Roger tries new tactics to gain new clients.
Pete has an awkward run-in with a client.
Peggy wears a pretty blue outfit.
I just hope Bobby Kennedy isn't killed tonight. I need at least one more week's reprieve. Although I don't think I'll get it.
I hope this is the episode where Betty goes back to being a blonde. Does that make me shallow?
I think RFK will be in a few episodes. There's two and a half months between the events.
I thought Roger was supposed to have had open heart surgery?
I hope so, r3.
Roger is such a shit, but a lovable one.
Pete is just a shit.
Joan's breasts have their own zip code.
I'm so bored by the goings on in the Ted Chow office.
Uh oh, the Rosen's kid is going to Paris in May 1968? I hope he doesn't get caught up in the riots going on there at that time. Very bad civil unrest went down.
This show is such a cliche at this point.
R7 - Ted Chough
This Roger-stewardess storyline is already losing me.
Is Megan's mother gonna fuck Dr. Rosen?
I don't get what Roger's doing.
Yeah, I have no clue what the Roger storyline is all about, or what's going on in the Chough agency. Some of the dialogue is atrocious.
How much longer until they kill off Julia Ormond?
This show is a snoozefest of epic propositions. I'm only holding on til they reveal that Bob Benson is Don's illegitimate son. Anyone know when that gonna happen already?
Who is the guy Pete just ran into with the hookers?
I love Julia Ormond. Marie makes me laugh.
What is the restaurant where Don was having dinner? I know it's in a New York hotel. A gorgeous place with rosewood paneling. It's driving me crazy.
His father- in-law. Awkward.
If this was Smash, r18, it would be the Hotel Carter.
I think that was Trudy's father at the brothel?
Megan's mother (Julia Ormond) gives great bitchface/disgust face.
Phipps Fountain and Tea Room
LOL Pete's a maniac.
Good lord, that argument scene and Joan's little speech was really poorly acted.
How is the brothel SO much worse than a bath house? Because they were wearing suits?
Stan strikes the perfect balance between muscular and beefy. Classic example of fit-fat. I want to wrap myself in his thick arms.
"The biggest, blackest prostitute you've ever scene."
Spot on R24 -- that was an awful scene.
Yep. Saw that coming.
Christina Hendricks has so far twice been caught not seeming to know what expression to use for the camera. Does this director (Jennifer Getzinger) hate her?
So everyone hates Mad Men now?
No, everyone loves to hate Mad Man now.
Ha! Pete almost fell down the stairs!
Joan's little outburst was poorly acted.
Those stairs again.
So Trudy's mom is dead? So much for mutually assured destruction.
Abe has nice feets.
That Dancer Firzgerald Sample guy was a bitch.
Megan mentioned Don flying off the balcony. Foreshadowing?
Peggy's boss's last name is spelled CHAOUGH.
Ted Chow is a terrible actor. Jon Hamm is brilliant.
Wait, I missed it... When did Trudy's mom die?
"With a 200 pound negro prostitute!"
No, no, no. I don't want to see Peggy and her boss together.
r30 -- It's not the director's fault. Christina H. is not much of an actress. She can't do more than a few facial expressions. Compare that with Jon Hamm's look of disgust at dinner with the fat pig and his pixie wife. He barely curled his lip, and yet it was intense and said everything. Kartheiser is also pretty damn good -- that fall down the stairs was perfectly done. Wonder how many takes that took?
Kennedy was shot June 5, and according to Peggy's memo, we're at May 18th. So there may be another episode before the assassination.
If only they could off Megan as well. Man, she's either a poorly written character or there just isn't any acting skill there.
I agree that poor Kevin Rahm is way out of his league sharing scenes with Jon Hamm. The anticipating he was doing in the bar scene was excruciating, so badly acted. But Hamm was wonderful. I loved "I'm sick of this psychological warfare, go grab yourself a table." This episode was written by Weiner, by the way.
I wonder if the Dancer Fitzgerald Sample's lost luggage was what helped.
I loved this episode if only because it was like the first episode of the season that they remembered this was a show about the advertising business.
The whole Ted's agency and Don's agency merging thing though was too cute at the end. I was kind of expecting Peggy would somehow become a partner when that one guy died.
As it is, it feels like Weiner decided spinning off Peggy was a mistake so he's putting her back under Don's roof again because he didn't know how to write for two ad agencies.
Ted Chaough is set replace Megan Hilty on SMASH.
This episode was Hamm's best acting this season. Excepting that awful fight scene with Pete, Hamm was very good. He seems so detached during the soapy/relationship scenes, but comes to life in the advertising scenes. Agreed that Hendricks should NEVER be given anything really dramatic/emotional to play again. About all she can play effectively is snark.
Abe in overalls. Yumm!
Peggy saying "I hate change" in that scene with Abe paid off nicely in the final scenes.
Hendrick's scene might have been better received if it -- oh, I don't know -- made any fucking sense whatsoever?
Seems like Meagan and Don are rekindling their romance ?.. Bit then Don does not want the doc to move....
Agreed r49. I'm no Joan/CH fan, but the character's reaction was just stupid and nonsensical.
I liked Christina Hendricks and thought Joan's reaction made perfect sense.
[quote]What is the restaurant where Don was having dinner? I know it's in a New York hotel. A gorgeous place with rosewood paneling. It's driving me crazy.
It looked as if those scenes were filmed at the Baltmore in downtown LA.
Yeah, Joan's reaction made sense, given she had to god knows what to keep Herb happy, and it played nicely into her insecurity about not being on the same level as the other partners. However, Hendricks wasn't able to sell the scene. The entire scene, including Don and Pete going at it, was just poorly executed on every level.
The Joan tantrum scene was so Melrose Place.
But where/what is the restaurant?
It was the Mortimer Club, r18/r56. I hear they served a great breakfast and the parking was free.
I didn't think CH's acting in the scene was bad.
At least it certainly didn't stick out in any way for me negatively in the context of the rest of the scene.
"I saw your father in a crosstown whorehouse with a 200 pound black prostitute!"
Looking forward to Harry Hamlin's character with Roger
I liked the episode, the best this season.
Why all the complaining about the acting? Joan wasn't angry about losing the car company and her part in getting them in the first place; it was about going public with less to offer.
Pete had just told she would be worth a million dollars in stock.
Will Harry be showing off his delicious silver dollar nipples?
Joan's hair in the first scene was completely anachronistic. The feathered, layered hair was completely wrong. A rare misstep fof MAD MEN.
Harry Hamlin's character will now have an ample opportunity to fuck Megan.
Jon Hamm's ass is criminally underrated.
Abe looks like he smells
The actor playing Abe looks a lot like the guy who plays Peggy's bf. I have trouble telling them apart.
r67, did you pull this same joke on the last thread? Or must we explain again how Ginsberg and Abe are different people?
I thought Joan's scene was fine. You could tell she was about to boil over with humiliation and indignation before she exploded. She's sick of men making decisions that could blow her world apart. She sure didn't want an already rich man like Don destroying her chance for a million dollars.
Where's the Dante's Inferno poster? I'm with you! This episode was the fifth circle: anger. A lot of pissed off people in this episode.
I bet RFK dies in two episodes. It would be the seventh circle: violence (the episode is called The Crash). Poor Peggy, she said she loves Bobby Kennedy. She even had a Bobby for President mug on her desk.
Some laugh out scenes: Pete slipping down the stairs, the creatives running away after eavesdropping/watching Joan's outburst in the conference room. Someone, somewhere predicted weeks ago that the agencies might merge. Very pat. But, good fodder to come hopefully. Good to see Hamm's acting as Don lit up reading the dossier on the new Chevy car. I love me some Marie! More Marie. She is a much more interesting character than Megan and Ormond can act circles around pretty what's her name. Marie and Joan in a scene agreeing or sparring about something would be "a scream" to use parlance from then.
January Jones must be majorly pissed that they broke up Don and Betty, as it caused her screen time to diminish drastically.
Weiner needs to write more episodes.
R57 Blanche and Rose were right...you are NOT the kind of person I want as a friend.
[quote]Joan's hair in the first scene was completely anachronistic. The feathered, layered hair was completely wrong. A rare misstep fof MAD MEN.
Yeah, it would have looked great in about 10 years with a Halston or Diane von Furstenberg wrap dress.
Joan's enormous knockers are REALLY distracting.
She's like a circus freak.
I'm fascinated by Bob Benson floating around in so many scenes, often in the background. What the hell? It's almost ghostly.
OK. One thing I know and Matt Weiner confirmed in one of his earlier interviews, is that a lot of the situations or anecdotal stuff comes from real life war stories of Madison Avenue stars from the old days.
I'm talking about suicides, or getting clients the way Roger did with the Chevy/GM guy at the airport. 2 A.M. boozey negotiations that lead to mergers, so many little things that flesh this out and make it authentic. It has less to do with décor and fashion and hair styles and more to do with the era.
So my question is: Are there any good books, non fiction books biographies, etc. from the golden era of advertising and Madison Avenue were I can find some juicy, gossip stories?
Fucking Bob Benson, always with the coffees and offering to pay for everybody's prostitutes.
Regarding Bob, let's just say that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Hint, hint.
I read "Having It All" by Helen Gurley Brown many moons ago and always think of Joan as her.
I thought Joan's scene was very well done. I happen to like Christinha Hendricks and I liked her in that scene a lot. I was nauseated by Peggy and her boss kissing.
Tonight I fell in love with Roger all over again. I think Don is best when he is being Don Draper the Ad Executive. I often find Pete Campbell repulsive. And it's pretty clear no matter what happens Don & Roger will always be on the same page. Even when they fight or disagree.
I have a prediction: Marie, Megan's mother, is going to figure out that Don is fucking the doctor's wife. She is going to threaten him and tell him to get his act together. He will comply. The Doctor & his wife move to Houston.
R79, your speculating doesn't deserve our efforts to guess.
Speculating always works so well on Mad Men threads. Remember the speculation that Megan was secretly a corporate spy?
When are they going to get rid of the actress who plays Megan? Her acting is painfully bad. I hope she finds out about the affair and just leaves for good.
Correction - he said "negro prostitute"
I think it's just the one poster who whines over and over again about Jessica Pare as Megan.
On the AMC "Inside the Episode," Matt Weiner says the Campbells' marriage is over now. So my fear is that now we will hardly see anything of trudy anymore, and Alison brie was one of my favorite actors on the show.
Did ad agencies really have so many divorced partners back in the 60s? Since the Campbells will divorce, that means of the five living partners in SCDP, four will be divorced (Roger--twice!--, Don, Joan and Pete). That seems very high: I thought the boom in the divorce rate didn't really happen in the US until the mid70s.
R87 - The divorce rate climbed during the 60s. The show illustrates that. Remember in the first season where Helen Bishop was almost a pariah because she was divorced. Now, it's everyone.
They can't get rid of Megan Corporate Spy! Her teefs hold all the secretsss!
[quote]January Jones must be majorly pissed that they broke up Don and Betty, as it caused her screen time to diminish drastically.
I bet JJ actually doesn't care and is thankful just to be in such an iconic series and to have once been a major player in it. She's just not a great actor. Her first couple of seasons as Betty are probably the only very good acting she'll ever do. So, she's probably just enjoying the ride, the reduced hours.
I think the main message was about the different "kinds" of mad men characters; there was definitely a strong "male" influence. At the start, a woman, nerd, and old man are carefully and deliberately preparing a sensible plan for their futures. They all are trying to take control the best way they know how. Throughout the episode Roger and Don manipulate women and fight other men and generally destabilize the lives of the people around them, for their own purposes. In the end, Megan, Joan, and Peggy suffer: the hard work they've done as women to control their destinies is undone by both, taking that control away. Their progress was illusory, that's why Joan lashes out and Peggy cries, she's back under Don's thumb, something she took a long time to get away from.
R77 & R80 I always thought that Peggy was based on Mary Wells Lawrence.
Don is so impulsive he's a horrible boss. He saved the agency again, but together he and Pete practically destroyed it.
But the new agency may be in for real trouble--according to Alan Sepinwall, the XP-8987 they're marketing for Chevrolet will turn out to be the Chevy Vega, which was a huge disaster.
"Looking forward to Harry Hamlin's character with Roger."
They should totally make out.
Think about it.
R93 I thought it might be the Nova.
The Vega debuts in 1971 and isn't discontinued until 1977 so SCDP isn't in any immediate danger.
R93, XP-887 (no '9')was definitely the Chevy Vega, which is puzzling because I thought Don mentioned that XP-887 was Chevy's bid to outdo the Ford Mustang (or something to that effect), and the Vega certainly wasn't in the same league. I thought initially that it might be the redesigned Corvette C3/Stringray, based on the Mako Shark II concept car (XP-830). The redesigned C3 was kept under wraps until just a week before its unveiling, a PR campaign very similar to Don's idea of a slow reveal to keep the public in anticipation.
r53, I think you mean the Biltmore.
Why are the character of Mad Men selling Jaguar and then Chevy, but we have to deal with all those damn Lincoln car commercials? And Jon Hamm's voice is always pushing Mercedes on us?
I was thinking the 'vette Stingray too. I'm an old queen and I remember.
As for Jaguar, I just don't get it. The guy they were dealing with, the fat fuck who wanted Joan to seal the deal, he's just a Jaguar dealer.
What are they doing with him and why aren't they consulting with the big time Jaguar execs or at least the Jaguar marketing people? Jaguar is going to go down the toilet soon. It's 1968. Very unreliable car, too. Lots of trouble.
If you're over the show, do us all a fvor and quit watching and posting about it. You only come across as contrarians thinking they're cool.
Was that Teresa Ganzel as Herb's wife?
And yes, Joan's hair was all wrong when it was down but her hair has never looked right when it was down, dating back to the first season when she was typing the memo about Roger's heart attack. Is it that hard for them to do a flip?
So is Peggy being promoted in the new combined firm?
Peggy is caught like a mouse in a trap. You almost have to wonder if Don planned the merger to get her back. I don't think he did, but it couldn't have worked better if he had. Don considers Peggy his true soulmate.
Love the episode title Immediate Release and Don got a hummer in this episode, Pete and father in law visited a whore house, and Roger is fooling around w/a stewardess...
This episode felt more genuinely like the late 60s than any previous episodes of the season, I thought. The rest of the season has felt forced in that regard somehow. Like they just couldn't get it quite right or something. The music sort of blended in a little better, the clothes seemed less like costumes, the offices, hotels, and airports seemed more naturally 60s style.
Jennifer Pare does a much better job of acting when she's in scenes with Julia Ormond. She and Jon Hamm just lack any sort of onscreen chemistry.
I thought the car was the Camaro.. no?
The Camaro had already debuted in 1966-67. This season takes place in 1968.
Could someone explain to me some things I'm just not understanding this season?:
*How is Herb Rennet able single-handedly to scotch the jaguar account? I thought Rennet was not one of the Jaguar executives but just the head of the Jaguar New Jersey dealerships. Last season his approval for the Jaguar account would have cinched the deal (which was why Joan agreed to sleep with him), but was not cosnidered absolutely necessary (which was why Don thought Joan didn't need to sleep with him).
*If Herb Rennet is the lynchpin for Jaguar, why would Don have treated him so badly, even in anger? They never would have spoken to the guy from Lucky Strike that way and he was much more insulting to the SCDP types. And why would Roger have taken the chance of losing Jaguar by missing dinner by taking the flight with the GM guy?
*Why does Tom Vogel (Trudy's father) have the only control at Vick's over who gets their advertising account?
*Why is Tom Vogel living in NYC now rather than in Delaware where he used to live? Isn't Vicks headquartered in Delaware?
*If Tom Vogel did not know that Trudy and Pete's marriage was in trouble (which I assume he didn't, since he thought Pete would not tell Trudy Pete saw Tom at the brothel), why would he endanger Pete's (and thereby Trudy's and Tammy's) livelihood by withdrawing Vicks from SCDP?
What happened for them to lose the Jaguar account? My shitty cable skipped everything from the wife's puppy story to the blowout at the office at the next day. And yes, the wife was a frau but what did she do that was so "deeeschusteen"?
It's May 1968. Bobby Kennedy is killed in June.
I think Pete's partnership may not continue with the new merger. I think Pete is toast.
r111: Herb Rennet, the Jaguar dealership guy, insulted Don when the women had all gone to powder their noses by saying he was going to run Don's advertising ideas past the kid he had hired to make flyers for his dealership. Don was so angry at that he told Herb he was no longer going to deal with him directly, and then got up from dinner and made Megan and Marie leave with him. Don's behavior was so insulting herb had to withdraw his account (the actor who plays herb did a good job of conveying he really did not want to withdraw his account but that Don had forced his hand).
Herb is in charge because he pays in part for the ads as the largest (only?) US dealers. Also, Jaguar does not have offices in the US so their US dealers are naturally going to have a lot of control over US advertising.
For Don, running copy by Herb's "kid doing flyers" was the last straw. After the Joan humiliation and the effort to subvert the national campaign to his purposes. Full of ironies--Don didn't know they needed to fire Jaguar at the time and Joan is outraged, not relieved.
In every scene, Don looks as if he's intently focused on trying to squeeze out a fart, or as if he's not sure if was a dry fart or a wet one.
Definitely the Vega:
[quote]In 1968, GM chairman James Roche announced GM would produce the new car in the U.S. in two years. Ed Cole was chief engineer and Bill Mitchell, vice-president of design staff, was chief stylist. Cole wanted a world-beater in showrooms in 24 months.
[quote]The Vega was conceived in 1968 to utilize newly developed all-aluminum die-cast engine block technology – the first sand-cast aluminum blocks had preceded the decision to build the car by two years.
[quote]GM Vice President John Z. DeLorean, appointed Chevrolet’s general manager a year before the Vega's introduction, oversaw the Vega launch. . . In Motor Trend's August 1970 issue, DeLorean promoted the upcoming car as one that out-handled “almost any” European sports car, out-accelerated “any car in its price class”, and would be “built at a quality level that has never been attained before in a manufacturing operation in this country, and probably in the world."
But the firm will be fine for now. The car was a success at first.
R110, I am also confused about Trudy's dad removing the Vick's account???
Also, will the loss of Vicks and new merger cause Pete to lose his partnership ....poor Trudy.... And she was just beginning to forgive Pete...
Maybe it's a the times, but I agree with r110, but how is one person in a big corporation able to cancel the contract with SCDP? i.e. sleazy Herb able to negate the whole contract with SCDP?
One person can fire the ad agency if he's in charge of marketing.
So Matt Weiner insists on the deliberately vague "previews" for the next week but he's entirely cool saying stuff like "The Peggy/Baby storyline is over." "Pete and Trudy are over". Uh, thanks, Wiener.
You don't need inside information to know that Pete and Trudy are over after that last scene. And who, exactly, is waiting with bated breath for the latest on Peggy's baby?
Did everyone catch the book Ted was reading in Peggy's fantasy?
R77, A classic book about Madison Avenue in the '60's, is From the Folks Who Brought You Pearl Harbour, by Jerry Della Femina.
Yes, R123. It was a joke. Peggy just fantastized about him reading something by Ralph Waldo Emerson so the book was called "Something."
Dr. Rosen absolutely knows Don is fucking his wife.
Marie has an incredibly low tolerance for people whom she consider fools, especially without knowing (as Don also did not know) that the company could soon afford to drop Jaguar in favor of a bigger car company.
Marie let Herb's wife carry the conversation, with ever trying to help her. Given the situation, the wife did a better than adequate job.
I agree with every angry word Joan said to Don.
Pete had just told Joan that her stock would be worth close to a million dollars. And then Don walks in and casually talks about getting rid of Jaquar, one of many decisions he's made on his own without thinking of the consequences.
Who knew that a brand of car would replace the Norwegian Catholic thing as a bone of contention here?
Herb's wife's name was Peaches.
Peaches and Herb. Ha.
I'm so sick of Norwegian Catholic thing. Give it a fucking rest. No one cares.
What does Bert Cooper do again?
It was Bert who was negotiating with the investment banker, so he is probably a "special projects" guy.
Did Christina Hendricks graduate from the Paris Hilton Academy of Acting? She reminded me of Kim Kardashian in that first scene. I thought the humongous tits were a distraction but the back fat came in a close second in this episode. I also agree with the poster who commented on her hairdo. It just looked odd. I can't imagine her in anything I woud ever want to see once this show ends.
[quote] Pete had just told Joan that her stock would be worth close to a million dollars. And then Don walks in and casually talks about getting rid of Jaquar, one of many decisions he's made on his own without thinking of the consequences.
Who plans on taking a company public without discussing with all the key players? Two wrongs don't make a right.
R125, and if you remember, Chaough made a reference to Emerson's "transparent eyeball" when he wooed Peggy into joining his firm.
If the actress playing Joan is wearing padding or a corset or something that can push up your back fat making it look worse. The actress is a voluptous woman but she is padded out in this show to look bigger.
If I were Christina, I'd remove those huge implants after the show ends.
THey are beyond distracting.
It is, r86. And it's tiresome.
Many of the cast are not the greatest of actors. Reminds me of The Sopranos, where you had a few exceptional actors, and then some bad though charismatic actors who were elevated by the writing and direction. Christina Hendricks is Mad Men's Drea DeMateo. The real treat is seeing the great character actors who guest star.
A couple of good books on the subject are The Hidden Persuaders by Vance Packard - about the use of psychology in advertising, published in 1960.
Someone upthread mentioned Jerry Della Famina's From the Wonderful Folks Who Gave You Pearl Harbor and it's probably the best inside look at the subject and time.
[r71] It's quite possible she is simply happy to have time to stay home with her child
Do you think Pete falling was in the script, or just a lucky break they caught while the camera was rolling?
I thought it was the best episode of the season. Loved it all.
R144 It looks rehearsed in the clip linked above.
I like this episode. It was funny.
Why did the earlier poster think Vicks was in Delaware?
Even if it is was a Delaware corporation that just means that it filed papers to incorporate there. It could have its headquarters somewhere else and almost certainly whatever department handled advertising would have offices in New York regardless of where the headquarters of the company was.
Peggy is a cunt.
Is the merger the first step in killing off Roger and Bert?
Hard for Don to become the old man upstaged by the younger generation as long as those two are rattling around.
I wouldn't want Roger and Bert to be on all the time, but I would really miss them if they took them off the show.
Roger & Bert don't DO anything, I mean there's lots of corps like that too, but in a merger, they would be OTD. Don still works occasionally although he's also been resting on his laurels.
Roger just landed Chevrolet, their biggest client ever.
I don't like the merger. I was hoping they'd be successful on their own. They just bought an upstairs. Joan just fucked some hut to be partner. Now they're moving, changing names, adding people?
Right, but Roger has a bad heart. Perhaps he dies in the arms of his perky young stewardess.
[quote]When are they going to get rid of the actress who plays Megan? Her acting is painfully bad
She can certainly work that Barbara Feldon Swinging Sixties look, though.
They had to get Don and Peggy back together again.
Maybe I'm the only one who thinks Megan is gorgeous..?
Megan is gorgeous. And I like the character. But the actress is very one dimensional.
I find her beautiful too, but her teeth are distracting, I have to admit.
[quote]Is the merger the first step in killing off Roger and Bert?
I don't know why Bert came along when they formed SCDP. The show almost never does anything with his character and that was the perfect opportunity to write him out.
Megan is beautiful but her acting makes Betty seem like Meryl Streep.
Jessica Pare looks like Eleanor Roosevelt if she was hot. There. I said it.
Regarding that elevator scene, was it realistic that young girls would be drooling over a soap actress? In 1967, young women didn't really watch soaps and certainly wouldn't have gone gaga over a soap actress. Soaps didn't capture young females til the early 70s when AMC and Y&R exploded on college campuses.
As for the merger, it was very predictable and totally contrived. I thought better than Weiner, but I guess he couldn't have Peggy isolated all season with Ted and Abe. Have Hamm and January Jones shared any scenes yet?
R167, I'm sure they didn't watch soaps but were aware that Megan was an actress on TV that lived in their building. That to them is enough.
It just occurred to me another reason why I enjoyed this episode so much more than any other episode this season.
Harry Crane was totally absent.
Can that character be written out soon? I always liked Paul Kinsey better than him anyway.
Dark Shadows was on in 1968 and if there wasn't school that day then we were watching it. We were aware of the other soaps that were on around that time even if we didn't watch them much. There just really wasn't that much on tv at the time compared to now.
R161 Bert came on because he had nothing better to do.
Don't you remember Don bitching that he didn't want 2nd banana companies?
He didn't want Mohawk, he wanted American. He doesn't want Jaguar, he wants GM (or one of its brands). Plus Don has always been furious that pig demanded Joan as a bribe.
I still want Joan and Roger together. Joan can inherit a nice chunk of his fortune as she so richly deserves.
[quote]They just bought an upstairs...Now they're moving
SCDP is staying where they are. It's the other guys who are moving in.
R172 - Don wanted Mohwak. It was Duck who forced SC to give up Mohwak in pursuit of AA.
I don't get the criticism of Elizabeth Hendrickson's performance in this episode. Actually I think the criticism is nitpicky and just downright stupid. I thought she was brilliant in the conference room scene. With few words and mostly body language, she was able to convey the hurt and betrayal she felt for Don losing the Jaguar account especially considering what she did to for the company to land that account in the first place. It was one of Elizabeth's best scenes in the whole series.
R175 - Christina Hendricks.
I thought her performance was quite good. I loved the part of her telling Din that she's waiting for him to use the word "we".
Her name is not Elizabeth, r175.
Peggy's exchange with Abe about the junkie who poops on the stairs in their apartment building sounded like an anecdote someone would post on DL.
My bad! I meant Christina. It's not the first time I made that mistake. I was thinking of Elizabeth Moss who plays Peggy.
Christina was very good in this episode.
[quote]I don't get the criticism of Elizabeth Hendrickson's performance in this episode.
I don't either. People are much too rough on her, as well as on Christina Mossman and February Jonas.
I wonder how the fellow partners feel about Joan sleeping with that guy. Do they considerate it just business, do the feel bad for Joan, do they think she's a whore, do they respect her for taking one for thr team?I would feel dirty for doing what she did and all of them knowing I did it.
You people bitching about the episode are fucking idiots. Alan Sepinwall --THE authority on "Mad Men" -- has already said this was not only the best episode of the season, but the BEST OF THE ENTIRE SERIES. Whine, bitch and moan ALL YOU WANT, and argue "X episode was sooooo much better on every level!!" but accept that the definitive expert has spoken, and if you disagree with him it's kinda like disagreeing with Einstein on the theory of relativity: you will inevitably look like a clueless idiot.
The writing, acting and pacing for this ep were *spot* on - literally never a dull moment, and more remarkably, never a confusing moment, even given the five or six major plot strands going on simultaneously. Hendricks reaction to Don quitting Jaguar was fucking PRICELESS, not to mention Emmy-caliber; not only did she fuck that obese old troll for nothing, she ALSO thought she'd just lost out on a MILLION-DOLLAR stock payday. Do you realize how much money that was 45 years ago??? I also liked the fact that quitting Jaguar actually made Don feel *alive* for the first time this season, inspiring him to impetuously shag Megan not once but twice within a short window.
Finally, for everyone who's complained the show is in a rut - well, guess what? The merged agencies bring along with it all manner of interesting conflict: Don & Ted fighting for top-dog creative director, Roger's resurgent account-man tactics surpassing Pete's (and winning them GM in the end, albeit with Don & Ted's creative), the undoubtedly lingering distrust between Peggy & Stan, the questions of who will and won't get an ownership stake in the combined agency -- *particularly* given the likelihood of it going public and making millionaires out of even a relatively small stakeholder like Joan. And, finally, what will it be called? Agency names became famously unwieldy starting around then as mergers became commonplace, and oftentimes older founding partners of a merged agency found their names reduced to initials (e.g. DDB Needham). I'm liking SCC Draper Cutler, personally (unless Pete raises a huge stink about exclusion yet again, so maybe SCCC Draper Cutler or SCC Draper Cutler Campbell).
Btw as already noted, the Vegas was designed to be GM's first truly compact car, but turned out to be one of the biggest automotive disasters of the past 40 years, with too many major mechanical failures to even count. The car isn't introduced until 1970, and Matt Weiner is on record saying the show will never make it past the end of '69, so I don't think we'll see a full conclusion to that tale.
Alan's full review is below.
[quote]You people bitching about the episode are fucking idiots. Alan Sepinwall --THE authority on "Mad Men" -- has already said this was not only the best episode of the season, but the BEST OF THE ENTIRE SERIES.
I liked this episode quite a bit, but that's because of its own merits. I don't remember voting some hack critic in New Jersey as arbiter of my taste or opinions.
p.s.--dial it down a notch, honey; right now you sound a little nutso.
[quote]I wonder how the fellow partners feel about Joan sleeping with that guy. Do they considerate it just business, do the feel bad for Joan, do they think she's a whore, do they respect her for taking one for thr team?I
We covered this last season. Don was disappointed, but since he's the biggest whore of them all, he has no right to complain. Bert, Roger and Pete thought she did what had to be done, and none would ever *dare* consider a "whore." Harry's the only one truly made about it (well, except Joan now that Jag is gone), but that's only sour grapes because it resulted in her getting the share of the agency he's been desperately craving for several seasons.
R183 - Harry doesn't know about why Joan is a partner.
Don was upset.
Lane was upset, but saw a way for Joan to get something substantial out of it.
Pete was a pimp.
Faves of the show for me: Christina Hendricks, Jon Hamm, January Jones & the new husband (he's growing on me).
2nd bananas growing on me: Peggy & Pete
Meghan - she's ok beautiful at times but Don doesn't need that kind of a wife. I think I'm the only one here that loves Betty.
Harry knows how she became a partner. Just because we didn't see him learning it, doesn't mean he lacks that knowledge. Lots of time passes on this show with the characters gaining additional knowledge even when we don't see it. And it was clear from his tantrum earlier in the season that he knows. And it's obvious that everyone in the office, even those who did not know before the fight in the conference room, probably now knows how Joan became partner and had suspicions confirmed by Joan shouting that what she did was for nothing when Jaguar was dropped.
As for whether the other guys see her as a whore... yes and no. I think all of the guys pretty much do see her as a whore after this, but it's just with the exception of Don, they don't judge her for it. Because they all see themselves as whores themselves and enjoy patronizing whores and have used whores to entertain clients in the past. Don's the one who has issues because he's a huge selfish hypocrite.
Now the really interesting stuff will begin when the partners from the old agency and Peggy show up and are wondering why the fuck Joan is a partner.
I'm guessing Harry Hamlin will treat Joan like a prostitute and Roger won't like it. Also, Peggy will probably be pissed that Joan is a partner and she's not.
"Don's the one who has issues because he's a huge selfish hypocrite."
Or--or--stay with me here: he was abused by a woman who called him "the whore child" and then was left alone with her and his brother when the same woman actually became a whore. Hunh? Hunh?
But yeah, sure, "hypocrite" really covers all of that I'm sure.
Don's mother being a whore has nothing to do with and does not excuse his hypocrisy when it comes to him screwing everything in sight without a care for the consequences for how his sexual urges affect others yet still sitting on his high horse to judge what is right or wrong when it comes to other people having sex.
I don't know that Don has judged Joan too much for sleeping with herb.
He did judge Sal very hypocritically a few seasons ago for being gay and suggested gay men are too promiscuous ("You people..."), when it seemed as if Sal until then had actually not been very promiscuous but deeply repressed.
Of course Don is a hypocrite. You know you are watching a character drama, no? He is a FLAWED MAN. His flaws are authentic and speak to our own flaws. They have resonance -- unless you deny the darkness inside yourself and only sympathize with simple, flawless victims. Walter White is also a drug dealer. Cluck that tongue, girls!
Actually, he judged Sal because he refused to sleep with the tobacco company heir. So, yes, he told Joan she shouldn't do it with the Jaguar guy, but got Sal fired because he wouldn't sleep with the client. It would be kind to think Don had learned from the mistake he made with Sal, but I'm guessing, true to character and the time, Don couldn't fathom why a sexually active gay man would have any moral objections to anything.
As for r189, Don's mother and step-mother being a whore have EVERYTHING to do with how he conducts himself with women now. Does it "excuse" him? I had no idea he needed an excuse. But apparently you gave the other characters an "excuse" for their involvement with prostitution: They're not hypocrites. Really? Pete Campbell isn't a hypocrite? Roger isn't a hypocrite? Joan who married Dr. Rapist isn't a hypocrite?
Nobody's noble here. This isn't Game of Thrones.
R189 Don didn't like being thought of as a sexual object back when that woman (Bobbie, the comedian's wife?) told him she wanted the "Don Draper treatment". Whore's child indeed.
Also...Megan's mother would figure out that Don s fucking the neighbor if she saw them together and she would totally tell everyone.
R193 She would definitely tell Megan. She wouldn't tell Roger because she is not speaking to him.
Ok maybe I am clueless, but what role does Harry Hamlin play?
Don and Ted are definitely going to butt heads. For one, Ted thinks he's much better than Don at what he does. Second, Ted, with his turtlenecks and attitude, seems more intune with what's going on around them. Note how in the preview for next week, he wants a "rap" session. I think CDC was a hipper agency. Look at how Peggy's secretary dresses as compared to how dowdy Dawn looks. It'll be an interesting clash.
Any chance Sal is working for Ted? That would be a nice surprise.
R121, Ted's art director has cancer, so maybe the new firm will need to make a new hire . . . perhaps opening the door for the return of Sal? Weiner did say at the beginning of the season that a former employee would return to Sterling Cooper -- though perhaps that refers to Peggy, who has returned because of the merger.
Also, hasn't Weiner said in interviews that Sal is not ever coming back?
Am I the only one here becoming a little bored with this show?
I still love it and following it, but it just seems to be more of the same and Don is just irritating these days. I'd like to see more goings on in the advertising world.
I think what happened during the last episode could return us there and perhaps usher in a period of less Don, more SCDP and its cast of characters.
I liked the scene where Betty put her elegant, 10 size smaller dress up against her currently hefty body. Henry's run will no doubt bring back the classic, gorgeous, bitchy Betty and I'm looking forward to that!
I don't see why the door to Sal ever returning would be closed. The ad business in NYC is relatively small so it should be very possible for an episode to catch up on his life.
It's going to be interesting to see Stan and Peggy together again. The last scene we saw them together was when Stan gave her the finger as he walked by her on his way out of that bar.
I really liked this episode too. There are lot of memorable scenes.
A pretty good episode, but yes the show is becoming a little dull. The pacing is slow and the energy is too low. We need more stark drama to liven things up. How about killing off Megan AND her mother? Pete's outburst on the staircase was fun...more please, but involving other characters as well
I liked the episode with some reservations. It did move along and hold my interest but some of the plot elements felt a bit contrived (the merger, Pete running into his father-in-law). And am I the only one who has a soft spot for Pete? Can he please catch a break? It's like he's the anti-Don. We get it already. Don gets away with everything and poor Pete always gets busted.
Did anyone notice that Ted was trying to watch "Hazel"? First, it wouldn't have been on late at night. Second, it's the mark of loserdom for an adult male to be watching that.
More work stuff. I'm hoping this merger will put an end to the boring home lives scenes. Add me to the ones piling on to Megan. Her interminable screen times makes me long for a Betty scene.
[quote]Ok maybe I am clueless, but what role does Harry Hamlin play?
He's the chief Account Exec at their firm - kind of equiv. to Roger.
Is it me or will Harry Hamlin fuck Joan? They would be so hot together.....
Hamlin is not listed on IMDB as of yet. I know who the character is but I don't remember his name. Is he the Cutler of Cutler D---- Chough?
Only boring and dull people find Man Men to be a boring and dull show.
Harry Hamlin is indeed the Cutler of Cutler Gleason Chaough. Gleason is the one who revealed he is dying of pancreatic cancer, so my guess is that Cutler and Chaough will be the only major partners who join SCDP. They may well rename the firm Sterling Cooper Draper Cutler & Chaough since Price is dead and Gleason is on his way out. I could even see Don dropping his name out (but remaining a senior partner) because of his constant wish to hide, so that the firm is Sterling, Cooper, Cutler, Chaough: SCCC.
RE: Joan's body language.
Her body speaks several languages - fluently.
The flyover idiots who post here apparently like their characters drawn broadly. I don't mind the shades of gray.
[quote]My bad! I meant Christina. It's not the first time I made that mistake. I was thinking of Elizabeth Moss who plays Peggy.
And, apparently, of Big Love.
For the record: There is no "D" in Henrickson.
[quote]2nd bananas growing on me: Peggy & Pete
They are not second bananas. They, together with Don and Roger, are the central characters of the series. Betty is now a second banana.
Don didn't fire Sal because he didn't sleep with the client. He fired Sal because the client demanded it.
[quote]Nobody's noble here. This isn't Game of Thrones.
Nobody's noble there, either.
[quote]Did anyone notice that Ted was trying to watch "Hazel"? First, it wouldn't have been on late at night. Second, it's the mark of loserdom for an adult male to be watching that.
He might have had an ad running on it.
I'm not sure how much significance that bird-flipping really deserves, R201. Stan knows its just business, and in a way he's treating Peggy as an equal ("one of the guys") by being crude and dismissive like that. That's how dudes are with each other, and Stan is just carrying that over to his dude-like rapport with Peggy.
I doubt he's carrying a grudge. On the other hand, who knows what Wiener is planning. But I think it would be dumb to make the Heinz pitch(es) a point of contention between Peggy and Stan, especially post-merger and considering they both lost out anyway. So much was spent developing Peggy and Stan's unusual friendship that I'd hate for it to all be a setup for a falling out over something so small and inconsequential.
I think Christina has passed zaftig and is now just a big fat, fattie.
I forget what R# it was but to whomever complained about Don only really coming alive at work - that's the whole point of Don Draper. He's emotionally crippled and incapable of connecting with other people, although he has a keen understanding of human nature. He's shocked to find that he loves his son but ignites for Chevrolet.
Peggy is supposedly leaving after this season. With any luck, she and Megan will discover their lesbian love and run away together.
Marie can stay.
Where did you hear that Peggy is leaving, R220?
R220 won't answer.
Maybe they'll skip Bobby Kennedy's murder altogether since they know we're all expecting it and will dedicate an entire episode to Andy Warhol being shot by Valerie Solanas.
R214 - Roger is not a main character.
[quote]But I think it would be dumb to make the Heinz pitch(es) a point of contention between Peggy and Stan, especially post-merger and considering they both lost out anyway.
Peggy won Heinz.
Peggy did not win Heinz. J Walter Thompson won Heinz.
r224, I beg to differ. Going all the way back to season 1, Roger is indeed a major character. Technically he’s a supporting rather than lead character but he’s as important as Don, Peggy, Joan, and Pete. If something serious was to happen to Roger, it would be big news.
I can't believe how many people didn't get that Heinz plot point. It wasn't subtext; they came right out and said that the Thompson behemoth swooped in for it and left the smaller agencies to fight over scraps. Are you people watching with the sound on, or is Mad Men moving wall art for you?
Roger is the only character with a sense of humor. They better not write him off.
R227 - Roger is supporting, not major. I love watching John Slattery, but the character is not essential for the plot. Of late, he has been more useful, but he's not major.
Don, Peggy, Pete, Megan, and sometimes Betty are now the major characters. Joan's next, Roger is later.
I think Pegs and Stan should do more creative work in their underwear.
I love you, R228.
He's a main character given the amount of time dedicated to his personal life.
The blowout scene was fine, you're all overreacting. What didn't work was the convenience of the timing - how on earth would Don not know about a potential public offering WAY before this point. That combined with him throwing away Jaguar and the potential Chevy deal was just absurd when crammed into one episode.
The acting was fine.
I agree r234.
It would be one thing if this show was paced like "Scandal" every week and then all the stuff of the last episode wouldn't be so jarring.
But it didn't really make much sense that we saw so much happen in that one hour on Sunday after we wasted all that time on bullshit earlier this season, like that day player runaway story in the season opener.
It seemed to me like Weiner didn't really know where he wanted the season to go when they started filming it and apparently it occurred to him that the first few episodes were going to be shit and this episode script was his attempt at a reset.
[quote]bad though charismatic actors who were elevated by the writing and direction. Christina Hendricks is Mad Men's Drea DeMateo. The real treat is seeing the great character actors who guest star.
DeMateo and Hendricks are great. Sometimes I wonder why I come here, the level of bold, proud stupidity is so high.
Hendricks has been good outside of Mad Men. Drive, for example.
I think it's Pete who may be out.
[quote]It seemed to me like Weiner didn't really know where he wanted the season to go when they started filming it and apparently it occurred to him that the first few episodes were going to be shit and this episode script was his attempt at a reset.
You know what?
I am going to disagree.
I am going to say that Matt Weiner, the guy who wrote for the Sopranos for a decade, and who has nine primetime Emmys (seven of them for Mad Men), knows where he wanted the season to go. Yeah, I am going to venture that he had a hunch about what he wanted to do, and got to do it. I don't think he was winging it. Yeah. I think he had his head wrapped around the labor of his entire life a little more than you do. Maybe you don't like what he wrote, but I think you have absolutely no fucking idea what he intended or why he did anything he did.
[quote]I'm not sure how much significance that bird-flipping really deserves ...
I don't know either r218 that's why I am interested to see what happens.
r239 why so sensitive?!?!
And what does his success with the Sopranos or all the critics blowing him in the past have to do with anything?
There is such a thing as writer's block you know. And tv writing is a collaborative thing. And Weiner's writing team totally wasted the first couple episodes of this season and crammed a ton of shit into this one somewhat unnecessarily and disjointed from the prior episodes.
Yes, Pete is in trouble. Everything he has touched lately has turned to shit...all the way back to Joan and Jaguar
I'd be surprised if Pete left. Peggy is not leaving.
Analyzing the themes and structure of MM as a whole, one can obviously argue it has one protagonist (Don) in the center while all the others are satellites orbiting him, gaining more importance the closer they get to him (Betty in earlier seasons, Megan in later ones) or becoming more peripheral if not so. Another way to see it is that it’s an ensemble piece, having many character of different, and often changing, stature. This take suits the notion that MM strength, or rather appeal, is really about its panoramic storytelling and meticulous and ravishing detailing (or, in other words, calling it a glamorized Soap).
A more complex take (and the billing of the actors suggest it might have been an initial intent of the show) is that it’s about a trinity of protagonists, Don/Peggy/Pete, and it’s for us to decide who’s the father, who’s the son and who’s the holy spirit in any given moment. (Having these three as some kind of one “deity” corresponds with the recurrent theme of Peggy/Pete morphing into a new incarnation of the old Don. And at the heart of the show, the middle episode of the entire run of it (the 46th of the planed 91) was The Suitcase which was all about Don and Peggy becoming one, while Pete is often the Antichrist, not to mention the one responsible for Peggy’s immaculate conception, but I’m carried away). Anyway, the interactions and the shifting balance between them is really the core of what the show has to say about social structure, cultural conceptions and human nature. In this scenario, all other characters, while many indeed are extremely important and as fascinating (and at least as well liked) as these three, are, thematically, supporting.
Poor Peggy. Once again in Don's shadow and having to manage Ginsburg, who is actually far more talented than she.
I think originally it was Don/Peggy/Pete. Roger was initially a "guest star" role. But he developed into a fourth center.
Feeling quite precious about ourselves and our opinions, aren't we r239?
R244 - The Suitcase is the best one so far.
P.S. It's Mad Men, not Mad Man.
Has ginsberg shown more talent? Refresh my memory.
Bob is Don's son. The reveal will be epic.
R246 - Roger developed into a character, but he!'s not above Betty and then Megan OR Joan.
Yes, it will be revealed that Bob is secretly Don's son. What will happen is that little baby gene will be kidnapped. Don and Betty will be broadcast live on the Huntley/Brinkley Report to make a plea for the kidnappers, and Betty will suddenly snatch the microphone away from Chet Huntley, and start sobbing hysterically into it that this has all happened before years ago, when their first child was stolen from them by kidnappers and never returned. Meanwhile, while visiting his "parents" in Montana, Bob will be watching TV and see it all happen, and it will slowly dawn on him that his "mother" and "father" aren't who he thought they were... that he is really Don and Betty Draper's long-lost son!
Then he will be accepted into the Draper family, but feel like he never belongs. And he'll try to do away with Pete by re-doing his office with poison paint, and then he'll rape Peggy (but she'll blame herself and not him).
Joan is a good case. She has evolved into a very prominent part of the show, but when she was out of Don/Peggy/Pete universe after she left Sterling Cooper in season 3 and before she was called back when SCDP was formed, she vanished completely, apart from a random meeting with one of the three protagonists (Pete, running into her in the department store she was working in). Actually, Peggy is the only one the show regularly followed once she stepped out of this universe, or rather this universe was expended in order to accommodate her in it, since she is an essential part of its core. And Roger, invaluable as he is to the show, was very much defined as a kind of Don’s sidekick and later, more and more, as one whose professional engine is his hatred toward Pete.
Don is the main character. All the others are his human satellites. Matt Weiner has confirmed this.
Nobody doubts Don is the main character, but only an idiot would say everyone else is on the same level.
After Don, it's Peggy, then Pete, then either Betty or Megan, then Joan.
Interesting theory, PPT. But maybe you're over thinking things a bit.
Anyway, loved this episode. Finally! Love the idea of the merger, Peggy and Don back together. I agree, Hendricks didn't do a great job. It wasn't horrible. It just felt slightly off. Not because of why she was angry, I get that and I buy that, but her delivery was a little college sophomore at Oberlin.
All this conjecture is well and good but what I really want to know is will Betty ever be trim and blonde again? She might be emotionally stunted, immature and a bad mother but she was always well put together. Brunette Betty is a frump and just doesn't cut it.
Joan's outrage at Don was misplaced. He went to her apartment to tell her not to do it but it was after the fact. She should be blaming Pete and those who thought she should do it.
Also, after the "sleepover" and the partners were assembled for a meeting, many of us stated that Don would never know if it was his pitch or Joan's "talents" that won them the account. I guess we all know the answer now, as does Joan, if Herb was mad enough to accept being dropped from SCDP. Remember how she insulted Herb about not seeing his dick (or feet), can't remember which. She felt empowered and like "one of the guys" being able to say something like that to him.
She did it all for nothing and now everyone knows how she made partner.
Mad Men Lover
I recently spoke to a hetty spermcatcher and she claimed she liked Joan. I pointed out that she spread her legs to make partner it wasn't by merit.This same woman thought that Draper and Pete were scumbags just because they were fucking around and acting like dogs BUT Joan could act like a slut and that was OK!
The difference between Pete and Don....Don is a lovable scumbag and Pete is just a scumbag. Pete comes across as a whiny,entitled little cunt. He can't even pull off fucking around on his wife properly for that matter!
[quote]Don is a lovable scumbag and Pete is just a scumbag. Pete comes across as a whiny,entitled little cunt.
That has always been my problem with Pete. I can see women wanting to fuck Don, but Pete as someone women would willingly fuck? Be serious.
Raping the maid and visiting the whorehouse, sure, but the idea that the woman across the street would risk her marriage over him is a joke.
[quote] I pointed out that she spread her legs to make partner it wasn't by merit.
Oh I think Joan had earned partner by merit, she'd worked her ass off and practically ran the company, if you remember correctly. It's just that none of the men were willing to acknowledge that fact until she forced their hand by agreeing to sleeping with Herb.
Don't you think the whole situation was a statement of the inequity at SCDP?
Joan may be upset now, but her actions to help win the Jaguar account were extremely valuable to the agency.
If the agency didn’t already have a car account like Jaguar, they would have never been in consideration for the new Chevy account.
Excuse me, but -
98% of these Mad Men threads have become insufferably infested by two or three tiresome, television-addicted shut-ins who fancy themselves armchair critics and who just KNOW they're 'sophisticated' writers. They've also hijacked the threads by talking to themselves all day, non-stop.
Hey cunts? It's a TELEVISION SHOW, nothing more, nothing less. Let people who want to bitch about it, bitch about it. Let people express their own interpretations on who the central protagonist is, etc. etc. You're not writing the show, you have no "inside" line on what the producers/directors are trying to project, got it?
You two or three weirdos aren't as clever as you think you're coming across as and only proving to the rest of us that Datalounge is crawling with a tiny but irritatingly vocal group of home-bound losers.
Get out, breath some fresh air, take the pills your doctors give you and do something more with your unemployment and Social Security checks than paying for DL subscriptions and Sam's sized bags of salty-sweet snacks.
R266 Joan has a dark side. Her imperiousness/control freak side came out when she found out about the punch clock controversy. She was a complete cunt about it. Someone who fucked one of the bosses(one of their sexual escapades was on the street in NYC if I remember correctly) and was made partner by sleeping with a fugly client casts judgment on an early punch out? Joan was a bit much.
Joan ran things very smoothly BUT don't think that fucking Roger didn't help her out. Or that fucking fugly Herb didn't make her partner. Peggy got where she was by her good works and Joan got there with the combination of her being penetrated by people in power( I would have said lying on her back BUT Roger fucked her on the street!) who could advance her career and her power trip personality. Oh and it was so sweet when Harry called her for using her cunt to advance herself when he was left behind.
Oh please notice me! I just trolled because I want so desperately for someone to pay attention to me!
r266 you couldn't be more wrong. I just clicked on trolldar on this thread & every single post is by a different person.
Sorry meant r268 not r266 - every single post on THIS PAGE is by a different person via trolldar.
r268 takes the Datalounge Retard Prize for the day.
agree with r269 and I like Joan. But her character is terribly flawed.
Plus, not acknowledging the real dad of Kevin is really low.
Roger already knows he's the real dad, remember? In last season he said he'd pay for the kid's schooling. So he knows.
I nominate R268 for the Pathetic Post Hall of Fame.
Marry me r268!
I know the girl who posted as r268. But she didn't die.
Many of you fail to fully appreciate the work place of the 60's. There was more than a glass ceiling. There was sexual harassment and a lot of other obstacles facing women, especially single women.
Men said offensive things and patronized and condescended and believe me they had no problem asking women to do all kinds of demeaning things.
Joan's generation had to put up with a lot of crap to get ahead. She was angry with Don, because she'd made her peace with what she had to do, and he, knight in tarnished armor, just threw a hand grenade into her skull.
r279 give it up. Joan is a hypocritical bitch. You people who refuse to acknowledge it are beyond tiresome.
I don't remember where I heard that Peggy was leaving after this season, R222, but I've googled it and I think I heard wrong. There's nothing on the interwebs about it and there would be if it were actually happening.
Couldn't find anything on Netflix so I started rewatching the first season.
The first episode definitely foreshadowed some things with Don warning Pete that his treatment of women will wind up leading to him not running the agency even if he gets Don's job and he'll wind up bald and alone in a corner office of middle management where women only go home with him out of pity.
Also has Peggy getting warned that if she's an easy girl she'll never get married even though Joan can get away with it.
Pete's established as an ass from episode 1.
Yes I know he's established as an ass in episode 1.
But what I had forgot was that he's established as an ultimately failure at climbing the corporate ladder in advertising and balding.
Oh and something else about episode 1. It's definitely not Trudy in the picture frame in the pilot.
R284 - They hated cast Alison Brie yet.
hadn't, not hated
r279 is right.
r279 - You sound like you're fishing for claps on TWoP. Hand grenade, Mary?
Most of us would probably hate Joan if we actually worked with her, she treats most underlings like shit.
R289 - Who at SC(DP) treats underlinings well?
How old is Joan supposed to be on MM? Anyone know?
Her birthday was February something 1931. Paul stole her driver's license, copied, and then posted it way back in season 2.
I've known office managers like Joan. She's really not a bad one. Where I worked, back in the day, there was a secretarial pool and there were bosses similar to this SCDP configuration, and the office manager had to juggle a lot of competing interests.
The girls in the secretarial pool were always squabbling about who was overworked, they always fudged their time and others sign out for them when they could get away with it, they always vied for the next opening to work for an exec or get out of the pool.
Then there was the hierarchy of execs and which secretary worked for the one who had the most clout, or the easiest job, or the most perks. It was also not uncommon for an exec to ask for a particular secretary, or for an exec to intervene in a disciplinary problem and screw up everything.
Our Office Manager was a vengeful woman. When an exec interfered with her dealings with the secretaries, he paid for it later on down the line. The other thing to consider, is that, in the workplace back then, women weren't accustomed to being in a supervisory role.
Joan is a very compent office manager, but she does have a vengeful side. Her delegating time sheet duty to Dawn was a good move, as she is more than just office manager now.
Maybe Dawn will be the new office manager now?
I doubt Dawn would be the new office manager. Not in 1968. More likely, it would the office manager from Ted's old firm.
I'd like them to bring in Gretchen Mol as a new office manager and have her be Don's final love interest. Mol's role on Boardwalk Empire will apparently draw to a close next season.
[quote]Who at SC(DP) treats underlings well?
Bert Cooper always does. He's very courtly and polite to them.
R300 - Bert fired a secretary for chewing gum in season 2.
[quote]I'd like them to bring in Gretchen Mol as a new office manager and have her be Don's final love interest. Mol's role on Boardwalk Empire will apparently draw to a close next season.
Even better, bring on Paz De le Huerta!