- What about 'selfies' of his junk? Any of those photos recovered?
- You mean Saint Trayvon really isn't one?
- What crap. He wasn't carrying a gun or a plant when he was murdered.
- Doesn't matter. He was unarmed the night he was killed. He had gone to the convenience store like he said he was and had iced tea and skittles on his person. No gun, no knife, no pot, no alcohol and he wasn't trespassing or robbing or threatening anyone when George Zimmerman hunted him down and shot him to death.
- Hopefully there will be a sex tape offered up into evidence too.
- How vile. Him being a teenage pot hot and trying to be wannabe gangsta is not responsible for his death. When Zimmerman shot him down that kid had skittles and Arizona iced tea on him. Zimmerman followed him after told to let him be until Police arrived.
This kid was not a Saint. But this could have been avoided.
- Zimmerman was told not to follow Trayvon, he followed him and shot him. Of course he's going to get away with it, but Trayvon's history doesn't have anything to do with the actual incident.
- He was a thug acting thuggish. All he had to do was stop when asked but no, he had to act macho and assholish. St. Trayvon my ass.
- R8, at least he wasn't a murderer like your boy Zimmerman.
- A teenager was known to have used pot? I find that astonishing!
- "All he had to do was stop when asked"
By a cop, sure, but not a tin-badged wannabe neighborhood watch turd.
- "irrelevant red herrings (sic)"
But the lawyer's right. Zimmerman's an asshole who deserves to be punished.
- hey, r8, should the people demand the contents of the cell phone owned by the gay man shot in the face? Let's have a murder trial of that piece of shit murderer that allows him to attack the character of the dead gay man.
I mean, you are posting the character of the murdered is relevant to a defense. Right?
- [quote]When Zimmerman shot him down that kid had skittles and Arizona iced tea on him.
The Arizona iced tea was made in New York. Why hasn't that been brought into the case?
- The items could possibly be used as evidence to support testimonial evidence as to who the first aggressor was. But it depends on Fl's rules of evidence as to what's allowed in and for what purposes and how much of a showing you have to make.
I don't think the weed use could be used but maybe drug selling could if they could make that argument. Though if the weed use was chronic it might be able to be used to show that Trayvon might have acted carelessly. I think it would be a harder argument to make than possessing guns. Possession of a gun could be used to show evidence of a violent character or disposition.
The rules of evidence are looser in allowing evidence against victims and witnesses than they are about allowing in evidence about a defendant.
- [quote] I mean, you are posting the character of the murdered is relevant to a defense. Right?
Yes. It can be highly relevant. Depends on the character trait and some other factors.
- r4 Thank you.
- if im a juror, i will totally disregard them.
its all about those few minutes when he got shot.
- After Percy Foreman represented Candace Mossler and won her an acquittal in the murder of her husband, he was a guest on the Dick Cavett Show. Cavett asked him how he had managed to win what had looked like an open and shut case. Foreman replied, you prove the bastard had it coming.
- Why bother with the trial? Everyone has made up their mind already. We could just phone in guilty or not guilty votes, like of American Idol. The hell with the facts.
- "No gun, no knife, no pot, no alcohol and he wasn't trespassing or robbing or threatening anyone when George Zimmerman hunted him down and shot him to death."
You must be one of the loonies who believe this scenario: Zimmerman sees an African-American tyke skipping along, skittles and sweet drink in hand. He thinks: I must kill him. He then follows the tiny lad like a shadow until he can restrain his animalistic urge no longer. He blows the defenseless angelic child away and laughs manically as the martyred innocent breathes his last.
Of course that's pure insanity, but it's what Trayvon Martin's groupies want to think happened. It's a fantasy.
- "Of course that's pure insanity, but it's what Trayvon Martin's groupies want to think happened. It's a fantasy."
No, the only "fantasy" is the one being spun by Zimmerman fanatics. His supporters are insane freeper rednecks so you must be one of them.
- R22, I think Zimmerman saw a black kid and decided the guy was out to rape, murder or steal. His paranoia kicked into overdrive, along with his desire to be a hero. He killed the kid because he is a paranoid bigot.
He knew the cops were on their way and there was no reason to murder the kid, but he did it anyway. He probably figured he would be praised for his good work.
- I think Trayvon prob. Slipped out to smoke a little weed and then Zimmy started stalking him and Trayvon ran. Zimmy attacked him. If Trayvon had a gun, stand your ground would've been in his favor. I hope their blaming the victim backfires.
- Kids in the hood mix the skittles with the iced tea and get high off of it, do do.
- Yeah, what's that skittles and iced tea mixture thing about? I heard something about that months ago.
- Who cares?
Zimmerman will be found guilty.
We'll all move on.
- R3 he could have had the picture of the gun up on his phone and because he was a druggy cuz he had the picture of the pot plants up on his phone right before he pulled up the gun pic it would make sense to shoot him cuz he could have done something with that gun pic and hurt or killed someone
- What about the rich drunk white guy who told those black kids to turn down their music, was told to go fuck himself.and then sprayed their car with gunfire,killing one? How come nobody cares.about that?
- R30, where's the thread you started about that?
- I love you R29
- A pot smoker? You just KNOW he was violent thug!
- OMG!!!!! He smoked POT???!!!
Well then, he was clearly a monster
- I wasn't aware that merely being a gun owner means it's reasonable to be attacked and shot to death while unarmed.
- But he wasn't a LEGAL gun owner, R35! And he was BLACK!
- R35, he was a gun [bold]picture[/bold] owner, not a gun owner.
This is the first I've heard that having a photo of a gun means you're involved in criminal activity.
R29 is right. He could have used that gun photo to do almost anything. Good thing our hero George stepped in to save the day.
Same for pot. If you have pics of pot, you're bound to be at least a heroin addict.
- A thug on his way to a life in a really big house. The big house. So sad it got cut short.
- [quote]A thug on his way to a life in a really big house. The big house. So sad it got cut short.
You have a really miserable life, don't you?
You reek of unhappiness.
And I pity you.
- R38, that choice should have been left to Trayvon Martin, not George Zimmerman.
- R39. Save it
R40. Would you have the same outrage if, three months later, Trayvon got mowed down in a drive by over drug money? Nope.
- r39 is right. Of course the content of his character is going to matter in court.
- Zimmerman chased down a teenager and killed him.
- The focus of the trial will be Zimmerman's self-defense claim. Zimmerman needs to show that Martin attacked him in response to being followed, and the attack made Zimmerman fear for his life. To do this, Zimmerman needs to show that attacking someone is consistent with Martin's character. Therefore evidence of Martin being a thug is relevant to Zimmerman's defense.
- "Poseur who smokes weed and maybe has access to a gun" doesn't = "thug"
Seriously, for anyone with a few functioning brain cells this case isn't hard.
- I wish r8,r16,et al,would apply that same overbought 'analysis' of the case to another teenager-Tsarnaev I think his name is-a white 'immigrant' who went to school on a scholarship and did not have the hindrance of dark skin to hold him back-yet he bombed the Boston Marathon, murdered a few people and held the entire state of Boston on lockdown! Where is your analysis of his 'thuggery'? Where is your debate of how media is using pictures of him smiling and happy,like you accused the media of doing with Trayvon? Is Tsarnaev an over six foot ogre like you and the other crazies tried to paint Trayvon, to justify your bizarre racist made up fantasies that an unarmed teen deserved what he got? Did the little unarmed eight year old boy that the Tsarnaev brothers murdered deserve what he got,too? He was minding his business just like Trayvon,cheering on his mother-or maybe he was an accomplice and caused his own demise-you never can tell with eight year olds!
You are are sick sociopath who keeps posting your rediculous lies about what went down that night when Zimmerman murdered Trayvon-you even try to speak as if you know Trayvon's mindset that night! What do you gain from trying to paint this dead kid as some kind of thug looking for trouble-when in fact it was the other way around-Zimmerman has all the growing list of mugshots and he was the one breaking the law. I could go on but you can't change the mind racists-just the color of Trayvon's skin is enough to find him the agressor, despite the FACTS that Zimmerman had the gun and STARTED the confrontation.
- Sorry but it shows he is not the saint he is protrayed to be. That combined with the photos clearly showing injuries to Zimmerman, this is not an open and shut case. Just because Zimmerman was told not to follow him doesn't mean it wasn't self defense. Jury is still out for me.
- Trayvon was the one standing his ground. What is a person supposed to do when a stranger with a gun tracks you down in the dark? Defend yourself, that's what.
Zimmerman is a stalker and a killer.
- I feel bad for Zimmerman. They'll never release the details of what really happened.
- Most people who fear for their life do not go out of their way to follow the person who is imposing that fear on them.
I'd still like to know what Zimmerman meant by saying "they always get away with it" to the police. Who is "They"?
- Better check your phone pics people.
Or put that phone on vibrate!
- HuffPo has a gallery of newspaper regarding this case over the past year at link.
"New Trayvon Martin Evidence Features Incriminating Photos, Texts From Teen"
ORLANDO, Fla. — Data released Thursday by the defense from slain Florida teenager Trayvon Martin's cellphone includes texts with a friend about fighting, smoking pot and being forced to move out of his mother's house because of trouble at school, as well as photos of a gun and what looks to be a potted marijuana plant.
A hearing next week will decide if the information can be used at the trial for George Zimmerman, who is charged with fatally shooting the unarmed 17-year-old last year during a confrontation at a gated community in Sanford. Prosecutors want the negative evidence omitted, but Zimmerman's defense attorney said if they try to portray his client as the antagonist and Martin as the victim, he wants to show the jury that Martin has talked about fighting before.
"If they had suggested that Trayvon is nonviolent and that George is the aggressor, I think that makes evidence of the fighting he has been involved with in the past relevant," said Mark O'Mara.
Zimmerman, 29, has pleaded not guilty to second-degree murder, claiming self-defense and his trial starts next month. O'Mara also filed a motion Thursday asking for a delay in the start of the trial so the defense team can talk at length with an expert witness for the prosecution.
The photos released by Zimmerman's defense team also show Martin blowing smoke and extending his middle finger to the camera.
In the text messages, Martin tells a friend that his mother has told him he needs to move in with his father since he was caught skipping school. He also talks with a friend about smoking "weed."
In another section, he describes being in a fight where his opponent got more hits than he did in the first round.
Prosecutors have filed a motion asking Circuit Judge Debra Nelson to prevent the photos, texts and other personal information from being used at the trial. The hearing is set for next Tuesday when the judge also will consider the motion to delay the trial.
Attorneys for Martin's parents said in a statement that the photos and texts were irrelevant to the trial and could pollute the jury pool.
"Is the defense trying to prove Trayvon deserved to be killed by George Zimmerman because (of) the way he looked?" they said. "If so, this stereotypical and closed-minded thinking is the same mindset that caused George Zimmerman to get out of his car and pursue Trayvon, an unarmed kid who he didn't know."
As for the delay, O'Mara said he needed more time to review the qualifications of a prosecution witness with an expertise in speech identification. O'Mara said prosecutors only made him aware of the expert a short time ago. The expert could be used to testify whose voices were on 911 calls that captured the fatal fight between Zimmerman and Martin.
O'Mara said in an interview that he needed another month or two to prepare.
O'Mara also said in the interview that he is going to ask a judge to sequester not only the jury but the jury pool in the upcoming trial. That may involve sequestering 500 potential jurors in order to find six people who can serve on the jury, O'Mara said.
- [quote]I'd still like to know what Zimmerman meant by saying "they always get away with it" to the police. Who is "They"?
And what is "it" that "They" always get away with?
- Trayvon Martin was probably no saint, but Zimmerman had no idea about the photos that were on his phone so I don't see the relevance to what happened that night.
- Apparently "They" - black youth - get away with "it" - walking down the street with Skittles and a cold drink - ALL THE TIME!!!
- R41 - "if" isn't a crime.
If we are talking "if" - I'm sure Trayvon Martin would have loved to have those three months before he was theoretically slain in a drive-by shooting over drug money (WTF??)
But he didn't. He was shot dead by a nut who objected to a young black man walking down his street...
A nut, btw, who had two passports for some reason, and only surrendered one to the police?
- one less "gangsta".
- Lol R55.
- Brad Pitt has admitted that he was a total pot head (and other drugs) in a recent magazine artical (Esquire, I think) in the 90's. Of course this was already known. Willie Nelson is the joke of Hollywood because of his excessive pot smoking. That guy name Eric on Fox Five brags about how skilled his son is at shooting a gun. He taught him and has bought him a gun. The guy who running for mayor in New York (Weiner) was caught texting nude pictures of his genitals. What in the world does Zimmerman and his lawyer suggest should be done to them?
- See what this shows about America?
White people + guns=True American Patriot
Black people + pictures of guns on their phones=Un-American Criminals
Furthermore, if white redneck racists smoked a little more HARMLESS weed, there would be less hatred in the world and America would be a better place.
- You will find in the trial that it was Arizona Iced Tea BRAND - but the drink itself was Watermelon. Watermelon and Skittles, when combined with cough syrup make "Purple Drank", AKA "Sizzurp". Not that it matters really what his ultimate intention was for those ingredients. It's just that the Skittles and Iced TEA is not correct. It wasn't TEA.
- "You will find in the trial that it was Arizona Iced Tea BRAND - but the drink itself was Watermelon. Watermelon and Skittles, when combined with cough syrup make "Purple Drank", AKA "Sizzurp". Not that it matters really what his ultimate intention was for those ingredients. It's just that the Skittles and Iced TEA is not correct. It wasn't TEA."
THANK YOU for helping to explain this. I am not being sarcastic. People make wrong assumptions without knowing the facts.
- So true R60!!!
- Sizzurp aka Purple Drank explained in Wikipedia.
- r59 but Brad is white and has the complextion for the protection. Pot use is only looked upon as funny and cool when you're white. When you are a 17 black male walking at night with skittles and a soft drink,while talking to your girlfriend on your cell phone it's a crime.
Both Travon's parents were in his life so there goes that theory that he was a hardened criminal who had no role models. His mentione his mom being upset that he got suspended from school. When he was murdered he was visiting his father.
George Zimmerman should have let law enforcement handle it. Of course not. The call to 911 was probably a cover or he thought in his warped cold mind. He shot Trayvon done for no reason. With a gun he owned.
George Zimmerman has a criminal record. Trayvon didn't own a gun or have one in his possesion when murdered.
Zimmerman was wrong no matter how you look at it. He took this child's life away. Trayvon wasn't selling drugs in his neighborhood or being a menance. He was minding his own damn business when this man gunned him down.
How anyone can sit up here and try to rationalize why Zimmerman did what he did is insane. I could see if Trayvon was causing trouble or hurting someone. But by George Zimmerman's on admission he just saw Trayvon walking and started following him and then got out of his vehicle and shot him.
I don't blame Trayvon for defending himself. Though I wish he had called home and told his father.
His weed usage and a pic of a gun is not what's at important here.
George's defense attorney won't be able to prove Trayvon was gangsta or some hardened thugh. By all accounts he was a typical teenager and feeling himself probably.
- Again, if the victim was white, we wouldn't be hearing any of this crap.
- Dzhokhar Tsarneav big pot smoker -- "Hey, he's a normal American college kid, they all party. How could such a typical American kid be a bad guy?"
Trayvon Martin, pot smoker -- "Why that dirty, violent, piece of shit n---!"
- Yes, R67, all of America is rushing to defend the Boston Marathon Bomber.
- We wouldn't because George Zimmerman wouldn't have killed him because he was white teen.
Posters wouldn't be him calling this white teen a thug who was on his way to mix up syrup.
- This move reeks of desperation. If this is the best his defense team can do, Georgie boy is going to do time.
- I don't care if this guy was thug 4 life - Zimmerman is still guilty as hell of gunning down a defenseless human being.
- I love how R64 convicts someone based on the candy and soft drinks they like.
And convicts them of WHAT? Underaged drinking? This makes him a THUG and worthy if death?
Some sick fucks post here.
- A bunch of freeper trolls post here, R72. They love to stir up this crap.
- That's the resident racist troll, R72.
- TY R72 Black kids can't eat skittles and Arizona Tea now because they are using it for drug use.
- r46, you're a race-obsessed loon. You weren't there that night. Stop making pronouncements you know nothing about.
- The racism in this case is so nauseating. The mad rush to slur this dead teenager with anything that might stick just makes me sick.
"He liked guns!" So does the NRA, the GOP and practically every white, conservative male I know.
"He did drugs!" So do 80% of teenagers. The worst drug abusers I've known are all white and affluent. Smoking pot was like breathing to them, and kiddie stuff compared to the white shit they smoked, snorted and injected. None of them was ever stalked through a neighborhood and shot in cold blood, though. All of them are "upstanding citizens" today and I'd bet dollars to donuts they vote straight GOP and think Trayvon Martin was a "thug".
"He was a THUG!" Based on what? Candy and soda? Possible underaged drinking? Some stupid poses he snapped with his cell phone? He was a TEENAGER. Acting out is what they do. A million "wiggers" do all the same things Trayvon did and they grow up fine and dandy. A black kid does those same things though and he gets shot, killed and viciously maligned after death.
Every "accusation" is something white, suburban kids get away with daily.
- Most of the datalounge hysterics love to push the original media narrative.
- R78 The "the original media narrative"? You mean like how Zimmerman stalked and chased Trayvon down, initiated a confrontation and then shot him?
- Talk about trying to prejudice the jury.
- i love r77. skipping school and smoking pot is not an offense punishable by death, which is what the defense is pretty much trying to imply....
- If skipping school and smoking pot is not an offense punishable by death, then we need to start lining the Palin kids up against a wall.
- r79, the immediate media narrative was to flood everyone's TV with the most sweet innocent pic of TWELVE year old Martin they could find, while showing a comparatively threatening looking Zimmerman.
- r57 (and everyone else on Zimmerman's dick), just curious--are you gay by any chance? Because if you are, Zimmerman and his redneck supporters hate you.
I guarantee Zimmerman's let the f-word fly numerous times.
- r84 is typical of the DL race-obsessed loons. You know nothing about Zimmerman's feelings about gays.
- [quote]Again, if the victim was white, we wouldn't be hearing any of this crap.
There wouldn't have been a white victim because Zimmerman wouldn't have deemed him "suspicious".
- If George Zimmerman was indeed "threatened" why did he follow Trayvon after the 911 Operator clearly told him to wait until the police arrived?
I am not sure what Trayvon was supposed to do when a man starts following him through the streets with a gun. Obviously if Zimmerman had physical contact with him, Trayvon is going to attempt to defend himself against his attacker.
The fact that Zimmerman's attorneys are releasing all of this information prior to jury selection is a way for them to shape the opinions of the potential pool.
All of this being said, the media should also release the most recent pictures of Trayvon, not the photos that were taken several years prior to the attack which paint him as a sweet innocent boy.
Transparency on all sides would be much appreciated. Unfortunately this is the exception not the rule these days.
Zimmerman should go to prison for murder but this case should not be tried in the media prior to trial.
- Sorry R83. If that is all you got from the coverage of this story then you are beyond hope. But please, keep bringing up that issue. It only calls attention to how weak Zimmerman's defenders really are.
- It's pretty obvious that Zimmerman is guilty of murder, he is a crazed loon.
- r88, you're admitting that that's exactly what the media did with those photos -- while pretending not to admit it, and taking a pissy little unsubstantiated slam at Zimmerman.
But of course your ire isn't really directed at Zimmerman, is it? It's toward his "defenders." Zimmerman is of the wrong race.
- R90 can you post that again, this time in English? Seriously, that was grade A word salad.
- The eye witnesses, the ear witnesses - even the kid's own parents saying "that's not my son" on the 911 tape ( until after meeting with atty.s and the Right Reverends Al and Jesse when they changed their opinion on the call. ) - it all points to a physical altercation. The kid was on top of the guy beating his head on the concrete. He was not "gunned down" as if he were just minding his own business walking down the street, shot drive by style as some of you seem to think. Some of the wild ass speculations on this board are incredible. They have zero relationship to the evidence as we know it. Don't be racist, but for god's sake don't be blind, deaf, and dumb to the evidence just to show that you're NOT racist. Duke Lacrosse, anyone?
- [quote]Sorry but it shows he is not the saint he is protrayed to be.
Because "not being a saint" = "worthy of death".
I find it supremely ironic that the only people who have ever used the word "saint" in reference to Trayvon Martin are the ones who think he got what he deserved.
You are the ones so hung up on his "sainthood" or lack thereof, in your gleeful rush to not only blame the victim but convict him posthumously, while exonerating the actual killer.
The rest of us are focused on how an unarmed teenager was gunned down on his way back from a munchies run in a suburban housing development, and the fact that an armed vigilante who shoots based on racial profiling must be brought to justice for the good of the people.
We can't have private citizens stalking and shooting up unfamiliar pedestrians based on arbitrary observations and false assumptions. That's not how a civilized society operates.
- r92 Trayvon was minding his own business, he was walking home. Zimmerman was a wannabe cop sitting in his car looking for trouble.
True Trayvon might have attacked Zimmerman but it was not unprovoked. Zimmerman chased him down through the streets after he was told by the 911 Operator to wait until the police arrived.
If someone approaches you in your neighborhood with a gun and assaults you, are you not entitled to protect yourself?
- According to the 911 tape, at one point Zimmerman loses sight of Trayvon because Trayvon was running away from him. This is something Zimmerman's defenders refuse to acknowledge. And for good reason. It clearly shows Zimmerman instigated the confrontation.
- Absolutely, R94! Either man has the same right to defend themselves from assault. And if that's what the evidence shows to have happened, then the jury will find the guy guilty. But, there's no evidence that Z threatened T with a gun, or even flashed it. Zero. You're making that up. The eyes and ears on the scene tell a different story, however. They all say that T was beating the shit out of Z. Z was screaming for help, his cries caught on the 911 recording. T's jeans had grass stains on the knees indicating that he was on top as the eye witnesses stated. Who knows? But, it certainly wasn't some racially motivated premeditated murder drive by style as the DL groupthink want's you to believe.
- r91, that post was perfectly clear. You didn't have any trouble reading it. It just pissed you off, especially since you couldn't refute it.
- I'm glad I now know that if someone is following me and I don't know why they are following me that I should not in any way get alarmed and decide protect or defend myself if they approach me. And if I am unarmed and I do choose to protect myself and they have a gun and shoot me, it will be my fault. It will be my fault because of every argument I've ever had, every time I've lost my temper, every joint smoked, line of coke partaken, every drunken evening means I deserved it.
- R97 What am I supposed to refute? I honestly could not make heads or tails out of what you wrote there.
- "All he had to do was stop when asked...."
r8, are you stupid? The killer HAD NO LEGAL RIGHT to demand that Trayvon stop!
All the KILLER had to do was follow his INSTRUCTIONS, which were to DISCONTINUE HIS PARANOID STALKING OF TRAYVON.
- Are they going to try and demonize marijuana like it's 1950 again? Can't we get past the fucking stigma with that drug that it makes people crazy? Yeah after finishing off a couple of pizzas and a liter of soda most people are ready to rampage!
- This is total bullshit!
This is an insult to an honorable young man and a student.
Trayvon Martin on that night was just a sweet innocent kid - a student - on his way to visit his family. Now he is being portrayed as a drug addict or a thug.
- Trayvon was a serious thug in the making.
- Possibly, R103. It seems George Zimmerman was quite determined to become a murderer.
I know which I consider the better outcome.
- Once jumped, Zimmerman had a right to defend himself.
If I was on the jury, my vote would be not guilty.
- Another not guilty.
- I'm glad you won't be on the jury, R105. Juries need to composed of people who haven't made up their minds before they're seated.
- Like you don't have an opinion r107.
- [quote]Trayvon was a serious thug in the making.
He never shot anyone. He didn't even have a gun.
George Zimmerman did have a gun, never left home without it, patrolled the neighborhood like it was his territory and shot a man dead. He's much more of a thug in actuality than Trayvon is in theory.
- R109 And dont forget, Zimmerman is the one with an arrest record and a history of violence.
- So r105 it's okay if one person in a fist fight happens to have a gun they can pull out that gun and shoot the other guy who is unarmed? Cause after all, it's a fight right?
- [quote]Trayvon Martin on that night was just a sweet innocent kid
LOL, that post was like a blow job.
- If a guy(who has a concealed gun on him), is getting his head bashed into the concrete, then YES he can shoot to protect himself.
- But he wasn't getting his head bashed into the concrete.
- R113 So you think its totally cool for someone to follow and stalk a stranger, instigate a confrontation and when they start losing the fight they started, they can shoot to kill?
- Apparently r114 was there! Have you told the police what you saw?
- I don't have to, I've seen the photos of Zimmerman walking into the police station. The security cameras at the station have pictures of his face and the back of his head. I have also seen the police photos of his face and head taken inside the precinct.
- [quote]So you think its totally cool for someone to follow and stalk a stranger, instigate a confrontation and when they start losing the fight they started
How do you know who started a fight?
- R118 Zimmerman started the confrontation when he continued to follow Trayvon who was running away from him. Zimmerman confronted Trayvon. Trayvon was trying to get home. What was Zimmerman trying to do?
- Whoa r119, that's not what you said. You said "losing the fight they started." Now back to the question. How do you know who started the "FIGHT"?
Anyone can talk to anyone about anything. But the person who initiated the physical aggression is the person who started the fight and bears responsibility for whatever happens in it.
- Yes, he was r114, and Zimmerman didn't have to let him keep doing it, especially if Martin said... "You're going to die tonight."
Zimmerman had a laceration on the back of his head and that is what he claims Martin said.
- R120 When you chase someone down and confront them you have started the fight. Had he not done that no fight would have occurred. It is possible Trayvon started the physical aspect of it because Trayvon felt threatened by a stranger and adult who was stalking him and had confronted him. There are many cases where a person who was the first to throw the punch was not charged because the court found they were provoked (the case involving Buzz Aldrin being probably the most famous). And seeing how Zimmerman already has a history of violence its not unreasonable to think who may have started the fight.
- Bottom line Zimmerman was told by the 911 Operator to wait in his vehicle until the police arrived.
If Zimmerman had followed police instructions none of this would have happened.
Since when does the neighborhood watch carry guns? The purpose of a neighborhood watch is to keep an eye out for suspicious activity and report said activities to the police immediately. The police then respond and handle the matter appropriately.
Zimmerman created a very dangerous situation by going against the instructions provided by the 911 Operator.
- [quote]Since when does the neighborhood watch carry guns?
Something that never gets mentioned is Zimmerman WAS NOT part of a neighborhood watch. The place he lived did not have one officially. He was a self appointed vigilante.
- [quote]Yes, he was [R114], and Zimmerman didn't have to let him keep doing it, especially if Martin said... "You're going to die tonight."
- [quote]When you chase someone down and confront them you have started the fight.
What a load of garbage. "Oooh, he made me angry so I HAD to hit him." Thankfully, courts usually don't buy that shit.
[quote]It is possible Trayvon started the physical aspect of it.
Then he's responsibe for what happened. It's obvious you simply want to blame Zimmerman and
exonerate Martin and will twist events and logic into knots to do it.
- R126...go die in a grease fire, racist cunt.
No one cares that the VICTIM smoked pot. if this is all the defense has then their client is history.
- [quote]Link, please.
scroll down to Zimmerman's account of events
- R126, you've been doing a fair amount of twisting yourself to justify chasing someone around the way Zimmerman did.
- [quote]Thankfully, courts usually don't buy that shit.
Actually, they do. If the court finds you have provoked a fight then you're the guilty party. Zimmerman provoked the fight. You keep ignoring this, but that doesn't change the facts.
- Zimmerman has said a lot of things that turned out to be lies. Why do you think his bail was revoked? Once a person is caught in a lie, everything else they say can be disregarded.
- Thanks, r128, you saved me some time.
And, I still say not guilty.
- [quote][R126], you've been doing a fair amount of twisting yourself to justify chasing someone around the way Zimmerman did.
No one's being prosecuted for FOLLOWING, you idiot. The only thing in question is how the death occured. Either Zimmerman was protecting himself from Martin who had physically attacked him, or he was not. Either is possible. I wasn't there, and neither were you.
- Raving loon nutcase at r127, the post you quoted said nothing about smoking pot.
- Again why was George Zimmerman following Trayvon and why didn't he listen to the 911 Dispatcher?
- [quote]Again why was George Zimmerman following Trayvon and why didn't he listen to the 911 Dispatcher?
Didn't want to I guess. Who cares?
- [quote]Actually, they do. If the court finds you have provoked a fight then you're the guilty party. Zimmerman provoked the fight.
"provoked"? You don't know much about law, do you? You don't have the right to attack someone just because you're mad at them. "Yo ahna, he done follud me an axd me what I was doin, so I had ta smack dat bitch."
The above spelling is just a simulation based on some of Martin's online communication.
- R128, I'm not so quick to buy Zimmerman's version of events. Martin is dead, so Zimmerman can make up anything he wants about what happened. He could have pulled his gun out at any point, before or after the physical fight began. I'll wait until the trial to see what evidence is presented and what witnesses tesify. For now we know this: a self-appointed vigilante defied police orders, stalked and shot an unarmed teenager based on racial profiling.
- [quote]So r105 it's okay if one person in a fist fight happens to have a gun they can pull out that gun and shoot the other guy who is unarmed? Cause after all, it's a fight right?
r105 logic: a guy walks into a liquor store, sticks a gun in the cashier's face, and yells "Gimme your money!". The cashier, unarmed, is tired of being victimized by thugs like this, so he fights back, punching the robber in the face repeatedly. The robber, fearing life-threatening brain damage, shoots the cashier dead. r105 sits on the jury and finds the robber "not guilty", as he feared for his life and was simply "standing his ground" against the dangerous cashier punching him in the face.
- r139, I can't figure out which side you're on, but that's just ridiculous.
- In R139 scenario, one of the men was committing a crime when the fight occurred. That man can not claim self defense. In the Zimmerman case, neither man has been proven to have been breaking any law when the fight broke out. False equivalency.
- r140 I was giving an example of the logic of Zimmerman's defenders, for instance, r105, who say he was right to "stand his ground" against Martin.
- Too bad Trayvon didn't get an extra six weeks to plan HIS defense.
- R137 by your own logic, it's amazing you can jump to justified murder.
And how quickly you would have had Zimmerman hanged if he was black.
- Did you know that Murder Two is GZ's fourth arrest?
And that he molested his younger cousin for ten years?
That he assaulted an under cover (female) cop?
And his ex got a restraining order against him?
That he's on at least two medications for mental disorders?
Hind that his wife was ARRESTED for lying on his behalf?
Why was he never tested for booze and drugs that night?
Why did the DA, Wolfinger, set him free claiming SYG? Why did the DA even get interfere with the case that night?
Why isn't yet GZ claiiming SYG at trial?
He was fired from a job as a bouncer for roughing up a drunk woman.
He's been in community college forever, and has nothing to show for it.
He never went to the hospital despite having his head slammed into the cement.
GZ told police that TM ran away from him. And TM was killed far from GZ's truck. In fact, TM was closer to his destination than to GZ''s truck. GZ had no business being behind TMs townhouse.
GZ was neighborhood watch captain of a neighborhood that had only three streets. Yet he claims he didn't know what street he was on, and that's why he left his vehicle.
He claimed TM jumped from out of the bushes. But there are no bushes anywhere near the crime scene.
Dispatch told him not to follow the kid. Doing so is against neighborhood watch policy. So is carrying a weapon.
"Effin coons. They always get away."
GZ claimed that TM said "you got me" after being shot through the heart. Yeah, right.
Note that GZ was a good 40 pounds heavier than the unarmed youth.
And come on. Even the trolls have to admit that no man with a gun cries desperately, animalistically, for help for no less than 40 seconds. That was a death scream. The scream immediately stopped upon the gun being fired. The first eye witness on the scene said GZ was calm and collected. The ME, however, saw a dried tear on TMs body.
TM had no defensive wounds. The girl with whom he was on the phone heard GZ confront TM.
GZ is toast. The evidence is stacked against him. Since Newtown, the NRA had plummeted in mainstream acceptance. Americans simply no longer tolerate men shooting unarmed kids to death.
- Correction: TM had no OFFENSIVE injuries.
The evidence DOES NOT support GZs claims.
- [quote]And how quickly you would have had Zimmerman hanged if he was black.
Typical programmed PC response. You're left with nothing but projecting nonexistent beliefs onto people who have points you can't refute.
- R147....based on the indisputable facts listed in r145, anyone who supports GZ is more than likely racist.
- So when will we be seeing Zimmerman's texts and internet histories. Everyone got something to hid. I want to know what are his?
- [quote]based on the indisputable facts listed in [R145], anyone who supports GZ is more than likely racist.
Based on reading datalounge for the past 6 years, it's pretty safe to conclude that anyone using the term "racist" is probably an ill-motivated lying sack of shit.
- [quote]Based on reading datalounge for the past 6 years, it's pretty safe to conclude that anyone using the term "racist" is probably an ill-motivated lying sack of shit.
True. At least 95% of the time. The racial obsessions around here are epic and inexplicable.
- I want to see Zimmerman's MANHUNT profile. How much you wanna bet it says 'no fats or femmes'
- Notice how R147 can't address the point.
- "Trayvon was the one standing his ground. What is a person supposed to do when a stranger with a gun tracks you down in the dark? Defend yourself, that's what."
So you think the thing to do when you're confronted by someone with a gun is "defend yourself" by physically attacking the person with the deadly weapon? That's pretty stupid. You could easily get yourself killed that way.
Trayvon Martin didn't know Zimmerman had a gun. Maybe he would have behaved differently if he had. After noticing Zimmerman paying attention to him he probably thought he'd show the pudgy, short white man who the badass was. He didn't count on the short, pudgy white man having a weapon. No doubt his intent was the beat the shit out of Zimmerman; pictures show Zimmerman with a bloody lip and a swollen nose and blood running down the back of his head. It was Zimmerman who defended himself. But I suppose Martin's supporters will still insist it was Martin who was "attacked" despite Martin having sustained on injuries except some bruises on his knuckles from punching Zimmerman.
- r145 you make an excellent case and if everything you're saying is true that's great. Obviously GZ's character is also fucked up and as fucked up if not more so than TM's character.
In a way, they were both somewhat equal in fuckedupness. TM - thug, druggie, gun freak & GZ. There's no winners and losers, just 2 fucked up people here imho. One is dead. One made bad decisions. One was a thug, but now a dead thug. The other criminal past but not as much in the recent past.
- R145 is one of those nutty, crazy, unhinged Trayvon Martin groupies who will say anything to discredit George Zimmerman. ANYTHING.
- r154 Zimmerman was instructed by the 911 Operator to stay in his vehicle until the police arrived. He disregarded the police's instructions. He created a dangerous situation for both Martin and himself.
The fact that Zimmerman was patrolling his neighborhood with a gun speaks volumes as to where his head was that night.
Zimmerman is not a victim, he willingly placed himself in a situation with a variety of unknown factors.
This case will not be tried in the court of public opinion. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out once the trial is underway. It seems Zimmerman's defense has already started to reveal some of what their defense strategy may be. I am curious as to how the prosecution will frame all of this.
- "Effin coons. They always get away."
The transcripts of the 911 phone call show he did not say "effin coons." You're a liar.
- You have no evidence to say Trayvon was a druggie (he was known to smoke pot), gun freak (he had a picture of a gun on his cell phone) and a thug (no evidence)?
- 156 if you do some research you can find those facts in the many news items on the net. Those things in 145 are all true.
- The freepers won't address any of that, R157.
They never do.
- r156 is any of what r145 stated true? Seems like r145 is simply doing the same thing that Zimmerman's defense did when they released all of that info regarding Martin yesterday.
- I would think the prosecution has a strong enough case simply with Zimmerman choosing to ignore the police's orders and take matters into his own hands.
And the whole issue with if you think your life is in danger, why do you then willingly place yourself BACK into that situation after you are out of it? He was clearly out of danger but put himself back into it.
- Then prove him/her wrong, r156, instead of breaking out your beyond-tired "unhinged" label.
- Like I said,r76-you are the true definition of a sociopath-blaming others for the same thing you're guilty of! Was it the Tsarnaev comparison that got to you? You keep posting on various websites ad infinitum that Trayvon,a teenager like the younger Tsarnaev brother,deserved what he got when he was minding his own business,trying to make his way home when that lunatic with a gun-Zimmerman-profiled him from the safety of his car. Tsarnaev was welcomed in this country with open arms,"the complexion for the protection"as another poster so aptly put it. The world was his oyster but he threw it all away to become a murdering bomber-have you spent the same amount of time pondering his pathology like you do Trayvon? Your pathetic attempts at trying to sound rational about Trayvons murder hold no weight when you and other racists pick up the story AFTER Zimmerman confronted Trayvon FIRST. You heard the operator telling Zimmerman to stand down(but of course you and your ilk will debate whether or not it was an official command,since it was just a 911 operator)but yet you aford that cop wannabe trash Zimmerman all the rights of a "neighborhood watchman" when in fact he was acting on his own and no real neighborhood watch organization has been stupid enough to claim him?
- "156 if you do some research you can find those facts in the many news items on the net. Those things in 145 are all true.'
Many of the "news items" were total bullshit. The infamous 911 call where Zimmerman was supposed to have said "he looks black" without any prompting (He mentioned race! That means he's a RACIST!) was in fact edited. He said "he looks black" in response to the dispatcher's question about what race the suspect might have been. That's just one incident in which the information turned out to be a total lie. .
The attempts to demonize and smear Zimmerman are downright hysterical. He's not exactly an exemplary human being. But God knows neither was Trayvon Martin.
- "Then prove him/her wrong, [R156], instead of breaking out your beyond-tired "unhinged" label."
His arguments are the standard accusations loonies who hate George Zimmerman believe. They are trying to make him out to be evil incarnate and that is indeed batshit crazy.
He wasn't THERE, yet he thinks he knows exactly what happened, exactly what Zimmerman and Martin were thinking and doing. I've noticed that a common characteristic of the Trayvon groupies is that they think they have a psychic connection with Zimmerman and Martin that enables them to know EXACTLY what transpired between them. They are consumed with hatred and hysteria. They're sick.
- Lives like a thug, dies like a thug.
- Lives like a racist, trolls like a racist.
- "No gun, no knife, no pot, no alcohol and he wasn't trespassing or robbing or threatening anyone when George Zimmerman hunted him down and shot him to death."
Oh shut up, you ignorant fuck. You weren't there so you don't know WHAT happened.
- R171, literally only three minutes transpired from the end of GZ's call and the end of TMs life
TM was killed closer to his destination than to GZ's truck. That's a fact.
The death scream is recorded. It lasted for 45 seconds.
TMs friend heard GZ confront TM over the phone.
TM had no weapons, no stolen property, & no drugs on him.
TM had no offensive injuries.
GZ did not go to the hospital.
TM ran away. GZ said so himself.
GZ had no reason to be in TM's backyard.
GZ was calm immediately after shooting the kid to death. He was fresh as a bunny an hour later.
Obviously, he was not afraid of TM. If her were, he would not have approached him. TM posed no threat to GZ.
IMO, GZ was behind the burglaries in his own neighborhood. He didn't have a steady job and was home during the day. He needed to blame the robberies on somebody, so he figured he'd stage a patsy. He didn't know that TM was not a thug. I think GZ was genuinely shocked when he could not find some kind of weapon on TMs body. But his daddy's friend was the DA, and GZ knee he'd get off because of SYG.
GZ is deluded. This is the guy who, from behind bars, spoke in code to his wife to conceal how much money poured in from donors. She very quickly was arrested for perjury when she told the judge they were flat broke.
GZ went on Hannity and said he felt no remorse at all for any of the events that took place that night. He said it was God's Will. Oh, and he has never denied that he molested his younger cousin for 10 years. He was a bully.
- [quote]"Effin coons. They always get away."
He didn't say that. I thought that crap was put to rest a long time ago.
NBC's getting caught editing police recordings was extremely dangerous and despicable.
Also, a 911 dispatcher is not the police.
The "Stand Your Ground" law is a disgrace, and you can easily say that Martin was standing his ground as well.
I can literally go and shoot anyone and claim that I felt that my life was in danger in the aftermath. I can't stand Florida, and yes, I do know that this type of law is law in other states, but Florida is still just the worst.
- I do not feel sorry for Trayvon Martin. At least the world has one less hoodlum to be afraid of.
- R131 - Witness #8, the girlfriend... Lied on the stand about the hospital visit. Fact. Thus, per your comment, nothing she says further should be considered credible.
- Lol, r175. You want to discredit the ear witness because she will testify that GZ confronted the kid. She clearly heard GZ say, "what are you doing around here?" and then TM say, "why are you following me?" And then the phone went dead.
Yes, you are a truth seeker who wants to discredit a key witness for the prosecution because the kid said she couldn't go to a wake or funeral or something because she had a head ache or whatever that has nothing to do with the case and is irrelevant and won't prevent her from testifying and was completely harmless.
That witness is not on trial. The killer is.
The killer who has a history of violence.
The killer who has psychological problems.
The killer who lied to the judge about his finances and got his own wife arrested for perjury.
At least you don't rush to judgment, r175. You are a noble truth seeker...right.
- [quote]The "Stand Your Ground" law is a disgrace.
Why? I live in Ohio, "Stand Your Ground" is the law, signed into law by a democrat governor.
I have no issues with the law and don't understand why anyone would, lest you be a criminal intent on harming me.
- Because of cases like TM, r177. Black kids are getting killed all over the place because of SYG.
- Really R178? Please explain how Stand Your Ground had anything to do with these young Black men getting shot/stabbed?
Sorry but being black doesn't give you the freedom to go where you don't belong, my house being one example.
- [quote]Sorry but being black doesn't give you the freedom to go where you don't belong, my house being one example.
- [quote]Trayvon Martin didn't know Zimmerman had a gun. Maybe he would have behaved differently if he had.
He wasn't THERE, yet he thinks he knows exactly what happened, exactly what Zimmerman and Martin were thinking and doing. I've noticed that a common characteristic of the Zimmerman groupies is that they think they have a psychic connection with Zimmerman and Martin that enables them to know EXACTLY what transpired between them. They are consumed with hatred and hysteria. They're sick.
- "Sorry but being black doesn't give you the freedom to go where you don't belong."
Like walking on the street? Should we go back to having black and white only areas?
- "He wasn't THERE, yet he thinks he knows exactly what happened, exactly what Zimmerman and Martin were thinking and doing. I've noticed that a common characteristic of the Zimmerman groupies is that they think they have a psychic connection with Zimmerman and Martin that enables them to know EXACTLY what transpired between them. They are consumed with hatred and hysteria. They're sick."
I don't think I've seen the likes of you since grade school. I remember in grade school there were obnoxious little turds who, thinking they were being clever, would repeat what you said verbatim, over and over. Such behavior was called "copying." They did it to be annoying, just as you. I don't know how old you are, but you have the mentality of a none too bright, socially maladjusterd middle-school child. No doubt you repel anyone who is unfortunate enough to be in your presence. I feel sorry for you.
- If this case hadn't been trumped up into a racial issue nobody would have given a shit about the death of Trayvon Martin. Why would they? He was just some loser teenager, been suspended from school several times, committed vandalism and theft, and considered himself a "gangsta." But he was made into a martyr, a symbol of race based persecution of African-Americans. His martydom is undeserved.
That's what this whole case is about: the assumption that George Zimmerman is a rabid racist who saw a black teenager loitering and "hunted him down" and shot him without provocation. He killed Martin because he was black; that's the basis of this case. It's really a load of bullshit.
Zimmerman was an overzealous neighborhood watch volunteer (at least that's what he considered himself to be); he prpbably would have reacted the same way if the teenager in question had been white. Race almost certainly had nothing to do with it. Of course the supporters of Trayvon Martin dispute that, shrieking that Zimmerman is an evil racist who hates black and wants to kill them but they don't have any real evidence to support that claim.
Well, hopefully the facts will come out at his trial. The FACTS, not heresay or rumors or lies. Hopefully what really happened will come to light at the trial. Because all the lies and unsubstatiated rumors are truly sickening.
- Wow, talk about denial, R184.
- r184 is correct
- R184 is mistaken.
Why was TM suspicous? What did he do elicit a phone call to the police?
He was staying there. He belonged in that neighborhood.
Had TM been white, GZ would not have reported him.
If TM had been white, GZ would not have chased him.
Had TM been white, the police would have arrested his killer.
If the killer had been black, and the victim white, the killer would have been arrested immediately.
TM was racially profiled. GZ said, "they always get away." Who's "they?"
So if GZ did not say effin coons, then what did he say? Effin goons? Not likely.
You apparently don't know much about Sanford, FL. They have a long history of racial conflict. Just because you keep your head in the sand, doesn't mean everybody else must, too. We know what's what.
TM was targeted because of the color of his skin. That's not right. Not that integrity, justice and fairness matters to lonely, angry trolls. But growns up will be in the jury, and GZ had tons of evidence stacked against him.
All of this is HIS fault. Had he minded his own business, Sheriff Lee would still have a job, DA Wolfinger would have a job, GZ's wife never would have been arrested for perjury, Sanford would not have been the subject of international protests, GZ would not be facing Murder 3 charges, and most importantly to those of us who are not racist trolls: Trayvon Martin would still be alive.
- What if TM had been able to pass for white?
What if the gay guy shot in the face had frequent visits to gay porn sites on his IPad; confirmed email pick up dates from Manhunt; pictures of hard dicks spewing cum on his cell; text about weed purchases? Is the shot gay guy a loser, and the shooter justified?
- Zimmerman said "punks" not "coons". Every voice analysis expert, the best in the business, confirmed it. It was one of those instances where people are told what someone said before actually hearing the audio, and their brains automatically process the audio as the person saying the word. When you take a step back and listen closely, you can hear that he's not saying "coons". Who in this day and age still says that term anyway? You're more likely to hear "niggers".
It is true that people want this to be a race relations incident, and will stop at nothing, even fudging the facts to keep that narrative going. This is exactly the reason why they kept tampering with the audio, and they also won't admit that Zimmerman isn't Caucasian.
Too bad they're wasting their time on race and not the stupid law that's getting so many people killed.
Oh, and Zimmerman is an asshole. He should be in jail for this crime. Don't think that I'm saying the guy is innocent. He was the aggressor. He followed the guy. Right there you know he's looking for trouble, and has no problem with confrontation. If he thought the guy was so dangerous, he wouldn't have gone up to him. Case closed. It is Florida though...
- [quote]Zimmerman said "punks" not "coons".
How do you know? Were you there?
[quote]Every voice analysis expert, the best in the business, confirmed it.
Oh, ok. We should just take your word for it. Lets not even bother with a trial then. Smh
Voice analysts also concluded that it was the victim crying for help for 45 seconds, not the killer. But the Zimbots don't trust THOSE expert findings. Typical.
[quote]Who in this day and age still says that term anyway?
Racist hicks on crazy pills who call the cops on every black person that walks down their street, that's who.
Even if he did say PUNK (poonks?), what did he mean by that?
Are there troves of punks roaming little ol Sanford, FL?
What are they getting away with?
What did TM do to indicate he was "getting away" with something?
GZ is not a cop. He's not a judge or jury. He doesn't get to decide who lives and who dies. He's not psychic. He's the one who got away with something...killing another human being.
That's why he chose a young black male. A full grown adult would have kicked his ass but good. So he didn't approach any of them in the past.
He figured the typical black kid in Sanford would have drugs or a weapon or something illegal on his person. He knew that black boys are loathed by society (as evidenced in this thread), and that it wouldn't have been closely investigated. Especially with his daddy's connections.
And he almost got away with it. Sheriff Lee hoped this would all blow over and be forgotten. GZ even said that it would in a taped phone call with his wife, who got arrested for perjury. They were planning a great life together with all the money that poured in from the NRA nuts.
Al Sharpton was the first national outlet to report on this case. The whole world was outraged that a man could kill an unarmed boy and not be arrested. There were protests internationally as well as here at home. Because of that, the case was reopened. After 44 days of total freedom GZ was finally arrested. But for Murder Two, not Manslaughter like Det. Serrino wanted on the night it happened. ( He was overturned by DA Wolfinger, who went on to recuse himself and then quietly retired. Nobody knows why he even got involved. I think he's a family friend. )
I live near Sanford and have followed this case closely from day one. GZ is toast. The evidence against him is truly overwhelming.
- A man with a gun stalked and shot an unarmed teenager and then cried self-defense.
The only justice in this case will be the killer getting life in prison.
- According to the liberal media George Zimmerman is a white Hispanic. What the hell is a white Hispanic?
- This R192, is a white Hispanic.
Frankie Muniz from Malcolm in the middle. A white (looking anyway) Puerto Rican.
- An easy acquittal. Unless O.J.'s jury gets seated. Unfortunately, the jury will have to see the images that the media have carefully kept from the public: the fact that Trayvon wasn't a 12-year old in a Hollister's t-shirt but over 6 foot and nearly 200 pounds. Having that on your chest bashing your face in EASILY creates a reasonable fear for your life, which justifies the bullet to the chest.
I expect minimal deliberations.
- But r193 etc George Zimmerman does not look white at all. Cameron Diaz, ok, she looks white, her father is Spanish & German.
George Zimmerman looks like he just crossed the border.
- "Had TM been white, GZ would not have reported him.
If TM had been white, GZ would not have chased him"
TM was targeted because of the color of his skin."
Apparently you believe yourself to have psychic powers that enable you to know exactly what GZ was thinking and doing that night. You should probably go to a mental health professional and get thoroughly evaluated, because that type of thinking indicates you are suffering from some form of serious mental illness.
- I have never heard of White Hispanic before so I have to figure they mean a Hispanic that either looks White or is mixed. Zimmerman's father is White hence the last name.
- "How do you know? Were you there?"
You weren't there either, hon. You should really shut the fuck up.
"That's why he chose a young black male. A full grown adult would have kicked his ass but good. So he didn't approach any of them in the past."
GZ "chose a young black male?" So you believe you know exactly what GZ was thinking that night? Wow, are you fucked up. And what's your shit about him not "choosing" a "full grown adult?" According to his autopsy Trayvon Martin was 5'11 inches tall and weighed 158 pounds. That seems pretty "full grown" to me.
"He figured the typical black kid in Sanford would have drugs or a weapon or something illegal on his person. He knew that black boys are loathed by society (as evidenced in this thread), and that it wouldn't have been closely investigated. Especially with his daddy's connections."
Again, you're trying to pass yourself off as a mind reader. You sound like you're...crazy.
And "black boys are loathed by society?" Your paranoia is truly disturbing. Get some HELP.
- Oh shut the fuck up,r198 and keep living the rest of your miserable life in paranoia and anger against people of color! Arent you happy that another black male is off the streets but the have to dance on the kids grave,too? Racists are so fucking stupid-so consumed with guns,scared of your own shadow at some unseen boogieman and trying to annihilate anyone that doesn't look like you. But just look in the mirror-YOU are the boogieman-the scary thing to be feared, not Trayvon. It must suck to be you- throwing out all reason and logic just to denigrate a dead kid you don't even know. To paraphrase Don Draper " this is all there is, there is no tomorrow". This is how you choose to spend this finite amount of time we all have? You must be a truly ugly person, inside and out, to try to justify that murderer Zimmerman. As r190 so succinctly put it, Zimmerman's reckless actions has had a domino effect on everyone-all negative. Just think(I know it's hard for you, but try)if Zimmerman didn't have such a sense of racial entitlement, embolden by the gun at his side- and left Trayvon alone and watched him walk just a few feet more to his destination, NONE of this would have happened. But this is the life he chose-you slay, you pay. I for one would love to hear Zimmerman's reason for trying to detain a teenage boy. Was he going to sexually molest him like he did one of own family members? That should all come out in the trial.
- [quote]What the hell is a white Hispanic?
This is the level of stupidity on Datalounge now. Unbelievable.
- R194, if its such an easy case, then why are you lying about the victims weight?
The unarmed teen was 158 pounds. A good 40 pounds lighter than the gunman who followed him.
- R195, perhaps you should ask Sergio Garcia.
He's the white Hispanic golfer who made the news last week for making a racist joke about Tiger Woods.
- Racists are very angry people.
R199, your hatred hurts only yourself. Let it go & open your heart. Do some soul searching.
Take a Black History class at your community college.
- I'm surprised any of that would be admissible in Florida. It's completely irrelevant unless the defendant knew about it at the time.
- You're confused, R203.
- You're not persuasive, 205.
- Sounds like a typical teenager to me. Smoking pot doesn't mean you are bad or deserve to be hunted like an animal.
- R204, it's not admissible.
The defense is just desperate.
- [quote]But [R193] etc George Zimmerman does not look white at all. Cameron Diaz, ok, she looks white, her father is Spanish & German.
George Zimmerman looks like he just crossed the border.
You are right R195. Zimmerman is NOT a white Hispanic.
- When chasing kids at night, he looks white.
- He never looks white. He looks light brown. At night he'd look darker, if anything.
- Hunty,at r203-you're talking about people havings souls? Oh,the irony! As I said before, you truly must be an ugly person-inside and out-to be spamming various websites to discrediting a murdered teen. Like another ugly person-your hero,Zimmerman-sitting alone in a car on a damp night,looking to make someone else's life as miserable as his own. You can be assured that good looking people have better things to do-in fact people chase after them-like Zimmerman chased and stalked Trayvon!
The only good think to come out of this is that self hating nut job Zimmerman is off to streets and he can't molest and murder other teenage boys. Perhaps in jail surrounds by a sea of faces just like his,he can reflect on all the damage his worthless existence has caused. Who knows-maybe someone will throw him a pity fuck or you can write love letters to him in prison!
- Never say never r211
Especially about things impossible to know.
GZ is toast.
- [quote]How do you know? Were you there?
What?! We have the audio. We don't have to have "been there". The jury isn't going to have been there either. Using that logic, I'll point you to your own assertion: "Lets not even bother with a trial then." Oh, and "smh". Really? You must be a dumb teen.
Zimmerman is not on trial for supposedly using a slur (which he didn't).
Zimmerman's Defense is trying to show that Trayvon Martin would have gladly attacked someone who would simply have gone up to him and asked what he was doing. They're also going to say that George Zimmerman did not go up to the guy and tell him to get lost and then instantly shoot him for being there. They're going to say that Martin went at him, and that's why Zimmerman used the gun. With that scenario, under that law, Zimmerman had the right to defend himself.
With these texts, they're trying to show Martin's character. Martin has a history of vandalism, something and someone you wouldn't want in your neighborhood. Martin was also carrying a drink and candy that anyone under 25 years old knows is used to get high. The guy was not just thirsty and wanted a snack. They're again trying to show that Martin was a shady character. The US government still asserts that pot is a "gateway drug", thus Martin was on his way to concoct another drug to get high.
Here's the thing, Zimmerman didn't do anything illegal by going up to him and asking what he was doing, or telling him to get lost. What is going to be in question is: did Zimmerman say this to him while pointing a gun, thus having Martin try and defend himself because of it. The problem with this is that people don't believe that anyone would attack anyone who was aiming a gun at them.
What I will never forget is Martin's mother telling a crowd that this wasn't a black vs. white issue. The black people surrounding her were suddenly pissed. lol
The trying to make Zimmerman out to be some racist white guy hurts their movement right from the start. Ironically, they could have used Latinos vs. blacks, which does exist. They could have still made this a race issue without trying to lie and make Zimmerman white.
Martin's supporters will riot if Zimmerman doesn't get the ultimate punishment,and because of the law, he could easily walk free.
At any rate, Nancy Grace and HLN have their ratings bonanza locked into place this summer.
Continuing with the rants, friends.
- R213, I hope Zimmerman is toast. Then justice will prevail.
He still is not white. I have eyes, and they work.
- All that matters in the actual case is whether Zimmerman's defense of self defense holds merit in the eyes of the jury. We don't know because we aren't there hearing all the evidence. We don't know if it is true that Martin assaulted Zimmerman first and we don't know if the level of assault justified Zimmerman using a gun in accordance to the law and we don't know if Martin's death was an accidental act on Zimmerman's part or a deliberate one.
Even if we were hearing all the evidence, it is never easy to determine these things after the fact.
That being said, I do believe that most people view young, black males as potential criminals and this can cause them terrible harm and harassment. It is worth it to question this societal notion. Yes, young black males have a high homicide rate in proportion to their percentage number of the population but they also are as much more likely to be homicide victims in proportion to their percentage. And white makes under 25 still commit the majority of violent crime in the country, with the exception of drug related homicides.
I don't think anyone in the Zimmerman-Martin trial should be framing it in terms of race at all, but there is a reason it hit a national nerve.
- r202 Sergio Garcia is not "Hispanic." He's European born in Spain. George Zimmerman's mother is from Peru. From appearance alone, GZ does not look white.
Another thing is that you don't need to be white to be a racist. Where did this gibberish come from that only a white person can be racist?
What's ironic is that George Zimmerman did profile Trayvon. Here's this black kid wearing a hoodie walking at night in *his* neighborhood. He must be a criminal!
If r214 was on the jury panel, the verdict would be reached in less than 5 minutes. "NOT GUILTY!" because r214 learned everything about law from watching Nancy Grace!
- [quote]Martin's supporters will riot if Zimmerman doesn't get the ultimate punishment
That's a racist meme.
The only violence that has happened as a result of this case were some racial killings that occurred in Oklahoma immediately following GZ's arrest.
Timothy McVeigh and his ilk are far more dangerous than any so called "new black panthers."
- Looks like Trayvn Martin will be on trial, not George Zimmerman.
BTW, how did Zimmerman gain all of that weight so fast? Was HE on drugs (meth) the night he shot and killed Martin?
- For the dumbass at r217:
[quote]Hispanic always refers to something related to Hispania, Spain or the Spanish language and culture.
- R224, TM is not on trial for his own murder. His texts and photos are inadmissible. O'Mars is simply tainting the jury pool, hoping to get racist sympathizers like yourself on the jury.
GZ had no right to follow the kid.
GZ had no right to talk to the kid.
TM had every right to walk home from the store in peace. He was hanging out on his cell with a girl.
TM was minding his own business.
None of this would have happend had GZ listened to dispatch and remained in his vehicle. This is 100% GZ's fault.
- Can you imagine how sexually unattractive r212 is.
- r220 Spanish people don't refer to themselves as "Hispanic" because they are just Spanish or European. The only people who refer to Spaniards as "Hispanic" are those who can't tell the difference between a Cuban and Puerto Rican; or a Mexican and a Peruvian.
Go to Spain and shout from the top of your lungs that the people there are Hispanic and tell them you got that from Wikipedia.
It's funny how you had to run to Wiki as your linguistic bible.
- If Zimmerman had the decency to not be poor this would have never made the news.
- What are you talking about, r224? His daddy's a retired judge. His mom is a local hot shot, too.
- I hope they fry Zimmerman. Racist piece of shit.
- Zimmerman stalked and shot an unarmed teenager and then [italic]blames it on the teenager[/italic].
He's a cold blooded killer who needs to be put down.
- Too bad, George Zimmerman. The judge ruled against both of your motions today.
No trial delay while you dig up more dirt on Trayvon Martin.
You don't get to admit into evidence the dirt you've already found.
- [quote]Can you imagine how sexually unattractive [R212] is.
Karma can be sexually unattractive. Depends...
- Thanks for the update, r228! That's great news. :)
SANFORD, Fla. – A judge Tuesday refused to delay the June 10 trial of George Zimmerman, charged with second-degree murder in the February 2012 shooting death of Trayvon Martin.
Circuit Judge Debra Nelson, at a hearing on more than 20 motions ahead of the trial, also ruled that lawyers can't mention Trayvon's school records, past fights, marijuana use, ownership of gold teeth, or any photos or text messages found on the teen's cellphone.
- Even if Trayvon Martin were an alcoholic drug addict with a long history of barroom brawls, the fact that he was NOT inebriated that night and the fact that he had none of the killer’s DNA on his hands or sleeves and no scratches on his knuckles, coupled with the fact that the heart-rending (literally) hollowpoint bullet entered his chest at NO ANGLE at intermediate range while it tore through his clothing at point-BLANK range while his sweatshirt was stretched DISPROVE the fantasy that he violently attacked and beat up poor Zimmerman that night, as Zimmerman and his friendly “kill-a-kid” cops would have had us believe.
- As for motive, what do you have? Trayvon Martin’s CHARACTER? Opposite that, murder for Zimmerman to kill Trayvon Martin is clear from his recorded comments to the police dispatcher:
“A real suspicious guy”
“He looks like he’s up to no good”
“He looks like he’s on drugs or somepin”
“These a55holes, they always get away”
“I don’t know what his thing is”
“Sh!t, he’s running”
- If the prosecution sticks to the events the night TM was killed, and doesn't try to portray the kid as an innocent, then the defense won't bring up the kid's past. However, if the prosecution tries to put forth the false narrative that the kid WAS an innocent - wouldn't harm a fly kind of thing that the media has pushed on the jury pool all along, then you can rest assured that the texts and other facts of his character will go before the jury. GZ has a constitutional right to defend himself, regardless of what you think his motivation. The jury has a right to know the kid was a fighter, in a fight club - that goes to GZ's need to defend himself from deadly force if he was being pummeled by an experienced fighter. The old "these fists are registered weapons" thing. If the judge disallows these facts to be presented to the jury, and if GZ is subsequently convicted - there will be a successful appeal on this item alone.
- [quote]doesn't try to portray the kid as an innocent
What did TM do that night that disqualifies him from being portrayed as "innocent?"
- I have a feeling this thread will be the longest in DL history.
- Based on the judge's motion today I predict a re-trial soon and a disqualification for the judge, at worst an appeal saying the judge is prejudicial towards TM & not unbiased.
- [quote]The jury has a right to know the kid was a fighter, in a fight club - that goes to GZ's need to defend himself from deadly force if he was being pummeled by an experienced fighter.
What part of none of Zimmerman's DNA was found on Martin's unmarked hands or clothing did you miss, R233? Martin did not "pummel" Zimmerman, apparently he never touched his murderer.
- R233 What are the facts of his character? He was a 17 year old child. He didn't have a police record. George Zimmerman did. Trayvon wasn't a menance constantly fighting at school. Trayvon attended church and played sports. His parents were both active in his life. What other facts other them him trying cop some weed do you think qualifies him to deserved to get shot and killed. Oh and Trayvon did not own a gun.
- R233 MUST be a joke-not funny, but still a joke. If not, then it must have escaped from an insane asylum with all that twisted Zimmerman fan fiction. "Fight clubs"??!! Girl, you need serious mental counseling-you are proof positive that racism is a disease of the mind-or what's left of yours!
- They've got to poison the potential jury now, just in case the judge won't let some of that evidence in later.
- Hysterical queen @ R239, choke on it...
- Today was a smack down on the defense.
- good analysis if forensic evidence in this case that casts doubt over Zimmerman's account of that night.
- "What are the facts of his character? He was a 17 year old child. He didn't have a police record. George Zimmerman did. Trayvon wasn't a menance constantly fighting at school. Trayvon attended church and played sports. His parents were both active in his life. What other facts other them him trying cop some weed do you think qualifies him to deserved to get shot and killed. Oh and Trayvon did not own a gun.
A 17 year old isn't exactly a "child." A minor, but not a "child." I guess you think those pictures of him at age 12 was what he looked like at the time of his death.
Here are some other facts of his character. He was suspended from school not once, but several times. He was caught with a bag of jewelry and a burglary tool in his backpack; he said somebody "gave" him the jewelry. He was caught was a baggie with pot residue in it. From his texts, it was ascertained that he's a pot smoker and considered himself a "gangsta." His texts also confirmed that he was involved in fighting and had a massive chip on his shoulder.
Don't make Trayvon Martin out to be a choir boy. He wasn't.
What I think happened is this: Martin sees Zimmerman paying attention to him and thinking it over a bit, decides some payback is in order. Zimmerman is short and pudgy; Martin figures he'll be easy to take down. Zimmerman has said that Martin approached him and asked "do you have a problem?" Answering no, Martin replies "you do now" and attacks him, jumps him and starts punching him pounding his head into the ground. That sounds very plausible to me. Martin thought he had the upper hand, but didn't count on Zimmerman packing a guy. He was a cocky teenager, in his own words "a gangsta", and figured he would show Zimmerman who was boss. And look where it got him: shot once, in the chest, at close range.
What's that saying? Live by the sword, die by the sword? I think it holds true in this case.
- R244, what does Trayvon's past have to do with his seven minute encounter with Zimmerman that night?
What could Trayvon possibly have done in his past that would have justified George Zimmerman to shoot him to death?
Why, in your eyes, was Trayvon Martin less qualified to live than a so called choir boy?
Trayvon Martin was an American citizen. Our nation's Constitution guaranteed his right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
George Zimmerman violated Trayvon Martin's basic human rights.
- [quote]What I think happened is this:
Not even Freud cares about your delusional dribblings.
Because your little fantasy is exactly that. Pure fiction.
- I FF that CUNT R2
FUCK YOU, CUNT
- I don't think a teenager talking about weed and taking pictures of his middle finger proves anything.
- So because he was a wannabe teenage thug, he deserved to die?
Blaming the victim doesn't take away that Zimmerman stalked and killed an unarmed kid.
The one of the phone with him was his girlfriend.
- R244, I have to wonder why you are so eager to take the word of a man who has previously been arrested three times. Murder Two is his fourth arrest. He's still in his 20s. How many times have you been arrested? I never have been and I'm older than he. Nobody in my family has ever been arrested, either. Yet your guy, whom you defend, has been arrested multiple times.
What do you think about the fact that he molested his younger cousin for ten years? He apologized to her and her family, and promised not to attend family functions if she would not go to the police. Is that a stand up guy in your eyes? Would you let him baby sit your nieces? That is the man you so adamantly defend for killing an unarmed youth who was doing nothing wrong.
Also, georges wife lied under oath, in a court of law, to a judge. George put her up to it. She was quickly arrested for perjury. Nice family, huh?
I also find it strange that you don't question the judgment of a man who is on multiple prescriptions for psychological disorders. Do you not agree that's it's a shame the Sanford police did not test the killer for drugs or alcohol?
Does it really not bother you that George told Sean Hannity that it was God's Will that Trayvon Martin die that night?
Ok, then you have no credibility whatsoever. You're simply not an honest broker.
- If Trayvon Martin truly was a thug the defense wouldn't need to try so hard to paint him as such. A real thug would have had a good in his pants. Pot smoking,a fight at school and some ignorant tweets on twitter doesn't equate to being a thug. George Zimmerman shot an unarmed teenager down.
- I meant gun in his pants.
- This is true R251. Martin didnt have a gun, or even a knife,... some thug.
I would like one of the few on here with their heads up Zimmerman's ass to pull it out for just long enough to respond to the fact that there was none of Zimmie's DNA on Martin's hands. How would that be possible had he smashed the fat man's head into the ground, and hit him?
Your pal Zim claims Martin grabed his gun. There was no DNA from Martin on it. Zim-Zim is a liar. He has lied over and over again, along with his wife.
What say you about this?
- R253, thy didn't charge Zimmerman with a crime for many months, why would they run DNA on those items right away?
- Trayvon getting shot was like the sun setting, it was going to happen. The fact that a non-black pulled the trigger is the only reason anyone gives a fuck.
- R255, that doesn't even make enough sense to dignify with a response other than to say it makes no sense.
R254 I honestly am not sure what you're trying to say. Are you asking why the man wasn't arrested right away?
- The bottom line is, this case's outcome could go either way.
- I think R254 imagines a world where the investigation and evidence testing doesn't occur until someone is charged with a crime. Maybe he's from old Soviet Russia or something.
- If Zimmerman is found guilty, it will be interesting to see if the jurors didn't believe that Martin was viciously pummeling Zimmerman when Zimmerman shot him,or if they believed it but didn't care. It seems like a lot of people who believe that Zimmerman should be punished acknowledge that Martin was probably bashing Zimmerman's head in, but feel that Zimmerman deserved it for trailing Martin.
- So many racist post in here.
- I cannot believe some of these posts. You must be Republicans. Or Libertarians. And certainly racist because your guy has not one shred of a reason to do what he did. Not one.
For those of you defending Zimmerman, name one factual thing that Trayvon did to instigate or in any way warrant any attention from Zimmerman? Let alone being stalked and killed by him.
He was walking while black in Zimmerman's vicinity, apparently is the only thing Trayvon did that night. Really. Name one thing this young man did that night that should warrant any attention let alone a murder.
It matters not one whit all this nonsense about Trayvon's past. This isn't a custody hearing; this is a murder charge. What is wrong with some of you? This is typical of what the guilty do all the time: stir up a lot of noise and point all available fingers at the other person, in hopes no one will notice they are guilty, guilty, guilty.
Trayvon had no weapon. Zimmerman did.
Trayvon ran away from Zimmerman. Zimmerman stalked and hunted Trayvon even though Zimmerman was told to stop his fantasy vigilante actions and wait for the police.
I, for one, do not care what this young man did in defense of his life. Zimmerman purposely and with malicious intent pursued Trayvon. And he had to work to chase him down.
Of course Trayvon would defend himself. Who wouldn't? How can any of you defend Zimmerman?
I do look forward to your facts.
- I don't really have high hopes that Zimmerman will be convicted. It is Florida afterall.
Zimmerman has also changed his story: what he told the police and what he later told during a television interview.
I agree r261 it makes no sense why anyone would defend Zimmerman's actions. It's late at night and if someone was stalking me, I'd do my best to defend myself if confronted.
- Zimmerman could have called the cops and walked away. Trayvon could have just walked home and had his dad talk to the guy who was following him. Trayvon decided to stop and confront Zimmerman, that didn't work out too well for him.
- How do you know we even know that Trayvon confronted Zimmerman? We don't know anything. The only thing we know is what Zimmerman says and he's not exactly a disinterested party.
- This is why it's going to get thrown out. The content of TM's character is relevant if he's portrayed as an innocent young black child who just bought skittles, when in fact he was buying "sizzurp", and that can and will come out in the trial.
Also for the people screaming "racist racist racist" over and over again, it sounds like you are the racists - GZ is hispanic just look at him.
- You really think fat Zimmerman could have caught up to Trayvon if he didn't want a confrontation?
- At the time of the incident, Zimmerman was slim, not fat. This shows you really don't know the case very well r266 to comment.
I don't follow it like most true-crime people do, but I saw the photos the defense publicized showing the wounds to his head on the news.
Here's a link to what he looked like on that night. He ballooned (again) after his bail was posted. He's been living (and eating) quite well.
- That's not a slim man. He's less fat there than now, but still fat.
- The youth was dead within three minutes of the killer being disconnected from dispatch.
The youth had no offensive injuries. That means there is zero evidence that the youth illegally assaulted the man with the gun who chased him.
Keep in mind dispatch told the killer not to follow the kid. The gun man agreed not to. But there he was...a couple minutes later. Out of his vehicle. In the victims backyard.
Anyone who thinks a man with a gun would cry for help for 45 seconds against an unarmed teenager who was a good 40 pounds lighter than he is dishonest and unworthy of consideration.
- [quote]This is why it's going to get thrown out. The content of TM's character is relevant if he's portrayed as an innocent young black child who just bought skittles, when in fact he was buying "sizzurp", and that can and will come out in the trial.
Bullshit. If a non-black kid buys Skittles and Arizona tea, it's just that, but if a black kid buys Skittles and Arizona Tea, he's planning on making "sizzurp"? Seriously, fuck you.
- When I was a teenager, we were always looking for ways to get high. We'd chug cough syrups and raid our mother's medicine cabinets for Valium.
It was messed up but I was a dumb kid who wanted to be wild. I also made good grades and loved all sorts of geeky activity. Eventually I just gave in to being a geek and was happier.
I'm glad nobody shot me during my druggie phase but they wouldn't because I was a middle class white girl
- Pot makes people lazy and mellow. Not violent.
Trayvon was not looking for trouble that night. Zimmerman, however, was. He was on Ritalin and who knows what else.
- It's patently ludicrous that anyone thinks it's okay for someone to kill a person and then retroactively come up with reasons why it was okay.
It's also ludicrous that anyone would suggest death at the hands of a stranger is an acceptable punishment for smoking pot or getting into fights at school.
- Crazy how people are actually justifying Zimmerman killing this kid. His defenders are sick!
- No, they're not. Who knows what actually went down? The kid sounds like a little creep anyways, he would've grown up to beat on gays and possibly kill one, so why are you defending him?
- [quote]No, they're not. Who knows what actually went down? The kid sounds like a little creep anyways, he would've grown up to beat on gays and possibly kill one, so why are you defending him?
Okay, you're obviously trolling and I'm done with you.
- Not trolling, I'm saying you could be wrong in defending this little shit.
- Trayvon Martin is dead, asshole. Yes, you are a troll.
- I'm saying you're a racist, I know he's dead.
- The racism and hysteria is unbelievable in this thread. He was suspended from school and smoked pot? Those things make him a "threat" worthy of deadly force, when all he was doing was walking around a neighborhood at night?
Some truly fucked up people post here.
- Anyone who equates "pot-smoking teenager" with "violent criminal" is posting from a place so far removed from reality and relevancy that its hard not to laugh at them.
- Wait, so Zimmerman broke his own nose and bashed his own head on the sidewalk?
- [quote]he would've grown up to beat on gays and possibly kill one, so why are you defending him?
What mental illness is this? It's beyond simple paranoia; this poster has actually both pre-emptively and posthumously convicted someone of a crime they never lived to commit or be accused of, let alone convicted. Since Trayvon Martin didn't have a police record, a history of violence or any known feelings about homosexuality, it's clearly an insane assumption, yet it's blithely stated as fact and breezed past.
Seriously, what IS this level/brand of delusion? Is there a name for it or is it just garden-variety cuckoo-bonkers-cray-cray?
- In R267's photo, this Zimmerman dude looks like a gangbanger, just minus the tattoos. Total thug.
- Why not wait for a jury to decide?
Always amazes me how quick DL Is to pass sentence.
If GZ is acquitted the threads on DL will be timeless probably more titillating then Casey Anthonys.
- Self defense works two ways, moron @R282. Martin had fists, Zimmerman had a gun. Both used them, one died.
- I don't think anyone is saying ANYONE deserved to die AT ALL. I just think that GZ does deserve a FAIR trial - and as such, should be able to defend himself against a false narrative if AND I STRESS "IF" it is brought forth by the prosecution. That false narrative is that TM was an innocent child just out buying Skittles and Tea, when the truth is that he was far from such. Essentially a grown man with a background of school suspensions, kicked out of his Mother's home, criminal activity, drug use, and violence. He had tweeted about using weed and sizzurp, as well as distributing to others. Tweeted about organized fights and not drawing enough blood in his last. Those are the FACTS and do potentially speak to TMs state of mind that night. Nobody said that the kid deserved to die because of those facts, just that GZ deserves a FAIR trial where all the facts are present. The wild ass speculation on this thread is truly astounding - to the point that people who want to see all the relevant evidence, or call bullshit when someone spews a bunch of unfounded accusations that GZ was racist, are called racists themselves or accused of saying that TM deserved to die, etc. Could not be further from the truth. I wish this awful event had not happened, and I sympathize with TMs family and his community - but before I send someone away for Murder 2, I would like to consider ALL the relevant evidence. Not just that which the media has put forth. Do you guys NOT remember Duke Lacrosse? How DL was ready to hang those men based on media reports? You must be smarter than that by now.
- This is not a courtroom r285. We're commenting. You're commenting. Perhaps you should take your own advice and refrain from commenting at all.
r286 Martin didn't have any offensive wounds. He didn't punch Zimmerman. Did you see Z's photo on the night of the incident? His face was perfectly fine, save for a few abrasions.
- R288, I don't know what photos you were looking at, but the pics taken before the paramedics treated him showed a hell of a lot more than that. And Martin had abrasions on his knuckles, I would certainly call those offensive wounds.
- This photo:
- R282, nobody can verify those injuries as Zimmerman never went to a hospital.
An ambulance was initially dispatched for him, but was canceled due to his "injiuries" being so minor.
His life was never in danger.
You do realize that sometimes killers tell lies to justify their killing?
GZ has been arrested more than once; so has his wife. He's been caught in numerous lies about what happened that night. His word is dirt. You have to really stretch to find him credible.
Racists have no problem making that stretch.
- [quote]Essentially a grown man with a background of school suspensions, kicked out of his Mother's home, criminal activity, drug use, and violence.
Are you talking about Zimmerman?
Because Trayvon had just turned 17. By no one's account was he "essentially a grown man." He couldn't essentially vote or go to war. He wasn't even out of high school.
- R289, you might ...but the ME did not. He has more professional experience and training than you.
He saw the teenager's corpse first hand. You did not.
Did you know the funeral director saw a dried tear on Trayvon's face?
Do you care?
- [quote]the pics taken before the paramedics treated him
More predictable idiocy from the racists.
BEFORE they treated him? The paramedics took photos of him BEFORE treating him?
You actually believe that paramedics showed up at the scene of a fight and shooting and, before treating one of the assailants, actually POSED AND PHOTOGRAPHED HIM BEFORE TREATING HIM.
You are beyond stupid.
It's been reported that Zimmerman refused medical treatment at the scene three times. The photos you're referring to were taken by his private doctor after he left the police precinct for home. Photos and surveillance videos immediately after the fight show Zimmerman unbloodied, unbandaged and walking perfectly fine.
These are FACTS, not bullshit like the crap you pull out of your ass.
- If all else was equal, but Trayvon Martin was white, every one of his detractors in this thread would be focusing on George Zimmerman's ethnicity and how to keep illegals* off the streets.
*Yes, I know he's not an illegal, but facts and nuance aren't that side's strong suits.
- It lists an abrasion on his left ring finger on his autopsy report, or are you going to say that the ME doesn't have enough training now either?
- R294, the police took pics of him in the back of the squad car before the paramedics arrived, genius. Get your facts straight before you comment.
- The "abrasion" was smaller than an inch. Hardly an offensive wound.
GZ will be laughed out of court when he claims otherwise.
- And you're qualified how to make that distinction, R298?
- [quote] The youth had no offensive injuries. That means there is zero evidence that the youth illegally assaulted the man
That doesn't tell you much and it certainly doesn't rule out offensive actions or an illegal assault by the deceased. It would just be one factor the prosecution would raise. But you can easily take someone's head in your hands and hit or pund that head onto the ground/pavement without sustaining any injuries to your hands. There are other assaultive actions that can be taken that would not result in wounds to the aggressor.
Perhaps an even more aggressive act would be going for the gun. Whether that happened is something a jury has to decide. It is plausible that a fist or hand fight escalated into a life and death decision if upon discovering there was a gun on the defendant the deceased panicked, made movement to reach for the gun and there was a struggle over a gun.
Only prosecutors think that there is only one plausible theory as to what happened in any given case - that is THEIR theory - when in fact there could be many plausible scenarios with the same evidence.
- R299, yes.
And you, too, would be qualified if you only had common sense.
- [quote] Today was a smack down on the defense.
Defense attorneys are accustomed to being "smacked down" regularly. That's why they have to keep at it and keep pushing for what they believe they need for their case to be fairly heard. In fact if they don't keep pushing and raising the issue time and again, if there is a conviction, then the Court of Appeals may claim the issue wasn't essential enough to the defense.
Of course, the deceased's prior life and character is relevant to the case, e.g., the issue of who might have been the first aggressor. The defense needs to keep investigating for relevant information.
For instance if it can be shown that the deceased was interested in guns or planning to purchase a gun, etc, it could refute any prosecution argument that he would never go for a gun because he was inexperienced with them or afraid of them. Serious drug cases are frequently built on the combination of possession of marijuana and gun possession. The govt makes a big deal of that all the time in courts all over the country. Those persons are portrayed by the govt as dangerous and violent. Similarly it could be used by the defense here to show the same thing.
When investigating a case you have to look for everything and anything in the deceased's past. I realize many posters are inexperienced in this field but it is beyond laughable that you think it's impossible that a 17 year old is too young to have much of a past.
Perhaps I have too much knowledge about these things to still retain such an innocent view of the world. One of my first cases was a kid just turned 18 who I liked immensely - seemingly great kid with not that much wrong with him. I won his trial - a minor thing. Sadly he was shot to death a year later and to everyone's shock including his parents' he had been the hit man for a
drug gang with about 10 unsolved murders under his seemingly innocent belt. Gangs like to use juvies for their serious crimes.
Now don't go saying that I am accusing the deceased here of being a murderer. I am just saying that there can be a world a juvie can be involved in that his parents and authorities known nothing about and his friends won't talk about. It takes a lot of work to investigate properly. The defense is almost always at a disadvantage in this area.
Keeping an open mind and ensuring a fair trial is not always easy to do. I think it's clear there are those completely uninterested in these concepts. But for those who are, this could prove to be an interesting trial on many levels.
As for these pieces of evidence the defense, if they want them in it has to keep pushing for their inclusion. Whether they need more evidence to complete their proffers or whether they need to better argue their case I don't know since it's not my case. Sometimes you get a judge that just won't budge but you can't ever stop trying. In fact I hope the defense is ready to reargue this - even in written submissions to the court - at every opportunity before and during trial. I'm sure there will be plenty of openings at trial - from the opening argument of the prosecution to the testimony of the parents to all kinds of evidence and testimony - that will provide opportunity to reopen the arguments on this issue.
Trial is a war. This was just one battle.
- [quote]But you can easily take someone's head in your hands and hit or pund that head onto the ground/pavement without sustaining any injuries to your hands.
Yes, and apparently one can have his head repeatedly bashed into the sidewalk and not have any injuries requiring a hospital stay. Or even a visit.
GZ said he feared spending the rest of his life in diapers. But he never even got his head bandaged.
So...since you know so much about that night. Please explain how Trayvon strangled GZ yet got none of GZ's blood on him. Remember, GZ had a bloody nose.
Also, how could GZ have possible screamed for help while being choked like he claims?
You make a lot of allowances for GZ and none for the dead kid. Why do you think that is?
- R303, you just don't get it. The point is we don't know what happened that night. I don't know and you don't know. We are exploring possibilities.
You are simply keeping a closed mind to any possibility except the one you have imagined. That's fine for you. But for others with a more open mind and perhaps more life experiences the discussion allows for other possibilities.
How does a person's fear of injury correlate to the eventual injury? It doesn't.
How do you know if someone can scream or try to scream while someone is trying to strangle them or going for their throat? You have no idea what pressure was being exerted and how constant or strong the pressure was.
How do you know whether hospitalization is required for every head injury? It's not.
How do you know when the nose started bleeding and in what direction it bled while a person was on the ground?
If the deceased was on trial because he got hold of the gun and the defendant ended up shot or dead then I would be making similar arguments for him. See how it works?
The so called "allowances for the dead kid," as you put it, would be dealt with by anticipating the prosecution case and preparing a rebuttal of those arguments and points..
- Well - smackdown is not entirely accurate. Both sides have to "stick to the night of the incident" when it comes to TM - BOTH SIDES. The judge said that she would "reconsider" evidence that she initially banned if the prosecution were to open a door making it relevant. The defense was fine with that ruling - they didn't intend to go in with that evidence anyway (that would likely piss off a jury), they just wanted to shoot across the bow that they HAVE it and they will USE it if the prosecution "goes there." The defense is at a huge disadvantage going in, in that in the months leading up to the arrest, the press kept showing old photos of TM where he looked like an apple cheeked baby. The fact is that at the time of the incident, there was nothing to indicate to anyone who saw him from any distance that the young man was a minor. For all GZ knew that night, the kid could have been a thirty year old man. He had grown considerably since the time when that babyfaced photo was taken.
- Oh no, another bleeding heart judge with shit for brains.
- C'mon, r306, grow some fucking balls and say "liberal judge" like you want to. And if you have such disdain for liberals, then what the hell are you doing here on a GAY message board?
- [quote]How does a person's fear of injury correlate to the eventual injury?
If he feared Trayvon, then why did he FOLLOW him?
Logic is not your strong suit. Try to keep up.
- R308, and the judge, and all the rest of you LIEberals, are trying to use logic and facts with people who clearly don't know what to do with them.
They will throw anything and everything at you trying to divert attention from the facts. It is what they know because it is what they are taught via Fox News, Sarah Palin, Mitt Romney, and all the rest of their heroes.
Just let them squirm and squeal until the next outrageous incident they need to defend, which, unfortunately, should be any moment now.
- You are right, r309.
They have no proof whatsoever that supports GZ's claims.
All of the evidence points at murder.
Question for you, r309: why are they obsessed with photos of Trayvon? It's a big deal to them.
The fact that an unarmed youth was killed means nothing to them. But they are OUTRAGED by sweet photos of the dead youth.
I think the possibility that Trayvon was a decent kid who did not deserve to die is more than they can handle.
Such is the perils of blind hatred. I'm so glad I'm not racist like them. They are missing out. What a horrible way to go through life. I guess they recognize themselves in GZ; hence the unreasonable solidarity. They are very stubborn and closed minded.
- 'Not even Freud cares about your delusional dribblings.
Because your little fantasy is exactly that. Pure fiction."
I was merely expressing my opinion on the matter. YOU, on the other hand, believe yourself to have supernatural powers that enable you to know exactly what Zimmerman and Martin were thinking and doing at all times. You are obviously very, very mentally ill.
You are the delusional one, you braying ass.
- Here's a question. If Trayvon Martin believed himself to be stalked by a sinister, dangerous man, if he believed this man was a threat to his life, then WHY DIDN'T HE CALL THE POLICE? He had a phone in his hand; why didn't he call for help? Answer that, all you psychics who think you know everything about what happened.
- "If he feared Trayvon, then why did he FOLLOW him?"
Again. That's the question that needs to be hammered into the head of every jury member there. No one follows a person whom they are afraid of unless their intent is to "Get them" so to speak. To either capture them or seriously harm them.
Fight or flight. You either run away from what you are afraid of or you confront it and fight it. George chose to confront it, and he was not confronting Trayvon to have a reasonable discussion.
- Now that I think about it:
They hate to see sweet photos of Trayvon because in them they see thier own guilt, instead of his.
That explains their outrage. Nobody wants to be confronted by what they deliberately hide from themselves. They can't face it...so they don't.
They can't entertain, even for a moment, the possibility that Trayvon Martin was an innocent victim.
They can't seriously consider the slightest possibility that George Zimmerman is a bad guy who was up to no good.
Nope. America does not have a troubled history of race relations. That can't possibly come into play in this case. Not in little, old Sanford, Florida.
Nope. It's not likely that some psychopath might deliberately exploit the tragic "Stand Your Ground" law in Florida that, strangely enough, harmed the black community more than any other.
Certainly not the son of a magistrate judge, whose family friend is THE district attorney of good, ol Sanforf, FL.
A gun enthusiast who wanted to be a cop, but still wasn't finished with his criminal justice degree from his local community college. Even after...ten years.
A wannabe cop who would never be one. So he appointed himself "Neighborhood Watch Captain," and never went anywhere without his gun.
Which, by the way, violates the rules of Neighborhood Watch...but when has the wannabe loser ever cared about rules? He assaulted an undercover cop, and was arrested for that. An ex had a restraining order against him. He molested his younger cousin for ten years. He was told not to follow.
Perhaps the self-appointed Neighborhood Watch Captain was actually the neighborhood burglar. He needed a stooge to blame his crimes on.
Or maybe he just wanted to see what it was like to shoot someone to death. To hunt a real person and get away with it. To kill an effin punk...or "coon," whichever the case may be.
- R313, he never got the chance.
The event transpired in fewer than ten minutes.
Keep trying, Bubba.
- Why did he choose to ignore police orders and follow Trayvon R315?
- Because he felt like it, r316.
George Zimmerman does whatever the fuck he wants.
- Why didn't Trayvon just walk home? Are you saying that Zimmerman prevented Trayvon from walking home, before he shot him of course? That he held him against his will, and Trayvon had to fight him off?
I meant to address r312 in my post, instead of r313. It was a typo. Damn iPad.
Sorry for the confusion.
R315 for was for r312 not r313
- Yup, 318.
Not a fair fight.
GZ had a gun. 40 pounds and 10 years on Trayvon.
- R318, that question is just too logical for this crowd. What I would love to know is, based on the evidence as we know it - what exactly do DL readers think transpired? Just a simple timeline of what happened and how. That would be helpful to know in this debate.
Roughly, I would say:
GZ saw TM, a tall figure who he (GZ) perceived to be lurking around in the rain instead of trying to hastily get to where he was going to avoid the rain as one would expect. This raised suspicion in GM. There had recently been numerous break ins in the neighborhood. At the same time, TM was annoyed that he was being profiled.
GZ called 911 to report what he felt was suspicious activity. He was trying to keep sight of the person while giving his report. He was told not to pursue. He was asked for the address of where the suspicious person was so that the police could respond. He left his vehicle to ascertain the address. I think he lost sight of TM around this time.
TM was aware he was being observed and saw GZ moving towards him - thinking that GZ was following him on foot (when in fact GZ was just moving towards TM to get an address for the cops), perhaps even thinking that GZ was a physical threat, we'll never know. This pissed TM off further.
GZ was moving back to his vehicle to wait for the police to arrive. At some point (GZ once said the kid came out of some bushes, but I don't believe that) TM approached GZ. Pissed off, TM asked GZ what was his problem, popped GZ in the face, and knocked him to the ground - the gun fell out of his pocket. He (TM) then proceed to get on top of GZ and shoved his head back, causing the scrapes/scratches on GZs head. At this point GZ starts screaming. TM sees the gun and most likely fearing for his OWN life, tries to get it. GZ was able to recover the gun first and shot. We know the gun was not pressed to TMs body - the forensics show that TMs sweatshirt was hanging free from his body, by gravity, as he was on top of GZ.
I think they were both in tremendous fear for their lives during the struggle for the gun. Based on their state of mind during the struggle, whichever one got the gun and used it first could have legitimately claimed self defense. It just so happens that GZ got to the gun first.
Now, before ripping into my theory, which I welcome, but first... could someone please post your theory on how this is murder 2 on GZ? I appreciate it - and if we can keep the flames down it could be an interesting debate.
- You don't know that the defendant "followed" the deceased. You are making assumptions.
- R322, the defendant told dispatch that the "suspect" ran away.
Also, Trayvon was killed practically in his own back yard. He was closer to his destination than to the killer's truck.
The killer had no reason to be behind the victim's townhouse. His truck, where he originally said he would meet police, was on the street. Not behind the town houses where the victim was killed.
Also, the killer lived on the other side of the neighborhood.. He had no business being behind Trayvon's house.
Logic is your friend. The killer followed the youth.
- R321, that's pretty much how I've seen it for a while now.
- I googled George Zimmerman crime scene map and found this. I can't vouch for it or its creator. I just offer it up for discussion.
I've never been to that site before so don't know what it's about.
- A thug, went to the store to buy sizzurp ingredients. Thug was not the 12 year old saint portrayed by the media. Thug killed by a non black. If this was black on black it would never have reached the news.
- R326, thank you for not concealing your sickness. I appreciate that it's right there for everyone to see.
- Hi R310. You are very thoughtful and I am both sorry and glad that this troubles you so. I completely understand.
I think your question about why they are so obsessed with the photo is a bit complicated as you have suggested, but I will give it a try.
First, I think a lot of it is because this photo was the one which was released immediately for all the world to see. Perception is often reality and seen as an advantage. So by seeing this photo so early, many people quickly saw their own brother or son or high school friend, and not someone who "must have deserved" to be hurt.
The sweet looking photo created what they felt was a "false" portrayal, and they played the victim card, instead of being concerned with what actually happened.
Second, this fine looking boy does not fit their perception, especially of a young African-American male.
They can't defend their various out of control beliefs if the public is going to see this 17 yo as a person who is real and good and who could be anyone (hunted by their vigilante hero).
That is a start as I see it, but there are endless and various reasons people come up with to defend racism or no-limit gun ownership or any other number of their fixations.
Oh, and as someone else said, this IS Florida after all. Nothing surprises me there, or Texas.
- R327 It hurts because it is true.
- Those scrapes on Zimmerman's face are laughable. I've gotten worse trying to wrestle my cat into his carrier.
- Doesn't r321 ravings about what allegedly transpired that night make your head hurt? This must be what it's like to be inside the mind of an unhinged lunatic-fantasies at odds with reality, the mind clearly on the wane,seeing lies in truth and truth in lies. And of course it would find kinship with the likes Zimmerman-,another contemptible and unlovable creature who lived in a world of fantasies. In this fantasy world inhabited by r321,Zimmerman, ET AL,you can be anything want-a dark skinned so called man of indeterminate race can be white and no longer mistaken for a dirty wetback! A person who was a worthless failure his entire life can now envision himself a wannabe cop-he can even have a badge and gun and call himself a neighborhood watch 'captain'! Why not? In the land of fantasies and make believe you can be anything want and everyone will believe it! Why, in this fantasy world you can even murder unarmed citizens and get away with it!
But back here in real world, we are supposed to be governed by laws. In the real world, when you shoot and kill an unarmed citizen, no matter what race, age or gender- you have to answer for it. Michael Vick served more time for killing DOGS. George Zimmerman IS NOT above the law, despite what he and his apologists believe.
If r321, ET AL want to continue living in that bizarre fantasy world where a so called man with a gun can instigate a confrontation with an unarmed person, murder them,and then be able to walk scott free, then so be it. You can't argue with a crazy person. But those of us who deal in reality and fact know there is only one possible and just resolution to this sad story-put Zimmerman away for good so that he can't murder anyone else.
- There, there, r329. Everything is going to be ok. *hugs*
The truth shall set you free. Freedom does not hurt. Snap out of it.
- So R331 - No theory/timeline on what actually happened that night? Just ad hominem attacks on people sharing their theories? This shows you HAVE no theory. Go scream your accusations from the mountain top. But, until you can offer a rebuttal theory/timeline, please say off the thread. Your post offered zero ideas, just the same old blah blah blah that makes up 95% of this thread.
- If the defendant did not know that the victim was a violent thug, he cannot introduce evidence that the victim was a violent thug in support of his claim of self-defense.
The only reason his lawyer released Trayvon's photos and texts is because they want the public to believe that Trayvon is a violent thug who deserved to die.
Judge Nelson should sanction O’Mara for filing the motion for sanctions in bad faith.
- [quote] If the defendant did not know that the victim was a violent thug, he cannot introduce evidence that the victim was a violent thug in support of his claim of self-defense.
R334, a defendant CAN use such evidence if the victim is dead. It can be used as evidence, for instance, to suggest who was the first aggressor even if the defendant was unaware of prior incidents of violence by the victim or unaware of the victims reputation for violence.
It may also be used for other purposes than to show the deceased acted in accord with that pertinent character trait. For instance to explain motive or lack of accident, etc.
- [quote]Also, Trayvon was killed practically in his own back yard. He was closer to his destination than to the killer's truck.
Trayvon did not have a back yard, he did have a place he stay at. Big difference.
- HLN talking heads said that there will only be six people on the jury. Is this normal? I've never heard of it before.
Given that the county that the trial will take place in is over 60% white, I don't feel good things for the Martin family.
- R331 is spot on.
- I disagree, r337.
The Newtown Massacre changed everything. Never before have we seen such anti-NRA momentum. The country no longer has the stomach to tolerate men shooting boys to death. And legally, Trayvon Martin was not an adult. There is no legal definition for "almost" an adult. He was a youth. The legal definition is "child."
I live in Florida...Sanford is practically in my own backyard (eye roll at r336).
I have lived here most of my life, and things have changed dramatically, especially in the last few years. I have seen three teenaged interracial couples this week. When I was in high school, that was rare. But now black girls date white boys and black boys date white girls and black girls date Hispanic girls and so forth.
In fact, I would venture to say that the majority of families today are of mixed race. Even the Bush family has what Poppy infamously called, "brown ones."
The younger folks are waking up to racism. Psychos like Zimmerman are relics of a bygone area.
- What's relevant in George Zimmerman case?
May 29, 2013|By Sun Sentinel Editorial Board, By Sun Sentinel Editorial Board
Ask yourself a couple of questions.
Does it really matter what Trayvon Martin was texting to his friends?
Does it really matter if he got into past fights while in school?
Does it really matter if he was suspended from school?
Ask yourself — is any of that relevant when we are talking about an unarmed teenager being shot and killed by George Zimmerman while walking in a gated community in Sanford, Fla., on Feb. 26, 2012? Does it have any real relevance to the tragedy that occurred that night?
Judge Debra Nelson did two wise things this week concerning Zimmerman's trial on second-degree murder charges in the shooting death of Martin.
She said the defense team can't mention those previously mentioned texts and school incidents during opening statements, but said some of that evidence might be admitted during trial if it could be authenticated.
She also rejected a defense request for a delay, ruling that the long-awaited trial will start on June 10.
It's about time.
Time for the truth to come out. Time for the relevant evidence — and not text messages sent to friends — to be discussed in open court. Time to find out who was the aggressor, and who felt threatened. Time to hear what actually happened that night, and why Zimmerman felt he had to shoot Martin.
Throwing Hail Marys against a wall — like the text messages taken from Martin's phone, like the suspension from school — comes across as a stalling tactic, and the judge smartly didn't buy it. At least for now.
Not that Zimmerman's defense team didn't try.
They posted online photos and text messages from Martin's phone, including texts about pot smoking and being ordered to move out of his home by his mother. The defense also says Martin's phone had photos of what appeared to be marijuana plants and a .40-caliber handgun.
Again we ask — is any of that relevant to the actual incident in which Martin was shot to death? Does it matter of Trayvon Martin wasn't an Eagle Scout?
The shooting gained international attention, brought all sorts of nationwide media to central Florida, and caused emotions to flare for months. It raised the specter of racism. It brought renewed debate to Florida's controversial Stand Your Ground law, and plenty of discussion about self-defense. It caused analysis and over-analysis of what wearing a hoodie really means. It caused protest marches and remembrances. It caused the release of photos of injuries to Zimmerman's head that may or may not have come from whatever altercation took place.
It is important to remember that George Zimmerman is innocent in the eyes of the law, and his legal team should have every right to prove that what he did that night was justified. That's done with actual evidence from the incident, witness accounts and police statements.
We should be hearing soon what all that evidence really means.
"This case," prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda said in court, "has dragged on long enough."
- um, no, R238. R331 is basically just a screed like his earlier posts. He's been way too emotional and unable to see beyond is kneejerk reactions for a long time now. He isn't capable of a thoughtful discussion on this topic.
- What he said in that post was spot on, regardless of what you think of him, or his past posts.
- R340 article / OpEd is clueless. Yes, those things matter and are relevant in a murder trial. This writer should play at being something else because that is not an intelligent legal analysis. It's a whiny "let's get this show on the road and fair trial be damned" attitude. Having grown up in those parts I am not surprised. It's more interested in what it perceives as harm to the image of Central Florida and that means money.
- This is going to be the longest DL thread EVER.
- R343 = classic projection...because you, sir, are the clueless "one."
It's not by a "writer." It was written by an editorial board of the Ft. Lauderdale newspaper.
Ft. Lauderdale isn't a global capital, but it's certainly more sophisticated that Sanford. I value their integrity, thoughtfulness and experience over your racist opinion.
- Zimmerman prosecutor withheld evidence.
- Holy shit, what are they feeding him??
- Looking forward to Sharpton's interview with omara tonight.
- R346 is trying to make it look like that'd a headline from the Miami herald.
It is not. It's just a claim by the defense.
Omara was given the raw data.
- Not surprising in the least, R346. They've been withholding evidence from the get-go. Withholding or dragging their feet in turning it over. The defense has asked for the judge to fine the State for this ongoing misconduct, as it is causing the defense to spend unnecessary hours (billing) chasing down evidence that should have been simply provided to them. The defense was unsuccessful in that hearing. The judge found for the prosecution (this is before the news that evidence WAS withheld came out, per R346 link.)
R250, you are incorrect (imagine that). GZ was never arrested three times. There were three charges made for the one arrest. It is not uncommon for police to make multiple charges in an arrest, hoping one will stick. Apparently, GZ was intoxicated and allegedly shoved an officer when the officer was questioning a friend of his. Of course, if you brush up against an office or touch them, or look at them funny, you can get charged with assault. Just watch any of the dozens upon dozens of videos of cops tazing, beating up, arresting bystanders for simply video recording them.
Will someone please put forth a theory/timeline on what they think happened that night based on the known evidence? I would love to hear how DL posters think that night's events unfolded. But in 340+ posts, not one single theory that finds GZ guilty of Murder 2. C'mon guys!
- R345, since you know nothing about me you can lay off the racist insults.
Editorials are almost always written by one person and then approved by the board. So spare me your nitpicking.
Any editorial that advocates moving ahead with a trial even if the defense needs more time or is fighting to make it a fair trial is irresponsible and ignorant of the law at best. The moaning in the editorial is about how this trial is giving Florida a bad name and then incredulously dismisses the concerns of a defense team fighting to make use of relevant evidence in a murder trial. THAT is beyond clueless. It is brainless and hardly sophisticated.
I have spent my career defending those accused of crimes and fighting for their rights against those who think these matters are trifling and think we need to just get on with the show. Almost all my clients are African Americans and have been for the past two decades so I don't need you lecturing me on civil rights. But anyone who picks a side to defend or support based on race is racist in my eyes. Practicing in D.C. is a hell of a lot more real world and legally sophisticated than Ft Lauderdale so again spare me your narrow view of the world.
R345 et al, your posts on the other hand are full of misinformation and unfounded supposition and your thinking is clouded by anger. Just one example of your misrepresentations of fact:
[quote] Trayvon was killed practically in his own back yard. He was closer to his destination than to the killer's truck
The killer had no reason to be behind the victim's townhouse. His truck, where he originally said he would meet police, was on the street. Not behind the town houses where the victim was killed.
All photographs, witness statements, and other evidence puts the deceased no where near his father's backyard. In fact he was closer to the truck. Also see mapped out diagram I linked upthread
The deceased father was staying at the house on the bottom of the T and reliable witness statements put the argument as starting at the top of the T and as it progressed moving down a short distance - still very far from the father's house or backyard. The deceased's body was found near the top of the T.
So despite your incorrect statements, the fight and the body was nearer the truck than the father's house.
You were also incorrect about evidence allowed in self-defense cases.
As is often the case, this hearing did not result in quite a ruling as portrayed in this thread. Some of this material may very well come into evidence once it can be authenticated. This is a typical ruling whereby you can't mention certain evidence in opening statements but they may be used at trial once a foundation is made. If anyone wants a strong factual blog about this case, Jeralyn Merritt has one. She is an excellent defense attorney out of Denver and a good person. Her blog is at the link
- R131, you said:
[quote]Zimmerman has said a lot of things that turned out to be lies. Why do you think his bail was revoked? Once a person is caught in a lie, everything else they say can be disregarded.
The star witness for the prosecution was caught in a lie under oath (a.k.a. perjury). Does your rule apply to her as well? Should the jury disregard her testimony at trial?
- Um not really r352...that's just troll spin.
- Thank you, r342. And I would also like to ad that r321's insane diatribe about what happened that night is longer than the actual three minute exchange between Trayvon and his killer. But again, you can't argue with a crazy nut who actually professes to know what went on in Trayvon's mind that night! Smdh...If r321, ET AL, know so damn much about what happened that night with so much detailed information, then why the hell are they posting it on a website anonymously?! Get your ass down to the nearest police station and help your hero Zimmerman out!
But of course r321, ET AL know nothing except the make believe fan boy fiction that a lonely grotesque like Zimmerman can now envision himself a hero doing "God's work"(his actual quote!) See? Crazy people do have kinship with one another!
Now, I'd like to refresh people's memories about that picture that proported to show Zimmerman's 'injuries'allegedly at the hands of his murder victim. The photo was released AFTER the world saw video of George Zimmerman walking into the police station looking very robust-certainly not like a man who had allegedly been in the fight of his life! He was supposed to have a broken,busted nose but we all saw that wasn't the case. But the photograph was released not by the police or any EMT's(we know that Zimmerman repeatedly refused medical treatment)but was heavily touted as an "ABC News Exclusive!" But I have a just a few questions: Since this was a murder scene, how did someone other that a police officer, have time to pose Zimmerman for a few photos without going unnoticed? Remember, Zimmerman was supposedly in the fight of his life, so how did he have time to pose for a photo during a murder scene surrounded by cops and eyewitnesses who live in the area? And why has ABC refused to say who took the photo just seconds after Trayvon's murder?
Everything about this case is rotten to the core...
- The bottom line is, in Florida, this law states that if you feel threatened you can use deadly force. Feeling threatened is subjective, thus the problem with this law. There's really no way they can find Zimmerman guilty of the killing. This is a dog and pony show for the outraged public. Had there been no media coverage, there wouldn't have been a trial. Zimmerman had been let go to begin with.
- Not so R355. Not so.
- And this:
- So far, the Zupporters here have a pattern in this thread of misleading and posting half truths as well as personal insults against the victim, etc.
No answers to the questions like how come Trayvon had no offensive injuries or blood on his hands.
At least they can admit GZ followed TM.
But they have provided not one solid, indisputable fact that supports the killer's side of the story.
So far, here is GZ's defense: his neighborhood had previously been robbed by black men. So on the way to the store on a Sunday evening he sees a black male "acting suspiciously" in the rain and called the police. GZ leaves his car to read a street sign. The kid jumps out of the bushes and proceeds to viciously slam GZs head in the ground and then choke him, and GZ has no option but to kill in response.
The entire event transpired in fewer than seven minutes.
Never mind that Trayvon was killed nowhere near a street sign or even GZ's truck.
Never mind that Trayvon had no blood on his hands despite choking the man with the bloody nose.
Never mind that there are only three streets in that neighborhood (and GZ didn't know which one he was on).
Never mind there are so bushes in that area.
Explain how the killer begged for help while being viciously strangled.
Come on. Be reasonable.
Trayvon was not a thug. He was college bound and close to his family. Unlike GZ he had never been arrested.
Even Detective Serino, the only homicide detective on the scene, told GZ that Trayvon was a goof kid with a future.
- *Good kid
It's obvious that Zimmerman is an unbalanced person who had no business with a gun.
- And forget, r358, Trayvon's last words according to Zimmerman and his fan boys was "you got me!" even thought the Trayvon's terrified screams of death ended with Zimmerman's gun blast!
Another question: why do racist fanboy's love and worship ugly grotesques like Zimmerman, Rush Limbaugh,Bill O Reilly, Karl Rove,ET AL? All of them are questionable characters and most have had run ins with the law. Is it because they're so unattractive and repulsive that they have followers with the exact same traits-misery loves company,if you will?
- Because they identify with those cretins.
They need irrational defense because what happened was irrational. Their defense seems strong, convincing, and without a doubt -- because of all their doubting underneath.
- R354 - I think you need some help with your vocabulary, and a mirror. Please see link below.
Still no theories on what happened that night? How it all went down? Not a single theory/timeline that shows GZ guilty of Murder 2?
- R362, that's all you got? Bait for a flame war???
R358 has a helpful list of facts damning the killer's story.
Question: why does the killer have so much credibility to you? We all know that if someone is capable of shooting another human being to death, then they are certainly capable of lying about it. Makes sense, doesn't it? And it's too convenient that the only witness is dead.
And GZ has already been caught telling lies. Does the fact that his wife was arrested for lying under oath mean nothing to you?
GZ molested his own little cousin for ten years. Why do you hold him in such high esteem?
Seriously. Why are you so invested in this man's fate?
He's on multiple prescriptions for mental disorders. He had been arrested multiple times. Trust: he is not a good guy. Why do you take him at his word? Without any evaluation of the facts?
Are you being paid?
- This is topsy-turvy land. Rational discussion/theories are "diatribe" and ad hominem attacks are somehow rational... Very strange. And the most bizarre thing is that people can only attack GZ's character (which is very shady, to be certain) but no one can put forth a simple list of how that night unfolded. You can't convict someone for having a past, or for the background of their friends and family - there must be hard facts and circumstantial evidence to support the charge for the alleged crime that occurred. Thus far, nada on what happened that night. I give. I thought it might be interesting, but this is going nowhere. Boring retread of the same old accusations over and over... You have no theory - you only know that GZ is guilty "somehow" but you don't know how...
- A boy was stalked and killed for no reason. Zimmerman is nothing more then filth. I hope he goes to prison and is tortured to death.
No. I don't mean tortured to death...I guess I mean, killed quickly with a sharp instrument.
- R365 we don't know if he'll go to prison. My gut feeling is that he'll be acquitted.
However if he is sent to prison I would bet his fellow Latino inmates will protect him. There is a large divide between the blacks and Latinos in the hokey. He may even be considered a hero.
- The Zimmerfans want to make it look like the killer is the victim.
Look how much poor Georgie has suffered since being forced to kill that unarmed, teenaged, skinny..."punk." Alas, it was God's Will. What burden that reluctant hero suffers. Like a war wound.
At least Trayvon didn't get away, right Zimbots? Because, you know, "they" always do.
It's still not clear what the "punk" was trying to "get away from." I mean, other than the psycho following him with a gun.
Yup...poor little Georgie. Damn all those cute phots of Trayvon Martin smiling and holding a baby. Trayvon was a punk who tried to get away from him. Why can't anyone outside of the NRA get that?
- "you can't convict someone for having a past..."
Well then, r362,r364-you should take your own advice. This coming from the same person who posted that insane DIATRIBE about Trayvon's alleged past transgressions! "Fizzies?" "fight clubs?" WTF?
You really aren't well, are you? Like r363 asked-why are you so invested in proving Zimnerman's alleged innocence? Are you a family member? His gay brother, a former lover? If you're just a stranger/fanboy of that low life child murderer then I implore you to seek help!! There are a lot a free clinics and outreach programs for sick people like you, I can post some links if you like. Because there is no way in hell that anyone could defend that sick gun toting nut and unless you are related to him or are mentally ill.
My own personal opinion is that you are some down low closet case(paralegal?) working with the Zimmerman team to test out your outrageous,ludicrous, bizarre and inflammatory tales about what happened that night and to see if a naive and clueless public will bite. To taint the jury pool by blanketing this and other well known sites like DL with lies. If so, then they are not paying you nearly enough for selling what's left of your soul and for coming across like a deranged Zimmerman groupie!
- "To taint the jury pool"?
LOL! What kind of ego does it take to think their posts at DL are read by more than just a tiny niche readership?
We are trying to have a rational discussion about an upcoming trial. That is clearly beyond some peoples' ability. They just want to name-call and spout irrational screeds to shout down their fellow posters. Calling people racists because they are trying to look at the evidence objectively doesn't cut it.
One's past and character CAN matter and can be used for various purposes at trial - how and why it can be used is dependent on the person the evidence is to be used against (a witness, a complaining witness - here the deceased, or the defendant) - there are different evidentiary rules and supporting case law for each different player in a trial.
HOWEVER, one's past is not enough to base a conviction on. That amounts to rank speculation. The government must also have evidence concerning the event in question to convict. Not speculation. Not angry opinions. Evidence.
In self-defense the prosecution must not only prove each and every element of the charged offenses beyond a reasonable doubt - the prosecution must also DISPROVE self-defense beyond a reasonable doubt. I don't see that happening here.
It's a difficult concept for jurors to grasp because the burden of proving guilt never shifts to the defendant - not even when the defendant takes the stand to testify. Even if jurors don't believe a testifying defendant that is not enough to convict because there still must be proof beyond a reasonable doubt of the specific charges presented by the prosecution. And if you can't decide which side to believe or if you believe both sides are lying then it's an acquittal. Though I have talked to juries who claimed they were ready to acquit until the defendant took the stand and they ended up disliking him or thinking he was a liar. Technically, legally, that's not how it should work but that's life and that IS how it works some time.
I think the physical evidence and the evidence by impartial witnesses who heard and saw segments of the event will help the defense most.
- [quote]You don't know that the defendant "followed" the deceased. You are making assumptions.
Of course we know he was being followed r322/369 etc. GW says himself that he was following TM on his call to the police and was advised to stop.
Also, the link to the crime scene photos you posted doesn't support GW's account. If he were actually looking for an address to give to police as he claimed he'd have been on the actual road just steps away from his truck where the houses face and addresses are CLEARLY posted. Instead the shooting happened on the walking path behind the houses where no addresses are posted. How did GW end up back there if he were not following TM. Did he fall into a worm hole?
I'd also like to know where those bushes that TM supposedly jumped out of to ambush GW are because all I see are at most waist high decorative shrubs directly against the homes. The view down the walking path is clear and I can't see any way GZ wouldn't have been able to see TM as he walked toward him as opposed to walking away from him as he would have been if he'd simply stepped away from his car to check an address.
- To quote a state senator from Louisiana: "Some decks have only one card and that is the race card."
- You sure would have to look to Louisiana to hear that kind of bullshit.
- A Louisiana state senator would say that, r371.
More than 1000 people died in Louisiana from a hurricane.
They are outlawing abortion there.
- And they broke into my shed!
- r371 reveals the real reason why some people support the admitted killer.
Racists want to pretend that black people were not the only Americans to land on these shores in chains.
They want to pretend that some white men in Oklahoma did not murder three black men immediately following the arrest of the admitted killer of Trayvon Martin.
They want to pretend that slavery, the civil war and lynchings never occurred.
Or are still occurring.
Even Clarence Thomas can see that the unjustifed killing of Trayvon Martin is a modern day lynching.
- A sophisticated lynching, with the help of local authorities & SYG, is still a lynching.
- The problem remains–Z’s narrative cannot be told unless he takes the stand. And if he takes the stand he loses, because no matter what he says on the stand, it contradicts something that he is on the record as saying.
- Trayvon’s body and the shell casing were found 40 feet away from the T-intersection where the defendant claimed he was attacked.
He lied about where he shot Trayvon because he wanted to conceal that he went after Trayvon instead of returning to his vehicle.
It’s all so simple and obvious. Nothing complicated about this case at all.
- Excellent interview by Al Sharpton of the defense atty. Mark O'Mara.
- R378, R377, R376, R375, R373, R358, R349, R348, R345 et al, I see there is nothing complicated for you except the facts.
W11, who lives at the northwest corner of the T, is certain that what she heard was a verbal exchange started very near the top of the T, which turned to a scuffle, moved to or past her patio door and turned to screams for help. W6, her next-door neighbor, agrees that he first heard the altercation north of his residence and moving south.
That supports Zimmerman's version of events.
Zimmerman was already out of his truck when he was advised not to follow the suspect. He had also been asked twice IIRC where the suspect was or was heading. To answer that question required that Zimmerman, at the least, walk to the top of the T to see if the suspect was still visible and where he was headed or what house he went into. The suspect was not visible which leads to the question of where was the suspect. Where was the suspect from then until the confrontation at the top of the T.
It is certainly conceivable he could have made it home by the time Zimmerman walked to a point he could see down the length of the T. He had run past Zimmerman's truck and Zimmerman did not hang up his phone for a full 2 minutes which was plenty of time to get to the bottom of the T which was approximately 320 feet further away from where the body was found (using the 40 feet below the top of the T as a yardstick).
So where was the deceased during all that time? The fact that he appears later at the top of the T suggests he never headed for his home. IMO he stayed near the top of the T for whatever reason and then appeared to Zimmerman which is when it seems the confrontation began.
- Can you imagine some nut with a gun deciding to stalk you while you're just walking home from the store?
I don't support this behavior at all and hope Zimmerman is found guilty and given the maximum sentence.
- The racists apparently have a lot riding on this--twisting anything and everything to try to defend Zimmerman. Attacking undisputed and appatent facts but presenting nothing but conjecture of their own.
Sad commentary highlighting their deludional, feeble minds.
- Insulting people and calling people racists because they don't agree with you does not help to support your arguments. Try looking at the evidence and using some reasoning. You may still come to a different opinion but at least it's not name calling.
- "Zimmerman was already out of his truck when he was advised not to follow the suspect"
Trayvon Martin was a not a "suspect", except in the mind of the Zimmerman creature.
Your increasingly desperate attempts to shill for Zimmerman are leading you further and further into "loon with an agenda" territory...
- [quote]So where was the deceased during all that time? The fact that he appears later at the top of the T suggests he never headed for his home. IMO he stayed near the top of the T for whatever reason and then appeared to Zimmerman which isy Zimme when it seems the confrontation began.
One might also ask why Zimmerman continued to stand at the top of the T during all that time rather than return to his car as instructed to do by police.
It makes no sense for Martin to reach the safety of his home only to return to attack Zimmerman. What would make sense is that Martin wasn't sure if he could safely make it home so he hid in the first break between the townhomes waiting for Zimmerman to leave. Only Zimmerman showed no sign of leaving or giving up his pursuit.
IF Martin's intent were to ambush and attack Zimmerman there's no reason he would not have done it immediately. What I see here was a
scared kid who rightly had no clue why this nut was following him, hid for a time and eventually felt his only options were to confront the guy or risk being chased down for god only knows what reason.
- [quote]What I see here was a scared kid who rightly had no clue why this nut was following him, hid for a time and eventually felt his only options were to confront the guy or risk being chased down for god only knows what reason.
I see that, too, as I'm sure most reasonable adults do.
(By reasonable, I mean that they don't secretly believe that all black people are vicious savages who will rip your head off in an instant for no reason. )
Apparently, a certain segment of our society (the Zimmerman clan) thinks that black people are violent, and extra precautions are required when one *of them* walks down your street.
GZ is on at least two different psych meds. Perhaps when he looked at Trayvon, he saw al Qaeda? Regardless, his delusions do not a defense make.
Don't bother with r380. The Zupporters love to lead us down primrose paths of meaningless distractions. Nothing in his posts address the irrefutable, hard evidence that is stacked against the killer. It is just an obvious attempt at obfuscation.
Team Trayvon is indefatigable. I am literally looking forward to this trial. It's been a long time coming. It took 44 days to get GZ arrested. He was certain ihe would never get arrested, and even felt betrayed by the police when it finally did happen.
By then, he had already spoken too much. There are a wealth of transcripts and video from his interviews with police after the kill. They are riddled with inconsistencies.
- R384, please get lost and take your mindless insults with you. You contribute nothing here.
R385, the idea that the deceased was scared to go to his father's home is a plausible theory. There may have been reasons unrelated to the defendant that he wanted to stay out of his dad's house for a bit more time. Though he had plenty of time to make it home if that was his immediate destination - he was running the last time the defendant says he saw him while the defendant was still in his truck. Running home could have been done in 30 seconds.
The defendant had been asked where the suspect (both the defendant and the dispatcher were referring to a suspect) was heading and to find out the street he told the police later that he walked on the walkway from his truck parked at the start of the walkway on Twin Trees, went past the top of the T toward the east and proceeded to the street in front of him to get that street name - Retreat View Circle which is the street the deceased's dad lived on. So with the names of the streets on either side of the T he could give an accurate location.
The defendant says that on his way back to the truck he is at the top of the T walkway when he is confronted by the deceased. That is where the defendant's keys are found (at the top of the T) and where a number of ear witnesses put the start of the confrontation. That location is not near a break between the buildings. It suggests to me that the deceased may have been hiding between the breaks in the buildings, as you suggest, and when he saw the defendant on the Top walkway heading back to his truck he emerged from the break from some undetermined direction and confronted the defendant. Otherwise how does he get from one of the breaks which are approx. 80 ft down and a yard's depth to the west of the start of the confrontation?
If the deceased was hiding between the break in the buildings on the T it doesn't explain how he got to the top of the T where the verbal altercation started. Or even how his body got to where it was found.
- Trayvon Martin was born in 1995.
To those of us who are not racist, he was "green" behind the ears.
1995 wasn't that long ago. He really was just a kid
- [quote] (both the defendant and the dispatcher were referring to a suspect)
The word suspect appears nowhere in the transcript of the phone call.
- [quote]The defendant had been asked where the suspect was heading
- Suspect is short hand for "Suspicious person" which is what the defendant was reporting.
- [quote] The defendant had been asked where the suspect was heading
Yes he had. After the defendant said the "suspicious person" ran by his vehicle he was asked which way he was going and then the defendant got out of his truck parked near the cut and started walking east toward Retreat View Circle.
- "Suspect" = suspect, r391
Just because some deranged psycho with a gun deems someone a suspect does not make that person a suspect.
Only LEOs have the right to make that determination. And GZ was just a wannabe who would never be.
More accurately, he was a thug: multiple arrests, restraining orders, being fired from jobs, molesting his own cousin, kicking a neighbor's dog, etc.
- The Newtown Massacre will have a chilling effect on this case.
Americans are finally standing up to the NRA.
And the racism expressed by the Zupporters is plain for everyone to see. Thanks for the assist, kkkids.
Trayvon Martin, I hope, will be the last American to be lynched.
- "R384, please get lost and take your mindless insults with you. You contribute nothing here"
In a single post, I contributed more to this thread than your endless, murderer-justifying drivel...
- For the purposes of this event and these phone calls he is the "suspicious person" referred to by the defendant in the phone calls.
In a self defense case the state of mind of the defendant is highly relevant. That the defendant considered him a suspicious person (or suspect) matters.
- "Trayvon Martin, I hope, will be the last American to be lynched."
He wasn't "lynched", you insufferable asshole. God, you're tedious. Also very mentally ill.
- The Boston thing also will influence people r394 - Newtown is way in the background at this point and it wasn't terrorism. Terrorism is much more in the forefront of VOTERS.
- R395/384, If you're not interested in discussing the evidence and taking the case seriously then go somewhere else where mindless kneejerk reactions are the norm like, oh say, freerepublic, where name calling and stereotyping is how they argue their points.
Don't even kid yourself that you are any different than those neanderthals.
And you better pray you never get arrested and accused of a crime since you clearly don't believe in the right to a defense.
- [quote]Suspect is short hand for "Suspicious person" which is what the defendant was reporting.
You claimed at R187 that [italic]both the defendant and the dispatcher were referring to a suspect[/italic]. Now you're changing that to "suspicious person"?
The word suspicious was used exactly once, by George Zimmerman, at the outset of the call. Not by the dispatcher at all.
You don't have to post misinformation. You can read the transcript of the phone conversation and you can listen to it on youtube.
- R399 - you keep whining about how the "evidence" will exonerate Zimmerman - yet you describe the DEAD, UNARMED teenager as "the suspect"?
- Why would Zimmerman need to leave his vehicle to find a street sign? They put them on street corners where they're visible to motorists.
Something isn't right with this story.
- Why would Zimmerman even need to see a street sign?
There were only three streets in his neighborhood and he's supposedly a neighborhood watch leader. He didn't know the names of the three streets he was presumably watch leader over?
Zimmerman doesn't say anything to the dispatcher about finding a street sign during the call. The claim that he was looking for a street sign came later. During the call, however, he did state that he was following Martin.
- R369,r380,r383,387-are you still here, Zinmerman fanboy? Have they extended your computer priviledges at Shady Pines mental facility?
As r370,r375,r378,r381,ET AL,have demonstrated by their thoughtful and insightful posts,clearly you are not ready for prime time. This is a discussion for ADULTS-people who have looked at the case and examined the facts carefully and have come to the only possible conclusion:put that crazy, deluded child stalking killer George Zimmerman away for life! This would not only be the right thing to do,but send a message to other would be vigilantes and killers that good society DOES NOT let the mentally unbalanced-like Zimmerman(and you,apparently)shot unarmed people just because you don't like the way they look. To do so otherwise would give taciturn approval that its okay to shoot innocent children. A would be rapist could stalk his victim, murder her then claim self defense because she fought back! But the thought of that really seems to excite you, doesn't it?
Run along now, and continue to fellate yourself with those Zimmerman playing cards- no doubt hand made from the multitude of never ending mugshots taken of that murderous beast you keep defending. Of all the murderers to defend, couldn't you at least find one that was attractive? I mean, maybe we could understand your slavish devotion if he looked like say, Henry Cavill. Still a killer but we would get it. But Zimmerman? Ewwww...
If I'm going to let myself be dragged to hell for defaming a dead kid and causing pain to family, at least I'd like a handsome escort! You really are scraping the bottom of the barrel- in every respect.
- A black boy walks in his neighborhood, so Zimmerman has to kill him?
I want Zimmerman to suffer for a very long time.
- [quote] During the call, however, he did state that he was following Martin.
That was after he was out of his car. And AFTER that he was told we don't need you to do that and he said okay.
There is no evidence that he continued to follow the deceased after that point.
If some of you think that by calling people names and slurs you can shut the discussion down you can forget it. If you've looked at the evidence as you claim then you need to relook at it. You aren't interested in being objective - just loud and obnoxious.
How do you explain the witnesses and the physical evidence putting the beginning of the verbal confrontation at the top of the T if the deceased was hiding in fear between some buildings 80 feet away? Or is your answer just more insults and diversion?
Kneejerk shouters tried to shut down the discussions during the Democratic primary in 2008. Kneejerk shouters tried to shut down the discussion during the Casey Anthony trial. It's the typical response when you don't have the facts on your side to attack with insults. Insults that don't even hold water.
- [quote]That was after he was out of his car.
Well, yes, he was out of his vehicle when he was pursuing Martin. It's hard to pursue someone in a vehicle when they leave the road and continue on sidewalks between buildings.
Staying in your vehicle would be more consistent with looking for street signs - which are located at intersections where motorists can see them.
- "A black boy walks in his neighborhood, so Zimmerman has to kill him?"
That's the theory the Trayvon fangurls keep squealing about; George Zimmerman is a rabid racist who spys a black teenager and decides that he must be killed. They shriek: "He killed Travon because he was black!" That is going to be very, VERY hard to prove in court.
"I want Zimmerman to suffer for a very long time."
You should seek psychiatric counsel. You need it.
- Amazing this tread goes on and on with the two sides arguing the same points over and over.
Also interesting is this being a gay website that there are actually gays who would argue in favor of the tactic of putting the victim on trial. There are still so many in the world who think gay people are all pedos and degenerates and who view us only through their own warped ideas about who we are and therefore believe that anything bad that happens to any of us is deserved. Why would any gay person then turn around and use the same warped logic on some one else?
- Lot of crazy freepers here,r409.
- The whole thing about "looking for street signs" was manufactured after the shooting, back at the police station, after GZ had time to concoct a story. He was a policeman wannabe, a block watch leader, and knew the law on self defense and that he needed to make his story compliant with stand your ground.
The dispatcher never asked for an address, except for "Alright, what address are you parked in front of?"
Zimmerman responds "Um, I don’t know. It’s a cut-through so I don’t know the address." If he had been in his vehicle, he could have just looked at the house closest to him.
A cut-through is a pedestrian walkway - Zimmerman had been out of his vehicle pursuing TM already. He had never been looking for an address.
But he couldn't admit to pursuing TM because it might harm his stand your ground defense. So he made up the story about "looking for an address" after he shot TM.
- If the jury is similar to the people posting on this thread, it's sure to be a hung jury. If there's any yet undisclosed evidence presented at trial that proves GZ did not have fear for his life, then I would vote guilty on some charge; otherwise, I would have to accept the self-defense claim. I've never been a juror, but I know that I wouldn't vote anyone guilty based on just likelihood or the pressure to convict someone. (May be the effect of watching 12 Angry Men.)
- [quote]The defendant had been asked where the suspect was heading and to find out the street he told the police later that he walked on the walkway from his truck
911 dispatcher: He’s running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down toward the other entrance of the neighborhood.
911 dispatcher: OK, which entrance is that he’s headed towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance.
911 dispatcher: Are you following him?
He wasn't looking for an address. He was following Trayvon.
- A black boy walks to the store at halftime during the All Stars basketball game to get his kid brother some candy.
He is chased and killed on the way home from the store, by a man with mental problems and a violent history.
The killer has connections...his father is a retired magistrate judge. His grandfather was educated at Harvard. His mom is a local hot shot.
The boy laid unidentified in the morgue while the killer cleaned up before being interviewed by his cop buddies. They made no effort to immediately notify the boy's family. In fact, it wasn't until the boy's dad called the cops to report his son missing did he learn his son was dead.
Sheriff Lee & DA Wolfinger determine that the killer acted in self-defense, and would therefore not be arrested. They seriously thought it would blow over. Based on the reporting by local media, this looked like just another gang banger shoot out.
Except that the kid was not in a gang. He was unarmed. He had nothing illegal on his person.
After Al Sharpton interviewed the boy's father, the story slowly crept into the national headlines. It was reported on "Inside Edition" before other outlets finally picked it up.
Sheriff Lee was pressured to speak to the media. At his press conference, he confirmed that the killer would not be arrested due to SYG.
I have literally been following this case from the outset.
The victim had no offensive injuries.
The killer never went to the hospital. Even though he told police that his head had been slammed repeatedly into the sidewalk.
The victim did not have the killer's blood on his hands. Yet the killer told police he was nearly strangled to death.
Considering the above FACTS - that Trayvon Martin did absolutely NOTHING to deserve to die that night - please explain why this is not a lynching: an unarmed black boy was killed by a psycho, and the cops tried to cover it up.
If Clarence Thomas can refer to his confirmation hearings as a lynching, then one can certainly refer to the murder of Trayvon Martin as a lynching.
- [quote]Also interesting is this being a gay website that there are actually gays who would argue in favor of the tactic of putting the victim on trial.
Not everyone posting here is gay, and threads like this that deal with hot button issues like race are known to attract outsider trolls.
Besides that we have plenty of closet cases, gay republicans and general self-loathers. They aren't the norm or even that large of a minority, they just post more.
- Exactly R411 and there's more to it than that.
First, GZ correctly identifies the street as Retreat View Circle at the very beginning of the police call before stepping out of his car so he knew darn well where he was.
Second, if you compare the police call transcript to the crime scene photos on p.17 you'll notice a few curious things. GZ provides a fairly detailed description of TM but says TM is by the clubhouse near the front entrance which is a good a distance from where GZ was parked. GZ's car is also curiously parked facing forward, toward the clubhouse road and the rear toward the pedestrian T. As far as I can see the only for that to happen would have been for GZ to have spotted TM near the clubhouse at the entrance, slowed down to check
him out and then continued around Retreat View Circle to end up in front of TM again and forcing TM to walk directly past his car in order to reach any of the 3 ways home.
Of course TM was coming toward GZ. It's the only way he had to get home. And when he got to
the car he did not stop to confront GZ. Instead he took off running in the direction of home. And GZ can be heard exiting his car to follow TM immediately after saying "He's running away". Yes, he's running away from YOU.
GZ clearly knew there were only the 2 parallel roads with walking path between that TM could have taken. He also knew about the cut thrus so the only logical reason for him not to have returned to his car when told to was to hang around and see if he could spot TM popping out one side or the other. There was no reason for him to be out checking street sign or addresses. The road runs in a U shape and he was stationed at the open end of it and in an easy enough place for the police to spot if he'd just returned to his car or, better still, never left it.
- I haven't been following this case, but maybe someone can explain something to me that to me condemns Zimmerman and all his pretensions completely. If he's involved in neighborhood watch, and in such a small neighborhood, how the hell did the guy not know who Trayvon was? He's supposed to be protecting his neighbors, not killing them.
- Ironic isn't it, 417...George Zimmerman:
Worst. NW Captain. Ever.
He can't even "Watch" a neighborhood right.
- Tasteful Friends, check out the below I found today.
It has audio recordings of GZs side of the story.
Omg omg omg
He's on tape saying that Trayvon jumped him from out of the bushes when GZ walked back to his truck.
1. There are no bushes
2. Trayvon was killed 40 feet away from GZ's truck.
GZ is sooooo toast.
Why can't the Zimbots see that? This guy unlawfully killed an unarmed minor ...and his story is full of LIES.
Why do they support him???
How can they be so wrong and yet certain they are right?
What's going on?
Are people really that racist...to mindlessly conclude, without fair evaluation, that that black boy...or young black male....deserved to die at the hands of a lying child killer & molester George Zimmerman??
The man is psycho....he takes crazy pills. He shut off electricity in his house once while his mom was living there.
This is a guy who was fired as a bouncer for illegal raves. Why? Because he roughed up a drunk girl.
The man is a bully...he's shady as all get out. Yet these trolls will go to the end of the earth for him.
- Here's the blog with the actual audio recordings.
Listen and weep. :(
- "I wasn't following him. I was just going in the same direction."
- "GZ is sooooo toast."
You should shut up. Your propensity to keep repeating "GZ is toast" makes you seem retarded.
- Maybe they are retarded but I hope they (toast) are correct.
- If Florida wouldn't convict Casey Anthony, Zimmerman will be an easy acquittal.
- Thanks,r419,r420. This Zimbots are creepy racists just like their hero!
- Everything Gz did, he attributes to TM...and vice versa.
GZ is the one who said, "you're going to die tonight," and "shut the fuck up."
TM is the one who yelled for help.
GZ is having fun "outsmarting" the cops. Why? Overconfidence.
He was a big fish in a small pond.
Trayvon was just another black boy...or what racists refer to as "thug."
- Apples and oranges, 424.
The body in the CA case deteriorated exposed in the woods for a year.
CA never said a word about the specifics. She never testified.
There is no question as to whether GZ killed the unarmed youth.
GZ has to take the stand to explain his side of the story because there is no evidence to speak on his behalf.
He will be torn to shreds on cross.
Remember, the only reason GZ was not arrested for 44 days is because of SYG. Yet GZ is not using SYG as a defense.
That, by itself, says a lot.
Fuck you 422. I seriously don't give a shit what your racist brain thinks. Lol
- GZ also claimed that Trayvon said "You got me," just after being shot.
Who the hell talks like that? GZ obviously watches too much Film Noir.
- R422.s post at r312 says all I need to know about him...racist trolls who sympathizes with a cold blooded murderer.
- The trail is still a week away and this thread is almost full.
Hate to see what will happen when it finally gets underway.
- Exactlyexactly, 428.
GZ also claims that TM called him "homie."
TM was born in 1995. Today's teens don't use "homie."
It's a relic from another era...like "coon."
- [quote] GZ also claimed that Trayvon said "You got me," just after being shot. Who the hell talks like that? [/quote]
Someone who thinks in B-movie dialogue.
- [quote] He will be torn to shreds on cross.
Remember, the only reason GZ was not arrested for 44 days is because of SYG. Yet GZ is not using SYG as a defense. That, by itself, says a lot.
Again you do not know what you are talking about. Perhaps you should just stick to stupidly calling people racists because they disagree with your ignorance of the law and reality. You have some anger issues and they are making you stupid.
Most people who also have an apparent self-defense claim are not arrested until the prosecution believes it has evidence to refute that claim. His injuries the night of the shooting supported the claim that he was defending himself against an assault. If you had any experience in this area you'd know that.
Zimmerman does not need the Stand Your Ground defense since he has a self-defense claim. Legally it is better to have a self-defense claim than a SYG claim.
Your over-the-top screeds are becoming pathological.
- Those interested in intelligent discussions on this subject should visit Jeralyn Merritt's blog. She is a very smart and experienced defense attorney and she has analyzed the evidence in this case quite effectively. She doesn't allow smears or bullshit from either side but she allows a healthy - and I repeat healthy - forum for discussion and debate no matter what your position is after you have reviewed the evidence.
The link is to a thread on the recent hearing regarding admission of evidence.
Her blog also discusses other cases and legal matters.
- R383--The point is that only racists--aka those with other agendas--twist the facts of this case to support Zimmerman. For example, telling me to "look at evidence"--Really? Take your own advice, please.
- R435, yadda yadda yadda. If they disagree with me then they're racists. Did I get that right?
- You've got it backwards, r433: my posts provide facts; yours contribute personal insults.
And YOU don't know what you're talking about.
I do know what I'm talking about. This happened 20 minutes from my house, and I have followed the case closely from DAY ONE.
Look on my FB timeline if you don't believe me.
I was at the big march in Sanford.
I knew about Trayvon Martin before Rev. Al Sharpton did.
You don't know the facts. I have posted them here, but you still haven't grasped them.
The fact that Trayvon had no offensive injuries or blood on his hands is not an opinion. It is not a personal insult. It was not designed to hurt you or upset you.
It is a fact
That TM died 40 feet away from where the killer claims he was attacked by him is not a personal insult aimed at offending you.
It is simply a fact.
It is a fact.
All you've done here is attack. You've posted no facts to support the killer's stories.
You've provided no explanation as to why a child molester with multiple arrests taking psych meds has so much credibility with you.
Nor why an unarmed black kid minding his own business is such a threat to society that he has to be taken down.
- Notice r436's lame distraction.
The Zimbots want to talk about anything but the irrefutable facts.
They gloss over all the lies he told...about how Trayvon smothered him.
How could GZ yell for help for 45 seconds while being smothered?
GZ can't remember how Trayvon slammed his head in the sidewalk: if TM grabbed him by the ears or skull.
Ok, now go ahead back to whining about racism. Continue to ignore the facts with your meaningless distractions....whatever.
Continue defending the child killer....and molester, too. GZ molested his you get cousin for 10 years. Another tidbit you'll never post about.
- [quote]I do know what I'm talking about. This happened 20 minutes from my house, and I have followed the case closely from DAY ONE.
Sorry but that does not make you an expert on the law in the case or the facts. Unless you are part of the prosecution team or the defense team.
You clearly don't understand the law.
[quote] You don't know the facts. I have posted them here, but you still haven't grasped them
You have cherry picked your "facts." That's not how you "grasp" a case. There are plenty of other sites - objective sites - where the evidence has been posted.
[quote] The fact that Trayvon had no offensive injuries or blood on his hands is not an opinion.
Besides the abrasions on one or more of his knuckles - a fact which you omitted in your version of the "facts" - you are correct in that Martin had no injuries (besides the obvious gunshot wound). You want to interpret that as favorable to Martin but you fail to see how that could also support Zimmerman's claim that he did not assault Martin and was instead assaulted by Martin.
When you add the word "offensive" to Martin's wounds or according to you lack thereof you do not provide facts. But rather you provide your opinion. Which you are not qualified to do.
The same wound(s) can often by characterized as both offensive and defensive. Abrasions on knuckles are more often attributable to offensive actions such as punching someone or holding someone's head while you are pounding said head onto the ground (your knuckles could scrape the ground in the process).
There is no reason why Martin's hands would necessarily have blood on them. Noses don't bleed the instant you punch them and if your hands aren't touching the back of the head you are pounding onto the ground then you wouldn't have blood on your hands. Plus it was raining though I'm not if that is a factor or not.
You are setting up straw dogs and knocking them down as if they are do or die matters. They are not.
[quote] That TM died 40 feet away from where the killer claims he was attacked by him . . .
So what? This is a "fact" taken out of context and ignoring the other facts that explain it. Again you are cherry picking your facts.
The statements - not just by Zimmerman -but by those who heard and saw the fight say it started exactly where Zimmerman says it started - at the top of the T - and that the fight physically moved as the fight progressed until it stopped 40 feet south of the beginning location once the shot was fired.
"W11, who lives at the northwest corner of the T, is certain that what she heard was a verbal exchange started very near the top of the T, which turned to a scuffle, moved to or past her patio door and turned to screams for help. W6, her next-door neighbor, agrees that he first heard the altercation north of his residence and moving south"
That is a very common scenario with physical and even just verbal altercations. I don't know how many crime scenes I have visited where a fight moved considerably from its starting point to its finish. Zimmerman never said it started and finished on the same spot.
I will say that people in the middle of a fight are not always the best reporters of the fight. While you are either being attacked or attacking it is rare people have a good sense of every movement made or spot they traverse over the course of that fight. This is especially true of those who are being injured or in fear for their lives.
[quote] as to why a child molester with multiple arrests taking psych meds has so much credibility with you . . .
Seriously when you have proof of these accusations then please provide them. Otherwise this serves no purpose.
[quote] why an unarmed black kid minding his own business is such a threat to society that he has to be taken down.
Martin was observed loitering
[quote] I was at the big march in Sanford.
This explains your posts and your bias.
I understand people getting upset at what they perceived may have happened. I have been there. But that perception does not necessarily translate into what really happened. It also does not translate into what the law allows in such circumstances.
- Lots of anti Hispanics on this thread
- That would be Hi-panics 440.
- [quote]The defendant had been asked where the suspect (both the defendant and the dispatcher were referring to a suspect)
I'd like to know where in the 911 call the dispatcher refers to Martin as a suspect or suspicious person.
- Seriously - troll-dar this thread.
There is a single nutter turning it piss-yellow...
- I'd like to shoot R8 as he goes walking through my neighborhood...fucking racist pig.
- "GZ is the one who said, "you're going to die tonight," and "shut the fuck up."
I've read a lot about this case and I have never heard anywhere that GZ said "you're going to die tonight" or "shut the fuck up." Unless it's been verified that his voice is on tape saying those things this accusation is a absolute falsehood. Sounds like the typical bullshit Trayvon fangurls like to regurgitate.
- R445, if you examined this soberly rather than hatefully, then you would comprehend that there is as much evidence proving that GZ said that as there is that TM jumped GZ from the bushes and without provocation slammed poor, armed Mr. Zimmerman's head into the concrete.
GZ conveniently executed the only witness to his crime.
- R439 that " Martin was observed loitering" is your answer to the question "why an unarmed black kid minding his own business is such a threat to society that he has to be taken down." tells me all I need to know about you and your "logic".
- "TM jumped GZ from the bushes and without provocation slammed poor, armed Mr. Zimmerman's head into the concrete."
TM didn't know GZ was armed. If he did, he probably would have run away as fast as he could. TM didn't seem like the type to confront a man, even a short, pudgy man, with a gun.
- [quote]Besides the abrasions on one or more of his knuckles - a fact which you omitted in your version of the "facts" - you are correct in that Martin had no injuries (besides the obvious gunshot wound).
There was a single, tiny abrasion on the victim's left knuckle. It is so puny that it is completely irrelevant. Wait and see. Besides, the kid was right handed. Hardly proof that he broke GZ's nose.
Have you ever broken someone's nose? If so, then you got swollen & bruised knuckles. TM did not.
The fact that TM had no offensive injuries proves he did not assault the psycho chasing him in the dark. (Oh, I'm sorry...there is no proof that GZ chased the youth. Well, except the fact that the kid was killed 40 feet from GZ's truck. But, GZ said he followed, but then stopped following...he was just going in the same direction of TM. So that settles that. Ok. Got it.)
[quote]There is no reason why Martin's hands would necessarily have blood on them.
How the fuck do you strangle a guy with a broken nose and not get even the tiniest amount of his blood on yourself?
Oh, and please answer how the killer was able to yell HELP for 45 seconds while being strangled.
And about TM being killed 40 feet away from GZ's truck, you said:
[quote]So what? This is a "fact" taken out of context and ignoring the other facts that explain it.
It proves that the unarmed teen did not attack the armed man by the man's truck as the man claims. That's huge because it proves the man followed the teen, which was unlawful and makes him the aggressor. You know, the one threatening the other's "ground."
[quote]I will say that people in the middle of a fight are not always the best reporters of the fight.
Oh, ok. That explains the killer's inconsistencies. Hey, no big deal. But...if HE'S confused about what happened that night, why are you so certain he's innocent? If he's unsure, then what can possibly testify to what happened??
Too bad we can't ask Trayvon. Bummer, right? To quote what GZ said to Sean Hannity about the tragedy of killing Trayvon Martin, "what can you do?"
*shrug*...move along, people. What can you do?? It's not GZs fault some unarmed punk slammed his chest into GZ's gun.
Btw, TM was shot from an intermediate range...not close range. So they weren't fighting at the time the gun was fired.
I provided a link to an article about GZ molesting his cousin. He apologized to her and her family, and promised to not attend the same family functions as she. Read it and weep. :(
The man is a bully. And very sick.
[quote]Martin was observed loitering
Are you a moron? Do you automatically believe everything a murderer tells you?
If he can unlawfully shoot another human being to death, then he will certainly lie about it.
And besides...when is loitering justification for killing someone?
You are such a tool. I hope you're getting paid for the BS you post here. Because, really... I am embarrassed for you. You're shameless in your effort to defend a child killer.
- Irrelevant. Nothing excuses his murder. Zimmerman had no right to chase him with a gun, the 911 operator told him not to follow him, and that they would send a car out, but the racist cop wannabe took it upon himself to play vengeful cop and ended up killing Trayvon for nothing. What was his excuse for following him? He did not like his demeanor while he was standing around his neighborhood? His complaint to the 911 operator about Trayvon was frivolous at best, and again, he was told not to follow/chase after him, but he choose to follow/chase him with a gun. He deserves to be in jail.
- Zimmerman's defense team caught playing fast and loose with facts last week.
Mark O'Mara sought to get some evidence used at trial that included a cell phone video.
"[italic]Presumably; however, you’ll keep your mind open when we present the videos of him at these fights, not just as a spectator, but refereeing one and taping one where two buddies of his were beating up a homeless guy,[/italic] O’Mara said to Judge Debra Nelson.
Turns out they got caught on that one and were forced to come clean about it in a statement issued on their website:
"During the Tuesday, May 28th hearing, Mr. O'Mara misstated the nature of video from Trayvon Martin's cell phone which was included in the Defendant's 3rd Supplemental Discovery.
He stated that the video showed "two buddies of his beating up a homeless guy," when what happened was Trayvon Martin, along with a buddy, was videotaping two homeless guys fighting each other over a bike."
- R448, it's possible the killer had his weapon unholstered.
I know he said that he did not. But his word is dirt. Even his wife was arrested for perjury in this case.
Remember, the killer is the only surviving witness. His story is the epitome of self-serving.
He wants everyone to believe he did nothing wrong. That it's TM's fault GZ killed him.
He even told Sean Hannity that it was "God's will."
- On May 28, Judge Nelson ruled that Shellie Zimmerman will have to submit to a deposition by the prosecution in her husband’s case. She has been charged with perjury for lying under oath about her husband’s assets at his bond hearing.
The prosecutor said this to the judge about Shellie:
[quote]She has information germane to this case in that she was present when the defendant made statements, not just to her — there’s no husband wife privilege — he made statements to other people when she was present, and she is also germane to what happened after the shooting itself.
One might suspect that the State may have promised her use immunity. That would be a promise not to use anything she says against her, so long as she answers the questions truthfully.
Interesting...GZ better have a strong marriage. Not sure Shellie is keen on going to the pokie on his behalf.
- [quote] Martin was observed loitering
You've got to be fucking kidding us with this shit. He was "observed loitering" by HIS KILLER.
- [quote]You've got to be fucking kidding us with this shit. He was "observed loitering"
The loitering nonsense was posted by the same clown that claimed the dispatcher was referring to Martin as "a suspect."
For some idiotic reason he's invested in casting Martin as a criminal, rather than looking at facts and evidence that point to the kid just walking home after purchasing ice tea and candy at a local store.
- I posted before I finished the sentence. Though it will make little difference to those with closed minds.
Zimmerman observed Martin loitering in the rain by the side of a house that had been burglarized recently, a house with residents who had recently made reports of a suspicious person loitering around it, and Zimmerman knew that the loiterer did not live there as Zimmerman knew the residents. He did exactly what the Sanford police had advised residents of that neighborhood to do in the light of the recent burglaries, he called the non-emergency police number and reported a suspicious person. Martin was doing exactly what a suspicious person gets reported for all the time. It is not an issue of race. It is an issue of behavior out of place.
- On June 26, 2012, the prosecution released the results of a voice stress test performed on George Zimmerman the day after the shooting. A voice stress test is a type of test used to measure deceptive or psychological stress in the human voice in response to questions. Zimmerman was asked, "Did you confront the guy you shot?", to which Zimmerman answered, "No." Zimmerman was asked, "Were you in fear for your life, when you shot the guy?", to which Zimmerman answered, "Yes." The examiner concluded that Zimmerman "told substantially the complete truth" in the examination, and Zimmerman was classified as "No Deception Indicated (NDI)" according to the report.
Re: Loitering. It took Trayvon 40 minutes to walk the distance between the 7-11 and the clubhouse. He left the 7-11 at 6:29 and Zimmerman called the law at 7:09. If not loitering, then moving VERY SLOW.
- Actually, *Zimmerman* was loitering.
I guess he's really lucky he's alive.
AKA - "Moving slowly" = Grounds for execution.
- Zimmerman demomonstrated how he killed Trayvon on his video recorded statement. he showed how he was hold something in his fist while aiming his gun with his other hand.While being careful not to shoot his own hand. he was holding the front of Trayvon’s shirts preventing his escape when he fired that bullet into his chest.
We’ve all heard those screams that was the most heart breaking thing about this case.Trayvon was literally begging this man not to kill him,while at the same time he was desperately trying to break free from his grip.He simply wasn’t strong enough.He was also being interrogated. people around world heard those screams and most of them the vast majority knew it was not Zimmerman.
As usual Zimmerman with his lawyer is trying to deflect blame on to the victim. they want to use any mistake trayvon ever made to justify his death.they like to mention fights well most of us have had a fight or 2 as teens hardly proves trayvon has a propensity fo violence. even zimmerman got into fights as a teen he seems to have been a bully based on his behavior as an adult. Trayvon was a laid back kid who sometimes messed up. Trayvon did nothing to deserve death.
The evidence is clear and overwhelming they should be able to get a conviction even without DD’s testimony. Niether he or his lawyer will be able to expalin away the DNA.they will not be able to exp[lain his own statements they will not be able to explain the autopsy report.They will not be able to explain the ballistics. Those screams will be the icing on the cake.the only way he gets off is if they get people like his sleaze ball supporters on the jury. If that happens,he will kill someone else.
- Oh great. So now r457 will have you believe that the walking speed of Trayvon is indicative that he was up to no good that night.
Yet he was found with nothing on him but some candy and a drink. If he's a burglar, he's a terrible one at that.
- R457, 7-11 is a mile from Trayvon's neighborhood.
The average person walks a mile in 20 minutes.
So 20 minutes there and 20 minutes back = 40 minutes.
The rain would have slowed me down, as I usually take cover. I'm a native Floridian like Trayvon. We know we can usually just wait a few minutes for the rain to lighten.
It also took him a few minutes to shop & pay at 7-11.
Based on your timeline, then it's obvious that TM did not "
- 1/2 mile from the c-store to the clubhouse took 40 minutes, R461. NOT a round trip. We know the time he LEFT the c-store and the time zimmerman called 911 - 40 minutes. 1/2 mile in 40 minutes IN THE RAIN. Seems to me he would have been jogging to get home with it raining, instead of taking such an inordinate time.
You took that information, expanded it to a round trip, added shopping time, etc. For god's sake, Please don't ever sit on a jury.
- r461 at least lays out the timeline where you r462 assume that a slow walker means he's out burgling. So what does he have to show for that extra time of walking? A drink and candy. Unless the police found some stolen item on him, you can STFU.
- R463 - Have you never heard of "casing"?... Good lord, some of you people are thick. How do you manage to dress yourselves?
- My God. The one who got killed is demonized, while the gun-toting killer's actions aren't even of consequence to idiots like r464.
- Oh good lord, casing. Try "getting under some shelter to get out of the rain in hopes that it'll pass soon, and then giving up on the idea after a while cause it doesn't stop."
I don't know what the outcome of the case is going to be but, there are two of you on this thread who so far have come up with loitering, casing the joint, being the 'suspect', and failing that, the 'suspicious person'. Man, you're trying hard.
The Martin kid is the victim in this case. Keep that in mind.
- r466 don't forget that the accusation that the Skittles and drink wasn't for snacks. It's to make a drug in his father's home in his father's presence!
- I just read [R400]'s link to the transcript, and the following exchange makes it crystal clear that Zimmerman wasn't looking for a street name or address when he got out of the truck; he gives the dispatcher specific directions for the responders to meet him at his truck since he's not parked at a specific address.
Where it gets really interesting is at 3'40" where he says 'I don't know where this kid is...', then at 3'49" he changes his instructions to the dispatcher, directing the responders to call him when they reach the neighborhood. It seems pretty clear that this is the point where he decided to get out of his truck and follow to see where Martin was headed.
Also, sorry in advance if my formatting is screwed up, I've never tried a long quote on this site before. The transcript:
Um, if they come in through the gate, tell them to go straight past the clubhouse and, uh, straight past the clubhouse and make a left and then go past the mailboxes you’ll see my truck. [3:10]
Alright, what address are you parked in front of? [3:21]
Um, I don’t know. It’s a cut-through so I don’t know the address. [3:25]911 dispatcher:
OK, do you live in the area?
Yeah, yeah, I live here.
OK, what’s your apartment number?
It’s a home. It’s 1950 – oh, crap, I don’t want to give it out – I don’t know where this kid is [inaudible] [3:40]
OK, do you just want to meet with them at the mailboxes then? [3:42]
Yeah, that’s fine. [3:43]
Alright, George, I’ll let them know you’ll meet them at …
Could you have them call me and I’ll tell them where I’m at? [3:49]
OK, that’s no problem.
My number … you’ve got it?
- Ok, so let's make a list of evidence that favors each side.
Supporting Murder Two:
- GZ followed the kid. He says so on the NEN recording, and the kid was killed closer to his destination than to GZ's truck, which was 40 feet behind them.
- there are only three streets in that neighborhood, yet the self-appointed Watch Captain did not know which street he was on?
- the kid had no offensive injuries
- the kid did not have his killer's blood on him
- an ear witness heard the gunman confront the kid and the kid asking why he was being followed.
- Trayvon Martin was 6'0" and 160 lbs
- the kid was unarmed and had nothing illegal on his person
- it was raining so he had his hoodie up
- the kid was tested for intoxication and had a trace amount of thc in his system
- nobody knows for sure who had burglarized the neighborhood as nobody had been arrested. Perhaps GZ was the burglar and schemed a way to blame it on someone else and also look like a hero.
- GZ has a history of violence, has been arrested multiple times, molested his younger cousin, and was forced to attend Anger Management classes. He had restraining orders against him, and was fired from at least two jobs...one for overpowering a drunk woman, another for bullying a Muslim coworker. He kicked a neighbor's dog, and shut the power off on the house his mother was living in.
- how could the killer have screamed for help for 45 seconds while simultaneously being strangled?
- the killer never went to the hospital for his life threatening injuries which included having his head slammed into the concrete
- Neighborhood Watch volunteers are prohibited from following suspicious persons. They are also told not to pack heat. GZ had his wife's gun on him.
- the contents of the killer's phone have not been released
And for the Defense:
- the kid assaulted the gunman by the man's truck, and the tussle moved 40 feet in three minutes.
- GZ did not leave his truck to follow the kid but to see what street he was on
- the kid had a minor abrasion on his left knuckle
- the kid broke the man's nose without provocation
- on that evening, the man weighed 200 lbs. He is 5'7.5" tall.
- it took the kid 40 minutes to go to and from 7-11. That's a long time.
- the kid wore a hoodie.
- the killer was not drug tested, though he told detectives he was on psych meds for ADD and anxiety
- the neighborhood had been robbed recently...by black men.
- TM had photos of a gun, homeless men fighting over a bike, himself with gold teeth, and organized fights he refereed on his cell phone.
- the killer says the kid nearly choked him to death, and that it is he who screamed for help for 45 seconds
- the kid slammed the killer's head into the sidewalk repeatedly
I know this isn't complete...feel free to add anything...insults will be ignored.
- To the people who (in my opinion) are strangely obsessed with finding a way to blame his murder on Trayvon: Ask yourself sincerely. If Trayvon were "Trevor", a white teenager, all other circumstances being the same, and George Zimmerman were a dark-skinned black man, would you feel the same? You don't have to respond, or have some comeback on this. Just ask yourself honestly.
- Yes, R470. I defend people. I don't care who they are or who their victim is.
You also need to ask yourself honestly why you make these assumptions about everyone who disagrees with you or tries to look at it from a defense viewpoint?
- Frankly, r471, I don't believe you. Sorry.
R470 is correct, and the statics prove so.
Blacks get arrested for minor things all the time.
GZ didn't even (initially) get arrested for a major thing, such as taking the life of an unarmed youth who by all accounts was trying to get away from him.
When he finally did get arrested (44 days later), Al Sharpton became a target for GZ supporters.
Denial is very powerful. Like r470 suggested, be honest. The truth shall set you free. Someday.
- White teenagers can be even bigger punks than black ones. If "Trevor" had attacked someone, broke their nose and beat their head on the concrete than the shooter had every right to defend himself, regardless of skin color.
- Perhaps, r473. But none of that happend in this case.
The killer is lying.
- The judge in this case (we'll call her "Cousin It" to keep it simple) is doing her best to railroad GZ straight into a 25 year sentence. She needs to be careful though - two of her rulings have ALREADY been overturned on appeal. She may end up being removed from the case entirely if she continues to make bad rulings like these. They've already had one judge removed for bias, there may be two before this trial even starts. Unreal what has happened to justice in this country. It's a sickening shame. Crooked DA's, crooked judges, crooked cops - they all need to go.
- I hope Judge Nelson sanctions Mark O'Mara for lying about Trayvon Martin. He should pay big bucks for that. Otherwise, she must be in the tank for the defense. :(
Does anybody know why the first DA, Wolfinger, immediately recused himself and then quietly retired?
The only homicide detective on the scene wanted to arrest Zimmerman for manslaughter, buy Wolfinger showed up in person that night and the charges were never made.
In hindsight, I think Zimmerman would have been better off had he been arrested that night for manslaughter. Rather than this gain international attention and a higher charge.
I wonder I'd Wolfinger regrets his decision. He put his neck out for Zimmerman, and now look this is his career legacy.
- Does it say in Florida's stand your ground law that a thug has to be over 18? R475 is correct, something is rotten in this case, the hln and cnn are doing their best to make Trayvon into an angel, he wasn't. I'm tired of so many decks having only one card, the race card.
- Here is why Zimmerman will walk:
"Stand-Your-Ground law acquits Florida man who killed wife's lover"
t took a Florida jury just two hours to acquit a retired US Army lieutenant colonel who invoked a controversial self-defense law to explain his decision to kill his wife’s lover.
Jurors decided, after two days of testimony, that Ralph Wald, 70, was justified in killing Walter Conley when Wald arrived home one night to find Conley, 32, having sex with Wald’s wife, Johnna Lynn Flores. Wald testified he shot Conley in the head and chest because he thought the younger man was an intruder who was raping the 41-year-old Flores.
Wald’s attorneys successfully argued that their client’s case fell under the jurisdiction of the Stand-Your-Ground law, a self-defense plea used by defendants who witness a situation where someone appears to be in harm’s way and the only option is to intervene with deadly force. Nearly half of the fifty United States have some form of the law.
Wald claimed he did not recognize Conley, one of Flores’ former boyfriends, when he found the two having sex on the living room floor at roughly 3:00 am on March 10, 2013. The couple had been married for under five months at the time.
Prosecutors argued that Wald, who suffers from erectile dysfunction, murdered Conley in the midst of a jealous rage.
“It’s a personal insult to conduct that kind of activity in a man’s home, his castle. It cuts to the quick. It’s brazen,” Assistant State Attorney Chris Moody said in his closing argument. “That kind of deep and personal insult, when you find another man having sex in your living room and you can’t, would make you want to lash out. And he did.”
On the witness stand, Flores claimed she was “black-out” drunk and unable to remember much about the night in question. Flores and Wald were married only weeks after Conley was arrested for shooting at Flores, whose home he had been staying at for several weeks in October of 2012.
“I am absolutely elated,” Wald told the Tampa Bay Times on the way out of the courtroom. Flores was also ready to celebrate, telling reporters “Because my husband puts me first, he’s taking me to Waffle House.”
In the courtroom Wald’s attorney, Joe Episcopo, said Wald is “the kind of American who has made this country great.”
Detectives said that when Wald phoned 911 he said he shot a man who had been “fornicating” with his wife, failing to ever mention the word “rape.”
“If the same thing happened again, I would do the same thing,” Wald said on the stand. “I didn’t think I did anything wrong. I had a problem, I found someone raping my wife. I took care of it. I got a gun and I shot him.”
The case has, perhaps inevitably, been sensationalized in the Florida tabloids. The trial has also been called a warm-up for the media firestorm that will descend on Orlando, Florida when the George Zimmerman trial begins later this year.
Zimmerman, a Hispanic neighborhood watch coordinator, is charged with second-degree murder for killing Trayvon Martin, an African-American teen. Zimmerman is expected to plead not guilty by way of Stand-Your-Ground, maintaining the disputed defense that the 17-year-old attacked him and the only way to save his own life was to use deadly force.
Prepare for the race riots.
- [quote]Zimmerman had no right to chase him with a gun
He didn't chase him with a gun. He carried a gun on his person. A lot of people do. You're intimating that he took a gun and chased Trayvon with it, meaning to shoot him.
The Stand Your Ground Law is on Zimmerman's side. It's a stupid law, and people are getting out of murders thanks to it. Whether Trayvon did this or that, if Zimmerman felt threatened, he had the right to shoot. That's how the law works.
- [quote][R466] don't forget that the accusation that the Skittles and drink wasn't for snacks. It's to make a drug in his father's home in his father's presence!
Honey, anyone under 25 will tell you that Martin was definitely trying to get high with those two items regardless of their feelings on the case.
- [quote]If Trayvon were "Trevor", a white teenager, all other circumstances being the same, and George Zimmerman were a dark-skinned black man, would you feel the same?
Zimmerman is not white, so just stop.
- I wonder why Trayvon became so violently angry. I've had people follow me too closely, in the grocery store with their shopping cart, but I've never resorted to confronting them and beating their head in. It may be a different mindset.
- [quote]Prosecutors argued that Wald, who suffers from erectile dysfunction, murdered Conley in the midst of a jealous rage.
There's a lot of revelation in that sentence.
- R482, are you high?
A stranger with a gun stalked him.
Wtf is wrong with you. Haven't you ever heard of "stranger danger?"
- R479, exept for one thing, the defense is not invoking the stand your ground law.
- LOL R480. IF TM wanted to get "high" wouldn't it have easier to cut to the chase and eat the entire sugar with some coffee on the side? Because that's the only sort of "high" he'd be getting from the stuff he had on him.
He had a bag of the CANDY Skittles, not the street slang "Skittles" for the synthetic drugs like X made from the ingredients in cold remedies.
I'm well over 25 and I damn well know the difference between the two. Why don't you?
- The state has the burden of proof, and they're going to have a hard time when there are eye witnesses like witness #6...
An hour after the shooting, Witness #6 told the SPD that he saw a "black man in a black hoodie on top of either a white guy...or an Hispanic guy in a red sweater on the ground yelling out help." According to #6, the black man on top was "throwing down blows on the guy MMA [mixed martial arts] style." Witness #13 waited until the fighting ended, went outside, and saw Zimmerman walking towards him. "Am I bleeding?" Zimmerman asked. Witness #13 answered affirmatively. He also noticed "blood on the back of his head" and took a picture of it.
- Zimmerman should walk.
Shameful Florida prosecutor is just trying to Mike Nifong him for her own political gain.
- Two macho American fool kids. If one person dies, the other must be charged with something until it all gets sorted out. That is really what this is all about.
- It looks like MSNBC is doing full coverage of the Zimmerman trial. Good for them. I won't be watching, but if people are watching and interested, why let CNN/HLN get all the ratings?
I hope they just leave prime time alone. I need my political fix.
- Duh, r490.
Since Trayvon was black, there was no way on God's green earth MSNBC was not going to do full coverage.
- No racebaiter @r491. After the recent ratings deep, in addition to saying that MSNBC is not the place for breaking news, Griffin said that changes will be made in our own way. It's summer and he can afford to tweak the morning/afternoon lineup.
It's a good thing.
- Oh, I'm so hurt r492.
MSNBC is doing full coverage because Trayvon was black. Simple as that.
Blow smoke all you want, but it's the plain truth.
- He followed Trayvon when he was told not to and the prosecution should be allowed to say that in court.
- From a legal perspective, if Zimmerman's defense team is arguing self-defense, the issue of whether GZ disobeyed the 911 dispatcher or that he was "stalking" Trayvon is irrelevant to the issue at hand. What needs to be proven is that when Z confronted T and a fight ensued, was T the aggressor and did GZ do what a reasonable person in that same situation would have done to defend himself in that moment to save his own life. That's the legal issue the jury must decide.
GZ may have contributed to the confrontation and the ensuing fight, but it doesn't his claim of self-defense.
- Note how the pro-Zimmerman posts contain little info and are incendiary and fantastical.
They can't stand on the facts.
So they distract with attacks.
Trying to justify the killing of an unarmed youth used to be easy for the good ol boys.
Anybody see what's going on in Texas this week? Two white cops were fired for beating a black woman. It's all on tape.
Of course the same people supporting those cops also support GZ.
It will all be so obvious in 50 years. Just like segregation and lynching used to be acceptable but no more.
Anyway, this parallel case in Texas is happening at the same time the jury pool in Sanford is home watching the news. Can't be good for GZ. Alas, it's "God's Will."
- Give me a fucking break r496. It's not nearly as black and white as you make it out to be.
Zimmerman had every right to protect himself from having his head bashed in.
If that fact upsets you, then so be it!
- R497, why don't you provide proof that supports GZ's claim?
Is it because there isn't any?
Man up. List the facts that prove GZ defended himself.
As it appears to the rest of us, GZ was the aggressor. He was armed, he referred to his victim as "suspect," "asshole," and "coon/punk."
He also told police that he was not afraid of the kid.
As of course, Dispatch told the killer that they did not want him following the kid.
I look forward to your helpful and fact filled post
- Trayvon was so young and innocent it really bothers me the way they are making him into a hoodlum!
Love how you conveniently avoid the bloody pictures that have already been posted.
If jumped, a person has every right to protect himself from having his head bashed in. No law says otherwise. Just Martin's bad luck that Zimmerman was packing a concealed gun.
- You're getting ridiculous, r496.
I watch at least an hour of news every night on multiple channels and have not heard 1 word about your Texas case.
Sounds like wishful projecting to me.
- KTLK broke the news a while ago that the voice experts that the defense team hired has testified that the voices screaming for help on the 911 tape are NOT Zimmerman, as he had said.
Can't find a link.
- [quote] KTLK broke the news a while ago that the voice experts that the defense team hired has testified that the voices screaming for help on the 911 tape are NOT Zimmerman, as he had said.
If that's true, then Zimmerman is fucked.
- For r501
Police Beating In Jasper, Texas, Prompts Civil Suit From Keyarika Diggles
A violent confrontation between an African-American woman and local law enforcement in Jasper, Texas, has the racially troubled town in the news again.
KJAS reports that the Jasper City Council on Monday voted unanimously to fire two white police officers, Ricky Grissom and Ryan Cunningham, after video from security cameras surfaced recently of the pair beating 25-year-old Keyarika Diggles at police headquarters. The council also unanimously passed a motion to direct the city's district attorney to consider criminal charges against the officers.
Diggles' attorney, Cade Bernsen, told The Huffington Post that on May 5, at approximately 8:30 a.m., police officers woke Diggles up by banging on the door of her home, stating they had a warrant for her arrest. KBMT reported that Diggles was detained for an unpaid traffic ticket, but according to Bernsen, he and Diggles have not been provided with a copy of the warrant, nor have they been told what it was related to.
Bernsen told Yahoo News that, once at the jail, Diggles was trying to arrange to pay the fine with her mother over the phone when Grissom abruptly ended the call. Footage shows the two arguing as Cunningham comes up behind Diggles and attempts to place her in handcuffs. The video shows the officers twisting Diggles' arms, grabbing her by her hair and shoving her head against a desk. She is then forced to the floor and dragged into a jail cell.
"We believe that her civil rights were violated. We believe that there is a history of people, specifically African Americans, being abused by the Jasper Police Department. We intend to bring a civil action on behalf of Ms. Diggles for violation of her civil rights. We hope that we can bring enough scrutiny and attention to shame these people into reform," Bernsen said.
The Jasper Police Department has not returned a request for comment.
Jasper gained notoriety in 1998 after the brutal murder of James Byrd. Byrd's arm and head were severed after being dragged behind a pickup truck by Shawn Berry, Lawrence Russell Brewer and John King. The murder made national headlines and put a spotlight on the town's long history of racial divisions. Byrd's body was found by Rodney Pearson, Jasper's first black highway patrolman, who went on to become its first black police chief. Pearson was summarily fired after only 16 months on the job.
Bernsen, who also represents Pearson in a suit alleging the firing was racially motivated, told HuffPost that "Byrd's story has now come full circle."
- Any idea as to what Zimmerman is eating so that I can try to avoid it?
- My guess would be EVERYTHING, R505. He's gained at least 50 pounds.
- R506, his lawyer is claiming almost 100 pounds!
- Holy shit, 110 pounds! He looks awful. This sure won't help him with the jury.
- Fuck, he looks like Chaz Bono now!
- Here's the video. Not Zimmerman screaming for help. That asshole's toast.
- R501, here's the link. Looks like YOU'RE the ridiculous one dumbass.
- What do you fatfuckzimmzimm fans have to say now?
- Some people eat and eat when they're depressed or stressed; others starve.
- The Zimbots are real quiet now. What will their racist minds come up with as an excuse next? Morons.
- "That asshole's toast.'
You're an asshole with a fixation on the word "toast."
"The Zimbots are real quiet now. What will their racist minds come up with as an excuse next? Morons."
Actually Traybots like you are a lot more annoying. You and your ilk have a most tenuous grip on reality. And you can't seem to shut your flapping, yammering yaps.
- With the added weight, GZ just happens to look even more obviously Hispanic. If the jury agrees that he is being railroaded based on his ethnicity, it can work in his favor. If I were the defense lawyer I would put getting a fellow Hispanic on the jury as a top priority.
- [quote]With the added weight, GZ just happens to look even more obviously Hispanic.
Looks less Hispanic to me. All that fat erases features and makes him look like a white blob.
- [quote] Looks less Hispanic to me. All that fat erases features and makes him look like a white blob.
Except for that doodoo brown skin.
- [quote] ou and your ilk have a most tenuous grip on reality.
Yeah, plenty of facts in that post, lol!
Forensics expert said it wasn't him screaming. The liar is TOAST. OBESE toast.
- r504, she sounds like a cunt and waste of life. IDC and she deserves it.
- As do you R520,... As do you.
- Yes, asswipe at r511, everyone's talking about that Texas case. Why it's the hot topic of the nation. It will so influence the Zimmerman case.
You're fucking ridiculous!!
- Well, r511 certainly missed r501's point.
How the hell will that Texas case have any effect what so ever on the Zimmerman trial when it has not even made National news?
Answer: It won't.
- Doesn't matter. Tons of fun is still done. He'll go to prison, getting larger and sloppier by the day.
- Jeralyn Merritt's thoughts on the hearing today. June 7
The Frye hearing continues in the George Zimmerman case. Voice analyst Tom Owen testified today.
ABC News has obtained a clip of video from Trayvon Martin's cell phone with his voice. To my ear, Trayvon's voice sounds much deeper than the screams on the 911 call, which again tells me it's Zimmerman screaming.
I don't think aural spectrographic analysis or biometric voice comparisons like Tom Owen's should come into evidence under Frye or Daubert. The methodology is skewed because he is comparing a scream to spoken words, there's too much background noise, the environmental and recording conditions were too different, the scream samples aren't long enough, the quantity of words for comparison is insufficient, there are pitch issues because the screamer was under emotional stress, etc. He can't even give an opinion beyond "probable" in his words that it was not Zimmerman screaming. [More...]
As to his biometric program, he shouldn't be the one to opine on whether it's accepted in the scientific community because he is the proprietor of the software and has made a career out of the reliability of spectography. In other words, he's biased.
Owen says he's only testified once on his biometric EZ voice program. He tried to wiggle on whether there was an admissibility hearing in that case. He finally conceded there was not. As I pointed out before, there was no forensic challenge in that case -- the defendant was pro se-- and there was DNA evidence establishing her guilt.
In my view, Owen's inability to give an "ultimate conclusion" due to the lack of sufficient data alone should be a fatal deficiency to the admission of his expert testimony. "Probable" is not helpful to the jury.
Since Zimmerman will be testifying at trial, the jury can listen to Zimmerman and listen to the 911 call and decide for itself whether it believes George Zimmerman that he is the one screaming.
ABC News sent the short sample, gathered as evidence from Martin's cell phone, to a forensic analyst. Kent Gibson of Forensic Audio tells ABC News, a comparison of Martin's voice, Zimmerman's voice and the screams on the 911 tape, indicate the voice is more likely to be Zimmerman than Martin by a significant margin. However, he adds, so much of the howling and pleading overheard on that 911 tape is muffled or obscured, that only two seconds of the tape are useable. Therefore, he says, that there can be no definitive identification of "the screamer."
The FBI's leading forensic audio expert said much the same in his testimony Thursday. Dr. Horotaka Nakasone called it "disturbing" that someone would be able to make a positive voice identification based on the screams.
Here's an intelligent and good legal discussion on the voice analysis.
- Like I said, NOT GUILTY....
Florida is just trying to railroad him!
That eye witness saw what he saw. Martin was on top of Zimmerman and delivering multiple blows.
- Jeralyn Merritt is not a reliable source. She is a defense attorney who has completely turned TalkLeft into the pro-Zimmerman site. She censors those critical of Zimmerman.
During the 2008 Dem Primary, that was one of the blogs I frequented for political analysis. I do not recognize that place anymore and I have posted there since 2008.
If someone questions evidence against GZ, she'll delete the comment as "speculation." Yet, if someone speculates how based on the photos, Trayvon attacked GZ, Merritt would leave the comment and the replies alone.
She will not tolerate dissent.
- WTF r502?
You are completely wrong!!
Those 2 voice experts testified on behalf of the state of Florida in an admissibility hearing.
WTF did you think they were going to say?!
- Zimmerman was not merely "following" Trayvon, rather he was searching for Trayvon with malice against Martin of whom he had already described as an "asshole" prior to Trayvon Martin "running" away from Zimmerman. While actively searching for Trayvon, Zimmerman called Trayvon a "Fucking Coon, Goon or punk. After Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin, we learned through his interviews with detectives and his written statement that, before, during and after Zimmerman's searched for and found Martin, in Zimmerman's mind that night Trayvon was "the unarmed, asshole, teenage, punk, suspect" who "vandalizes neighborhoods" who needed to be "restrained" even after Zimmerman killed him.
I think Zimmerman's state-of-mind before, during and after he searched for and found Trayvon Martin shows that Zimmerman "precipitated the confrontation" with Martin which makes Zimmerman the aggressor. By that I mean, Zimmerman willfully, knowingly and with forethought provoked a conflict and created the circumstances that directly lead to his use of deadly force against Martin and that is not justifiable homicide (self defense). I think the evidence shows Zimmerman exacerbated the circumstances that lead to his use of deadly force against Martin by not identifying himself to Martin along with reaching into his jacket pocket to get his 'cell phone' (that he admitted later was not even in his jacket pocket) when he found and ultimately killed Trayvon.
[Quote]Malice, in the legal sense, is defined as:
malice n. a conscious, intentional wrongdoing either of a civil wrong like libel (false written statement about another) or a criminal act like assault or murder, with the intention of doing harm to the victim. This intention includes ill-will, hatred, or total disregard for the other's well-being.
Here are some facts that are in evidence that I believe indicate Zimmerman was acting with malice (ill-will and disregard for the other's well being) as he searched for Trayvon:
- Here are some facts that are in evidence that I believe indicate Zimmerman was acting with malice (ill-will and disregard for the other's well being) as he searched for Trayvon:
1. He thought Travyon was in his late teens and cursed when Trayvon started "running" away from him.
2. He told Detectives he never thought Trayvon had a firearm.
3. He told Detectives he was never scared of, nor intimidated by Trayvon, while Zimmerman was "monitoring" and "following" Trayvon by car.
4. Zimmerman told Detectives that when he was in his car, his state-of-mind was that Trayvon as an "unarmed" "punk" who "victimizes neighborhoods."
5. At the very second Trayvon started "running" away from Zimmerman, he grabbed two flashlights and had his loaded weapon with one in the chamber with no external safety feature down his pants searching for the unarmed "asshole" teenage "punk" who was "running" away from Zimmerman.
6. Zimmerman told detectives he "forgot" he was carrying his loaded weapon with one in the chamber and no external safety mechanism.
7. Zimmerman told detectives after he 'shot' Trayvon, he held on to his loaded firearm as he got on top Trayvon's back to restrain Trayvon until officers arrived.
8. Zimmerman told detectives he fell down on to his back as soon as Trayvon allegedly punched him the first time.
9. Zimmerman's state-of-mind: in written statement he wrote that 911 Dispatch told him not to follow Trayvon.
10. Detectives told Zimmerman he had no authority to monitor Trayvon Martin that night. Sanford Police Department did not authorize Zimmerman to "follow" Trayvon Martin.
11. Detectives told Zimmerman that Trayvon Martin had a legal right to defend himself against Zimmerman
12. Zimmerman refers to Trayvon Martin as "the suspect" throughout his entire written statement
13. Zimmerman wrote in a statement that Trayvon Martin "saw his exposed fire arm."
It is not "illegal" to follow people, it might not even be illegal to search for someone who is not committing a crime but who is running away from you -- maybe that's why predators search for their prey in public.
- Some people say if Martin threw the first punch then Zimmerman has a "self defense" claim because that would somehow 'mean' Martin "confronted" Zimmerman. Which I disagree with, in part, because Martin already proved he did not want any type of confrontation with Zimmerman when he employed the "duty to retreat" and started "running" away from Zimmerman. Some people may think that a predator who is searching for their prey, when their prey started "running" away from them, that the prey has no right to try fight their way out of the situation prior to the predator touching them but that is not what FBI agents imply:
Kick, bite, and no matter what the threat, do not go along with your kidnapper. Once he takes you away, your chances of survival greatly diminish. Yell, scream, fight and run from any potential abductor.
- Clint Van Zandt, a former FBI profiler and hostage negotiator 2009
People have a right to defend themselves from the threat of physical injury when a predator, they have already started "running" away from, searches for them and finds them. In Trayvon Martin's case, any belief that Zimmerman meant to cause physical harm to Trayvon was reasonable given the fact that Trayvon knew Zimmerman was following him by car and then searched for and found him after he started "running" away from Zimmerman. Which goes back to Zimmerman precipitated the confrontation and provoked a conflict and created the circumstances that directly lead to his use of deadly force against Martin.
Trayvon Martin had no way of knowing what Zimmerman wanted because when Zimmerman found him, he admits, he never identified himself. And, when he found Martin, Zimmerman also admits he started "reaching in his jacket pocket to get" his cellphone (which he later admitted was not in his jacket pocket and which he never got out.) For all Trayvon knew, Zimmerman was a potential abductor who was reaching in his pocket for his gun and who was going to try to rape him. Maybe Trayvon was "running" away from him because he thought Zimmerman was a predator who meant to harm him. I do not think the law allows a predator to search for their prey and at the same time does not allow the prey to fight like hell to get away from a predator and if there is such a law giving predators that much control over the prey they are searching for, I would like it if someone would cite that law for me.
If Martin did punch Zimmerman, and I do not think the Autopsy Report supports that, but if he did, then that means Trayvon Martin followed the advice of the FBI Agent who said: run from and fight your potential abductor.
We know from Zimmerman's 911 call that Trayvon Martin was not committing any crime and he saw Zimmerman was following him. So, rather than "stand his ground" Martin willfully, knowingly and with forethought started "running" away from him. It was at that moment, Zimmerman willfully, knowingly and with forethought grabbed two flashlights, had his loaded firearm with one in the chamber and no external safety feature to search for the "unarmed, teenage, punk, suspect," who "vandalizes neighborhoods" and who was running away from him.
Martin's actions show he was trying to avoid a confrontation whereas Zimmerman actions show he provoked a conflict and created the circumstances that directly lead to his use of deadly force against Martin.
That said, Zimmerman's "state-of-mind" before, during and after he searched for Trayvon and killed Trayvon is important:
To Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin was "the suspect." In criminal law, a suspect is someone who is under suspicion, often formally announced as being under investigation by law enforcement officials. Therefore, evidence shows that before and during his search for Trayvon that night, Zimmerman's state-of-mind was that Trayvon was an: "unarmed, asshole, teenage punk, suspect" who "victimizes neighborhoods" who needed to be "restrained" even after Zimmerman killed him.
To me, just looking at that evidence alone shows Zimmerman searched for and killed Trayvon Martin out of malice. And it is that malice from Zimmerman that "precipitated the confrontation" which resulted in dragging Trayvon into an altercation.
- [1:39] Zimmerman: OK. These assholes. They always get away.
When you come to the clubhouse, you come straight in and you go left. Actually, you would go past the clubhouse.
dispatcher: OK, so it’s on the left hand side of the clubhouse?
[2:08] Zimmerman: Yeah. You go in straight through the entrance and then you would go left. You go straight in, don’t turn and make a left. SHIT HE's RUNNING. (bells from door opening and Zimmerman breathing harder heard)
DETECTIVE: He’s reaching in his waistband?
DETECTIVE: So what do you think there’s a possibility that he has?
ZIMMERMAN: Well, the guy 3 weeks, 2 weeks prior, did the same thing when he saw me, like put his hand in his jacket and watched me walk by and then he lit a cigarette. So I thought that he was just trying to, um, look tough or intimidate.
DETECTIVE: So, you did not think he had a weapon?
ZIMMERMAN: No, no. I did not.
DETECTIVE: You thought he was just trying to bluff you.
DETECTIVE: Hey, did that scare you? The bluff?
(plays tape 1:28 to 1:34)
DETECTIVE: That statement. These assholes…what’s behind that?
ZIMMERMAN: People that victimize the neighborhood.
DETECTIVE: What is that you’re whispering? Fucking what?
DETECTIVE: Fucking punks. He wasn’t a fucking punk. (clears throat)
(plays tape 2:17 to 2:26)
- Zimmerman: I was on top of him, straddling him, he was face down, when he kept hitting me in the face it felt like something was in his hands, so I thought he had a weapon, so I grabbed his hands and pushed them away from his body, and I said, "STOP! Don't move." He was saying something like "ahhhh ahhhhh and cursing" and I said, "STOP, don't move" and then somebody came and had a flashlight and I thought was a cop and I said - oh and I still had my gun in my hand as I was holding his hands apart and I said are you a cop he said "no" but I'll call them. I said, "I don't need you to do that I need you to help me restrain this guy."
- r519 is clearly ignorant and should not post again about legal proceedings.
- "The dispatcher told me not to follow the suspect & that an officer was in route."
~Excerpt from Zimmerman's written statement 2/26/2012
- DETECTIVE: you don’t have the authority to go ahead and do the stop legally. You follow, I mean.
DETECTIVE: You’re working under the color of an absolutely private citizen.
DETECTIVE: And, but then again, we can make citizens’ arrests all day long. I mean, for felonies. Problem was that this child was not committing a felony at the time. He was just walking.
OK, so by not, were you, your job’s not to really to do anything at all when it comes to that kind of, it wasn’t your job to monitor him either. I mean, had that been done, and that’s, you know, and from our vantage point, you’ve had 2 opportunities to identify yourself as somebody who was actually not meaning to do him harm. Problem being, is that we’re visiting in his mind’s eye, which I can’t get into because he’s passed, that he perceives you as a threat. OK, he perceives you as a threat, he has every right to go and defend himself, especially when you reach into your pocket to grab a cell phone. OK, where I’m gravitating to here is to say that I guess that, this, could that have been a possibility for him getting so enraged at you? What do you think his mindset was? I’m telling you right now, the kid has no violent background, no violent tendencies that we can find, um, what made him snap? He’s not on drugs, um, can you fill in that blank?
- I think the defense committed a potentially serious tactical error by asking for a Frye hearing this close to trial because they have little or no chance to win and the hearing creates an opportunity for the State to remind everyone that their experts have excluded the defendant as the source of the death shriek.
- DAMN R530
Is there a reason you decided to make your post take up 10 slots? Are you getting nervous or what?
I think r528/r529 scared the bejesus out of you!
- R537 does not have the IQ of a hamster. Sit down, adults are talking.
- actually, r541 et al has eloquently spelled out what I've felt all along, and what baffled me with this case: People are so fucking racist if not bigoted in this country that they've turned a very clear-cut case into this blame the victim nonsense. This asshole initiated a deadly confrontation with an innocent kid. Stand your ground? Does that mean chasing someone with a gun who is running away from you and whom you saw commit no crime?
- More like misleading and rambling. Ignorant jackasses can't even differentiate between the state and the defense.
What a surprise, r541! You also think some Texas incident that next to no one has heard about will effect the jury pool for the Zimmerman trial. LOL
- r530 will go postal when Zimmerman is found not guilty.
- I doubt "next to no one" heard about this just because it slipped past you. I heard about it. My friends and acquaintances heard about it,... I don't know how much of a difference it would make but you'd have to be beyond stupid to think there's no way anyone on that jury will have heard about it.
That said, I don't think it matters, "wide as all outside" will be convicted based on the evidence.
- Another thing I'm noticing lately is the grasp rabid, delusional Zimmerman supporters have on reality is evaporating. Their arguments are just getting louder and more childish.
- If he is found not guilty, it will be from a miscarriage of justice or racist jury. But I don't think he will be found not guilty.
- Roughly 102 posts by r530. That's one hundred and two.
I say roughly because my eyes were glazing over.
- That certainly explains the OJ Simpson verdict, r549.
- Goodnight r550! Sweet dreams!
- [quote]That certainly explains the OJ Simpson verdict, [R549].
R551, don't be stupid, BlowJay Simpson was a WEALTHY, FAMOUS ATHLETE.
Fats Zimmino is not.
- No it's not....
It was a miscarriage of justice due to an ignorant, racist black jury that had a sprinkle of intimidated(by the thought of riots) whites, etc.
- Zimmerman will walk. Look what happened to that mother in florida killing her little baby girl, She walked.
- Yes, because the fact that O.J. And Casey Anthony walked, assures that The fat man will as well. (Eyeroll)
- [quote] Jeralyn Merritt is not a reliable source. She is a defense attorney who has completely turned TalkLeft into the pro-Zimmerman site. She censors those critical of Zimmerman.
If someone questions evidence against GZ, she'll delete the comment as "speculation." Yet, if someone speculates how based on the photos, Trayvon attacked GZ, Merritt would leave the comment and the replies alone.
Merritt has no stake in this case. She is an observer albeit an observer who understands the law unlike most people commenting on this case. After reviewing evidence, listening to the tapes, etc. she came to a conclusion. She doesn't 't become unreliable because she disagrees with you - which is all you've got as a means to call her "unreliable."
She absolutely does allow dissent and other opinions. She does not allow people to post libelous statements not supported by evidence and she seems to be very careful to ensure that posts don't include false information or a misrepresentation of the facts as we know them so far.
Any time she deletes a post she explains why. If someone has an opinion or makes an inference from evidence then she expects people to make it clear it's an opinion and to not represent their opinions as facts. You are free to disagree with her opinion but you are not free to falsely claim things as facts when they have not been established as fact yet.
This is why I trust her site - she's got no dog in this fight (the fact she is a defense attorney does not alter that fact) and she understand the difference between evidence and opinion. And no one on this earth could accuse her of being a racist or wanting to see a young African American male killed.
[quote] If someone questions evidence against GZ, she'll delete the comment as "speculation." Yet, if someone speculates how based on the photos, Trayvon attacked GZ, Merritt would leave the comment and the replies alone.
Again you are incorrect with your sweeping statements. If there is no evidence to support your opinion then you can't post your opinion as evidence. There was evidence to support GZ's claim he was attacked by TM which include the wounds as photographed and filmed, the wounds seen by a civilian witness on the scene and also photographed by that witness, medical reports, and other reports by neighborhood witnesses who saw TM on top of GZ making movements that looked to them like an assault on GZ under him on the ground.
Plus whether you believe him or not, Te statements of GZ that TM attacked him is uncontradicted evidence at this point.
You thought Merritt was fair minded before and now because she disagrees with you you change your mind?
- Zimmerman thought he was going to call in that he spotted a criminal, shoot him, and then get a hero's welcome that he "got the bad guy."
How'd that work out for him?
- A vigilante decided a kid was "suspicious" and stalked and chased him. He wasn't standing any fucking ground. Trayvon was standing his ground if/when he fought back against the nutjob chasing him with a gun.
- I agree with r558.
IMO, Zimmerman was the one burglarizing his own neighborhood. As NW Captain, he was literally a wolf watching the hen house.
He wanted either a patsy to blame his own robberies on, or a victim he could shoot to death.
He should be pleading insanity.
- Right R481 but Trayvon is Black.
- Trayvon didn't know Zimmerman had a gun. It was concealed under his shirt.
Zimmerman didn't pull it out until he was on his back and being pummeled by Martin.
- R562 in the transcripts Z said that M saw the gun.
- I believe Martin saw it when Zimmerman was trying to pull it out from his waistband.
According to Zimmerman... Once shot, Martin said you got me.
- I realize I'm going to get some crazy answers from Zimmerman supporters but I have to ask this question.
Why would someone who is carrying a gun have to scream for help? If I had a gun on me and someone was beating me up I'd just go for the gun and shoot. There would be no time or need for pleading. In the time that whimpering and pleading went on in that tape, I could have reached for my gun several times.
There was no scuffle for the gun involved, George had it on him the whole time. The only logical explanation is George did pull his gun and Trayvon was pleading for his life. This makes sense considering Martin is the one who ended up dead.
The other thing is if someone is kicking your ass and you are making any sound at all it would also be logical that you would hear evidence of that in the vocal. It would sound halting or breathy or choked off due to the movement of the body and due to the blows to the body. Some of the sounds would probably be swallowed as well. It does not sound in that tape that the screamer was being punched. It sounds like clear yelling, full breath screaming.
- I think the killer had his gun out, caught the kid, and restrained him.
That's when Trayvon first started yelling for help. He saw a gun pointing at him, and he was terrified.
You can hear the terror is his screams.
I think that Zimmerman told his victim, sotto groce, to shut up.
Trayvon's hoodie had been stretched, and he was shot from an intermediate range.
The killer was restraining him. Trayvon was trying to get away from George Zimmerman when he was shot to death.
Can Zimmerman get the death penalty in this case....?
- Soto voce.
- Duh r565.
Zimmerman, with gun concealed in waistband, was walking back to his car when Martin jumped him. It caught Zimmerman by complete surprise and gave Martin the upperhand.
If you were completely surprised and jumped from behind, do you think you would initially be in a position of strength.
No, you would be screaming, too, and trying to get some kind of control over the situation.
- ***crickets*** from the Zimbot supports,r565. They don't deal in intelligence and facts,just name calling and bullying to make their 'point'.
I also would like to know from the Zimbots what they think is the proper punishment for this murderer. Zimmerman broke all kinds of laws -before and after Trayvon's murder. This crazed, wild, gun toting,child stalker/murderer/animal George Zimmerman should not be set free as some sort of reward for killing an unarmed teen for a confrontation that Zimmerman instigated! If you stalk and try to physically assault/ molest me like Zimmerman did Trayvon, you're lucky I don't smash your head like a coconut to get away. The Zimbots are nuts to even suggest that Trayvon should have just stood there with his hands by his side while a complete stranger attacked him! Do they give the same 'helpful advice'to the woman and children in their own families?
They are as crazy and sick as their fat, shlubby 'hero',Zimmerman.'
Maybe they're tired of dealing with the 104 post craziness of r53O or the straight up stupidity of the likes of r502 and r519.
- I've heard interviews that Zimmerman gave to a couple of different detectives on youtube. I don't remember anywhere in the retelling of his story where he states he shouted for help.
Logically, if you're telling a story like this wouldn't you eventually state,"...and then I started to scream for help at the top of my lungs hoping somebody would hear me..."
Does he ever say this anywhere??
- R571, it was one of the very first things he said to police, "I yelled for help but nobody came."
He even let them record a sample of how he yelled for help in an interrogation.
He yelled, "help! Help. Help!" They were short and rapid, not long and harrowing.
When Det. Serino played the recording of the scream, Zimmerman said, that doesn't even sound like me."
- R568,Are you still here, lurking in the shadows,like your idol,that grotesque Zimnerman did that night he stalked and murdered Trayvon? God,you're pathetic-still trying to ship that made up Zimbot fan fiction,hoping that if you repeat it enough times that 'the lie becomes the truth'?
Ain't never gonna happen,gurl!
Even if you and the other Zimbots get your cherished wish of seeing that child murderer George Zimnerman unleashed on the public again-it will never change the actual FACTS of the case-that Trayvon was stalked and killed by a complete stranger who instigated the confrontation!
If I were you,I would not be posting outright LIES against a murdered kid. Everything you've posted so far has been insensitive to Trayvon's family and has contributed to the falsehood that all teens of color are guilty until proven otherwise.
KARMA has a delicious way of leveling the score-and posting lies anonymously on a website does not make you immune to it.
- How would Zimbicile live a normal life if he got away with murder? How do people like Casey Anthony do it? Who hires them? Who befriends them? Are they always looking over their shoulders?
I can't imagine living in infamy that way.
- The only way Zimmerman is gonna lose weight is going to jail!
Otherwise, it's blob city for him.
- "I think the killer had his gun out, caught the kid, and restrained him."
Yeah, the pudgy, out of shape Zimmerman was able to "catch" and "restrain" the athletic, lighter, younger Martin. You're grasping at straws, honey. Traybots tend to do that.
- I still can't believe people don't understand that the law is clear -- if you feel fearful/intimidated, that your life might be in danger, you can shoot to kill. It's subjective. The only reason why Zimmerman was re-arrested is because their was outrage. The police let him go initially because they understood the law. This trial is a farce. They're doing it because they fear a race riot. Who was on top of who, who shouted, is irrelevant. Florida is a shithole. They let a bunch of people off for killing people under the Stand Your Ground law in just the last two months. This is also the state where you can shoot from your car. Just be aware that this is a state full of trash.
- Why did they wait to release all this stuff now?
"George Zimmerman's Defense Releases Trayvon Martin's Own Cellphone Video Recording"
SANFORD, Fla. — Experts dispute whose voice is heard in the background of a 911 call from the night Trayvon Martin was shot and killed.
A police detective, Chris Serino, wrote in an early report that he could hear a man yelling “Help” or “Help Me” 14 times. Prosecutors say the voice is Martin’s. Defense lawyers say it could be George Zimmerman, who they say was being pummeled by Martin.
Now, as Zimmerman prepares to go on trial on a charge of second-degree murder, a video has been released that the defense says could help authenticate the 911 call. But lawyers for Martin’s family say it doesn’t belong in court.
The video, which the defense says was extracted from Martin’s phone, shows two men fighting, apparently over a bicycle or an incident involving a bicycle. Zimmerman’s lawyers say Martin took the video, and that a voice on the recording is his. The person recording is not seen.
Under Florida evidence-sharing rules, prosecutors and the defense have had the clip for some time. The video was released by Zimmerman’s defense through a website where his lawyers have been posting press releases and possible evidence.
Members of Zimmerman’s defense team say they have a policy of making evidence in the case available to the public, and that the tape is the only known sample of Martin’s voice.
It’s unclear whether the video will be allowed into evidence. Asked whether it could be used in a way damaging to Martin’s image, Shawn Vincent, a spokesman for the defense, said: “The answer is we hope it doesn’t.”
Kendall Coffey, an NBC News legal analyst, said that Zimmerman’s lawyers would have to show that the video is relevant enough to the case to overcome its potential for prejudicing the jury.
“You’re not supposed to be acquitted or convicted based simply on what happened before the night in question,” Coffey said. “You have to demonstrate that past information proves what may have happened that night.”
Because the video does not show what happened the night Martin was killed, Coffey said, “The question then becomes: What does it show?”
The video came to public attention after it was mischaracterized during a recent hearing, when defense attorney Mark O’Mara said the material depicted Martin’s friends beating up a homeless man.
The defense later issued an apology and clarified the nature of the recording. Vincent said that the video was released in part to further correct the record.
NBC News has not independently authenticated that the voice is Martin’s. Ben Crump, a lawyer for the Martin family, says that Martin’s own mother isn’t sure it’s his voice. Another lawyer for the family, Daryl Parks, says that’s not the issue.
“The tape does not belong in the court,” he said.
In a June 5 order, Judge Debra Nelson said text messages from Martin’s phone could not be used in opening statements by either side. During the trial, she ruled, lawyers will have to argue the relevance of the material before jurors see it.
The judge also has yet to determine whether a jury will hear from experts about the screams on the 911 tape. Testimony from experts in recent days conflicts: A state expert says the person screaming is Martin; defense experts say it’s impossible to tell.
The testimony came as part of an ongoing hearing to determine whether jurors will hear from experts on either side. The judge will have to decide whether research on the tapes meets appropriate scientific standards.
Zimmerman has pleaded not guilty to the charge of second-degree murder. Jury selection begins Monday. Five hundred jury summonses have been issued, and it is expected to take two weeks to choose six jurors and several alternates.
Editor’s note: George Zimmerman has sued NBCUniversal for defamation. The company has strongly denied his allegations.
- [quote] The police let him go initially because they understood the law.
Actually, the initial investigator thought his story was inconsistent with the evidence and wanted to charge him. His decision was overturned because Zimmerman's daddy has connections.
- [quote] “You’re not supposed to be acquitted or convicted based simply on what happened before the night in question,” Coffey said.
That protection goes to the defendant - not a witness or victim. In any event, Coffey is setting up a straw man because no one is saying this. But what happened before that night can be highly relevant in explaining or illuminating what happened that night. Events rarely exist in a vacuum.
[quote] “You have to demonstrate that past information proves what may have happened that night." . . . Because the video does not show what happened the night Martin was killed, Coffey said, “The question then becomes: What does it show?”
The voice on the video is evidence of what Martin's voice sounded like. It would be helpful for the jury to hear for themselves and compare voices. Experts are not supposed to substitute for the jury's own determination of evidence. Jurors are free to accept or disregard the testimony or evidence proffered by experts. They are free to make up their own minds. So that is what it shows and will be used for.
- It's almost hysterical that now all of a sudden you want to talk about 'laws',r577,ET AL,when it is abundantly clear that Zimmerman was the one breaking the law-trying to detain and kidnap a teenager against his will with NO LEGAL authority whatsoever-a common criminal with a growing list of rap sheets/mugshots.
And spare me the bullshit about 'race riots'. People of color have been shot down like dogs for years and order has been maintained for he most part. Maybe if the police had done their job properly and thrown that child murderer in jail that very night you wouldn't have be be clutching your pearls!!
And my mother,who is a very wide woman, always used to tell me-"If you didn't do anything wrong,then you have nothing to fear." The republic will not fall if this George Zimmerman, the Stalker and Child Murderer,is RIGHTFULLY thrown in jail where he belongs. Besides his obvious guilt, has he contributed anything of value to society? Of course not, so why all the handwringing over this miserable shlubb?
If this grotesque is exonerated despite all the FACTS that point to his guilt,the state of Florida has no one to blame but itself. Get over this bizarre idolization of your hero Zimmerman,and find a more worthier cause to champion, like making sure stalkers are not allowed to stalk and murder unarmed children Nd then claim self defense!
- Wise woman!
- Witness 6. He is a neighbor who, by describing the clothing they wore and the color of their skin, said he saw Trayvon on top, beating or pushing down on Zimmerman "MMA-style."
The "on top" says it all. Self defense for GZ.
- Oh, and weirdo @ R581 (and your wide mother)... Settle down, hon. You'll strain something with all of those hysterics.
- r581 most of the black murder has been done by other black people. Look up the stats.
- [quote]I still can't believe people don't understand that the law is clear -- if you feel fearful/intimidated, that your life might be in danger, you can shoot to kill. It's subjective.
And just how is it that this same standard doesn't apply to Trayvon Martin? I fully understand that he's not the one on trial here but it seems absurd to me that some want to paint him as the aggressor when by Zimmerman's own account HE decided the kid was "up to good", followed him, apparently swung around to station himself in the way of Martin's only path home (going by the placement of Zimmerman's car) and then LEFT the safety of his car to give chase rather than take the rational course of returning the safety of his won nearby home, apparently on the same damn street, to wait for police.
WTF reason did Zimmerman have to feel fearful or threatened? Zero. Zip. Nada. Trayvon Martin OTOH had every reason to feel threatened and fight for his own life.
By the way, if the law is "clear" then it's not "subjective." Every delusional hothead with a gun doesn't have a blanket right to blow away anyone who simply doesn't look right to their pea brains. Not even in Florida.
- Trayvon was stalked and killed, like an animal. Zimmerman should be a dead man. The sooner, the better.
- Name calling, again,r584? TRUTH hurts,doesn't it? You Zimbots don't have a leg to stand on in this case! Get over your stupid race based fears-maybe if you stopped taking advantage of your color priviledge in this society you wouldn't be so paranoid!
I know it's hard to believe, but people of color were not put on this earth to be cannon fodder just because racists like you and Zimmerman feel uncomfortable in your own skin. You really think that sends a proper message that some disgusting pig like Zimmerman can kill an unarmed citizen just because and get away with it?
As my WISE old mother use to say,"The TRUTH is Immobile-it does not bend nor break for LIES". In other words, you crazy fool, all your name calling and made up tales about what happened that night does not change the FACTS-that Zimmerman did attempt to stalk and molest an unarmed teenage boy-Trayvon Martin-who resisted his advances and was in fact murdered by the perpetrator-George Zimmerman-as a result. Zimmerman, who showed a depraved indifference to human life, did in FACT ignore a request from an operator to stand down and not further exacerbate a situation that Zimmerman instigated on his own as a PRIVATE CITIZEN-with no legal authority or cause-despite false and persistent claims by the media that Zimmerman was a neighborhood watch 'captain' on official duty that night-a claim that has since been disproven by the FACTS.
With those FACTS in mind,it should take the court no time at all to come to the proper resolution in this case: lock George Zimmerman up for premeditated first degree murder and throw away the key!
- Zimmerman's a Latino who speaks Spanish. Why are you calling him a racist?
- Why does a thread like this get 590 posts?
- R583, if that's true, the Stand Your Ground Law applies to Trayvon. Zimmerman had no right to stalk or confront him and if he felt threatened by Zimmerman, he had every right to defend himself from that thug with a gun.
- Per r589, do racists really believe that only WASPs are racially prejudice ?
- Trayvon justice group tries to rig the jury...
- Zimmerman is gonna fry!
- Trayvon Martin isn't on trial. George Zimmerman is. And his past includes an actual assault arrest, for domestic abuse and assaulting a police officer.
The thug in practice trumps the thug in theory.
But keep smearing. It reminds us that racist creeps are still out there.
- [quote] Trayvon Martin isn't on trial
That's not quite true. In a case of self-defense the the victim is "put on trial" so to speak. The victim's past and character become relevant for various purposes such as on the issue of who was the first aggressor.
Unless Zimmerman puts on a character witness who testifies to his character for peacefulness/non-violence then none of his arrests should come in. If GZ testifies (which a defendant almost always has to do in a self-defense claim) then his prior convictions should come in for impeachment purposes (that's convictions - not arrests), however misdemeanor assaults are not impeachable offenses. Now maybe Florida has a different evidentiary rules on these issues but that's how it is in my jurisdiction (D.C.) and in federal court.
- R597, the judge has already ruled, basically, that TM is not on trial: she's not allowing the content from his cell phone in, nor his school records.
In order to prove self-defense, the killer needs physical evidence. It doesn't matter what the victim's grades were; he had no offensive injuries, nor did he have the killer's blood or DNA on him.
The "death scream" will sink GZ. Nobody can listen to that and honestly believe that was George Zimmerman begging for his life. No man armed with a gun cries like that. Especially against a skinny, unarmed kid.
Unfortunately, racists think black people have super human powers and are ticking time bombs. That's why so many think that TM viciously attacked the strange man following and trying to detain him. He magically appeared out of nowhere, and tried to kill the old man with the gun.
- [quote] ...nor did he have the killer's blood or DNA on him.
I don't even see how it's possible to break someone's nose and engage in a life-or-death struggle without getting that person's blood on you.
- [quote] don't even see how it's possible to break someone's nose and engage in a life-or-death struggle without getting that person's blood on you
As witnesses have already said, the person with the bloody nose was on the ground beneath the assailant. No one has said the assailant was lying flat on top of the guy on the ground. I imagine the struggle took all of a few seconds from when the guy on top went for the gun until he was shot. It is entirely possible that none of GZ blood got on TM. Though if I was the prosecution I would naturally argue the opposite.