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Boston bomb suspects' parents retreat to village, cancel U.S. trip
Exclusive: Boston bomb suspects' parents retreat to village, cancel U.S. trip
By Maria Golovnina
UNDISCLOSED LOCATION IN NORTH CAUCASUS, Russia | Sun Apr 28, 2013 2:42pm EDT
(Reuters) - The parents of the Boston Marathon bombing suspects have retreated to a village in southern Russia to shelter from the spotlight and abandoned plans for now to travel to the United States, the father of the suspects told Reuters on Sunday.
Speaking in the garden of a large house, Anzor Tsarnaev said he believed he would not be allowed to see his surviving son Dzhokhar, who was captured and has been charged in connection with the April 15 bomb blasts that killed three people and wounded 264.
"Unfortunately I can't help my child in any way. I am in touch with Dzhokhar's and my own lawyers. They told me they would let me know (what to do)," Tsarnaev said in an interview in the village where he relocated with the suspects' mother.
He agreed to the face-to-face meeting on condition that the village's location in the North Caucasus, a string of mainly Muslim provinces in southern Russia, not be disclosed.
"I am not going back to the United States. For now I am here. I am ill," said Tsarnaev, pacing nervously in the garden at sunset in the quiet village set in rolling hills and surrounded by cow pastures.
His face gaunt and tired, Tsarnaev said he suffered from high blood pressure and a heart condition.
Tsarnaev had said in the North Caucasus province of Dagestan on Thursday that he planned to travel to the United States to see Dzhokhar and bury his elder son, Tamerlan, who was killed during a manhunt four days after the bombings.
In Sunday's interview he said he had decided to move away from the family home in Dagestan to the new location because he wanted to keep a low profile.
Dressed in a black shirt and black trousers, he passionately defended his sons' innocence, saying they had nothing to do with Islamist extremists.
"I feel hopeless. We are simple people. We are trying to understand. We are attacked from all sides," he said, clutching his head in despair.
"I don't know whether I should talk or stay silent. I don't want to harm my child. ... We are used to all sorts of things here but we didn't expect this from the United States."
He and other members of the family believe a man shown on television being led naked into a police car the night of the shootout was Tamerlan, and that the blurry footage, still widely available on YouTube, proves Tamerlan was captured alive. Boston police say Tamerlan was killed in a shootout, and the man seen being led into the car was a bystander who was briefly detained.
Anzor Tsarnaev said he raised the issue with U.S. officials who visited him earlier in the week in his home in Dagestan.
"I asked them: 'I saw my child alive, he was being put into a police vehicle alive and healthy. How come media said he was killed?' They were shocked themselves," the father said.
The Tsarnaevs are ethnic Chechens who lived in the Central Asian country of Kyrgyzstan and in Dagestan before emigrating to the United States with their children. The parents returned to Dagestan two years ago, and Tamerlan spent the first half of 2012 there.
The suspects' mother, Zubeidat, was with Anzor Tsarnaev in the village but did not wish to speak.
"She is ill, she is shocked, she is depressed. She lost her children," Tsarnaev said. The couple are divorced but have stayed together.
Although the Tsarnaev brothers have roots in Dagestan and neighboring Chechnya, neither had spent much time there until Tamerlan returned to Dagestan last year for six months.
During his interview, Anzor Tsarnaev denied Tamerlan had any contact with militants during his stay, painting an idyllic picture of his son's visit to his ancestral homeland.
"When he came to stay here, he was a good boy. He read books, (Leo) Tolstoy, (Alexandre) Dumas and thick English language books. He would wake up late and read all day, late into the night," he said.
"Sometimes we went to the mosque. We went to see our relatives, in Dagestan, in Chechnya. We visited a lot of households, it was a nice atmosphere."
Tsarnaev said he had to force his son to return to the United States to complete his U.S. citizenship application after Tamerlan tried to convince his family to allow him to stay in Dagestan for good.
"I told him: 'No, you have to go back to obtain your U.S. citizenship'. I forced him to go back. I thought it was the right thing to do. I shouldn't have done that," he said with a pained expression on his face.
The father said he had no hope that Tamerlan's body would be released by the U.S. authorities to be buried in his homeland.
"They won't give us his body," he said, his voice breaking with emotion. "We wont be able to bury him in our land."
- Could these good people just shut the fuck up and grieve quietly? Such trash.
- I hope the Russians grab the mother and put her behind bars
- The mother has yapped enough for the Russian federal forces to do their stuff and swoop and take the cunt somewhere, elsewhere.
Her bones might be displayed, clean picked like the asshole she aspired to be. Her choice now seems to be as clean picked by others who forcibly take her cunt flesh from her. Who the fuck are they?
- The dad is hot
- Oh, jesus, the mother is too stupid to be real.
- I would Love to think that our country managed to get some balls, called up the Ruskies and told them to keep these two fame whores in your own goddamned country because we are freakin full up! Or something maybe a little more polite than that just because it's like, diplomacy and whatnot.
- The only issue, R6, is the favor we'd owe them in return.
- The mother reminds me of an Andrea Martin character from SCTV.
- The father moved back to Dagestan two years ago. We're not sure when the mother moved back. Is there documentation that they are divorced? The son stayed for 6 months and went traveling around Chechnya and Dagestan "visiting households." He wanted to stay but dad made him move back.
They were a cell. At the very least, the oldest son was going to move back to Dagestan permanently once he got away with the bombings.
- Terror Mom is interviewed at her former job
- Zubeidet Tsarnaev in a local dinner theater production in Massachusetts. Her singing voice is quite good.
- I would have asked the dad if that scum son of his was he planning to abandon his wife and kid here in the US?
- Maybe Borat can go interview them.
- i think the parents knew the plans that's why left usa.
they must be so proud to have raised 2 murdering ass wholes.
- I'd be perfectly happy to never hear about the area between Istanbul and India ever again. These people are impossible, just impossible. Let them slaughter each other and leave the rest of us alone.
- "Cancelled their trip." Damn straight they cancelled their trip. No way either of those two would be let into the country. Plus the mom has a warrant and would go straight to jail.
- They probably are, R14. People from that part of the world are no better than wild animals.
- So much hate in this thread... much more than a tea party convention. A little more and it becomes the next Westboro Baptist Church!
- [quote]a string of mainly Muslim provinces
What a humongous surprise that is!
- r18: Go fuck yourself with a chain saw. People are dead, including a child.
The family is loathsome.
*The father is a lying sack of shit. First he leaves the US because he needs an operation for a brain tumor and goes to Germany--then returns to his native country. Right. Now it's a heart condition and high blood pressure.
*The parents got divorced. Right.
The parents were involved in a cell and the aunt in Toronto worked with them. Where did the brothers get their money to manage? Pot. The older brother set up the scores and the younger one did the selling.
- Agree with you R20 except for the white trash part. Race is more of a spectrum than neat categories, but if you want to use those terms, hey're not white. They're "Middle Eastern" - what ever that means.
Chechnya's about 120 miles from Iranian border, vs. 1,000+ miles from Moscow. The reason Chechnyans don't want to be part of Russia is because they don't want to be ruled by "whites".
This dude is trash - but he's not "white trash."
- Most Middle Eastern peoples are caucasian, r21.
- What the hell does that even mean, R22 "caucasian." You do realize that all of these racial categories are vague approximations based on a spectrum of different people and different traits right?
You can call that guy in the picture anything you want but don't try to pin him as "white ttrash" - he's not "white" any more than George Zimmerman is a "white hispanic."
In both cases, the media tried to build a narrative of "crazy white people" and then retro-fit the facts that actually came to light.
Jahar "white?" Nah.
- The whole idea of a "caucasian" was debunked decades ago along with the idea there are three great races (Negroid, Caucasoid, Mongoloid). There is in fact only one human race.
Having said that, if we're identifying people by regions, then Chechens are not white in the usual sense of the word. Isn't that expression mainly used for northern and western Europoeans?
- Isn't Chechnya in the Caucuses region? and if so, doesn't that make them as white as it gets?
- I don't care if they're from Whitey McWhiteville, R25. Use your eyes.
He could come from Caucuses eat cous-cous for breakfast lunch and dinner for all I care - that dude is not "white" in the sense the media is trying to laughably portray him.
The media wanted the bomber to be an right-wing, U.S. born-and raised white male and it wasn't. Instead of admitting they were wrong and they never should have brought race into it they are now peddling this BS about this guy being a "white, home grown terrorist." My ass. This is a Middle Eastern Muslim terrorist.
- They're not white people, they're ME in looks despite the Russian names and them being Muzzies, well, there you go. Not white. Not that there aren't whites that are Muslims, there are, it's just very rare.
- The uncle came today to wash the dead brother's body and give him a Muslim burial. What condition would the body be in now?
- FWIW, George Zimmerman is not white either, he's Latino.
- Poor Jahar, was brainwashed by his brother and is now paying the price for his brother's actions too.
- [quote]Instead of admitting they were wrong and they never should have brought race into it they are now peddling this BS about this guy being a "white, home grown terrorist." My ass.
Girl, please link to where the news media has reported that he is white at any point since his identity was pinpointed?
Stop making shit up, retard.
- Make no mistake, THEY ARE WHITE! They are from the caucuses, literally CAUCASIANS. They're probably whiter than you r27 because most American whites, especially southerners, are mutts. These guys are pure caucasians. As white as you can get. If they're not white then Cher who's Armenian and therefore has roots in the same region herself, isn't white either.
Tamerlan knew this and described himself as "white" and "muslim" to the Chinese guy they car-jacked. Yes, they don't look like Anna Kournikova, but northern and southern europeans look different, and Russia geographically covers these regions. Just like East and West Africans don't look the same.
This is a picture of the president of Chechnya, a young, crazy nut job called Ramzan Kadyrov. He's Chechen. What race would you say he is? He's WHITE!
- This guy and the people behind him are Chechen, would anyone try to tell us they're not white? Even the stormfront realises they are white, though not the "good kind".
- By the way, the topic of their whiteness was discussed on Melissa Harris-Perry the week the week of the bombing and she seemed to relish the fact that "caucasians" did this and not some Arabs or other race. The whole panel described them as white.
Article on the crazy strongman who runs the province, for those interested.
- R32 - as for the president of Chechnya here's a newsflash: not everyone in a country is the same ethnicity (duh).
As for who's "white" and who's not, spoiler alert: it has NOTHING to do with the mythical kindom of caucuses - that's 19th century pseudo-science.
"White" is a social construct primarily based on appearance and ethnicity. If you want to go ahead and proclaim that dark skinned dark haired Middle-Eastern people are "whiter" than Anna Kournakova what can I really say? You sound like a delusional ass?
- [quote] By the way, the topic of their whiteness was discussed on Melissa Harris-Perry the week the week of the bombing and she seemed to relish the fact that "caucasians" did this
Of course she did
- The media desperately wanted them to be dark skinned Arab Muslims, not white guys.
Anyway, I wish the parents could somehow be lured to the U.S. and then get what they deserve.
- [quote] please link to where the news media has reported that he is white at any point since his identity was pinpointed? Stop making shit up, retard.
[quote] Stop making shit up, retard.
- [quote]as for the president of Chechnya here's a newsflash: not everyone in a country is the same ethnicity (duh).
So ethnic Chechens are of multiple ethnicity? You really aren't the brightest. That president is of the same ethnic make up as Tamerlan and Dzokhar. Of course the colouring is different, but Africans too range from dark ebony to caramel but are all still black.
- [quote] So ethnic Chechens are of multiple ethnicity? You really aren't the brightest.
On this thread, yes I apparently am the brightest. (Obviously nothing to write home about).
The "Chechen People" are a VERY mixed lot.
[quote] The most recent study on Chechens, by Balanovsky et al. in 2011 sampled a total of 330 Chechens from three sample locations (one in Malgobek, one in Achkhoy-Martan, and one from two sites in Dagestan) and found the following frequencies: A weak majority of Chechens belong to Haplogroup J2 (56.7%), which is associated with Mediterranean, South Caucasian and Fertile Crescent populations, with its peaks at 87.4% in Ingushetia and 72% in Georgia's Kazbegi Municipality. In the North Caucasus, the largest frequencies are those of Nakh peoples (Chechens (56.7%) and Ingush (88.8%). Other notable values were found among North Caucasian Turkic peoples (Kumyks (25%) and Balkars (24%). A 2004 study of the mtDNA showed Chechens to be extremely diverse in the mitochondrial genome, with 18 different haplogroups out of only 23 samples. Chechens clustered closest to Azeris, Georgians and Kabardins.
Do you read or just shoot your mouth off?
- You get tripped up because the concept (and terms) of race is illogical.
"Caramel" is not black now, is it?
- [quote]"White" is a social construct primarily based on appearance and ethnicity. If you want to go ahead and proclaim that dark skinned dark haired Middle-Eastern people are "whiter" than Anna Kournakova what can I really say? You sound like a delusional ass?
Based on appearance? Can we rule out southern Italians then? Chechens are not Middle-Easterners, they're Caucasians. Saudis, Yemenis, Iraqi's and other Arab countries are in the Middle East, not the Caucuses. They're entirely different .
Of course an argument could be made for some Arabs like Syrians and Lebanese being technically white, but that is a different topic. Arabs cover the whole spectrum of appearance from white in places like Syria to black in Sudan. But that has nothing to do with a population of white people in the Caucuses who also happen to be mainly muslim.
- [quote]Not white. Not that there aren't whites that are Muslims, there are, it's just very rare.
Another news flash for you, Bosnians are muslim AND white. So much for "very rare".
Andre Agassi is Iranian btw, so Middle-Eastern and not white as far as you're concerned, right?
- Exactly, R41. People speak of race as if it's a real thing ( but they can't be blamed because we are socially conditioned to think this way). A person could be considered one race in the U.S. and another in Brazil or South Africa. There are some cultures who use facial features and not skin tone to determine race while others believe that you are what ever your father is. Race is ab illogical concept.
- [technically white]
There's your problem. There's no such thing as "technically white" (at least not an agreed-upon definition). But if there were it would be based on DNA, not based on what country someone's family is (allegedly) from or some word games having to do with the Caucuses mountains and "caucasian."
You're old, aren't you? Go back to school and learn science, not the 1950s pseudo science they taught when you were in school. If you're housebound, try an online course.
The whole concept of "exact" races is a joke. If you want to talk DNA, well then you actually have a conversation. But don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining and don't tell me that Boston Bomber is the whitest dude I've ever seen. Have a little respect for something called common sense. Please.
- [quote]Having said that, if we're identifying people by regions, then Chechens are not white in the usual sense of the word. Isn't that expression mainly used for northern and western Europoeans?
So where does that leave Southern Europeans Portuguese, Italians. Spaniards, French, Greeks and Eastern Europeans like Poles, Ukranians and Hungarians?
No use trying to disown them, Tamerlan and Dzhokhar are white and everyone sees them as such. Even the U.S. census bureau.
- [Another news flash for you]
Newsflash for you: you're not even quoting me, you're quoting someone else.
You all mixed up. Past your bedtime. Go to bed, race-baiting grandpa.
- Idiot at r42, without any sense of irony, goes into detail about Chechen diverse but white genetic make up
- With his shades and black jacket, the dad looks like Pete Townsend. The mother is a loon. Russia doesn't want the son's body, so we the U.S. are stuck w/ their trash in our soil. The family should have him buried out to sea, far, far, away from our shores.
- Idiot at R49 still can't read. I give up, you must be right. They are so white.
Kiss my white ass. (That's original flavor not "Chechen white")
- Your brothers at storemfront concede they're white r48. Go have them school you on the genetics.
And while you're at it, please call Cher and Andre Agassi with the news they're no-longer white.
- Kill yourself with a pressure cooker bomb r51. White people seem to enjoy finishing each other off with those nowadays.
- [quote]The media desperately wanted them to be dark skinned Arab Muslims, not white guys.
You could literally feel their disappointment when they discovered white people did this. But others like MHP on MSNBC could barely contain their glee and rubbed it in on her show. It seemed like she was celebrating white people killing each other.
- [quote]as for the president of Chechnya here's a newsflash: not everyone in a country is the same ethnicity (duh).
Ramzan Kadyrov is an ethnic Chechen r35. Before the brothers Tsarnaev, he was the most recognisable Chechen in the world. Are you saying he's not Chechen?
- Jahar looked like a model in the picture.
- Tamerlan wasn't so hard on the eyes either.
- White people are so weird about skin color and race-
The Tsarnaevs are of multiple racial heritage, ok? They come from a region of the world where there has been historically a lot of mixing (aka sex) between people of different skin colors- dark skinned middle easterners, white Europeans and the lighter skinned Asians.
Take a look at Dzhokhar friends- they are a rainbow.
So, the really important question is does Dzhokhar consider himself "white"?
- r58. Chechens are classified as white European even by the U.S. census bureau. And his friends were mostly from former Soviet republics, probably because they had the Russian language in common.
[quote]So, the really important question is does Dzhokhar consider himself "white"?
The signs from his social media profiles are that he does. . Tamerlan also described himself as white to the Asian guy they jacked. So yeah, they considered themselves white, maybe because they ARE white?
- [quote]The parents were involved in a cell and the aunt in Toronto worked with them.
Isn't the aunt a lawyer in Toronto?
- Jahar is so damn hot! I feel sorry for him, what a waste having to be locked up.
- Uncle went to Boston to arrange for burial but no funeral businesses want to handle the details.
- He's a muslin.
Not a Lenin.
- The mother seems like such a domineering force in their lives. So she arranged a marriage for Dzhokhar? Forced Tamerlane to return to the U.S. when he wanted to stay in Dagestan for good?
- Their mother is a weird creature. But the FBI has nothing on her or they'd have kept her in the US for more interrogation etc. Wouldn't they?
Been following this case thoroughly since the bombing first occured. The horrors of the bombing and the intense speculation about every little detail got to me, but now the news updates have died down a little. So in the meantime, if I have to get worked up over it, I guess I'll just get worked up over Dzhokhar's cute appearance. Much more relaxing than focusing on the terrorist side of him all the time. He's safely locked up awaiting a cruel fate no matter which way it goes.
I believe there's a hearing on May 30th by the way.
- Hilarious thread: Some poor, lone, hysterical guy thinking he can arbitrarily redraw the markers of what constitutes "whiteness" therefore starting in 2013, start excluding people from the caucuses, even though the entire world knows they're white, because he hopes to disown a couple of terrorist brothers from his race? Ludicrous!
What now? Are we to start believing even though the world knows otherwise, that Stalin who was from Georgia, in the south caucuses, south of Dagestan and Chechnya, wasn't white but Middle Eastern? The stupidity I sometimes encounter on this site never fails boggle.
Chechens, like Georgians, and other Caucasians are white. It can't be changed.
- Dzhokhar Tsarnaev was found not guilty and set free!!! #FreeJahar
- Racial classifications are arbitrary. Therefore, they have been changed many times and will likely continue to change in the future. However, at this present time, individuals with the bomber's ancestry would be considered white. Although, I'm not sure why that matters.
- Robel Phillipos out on $100,000 bail. Life ruined over a simple lie.
- R68. Ask the unbalanced twit who starting at r21 inexplicably went nuts over the brothers being called "white" when they actually are. He could one of those old geezers who think only WASPs should be considered white.
- Robel Phillipos will wear an ankle bracelet and be in the custody of his mother. How is he facing a longer sentence than the the Kazakhs who are the ones who actively tampered with evidence?
"I don't know whether I should talk or stay silent."
"I don't want to harm my child."
Obviously, you did, a long time ago.
"We are used to all sorts of things here but we didn't expect this from the United States."
Because you're a dumb shit.
- The mother must have encouraged Tamerlan if they actually discussed jihad on the phone.
- Earlier photos of the mother shows her with makeup and hair uncovered. She only found religion shortly before returning to Dagestan around the same time as Tamerlan. I wonder if that mystery Armenian, Misha is connected to their radicalisation.
- They are not white, not in the classic sense of white. As far as Cher and the Kardashians - they look Middle Eastern to me, except for Khloe's current incarnation but then again, who watches Kartrashian shows? Hint, I only see people on the urban blogs talking about the actual SHOWS that they do & are fans. They're not black but imho, they will probably move to BET soon since their popularity is drying up.
As far as Southern Italians, technically yes they're white but some/many are dark as India Indians & look like them too.
And the reason that Gaga, & many ITALIANS are dark was the African influence which is why there's a high preponderance of Lupus in Italian-Americans & Italians in general.
- Dzhokhar's fangirls have made him out to be a Bieber-like figure. I think tween girls are the worst demographic on earth and blight on our culture. From Twilight, to Justin Bieber now claiming a terrorist innocent because they think he's cute.
- Italians are back to not being white "in the classic sense" now? It's true, this thread is hillarious.
- 74. There was something about how both Tamerlan and the mother were influenced greatly by Misha, who came to their house to study the Qu'ran with them. But then it suddenly turned out this Misha guy was completely harmless after all. It's strange. The media made him out to be like a mentor-like figure, but apparently that wasn't the case.
76. Teengirls are not necessarily the worst, they are just incredibly naive. They see the cute boy and they make him into an angel who needs to be saved. I see countless tweets on the Jahar tags about how he's all alone and needs their help, how they have to save him... It's almost like a maternal instinct thing. Many women are into saving men or taming them into becoming angels, I guess. At least those teenage girls are harmless, but it's still alarming how overcome with emotion they are, how they don't listen to reason at all. They just can't seperate looks from actions at all.
- I think r75 is another of those with a problem imagining white people as muslims. If Joe Stalin is white, then they are white. Debate is pointless because they won't suddenly become Middle Eastern because they're not from the Middle East.
Could we please go back to updates about the Tsarnaev's?
- Wow. Poor Cher has been kicked off the white race as well and relegated to Middle Eastern.
So nearly half of Europeans are now no longer white. Eastern Europeans from the Caucuses, Southern France, Spain, Italy, Portugal, Greece and all these mediterraneans are now Middle Eastern.
R75, don't Greeks and Portuguese look Middle Eastern too?
- Joe Stalin is a really good point, he looks like he's part of the Dz/Tamerlan/Cher/Kardashian types. Middle Eastern looking.
There ARE white Muslims, but there just not a lot of them, someone mentioned Bosnia, yes, but that's not a LOT. Most are Middle Eastern looking.
- Any word on the sisters? Who they married and if they're practicing muslims? Wasn't the dad pissed off at Tamerlane for finding religion and quitting boxing?
- The dad and Uncle Ruslan may be secular.
- William Plotnikov was another really good-looking white Muslim. He was technically a convert, but his mother was of Tatar ancestry so he likely had Muslim roots somewhere back.
- I would love to dip my cock in pork fat and fuck that pig bitch like she deserves. Maybe she would finally just shut the fuck up.
- Dzhokhar's twitter has over 100,000 followers. Do they expect him to be tweeting from prison?
- Poor Jahar, hopefully he too will one day be allowed to get on with his life.
- Dzhokhar Tsrnaev's Dark Side, Carefully Masked:
[quote]A second Chechen friend since boyhood, 18-year-old Baudy Mazaev, said that the older brother and their mother, Zubeidat Tsarnaeva, “had a deep religious epiphany” about two or three years ago. At the time, Tamerlan’s new devotion only irritated Dzhokhar, he said.
[quote]about his background except to say that he was Chechen or had lived in Russia. He was popular — “he had a lot of girls hitting on him,” said Junes Umarov, 18, a close friend who is also of Chechen descent — but even other close friends could not say whether he had a girlfriend. Almost no one knew anything about his family beyond a few brief sightings of his older brother, Tamerlan.
[quote]During one visit about two years ago, he said, Tamerlan ordered him and Dzhokhar to sit and forced the two teenagers to read a book about the fundamentals of Islam and prayer. After that, he said, they began avoiding the apartment.
- [quote]He gained American citizenship on Sept. 11, 2012, “and he was pretty excited about it,” said his first-year dorm mate, Mr. Rowe. Yet the previous March, he had written “a decade in america already, I want out,” followed in April by “how I miss my homeland #dagestan #chechnya.” And days before his citizenship ceremony, he expressed wonder at why more people did not realize that the 2001 attack on the World Trade Center “was an inside job.”
- Newly-released picture of Jahar from a few days before the bombings.
- [quote]“he had a lot of girls hitting on him,” said Junes Umarov, 18, a close friend who is also of Chechen descent — but even other close friends could not say whether he had a girlfriend.
- I think this is the first time I've heard of this third person the brothers interacted with shortly before the bombing. They unexpectedly showed up to the gym three days before the bombing with a Chechen-looking Russian speaker. Hmm. The Sun pixelated the face. Hmm. I'd imagine the FBI is looking for this man. Maybe it's one of the younger brother's friends.
- All this white v. non-white nonsense reminds of the old days with South Africa.
Back when the Japanese were the big money guys all over the world, South Africa had a problem. Japanese people were categorized as non-white and therefore subject to apartheid restrictions and laws (although not as many as black people). The Japanese had more money than anyone else, they were spending it like water all over the world, and South Africa wanted some. The white, apartheid government suddenly decided that Japanese people were white and changed their apartheid categories to reflect that.
Which just goes to show you that these racial categories are ridiculous. They are always irrational and punitive. They can be, and are, changed at will.
But I digress from the funniest thing about this thread - the looney toons racist fucktard insisting that Chechens aren't white.
I'm waiting for him to declare that Timothy McVeigh wasn't white (or American) either because, as we all know, white Americans cannot be terrorists.
- Harks back to the days when all those dagos (Italians, Spaniards, Portuguese, Greeks) weren't considered white. This in 2013. Un-fucking-believable.
- I really don't understand these protesters' refusal to have Tamerlane buried in the U.S. One of the signs reads: "Bury this terrorist on U.S. soil and we will unbury him".
The man is DEAD. What more do they want? No one interfered with Timothy McVeigh's or Adam Lanza's funerals; this sort of ugliness from regular folk is very sad.
- 95. Exactly. What the hell is the point in exacting revenge on a corpse? How will that make anyone feel better about what happened? People should focus more on love, dignity and unity in times like these.
I've commented this before I think, but it really tells the difference in how America reacts to tragedies as opposed to other countries, well, at least Scandinavian countries.
I was in Norway when the 22 july attacks happened with 77 dead. Most of those were teenagers. They were the most idealistic and positive of teenagers. After the attacks, the survivors focused on comforting and helping each other, on showing love to each other, they said to the media that hate is good for nothing, hate only breeds hate, and that love is what they need to help each other move on. People held roses in the streets, united in grief, not divided by it... I've never seen anything more beautiful. There was no talk of revenge, only justice.
Obviously people are allowed to be angry too.
But in this case it's a goddamn corpse. This is disgusting behavior. Signs with pictures of his bloodied corpse and countless American flags... Ugh. How is that civilized?
And the only ones who actually suffer from this whole thing is not Tamerlan's corpse, it's his living friends and relatives who had nothing to do with it. They need closure.
- I cannot believe that no one in that family wants to retrieve the body of Tamerlan. I know he was guilty as shit and a total waste of humanity, but he was their son/nephew/cousin. It shows what a f'ing mess that family is.
I think they should just take the body and drop it into the Atlantic. Problem solved.
- They are Turkic, probably with some Iranian heritage as well.
- It's not quite the right analogy, R96. The Norwegian teens were killed by a lunatic Norwegian. A more apt analogy with the Norwegian shooting would be the Sandy Hook shooting, where American school kids were killed by an American lunatic.
In the case of the Tsarnaevs, they were taken into America as refugees. but they traveled back and forth to Dagestan, said some anti-American things and are viewed as foreigners who came here to kill Americans. They have said 9/11 was an inside job. There is the matter of the triple homicide on 9/11/11. At least two of the murdered men were Jewish and all three had their throats slit and were nearly decapitated. At the time, one of the officers at the scene said it looked like a killing straight out of an Al Qaeda training video. If committed by the Tsarnaevs, those murders have international significance. One of the murdered Jewish pot dealers talked about how he sent a lot of money to Israel.
While I agree that desecrating a dead body is pointless, I'm guessing these people are talking of exhuming Tsarnaev because of videos of American and other Western corpses being desecrated by Muslims. Benghazi come to mind, as well as the Iraqi desecration of the bodies of contractors, the Russian beheadings in Chechnya, Daniel Pearl and the Somalis who dragged around the bodies in the Black Hawk incident. My guess is that they want to "give them a taste of their own medicine."
- 99. Sure, but it still doesn't change the fact that the Norwegians reacted way differently in the face of a tragedy than Americans. So many Americans will always shout for blood no matter what.
Of course Tamerlan being a non-American jihadi terrorist makes everything worse. But it's exactly the reason why I wish for dignity. Americans are supposed to be better than the enemies, who are apparently supposed to be savages, all of them, after all. And yet the behavior of those protesters tells me otherwise.
While I don't like with what those muslims do with Western corpses and I understand the outrage, remember that they're in countries riddled with war. There have been at least one documented incident of American soldiers pissing on Taliban soldiers while laughing. I saw a Danish documentary film following Danish soldiers in Afghanistan where similar things happened, the soldiers cracked jokes about it.
And that's the point; they're in war. Many of them NEED to dehumanize their enemies in order to be capable of what they're doing. They're there to fight and kill, and I can't blame them for having to change who they are to deal with it, to deal with having killed someone. That's also why I can understand the muslims doing what they do to the corpses. It's war.
But I'd expect more from Americans at home in America.
- [quote] 99. Sure, but it still doesn't change the fact that the Norwegians reacted way differently in the face of a tragedy than Americans.
Not really. Once again -- the Sandy Hook parents reacted the same way the Norwegians did. Go back and look. They did not call for exhuming and desecrating Adam Lanza's body. Many cited forgiveness.
Neither the Norwegian killer nor Adam Lanza were viewed as the "other" by their respective societies.
The Boston bombings were committed by people who were given refuge by America and they hate America and Americans. To many people, the bombers are the "other." They're not autistic; they're not schizoids who latched onto Nazism. They're not mentally ill. They're both capable of holding jobs, having families and blending in. But they chose not to and that is the difference between this case and the Norwegian case. The Norwegian killer was not a man from a wholly different culture, country and religion who was offered refuge by Norway and then turned against Norwegians. He was a familiar figure - an unstable fellow countrymen. People understood that his craziness was his motive.
So you -- once again -- cannot compare the Boston bombing with the Norwegian shooting. The Norwegian shooting's equivalent was Sandy Hook, not Boston.
The Boston bombing's equivalent is any terrorist act committed by foreigners who were offered refuge by the host country, with benefits and advantages they could not even dream of in their home country. And in repayment, they killed the people who took them in. Sacco and Vanzetti would be an apt equivalent. Or an Irishman living in England who took part in the London bombing campaign.
But not Norway. It's apples and oranges and cannot be compared.
Nobody wanted to kill the immigrant Asian V Tech student who shot and killed so many people. It was the act of a madman, not the act of a sane, calculating person who wanted to kill people specific to his cultural or political cause. Get it? When it's a deliberate political/religious act committed by sane people from another country aimed specifically at people who are different culturally/racially/religious/country of origin, it's a different kind of act. That's why the feeling, in this case, is different.
Also, the media is deliberately looking to inflame their audiences in an attempt to keep the story on the front pages. They want you to "stay tuned" to their channel for the trial. So they are not looking, at this point, for the peaceful candle light memorial. They are looking for headlines, and they are getting their headlines from a minority of kooks. The majority of people are not about to exhume a corpse and desecrate it in any fashion. The majority are the people who took part in the candle light memorials.
- I see your point, but I still don't fully agree. Everytime there's a killer, too many Americans are always shouting for revenge and the death penalty (and those people don't buy insanity as an excuse, ever, they're not interested in understanding, they just want the offender dead). It's not just the protesters on TV, this kind of thought process is everywhere, disgusting comments are everywhere. Maybe the protesters are the some of the few ones who would actually go through with it, but the thought process is there in too many people.
The Norwegian terrorist wasn't insane, he DID have a political goal. He specifically targeted the Labour party and its youth wing. The right wingers could've used that chance to further their agenda, "See? This is what happens when we have these and these policies!" But they didn't. There was unity and dignity in the face of the tragedy, unlike in America where everybody immediately jumps to conclusions and makes it political and hate-filled. Which is why I agree fully with that last part, yeah. The American audience is way too easily inflamed by the media.
- [quote] The dad and Uncle Ruslan may be secular.
Uncle Ruslan is an oil executive who is mixed up in a money-laudering scheme with a Kazak billionaire. Uncle Ruslan will be whatever the FBI and CIA tell him to be. He wants immunity and he'll likely get it.
- I think r102 is right. There's a vindictive, merciless streak in America that is not as prevalent in other western or westernised societies. A lack of compassion that ever so often reaches these levels.
Barbaric behaviour. The woman with the sigh threatening to exhume the body looks like somebody's mom.
- Marathon Suspect’s Body Is Ready for Burial. The Question Remains: Where?
- Dzhokhar has told interrogators his sister-in-law Katherine Russell was not in any way involved in the Boston marathon bombings.
- Tamerlan's widow, Katherine Russell, has hired a lawyer known for defending terrorism cases as she continues to face questioning from federal authorities. Did she know something?
- Boston bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev, killed in a shootout with police days after the blast, has been buried at an undisclosed location, police in Worcester, Mass., said Thursday.
- So someone was finally brave enough to take on the job to bury him.
"The funeral director, whom some people have called "un-American" for being willing to handle Tsarnaev's funeral, has said he has a professional obligation.
"We take an oath to do this. Can I pick and choose? No. Can I separate the sins from the sinners? No," Stefan said. "We are burying a dead body. That's what we do.""
- Much respect to that funeral director. Showed real decency and humanity even under pressure from people behaving like animals.
- I read that the official announcement was that he had been "entombed." That's kind of a strange word to use if he had been buried. Maybe someone had a place in a mausoleum where he could be discreetly "entombed" and where there would be limited access, etc., so as not to allow desecration, etc.
- I think Muslims have to be buried in the ground. His casket may be in a burial vault which is basically a container for the casket. The probably got something extra sturdy to try to prevent desecration should the location become known.
1. to place in or as if in a tomb; bury; inter
2. to serve as a tomb for
A funeral home released this news. It is typical of how they phrase things. Entomb sounds better hence why they use entomb instead.
- Boston Police say FBI did not tell them about the warning from Russia about Tamerlan. I wonder if they were dismissive of the Russians because they felt Chechnya is not an American problem.
- Will the trial be secret? There are other cases like Bradley Manning and the underwear bomber I was hoping to follow as well.
- Still no sign of a real girlfriend for Jahar.
- [quote]There ARE white Muslims, but there just not a lot of them, someone mentioned Bosnia, yes, but that's not a LOT. Most are Middle Eastern looking.
Most Albanians are also Muslim and white.
- As per the NYT, Tamerlan spoke of his interest in jihad while in Russia last year.
- New video of Jahar dancing!
- I don't see why he couldn't be buried in Dearborn, Michigan or some other completely Muslim area of the US.
- He looks like Horshack in that video
- Full boxing interview with Tamerlan Tsarnaev.
Notice how he says "What do you mean?" when asked where he's from...
- Tamerlan's death certificate at link.
This may be a dumb question, the blunt trauma to his head and torso from being hit by the SUV, was Tamerlan sitting up when he was hit?
- Earth Refuses To Decompose Tamerlan Tsarnaev
- Unless a group of Americans have torn his body apart, I've yet to see such angry mean Americans r104 and others speak of. Words are one thing, actions are another. Last time I checked, Americans don't drag corpses behind them in a car, as we have seen other nations do.
- r124 I inadvertently saw Tamerlan's body post-mortem. Someone on twitter had that image in their gallery. His bodies was very much battered. There's a huge gash on the side of his abdomen and his face took the brunt of it.
- r126 Mr. Stefan, the undertaker in MA, had 24/7 protection because he was getting death threats. The crowd were protesting him for wanting to bury a decomposing body.
It may not rise to the level of black hawk down, but you can certainly say those were "angry mean Americans."
- The twits at tumblr are writing Jahar letters now.
- No, R126, Americans don't drag corpses behind them in a car, just live people.
- R129, what, they really accept letters? He is allowed to receive letters...?
- If he's really guilty and was trying to prove something, receiving letters from all these girls saying they believe in his innocence would be a form of torture.
- R132, yeah, that's actually pretty funny.
He was arrogant, like his brother. He had a roaring lion as his twitter profile picture, the lion is a respected creature in many Islamic countries, apparently, and some Islamic hero from the 1800s was called the Lion of Dagestan. Dzhokhar tweeted something about "these frail ass kids think they can take me, little do these dogs know they're barking at a lion".
Both Tamerlan and Dzhokhar were arrogant losers in search for glory. They wanted to be lions.
I really hope he'll at least cringe a little reading through those letters filled with "oh jahar don't cry, we'll rescue you, you must be so sad and all alone, you're too cute to be a jihadist"...
- I don't know, that's what they're saying R131.
- [quote]ittle do these dogs know they're barking at a lion".
Common saying in many parts of the world, usually meant as a threat.
- My God: if this is true ...
[bold]ABC News reports that law enforcement officials have collected "mounting evidence" connecting the Boston bombing suspects to a 2011 triple murder[/bold]
Jahar may not be just a gentle misled stoner. What will the tumblr girls do now?
- [quote]Now law enforcement officials tell ABC News that some crime scene forensic evidence provided a match to the two Tsarnaev brothers [Tamerlan Tsarnaev and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev]. The officials also said records of cell phones used by the Tsarnaevs appears to put them in the area of the murders on that date.
[quote]Now law enforcement officials tell ABC News that some crime scene forensic evidence provided a match to the two Tsarnaev brothers [Tamerlan Tsarnaev and Dzhokhar Tsarnaev]. The officials also said records of cell phones used by the Tsarnaevs appears to put them in the area of the murders on that date.
- R136, that's already been made a thread about, but whatever.
Yeah, that's really fucked up.
From the info we've gotten about Dzhokhar until now, he seemed to resist Tamerlan's islam obsession and thought it was "annoying", according to his friends, and it seemed like he only became radicalized recently, in 2013, when he started studying Chechnya...
but apparently he was capable of slashing people's throats already in 2011.
IF it turns out he took part in it. They still haven't gotten the DNA evidence
- I'm R138 and I retract my last statement there. They already have the DNA then. Damn, that changes things...
- [quote]Last time I checked, Americans don't drag corpses behind them in a car, as we have seen other nations do.
I've felt all along that he should be treated in an Islamic manner. People lost their legs from his bomb so he should have his legs ripped off. Since he placed the bomb, he should have his hands chopped off. And just for good measure, drag him behind a pick-up truck, one mile for every person he killed. Since he hates America, give him Islamic-style justice so he'll feel that comfort.
- That Dzhokhar may have been a ruthless killer even before the bombings is really shocking. In hindsight, no one, even the so-called friends who were defending him, knew anything about his private life.
- Some guy claiming to know Jahar is answering questions: Apparently, he longed to move back to Chechnya. So much for being Americanised.
- At least Tamerlan has radical Islam driving his thoughts and deeds; what was Jahar's excise? I fear HE may be the psychopath, not Tamerlan.
- I agree, Dzhokhar is the scary one. The kind of psychopath you see on Discover I.D. misleading everyone around him despite being a coldblooded killer. If there's DNA evidence linking him to the 2011 murders, then he's toast.
- Tamerlan may have deliberately involved his brother in the murder to ensure his complicity in future attacks. Jahar was smoking dope and it looked like he was leaving Islam behind.
Tamerlan may have used these murders to graphically illustrate what happens to those who aren't believers. Imagine going to what you think is a dope buy and seeing your brother slaughter your dealers...Jahar would have been around 16 or so I guess?
- [quote]In hindsight, no one, even the so-called friends who were defending him, knew anything about his private life.
NYTimes had an article about that.
- r145 still making excuses for Dzhokhar. As for leaving Islam behind, central Asia, from Afghanistan has a serious problem with heroin, opium and lots of these same muslims openly smoke pot.
The only thing Dzhokhar was leaving behind was America as he planned to move back to Chechnya. People get more nostalgic for their homeland as they grow into adulthood.
- Is Jahar being charged only with the marathon bombing, not for killing the MIT cop, the carjacking, or the shootout with the cops?
- From r142
[bold]how was tamerlan protective?[/bold]
hated that jahar smoked cigarettes
[bold]if you could say one thing to jahar, what would it be?[/bold]
i know you didnt do it, your parents know, the FBI knows, the government knows....roll up
[bold]have you lost any friends for supporting jahar?[/bold]
yes i have
[bold]did jahar talked about his aims for the future ?[/bold]
he wanted to move back to chechnya
[bold]what ehtnicity was the girl he kinda wanted to marry? [/bold]
i think she was chechnean too she was white very pretty
[bold]why did he like cars if he wasn't a good driver? [/bold]
he wasnt a bad driver just drove fast and reckless
[bold]Why do you answer 'penis' when your asked about jahar a religion[/bold]
the nigga was muslim alright he was a normal teen his parents were really religious just like mine im not hiding his faith
[bold]Can you elaborate on when Jahar mentioned that Tamerlan was being followed by the fbi?
he said it jokingly jahar always found certain things about the government fishy[/bold]
[bold]Did he speak with you in Russian?I mean have you ever heard him speaking Russian?:) [/bold]
yes he did and yes he spoke it all the time with dias and aza
[bold]was the marriage arranged by his mom? [/bold]
it was arranged or soon to be atleast...i wanted to go :(
- I thought he was being charged with everything, r148.
Most people are saying he followed his brother around, but I remember someone saying that Tamerlan wasn't smart enough to pull this thing off, so maybe Jahar really was the mastermind.
Wonder if he will take a cue from Jodi Arias and start tweeting again from behind bars?
- Fun picture.
- R149: I was about to post that! I like how he wouldn't get into how they made money. FBI is gonna pay him a visit.
God love the Internet!
Tameran: Even jihadists didn't want him.
He greased his hair with olive oil and wore dark eye makeup, apparently in an effort to affect contemporary jihadist fashion, according to Mohamad Magomedov, who struck up a friendship with him at the mosque. That look isn't popular in more-traditional Dagestan.
- R147: From what I've read, the guy never stepped foot in Chechnya.
Jahar was the scarier of the two. The mofo smirking in the marathon picture, acted normal at school, and then ran his brother over. Damn
- Are there any shirtless pics of Jahar (not counting the arrest photo)?
- OMG, r151. I had never seen the pic before. That is actually the hottest picture I have seen of him, what a cutie, YUM!
- If I was on the jury I would never vote to convict him, if he was going to get the death penalty or life in prison. That is too harsh a sentence.
- Something fishy about that r152.
- A little more: I think the Ethiopian kid Robel is the only one who deserves any sort of sympathy here. Probably got involved without wanting to and now he's facing a longer sentence than the Kazakhs who actually got rid of evidence.
[bold]Were you and Robel close?[/bold]
closer to robel than jahar
[bold]What is Robel like? [/bold]
best guy ever funny as hell extremely lazy and was finally hitting puberty
[bold]Did you talked to Robel these last days? How is he? [/bold]
no i was advised not too...miss that dude
[bold]are you worried about robel[/bold]
[bold]where the fuck did Tamerlan and Jahar get their money? they had nice cars, dressed well, had iphones and MACs but Tamerlan was unemployed and Jahar was just a student. [/bold]
jahars car wasnt nice though...lol
[bold]Were Tamerlan and Jahar drug dealers? Is that why you can't say where they got their money?[/bold]
[bold]still where the fuck did they get money if they didn't have jobs? [/bold]
cant disclose that lol
The FBI must be on to their source of cash already.
- What's this business about nine cars?
- r156 you're one of the reasons why voir dire is so necessary,
- [quote]I thought he was being charged with everything, [R148].
I thought so too, but the criminal complaint only list:
-- One count of using and conspiring to use a weapon of mass destruction (namely, an improvised explosive device or IED) against persons and property within the United States resulting in death.
-- One count of malicious destruction of property by means of an explosive device resulting in death.
That's after explaining everything that happened over the week.
- Could someone please explain why Jahar and his friends like to call themselves "nigga"?
Is this what all of the white kids are saying these days?
It all seems so silly and a bit offensive.
- R162, He apparently had a lot (perhaps even mostly) of black and "non-white" friends.
- Jahar and his friends were into hip-hop. I hear white kids use "nigga" as well and it's not cool.
- The woman who made it possible for Tamerlan's body to be buried has no regrets despite the backlash. Remarkable woman: she took it upon herself when she heard of the problems with cemeteries rejecting the body.