As of Feb, autopsy was inconclusive. Coroner was waiting for toxicology result.
well, was there any new info?
I thought you meant me OP, I'm still alive!!
Recap of the case so far:
1/28/13: Elisa arrives in LA and checks in at the Cecil. Check-out was given as 2/1/13 at that time.
1/31/13: Elisa was last seen and reported missing to the LAPD.
1/14/13: LAPD releases a video of Elisa acting bizarre in the elevator of the Cecil. Frantically pushing buttons and looking scared. Or, possibly under the influence of drugs which there is no shortage of in and around the Cecil.
1/19/13: Her body was found in the water tank on the roof of the Cecil. People had been complaining about the water for sometime at this point.
2/22/13: An outbreak of TB in LA's skid row is announced with local authorities seeking Federal help. It was later announced by authorities that there was "no cause for concern." Ironically, LAM ELISA is the test conventionally used to determine the presence of TB.
2/25/13: Autopsy report released - inconclusive and further tests needed to determine cause. Where are the results?
2/27/13: Funeral arrangements made by Forrest Lawn Funeral Home in B.C.
3/12/13: Funeral held at Forrest Lawn only reported by one source. Remains still the property of LAPD.
r5, my conspiracy minded sister believes there is a connection between Elisa Lam and Lam Elisa.
She thinks maybe Elisa was the carrier.
Yeah, I know...
I check the 'net for updates periodically, but nothing. It seems to have disappeared completely.
[quote]An outbreak of TB in LA's skid row is announced with local authorities seeking Federal help. It was later announced by authorities that there was "no cause for concern." Ironically, LAM ELISA is the test conventionally used to determine the presence of TB.
This is not ironic -- at best, it's coincidental.
What the true mystery is whatever happened to tub girl.
Very strange they have not released toxicology. There's a TON of speculation online about this case.
What was she doing there in the first place?
Was she tripping on drugs and climbed into the tank herself?
Was she playing some kind of elaborate AR game?
RelatedL Was she lured to LA by an online acquaintance and killed?
Related: does this tie into the Lam Elisa theory - was she targeted/recruited for her name?
What are the most plausible theories?
Why not, R12? What happen? Will it blow up my computer?
What is AR game, please?
Um, what the fuck was that @ R11? Seriously.
I must be seriously slow. I don't understand the whole TB thing in relation to the water tank girl.
Can someone talk me through this?
R14 I believe it's Goatsie's kid sister.
R11 is tub girl. A sick and disturbing Japanese scat porn image.
"Alternate reality" or "augmented reality."
A simple one is something like "killer" played at workplaces and campuses. Most elaborate one would be Michael Douglas movie "The Game."
Supposedly she may have been acting out a scene from the film Dark Water in the elevator. Nobody really knows why she was staying in that place to begin with.
It's at least plausible to believe that she was involved in some sort of elaborate AR game and that the stakes were higher than she thought (or perhaps she did know and the thrill was in the risk).
Why does she hit several buttons when she gets into the elevator? Why don't the doors hurry up and close, is it the worlds slowest elevator? Why does she hop out at one point and do weird things with her hands? Does she have a history of drug addiction? If not why was she in a seedy part of LA alone, in a dodgy hotel? If she was being followed why doesn't that person ever show up? Aaaarrggghh, so many questions.
R17: Right after she died, there was a very huge and notable outbreak of TB in LA's skid row (the neighborhood the hotel was). The test for TB is called the "Lam Elisa" test and this girl's name is "Elisa Lam."
A lot of people think that's a pretty erie coincidence - especially when you add in:
-Nobody really knows what she was doing in LA
-The weird elevator video
-The hotel's strange history
Your theory sounds possible R20 especially considering the premise of the movie "Dark Water".
But is it a game played alone, because if it isn't what would the point be of her being alone in LA?
I know LA has a lot of people and a lot of unexplanined death and because of that autopsy results take longer but how long should it be for the last testresults to get back?
No I think there would definitely be other people involved. Kind of like one of those MMORPGs but spilled out into the real world.
In February they said 4-6 weeks, R24. At this point it's been at least 10.
The question is, why? I think they found something in her drug-wise that has left them with more questions than answers and now they realize they have a very weird case on their hands.
Municipally Mandated Ordnance - Rocket Propelled Grenades? How are we supposed to understand the acronym?
You used to get banned for posting the tub girl link. People would do it so much with no warning. Caused flame wars it did.
Sorry I'm watching a Downton Abby marathon.
Elisa Lam was for sure her real name?
R29: it seems to be her actual identity (her family has been identified, a few people who knew her have spoken of her etc.), but there is also an astonishing lack of detail about her life for such a bizarre and suspect case.
Perhaps her parents requested the privacy and friends, etc followed suit. Are they immigrant Chinese?
Elisa was on the lam.
But from what?
Why radio silence from LAPD and why is medis ignoring such a sensational story. Read on websleuths that a Canadian reporter was instructed by CBC not to do any more stories on this for now.
Someone on websleuths mentioned that this is a tactic in the FBI manual for catching serial killers - putting a tight lid on the flow of information. Not necessarily a cover up, but law enforcement is very unusually tight-lipped about this case - there has to be a good reason.
Someone over there also said tox. report is due mid-May. Hopefully an interesting development.
Find this case fascinating. I had NOT seen the full video yet (just the shortened one of her going in, and out of the elevator) and it is SO CREEPY. Wow - she is on drugs or has a mental illness.
I literally have chills. Why doesn't the elevator close? Why doesn't anyone else walk by, and who is she communicating with?
Last time she was seen alive was nightime Jan 31. Then the video which was in the wee hours. Then - gone.
So strange. Nobody even knows why she was in LA. Nobody knows why the elevator door wouldn't close. Who or what was holding it open?
How did Elisa Lam end up in a water tank on the roof when the only way up there was through a fire door that was locked and alarmed?
It is very mysterious. Is anyone looking into this case, or have they all given up?
She wasn't frantically pressing buttons. She was doing it very methodically. She didn't seem to be in any hurry.
Active investigation. Websleuths is also very on top of it.
We don't even know what happened to the guy stabbed to death in DC.
[quote] Why doesn't anyone else walk by, and who is she communicating with?
Probably a hotel employee who knows where the cameras are and stayed away from them so that he could kill her and get away with it.
Everybody who has ever read a book about serial killers knows that the best way to destroy DNA evidence is to put the body in water. Her killer knew what he was doing.
Since the unfortunate discovery of Elisa's body in February, I noticed that there have been two other cases involving females around the same age as Elisa and water.
First Tina was found in the first week of March in Newport Beach ( equidustance between San Diego and LA)
Now an unidentified victim in the first week of April in Goleta
All victims are college aged females. All have pending investigations and police stating they can't determine foul play or not. All at the beginning of the month (Elisa was thiught to have been kidnapped and assaulted Jan 31-Feb.1) All involving water.
What do you guys think? Could the suspect/s who murdered Elisa be on a murder spree up and down the coast of southern CA?
A hunt for a serial killer would explain a lot about the 180 turn on media reporting of the case.
Choking while cum gurgling
R42 & R43 are on the right track. Whenever serial killers are suspected, a tighter lid is kept by all (including media). Websleuths is a great place to learn more about this case; the posters there are really on top of things.
They've theorized everything from drugs to serial killers to the occult, and really none seem far-fetched considering the baffling facts (or lack thereof) in this case.
[quote] I noticed that there have been two other cases involving females around the same age as Elisa and water.
What does this mean? Drownings, Chinese water torture, waterboarding? Have they even been classified as homicides?
It has to be someone that works at or is associated with that hotel.
A portal is open in that hotel.
R46, Tina Hoang (the dead 20 y/o woman in Newport Beach) is definitely considered a homicide. Many people's red flags were raised in relation to Elisa Lam, because both victims were young, early-20's Asian females. However, it seems Ms. Huang had a spottier history (being arrested and linked to prostitution).
That doesn't eliminate the possibility of a SK, but it does seem like a different MO and choice of victim.
I just had a read of that webslueths forum. It answered the question of why the door doesn't shut. When Elisa hits all the buttons down the centre, one of those buttons is to hold the door open which is why the door doesn't shut. Hotel staff use it if they have several things they need to move into the elevator.There are a bunch of theories on webslueths about her being murdered, however she does behave in the video like she's either mentally ill or on drugs. Of course that doesn't explain how she ended up on the roof without setting off the alarm.
What is most fascinating is why a 21yr old girl would check herself into a seedy hotel in LA for a week without telling anyone where she was going or why, especially if she weren't hiding something.
EAR/ONS is back.
Lack of gills.
[quote]Municipally Mandated Ordnance - Rocket Propelled Grenades? How are we supposed to understand the acronym?
Dude, you seriously don't know what an MMORPG is?
It's a Massively-Multiplayer Online Role-Playing Game.
Think World of Warcraft. Surely you've heard of that?
Misogyny resulted in this outcome.
There are some definite hints on her (very bizarre) Tumblr blog that she may have been meeting up with a man she was interested in along her trip somewhere. She was very active online and her online forensics should reveal some about her activities on the trip. I can only imagine they are following these leads and holding back on the public info for some specific reason.
One interesting thing that was pointed out on Websleuths is that the amount of law enforcement attention that was given to this case (full court press, etc.) BEFORE her body turned up was very swift unusual for this type of 20-something hasn't-called-home on a trip sort of case.
The official explanation is that because she is from Canada it gets extra attention as and "international incident" and has to be treated very high priority. Problem with that explanation is the way the investigation has proceeded since the body was found - no heavy soliciting of the public for info or clues. No info or briefing AT ALL about the investigation's progress. Nothing. Stone cold silence.
Footage is not Hitchcockian. The elevator door is not shutting, and she thinks she's somehow the cause of it (setting off a sensor, etc.). She also thinks someone out in the hall might be paying tricks- hitting the 'open' button, etc..
.... and then the mysterious traveler from another country promptly disappears off right off the face of the earth - only to be found three weeks later in a water tower in on top of the same storied hotel off skid row in downtown LA.
Hitch would have loved it, R57.
I wonder if Interpol is involved. There's been a large uptick of organized crime in the Vancouver area, hasn't there?
Does the elevator door ever shut?
She wasn't on drugs. She didn't understand why the elevator wouldn't go. She pressed a bunch of buttons, she waved her hands and body in front of the door looking for a door close. She went out into the hall to see if there was somebody from the hotel she could alert to the issue that the elevator was stuck.
I'm thinking the hotel workers killed her to keep from getting fired for their own dereliction of duty.
I have heard spontaneous combustion has been ruled out as cause of death.
R61 thinks she's privy to the toxicology results. Do you know where Jimmy Hoffa's body is by chance?
R61 has been reading some Patricia Cornwell novels
To me, it looks like she was in the middle of a psychotic break with auditory hallucinations.
I'm having a delicious cup of Sanka decaffeinated coffee right now, would you care to join me?
What are you talking about r61? You have no idea what she was doing. And what "dereliction of duties" by the staff are you referring to? Are you suggesting that if an elevator door jams that's somehow the staff's fault and they're prepared to murder someone over it? If you had watched the entire unedited video you would see that door eventually closes. And if you watch the entire video you would see that r65 might be on to something.
R40, are you referring to the murder of Robert Wone? Still no news on that 2006 case. Dylan Michael Ward is giving massages in Miami Beach.
Just as a heads up, I wouldn't rely too heavily on Websleuths. Tricia, the owner, is desperate for attention. She once let a guy who went by the name "undrtheradar" use Websleuths to tout his crazy theories about a banker friend of the family killing JonBenet. Tricia was hoping "undrtheradar" was right about his theory and Websleuths would be famous.
Tricia also goes on various low-rent talk shows to claim she was almost a victim of Ted Bundy, even though she obviously wasn't.
I have personal experience with a missing persons case talked about on Websleuths. Tricia had one moderator pretend to be a relative of the missing woman and claim that she was sure the woman was murdered by her husband. Tricia then had a friend show up to say no, the woman ran off on her own, once even claiming she had "proof" the woman was in a nunnery of all things. The friend recruited people to help her out, and they all injected themselves into the case, bothering police and relatives. Mostly, these people posted deliberate disinformation to try to sway the case, or occasionally to reveal a "big theory" that they hoped would get them on the news. It was all about getting attention for Websleuths and Tricia, they didn't care one bit about the missing woman.
We did accidentally get real info once: One of the people who injected themselves into the case somehow found out that GPS info the police had showed the woman's car was probably off a steep cliff. Three months later when the snow melted, sure enough, we find out the woman's car went off that steep cliff. But we only knew THAT bit was real after the fact. You just can't tell from reading a live thread which is real information and which is deliberate lies planted by Tricia.
Flavored water is so HOT right now!
Thanks r69, I had never heard of them before this thread and had no idea whether they were dodgy or not.
Don't know anything or care much about the Tricia drama, but Websleuths is one of the few resources online that keeps hope alive for obscure missing persons. I don't know much about behind-the-scenes, but there are definitely some dedicated, resourceful posters that keep cases relevant long after the media or police seem to care.
Agree with R72 - regardless of whoever founded it, it's currently the go-to resource and clearing house for info on unsolved murders and disappearances.
With any crowd-sourced platform you always have to read with healthy skepticism, but in terms of the info available there's no other resource that even comes close to comparing at the moment.
Tricia didn't found the site, she bought it.
I'd agree that it was a great resource if I didn't know first hand that Tricia was manipulating the info about missing persons that is available on Websleuths. She also encourages people to literally interfere with cases by contacting police, relatives, and more than once badmouthing nonprofits that go out to search for these missing people.
But even you said, R74 that the info you got there ended up cracking the case. Would you rather have not known?
I don't know who this Tricia person is and I couldn't care less about her drama. I know many of the online people involved in the JBR case are total loons and she is probably one of them for all I know or care.
But I think it's a disservice to tell people to avoid the site. It's a message board so of course there will be liars and of course the moderators may have an agenda of their own. Same with any message board. That being said, it's a great spot to find lots of info on lot of cases - particularly a case like Elisa Lam where there is not much news coverage and not a lot of places to go for info.
Many of the posters there are very meticulous in organizing information and work really hard to get everything sourced and accurate. Check out the shear volume of material they have on Elisa Lam - quite impressive.
No, R75, the info didn't end up cracking the case. The info someone on Websleuths posted was known by the police and the lawyers for months, just briefly leaked on Websleuths. No one on the board ever did anything to "break" the case.
All I am saying is some of that "great info" you are reading is deliberate misinformation, lies, mistakes and baiting for hits. Sometimes it's just a user who wants attention or makes a mistake, other times it's more nefarious.
At the very least, check what is posted with other sources first. Verify everything, do not simply accept what you're told on Websleuths. That would be true of ANY online forum, and it's no disservice to remind you of this.
Similarly, it could just as easily be said that you have a personal beef with Tricia that has nothing to do with Websleuths or perhaps you run a competing site and made up all of these stories, R76.
We have no way of knowing which is true. That's the nature of open online forums. Thanks for the reminder, though.
Boy you're stretching it, R77. I hope you use better analytic skills when thinking about cases.
[quote] I hope you use better analytic skills when thinking about cases.
Better skills than you who could not figure out how to access a resource for deciphering acronyms, R78 aka R27? Don't worry, I do.
[quote] Municipally Mandated Ordnance - Rocket Propelled Grenades? How are we supposed to understand the acronym?
And by the way it's "analytical" not "analytic."
Oh, dear. It's you, again. Sigh. You're the type who doesn't need rope to hang herself.
(I know she's still dead)
(R33) That was my research on Websleuths you refer to. I have no real evidence that a serial killer is responsible, but with the media in three different countries going silent all at once, and the involvement of Interpol early on this is the only thing that makes sense to me. So very little was revealed on the case, I resorted to drawing inferences from police statements, Canadian news sources, and her family and friends comments. Nothing points to this being accidental due to drugs or mental illness other than biased interpretations of a 2 min video with no audio.
Interestingly, there are far fewer reports in Canadian media but what they share is far more accurate and telling. For instance, the door to the roof was not locked per LAFD code but when opened it should trip an alarm. Obviously that didn't happen. It is still an issue. A member of Websleuths visited the Cecil last month and found the door to the roof was wide open.
The CBC was the only to report when a missing persons investigation started that the LAPD had evidence that EL was in danger or may have been harmed.
Given that is most likely a murder investigation, I can see the media's 180; they are simply complying with law enforcement. What I do not get is why the coroner will not release that manner of death is undetermined? Autopsy reports in CA are in the public domain; Whitney Houston's 12 pager is freely available on the web, so it is not likely EL's family is responsible for the absence of media coverage.
Her blog/Tumblr continued to see updates even after her death.
She choke on noodle.
It is so strange that months later there is still no word on cause of death, R84. Are they trying to flush someone out of the woodwork? Maybe they've profiled a killer that they think can't stand the lack of attention to the case and they think this will drive him to do something careless/ give himself away?
I would really love to know what is going on with this.
Can you refresh my memory as to what the CBC said about evidence Lam may have been in danger?
Let's all calm down now and share a nice hot cup of delicious Sanka decaffeinated coffee and go to bed.
Sadly, she drank too much Sanka and dissolved her innards completely.
A friend of mine is an ER nurse at Good Samaritan hospital in downtown LA. The hospital is near Skid Row, and they get a lot of homeless and underserved, including SROs like the ones who live at the Cecil. He said that a guy came in with complaints of stomach pain and a low grade fever. He also had a high white blood cell count. He claimed that he was living at the Cecil and drinking the water just before Elisa Lam was discovered and attributed it to that. Coincidence? You decide.
[R85] The CBS never released specifics, but they were the only news source to even reveal that the police had any evidence at all.
The police did directly mention her cell phone. During the press conference, the police officer responded to a reporter's question just saying cryptically that they had her cell phone but did not want to talk about it at that time. Or any other time apparently.
I agree with you on why perhaps they closed off media reporting. I am not sure about flushing out a killer; only because it might drive some one to kill again. Though it makes sense that such a person would like the attention especially given the bizarre water tower scenario. I even suspect that the death was made to look as though it might be accidental given no obvious body trauma. Drugging her was a part of it too. How else do you get her into an enclosed space like that without any screaming or fighting in self defense?
This thread stinks of fat women.
So it doesn't seem that mysterious. Most likely she met her killer online and he told her to meet up in that hotel, having already figured out a way to deal with the alarm and then everything went according to his plan.
As for the video, I agree she just tries to find a way to make it work, by not standing in the way of some possible sensor or catching the sensor so it'll "know" there is a customer etc. In the end she is getting a little more expressive due to frustration. In that situation I would have probably started to sigh and throw up my arms and talk loudly half to the elevator, half hoping someone would hear. Might have looked weird on a silent youtube clip too, and I promise I'm not fighting any voices who tell me to jump into water tanks.
[quote] Most likely she met her killer online and he told her to meet up in that hotel
I should think LE in either US or CN would have tracked down anyone who spoke to her online. They caught the Craig's List killer pretty quickly via online tracking.
Sifted through all the facts on this case a few months ago. Sorry I can't provide links. What I learned is that Elisa had severe psychosis well-known to her family and friends. She had been heavily medicated for her mental illnesses. She was no longer enrolled as a student at UBC because of it.
The most likely scenario is that she climbed into the water tank on her own in a psychotic episode and drowned. There were no signs of sexual trauma or violence. Furthermore, it would have been nearly impossible for someone to have carried her up the ladder and placed her body in the tank.
This was such a bizarre -- and very sad story.
Regarding two other strange murder cases: JonBenet and David Wone.
I believe that Patsy Ramsey accidentally killed her daughter while trying to hit her husband on the head with some sort of heavy object as he was molesting or raping her. That's what John Ramsey's secretary stated that she overheard in a phone conversation. Uptight, fundie Republicans lie about dark, sick, family secrets.
I would bet anything that Robert Wone was murdered by one of the creepy housemates/throuples in a meth or bath-salts fueled rage. The other two helped cover it up. What I don't know is whether Robert Wone was initially a willing sex participant, not that it matters. He was murdered and I hope the "throuple" live their lives in fear and misery.
I would love to see a movie of what really happened the night Wone was murdered.
Starting with all the mundane activities - him calling his wife about staying in town, etc. Then within the first five minutes (of the movie), he arrives.
What the fuck did he walk into? Who was on drugs? Who started murdering? Then every last detail of the cover up, almost in real time.
After the first half hour, the murder is over, the police have already arrived and evidence is being bagged.
The rest of the movie would be about how the accomplices deal with their relationships and themselves during the investigation, trial and outcome.
After I die, I hope there is some type of magical movie theater in the after life where we can watch exactly what happened for any historical event.
I'd watch the Wone Murder, along with the murder of Christ, all the presidential assassinations -- I'd probably watch a lot of murders that we know what happened - Manson murders, for example. Just to see if I could stomach it. I would practically live in that theater!
[quote]I would bet anything that Robert Wone was murdered by one of the creepy housemates/throuples in a meth or bath-salts fueled rage. The other two helped cover it up. What I don't know is whether Robert Wone was initially a willing sex participant, not that it matters. He was murdered and I hope the "throuple" live their lives in fear and misery.
In the trial about covering-up evidence, the three were tried together. The ONLY reason they walked is because the judge stated that one of them may not have been guilty. She didn't say which one. However, they all provided the same tale so there's no way to know which one is going along with the killer.
They moved to Florida, since a home is safe from legal proceedings - the same reason OJ moved to Florida.
One of the trio runs a massage business in Miami Beach. The lawyer doesn't seem to have taken the Florida Bar exam. The guy who works for promoting the milk industry "Got Milk?" is still working for the milk people in northern Virginia. Does he live there part time or does he do all his work from their love nest in Florida?
Nobody has been charged with the murder of Robert Wone, yet.
R67, would you know a joke if you saw one? Like, anytime soon?
"Accidental," according to the coroner. Interesting comments following the article.
Accidental, total bullshit. Bipolar couldn't have contributed to hear death unless she was suicidal, which she didn't seem to be at the time. Sounds like they couldn't figure out what caused her death and are taking the easy way out, or it's a coverup.
This can go anyway.
Conspiracy or what the coroner said.
Perhaps, the door to the roof was not locked, and the woman in her delusion, thought someone was after, escaped to the roof. I guess there was a ladder attached to the tank, and she climbed inside of it.
Scary info I didn't know:
The coroner report noted that the medical examination found no visible signs of trauma on Lam's body and toxicology tests found nothing that contributed to her death. Her death was ultimately concluded to be an "accidental drowning," with her bipolar disorder listed as a "significant condition."
Okay, so far we have a really unusual story that we can generally chalk up to the inexplicable actions of a mentally ill woman. If you want to take things a little farther into the Twilight Zone, though, here are a few more creepy facts:
The Cecil Hotel has a hell of a dark past. Richard Ramirez, a serial killer and rapist known as the "Night Stalker," lived on the hotel's 14th floor for several months in 1985. Johann "Jack" Unterweger is another serial killer who lived in the hotel in 1991. In 1964 a woman was found dead in her ransacked room, having been stabbed, strangled, and raped by an known assailant. The hotel has also been home to a number of suicide deaths from patrons who leaped from an upper-floor windows, including a woman who jumped from the 9th floor in 1962 and killed a man walking below.
Elisa's death is uncomfortably similar to a horror movie plot. The 2005 film Dark Water (a remake of a 2002 Japanese movie by the same name) tells the story of a young woman found drowned in a hotel water tank. A scene in the movie depicts an elevator malfunctioning, and a character is named Cecilia. Cecilia/Cecil?
There's a REALLY weird medical test name coincidence. Just days after Elisa Lam's body was found, national health experts were called into Skid Row near the hotel to investigate a deadly persistent tuberculosis (TB) outbreak that local health officials called the largest in a decade. More than 4,500 people may have been exposed to tuberculosis and scientists linked the outbreak to a TB strain unique to L.A. A test used to diagnose tuberculosis, particularly in patients with advanced immunosuppression? The LAM-ELISA. That's ... huh.