Bennett, but in my 20s I didn't think Lib was "cool" so I passed. I really regret that now. Secondly, at my current age, I was not skeeved out by Douglas's appearance
with the exception of the bald scene. I don't think the real Lib was unattractive for a man in his 50s and if it weren't for his gaudy outfits and affinity for scads of jewelry, I never thought he was all that queenish in his Mike Douglas and Carson interviews. Having known Merv Griffin fairly well, HE was a real queen in his private life. But his Republican Brooks Brothers image kept the flame a bit lower in public. But you haven't seen queen until you were a guest a Merv's home in Palm Springs and saw him in his full glory! He made Lib look like Dick Butkus.
Finally, there was at least one precedent that I am aware of for the adoption scheme. During her latter years, a woman of my age was living with Doris Duke at her Hawaiian estate. Doris expressed her desire to adopt her, and Duke's attys went apeshit. They were certain she was taking advantage of Miss Duke and it became quite the scandal. But clearly she felt that the one way to be certain that the younger woman would always have full access to her and her money would be to legally make her a family member. If anyone saw the TV biopic with Richard Chamberlain as Bernard Lafferty, you know this didn't end well.
- [quote]so many directors are dickless wonders.
Not Bryan Singer!
WeHo Twink Still Walking Funny
- "His popularity in prudish, homophobic, parochial America was inexplicable."
Not really. Think about it. Everyone wants to get their freak on, but how can you do that in a Puritan society and not get labeled a freak yourself? You sublimate. You "take a walk on the wild side" and go see Liberace. Don't you wish you could show up the girls at the bridge club by showing up in a 16 foot fur coat covered in diamonds? But, oh, how they would cluck at you afterwards. Why not watch Liberace do it for you?
And don't discount the music. Pure Lawrence Welk, but classier! (It's classical, right?) Well, obviously not. But it markets low brow entertainment with a high brow gloss.
- Why would we want to read Liberace's autobiography when Scott Thorson's was closer to the truth. I don't want to read about the love of his life, Sonja Henie, who is haunting Connie Steven's house, just ask Connie. And it's true, the quack botched his eye job and he couldn't close his eyes while sleeping for years until the skin sagged again.
R253, If you read my poster, you would have known that I did not mention Liberace's autobiography. I mentioned a biography that was written way after Liberace was dead. The BIOGRAPHY is no hold's barred. R253, is there a book about Henie's ghost haunting Connie Steven's home? that would be interesting to read.
I once read that Liberace was extremely generous giving people gifts especially at Christmas time which he adored. Apparently many, many so called friends would go out of their way to go to a party of Liberace's, especially his Christmas parties to receive presents and once he gave them gifts, they made excuses that they had to leave.
The posters that are asking about what was the appeal about Liberace. He had an enormous following by woman who were usually older not always ,and they thought he was a charming young man who was entertaining, adorable, he could be funny, who seemed like when he was in public, he didn't take himself seriously and he played the piano.Hell! this is a true story. My grandmother was deaf ,and she loved to watch him on his TV show in the 50s. She thought he was a charming and adorable. Many people years ago knew he was gay while others were in denial,but he had a personality that was really well liked. I remember Debbie Reynolds once said that Liberace camped it up in full volume for his audience because he knew his audience loved it ,and he was a show man who knew that it made him successful. Also, Liberace was always a feast for the eye displaying such extravagant material wealth jewels, furs, cars. etc. parading in front of a female audience who desired those very things.
I wasn't a fan of Liberace's when I was a little kid in the 80s ,but ,I posted this before, when I saw his TV tour of his super high end antique collection, I thought I was going to faint! After that, I was a big FAN OF HIS ANTIQUES, WOW! I bought an auction catalog years later ,which pictures his myriad of museum quality antiques. I posted this before on this thread, but he put cheap plastic made in China shit next to jaw dropping beautiful objects and furniture.
Here is Liberace talking about his public image verses the real person. BTW, at the beginning Ron Regan, EWWWWW, interviews Liberace.
I agree with those people who have stated Liberace should have a museum put back up in Las Vegas some where. I know the guy as a creep, but as an entertainer, he was the core of Las Vegas. He was one of the first people to have shows in Las Vegas that were big money makers ,and he was on of the pinnacle entertainers in the history of Vegas next to Frank Sinatra which should be remembered.
BTW,I think Scott might possibly be lying about his age a bit. I think he is older. I haven't seen the movie ,but I find it really hard to believe Liberace was happy when his mother died. Liberace shower his mother with furs and jewels and was thrilled to buy her anything she wanted. He loved to take care of her like Elvis did. Liberace's famliy went through a rough ride in the depression. I don't think he was close to his father though.
- Some poster mentioned that when a gay suggardaddy goes after a young kid it is considered much more horrifying than a straight man going after a young girl, I would have to disagree. The people that I know think people like Jack Nicholson for example, who is know for having sex with 13 year old girls at Roman Polanski's parties in Paris is completely disgusting and these guys should be thrown in jail. I think most sane people think an older man playing suggardaddy to young kids regardless of the sexual orientation, makes them sick and it disturbs them greatly. THEY ARE KIDS! HELLO!
- R474 In the recent past men thought it was a right to get involved with much younger women. Especially Europeans like Polanski where a much younger man-woman relationship wasn't frowned upon as much.American society has covertly always been a culture that is more focused on youth and beauty however God forbid if an Older man wants a young man or a young woman.
I get your point about the criminality of it all. Polanski got sent to jail for what he did. He didn't get away scotfree now did he? He escaped to France where such a discretion was not seen as disturbing as it was in the US.
As for Lib and Scott, what was the age of consent in Nevada in the 70s? Their relationship might have been technically legal.
As for the camp factor, there were camp moments to the film like the ending. Liberace's ascent to heaven was so over the top it fit Lib's MO and stage style to the nth degree which was high camp. The sex shop scene was kinda/sorty campy. I wonder if they will show Lib pumping his cock in the European version....
- Other camp in the movie:
The boy maid, his style, and the way he got dismissed.
The piano score to different dramatic and comedic moments (like the aforementioned dismissal and the obligatory whore movie shopping-spree montage).
Pausing in the middle of a big serious argument with his buddy to ponder which car they should take
- If Scott was so moral that he was opposed to porn, bottoming, and an open relationship, why did he have no problem helping increase the GDP of Colombia?
Or are we just to assume that it was Rob Lowe's fault? Or Lee's fault indirectly?
The Voice of the Night
- Don't laugh but watching this movie made me think of the Clay Aiken saga. Granted, Aiken was just a minor celebrity compared to Liberace but here was Aiken with this huge older female fan base trying to appear straight by having a few female "dates" on his arm. But in private, he was trolling the internet for hookups until one went bad and decided to pickup the phone and call the Enquirer. When Matt Damon questioned Liberace's boldness going to the adult store - something so stupid for a celebrity to do - I kept thinking about seeing all those webcam photos of Aiken online wondering why the hell would a celebrity do that? Did they want to be outed?
Also, don't know if this was posted but this is an interesting summary of what happened to all the main characters.
- R223's link of "Liberace House in Ruins" is nonsense. The place actually looks reasonably well tended, especially for something that, even at its prime, was a fucking dump, of shoddy construction.
In the "before" footage from decades ago, you can see buckling and unevenness in (ridiculously low) ceiling of that vast warehouse of a room on the main floor. It's an inevitable effect of using drywall for such a large, uninterrupted ceiling (and then painting it in a glossy finish.)
As for Lee's genuine antique "treasures", they were treasures in the sense of Michael Jackson's prize loot: pieces of very dubious provenance sold by unscrupulous and unqualified individuals who were themselves more showmen than knowledgeable dealers.
It's all part of that Gabor Sisters Euroglitz taste of the 1960s and 1970s: Marie Antoinette's this, Napoleon's that, Caligula's marble bath tub (a chunk of Mexican onyx buried in cow manure for six-months and labeled "Ancient Roman"), the axe that George Washington used to cut down the cherry tree -- with three new axe-heads and two new handles. If he had $250,000 worth (in today's money) of decent, passably old things of passable quality, I would be surprised.
[quote]Did the Liberace estate have to pay back all the money in those lawsuits that he won?
- The next time I buy property, I want R479 to go with me.
- r481, anyone who is "greatly disturbed" that Liberace may have had sex with Scott when he was 17, needs to get a life. That would've been inappropriate, but only an hysteric would consider it molestation. Btw, is there anything more than rumors that they did sleep together the first time when he was underage? Am I just supposed to believe it with no proof? There's probably not even any verifiable proof that anything illegal happened.
- I meant r474
- I read a review by a reader on Amazon on Scott's book ,and the person said Scott now says he was not 18 but 16 years old when he started having an affair with Liberace. The reader said it now makes sense what Scott went through ,but the reader said on the other hand if Scott changed his age after he wrote the book, is he telling the truth or not? Also, Scott was working on sequel to his book , with the same co author but he got arrested ,which put a halt to the project. Maybe he might postpone the sequel? lets hope. Apparently Scott has more things to say. Maybe he'll include his sexual affair with Micheal Jackson.
Is there any hope that Roddy McDowell's journals, and Liz Taylor's memoirs will be released soon? Someone should push that information to come out sooner. I am aware someone said in this thread they did that so those who are still alive won't get hurt ,but almost everyone is dead from the golden era of Hollywood so I doubt anyone will get hurt. In 50-100 years people won't give a rat's ass, Please! don't torture us like this! we need to know now dammit!
BTW, I watched an old interview on Youtube ,which Dick Cavett interviewed Mae West. Mae said she kept a dairy and she believed everything should be recorded. What happen to Mae West's diary? She didn't have any children so who has it ,and why doesn't the person or persons publish it?
- Why did Scott avoid getting AIDS, or did he?
Any other of Lee's "protogees" get AIDS?
Not that Liberace died of AIDS of course
- R482- it is not just the underage thing. Here is this kid - a foster kid- who Liberace treated like a plaything and sort of discarded when he was finished w/him leaving him worse than when they started the affair.
However, I am suspicious about the claims that Scott and Michael Jackson had an affair..that seems to unbelievable-both Michael J AND Liberace? really?
- R485, the movie suggests Scott avoided AIDS by being a top.
The young blond singer with the mustache, who wound up spending four years with Liberace, also got AIDS and died in 1997.
- That armpit shot of Damon is sexier than any other shot. Why am I so turned on by ARMPITS!? I always found this to be a very strange fetish of mine, since I was a young kid. Anyhow - off to fap looking at that clip...
- OMG R437 that is the funniest thing ever!!
- I agree 488, 1st time I've ever found anything on Matt Damon sexy
- Obviously Scott said he avoided anal sex. I guess he thinks that's why he didn't get aids? I don't know why he didn't get sex...maybe he used condoms?
- [quote]the movie suggests Scott avoided AIDS by being a top.
And Liberace like to go to backroom at bookstores and have sex with lots of men.
- Right r486, it was inappropriate and immoral, but it wasn't molestation. And that's the point I was responding to, someone said Lee & Scott were just the same as when Polanski molested the 13 yr old girl. Ridiculous.
- I thought it was terrible as well, there were no likeable characters and the sets were so garish. What was with all the mirrors, was it symbolic of something? Did they have to have so many little yappy dogs? The clothes were weird, too. There wasn't any good music either. You can see I hated this movie. I am sure the problem was the director Baz could have done a much better job.
- Yes there was good music, it opened with Donna Summer's "I Feel Love" which is very good indeed.
- how was Rob Lowe in it?
- Rob and Debbie were both great!!
The slot machine scene was hysterical.
- Thorson told Larry King that he's HIV-negative.
- You did know you were watching a movie about a flamboyant gay entertainer, r394, correct? That explains most of the complaints on your list, all of them as a matter of fact.
- And R494- Lee LOVED yappy dogs! And garish furniture and he was known from playing the piano w/flourish. Did you want JayZ to add some rap to the soundtrack? A minimalist house design?
And R493- you are right too. Certainly Liberace should not have been arrested.
- The story is being told from Scott the Hustler's POV, so of course his downfall is someone else's fault.
- Did people get this hysterical when Jerry Seinfeld who was almost 40, started dating Shoshanna Lowenstein who was 17 and still in high school at the time?
- Barry Manilow is the closest thing to Liberace today. He's not flashy like Lee was, but he's still in the closet and has lots of adoring female fans who flock to his Vegas shows.
- The following site tells a lot about Liberace, his young boys and all.
- Elton John has turned into Liberace
- In Elton's younger days he started copying Liberace's style of dress.
- Elton's the rock version of Liberace.
- R502 that is a false equivalency.
Shoshanna was born into wealth in Manhattan and attended a very exclusive Upper East Side girls school - the Nightingale-Bamford School. Her father was a CEO of a company. Therefore her time with Seinfeld was more akin to Gloria Vanderbilt's dating and first marriage than that of an unemployed male hustler from a lower class, white trash, Midwestern background.
- So much of what Thorson says during interviews contradicts previous statements. Why should be believe his take on anything?
- Elton is an out gay man and has adopted children.
Barry Manilow has never publicly come out as gay. And he performs in Vegas to his adoring female fans. His female fans are as just as oblivious as Liberace's were.
- From the moment the movie opened with Donna Summer's "I Feel Love" and the actual 1977 HBO logo, I knew this movie was going to be pure gold.
- When Scott met Liberace, they talked about his ailing poodle, Baby Boy. The same "pet name" he liked to croon to Scott. Scott was just another pet.
- Scott Bakula made my Quantum Leap to attention. He is soooo hot.
- Yes, Manilow's fans are in denial. My aunt and her friends adore him, and she was so shocked when I told her he was one of the boys.
- [quote]the actual 1977 HBO logo
Yes! I gasped in Mary! delight when I saw that.
- It's insane that Debbie Reynolds played the mother! I didn't even know until I read it on here. Bravo, Ms. Reynolds!
- one of the best movies I've seen in 2 years.
Great acting. Great script.
- Liked it a lot but found it to be too sympathetic to Scott (which makes sense, it was from his book). It made Lee out to be a whore monger and pervert and Scott to be a innocent nave who only got hooked on drugs because Lee wanted him to get surgery. The truth lies somewhere is the middle I suppose.
Scott took the $75k because he was a junky, was broke, and needed a fix.
Douglas was really good. He nailed the voice - it may have sounded over the top and nasal-ly, but go watch some of the youtube vids of Lee and you will be stunned how well Douglas got it.
I really liked the clothes and the hair. It all seemed so tacky and polyester. It was a flashback to Welcome Back Kotter.
And Rob fucking Lowe. Nailed the coked out LA scenester perfectly.
- Both lead actors really took a step forward with this.
- What was the deal with Paul Reiser's voice? He sounded nothing like his old self.
- I also thought using the 1977 HBO logo was inspired.
The movie reminded me a lot of Boogie Nights.
- R488, agree about the armpit. So sexy!!!
- Do you think Ryan Murphy is going to be able to top Candelabra with The Normal Heart?
- [quote]Barry Manilow is the closest thing to Liberace today.
What about Cee-Lo?
The Voice of the Night
- [quote]The movie reminded me a lot of Boogie Nights.
Incidentally, post-Liberace Scott was present at the Wonderland murders, which were fictionalized in Boogie Nights in that "Sister Christian" scene. Same druggie demimonde.
- [quote]Do you think Ryan Murphy is going to be able to top Candelabra with The Normal Heart?
No. As pompous as I might find Steven Soderbergh, he's got more talent in his smallest fart than Ryan Murphy does in his entire body.
Not to mention that Murphy will have Larry Kramer bitching about every choice that he makes that doesn't meet with Larry's approval.
Also, I doubt they'd get the period details with anywhere near the verisimilitude that Soderbergh's production designer did.
The Voice of the Night
- [bold] HBO’s ‘Behind The Candelabra’ Hits Near-Decade Viewership Record [/bold]
Steven Soderbergh’s look at the tempestuous secret love affair between Liberace and his onstage driver hit some high notes for HBO on Sunday. Helmed by the Oscar-winning director, Behind The Candelabra was watched by 2.4 million viewers on Sunday at 9 PM. That’s the most viewers an HBO original movie premiere has garnered since 2.6 million watched Something The Lord Made on May 30, 2004. Candelabra also did considerably better than HBO’s last biopic, on record producer Phil Spector. Starring Al Pacino and Helen Mirren, the film about Spector’s first trial for the 2003 death of actress Lana Clarkson pulled in 754,000 viewers in its 9 PM airing on March 24. Overall, Phil Spector had 1.039 million viewers over two plays on March 24. Across two plays Sunday, Candelabra had a total of 3.5 million viewers watching the 9 PM and 11 PM broadcasts.
Based on Scott Thorson’s 1988 memoir, the heavily promoted Candelabra stars Michael Douglas as the gilded piano player and Matt Damon as the much younger Thorson. Dan Aykroyd, Scott Bakula and Rob Lowe co-starred in the two-hour biopic. Also in competition at Cannes this year, Candelabra was written by Fisher King scribe Richard LaGravenese and executive produced by Jerry Weintraub. The film will be released theatrically in the UK next month.
- [quote]The movie reminded me a lot of Boogie Nights.
Completely agree. It really immerses you in a certain time and place that no longer exists. Very atmospheric.
God, I can't believe that soon they'll be making period piece movies about the 90s LOL.
- [quote]Not to mention that Murphy will have Larry Kramer bitching about every choice that he makes that doesn't meet with Larry's approval.
I don't think Larry Kramer has a say.
Writers and playwrights get paid a lump sum for their work. Except for a few rare circumstances in which the writer is a mega-star whose name carries weight or whose enterprise can be affected by the outcome, what's done with their material in adaptation is beyond their control.
Or am I not aware of some stipulation in Larry's deal? (It is, after all, called LARRY KRAMER's The Normal Heart)
- [quote]It made Lee out to be a whore monger and pervert and Scott to be a innocent nave
Who died of AIDS and who didn't?
- I have a lot more respect for Douglas now. I always use to think he was kind of an asshole but he can't be that bad if he's willing to portray Liberace with such frank honesty. Love, love, love.
I wonder what Catherine Zeta-Jones was thinking when she watched it.
- I think Scott didn't die of AIDS because I think he is actually telling the truth about his sexuality. I believe that he got caught up with Liberace but I don't think he liked to have sex with men in his everyday life after Liberace showed him the door. I think he might have fooled around here and there but nothing really serious, and he didn't get fucked in the ass, which is key. I think people like Scott Thorson are more attracted to wealth and power, male or female, than anything else. He had sex with Liberace because he had to, not because he had some deep sexual desire to.
- [quote]I don't think Larry Kramer has a say.
Even if Larry doesn't have any official control over the production, I will guarantee that he'll take up arms, probably on Huffington Post, about the numerous flaws he's sure to find in it.
The Voice of the Night
- [quote] I wonder what Catherine Zeta-Jones was thinking when she watched it.
She was thinking, "Damn! I wish that Jack Startz was still around!"
- Oh, opinionated commentary is definitely a given with Kramer, VOTN. But as far as actually yielding any power (other than the power of the written word) over the production, I guess we'll see.
- I'll bet Liberace was such a sex addict that he was trolling around for sex all day in bookstores, tea rooms and with hustlers other than Scott. He probably didn't need to have sex with Scott that often since he'd already gotten off several times a day before he was in bed with Scott. I am sure Scott was off doing his own thing all day as well, drugs and sex with others. That's what happened in those days - I am sorry to say. Maybe Scott had that resistance to the AIDs virus that some seem to have had. Maybe Scott was cut and Liberace wasn't - I have read that was a factor as well.
- "I think people like Scott Thorson are more attracted to wealth and power, male or female, than anything else."
There is an article upstream in the Guardian about Scott's life after Liberace. At some point, he married a fundamentalist Christian woman. She frankly admits they had sex 1 time in their 10 year relationship.
When Scott was arrested in a hotel room in Reno, he was with another man.
Like so many "bisexuals" Scott isn't being completely honest with himself.
- He didn't marry her r537, she took him in and they lived together for 10 years.
As is the case with all people who just take and use people, it's difficult to discern their true sexuality, as hustling and using people takes precedence over anything else, and they are able to make themselves cum, at least the first few times.
- Rob Lowe looked like LaToya Jackson. But not as white.
Cheyenne is a really wonderful actor and, I hope, some day he gets the right vehicle to push him all the way to the top.
He's just the right combination of gorgeous/goofy.
- Scott had sex with Liberace, you can't get much gayer than that.
- lol R540
- [quote]Completely agree. It really immerses you in a certain time and place that no longer exists. Very atmospheric.
I love movies like this. Candelabra, Boogie Nights and Zodiac are all great examples of movies that perfectly recaptured the 70s.
The Normal Heart is going to be very raunchy and in-your-face with the gay sex from what I hear. Probably more so than Candelabra. They were casting a few weeks ago for the big gay bar and bathhouse scenes.
- Rob Lowe just signed on to play JFK (Gennifer Goodwin to play Jackie) in a tv movie version of Bill O'reilley's book Killing Kennedy.
I hope he has a neckbrace....talk about your whiplash.
- "I wonder what Catherine Zeta-Jones was thinking when she watched it."
That Matt Damon is a male version of herself: Near 40 years old and still able to convincingly portray someone 20 years younger.
- R542, I'm sure that things have been reimagined for television, but I was in "The Normal Heart" in college and there were no "big gay bar and bathhouse scenes" in the original play.
- [quote]I also thought using the 1977 HBO logo was inspired.
That gimmick has been used for a while now - Zodiac used the old Paramount logo, for instance. I've seen the late 70s/early 80s Warner Brothers logo pop up recently. It isn't a fresh idea.
- Argo. Argo used the old school WB logo.
- They should've used that awesome music that always sounded like something you'd hear behind a disco camel caravan.
- [quote] Rob Lowe just signed on to play JFK (Gennifer Goodwin to play Jackie) in a tv movie version of Bill O'reilley's book Killing Kennedy.
Ick, showing his Repug leanings again, I see. I'll bet he'll be talking up the loathsome O'Reilly in interviews too.
- [quote]I also thought using the 1977 HBO logo was inspired.
I loved that too! Took me back to when my family first got cable.
- I didn't know HBO hadn't been around that long. I didn't get cable until the late 1990s.
- I got goosebumps when I saw the 1977 HBO logo and heard Donna Summer's "I Feel Love". You guys who were around during that time were so damn lucky. Gays seemed so much happier, carefree and sexier than the gays of today.
- "Gays seemed so much happier, carefree and sexier than the gays of today."
Wrong. Gays were WAAAAAAY more likely to be closeted then...when people talk about gays in the 70s they mean OUT gays who were "on the scene"
- "Who died of AIDS and who didn't?"
Please, like that matters. I know plenty of guys who were whores in the 70s/80s who are still around. Look at John Travolta...
"Shoshanna was born into wealth in Manhattan and attended a very exclusive Upper East Side girls school - the Nightingale-Bamford School. Her father was a CEO of a company. Therefore her time with Seinfeld was more akin to Gloria Vanderbilt's dating and first marriage than that of an unemployed male hustler from a lower class, white trash, Midwestern background."
None of that matters, you are trying to justify your double standard. Liberace didn't put a gun to Scott's head and force him to be his sexual partner. I guess you think rich people are the only ones allowed to date much older people, for some reason...
- Fascinates me that people come to a GAY GOSSIP site to argue that people aren't gay. Special place in hell for you losers.
Of course he's gay. It's far more likely that he's self-hating, hence the mess.
- He was abandoned by both of his parents, was moved from place to place and desperately wanted somewhere to call home and "fit in."
If a person has a desperate need to fit in and garner approval, it makes sense that he would attempt to be straight - like most everyone else.
- I figure Scott was a hustler and a con-artist from the beginning, never a victim. Just look at his "career" and continuing criminal record to figure out who and what he has always been.
- [quote]The Normal Heart is going to be very raunchy and in-your-face with the gay sex from what I hear. Probably more so than Candelabra. They were casting a few weeks ago for the big gay bar and bathhouse scenes.
Yes, but the difference will be that "The Normal Heart" cast is B list actors. Mark Ruffalo, Jim Parsons, Matt Bomer, Taylor Kitsch. A-lister Julia Roberts is attached to the project, but she isn't a gay male doing raunchy scenes.
The fun shock of Candelabra was seeing A list male actors like Douglas and Damon buttfucking and going to porn shops. Usually A-listers don't touch this sort of subject matter.
- I also heard Soderbergh on NPR and he talked about his abandoned project to film a bio about Leni Riefenstahl. He described the script as a tribute to an artist who overlooked what the subject matter was (pro-Nazi propaganda) and said he ultimately felt no one would want to see such a thing and I'm like, 'I would! I would!".
- R556...right. That's why the closet becomes a trap for people.
But what fascinates me is that some people here don't seem to understand the closet at all. What's THEIR story?? Why come to a gay gossip site to argue that someone who clearly is gay, isn't gay? Particularly given that most of us get how the closet works?
- Maybe this has been posted already ( a large thread so I didn't read all the posts ) But this is from EW:
Behind the Candelabra' ratings dazzle
HBO’s Liberace biopic Behind the Candelabra lit up the network’s ratings Sunday night.
The Steven Soderbergh film delivered 2.4 million viewers in its first airing, making it the most-watched HBO Film title in almost a decade (since 2004′s Something the Lord Made). Across two Sunday plays, Candelabra totaled 3.5 million viewers. The performance is especially impressive coming on Memorial Day weekend, when TV viewing levels typically decline several percent. Compare Candelabra‘s performance to HBO’s previous recent record-settter Game Change, which had 2.1 million viewers for its Saturday night debut last year.
Candelabra stars Michael Douglas as the Vegas legend and Matt Damon as his young lover Scott Thorson, whose memoir of their rocky five-year relationship served as the basis for the film. Candelabra garnered very positive reviews (EW posted two takes, one that was mixed and another from Cannes that was enthusiastic).
The film aired instead of HBO’s Game of Thrones, which will resume this weekend. Candelabra premiered just before the deadline for this year’s Emmy consideration; the film will almost certainly be a strong contender in the long-form categories.
- [quote] Incidentally, post-Liberace Scott was present at the Wonderland murders,
R525, please explain.
- Here ya go, R562. By this account, he wasn't actually AT the murder scene.
- Nevermind, R525. Unless you re privy to other info you have that confused. Thorson was not at the Wonderland killings. Thorson witnessed Holmes being beaten to give up the names of those he helped gain access to Nash's house so they could rob Nash. Here is what Wiki says - taken with a Wiki grain of salt.
[quote]Nash suspected Holmes had been involved and ordered Diles to bring Holmes to his house. Diles found Holmes on a street in Hollywood wearing one of the rings that had been stolen from Nash and brought him back to Nash. Nash directed Diles to beat Holmes and Nash threatened to kill both Holmes and his family until Holmes identified the people behind the robbery. The beating was witnessed by Scott Thorson, former boyfriend of Liberace, who was making a drug buy at Nash's home
- R564, Thorson was a prosecution witness at the trial against Eddie Nash.
- [quote]Wrong. Gays were WAAAAAAY more likely to be closeted then...when people talk about gays in the 70s they mean OUT gays who were "on the scene"
I disagree with you. From everything I've seen and heard, the 70s were the Golden Age for gays. It was the height of the Sexual Revolution and gays were leading the way. I've watched the Fire Island, Provincetown and NYC documentaries on Logo, and those times were clearly electric, carefree and FUN. You should read the book, "Dancer from the Dance" for a detailed description of that magical time. Even with all the sex going on then, there seemed to be a wild-eyed innocence about that era, too. Today, gays are so jaded with the easy accessibility of porn and high-tech hookups.
I wish I had been out and about during the 70s.
- I was out in the 70's in Flyoverland, and that was no picnic. Still, if you lived in an urban area, I imagine it could be wonderful.
- [quote] From everything I've seen and heard, the 70s were the Golden Age for gays. It was the height of the Sexual Revolution and gays were leading the way. I've watched the Fire Island, Provincetown and NYC documentaries on Logo, and those times were clearly electric, carefree and FUN.
Oh, honey. That was only on the coasts. Everywhere else, it was hell to be gay.
(Of course, we still had tons of sex in flyover country, just not as fabulously.)
- Someday I hope Cheyenne Jackson gets a speaking role.
Was it my imagination or did he sport a hairy chest in the (very) brief glimpse we got of his chest? Was that real or a merkin?
- I believe that Thorson only topped Liberace. It seemed to be one of the reasons Lib became restless and frustrated with the semi-prudish ways while they were living together. I also believe that Thorson may have had sex with a woman at some point in his life.
However the fact, unknown to me until I went to the hyperlinked Vulture update page, that ST has stage 4 anal cancer(not colon as previously discussed) tells me that he most assuredly bottomed plenty in his post Lib years. When you are a drug addict without the bank to means to support the habit, a person of any sexual orientation will eventually do anything for their fix.
- In the 70's, we were wild and carefree in the proper gay ghettos and as soon as we walked into that magical disco. But no, the times were not freer - being out at work or acting like a couple in the supermarket was a huge step.
But that's exactly what made the ghettos, discos, and bathhouses more magical: this suddenly gained freedom to be yourself, which you had to stash away in your back pocket as soon as you went back to work or stepped off the fairy ferry.
Running into each other in the "real world" also always fun because the camaraderie was palpable - with gays and lesbians alike.
- [quote]That was only on the coasts.
And even then, not in the public eye. Always out of view of the general public. Especially if you were famous.
- I almost spewed when I read that Scott Thorson is currently in the Washoe Co. jail in Reno, Nevada.
I wonder if he has met Lt. Dangle or Off. Weigel?
- You can bet your Damon butt that if this movie was about a 17 year old girl they would have found a 22 year old actress to portray her and not an actress in her 40s like Jennifer Aniston, Uma Thurman or Denise Richards.
- Wasn't the blonde actor who played Liberace's new boytoy after Scott also in the movie Milk?
- R557, but he was only a child at 17 y.o.
- I remember seeing Liberace on one of the talk shows -- probably Merv Griffin -- going on about his love for his former fiancé Sonja Henie and how he could never seriously consider marrying any other woman.
- Re: 317 There is Scott's story, Lee's story and then there is the truth somewhere in between. This movie was based on Scott's book and if you have read recent and old interviews with Scott you will find that Scott contradicts himself at best. Yes, in the Larry King interview (you can find transcript online)Scott states he was never homosexual. Scott was later living for 10 years with a woman. Now Scott says he is bi-sexual. (it doesn't matter, but what does matter is Scott's credibility). Scott states in his book that Lee's people basically asked Scott what it would take to get him to leave. And also that Lee was willing to pay for Scott to go into rehab. However, it seems Scott was not thinking clearly through the drugs. There were guys before Scott and after Scott. All of them were probably given fabulous gifts and a lot of money to go away quietly. No one else filed a lawsuit. To me, if Scott really cared about Lee, he would have had an attorney quietly negotiate a deal with Lee's attorney and then take the money and go into rehab, get career training, etc. If Scott really loved Lee, he wouldn't have written a book with such personal details (that we still don't know is true or not, it is Scott's version and the lawsuit and the book just seemed to be a way for Scott to hurt Lee as much as he could). Although going up against a powerful entertainment figure that is willing to spend almost unlimited funds to defend themselves makes it seem stupid from the outset that Scott thought he stood to make any money in a lawsuit (Only lawyers make money the longer a lawsuit goes on.) In the Larry King interview Scott says he never even READ his book before it went to print, so he wasn't even sure what was in it, etc. Scott tries to blame all his problems on other people. He received almost $100,000 to use his book for this movie, yet he spent it all within two months, was recently busted for stolen credit cards, etc. The guy that helped get Scott the movie deal stated "Scott would sell his own mother..." "..an assortment of siblings and half-siblings want nothing to do with him, Mr. Mading say." per New York Times article by David Segal "The Boy Toy's Story" May 10, 2013 Scott could not have been completely innocent when he met Lee and knew there was going to be a trade off for living the high life for a short while.
- In my state the age of consent is sixteen, so if my seventeen-year-old kid wanted to date a forty-year-old, I might be skeeved out but there probably wouldn't be anything I could do to stop them from getting together. I would, however, advise him/her not to marry or move in with that person and certainly not to become financially dependent on him/her, give up on school or work, or stop socializing with people the same age. Thorson gave up a lot of freedom and potential for growth to be with Liberace. Even if he'd turned out to be a drug-addled crook he'd have done it on his own terms.
- busterkeys and anonymouswf - Please learn how to use paragraphs.
- R508 you are a fucking idiot. Look up the term false equivalency you shitstain. So what you are saying is that if Thorson had come from money and a stable background it wouldn't have been such a issue right?
- Dear anonymouswf,
For the love of god, please use paragraph breaks in your posts.
You may or may not have written something interesting about this movie. I'll never know because I am not wading through that one giant paragraph.
- I have experience with sociopathic con-artists and narcissistic scammers like Scott. (Liberace I can't comment on, perhaps he was a narcissist as well) He cannot be trusted to ever tell the truth about anything, he is probably devoid of empathy and has been on the grift his entire life. He knows how to manipulate people, obviously.
It appears everyone who knows him is on to him.
I am sorry to hear that he has colon cancer.
- R581- yes if Scott were super rich- not as big of a deal. Once the relationship ended, his wealthy parents could send off to college, rehab, etc. AND if he were wealthy, less likely to be soo impressed by Lee and /or so isolated spending all of his time w/Lee.
So yes being a foster kid does make him more gullible and easier prey for Lee.
- [R575] Boyd Holbrook has been popping up on screens a lot lately.
- [quote]Did people get this hysterical when Jerry Seinfeld who was almost 40, started dating Shoshanna Lowenstein who was 17 and still in high school at the time?
Yes of course, R502, people were hugely freaked out about Seinfeld and that high school girl. It was all over the tabloids, people called him a pedophile and a perv (which he was). Straight women were especially harsh.
People also freaked out over that Stodden girl and the middle aged perv she married. People freak out over those Mormon pervs marrying teen girls. People freak out over Woody Allen fucking his step-daughter and then marrying her. I could go on a lot longer with examples but that should suffice.
It may be more common for older men to be with younger women but just about everyone loathes middle aged guys dating teenaged girls.
- I was kind of freaked out about Seinfield, assumed he was a pervert but thought her parents would make him pay. I'm pretty sure he did.
- Gayest title ever? Good job.
- So Lib wanted to be versatile or engage in other activities that Scott wasn't interested in doing? It's surprising that they were together as long as they were, if Lib got that bored.
Tony Perkins was reported to be a bottom as well. And Mervy wasn't too interested in being fucked. He was into oral.
- [quote]I have experience with sociopathic con-artists and narcissistic scammers like Scott.
Can we not discuss Scott and Lee and the entire zeitgeist around which their relationship happened without turning this into a session "DL plays armchair psychiatrist?"
The Voice of the Night
- part 2 thread started
- [quote]Yes of course, [R502], people were hugely freaked out about Seinfeld and that high school girl. It was all over the tabloids, people called him a pedophile and a perv (which he was). Straight women were especially harsh.
Not really. Seinfeld remained a top tv show and other then a few jabs at him by Howard Stern and tabloid coverage, there was no mass "freak out" about it nor did it hurt his brand.
[quote]So yes being a foster kid does make him more gullible and easier prey for Lee.
Honey you can only play that card for so long. He wasn't a victim and the fact that you think he is says more about your gullibility.
[quote]People also freaked out over that Stodden girl and the middle aged perv she married. People freak out over those Mormon pervs marrying teen girls. People freak out over Woody Allen fucking his step-daughter and then marrying her. I could go on a lot longer with examples but that should suffice
Who are these "people" that are freaking out? Other than a few tabloid stories, most people have never heard of Courtney Stodden or the guy she married. Allen I will give you, but the rest, no just, no.
Same goes for Steven Tyler, Ted Nugent, and just about every 70's rocker who hit it with underage groupies.
- I think the freak out over Woody Allen had more to do with the fact that Soon-Yi was his adopted daughter, not that she was a young girl.
- In the book, the maid was hysterical, coming in at night and fussing over Liberace, totally ignoring Scott, tucking the boss in, recommending food he should eat, etc. He was much more of a detailed character.
Here's a picture of the real plastic surgeon, Jack Startz, and Rob Lowe side-by-side.
- I'm sure most of the "Hollywood Drs" back then were nothing more than drug peddlers. Of course they still are, but it was much more blatant back then.
- r593 common-law-adopted-step-daughter, or something like that.
- MD is serving Judith Light realness in the 6th pic.
- I don't think people are or ever were freaking out over the Lee/Scott age difference either. Older Sugar Daddy with young buck was an even more common occurrence back in the day when very little heterocentric domesticity was allowed or known of in the gay world.
I think all the comparisons to Seinfeld and Allen are moot. The same level of outrage (i.e. not too much or not enough to destroy anyone's career) registered in every case.
- Rob Lowe looks like Christine Baranski in the film.
- Last post!