Tywin Lannister makes strategic plans with allies.
Melisandre makes her way to the Riverlands.
Robb Stark makes offers to Walder Frey to mend fences.
Roose Bolton makes a decision about Jaime Lannister.
Sansa makes an unhappy discovery about her wedding plans.
And Jon, Ygritte, and the Wildings make ready to scale the Wall.
Halfway through and nothing has happened--just tons of exposition.
Torture boy is hot.
STALEMATE between Olenna and Tywin! But Olenna sounds like she's got something up her sleeve even still.
Well, that was the single most evil thing Joffrey has ever done. And it showed how truly evil Littlefinger also really is.
The final shot of the countyside from the Wall looked like a background from a terrible Thomas Kinkade painting--I'm really surprised they couldn't afford a better special effect.
The scene with Loras describing the wedding an the dress was very funny.
Well if nothing else, the fans can stop complaining about Ros now.
Lady Olenna, commenting on her grandson being gay: "Oh, a swordswallower through and through."
This episode was hard to follow. Some questions:
Did Joffrey kill Roz with that crossbow thingy? Why? What did that have to do with Littlefinger?
Why did Melissandre take Gendry? Does he have Stannis' blood?
I know they are trying to cram a lot into an hour but sometimes the scenes just don't make sense. True, some people have read the books but if you haven't, the whole thing gets really confusing.
R7, She was Little Fingers' whore who rose to personal assistant. She secretly met with Lord Varys and showed him the ship's manifest. There was not just one feather bed per usual, as that would be Petyr's bed, but a second one as well. With this bit of knowledge Varys knows that Little Finger intends on liberating Sansa from King's Landing. This planned escape is something Little Finger did not want anyone to know about. There was only one way the info could get to Varys ears, and that was by Roz's mouth.
Stannis is the broom stick up his ass, I-never-would-have-a-bastard, religiously repressed brother. His youngest brother, Renly, wouldn't be capable of producing a bastard as his fondness is strictly for men's genitalia. You have to have guessed by now: Gendry was one of King Robert's many bastards.
[quote]Did Joffrey kill Roz with that crossbow thingy?
He's a psychopath and a sexual sadist, and he wanted to try out his new crossbow we saw him get a few episodes back.
[quote]What did that have to do with Littlefinger?
He asked Littlefinger for one of the whores in his brothel to try the crossbow out on, and Littlefinger gave him Ros because he knew Ros had betrayed his plans to Lord Varys and wanted revenge.
[quote]Why did Melissandre take Gendry?
A few episodes back, Stannis wanted her to give birth to another shadow demon to assassinate enemies, and she said he was too spent after their last coupling to help her make a new one, so she needed the blood from the king's line to help her do it. So she wants Gendry, because he is from the line of the Baratheons,
[quote]Does he have Stannis' blood?
Gendry is Robert's bastard so he is Stannis's illegitimate nephew.
I'm just gonna say SPOILERS
In case I say something someone wouldn't want to know in answer to r7.
Yes Joffrey killed Roz with the crossbow. There was a scene between Joff and Margery where he shows Margery the crossbow and tells her that he was excited to try it out on something living. He killed Roz because he's a sick sadistic fuck. Littlefinger gave Roz to Joffrey to take target practice on as revenge because Roz told some of Littlefinger's secrets to Varis. One secret being that Littlefinger planned on stealing Sansa away with him on his ship when he left for the Erie.
Not sure why Melisandre took Gendry but Gendry is one of the dead King Robert's illegitimate children. That would make him Stannis's nephew.
Masterly scene between Charles Dance and Diana Rigg. On the "Inside the Episode" extra on the HBO website, the producers said it was like a sword battle between two master swordsmen but fought with words instead of mettle, and I think that's pretty accurate. I love how Olenna casually deployed the information about the rumors about Jaime and Cersei (her trump card), and also how she dug at him asking if he had ever fucked another boy when young.
Thanks. I never would have gotten all that.
They should have at least had a scene where Littlefinger gives Roz to Joffrey so the viewer has a clue.
I'm bummed about Gendry. The hottest guy on the show's going to end up some black smoke coming out of Melissandre's cooter.
[quote]I'm bummed about Gendry. The hottest guy on the show's going to end up some black smoke coming out of Melissandre's cooter.
Wait and be patient. Nothing's over for anyone on this show until it's over (and even then, as we saw last episode with Beric Dondarrion after he was killed by the Hound, it's [italic]still[/italic] not over).
Joffrey has crossed the line from a sadistic boy-king to an out and out murderer. Quite shocking, actually.
Theon and "The Boy". Wow. That's all I have to say. That and "The Boy" has beautiful and haunting eyes.
I loved Jon in the books. On the show I have an odd nonchalance about this character. I just don't seem to care about him much. I don't know if it's the actor or the writing but I feel like I know nothing about this guy's motivation or anything about his personality. Disappointing, really.
The scene between Tywin and Olenna was magnificent. They were totally sparring with each other. So much was said but not spoken in that scene.
Poor Sansa. It seems like she's destined to be shat upon for the rest of her life.
R2, you need to watch "Misfits" on BBC (or BBC America)...
I agree with the comment about Jon Snow. He's one of my favorite characters in the books and in the show he is really quite drab. Speaking of, the show is deviating from the books in very interesting ways. Love the foreshadowing about Arya's future from Melisandre.
[quote]The scene between Tywin and Olenna was magnificent.
The whole episode was magnificent. Again.
[quote]Poor Sansa. It seems like she's destined to be shat upon for the rest of her life
I just want to be clear about this... when Tyrion came to her room to tell her, he was telling her that she was going to marry HIM instead of going away on the ship? Which explains why she was crying, looking out as the ship sailed away?
[quote]They should have at least had a scene where Littlefinger gives Roz to Joffrey so the viewer has a clue.
Littlefinger told Varys he knew who his spy was, and that he'd given her to a "client" who wanted to try something new. Then we saw Joffrey with Ros's corpse. Seemed pretty clear to me.
The ship hasn't sailed away -- she's looking at it thinking "That's my only chance to get away from here."
[quote]Which explains why she was crying, looking out as the ship sailed away?
I didn't get that either. I thought she might be looking at Loras sailing away, but according to the HBO site she was looking at Littlefinger's ship sailing away to the Vale to marry Lysa Arryn. Why should she be crying at the sight of that? She didn't want to marry Littlefinger.
She was crying because she was told that her dream wedding was not going to happen and she had already told Littlefinger no, so she missed out on another chance to get out of King's Landing. Plus, given how shallow she is, she can't be too thrilled about having to marry Tyrion.
No, but she was supposed to be on that ship, R22 (I remember that much from previous episodes, I think... do I have that wrong?)
I just lost that thread somewhere...
Was the ship actually leaving?
I really wish I hadn't seen that ginger being skinned. . . UGGGH! Can't get that image ou of my head nowl.
The Boy should give Theon a savage fucking. That'll show him who's boss.
"The Boy" is a cast member on Vicious, the new brit sitcom with Sir Ian McKellen and Sir Derek Jacobi. He plays the straight upstairs neighbor that they both fancy. Honestly, he creeps me out. He looks like a crazed Hobbit. Even though I hate Theon I couldn't watch the torture scenes.
The cat and mouse scene between Littlefinger and Varys was chilling. The look of horror that passes over Varys' face when he realizes that Littlefinger knows Ros betrayed him and the fact that he "gave" her to Joffrey to satisfy some new (and unspeakable) perversion was priceless. It was all the more shocking because we don't know anymore than Varys does until their conversation. We learn more about Littlefinger and Joffrey in those last two scenes than the first two seasons combined. They ARE monsters. This season of the show is kicking ass.
I have a question and it involves SPOILERS:
In the books did Melisande come after Gendry? Did she really have a confrontation with Arya?I guess I want to know how much is the HBO version deviating from the books now?
No, everything with Melisandre in the episode was totally invented for the show.
In the book there is another bastard son of King Robert at Dragonstone for Melisandre to go after.
Thank you R31. I've become attached to Gendry, and even though he said he was staying with the brotherhood, I think in my mind I was hoping he and Arya would end up together. Not in a sexual way since she is too young, but that he would look out for her and care for her. She obviously is very attached to him. Melisande is probably going to harm Gendry. I just have a bad feeling about her and that young man. She wouldn't want any rivals or potential rivals to Stannis gaining power.
This season has contained mostly torture scenes that make me want to puke. I'd rather see the obnoxious sex scenes.
However,I thought the very end of the episode looked beautiful, I loved the music that went with it.
[quote]Was the ship actually leaving?
According to the HBO website, it was Littlefinger's ship leaving for the Vale so he can go to the Eyrie.
It was a harrowing episode to be sure.
Finger!!!! I meant FINGER not "ginger"!
Typo - My bad.
This season is the darkest one yet and it's only going to get more brutal as the episodes and seasons go by. The more I think about the more I realize that a story like this could only be shown on HBO.
I love the casting of the Boy and I love that they made him hot...not just because he's hot but because he's such a monster and it makes me uncomfortable that I'm attracted to him which is what I think the producers were going for. It adds another psychological aspect to it.
Joffrey has been pretty tame this season until now. Holy shit...what kind of freak did Cersei spawn? Is it the incest?
Remember, Cersei and Jaime have two other children, Tommen and Myrcella, who by even Tyrion's account are lovely, sweet, and kind. Only Joffrey is the monster.
The scene with Tyrion and Cersei mutually complaining was very nice--I also liked how Tyrion slowly figured out it was not Cersei but Joffrey who tried to have him killed.
I love a good Tyrion/Cersei awkward bonding moment.
Could someone who's read the books answer this question WITHOUT SPOILERS:
Are there many extended torture scenes involving Theon in the book? Is there any payoff to these scenes, or are they just gratuitous?
R43, I haven't read all the books just the first two, but all you have to do is look at Theon's situation and figure out that he is in for a rough ride. George R. R. Martin doesn't seem to "rescue" people.
All I can do is make a prediction that Theon will die soon and die ugly. If he's lucky. I look at Theon and Sansa as sort of the two who are going to get shit on with increasing regularity. Sansa is a character right out of De Sade novel, a perpetual victim, and Theon has no moral compass and can't make up his mind to either be good or bad.
He's weak and the weak get fucked in this story. At least that's my uninformed speculation.
In the books you really only get the aftermath of Theon's torture. And it's...startling.
Actually, the scene with Jon Snow and Ygritte on top of The Wall, was real, not fake scenery. They filmed in Iceland, and you would not believe the vistas from certain spots. I am not saying that Kit Harriington and his girlfriend were actually on top of a 700+ foot wall, but the director was using scenery that was real not fake CGI stuff.
On the matter of Littlefinger, yes that was the boat he was leaving on, and poor Sansa was actually crying for him. Her Plan A was to marry Loras. Littlefinger's boat, which she refused, was her last chance at escaping King's Landing. Now that she faces marriage to a dwarf, she's rethinking her decision. Poor Sansa. Never very lucky or very bright.
I see some holes in the story. If Tywin was worried about the Tyrells getting too powerful on their own, why is he not concerned for Littlefinger as well.
Does Tywin know Littlefinger was going to take Sansa with him? I remember Littlefinger's conversation with Sansa. Where he said he was putting somethings in motion and he'd be able to get her out of there.
Was he talking about the marriage? Because I thought the marriage to Jane Arryn was already decided. So why was he being secretive with Sansa. What would be the point of Littlefinger taking Sansa if he is going out there to marry that crazy Arryn woman?
If I were Oleanna Tyrell, I'd have let Loras be in the King's Guard and not marry Cersei. Ugh. At least Sansa will be protected from the Psychopath King Joffery if she marries Tyrion. Tyrion and Loras were her only safe choices, actually. Littlefinger and Joffery are monsters.
The more I come to know Varys, the more I like him. I don't want to feel comfortable with Varys. I would rather there be that little edge of doubt with him.
He's emerging as a shrewd operator and a decent person. At least for that milieu. When people start doing good deeds and are more open, they usually get fucked up in this story.
R43, put it this way - I started to skip the Theon chapters in the books because I can't handle torture. It's not the only torture in the books, either. Martin doesn't write them in a gratuitous or salicious way, but I still hated it and felt he went too far.
If you think Joffrey and Littlefinger are monsters, well ... there's way worse to come, if they're going to be true to the books.
[quote]If I were Oleanna Tyrell, I'd have let Loras be in the King's Guard and not marry Cersei.
She can't--he is (in the TV series) the last male Tyrell. According to their mindset, the family name must be continued at all costs, or their kingdom will revert to Joffrey (as Margaery's husband) when Margaery's and Loras's father dies.
Yeah. Theon's story line sort of reeks for the forseeable future.
Someone please remind me: why were Jon Snow, Ygritte and her tribesmen climbing that mountain? Is it to get JS back home? Are they some kind of scouting party? Are they looking to move from the ice wasteland?
I just can't remember. Thanks.
R48, Jaime was a member of the King's Guard yet Tywin insists he will produce heirs and inherit Casterly Rock, not Tyrion. Is this hypocracy what kept Olenna smiling?
What was with the Osha/Meera Reed scene? Book-readers, is there any purpose for the heavy-handed subtext there?
Spoiler alert!? Maybe.
[quote]What was with the Osha/Meera Reed scene? Book-readers, is there any purpose for the heavy-handed subtext there?
Their story line is a little different in the books. Osha and Meera are not traveling together in the books.
[quote]Finger!!!! I meant FINGER not "ginger"!
It made perfect sense the first time.
The scenes of torture were horrible, I was wondering if the show would skirt around showing it, no such luck. Hard to watch but keep your eye on Theon, his troubles have only begun. He will become important in a later story line.
I also skipped the Theon chapters but not because of the torture. I just don't like the character so once he got back to the Iron Islands and his father was fucking with him I opted out of his storyline. I got bored.
This might be somewhat of a spoiler.
Yes the violence/torture is over the top but at least as much as I read in the first four books, couldn't get my hands on DWD so I haven't read it yet, the central female characters don't get raped. At least that's something.
[quote]Are there many extended torture scenes involving Theon in the book? Is there any payoff to these scenes, or are they just gratuitous?
Theon's torture is never presented directly in the book--we hear about it long after it has happened (I think we only hear about it retrospectively in full in the fourth and fifth books, and this season is based on the third book).
The torture is done for no purpose other than the fact that the boy who is torturing him is a cruel sadist, probably the most evil person in all the books, even beyond Joffrey (the Mountain may be the only one who gives this boy a run for his money).
There is a pay-off for the torture in terms of the consequences to the characters involved in it, but that's all I can say.
R50, they were climbing The Wall, not "a mountain"...
Me too, r55:) I love that Arya always finds a surrogate big brother to teach her the skills she needs to stay alive. I haven't read the books so this is not a spoiler, but to address the question of how Milasandre plans on using Gendry, I would assume in the same way she used Stannis. She has to fuck to make the Demon and she needs to fuck a Baratheon. Whether Gendry is then burned alive as a sacrifice or kept around for further services I wouldn't hazard a guess. "All men must die" sums up what happens to them all sooner or later.
Who in the hell are those two kids travelling with Bran and the wildling? What happened to Bran's brother? He just ran off into the woods never to be seen again. I have no idea what's going on in the convoluted plots on this show anymore. I'm basically just watching for the eye candy.
[quote]Who in the hell are those two kids travelling with Bran and the wildling?
Jojen and Meera Reed. They had a pretty big introduction where they said they were kids of one of Ned's warfriends and how Jojen has seer abilities like Bran does and that he came to help Bran.
[quote] What happened to Bran's brother? He just ran off into the woods never to be seen again. [/quote]
He was literally in last nights episode hanging out with Bran and even had a few lines.
[quote]I have no idea what's going on in the convoluted plots on this show anymore.[/quote]
I get it this is a show with a large cast and number of plotlines, and some things can be confusing, but it is also a show (a la The Wire) where viewers are expected to pay attention when they watch. It isn't meant to just be background entertainment.
I'd also like to know why Jon was climbing the wall. Did they explain it somehwere and I just tuned out during the dull snow-people scenes? Are they just trying to get away from the White Walkers?
So does Jojen Reed have epilepsy or do the visions just give him fits? If so, can I volunteer to be his attendant?
This write-up will certainly help people understand more of what happened in this episode:
R61, you don't need to close the "quote" tag... unlike "italic" and "bold", it starts a quote block, and a blank line ends it (press enter twice).
The wildlings are climbing the Wall so they can attack and weaken Castle Black (the Night's Watch headquarters) from behind. The castle is only defendable from the Wall side. I don't remember how explicit they were about their orders on the show.
Of course in the book it was a much larger group, plus the end of the last episode made it appear there are only four of them left. Maybe here it's more of a spy mission.
What is the motivation for attacking The Wall & the Night's Watch?
I understand WHAT they're doing (I never lost that thread really), but I'm a bit fuzzy on the why of it all.
I know there's historical animosity there. But really, what is to be gained by attacking them?
So the wildlings are fleeing to the south beyond the wall.
Mance Rayder told join the motivation for the wildlings to form an army, shortly after they met - to stay alive.
[quote]Samwell Tarly, Grenn and Eddison Tollett gather dung around the Fist of the First Men when they hear a horn being blown and believe Jon Snow and Qhorin Halfhand have returned. Then they hear a second blow, the signal for incoming wildlings, and draw their swords for battle. Then they hear a third blow, the signal for White Walkers. The three run to the Night's Watch camp but Samwell is left behind, while a blizzard envelops the entire plateau. He seeks refuge behind a rock whilst a White Walker, leads a vast horde of Wights. The White Walker sees Sam but ignores him, riding past him atop an undead horse and leading the horde for an invasion.
Anybody know why the White Walker ignores Sam? Is it because he had the Dragon glass on him?
Thanks r61. Don't get me wrong, I thoroughly enjoy this show but I tend to drink too much wine while watching & sometimes I miss key plot points.
Thanks for not making me feel like a total idiot like the IMDb folks did. Off to re-watch the last few episodes and get caught up.
If you haven't yet read the link at R63, you should do so now.
R66, "Since the White Walkers did not return for the past eight thousand years, the Night's Watch has mostly shifted its focus to preventing the wildlings from crossing south of the Wall, and sending out patrols into the wilderness to keep track of wildling movements. The shift of focus also reduced the Night's Watch from a band of honorable warriors into largely a dumping ground for exiled criminals."
I find that reading the backstories and histories of the different houses and characters has increased my enjoyment of the show without ruining anything for me since I haven't read the books and I don't want to know spoilers. Knowing what I know now, re-watching the first two seasons has been more enjoyable than when they originally aired. I can see why the books, and now the show, has such a loyal and vocal following. HBO, Weiss and Benioff have many reasons to be proud of what they have accomplished. This show deserves the fucking Emmy for best drama. Nothing else comes close.
[quote]Does Tywin know Littlefinger was going to take Sansa with him? I remember Littlefinger's conversation with Sansa. Where he said he was putting somethings in motion and he'd be able to get her out of there.
Was LF actually going to take Sansa with him? Or is that just what he was telling her to put his whole scheme into play? Tywin calls him on it, he could just as easily say he was testing her loyalty.
[quote]Was he talking about the marriage? Because I thought the marriage to Jane Arryn was already decided. So why was he being secretive with Sansa. What would be the point of Littlefinger taking Sansa if he is going out there to marry that crazy Arryn woman?
Lysa Arryn (not Jane) is her mother's sister. Taking her to the Eyrie might be a way of persuading her to go. But risking telling her the particulars wasn't a gamble he was going to make at the point.
I wonder why Olenna didn't threaten to withdraw the Tryrell support. Tywin certainly needs them more than they need the Lannisters, Margaery's desire to be queen not withstanding.
R76, according to Ros (and, poor Ros, I hope Joffrey dies soon) LF ordered a bed for Sansa on the ship and I doubt he would do that if he didn't mean to take her with him. Or to serve Ros up to Joffrey like that as vengeance if it wasn't a real plan on his part.
The answer about Olenna will be evident as the season unfolds 77.
[quote]Well if nothing else, the fans can stop complaining about Ros now.
She was one of my few favorite characters. Oh well. There's been enough written on DL and elsewhere about not getting too attached to anybody on GoT.
Well, I'm really attached to Arya, Jon Snow & Tyrion. There are others I like well enough, but those are my top three.
If you want to find out what happens to Theon or any other character, type the character's name in Wikipedia and it will tell you everything about them. But all the spoilers are there for every season.
Once Tyrion figures out Joffrey tried to kill him, he asks if he's still in danger and Cersei says, "Probably." But she believes Joffrey won't try anything with Tywin around. You could tell that did absolutely nothing to reassure Tyrion.
Since Joffrey is king, he can have a couple of his guards remove Ros's body and dispose of it secretly. So I have to wonder if Tyrion or anyone else, especially Tywin ever finds out about it. It would seem that anyone who saw her as we saw her in that final scene would have screamed bloody murder. It was grotesque.
Somehow, I want Tywin to walk into that room and see what Joffery has done. Joffrey has taken his grandfather's contempt for whores to an entirely new level.
[quote][R76], according to Ros (and, poor Ros, I hope Joffrey dies soon) LF ordered a bed for Sansa on the ship and I doubt he would do that if he didn't mean to take her with him. Or to serve Ros up to Joffrey like that as vengeance if it wasn't a real plan on his part.
Simple enough- the ship's manifest was bait to catch a mole.
The particulars of poor Ros's demise was perhaps improvisation, bur back in s2 Littlefinger did warn her about what happens to bad investments/whores.
Tywin doesn't suffer fools lightly and there is no bigger fool than Joffrey. Also remember that for Tywin, preserving the dignity of House Lannister is paramount. The actions of Joffrey puts a dark blight on the family name. He is an embarrassment and I'm sure Tywin is soon going to give that boy a well deserved dressing down.
Nice pun r49 ;)
Cant wait for Joffrey's Bloody Wedding
Actually, it's more of a brooch.
r87, I think his wedding will be next season. There's already another wedding happening. Plus apparently the "big thing" that's supposed to happen at Joffrey's wedding isn't happening till next season.
So we have the Joffrey/ Margaery wedding, Turion and Sansa, and what else?
I think the Tyrion and Sansa wedding will be this season, either the next episode or episode 8.
The way I know Joffrey's wedding will not take place this season is because they didn't cast anyone for the role of Prince Oberyn Martell. He's a very important character and he's definitely a presence at Joffrey's wedding, and then some. I can't wait to see the Martells. They're my favorite GoT family.
[quote]I wonder why Olenna didn't threaten to withdraw the Tryrell support.
Because she, Margaery and Loras are all in Lannister hands in King's Landing. Also, the Tyrells want the marriage of Margaery and Joffrey to happen as much as the Lannisters do.
[quote]So we have the Joffrey/ Margaery wedding, Turion and Sansa, and what else?
Right now, we have the wedding planned between Edmure Tully and one of the Frey daughters that was just arranged this week. So that's three weddings.
[quote] Joffrey has been pretty tame this season until now. Holy shit...what kind of freak did Cersei spawn? Is it the incest?
Tyrion and Cersei had a conversation last season about the Targareyn incest - how it was a flip of the coin that often resulted in crazies. It was a wonderful scene where Tyrion reassured her that her other two children were all right. I'm glad to know that Cersei was not the one who ordered the hit on him.
[quote] I see some holes in the story. If Tywin was worried about the Tyrells getting too powerful on their own, why is he not concerned for Littlefinger as well.
LF moves in the shadows. He's the one that started this whole war in the first place when he lied and told Catelyn that Bran's attempted assassin's knife belonged to Tyrion. Varys is the only one who seems to see LF for what he is.
Why can't one of Varys' little birds assassinate Littlefinger? Well, I guess there wouldn't be much of a story if that happened, but still. I don't like Littlefinger having the upper hand on Varys this season. I've grown quite fond of him, actually.
Assassination is certainly an option, but remember Littlefinger has his own "little birds." If Varys's assassin botched the job, Littlefinger would find out who did it and retaliate immediately and severely. The only way to be sure to do it right would be to hire one of the Faceless Men from Braavos (like Ja'qen H'ghar last season), but their services cost a king's ransom.
The Red Wedding is supposed to end this season. Joffrey's will be the Big Event next season.
Too much excitement, otherwise.
Here's to hoping that when Arya becomes a "faceless man" she hunts down Littlefinger, cuts off all his fingers, and shoves them up
his ass. . . for a start.
I sure would like to see that pretty man, the Polish actor who played Ja'qen H'ghar come back in Season 4. He is gorgeous and he really played his part well. He was sinister and lethal and he certainly was eyeballing Arya.
I think he's German, r99, not Polish. But I agree he's beautiful and has a lovely voice. I hope we get to see him do other stuff on TV and in the movies--he's got extraordinary camera presence.
ahh darn, I'd been hoping Joffrey's wedding would be this season, I'm very much looking forward to seeing it.
[quote]Right now, we have the wedding planned between Edmure Tully and one of the Frey daughters that was just arranged this week. So that's three weddings.
Don't forget Tyrion's engagement to the girl who gets eternally shat upon, Sansa.
So... it's down to just four wildlings (counting Jon Snow) who managed to scale the wall successfully.
What's their goal?
There's more than four of them. You could see a few more making it to the top further down the wall from where Jon's party arrived. I can't recall how many scaled the wall to begin with, but they most likely only lost a third to a half of their original crew.
I'm guessing the plan proceeds. I don't think Jon was telling the truth (or at least, wasn't aware of the true numbers after the slaughter at the Fist of the First Man) when he said there were a thousand men at Castle Black.
In the books at least the people that climbed the wall then sent down ladders or some such for others to join them. I am sure more wildlings will appear than those four.
If this season is The Clash of the Kings, then from what I read online, the Red Wedding plus Joffrey's wedding and one other big event happens this season.
Sansa looks prettier this season. I like her copper colored hair.
Yes, but you can't just go by the books. It's obvious the HBO series is reworking things to suit them to the medium. So they'll string it out.
This season, they'll have everyone go to the Frey's for Edmure's wedding, and they'll have Tyrion marry Sansa. I suspect we might get a scene with Littlefinger marrying the Lisa Arryn.
The Wedding of Joffrey will have to happen next year. Season 4. There is one other big event that has to happen in season 4, but you can't have them all happening in one season. It wouldn't work well on TV.
Personally I really don't see how they can run this series longer than 6 seasons. And George R.R. Martin is going to have to do some real serious writing. I hated the way he left things hanging in Book 5.
r97, I think Joffrey’s wedding is a big event but it’s only one of several WTF moments next season. Without spoiling, but for those who read the books will know, next season big moments involves Sir Oberyn Martell (yet to be cast), crazy Lysa Arryn and Littlefinger, and Tywin and Tyrion Lannister.
r107, Season 2 was The Clash of the Kings. This season, 3, and season 4 is from the third book A Storm of Swords.
I agree r109 that Mr. Martin will have to bring it in Book 6. It ended on a hopeful note but seriously, Book 6 needs to be at the game-changing level of A Storm of Swords. There’s a reason why Storm is considered by most to be the best book in the series.
So 1 books for every two years? Why couldn't they just have a longer year? Start this in January and run it to June.
[quote]I'm guessing the plan proceeds.
Yes, but as I and others have asked multiple times in this thread, [italic]what the fuck is the plan??[/italic]
I can't understand what it is they think they're doing. What is their goal?
I thought their goal was simply to cross over to the South, past the wall, because the walkers are coming.
They first have to get past the crows whose purpose over thousands of years has simply become keeping the wildlings out. The men of the watch were originally formed to defend the wall from walkers, but because walkers hadn't been seen for thousands of years they lost their genuine purpose.
[quote]I thought their goal was simply to cross over to the South, past the wall, because the walkers are coming.
If that's true, it was never made all that clear (at least to me)... they keep talking like it's an invasion, an attack, they're doing to destroy the crows/nights-watch. Which seems like a really stupid idea, since they are standing against the white walkers too.
I thought it was a reconnaissance mission to learn which of the castles along the wall are manned.
Jon Snow already knows which ones are manned. No?
I think that was the point of one of their conversations. They chose that location because it was least likely to be guarded.
Why does a man climb The Wall? Because it is there.
They were an advance party, that was explained an episode or so back. As soon as they made it to the top, the bird would see it, and the main group would come to the wall. I suppose at that point they climb ropes or ladders.
That said, if you look carefully in the background of the final scene you can see dozens (maybe more) people reaching the top.
They don't trust him.
They do and they don't. They trust Jon Snow more now that he's bedded Ygritte. Crows can't have sex. But they do see him as too good to be true. I think Mance likes him. Really wants to believe he's for real. But no. They don't.
You know, when you think about it, they're running away from the wights and the Whitewalkers. The entire world or at least Westeros or whatever, is threatened by this. This is bigger than the seven kings squabbling and killing one another.
So at some point, the wildings who are really hippie/anarchist/libertarians, and the people on the other side of the wall, are both going to face a common enemy. I didn't read the books. But I do have common sense. Altho I would dearly love to see a Wight eat Joffrey!
The wildling party, I said three pages ago, is planning to attack and weaken Castle Black from the back, which is undefended. Or at least that's what they were doing in the book.
So wildings prefer invading the rear?
I avoided saying "from the rear," but the rear is never far from gay minds.
The guy torturing Theon is too gorgeous for me to hate. I always fall for the bad boys.
r110, the Tywin/Tyrion thing is happening this season. Charles Dance already confirmed.
r126, they cannot have the Tywin/Tyrion scene until after Joffrey's wedding and that is definitely not taking place until Season 4. If they don't push Joff's wedding and Tywin/Tyrion scene until the next season then that season won't have much drama to account for, now will it? The producers said the third book was being split between this year and next.
The best aspect of the series, IMO is how petty the War of the Five Kings and all the court intrigues at King's Landing seem in the face of two major threats. That of the White Walkers in the North (Ice) and that of Daenerys and her dragons to the East (Fire).
A Song of Ice and Fire is the name of the book series.
fine r127, but I saw an interview with Charles Dance where he said they filmed the scene. It's on youtube somewhere.
Maybe they filmed it for scheduling or budgeting purposes, but it won't be shown this season. They aren't very sharp when it comes to this series. I've been reading about all the film projects and TV series John Madden is landing. Clearly indicating what he's doing next year.
I have no idea how far ahead they've written the HBO drama, but it would seem to me that when you have to go to Iceland on location, it would be nice to be able to shoot as much as possible there so you don't have to go back every year and rebuild everything. Same with the other locations.
[quote]The wildling party, I said three pages ago, is planning to attack and weaken Castle Black from the back, which is undefended. Or at least that's what they were doing in the book.
I guess I still don't understand this. If they just want to get away from the white walkers, then why attack and thus lessen the defenses against the white walkers coming after them? Why not just sneak over the wall and get as far south as possible? Leave the Night's Watch to defend the wall? Instead of dying at the hands of white walkers, many will day at the hands of Night's Watch in the battle (how is that an improvement?) and they'll make a gap in the defenses...
I'm just not grasping the goal/tactics here.
Most of their population would not be able to scale the wall. They will need to go around it which means getting past the Crow defenses.
Please stop toying with spoilers.
[quote]Please stop toying with spoilers
Jesus, your need for control is really tedious. Get help.
Hey R132, fuck off with your incessant, tiresome hall monitoring.
Unless you're the new webmaster/moderator, piss off and stop reading if you're so delicate you're terrified of accidentally reading a 'spoiler', you irritating twat.
Shouldn't you be back at iVillage anyway?
You fuck off. There is a separate thread for people who have read the books and want to discuss future events.
[quote]You fuck off. There is a separate thread for people who have read the books and want to discuss future events.
You're pathetic, and getting worse. It's not enough now to object to CLEARLY LABELED spoilers, you now have to start warning people who are "toying" with spoilers? How damaged are you?
Stick to your pathetic self-fingering fangurl blog posts about arcane George RR Martin trivia and slash fiction about Jon Snow and leave adults alone. No one will miss you.
You are revealing yourself to be an enormous prick.
And not in a good way
sputter, sputter, rage, post, sputter sputter, post again, SPOILERS!!!! gag, gag, sputter sputter, JON SNOW!!!!!!
[pulls kleenex from box and begins to wipe up]
I agree posting spoilers on this page is beyond obnoxious. There's another thread for spoilers for Game of Thrones.
Okay, R112, cool your jets. I went back to watch the wildling scene in 'Walk of Punishment' to get a better idea of Mance Rayder's plan.
They take Jon to the Fist of the First Men and find the spiraled corpses of the horses. The warg in their camp had already seen the battle and knew a lot of the 'crows' died there--and then likely resurrected as wights. That was a lot of men, which indicates to Mance that, 1) the Whitewalkers have a bigger army now, and 2)The Wall's guard is weakened by the loss.
He tells Tormund to scale the wall (with a party of 20, plus Snow). The idea is that they'll infiltrate the castle from the back. Mance tells him, 'they've got a great big wall to hide behind', so I think the first goal is to get his people behind that wall for protection. Tormund and company are to hit the least manned gate and take it over. Then, when Mance sends his signal ("I'm gonna light the biggest fire the North has ever seen!"), they'll open the gates so that the wildlings can make their way to the other side. At that point, there will be a flat out war between whatever is left of the Nights Watch and the wildlings. Snow told them at least a thousand men were stationed there, but we don't know if that's accurate or not.
If I recall from last season, the Lord Commander took 200 men with him to go North. After the slaughter at Craster's Keep, there can't be much of them left.
Helicopter-parented child at r140. The Hall Monitor is a control freak who's regularly gone entirely overboard in policing these threads. Then again, you sound like the type who enjoys being scolded for "toying with spoilers" when no one's doing any such thing.
GROW THE FUCK UP.
[quote]Most of their population would not be able to scale the wall. They will need to go around it which means getting past the Crow defenses.
Once SOMEBODY scales the wall, the rest can all be hauled up using ropes and pulleys.
And if the wall is made of ice, why don't they just melt a tunnel through it. There seem to be plenty of trees for firewood.
I thought the Wall was supposed to be impenetrable, 143. It seems to make more sense to send a small group to get over the other side and then OPEN THE GATE so the rest of the party can just stroll on in, right?
[quote]And if the wall is made of ice, why don't they just melt a tunnel through it. There seem to be plenty of trees for firewood.
The heat-capacity of ice is huge. It would take a TON of energy to bore a hole through the ice by melting. And a VERY long time.
Is Iwan Rheon into homosex?
Iwan Rheon has had girlfriends in the past. In fact he dated the ex-girlfriend (and actress in her own right) of Tom Cullen, one of the gays from Weekend, and soon to be seen in Downtown Abbey.
The conversations on this thread have been pretty civilized. It would be a shame if it became just another DL screech fest. GoT can be a difficult show to follow if the viewer isn't familiar with the books and doesn't read spoilers. I appreciate when spoilers are clearly labeled. I also understand the frustration those who have read the books feel when they are trying to explain something to a newbie but find it difficult to do without giving too much away. A few people have managed to pull that off and I salute you. The following are not spoilers, only speculation on my part. I have not read the books. I guess the small band of Wildings who climbed the wall can be considered a scouting party which is why it was important for Jon Snow to go with them. They need to know how many of the Nights Watch still man the wall and the weak spots in their defenses. They also want proof that Jon Snow is one of them and can be trusted. If it turns out he lied to them and is leading them into a trap they will do away with him right then and there.The Worg seems to have it in for Snow. Is it because he doesn't trust him or because Snow knows the Worg doesn't always "see" what he says he does? Is the Worg a crow mole? Or is my imagination running away with me?;)
Is it Warg or Worg?
The Worg is just difficult. And he does see into the future, so maybe he saw something that would make him doubt Jon's sincerity. And wouldn't it be a hoot on all of us, if it turns out Jon Snow has become a traitor to the Nights Watch, and really does abandon them for Ygritte's sake. LOLOLOL!
He'd rise quickly if Mance Rayder likes him. And that may be another problem. Mance does like him. The Worg and a few others realize this, and may well be jealous of Jon winning someone over so quickly, when they are never accorded the same level of respect. Sorry. I'm going to be a hold out hope Jon turns traitor to the Watch.
wArgs can't see into the future, they can only possess animals. What Bran can do, he can see the future.
You HOPE he turns traitor? I thought he deserted.
Is he on some secret mission that I missed?
He's infiltrating the Wildings camp. Killing Qhorin Halfhand was part of that plan.
Does anyone know if Podrick and Loras run away together to the free cities this season or next season?
Also does the Sansa pushing Cercei down the stairs scene happen in the next couple of episodes?
I can't wait for Lady Olenna to set herself on fire in the middle of the great hall. That's going to be one amazing scene.
And I wonder just how much detail they'll go into about Brienne's intersex condition.
I want so much for Jaime and Brienne to get it on.
I worry about Brienne. She and Jamie will be separated. They took away her sword & put her in a dress. I fear for her.
There is a gate and tunnel at each Nights Watch castle that the crows use to go through the Wall. We've seen it several times. This is what the wildlibgs want to get control of.
The Kingslayer is on Jimmy Fallon at 12:30AM EST 5/10/13.
It's been fun but I'm opting out of reading or posting in this thread until after the season finale. I love this show and I want to enjoy it in the moment, in all it's jaw dropping glory. Unfortunately, there always seems to be a couple of immature assholes lurking about, just waiting for the chance to ruin the show for the people who haven't read the books. If you don't want to know what happens next, scroll slow, my friends. Scroll slow.
Someone remind me something from season 1...I think these are just things I missed/can't remember, but if I'm asking for spoilers, then nevermind.
Who paid the assassin to try to kill bran in bed? Was it Jaimie or Cersie? And who's blade was it? Littlefinger lied when he said it was Tyrion's, right?
[quote]Who paid the assassin to try to kill bran in bed? Was it Jaimie or Cersie?
[quote]And who's blade was it? Littlefinger lied when he said it was Tyrion's, right?
It was Tyrion's blade. Joffrey had it stolen.
And that is exactly why posters like R160 are leaving R162.
The poster wasn't asking about the book, who sent the assassin has not been addressed in the TV show.
I don't see why discussing something that happened in season 1 should be considered a spoiler now? I also don't remember Joffery being a factor then in terms of Bran's assassination attempt. Robert, his father the king, was still alive.
I thought Littlefinger was implicated. It was definitely Tyrion's knife, but Tyrion had nothing to do with it. I always thought Jamie engineered it when he discovered Bran would live. Jamie or Cersei.
But the assassin and the knife, I somehow put Littlefinger in that mix. After all, that would start the war that brought about his "Chaos." It's as if Littlefinger made sure to implicate the Lannisters.
You're wrong. The assassination attempt was addressed n the HBO version.
Not a spoiler but a comparison of book and show - Jaime goes on and ON about how ugly Brienne is in the books, how large and ungainly and so forth. Is it overkill (as in, Jaime's fighting attraction) or is she really meant to be that homely? If so, why is she reasonably attractive on the show?
[quote]If so, why is she reasonably attractive on the show?
Because it's TV and they don't put ugly people on TV with the exception of Alfie Allen (Theon).
R164 here. I stand corrected. It was Joffrey who sent someone to kill Bran and it was Littlefinger who exploited it. Joffrey had gotten a very memorable face slapping from Uncle Tyrion after Bran fell. I remember now. Robert said it would've been a mercy if the poor little boy died. Joffrey decided to help that along and used uncle's knife. Clearly Joffrey was a conniving little monster from birth.
r163, you've got to get a grip. It's been established on the show Joffrey arranged to have Bran assassinated.
Can someone summarise Diana Rigg's involvement, and perhaps do a "S#%t [Rigg's character name] Says" for YT.
Sansa's head is much too small for her body. I don't find her attractive,
Is Littlefinger in love with her, or was he trying to be kind to her because of his friendship with her mom?
R171, after seeing the last episode with Littlefinger & Varys, and what happened to Ros, do you really believe that Littlefinger would "try to be kind" to Sansa? It makes my ski crawl when I see him talking to her and she eats it all up and is so gullible.
I can understand why Jamie would bitch, and goad Brienne and call her ugly. His sister/lover is one of the most beautiful women "in the kingdom." he's very "feminine." That's his standard.
Aside from her size, Brienne attempts to be a warrior. Jamie has a reputation as a warrior. Seeing Brienne all decked out as a knight in armor, knowing she was a member of Renley's guard was a concept he found laughable.
Is that so difficult to get your head around? Brienne didn't have toactually be ugly, all she had to be is different, and to hold authority over him.
re: Diana Rigg's involvement in the show:
The continent where most of this story takes place, Westeros, is mostly dominated by the "Seven Kingdoms," which consists of several ruling houses with one house ruling over all of them from the Iron Throne. Diana Rigg plays Olenna Tyrell, who is the matriarch of one of the wealthiest and most powerful houses, Tyrell.
Her granddaughter Margaery (Natalie Dormer) is the daughter of the current lord of the house of Tyrrell and is the widow of a member of another house (Baratheon) who claimed the throne of all the kingdoms, which is being currently contested for; Margaery is now to be wed to the current holder of the Iron Throne, the boy king Joffrey. Olenna and Margaery are in the capital city, King's Landing, right now for the wedding, and Olenna is not only overseeing the wedding but is also negotiating with the Lannisters (the family of King Joffrey) to determine who will marry the heir to House Tyrell, Margaery's brother Loras.
Olenna Tyrell is referred to in the books (so far not on the show) as "The Queen of Thorns" because she has such a biting and caustic wit and because she does no suffer fools gladly.
Thanks for the info r173
You know, it's kind of funny. I just watched seasons 1 and 2 again for the sole purpose of re-evaluating the information given out during all those long exposition scenes. The history and the many names of characters we're only just meeting up with passed over my head the first time with little of it staying with me.
Upon a second viewing, however, everything that's happening in the third season has a context now, and the information that was previously given resonates much stronger with me. What was happening with Mance and the wildlings, their intent for the Wall, the various machinations of Littlefinger, Varys, Cersei, and even Tyrion are clearer to me. I even realized who certain characters were meant to be this time round (I hadn't recognized the Mountain sitting at the table with Tywin at Harrenhall, but now I understand what the Brotherhood were going on about). Plus, now there's no doubt in my mind what is happening to Theon.
And going back to rewatch that first scene between Ned and Jaimie in the second or third episode, gives Jaimie's speech to Brienne about the Mad King so much more power.
Still, with all of that re-entry of information, I don't recall any discussion amongst any of the relevant characters about Joffrey having a hand in Bran's assassination attempt.
It's odd. Because I thought I remembered Jamie talking about it with Catelyn when he was in captivity and he said he was the one who tried it. Whether it was Joffrey or Jamie or Cersei, I still haven't figured out how Littlefinger arranged for the assassin to use Tyrion's dagger. I thought he got hold of it when Tyrion frequented his whorehouse.
When Littlefinger arranged for Catelyn to meet Ned at Littlefinger's whorehouse, didn't Littlefinger tell her it was Tyrion's dagger?
Yes, he did. But the question remains, who gave the dagger to the assassin? Littlefinger couldn't have planned that all the way from Kings Landing. Tyrion wouldn't have done it. And to the best of my knowledge (and the same for some other posters here) no one has said anything about it....on the show.
I fear the answers some people are proposing are from books later in the series. Ah well....
Littlefinger is obsessed with Catelyn and much of the motivations in his life has stemmed from him being rejected by her in their youth.
He truly does fancy Sansa but only because she reminds him of her mother. It's sick and twisted and deliciously George R.R. Martin.
I have been watching season 2 again and Jon Snow has indeed been tasked with infiltrating the Wildings by Qhorin Halfhand. Ygritte seems to have his number, which is why she tells him he didn't stop being a Crow when he walked into Mance Ryder's tent, but he's going to be loyal to HER. I like not knowing which way he's going to go and where his real loyalties lie. That explains why the Warg doesn't like him. Count me as another fan who hopes he chooses the Wildings and Ygritte.
Jon's time with the Wildlings was a pivotal turning point in his character. Jon, as a Stark, had always believed the world to be black and white, right and wrong.
Infiltrating the Wildlings and then growing to like them opened his eyes to the moral ambiguity that lies beneath the surface of everything. His father's sanctimonious platitudes hung heavy over his head like they did for all the Stark children.
I can't wait for tonights ep. OT, is something wrong eith DL this morning? I can only see threads that I have previously commented on.
Somehow there has to be a link between Joffrey's desire to both murder Bran, and get back at Uncle Tyrion, and Littlefinger making it happen. It drives me crazy that I can't figure this out.
[quote]I can't wait for tonight's ep. OT, is something wrong with DL this morning? I can only see threads that I have previously commented on.
Yes, it's the same for me. It's been malfunctioning since last night.
[quote]Still, with all of that re-entry of information, I don't recall any discussion amongst any of the relevant characters about Joffrey having a hand in Bran's assassination attempt.
Because there has been no discussion about that on the show. Who arranged for Bran's assassin is still a mystery.
Tonights episode was written by George RR Martin, the author of the books, I always look forward to those!
Can't believe it's gone over so many people's heads but Margery killed Ros with the Crossbow. Go to the scene where she asks Joff if he thought she could kill something and then proceeds to asking him if he'd like to watch her do it....
No way. Margarey would never have been in the room with Ros. They were betrothed not married. At that time, Joffrey was putting what was, for him, his best self on display. He was being "regal and suthoritative", proper. For him.
He could barely conceal his despicable cruel nature, but around Margarey he tried to act the King. No way he would have her in the presence of a whore, much less involve her in his perversions.
Once they married it would be a different story, but not at that point in their relationship. I think Margarey Tyrell was testing him. She sensed his arrogance wasn't the normal male arrogance of a king, but that he was an unstable, dangerous man.
Although I must say, it would have been interesting if it had been played out the way you suggest. But if it had, Margarey would have been an entirely different character. She'd have been a female Joffrey, and that would have necessitated a different story line.
So is Jon Snow a dragon too? Fire and Ice. Climbing the rock. Yeah. I get it.
Jamie and the Queen both had motivation to kill Bran, but not Joffrey.
Had they even spoken to each other?
Oh, please. It's no mystery. Jamie would be he obvious choice to have pit the hit out on Bran. Except he would've never used Tyrion's dagger. The "assassin" was clearly an amateur. So my pick is Littlefinger, who wanted to start a war. There's opportunity in War and Littlefinger was the consummate opportunist.
Are we sure it was Joffery who killed Ros or was it Margery, now now hear me out... In an earlier scene it shows Joff and Marge talking about the crossbow and she asked "Would you like to see me use it on someone?" and her knowing how to play the Game of Thrones may have done it to please him... At the end, do we see anything besides Ros with an arrow in her chest..? Boom!! Knowledge...
Sorry. As stated above, they were betrothed, not married. There's no way Joffrey would have his betrothed, his future queen, in the presence of a whore. He was arrogant and cruel and perverse, but he was also very conscious, perhaps overly so, of his place and her place in the firmament. Ros wasn't even a real person to him. She was less than the dung piles in the streets of Kings Landing. He'd never have Margery around her. Joffrey fooled no one, but he thought he did, by having one face with Margery, and the court, and another in private.
Its funny how I stated facts from the episode and you disagree because Joffery would never do a thing like that. How did you get this inside information? Were you Jofferys hand maiden or chamber pot boy?
Was Joffery betrothed to Sansa when he beat her and killed her father? He wouldn't do that to Margery though...
He relates differently to Margarey. More formal and mature-acting. He never treated Sansa that way, even before he had her father killed. Sansa had nothing to recommend her to Joffrey. He viewed her as a child, a dependent.
He had contempt for Sansa, was betrothed to her when he was a young prince, and his father was alive. Now he is a king. He has no trouble abusing Sansa because he is at war with her brother, but Margarey and the Tyrells are allies.
Hey. If you want to believe Margarey killed Ros go ahead. It makes no sense. If you think about it, Margarey is just trying to survive. She knows he is violent & cruel and menacing, but she would not travel down that road with hm. If she had, if GRRM wanted Margarey to match Joffrey's cruelty, he'd have shown that side of her obviously and clearly.
Didn't he brag about killing Roz in a later episode? Or am I imagining that?
Joffery treated Sansa very nice and formal even after the wolf incident with the Wolf biting... Maybe joff wasn't nice enough to the Direwolf because they were not allies... That's why it bit him... I feel like Im arguing with a 12yr old female who has a crush on Joffery and he can do no wrong...