In this weird way I feel sorry for the younger Tasnaev they caught
He sounds like a sweet kid who had no one around him other than his psychopathic brother who completely controlled him. His parents pretty much abandoned him and his sister was driven away by the elder brother beating her. All he had left was the brother. I doubt he would ever have done this had he not been so dominated by the elder brother.
I know I should be saving my sympathy for the survivors of the people he killed and the dozens of maimed people, and of course I feel much more sorry for them. But I do keep thinking about him with some sadness for him.
Sorry, that headline should read "Tsarnaev," not "Tasnaev."
And I think the elder brother sounds about as evil and psychopathic a human being as is imaginable.
I assume this is how his lawyers will be spinning the story, OP. Stay tuned.
I'm normally very hardline when it comes to terrorists (or Islamists or violent criminals in general) - but in this case I agree. He's just 19, and it seems obvious to me that he'd never have done something like this without the influence of his older brother.
Then again, being honest with myself, I have to wonder if I'd have the same reaction if he wasn't as cute?
The thing is the kid could have been a HERO in this right up to Monday afternoon if he'd have just called 911 and ratted out his psycho brother.
Nail and ball bearing bombs aimed at hundreds of people, with amputations and deaths.
Fuck the poor little asshole in his bullet holes with a dirty stick.
His life sucks. They should put a bullet in his head
He positioned a bomb directly behind an 8 year old boy. Pull your head out of your ass, OP.
How do you know he wasn't the one controlling his older brother? How do you know he wasn't the one with the bomb fetish? The brother could have been brain damaged from boxing and completely under his thumb.
It seems like a similar dynamic to the Washington sniper & the kid he trained & controlled.
He drove over his "oppressor" brother and then continued to hide, engaging in violence, until roused from his hideout in a boat. To pretend that he is a "victim" is to ignore all the other siblings of terrorists who chose not to go along with violent terrorist schemes.
[quote]How do you know he wasn't the one controlling his older brother? How do you know he wasn't the one with the bomb fetish? The brother could have been brain damaged from boxing and completely under his thumb.
Because those things didn't happen, from all reports.
The human condition is both terrifying and awe inspiring. I know this sounds like frau bullshit but what struck me with this particular incident is both the malicious carnage but also the people who helped afterwards. It was the best and worst of humanity in one event.
I just can't picture a 19YO as a criminal mastermind, sorry, all.
There's a lot of rage against the government by the American people right now. The for-profit wars (and all the lives that have been senselessly lost); sending our jobs overseas- leaving us with $7.00/hr. "seasonal" warehouse crap; the foreclosure fiasco; the constant in-fighting of the parties; the banks collapsing; trying to snatch the guns away... It all feels manipulative, like we're slaves.
So don't be surprised if not everyone is out there placing teddy bears and flags. I'm surprised people aren't rioting in the streets.
New York Magazine has an article listing the last 86 tweets he posted on Twitter. It most certainly did not look like a glimpse into the mind of a killer. It looked like any other American male college student. He loved Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, sleeping late and eating nachos. Not only that but many of his tweets were favorited and retweeted many times suggesting that he had friends and wasn't a shut in. His personality and tastes doesn't fit any of the previous profiles of a mass murderer at all.
Given r19's post and other stuff I've read about him being just a normal kid, I don't see how an attorney could possibly mount some sort of insanity defense. He sounds like a smart guy who, though probably heavily influenced by his older brother, knew what he was doing was wrong.
And yet he is a mass murderer.
I'm 99 percent sure the people who "feel sorry for" the younger brother and think he was manipulated just think he's hot and this is their way of dealing with finding a mass murderer attractive.
This is how you determine if DLers will sympathize with a horrible person...
1)Is the suspect male?
2)Is the suspect cute/attractive/sexy/swarthy/ and physically fit with a nice ass?
3)Does the suspect have big dick indicators?
4)Is the suspect white or white adjacent?
5)Is the suspect between 17 and 33?
If you can answer yes to 3 or more of the above questions DLers on average will sympathize with a horrible person.
R18 for President.
R23, nails it.
That piece of shit is undoubtedly getting inundated by offers of marriage and every kind of sex act imaginable. It's a given.
I love that he ran over his brother probably killing him. Too Funny.
[quote]trying to snatch the guns away
except for that ludicrous statement, r24.
What if he was the mastermind? It is pretty ruthless that he ran over his brother rather than let him be captured.
Keep up, R29. His brother was already dead.
I feel sorry for him as well. I think it is likely he was under the influence of his older brother. I also think his worthless parents thinking these boys could not have done this are ridiculous and his sister is even more ridiculous for covering for her abusive brother. His uncle seems to have a grip on the situation as much as possible with mass-murdering relatives. It's like Ted Bundy's family finally realizing what a dangerous nut he was.
Harsh feelings for this young man will not bring back those people who died. The whole damn thing is all so senseless.
I made the mistake of opening a link of bombing photos. There was one photo of the guy in the cowboy hat rushing a guy in a wheel chair who was injured. Most images were pretty much from the waist up.
The photo I saw was the entire thing. His legs were gone, basically hamburger below the knees with a femur sticking out. That's all that was left.
Tarzan at r31 disgust and sympathy aren't mutually exclusive.
Think of how scared he must have been last night when the whole world was looking for him. He had just lost his brother tragically and he had no food, no money, no place to go to the bathroom. The boat was his only refuge.
There's precedent for for killing duos like these two in which one exerts psychological influence over a younger or weaker person. John Lee Malvo and John Allen Muhammad come to mind immediately. The former saw the latter as a father figure and would do anything to please him.
The older brother's sparring partner described him as "off" and contemptuous of him because he was of a smaller stature. He said he felt he had to hit harder than usual sparring because he wouldn't command any respect from the older Tasnaev otherwise. Older brother beat the sister. His wife was estranged from him and living with her parents and his kid was with her. Was the father around to protect his family? He seemed to throw his hands up at one point and returned to Russia, leaving his children behind.
Yes, I could see the older brother alternately guiding, charming, and bullying the younger one. I guess some people are so weak-willed and needy that they can't say no in their own best interests.
[quote]Is the suspect white or white adjacent?
Oh, that's funny.
And like the old joke. Two gay guys standing on a bridge. One guy says, "Look down there, that guy, he's drowning!" Other guy says, "Is he cute?"
Question. If you look at the State Dept.'s list of the world's terrorist organizations, Islamofascists are in the overwhelming majority around the globe. The question is Why?
I hadn't seen the uncropped version of that photo. I have things set so I can view images inline. That will have to change.
[quote] If you look at the State Dept.'s list of the world's terrorist organizations, Islamofascists are in the overwhelming majority around the globe. The question is Why?
Because the State Department doesn't have responsibility for domestic, homegrown hate groups?
Yeah, that was a little cunty to post that without a warning.
Who really knows, R35.
Yes that pic is horrific. I just feel so bad for the victims.
At age 19, the bomber is old enough to know that it is horrific to cause savage atrocities, murders, maiming, traumatic injuries involving losing limbs and amputations.
There is no excuse for him.
[quote] And yet he is a mass murderer.
R42, the two brothers killed FOUR people and made many people lose a leg (some both legs) - very traumatic injuries, and other traumatic injuries of all sorts.
They also critically injured two other police officers, and thru a bomb and live grenades directly at Watertown police.
sorry, threw not thru
"thru a bomb"
You know what's embarrassing? Millions of people are looking for information on this tragedy and coming across these threads and associating many of these comments with gay people. And R42, please look up the definition of mass murderer. I don't care how white he is or how cute you find him to be it doesn't change facts.
If the older brother had actually been charged with beating up his girlfriend (was arrested, but charges were dropped), and if someone had reported him for beating his sister, he might have been in jail already.
While I don't feel sorry for the younger brother, I do think the older one was a thug and bully who grasped onto religion as a way to punish even more people.
r45 is a speak-before-think person.
[quote]Keep up, [R29]. His brother was already dead.
Actually they are saying that the younger driving over the older was probably what did kill him. They were in the process of arresting him on the ground when the younger brother charged, running over him. I don't think he did it intentionally. He may not have even known his brother was right there on the ground.
Considering the killings took place in Boston, r42, the kid is a Mass. murderer one way or another.
Not quite, R48. There was a delay in the appearance of the post, and yes, R43/R48 (using a proxy) still made a ridiculously elementary mistake.
The older brother had sustained a lot of bullet wounds (so many the hospital didn't bother counting). Who knows what did him in?
Dear god, please no one nominate r50 for w&w.
There is something seriously wrong with some people here. I'm sure you'd feel sympathy for him if you or someone close to you was affected by this. The fact that this sympathy is coming from weirdos who find this pre-teen looking 19 year-old attractive is even more disturbing. Get help.
I hadn't heard the older brother was arrested for domestic violence. I wonder if it started around the time he found out she was pregnant. It would be a classic start for an domestic abuser.
The mayhem that night started with the fatal shooting of MIT campus officer Sean Collier, after which the two suspects -- Dzokhar and his 26-year-old brother Tamerlan -- hijacked another vehicle, allegedly bragging to the carjacking victim about their involvement in the Boston Marathon bombing. They let the black SUV's owner go, uninjured, after forcing him to withdraw money from an ATM.
However, his cell phone remained in the car, which gave police their first lead in tracking the suspected bombers. Authorities tracked the cell signal to a quiet residential street in Watertown, where a firefight ensued.
Armed with handguns, rifles and at least six bombs -- some of which were hurled at officers from the stolen vehicle -- the suspects launched their attack against responding police officers.
“The two brothers are shooting at my first police officer that’s responded and now, within seconds, I have two or three other police officers that pull up,” Deveau (Watertown Police Chief) told Blizter. "We estimate that there [were] over 200 shots fired over a five to 10 minute period."
Despite their surplus of weapons and ammunition, Deveau said the older Tsarnaev ran out of rounds while approaching officers on foot. It was then that one officer made his move, tackling the suspect to the ground before handcuffing him. The younger brother managed to escape custody, but not before running over his brother.
"One of [the officers] yells out 'look out' and here comes the black SUV, the carjacked car, directly at them," Deveau recalls. "They dive out of the way, yet he runs [over] his brother and drags him that short distance down the street."
"In effect, killing his brother?" Blitzer asked. "Yes, that's what we think," Deveau replies.
There was a guy on TV this morning who said Tamerlan (the older, dead one) had trouble moving from Green Card to Citizenship because of the 2009 domestic abuse charge (with his girlfriend/wife), and therefore could not compete in his boxing thing on a national level. Maybe that pissed him off against America.
R51 is mentally ill. Very mentally disturbed.
R51 sounds normal to me - or at least as normal as our grammar trolls can be. Let it go, R43/R48/R58. You're really embarrassing yourself now.
In theory, I know what you mean OP, having an assholic older brother myself.
But R7 put it best.
I'd be happy to flick the switch on this killer and then later you can feel badly for me.
By not granting him the right to remain silent, does that mean they intend to waterboard him?
There still might not be a trial. He is in serious condition and still might not survive. If the owner of that boat had not seen him in the boat, he would have died there.
The only blood I see on him in his apprehension pic is coming from his head, so maybe he's got a bullet in his brain?
What's so odd (and terrifying) is that everyone who knew him thought he was a good, smart, soft-spoken kid. Even his teacher described him as a sweetheart. I'm not looking for excuses but it will be fascinating to find out why that kind of "good" kid is suddenly driven to do something like this.
I'm a nurse and the photo @r11 is the most horrific injury I've ever seen. If you can do that to another human being then you do not deserve sympathy, empathy or pity. Whether his victims and the families of the dead forgive him is up to them. He needs to pay for the carnage, loss of life and pain he has caused. Death is too good for him. He needs to stay in jail until he draws his last breath. Devoid of human contact, books, television, spiritual guidance, intellectual stimulation and sunlight. But of course, we all know that is not going to happen. Therefore, death is the only answer.
I am shocked that that poor young guy didn't bleed out on the sidewalk immediately—the fact that he survived is a damn miracle.
I have no sympathy for him. I hope he either dies of his injuries or kills himself to spare the state the expense of trying and imprisoning him.
R43 and R44 here. I am not R48.
That's what makes R45 and R51 (same person) mentally disturbed - that he thinks I used some sort of 'proxy'. Bizarre and delusional and looking for ridiculous conspiracy.
R51 is disturbed and obsessive-compulsive in that he thinks accidentally writing the wrong word is a "ridiculous elementary mistake". A sign of borderline personality disorder to be so picayune.
Could the 19 year old been so naive that he believed his older brother when the older brother told him that there is no risk - that we will never get caught?
You truly sound nuts, R70. Please shut the fuck up with your madness, and let the adults talk.
[quote] the fact that he survived is a damn miracle.
Not really. So long as people use improvised tourniquets and the person is transported to a high tech hospital quickly, they have a pretty good chance. That's why we have so many amputee veterans from IEDs nowadays.
[quote] Actually they are saying that the younger driving over the older was probably what did kill him.
No they're not. He had so many gunshot wounds they had difficulty counting them at the hospital where the body was taken.
The Sorority Meltdown That Went Too Far Brothers. TSMTWTFB for short.
Weird, I was wondering what happened to that post. Wrong thread, sorry about that!
I don't find him attractive at all and to keep reducing it to that is bullshit - I still have sympathy for him. Y'all who don't are assholes. He's a human being, and it's easy to rant and rave and pretend he's not human, he's a "monster," but that's not the real world. Your simplifications might help you sleep at night but they're fucking lullabies.
Once I find out his reasoning behind his actions, then I will determine whether or not I feel at all sorry for him. I am glad he is not dead, however.
I don't have a problem wondering where this kid went wrong.
He reminds me of all kinds of ass-holes in high school; many would behave all meek and mild around teachers and once no one was looking they'd become this huge ass-holes.
If they had had access to weapons they would have done just what these brothers did.
Only savage monsters do what he did, R77.
You have a very immoral, sick, disturbed world view, R77.
[quote]Only savage monsters do what he did, [[R77]].
What do you think Presidents Bush and Obama have done with their strikes in the Middle East? Do you think innocent people (including children) have also not lost limbs and lives because of their decisions? Or do you think only the "evil doers" have been punished in those wars--that there has been no "collateral damage" against innocents?
Spare us your histrionic prissy sanctimony, r81. Feeling some sympathy for this kid does not mean anyone wants him to get off or that he shouldn't be punished.
I read either on this board or on another site someone saying that the average Muslim is a heartless, psychopathic, violent murderer, and I scoffed at it, thinking it was silly to generalize people in that way.
But after several days of this Muslim freak on this message-board trying his very best to excuse and downplay the outright carnage that these boys caused, calling people assholes for not sympathizing with them, and putting monster in quotations when discussing them leads me to believe that it's true. I'm done with being fair-minded with people who aren't fair-minded and who normalize the murder of innocent people, including small children. It's no big deal to you because it's normal for you.
R83, replace Muslim with Black or Jew and see how your message comes across.
To the families of the slaughtered and maimed, he is a monster. Any forgiving comes from them, not us bystanders who sit here and just read the news.
R56 (and others): Please do not quote the bozos at CNN, who among other atrocities were cheerleaders for the disastrous war in Iraq.
CNN has ZERO credibility.
R54, your BS tactics are going to fly with me. I said what I said ( and with good reason) and I meant every word of it. And from now on I always will.
R79 = Christian moron.
Right on R82!
Bush & Cheney & Rumsfeld & Rove should all be on trial at the Hague for their crimes against humanity - FAR, FAR worse than what happened in Boston, tragic as it was. Iraq was a war of choice, and the 'Deciders' are totally responsible for all the suffering they created.
Sorry, R88, I think Christianity is just as abhorrent as your psychopathic religion.
We're not talking about Cheney here but Tasnaev.
R85 has it right.
The younger brother was supposedly a "smart guy" and a normal kid, but his uncle characterized his as a loser. And he is beginning to sound a bit like a loser:
"The NYT obtained a transcript which showed seven Fs over two semesters this year and last year. One of the Fs came in an introduction to American politics, and another in principles of modern chemistry."
One of his friends though he was very strange:
Emily DeInnocentis, did think he was strange. At her house one time, he ”spread messy string cheese all over her couch” and “picked up her cat and (carried) it upstairs for no reason.” “We just didn’t invite him over after that. How many people just pick up your cat and go upstairs?”
The worst grades possible, mishandling cats, and lame homophobia (in some of his tweets). Book him, Danno.
R90, you made a bad assumption. I despise all orgainzed religion. Religion is the worst thing that man has ever invented.
Police were handcuffing his brother when he aimed the car for them. The cops jumped out of the way but he ran over his brother and dragged him halfway down the block.
The younger Tasnaev is a 9/11 denier. He posted a message on Twitter eight months ago that read: "Boston marathon isn’t a good place to smoke." The tweet was from user @J_Tsar - one of his accounts.
He also tweeted about his intent to grow a beard and how he ‘wanted out’ of American life.
R94, save that BS for someone gullible enough to believe you. It's obvious that you're deleting cookies/evading trolldar.
[quote]He also tweeted about his intent to grow a beard
There you go: Proof of his evil!
[quote]Keep up, [R29]. His brother was already dead.
According to an Wolfe Blitzer's interview with the Chief of BPD, the brother was not dead. He was still alive when he was being transported to the hospital. It's possible he could have survived had it not been for the younger brother running over him.
Who knows? Maybe it was intentional. Maybe they both hatched a plan that neither would be caught alive.
r82/r89 can we stick with the topic at hand? If you want to talk about GWB, the Middle East or whatever, start your own thread.
I don't see how J-har's age changes anything. Teenagers kill people too. It's not that rare. Does that mean we should feel sorry for them and let them go home to Mommy at the end of the day? (of course it goes without saying that I mean white teenagers)
Note: In not one of the pictures we see of young Tsarnaev flying around the internet does his small weak smile reach his eyes. There is something off there (friends and family mention smiling all the time- yet that was never captured in photos?). I would not characterize him as "happy" from any photographs I've seen.
Agree, OP. What the kid did was horrible and deserves punishment, but I have no bloodlust for him.
I feel sad for him.
The brother died at the hospital.
R97, you are deranged. Please check yourself into the Looney Lounge.
Currently, Tsarnaev is not in good shape and lost a lot of blood, explained CBS News correspondent John Miller. The suspect has a bullet wound to what appears to be the back of his neck and another to his leg. But it's bullet wound to the neck that is actually pretty intriguing to investigators.
Of course, he and his brother were in a big shoot-out," said Miller. "But [investigators are] saying that wound to the back of the neck is very possibly a suicide attempt. They say it appears from the wound that he might have stuck a gun in his mouth, and fired and actually just went out the back of his neck without killing him. That's one of the reasons he's unable to communicate, but he can understand what they're saying. And they believe there will be a point where he will be able to talk to him.
I am not r89.
And the day I take orders from a self-appointed hall monitor like yourself is not any day I foresee.
They both had a suicide pact. They never intended to be caught alive. The older brother practically charged at the cops. He wanted to take out as many of them as possible before being taken down.
[quote]He sounds like a sweet kid
You have some pretty severe emotional problems to be able to identify with this killer, OP. "Sweet kids" don't plant bombs next to random people, let alone a young boy with his whole life ahead of him.
Nice deadpan humor from God Himself:
"This situation is going to end up making Dzhokhar a relatively unpopular name."
r106 then by all means babble on about a topic that is not even remotely related to the Boston bombings. There are idiots like you and r82 in every thread: people who think want to bring everything in but the kitchen sink.
R104, LOL of course you'd say that because I called you out and the truth hurts. You're too dense to realize how your posts at R88, R89, and R106 gave you away. Your type makes it so easy. Why don't you go back to calling us assholes for not sympathizing with these Islamic, psychopathic murders. And how they aren't really monsters.
A 19 yr old today is not the same as a 19 yr old from our parents' generation or even ours. They are jaded already at 18yrs old!
He knew what he was doing, and the fact that he went back to school and even to a party after the bombing speaks volumes about him.
I had a little bit of sympathy for him but not anymore after reading how "normal" he appeared after the bombing etc.
Before the brother arrived at Beth Israel, he was already in cardiac arrest.
His doctors said that they could not revive him. They had a press conference and briefly described his numerous injuries but they left the medical examiner to determine the cause of death.
He's probably uncut.
From the Washington Post account these two guys really did execute that MIT cop. They have it all on video from the campus. it shows them walking up to his car and talking to him & then one of them taking out his gun and shooting him several times and then shooting him in the head. I'm not getting warm & fuzzy from this guy.
I get that he's young but I think we're responding to what the friends have been saying about him & not his actions. Maybe because he was in the US longer, he was just a better actor than his brother. A lot of the friends coming forward seem to only know him superficially since several didn't even know he had a brother. He sounds very cold bloodied to me. He even tweeted a joke about the victims.
No, the analogy is clearly there, r110. You're just either in denial about it or you're a control freak... or both.
p.s.--Before you start calling someone else an idiot, maybe you want to consider getting your poster numbers straight first. First you claimed at r107 I was the same person as r89 (not true); now you're claiming I'm a different person than myself.
R111, i am R88 & 89 but not 106. And i'll say it again, you are cuckoo, crazy, nuts, deranged - and not the brightest bulb in the tree!
R115, yes, that's just a facade, everybody wears a mask in their daily life. You act a certain way at work coz you want your co-workers or boss to think a certain way about you etc.
The fact is nobody knows who the fuck anybody is really like behind closed doors. Happy couple may be really miserable and just faking it.
The question I have is why anyone would seek to identify themself with someone that is shown to have coldly slaughtered others. He showed absolutely no mercy to those he slaughtered. Why the self identification and appeal?