Edmund White - "I’m all for barebacking. It’s pleasurable"
Question - How do you feel about barebacking today?
Answer - Well, I’m positive and have been for years and if I’m with someone who is also positive, I’m all for barebacking. It’s pleasurable. I don’t believe in re-infecting somebody. But if somebody is negative or doesn’t know, I practice safe sex. Barebacking is obviously more fun and more natural. But it’s not ethical with people who are negative.
"I'LL NEVER STOP MISCONSTRUING SOMEONE'S QUOTES FOR A SENSATIONAL HEADLINE," vows OP.
Consider that for every person reading this - and almost every person alive - that person represents a single act of bareback sex. "Bareback sex" which used to be referred to as "sex".
So he's obviously an ill-informed or willfully ignorant idiot, but so what, it's his writing that's important, right? Too bad he's a shitty, shitty writer, too. He and Cunningham would never have gotten a second look if they didn't write about men who suck dick and the women who inspire them. Just awful. When will we have a competent--I don't even need brilliant--contemporary gay American novelist?
I almost hooked up with him. I knew he had a partner though, and that he was into barebacking. The idea of sex with someone important to the gay literary world appealed to me, and I also liked mature bearish guys. Ultimately I declined, I think I made the right decision. I would have insisted on condoms anyway.
R3 those are his words. What is misleading about it?
Educate yourself or give up your queer card.
Edmund White is a heavy weight
I think we're all aware of where babies come from, R4. Not really sure what your post has to do with the topic at hand.
R7? Cupcake? Research the concept of "context". That's your homework for today. Run along now.
White's literary qualities aside, what's remotely controversial about that statement, OP?
Comment from the article above
The article quotes quotes Edmund White as saying that barebacking is not ethical with people who are negative. I agree, but the AIDS activists at the AIDS Committee of Toronto (ACT) and AIDS Action Now do not. Those AIDS lobbyists believe that HIV-positive people should be able to have unsafe sex with an HIV-negative person without disclosing their HIV status and without being subject to any criminal, legal, or social sanction. It's good when ACT and AIDS Action Now are rebuked for their unethical positions that cause harm.
Menigitis, here I cum!!!
Edmund, happily taking dirty jizz up his hole.
R14 tell that to R3 and R10
From another article White says
[quote] my partner, who is 25 years younger than I am, has another boyfriend, who’s 10 years younger than he is. You know how complicated gay life is.
[quote]Menigitis, here I cum!!!
You can get Meningitis from kissing too. A condom won't help you.
Good question, R5. I do think that Richard McCann and Andrew Holleran are both exquisitely talented gay male writers. They're in a similar age group to White and Cunningham.
I ran across a new journal of gay men's fiction called "Jonathan" that features several emerging writers who showed some promise. You should check it out. There is a very active gay literary journal and small press community that happens to be thriving at the moment. Many of these writers need to be discovered.
Why should I take seriously an opinion by someone who hired a Latvian S&M rent boy to treat him like a dog (literally)?
Wow OP could give the National Enquirer a run for its money with sensationalist out of context quotes. You can't just cherry pick that bit considering what else he said, there's no story you could possibly craft at all here. R11 is correct.
I was all set to make fun of him after I saw him on google, but now I can't! An intellectual like him wouldn't just say something like that out of the blue. Ethical was the key word.
Apparently he's too stupid to know that there are different strains of the virus and barebacking, even with someone who's HIV+ possibly exposes you and your partner to another strain on top of what you already have. Plus, it clearly increases the viral load in the receptive partner's body.
Stupid cock knocker!
I never liked his work. It was weird for me, but I couldn't get it. It was deeply non-erotic, maybe it was suppose to be non-erotic, but always, it left me cold. I read both A Boy's Own Story and The Beautiful Room Is Empty. It was so earnestly queer.
I love OP posting all wide-eyed and innocent @R7, like the idea of deliberately taking someone's words out of context in order to spark controversy has never once crossed his beautiful mind. Why, she's so previous she doesn't even understand the concept! Poor, innocent little lamb!
I've never gotten White's work, either. I think it's very much a product of it's time/generation in that it's simultaneously deeply conservative in style (sooooo decorous) and almost juvenile in its "first generation after Stonewall" frankness about sex to a point that makes it almost tedious. His Parisian/Genet crap is just pretentious.
He also cares nothing for other writers, other than to ask how big their dicks are. Several gay writers have told me this--he makes a big issue out of gossiping about it, like a schoolgirl.
His work does feel like more intellectual festooning than true emotion. But I don't dig any sorta queercore work, and for some reason I would class Edmund White as queercore. I hated Hollinghurst's the Swimming Pool Library too.
Would you rather be barebacked by Edmund White, David Sedaris or Brett Easton Ellis?
I think of Queercore stuff being a lot younger than White, at least a generation or so. Dennis Cooper is probably the oldest of what I'd call Queercore--White is more the Violet Quill type, those rather precious writers like Felice Picano, who were notable mostly for being out.
R27, do you consider Andrew Holleran precious?
OP, you didn't think to put this first part in your headline?
[quote]if I’m with someone who is also positive
I didn't like Felice Picano, either, R27, until Like People in History, and that was a really good book.
Holleran...oh my. I read Dancer and (Kramer's) Faggots the year they came out, 1978, and I was afraid...so afraid.
Old guys lose sensitivity "down there" and will engage in risky beahvior to avoid "wearing a raincoat" and not being able to cum. Or they just become bottoms.
They probably think, "How many years do I have left anyway? May as well have fun".
[quote] Barebacking is obviously more fun and more natural.
AIDS is all natural too! No artificial ingredients!
We're all going to die. Who cares if its by heart attack, cancer, aids, aneurysm, renal failure, accident, or murder? We're all going to die. We may as well enjoy our lives while we're here. I bareback and if I die tomorrow who cares? I'll die of something anyways.
[quote] like the idea of deliberately taking someone's words out of context in order to spark controversy
Next time someone on DL takes a right winger or a Republicans' words out of context, I'll bring up this thread to see how much outrage there is.
r33 is filling out his Social Security/Disability, and ADAP forms as he types!
"I don't believe in re-infection"
Sorry, miss, but it's a scientific fact and so you don't have an option of "not believing in it." Many poz people have infections that are well controlled by their existing cocktail, and to introduce a new strain to a weakened body that may be beyond the parameters of their current regimen risks making quick death for them.
So I can't give him a pass because sex is not about his beliefs but about facts.
[quote]Edmund White is a heavy weight
In so many senses of the term.
You beat me to it, R37.
He's now morbidly obese. He's also obsessed with being remembered as The Great Gay Author, and is sucking up to all the straight mainstream authors and officials in the literary world.
I know we're supposed to appreciate his work, but really; he got in on the ground floor of the gay lit wave, didn't die, and will endure, provided he doesn't have another stroke.
R38 it blows my mind that he is a three-way relationship. him, his bf and the bf's bf!
What he looked like back in the day, at his hottest:
You are an idiot if you think just because you are positive you can fuck other POS guys bareback without any more infection.
It's a fact that their variations even within one strain and there are several strains. This is how drug resistance is started.
One guy burns out drug A, sleeps with guy who burned out Drug B. Then one of then bare backs a neg guy who turns POS. New POS guy cant be start drug therapy because the strain he got is already resistant to drugs A and B.
Damn, he is fat - just like Maupin
Ignorance of reinfection owing to the multiple and practically discrete forms of HIV is a serious problem. Naturally, specifics of viral load and susceptibility (genetic or related to tissue vulnerability) are involved, and incidence likely follows rates for first-infection.
But calling names here - and thinking that HIV+ people who fuck without a condom necessarily will be deterred by correction of misconception - is not helpful.
How could anyone find his butt hole to fuck him?
In other words, all this talk about barebacking is theoretical. He would be doing it if he were still getting it.
I liked his Paris work, and his work on gay cities in the US was amusing, if not always correct. But the coming of age fiction he did I didn't really get into. Somehow it was all tied up in a masochistic aesthetic.
Is "re-infection" or "super infection" proved?
[quote]But the coming of age fiction he did I didn't really get into. Somehow it was all tied up in a masochistic aesthetic.
So to speak.
'Terre Haute' was good, saw it off-West End. Plus points for annoying Vidal so much. (Girls, girls, you're both famous gay authors!)
EW's interesting as a provocative gossipy clever prolific survivor, bearing witness to a seismic time. The body of work is as notable as any particular book. 'My Lives' though might be his best.
Yes, R52. For a good decade. Research has since moved on to measuring prevalence and characterizing it.
I like his autobiographies. I can't get into his fiction.
[quote]do you consider Andrew Holleran precious?
I only read "Dancer From the Dance" and did find it precious, yes, like the mopey gay offspring or F. Scott Fitzgerald and Rosemary Rogers.
I, too, read "Faggots" around the same time, and found that at least funny. I appreciated how irreverent it was, even if that irreverence was aimed at the book's own audience. I frankly think that too more spine than the weepy "Dancer" did. That remains one of the few books I threw across the room upon completion.
I'd like to add here that I have no need for anyone to agree with these opinions, and don't insist they do. Art isn't objective, but I realize I might be attacked anyway.
Holleran is a good writer, though a bit depressing.
Did anyone think Giovanni's Room was very homophobic. I have some friends who hate it on that premise, but I never thought so.
R46, you are an idiot.
You are going to die. I am going to die. Edmund White is going to die. In fact, everyone reading this thread is going to die.
So what. It's the quality of the journey from birth to grave that counts, not how old you are.
I forget, though, this is a puritanical country. So there is that...
[quote]You are going to die. I am going to die. Edmund White is going to die. In fact, everyone reading this thread is going to die.
r61 is obviously a Paul Morris fan.
That one is going to die doesn't mean one must embrace poor choices regarding one's health. New drugs notwithstanding, the end isn't pretty or pleasant. Sure, everyone will die, but why do so in an excruciating way that you can at least try to avoid?
Because, to paraphrase David Andrusia, as the Spanish believe, our whole purpose for being here is to fuck. It's the pinnacle - maybe not for everyone, but for most people in most every place, sex is life's trump card - the answer to Bernard Lewis or Syvia Plath.
Many of those gay writers from the Stonewall generation were/are quite a bit precious and their novels haven't held up so well: White and Holleran are prime examples. Certainly White is miles better than some of the gay novelists who succeeded him (like David Leavitt), but his prose was always so derivative and self-enamored. I agree his autobiographies are much better than his novels (particularly the early ones, which were much too highly praised when they came out).
I'm not sure why his quote is an issue.
He's clearly outlined his beliefs about it and as far as I can tell, he's being ethical about instances where he barebacks and where he does not.
[quote]Because, to paraphrase David Andrusia, as the Spanish believe, our whole purpose for being here is to fuck
An argument based upon reproduction. The "point" of the sex drive is to pass on your genetic material, which we don't do. So perhaps it's best not to even venture down that road...
[quote]Many of those gay writers from the Stonewall generation were/are quite a bit precious and their novels haven't held up so well: White and Holleran are prime examples.
I agree. "The Violet Quill" group put out some sheer dreck. Especially Felice Picano, who is unreadable.
[quote]An argument based upon reproduction. The "point" of the sex drive is to pass on your genetic material, which we don't do. So perhaps it's best not to even venture down that road...
I don't fuck because I want kids any more than I eat because I want to take a shit.
[quote]Because, to paraphrase David Andrusia, as the Spanish believe, our whole purpose for being here is to fuck
"The Spanish" do not really believe that. That's a ridiculous and false generalization.
[quote]I don't fuck because I want kids any more than I eat because I want to take a shit.
So you consider your sex drive to be entirely volitional? Sorry, but it's something all animals have, and only humans delude themselves into thinking it's something they came up with on their own.
I was very remotely acquainted with Picano when I worked for one of his publishers, and his self-regard is formidable. He never tired of carrying on about how young gay writers failed to pay proper tribute to the bold trailblazers who preceded them, like White, Holleran, Ferro...and himself. Actually, he was usually higher on the list of bold trailblazers than that.
White pretentious? Oh you little snowflake, you have no idea what formidable intellectuals were in the Stonewall generation. Compared to them, White is an illiterate Kardashian.
If you want gay literati, try reading Marc Daniel or Rictor Norton.
[quote]our whole purpose for being here is to fuck
I love sex and enjoy it often, with many variations, with varied partners, buddies and tricks through the years...but this statement is asinine.
When you have a friend in need, suicidal, destitute and crying for help...do you try to help him or try to fuck him?
It's Election Day and there's a ballot measure to ban marriage equality in your state...do you vote or spend the day at the bathhouse?
Your mother is dying, she's in the hospital, on her deathbed, and time is running out. Do you visit her or hop on a plane because you've already booked your latest circuit party jaunt?
One way or another, a new person comes into your life. He's smart, funny, helpful and compassionate. You share several interests and many mutual friends. He seems to enjoy talking to you when your paths cross, but you can't get away fast enough. Why? Because he's unattractive and you know you'll never fuck him. What's the point to platonic friendships when life is just about fucking?
I know these are extreme but...really? Life is just fucking, fucking, fucking? Like any addiction or obsession, that doesn't really sound like a good life. It sounds sad and empty, shallow and fucked up. No wonder you're poz.
R69 - for someone with such a provocative name, you sure are a downer.
I liked James Baldwin work. Yes Giovanni's Room was riddled with internalized homophobia, or that should be the characters, and even if it was more the book it was written in 1956. Very daring for it's time. It was only 6 years earlier that Van Druten had his gays hidden in the disguise of witches in Bell, Book and Candle.
[quote]Oh you little snowflake, you have no idea what formidable intellectuals were in the Stonewall generation.
Such as? We're talking gay intellectuals, remember, who wrote about being gay. And I would consider Vidal and Baldwin both pre-Stonewall.
PS: I don't know how "little" I am: I'm a 6'2" 47 year-old man.