All Threads by Date
BREAKING: Angelina Jolie has pre-emptive double mastectomy
MY MOTHER fought cancer for almost a decade and died at 56. She held out long enough to meet the first of her grandchildren and to hold them in her arms. But my other children will never have the chance to know her and experience how loving and gracious she was.
We often speak of “Mommy’s mommy,” and I find myself trying to explain the illness that took her away from us. They have asked if the same could happen to me. I have always told them not to worry, but the truth is I carry a “faulty” gene, BRCA1, which sharply increases my risk of developing breast cancer and ovarian cancer.
My doctors estimated that I had an 87 percent risk of breast cancer and a 50 percent risk of ovarian cancer, although the risk is different in the case of each woman.
Only a fraction of breast cancers result from an inherited gene mutation. Those with a defect in BRCA1 have a 65 percent risk of getting it, on average.
Once I knew that this was my reality, I decided to be proactive and to minimize the risk as much I could. I made a decision to have a preventive double mastectomy. I started with the breasts, as my risk of breast cancer is higher than my risk of ovarian cancer, and the surgery is more complex.
On April 27, I finished the three months of medical procedures that the mastectomies involved. During that time I have been able to keep this private and to carry on with my work.
But I am writing about it now because I hope that other women can benefit from my experience. Cancer is still a word that strikes fear into people’s hearts, producing a deep sense of powerlessness. But today it is possible to find out through a blood test whether you are highly susceptible to breast and ovarian cancer, and then take action.
My own process began on Feb. 2 with a procedure known as a “nipple delay,” which rules out disease in the breast ducts behind the nipple and draws extra blood flow to the area. This causes some pain and a lot of bruising, but it increases the chance of saving the nipple.
Two weeks later I had the major surgery, where the breast tissue is removed and temporary fillers are put in place. The operation can take eight hours. You wake up with drain tubes and expanders in your breasts. It does feel like a scene out of a science-fiction film. But days after surgery you can be back to a normal life.
Nine weeks later, the final surgery is completed with the reconstruction of the breasts with an implant. There have been many advances in this procedure in the last few years, and the results can be beautiful.
I wanted to write this to tell other women that the decision to have a mastectomy was not easy. But it is one I am very happy that I made. My chances of developing breast cancer have dropped from 87 percent to under 5 percent. I can tell my children that they don’t need to fear they will lose me to breast cancer.
It is reassuring that they see nothing that makes them uncomfortable. They can see my small scars and that’s it. Everything else is just Mommy, the same as she always was. And they know that I love them and will do anything to be with them as long as I can. On a personal note, I do not feel any less of a woman. I feel empowered that I made a strong choice that in no way diminishes my femininity.
I am fortunate to have a partner, Brad Pitt, who is so loving and supportive. So to anyone who has a wife or girlfriend going through this, know that you are a very important part of the transition. Brad was at the Pink Lotus Breast Center, where I was treated, for every minute of the surgeries. We managed to find moments to laugh together. We knew this was the right thing to do for our family and that it would bring us closer. And it has.
For any woman reading this, I hope it helps you to know you have options. I want to encourage every woman, especially if you have a family history of breast or ovarian cancer, to seek out the information and medical experts who can help you through this aspect of your life, and to make your own informed choices.
I acknowledge that there are many wonderful holistic doctors working on alternatives to surgery. My own regimen will be posted in due course on the Web site of the Pink Lotus Breast Center. I hope that this will be helpful to other women.
Breast cancer alone kills some 458,000 people each year, according to the World Health Organization, mainly in low- and middle-income countries. It has got to be a priority to ensure that more women can access gene testing and lifesaving preventive treatment, whatever their means and background, wherever they live. The cost of testing for BRCA1 and BRCA2, at more than $3,000 in the United States, remains an obstacle for many women.
I choose not to keep my story private because there are many women who do not know that they might be living under the shadow of cancer. It is my hope that they, too, will be will able to get gene tested, and that if they have a high risk they, too, will know that they have strong options.
Life comes with many challenges. The ones that should not scare us are the ones we can take on and take control of.
- Forgot the link...
- So now yet another that she is more masculine than Brad Pitt.
- Wow, Angelina is brave. She's an amazing woman full of more inner strength than anyone ever imagined.
- I have two tits.
- Dammit, I hate things that make me like her. I admire her for the decision and how she handled it.
- Well at least she has her Oscar.
- Say what you will. but she is an informed, bright and empathetic human. I believe the average movie star would have kept this to herself, as to not risk the drop in sexual attraction from men. But AJ has proven to care more about the welfare of complete strangers than she does about herself.
I spent just a tiny amount of time in her world years ago, and she is almost ethereal in her kindness and open heart.
Her relationship with her own family is another story all together, but that isn't the point of this thread.
- If this is true, it's a huge medical issue for her and we should only wish her the best.
- Is it normal for women to have a double mastectomy as a preventive measure, when no cancer has been detected?
- I'd be willing to bet that a tabloid had the information and was about to print it, so she decided to control the story by giving it to the Times.
- I'm donating my tits to Cher!
- [quote]she is almost ethereal in her kindness [quote]
No, that would be the fentanyl and heroin.
- R9, yes. People do this for a variety of cancers where genetic disposition has been proven.
- Holding on Line 1:
Double mastectomy cancer survivor Guiliana DePandi at E! would like to interview Angelina Jolie.
- CDAN had a blind item about an A-list actress being treated for cancer, and I wonder now if it was Jolie. It does seem severe to elect to have a double mastectomy with absolutely no trace of cancer. Maybe she was royally spooked by her mother's early fate. Her story will educate and help other people.
- Does this mean I'm bumped from this week's cover of People magazine?
- [quote]Is it normal for women to have a double mastectomy as a preventive measure, when no cancer has been detected?
It's not unheard-of for women who have the BRCA gene, especially if they, like Jolie, also have a family history of breast cancer.
- Christina Applegate did the same thing a few years ago. It must be a terrifying decision to make.
- What is CDAN?
- Dance 10, Tits 0 (to keep up with the Chorus Line theme)
- Notice she's not having her ovaries removed, even though she is at high risk for ovarian cancer. Removing her ovaries would put her into menopause. She's not THAT concerned for her health that she would risk ending her film career 20 years early.
- It is becoming extremely common in younger women who have hopes for long lives. I have never heard of anyone over 45 doing it.
For the record I have serious doubt that the NE was about to go with this story. AJ is pretty well thought of in fly over country for her humanitarian aid, and even though though the tabloids love to break a story, there IS such a thing as causing backlash. I think that the very women who are the bread and butter of the NE would be disgusted by the revelation of this matter without AJ's imprimatur.
- I've heard that with a cancer diagnosis, there is often a choice between a lumpectomy and a mastectomy. Going for the full mastectomy and even a double mastectomy may be the best decision.
I was unaware that people who did not have any detectable cancer underwent double-mastectomies.
I think it's weird.
- She's kind of young for this. Most women who do it seem to be a little older.
- R23 Not if you've had a mother and 2 aunts die from breast cancer before 55.
There was a daytime show a couple of years ago where they had 4 sisters who were all doing it and they were under 30.
- I think it's pretty clear in the article that according to her genetics and her family history, her chances of eventually getting breast cancer are insanely high.
I, too, want to hate AJ, but I just can't. She seems like a really cool woman.
- [quote]I was unaware that people who did not have any detectable cancer underwent double-mastectomies.
Not weird, R23, and it's not that uncommon. It's possible it may save her life.
I've known women with a family history of breast cancer who've opted for the genetic testing and double mastectomies. It's a hell of a lot better than leaving their children motherless.
- I interviewed for a job at a plastic surgery office on Fifth Avenue in the 1990s and a woman was having both breasts removed that day. The nurse told me that it was not such an uncommon procedure. At that time, it was not done in hospitals, though. Women would go to a plastic surgeon with his or her own operating room to have a double mastectomy.
- [quote] Notice she's not having her ovaries removed, even though she is at high risk for ovarian cancer. Removing her ovaries would put her into menopause. She's not THAT concerned for her health that she would risk ending her film career 20 years early.
At the moment, she's still recovering from her mastectomy (which had the higher likelihood of her contracting it).
At some stage, she might have her ovaries removed, but there are likely to be some preventative health issues that delay such surgery.
- [quote] some preventative health issues that delay such surgery.
What preventative health issues?
- Damn, I mean what [italic] preventive [/italic] health issues?
- R30, maybe she just wants to recover from her double mas and will do with her ovaries at a later date.
- [quote]Notice she's not having her ovaries removed, even though she is at high risk for ovarian cancer. Removing her ovaries would put her into menopause. She's not THAT concerned for her health that she would risk ending her film career 20 years early.
Actually, you useless sack of cocksucking shit, what she said is this: "I started with the breasts, as my risk of breast cancer is higher than my risk of ovarian cancer, and the surgery is more complex."
Which would lead any reasonable person (but not you, of course) to believe that she's at least considering the possibility of having her ovaries removed next.
- Nice pr move. I smell another Oscar in her courageous future.
- [quote]Notice she's not having her ovaries removed, even though she is at high risk for ovarian cancer. Removing her ovaries would put her into menopause. She's not THAT concerned for her health that she would risk ending her film career 20 years early.
R21. What kind of callous, unfeeling, insensitive douchebag are you? "She's not THAT concerned?"
Really?! She just had a double mastectomy. Have you given any thought to just how difficult this operation is physically, emotionally and psychologically? Maybe she needs time to consider another operation that takes another part of her womanhood away. Maybe it won't be necessary.
But it's easy for a douchebag like you to sit on the sidelines throwing sarcasm and bullshit over something for which you probably would never have the courage.
- Wow. She's so freaking extreme in everything she does. Good for her though.
I think her mother wqs a heavy smoker. I've always believed (no science to back it up--just anecdotal evidence) that smoking increases your risk of getting ALL kinds of cancer, especially if you are genetically predisposed. Or, it brings it on earlier. I wonder if AJ's mom would have had another 10 years if she didn't smoke.
- Kara DioGuardi (the American Idol judge) had it too.
- What won't this woman do for publicity?
- I'm not sure why R21 thinks it's advisable to have two serious invasive procedures done at the same time. He also seems to be unaware that losing breasts is far more traumatic than losing ovaries, estrogen, and progesterone because, at least, the latter two are easily replaced pharmaceutically. Stupid twat.
- It was a very brave thing for her to do, and even braver to share her experience with the world in the hope of making other woman's decisions easier. It shows something of the depth of her character.
- R38, I know you're trying to be funny and flippant (or at least, I don't think anyone could be that big a douche to see a double mastectomy as 'publicity') but did you understand the phrase 'eight hour surgery'?
- This isn't funny. OK, a little bit.
- Oh for heavens sake r41. r38 was just being snarky. Now she's untouchable as a figure of mirth? We HAVE TO LIKE HER NOW. Too bad she just missed the mass canonization.
- Your move, Aniston.
- I'm assuming those making jokes and crass comments lead lives completely untouched by breast cancer. Once you've lost a friend and then another and share the complete sense of powerlessness that they feel and witness the challenges they face including chemo, mastectomies, sometimes removal of bones, loss of all body hair, etc., you could never be so insensitive towards this disease.
This was very brave to do and to come forward in aid of other women and their families.
- A former FOX morning show co- anchor had it done. E.D. something... forgot her last name.
- No, the post from Aniston and Angelina's responses were funny. There's a difference.
- R41 - completely agree with you. Anyone who would question her motives has clearly not been through a surgery where they rip part or all of your organs out, you get hooked up to a tube that drains the resulting fluids and infection from your body while you get to piss/shit in a bedpan because you can't move due to the IVs and tubing. Completely humiliating experience.
- of AN organ, not organs
- I think AJ is a very brave person to do this.
I have breast cancer in my family - mom (died of it) and sister (survived) and have been asked multiple times by my doctors to have the cancer gene testing done on me. I won't have it done.
I *am* being proactive in getting a mamogram every year like clockwork and try to lead a healthy lifestyle (exercise, diet, don't smoke/drink/do drugs).
I have my concerns about the test - there is only one firm that does it so you can't get a second opinion and having the gene doesn't necessarily mean you will get cancer. Also, I worry about getting medical coverage in the future if that info is in my file.
50 year old female
- Why didn't she just do it and keep it to herself? Most women who do this don't go around telling everyone about it.
- I agree, R51. I think this was the only choice she could make. When it comes down to their tits or their family, most women would choose the future of their family.
I respect her for doing this, but she's no braver than other women I've known who've done the same thing without publicity or adulation.
- [quote] He also seems to be unaware that losing breasts is far more traumatic than losing ovaries, estrogen, and progesterone because, at least, the latter two are easily replaced pharmaceutically. Stupid twat.
I'm a menopausal woman.
Believe me, estrogen and progesterone are not easily replaced. They don't make you the same person you were when you were pre-menopausal.
Losing breasts is nowhere near as traumatic as losing sleep, losing the ability to control your internal temperature, losing hair in one place and gaining it in another, emotional lability, dry skin, decreasing to vanishing orgasms, weight gain and the near impossibility of adequately stoking your metabolism to lose the weight as you go further into menopause, osteopenia, osteoporosis, water retension every day instead of a few days a month, constant cervical polyps.... I'd gladly give up my boobs (which became all flabby after menopause) just to get rid of the hot flashes.
Yes, I take hormones. Have for years. They will stop giving me hormones when I am 65. My mother, who is in her 80s, still suffers from hot flashes, night sweats, hair loss, etc.
You can always get reconstructive surgery with breast implants. But breasts don't make you a woman anyway. There were plenty of flat chested women out there before the age of breast implants. Estrogen, progesterone and other hormones make you a woman and they are near impossible to replace with tablets or bio identical cream. If you don't agree, come back when you are 10 years into menopause and we'll talk. If you are a not 10 years into menopause, I'll swap you my breasts for your natural hormonal status.
- Apparently the BRCA gene runs in my mother's family. I have a 2nd cousin who does medical research and she did a massive amount of research on the family tree trying to find out where it came from. She has the BRCA marker. We first connected on Ancestry.com. All of my mother's female cousins died from breast cancer. Told my younger sister about this and made her get tested a couple of years ago. She has the marker as well and has been a lot more proactive in getting check ups.
Angelina making this public can only help other woman.
- I think she is putting a super-dramatic spin on a major boob job.
- I'm not a DR but is not possible to have regular checkups and then catch it early enough and have the procedure done at that stage? It seems a bit extreme to me, she didn't know for certain she was going to get it. But that is just my 2c.
- [quote]It does seem severe to elect to have a double mastectomy with absolutely no trace of cancer.
Not when a doc has told you you have an 87% chance of contracting it.
- R56. Do you understand different forms of cancer are far more aggressive than others?
- NEW YORK (AP) -- International superstar recording artist Madonna announced today, through simultaneously released op-ed articles in The Guardian, Le Monde and Der Spiegel, that she has undergone a radical double mastectomy, a hysterectomy, a thyroidectomy, a bone marrow transplant, and a double lung transplant -- all in a single, 26-hour procedure -- to ensure her health for decades to come.
"It's important to me, my children, and my fans to remain healthy," Madonna stated in the op-ed. Although she illustrated no known genetic predispositions towards any cancers or other diseases, Madonna stated her interest in showing she is a "strong -- no, [italic]fierce[/italic], woman."
In other news, Madonna announced she had adopted two more children from the war-torn Sudanese region of Africa -- "one more than Angelina [Jolie]," she noted in her op-ed.
- I don't think anyone is questioning her motives for having it done, but I do question her motives for writing about it in the New York Times.
She has always been extremely savvy in her dealings with the media and in using the media to burnish her reputation.
- R60, I'm glad I'm not as cynical as you. I think she truly is trying to make women aware that this is option is out there. That if you have the genetic marker and the "wrong" family history, this is one viable option to stop the probable cancer before it stops you. I mean, how many people on this thread had no idea this was even an option? I know I didn't. I'm sure there will be more than a few women out there who, upon reading her article, will contact their doctor and see if this is something they should consider.
And, no, I don't think she's a saint or perfect or anything like that. I think she's just trying to increase awareness and if she uses her celebrity status to do that, I say good for her.
- [quote] I think she truly is trying to make women aware that this is option is out there
Women know the option is out there.
What they don't know is the criteria for insurance companies to cover prophylactic bilateral mastectomies. If Jolie went into this in some detail, her article would be relevant. If not, she's just fame whoring. Everybody knows about breast cancer and women who have had 2 close relatives die of breast cancer are very aware of it, unless they were adopted. I have no doubt that women with 2 close relatives who died of breast cancer ask their doctors about their chances of getting it and what they can do about it.
- Those things were ticking time bombs, so it's good she had them lopped off.
- What would we do without Angie managing to preserve her privacy AND get a PR blitz out of it in the name of "caring" and "education."
Bitch, I don't care about your tits. Cynical? No - just wise to your lifelong bullshit and constant focus on your own twat.
I wish Pitt would leave the woman. What a fool.
- Wow, some here are just awful human beings. Just because you're going to die sad and lonely doesn't mean you have inflict your poison on everybody. She's not doing this for fame you idiots, she doing this to inform women. Oh that's right it's a about women. If she came out and said she had AIDS, the one thing untouchable at Datalounge, she would be worshiped.
And R82 what the fuck are you babbling about? This is a relatively new procedure. If more woman are aware, and demand the insurance companies deal with it, the better.
- Women know their options, but rarely have the money to get tested and have the surgery. It's nice that she's honest, but she really didn't reveal anything new. I bet she's going on the cover of Time with this. Too bad she's completely seethrough in everything she does. I don't buy the Saint Angelina crap for a second.
- Jesus, now we're going to be subjected to endless PR fluff pieces from the Aniston camp about Jen taking a dump, Jen having her period, Jen's relationship troubles, Jen's fondness for surprise anal,.....
- It's a good point that R67 makes--patients and providers pushing the insurance companies to cover the procedure can only help get it covered.
- [quote] I'm not a DR but is not possible to have regular checkups and then catch it early enough and have the procedure done at that stage? It seems a bit extreme to me, she didn't know for certain she was going to get it. But that is just my 2c.
This is why we cannot talk about this enough. There are still people who can't grasp the whole concept.
Jolis wants to PREVENT cancer. Once you have it, well, then YOU HAVE CANCER and you have to undergo treatment and you have an inceased risk of it recurring.
Any criticism of Jolie doing this or talking about it is beyond stupid. Anyone with these odds of getting cancer has few options - most of which equate to wishing and hoping they luck out or waiting to get cancer. Those with BRCA1 have an increased risk of getting a very virulent, aggressive form of breast cancer that could easily present itself and spread between even frequent screenings.
Jolie has been in a high profile career for long enough to know how valuable it can be for someone with her profile to speak up on issues of importance - especially freely talking about a personal experience with something that causes fear and inaction in people who may need to be prodded into action.
Bravo to Angelina. Posters like R64 are beyond bizarre and irrelevant to any intelligent or helpful discussion.
- I think she was pretty genius in ending the article with the prohibitively high price of genetic testing. $3000 is simply not an option for many families. Cue the reader who commented that NHS in the UK provides free testing to women as well as the prophylactic procedures.
- [quote] This is a relatively new procedure.
No it isn't. I saw my first prophylactic double mastectomy more than 20 years ago. And non-prophylactic double mastectomies have been around a lot longer. Just because you didn't know about them doesn't mean the rest of the world didn't. Christina Applegate had it done and didn't see the need to announce it to the NY Times as if she was selflessly saving the world.
- Insurance companies have had to cover reconstructive surgery following breast cancer since 1998 IIRC but I'm unsure about reconstructive surgery following preventive surgery.
I agree and hope that this starts a discussion about the company that controls the genetic test and prices it so exorbitantly as well as ensuring state medicaid programs cover reconstructive surgery - which I believe some don't.
- I cannot imagine the difficulty of such a decision; whether you are a Hollywood star or a regular person, this cannot be easy.
There is a shock factor that comes with a young beautiful Hollywood actress announcing such a drastic procedure, but I don't believe that was Jolie's intention. (
While I knew of the genetic testing for women with the history of breast cancer in their families, I have never heard of nipples being spared during the actual surgery. Is this new?
Wouldn't leaving the nipples (and the vascular system needed for their function) intact still pose a risk for breast cancer?
- Jennifer never even got a chance to taste her breastmilk...this is sad.
- Angelina Jolie has always been vocal about how much she loved her mother and how much it pained her when she died. There's no reason to believe she doesn't feel strongly about this whole thing, how she wants to be there for her kids, and not pain them with an early death...
And maybe she's not paying for every woman's surgery, but she helps immensely by being so brave. A celebrity deemed the most beautiful woman in the world -- in the most fucking superficial business in the world, decides to remove her breasts, something so many women have trouble with because it makes them feel de-feminized and of lower worth...
So tell me again how what Jolie does is not helpful? She shares her feelings of loss and bravery on an issue that is very emotional to many women.
Humanity is so disappointingly predictable sometimes. What I've seen of reactions from especially straight guys on social media today is disgusting. Making fun of her for doing this. For valuing being a mother for her kids, over her breasts. And dehumanizing her, saying she's not hot anymore now, like that's all that matters. And then they attack her for doing it for attention. Really? She got rid of her breasts just for attention? Does any sane person really believe that?
- [quote] Any criticism of Jolie doing this or talking about it is beyond stupid
In your opinion. Not necessarily in the opinion of the rest of us. THOUSANDS of women have undergone this elective procedure and didn't turn it into a PR event.
If you're not having children, you don't need your breasts. It's not the same as having a preventive prostate gland removal or removal of the testicles. Those would interfere with one's ability to have sex. But anyone can have sex without breasts. Men do it all the time.
And removal of the ovaries would be a far more profound change than removal of the breasts. Ask any woman who had to have her ovaries removed and underwent premature menopause if she's rather have lopped off the breasts and had a reconstruction instead of having to give up her ovaries.
- [quote]Just because you didn't know about them doesn't mean the rest of the world didn't. Christina Applegate had it done and didn't see the need to announce it to the NY Times as if she was selflessly saving the world.
No, but she appeared on Good Morning America three weeks after the surgery to discuss it. She was also on the cover of People Magazine for their 100 Beautiful People edition to tell "My Story." She got a second cover with her baby later about "Baby After Breast Cancer" declaring "She's My Miracle!".
So I guess it was good that Applegate selfishly tried to save the world through the premiere Hollywood PR press organ.
- [quote] I have never heard of nipples being spared during the actual surgery. Is this new?
Nope. It's been done for at least 30 years that I know of. Every woman I know who had a mastectomy, except for one, had her nipples maintained. The one who didn't had a very aggressive form of cancer. I worked in a PACU and most mastectomies had the nipple saved. Sometimes saving the nipple doesn't work, though. You have to wait and see.
This has been discussed on The Doctors show and Christina Applegate had it done years ago.
- "It does seem severe to elect to have a double mastectomy with absolutely no trace of cancer"
My mother had it done when she was 40 - back then, there was little or no genetic research; all she knew was that grandmother, 2 aunts and a cousin had all died from breast cancer, and her sister was suffering (beat it eventually)...
That was 40 years ago. Not a damn thing since.
Her suggestion that my dad get his balls done at the same time didn't go down well AT ALL...
- Those of you who have never heard any of this stuff before -- are you female? Do you see a women's health specialist? Are you not asked about your family history?
If your family history does not have breast cancer in two close relatives then no, maybe you wouldn't know about this. But if it does, you should have been asked about your family health history and breast cancer should have been discussed with your women's health care provider.
- BTW my mother didn't have cancer, so they didn't remove lymph nodes or any muscle around the chest...
And she got reconstructive surgery on the NHS - she is an 80yo with perky BOOBS...
(I die from the embarrassment...)
- [quote]If you're not having children, you don't need your breasts. It's not the same as having a preventive prostate gland removal or removal of the testicles. Those would interfere with one's ability to have sex. But anyone can have sex without breasts. Men do it all the time.
What's this? Women who don't have kids don't need or deserve their breasts?
You are clearly not a woman if you view sex as a matter of insertion, as you clearly do. Women's breasts are vital during sex and foreplay and many do not achieve orgasm without heavy nipple play. Women's enjoyment of sex is a recent concept in our history and it is one that the Catholic Church and other fundamentalist religions have sought to eradicate through their teachings (i.e. that women who enjoy sex are whores) and actions (i.e. the removal of the clitoris in N. African Islamic culture). I see you've bought their world view hook, line, and sinker.
[quote]And removal of the ovaries would be a far more profound change than removal of the breasts. Ask any woman who had to have her ovaries removed and underwent premature menopause if she's rather have lopped off the breasts and had a reconstruction instead of having to give up her ovaries.
Really? You've never heard of HRT? I know several women who have had full hysterectomies in their early forties. They were quite fine with their procedures. One was thrilled with never having to menstruate again.
- Boy you flyover idiots really can hate. Bravo Angie.
- "If you're not having children, you don't need your breasts"
Yeah, just chop those tits off - slice 'em off like a couple of hams...Who cares???
(He's probably all for circumcision too...)
- [quote]Boy you flyover idiots really can hate. Bravo Angie.
What makes you think these haters are flyovers?
- HRT can cause breast cancer. So if she gets her ovaries removed and starts HRT because she no longer has breasts, is she still at risk for developing cancer from the hormones?
- God I love her. What a wonderful woman and example she is to all. Go Angelina!! And Jennifer Aniston is just a mean-spirited, self-centered drunk. Glad Brad saw the light and traded UP!
- I imagine she has already had a hysterectomy and had her ovaries removed.
- R88 - don't be a bitch.
Heaven knows I am no fan of AJ, but she has at least begun a conversation which might just save more than a few women from death or disfigurement...
- R87 - Isn't the elevated risk for cancer present only among those over 60?
- I love AJ threads. Her haters never fail to amuse me.
With the exception of Streisand, Angelina Jolie manages her stardom better then anybody else.
Public service? check
New York Times? check
Mention of superstar partner? check
Mention of children? check
Scooping the tabloids? check
I adore Jolie. Love her, hate her, or be indifferent but she's a STAAAHHH.
- What happens when the docs discover, "Oops- that gene thing was a mistake. False alarm!"?
- I found your post generally perceptive, Della, but I can't figure out why you'd be impressed with so much smoke and mirrors.
- Why do these celebs have to publicly discuss things that should be private? I'm sure some will say she's "bringing awareness", but her long, lengthy essay comes off as attention seeking.
- God, there are some prime idiots in here. Smoke and mirrors, r94? To hide what? That she didn't *really* get a double mastectomy? What a stupid fucking freak you must be.
Bottom line, whether or not AJ wrote that column for attention, publicity, whatever, it will still 1) raise awareness of information some women may not have known about 2) draw attention to the ridiculous cost of BRCA gene testing 3) help other women facing this choice to feel that they can have a mastectomy and still be attractive and feminine. (Yeah, maybe it's pathetic that some people regard celebrities as role models, but the fact is, some do.)
So, however you look at it, and whatever your personal feelings about Jolie might be, the column is a good thing.
- I don't get it. Obviously it is her body to do with what she wants. I just don't know about removing healthy tissue. It seems extreme. So, if someone might get testicular cancer they should have them removed? I have never heard of that. They don't even take your tonsils unless they have to. I wish her well though.
- [quote]Is it normal for women to have a double mastectomy as a preventive measure, when no cancer has been detected?
A friend of mine in the medical field said the test itself is very faulty. I don't know if it's improved in the last seven years.
The other thing is I have heard A. Jolie has boob implants. Some of you may have heard that women can never, or rarely, get them removed only get a reduction in implant size but the MDs on the talk shows never explain why. I just thought it was just that the skin stretched out or something.
It's because there is a very good chance the breast tissue will be destroyed by the implant in 5 to 10 years. Doctors just assume the women will always want them.
That is exactly what happened to a girl I know who wanted them removed. She was only 20 when she got them put in. When the doc saw the mammogram, he just acted like the absence of her tissue it was status quo.
She'd only had them for 5 years & no one had explained the reality of the situation to her before surgery.
In other words when you see women with implants there's a good chance her breasts are already gone.
I don't doubt there are hereditary factors but in THIS case I wonder if Angelina needed them replaced (which happens a lot because they leak) and made it into a cancer story for publicity.
- [quote]So, if someone might get testicular cancer they should have them removed?
If genetics and family history added up to an 87% likelihood that you would get ball cancer AND that it would be a particularly aggressive and virulent strain, then, yeah, it would be something to consider.
No one is saying that mastectomy is a sane or appropriate choice for every woman who stands any chance of getting breast cancer.
- Not that he'd want to, but Brad Pitt now can never leave her without taking a fatal PR battering.
I admire AJ for this though, very brave woman.
Wow, oh boy. The haters are not flyovers, what a ridiculous statement.
I think Angelina Jolie is kind of creepy, but how can anyone with a brain see this as anything other than an honest and generous statement?
It is not flyovers who are the problem, it is gay men who have no interest or knowledge of women, their bodies or any health concerns beyond the superficial.
I am a gay man who lost a very close friend and an aunt to ovarian cancer, and it is a miracle that they can now detect some warning for it, because it was almost always too late for women when they find out.
I am not interested in educating cynics, and it is entirely possible that the AJ news was going to be exposed. That does not take away from the graciousness and informative nature of her public statement. She wants to help others, and to share what she is going through. It is not so unusual a precaution and needn't be argued. It is her choice based on her medical situation.
To call them tits, is so fuckin straight guy crude...if you are not going to reproduce, you don't need your nuts either. You would cut them off for publicity? Crazy.
She is to be nothing but admired for sharing very personal and detailed information regarding her health and her choices. She is not advocating for this procedure.
Ignorance is everywhere, and is not centralized in flyover states. Some gay men hate women, some people are just cynical and many are ambivalent about mothers and motherhood. But even that cannot explain why anyone would think this is for positive publicity - such cynicism and hatred.
I don't hate a stranger and am impressed with the candor and straight on language of her disclosure. Very few public figures would go into so much detail. She can have no other motive than to educate and explain. Public Relations = Ridiculous. She is a very enigmatic person. She is pulling back the curtain on her beauty, her family and her health. I admire that.
- Of course stardom IS smoke and mirrors,r94.
And some are better at manipulating those two things more then anybody else; Jolie foremost among them.
So yeah, I'm impressed and I write this as someone who has never, with exception of "Mr and Mrs Smith" watched a Jolie film.
- Testicular cancer is one of the most curable forms of cancer.
Her chances of getting breast cancer are 87%. That's extremely high risk.
- Regardless of what people think about Angelina personally, she truly is a remarkable woman. I would say that her and Charlize Theron are the only actresses in their peer group who are as beautiful in the inside as they are on the outside. The rest spend their time blogging about $25,000 scarves, cussing out cops, and strutting around in fishnets with their latest enablers.
- Poor Jen....it's ALWAYS about Angelina.
- Jen should cut her legs off in her own pre-emptive move
- Once you have an aggressive breast cancer, it's not as simple as just having the mastectomies then. If the cancer cells have moved into your blood stream, then it's out of the gate, so to speak. The cancer could spread to other parts of your body, as was the case with Elizabeth Edwards.
I had stage 0 breast cancer. I had a lumpectomy and preventative radiation therapy in the effected breast. I have no relatives with breast cancer. Clearly it wouldn't make sense for me to get preventative mastectomies.
It depends on your risk.
- "What happens when the docs discover, "Oops- that gene thing was a mistake. False alarm!"?"
Did you read my post at R80?
Thanks to mum, my sisters have their boobs checked and smears done regularly (and I get my balls squeezed and the bum checked regularly...
and sometimes it's even done by medical personnel)
- Kudos to Angelina Jolie. She's a remarkable person. I wish I had her sense of life and self. Those kids are lucky and I'm not talking about the money.
My sister lost her battle with her second bout of breast cancer 10 years ago in April and I lost my mom way too young. I was crying when I read Angelina's article. Mothers, sisters, seemingly inconsolable losses, breast cancer, painfully hard decisions to protect your children, it all just got to me.
- I LOVE ANGIE!!!!!! She is truly brave! You haters are just angry coz you will never ever rise up to her level of greatness.
She donates 1/3 of her salary to charity! among many other good deeds that many in this thread have already mentioned.
- Donating 1/3 of her salary helps with taxes, lest we forget.
Works both ways.
- My concern is that there may not be a 100% consensus among medical professionals that double mastectomies are the only option and that sometimes this might be a reaction to genetic testing. It seems to be a more popular procedure in the US, less so in other countries.
- Cancer patient: Angelina Jolie isn't the brave one
Revealing? Sure. Helpful? Maybe.
But "classy" and "brave"? I don't think so.
I woke up this morning and groaned at the headline glaring from my iPad. Not at Angelina Jolie's decision to have a prophylactic double mastectomy — that was smart and right — but at the reaction to her choice to go public with such a personal decision on the op-ed page of The New York Times, the highbrow equivalent of the cover of People or the 8 a.m. hour of Today.
I immediately thought of an interview I had with Edie Falco just a couple months ago. We talked about, to paraphrase Jolie, her medical choice — to keep her breast cancer diagnosis a decade ago private.
"When I was going through my treatment, I didn't tell anybody," she told me. "Because I don't want that. I don't want anybody's pity. I've been through it. I'm strong. I have access to the best doctors because I'm on a TV show. I mean, ridiculous good fortune is all around me."
And who are the brave ones in the country's breast cancer conversation? They're so quiet as to be all but ignored. They're the women with metastatic disease, especially the young women I get chemo alongside at Dana-Farber Cancer Institute in Boston, the ones who really may not see their children graduate from kindergarten, let alone high school.
As Jolie rightly pointed out in her piece, breast cancer still kills an unacceptable number of women every year. Those whose lives are in the balance, who don't have the luxury of admiring their perky, reconstructed nipples, those are the women who need a worldwide platform.
As Falco told me, "I see what some people are going through, and (my experience) really is nothing. So I mention it offhand because it really is offhand. That's the God's honest truth. I've been very, very lucky."
So has Jolie. Like Falco, she can tap into a network of the finest surgeons. (Yes, it makes a huge difference.) And she's also lucky in a perverse sense: Considering that her mom battled ovarian cancer, Jolie knew that there was a good chance she carried the BRCA mutation. Other BRCA-positive women, those with no family history and therefore no reason to be tested, have no idea until it's too late.
Jolie is the new, gorgeous poster woman for a procedure that should be, and hopefully soon will be, de rigueur. Whether she likes it or not (and I'm thinking the former), she will forever be known as much for her increasingly conventional health choice as for her unconventional family. She is now the world's most beautiful actress/mom/Brad Pitt partner and ... preventative bilateral mastectomy champion?
Falco, on the other hand, doesn't even think about what she went through. "I look back, and 10 years have gone by," she said. "It's just a little blip." Forget the mere threat of disease: Falco, like most cancer-afflicted women I know, refuses to be defined by her actual disease.
"Major surgery" is having a double mastectomy to try and save your life, like I did. Radical is going under the knife in hopes that a modified radical mastectomy reveals that your cancer hasn't spread to scores of lymph nodes. It's not broadcasting a surgery that's more headache than hardship. To get lauded as "absolutely heroic" for doing something that is (relatively) minimally risky and, frankly, the responsible thing — a proverbial no-brainer — boggles my mind.
- I wonder what the false negative and false positive rates rare for the genetic testing. I imagine that women only undergo testing if there are multiple relatives with histories of aggressive cancers.
- So she had her boobs cut off and fake ones installed. Big deal. It's hardly like she has lost out on an important body part like a penis or a vag. She'll do anything for attention.
- [quote]My concern is that there may not be a 100% consensus among medical professionals that double mastectomies are the only option and that sometimes this might be a reaction to genetic testing. It seems to be a more popular procedure in the US, less so in other countries.
My god, the dumbassery in here is astounding. I doubt that there is a 100% consensus among medical professionals about ANY procedur; so fucking what? Further, no one said double mastectomies are the ONLY option; where did you even get that idea? A woman can always opt to get screened frequently and thoroughly and hope she will either never gets breast cancer or catches it very early if she does. For the majority of women, that's probably the smartest and sanest option, but when you've got the BRCA gene combined with a family history and you know your chancs of NOT getting a particularly deadly variety of breast cancer are pretty slim, then the double mastectomy becomes a good option--still not the only option, but a smart one.
And of course, the double mastectomy is sometimes a reaction to genetic testing, dumb fuck. Without a factor such as the BRCA gene that increases your likelihood of an aggressive form of breast cancer, it would be a little crazy to get a prophylactic mastectomy; with such a factor, the mastectomy may be a reasonable and rational reaction.
- She's a decent, intelligent woman who truly puts her money where her mouth is. It's a shame that she got raked over the coals over that stupid affair, and that people failed to see what a prize the first Mrs. Brad Pitt really was.
Thankfully when she marries Theroux, Pitt and Jolie will finally be let off the hook. Then Jen can have something else to bitch and moan about for years on end when that marriage also goes to shit.
- The author of the USA Today editorial sounds quite bitter and angry. Perhaps justifiably so, but why its displacement? Angelina Jolie's decision to have a preventive bilateral mastectomy and to discuss it has absolutely nothing to do with Edie Falco and how she chose to handle her diagnosis and treatment. Telling no one sounds a bit dysfunctional, actually. Yet, she's considered classy and brave?
Regardless, both did it to save their lives and Angelina Jolie actually may have saved a life or two in the process. It's sad that the
author had to pit two women against each other to achieve whatever objective she had while writing fer editorial. That reason's unclear unless it's just to vent her anger about the unfairness of life.
- The author of the USA Today editorial feels she is being an exhibitionist.
- [quote]Jen should cut her legs off in her own pre-emptive move
Let here also cut her tongue off while she's at it.
- R117 Angie broke up a marriage.
- R121 That marriage was already done.
- R122 where you there?
- R21 and alike can go fuck themselves.
- It's becoming a new trend!
- R121, Oh boohoo! Your fucking still crying 10 years later. Fuck off!
Bravo to Angle! What a brave decision to take charge of your life and your health. Get educated about your body so you can make informed decisions.
- [quote] The author of the USA Today editorial feels she is being an exhibitionist.
Well I feel the author of the USA Today editorial is being a bitch.
- Ozzy's wife, Sharon, had this pre-emptive procedure as well.
Oh please, as if you are all perfect and never made a feckin mistake. She is human and has led a very colorful life to say the least...She does a lot of good work.
What has Jennifer done? Same shite movie after another...she may not broadcast her charity work but and may be a very nice person but I can't stand her as an actress.
- She's a home wrecker.
- EIGHTY SEVEN percent, people. I wouldn't play those odds.
- R126, yes! I totally agree!!! You control what you can! you gain a peace of mind, priceless!
- She also has a social conscience, R60. She wanted to get the issue out and, anytime she says something, it makes news.
- From the Globe & Mail
This is a OP-ED that pushes at boundaries – what is private, what should perhaps be kept private, what we need to know, what we don’t, what is insightful or just exhibitionism.
Jolie is very honest in her writing. Let me be as well then. There’s self-harm in choosing to publish this OP-ED. It’s just like alcoholism: the recklessness of it; the abandonment of responsibility to her partner, to their relationship, to her child, and also, most painfully, to herself.
And because of that, I feel both protective of her and annoyed by her – which is not what an interviewer is supposed to feel. If someone is being thrown to the wolves – even if someone is throwing herself to the wolves – it is not my job to protect them. I am a wolf, sometimes (admittedly) in sheep’s clothing, but blood is blood, and the media, well, unfortunately that can often feel like the sport.
- I applaud her decision and her openess. But I still can't stand her.
I wish I had said that.
- [quote] There’s self-harm in choosing to publish this OP-ED. It’s just like alcoholism: the recklessness of it; the abandonment of responsibility to her partner, to their relationship, to her child, and also, most painfully, to herself.
You do know that it's not hard to Google weird out of place phrases like "It's just like alcoholism..." and find that it's a book review and critique about "Drunk Mom," a book unrelated to Jolie.
Lame. I hope DLers aren't even lamer than you to fall for this.
- It's great that she's talking about this openly. As a woman I know about breast cancer and other forms of cancer but honestly I wasn't someone who heard anything being the basic information ...until recently, when my mother got diagnosed with uterine cancer. I honestly had no idea that cancer cells can spread from the tumor to nearby lymph nodes and that way get into a person's system and cause havoc.
This year alone I've met a number of people with aggressive cancers who found out by chance, in between their usual screenings. They felt nothing, but went in for something minor and relayed a bit of info that the doctor luckily picked up on.
I think we're more accustomed to the idea that a woman will pick up on a lump during her monthly exams but sometimes cancer is so silent that it's gaining on you without you having a clue.
I can completely understand why she looked at that 87% possibility of cancer and decided to do something now versus wait for cancer. Once you get cancer, that bitch can move rather quickly and aggressively. If that happens you may not have any shot at all for survival.
- Ya got bad tits, Angie, and we gotta chop 'em off.
- There's nothing like a pair of tig ole bitties!
- I cut my tits off for you.
- Anyone think she's going to keep a biopsied boob blob in a vial and wear it around her neck, like she did with Billy Bob's blood bauble? Or force it on Mr. Pitt?
In other words, Biopsied Boob Blob Bling By Billy Bob's Blood Bauble, or Bestowed on Brad, Angela?
- Let's have a moment of silence, for Angelina Jolie's boobs.
- Oh shut up, r116, you fucking idiot. But, perhaps I should have been clearer for imbeciles like you: my concern is that Jolie's highly-applauded openness is going to encourage other women to take a similar decision, even though it might not be the best one for them.
Pre-emptive double mastectomies seem to be much more popular in the US. Why is that? Is it a cultural thing?
- I think R55 nails it. It was a good chance to get some new tits, take care of a real medical problem, get some publicity, enhance the Saint Angie image, all in one unassailable swoop. She's really a fucking PR master.
- If she starts campaigning for insurance companies to cover this procedure for other women, or expands her foundation to help other women get testing or surgery... then I'll stop assuming her motive is to get people talking about her personal drama again.
Talking about yourself doesn't actually help other people, even if you're famous.
- I don't know for certain if the rates of perventive mastectomies are, in fact, different from country to country. If true and I had to venture a guess, I'd say that there's probably a larger population of Ashekenazi Jews in the United States than, say, the UK where free BRCA testing and surgery are available. Women of Ashkenazi Jewish descent have a higher risk of inheriting the BRCA1 & 2 gene mutations. In fact, when I began hearing about possible breast cancer genes over 20 years ago, it was with reference to a high rate of breast and ovarian cancers in some Jewish families.
- At least Angie hasn't touched her singular iconic feature. If she got rid of her lips to prevent cancer, there would be an uproar.
- In Canada, provincial health insurance pays the cost of genetic testing for those who meet the criteria, and covers preventive mastectomy and breast-reconstruction surgery.
- I don't believe this, where are the interviews from Angie herself?
- [quote]Women know the option is out there.
Not all women. Being a woman doesn't make one automatically knowledgeable about all conditions that impact women, and the same goes for men about male-related conditions.
Many females (and males) were surprised about the information provided by medical professionals when Christina Applegate had her double mastectomy; however, many people remain ignorant and uninformed. Jolie's situation will further educate others, but not all will be reached or care. For better or worse, being in the public eye provides those individuals with a platform and media that people who live quieter lives don't have. Regardless of whatever agenda people believe Jolie has, in this case, going public as she did will be beneficial to many, and that is a positive.
- Note to self: have something removed.
- Brad will be a widower with an army of rainbow kids and Jen can never get a break.
- [quote]But, perhaps I should have been clearer for imbeciles like you: my concern is that Jolie's highly-applauded openness is going to encourage other women to take a similar decision, even though it might not be the best one for them.
Perhaps you should have been clearer?? You said nothing remotely resembling the above statement in your post at r112. Please point out where you think you did.
In any case, you blithering fucking idiot, no woman is going to blithely and unnecessarily get her tits chopped off just because Angeline Jolie did it! Jolie was quite clear about the factors that made this decision a reasonable one for her; in no way does she suggest that it's the correct decision for most or many women, and any woman who's wondering if a prophylactic mastectomy might be a good idea is obviously going to have to consult with doctors before she gets one--NOBODY is going to end up having one unless, like Jolie, they stand a very substantial chance of getting an aggressive form of breast cancer otherwise.
- When are her new tits going to appear on the red carpet? When will pictures of them sunbathing be leaked to the media? When will they take a major role in a feature film?
Seriously, the woman is a master of PR! Nobody in the history of the world has ever gotten so much press from a pair of fake boobs.
- [quote]I don't believe this, where are the interviews from Angie herself?
Honey, go back to the original post on this thread - that's page 1 - and you'll find the op-ed she wrote about it for the New York Times.
You are disgusting. Probably her old tits were not real tits. So what in the fuck do you mean? Breast cancer has nothing to do with pretty tits, you tit. She is having her breasts removed and having reconstructive surgery. She is wealthy. She will probably have good work done. You are a fool.
Such bitterness towards a woman who has many young children and just wants to stay alive and healthy for them and no doubt herself is kind of loopy. I thought DL had more than the expected "she can afford new tits" kind of people and observations.
You are one sick freak to resent a famous beauty or any woman her right to protect her health AND to look as good as she can.
- What did they do with the tits? Will they lie in state for fans to file past and pay their respects?
- Why is this the top story on every newscast?
- "What did they do with the tits? Will they lie in state for fans to file past and pay their respects? "
No but they will stay in the minds of fags like you who WISH they had tits to attract men who would puke at the thought of fucking you. All you who think she did this for publicity or wonder if she could have toughed it out or if her ovaries are next, FUCK YOU. When you get testicle cancer and you're crying that your balls will be cut off or maybe when some thug cuts you, don't come here and cry. NO ONE WILL CARE YOU DRIED OUT OLD QUEEN!!!!!
- What do they do with the boobs after they cut them off?
- please r159...heal your anger dear one. Maybe try Buddhism. I loved her tits. They were beautiful in "Gia." I also enjoyed AnnE's in "Love and other Drugs" and Lanie Kazan's in Playboy.
Remember how well we get along with others reflects how well we get along with our self.
and try and develop a sense of humor if you are going to play in the big leagues here at DL. So touchy, so angry, so strident, so crass, and most of all so EASY to provoke.
- I am a carrier of the BCRA gene and my family has a history of breast cancer but there is no way I would ever have pre-emptive surgery. Silliest thing I've ever heard.
- Shelly- your choice and I hope you monitor yourself like a hawk.
Those who carry that gene are in the minority (about 5% of breast cancers), it is a very aggressive pathology, and your chances of gettng breast cancer before age 65 are pretty good- ovarian as well.
Angelina is smart, she is brave, and of course she can afford the best care. I think I would do it. Even if you catch breast cancer early Shelly, you will go through a siege of chemo and or radiation post lumpectomy of mastectomy-and potential reconstruction that is much worse than what she endured. That is if you catch on time. You may not and the result is of course your demise after a horrowing fight.
Point is, she is in the great minority of women. Of course all women should not have their breasts removed.
My guess is bilateral oophrectomy is to follow for Jolie. I'm pretty sure it can be done laproscopically so it is minimally invasive. Ovarian cancer is universally fatal because it is almost never diagnosed until too late. There is no effective early screening for ovarian cancer. And it is a 2-5 year siege of surguries and chemotherapy with all the side effects.
- It was on the news she is having her ovaries out. Won't female hormones be out of the question?
- [quote]Not all women. Being a woman doesn't make one automatically knowledgeable about all conditions that impact women, and the same goes for men about male-related conditions.
When a doctor takes a patient's family history that contains breast cancers, she would immediately discuss genetic testing options with her patient. It took a while for doctors to catch on that breast cancer runs in families. Now that they know, they are very careful to make sure their patients have good information.
- [quote]It was on the news she is having her ovaries out. Won't female hormones be out of the question?
Why? She doesn't have breasts now. No breasts means no breast cancer.
I know a woman who saw a dimple in the top of one of her breast because there was a lump there. She immediately got in to see her doctor who scheduled her in for a biopsy the same day. She had a virulent form of breast cancer. Because she is the single mother of a young child, she opted for a radical double mastectomy.
As soon as she healed from that surgery, she had a complete hysterectomy. She's been on HRT ever since.
- I don't find anything heroic about her choice or the editorial. Maybe I should. My response was, "so what. You're exercising a healthcare option that many of us cannot afford to consider."
So she publicized the high cost of the BRCA1 and 2 test. That would be helpful except there's a Supreme Court case pending on this very subject.
Is the point that some ordinary woman is going to say, "if Angelina could have an elective double mastectomy, so can I." Jolie has access to the best surgeons in the world. She has no money problems. She has a mate. Not the same at all.
The only consequence I can see is that women who are not high risk are going to clamor for the BRCA test because Angelina had it.`
- [quote]I don't find anything heroic about her choice or the editorial. Maybe I should. My response was, "so what. You're exercising a healthcare option that many of us cannot afford to consider."
That's exactly the way I feel. Am I supposed to be impressed? Because I'm not. She took pre-emptive measures that the average woman can't afford.
- My mother had a lumpectomy along with several courses of radiation in THE 80's and never had a recurrence. She is now in HER 80's. I feel I am lucky.
I don't know if there were some indication of greater risk of cancer in my family that I would encourage any member to do pre-emptive surgery. A lot of my reasoning has to do with the fact that I believe disease is a symptom of something else wrong within the system of the person as a whole. Cutting out the offending symptom does not get rid of the root cause. That is a Western approach that has not gotten anyone closer to real healing.
How do they know that after doing all that cutting a problem won't just show up somewhere else? That is why learning about healing is important not just cutting out the bad stuff that makes us sick.
- Literalists would argue that one must allow nature to take its course and that a mastectomy is just as unnatrual as gay marriage.
- Does anyone think maybe the American Cancer Society paid her to be a spokesperson for this and that maybe she didn't really have it done? I think the same thing with Magic Johnson, that he was paid to say he had HIV. THey did say on the news that she had already started reconstructive surgery, meaning how do we know if she actually had the double mastectomy?
- I don't trust her, remember this is a woman who shot up coke & heroin with that Billy Bob skeeve and drank his blood. "Actors are just bullshitters who get paid!" Bette to Shelly Long in "Outrageous Fortune."
- Why is no one talking about ME? Justin, you either need to marry me or dump me so that my PR can issue a press release about my joy/heartache. Maybe I can also come up with some kind of illness and become a spokesperson for it. God, anything to get people to stop talking about HER!!
- Quit trying to drag JA into this thread, R173. You're not funny.
- [quote] I believe disease is a symptom of something else wrong within the system of the person as a whole. Cutting out the offending symptom does not get rid of the root cause. That is a Western approach that has not gotten anyone closer to real healing.
Keep that in mind if you ever develop appendicitis. It's just a symptom of something wrong within the system as a whole. Cutting out your appendix will not get rid of the root cause. The western appendectomy approach will not get you closer to real healing.
- This thread keeps getting dumber and dumber.
R162, for someone who claims to have the BRCA gene mutation you don't seem very well read up on it. Whether you opt for pre-emptive surgery is your option but I've never heard anyone with BRCA mutation talk about it like you have.
With BRCA you stand the very high risk of getting breast cancer and ovarian cancer. The breast cancer you are likely to get is a very virulent and aggressive cancer which may very well not be caught because you can't be getting mammograms every month. By the time it's noticed it's spread and your survival rate is greatly reduced.
Same issue with ovarian cancer, it's often not caught in time. So when you face odds that are enormously greater than the average woman why would you just wait to get cancer.
The whole idea of pre-emptive surgery is to avoid getting cancer. With fe-emptive surgery Jolie reduced her risk of getting an aggressive form of breast cancer from 87% all the way down to 5% which is below the average risk. That huge difference in the odds is the farthest thing from the "silliest thing."
I suspect some posters are here to bitch about this because it is Angelina Jolie. So perhaps it is a waste of time to even respond to most of the naysayers. This ridiculous idea that Jole is making this entire operation up started over at an Angelina Jolie hate site and DL is one of the internet sites they love to spread their craziness to.
When we women started fighting to get mammograms reduced in price and included as a part of health insurance coverage, you didn't hear people say it was a waste and not helpful because most women couldn't afford regular mammograms and well, just live a healthy live style and you won't get cancer.
Making proper and effective BRCA testing accessible and affordable to the population that needs the testing needs to be talked up as often as possible. Alleviating the fear of many potential BRCA gene mutation carriers carry by openly and honestly discussing it and the options available or worth fighting for is always valuable.
Though I think Edie Falco had the right to maintain her privacy about her cancer, she did eventually talk about it otherwise we wouldn't know all about it. I also suspect that Falco may have hesitated in revealing her cancer because she may have worried about the possibility of damage to her career and maybe even her own personal life if it became known. And while I think it was her right I find it laughable that some writer thinks it was somehow "classy" NOT to discuss it. Now THAT is one of the silliest things I've heard. Cancer patients gain strength and hope from sharing their burden and hearing of the struggles of other sharing their fight against cancer. Patients often feel they are alone and it helps for them to know they aren't.
Again, kudos to Angelina Jolie for having the guts and brains to take her health and future into her own hands. And a second shout out for using her experiences so that others can learn from it. I'm sure this won't be the end of her contributions to this cause. The details of her surgeries and care is detailed indeed and a bit icky to me. I had a hard time reading it. It's chronicled by her doctor at the link.
- [quote] Being a woman doesn't make one automatically knowledgeable about all conditions that impact women, and the same goes for men about male-related conditions
Women who seek medical care from accredited medical personnel are aware of it. The first thing an accredited medical provider does is ask for a medical history. This is usually done in the office waiting room the first time you see a provider. The next step is to do a physical examination. During and after the exam, you talk to a patient about that patient's own history and family history. Is there a history of cancer, heart disease, high blood pressure, any other significant illnesses? You go through the body systems: Skin, alimentary canal, gastro-intestinal, vascular, neurological, connective tissue, bones, joints, movement, sensation, etc. It plainly asks on any patient history if your parents are alive or dead, what diseases they suffer from and what they died of.
A history of breast cancer is a red flag and it is required that you discuss this with a female patient. Who had it in your family? Is that person/persons still alive? If not, at what age did they pass away and did they pass away of cancer?
You then talk about the importance of self examination, mammograms and genetic testing if warranted. You give pamphlets because people often forget what was said in the office (white coat anxiety). You tell the person
to make sure they have yearly examinations by a health professional if they have a history of cancer.
But if you get your health care through the ER or from the Internet then no, you won't know much about anything.
And if your mother and aunt died of breast cancer before the age of 65 you should be doing web searches on sites like Web MD about the possibility that you might develop cancer as well. But if you are an incurious person who fails to see a connection between the demise of your aunt and mother and your own health care, then there's no hope for you. We can only hope you do not reproduce.
- Christina Applegate simply put out a press release saying she was undergoing a preventive bilateral mastectomy. Then she did it. She didn't make a big deal about it. She didn't anoint herself a health maven who is going to save lives. She did what most women in her position do. She got tested and opted for the mastectomies. Then she went on with her life.
Jolie could never do that. She must broadcast her life, narrate her story and cloak her attention-seeking in the costume of caring about others. I'm telling you all about me because I care so much about you.
- [quote]Jolie could never do that. She must broadcast her life, narrate her story and cloak her attention-seeking in the costume of caring about others. I'm telling you all about me because I care so much about you.
She is all wise and wonderful. We love you, Angelina. You're the Goddess come to earth to bring light to us poor peasants.
- Who da hell brads a gwan ta beats his ho if dat ho aint gots fun bags?
- I don't believe it. I don't know what the agenda is here, but it's not true. Maybe it's to sell her image as the woman everyone can relate to or something like that, so she can spread whatever it is that is their agenda.
- R181, you're a worthless piece of shit. I'm a man and even I think your post is dripping with misogyny...as if a woman would lie about having a double mastectomy for attention!
- [quote]Women who seek medical care from accredited medical personnel are aware of it.
That's the whole point. Many women don't have access to medical personnel or even if they do, they are too afraid to even seek this medical advice. You think every person owns up to their medical history? Part of the fear about BRCA by those with it or those who may have it is that their health insurance and/or employers will learn about it. Some people don't even want to know it themselves.
And some people are very naïve if they think all health care providers are so diligent in their history taking. The reality can be far from what is expected.
Seriously what the fuck is going on? What Jolie did is a GOOD thing. She is ratcheting up the discussion about accessibility, about facing the fear, about making testing and treatment affordable, about how she made this hard decision, etc. This is exactly what is needed. Exactly.
- Under Obamacare, women are guaranteed the costly tests that Jolie paid for out of pocket. Her shedding a light on this issue will cause even more eyes to roll as Republicans attempt to repeal Obamacare this week.
- [quote] Christina Applegate simply put out a press release saying she was undergoing a preventive bilateral mastectomy. Then she did it. She didn't make a big deal about it.
Yea, not quite. I saw her talking about it on TV shows and there were magazine articles about it. There were tons of articles and interviews with her about it in 2008. In 2012 she was still giving interviews about it, for example, she gave an interview about how "I Miss My Exquisite Breasts."
There was even a 2012 article about her emotional breakdown following surgery. It's her life and her experiences and she gets to talk about it all she wants. I am sure she helped people experiencing the same thing.
Why the need to lie about this?
- Her family never had breast cancer, they had OVARIAN cancer & she says so in the article she or her minions (I'm leaning towards her minions) wrote.
Cutting off her breasts is a super attention-whoring thing imho, and yes that famewhore would do ANYTHING to be back in the headlines. Including this.
Unless one has BC in their family this should not be done! I know it said "87%" because of the BRCA gene but that gene is also pancreatic cancer!
- Breasts, ovaries and uterus are expendable. Last I heard, pancreas is not.
I can't stand Jolie, but I believe she made the right decision.
- So appendicitis is a DISEASE now eh r175.
I said DISEASE you illiterate asshole. Didn't say anything about trauma medicine ignorant fucktard.
Or are you too stupid to know the difference?
- R186, Jolie's family included a history of a number of early deaths from ovarian cancer. Her mother, her maternal grandmother and a maternal uncle with a BRCA related cancer.
It doesn't have to be breast cancer history to increase your odds of getting BRCA related breast cancer.
However, according to Jolie's doctor, it seems her mother also had a bout with breast cancer but she died from ovarian cancer.
What's your point? You don't seem to understand the BRCA gene mutation and its relation to one of the worst kinds of breast cancer. Perhaps you should read a bit more - not gossip boards.
- R184. Proof please? Can they get preventative surgery?
- I can have a mastectomy under Obamacare? I really need one.
- [quote] appendicitis is a DISEASE now eh [R175].
Yes. Appendicitis is a disease.
[quote] Didn't say anything about trauma medicine
Appendicitis is not trauma medicine. It's an infected appendix that is removed by a surgeon. Trauma medicine is gunshots, car accidents, stabbings, fires, falls. Having an infected appendix has nothing to do with trauma medicine.
- Um, they remove wisdom teeth to avoid later problems. They even remove tonsils to avoid later infections.
Hell, they cut off foreskins on the off chance some guy can't wash his dick properly.
- I'm going with the "she already had dummy boobs inserted" theory and either they leaked or they needed to be replaced. In which case as likely as not she already had a de facto mastectomy.
Since breast cancer awareness is a high profile business (there was even a cable network jokingly called the breast cancer network, Lifetime?) women will seek counseling with their own DRs not a movie star.
I think this is another publicity stunt. Maybe a lucrative one paid for by Myriad.
For a perspective, consider that Cynthia Nixon and Edie Falco HAD cancer and kept it low profile.
Now that's class.
- They snip women's tubes to avoid unwanted pregnancies. They snip men for the same reason.
My sister had a little spot on her tummy and her doctor did a biopsy last week. It came back negative, but there were a few cells that might have become cancerous later. Her doctor highly recommended removing it, and it's gone now.
- R194, your theory would be more plausible if her mother hadn't battled cancer for 10 years before she finally died from it.
- Jeez, now we have to put this fame whore on a pedestal because she decided to get implants?
- R194, your coven is calling you back to Female First. They have new talking points for you. Get on your broom and be gone.
- What about the ovary removal? That really may mess up her looks- she is only mid 30s....
- [quote]My mother had a lumpectomy along with several courses of radiation in THE 80's and never had a recurrence. She is now in HER 80's.
[quote] I believe disease is a symptom of something else wrong within the system of the person as a whole. Cutting out the offending symptom does not get rid of the root cause.
Who knew the topic of breast cancer would bring so much stupid crawling out of the woodwork?
- R196 It's not a question of relations having cancer and dying. That happens to a lot of us. It's that she likely already had her tissue destroyed which far too many women do and there was no need to tell us about it except maybe to promote Myriad's product.
After all Nixon and Falco didn't.
- R201. Go bleed on the land for fucks sake.
- [quote]For a perspective, consider that Cynthia Nixon and Edie Falco HAD cancer and kept it low profile. Now that's class.
This "reasoning" reminds me of people who respond to a celebrity's coming out with "I don't care what someone does in private, I just don't know why the world has to know about it."
- Do you think she owns stock in Myriad?
- Are the same ones bitching about celebs being in the closet now cursing Angelina for disclosing her health?
- It takes an amazing degree of narcissism to believe that talking about yourself is a heroic and altruistic act.
How about paying for other women's testing or surgery, huh? You've got the bucks!
- [quote]Are the same ones bitching about celebs being in the closet now cursing Angelina for disclosing her health?
Wets thee, we da pubwic know nuffing about bweast cancer so cewebwities wike Fawco and Nixon -who actuawy had da disease- were wong. They shoulda have used da buhorn to tew us aw about it.
You got weawy good wogic. I bet you wike the new dwone powicy too.
- Now, now R206, DL expects every gay person to talk about themselves to benefit the greater good.
- R207. When you finish sucking on a tit we will be glad to hear your thoughts on health.
- Dude there's a difference about talking about yourself and making an event out of yourself. As for closeted gays- there's a difference between not talking about your private life and lying your shithole off about your private life.
- Why would anyone need to hear my or anyone's else's thoughts on serious health matters but a health professional?
- Look, no one else with breast cancer went to the NYT, or had their publicists plaster it everywhere like the Drudge Report & every gossip mag in existence. That is your famewhoring Angie for you.
FWIW, my own family has the BRCA fucked up gene in it and it has killed several members of my family.
The fact that her family had BRCA does not mean she'll get breast cancer. It can mean a whole lot of other issues. Cutting her breasts off - she didn't have any left! Those were implants!
As someone stated if you have them in for 4 or 5 years (& she's had them in longer) then your breast tissue deteriorates.
- r163 and r164 are spot on. Everyone should go back and read their posts.
- I'm sure this is an extremely unpopular opinion round here, but I like Jolie. Though I'd imagine people would at least be on her team rather than Aniston.
Unlike her other half she can actually act. Pitt is a cunt and I can't stand him, but I always loved the idea of them together forming the A+++ power couple of all time, even if Mr and Mrs Smiths sucked more than a meth addled hooker.
It's kinda hilarious in its ridiculousness, the often quoted as perfect man meets his female counterpart after years of going out with fugs who were below him.
Anyway, this is all very sad... especially now she's removing her ovaries. It doesn't seem like she's necessarily getting that much sympathy. Michael K never put a "sadness" tag on dlisted like he usually does, but he seems to like her in an ironic way calling her Saint Angelina.
A lot of people feel she's trash now after the Billy Bob days, I thought she was more interesting then compared to the sanitised Hollywood version. I don't necessarily like her much I just like the glamour and she hasn't done anything to bother me. I also feel her humanitarian work is sincere compared to others.
- My post above should read "r163 an r176 are spot on." Apologies.
- [quote]Though I'd imagine people would at least be on her team rather than Aniston.
LOL TEAM???? I think this thread just hit bottom.
- Oh there was a thing were they were called "team jolie"/"team aniston" in the early days. Those two factions of fans/haters are very much in existence believe it or not. Just like Britney/Christina lives on.
- Yes, R55 nails it. True. Those falling for this is proof that there's a sucker born every minute. I bow to you Almighty Angelina PR maestro.
Last week conned by Charles Ramsey, this week Angelina Jolie. A con is a con.
- Do you think JA is secretly delighted?
- r184 not true. Genetic testing is not covered by my health insurance.
- R211 For many of us that have been through a cancer diagnosis or major illness hearing about the experience of others is a huge support system. People are so afraid to talk about their health issues it makes things seem taboo. This took a lot of guts that I wish more people had.
- Yes there was a team jolie/aniston. Team Jolie were poor ghetto blacks who liked her because she adopted a black child. They didn't care about her when she had Billy Bob and then Maddox. They called them Brangaloonies.
- R4's immediate response still shocks me.
- R222, a fucking idiot talking out of your racist ass! What a disgrace you are for a human being!!!
- I remember the Teams, and what I saw of Team Jolie was mostly women who wished they could go around taking top-quality men away from other women.
And a few gay men who wished they could take top-quality men away from women.
- I've thought about it, and read the stories, and balanced the issues, and looked at her past and PR and image and work, and she's still nothing but a creepy, manipulative, soulless egomaniac, as far as I can tell.
- She finally realized Brad would like her better without breasts...and with a penis.
- Give it a rest R221. You're a liar. If you had really gone through cancer yourself Jolie's story would have sent up a big red flag. And she didn't even have cancer. I'd be pissed if I was a cancer survivor. I'm pissed FOR real survivors and those who fought and didn't make it. She's using her children and mother as an excuse to have a top notch boob job. Her reasoning doesn't make sense because nobody would remove healthy tissue unless many closely related women have been stricken. Those are the people who do have it done. Not this bimbo. She's hoping this will help her comeback so when the skank eventually does a nude scene people will rush to the theaters to see her radical mastectomy and reconstruction. We'll see if people wise up to her shenanigans. If not, I'll just get the warm fuzzies when I realize how much better i have it than most people. The top % see this for what it is. If Angelina Jolie had gone to college her major would have been Political Science. She could teach courses on a graduate level. This is her "Lara" character at play. She's no dummy and boy is she cunning.
- You may be onto something, R227. He got his baby lust satisfied with that herd of children, and now it's on with the new.
- R223, yes but this one takes the cake. W & W
"Jen should cut her legs off in her own pre-emptive move"
- r222 is kinda right. I don't recall Jolie having ANY black fans back in her punk/cutting/beautiful/cool days unless they were into alt. punk music.
She adopted a black child and all of a sudden you had old people bullying everyone else on line about her & "defending" her everywhere. Many/most of them were/are black. Even to the point of AA people thinking her in blackface was ok for a movie role, imagine if someone else did that, they would be super pissed.
- Aint no ho a mine agonna cuts of dem titties.
- Oh shut up, R232.
- R228 - you can fuck right off. If I had a way to prevent what I went through with surgeries, radiation, chemo, therapy, etc you better fucking believe I would have done it. If there was any way to know I could have prevented a year long ordeal with a surgery you bet your last goddamned penny (which you probably have many) I would have done it. You are a small minded fool.
- She got on the cover of TIME, so this worked out quite well for her.
- Oh that is good r230!
- Jesus Christ, I hate men.
There -- I said it.
- Why r237? There are many more men here defending her decision than tearing her down.
- Hi, Angelina. This is Francine at the Beverly Hills Clinic for Maximizing Image with Medicine. We're sorry but I apparently mixed up the test results a little when we gave you your data a while back. It was for Jolie something or other. You can see how easy the mistake was. I'm real busy and we've been down a receptionist. Anyhow, forget what I said and just 'member to get that first mammogram when you turn 50. Sorry for any inconvenience, but these things do happen. Bye now.
- "My guess is bilateral oophrectomy is to follow for Jolie. I'm pretty sure it can be done laproscopically so it is minimally invasive"
And my guess is that she'll go for the more invasive option, the kind that includes a tummy tuck.
- 241 posts. On the front page of every paper in the country.
- R221, ignore R228. She's just being a bitch and is clearly just one of those Angelina Jolie haters. They can take anything the woman does and turn it into evil incarnate.
They are somehow convinced that Angelina Jolie is a "has been" and can't get a job and that she and Brad are going broke. Oh, and that she and Brad broke up years ago and are faking it.
The "boob job/implant replacement" is their latest nuttery. If you don't count that they believe she faked the birth of her children by wearing prosthetics. I just don't know what to say about the likes of these people.
R221/234, I watched my big sister go through 2 bouts of breast cancer and admired her strength and resilience but most of all her spirit. When she finally lost her battle out of the blue once a cold took hold I was in the air trying to get to her before she died. No one with any decency would inject into this serious topic ridiculous gossip. You have my deep respect for your battle and my deep hope for your future. You sound like you have my sister's spirit.
- [quote] For many of us that have been through a cancer diagnosis or major illness hearing about the experience of others is a huge support system.
Except she's perfectly healthy.
And nobody stopped you from having your boobs cut off before having cancer. Anyone can have their breasts removed to prevent cancer. Most women who have breast cancer do not have the gene. So, if every woman cut off her breasts there would be no breast cancer.
There's no excuse for her famewhoring. She's not ill and she's not a savior. She doesn't deserve any kind of admiration for "talking about cancer." There are millions of pages about cancer online. It's been discussed on television, radio, in newspaper for decades. There is the American Cancer Society, a well-known organization which talks about nothing but cancer. It's not as if people never heard of cancer before, so she's not breaking any ground.
I'll reserve my admiration for the people who have dedicated their lives to cancer research. They are the ones who really make a difference, not movie stars who want to talk about themselves.
- Some of you need to disconnect your computer and find a way to reconnect with humanity.
- R243 you are a stupid worthless cunt. You have no idea what you are talking about.
- r245 = Brangeloonie eating cheetohs
- Agree with R244
- Agree with r243
- 240, ww, omg!
- Again, she's a famewhore. A FAMEWHORE. Tits or no tits. AND the first thing she ought to have done was have the ovaries out, anyway. Just on principle.
- Can I hold the scalpel?
- R250, the ovary removal is traditionally done AFTER the mastectomy for these patients. This is because the HRT that sometimes accompanies ovary removal can interfere with or affect the breast tissue. Removal of the breasts has no affect on the ovaries however, so this is done first.
- Sit down 242. You don't know what I've been through. I'm calling it as I see it. Since she didn't have cancer we'll save our sympathy for those who have been stricken. Disgusting! By buying this story of hers proves you aren't familiar with the condition of most women's breasts after having a few kids. She did what most women of means resort to and it is surgery. Jolie is just excusing herself for not being a super woman and bouncing back after childbirth. Her extreme weight loss must have made them extra saggy. She wanted them fixed but can't own up to her REAL reason for doing it. Come on, fool, it reads like narcissism 101. Jolie knows who her fans are and they aren't educated, wise people with bank. Fact.
- Oy vey
- Yes its a publicity stunt. Everyone was in on it. Not only Brad, and the surgeon but her mother and grandmother who purposely died young of fake cancer just so Angelina could get some sympathy in a few years.
Oh and those BRACA scientists too they recruited her to advertise their patented gene.
- Damn I should have thought of this!
- This was supposed to inspire a dialogue about breast cancer but it's only inspired discussion of Jolie's bravery and heroism. It's generated a lot of misinformation--I heard a radio personality refer to the BRCA1,2 mutation as "the death gene"--and a lot of hysterical calls to doctors from women who aren't at risk but want to take the genetic test anyway.
I'm 62, an Ashkenazi Jew, and the daughter of a woman who had breast cancer at 34 yet lived to age 85 without a recurrence. I probably have the gene although I've never been tested for it because I always suspected that the information would be used by insurers and employers to discriminate against me. I respect the desire to hang around for one's children but my life would have been infinitely less comfortable if I had gone her route. As for what lies ahead, who can say? Cancer or heart disease gets all of us eventually.
- r253 is mentally ill.
- R257, if you have the gene you would probably have a aggressive cancer in your 30's or early 40's and no one has the right to your medical info, ever.
As celebrities go, I like her. She is provoking dialogue and the really hateful people need to attend to their own pain and failures.
- Don't forget dementia [r257] should we be so lucky as to have the Alzheimer's gene.
I've had my genetic testing done by 23and me, and it pretty much follows my mother's and family's patterns of living to old age and dying of heart disease or dementia. I'm not worried, and it gives me some encouragement to exercise and plan for the future.
- R55, zoom, right over your head. Comprehension is not your forté I see.
- I had it done for the same reasons after considering it for over a year. The doctor who did the surgery literally butchered me. After they stuck drainage tubes in both sides of my body and wrapped my waist with an Ace bandage, I was done.
I will never, ever forget what it felt like the first time I unraveled the Ace bandage and looked at my chest. It was all I could do not to scream. A few days later, the doctor examined me and said he had something for me. It was a photograph of my breasts lying side by side on a tray next to the operating table. The skin was already gray.
Having no insurance nor millions of dollars to receive the state-of-the-art quality procedure that Angelina Jolie had, I paid $5000 out of pocket. Women like me, fearful of dying, will line up around the block to obtain this surgery "because Angelina Jolie did it, and she's so brave." Trust me, she wouldn't have even considered it if she couldn't spare her nipples, have the reconstruction surgery, or be able to luxuriate in what I'm sure was a very comfortable narcotic state.
Women like me will wind up lying in bed adjusting their drainage tubes and emptying out the pink fluid that fills up the little containers at the ends. They will look at their flat chests and scream, or faint, or vomit. It will feel like they have a rope around their bodies for years, and they won't be able to raise their arms all the way up for a very long time. And finally, if they're lucky, their scars won't turn into hypertrophic or keloid scars that swell and never fade, flatten, or disappear.
I had my surgery five years ago. I can't afford reconstruction or scar removal. If I had it to do over, I would rather risk getting cancer.
Let Angelina Jolie take some credit for saving some women's lives, but let her also take the credit for sending perhaps thousands of others to endure a prophylactic surgery that may not be necessary in the first place. We are not all married to Brad Pitt, either. How many marriages will withstand this movement to mutilate women who aren't even able to afford the genetic tests that Jolie had?
- [quote] It was a photograph of my breasts lying side by side on a tray next to the operating table. The skin was already gray.
r262, if I might ask, WHY THE FUCK did your doctor show this to you?
- R263, it was a surprise. He thought it would interest me. I had almost reached the point where I was starting to deal with the butchery. Seeing that picture made me suicidal. I kept it, though. Someday, I'm going to post it for all the stupid people who think Angelina Jolie is such an inspiration.
- R262/R264, what a horrible experience for you. I'm really sorry that you encountered what seems to have been a terrible surgeon. And a sick one to boot.
I hope you won't think me rude for saying I hope are getting the kind of counseling that helps you work through completely justified anger and channel it in more productive directions. Perhaps you already have done this.
I think you are misdirecting that anger and bitterness at Angelina Jolie who is only doing what all women should be doing - sharing her experience. She is not advocating anyone do this or even suggesting that is an appropriate choice for most women. She is merely showing that with the proper medical care that others can get through this.
There's a lot of strength in anger and you have an experience that's important to share with others. I hope that you are able to share with others your valuable lessons without the acrimony - I fear that will just turn people off and they won't hear you out.
- And of course St. Angie is on the cover of People Magazine's new issue, talking about how "brave" she is.
Please! The average woman does not have the money to take the same pre-emptive measures.
- 23&me is funded by google, why don't they and the brangelina bunch just fund everyone to get genetically tested? They could both afford it. The rest of us, not so much.
- She's getting ripped a new one at the other thread
- [quote]Thank you [R56] for mentioning what is going down right now in the legal news. Watch for a connection with investors? Private or public company? This indeed is the issue but peppering with Angelina PR Maestro proof tidbits is fascinating. Her nose job(s) and other surgeries made a masculine looking woman into some otherwordly beauty who is really that skank that every neighborhood is familiar. She pushes everything not because she's so great and impervious but really a skanky goth chick with a kickin' death wish. Unfortunately, some know the type. She doesn't value her life. Really. She has a death wish and is a mother to six children. Her father wasn't kidding when he begged for support to get her psychiatric help in that now infamous news cast. People tell you who they are but if you're too wrapped up into your own self to acknowledge it, it does you a great disservice. Both Pitt and her fans are victims. People tell you who they are so you need to really listen.
- I see the Angelina haters are home from their shifts. Can't you retire to some frau site where you can spout your venom?
I swear these women are freaks.
- R270 I don't think people hate her; just sick of all the hoopla over her.
- No frau should ever visit a faggot site, especially one that uses the word "haters".
- Anyone using the word "haters" is a total flyover frau in sweatpants.
- [quote]When a doctor takes a patient's family history that contains breast cancers, she would immediately discuss genetic testing options with her patient. It took a while
The family history business has been so long known it's ancient history. OF COURSE MDs discuss that stuff with their patients.
- R272, thank you. It's not really a frau, though. It's some charity case sitting in the projects somewhere with an internet connection on a cheesy machine or phone. Read the other thread above^
- You guys know who I mean about Angelina Jolie. There's at least one in every town..or at least a variant. Wants to change her reputation from high school slut or something. Problem is, she's not living life. It's all about what others think. Hasn't figure it out yet. That peace you get after traumas and some age.
If I met anyone in person who thought Jolie was all that, I'd be looking at a naive, uneducated and most likely poor mental case. No way do the top percent consider her in their league. That's how you can tell where people stand in life. Who do they find impressive, the impressionable? I can just imagine what the leaders of the UN secretly think about this bimbo. Like a high school dropout is going to school people with advanced degrees and enviable backgrounds!
- You know R276 i'm right. Those well-educated people must snicker behind this filthy goth chick's back. Oh please tell us wise high school dropout why we bothered achieving our graduate degrees!? There's an elite class of people but Pitt and Voight don't belong there. Why? Because it starts at a young age. These two don't have the credentials. These people sneer at other people who attended lesser schools. Imagine what they think of this skank and all of her tatts and brother kissing. Billy Bob Thorton, people. People don't forget. You know.
- What is all this crazy talk about "educated people" etc?
- Well, on the other hand, I doubt that her having these surgeries wouldn't have been tabloided sooner or later. Better for her to speak out and preempt the gossip.
- R262 is telling it like it is. My daughter-in-law had to have a double mastectomy due to cancer. It took close to a year before she could have the reconstruction surgery. Drainage problems, complications and she is still having problems. I don't see how anyone can go thru the removal and get reconstruction surgery in three damn months.
- This is what happens when uneducated people happen upon lots of money. This foolery that would never slide with university professors. They know better. Jolie has never been exposed to this world so she thinks everyone will buy her bullshit. She didn't grow up in a home of MDs or anything of that sort. Nobody of true high station ever challenged her or her brother. They're just uneducated hillbillies with Dad's non-scientific job money. See what happens?
- They're all fucking jerkstains. Angelina is a slacker who is wise to who her fans are. She's the tatted up slut who will sleep with anyone if she perceives it as an advancement. She's the same stupid attention whore goth chick who thinks you should believe her bullshit and excuse her laziness.
- Wow, the Jennifer Aniston trolls are psycho
- I mean the Jennifer Aniston fans, in case I wasn't clear. They are psycho. Nuts. Nuts. CRA+ZEE!
- Why are some people mentioning Jennifer Aniston? Even though I saw an earlier post mentioning it...it can't be true after all of these years. Can it?
- You think you're sane, R284? You may be in for a big surprise.
- It isn't, R285. People who haven't grown mentally since they were 15 assume that everyone is either an Aniston fan or a Jolie fan. They don't get that many (maybe most) of us don't like either of them.
- trolldar r283 & r284 lol. This welfare cheetohs eating flyover senior frau in the projects posted TWICE to pretend she was 2 different people.
- Jennifer Aniston? Have you not read my posts? Surely Jennifer Aniston is not making the bar either.
- Wrong, trolldar yourself, R288. I wasn't trying to pretend to be two different people. I said I was clarifying what I said. I referred to the post above, wanting to make clear that I meant "fan" by "troll." You people are nuts.
- Is it true? Is this a black thing because she adopted Zahara/Mercy whatever...?
- [quote]She didn't grow up in a home of MDs or anything of that sort...They're just uneducated hillbillies with Dad's non-scientific job money.
AJ's uncle is an Ivy league PhD holder who is a well known academic geologist. Jon Voight himself is a Catholic U grad. AJ's paternal cousins are all well-educated, one is married to a well-known orthopedic surgeon in Greenwich who iirc is a Yale grad. Wikipedia states her brother graduated from USC (may/may not be confirmed).
She herself isn't a college grad, but her family is overall much better educated than most other A listers in Hwood (inc Brad's).
- Better educated than the nuts on this thread
- R285 yes it is true take a gander at googling The Female First Forum. They have a whole gaggle of Jen Aniston psycho fans who come up with wierd conspiracy theories. The whole cosmetic mastectomy B.S. is right up their alley.
- She is a college grad? Really? Show proof. She isn't educated and you know it!
- [quote] one is married to a well-known orthopedic surgeon
God are you an idiot.
- Dumb bitch at r295 - RE-READ my post. I clearly stated that Jolie herself is NOT a college grad. Learn to READ please.
- R294, but...but, didn't she really have cosmetic procedures? I'm not talking about her nose jobs and cheek implants. Why are you defending a masculine female who has surgeries to try to appear like a lady?
- [quote]God are you an idiot.
????? and you my dear are a genius of the highest order I'm sure.
- THIS used to be why guys would always go for a younger woman but with surgery today, not the case.
- Attack away. Your idol is as uneducated as you and if she never adopted a black child and stuck with asians (her true love) then you would consider her a "scallywag" or whatever in your vernacular.
- R301, etc. has problems.
- Are some people really hating on Ange for this? This would be a pretty f-ing scary thing for a women to have to face. Bravo Ange!
- [quote]This would be a pretty f-ing scary thing for a women to have to face. Bravo Ange!
Yeah except people do this across the world every day and have the extra burden worrying if they got it all out. Then the radiation and chemo that comes after. You're a big pussy lip.
- R301 and all your other Rs, get lost you racist pig.
- Any and all of you hating on, dissecting, and ignorantly criticizing Angelina for her personal decisions need to ask your selves why.
There are so many wonderful, witty, and hilarious people on datalounge, and then there are some who's hatred for women make me wince.
My only conclusion as to the latter is that some woman caused you great pain.
I'd be very happy to hear your views on that.
- I knew a woman who had the genetic markers. She lost her mother and sister to breast cancer. The illness was terrible and traumatic for everyone involved. As a precaution, she had a double mastectomy. She got breast cancer, anyway.
I applaud Anglelina Jolie for doing this and especially for speaking out. She will help women.
- 306 = another cheetohs stained elderly AA flyover in a section 8 apt who has clearly never worked a day in her 65 years. And has many baby daddys. Still collecting welfare.
- Angelina never graduated HS. It says on NNDB she went to Moreno HS which is a continuation school. She never finished that either, she was a HS drop out at 15.
So are most of her fans by the responses on this thread. Oh and every time they're around they're delusional, crazy, they say words like "haters", they're incapable of civil discourse, and they are homophobic despite AJ being admittedly bisexual and loving the clits of other women.
- I don't think the stupid, hate-filled comments on this thread are from regular DLers.
- I agree, R310. These don't seem like DL's special brand of stupid, hate-filled comments.
- R265 and R280, thank you for your very kind and thoughtful responses. I have never talked about this experience in any forum or to anybody but my doctor and my ex-husband. Jolie's story about her procedures literally made me see red. Does she think all women have access to the same doctors, hospitals, and aftercare that she has?
R265, to be blunt, yes, I'm angry, and while that may be a turn-off to some people, it may also open other people's eyes to the truth about genetic testing and preemptive bilateral mastectomy. I've never forgiven myself for what I chose to do and I don't want other women to endure the emotional/physical trauma such a procedure causes.
R280, please give your daughter-in-law my deepest sympathies. I know exactly how she feels. I had problems with my drainage tubes as well. They weren't removed for over a month and it made my life hell. The keloid scars that the doctor swore would flatten out within a year look just the same five years later--and they hurt. Constantly.
Somebody mentioned (I'm paraphrasing here) that Jolie has a surgical fetish. And we've all heard about her tattoos. Basically, I think she is a media junkie with serious mental problems. It's sad about her mother dying, but everybody dies eventually. Life, as they say, is a terminal illness.
- Its great she had it done, good for her but so tacky putting out a story in the paper. Tacky city.
- God, trolldar r304 et al.. Cray-zee.
- Well, I've talked to some people who have been through this with and without cancer and they see it as a glorified boob job. People are starting to catch on. The forums at WebMD have got her number.
- I am BRCA (the breast cancer gene) positive and like Angelina Jolie, I chose to undergo a preventative double mastectomy a little over a year ago. I was also interviewed by the National Post, and was deeply disappointed when I read the Wednesday article that I was part of.
I feel the article projects the idea that women are all just weak, irrational, hand-wringers, who are likely to think that getting a double mastectomy is the same as copying Ms. Jolie’s hairstyle. Or that in a state of complete hysteria, we will react in a “counterproductive” way. And as feeble-minded women, it would be impossible for us to look rationally and objectively at the evidence that is presented to us.
This type of commentary feeds the worst preconceptions about women. I think the biggest issue I have with this piece is how disempowering it is. The article mutilates education into fear and a question of health into vanity
Like Ms. Jolie, I choose health and a long happy life, and I have never once second-guessed my decision to put my life first. Perhaps it is possible for a woman to offer the world intellect, strength, kindness, and character rather than merely breasts, bedroom eyes, and sexuality. And maybe if we lived in a world that actually valued woman rather than objectifying them, making these kinds of choices would not be deemed so difficult.
-Krysten Siba Bishop, Toronto.
- [quote]I don't see how anyone can go thru the removal and get reconstruction surgery in three damn months.
I know 2 women who had this done successfully over 10 years ago.
- R316, reading the original article it seems Krysten Siba Bishop's mother had breast cancer but survived while Krysten's younger sister has chosen not to have the double mastectomy.
- Are her new boobs going to be ready to appear at the "World War Z" premiere?
- [quote]Angelina never graduated HS.
What on earth does that have to do with anything? It's not as though the woman is claiming to have discovered the BRCA gene mutation or performed her own surgery or something. She acted on the advice of her doctors, who did graduate from HS, college, and med school.
By the way, your numerous misspellings, incomplete sentences, and other difficulties with the English language make it clear that you probably didn't graduate from HS, either, and if you did, you surely didn't learn much while you were there.
- R314 Thank you. Troll-dar certainly does put things into perspective.
- r320 =dumping her cookies as she's also r321 and arguing for Angie all over this thread.
- R320, I'm taking a page from another poster's book. Cheetoh stained AA flyover in section 8 housing, right?
- [quote][R320] =dumping her cookies as she's also [R321] and arguing for Angie all over this thread.
No, hon, I am r320, but not r321, and you are welcome to troll-dar me to see that I have not dumped my cookies since posting at r320.
- Ps, freaks who feel the need to reference Cheetos in every post, please note that it has no "h." Better yet, stop obsessing over fried snack foods and try actually addressing the questions directed to you; e.g., How is Angelina Jolie's level of formal education relevant to her decision to have a double mastectomy and share that information publicly? Why do you keep bringing up her level of education as though that somehow bolsters your claim that she really only had a "glorified boob job" or whatever wacko thing you think? And also, Why would you criticize someone else's educational background when it's clear you are poorly educated and of low intelligence yourself?
- [quote]Ps, freaks who feel the need to reference Cheetos in every post, please note that it has no "h."
Precious. Priceless reply from elderly AA residing in her section 8 housing who defends Angelina solely for the reason that she adopted a black child. Had Angelina just stuck with asian kids, then she'd never blip her radar.
Is that all it takes, senior black woman? A wealthy white woman adopts a black child and you're wasting your life on line defending her from every corner of the earth? All while living off the taxes of hard working citizens, might I add.
- I think more black people than not tend to DISapprove of white couples adopting black children, r326. As a white woman, I really couldn't say for sure, but I can tell you that I personally could not care less about the races of AJ's children, nor do her movies or her life in general interest me much. I simply think that her decision to discuss her mastectomy publicly could benefit some women, which is nice, and even if doesn't, it's certainly no cause for paranoid freakouts about how she really just had a boob job, or she didn't have surgery at all, or she's going to cause kazillions of women who don't need preventive mastectomies to race out and get one.
I notice that you did not address any of the questions I posed to you at r325. Quelle surprise.
- This thread has over 300 replies? The girl got some implants put in. what is the huge deal? It's not like she's christina applegate with no tits!!
- R327, you most certainly are NOT white!
- Ha. At this moment, after a long winter, I am white as a fish belly, r329.
- Oh dear. The long winter has nothing to do with it. You're a shut in. Typical Jolie fan. With yellow-orange stained fingers.
- She's very brave and I'm so glad I'm a leg and foot man!
- Link, r315? The timing here is really suspect compared to others I've read about who've had this situation.
Most rational people are not going get their medical advice from a disturbed celebrity who papps out her brood of kids. (And don't tell me they are always after her--Johnny Depp is also a global star & he doesn't have this problem.)
If she really wanted to do something about raising awareness, she could mention the BRCA case currently before SCOTUS.
It's less likely women would be aware of it, than the need for specific screening.
- [quote] If she really wanted to do something about raising awareness, she could mention the BRCA case currently before SCOTUS.
What a stupid remark. First she's not a lawyer. Second, that's a very complicated case which may have not so great ramifications for health care whichever way the Court decides. It's not a simple black or white issue. Thirdly, she does mention how costly the testing is which is all she need to.
Your post assumes she hasn't done something to raise awareness when she obviously has. It is world wide news It is everywhere. She did it in her own way and none of the criticism I have read make any sense at all.
- Why does she have to have a law degree to make people aware of a case that could arguably have the greatest impact on women's health since Roe v. Wade?
If "awareness" is the goal, she doesn't need to break it down, just make people aware it is going on and refer them to expert sources.
By your logic, she's not a doctor, so she shouldn't have said anything about her situation.
- Roe v Wade was a simple case both legally and technically when compared to Myriad. The only 2 justices who seemed to have a real grasp of the science were Sotomayor and Breyer. I wouldn't be surprised if they punt this case or make a very narrow ruling. As I think I referred to earlier Myriad's patent is running out soon anyway.
On the topic she did address the issue of access and affordability of testing. Try reading what she wrote.
- r336, the Myriad issues themselves are not complicated. What complicates them is putting them in a Constitutional context when considering the decision.
I did read what she wrote.
And I do agree that this will probably be punted or decided in separate cases.
- I've checked out some of the sites mentioned here. Jumped to the places mentioned there and fascinated with the mentality of Angelina's fans. They don't want to hear anything negative about this woman. So gullible. They're stuck at the same middle school level as Jolie. That's why they relate to her. But she is PR savvy. She can't pull this off with your average sharp shooter. Imagine if a prosecutor got to Q & A Jolie over her PR flap. Her stories fall apart when you apply logic. She never closes up the gap in the logic with sufficient explanations. You can see she didn't think it all the way through. This is what PR and juris doctorate get paid to do. Now I'm starting to believe she indeed is in charge of her own PR. She has the clout to pull off a NYT announcement but she leaves herself open to attack with faulty logical perceptions. It has to be seamless or you risk looking like a complete fool. BTW, the only people who matter are the ones that can see through this shameless PR scam of hers.
- What is it about this topic that has so jangled the nerves of the mentally ill?
- R335 Thanks, saved me the trouble.
This why they can't think out of the box. If you apply all logic her reasons for surgery are bogus. All she needed to say is that she was going to have them done anyway and then I'd see her logic for going the route she has. That's smart. That would truthfully cover her reasons for not getting a hysterectomy first. No woman wants to cut off their right to bear children also. I can understand why she would have the breast done as soon as possible and while she's still young and healthy enough. She's no dummy. Then she could have integrated the pros of saving her children heartache in the future. Mention the gene and mother. Instead she was not entirely truthful with presenting her reasons. Your reason is you're done having children and want to repair the damage. Anyone would do the same thing just don't try to present it without your main motivation. A frank, honest interview would have been the best approach. This is a massive PR fail among better people.
- She's a shitty actress, overly-plastic-surgeried, baby hoarding, N-and/or-BPD, junkie famewhore.
I don't believe a word she says. She's always been a lying sack of shit. She was like that before "Gia" and she's never changed one bit.
Happily, she's aging out of the business. I look forward to her "I'm retiring from acting to save the children of the world" press release.
- R341 is a mentally disturbed patient, with unresolved issues.
- Check MATE, Jennifer
- Gee, I wonder what else I can do for attention!
- reply 262\t
- Here, r345, let me do that for you...
- While I totally agree with r341 I do not wish this woman well. She still has vestiges of the old cray cray Angie in there, the one pre-homewrecker that was a real cool crazy chick.
Of course doing this extreme thing was crazy, but that is AJ for you. Totally batshit and EXTREME.
And the whole cancer thing where the genes say x I'd like to know how much has come true, one can be 87% like she said in her piece (or one of her many minions/slaves for low pay wrote it) and still not get it.
- ACLU does not want Myriad to patent genes. Sounds like the HS drop-out Jolie is all for this, again.
- It’s all part of well-timed for-profit corporate P.R. campaign that has been planned for months and just happens to coincide with the upcoming U.S. Supreme Court decision on the viability of the BRCA1 patent.
- Her nipples are up for sale on E-bay.
- She's probably selling them herself r350
- Someone on another blog said that since AJ was 21 she keeps getting more beautiful. I doubled over laughing. A couple of nose jobs, cheek implants and eyelid surgeries and you'll get better looking with age also. She should have been born male and her brother, the female. What do they call THAT gene mutation?
- Why is R341 a mental patient with issues? I could see if he went off on Meryl Streep, but Jolie? She made out with her brother and married BBT.
- Give this a couple of weeks for medical and genetic professionals to digest this and she'll be outed for her true motivation for this surgery. This will backfire and she'll once again be a laughing stock like she was with her leggy oscar pose.
- The lunatic poster is using proxies to avoid trolldar or she went back to the mothership for reinforcements. There cannot possibly be this many certifiably insane people posting here.
- She has been outed, 354. Read my link or the link at R349. She's a total fucking pig cunt.
- I guess you don't like her R356 but have some sympathy. I just read on yahoo's home page that her aunt (her mother's younger sister) died of breast cancer today.
Wow! To come and post this after the death of her
relative today... Wow...
- Some of you are total fucking idiots. For fucking shame. You right-wing assholes should just die.
- R356 YOU are a "pig cunt". I hope you die a horrible death.