- So the authorities are thinking that his neck wound may be from a poorly angled shot through the mouth. A botched suicide attempt. They believe it happened at some point in the boat.
- What if he's mentally impaired now?
- Most people's brains are not in their throats. Most likely he's not mentally impaired.
- any more than he was before, R3.
- I'm curious about his friend that swore Jahar couldn't have been the bomber.
Anybody go back and interview that guy?
- Do you know if that boat is for sale? I need one right quick.
- I feel sorry for him, I'm sure this whole was his brother's idea and he was brainwashed into going along.
- [quote]Most people's brains are not in their throats.
Mine tends to alternate between my throat an my hole.
- I thought eating a gun was the surest means of suicide.
- R9 never saw "Fight Club"
- Just putting a gun in your mouth isn't enough, R9, you've got to aim it so it hits your spinal cord or brainstem. How hard can that be with a large-caliber weapon?
I can't believe that stupid fuck missed.
- R7, he was led on by the treachery of others....
- Will they undo the bandages and find Jack Coleman?
- Officials have released a photo of his awesome abs.
- I hope the minute people try to make a victim out of this guy, someone will show pics of the real victims maimed by this asshole.
- Nice undies too.
- The NY Times article where they interview the aunt and uncle in Dagestan -- who claim to be shocked, appalled and in stunnec disbelief that their nephews could be involved in such an act -- did you look at the wall above their heads? Dozens of newspaper photos of men, many of whom appear to be imams. Did anyone bother to ask, "Say, who are the men in all of these newspaper and possible mugshot photos?"
I'm sure they'd say something like, "Oh these guys? They're our wonderful relatives who are also not involved in extremist Muslim violence! We like to have family photos on the wall!"
Clearly, these are not family photos.
I can't link to the NY Times article because the Times has shut me out, saying I've reached my monthly limit.
- Either clear your NYTimes cookies or use another browser, R17
- That's why you don't put the gun in your mouth. You shoot yourself in the temple.
- [quote]I hope the minute people try to make a victim out of this guy, someone will show pics of the real victims maimed by this asshole.
Showing pictures of Tsarnaev's victims does not negate the matter of Jahar's victimhood in this case either. His deranged brother manipulated and coerced this young man into committing one of the most heinous crimes a person can do.
But let's take this into account...the guy is NINETEEN years old. If you take a look at his Twitter account, he is not talking about bringing down imperialist America or calling a jihad. He is tweeting about simple silly things that any American 19 yr old tweets about.
Should he have a lesser sentence because of this? No. Should he have public sympathy? No. But it is worth discussing how much influence the older brother had over him. I highly doubt this 19 yr old was a mastermind in any way. Obviously he was brainwashed.
- Dzhokhar's friends were quite creepy, driving around with TERRORISTA #1 license plates. They all had that creepy Eastern European/Caucasus/Central Asian/Gypsy/South Asian love of all things designer. When they come to the US, they want only designer goods and look down on anyone who is not financially successful as inferior. The worst thing they can say about someone is that they are poor.
The Bokharian Jews (from Central Asia) moved into Queens and promptly tore down Tudor-style homes with grassy yards and trees/bushes, replacing them with garish, outsized buildings and paving over every inch of land in order to better display their Mercedes, BMWs And Lexuses.
It's a "thing" in that part of the world. Muslim, Christian, Jewish, Hindu, Gypsy. This Bukharian house in Forest Hills looks like a gypsy home.
I think Dzhokhar showed one face to his American friends and another face to his fellow immigrant friends. They're all, "yes, we love America! We can be free!" to Americans, but quite different with people from their part of the world, where scheming and bartering and thieving are commonplace things because of the tribal ways people have had for more than a thousand years.
- With the exception of this gem:
[quote]Others noted the domineering affect his older brother seemed to have. Gilberto Junior, owner of Junior Auto Body in Somerville, Mass., who regularly worked on the brothers' cars, said Dzhokhar was sociable when he came in by himself but silent with his brother.
This is a pretty interesting article about the family. It seems that mama was the one who encouraged the older brother to take up religion as she was doing herself. She was concerned about his drinking, smoking, etc. This shift towards conservatism upset the father. It's likely what caused the uncle to pull away from them. Tamerlan was so extreme that he disrupted Friday services at the Cambridge mosque to complain about the iman's sermons a couple of times.
- Sorry, forgot the link
- [quote]"Say, who are the men in all of these newspaper and possible mugshot photos?"
- I keep reading that both of the parents are now in Russia. Is this true? Or does the father have more than one wife?
- Did we allow the mother to leave the US and go to Dagestan after the bombings? If so, why? She should be here, under surveillance.
If she left the US before the bombings, then why? Everyone says the marriage broke up. What need would she have to be in Dagestan when her children are here? Or did the parents and the children expect the brothers would get away with the bombings and return to Dagestan? Sounds to me like maybe the parents were the ones who trained their children to be bombers. The husband returned to Dagestan, then the sons went over for 6 months. For what? Like the father wouldn't have known if they were receiving training? Bullshit. Of course he'd know. Father returns to Dagestan, sets up household, has sons come for training. Sons return to US, go about finding bomb ingredients, testing bombs and getting ready for their big day. Mother returns to Dagestan, awaits sons return after the successful bombings. Sons return, family remains in Dagestan.
The Russians knew what they were up to.
- Where they lived in Dagestan looks like a real hole....and they weren't even from there, having come from Chechnya, living in Kyrgystan, and only living in Dagestan less than a year before going to the US. I suspect daddy was fleeing the law or a vendetta.
- Miami Herald just announced that the bomber is being tried in Federal Court.
- Whoda thunk it that someone could survive such a suicide attempt.
- The whole family emigrated to North America. The mother and father have relatives in the US and Canada. That's kind of unusual, isn't it? That all of these members of the same family were able to emigrate from that one hole in the ground?
- [quote] Where they lived in Dagestan looks like a real hole....and they weren't even from there, having come from Chechnya, living in Kyrgystan
Honey, all of Dagestan, Chechnya and Kyrgystan are one big hole. You can add Ossetia, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Georgia, Armenia, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Turkmenistan and a host of other skeevy places like Albania and rural Bulgaria and Romania.
- And most of russia
- I have to admit I never heard of Dagestan until last week. I found a BBC story in late 2011 calling it the "most dangerous place in Europe" there are bombings and assassinations there all the time. Some place to retire to. The parents said older brother spent "most of his time sleeping" during his 6 month stay there in 2012. I call bullshit on that.
- Look up Ingushetia and South Ossetia. Constant bombings, shootings. Russia wars with Georgia; Georgia wars with South Ossetia; South Ossetia wars with Ingushetia; Chechnya invades Dagestan; South Ossetians go into North Ossetia and war with Ingushetians in North Ossetia.
There's no stopping these people. They've been fighting since the dawn of time. Bandits, thieves, vendettas, feuds, invasions, wars, religion, ethnicities, corruption... It's a shitty part of the world. Google image the names of these countries and see how "beautiful" they are.
- See if this link to the bombers aunt and uncle in Dagestan works. Who are these men whose newspaper photos are on the wall? Uncle Bobo and their crazy cousins? I don't think so. Many look like imams.
- It was mentioned before that the older brother was abusive to the sister. So then the logical conclusion is that he was abusive to Jahar as well. The more one reads into this is becomes crystal clear that the older one was the true monster and tortured his kid brother and twisted his mind so thoroughly that he would feel forced to do such a thing.
- Yes, Dagestan is an incredibly violent place. FC Anzhi is a soccer team in the capital city Makhachkala. It was purchased by one of the new oligarchs and pays millions to lure name coaches and players to the team. The team actually has to train in Moscow and flies in to Makhachkala for matches only. That's over 1,000 miles.
- [quote] The more one reads into this is becomes crystal clear that the older one was the true monster and tortured his kid brother and twisted his mind so thoroughly that he would feel forced to do such a thing.
Nonsense. The whole family is involved in this shit.
Those are photos of Muslim extremists on the wall of the aunt and uncle's house.
The mother and father "broke up," but the mother and father were both in Dagestan together when the bombings took place?
The older son "slept most of the time" when he went to Dagestan for 6 months?
The mother tried to get the older son to be more religious (and she started dressing more religious) because she didn't like that he was drinking and swearing?
These people are all lying their faces off.
The youngest son just happened to be able to appear more Americanized because he was younger when he came here, so he picked up English and pop culture more readily. When the time came and the family told him what to do, he did it.
You don't understand that part of the world. You lie to survive, so you learn to lie very well. They all lie very well. As soon as the patents realized the sons were identified, I'm sure neighbors cell phones were used to call relatives in the US and Canada. "This is our story and we all stick to it. I became more religious, so hubby left to go back to Dagestan. We broke up, yes? Yes, of course! Tamerlane slept the whole time he was in Dagestan! We are peaceful people, the FBI has set us up!"
And of course, all the relatives will express shock, horror and disbelief at what has happened and will denounce the boys. What else could they possibly do? You think they want to be deported to a Russian prison? Hell, no. Denounce, denounce, denounce and praise our adopted countries!
- It's interesting that Uncle Raslan wouldn't say what caused the rift between his family and that of his brothers. He was quite vocal about so much else.
Not my business, I know, and good for him for keeping it private. But he didn't seem to be following the same "They couldn't have done it" line as the other relatives.
- Uncle Ruslan also wouldn't say what he did for a living. "I work."
- Your narrative is as unsubstantiated as anyone else's, R38. It's based on supposition, no?
If your theory is correct, wouldn't it have made more sense to return to Chechnya rather than Dagestan? The family knew the FBI was monitoring on some level, so shouldn't their planning have made more geopolitical sense? While still part of Russia, it's mainly under the control of their strongman Ramzan Kadyrov who would have protected them from the federal authorities.
- These immigrant boys like boxing, dont they?
In the video he shot inside his hut in the mountains of Dagestan last winter, William Plotnikov narrated as he panned from the black flag of jihad to three bearded rebels and their assault rifles.
Then he turned the camera on himself.
“I ask Allah that the next season he’ll give us the opportunity to kill as many kafirs [non-believers] as we can, just to shred them to pieces,” William said. “Allah is almighty.”
Watching the clip on the computer in his apartment north of Toronto last week, Vitaly Plotnikov looked both heartbroken and perplexed. It was hard for him to accept that this was his son.
“It’s just like a different person to me,” he said.
Russian security forces announced last month that they had killed William, a 23-year-old Canadian, during a gun battle in Dagestan. Since then, the Canadian government has been trying to verify the Russians’ account.
But in an interview with the National Post, Mr. Plotnikov confirmed William’s death and spoke for the first time about his son’s rapid transformation from Toronto teenager and champion boxer to Muslim convert and jihadist fighter.
What seemed to amaze Mr. Plotnikov most was how fast it all happened. His son only became interested in Islam in 2009, he said. Within a year, he had left Canada and by July he was dead. He had gone from convert to martyr in less than three years.
He is not the first radicalized Canadian to die under such circumstances, but he is believed to be the first Canadian convert to die fighting in the name of jihad— all the others having been born into their faith. His father said William became so radicalized he did not even consider the other Muslims he met to be true Muslims. He claimed that Canada and the U.S. were a source of evil for Muslims.
“How can the mind of a person be changed in such a short period of time?” Mr. Plotnikov asked inside the York Region apartment where he keeps William’s boxing medals in a copper trophy on a shelf.
Before moving to Canada, the family lived in Western Siberia, where Mr. Plotnikov worked for an oil company. An athlete himself, he introduced his son to boxing at age nine, and William went on to twice win the Russian youth championships.
After losing his oil company job, Mr. Plotnikov found work at a bank but he wanted more than Russia had to offer. He and his wife also wanted to make sure William got a good education, and they were concerned about the gangs that attracted some former Russian athletes, so they decided to fulfill a lifelong dream of emigrating to the West.
Mr. Plotnikov immediately felt at home in Toronto. Soon after arriving, he got a job stocking shelves at a Highland Farms supermarket on Dufferin Street. “I came as though I was born here,” he said, speaking through a Russian interpreter.
The move was more difficult for William. He was 15 and had left his friends. He could not understand why the boys at his new high school wore baggy pants and piercings, and he was turned off by the heavy drinking of the Russian expats he met.
Boris Gitman saw athletic potential in the lanky teen who turned up at his boxing club in Thornhill. “I was impressed. His coach in Russia did a good job,” said Mr. Gitman, who coaches at the European Boxing School.
Tall and skinny, William needed to work on his strength and endurance. “He was not physically strong but he was very, very talented.… Very smart,” Mr. Gitman added. “In boxing, it’s very important to be smart. He understood about boxing a lot and I just knew he needed a couple of years. From my experience I thought he would be a good Olympian.
- Link to the rest of "The Canadian who converted to jihad: Boxer turned militant killed in Dagestan"
- [quote] If your theory is correct, wouldn't it have made more sense to return to Chechnya rather than Dagestan? T
They never lived in Chechnya. Pay attention.
- Had the older brother been successful financially, he would never have been radicalized.
He didn't get to live the American Dream, so he turned against it.
So say I!
- You pay attention or at least try to read, R44. The family is ethnic Chechen, right? They'd moved around several times before and lived places they'd never lived before, right? The point is they would have greater protection from Russian federal authorities in Chechnya because their strongman runs the republic pretty autonomously. In Dagestan, Russia is actively fighting an Islamic insurgency. So now, the family is immediately vulnerable to the Russian feds.
- Agree, r45. He was a loser by all accounts.
- The family did not live in Chechnya.
The family was moved to Kyrgystan after WWII by Stalin. The boys were born in Dagestan and never lived in Chechnya. They were given asylum in the US because ethnic Chechens are supposedly oppressed in Kyrgystan.
Seriously -- pay the fuck attention. The reason they were allowed into the US was specifically because they were ethnic Chechens who didn't live in Chechnya.
- What does the reason for the family's entrance to the U.S. have to do with this discussion? Does it limit where they can return? Or where they can move to within Russia once they're there?
So if the whole family is involved in these terror acts, you think it makes more sense for them to go back to somewhere they [italic]lived before[/italic] as opposed to a place where they have ethnic roots and would be far more protected from Russian federal authorities? Unlike now in Dagestan where they are being questioned by the Russian feds? Or do you somehow think they couldn't move to Chechnya because they had never lived there, despite both republics being part of Russia?
- Are there any gay bars there? My Damron's gay guide to that place only lists the men's room at the train station.
- [quote] What does the reason for the family's entrance to the U.S. have to do with this discussion?
Someone on the board persists in saying that the bombers had lived in Chechnya and could have returned to Chechnya rather than Dagestan if they'd gotten away with the bombing. They never lived in Chechnya and were actually given political asylum in the US because they were Chechens who didn't live in Chechnya. They were refugees, but their family was made to leave Chechnya in the 1940s.
So there you have it. Ethnic Chechens who never lived in Chechnya, they came to America as refugees. They lived in Kyrgyzstan and Dagestan. But not Chechnya.
That's why we are discussing where they are from and why it is relevant to their entry into the US. They are terrorists, after all, and it's better to know the truth about them rather than half-assed suppositions about where they came from. It's like saying Saddam Hussein bombed the WTC or like saying the Tsarnaevs were from the Balkans (which a reporter on TV actually said several times).
- Already, conspiracies. The mind can't accept that two doofuses killed four people, injured hundreds of others and brought an entire city to a stop could've done this alone.
- I never at any point said or thought that the family had lived in Chechnya.
- [quote] So if the whole family is involved in these terror acts, you think it makes more sense for them to go back to somewhere they lived before as opposed to a place where they have ethnic roots and would be far more protected from Russian federal authorities
Now you're being deliberately dense.
This theory is based on on the supposition of the family that the boys would get away with the bombings. The boys thought they were going to get away with it, otherwise they would have been suicide bombers and Jahar would not have returned to school after the bombing as if nothing had happened. They would have no reason to fear Russian authorities. What could tie them to the Boston bombing if the sons had not been identified? Nothing. It would have been a clean getaway. Nobody in tne US thought that the bombings were the work of ethnic Chechens, because Chechens aren't supposed to have a beef with the US.
So the family returns to Dagestan and says, "We didn't like America." Of course, some people in the family and town will know they were a Muslim sleeper cell who did the bombings, but they're not going to tell the Russians. Why would they? The US would never know who did it, nor would the Russians.
But ... They didn't get away with it. They did not factor in all the CCTVs in the area. If they'd lived in London, they would have known to disguise themselves better because London's ubiquitous use of CCTV is well known. But this is the first time the country (and the world, really) has seen what kind of security measures have been put in place since 9/11 in major North American cities. There are far more CCTVs and they are far better than the old bank robber video of yore.
- [quote] I never at any point said or thought that the family had lived in Chechnya.
Yeah. You did.
[quote] Your narrative is as unsubstantiated as anyone else's, [R38]. It's based on supposition, no? If your theory is correct, wouldn't it have made more sense to return to Chechnya rather than Dagestan?
They couldn't "return" to Chechnya because they never lived there.
And how would they get into Chechnya? Fly from Boston to Grozny? Of course not. They had a home and family in Dagestan. Even if they wanted to "emigrate" to Chechnya, they'd have to go first to Moscow first, then on to Chechnya. Not likely, if you weren't born there and never lived there before. There are borders between these countries and quite a lot of suspicion about strangers.
If they wanted to emigrate to Chechnya, they'd return to Dagestan first, get all their papers proving they are ethnic Chechens who were forced into Kyrgyzstan, and ask if they could be allowed into Chechnya. But they couldn't just go from the US directly into Chechnya and set up house.
- No I didn't. If you're referring to this passage that R54 quoted, read it more carefully. I was addressing a probable assumption on your (was it you or someone else? I'm not bothering with trolldar) part that it made more sense for the family to go back to Dagestan (where they had lived before) as opposed to Chechnya where their ethnic roots are (but they'd never lived before).
[quote]So if the whole family is involved in these terror acts, you think it makes more sense for them to go back to somewhere they lived before as opposed to a place where they have ethnic roots and would be far more protected from Russian federal authorities
And this sentence in no way says that they once lived in Chechnya
[quote]If your theory is correct, wouldn't it have made more sense to return to Chechnya rather than Dagestan?
Return as in going back to their country of origin Russian Federation of which both are republics. Like someone could return to NY even if they'd only lived in NV. It was a choice they had. Why didn't they exercise it?
- Oh, would you two just get a room!
- [quote] Already, conspiracies. The mind can't accept that two doofuses killed four people, injured hundreds of others and brought an entire city to a stop could've done this alone.
What is so "conspiratorial" about a sleeper cell? What do you think the MI5 spy ring was? Sleepers who were recruited at university. Who do you think was responsible for carrying out 911? Guys who were in the US for years, waiting for their instructions and for the money to take flying lessons, etc.
And what's so hard to believe about a family engaged in sabotage, like the all-American Walkers? And Wiiliam Weisband Jr said he was extremely proud of his father, a Russian sleeper who gave away the Venona program to the soviets, telling them how Americans were decoding Russian cables.
The wife and daughter of Ted Hall were very proud of his turning over atomic secrets to the USSR and the wife knew perfectly well that her husband continually met with Russian agents years after his work on the Manhattan Project.They both kept his secrets.
- 911 was not foreigners.
- They may be hiding in Chechnya.
Maybe they are related to the Plotnikovs somehow.
Boxing is popular with Central Asians because the whole sport was taken over by a violent Uzbeki gangster twenty years ago.
The reputation of ethnic Chechens is that their diaspora is so they can better distribute heroin and other banned products of Central Asia. How true that rep is I couldn't say.
The father was an auto mechanic which you'd think would provide an adequate living in the USA.
- [quote] Russian Federation of which both are republics. Like someone could return to NY even if they'd only lived in NV. It was a choice they had. Why didn't they exercise it?
Lol. You don't waltz into Chechnya. Or South Ossetia. Or Ingushetia. These are separate republics with borders. Everyone is suspicious of everybody else. "Where are your papers, where are you going?"
There are wars going on even today -- mostly "quiet" wars, because the Russians are trying to make everything safe for the 2014 Olympics in the Crimea. People are disappearing left and right. Russians don't want another Nord-Ost or Beslan near Sochi.
If you were a terrorist who wanted to blend in and not alert the Russians, you'd go to Dagestan. If you came from Dagestan and returned to Dagestan, you'd fit right in. You have family, you have a supportive group. It's actually easier for the Russians to track you in Chechnya than in Dagestan. Chechnya was leveled by the Russians. Russia won tne war with Chechnya. The government is a puppet regime installed by the Russians. Russians rule Chechnya. Go to Chechnya and you'd get the Russians wondering, "Why is this group going into Chechnya? They've never lived here; they have no friends or family here."
Dagestan, on the other hand, is where the rebels migrated after the Chechen war was lost. It's more unstable and far less in the hands of the Russians. You'd blend in easier if you'd lived there before and had family there than if you suddenly showed up in Russian-ruled Chechnya. There are fights going on with Russian soldiers in the countryside of Dagestan. The Russians haven't won yet. The police are not in control of the country and are often targets of the insurgents.
Going from Georgia into South Ossetia or from South Ossetia into Ingushetia or Dagestan into Chechnya (or going from anywhere into Chechnya) is not like going from New Jersey into Delaware. The Russian Federation -- particularly in the North Caucusus -- is nothing like the United States.
Google "North Caucusus Geopolitics Stability" and get ready to be confused by all the wars in the area. It really is a shithole of opposing tribal, ethnic and religious groups who have been fighting for more than a thousand years. And Russia is not about to let any of the North Caucusus go. It's a very important region with regards to oil pipelines and the Stavropol krai. The Russians are just as bad as everyone else in the region.
Technically, the Russian constitution says that all citizens of the Russian Federation have a right to live where they want to live. This is quite untrue in the north Caucasus.
- Very interesting posts, R61.
- BTW, the Russian Federation pours unbelievable amounts of money into the north Caucasus. It's basically welfare payments. The people don't work and won't cooperate with Russia. Russia gives them money as a payoff. "Shut up and stay in the federation and we'll pay you."
There is a movement in Russia to get rid of the north Caucasus. It's called "Stop Feeding the Caucasus." Russian nationalists see the north Caucasus Muslim areas as being a drain on the Russian economy. War, the dole, corruption.... and very few Russians in the Muslim areas of the Caucasus.
Other Russians believe that if the north Caucasus is allowed to secede, then all sorts of areas will want to leave the federation as well and Russia will soon consist of only a few oblasts surrounding Moscow. Quite a fall from the glorious Russian and soviet empires.
- Great informative posts r61/63. It makes it all the more perplexing to me that this family had an "out" and were in the U.S. legally and free to do whatever the hell they wanted with their lives here but I guess those tribal/religious/cultural ties were too strong. I just don't get it but I know I see things through Western eyes. I'm not a patriotic person but reading about those fucked up places makes me realize how lucky we are here despite our flaws.
- So ... like ... if it was (pretty much) these fucked guys alone, does that make it "Islamic terror" or "lone wolf nutjob(s)" who just happen to have a muslim connection?
- [quote]"Shut up and stay in the federation and we'll pay you."
My, why an excellent idea!
- Great info, R61/R63. I learned more from your two posts than I've learned from reading the newspaper for the past week.
BTW, are you just well read on the subject or are you in the diplomatic corps or some other government office?
- Dagestan was put on the US list of terrorist areas a few years back -- either 2010 or 2011. There is a group dedicated to creating a separate Islamist area called the Caucasus Emirate. This group is considered a terrorist organization by the US.
Russia has had a historical problem of foreign invasion. The most well-known of these invasions was the Mongol invasion. There were no muslims in the area before the Mongols, who converted to Islam and then forcibly converted the people of central Asia. It took several hundred years before Russia (or more precisely the Muscovite principality and its allies) could rid themselves of the Mongols.
This left Russia with a paranoia about invasion. They feared (and still fear) areas of strong empires. China. Iran (Persia). Turkey (the Ottoman empire). Great Britain (formerly in control of India, Pakistan and Afghanistan. The Crimean War. The Great Game).
Thus Russia likes to have buffer areas protecting the "motherland" from strong empires. They placed Russian governors in these areas who watched over not only the buffer zones, but the frightful areas beyond the buffer zones. As far as the Russians were concerned, the more buffer zones surrounding the Russian "mainland," the better. If empires wanted to invade Russia, they'd have to fight in the buffer zone, not in the motherland itself.
Also, when western Europeans like the French and Germans invaded Russia, Russia could evacuate Russians to far-flung areas of the empire. Hundreds of factories were relocated to Dagestan in WWII. Many Russians and ukranians were evacuated ports on the Caspian Sea after Germans invaded their own areas. Russians were evacuated to Central Asia and sort of "held in reserve" if needed by Russia. Also, people who might sympathize with the invaders were deported to Central Asia so they could not aid and abet the western invaders.
That's why they want areas like the North Caucasus. (also because of the oil pipelines and because of some strategic ports on the Caspian Sea that have important trade routes with the Middle East and Eurasia).
- I like R61's post, but that 'lol' at the beginning is killing me. Why do people just sprinkle random 'lol' into normal conversation?
- Dzhoktar doesn't seem like a bad person. I think he was brainwashed for his older brother. I feel sorry for him, now he won't be able to enjoy life anymore locked away in some prison. No more school, facebook, girlfriends.
- [quote] BTW, are you just well read on the subject or are you in the diplomatic corps or some other government office?
I've been to these areas of the world. It was sort of accidental. I studied Russian language and history. I have a friend who is an expert on Turkey, Turkic languages and turkic peoples. Many Turks fought in Chechnya and now fight in Dagestan. Many of the people of former soviet central Asia are Turkic people.
This area of the world has a long, long history. Some people believe civilization started in the Eurasian steppes and mountain foothills, where vast herds of animals led to animal husbandry. Some people think the "Garden of Eden" was in Central Asia -- that people migrated from central Asia to the middle east and north Africa. The ancient Greeks founded colonies in the Caucasus. In fact, the Greeks named the Caucasus mountains.
Polydeism, Zoroastrianism, Christianity and Islam have all had their day in this area. Unfortunately, gangsterism, corruption and murderous vendettas, blood feuds and tribal warfare have a very long history here. Let me tell you, when you are in a country where the women wear both hajib AND black leather jackets, you're in one badass area.
You can never believe anything they tell you. You are an outsider and there are truths you will never know. They'll always swear they are peaceful people who are being oppressed/discriminated against by someone else and that they are your best friends.
Then they'll kidnap you, lol.
- [quote] Dzhoktar doesn't seem like a bad person. I think he was brainwashed for his older brother. I feel sorry for him, now he won't be able to enjoy life anymore locked away in some prison. No more school, facebook, girlfriends
None of those things for Martin Richards, ever. Just a cold grave. And no more legs for the guy who identified Jahar.
- That horrible video with 6 young soldiers are beheaded. Are Chechnyas the bad guys?
- I'm convinced they thought they were going to get away with it. They didn't understand how ubiquitous cameras are now, otherwise Jahar would not have worn that white hat, let his hair show and not wear sunglasses. If he'd put a piece of pantyhose over his hair, then worn a dark knit beanie-style winter cap and a pair of sunglasses, he would have been impossible to identify.
This kind of hat
- [quote] That horrible video with 6 young soldiers are beheaded. Are Chechnyas the bad guys
- Remember, R71: whenever 'lol' is used, a baby is raped.
- I use lol ironically, like groovy.
- But he ain't talkin'.
- I think charging him with a WMD, when people who open fire in crowds are not charged with WMD, is some motherfucking bullshit.
- He is talking and he just said they acted alone and got instructions off the 'net.
- I know it's a coincidence, but it's odd that the aunt of the Boston bombers lived in Toronto and the Canadians just arrested men who plotted to bomb trains between Toronto and New York.
Notice that a lot of Muslims move to depressed areas of the US that are close to the Canadian border. Detroit, Dearborn, Lockport, Buffalo. It's not like these areas have a lot of jobs, so why so many immigrants?
- They are charging him with using weapons of mass destruction.
I get it now. We invaded Iraq because Saddam Hussein had pressure cookers.
- Canadian police said they got tips from the Muslim community. I was glad to hear that.
- [quote]Remember, [R71]: whenever 'lol' is used, a baby is raped.
- [quote] The more one reads into this is becomes crystal clear that the older one was the true monster and tortured his kid brother and twisted his mind so thoroughly that he would feel forced to do such a thing.
Oh Mary, please. You just want to get in the twink's pants.
Is he cute? Yes. Is he guilty? HELL YES. And when the twink grew up, he'd be just as bad as the older brother, if not worse.
Btw, his facebook photo is pretty cute. But he's still a bloodthirsty killer, and he should be punished to the fullest extent of the law.
- Where are the two sisters?
- [quote]Where are the two sisters?
Oh, they're doing a vaudeville revival show at circuses around the country called "Oksana & Babushka Unplugged."
- Americans don't take this stuff seriously. It is a fucking shame.
- R81, the FBI fucked up in this case, they did not keep a close eye on the dead brother when they had intel that he was radical. That's why they announced their take down of this new "plot" against NY. They want to show the public that they are not that messed up afterall...
one of the senators said that the dead brother's name was misspelled on a document (travel?) and that's why the FBI didn't know he went overseas or some shit like that.
- It's times like these that I long for the medieval methods of execution.
- He doesn't seem like a really bad guy to me. I think he just did as his brother told him to do.
- R75 I don't want to post a link to video Iit would be one of the worst things you ever saw. I would advise not doing it but if you must google 6 Russian soldiers get beheaded. I just wanted to know if Chechens did the beheading?
Tsarmaev it not THAT cute. I have seen about 100 better looking eastern EuroPean gay porn stars....
- [quote][R81], the FBI fucked up in this case, they did not keep a close eye on the dead brother when they had intel that he was radical.
When all else fails, blame Obama.
No, honey, they did all that they could do. They investigated. There was nothing. There's this thing called the law.
- Wasn't there a third person arrested?
Dzhokhar was flunking all his courses, and he went back to his dorm after the bombing and partied.
- R93. I did not blame obama, I blamed the FBI. Director of FBI is Mueller, nominated by the bush administration. Get your facts right before you open your mouth.
- [quote]Director of FBI is Mueller, nominated by the bush administration.
and asked to continue, and put up to the Senate by the Obama administration, dumbass.
- [quote] FBI fucked up in this case, they did not keep a close eye on the dead brother when they had intel that he was radical. That's why they announced their take down of this new "plot" against NY. They want to show the public that they are not that messed up afterall...
It's the Canadians who took down this plot.
- r89, it might have gone beyond that.
Not that Debka is always right, but there are a lot of bizarre points to this case, including the money and what their mother said about them having "contact with the FBI for 5 years"
I think this makes the most sense, especially with the money angle.
Russians like Tsarnev are despised by Russians from St. Petersburg and Moscow. You think we have an attitude about who you are and where you are from? Talk to Russians. To them people from areas like Dgastan are low life and not to be trusted.
As the poster pointed out, I would be careful about trusting them.
- [quote] Russians like Tsarnev are despised by Russians from St. Petersburg and Moscow
He is not Russian; he is Chechen.
- HOW CAN HE BE CHECHEN IF HE NEVER LIVED THERE?!
- r3, he was reportedly shot in the head, neck (whether self-inflicted or not) and leg.
He could easily have had lack of oxygen to the brain and massive trauma from blood loss.
Had this been a "routine" shooting, no doctor would have allowed him to be questioned.
The judge found him lucid and competent according to the NYT article. However, only a doctor would be able to determine that.
Also, isn't is convenient that the paper has a complete transcript? Shades of Judith Miller again.
- Weird that the aunt and uncle in Canada say they haven't talked to Tamerlan in 5 years, but he caled them the night they were identified on tv.
It seems they had nothing to do with the 711 robbery, BTW.
Why did they walk up to a cop and shoot him in his car? It doesn't make sense. They wanted to escape. Why draw attention to themselves by shooting a cop?
- r97, This latest "plot" was described as a joint CanAm operation.
I am a Canadian, and I can tell you that CSIS does very little independent intel gathering. They are basically US lackeys.
In fact, before the DHS, Patriot Act, etc. the Americans would use the RCMP for actions (usually wiretaps) they could not legally carry out in America.
- Dzhokhar should have killed himself. His life is over. And now that we know that the brothers acted alone, there is very little to find out. It's the same old story: Extreme Islamic anger is the root of their violence.
- They didn't act alone, r105.
- They thought the cop was after them, r103?
- R106. How do you know?
- All the conspiracy crazies will come out on this one which, of course, just pulls attention away from the potential conspiracies they should be looking at.
And they sensationalize those so much that a proper review is pretty much doomed.
It's not that conspiracy theorists are always wrong (although they are in almost every case), it's just that their insane postulations and hyperbole make it impossible to get to the heart of the issues which are often terribly mundane.
And mundane is simply not fun.
- r106 is a perfect example of a conspiracy crazy, btw.
- How do you know the DID act alone?
Did you question Jahar and did he satisfactorily answer all your questions about possible links to other people in the US or Dagestan?
How were Jahar and Tam supporting themselves? Where did they get money to live, to pay for their cars? When did their mother return to Dagestan? Did Jahar live with Tam? Did he live alone? Did he live with his mother who had returned to Dagestan? Did he have a job? Was Tamerlan employed recently? Was he able to support his child? How much money did their mother make? Enough to support herself and her student son?
Did Jahar and Tamerlan think they had a good chance of getting away with the bombing? We're they surprised when they were so quickly identified? Where were they going the night of the shoot out? Where we're they escaping to?
You know all of this?
Or have you just imagined inside your head that somebody somewhere recently asked Jahar, "Did you and your brother act alone?" and he scrawled, "Yup" on a piece of paper and the case was promptly closed?
- Yeah, it's crazy to think that guys who came from a war torn area have any connections with maybe other people from that area or even here in the US who may have helped them make bombs. I mean, suuure, right?
Of course the older brother was an overly religious mastermind who brainwashed his brother into killing people (he is so cute! I'm sure he didn't want to do it!) and nobody else had any idea he was going to do it. Even though the Russians warned the FBI that the older brother had made contacts in Dagestan which made the Russian counter terrorism unit sit up and take notice. That's got nothing to do with anything. I mean, the FBI questioned Tamerlan and he told them he was not a radical jihadist, so that settles that. I'm sure he would not have lied to the FBI if he had any foreign or US contact with radical jihadists. It's just a coincidence, that's all. The Russians were probably wrong.
If he were alive today, I'm sure he would assure everyone he acted alone and his word would be good enough for me.
- The investigators said Dzhokhar told them they didn't have any foreign ties and they believe that to be true, but of course they're going to look into a lot more and investigate it.
What has a ring of truth to it is that he said they learned to make the bomb by poring over Inspire magazine. Apparently this is an Al Qaeda online magazine which did have a couple of articles on how to build a pressure cooker bomb that was like the ones the boys did make. I don't think someone who's been shot 4 times and intubated could come up with this story out of the blue as the average person has probably never heard of this magazine.
He said his brother was the leader and initiator of this.
As for the MIT cop---he was shot execution style. Per the campus video the two men went up to the cop's car. They talked to him for a few seconds then one of them took out his gun and shot him several times in the stomach and then ended with one shot to the head.
- I think this is a tragedy on all levels. The families of those who died, or who'll bear the lasting effects from the bombs, and also for this 19 yr old who's a lost soul, who had potential and had aspirations, and his life is over now too.
IMO the older brother was a bully and a thug who terrorized and brainwashed weaker, more vulnerable people. He probably resented his younger brother' ability to assimilate and become more "American," and felt like he was losing his grip on him.
The younger one likely compartmentalized, psychologically separating the college kid with lots of friends, from the submissive brother trying to win approval from a monster. Often, abuse victims try to accomodate the constant demands, and live up to expectations of the abuser.
They were left on their own by their parents and the eldest brother was "in charge." He was clearly violent and unstable.
Now the younger one is left to answer for all of it. He'll pay,and he deserves to pay a price. I don't excuse him, and I don't feel sorry for him, but I do see this as a tragedy for everyone involved.
I wish the older one had survived. I'd like to slice him in pieces and send him to hell. He destroyed a lot of lives, including his younger brother's.
- I predict a few more Inspire subscriptions.
Lots of sick fucks and copycats out there.
- So, when are the parents going to jail?
They moved back to Russia, and left a 15/16 year old to live with a brother who was getting very radical.
So many lives are lost and ruined, including their own children.
I'm embarrassed and ashamed that I feel bad for Jahar. He will be sentenced to death for what he did, and I don't see any way he can get out of that. Reading his tweets, he seemed like a stupid kid. WTF happened?
His family let him down, and he's going to end up paying for it.
- I remember how easily I was manipulated at 19. I would have known better than to blow up people, but if someone has complete control over you it must be difficult to know what's right. It's a shame that he's left to shoulder all the blame alone.
- The official story will be that they acted alone. The FBI could never live it down if it turned out they totally flubbed a case where multiple people were involved in a cell which carried out the bombings. Bad enough they flubbed on this guy who was identied for them as a radical by the Russians. They would never admit anything more than that.
So when they ask Dzhokhar if he and his brother acted alone and Dzhokhar automatically says yes, they will leave it at that.
I wonder if both Dzhokhar and Tamerlan were involved in the triple homicide of Tamerlan's friend and the other two guys. Covering the victims with marijuana was kind of a heavy-handed way of telling police it was a drug-related murder. It was a bit..... much
- I really don't fucking get all you people who sympathize with Dzhokhar. If my older sibling told me to get involved in a bombing, I'd say, "fuck off." Or I'd say ok in the planning stage, pretend I would go along with it and then go to the police.
He said on one of his social media web pages that his world view was Islam. After the bombing, he returned to school and was relaxed with his friends as if nothing had happened. He didn't go to police and give himself up, saying, "My brother pulled a gun on me and forced me to go with him that day. I swear, I didn't want to do it." He blew a little kid into pieces and then hung out with his friends. He thought he'd get away with it.
His brother was a hothead. Dzhokhar simply wasn't a hothead and was better at keeping his mouth shut. He never told any of his friends, "my brother's a real shit." He never told anyone what his brother was planning to do. If he was "Americanized," he would have absorbed a sense of how unfair it would be for him to cause the deaths of people who are just like him. He would have stopped it some how. Or he would have gone to the police afterward, turned his brother in and claimed he was bullied into it. He would not have tried to get away with it, even to the point of running over his own brother in the street in order to escape.
He's a little shit. You're all creaming yourselves over him because you think he's a hottie. You want to redeem him. Well, guess what --he didn't want to redeem himself.
- I bet R119 posted that in his housecoat, hair in curlers, a Kent hanging from his lips. His right hand on his hip and his left index finger pointing, while in the background Love of Life is blaring in the background.
- I hope the little bastard is getting gang ass-raped by footlong dicks every half hour. The little son of a bitch!
- R121 No way! He is being punished. No fun allowed!
- I agree with you R118. I think something is fishy. Why are the authorities so quick to conclude that they acted alone?? I want to see the money trail, I want to see receipts of bomb materials that they bought with their credit cards or video of them in some store buying the pressure cookers etc.
Where did they go to test the bombs that they make? whose house or property? surely they practiced somewhere! and no way the wife didn't know anything. they lived in a shitty tiny apt. Where did they get the money? why isn't anyone asking this question?
- It would have been difficult for Tamerlan to murder three people by himself. But if he had help -- like, from his brother -- it could be done. Wait til one goes to the bathroom or into the kitchen and slit the throats of the other two. Then kill the other guy when he comes back into the room. If you slit someone's throat, they can't alert someone else by screaming. And throat slitting is a favored Muslim way of killing. It's how they kill goats, which is their main source of meat. In most Muslim countries, they don't buy goat meat at a supermarket. They keep a goat in the back yard and kill it themselves. It's just a fact of life, like keeping chickens.
I say both Tamerlan and his brother were stone cold killers. If you can calmly walk away as your bomb explodes and kills people, then you can slit a few throats. They come from a dangerous, murderous part of the world. I'm sure the kids back home in Dagestan wear sports clothes and listen to hip hop, too. I'm sure they'd look even more americanized if they could get their hands on the same consumer products. I'm sure they are cool with their friends. But they are the ones who grow up to decapitate Russian soldiers. It's no big deal to them. I bet it was no big deal to both brothers to bomb and kill here.
In Afghanistan, it is usually the most trusted afghan who is the one who blows up the British or American soldiers. It's always been like that. Not all Muslim extremists practically wear a sign saying, "America hater here." Some are very trustworthy and quiet, just like serial killers. Serial killers neighbors are often shocked, too. "He was such a quiet boy. He mowed my lawn. He had a girlfriend. He was so sweet. I can't believe it."
They were both killers. Neither one was more responsible for the bombings than the other was. I'd surely blame everything on my dead brother or sister if I could.
- [quote]HOW CAN HE BE CHECHEN IF HE NEVER LIVED THERE?!
Is it even worth answering this stupidity? Because both his parents are from Chechnya, and his family moved from there only a few years before his birth. His family on both sides is presumably Chechen for many generations, stretching back for hundreds of years.
If you insist in splitting hairs, he is a recently naturalized American citizen of immediate Chechen ancestry, from a family of Chechen origin. But he is not "Russian", in any sense, any more than a Tibetan is Chinese or an Irishman is British.
- [quote] I bet [R119] posted that in his housecoat, hair in curlers, a Kent hanging from his lips. His right hand on his hip and his left index finger pointing, while in the background Love of Life is blaring in the background.
Yeah, of course I did. It's not as if I have been to the Caucasus and Central Asia and have experience with the different peoples there. It's not as if one of my closest friends is an expert in that area of the world, has been one for more than twenty years and lectures for a think tank on the rise of islamic militancy in Turkey, the Caucasus and the former soviet stans. It's not like we know anything about how young men from the Caucasus are now routinely sent to study at madrassahs in the Middle East. It's not as if we know that it is the Saudis who are behind funding jihad in Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingushetia. It's not like we know that the north Caucasus today what Afghanistan was in the 1980s, complete with training camps in the forests and foreign insurgents from all over the Muslim world fighting jihad with the Russians.
I'm a basement dwelling Internet troll without a fucking clue. And that Jahar is just sooooo cute! It's his brother who was the big meanie! Jahar loved America. He went to the prom, for god's sake. He's one of us!
- Calm down r126.
- or, in other words, MARY!!!
- They're only releasing that they worked alone to not scare the public. I'm sure the case isn't closed.
- [quote] Because both his parents are from Chechnya, and his family moved from there only a few years before his birth.
I believe his family may have been deported from Chechnya to Kyrgyzstan in Stalin era or shortly after Stalin's death. This would mean their parents were not born in Chechnya, or had been born there but forcibly moved shortly after birth.
The family moved from Kyrgystan to Dagestan, which is an unsafe thing to do. Kyrgystan has its problems, but Dagestan became the new hotbed for Islamic militants after the second Chechen war. Of course, if you want to fight against infidels, Dagestan is the place to go.
The US has a base in Kyrgystan and this has inflamed many Muslims. Naturally, Saudi Arabia is all too happy to fan the flames of Muslims in this area of the world by funding radical mullahs and madrassahs to preach that the American infidels should not be using Muslim land (Kyrgystan) as a staging site for the war with Afghanistan, another Muslim state.
You can read about the deportation of Chechens in the soviet era by doing a google search. So many different people were deported during and after Stalin that it is just too complex to quickly summarize. Crimean Tatars, Chechens, Poles, Crimean Greeks, descendants of Germans, Ingush, Turks.... It was huge. Millions of people were evicted and relocated during and after WWII in the soviet union.
It's a crappy part of the world and those boys had the opportunity to leave it all behind them for good. Instead, they turned around and killed the people who gave them a safe haven. This is what religion and ancient ethnic enmity does to people.
- I know --MARY! Imagine caring about where these bombers came from or what motivated them.
- I was reading the transcript of Dzhokhar's initial appearance before a judge and something the Court says makes no sense to me.
[quote]Any statement made by you may be used against you in court, and you have the right not to have your own words used against you.
Huh? Isn't that contradictory? Your own words may be used against you, but you have the right not to have them used against you. That makes no sense. What am I missing?
- R123 maybe it was the FBI who trained them and instructed them to do what they did, and the bombs werent supposed to go off?
Wasn't there a case in Chicago a few years back where an American black Muslim was trained and given bombs by an undercover agent and then arrested because he was going to use them? Does anybody remember his name? That can't be the only time the FBI has done something like that.
- A friend of mine with experience working with Chechen refugees said that Chechen fathers don't bond well with their sons because they expect to die fighting. It's been that way for generations, so it's become a culturally acceptable thing.
During the Norway shootings, most of the kids who survived were trying to hide but the Chechen brothers started throwing rocks at the shooter.
- For some reason, I don't think they did it.
I have a gut feeling that the real culprits are Saudis, and that this was discovered on Tuesday of last week. The FBI didn't want it to get out that a Saudi national was possibly responsible but it did. So they covered their asses and blamed this on the other guys....
The Saudis can't take the blame for this because the Saudis are financing us (our gov't) with their oil money. So even if they have a loose cannon who wants to come over and do us harm...we have to play nice to the Saudis. 15 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were Saudi yet we invaded Iraq. None of the hijackers were Iraqi. Al Qaeda is primarily active in Saudi. 90% of the organization is based there yet we have drone strikes and wage war on non-suspecting goathearders that have nothing to do with terrorism.
- "for some reason" = You are a paranoid freak who would rather believe conspiracy theories than the facts.
- Yes, R136, it is not like the Neo-cons conspired to lie to us about the threat Saddam Hussein's WMDs, is it?
- The FBI are bunch of idiots, they arrested the wrong man for those poison letters to govt officials. They had to let that guy go.
I would seriously doubt what they say about the bombing case.
- The bomb suspect basically admitted his guilt yesterday. He told the investigators that he & his brother acted alone and that his brother was the one who was the main leader.
The guy whose car was carjacked said they came up to him and told him they were the bombers.
There's video of them killing the MIT cop because the campus has cameras.
New video/photos were just released showing both guys hiding behind cars shooting.
Some Watertown residents witnessed the gun battle where they exchanged over 200 rounds and saw the heavier one (probably Tamerlan) shooting at the police
Today a store said that in February Tamerlan came in and made purchases that could be used to make bombs.
More will come out but there's nothing to support the conspiracy theories on here. The guy admits to doing it.
- r137 this case has NOTHING to do with the fact that we invaded Iraq under false pretenses. the very people responsible for that horrible illegal debacle are pleased to see people like you casting doubt on the truth of this case.
- R139, thanks for that info. The most important question is "WHERE DID HE GET THE $$$$$?"
Dead bomber was a community college drop out! He didn't have a job, not that I know of. The younger brother was still in school and he didn't have a job either...
Dead bomber's wife had a job but they also had a baby and rugrats ain't cheap. They could just be "soldiers" and had funding from elsewhere. Remember he was away for 6 months, maybe he made contacts there and got funding. And they have those untraceable money transfers, very popular among the terrorists.
- Have you bitches seen this:
She is a 20-year-old student at Holmes Community College in Mississippi, uncertain at the moment of whether she’ll stick with her current career track. But Emily Jolly is fairly certain of this: Dzhokhar “Jahar” Tsarnaev is no terrorist.
Jolly is among a growing legion of people who have examined enough of the mountain of “evidence” now available since last week’s bombings in Boston to be convinced the 19-year-old is innocent. Which is why, she says, she has taken to Twitter in recent days hoping to make the hashtag #freejahar a trending one, and of drumming up enough support for the hospitalized suspect to get him a “badass lawyer.”
- That article would be hilarious if it weren't so... sad.
- R142 The "truthers" enrage me. They have no common sense.
- r139, there are too many things in this case that make no investigative sense. This is, at heart, a murder investigation.
Looked at that way, the money, the mother's statements, past FBI actions, etc. raise too many questions pointing right back at the Bureau.
I am NOT a Freeper, truther, or general conspiracy loon, but I do believe they exist--especially when LEO organizations colossally fuck up.
This is not the first time they've tried to turn someone and it backfired.
- keep clearing your cookies, r145....
- Does anyone have a link to these transcripts? I seem to have missed a lot, here. Thanks.
- Nevermind. Found them. Carry on.
- R145 CNN had an interview with a Republican congressman on the Intelligence committee. He couldn't say much, but he said the FBI did investigate Tamerlan thoroughly when they got the tip from Russia. They couldn't find anything. They did interviews with him which you only do as a last resort because this tips your hand.. They also contacted the parents. After they couldn't find anything they contacted Russian Intelligence to try to find out what they had. Supposedly they tried at least 3 times with no response.
the money hasn't been addressed but they probably didn't have any in the aftermath. The guy they carjacked. They put a gun to him and forced him to drive to 3 ATMs. At one of them they got about $900. The carjacked guy escaped when they stopped for gas and he ran into the 7 11 yelling to call the police.
Also the guy whose legs were blown off is an eyewitness. He said the guy with the dark hat and sunglasses looked him straight in the eye as he placed his bag right next to him. He's the one who confirmed the FBI suspicion about Tamerlan.
- I found a friend of Jahar on Twitter who is posting about how he is innocent, and he wants to raise money to try and help him out.
Wonder if this guy is for real, or if he just wants lots of media attention?
- Never heard of Dagestan before last week. But just confirms my theory...any "Stan" country is, by definition, a shithole...
- R142, I gotta second what one commenter posted regarding that article:
[quote]Ahhh to be young again. Evil does not always look evil and WHY is a question, that over time, you learn can not always be answered.
I'm willing to bet this girl, who's about the same aqe as Dzhokhar, just thinks he's cute. Too cute to do anything destructive.
- r142 Any pics of "Emily Jolly" out there? I'm dying to see how fat she is.
If Dzhokhar looked like that fat, homely, middle-aged guy that 4chan & Reddit deemed "suspicious", I doubt Miss Jolly would be doing so much "research" on this case.
- R50, only retards will donate. That kid will probably use the money to buy drugs and beer and spend it all on himself!
- [quote]The most important question is "WHERE DID HE GET THE $$$$$?" Dead bomber's wife had a job but they also had a baby and rugrats ain't cheap.
His wife didn't just have a job according to her lawyer she had been working 70 to 80 hours, seven days a week, as a home health care aide. I bet they were also living off credit cards.
How emasculating to be left home with the baby while his wife went to work. No wonder he went cuckoo with the special brand of American anger and hatred. America turns men into women and then wonders why it has men stockpiling guns and weapons.
What does it mean to be a man if you can't even feed your family?
- Ashleigh Banfield is reporting the victims families are pissed Dzhokhar is at that hospital, and he may be transferred.
Will he get a mug shot? I'm thinking if he looks really busted, the girls will go back to the Biebs.
- [quote]How emasculating to be left home with the baby while his wife went to work.
Um, dear, all indications are that the arrogant bastard never had any interest in holding down a job or working for a living. He thought regular work was beneath him (his uncle said so in an interview) and was for "infidels". His wife was his property to do with as he saw fit, and working her ass off 70 hours a week was what he wanted.
- Different ethnic groups have different genetic stuff, and human scientists don't know what all the human genes do. The politically correct, anti-science mandate is that except in the area of medicine, no one may research if ethnic genetic makeup causes differences in such things as behavior. What we know of other species would suggest that different ethnic groups could be expected to have inherently different personality traits, like being more violent and less empathetic. It would be interesting to study whether Chechens are born more evil than other groups.
- [quote] The "truthers" enrage me. They have no common sense.
[quote] If Dzhokhar looked like that fat, homely, middle-aged guy that 4chan & Reddit deemed "suspicious", I doubt Miss Jolly would be doing so much "research" on this case.
[quote] I'm willing to bet this girl, who's about the same aqe as Dzhokhar, just thinks he's cute. Too cute to do anything destructive.
Our country has become SO incredibly superficial.
Ugly, obese, old = BAD PERSON.
Beautiful, skinny, young = GOOD PERSON.
The media and advertising has literally brainwashed people into believing the above.
It also pisses me off that this one reporter on CNN kept referring to Dzhokhar as "the kid." She referred to him as "this 19 year old kid" at least four times during her report.
Way to influence public opinion, lady. So now people will start to think of him as this cute, innocent "kid," rather than a murderous 19 year old man.
We are truly fucked.
- Sometimes I find it hard to believe how naive, to the point of stupidity these young terrorists are.
I find it common sense that if you place a bomb at a crowded place in a major American city you are bound to be caught soon, because there will be several pictures or film catching you before, after and during the dreadful act, unless you want to get caught, in the style of Timothy Mcvay with the Oklahoma bombing, which is clearly not the case here.
- [quote] I get it now. We invaded Iraq because Saddam Hussein had pressure cookers.
Well let me just say that THIS is why I've always been afraid of pressure cookers. I've always known what they could do, and they scare the hell out of me.
Whenever someone used the pressure cooker on Top Chef, I would watch in terror.
Pressure cookers are fucking DANGEROUS!
- "Whenever someone used the pressure cooker on Top Chef, I would watch in terror."
- They're great for cooking artichokes.
- Strange video of Dzhokhar wrestling. Are they speaking Russian?
- Someone on my Facebook posted this picture of Jeff Bauman (the young man who lost both his legs) giving Sydney Corcoran (who along with her mother was seriously injured) her 18th birthday present. I'm so glad he's doing so well a week later. After seeing those gruesome pictures of his bloody missing limbs and ashen face, I didn't think he would make it.
- r149, then why didn't they tap him after the initial tip?
If the Russians took it seriously enough in the first place to issue a warning, it seems odd they just dropped it afterwards.
Unless, he was turned. Then, the travel, the video, the uni money and everything else makes sense. Unfortunately, he wasn't turned enough and the FBI got fucked.
Both the UK and Canada have been dealing with the "second wave" Islamist terror profile for a long time, (which the Tsarnaevs fit). Both use informants from the Islamic community (the Toronto 18 were caught that way).
Interesting that the recent Canadian plot was miraculously foiled around this time, with people who fit the Tsarnaev's profile being arrested.
- So am I r165.
It's good to see that he's not only looking better, but socializing as well.
I hope all of them get the support they need after the case is out of the headlines.
I always wonder what happens to people in catastrophic situations in the years after the event. Mary! I know.
- R164, those "he was framed" idiots are nauseating! Of course, the families would say that. Bonnie and Clyde's families also spoke kindly of them and refused to believe they had anything to do with any murders. It's funny that WD Jones (accomplice) and Blanche Barrow (sister-in-law) said/wrote that they saw Bonnie fire weapons yet now their relatives are now going on record saying she never shot anyone and presenting her as a ride-on girlfriend instead. What irks me is that some biographers are now buying it. I guess the biographers just want to tell a different angle just to write another damn book. But I digress.
The point is, families are too biased and don't want to believe the worst in their children, siblings, cousins, etc.
- Pressure cookers are built with a rubber safety plug that will blow out if the pressure gets too high, before the whole thing explodes.
- I'm a little bit in love with how Adrianne Haslet-Davis is accepting losing half of her leg. She's the (former?) dancer and she and her husband were featured on Anderson's show yesterday.
Seeing how she poses here without being subconscious about her stump is so encouraging.
- Good thread. Thanks for the info about the various -stans. As I posted in another thread, I think this is a FBI entrapment case that "blew" up in its face.
I think the family was beyond fucked up before landing in the US. Mom was arrested for shoplifting in Lord and Taylor back in 2012.
I really really wish that uncle would give a candid interview.
- [quote]It also pisses me off that this one reporter on CNN kept referring to Dzhokhar as "the kid." She referred to him as "this 19 year old kid" at least four times during her report.
A CNN reporter this morning on the Chris Cuomo show nearly slipped and said that Tamerlan Tsarnaev "was murdered" during the shootout. I wonder is this is the same reporter.
- R166 Why didn't they tap him?
Look at the politically appointed amateurs and nut bars that are infesting the Intelligence Committee and you'll see how far we've fallen.
Michelle Bachmann makes decisions on National Security!!
Many of them have only been interested in "getting" Obama.
Everything else was secondary.
You can go back to 9/11 when every foreign intelligence agency worth anything including Russia and Canada and a host of others were warning the US that something was up but were ignored by those where the buck used to stop.
- R98: I have no problem thinking they were paid by the FBI or another country.
- R170, someone posted the following on an article on her:
[quote]What's amazing is that she's wiggling that thing around like it's been amputated for quite some time. Usually those things are painful, stitched up, and difficult to wiggle around like that for quite some time.....you might almost think the bombing was a setup with amputee actors or something
Seriously?! Those conspiracy theorists are really clutching at straws. The night after the bombings, there was a picture circulating saying that Jeff Bauman (whose name hadn't been disclosed yet, but the photos of his injuries were everywhere) was a double amputee Iraq War veteran named Nick Vogt who'd been hired to pretend to be a bombing victim. Here's the pic:
- R98, seriously, DEBKAfile?
[quote]Wired.com's Noah Shachtman wrote in 2001 that the site "clearly reports with a point of view; the site is unabashedly in the hawkish camp of Israeli politics," adding that Debka had partnered with the right-wing news site WorldNetDaily for a weekly subscription product. Yediot Achronot investigative reporter Ronen Bergman states that the site relies on information from sources with an agenda, such as neo-conservative elements of the US Republican Party, "whose worldview is that the situation is bad and is only going to get worse," and that Israeli intelligence officials do not consider even 10 percent of the site's content to be reliable. Cornell Law professor Michael C. Dorf calls Debka his "favorite alarmist Israeli website trading in rumors.
- r176, when they have Mossad info, it's usually accurate, but obviously they have an agenda.
- First, some senator was told by the FBI that they didn't know the dead bomber traveled out of the country because his name was misspelled on the flight manifest. But at today's senate hearings Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano testified that they knew he left the country but by the time he came back, investigation had closed.
Hmmm...who should I believe? They can't even get their stories straight!
I think the FBI screwed up, they let him slipped by. Don't think there's a huge conspiracy, I just think they are inept!
- We don't know if Dzhokhar was framed or not that's what a trial is for. Until he is convicted, I'm going to give the poor kid the benefit of the doubt.
- Poor kid? Bitch, please! There is photographic evidence of him planting the bomb. He was ID'ed by the guy whose car they jacked. He shot back at the cops.
- When Tsarnaev is found guilty, r179 will be trying to claim it's a setup.
- Isn't it ironic that he is being cared for at BETH ISRAEL Hospital
- I'm sure they're being real gentle with him in his treatment...
- CNN reports that officials are taking another look at the unsolved murders in 2011 of Tamz's friend and two others. Throats slit.
- I'm getting all kinds of ads for pressure cookers on websites I visit. If I bought one now, would I be put on some kind of government watch list?
- CNN says Dzhokhar was in NYC in 2012 in November.
Remember what happened in early November? Bloomberg cancelled the NYC marathon after hurricane Sandy. I wonder if good old Dzhokhar had planned something for the NY mararathon but was thwarted.
- I'm thinking the older dude was probably a paranoid schizo (it usually shows up around 24, when he got religion and his friend mysteriously had his throat cut), and the younger kid was probably an explosives freak.
- No plans for NYC but to party.
- He probably killed his friend in a crazy rage and went to Russia to avoid being questioned.
- Weren't there three other people living in their house who were arrested on Friday? What's their story?
- [quote] No plans for NYC but to party.
Exactly. I believe everything this terrorist tells the police. Parrr-tay, man. Me and my bro were just going to partay!
- Maybe he told his friend about his bomb plans and the friend wasn't crazy about the idea. .....
- I really feel for the victims who lost limbs. The real trauma hasn't set in yet. They are being brave, and they are still in the hospital, but a couple of years down the road I will be very interested to see how they're doing. I hope they can form a support groups for one another. No one else will ever understand fully what it was like.
I can't even imagine how I'd react to losing a limb. They have to go thru rehab, then they have to go back into the world, and they will have to look at, and feel, and accomodate the results of this attack for the rest of their lives.
Taking a bath, getting dressed, toileting, walking from one room to another, getting in and out of bed, sitting down, standing up. It will be a different life. One they never asked for or imagined. The strength of will they will have to summon is impossible to imagine.
- There have been more than 1500 amputees from the Iraq and Afghanistan wars with 486 having multiple limbs amputated. Almost no one has expressed any concern about them.
No wonder some of the vets have said that they were a little angry over the response to this bombing.
- Apples and oranges, R195. Though I sympathize with the vets, they did know what they were getting into when they enlisted -- the possibility of being killed or maimed. The Boston Marathon victims were civilians who were only there to watch a race and cheer their friends and loved ones. They were not expecting that, nor should they.
- Here's some Iraq veterans comments a couple days after the bombing. (before the arrests)
"That's what bothered Sellars, now stationed in Fort Hood, Texas, about the media frenzy after the marathon bombing. "Every time something like this happens, I find myself angry," Sellars said. "Not that someone would do that on American soil, but that Americans react the way they do… Because we have this attitude that that can't happen here -- bombings are something that happens in Third World shitholes." (Or as Politico quoted Tom Brokaw on Tuesday: "We're the most advanced nation in the world, living with Third World vulnerabilities.") This bombing was so small compared to some things he saw in Iraq. The bombing in Boston, while awful, "is nothing like six artillery shells in the back of a car," Sellars said, referring to an IED set off in front of a mosque after Friday prayers in 2007. That was "carnage." He saw a photo of the 78-year-old marathon runner getting knocked down by the blast. He felt for the guy, but, "He should count himself as fortunate."
And another comment: "No one complained that an IED at home was being treated differently than an IED in a war zone. Of course a war and a marathon are different. Of course a rare thing and an unfortunately common thing are different. But, Warnock said, "There is always something of that bitterness, and it's something that I work to dispel, to not be bitter and angry. There is something to the fact that there wasn't this outrage" when people died in Iraq, he said. "Imagine if there was this media response to every IED that killed an American soldier. So there is this kind of like, 'Well, there were a lot of Americans who died in bomb blasts.' But at the same time, it's not that hard to understand it was American civilians on American soil. People don't expect marathon runners to get blown up…. Somewhere inside that does offend."
Warnock added, "There are still soldiers in Afghanistan being killed and it's not in the news cycle. I try not to lose myself in that bitterness. I'm a civilian now so I might as well start thinking like it."
- Agreed, R196
- Why is CNN now touting Pearce Morgan's chat show as "Breaking news"?
There is no breaking news, nor is it a news report, it's a chat show discussing news that has already been reported.
CNN, as usual, is blowing their wad over this.
- Now they're saying Dzhokhar was unarmed in the boat. No weapons found.
So the city was shut down for an unarmed man?
Why were they shooting up the boat if he wasn't firing at them?
So the theory of him trying to commit suicide in the neck is now out?
- [quote] He probably killed his friend in a crazy rage and went to Russia to avoid being questioned.
I wonder if Tamerlan was a closet case. That triple murder story is strange, and when reading the details of the murder, it seems that Tamerlan was jealous or something.
Interestingly, a woman in the town where Tamerlan's parents live (Makhachkala, Russia) referred to Tamerlan as a "dandy." Here's an exerpt from the article:
"A woman who works in a small shop opposite Tsarnaev's apartment building said she only saw his son during the course of one month last summer. She described him as a dandy.
"He dressed in a very refined way," Madina Abdullaeva said. "His boots were the same color as his clothes. They were summer boots, light, with little holes punched in the leather."
And then an article that linked Tamerlan to the triple murder in Waltham, Mass., also brought to mind some sort of relationship between Tamerlan and the youngest murder victim who was the same age as Tamerlan.
[quote] Tsarnaev had also been close to one of the murder victims, 25-year-old Brendan Mess, investigators told ABC. The two had been training together in a local gym –each helping the other with a missing element from their fighting arsenal. Tsarnaev, a golden-gloves heavy weight boxer, lacked martial arts training. And Mess, an experienced jiu jitsu competitor, lacked boxing experience.
[quote] The two sparred together at an Allston, MA gym called Wai Kru. The gym's head trainer, John Allan, provided a statement to the Boston Globe via Facebook message saying that Tamerlan "came into the gym to spar from time to time."
[quote] Tsarnaev and Mess lived just a few blocks apart in Cambridge, in the same predominantly Russian neighborhood. Authorities believe there were times Mess crashed at Tsarnaev's apartment.
[quote] It was unclear if Tsarnaev knew the other men slain, Raphael Teken, 37, and Erik Weissman, 31.
[quote] "There was no forced entry, it was clear that the victims had let the killer in. And their throats were slashed right out of an al Qaeda training video. The drugs and money on the bodies was very strange," the investigator said.
But here's the paragraph that REALLY stood out to me:
[quote] One of Mess' relatives yesterday told investigators they thought it was odd that Tsarnaev did not attend the funerals for his slain friend. The Mess relative also described animosity between the two friends "over Brendan's lifestyle," two law enforcement sources said. Because it is an open homicide investigation the sources were not authorized to speak on the record.
WTF? That's a very strange statement.
Add to all of this the fact that Tamerlan was abusive to an ex-girlfriend (who had him arrested for domestic violence), and in my mind this whole thing screams CLOSET CASE.
And don't even get me started on the mentorship relationship he had with the mysterious "Misha."
It's all very weird.
- You have to admit, he does look like a bit of a dandy in this picture...
- Killing three men by yourself would be difficult. It would be a lot easier if he had help. Like help from his brother Dzhokhar.
- Oh he was a dandy alright, and a total mama's boy. It was as his moms became more religiously fanatical that he did.
And that's why she shouts it loud and proud now that she knows he's been set up. Because she knew he'd need some sort of supportive family cover story if he ever got caught doing what she full well knew he was eventually going to do.
- Mama's a grifter in a headscarf.
- Way to selectively edit to support your theories, R201. This is the next paragraph:
[quote]"Given how religious the older brother was, and we have heard information from the college about how the younger brother was 'a pot head' is there a chance that Tsarnaev was angry that Brendan was selling his brother marijuana? We don't know,'' said one of those sources. "But we are certainly interested in finding out."
The "lifestyle" to which the article refers is one of drugs - not homosexuality.
- [quote]I wonder if Tamerlan was a closet case. That triple murder story is strange, and when reading the details of the murder, it seems that Tamerlan was jealous or something
Tamerlan was hot, sexy and seems to have been broody, with simmering anger. But I don't get "closet case" at all. He did mention girls shouldn't get any ideas seeing him shirtless, but that was because he'd become very religious.
- "Tamerlan was hot, sexy and seems to have been broody, with simmering anger."
I think it's time for Lasik, you nut bag.
- Here's a friend of Dzhokhar and his sisters, singing their praises. Just a typical all-American girl, surprised that they might be involved in illegal activities. And there's this
"They first asked her about an incident several years ago in which Ailina Tsarnaeva displayed Smith's identification when police stopped her for driving without a seat belt, Smith and the source said"
- I don't want to bring up the video in which 6 young Russian soldiers are beheaded by Chechens ...
- Liza or Madonna would be far more suited to play Momma Rose than Babs ever would. Even Olivia Newton-John, Bette Midler or Cher would be better. Babs just has a wild hair up her snatch and thinks she can pull this off. No fucking way. Babs needs to just focus on singing and starring in sequels to Meet The Parents. She's all wrong for Momma Rose. Momma Rose is worshipped by gay men everywhere, it must be done right if it's going to be done and Streisand ain't the one to do it, honey. I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE, LOVE Barbra. But it's not the right project for her. Barbra, sugar, just focus on your angelic voice and leave Momma to someone who can do her justice.
- WTF are you on about, R211?
- Well, here's my spin on everything.
*The older brother was a dealer. That's how he made his money. The younger brother was a stoner who did what the older brother told him.
*The murder of the friend had to do with a dope deal that went south.
*The money from the dealing was also going to terrorist groups in Russia.
- Islam is OK with drug dealing? I thought he was devout? What a hypocrite. I think his life was going downhill and he fucked it up real bad and he wanted to ruin the lives of others, maybe the younger brother secretly hated being ordered around by him and ran him over by "accident."
- i definitely think he received training while he was away for 6 months. Those bastards probably gave him some money too.
- One Direction, presenting holes, and the Real Housewives will not be so goddamned relevant.
And people will not care if Will finally fucked EJ on Days of Our Lives.
Because Black people will be in the street looking for a brighter day.
The revolution will not be televised
The revolution will not be right back after a message about a white tornado, white lightning, or white people.
You will not have to worry about feminine hygiene, a close shave, or softer asswipe.
The revolution will not go better with Coke.
The revolution will not fight the germs that may cause bad breath.
The revolution will not be televised, will not be televised, will not be televised, will not be televised.
The revolution will be no re-run brothers;
The revolution will be live.
Please escort R216 out of the room. He's had too much to drink.
Everyone step back slowly....
- You have to wonder if Tamerlan hadn't embraced evil that maybe he would have used his control over Dzhokhar to prostitute him to college professors and the like. If Dzhokhar had ended up turning tricks for his brother, it could have freed up some of the wife's time to care for the kid better. Sadly, the daughter needs to be preemptively put on a watch list for when her Chechen roots inevitably activate. I'll bet the wife is regretting that she carried the Visitor baby to term.
- R211 is threatening us with another bomb of epic proportions.
- I don't think they were dealing drugs but they were always hard up for money. Just the previous week I saw Dzhokhar and his brother on Cam4 begging for tokens. I thought they were just Eastern European scammers. Who would have thought it would have ended like this.
- This is from the AP wire, but it sounds like it came from Drudge:
BOSTON (AP) — Sixteen hours after investigators began interrogating him, the surviving suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings went silent: He'd just been read his constitutional rights.
Dzhokhar Tsarnaev immediately stopped talking after a magistrate judge and a representative from the U.S. Attorney's office entered his hospital room and gave him his Miranda warning, according to a U.S. law enforcement source and four officials of both political parties briefed on the interrogation. They insisted on anonymity because the briefing was private.
Before being advised of his rights, the 19-year-old suspect told authorities that his older brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, 26, only recently had recruited him to be part of the attack that detonated pressure-cooker bombs at the marathon finish line, two U.S. officials said.
The CIA, however, had named Tamerlan to a terrorist database 18 months ago, said officials close to the investigation who spoke to The Associated Press on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the case with reporters.
The new disclosure that Tamerlan Tsarnaev was included within a huge, classified database of known and suspected terrorists before the attacks was expected to drive congressional inquiries in coming weeks about whether the Obama administration adequately investigated tips from Russia that Tsarnaev had posed a security threat.
Boston police Commissioner Ed Davis had said earlier that shots were fired from inside the boat, but two U.S. officials told the AP that no gun was found inside, raising questions about how he was injured. The homeowner who called police initially said he saw a good amount of blood in the boat.
Oh, I don't know... maybe he was injured during the fucking SHOOT OUT on the streets of Watertown? Just a guess.
- Now it's the "Obama administration."
- The mother clearly has issues (liar, cheat and theif).
- [quote] Islam is OK with drug dealing? I thought he was devout?
Every liquor store in many areas of the US is owned by Muslims. They sell it, but don't drink it. They're like Mormons in that they don't mind making a profit off things their religion forbids.
And my friends who have PhDs in the sciences said the first thing male Muslim students did when they got to the US was rent shitloads of porn videos.
- [quote] You have to wonder if Tamerlan hadn't embraced evil that maybe he would have used his control over Dzhokhar
Where are you people getting the idea that Tamerlan "controlled" Dzhokhar? Dzhokhar was a grown man, he wasn't 13 years old. I haven't heard any friends who knew Dzhokhar claim Tamerlan controlled him. They didn't live together. Dzhokhar had plenty of free time to attend school, hang with his friends, get high.
Tamerlan controlled his wife, which is par for the course with many Muslim men. The man is the king, the woman does all the work. That is cultural for muslims from his part of the world. But men controlling other men is not cultural.
There's no evidence that Dzhokhar was bullied or beaten or controlled or forced to do anything.
Now the grifter family is trying to claim that Tamerlan was "brainwashed and controlled" by some "mysterious convert" named Mischa. I'll bet that Mischa is the one who's been selling a shares in a certain bridge spanning the East River.
- This could all have been avoided if they had made and sold a gay incest video.
- Well he's talking to someone R221 per this CNN "BREAKING NEWS"
"The surviving suspect in the Boston bombings has told investigators that he and his brother planned to bomb Times Square, New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg said Thursday.
"Last night we were informed by the FBI that the surviving attacker revealed that New York City was next on their list of targets," Bloomberg said.
The two came up with the plan spontaneously after the Boston bombing, as the talked in an SUV they hijacked, New York City Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said.
Dzhokhar Tsarnaev initially told investigators that he and his brother, Tamerlan Tsarnaev, had talked about going to New York to "party." But after further questioning he revealed that they planned to use their remaining explosives there, Kelly announced.
The plan "fell apart" when the SUV ran low on fuel in the Boston area and the Tsarnaevs ordered the driver to pull into a gas station, Kelly said. The driver escaped during the refueling, he said, and police subsequently caught up with the Tsarnaevs.
The brothers had five pipe bombs and a "pressure-cooker bomb" -- the latter similar to the bombs used in the Boston blasts -- with them in the SUV, Kelly said.
New York officials know that Dzhokhar was in New York late last year, likely in November, Kelly said.
There is no evidence that New York City is currently a target of a terror attack stemming from the Boston bombings, Kelly added."
- In other words, it wasn't really a "plan" to bomb Times Square. It was a last minute idea that they had for 10 minutes before they ran into police.
And those AP writers are still shills.
- A woman from Boston who "claims" she knows Jahar and Tam, wrote in and said that Tamerlan killed the drug dealer/friend because he was selling pot to Jahar. That's why the bodies were covered in it.
When you see and hear the Tsarnaev mother, is it any wonder that it all ended this way?
- [quote] The plan "fell apart" when the SUV ran low on fuel in the Boston area and the Tsarnaevs ordered the driver to pull into a gas station
Please. They had no plans. This was just crazy talk in the car. Oo oo how about that Grand Canyon. Yea! And that mountain with faces on it! Yea yea! Maybe we could take down the moon. Now that's crazy, bro. I have to be back in class Monday.
- Oh I see. They just happened to have bombs and explosives in the vehicle with no real plans to use them (again).
- [quote] And my friends who have PhDs in the sciences said the first thing male Muslim students did when they got to the US was rent shitloads of porn videos.
Goodness, those science PhDs really lend credibility to this scientific observation, don't they?
- R231 has a point. They were making these bombs for some reason. And remember the carjacker said they spoke in a foreign language saying 'blah, blah, blah Manhattan, blah, blah blah."
Also in the CNN article: "In one of those trips, in April 2012, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is photographed in New York's Times Square.
One person pictured with him in Times Square remained in federal custody Thursday, as he's been for the last six days, on alleged visa violations.
This man, whom a federal law enforcement source said Dzhokhar shared a cell phone with, was originally detained last Friday with another person when federal agents swarmed a residence thinking Dzhokhar might be inside, a federal law enforcement source said.
Neither of these two detained men -- both foreign exchange students from Kazakhstan at the University of Massachusetts-Dartmouth, where Dzhokhar also was enrolled -- have been linked to the Boston Marathon attack. Yet investigators hope they can better piece together the suspected bombers' movements before and after the marathon.
"These guys are not being cut loose immediately, and there's a reason why," the federal law enforcement source said.
- Correction: Meant the guy who was carjacked.
- Who is his lawyer?
- [quote] Who is his lawyer?
- The Associated Press again:
[quote]On Sunday, prosecutors filed a criminal complaint charging Tsarnaev with a role in the bombings. That action led directly to the improvised court hearing in the hospital the following morning at which U.S. Magistrate Judge Marianne Bowler told Tsarnaev he did not have to answer questions and could have a lawyer.
[quote]And he apparently did stop, though other cases in recent years suggest that silence won't necessarily last. Could that first hearing on Monday have been delayed?
[quote]The hearing is supposed to take place "without unnecessary delay," according to the federal rules, sometimes within a matter of hours. The rules governing such hearings, known as an initial appearance, require the judge to tell a defendant of his rights, Justice Department spokesman Dean Boyd said. "The prosecutors and FBI agents in Boston were advised of the scheduled initial appearance in advance of its occurrence."
[quote]...But California Democratic Rep. Adam Schiff, a former federal prosecutor, said he has questions about how the court proceeding came about. "I would have thought the public exception rule would have allowed more time for the questioning of the suspect prior to the arraignment and/or advising of rights," Schiff said.
[quote]A fellow Democrat, Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, agreed that some questions remain about when the judge arrived and whether she interrupted questioning. But, Levin said, " we do know there was 16 hours of questioning and that they got very detailed information."
[quote]Withholding a criminal suspect's Miranda rights becomes a legal issue only if authorities try to use what they learned during the questioning.
[quote]In fact, prosecutors probably will want to introduce Tsarnaev's confession as evidence against him.
[quote]Tsarnaev apparently stopped talking to investigators once Bowler appointed the Federal Public Defender's office in Boston to represent him.
[quote]But that may not be final. Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab of Nigeria, convicted of trying to blow up a packed jetliner using a bomb sewn into his underwear on Christmas Day 2009, also initially answered investigators' questions and then clammed up once he was read his rights, only to start cooperating again.
- Fox News has been freaking out about the fact that the judge appeared after only 16 hours of questioning.
It sounds like Dzhokhar may be getting better. Wonder what his fans will think about his mugshot?
- [quote] Goodness, those science PhDs really lend credibility to this scientific observation, don't they?
The Muslim students were also PhD students in the sciences. Good old America allowed thousands of students from Muslim countries to come to the US and study physics for 40 years. They probably still allow it, even though it leads to things like.. oh, you know.. Pakistan building nuclear bombs.
And my friends (physicists) thought it was funny that the Muslim guys couldn't get enough of porn. This was in the 80s and 90s. They all wanted to fuck blonde girls, too. It was like a fetish.
And it's funny -- there was a thread about "things that tv shows get wrong" but I have to say that "The Big Bang Theory" is pretty close when it comes to portraying graduate physics students.
- [quote] "In one of those trips, in April 2012, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is photographed in New York's Times Square. One person pictured with him in Times Square remained in federal custody Thursday, as he's been for the last six days, on alleged visa violations.
Oh, I'm sure it was just a couple of guys hanging out, sparkin up a few blunts and posing with plushies. And "visa violations"? I'm sure all foreign students have them. They're just regular guys; they weren't planning any bombings. Poor Dzhokhar was the cute, quiet one. He was just bullied by Tamerlan, that's all. It will all come out as soon as his lawyer explains everything to us about how innocent Dzhokhar is.
- I notice the media is doing an Eric Harris/Dylan Klebold thing with these two bombers.
Eric Harris was the meanie; Dylan Klebold was sweet. Eric was the mastermind: Dylan was easily led. Eric was a sociopath; Dylan was a depressed, mixed-up kid.
I wonder if the media has decided Jahar was the sweet, mixed up, easily led kid because he wore his baseball cap backwards and had curly hair like Dylan did.
- R241, I think that many have decided that based on interviews with friends and family.
I will be interested to find out if he has any sadness about what he did to all of those people.
- Any ideas about this "Misha" person?
I'm wondering if the family made him up in case the kids got caught.
Also thinking his name could be a anagram.
- R238's link is nuts. I can't believe that this murderer has so many fangurls.
Why are some people so unable to believe that evil can come in a cute, handsome package? Are they really THAT superficial?
These teen girls really have turned Dzhokhar into the new One Direction.
- They used remote control units from toy cars to set off the bombs. The dead bomber bought the gun powder at a local fireworks factory in February.
- Fangurls don't matter cause the all turn in to FRAUS.
- Did Tamerlan speak with an accent?
- The cops admitted that they shot up the boat. One cop started shooting and then the others shot up the boat until the capt called a cease fire. Makes the bomber more "sympathetic" since cops shot at unarmed person hitting him in the neck.
- Now, almost a week after the Tsarnaev brothers fought a rolling street battle with dozens of heavily armed police officers, we learned Wednesday night that they had only a single handgun, according to sources who spoke with ABC News and the AP, something that directly contradicts what officials had previously said.
Here are some of the biggest changes to facts released in this investigation:
Suspects’ arms – After the manhunt, Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis said the brothers were “heavily armed” and numerous reports detailed a fairly extensive arsenal. According to a New York Times report from April 21 citing a law enforcement official, “The authorities found an M-4 carbine rifle … two handguns and a BB gun.” Now unnamed sources say there was only a single 9mm pistol between the two brothers. Indeed, photos of the shootout suggest only one brother had a weapon.
Boat gunfight? – Police initially reported that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev fired on police when they found him hiding in a boat Friday night. “It was back and forth … yes — he was firing,” Watertown Police Chief Ed Deveau told CNN Saturday (though the FBI cautioned at the time that only federal authorities had official information). In its definitive “tick tock” of the events, the Washington Post reported that the suspect inside the boat “was shooting back.” But later, the Washington Post and the AP reported yesterday that Tsarnaev was unarmed when police found him after what what was described as a gunfight. As it turns out, police may have been spooked by an errant shot, and fired into the boat, but apparently zero shots came out.
7 -Eleven and the MIT officer – Initial reports suggested the brothers tried to hold up a 7-Eleven, and then killed an MIT officer who either responded to the robbery or just happened to be in the area. But days later, authorities revealed that the holdup was committed by different suspects and the confusion was caused by the close proximity of the two events. It’s still unknown exactly why the brothers killed the police officer.
Carjacking – Some reports indicate that the person whom the brothers carjacked escaped while they inexplicably went into a store to buy snacks, while others say the brothers let the victim go because he wasn’t American. It’s also still unclear which brother stole the black SUV, and which drove the Honda that followed.
Trip to NYC - What the suspects did after the bombing remains a mystery, but one detail that emerged was that they were planning to head to New York City — to party. That’s what New York Police Commissioner Ray Kelly said yesterday. But today, NBC News reports the brothers discussed trying to detonate a bomb in Times Square, but that the plan was not well developed and “aspirational at most.”
- R244, it's called hybristophilia, or "Bonnie and Clyde Syndrome." It refers to people (usually women) who are sexually aroused or attracted to dangerous men. Bonnie, who was otherwise intelligent and vivacious, seemed to get involved with violent criminals. Her husband was serving a prison sentence when she hooked up with Clyde, who was on the lam.
Other examples of hybristophilia: Caril Fugate & Charles Starkweather, Charles Manson groupies, and the women who married Ted Bundy and Richard Ramirez in jail.
These tween girls who are professing their love for Dzhokhar/Jahar only see a cute, young man. He could've blown up and entire kindergarten school, but as long as it didn't directly affect them, it wouldn't matter as long as he was cute.
ON a side note, when we read A STREETCAR NAMED DESIRE in high school, I remember a lot of the girls were especially upset with the Stanley character because of the way he mistreated his wife and Blanche. They also couldn't understand why "idiot Stella" would go back to him and stay with him at the end after raping her sister. But when we watched the movie afterward, it's like it was all forgotten. A lot of them were immediately smitten by young Marlon Brando -- and who wouldn't be? But it's funny how appearances can make a difference. Some said, "I can see why she went back," and one even said (jokingly, I hope), "If he was my husband, I'd let him slap me around if I could wake up to that every morning."
- [quote]Did Tamerlan speak with an accent?
I would assume so. He was around 15 when he came to the US. My sister who was also 15 when we were adopted has a thick-Spanish accent. I was 8 and I don't have an accent. Dzhokhar was a year younger than that so I don't think he has one. I read that the cut-off point for accents is around 12 years old.
- [quote]Carjacking – Some reports indicate that the person whom the brothers carjacked escaped while they inexplicably went into a store to buy snacks, while others say the brothers let the victim go because he wasn’t American. It’s also still unclear which brother stole the black SUV, and which drove the Honda that followed.
There's a story in the Boston Globe giving a first hand account of what happened by the guy who was carjacked. He's a Chinese national and sounds like a pretty smart guy.
"The 26-year-old Chinese entrepreneur had just pulled his new Mercedes to the curb on Brighton Avenue to answer a text when an old sedan swerved behind him, slamming to a stop. A man in dark clothes got out and approached the passenger window. It was nearly 11 p.m. last Thursday.
The man rapped on the glass, speaking quickly. Danny, unable to hear him, lowered the window — and the man reached an arm through, unlocked the door, and climbed in, brandishing a silver handgun.
“Don’t be stupid,” he told Danny. He asked if he had followed the news about the previous Monday’s Boston Marathon bombings. Danny had, down to the release of the grainy photos of suspects less than six hours earlier.
“I did that,” said the man, who would later be identified as Tamerlan Tsarnaev. “And I just killed a policeman in Cambridge.”
He ordered Danny to drive — right on Fordham Road, right again on Commonwealth Avenue — the beginning of an achingly slow odyssey last Thursday night and Friday morning in which Danny felt the possibility of death pressing on him like a vise."
The rest of the story is at the link.
- I feel kinda sorry for Dzhkokar, at only 19 his life is essentially over.
- If he was ugly and didn't have pics that looked like they were from Tiger Beat no one would give a fuck..
The young Indian Brown student who killed himself is deserving of pity...
- [quote]I feel kinda sorry for Dzhkokar, at only 19 his life is essentially over.
Well, you probably still have both your legs, asswipe.
- Why feel sorry for him, r255? Aside from the fact that his life is not over, he still has it, although he took the lives of others, wanted to kill more and has ruined the lives of the survivors, everything he did was by his own choice. Whatever happens to him now is the result of his own actions.
- Anybody catch the story on NPR yesterday about law enforcement searching Watertown residents' homes during the lockdown? How residents were forced to comply at gunpoint?
I don't have the link, it aired yesterday afternoon.
- The cops were completely out of control.
Brandishing guns at citizens holding their babies, shooting scores of bullets into the boat which contained an unarmed suspect they needed valuable information from.
This is NOT the kind of police force anyone should want.
- He has been moved to a different hospital.
- These Chechens sure love boxing, here's a picture of their young murderous strongman Ramzan Kadyrov looking super excited to meet Mike Tyson. Handsome devil.
According to the Moscow Times: [quote]Chechen President Ramzan Kadyrov owns no cars and lives in a cramped 36-square-meter apartment in Grozny, making him one of Russia's poorest regional leaders — at least on paper.
But he has enough money to throw a lavish birthday party attended by the likes of Hillary Swank.
- "I feel kinda sorry for Dzhkokar, at only 19 his life is essentially over."
That's a pretty bizarre statement. He chose to do what he did.
- His mother was in on it! Dead bomber called mom right after bombing and said everything is great and praised allah or allah's will or some crap, he also called his mom during the shootout to say goodbye.
Now I read in the newspaper that the mother's name was also in database along with dead bomber.
- He has been moved to a Federal Prison. He's in for a tough time unless he can find his own kind in there. But if the govt is smart they'll put each terrorist in a separate prison. You don't want them to meet up and start hatching other plans.
- CUTE boys like he don't go around killing people.
I'm just sayin'
- Chechen president, Kadyrov, says the brothers are a product of American upbringing.
- He looks like a rat. I don't get the cute thing at all.
- it's the hair. he has dreamy curls.
- Can someone explain why taxpayers were paying for this terrorists education when other students can't even get a government student loan?
That's the only detail I am interested in knowing.
- R262 There are reports that the Russians wiretapped the Tsarnaeva's phones after becoming suspicious of their activities, and they heard the mother and the older brother discuss a jihad attack. They also heard the mother discuss it with a suspected terrorist in Russia.
- I was just reading what r270 is talking about.
Russia didn't tell the FBI about what they heard on the wiretap, or even that they had tapped her phone. If they had, the FBI would have probably severely elevated their analysis of the family.
- The FBI may well be trying to cover its ass.
- Why would Russia bother to say anything at all then? Just so we could hate them when it turned out they knew a lot more but wouldn't say?
- Wow! I didn't hear that R270. After all of this happened and the media began contacting the MB's family members, a friend mine said immediately after seeing the uncle on TV that the family had to be involved. Crazy.
- Sleeper cell.
- I thought it was odd that Russia was sending its condolences immediately after the bombing, even before we knew who the suspects were. It is all making more sense now.
- [quote] he also called his mom during the shootout to say goodbye.
He also called the aunt and uncle in Toronto who claimed they hadn't spoken to him in years.
- The whole family's story is bizarre. How about the reports that the father returned o Dagestan because the mother and son were becoming too religious.
A man believes that his family is too Islamic, so he leaves and returns to an Islamic country? Fail. He would have stayed in America. And then, lo and behold, the wife is also in Dagestan?
And the daughter randomly writes, "God is great. I love my family," on her FB immediately after the bombings?
And one of the daughters was caught by police using her friend's identity?
And the aunt and uncle in Canada who haven't spoken to the bombers for years are on the phone with one of them?
And theMSM wont mention what uncle Ruslan does for a living, but we know he was married to the daughter of a top CIA official. And uncle Ruslan is one of the people pushing the "Tamerlan was brainwashed by an Albanian convert named Misha" meme. Please.
- Mr. Ruslan Tsarni, a U.S. citizen, has over 10 years of professional experience in oil and gas legislation and corporate law. Previously, Mr. Tsarni served as Corporate Counsel of Nelson Resources Limited Group of companies, as well as Managing Director of several of its operating subsidiaries, responsible for all matters relating to corporate governance and placements and filing requirements under the securities regulations of Toronto Stock Exchange and AIM. He worked with financial institutions and banks on raising funds for acquisition and development of the assets operated by Nelson’s subsidiaries, as well as managed legal and administrative matters for all such subsidiaries. From 1999 to 2001, Mr. Tsarni worked as Head of Legal Affairs of Golden Eagle Partners LLC where he developed downstream and upstream oil and gas businesses in Kazakhstan and served as Managing Director of its wholly owned subsidiary Tobe LLP. From 1998 to 1999 Mr.Tsarni worked as Senior Associate with Salans Hertzfeld & Heilbronn providing legal advise to major multinational companies on different aspects of Kazakhstan legal issues on development of mineral resources, corporations, taxation, currency, customs, employment, banking, bankruptcy and trade marks. From 1994 to 1996, Mr. Tsarni served as a consultant for Financial Markets International LLC and Arthur Andersen LLP contracted by USAID for projects aimed to develop securities markets in Central Asia, where he trained corporate governance and corporate finance principals to state and private companies
- [quote] Mr. Tsarni served as a consultant for Financial Markets International LLC and Arthur Andersen LLP [bold].contracted by USAID for projects aimed to develop securities markets in Central Asia, [/bold] where he trained corporate governance and corporate finance principals to state and private companies
USAID = CIA
USAID provides economic, development and humanitarian assistance around the world in support of the foreign policy goals of the United States ...
- Uncle Ruslan is married to the daughter of a top CIA official? This is getting interesting.
- I'm still not understanding why the father, a prosecuting attorney, ended up fixing cars in a parking lot.
- That tends to be the route for many immigrants with professional backgrounds, R282. And it's a very embittering experience for many to resort to manual labor which is pretty much all that is available with their language skills. I used to teach ESL and had adult students from all over eastern Europe with all sorts of professional backgrounds: engineers, lawyers, Ph.D. degreed people, teachers among others who suddenly found themselves as employable as the Mexican sitting next to them who had six years of schooling tops.
There were always a few who were miffed about this and carried a sense of entitlement. But what did they expect?
- Sad, but yes, it's their choice.
- Interesting background about the brothers.
- I want to know why we haven't heard from Tamz' wife. She had to know something was up. Who was watching their baby on April 15?
Also, her parents put their house in Rhode Island up for sale right after this happened. If they were giving the daughter money and she was using it for terrorist acts, could they be liable for financing terrorism?
- The FBI took a DNA sample from her today.
- Financing terrorists? The bombs were made with $400 worth of powder and assorted nuts and bolts. The brothers had one gun between them.
- [quote]And the daughter randomly writes, "God is great. I love my family," on her FB immediately after the bombings?
Can you post a link?
[quote]Also, her parents put their house in Rhode Island up for sale right after this happened. If they were giving the daughter money and she was using it for terrorist acts, could they be liable for financing terrorism?
It doesn't look like the parent's house is on the market.
- An Armenian instructed them on Islam? That sounds well, unbelievable.
- The story gets stranger and stranger.
*The younger brother sold pot on campus. I don't believe for a second the older brother was unaware that the younger brother got high. Was the younger brother dealing to help the older brother make the rent?
*The wife worked and worked and worked and put up with an abusive husband. Okay--but something does not add up here. Can't put my finger on it but there's something wrong with the story.
*The mother and father are loons.
*I think the uncle contacted the Russians about his nephew.
- [quote] That tends to be the route for many immigrants with professional backgrounds, [R282]. And it's a very embittering experience for many to resort to manual labor which is pretty much all that is available with their language skills.
Yet his brother Ruslan speaks English fluently and is an executive in the oil industry who secured oil contracts in Kazakhstan for USAID, a CIA front organization. Methinks Uncle Ruslan goes with the flow of money while his brother may have refused to go along with him. Surely Ruslan could use an attorney at one of the organizations where he worked. I think this may be what they fell out over.
Ruslan is mixed up in a money laundering scheme uncovered by Sweden, and has connections to a Kazakh billionaire who absconded with a lot of rubles. Seems funny that Ruslan is such a high roller, married to the daughter of a CIA official, and his brother is some nobody car mechanic in Boston.
Notice how the media, after plastering Uncle Ruslan all over tv, radio, newspapers and the Internet, has dropped him? Reporters asked Ruslan what he did for a living and Ruslan replied, "I work! I work!" and nobody followed up on that. Shouldn't reporters have reported more about uncle Ruslan, since he's such a swell guy?
Isn't it odd there's no further mention of him?
- [quote]The FBI took a DNA sample from her today.
She had to have agreed voluntarily because otherwise they couldn't do that without a court order and they have no grounds to get such a court order.
- [quote] *I think the uncle contacted the Russians about his nephew
Oh dear. You need to investigate Uncle Ruslan a little further, unlike the US media, who immediately left his house and never bothered to find out and publicize what Uncle Ruslan does for a living and who he is married to. Big news blackout on those facets of Uncle Ruslan's life. In fact, the media has reported nothing about Uncle Ruslan's life before or after his pro-American rant for the camera. It's as if he only existed on the planet for those few minutes.
- [quote] Reporters asked Ruslan what he did for a living and Ruslan replied, "I work! I work!" and nobody followed up on that. Shouldn't reporters have reported more about uncle Ruslan, since he's such a swell guy?
The linked LA Times article details uncle Ruslan's employment history.
- They found female DNA on one of the bombs, R293.
- [quote] The linked LA Times article details uncle Ruslan's employment history.
The times article about the brothers at 285? I didn't see anything about Ruslan
- I take it back. The uncle's work history wasn't in the LA Times article. I have to look for it. But he had worked for a couple of D.C. law firms...
- She might have made stew in one of the pressure cookers.
- Yeah? You're nothing but a rotten, crooked bomber.... supplying the grease that makes this shitty Islamic rage work. You think your life's a mystery? There isn't a dirty bomb in this entire world that I don't know about, and YOUR hand is on EVERY ONE of them... you REEK OF IT!
- [quote]The younger brother sold pot on campus.
Translation: he sold dime bags and 1/8ths in order to afford his own stash.
- After the call between Zubeidat Tsarnaev and Tamerlan was intercepted by Russian wiretaps in early 2011 why did they allow Tamerlan to travel to Dagestan in early 2012 and Zubeidat to move back later 2012?
- The uncle was briefly married many years ago to a woman whose father worked for the CIA. Big deal. Or are some idiots trying to claim this as "proof" that the Boston bombings are some kind of CIA stich-up. Like, how would that work? CIA uses its recruit Ruslan Tsarni to fabricate Muslim bombings so the US can go to war with Iran, and so he implicates his peace-loving nephews because he didn't think this might cause problems for him? Or, Uncle Ruslan is an Islamic terrorist, like his nephews; in fact, the whole of the CIA is an Islamic terrorist outfit?
OMG! He worked for law firms in DC? There must be a conspiracy in there somewhere.
For the idiot moron conspiracy theorist who says uncle Ruslan has disappeared. No he hasn't, he's just trying to get on with his life. This is a very unpleasant event and initially he felt he had to speak out, especially since the media were chasing him, but he's not a public figure and he may just want the situation around him to calm down. Why should the US media be hanging around his house all the time?
I just did a troll-dar. What a freak the tinhat conspiracy theorist is.
- I'm fascinated by women like Catherine Russell. What could ever possess a modern, western woman to get together with someone like Tsarnaev? She converted, covered herself from head to to, and worked 70 hours a week to support her ne'er do well abusive husband who showed absolutely no inclination to work
- he must have mentally bullied her
- [quote]he must have mentally bullied her
Abusers begin by isolating their victims, then they work at systematically destroying the victim's self-esteem.
From what we've seen of his family, he saw how that worked from the time he was a child.
- Taxpayers gave them over $100,000
- There are no words.
- The Russians have a recording from 2011 of the mother talking to her oldest bomber son about jihad.
- Russian authorities have told U.S. investigators they recorded a 2011 telephone conversation between Boston bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev and his mother in which the pair discussed jihad, according to a source briefed on the investigation.
The conversation, which the Russians have said was captured electronically via a wiretap, was not presented to U.S. authorities until after the April 15 bombing that killed three people and injured 264 near the finish line of the Boston Marathon, according to the source.
Tamerlan Tsarnaev also mentioned the possibility of a trip to Palestine during the conversation with mom Zubeidat Tsarnaeva, the source said.
- They started receiving these benefits under Republican governors. Jane Swift in 2002 and Mitt Romney from 2003 to 2007.
- "I'm fascinated by women like Catherine Russell. What could ever possess a modern, western woman to get together with someone like Tsarnaev?"
Physical or sexual abuse by father/uncle/brother/cousin.
I am NOT one of your faaaaaaaannnnsssssssss!!!
- Didn't she also dropout of college, R304?
- Dzhokhar has a sexy voice and that video with his niece was so cute. I find it hard to believe he could do all these things people are accusing him of.
- So send him a teddy bear to make him feel better, R315. You do realize you're a moron, don't you?
- What kind of mother sends her own son to die!
- [quote] For the idiot moron conspiracy theorist who says uncle Ruslan has disappeared.
Nobody is saying Ruslan "disappeared." He's been dropped by the media. He's only "disappeared" off the media's radar screen. Why?
He's not "a lawyer in DC." He's an oil executive who spent 10 years working for Halliburton in one way or another. Ruslan was a top executive for Big Sky, Wphich used to be known as China Energies Venture Corp. It's now a bankrupt US corporation run by a long term Halliburton executive
Ruslan is currently involved in an international criminal investigation into a Kazakh billionaire banker-turned-fugitive alleged to have absconded with $6 billion from Kazakhstan’s BTA Bank
Prince Andrew had a home that was sold for $5M above the asking price to the son-in-law of Kazakhstan's president for life, an oil oligarch named Kukibayev
Oligarch Kukibayev’s used money laundered through a network of offshore companies to attempt to hide his purchase of Prince Andrew’s crib, which emerged during a legal battle between another billionaire Kazakh oligarch, Mukhtar Ablyazov, and BTA Bank, from which Kazakhstan claims Ablyazov embezzled a very cool $6 billion dollars.
And this is where “Uncle Ruslan” Tsarni comes in.
The purchase of the Prince’s estate was put together, according to prosecutors in Italy and Switzerland, by a group of oil executives who comprise “a network of personal and business relationships” allegedly used for “international corruption,” reported The London Telegraph.
Tsarni, called “a US lawyer who has had dealings in Kazakh business affairs,” by the Sunday Times, clearly appears to be a member of that network.
The Sunday Times reported, “A statement by Ruslan Zaindi Tsarni was given in the High Court in December, claiming that Kulibayev bought Sunninghill and properties in Mayfair with $96 million derived from a complex series of deals intended to disguise money laundering.”
“Tsarni alleged that the money came from the takeover of a western company, which had been used as a front to obtain oil contracts from the Kazakh state.” The “western company” used to launder the money which the Sunday Times referred to is Big Sky Energy Corporation, where Ruslan Tsarni was a top executive.
This is no "conspiracy theory," this is real life. It's how the world works For Russian oil oligarchs.
And nobody said that the CIA is behind the bombings. Perhaps Rislan's brother was disgusted by Ruslan and his corrupt connections and the family became more involved in the North Caucasus insurgency in order to bring down the Chechen president, a mega-corrupt puppet of the Russian federation. People like Ruslan are on the side of the Chechen president and make a lot of money. Maybe the brother didn't want anything to do with his bother's lifestyle choice and sees his brother as a traitor to his people. It would explain why the brother was a car mechanic and not in business with his brother.
The only "conspiracy" is on the part of the media, who are reporting on everyone in the Tsarnaev family except Ruslan (who changed his name to Tsarni).
You need to develop your reading comprehension skills. There's nothing loony, idiotic or moronic about any of this information. Any Chechen involved with the CIA is involved in international corruption. It's the way of the world. Ruslan chose his path, his brother and his family chose theirs.
- R318, great info. thanks! Yeah, it's sad but true, lots of funny money biz happening these days, from all parts of the world. Just look at who is buy up the lux properties in major cities, Russians, Chinese etc.
- R303, Do you not believe in international criminal gangs? Have you never heard of the Russian mob in America? How do you suppose poppies from Afghanistan wind up as heroin on the streets of the US? Through international criminal gangs. And if you don't think the CIA has used criminal gangs, think again. All the way back in WWII the OSS (precursor to the CIA) used members of the Mafia for intelligence during the invasion of Italy. The CIA admitted it was involved in bringing crack into the US and using the drug money to arm the insurgency against the Sandanistas in Nicaragua because Congress wouldn't fund a secret war there.
None of these things are "crazy conspiracies." They're real. The Mafia was used by the FBI to infiltrate and take over unions. Police forces looked the other way (but didn't allow the mafia to take over THEIR unions).
Chechnya is a "republic" run by a criminal syndicate. The current rebels in Dagestan are trying to destabilize the area in order to make it more difficult for the Russians to run Chechnya, Kazakhstan, Dagestan and ingushetia. That's not to say the insurgents aren't criminals. They're just not pro-Russian criminals, like the government of Chechnya and other Caucasus Muslim areas.
There are winners and losers in the world of "legitimate" international crime. Ruslan thinks he is a winner by making a lot of money and having power through very high connections. He considers his brother a loser for not going along with the program.
Perhaps both Ruslan and his brother are wrong, instead of just the brother being wrong.
- [quote]I'm fascinated by women like Catherine Russell. What could ever possess a modern, western woman to get together with someone like Tsarnaev? She converted, covered herself from head to to, and worked 70 hours a week to support her ne'er do well abusive husband who showed absolutely no inclination to work
Have you seen pictures of Tamerlan? He was hot, sexy, foreign with an accent, a flashy dresser and as a boxer, had a hint of danger to him. The stuff of most women's secret fantasies.
- [quote]The current rebels in Dagestan are trying to destabilize the area in order to make it more difficult for the Russians to run Chechnya, Kazakhstan, Dagestan and ingushetia.
Kazakhstan is a separate country on its own not part of the Russian Federation like Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingushetia.
- [quote]Have you seen pictures of Tamerlan? He was hot, sexy, foreign with an accent, a flashy dresser and as a boxer, had a hint of danger to him. The stuff of most women's secret fantasies.
Tamerlan was like the Chechen Billy Bigelow -- hunky, sexy, and flashy, but an abusive, deadbeat bum. (Sorry, just got done watching the Live from Lincoln Center CAROUSEL.)
- So many decades of American involvement in the Middle east, to secure national interests, stealing oil... everybody knows this. The mighty superpower America against lesser countries. CIA arming Al-Qaeda against the soviet union.
Endless civilian casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan.
9/11 happens, and everybody down there is evil and irrational religious people. Everybody forgets about decades of American involvement; the jidahists have just sprung up from nowhere, evil crazies. Killing innocents is wrong no matter what, but tell me, who's in the right when both do it? America comes with superior weapons and kills hordes of innocent people down there. They try to fight back as their home country is destroyed and their relatives die, meanwhile the country of America is untouched.
What America calls 'terrorism', they call 'war'. America kills innocents down there, they go to America to retaliate. Is it wrong? Yes. But is it also understandable? Yes.
Is it understandable that jihad has grown? Yes. Many jihadist saudis went to fight in Chechenya when they were in war with Russia. 'Jihad' is just something that has grown and become a common cause for them because they have a common enemy... who used Christianity as reason to go to war, thanks Bush. America's foreign policy has been incredibly stupid and power-crazed, thanks to that jihad has been allowed to grow and unite people under a common cause.
And Russia? Russia is powerful, corrupt, oppressive. Chechenya has fought for independence for so long. What's wrong with fighting for indepence from a corrupt superpower? Oh, it's wrong because they're 'terrorists'...
The point is, I'm sick of Americans claiming their pain is the only pain and they are not at fault at all, everyone else is evil and irrational. I'm sick of them cheering for their government without questioning. Is Bradley Manning forgotten already?
And people are cheering for death to Tsarnaev. How can you be so blood thirsty and revenge obsessed. This all makes me sick. Look to Norway, where they walked holding roses in the streets. And bashing his mother, even before the news of the phone tapping. Yes, she's evil for being in denial about her sons... I would say that is a normal psychological reaction to something like this. What her sons did was wrong and horrible, but the people who knew and loved them, they are in pain as well.
- From that video, I'd say Jahar has a hint of an accent too. If they didn't speak Chechen well what language were they speaking to each other in the jacked merc? Russian? Jahar also didn't have a FB account instead using Russian social media.
- r324, the Russians fear if they allow Chechnya to secede, it would cause a domino effect from the Caucuses to Vladivostok. The Caucuses have been volatile for thousands of years, even now they're fighting amongst themselves.
- Jahar didn't have a girlfriend in high school or college? He just hung out with those Kazakh guys.
- I think FBI and the CIA were probably dismissive when contacted about the brothers Tsarnaev by the Russians: "Chechnya is Russia's problem not ours". Now it's come back to bite them, they're frantically trying to coverup by blaming the FSB for not following up with more detailed information when it was up to them to take the offer since it was America, not Russia, under threat.
- Could someone repost that video of Dzhokhar/Jahar with his niece that people have referenced a couple times? I went back a few pages but didn't find anything.
- Here r329. So cute.
- [quote]Now it's come back to bite them, they're frantically trying to coverup by blaming the FSB for not following up with more detailed information when it was up to them to take the offer since it was America, not Russia, under threat
R328, the U.S. asked for more information, why Russia wanted Tamerlan checked out, but they didn't give any more until a few days ago when they mentioned the wiretap where Zubeidat alluded to jihad and discussed the possibility of her elder son going to Palestine. There was no direct threat to the U.S.
I asked this at R302, why would Russia allow Tamerlan and Zubeidat into the country after that phone call?
Also, wouldn't Russia know what Tamerlan was up to for those 6 month? He was on their radar, he was Chechen, and he traveled to Dagestan. I wonder if they'll share what they know.
Here's a link R329.
- Well, Russia had no other evidence other than that phone call, I'm not sure how many other people they were keeping tabs on, so they probably devoted more resources to higher priority rebels.
I'm sure Russia/USA knows (now) what he was up to for those 6 months but they are building up hard evidence etc.
- Wasn't there some bizarre assasination just two days before Tamerlan left to return to the U.S.?
- R324, I don't think anyone in Norway has tried to defend Breveik like you are trying to defend the Tsarnaevs.
- 334. When have I defended him? I'm only pissed about Americans refusing to accept reality, that their foreign policy sucks, that jihad is NOT something that just came out of nowhere as a "we hate america because freedom and we're just crazy religious and nothing has anything to do with your foreign policy" and that everybody is yelling for blood and saying they don't care about giving him a fair trial. The stuff I've read everywhere the last time has been extremely pathetic.
And I've lived in Norway, so I know well that they handled the Breivik case -- he killed 77 people -- way better than what America does. Nobody thinks it's great to cry for torture and murder without even a trial there.
- These guys did this for kicks. It was not because of some sober analysis of US foreign policy.
- Americans never learn. Right now, as I type, there is immense domestic and foreign pressure on Barack Obama to intervene in Syria based on unverifiable evidence. Wasn't he elected to get the U.S. out of two wars?
- 336. My comment wasn't really meant just for this case, but with the attitude America has towards muslims and terrorism in general.
Which I've seen so much ignorant said these last two weeks, from people who are supposed to be reasonable adults. The bloodlust of America is different than that of the Scandinavian social democracies who respect the law and due process.
It makes me disappointed that people judge and get consumed by their anger. And bash people (the grieving mother in denial, at least before the jihad phonecall thing, they were bashing her before that, and the friends who knew him and loved him were bashed on twitter, even though they must be in pain too; after all, they lost someone they though to be a friend, it must hurt, yet people don't have ANY empathy) for nothing. It makes me sick.
People are not interested in learning anything, they just want blood. They don't appreciate the law. And they don't understand that it must be hard to have known and loved someone who comitted an evil act. People have no sympathy for them. Yes, the victims are the ones most deserving of sympathy, but that doesn't mean the supects friends deserve to be hated.
But I know I shouldn't even care, because America will never change.
- Well I could understand the bashing of the 'grieving' mother. She was nuts claiming the bombing was a hoax and it was paint instead of blood. She has to know full well that her surviving son has confessed to this and she still won't shut up with her conspiracy theories. And since they've talked to his lawyer they know what's what so it's all a big act for them.
There are lots of grieving parents of killers that don't put on this kind of show. You don't think batman killer james Holmes, don't have parents? Yet they're not on TV bashing the victims. How about the Sandy Hook killer's father & brother? They haven't had off kilter press conferences.
And while she's probably not a jihadist it seems she did strongly encourage his extremist views & even believed 9/11 was a hoax done to make muslims look bad. She's batshit crazy and the worse kind of parent--the ones who would look at her son building bombs & talking jihad & even knowing the FBI was investigating would still swear how innocent he was. When you have those kinds of blinders on, you don't do anything to stop any harm from happening.
- 339. Yeah, of course I agree that now, after things have been revealed, the mother seems suspect.
But that wasn't my point though.
All the comments people wrote before any of that got out about how she should be deported and how she should also be killed and how she had no right to grieve over her sons because of the true victims, etc.
It's sickening how judgmental many Americans are, and how little they understand about psychology and how pain can mess you up. Now that she seems to be involved, it's different; but before, I didn't think it weird at all that she was in denial, and yeah the stuff she said was nuts, which only made me more sure it could very well be she was mad with grief, unable to see things clearly; it's a common reaction, and a mother loves her children unconditionally.
Yet everybody reacted with primitive rage on her, which disappointed me. She had not been proven to be involved in any way. And it is the media that's flying around them to get interviews. If you're grieving, angry and in denial and there are dozens of journalists outside the door... well. It wasn't right of her, but it's still understandable.
I realize I sound like I'm defending her, but really, I'm sad about what I've read of comments from people these last weeks, that's all. She could have just been a mother in denial and in pain, yet everybody still had no empathy for her situation. How it must be for a mother to lose her children, finding out they comitted a horrible act, how hard that must be. That's what pisses me off. Now they all don't need to feel bad I guess, since it's pretty clear she supports jihad.
Of course, this doesn't really matter anymore. I just wish people would be less judgmental and revenge crazed about these things.
- I have a gut feeling that the
MIT cop got killed by fellow police in a friendly fire shootout and that it was pinned on Jahar.
- Reading through his Twitter & Facebook account, the kid does not show even a trace of being a radical Muslim. He seems like such a well-adjusted person. It's scary just how normal he seems. It is very bizarre that he ended up being an accomplice to his batshit insane older brother. I'd like to think that perhaps his brother forced him to assist in the crime & he became an accomplice against his own will. The older brother did terrorize & beat up his sister. I wouldn't be surprised if Jahar was afraid of him as well.
- [quote]I have a gut feeling that the MIT cop got killed by fellow police in a friendly fire shootout and that it was pinned on Jahar
Yeah, it was Dorner.
- Russia may have withheld the wiretap info because they didn't want to acknowledge who or what they were tapping. It's equivalent to protecting a source.
I must have missed it. What exactly did the mother say about jihad? It's not enough that she just mentioned it or talked about it - what way did she mention it? And was it presented in her native language or are we being presented with a translation and by whom?
- [quote]Now that she seems to be involved, it's different; but before, I didn't think it weird at all that she was in denial, and yeah the stuff she said was nuts, which only made me more sure it could very well be she was mad with grief, unable to see things clearly; it's a common reaction, and a mother loves her children unconditionally.
Fortunately there are other kinds of mothers too, like Marc Dutroux's mother from Belgium, who, in 1995, wrote to prosecutors reporting that she had knowledge that her son had been keeping young girls in one of his unoccupied houses. Her son was in lead of a child prostutution ring and was later convicted.
No denial here.
- 345. Yeah, but that mother had proof. She had seen it with her own eyes. And of course I think she did right by turning him in.
But as I explained, the Tsarnaev mother was judged before we knew anything more about her part. Now it turns out she could maybe have known, and even been a part of it, and I'm not defending her for that. She should have stopped it if she knew.
But denial IS a common reaction, and it should be understood. At that point, people shouldn't have judged her, but rather stayed calm and figured that she might be crazy with grief, as so many are, especially concerning their children, and let her be instead of saying she was just a random nutcase and anti-American scum who deserved to be deported or worse, because that's what people were saying, before any more details had come out.
Again, what I tried to say was it was the judgmental reactions of people that disgusted me. Obviously I don't think highly of the Tsarnaev mother.
- R344, the AP reports that Russian intelligence officials taped a 2011 phone conversation between Boston bombing suspect Tamerlan Tsarnaev and his mother, Zubeidat, during which the two "vaguely discussed jihad." They did not say anything about an attack in the United States, though they did discuss the idea of Tamerlan going to Palestine. Tamerlan shutdown that idea because be didn't speak the language.
I assume the conversation was in their native language.
[quote]I have a gut feeling that the MIT cop got killed by fellow police in a friendly fire shootout and that it was pinned on Jahar.
Danny, the man who was carjacked, said Tamerlan mentioned killing the cop and the bombing when he got in the car.
- It is not just a mother saying "my boys are good," there are different attitudes in different cultures about truth and lying, there is nationalism, there is paranoia about the US, there's a lot of stuff
- Do you realise their native language (Chechen) may not be the same as their first language (Russian)?
- Did they speak Chechen at all in Dagestan? Tamerlan said that he was embarrassed about not knowing the language very well on his return trip.
- Native language is defined as "the language that a person has spoken from earliest childhood."
- R333, that was William Plotnikov a Russian born Canadian boxer and Canadian citizen who converted to Islam, joined the Islamist insurgent in Dagestan and was killed there by Russian security forces.
It appears Russia does have more information and had Tamerlan under surveillance while he was in Russia.
Plotnikov had been detained in Dagestan in December 2010 on suspicion of having ties to the militants and during his interrogation was forced to hand over a list of social networking friends from the United States and Canada who like him had once lived in Russia.
Tsarnaev’s name was on that list, bringing him for the first time to the attention of Russia’s secret services.
I've linked the article this information is from.
- Anyone else wonders what type of mischief Russian spies are up to these days? It's been too long since we've heard from one of their scandals, and they have become very good at assassinating people.
- r344, Russia is a police state run by current and former FSB and Army personnel.
They don't have to do anything to protect sources, because they have free rein in the country.
r347, I'm sure many immigrant families "vaguely discuss jihad", just as many poor, black mothers talk to their kids about them joining/being in gangs. It's a reality of life for them.
It doesn't mean the mother herself was a terrorist or had specific knowledge of his plot.
Of course, it doesn't eliminate it either; people do jump to conclusions out of ignorance.
- R341: there was no shoot out near the MIT officer. They shot him in cold blood.
- did you read that article that says he may have killed other people?
- What article, R356?
- I think it was in the Daily Beast. let me find it.
- R354, of course the mother was aware of their plan! Dead brother called mother after the bombing saying something to the effect of everything is great, with the blessing of allah etc.
What kind of mother sends their son to die like that?
- A mother who is a psychopath.
- [quote]Native language is defined as "the language that a person has spoken from earliest childhood."
I think most Chechens converse in Russian at the dinner table. I could be wrong. When the family was living in Kyrgyzstan, the Chechen language couldn't have been of much use to them. Explains why most of their friends are from former Soviet republics like Jahar's Kazakh friends and Misha who is said to be Armenian. They have the Russian language in common.
- Who are the rest of the guys in Dzhokhar's Time square picture? Are they immigrants too?
- [quote] Could someone repost that video of Dzhokhar/Jahar with his niece that people have referenced a couple times? I went back a few pages but didn't find anything.
[quote] Here R329. So cute.
So not cute. Kinda creepy, actually. He alternated between yelling at her to get out, and then demanding a kiss from the little girl, over and over.
With that nasty cold sore he had, he probably passed it on to her. Yuck.
- I'm glad you said that R365 because I found it to be creepy as well. I really don't know what else to say, it was just odd. I know he was playing around but something was just off.
- Article with many photos
- Do you think the older brother had size meat?
- Look at this childhood innocence in their eyes... It's just so weird how corrupted people can become.
- Dzhokhar is hot! but, I don't find the older brother attractive at all.
- [quote] Look at this childhood innocence in their eyes...
They got them bad eyes... like a gypsy.
- Get your eyes checked people, they are ugly!
- Dzhokhar is scrawny and ugly. Tamerlan, otoh, was pure sexiness.
- So much for a well-adjusted Jahar. Some of his postings according to that DM article:
[quote]In a few tweets, he talks about his roots. Last March, for instance, he used the hashtag #chechnyanpower and then wrote: 'a decade in America already, I want out'.
[quote]In February, he posted: 'Do I look like that much of a softy ... little do these dogs know they're barking at a lion.'
At least Tamerlan didn't pretend.
- Also from the DM:
[quote]A video posted on the Internet by the younger Tsarnaev with the caption 'My brother, seriously messing around' shows Tamerlan as a mesmerizing goofball, sending up Chechens, Dagestanis and other ex-Soviet minorities with comedy accents in Russian, while the cameraman, presumably Dzhokhar, laughs wildly in admiration.
So, confirmed Russian was their primary language as he's good enough to make fan of other accents.
As for his English:
[quote]Through high school, and for years afterward, Luis Vasquez thought of his classmate Tamerlan Tsarnaev as 'a big, friendly giant', who never lost the accent in his slow, deep voice.
- Really good geopolitical map of the caucuses. Shows everything. Not hard to understand why there would be a lot of Chechens in neighbouring Dagestan.
- I hate the Daily Mail, but that article is much more illuminating than any from American media:
[quote]Chechen culture encourages male bravado, something that has helped Chechens keep their identity through generations of oppression in Russia but which may make some Chechen men particularly prone to feelings of alienation. ... 'A Chechen man has, I think, a higher sense of self-worth than the average other man in Russia. It's a proud culture. And being in a situation where you are one of life's losers is particularly hard," said Bullough.
You have to understand the culture of the Caucuses to know why they've been fighting non-stop for over a thousand years.
EXCLUSIVE: Saudi Arabia 'warned the United States IN WRITING about Boston Bomber Tamerlan Tsarnaev in 2012'
Saudis developed intelligence separately from Russia, which also warned the U.S. about the accused Boston bomber
A letter to the Department of Homeland Security allegedly named Tsarnaev and three Pakistanis as potential jihadis worthy of U.S. investigation
Red flags from Saudi Arabia to have included Tsarnaev's name and information about a planned explosive attack on a major U.S. city
Saudi foreign minister, national security chief both met with Obama in the oval office in early 2013
- R378, wow, thank you for that link. Our govt is so fucked up. They are still sleeping at the wheel...
- [quote]A video posted on the Internet by the younger Tsarnaev with the caption 'My brother, seriously messing around' shows Tamerlan as a mesmerizing goofball, sending up Chechens, Dagestanis and other ex-Soviet minorities with comedy accents in Russian, while the cameraman, presumably Dzhokhar, laughs wildly in admiration.
Does anyone have a link to that video?
- Consider the source r379. It's from the unimpeachable Daily Fail.
- R382: Go watch your MSNBC and the adults will continue here.
- Happily r383. Wild guess before I go: you didn't care much the Bush admin ignored intelligence that could have prevented 9/11, did you? Yeah, that's what I thought.
- He has a mouth ready for a big cock!
- R384: ah, yeah I did. This isnt a political issue, but you will turn it into one. Go watch Maddow for today's instructions.
- Seems like you're the only one turning this into a political issue r386.
It's the Daily Mail. A right-wing tabloid rag.
- R387: ok, it's not good to read a variety of sources. It is good to think that a news item is true/false based in whether you like the politics. If your narrow viewpoint isn't served, it must be a lie.
Please show me the lies in the article posted. I posted a link and you didn't like it due to your narrow viewpoint.
- His boy pussy is so Yummy! Mmmmm....
- [quote]ok, it's not good to read a variety of sources. It is good to think that a news item is true/false based in whether you like the politics. If your narrow viewpoint isn't served, it must be a lie.
We're talking about THE DAILY MAIL here. A paper who's target audience's IQ is widely assumed to hover around room temperature. The are right-leaning sources such as WSJ, The Telegraph or Le Figaro that we would not be as quick to dismiss. But the Daily Mail? Says a lot about you if you read that.
- with the media, it only has to appear in one place, however dodgy, and another will pick it up and soon the original "source" will be forgotten. Especially if someone is pushing a political angle.
Wasn't the Clinton Lewinsky "Big Story" first printed in the National Enquirer or one of the tabloids?
- Interesting this particular "source" spoke exclusively to the daily fail of all papers.
- R378, I'm starting to think the feds here WANT these terrorist attacks to happen. There's nothing like a national tragedy to conjure up patriotism, and support for increased funding for counter-terrorism efforts.
If we got warnings from both the Russians AND the Saudis about this guy, I don't understand why we wouldn't heed them.
The Saudis warned us about Bin Laden too after they expelled him out of the country & stripped him of his citizenship in 1994 yet the Clinton & Bush admins also ignored that warning.
- these guys were not in the same league as Bin Laden
- The FBI seeing the Chechen beef with mother Russia must have thought: the enemy of our enemy is our friend, therefore dismissing the Russian warnings as their problem.
- Dzohkhar is so damn hot, I feel sorry for him having to be locked up in a cell all by himself all day. Seems really cruel to me.
- r378, i'm starting to think you're an idiot.
- Three new suspects taken into custody.
- R398: unless you can show me a link to La Figaro reporting the story, I don't believe you!
- here you go, R399
- Saudis now denying it. It will probably change soon.
R400:Oh yeah, it is real!
Made the mistake of looking at #freejahar on twitter. The little heifferz are upset that their teen god had a girlfriend, who was supposedly one of the three arrested.
- Forgot to add: looks like Dzasbdher is singing now to avoid the death penalty.
- 402: He's started cooperating again? Where did you get that from? I don't know which news site to follow that's best at quick updates.
- Who the hell is Dzasbdher?
Lots of freaking out going on at #freejahar
- He's cute, he's young, he's white, he has followers on Tweeter - if only they'd let him out, I can see a reality show built around him and his wacky family.
With Uncle Reslan as a recurring character to chew them all out.
- Yes! r406. Uncle Reslan as Aunt Sassy.
- The said thing is that I can see that too, R406.
- The three new suspects got rid of Tsarnaev's backpack when they discovered it was full of fireworks that had been drained of black powder. They bagged the backpack and Tsarnaev's laptop and tossed them into a dumpster.
- What has puzzled me is how the FBI, CIA , etc. had to release photos to public for info. They really didn't know who they were even after interviewing the elder brother a couple yrs before and investigating him? That's pretty shitty intel.
- They didn't even think "Oh hey, maybe we should check if there are anyone in Boston on our terrorism watch list!" Unbelievable.
- So the Daily Mail quietly buries the Saudi story? Quelle Surprise? Someone on this thread just realised he's an idiot.
- I thought they said on CNN the third suspect was his ex girlfriend or something, but this Robel Phillipos is a dude.
And I don't know what we're supposed to make of the Saudi story. He was photographed smiling in the hospital? Smiling? And then reports came out of him being deported, another Saudi in custody, etc, etc, it's all so confusing... And that hasty Obama meeting with two important Saudis, what was that all about? I remember Bush admitted 3 years after 9/11 to have deported about 150 Saudis right after. I'm not a conspiracy theorist, don't get me wrong, but if the media doesn't give answers to this, I gotta at least wonder.
- But only hours later, the Saudi Embassy in Washington, DC released a statement condemning the Daily Mail report as inaccurate, denying they warned US authorities about either Tsarnaev brother.
[italic]“The Saudi government had no prior information about the Boston bombers. Therefore, it is not true that any information, written or otherwise, was passed to the US Department of Homeland Security (DHS) or any other US agency in this regard,” the statement claimed.
“The Saudi government also does not have any record of any application by Tamerlan Tsarnaev for any visa to Saudi Arabia.”[/italic]
I'll stick to MSNBC, thanks.
- [quote]I thought they said on CNN
There's your first mistake. CNN is hardly reliable.
- Is Phillipos a Greek surname?
- I'm not much into conspiracies but not buying the Saudis not having this guy on their radar-- same with the US. Still saying Misha was an informant and still think it will come out the Feds worked with the older brother. The guy was over in Dagastan shopping for his jihad.
The pictures of the ugly guys under arrest today, well their pics with Jahar were up on twitter in under an hour. Reading the complaint and these three are straight up retarded.
- Reading the complaint
- R417 Why would the Saudi's have him on their radar to begin with? Did he ever visit that country?
- If you consider what happened in Texas and what happens in other areas of the world...this seems like much ado about nothing.
- The Saudi terrorists and the Chechen terrorists have close ties. Saudi jihadists have gone to Chechenya to fight for years... Chechenya has a type of conservative islam that originated in Saudia Arabia...
Bush deported 100-200 saudis right after 9/11, this Boston saudi suspect was deported. For "national security reasons" apparently.
Who knows what the heck is going on? The media just stopped reporting about it.
I'm not a conspiracy nut to ask these questions and I'm not jumping to any conclusions.
But I think of things like the recent story about the under the table ghost money CIA provided to Afghanistan and how it's made things worse, except for the warlords and the corporations. Makes me think CIA works for multi national corporations and not in the actual country's best interests.
- Link to complaint below.
R419: he would be on Saudi radar due to his Dagastan trip. The Saudis and CIA have actively run the camps for "freedom fighters." I do 100% believe he was on websites looking for connections.
- What Boston Saudi suspect? The 20 year old who was injured and reported as the first "suspect" but was cleared before the end of the day? He wasn't deported. Fox News falsely reported that it was him, but it was another Saudi with a different last name, apparently.
- How did the name Jahar occur?
- Jahar is dzhokhar's American nickname.
- Look at the map r422, Chechnya is nowhere near Saudi Arabia and there's no way he would be on their radar because he'd never been there and didn't speak Arabic. Chechens and Arabs are different peoples with different cultures. They're white and have much more in common with Georgians, Armenians and other Eastern Europeans than Arabs.
- Tamerlan played two girls against each other, dumped one for another after taking her virginity and slapping her for dressing provocatively.
- Geographic and language factors didn't keep Saudis and others from going to Afghanistan as mujahideen. He could have had contact with a Saudi national in Dagestan. Unlikely, but possible.
- I just don't get the hot thing some people have for him. He looks like a violent a-hole.
- I don't know how many times I have say this, they are feckin UGLY! Have some standards people!
- Why would the Russians allow Saudis into Dagestan?
- [quote]“He wouldn’t let me watch TV or listen to the radio. He’d say, ‘TV is the project of Satan’ and claimed Satan sent us messages through commercial music.”
I might be reading to much into this. I'm wondering if there's any chance that he might have had a psychotic break that precipitated the shift to extremist religiosity and then fed into and maintained it. Could he have had auditory hallucinations that he interpreted as messages from Satan when he listened to music?
Reportedly, the changes began in 2009 when he was 22. This is around the time that schizophrenic males have their first break. He began to cut off the few friends he had. Schizophrenics, obviously, have problems forming and maintaining relationships. He also stopped smoking pot and drinking around this time. He may have noticed that consumption increased symptoms in addition to being against Muslim tenets. Maybe the symptoms made it difficult for him to concentrate in school or not have the ability to hold it together in a work place.
Religion is a huge fixation for some schizophrenics who have sometimes highly developed delusional systems about it. Perhaps extremist Islam is both a symptom of his illness as well as serving as a coping mechanism before it sent him over the edge to want to murder. Maybe it held him together for a while.
It's just a theory and, of course, doesn't change the heinousness of the crimes.
- Isn't there rough mountainous terrain around there? How well can Russia seal its borders to hikers or horseback riders?
- R432 Lets not forget too he was a boxer and had been training since he was a kid. There could have been a lot of brain injury done to him because of that. Of course this is not an excuse, but it could explain a few things.
- From what i read, his mother told him to quit boxing since his religion is against hitting the face or something like that (don't remember). She was very upset and he wanted to move out since it was against the religion for the male to move out before marriage.
It's all his mother's fault! She's a cunt, just look at her!
- Does Jahar have the best friends in the whole world, or just the dumbest?
- Probably a bit of both. I certainly wouldn't have done what they did. I'm not THAT good of a friend.
- Jahar's riends are as dumb as he is. Seriously. So the two Kazakh guys are the ones in the NYC picture?
- [quote]Neighbors found him charming. "He was just super outgoing, wanting to make friends," said one, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "We talked about skiing, and he said, like, 'I don't have any skiing buddies. Next time you go, we should go together.'"
This is from the LA Times article. This 2007ish, a mere two years before the transformation. He goes from being someone who's gregarious and wants friends to a person who has no time for them, even the fellow Muslims at the mosque he attended? He was disruptive and argumentative there. That's a drastic personality change in the course of two years.
- yes, he changed because his life sucked, he flunked out of community college, probably no job prospects, he knocked up a girl, his american dream was becoming a nightmare...
- [quote]he flunked out of community college, probably no job prospects, he knocked up a girl,
That happens to countless people everyday, but they dont go off the rails like this one did.
"The DHS were aware of the 2012 bulletin, a Homeland Security official confirmed Tuesday night to the Daily Mail, although the agency declined to say they ever received such a warning from Saudi Arabia."
Even if it is not the Saudis, they expect us to believe they weren't in contact with older brother! The fishing expedition will continue because it is clear there is more going on here.
- I only read the last pages, so I don't know if this link has been shared. The mother sounds creepy.
Amazing how people are still trying to sell the lie that Jihad is all America's fault.It’s instructed by the Qur'an. It was followed long before America was even in existence. Enough with this lie.
- Mom not the only woman in the house shoplifting
- Mary Silberman, whose apartment backs up to Tsarnaev's Cambridge home, said she often heard loud arguments late at night that mostly consisted of a woman's voice yelling at a man.
'It wasn't enough to call the police,' Silberman told Reuters. 'It didn't sound like anyone was in physical danger.'
But the shouting was often loud enough to keep her awake at night. She could also hear the couple's daughter, Zahara, now three years old, wailing at night and she often wondered why the mother wasn't responding, she said.
As the girl grew into a toddler, Silberman said she would see Zahara staring out the window.
- The "identity" thing is big - angry males that feel they don't have a big enough position in society so they look for an angry group to feel bigger - Muslim fanatics, skinheads, KKK, gansta etc etc
- Is it wrong that I'm thinking about the Vaseline in Dzhokhar's room?
- Taking the "identity" theories further; the brothers obviously were finding their identities in their home country. Dzhokhar was reported to have contacted a professor to give him information and reading about Chechenya.
Given that Chechenya has been fighting for their independence for so long, I think even from the 1600s. Stalin falsely accused them of working for the nazis, sent away a 3rd or so to Russia, killed loads... All of this made Chechenya a breeding ground for incredibly violent jihad terrorists.
Basically, for two brothers seeking out their roots and their identities, Chechenya is not a good place to discover a rational, kind identity.
Obviously most native Chechens aren't terrorists and insurgents, they're normal civilian muslims living their lives. But two brothers learning about their unstable, war ridden home country from afar, will be likely attracted to the extreme side of things. Fighting and standing up for their country gives them a sense of identity.
Well, heck, who knows. It could be a factor. Definitely not just one thing that made them do it, but many. It could be seen as weird that they attacked the US, but I don't think so. Jihad is what unites all the fighting jihad insurgents under one cause. Saudi jihadists were known to travel to Chechenya to fight with them against Russia in the 90s. And Chechen terrorists go to fight in other places in the name of jihad. The brothers probably identified and felt part of a great, meaningful movement.
- R448: Interesting! I was hoping to find info like that. His parents went back and brother wanted to go back, so def fits into your info.
- [quote]I just don't get the hot thing some people have for him. He looks like a violent a-hole.
Maybe he just doesn't photograph well and has a certain je ne sais quoi in person. There's this personal trainer at my gym that is sex on a stick. His voice, his mannerisms, the twinkle in his eye -- stuff you can't capture in photos. But he looks somewhat "off" in pictures.
- Jihad is America's fault. Wahabbism spread because of Saudi Arabia. The USA allowed the feudal murdering Sauds to fuck over the world over and over in the last fifty years.
- The Clintons, for example, took $10 million from the Sauds for their library. And what positive influence did they have on the Sauds? Well the Sauds now say women can ride bicycles. Not drive cars, but bicycles.
- This family smells to high heaven of mental health issues.
- Yeah, it's all mental health, but everyone will be looking for some great "political" meaning.
- [quote] Tamerlan played two girls against each other, dumped one for another after taking her virginity and slapping her for dressing provocatively.
I still think he's a bit of a dandy!
Nosey babushka wearing Dagestani neighbor
- FBI/DHS were notified about Tamerlan. Russia warned. Saudi Arabia warned. Janet Napolitano said Homeland Security "pinged".
Tamerlan was in the nation terrorism watch list.
He had been questioned by the FBI before.
And what does the FBI do? Ask the public to help identify the suspect.
Couldn't they scan the pictures to match Tamerlan's face? Couldn't they search the terrorism list for anyone on the list in Boston and dramatically narrow down the search? Maybe they did, but how fucking insane is it that they didn't think to go after him until days later?
Meanwhile they busied themselves with the lockdown. This makes me understand the ones who claim the government are drooling to militarize the country.
- I think Jahar may have been a virgin. No sign of a girlfriend anywhere. If he gets life, he'll die a virgin because he'll be in solitary, right?
- That Troy Crossley guy who's so obsessed with proving his friend Dzhokhar's innocence, maybe he was Dzhokhar's boyfriend. Look at those eyebrows.
On a more serious note, apparently Dzhokhar could escape death penalty if they make a deal where he agrees to cooperate. Will be interesting to see what happens with that.
- he has dumb eyes
- Its obvious that the older brother was the mastermind behind the whole thing. Jahar probably felt like he had to go along or was forced to. Life in prison is way too harsh of a sentence. He should only get a few years and then be allowed to get with his life.
- R460: Not sure about that. Jahar, on his own, created the instagram account where he was praising the psycho Chechen leader. He acted pretty independently in getting himself whooped up about Chechnya. Also, in the niece video , I think it went viral so we notice the supposed Al-Queda/let's jihad black banner.
From the sounds of it, the wife gave as good as she got, so Jahar may have been the same. He is the one with the smirk on his face at the marathon.
- [quote] If he gets life, he'll die a virgin because he'll be in solitary, right?
Not if I can help it!
Bubba's 10 incher in Cellblock A
- Let's no go overboard with the sympathy here. Dzhokhar may be a cutie but he was definitely not a softie.
From everything we've heard about the brother, he seemed a very dominating force, especially since their father lived far away in Russia, Tamerlan was probably a very important figure to Dzhokhar. Tamerlan was old enough when they left for the US to already be hardened by the violent Dagestan -- probably a lot more than Dzhokhar --, their father citing fears of deadly persecution because of Chechen ties for asylum. Who knows what made Tamerlan such a brutal guy, but from everything I've heard of Dagestan and Chechenya, it's not hard to imagine. He apparently came to the US two years later than the rest of the family.
I bet he was more affected than Dzhokhar, because Dzhokhar adjusted himself so well and expressed gratitude for being in the US. Tamerlan was probably too damaged to let go and forget, and Dzhokhar could easily be persuaded by him because of that.
Dzhokhar did research his home country and the conflicts there some time before the bombings.
Tamerlan was probably unable to let go of his bond to his conflicted home country.
We're not just talking about the fight for independence but the jihadi movement that's connected to it and the support Chechenya gets from jihadists from other countries. That's probably what got to them; it's the Chechen jihadists against the Russians, but also all jihadists have common enemies and they help each other. They wanted to be part of this big movement.
Dzhokhar was persuaded by his brother, but he too probably saw it as a rightful cause, especially after researching Chechenya, feeling like they must join the fight. Their roots are in an incredibly damaged conflicted country that breeds the worst terrorists... Remember the Beslan massacre of children by Chechen terrorists... who've fought for independence for so long and so violently there's nothing but anger and hate left, they couldn't possibly give up their fight after all that history, they have no boundaries, violence breeds more violence... They're the most fierce and determined fighters.
Dhokhar has his roots in this conflicted country, he found his true identity in it. He could maybe have managed to let it go and stay americanized if it weren't for his brother, but it didn't go that way. Which is sad.
- Well, we don't know what the father did. He applied for asylum and got it. I can tell you that are many fraud cases with asylum. There was a sting operation not long ago in NYC area where attorneys were rounded up for faking asylum claims for their clients etc.
The whole family is fucked up if you ask me. too bad, so sad. The mother certainly is evil, she looks it too. How can you not be fucked up with a wonderful mother like that??
- R463: that pic is of the parents holding the infant who would grow up to run over his brother with an SUV
I love how Americans can't bring themselves to fathom why immigrants would want to return to their home countries after experiencing life in the U.S. Hollywood sells an idealised picture that immigrants quickly realise isn't real and start getting homesick for the relative comfort back home. You won't believe the number of people who land in NYC thinking it would be "Friends" or "Sex and the City" or LA thinking they'll live like 90210 or the Kardashians.
- Dzhokhar may have killed his brother on purpose, if he hadn't died from gunshot wounds already. There's another charge.
- R467 have they determined what actually killed him? First I heard it was from getting run over, then later it was from gunshot, then later they would say no cause of death would be released without the family's permission.
- R468, the uncle will find out the official cause of death (on the death cert) when he collects nephew's body. I'm sure the uncle will tell the press then.
- [quote]that pic is of the parents holding the infant who would grow up to run over his brother with an SUV
The infant in that pic is Tamerlan, the older brother.
- Oh, something is really fishy, I think his parents are involved in some way, coz they dare not come to the US, coz they know they will be detained etc.
Sure, the mother has a warrant from shoplifting but I bet she is way more involved, her name was on the watch list and she was on the wiretap with her son...his father is supposedly not well.
- R434, you're an idiot. What the hell is that supposed to mean? God, you're ignorant.
- r472 not that I agree with r434 but I think the Daily Beast had an article last week questioning whether his sudden extremism is the result of repeated head injuries. So r434 is not alone in this belief.
- R434 is a proven idiot. He may not be alone in his narrow-minded views but that doesn't mean he is right.
- I disagree R460.
- r432, that speculation about schizophrenics is weird. Do you think perhaps, that Mohamed Atta, Ziad Jarrah and Marwan al-Shehhi were a schizophrenic too?
The 9/11 hijacker-pilots have much in common with these brothers. The hijackers were students in Hamburg, Germany. Mohamed Atta, the pilot of the plane that crashed the North Tower, was a student at the Technical Univesity of Hamburg in 1993-1999, studying urban planning. His father was an attorney in Egypt, so he had wealthy background and secular family. Who would have believed he was capable of massive terrorist killings? I don't think anyone.
Same with the other pilots of 9/11. Stop making excuses for these two Boston wackos.
- The cops ran over Tamerlan not Dzhokhar. And Dzhokhar obviously isn't shot in the neck or anywhere else in the photos of him climbing out of the boat.
How do you pronounce Tamerlan?
- 477: How do you know that? There's no evidence the cops did it. And I don't know about Dzhokhar's wounds, but he was all bloodied up in the pictures. I saw something about how they thought it looked more like a knife wound, but I haven't bothered to check the latest details.
Tamerlan is pronounced pretty much like it's written.
- r478, there are photos and footage of all of this. I saw them posted on a different board, but you should be able to find them with a simple Google Image or Video Search.
- R474 Being open to all possible explanations as to why someone would suddenly have such a severe personality shift is the very opposite of a narrow-minded view.
- [quote] Tamerlan was old enough when they left for the US to already be hardened by the violent Dagestan
Tamerlan grew up in Kazakhstan, not Dagestan. They moved to Dagestan shortly before coming to the US.
- Tamerlan is named after Timur the Lame, a huge Muslim hero in Central Asia and the north Caucasus.
- 481: The family lived in Dagestan for 1 year before moving to the US though, and Tamerlan remained there for 2 more years before moving to join his family. Dagestan is a harsh place.
- Can you explain to us, r466, how Americans (which I'm not) should be able to fathom why immigrants would want to blow up and kill other people?
- Dzhokhar is definitely guilty, but it's still no stretch to say Tamerlan was the mastermind; after all, he was the one who went back to Dagestan for six months, where jihadists are fighting Russian forces. He most definitely received training there.
- It is a stretch R485. The 19 year old is less likely to have made an escape plan. The 19 year-old made no effort to disguise his appearance.
The 19 year old is more likely to do a carjacking and let the driver escape.
- R476 - An explanation isn't an excuse. I hope you know the difference. He demonstrated behavior that is consistent with schizophrenic symptomatology.
[quote]Do you think perhaps, that Mohamed Atta, Ziad Jarrah and Marwan al-Shehhi were a schizophrenic too?
Why would I think that?
- [quote]Its obvious that the older brother was the mastermind behind the whole thing. Jahar probably felt like he had to go along or was forced to. Life in prison is way too harsh of a sentence. He should only get a few years and then be allowed to get with his life.
I was involved in the U.S. anti-death penalty movement for a number of years. What often happens when there is more than one perpetrator in a murder is that the actual trigger man turns state's evidence and the sidekick ends up on death row.
I monitored several cases where there was an apparently charismatic leader with a group of sycophants who hero worshiped him. Usually the sycophants were very low functioning. The scenario was that the leader murdered someone (or coerced one of his followers into committing the murder) and then he turned on the others, who ended up on death row.
As in the case of Jahar (who was photographed placing his bomb behind the group of children who were killed and maimed), being a follower rather than a leader does not give one a free pass to commit murder.
- They lived in Kyrgyzstan, not Kazahkstan. Kazakhstanis were roomites of Dzhokar, though.
- Kazakhstan, Kyrgystan, Uzbekistan, Tajikistan = Shitholistan
- Meet the Stans!
A documentary series about the "Stans" of formerly Soviet Central Asia 20 years after independence... and, lurking ever so near, Afghanistan
During the Soviet-afghan war, I was in two of these Stans near the Afghan border. I was told by the residents that they often visited relatives across the border in Afghanistan. I was surprised -- wasn't there a war going on? Didn't the soviets block the borders? They laughed. "This is our land. We've been crossing borders for two thousand years. We go by routes the Russians can't get near." This meant crossing into various Islamic republics into Iran, and entering Afghanistan from there.
This series will frighten you. Biowarfare, radioactivity, casual-to-no security in the lands of jihad. There's a lot out there.
- Pay attention to the segment of the documentary (linked above) on Kyrgystan. It's where the Tsarnaevs lived for many years. It's a very anti-American region. Even the students at the American university, funded by the US state department, hate America. All of the students lived in America for a year during high school.
I would say that the Tsarnaevs years in Kyrgystan were more relevant to their views about America than their years in Dagestan were. Note how the jihadists are gaining a strong foothold there, tacking up calls for jihad around the cities and handing out pamphlets. Note how Simon says the jihad movement in Kyrgystan is very worrying to the west. Note that this documentary was made a decade ago. So ten years ago the west worried about jihad in Kyrgystan affecting the west and students from Kyrgystan were voicing their hatred and disgust with America.
If, after watching these students (who speak American English fluently) you still don't understand how Dzhokhar could appear so American but blow up American kids so effortlessly, you are very naive in the ways of the world.
- I was kind of undies Johar gets to wear in prison. I'm sure they are not the hot and sexy one he had on the night he was arrested.
- Looks like the crazy mother is trying to collect money
- I'm glad that some fools and their money are about to be parted.
- This is not really worth reading, but I find it interesting.
I went through Dzhokhar's twitter. He wrote a tweet about something like
"these frail ass kids, little do these dogs know they're barking at a lion."
His profile pic is of a roaring lion. There's also a known historical Chechen figure who was called the Lion of Dagestan.
As interested as Dzhokhar was in Chechnya's history, he probably was inspired by him.
Apparently his brother and his mother influence over him, and especially his brother seemed unable to get over their ties to Dagestan, where he lived 2 years longer before going to the US with his family, and the other places they lived. Some of the most harshest places in the world.
We also know Dzhokhar liked rap and hip hop and weed.
Anyway, the song Heart of a Lion by Kid Cudi reminds me so much of him.
"But the weed is guaranteed indeed just what I need
How I feel upon a time so recent in time make me sad"
Dzhokhar tweeted about how he missed his father and his home country.
"At the end of the day my momma told me
Don't let no one break me, let no one break me
At end of the day, day, nobody, nobody,
Ever could stop me ever could stop me
At the end of the day, day you can't regret it
If you were trying if you were trying
At the end of the day, day I'm walking with a heart of a lion"
We know his mother probably was a dominant figure in their lives when it came to faith, and she might very well have known what they were doing and even encouraged them to. That's very likely from what we've heard.
"And they talk and judge a man they have no clue of what im capable
Till I show a side of me no one had thought could be within
I told ya no I'm not no loser I'll see you in hell"
No one suspected Dzhokhar to be capable of what he did. This was what reminded me of Dzhokhar the most. The brothers were most likely trying not to be losers in life, finding their idenity in Chechnya's struggle and wanting to be part of the great movement, jihad.
So yeah, this doesn't mean anything, but I just found it interesting. I wonder if he ever heard the song.
Especially Tamerlan seemed like and was described as such a tough guy who was arrogant, he even said to the carjack victim "I did that" about the bombing and "This all seems like something out of a movie, doesn't it?" They were determined not to be losers, prove themselves to be lions.
- First Video of Tamerlan Tsarnaev Boston Bomber Talking, Trainer Reveals More
- [quote]He said Tsarnaev was the best in New England, with dreams of going to the Olympics. But in 2010 Tamerlan was disqualified from competition for not being a U.S. citizen. Also weighing heavily was a pending domestic violence charge, Marciano reported. When asked out the charge, Allen told Marciano, "He kept it from me. He gave me the impression that the reason he unable to go to the Olympics was because he couldn't become a citizen, because of mishandling of paperwork. He felt that it was done on purpose so that the guy he beat could go to the Olympic trials." Marciano: "Do you think that this road block in his boxing career set him on the wrong path, set him on the path to these bombings? Allen: "Absolutely."
I'd suspected that this was the straw that broke the camel's back. A rival team had complained about his lack of U.S. citizenship and blocked his and his father's biggest dream. He allegedly dropped boxing because a Muslim couldn't hit other men, but that was just a cover. He was embittered and enraged.
- [quote]little do these dogs know they're barking at a lion."
That was a boast and a threat: and it came to pass. Apparently he was being teased for being a softie.
- A Muslim can't hit other men but they can blow them up? I don't get it.
- More Tamerlan talking. He got a thick accent.
- He didn't get what he wanted, so he got mad.
And people were trying to analyze every aspect of Chechen/Russian/American/MiddleEast politics.
It's always something small making someone small angry, then wanting to kill to feel and look big.
- Entertainment Tonight - America's news leader!
- 502: Yeah, he was most likely just a really arrogant, angry loser who couldn't handle getting rejected into the US.
But the other analysises are important too. It wasn't just one thing. All factors most likely formed into a whole.
I believe he tried to fit into the US, he really did try. He was arrogant, the best boxer in New England and on his way to Olympics and the US; and when that failed, when his search for glory and identity in the US was crushed, he had a back up identity:
ties and roots to a country and a global jihad movement he could use to believe in and find his identity in again, get out his rage and get the glory he couldn't get in the US.
He had the exact right personality and personal circumstances to tip him over the edge.
- I agree r504.
The Uncle had it right as well. Pure loser attitude.
- This may be childish, but this song was basically what I thought of when I first heard about them scanning the boat for signs of Dzhokhar. Main dude singing even looks like him.
Oh shit! Get your towels ready, it's about to go down! Everybody in the place hit the fucking deck, but stay on your motherfucking toes!
Take a good, hard look at the motherfucking boat!
You can't stop me motherfuckers, cause I'm on a boat!
- You all frigid sluts!
Only things that should be discussed are how BIG was his COCK and how tight is his HOLE!
- [quote] He didn't get what he wanted, so he got mad.
Exactly. He just started looking for some rationale for his anger. Of course, the govt eats that up - a terrorist act gets them more money and justification for certain actions. A common criminal and a regular old criminal act gets them nada.
- R508, that’s not completely true. At the end of the day, all Jihadis are angry losers and one can come up with endless physiologic reasons for their behavior. They are all common criminals, but the difference is that Jihadis believe they are motivated by god and there is always some sort of religious leaders pulling the strings. Jihad is meant to strike terror in the hearts of non-believers, hence why it’s called terror.
- Tamerlan held a Russian passport. If he was good enough at boxing to be a US Olympic prospect but was having citizenship difficulty, why didn't he just box for the Russian team? Olympic athletes do that stuff all the time.
- R509: You could cross out Jihadist and put in US Serviceperson and it would be just as true.
- r511, that's not true.
- R512: I was going to launch into a self-righteous diatribe in reply to you, but r506 linking to Im On a Boat has me laughing too hard.
- That just makes you a laughing idiot instead of just an idiot, R513.
- R515: Whatever, asshat. Please share more of your over-generalized, ill-informed opinions.
- That these guys came from a country where both the young and the old hate America (Kyrgystan) has gone completely over some peope's heads. University students in Kyrgysyan who have lived in America hate it.
Their Kazak friends tried to get rid of any evidence tying the killers to the crime. Why? Why didn't they call the police and say, "That's Dzhokhar Tsarnaev in your photos. We'll try to help you capture him because we are disgusted by his actions." No. They tried to help him get away with it.
Doesn't look like the work of one loser to me.
- R516 While I dont doubt you (Ive read that elsewhere too) what I find so fucking frustrating is if they hate America so much, why the fuck do they come here? Do they think they will be able to change the minds of everyone here to their way of thinking? Are they so used to be exploited and persecuted that being someplace they hate seems natural to them? Its so fucked up, it makes no sense at all.
- What ethnicity is third friend Robel Philipos?
- The Kazakhs are the dumbest dumbasses who ever dumbed. Seriously. And how Americanised was Dzhokhar when most of his friends were Russian-speaking citizens of former Soviet republics?
- [quote]What ethnicity is third friend Robel Philipos?
I read he is Ethiopian.
- So the cause of death was gunshot wounds and blunt trauma to head and torso. Time of his death as 1:35 a.m. on April 19.
- The gunshot wounds AND being run over? So killed both by cops and his brother?
- What was the deal between the working class Dzhokar and the wealthy Kazakhs? Was it a using the wealthy or slumming with the poor thing?
R519: most of his friends weren't Russian speaking.
This whole thing from the govt being aware of the older one, the bombing, the exposed lies, and the military-likesiege is leading up to something bad.
- The Kazakhs were his closest friends and they're Russian-speaking. The NYC picture is also all Russian-speaking guys. He also didn't have a Facebook but had joined the Russian equivalent social networking site.
- [quote]But the other analysises are important too.
R504 Oh dear! It's analyses.
- R524: I meant he didn't dump the friends from the working-class neighborhood. He seemed to split his time between both places. Some of those friends are being dragged into this. Quite a few locked and deleted twitter profiles amongst them.
It's such a bizarre cast of characters involved, setting up the perfect storm of crazy.
- [quote] [R512]: I was going to launch into a self-righteous diatribe in reply to you, but [R506] linking to Im On a Boat has me laughing too hard.
R511/ R513, LOL! I just clicked the link. I'm on a boat. They can't see me. But I never thoughtI I'd be on a boat. In the driveway of a tiny white house.
Thanks, R506. I laughed all the way through. Poor JoKar (sp).
- According to reports the Tsarnaev family fled Russia for safety. Then why did the family travel back and forth from the US and Russia? The family are terrorists. The parents just so happened to go back to Russia before the bombing so they would be out of reach of the American legal system. Uncle Ruslan, who many think is a hero because he publicly denounced his two nephews, has given money and supplies to Chechen terrorists.
- [quote]Tamerlan held a Russian passport. If he was good enough at boxing to be a US Olympic prospect but was having citizenship difficulty, why didn't he just box for the Russian team? Olympic athletes do that stuff all the time.
R510. Here's the answer to your question: If Tamerlan could box for the U.S. Olympic team, then fine--he said he would have been happy with that prospect.
However, Tamerlan said he would not box for the Russian Olympic team because Chechnya is not an independent country--and Chechnya wants very much to be independent from Russia. Tamerlan considered himself Chechen, not Russian. He would box for an independent Chechnya--but he would not box for Russia as long as Russia would not grant Chechnya its independence.
And that's your answer.
- Philipos was actually born in Ethiopia and became a naturalised U.S. citizen. Looks like he unintentionally got entangled with this, its the Kazakhs who were actively trying to get rid of the evidence:
[quote]According to the criminal complaint, Phillipos said that Tazhayakov and Kadyrbayev "started to freak out" when they realized April 18 that their friend Tsarnaev was apparently involved in the bombings three days before. He told investigators he did not understand much of what they said because they spoke Russian.
Video and facts about Philipos at link.
- Phillipos claims the fireworks disappeared while he was taking a nap.
- The muslim community are trying their best to distance themselves from Djohar:
[quote]Vkontakte (or VK) is something of a Russian equivalent to Facebook, with some 200 million users. And according to Buzzfeed's Chris Geidner, this is Tsarnaev's account. The dates of Tsarnaev's schooling, birth, and time spent in Boston seem to match up from what multiple reports suggested all day Friday. And, yes, it says his "World view" is Islam, but no matter what the anti-Muslim crowd tells you, let's keep in mind that how you identify yourself on Facebook (or VK) doesn't necessarily mean that you are what you say you are. A commenter on our bio of Tsarnaev, claimed to be friends with him and wrote that Tsarnaev did not practice the tenets of Islam:
- Is Robel part Greek (Phillipos)?
- 525. Well, I think I'm doing good for someone whose first language isn't English and doesn't even live in an English-speaking country. But I sincerely apologize for that grammatical mistake.
- [quote]Is Robel part Greek (Phillipos)?
Both Robel's parents are Ethiopian and he was born there. Many Ethiopians practice one of the most ancient Christian rites in the form of the Ethiopian Coptic Orthodox church . Which is obviously connected to the Egyptian Coptic church which heavily draws from the Greek Orthodox church. Ergo, you will find many Ethiopian Christians with Greek sounding names like Phillipos (Phillip); Tewodros (Theodore); Meles etc.
- When I say "obviously" I mean Egypt in north eastern Africa is just north of Ethiopia so obviously there's some influence.
- That doesn't rule out mixed heritage up the line.
- A collage of rare Dzhokhar pics. Now, this doesn't cloud my judgement, he's guilty and deserves his punishment, but what an angelic looking cute. Sigh.
- Whenever I see Dzhokhar in the picture at the finish line with the young boy who was killed and his family that was injured I don't understand how anyone can have pity for the bomber...
- they are both guilty and unattractive
- [quote]That doesn't rule out mixed heritage up the line.
Do you know of a Greek invasion of Ethiopia back in ancient times that caused them to have Greek-sounding names? The names comes from the Christian Orthodox faith. No mixing with Greeks in East Africa.
- [quote] While I dont doubt you (Ive read that elsewhere too) what I find so fucking frustrating is if they hate America so much, why the fuck do they come here?
Watch the TV episode at 491. The traveling host goes to Kyrgystan. His young tour guide went to school in the US and hates it. The tour guide comes right out and says people in Kyrgystan prefer Russians and that the only thing Americans are good for is their money. A jihadist gets into their car/van and spouts about how all of them - American, British, Russian - are the same and need to be killed. Then they visit The American University and talk to the students who all lived in the US. They hate America, think all Americans are stupid (and most are, let's face it, or Fox News wouldn't be number one and Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, et al, would be working for the world wrestling federation). The school is filled with anti-American cartoons. And it was 2003, a whole decade ago. Think of how many more people they've let into this country from Kyrgystan, Kazakstan and lord knows where else.
Why do they come to America? To know their enemy. It makes them feel very cool to fool people into thinking they are great friends while they are just learning the language and culture so they can denigrate and work against it. They all have this superiority complex -- like "America is the richest most powerful country in the world, but we here in our shithole country are smarter, more righteous and, most importantly, belong to the right religion. We will destroy you idiots."
And they just might, if the US keeps letting them into the country. Back during the Cold War, we didn't allow Russians or mainland Chinese into our country and vice versa. We didn't fund universities in Moscow or Beijing and let students come here and live amongst us. We knew our enemies and they knew theirs.
And let's face it -- if you could get US citizenship and travel between the US, where fun stuff is happening, and your nasty old sclerotic Muslim country, you'd definitely want to come here, party it up when it suits you, go home to the grandparents and tell them how much they are worshipped, and base operations to cause trouble in America FROM America, rather than dreaming of causing trouble in America from Dagestan..
We need an air base in Kyrgyzstan for our "operation" in Afghanistan (which is securing oil pipelines). And did you notice -- that plane crash in Afghanistan and the driver of the truck with the dashboard camera were not military? Our "operation" in Afghanistan is being run by corporations which use the military a s a private security force.
The only thing driving America now is pure greed. So if the Kyrgyz government says, "Say, in return for an air base, why don't you allow our kids to go to school in America? Why don't you take a lot of Kyrgyz nationals and let them emigrate to the US and work in the oil industry (like Uncle Ruslan) and this will improve relations," the corporations are going to agree to it. Meanwhile, the government tells the students and emigres, "Remember where your loyalty lies. We are letting you go off to have a good time. Try to stay there as long as you can, try to get citizenship. You are our operatives."
And that's what they are. Operatives. Uncle Ruslan is no doubt pissed at his nephews and considers them losers for getting caught. I'm not saying he was involved in their little caprice, but he knows why Chechens, Kyrgs and Kazaks are here. The USSR would have done the same thing if we'd allowed them, but we weren't 100% driven by corporate greed back then and didn't let them in the country.
- [quote]That doesn't rule out mixed heritage up the line.
If by "up the line" you mean like at least two thousand years ago, then I'll agree there was some mixing. Both of Robel's parents are from the Amhara tribe so he's pure Ethiopian.
- From Wikipedia - The name Ethiopia itself is Greek and means "of burned face".
- It would be interesting if today's Ethiopians turned out to be classical Greeks and the white people inhabiting Greece nowadays were all South Slavs.
- I love how r542 disses Fox News and then proceeds to spew their talking points.
- leave the Greeks out of this!
- you're all just useless cunts!
- [quote]While I dont doubt you (Ive read that elsewhere too) what I find so fucking frustrating is if they hate America so much, why the fuck do they come here?
- The Greeks have nothing to do with this. It's just someone bizarrely bent on suggesting Robel Phillipos is of Greek descent even after the explanation that Greek sounding names are common in Ethiopia because of their Orthodox Christian faith. From that wiki page:
[quote]The Greek community in Ethiopia today numbers about 500 persons and can be traced back to the 18th century.
This in a country of 92 million people. Again Phillipos is NOT Greek. He's East African.
- Ethiopians LOVE BIG GREEK COCK!
- R542: ITA with your points. Also, Americans are greedy pigs no matter who is in Office. We forget that but other countries know it. There is never any real changes and when you look at the connections amongst Administrations, you see it is the same continuing story of greed.
This whole case is fascinating and eye opening. I'd like to know more about class structure.
- BOSTON (AP) — A funeral home director was scrambling to find a cemetery that would bury a suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings, ignoring protesters gathered outside his business and saying everybody deserves a dignified burial service no matter the circumstances of his or her death.
Tamerlan Tsarnaev’s body was released by the state medical examiner Thursday. It initially was taken to a North Attleborough funeral home, where it was greeted by about 20 protesters, before being taken to Stefan’s Graham Putnam and Mahoney Funeral Parlors, which is familiar with Muslim services.
“My problem here is trying to find a gravesite. A lot of people don’t want to do it. They don’t want to be involved with this,” said Stefan, who said dozens of protesters gathered outside his funeral home, upset with his decision to handle the service. “I keep bringing up the point of Lee Harvey Oswald, Timothy McVeigh or Ted Bundy. Somebody had to do those, too.”
- [quote]Only things that should be discussed are how BIG was his COCK and how tight is his HOLE!
And the brothers cut or not.
- 553. Like the guy said, Ted Bundy was buried. Non-terrorist murderers, child rapists etc. are buried all the time.
It's the least of human decency.
I think it shows character and dignity for someone to take on that un-wanted, difficult responsibility.
Also, those protesters, I don't understand what they're trying to accomplish? What else are they to do with the corpse? It's just a corpse. It's over, he's dead. Anger doesn't make anything better.
I heard they're going to protest at his funeral, I hope that's not true. The ones left are his relatives and those who loved him, and they deserve to grieve for him. Imagine if a child of yours did something like he did, how difficult that would be psychologically to handle. They need to be left alone and grieve in peace to get over that.
Sometimes I wonder if Americans have any empathy at all except for what is easily relatable and close to them.
- He should be tried as a juvenile. He was only a child when they began to indoctrinate him.
- [quote]Also, those protesters, I don't understand what they're trying to accomplish? What else are they to do with the corpse? It's just a corpse. It's over, he's dead. Anger doesn't make anything better.
That's true, r555, but who can blame the cemetery owners? There are lots of angry crazies out there who would use the gravesite as a toilet, constantly vandalize the marker, and perhaps even try to dig up the body. Plus, the cemetery owner would have to deal with death threats and loss of business.
It's said the family can't afford for Tamerlan's body to be flown back home, but I bet some agency finally steps in and pays for it just to make this problem go away.
- Maybe Tamerlan's parents would like his body shipped to Chechnya or Dagestan or wherever they live and bury him there.
- The funeral home has the body now. There is NO WAY it is going to be buried in the USA.
The cemetery who takes the body will more than likely be desecrated and therefore, will have to hire additional security.
It is not fair to all the families who will have to deal with the circus everytime they pay their respects to loved ones - even if the kaos is shortlived.
Would you want Tamerlan buried next to your family/friend?
- [quote]Would you want Tamerlan buried next to your family/friend?
Ridiculous! As if you know who is buried near family or what they may have done? Or if it even matters. Everyone in the cemetery is dead!
- R560 - Not ridiculous...if someone is anonymous - no circus - buried next to Tamerlan who killed and maimed CIRCUS. Are you serious?
- When my dad died 2000 miles from home, I had him cremated. He wasn't someone who had to lie in state. The older Tsamaev should be cremated.
- [quote]Only things that should be discussed are how BIG was his COCK and how tight is his HOLE!
"It was an alright size I guess? What is "big" to you? He was probably around 7 inches. But he was also really skinny so it made things look bigger by contrast."
- The Dark Side, Carefully Masked
Starts off poor baby, end what an ass. Whoever said a virgin may be right
- Should have read r563 first, wrong about the virgin
- Please what Muslim from that area is uncut? Bitch lying going back to he is a V
- [quote]When my dad died 2000 miles from home, I had him cremated. He wasn't someone who had to lie in state. The older Tsamaev should be cremated.
Cremation is forbidden in the Muslim religion. There may be sects that are okay with it, but for most it's taboo.
- Tamerlane can be buried (dumped overboard) at sea.
- The ex girlfriend posting on reddit is probably legit.
- what is she saying?
- I think people are being incredibly stupid about burying Tamarlin. Adam Lanza who killed a lot more people was allowed a burial wasn't he? How about every guy killed on death row? How about Timothy Mcveigh--is he still lying somewhere in a funeral home?
The man is dead. You can't get deader than dead. You're ;out of revenge options. Just bury him already.
- where is Timothy McVeigh buried?
- [quote] The man is dead. You can't get deader than dead. You're out of revenge options. Just bury him already.
You dont get it. People want to desecrate him and piss on his dead body. Final resting place? Fuck that - you don't know trashy Bostonians.
After seeing this uproar, it makes total sense why they dumped Bin Laden at sea. They might have to do the same with this guy.
With so many who were wounded from this attack, the reasoning is that he doesnt deserve a decent burial.
Dzhokhar is safer in prison. The Boston lynch mobs would tear him to pieces.
- What is the ex-girlfriend saying?
- [quote]Cremation is forbidden in the Muslim religion. There may be sects that are okay with it, but for most it's taboo.
How about maiming and murdering children?
This son-of-a-cunt has forfeited any rights or considerations regarding the burial rites of any religiion.
Burn the mother-fucker and flush him down the crapper, and lil'bro can follow.
- Charming, R575.
- [quote] even if the kaos is shortlived
KAOS was short-lived. "Get Smart" only lasted five seasons.
- The adorable Simon Reeve hosted a couple of travel series describing the part of the world where these two come from. "Places that Don't Exist" and "Meet the Stans."
Unfortunately, he is married to a woman.
- Interesting reasoning about cremations and Muslims: "The wisdom is that Allah has forbidden us to use fire on His creation." Yet the Tsamaevs did just that.
- R579, it seems "an eye for an eye" applies here.
- Simon Reeve wrote the best book on the 1972 Olympic murders: "One Day in September."
Prior to 9/11/01, he was a regular on MSNBC. I figured the reason he was not seen post-9/11 was that he knew, and knows, too much about the Middle East for the comfort of Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Wolfowitz/Rice.
- R570 & R574, here is a little of what she posted. I linked to it on my post at R563
[quote]I want to get this off my chest: All of Dzhokhar's friends and family portray him as an angel, but he wasn't. I'm tired of people talking about how close they were to him and how they never saw it coming because he was so genuine and kind. I definitely never thought he could do something like this, don't get me wrong, it was a shock. But I'm so annoyed by all the people claiming him to be an angel. I'm tired of everyone trying to shove their faces into the media for attention. I dated Dzhokhar, I knew him for years. I sat here quietly as all this shit unraveled without letting anyone else know the things that I know. I'm tired of the bullshit lies. Yet the only thing I can do to keep myself safe is to not speak up. So here I am, venting my frustration.
[quote]I guess he was a nice guy. He didn't mind doing things like picking people up/dropping them off after parties. He shared things with people. He never ate without offering some of his food to the person with him. That kind of thing. But inherently nice? Not really. He didn't seem to care much in general about people or events or anything. I don't know how to explain it.
[quote]There were times when he was a little aggressive. I'm not sure if that's considered something particularly alarming though. His brother, on the other hand, waved so many red flags. It didn't surprise me to hear he was involved. It's strange because you get vibes from people upon meeting them. Despite how kind Tam was to me (and he's actually done a lot for me), I never felt comfortable. It was nothing he did, it was this weird feeling I got around him. I get chills thinking about it and relating it to what happened.
The crazy Tumblr girls showed up, it doesn't look like she'll post anymore.
R566, she said he's cut. I wonder if emjan20, who asked about his cock, posts here.
- BTW, marijuana and hashish are smoked regularly in Kyrgystan, where the Tsarnaevs are from and ganja grows along the side of the road in Kazakstan, another nearby Muslim country. So partying isn't "American." It made me laugh to hear their dopey friends in MA saying, "But Jahar partied like any other American kid!" He partied like any kid from Kyrgystan.
I believe Tamerlane - and probably Dzhokhar - are involved in the 9/11/11 triple homicide. But not because the guys were pot dealers and it offended Islamic sensibilities. The Tsarnaevs would have to wipe out three quarters of Muslim Central Asia if they believed pot dealers and smokers were evil. Not to mention Tajikistan, whose economy is based on selling Afghan heroin to Europe.
Someone on another message board said he was friends with one of the murder victims, Erik Weissman, who was Jewish and had talked about sent a large amount of money to Israel. Another victim, Raphael Tenken, was buried in Israel.
If I were the FBI, I'd be asking Dzhokhar about those killings. There's no way Tamerlane could have killed all three by himself unless they all arrived separately, at least 10 minutes apart.
All three were nearly decapitated by their neck wounds.
- They probably already are asking, r583.
R583: don't count the wife out, she's as big as an ox.
Another odd video of Jahar making the rounds
- The Tamerlan's uncle said that his deceased nephew should be allowed to be buried in Massachusetts because that was his home as was the U.S.
However, someone should pay to send Tamerlan's body back to Russia to be buried near his parents. Bostonians may not want him, but perhaps his parents do. He needs to be buried somewhere. He cannot stay at the funeral home forever.
- Ex-GF making it all about her. Typical.
- [quote]she said he's cut.
This is a big relief.
- yes r588, I always hesitated when fantasizing about him because I worried about encountering that issue. Now I can give him a blow job after rescuing him from the boat.
- I thought this thread had reached 600?
- [quote]Charming, [R575].
Ah,let's expand on that...
would you say it's less charming, as charming, or more charming than than blowing people, including children, to bits and executing a university police officer?
If you choose "Less" or "More", please score on a 1-to-5 scale.
- He's muslim, of course he's cut. Muslims are very big on personal hygiene.
- The ex has to be real. Her story follows along with what comes across in the videos, pictures, and actions. He came across as an arrogant, grifting ass, just like his family members.
- 593. But that's just it though. Everything she said is the impression I got from him from his twitter and other information. So I wish she'd said more that no one could find out on their own.
But yes, both brothers were arrogant losers trying to be lions.
- If Tamerlane is buried in Dagestan, his grave will become the shrine of a martyr.
- Some guy who says he's a friend of Dzhokhar is saying the mother had arranged a marriage for him. I wonder if she's been questioned and her DNA checked against what was found on the bomb.
- 596. Yeah, Dzhokhar even wrote a tweet about the arranged marriage thing (see url).
They checked the DNA of Tamerlan's wife, so I don't see how they couldn't have thought to check the mother. They're both the two likeliest females to have touched the bomb. FBI can't be that incompetent to not have done it.
- Is it not possible the female DNA came from one of the victims?
- 598. Yeah, I think that's possible. Although weird? But I don't know how that works. It seems so unlikely. But either way, it would be insanity NOT to check the mother's DNA. She's the most likely female to have had anything to do with it before the actual explosion.
She was in Russia, not Boston.
- Less than a year ago he tweeted he didn't want his mother to arrange a marriage, by April it was arranged.
I hope they checked the mother's DNA. When did she move back to Russia? I wonder about the woman he was setup to marry.