Is it the beginning of the end for England and the United Kingdom
"The sun never sets on the English empire"
This was true during England's heyday. Now England is nothing. It used to be one of the least important countries in Europe.
Conditions and unemployment get worse and worse daily. Do you think it's the beginning of the end for that country.
Where did she go wrong? She was so powerful and then slowly, she lost it all.
OP, you'll be saying that about the US very shortly...
It's the whole world.
[quote]Where did she go wrong?
1) Teaching cultural relativism to "her" people.
2) Poisoning the society by importing backward cultures that breed like rats.
How is it any worse in the UK than it is in the US?
Uhhh, r1, actually the US has dodged the bullet that the Eurozone took.
r3 is where she went wrong.
Yep, r3 pretty much covers it.
England thrived when she exploited all her colonies.
Then the colonies figured out how to suck her dry.
Fortunately that doesn't matter because Russian mobsters and oil Barrons still think she's the ultimate catch and will continue to throw money her way for some time to come.
The US better start tarting herself up for her own upcoming concubine phase in history.
Pay no attention. It's the monthly anti-UK thread.
Soon up -- the monthly anti-Canada thread
And -- the weekly pro-anti-NYC thread
The term is British. The Kingdom of England ceased to exist in the early 18th century. The full name of the country is The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, usually shortened to "The United Kingdom" or "The UK". "Great Britain" or "England" can be used synecdochally, but there was never truly an "English Empire"; it was the British Empire where the sun never set.
Similarly, referring to all UK citizens as "English" is incorrect. England is one of four constituent countries in the UK, the others being Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. It is incorrect to refer to the people native to the other three countries as "English"; as a whole the citizens of the United Kingdom should be referred to as "British".
Blair's unlimited-immigration policies.
There you have it
AYB, what say you?
[quote] there was never truly an "English Empire"
We beg to differ.
It's really only the past few decades they've insisted on being called "the UK." In the 40s, 50s, 60s and 7-s, they were England, Britain or Great Britain. Never the UK.
Scotland and Wales were Scotland and Wales, not the UK.
Wrong R19 it has been used since the late nineteenth century.
Not by ordinary people, R19. I've been alive for a long time.
They never should have phased out rum, sodomy and the lash.
Me too R21 - retired last year
"2) Poisoning the society by importing backward cultures that breed like rats."
They are here because you were "there".
No, r24, you dunce. They are "here" because of a CHOSEN immigration policy.
R24 if England hadn't been there they'd still be roaming the desert and fucking camels.
Sweden is also not doing terribly well.
Apparently free education, free healthcare and free housing is not enough to keep the "immigrant youths" from burning cars and businesses in Stockholm.
R24 and using the left hands to wipe shit away from their arses
Things will be better when they have Shia law.
Shia La Boof?
And your point is, r26?
It's THEIR desert to roam, asshole.
It's not yours, Until you realize that and get out they have every right to kill you and your loved ones.
Why is it "their" desert, r31? Presumably you're aware that world history is full of one conquest after another. That's how various groups have occupied land from the beginning of time. What makes you pick a magical point in time to declare that any particular place belongs to people with a specific DNA?
[quote]It's really only the past few decades they've insisted on being called "the UK." In the 40s, 50s, 60s and 7-s, they were England, Britain or Great Britain. Never the UK. Scotland and Wales were Scotland and Wales, not the UK.
Nope, the opposite. It was more "Britain" before but each constituent nation has got their identity back stronger than ever, thanks to devolution. And you can thank Thatcher for leading to that. It was more united before like in the 50s, but things started to change recently.
But if what you're saying is that Britain ultimately means England then of course. I used to before, but I don't mind if Americans say "England" all the time as it's more specific and what they mean. Some who do know it's Britain make a point of it to separate themselves from the rest, which is also cool.
I went to the bank today to buy GBP with US dollars... this financial transaction served as a clear reminder of which country is strongest at the present.
When GBP is on par with the dollar, then that's when the game will be over. But I don't see that happening in my lifetime, because in all of my 40+ years, the GBP has always trumped the dollar, much to the American tourist's chagrin.
not by a long shot
I'm sure R31 thinks that during the Ottoman invasions it was only fair that they be allowed to take over what they wanted in the interest of spreading Islam, R32.
It's the beginning of the end for all the world. First will come Britain (due to overpopulation, it'll be soon), then Europe, then the rest. And, the spreading of Islam is the biggest problem facing the world today.
Fine, r32, England belongs to them now and they are free to conquer her.
GBP £1.00 = USD $1.05 in the 1985, r34. Parity, or close to it, can happen again. Good for American tourists, bad for American exports.
Too many "Third World" people. But that's also true of the U.S. Overbreeding, while the rest of the world stands by, helpless.
The U.S. will need more and more space, (because of the invasion). This means that it'll probably steal more land from the Native Americans. And in order to do that, it must make NAs "invisible" in modern society so that its citizens won't care.
My history professor told me..
r37, England belongs to whoever will defend it. The sad thing is you want it to belong to the backward fundies.
[quote] as a whole the citizens of the United Kingdom should be referred to as "British"
Even Northern Ireland? I thought "British" referred to Great Britain only.
Also, what does Rula Lenska think of all this?
Yes, r34, the U.S. Gov doesn't care if tourists stay home- they want to sell, sell, SELL
Sell to everyone but Americans, that is.
r41 British is the nationality for those in Northern Ireland as well (some prefer being called Irish). Britain is the island, often called GB and NI. Then there's the British Isles.
As an English Londoner I refuse to call myself British, which includes the Scots. Let the Scots be independent, and let them be self sufficient and may Hadrians wall be built up a few more hundred feet so the English never have to look upon another scot.
r45, we see that you decided to post a diatribe, but could you give us reasons?
[quote]Now England is nothing.
Yes, R38, obviously picking that historic low for the US/UK exchange rate, when the rate is (and has been for many years) in the £1 = $1.50 range, makes your point so well.
OP has the right thread title but is 34 years too late. Like Reagan was for you, Thatcher was the beginning of the end of what it means to be 'British'. The unlimited immigration only happened because of the market forces she put in in the first place.
Blair had a chance to undo the worst of the damage but was in many ways worse than Major because his govt combined neoliberal bullshit with increased public sector spending. Just a bubble on top of a bubble.
The real thing that is destroying Britain is not immigration but rampant selfishness, fear and greed.
And I'm sorry to say it, but we picked up those habits from the USA. Like I have said before, we have a knack of copying and importing the worst things about America whilst at the same time ignoring the good ones.
Personally I wish we'd stop pretending we were a world power; fighting bullshit wars for dishonest reasons at the expense of our own people when the reality is in world terms we're just another Denmark these days.
It's embarrassing. The UK has got very dumb in the last 15 years. And it's getting worse.
If you don't believe me, look at the rampant CCTV, the culture of deference and the attendant anti-intellectualism that is the prevalent flavour of the day.
I weep for the lost England, and don't blame the Scots for wanting no more to do with this bloody shambles we laughably call the United Kingdom.
OP = Queen MARY!
Dead @ a Londoner hating other nationalities. r45 how about you build a wall around your own house to keep you away from all the nasty foreign people and help contain all the nutty bigoted paranoid ideas in your backwoods Little Englander head. Fucking freak.
r45 does sound a little odd, but r51 you seem closer to the label "fucking freak" than he does.
Where's AYB? I haven't seem him post for days.
R51 Actually I like pretty much the rest of the world, it's just the leeching Scots that I hate. :-)
Well that's nice since you live in London and more is spent there than anywhere else r54. Your misanthrope outlook which came across as irrationally racist sounds like it could be appealing.
OP, if you had even a glancing-blow knowledge of history and the realities of the U.K., you would stab yourself in the tongue with an eel fork out of embarrassment for your inane post.
But since you lack any knowledge - or sense, for that matter - your silly tongue is safe for its next Taco Bell delight.
(R45)just sounds like half the men in England. They all love to diss the Scottish, the Welsh or people from Liverpool (Scousers) Sometimes the Irish too, but that's a touchier subject.
It's a form of humor to them, like East Coast people making fun of West Coast people in the US or Northerners making fun of Southerners.
Not to mention that most English men have a frustrated rage bubbling just under the mannered surface and a innate arrogance to which they won't ever cop.
OP, England lost its empire and world power status post WWII.
In both England and the US, it's not so much a question of immigration as it is governments who really could give a flying fuck about their constituents and their economic realities.
And even if they do give a flying fuck, they are so bullied and controlled by big corporations that they are powerless to do anything to really create the kind of job opportunities at sustainable wages that their citizens desperately need.
And meanwhile, they let greed rule and the cost of living skyrocket. And since most of them have been living at least partially under an Ayn Rand inspired delusional cloud since the 80's, they still keep waiting for private interests to boost public interests when they've clearly consistently done the opposite.
So it's easier to throw benefits at people out of guilt and to keep them quiet. Then they can turn around and bitch about the lazy slobs who form the smokescreen.
What is this thread about?
There was no English Empire, there was the British Empire. Britain has declined as a global power since the final end of the British Empire after the Second World War, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. One island doesn't have to run half the world.
Conditions and unemployment aren't getting worse everyday. There is a debt problem that needs to be resolved but, like the US and EU, despite all our fucking moaning, we are the wealthiest, most privileged regions in the world.
"As an English Londoner I refuse to call myself British"
Well, r45, that means you have no citizenship and are a stateless person because there is no such thing as English citizenship and no country that is a member of the UN that is called England.
"I weep for the lost England"
What lost England is this?
R58 I love the Welsh, the rest of England and the Irish (both North and South). I like the rest of the world, my Nigerian partner and any living being that may live on all the planets that exist in our solar system. I do, however, loathe the Scots and their parasitic leeching off the hardworking rest of the UK.
Yes let them have their own independence, and let them not expect any financial help from the rest of the UK.
In other words, you don't like a certain loud faction of the Scottish political population (R62)
England's decline began with the full-hearted embrace of Free Trade. While her investment was diverted to build the USA and Germany, the returns were not worth the cost as defaults were much more typical than expected. Then Fully one third of British foreign investment was lost during World War I.She also allowed the pound sterling to be used as the world's reserve currency, putting her in a perpetual trade deficit, which she only climbed out of in 1944 by foisting that role on the USA. More recently, she has declined by embracing corrupt privatization, dominance of the financial sector, and increasing inequality.
What is "the culture of deference," ayb?
The guy who is fed up with the Scots sounds like some Canadians when they are talking about Quebecois/Quebec separatism.
You can talk about England, Britain, Scotland etc, but the people in power could not care less - that is why they are all for more immigration, and immigration from nations that do not share the same values, as much as possible. The people in charge have no interest in the citizens of their own nation, do not care about the history, culture or social democratic gains that have been made. They want the population to be divided because it will bring down the country and they will be unable to fight the (the 1%) because they will be too busy fighting each other. Or thinking about fighting each other.
[quote]I do, however, loathe the Scots and their parasitic leeching off the hardworking rest of the UK.
Notice how you said AND. I was about to say there must be another reason but you've just given yourself away. So basically you're using this to justify your racism. And it's supposed to be the Scots with the chip on their shoulder.
[quote]Yes let them have their own independence
Spoiler: that's not gonna happen. Hope you're tuned in to the TV next year eagerly awaiting the results! Oh well, you'll have just another 300 years to wait.
R69 Shame you can't stand on your own two feet. Always second class citizens stealing off your superiors. How proud you must be of yourselves.
Funny how every country that Britain "ran", is doing so much better than all their surrounding countries.
R70 needs meds and for his Nigerian partner to slap him around until he takes them.
R71 yeah, Pakistan is doing great!
R72 Disgraceful to condone physical abuse.
R45 R62... It's a pity you don't have any understanding of simple math, otherwise you would know that Scotland is a net contributor to the UK economy and if they leave the UK England will be fucked. Why do you think the Westminster government are so desperate to hold on to them? Scotland has paid more into the UK than they ever got out of it. Go and learn some basic facts first before spouting your vicious little Englander nonsense outside of a UKIP rally.
In general, yes R72
In this case, probably not.
That's what I was thinking too R67. At least the Scots can claim they were at one time a separate country.
R75 Ha ha ha ha ha. Can't breathe.... Ha ha ha. I needed that laugh Scotty. Thanks!
Have any members of Norsefire provided their input yet?
I think that somehow OP's message arrived here from the past, like around WW 2. It's kind of like the hipster who was photographed at the opening of a bridge 65 years ago.
As a Scot I refuse to call myself British, which includes the English. Let us Scots be independent, and let us continue to be self sufficient and may Hadrians wall be built up a few more hundred feet so Scotland never has to look upon another pretentious mincing English Twat.
Scotland "contributions" to Westminster far outweigh any return.
Really r81? How many Scots have been on the dole...have pensions and NHS? Somehow I think the national economic contribution far outweighs what they have received.l.
R81 As the Londoner that you copied your post from because you haven't the intelligence to think up an original one of your own, good for you! You won't be missed.
[quote] "The sun never sets on the English empire". This was true during England's heyday. Now England is nothing.
That simply isn't true. It's the Muslim mecca of Europe
Fuck you fags-England has me!
[quote]The people in charge have no interest in the citizens of their own nation.
That's because they don't believe in nations or national boundaries. And I'm pretty sure when they look at ordinary people they see us all as takers.
Mitt Romney does, R87
[quote]Now England is nothing.
Apart from her world-class cultural scene, great universities, literary and scientific history, National Health Service, and last year's Olympics. Among other absences.
Despite the greed and vulgarity Thatcher and Murdoch established, there is still an England worth living in.
Ken Loach's brilliant recent documentary "The Spirit of '45" itemises the post-war degradation wrought by Thatcher and Murdoch. Both in itself and in its featured speakers the film shows that all is far from lost. (It was so excellent 'The Daily Mail' had to trash it: way too many raw nerves touched.)
The fact that so much reaction to Thatcher's death was strongly irreverent underlines the disgust at the culture she created.
Her death coincides with the collapse through criminality of Murdoch's print empire. The extent of his corruption will be highlighted in the courts.
The reasonable intelligent robust England uncontaminated by the crass extremes of the last thirty years is still here, and will cope with new extremes too.
I just moved to London temporarily and one thing I've noticed is some people abusing the generous social programs. For one thing, social housing is a bit unfair. I know this family who was able to get a nice subsidised social housing in a nice area (Fulham) due to their (undeclared) income and savings, while thousands of professionals with decent careers can't even jump into the property ladder because they don't qualify for social housing and housing in London is expensive. On top of that, this family in Fulham is generating additional income by turning their house into a lodge with several renters without the borough's consent. Since it seemed unfair and is illegal, I notified the borough but still no action (since they probably deal with a lot of these reports). And it turns out, this is not the only family that do this. There are lots that abuse this system, all the while thousands of people who don't qualify for social housing cannot afford their own place.
R84 I'm guessing you don't realise that you're whining about the part of the UK that has the oil, gas, water & international exports?
Best just to keep quiet about your racism if I were you. Your ignorance is embarrassing to other English people with an education.
I suppose I'd better point out I'm from Suffolk, before being called' Scotty'. Idiot.
As an American, I can never understand how Scotland and Wales can both be considered "countries" while at the same time being integral parts of the same nation?
We'll be doing a lot better once we're out of the Eurozone and have retrieved our balls from Merkel's poorly manicured clutches.
Why are you referring to Britain as "we" and "our", r93, when you're not British? Britain's not in the eurozone and no Briton would make such a howling mistake.
R92 - the United Kingdom isn't one country, it is made up of 4 countries; England, Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales. These are each individual countries. They were countries before joining the UK and would still be countries if they left the UK. Scotland has a separate legal and education system, for instance.
United Kingdom is the 4 combined countries.
Great Britain is the name of the largest island in the British Isles. AKA mainland Britain, it comprises of Scotland, England and Wales. Northern Ireland is the northern part of the next-largest island in the British Isles, Ireland. The southern part of Ireland is a separate country.
The British Isles is the archipelago of over 6000 islands, large and small, that is the location of both Ireland and The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.
England has been around a very long time, been thru a lot and still survives. The same thing can not be said about the USA.
The USA will fall first and harder.
The USA is made up of bits and pieces of other countries. England is a source country and the one who invented the world accepted standard human language.
When Scotland leaves can Wales be far behind?
The UK is breaking up because of racism. The EU has said, when Scotland becomes independent, it will have to reapply for EU membership, but England wouldn't have to. It could just assume the UK membership. So did the UN.
But when Yugoslavia broke up it made Serbia reapply and when Czechoslovakia broke up they made Czechia and Slovakland reapply too.