Her husbands were Winston Churchill's son Randolph, the great producer Leland Hayward, and railway tycoon and politician W. Averell Harriman.
She had affairs with Edward R. Murrow, Jock Whitney, Prince Aly Khan, William S. Paley, racing car champion Alfonso de Portago, Gianni Agnelli, writer Maurice Druon, Stavros Niarchos, and Baron Elie de Rothschild.
What made her so irresistible to the wealthy and powerful?
She could suck a golf ball through a garden hose.
Now that's my kind of broad. Make her an X Factor judge.
An engorged vagina. I should know.
[quote]What made her so irresistible to the wealthy and powerful?
str8 men found her hot and she was a better actress than most of the actresses in movies/tv. she could pretend very convincingly that the powerful men who paid for her were total sex gods in bed. and she was a whore in the bedroom. daughter of a baron so it's not like she came from nothing. she grew up around rich and powerful men.
I guess we could surmise she had a trick pelvis.
Perhaps she greatly enjoyed cock. It has been known to happen.
She was completely attentive to whatever man she was with---it's not a mystery.
High-functioning female sociopath. While not particularly beautiful, she was obviously very intelligent and could "read" powerful men and find out what they were looking for, and provide it to them. They, in turn, provided her with the glamour and importance she craved.
See also: Cleopatra VII.
Doesn't this belong in the "Sex Trade at Cannes" thread???
"Yacht girl" indeed.
She was also US Ambassador to France, and the Froggies fell all over her. The most beloved emissary to Surrender Monkey Land since Franklin. When she died over there, Chirac and the whole damned country went into mourning, because the Frogs are all about wine, cheese, and classy courtesans.
She was a great listener, a great conversatonalist, loved a good story and could tell one. Men love a woman who has class and yet you can be open with - I'm not sure you would swear to her, but you could talk about who was a good lay. You could talk guy talk with her, just show some class when you did so.
I was in the Harriman home in on N Street in Georgetown on a number of occasions and met her, but did not really know her in any sense of the word. But she was quite the lady and one helluva broad. Waaay cool.
It always fascinates me what was considered beautiful back then and what's considered beautiful now. From the look at that photo at r9, Pamela would have been considered a dog by today's standards.
I don't think she was considered beautiful back then, R14. I think it was her other qualities that the other posters have mentioned that made her popular. Of her husbands, Leland Hayward had at least two wives more beautiful than her. She was attractive enough, had a good complexion and nice hair, but I don't think she was ever mistaken for a beauty. She also looked better when she was older.
Did Bill Paley cheat on Babe with Pamela? Babe Paley was one of the most beautiful socialites of her era. Pamela must have gave GREAT head and let them stick it in the backdoor....
New York society women looked down on her because it took her a very long time to find a 2nd husband after her marriage to Churchill. They believed she was a women men had affairs with, but did not marry.
In fact, Leland Hayward's wife, Slim Hawks, encouraged Pamela to spent time with her husband while she was on a vacation in Europe.
That was a huge mistake personally and money-wise, because Hayward was the co-producer of "The Sound of Music" and "Gypsy" on Broadway at the time.
[quote] Of her husbands, Leland Hayward had at least two wives more beautiful than her.
But she was the only one who was totally attentive to HIM.
.....that's the power of the pussy, baby.
R4, if you're going to presume to post here about matters about which your extensive use of Wikipedia leaves you feeling competent, please use proper capitalization to avoid the (probably correct) sense that you are a pretentious, sloppy, selfish twit.
Don't think that, just because the DL is the bastion of irrationality and hysteria, you can get away with that sort of shit.
A courtesan does not nag; never looks less than "camera-ready" (or the century's equivalent); never refuses ANYTHING sexual and often initiate it; laughs and praises often; gossips just enough but not so that the man of the hour thinks she will tattle on him; makes no demands; and is independent.
A couresan also never gets along with the children and grandchildren, which certainly happened to Hayward's and Harriman's families.
NY society ladies liked to look down on Pam, but really, they all had the same job and she did it with a lot of wit and style.
Sounds like she knew the secret of how to make the person she's talking to feel like the only person in the room. That kind of attentiveness is very attractive. A lot of attraction is more about the personality than the physical appearance. Keep someone intrigued and they'll keep coming back.
Someone (Robin Williams?) said that Truman Capote & Walter Winchell would be lunching at the best restaurant in Heaven when she arrived, but she'd ignore them & they'd say to each other: "there goes Pamela, headed straight for God's table".
[quote]Did Bill Paley cheat on Babe with Pamela? Babe Paley was one of the most beautiful socialites of her era. Pamela must have gave GREAT head and let them stick it in the backdoor....
Bill Paley had an affair with Pamela Churchill (as she was known then) right after WWII while he was still married to Dorothy Hart Hearst (whom he divorced in 1947 to marry Barbara "Babe" Cushing Mortimer). He had affairs with many women during both marriages--he was a big pussyhound. Among his many conquests: Marie Harriman, Louise Brooks, Grace Kelly.
R28, Gloria Vanderbilt says she was one of his conquests too (or vice versa).
The weird thing about the big members of the Jet Set is they all slept with one another. They were almost pathological about cheating on their spouses with one another.
Yeah, R21, ride that bitch!
President seemed to like her. You guys all seem to know so much, but not much mention of that here. Get and read "Life of the Party: the Biography of Pamela Digby Churchill Hayward Harriman" by Christopher Ogden. All the gossip here, and more. Great read! Lots of fun.
The Sally Bedell Smith book on Pam is also very good. I have that and the Ogden title, both cover a lot of ground and name a lot of names.
She used the Churchill name and "child" to get her in the door.
She had a serious rival in the Duchess of Argyll. The Duchess also liked to tarry with married men from time to time and was also considered a great beauty in her time.
There were Polaroids taken of her giving head to a naked "headless" man while she was wearing only a pearl necklace. His head was cut off by the angle of the camera. There were also pictures of a man jerking off in the same room. They were both identified much later on. Fun story.
How does everyone think Jackie Kennedy Onassis stacked up compared to Pamela? Many people think Jackie O was America's answer to Pamela's taste for many things.
Pamela was looked down upon by society women because she had little wit and style, just the determination of a bulldog. Few liked her before or after she married Leland Hatward.
She had the best plastic surgery of all time. She was so much more attractive afterwards.
She stole Leland Hayward away from Slim Keith. Babe Paley made sure he was an extra man at one of her parties so Harriman wouldn't go after her own husband Bill. Slim was destroyed. Hayward was the love of her life. Slim then moved to England and married a nobleman who gave her everything in the world except the feeling she had when she was with Hayward. Harriman was a Class-One, Armor-plated bitch in high heels. And yes, she would make the man the center of her world in order to keep him. It was like high-class prostitution -- the Girlfriend Experience -- and it goes on today. The women who marry into wealth always turn out to be the worst snobs. Harriman was a little different. She could talk about anything.
Great unauthorized biography is REFLECTED GLORY. I also love the name because everytime I see it I hear the voice of Homer Simpson bellowing it.
[quote]She could suck a golf ball through a garden hose.
How do you think I got to be First Lady? Certainly not for my ample bosom, lol!
Wealthy guys go after each other's stuff, that's all. Fuck enough rich guys and you become an object other rich guys want. That's all.
There is too much praise for Pamela on this thread. She was a complete evil bitch from what I have read. Pamela did not like her son that she had with Churchill and she was very horrible to him. When Leland Hayward died, she grab the estate away from his children ,and they asked her to give them a pearl necklace ,which originally belonged to their mother that was all that they were asking for because it meant a great deal of sentiment to them. She refused and they never got the necklace.Ye the greedy bitch got everything else in the estate. They said she could have bought another exquisite pearl necklace if she wanted to ,but she was just being evil. Why didn't someone deport her back to frumpy old England?!
I remember Susie Lee on DL said Pamela was a royal bitch and everyone hated her. Susie said that Pamela went through Leland's estate to the point there was nothing left and it become penniless.
They said Pamela had exquisite and impeccable taste.
BTW, from those pictures and others, she looked like the usual British butt ugly frump. She wasn't pretty at all. However, she could put on the BS for men ,and I guess she had great sex skills? She got to be ambassador by having sex with Bill Clinton.
I'm not a frau ,but this shows men are such complete idiots who will fall for some phony woman coming along and stroke their egos,and tell them anything and everything they want to here about themselves. Yet, women like this probably want to puke through out the whole type they are with men that they are using. I think these guys deserved to be taken advantage of because they were creeps for playing around on their wives who constantly stressed themselves out to be perfect for their husbands. I once read that Babe Paley went through a lot of stress to be everything for her husband. Ironically she died of cancer and cancer sometimes can be caused by stress.
Pamela Harriman had much more trouble with the Harriman children after his death. R44 is correct; she has been treated much too kindly here.
Cancer cannot be caused by stress. And Babe Paley was no saint either--she was a very selfish, self-absorbed, materialistic woman.
But I agree otherwise with everything r44 said.
Brooke Hayward showed her for what she was in her memoir "Haywire." After the suicide of her sister Bridget, Brooke and Pamela went to Bridget's apartment to find something for her to wear at her burial. They found two pearl necklaces that had been assembled pearl by pearl over the length of their childhoods by their mother Margaret Sullavan. Sullavan paid for the necklaces, diamond clasps and all, by playing high stakes Hearts with Sam Goldwyn, David O. Selznick, Herman Mankiewicz and Leland Hayward. They were so valuable Bridget and Brooke never had "the nerve" to wear them. There was also a large emerald ring that Leland Hayward had given their mother. Brooke said: "When Pamela saw them that day, she pointed out that they would be much safer with her. Pamela had a priceless jewelry collection that reposed in her custom-built safe, a series of drawers, each with an individual combination, which rose grandly from the floor to the ceiling of her closet. I was in no mood to defend my irresponsibility, so away went the pearls and the emerald. Ten years later, when I asked to have them back for my own daughter, they had vanished."
I like Pamela Harriman. She beat all those other old society bags at their own game. The Bedell Smith and Christopher Ogden biographies are a lot of fun to read.
Yes, she was the epitome of the 'Evil Step Mother' . There was a great Vanity Fair article about it, after she died. And I remember Peter Duchin, who was really an unofficially adopted son of Averell Harriman, talked once of a little cottage he remembered staying in, on the enormous Harriman estate , when he was a teen, and even into his 20's . Averell promised Duchin he would inherit it , on his death. The property was over 100 acres, so one could visit the cottage, and never even get near the main house, grounds. Anyway , when her husband died, Pamela found a loophole, re the estate, and made sure that even the cottage would be hers , and not Duchin's . She power grabbed everything - and as others have pointed out , even things of no importance to her, but that meant a lot to others . That's greed, and as been said, just being an evil bitch.
Who were her heirs? Did her son maintain contact with her? I read the VF article when it was published but can't remember what became of him. Randolph was a hopeless drunk so his dad was probably of no use to him. Probably got shuffled off to boarding school and saw her rarely, which was likely a good thing if he had caring nannies.
See "Queen Bee" thread
Babe Paley was an immaculately dressed, chic, bloodless mannequin. You could not invent a more sexless WASP ice princess if you tried.
Bill Paley was a sex addict with (allegedly) a famously huge penis who nailed every woman in the society pages in little old New York.
What a couple.
She must have done some things men never ask of ladies. That's how she did it. A beauty could pull this off on looks alone but this English crabrose HAD to of been tolerant of various fetishes. That's the only way plain janes ever get anything. They're brutal but it is because they have to be. See: Isabella Blow for how looks don't matter in fashion.
Harriman wasn't one of Capote's "Swans," was she?
No, not nearly ornamental and vacant enough, R54.
[quote]See: Isabella Blow for how looks don't matter in fashion.
Isabella Blow repeatedly tried to kill herself and finally succeeded after drinking insecticide or herbicide.
Brooke Astor was another one. A goodlooking girl from New Hampshire named Roberta, she played a good game of matrimonial cards.
And no one could beat the Cushing Sisters. Minnie married Vincent Astor, Betsy married Jock Whitney, and Babe married Bill Paley.
LOL at R55.
Please, R57, tell us more. Especially Brooke.
Actually, Pamela Harriman was included among Capote's "swans," though she was not central to the group as he conceived it--from the Marella Agnelli page on wikipedia:
[quote]The reserved, patrician tastemaker and socialite is also known for her inclusion in Truman Capote's famous circle of 'swans'— wealthy, stylish, and well-married women friends whose company he adored because they 'had created themselves, as he had done,' and 'had stories to tell.' According to Capote, Agnelli was 'the European swan numero uno,' the youngest in a group that included Babe Paley, Gloria Guinness, C. Z. Guest, Slim Keith, and Pamela Harriman, among others. In her autobiography, Washington Post publisher and Capote friend Katharine Graham recounts that the author once told her that if Paley and Agnelli were 'both in Tiffany's window, Marella would be more expensive'
Pamela Harriman was actually the original for "Lady Coolbirth" in Capote's notorious short story "La Cote Basque," according to Sally Bedell Smith, although Lady Slim Keith assumed the character was based on herself and (like most of the "Swans") banished Capote from her life after it was published.
Well that's the funny part, R59, Minnie Cushing Astor picked Brooke as her successor. Brooke was kind of the last girl on the conga line and was more than willing to suffer through life with Vinnie, who was a real drag, possibly in more ways than one. Many stories have been told of Vincent Astor's attempts to replace the irreplaceable and notably Sapphic Minnie. Social women would be horrified if they attracted his attention at parties. There would be the spontaneous, awkward proposal: "If you marry me, you will inherit everything. And my doctors tell me I don't have long to live." "But Vincent, what if your doctors are wrong?!"
Minnie got off a few good ones herself. One time she was confronted by the Duchess of Windsor who complained bitterly that not only had the maître d' told them their usual table at the Maisonette in the St. Regis Hotel, which Minnie and Vincent owned, was unavailable, it was occupied! The Duchess insisted on a public apology. Minnie, in front of witnesses, calmly cut the Duchess dead. "My dear woman, why don't you act your age."
La Cote Basque. Why do you think he published that?
Thank you. Going to look up Agnelli. Will I find a big Italian nose that ruins it all?
I did find the big Italian face that ruins it all. Complete with big nose. How did she get to be anyone? By letting a man take a dump in her mouth is how!
All of these society women were freaks in bed. Most are nothing to look at. French champagne, the best, is truly a drug. That's how they did it.
[quote]I did find the big Italian face that ruins it all. Complete with big nose. How did she get to be anyone?
She was born a princess, the daughter of an Florentine prince and an American heiress, that's how.
[quote] Harriman wasn't one of Capote's "Swans," was she?
hell no. Babe Paley was one of Capote's swans, who he fell out with when he wrote a book about the swans that spilled all their secrets. It was supposed to be fiction, but it was all truth. In some instances he didn't even change the people's first names.
[quote] Did Bill Paley cheat on Babe with Pamela?
He cheated on Babe a lot. He supposedly cheated on her with Pamela. In the La Côte Basque chapter of Capote's book he went on to tell a story of Sidney Dillon (Bill Paley) who brought a woman (Pamela Harriman) who was married to a former NY governor (Averell Harriman)to his apt at the Pierre Hotel (Babe and Bill actually lived in the St Regis) when both of their spouses were away. They had sex on Sidney and his wife's bed. The woman was having her period but didn't tell Sidney. When she left Sidney discovered the sheets with blood stains. He had to take the sheets and wash them in the bathtub so his wife wouldn't find out.
[quote]A beauty could pull this off on looks alone but this English crabrose HAD to of been tolerant of various fetishes.
No doubt she really had to of been tolerant, r53. Of you read any books about her? I of not, but plan to when I of time.
[quote]. In the La Côte Basque chapter of Capote's book he went on to tell a story of Sidney Dillon (Bill Paley) who brought a woman (Pamela Harriman) who was married to a former NY governor (Averell Harriman)
MARIE Harriman, not Pamela. The woman in the Capote story was allegedly Averell Harriman's first wife, Marie.
Sally Bedell Smith is wrong about Lady Ina Coolbirth being Pamela Harriman. In no uncertain terms Lady Coolbirth was Slim Keith
[quote] Despite her title, Lady Coolbirth is an American, a “big breezy peppy broad” in her forties, who grew up on a ranch in the West and whose latest husband is a rich English knight. In looks, manners, and speech, she resembles another big breezy peppy broad, who in 1965 was also in her forties, who also grew up on a ranch in the West, and whose latest husband was also a rich English knight. She is a photograph, in short, of Truman’s old friend Slim Keith
Wallis Warfield Spencer Simpson was the courtesan of the century.
One wit described the Cushing sisters as the East Side Gabors
The Cushing girls, though Patrician, were no great beauties. Their charms lay elsewhere. And Minnie, considered the homeliest, married most successfully, first to Jimmy Roosevelt, where she became FDR's favorite daughter-in-law, then to Jock Whitney, perhaps THE most eligible millionaire in Society at the time.
This was Bill Paley's moment. He asked Babe to marry him and bought the place next door to Whitney's Greentree estate. For the first time in a hundred years, the wall came down between the two places, making one big property that still extends over 600 acres along Shelter Rock Road in Manhasset. The two sisters, Babe and Betsy, were united and Bill Paley, a Jew, became a member of the Whitney family. He was in. Jock Whitney, who made a fortune in Hollywood, fucked Tallulah Bankhead, and was known as a good man with an open mind had no prejudices. He stood up for people like Bill Paley. Paley couldn't have played it better. And even though she didn't know it, Babe had outlived her usefulness. Things would get harder for her now.
One thing. It was Betsy who married Roosevelt and Whitney, not Minnie.
Part of the Cushing girls' charm was their willingness to look the other way. In Babe's case, this was a full-time job. Besides using her to get close to Jock Whitney, and thereby close to all the WASP bluebloods who had previously snubbed him, Paley sidelined his wife with hundreds of little chores. This, of course, left him more time to indulge in his relentless campaign of fucking the wives of those same blueblood snobs. He was like the Amanda Clarke of the 50s, out for Revenge! 820 Fifth Avenue was the prize he wanted. It had always been out of his reach, denied to him. The province of Vanderbilts and DuPonts. And Whitneys. Now, with his marriage to "the girl from Cleveland," they were granted one of the floors. This was the period where Babe Paley and Truman Capote grew close. She would sit with him out at Manhasset by her little pond and pour her heart out to him. She seemed oblivious to the betrayals around her, always in a hurry, running to find Bill's jam or something. One day she took her scarf and tied it around the strap of her bag. The next week, all the women in New York were doing it.
R72 This is from Clarissa Dickson Wright's book. Her father was the Queen's surgeon.
"The Prince of Wales, later Edward the VIII, had a very unpleasant side; he was also born with one ball and a tiny penis so his obsession with Wallis was entirely sexual, and by using alum to shrink her vagina and cold cream to lubricate it she enabled him to ha 'normal' sex for the first time."
I wonder if that was the "fabled technique" she learned in a Chinese whore house.
His wit must have been more apparent in his other remarks, evidently.
Jock Whitney was so handsome when he was younger. Was he a switch hitter?
Someone asked bout Pamela's son. She just dumped him boarding schools and she really didn't care about him at all. She was selfish and self centered.
Jock Whitney wasn't what you'd call handsome. But he more than made up for it with his warmth and ethical morality. He was rich enough that he wasn't in the Social Register, calling it "undemocratic." After being in Hollywood for so many years, he abhorred the stuffy bastions of East Coast society while being a part of it.
Helen Lawson wanted to play Pamela Harriman in a TV movie but they gave the part to Ann-Margret.
The Empress Carlota
Supposedly, the Bill Paley character frantically scrubbed the bloody sheets in the bath tub with a scrub brush, then baked them in the oven to dry them. I call bullshit, even if it has been fictionalized. Like the Paley's wouldn't have a couple dozen sets of very expensive sheets in their linen closet? Or like Babe wouldn't notice that her sheets had been basically destroyed by the blood/brush/oven? And don't get me started on Bill's inability to manage a hospital corner when remaking the bed!
Truman Capote was unrestricted by any actual facts when telling and retelling his pearls of gossip about Bill Paley. After La Cote Basque came out, and Babe Paley was dying of cancer, Capote tried one more time to talk to her. She got Bill on the phone instead. Capote had the nerve to ask Paley if he read the piece. Paley said, "I tried to, but I fell asleep." "Oh," said Capote. "And then when I woke up, the help had thrown it out." Paley then went on to murmur something about his sick wife and hung up. Capote was finished.
Thanks R81. That's so funny!
The Paley story by Capote was not about Marie Harriman. Marie was all or part Jewish (read Peter Duchin's book, Ghost of a Chance) Part of the seduction scene describes the Governor's wife silently mocking Dillon's presumptive Jewishness and the clubs he would never be welcome at. It was definitely Pamela.
[quote]The Paley story by Capote was not about Marie Harriman. Marie was all or part Jewish (read Peter Duchin's book, Ghost of a Chance
"The storyteller recounted a thinly disguised William Paley, well known to be a womanizer, having a fling with a thinly disguised Marie Harriman (first wife of Averell Harriman) in his hotel apartment bedroom where after she leaves he discovers she’s bloodied the sheets with her menstrual cycle."
It doesn't matter who people "say" the characters in "Answered Prayers" are, since the whole thing reeks of implausibility, as R82 noted.
[quote]Now, with his marriage to "the girl from Cleveland," they were granted one of the floors.
The Cushings were a Boston family.
Dear 86, David Patrick Columbia works mainly from info fed to him. He is wrong about this one. And he's not a very good writer. And nobody uses the phrase "at table". Perhaps he should substitute the phrase "en d'asse" to describe where he does most of his entertaining.
Any good biographies of her?
Fascinating lady and more intelligent than all other women or men on the scene. She is intriquing.
[quote]The Cushings were a Boston family.
The Cushing family included four generations of doctors (Erastus, Henry Kirke, Henry Platt) and was responsible for founding Rainbow Baby and Children's Hospital, of University Hospitals in Cleveland, OH. The most famous of them, Dr. Harvey Cushing, was America's first brain surgeon and a recipient of a Pulitzer Prize.
Dr. Harvey Cushing, prominent in New York Society, was also famous for having three beautiful daughters who were the toast of New York. One married Vincent Astor, another married Jimmy Roosevelt and then John Hay Whitney, and the third married Bill Paley, founder of CBS. Her name was Babe Paley. The Cleveland and New York families visited each other often.
I thought that the lady in the story also waited until she had her period on purpose to fuck with him as well as fuck him. She thought he was being so persistent (i.e., Jewish) because she was so high wasp and she felt he needed some sort of comeuppance.
How could she be a courtesan when she was the one with the money?
[quote]I thought that the lady in the story also waited until she had her period on purpose to fuck with him as well as fuck him. She thought he was being so persistent (i.e., Jewish) because she was so high wasp and she felt he needed some sort of comeuppance.
I think this is more of Capote's embellishments. "She looked like the type who would wear a tweed bra."
Pamela never had money of her own until she married Averill Harriman. Hayward had a lifestyle but ultimately left nothing.
An interesting story told by Brooke Hayward n Haywir was that her father Leland Hayward was offered the land that became Trousdale in Beverly Hills for almost nothing. It was adjacent to where they were living at the time. He turned it down.
R97 That land was formerly part of Greystone. Maybe he thought Ned still haunted the grounds.
Here's an interesting excerpt from "Life of the Party." It describes Brooke Hayward's introduction to her furture stepmother:
"How nice to meet you," she (Pamela) said, simultaneously pinning on Brooke's lapel a large carved ebony blackamoor encrusted with diamonds and sapphires and clothed in a gold vest and turban with diamont-dusted feathers. "Now this is very valuable, don't ever give it away or sell it."
Brooke was so astonished her mouth fell open. What an overdone entrance. The pin was valuable, but it was also too exotic, too weird, too wrong. One did not hand over on first meeting something so opulent. It was inappropriate. And besides, a blackamoor. Brooke was not politically conscious then, but her own personal Negro lapel pin? Maybe in the thirties, maybe in Europe, but not in New York on the cusp of the sixties, not after the National Guard had intergrated Little Rock's Central High and the southern civil rights sit-ins were about to begin.
Brooke felt it was distasteful to walk up to someone for the first time and pin on such an extravagant gift, especially since it appeared to be a hand-me-down that Pamela no longer wanted. When Brooke told her mother the next morning what had happened, Maggie Sullavan rolled her eyes. "Oh my God, poor Leland. I've never felt sorry for Slim until now."
Neither daughter nor mother was aware that gift giving in advance was a regular Pamela practive to guarantee obligation. When she met a man she fancied in France, Pamela often went straight to Cartier the next day and bought him, to be sent around, a present; gold cuff lings or a silver cigarette box engraved in her handwriting with "Thank you for the most wonderful evening. Love, Pamela." The object of her attention would then feel obligated to respond with a larger gift."
WOW! R98 thank you for the link! I never knew the history behind that mansion before. The murder connected with that estate would make a very good book. BTW, I read on an Amazon book list on ghosts ,which is stated that mansion is haunted.
All these people kind of presided over the disintegration of Gatsby's Gold Coast on Long Island, didn't they. After the 50s, and the Woodward murder out there, they moved out of all those huge estates. Babe Paley's old place is a housing development now. Bill Paley sold out to a developer, can you imagine? Breaking up Greentree. But they're all gone now. You can still see Babe's little pond with the island off Charney Court in Manhasset.
I knew her. She was a ruthless bitch!
The Paley house was called Kiluna Farm. I don't know what became of Greentree, her sister Betsy Whitney's place which was next door. I know her penthouse at One Beekman was sold tp a family called Ruttenberg
This is such a great thread. Which is the better (more dishy) biography? The Sally Bedell Smith or the Ogden?
Greentree is operated as a foundation but still owned by the Whitney mail.In 1927 the Whitney's were worth 180 million which is about 9 Billion in todays dollars
Why did the one Cushing sister marry Jimmy Roosevelt? He really didn't have any money did he?
There's a quote from Harriman. Something like its not by fucking that you get a man to fall in love with and marry you. If you want a man to marry you do his laundry.
R13, What did Pamela Harriman look like in person? She did have the "best facelift in the world"....She really did look beautiful late in life.
Both bio's are good..it's been too long for me to discuss any of the differences between them.
Pamela referred to Jock Whitney as her best friend that she ever had in life. I think they had a tryst while young.
What happened to Pamela Harriman's jewelry? It wasn't auctioned off.
I highly doubt Bill Clinton diddled her; she was too old for him by then. The real question is did Pamela & Hillary get along? She helped Bill Clinton get elected!
Also in one of the bio's, PH said that Jackie O called her after the Hayward death & estate problems. Offered her moral support. Interesting!
Funny, Truman Capote said he lived through every insufferable screw she ever had. That's what you get for vacationing on a yacht!!
Joan Rivers once said Pamela Harriman was a wild woman who was nuts as well.
Courtesans were more stylish in my day.
Madame de Pompadour
Roosevelts wife became Betsey Whitney after marrying Jock Whitney. Her money problems completely disappeared. She died as one of the richest women in the US.
"Bill Paley sold out to a developer, can you imagine?"
No, Gloria Upson, I cannot.
"I was shocked myself R112. Mums and Dadums and I went down to our place in Fort Lauderdale. We have a place in Fort Lauderdale. And when we returned Dadums said 'Gloria, you simply will NOT believe what has happened out at Greentree!' And I couldn't! I mean I really couldn't."