...he would have to be one sick, twisted motherfucker. How in the HELL can people still buy into this bullshit nonsense?
If he actually existed I'd love to meet him so I could kick his ass.
Fuck you, God.
OP, they always claim the free will clause, which is only used conveniently. Free will does not apply to those of us who do not want to be saved by their sky fairy.
I lost a job arguing that point with a hard-core fundie boss.
But he's got the whole world in his hands.
he'd be a stranger on the bus trying to make his way home
Why so angry at the nonexistent, OP?
Having been forced to read the Old Testament as a young teen, I always laugh at the Xtians who rail about violence in video games and films affecting their spawn.
There has never been a more spiteful, vengeful, disaster wreaking motherfucker in all the world of fiction than god.
What astounds and befuddles me is that when something awful happens, the first thing they do is form prayer groups and pray pray pray.
Why can't they see that if "god" is the all knowing all powerful being they imagine, he must have known what he was letting happen before it happened. That being the case, why would the thoughts of a handful of rubes change his mind???
The only answer I ever get to my question is the uber-vague "free will". WTF?
[quote]Fuck you, God.
Isn't that a song title from "The Book of Mormon?"
OP = going to hell
I'm with you, OP. Hell, I'm more likely to believe in a literal sky fairy than I am to believe in the Christian god.
Legends for gullible and primitive people who are very superstitious.
In other words, if everything is "God's will" then why do Christians spend so much time praying & protesting?
I wonder how many religious have read the bible...sick and twisted book.
All I can do is my best, OP! *sobs*
"Fuck you, God.
Wasn't that the working title of "I Want to Live"?
I love it when someone talks up "an all-powerful, all-loving God." He's one or the other. Can't be both.
I believe in God, or at least in some spiritual energy/force. Too many things have happened in my life that cannot be explained away as random. I've told this story here before. A few years ago, I was at my mentally worst and was contemplating suicide. One day I went to an isolated area of my city's park to think it all through. a place I'd normally go to for solace and peace of mind. There was another guy there that day too. He approached me, needing a stranger to talk to. It turned out that he too was contemplating suicide. We wound up talking for several hours and talked each other out of going through with it. Other "odd" events have happened in my life as well, but this one was different. I sincerely believe that God, or some spiritual force, led us there to meet up that day. I still get chills thinking about it. Believing in a God or a spiritual energy/force doesn't necessitate believing in the bible. I think a lot of that is contrived nonsense to keep the masses in line.
It is possible that horrors like the Holocaust, AIDS, and terrorist bombings are meant to have a significant meaning, such as bringing people together, eliciting compassion for others, or dispelling ignorance/fear for people and things that are different from you. It's a terrible cliche, but sometimes we can't see the forest for the trees. Just my 2 cents.
[quote]It is possible that horrors like the Holocaust, AIDS, and terrorist bombings are meant to have a significant meaning, such as bringing people together, eliciting compassion for others, or dispelling ignorance/fear for people and things that are different from you.
Couldn't an omnipotent God find another way?
[quote] It is possible that horrors like the Holocaust, AIDS, and terrorist bombings are meant to have a significant meaning, such as bringing people together, eliciting compassion for others, or dispelling ignorance/fear for people and things that are different from you.
Yes, R15, I'm sure that each and every victim of the Holocaust, for example, who endured unspeakable horrors and unimaginable torture and pain, took comfort in knowing that there was a bigger goal, one that brought people together. It's awesome that God put so much thought into things like that.
Fuck God, and fuck R15.
Yep, I am in line with R15. "Free will" means that God (or whatever energy source or spiritual definition you want to have. I am not an organized religion believer. No sky fairies!) allows everyone to do whatever we want, good or evil, helpful or hurtful. God won't "stop" it and is not manipulating mankind like a puppeteer, stopping us from hurting ourselves or from "bad things happening to good people." Here, babies die and bad things happen and we have to deal. This life plane or whatever we are in is not ABOUT utopian bliss with no pain. No pain means no growth, no learning. I think there is a lot to learn while we are here on this earth. Or in this "reality," whatever it is. There are consequences for our actions, though. Ripple effects. Effects that are not even immediately evident.
And R16, play God. Ya GOT another way? Just what would that be?
Humans cannot experience their HUMANITY without existing in a place of opposites. Joy cannot be experienced without the existence of sadness. Peace cannot exist without war. Health could not be experienced without the existence of sickness. LIFE could not be experienced without the existence of death. We, as humans, are arrogant that we have brains that can even figure most of this out. We are "inside the snow globe" and are trying to understand whatever it is that not only created the globe but is shaking it!
Of course he could R16 but R15 is a beleiber.
"Couldn't an omnipotent God find another way?"
That's the thing. If you believe in God, there are many things you can't, and are not meant to, understand. But one can still be intellectually curious. It's almost impossible to fathom the reason behind a tragedy like AIDS. However, if you take the "forest for the trees" argument, maybe it was God's way of eliciting compassion and understanding for gay people in order to pave the road for greater acceptance of gay marriage and nonconvential lives. However overwhelmingly horrible the AIDS epidemic has been, you have to remember that this has only been going on for 30 years. There will most likely be a cure or effective vaccine with the next generation. In the scheme of things, if you look at the world as billions of years old, this is just a blip, if that, on the calendar.
R14, says who? Parents let children fall down go boom every single day because they have to LEARN. They have to break arms on the playground and scrape their knees and get HURT to learn how to treat themselves, how to treat each other, how to love, how to have compassion. The human race might just be taking many milleniums to learn, if they ever do. But perhaps "God," OUT of love, allows us to keep trying. Although we fail miserably every single day. Many many many DO learn. With all the evil and hurt in the world, there is also much beauty and love. It's just not a 100% deal. Yet. If ever.
[quote] Yep, I am in line with [R15]. "Free will" means that God...allows everyone to do whatever we want, good or evil, helpful or hurtful. God won't "stop" it and is not manipulating mankind like a puppeteer, stopping us from hurting ourselves or from "bad things happening to good people."
Yes, well R15 seems to believe that "God" sent some stranger to the park to talk him out of suicide, so I guess you're not in line with R15.
[quote] That's the thing. If you believe in God, there are many things you can't, and are not meant to, understand.
I love it! It's the old cop-out response "God works in mysterious ways."
It's all BULLSHIT.
Ancient civilizations had organized religion and worshipped their gods just as people worship God today. The difference? They all died out and we now commonly accept their religion and their gods as "mythology."
I long for the day when christianity and judaism and islam all die out (and they will) and are referred to by future generations as "mythology."
R22, yes, I am. I did not mention that God might, indeed, "speak" to people or show up in confusing or mysterious or spiritual ways. As I said, it's all bigger than we can figure out with our finite human arrogance. If God tried to "talk someone out of something," then that person STILL can go right ahead and kill himself.
This is a much bigger discussion than many people can even have, with limited intelligence (I am not slamming anyone here, either) or their fear of thinking BIGGER or of alternate possibilities. I just know that I don't know and that is the WONDER of it all to me. One thing I cannot stand is to try to talk to people who think they have it all figured out. Or "Christians." Ugh.
I actually think that people who DO have cynicism or QUESTION the existence of God are smarter people. I just am a bit put off by the level of sarcasm and anger and smugness that goes along with that, particularly with many gay posters here. I think most of that comes from the built in anti-gay agenda that most organized religions adhere to. It's insulting and infuriating.
Again, using the forest for the trees argument, maybe the individual religions mean absolutely nothing at face value, but were established as a challenge or test for people to overcome their bigotry and prejudice and accept others who are different. I tend to view life as a series of challenges and obstacles to overcome. Growing up gay, I used to think that being gay was THE challenge I needed to overcome. As time progressed, I came to feel that the actual challenge to overcome was my self-loathing and intolerance of who I was.
[quote]I long for the day when christianity and judaism and islam all die out (and they will) and are referred to by future generations as "mythology."
If that's the case, they'll just be replaced by another "mythology."
[quote] I did not mention that God might, indeed, "speak" to people or show up in confusing or mysterious or spiritual ways.
Oh, well thank you so much for mentioning it now! So God pops in and out of our lives when he feels like it? So the guy who goes to the park to contemplate suicide gets the "God intervention" treatment, but someone else who prays to God that their child survive a gunshot wound - sometimes God is what, too exhausted to show up, so the kid dies? What the FUCK are you talking about? God is a fucking MYTH.
Now excuse me while I go pray to Venus, the goddess of love, to bring me a boyfriend. I hope she's not too exhausted today and decides to show up in some confusing or mysterious or spiritual way.
God was invented by man to control other men through fear and ignorance.
And now we have people using events like what happened in Boston yesterday to control others through fear and ignorance.
Nothing ever changes.
r29, why are you so angry? It's cool if you don't believe in God (or more likely, a spiritual force or energy), but why denigrate those who do? Sure, there's a subpopulation of religious people who attempt to legislate their views, which is abhorrent, but I sincerely believe that those people are in the minority. Most spiritual people I've encountered throughout my life are good, caring, sensitive people who are intellectually curious and who attempt to challenge their own views.
Thank you, R31. That's an example of the offputting anger and sarcasm I was referring to.
R18 you're asking *me* to play God?
We've got enough people trying to do that as it is.
Why do the lazy, entitled children who have an issue with their daddies always have to post here and pretend that their issue is with a god?
I think the "anger" comes from the horrific amount of damage religion has produced across the ages.
Some of you, like R18, describe things that happen in nature. It's the ancient human foible of having to put a super-human (god-like) face on things to make them more understandable, or controllable, in a sense.
There is absolutely no difference between this and the myths of old, or current--those that still believe in a multitude of gods, or various superstitions.
All of this would be harmless if it weren't for the other equally ancient human foible--the desire to dominate others. So many have suffered and continue to suffer behind this.
[quote]A few years ago, I was at my mentally worst and was contemplating suicide. One day I went to an isolated area of my city's park to think it all through. a place I'd normally go to for solace and peace of mind. There was another guy there that day too. He approached me, needing a stranger to talk to. It turned out that he too was contemplating suicide. We wound up talking for several hours and talked each other out of going through with it. Other "odd" events have happened in my life as well, but this one was different. I sincerely believe that God, or some spiritual force, led us there to meet up that day.
So...where was God for all of the people who successfully commit suicide each year w/o any intervention? Not to burst your bubble, but a lot of people go to parks when they want to contemplate life. I've done it myself. God did not send me there.
r37, I was just relating my personal experience. Maybe it was a coincidence, maybe it was not. The odds of two suicidal people meeting up in a very isolated area of a park, an area where I'd gone countless times to think and clear my head before and had never encountered anyone, are remarkably slim. Other, similar though less memorable events have happened. I have no idea why we may have been guided to the park, just as I have no idea why some force doesn't intervene when someone falls on the subway tracks in front of an oncoming trai. I just don't think everything that happens to us is totally random. I believe less in a God than in an energy/force in nature.
I agree with OP.
You mad OP?
as a rather precocious 11 year old child I was booted from Sunday School after stating, "None of this makes any sense. Science and logic demystify everything you are telling us.
That had a strange effect on me. I became inordinately curious about the mythology of all religions. When I finally reached a place with some duty ans sense of reason, a private university which self identifies as Methodist(a bit of a hoot seeing as the bulk of the student body are Jewish and their mascot is a Devil) I took several electives in religion. I was relieved that in academia even the professors of Divinity are open to wide interpretations of faith and religion, and yes, the word mythology was frequently spoken.
I agree with the poster who said that we are in an "era" of mythology which will shift/morph into a completely different group of mythologies by the turn of the century when the Bible and Koran have been completely debunked by science and human intelligence.
[quote]Most spiritual people I've encountered throughout my life are good, caring, sensitive people who are intellectually curious and who attempt to challenge their own views.
If that were true, a whole lot more of them would end up atheists.
How can there be so many gay Sky Faerie worshipers on DL. I though gay men were supposed to be more intelligent than average.
R43... or at least more personally aware of how much of religion is a lie (as in, everything it says about gays), thus why assume the rest of it ISN'T a lie? It's all lies. It's all made up B.S.
I don't have a problem with God. I have a problem with religion. Two very different things, IMO.
For an interesting and quick book, read The Messiah of Morris Avenue.
It is a short book, and it poses interesting questions, and it doesn't really try to answer them.
There are trillions of trillions of planets in the universe, and possibly multiple universes. Even if there is a God, he doesn't give a flying FUCK about you, me, or any other human being on this tiny speck of nothingness floating in an infinite sea of space. Snap out of it!
These "god" threads are always pretty contentious. The atheists inevitably start insulting and bullying. Always. Have seen it for the decade I have been visiting Datalounge. Not sure where that anger comes from but I am pretty sure part of it comes from the anger of not believing there is a God, that there is "proof" of that, and that people who are quite content to have alternate belief systems are somehow to be mocked and ridiculed.
We all get to believe what we want to believe as long as it doesn't hurt anyone ELSE. Apparently not believing in God equates with not believing in respecting other's beliefs and being impolite and disrespectful?
Until the world gets over its addiction religious fables, the human race will never be able to truly advance into the future.
Ending the belief in religion and moving towards a science based society, is an important part in the evolution of any intelligent species.
OP, Why are so angry about your disbelief in something?
Is it to rile up those of us who do believe in God? Because I think you'll notice that on all these threads, we don't get too involved.
My belief that Jesus Christ is the Son of God, is something that I know on a spiritual level that cannot be proven wrong in any scientific way.
R49, you "know" nothing of the sort... not without horribly bastardizing the definition of the verb "to know".
And your "believe" exists only because you were brainwashed at an early age. If your parents had been jewish, you'd not believe it. If your parents had been Hindu, you'd believe something different.
When you can explain in detail, precisely how this "Jesus" you believe in is materially different from a child's believe in "Santa", maybe I'll listen to you.
And why the anger? Because idiots like you push your imaginary B.S. on everyone else constantly... to the point of legislating it. All you're seeing is blowback from your own ignorant arrogance.
These "god" threads are always pretty contentious. The religionists inevitably start insulting and bullying. Always. Have seen it for the decade I have been visiting Datalounge. Not sure where that anger comes from but I am pretty sure part of it comes from the anger of knowing that others have seen through the scam, that there is no God, that there is no "proof" of that, and that people who are quite content to have alternate belief systems are somehow to be mocked and ridiculed.
reply 35"I think the "anger" comes from the horrific amount of damage religion has produced across the ages."
The damage is caused by human beings. And we can destroy the world or our fellow human beings regardless of philosophical belief. Humans are mammals driven by aggression, envy, sex and acquisitiveness, we always will be, regardless of whether or not you believe in anything.\t
[quote]The atheists inevitably start insulting and bullying. Always.
You're confused. They're REACTING to being insulted and bullied their entire lives for not beliving in irrational and obvious lies.
See how you'd feel after a lifetime of that.
[quote]Not sure where that anger comes from
Seriously? Are you that fucking clueless? In a country where many states BAN atheists from holding public office, and where religious people are constantly trying to inflict their idiotic and baseless beliefs on others through force of law? You have NO idea where that anger comes from?
Just how clueless are you?
[quote]but I am pretty sure part of it comes from the anger of not believing there is a God
You have absolutely no clue. You couldn't possibly be more wrong if you tried. (and isn't that the problem?)
[quote]We all get to believe what we want to believe as long as it doesn't hurt anyone ELSE
Well great. How about you get started on that, why don't you? Because that would sure be a nice change.
[quote]Apparently not believing in God equates with not believing in respecting other's beliefs and being impolite and disrespectful?
No, apparently BELIEVING in God equates with not beliving in respecting facts & reality, and being authoritarian in trying to force everyone to belive your dogma.
If you're so sure there's a heaven, and it's so great there.........why don't you kill yourself? And why do you still cry at funerals? Please advise.
[quote]Is it to rile up those of us who do believe in God? Because I think you'll notice that on all these threads, we don't get too involved.
ROFLMAO.... Oh, my.... you don't actually read these threads, do you?
[quote]Sure, there's a subpopulation of religious people who attempt to legislate their views, which is abhorrent, but I sincerely believe that those people are in the minority.
Your sincere belief blatantly contradicts the facts known of the human population here on earth, hence, delusional.
The posts from religious people in these threads always leads me to the conclusion that religious people are basically oblivious, incurious, and rather mindless.
Why don't Christians just change the Jesus name to "Penelope" and then repeat all the things that you do in the name of "Penelope", so you understand how ridiculous you sound.
Oh...Penelope is good to me,
and so I thank Penelope,
for giving me, the things I need,
the sun and rain and the apple seed,
Oh Penelope, is good to me!
R53, LOL, oh, thanks. You came in right on cue.
I don't doubt there's an ultimate "force" somewhere, but I know there is no man-imagined god/GOD. All the imaginings of the religious are simply their wish to have a man-god "protecting" them. Obviously there is no such thing, but except for those believers who want to kill everyone who think deeper than they do, dead, it wouldn't be all that harmful. Faith is wonderful because it doesn't require any thinking.
One is never too stupid for religion.
And R59, you have no argument or rebuttal do you?
Tell me... why don't you believe in Odin? Zeus? Shiva? YOU UNBELIEVER!
There are 30,000 gods in active worship around the world today.
The only real difference between atheists and christians is that atheists believe in one less god.
Religions are all bullshit !
[quote]One is never too stupid for religion.
[quote] The atheists inevitably start insulting and bullying. Always.
Ever since the topic of bullying became the national meme, people toss the word around effortlessly to get a reaction.
I am a hardcore atheist. If you believe in god, I basically think you're a fucking idiot who can't think for himself. That's me INSULTING you. I am not BULLYING you. So stop playing a victim for your belief in mythology. You're not a victim, you're a sheep. And I know you christians like to be thought of as sheep.
Six percent of all scientists are religious.
Scientists still cannot explain why the number is that high.
Every response posted is written by those who have a sentimental view of what and who God is. God loves all, including those who commit atrocities because he is the ultimate judge. He loves all in spite of their sins.
He is not "Mother Nature" who doesn't care what you think or do.
All things are God. The secular moralists are too self-righteous to see their own sins, therefore they probably have difficulty atoning for them.
So, you would rather live in a "Good Ship Lollypop" world? Is that what you're saying? Do you know how fucking boring that would be? Do you know how shallow that would make us?
You see, some of us are mature enough to accept that this place is one big school. Set up to make us stronger, not to keep us slaves to lollypops, unicorns and sparkly things.
It's an uphill bowling alley that grows our spiritual muscles, and like in the process of making a pearl, this world prepares us for eternal life.
Granted, I don't get why some of us must suffer more than others or why life seems so unfair, but we can't see the whole picture. We're insects floating on the surface, unaware of the large body of water below, and of the great space above.
[quote]The secular moralists are too self-righteous to see their own sins, therefore they probably have difficulty atoning for them.
More blatant and obvious bullshit from someone who is utterly clueless, yet obviously very judgmental.
[quote] a believer who has been witness to a supernatural redemption
I'm a non-believer who witnesses the same thing every time I fuck a hot bubble butt.
The six percent of "scientists" that are religious are priest and nuns. They can rationalize anything.
R67, that's a nice fantasy you believe in. But there is no eternal life. There is no life after death. And even if there were, by definition, you woudln't know about it (so why do you believe others who insist THEY know about something that is by defintion unknowable??)
I agree we can't see the whole picture. What I object to is how Religious people fill in all those gaps with fantasies and make-believe, rather than just saying "I don't know, and that's okay"...
[quote] I don't get why some of us must suffer more than others or why life seems so unfair, but we can't see the whole picture.
Why, that's because.....wait for it.....God works in mysterious ways!
There. All the mysteries of life have now been answered with that one statement. It explains anything you could possibly wonder about!
Agreed OP, the kooky disconnect with reality of religious people drives me insane! I saw something simple and brilliant on FaceBook today. It said "I WOULD save children from getting raped if I could. THAT'S the difference between ME, and your GOD!"
Yet R71 is so sure there is no eternal life, but criticizing those who THINK that there is. He's so sure, he must be God, himself.
Organized religion in the number 1 source of the hatred directed towards the LGBT community in the world.
Trying to get LGBT people to believe in the goodness of religion or religious people is like trying to get black people to believe in the goodness of the KKK.
And this is where I check out. Ugly ugly thread now.
My parting comment is "I don't know and that's okay." Namaste.
[quote]Yet [R71] is so sure there is no eternal life, but criticizing those who THINK that there is.
I'm sure there are no unicorns too.
And until you can provide even a SHRED of evidence, even the SLIGHTEST notion of how such a thing would work, it's on YOU to prove it exists, not ME to prove it doesn't.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
And you've got nothing. Zilch. Nada. Less than zero, in fact. Because all actual evidence and reason that exists (ALL of it) points to the utter lack of a separate eternal soul that contains our identities and personalities and that lives on after our bodies die.
ALL evidence points to the fact that our physical brains ARE our minds and personalities, and that when we die, our minds and personalities cease to exist... just like software does when you unplug or shut-down the computer that it's running on.
What kind of a fucked up parent creates a world for his kids where there are things that can hurt or kill them and then lets them run free in that world just to "make them learn" or "test" them? That's not a loving parent. That's abuse.
People still buy into this nonsense because they are afraid of death and want to believe that life continues in a better place when they leave this world.
That's ridiculous, R73. If God gave us free will, He can't turn around and intervene.
Believe me, you wouldn't want to live in that kind of world. Where you know that you and your loved ones will be rescued from any action they take.
Not to mention, this life is a very brief blip on the radar. If let's say this is a school, it kind of defeats the purpose if God intervenes all the time.
Maybe this is a sorting out process...to sort the wheat from the chaff, so to speak. He did say those who come first in this world, will come last in His world, and it's easier for camel to go through the eye of a needle, than a rich man to get into Heaven.
Guess what? We're all the rich men...right here on DL. That is, compared to 95-99% of the world. And it appears He's right.
But R78, God is there to protect them! All they have to do is pray and he will listen. But if something bad does happen, either they weren't praying hard enough, or it was just God's will. That crazy son of a bitch does, after all, work in mysterious ways.
The key to the religious is their "faith." Besides the general feeling that our existence or that nature in general proves the existence of God, their fall-back position is that they choose to believe based on gut feelings, tradition, shared community, desire of an afterlife in the sky or whatever else supports their faith.
Some of us think that blind faith is not likely to get one closer to the truths of reality. Others don't want to think too hard about it and gladly accept what other trusted individuals tell them as gospel truth.
[quote] They can rationalize anything.
Just like Antonin Scalia (and a couple of his bigoted cronies) will rationalize his blind hatred of gays in his minority opinion of Proposition 8 and DOMA.
They say when you go to heaven you're greeted and surrounded by your loved ones. What if I'm the kind of person who just wants to be left the fuck alone? Being surrounded by "loved ones" sounds like my personal version of hell. I'm very conflicted about this. Help!
So wait, god is all knowing and loving and yet, we have "free will" so he won't intervene even when one of his believers needs him? If he is all knowing, then doesn't he know the outcome? How exactly is that "free will?" Or are you saying that god doesn't know the outcome and is just sitting back to see what happens, what choices you make, and if you love him by allowing bad things to happen?
Either god is all knowing or we have free will and he doesn't know jack. Either way, he's a shitty god.
[quote]My parting comment is "I don't know and that's okay." Namaste.
Ohmygawd! Said without an ounce of irony! "Namaste"! Another GOOP devotee, obviously, and probably still wearing her Kabbalah red string bracelet too! Ha, but this time she means to say "Drop Dead Fuckers!" Hilariously damaged goods! Tragic, but really who has time to give a shit about these loons. Let's use Troll-dar to see if "this is where I check out", really stays out, or if they can't resist peeking and posting.
"Couldn't an omnipotent God find another way?"
What do you have in mind? A god who strikes people dead the minute they get a bad thought? Or a god who controls your every thought?
People of faith and belief can rationalize anything - you would be surprised. It continues to amaze me that anyone really believes that this all has some purpose.
If you believe God is watching your every move, you have a horrifically grandiose sense of self-importance.
Religious people never think outside the tiny little box their minds are trapped within.
They never consider the VAST majority of human beings aren't their relgion... aren't Christian at all.
Why would their god create so many human beings that don't know Him? And never will?
Why do Christians think they have a monopoly on The Truth?
If God wants me to believe he exists, then why'd he make himself invisible to all of my senses?
OP, not if.
God does exist in some people's minds. As does heaven, hell, Satan, sin, temptation, suffering, etc. This is their world. And people who don't believe in God and all that is attached to this belief (heaven, hell, satan, etc.) is an alien from a different world and therefore a threat to the believers' world.
Humanity is groomed into attacking each other fighting over what is right or wrong, fighting to be superior, fighting for victory, fighting to distract ourselves from the powers to be own actions and agenda.
Are you being told what to believe? Do you believe all what you are being told?
It's a cult--RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!!! And think for yourself!
Religion is for sociopaths. It is for people who don't trust and like themselves for the occasional dark thoughts we all have. It's okay to have dark thoughts. Very normal. Religious people don't trust themselves and mankind. It's okay to not trust mankind but if you need religion it means you don't trust yourself. If you are innately a good person, you won't need religion. Always look at religious people with a jaundiced eye. They haven't figured out what true good souls will question. Never, ever trust a religious person. Goodness comes from the soul. It doesn't need conforming rules, it just is.
If you need the carrot of 'heaven', and the stick of 'hell', in order to behave as a decent person... you are NOT a decent person.
I don't have a religion or faith, but no way is religion or faith responsible for the tendencies of humans. The other way around, perhaps. Without religion, humans would just find other excuses to act out their tendencies (selfishness, etc.).
I mean...really, who flipping cares what the hell other people think?
Who on earth can even claim to know what other people think?
Why fight about something as inconsequential as whether or not god is real?
Do we really need to fight more? Do we really need more things to fight about?
Please tell me why this makes you so angry.
Please also tell me why this is such a big deal.
If you say religion makes people be assholes, then why are you an asshole if you're not religious?
[quote]Without religion, humans would just find other excuses to act out their tendencies (selfishness, etc.).
Sure. Because we all know no one in religion is selfish.
[quote]Why fight about something as inconsequential as whether or not god is real?
Because people pass laws to govern the lives of other people, fly planes into buildings, wage war, abuse family members, and far worse all based on what they think "god" wants.
It's not an argument about whether "Breaking Bad" is better than "The Sopranos," which is what you're trying to make it sound like.
You're gonna burn in hell.
I believe in God, but not the god of the bible.
I don't think our universe (and all the infinite parallel universes) are an accident.
I don't believe in an all powerful all knowing being. It' s just not possible for an entity to be in everyone's shit everywhere (Earth and all the inhabited planets that must exist).
Why would an all powerful entity give a rats ass what I'm going to eat for dinner (to the point of planning it 15 billion years ago)...
I have been reading this book The Fall:The Insanity of the Human Ego In History by Steve Taylor. It is a fascinating look at human kind starting in prehistoric times which shows humanity was peaceful, egalitarian and matrist women were equal to men, sexuality was not shameful but natural, children were respected and the natural world was not looked at with fear as something to conquer or exploit. But at a point around 3000 bce something happened and there emerged a people that began to make war and instill an aggression toward women, children and the natural world.
They suggest the reason for this change had to do with the climate change, the stresses and fear and aggression it brought (the fall).
It's making a lot of sense to me and I highly recommend it.
If Jesus Albert Arthur Christ made everything perfect here on earth, no one would want to die and go to heaven. There would be no leverage to get us to quit breathing and lay in that box for burial. All of JAAChrist's suffering and slaughter on the cross would have been for naught. There would have been no incentive for monks to become artistic and scribulate all those bibles instead of whacking off. Gutenberg would never have been motivated to invent the printing press.
Can't you see, Jesus Albert Arthur Christ's hands were not only pierced with nails, but his hands were tied too.
Thank you for posting that 96. The faces of the children look familiar. The mother wasn't religious as much but was bipolar and when on rants totally sober. Always about anyone doing her wrong. The thing is, if someone acts like that while high or drunk, it can be fixed. When people are stone cold sober like that, well, you have to blame the SO for not protecting their children. What do you think her diagnosis would be? The children never recover and get antsy when ANYONE shows emotion or passion. I know that woman is thankfully dead now. Her poor children and their wuss of a father.
Religion is such utter bullshit.
Moreover, what I've always known:
Deep down, most so-called "believers" know this better than anybody, but they can't admit it to themselves, much less to other people.
Why is it so hard to believe that when you die it's LIGHTS OUT!? Why delude yourself with thinking you're going anywhere other than the same place you were before you were born (aka nowhere)?
r110, Before I was born I was in Cleveland. I was very content being dust on a 53 Plymouth Savoy. Then all of a sudden I was swished (that's why I'm gay) into this over heated damp place and transformed into me with legs and arms.
I don't think that sweet little old Plymouth Savoy is still in Cleveland, so I have no idea where I will end up when this gig is complete.
Completely missing the point, R102, to the effect that you shouldn't assert that you're observant at all. I know people of religion are selfish. The point is that, religion as a constructed system, is the result of human tendencies. Not the other way around, believe it or not. If you think humanity at large would end up more generous, peaceful and kind without religion, think again.
In a way, animals are more intelligent than humans in that they don't make up fairytales to justify and explain their existence.
Man has always created gods in his own image.
Rational arguments don't usually work on religious people. If they did, there wouldn't be religious people.
Rational arguments can also be made FOR the existence of God. It's not a black and white debate, such as one about whether or not the earth is round or flat. Plenty of extremely intelligent people believe in a God or force of nature.
[quote]Rational arguments can also be made FOR the existence of God.
Not really, no.
[quote]It's not a black and white debate, such as one about whether or not the earth is round or flat.
It's pretty close. Sorta like the evolution "debate"... one side full of facts, reason, history, and knowledge... and the other side full of ignorant wishful thinking, rationalizations, and denial.
The Lord works in mysterious ways, it is not for us to understand it all while we are on this earth.
"their fear of thinking BIGGER or of alternate possibilities."
Why 'bigger'? The notion of God is so paternalistic and authoritarian. I do agree that thinking 'other' is great... I think the straight-jacket of deity impedes truly original understandings of the Universe.
R105 You say you believe in a God, but then say, "I don't believe in an all powerful all knowing being. It' s just not possible for an entity to be in everyone's shit everywhere".
So my question is: What exactly does your "god" do? What's the point of him if he isn't powerful?
I don't understand people who blindly follow the bible and believe in god without question.
[quote]Having been forced to read the Old Testament as a young teen, I always laugh at the Xtians who rail about violence in video games and films affecting their spawn. There has never been a more spiteful, vengeful, disaster wreaking motherfucker in all the world of fiction than god.
Exactly. Why can't more people realize this?
[quote] Rational arguments can also be made FOR the existence of God.
Let's hear just one.
[quote] but no way is religion or faith responsible for the tendencies of humans. The other way around, perhaps.
You're delusional. Whatever the reasons for the creation and emergence of religions, the fervor caused by the brainwashing of religion has caused many people to do great harm in this world. They didn't just decide to do anything overnight. The brainwashing creates the tendencies.
Delusional, R125? What an exceptionally ignorant and narrow fool you are.
You think all human-caused pain is the result of only religious convolution? Bullshit. But, let's pretend it is for a moment. If you took it away, humans would not be any more "good" to each other. We'd fight directly in the name of property, resources, scientific ideas, and so on.
R126, studies have shown that religion doesn't make anyone behave better, but it's used as a rationalization by bad-guys for their bad behavior, allowing them to feel better about what they do.
There was even a thread on it in this very forum not that long ago.
R127, that's the biggest pile of bullshit ever written.
R128 = bashing what he doesn't understand, calling "bullshit" on several scientific studies even though he's not a scientist and hasn't read any of them.
No actual argument, evidence, or reasoning... just dismissal of anything that threatens his made-up beliefs.
Well, I'll admit I'm a little concerned about those less-intelligent, primitive folks who are only holding the line of decency because they think they're purchasing shares for that castle in heaven. If Bubba's not concerned about going to hell, he might just fuck the shit out of you and think nothing of it.
Careful what you wish for in abolishing all religion.
1)If you do something bad you'll rot in hell
2)If you do something bad you'll rot in prison
Without these two warnings there wouldn't be a single human left on earth
R127/129, I never said that religious people do/did behave better. That wasn't the argument.
Some of you must have been truly the weakest links on your respective world-class debate teams.
OP, you are not God. God is Sovereign and Eternal. The momentary afflictions of this world do not compare with the eternal majesty, sovereignty, and love of God. If you lose faith in God over the things of this world, perhaps your vision is too myopic, short-sighted, and worldly. Jesus told us that in order to see God, we have to see beyond this world, think and live with eternal perspective. Jesus knew it better than anyone has because He willingly gave His life for all who might believe in Him and therefore secure eternal life. IF one has faith in Christ, there is nothing in this world that is final, nothing truly fatal, because all in this world is passing away, only temporary. That is why the believer in Christ cannot lose hope by the mere events in this world. Jesus reigns sovereign over all things, even death.
"For our light and momentary troubles [in Christ] are achieving for us an eternal glory that far outweighs them all." 2 Corinthians 4:17
JESUS: "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."
[quote]God is Sovereign and Eternal.
[quote]The momentary afflictions of this world do not compare with the eternal majesty, sovereignty, and love of God.
Says who? And where exactly is the evidence for any of this? (it certainly isn't in the old testament)
[quote]If you lose faith in God over the things of this world, perhaps your vision is too myopic, short-sighted, and worldly.
Or maybe you're just casting aside lies, myths, and delusions for reason, and reality.
[quote]Jesus knew it better than anyone has because He willingly gave His life for all who might believe in Him and therefore secure eternal life.
Someone giving up dying for my sins, is like me stubbing my toe for their cheating on their diet. It doesn't even make sense.
[quote]IF one has faith in Christ, there is nothing in this world that is final, nothing truly fatal, because all in this world is passing away, only temporary.
So of all the billions and billions of human beings who have ever lived over the last million years, only those few that subscribe to YOUR specific religion over the past 2000 years get "eternal life"? Really?
Do you ever even stop to think about whether what you're saying makes ANY sense at all?
This is why God turned his back on you people. You turned your back on him. I found this thread last night during research for Bible study and I was appalled at what I saw. This nation has spent the last four decades excluding the Lord from everything. That is why we are failing.
You people hate Republicans and Conservatives, but if it wasn't for us you would all be in prison or dead from your Socialist leaders. You all despise us and praise Socialism. How well did gays fair in the former Soviet Union? How well do they fair in Cuba? Ask someone who escaped.
You all want separation of church and state. Well, you got it. Now look where we are! Your lifestyle is filthy and not fit for human consumption. God does still love you. There is time to redeem yourselves. I pray that you do.
Crying For YOU At This Very Moment
Prediction: OP will have a conversion experience and become a fervent believer of some sort.
This roiling anger and indignation at God is latent belief.
[quote]This is why God turned his back on you people. You turned your back on him.
So... he's vain, petty, and vindictive?
"I'm going to give you ZERO evidence to believe in me, and make a world full of pain and fear and violence and tragedy and unfairness... and then condemn you for not believing in me against all odds and reason"
Yeah, sounds like a real winner there. And you WORSHIP this asshole.
[quote]This nation has spent the last four decades excluding the Lord from everything. That is why we are failing.
we are not now and have never been a Christian nation, asswipe. Why are religious people so ignorant?
[quote]You people hate Republicans and Conservatives, but if it wasn't for us you would all be in prison or dead from your Socialist leaders.
More bullshit ignorant lies.
Every single decent thing about this country (it's middle class, standard of living, worker safety, health care, vacations, national parks, civil rights) were all forged by the blood of liberals and progressives...and fought tooth and nail by conservatives.
[quote]You all want separation of church and state.
The Founding Fathers wanted it. WITH GOOD REASON. Look to Iran for what happens when you don't have it.
God, you're an idiot. I hope you're just a troll, but sadly you probably aren't.
R138 = delusional engaging in wishful thinking (sorta sums up religion as a whole doesn't it?)
[quote]studies have shown that religion doesn't make anyone behave better, but it's used as a rationalization by bad-guys for their bad behavior, allowing them to feel better about what they do.
Religion gains some of its power by dealing with people's fear of death. Death Row inmates quite often find god, depending upon how heinous their crimes are. Many, Tex Watson for example, the prime butcher of the Manson family, founded his own ministry in prison.
Yeah, like that's gonna help.
Whatever, 140. Call me names all you want.
The only people who get so passionately angry and worked up like this at the notion of God are people who passionately need to believe.
Remember, someday, that someone called your bullshit.
The baby jesus been crying through this whole thread!
This whole thread!!
[quote]The only people who get so passionately angry and worked up like this at the notion of God are people who passionately need to believe.
Another completely empty assertion, completely made up, with absolutely zero evidence to back it up. Just like a religious person... they think saying something or "believing" something makes it true.
I'm not the one spouting bullshit dude. You're the one being called. Again, you're projecting your own insecurities. Like always.
If God actually existed...
his crippling inferiority complex and staggering constant need for validation would have caused him to kill himself long ago.
It seems like someone is being a Christ Troll, so that this thread can finally turn into what OP meant: "Let's Vent Our Hatred Of Christianity."
I doubt anyone was ever interested in discussing the theoretical or hypothetical existence of a god or gods. I'm beginning to think people just visit this site to...to...bitch hardcore, or something!
This is R138 (for the last time, might I add). I spent part of last night looking at the threads on this board. You people are even more heinous than I could ever have believed. I knew your bedroom habits were corrupt, but your thought processes and lack of compassion for others is sickening.
You people made fun of the Boston Marathon victims. You make fun of national treasures like Lucille Ball and Barbara Streisand. You say horrid things about celebrities you have never met. You slander them, actually. You say horrid things about people who disagree with your politics and deviance. You tell lies about Conservatives and businesses like Chick-Fil-A. The Lord is good and the Lord is forgiving. I hope you can find the right path, but unfortunately you likely won't.
I was very tolerant of you people (even though I am disgusted by your bedroom behavior) until now. Now I see that my Momma and Daddy were right, you're all disgusting, horrible people. I hope God destroys this world before you are given the right to 'marry' and adopt innocent children. I will pray for your souls.
I will not see your nasty responses. I will never come to this message board again. It is vile, sick, disgusting and satanic. My heart is heavy with what I have seen here. Good-bye!
Someone call the WHAAAAAAAmbulance for R147
[quote]You tell lies about Conservatives and businesses like Chick-Fil-A.
This we most certainly do NOT do.
[quote]I was very tolerant of you people
Said the homophobic bigot, right before he used the word "BUT..."
Yeah, right. Rationalize (and lie) much?
You should seek therapy. And lithium.
No R149, someone buy him a new sense of humor.
The Christ Troll isn't real, rookies.
YOU PEOPLE! YOU PEOPLE! YOU PEOPLE!
R138/R147 Sums up why I quit going to church when I was 15 (a bunch of hypocrites and flawed people hiding behind religion). My parents were huge Christians and tried to force me to continue to attend. I refused. Of course, when I came out two years later, they said I had turned gay because I turned my back on Jesus. Jeezus!
[quote]Jesus told us that in order to see God, we have to see beyond this world, think and live with eternal perspective.
The more I look beyond this world and into the infinity of space and time, the LESS I believe in God. And certainly no God who's watching over my every move. Puh-lease. I ain't that important! It's people with micro views--not macro views--that delude themselves with religious beliefs.
R151/152 Why do you think that person isn't genuine? I hear stuff like that every day from conservative co-workers. I stay on task and never call them on it (because they're idiots, it would do no good to confront their ignorant asses). I would not be surprised if they ARE genuine. Sounds like one of "THOSE PEOPLE" (to quote his/her words) to me.
R147 is apparently all-knowing, as he/she/it knows what our "bedroom behavior" consists of. Each and everyone one of us!
So the good Christian loses his shit and resorts to general phobery.
[quote]Well, I'll admit I'm a little concerned about those less-intelligent, primitive folks who are only holding the line of decency because they think they're purchasing shares for that castle in heaven.
Yep. It's a good point. And Voltaire made it, too.
Atheism for me, sure, but it's actually kinda nice to know the help believes there's an imaginary man in the sky watching everything they do....
Which is the whole point of religion btw. It ultimately brings power and security to the elite.
[quote]This roiling anger and indignation at God is latent belief.
But it's worth noting that the constant need to convert others is latent disbelief imho.
"This roiling anger and indignation at God is latent belief."
To some degree, I believe. It is a rage against God's authority, a type of rebellious effrontery against the fact that all will have to bow before the God Who is Sovereign over all.
JESUS: "The world cannot hate you, but it hates ME because I testify that its works are evil."
YOU WILL SURE KNOW GOD EXISTS WHEN YOUR BUTT IS BEING SPIT-ROASTED IN THE FLAMES OF HELL. HELL IS REAL AND YOU WILL SEE (AND FEEL) IT. DO NOT DENY THE LORD.
[quote][R151]/152 Why do you think that person isn't genuine?
Because they touched upon every single specific stereotype and worded it in a way that no weird, naive evangelical who would stumble upon DL would ever write it.
R137- our nation was created with the concept of the separation of church and state. And by church the Founding Fathers did not mean just Christianity. I read a lot of history and you, R137, need to read exactly what Washington, Adams, Jefferson, and Franklin were trying to and did accomplish. Their goal was never exclude religion(s) from civil society but rather to keep religion out of gov't, particularly a specific religion. Essentially the colonnization of North America was escape from European religious persecution in Europe!
I am with R26- why all the anger? I guess it is understandable due to the institutionalized homphobic positions of most organized religions- and lots of other stuff like institutionalized misogeny. But I do think that humans have a gene in them for needing the unexplainable explained- some sort of spiritual yearning. I know that I need often to let go of my will and "let it be", which often brings me peace of mind- I can even call it grace. I look to the "better angels" in people for guidance in times of dispair or confusion- and if I so chose I can call that a higher power- some version of a god- neither male nor female- American Indians were on to something worshipping
However the messing around of organized religion and religious leaders in politics and moral certainty world wide whether in the form of theocracy or the off the tracks hypocrisy of the Roman Catholic Church or the bully pulpits of American televangelists and their ilk- is, well, evil. I suppose that is why many get so angry about "God" and religion. But for many, religion and spirituality are private realms and a great comfort to them in the management of life's challenges. I take none of that away from anyone anymore than I would let some priest tell me I am an abomination while his church abuses children and launders money on an international scale (Vatican Bank). Never mind the Middle East etc.
The earth is nearly 5 billion years old and will probably go on for billions of years after the human race is gone. The age of the earth by the way is not theory- it is fact based on sound science, carbon dating etc. For humans to think that their particular god "reigns supreme" and that they figured that out in the last couple thousand years would seem the apex of narcisism. On the other hand there is evidence from the very beginning of our species of a longing for a spiritual life- and that longing has taken many forms. Unfortunately it also goes hand in hand with conflict and tyranny in its name.
I accept both as part of the human condition.
It comes down to this, as Jesus told us:
""Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for unless you believe that I AM He, you will die in your sins."
So did Jesus ever get laid before he, you know, had that whole nailed-to-the-cross thing happen to him? And if he did, did he yell out, "Oh Dad, I'm cumming!"
And does God get laid? And does he yell out, "Oh me, I'm gonna cum!" ?
It comes down to this. God is imaginary. We're born, we live and we die, just like all other living things.
R166 My sins are in the wash as we speak. Thank you for telling me this. I will never wear them again.
R166 I wouldn't be caught DEAD in MY sins.
I just wanna die with my boots on.
[quote] WHEN YOUR BUTT IS BEING SPIT-ROASTED IN THE FLAMES OF HELL.
Um, yeah. That'll happen. And you'll know the giant spaghetti monster is real when he's roasting you in a giant vat of sauce after you dieeeeeee!!!
Save it for Sunday and your fellow sheeple, churchy. You have no idea how thoroughly we see through your bullshit.
Really, just go to church and LEAVE GAY PEOPLE ALONE. LEAVE NON-BELIEVERS ALONE. DON'T TELL OTHER PEOPLE WHAT TO DO OUTSIDE YOUR CHURCH.
Why can't you churchy right wingers ever seem to manage that?
It is bullshit, R173. It's not an internet person who is serious.
R166, it does if you believe in Jesus as the Son of God, which for most human beings world wide is simply another religion. You assume something that is not on many people's radar. In our nation, by law, that is OK, just as it is for you to believe what you wrote. This has been so since our nation's founding, although not necessarily perfectly practiced.
Tolerance, live and let live. I believe both Christians and atheists can live "good lives" and need not tell each other (or anyone else) how to do it.
In which book of the bible can I find the verse "There once was a man from Nantucket...." ?
Bible thumpers, help me out!
Live and Let Die, we always say.
Paul McCartney & Wings
God DOES exist, honey. Her name is Barbra Joan Streisand. If you ever had any doubt, put on "Color Me Barbra" and you'll never doubt it again, sugar cheeks.
Who created God?
R179 The chicken, before it hatched.
R179, inventing "God" as an answer to life's questions doesn't work, as you note. It doesn't actually answer anything. It just moves the questino.
If the answer to "How did the Universe come to be?" is "God created it"... all that does is transfer the question to "How did God come to be?" ... you've answered exactly nothing, added exactly nothing to the debate or to human knowledge... for the answer to that question works just as well as the answer to the original question.
You're just playing 3-card monte with the questions hoping nobody notices the silght-of-hand.
"God" is just what people invoke when they mean "I don't know" or "I don't understand". I prefer to cut out the manufactured, pointless middle-man and just say up front "I don't know" or "I don't understand". It's really not that hard.
"The god of this age has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ."
2 Cor 4:4
Or in the words of Keyser Soze - "The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."
Study: Belief in an angry God associated with variety of mental illnesses
People who believe in an angry, punishing God are much more likely to suffer from a variety of mental illnesses, a scientific study published in the April edition of Journal of Religion & Health finds.
The study, conducted by Marymount Manhattan College Assistant Psychology Professor Nava Silton, used data from the 2010 Baylor Religion Survey of US Adults to examine the links between beliefs and anxiety disorders like social dysfunction, paranoia, obsession and compulsion.
R182, the greatest trick ever pulled was the religious leaders who came up with the notion that questioning or disbelieving the bullshit they were feeding the masses for their own agenda and glory could be termed as "the devil's work" and thus discouraged at every turn. IT's a self-reinforcing belief system (a pathological mind-virus) where any doubt is a sign that it's true and you are being 'tested'...
It's hilarious how gullible some people are.
There is no way a sane person could believe, much less worship this god. He is an asshole who thinks nothing of killing countless innocents simply because someone didn't kiss his ass enough. And those commandments he's put down are nothing but one cry for attention after another. "Don't go looking at any gods but me, dont dis my name and every week you need to spend one day thinking about how awesome I am." He's a petty, insecure, self absorbed bully. Fuck him.
Isn't it interesting how "god" (whichever god) always seems to want the same things as its worshipers?
In fact, "[italic]atheism[/italic]" is a term that should not even exist.
No one ever needs to identify himself as a "non-astrologer" or a "non-alchemist."
We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens have traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle.
Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs.
Well said, R187.
BREAKING NEWS: The Lord Almighty, aka TLA has agreed to reduced powers and henceforth be know forever more as a Constitutional Manarch. TLA has revealed HIS most productive constitutionals occur shortly after awakening in the am and can last for several hours if good reading material is available.
I always felt it was sort of a personal failing that I have absolutely no understanding of the religious impulse so many people have. Religion is just a complete mystery to me, not just its details (e.g., an omniscient and omnipotent, but completely inactive, God), but also the entire idea of it in the first place. What's the point? What difference does it make?
[quote] I always felt it was sort of a personal failing that I have absolutely no understanding of the religious impulse so many people have. Religion is just a complete mystery to me, not just its details (e.g., an omniscient and omnipotent, but completely inactive, God), but also the entire idea of it in the first place. What's the point? What difference does it make?
It is often a tragedy or difficult circumstance that brings you to have faith in God. It can take a while to realize that in most cases you don't perceive Him using your intellect. It also doesn't mean that you suddenly win the jackpot and are granted every wish. In my case, I have more peace, more patience with others in situations where before I would not have.
If you're just curious and open to what difference it could make in your life, I'd recommend reading the Gospel of John in the New Testament which gives you an idea of what Jesus taught. There are online versions, try the NIV version which is pretty standard. Have an open mind and heart and go from there.
The biggest misconception is that most Christians are flaky, pushy, and judgy.
[quote]It is often a tragedy or difficult circumstance that brings you to have faith in God.
When you break your leg, you frequently need a crutch until you get back to health. When you experience a mental trauma, sometimes you need a mental crutch, like believing that there is some invisible father-figure looking out for you, helping you in some completely indefinable way...
But once you're well, if you continue using the crutch, it actually HURTS you. Keep using the crutch and your leg will atrophy until you cannot walk without it. Keep up with the religion, and your mind will atrophy until you cannot function without it.
I guess that's why crutches are a billion dollar business.
R193, just like religion is. Don't fool yourself. First and foremost: it's a business. A way for a select few to get very wealthy.
[quote]Couldn't an omnipotent God find another way?
My thoughts exactly.
This quote is my favorite
[quote]When exasperated men rise up and sweep away an age-long tyranny and set a nation free, the first thing the delighted pulpit does is to advertise it as God's work, and invite the people to get down on their knees and pour out their thanks to him for it. And the pulpit says with admiring emotion, "Let tyrants understand that the Eye that never sleeps is upon them; and let them remember that the Lord our God will not always be patient, but will loose the whirlwinds of his wrath upon them in his appointed day." They forget to mention that he is the slowest mover in the universe; that his Eye that never sleeps, might as well, since it takes it a century to see what any other eye would see in a week; that in all history there is not an instance where he thought of a noble deed first, but always thought of it just a little after somebody else had thought of it and done it. He arrives then, and annexes the dividend.
Letters From The Earth - Mark Twain
[quote]There will most likely be a cure or effective vaccine with the next generation.
Because god has done so well curing Cancer (any day now) while eliciting sympathy for Cancer patients
15. Why does God choose to save those few he saves? Why does bad things happen to good people? Why does good things happen to bad people?
Why do some people experience pain and come out a changed, better man who has learned and grown from his pain, while others take the pain to heart and become negative and destructive?
Is that God? Or is it just psychology.
Why is so fucking hard to understand how much humans are in control of their own lives, how much good humans can do, how much bad humans can do? And how coincidences happen coindently, and sometimes leads to good things and other times bad things?
Why is it so hard?
It was that man in the park who saved your life, and you saved his. It was a coincidence that lead to a great thing. Maybe you needed to believe it was something divine in order to see the meaning of life, I don't know. There it is, psychology.
But by claiming it was God who saved you, it is an insult to all those who weren't so lucky.
Exactly, R197. Your last line is especially spot-on.
I think the nastiness and ignorance of God's followers are proof enough that "God" doesn't exist.
[quote] I think the nastiness and ignorance of God's followers are proof enough that "God" doesn't exist
Please give me an example on this thread where a believer was nasty and ignorant.
[quote] Please give me an example on this thread where a believer was nasty and ignorant.
I took R199's post as referring to the hypocritical Christian far right, who don't even realize that they're preaching hatred.
This sums up religion, in a nutshell:
[quote]I [italic]believe[/italic] it, so it's true... no further evidence needed. And if you argue, you're wrong and have personally insulted me.
Exactly, R201. It's not like you have to go far to see Christians being nasty. Drive through any town in the south. Watch any news show. Look at any Christian page on Facebook. Seriously... nasty, hating, hateful, vile bigots for the most part.
OP, I agree. Even IF there was a God, it doesn't change the fact that he would be one sick, sadistic fuck to let all the awful stuff that goes on in this world happen.
I don't know how people can keep believing this shit either.
If God existed I'd be a Satanist.
My favorite is right after a tornado has completely destroyed some poor saps house, but spared their lives, they will say "God was really looking out for us" and I just wanna scream at them, if God had been looking out for you, your house would still be standing and the tornado would have never happened.
If god actually existed, most christians, muslims, jews, would not stand a chance of.
I can understand being fed up with religion, priests, pastors, preachers...but why God?
[quote]I can understand being fed up with religion, priests, pastors, preachers...but why God?
Because the God of the Bible is a petty, self absorbed bully. He routinely kills countless innocents simply because he wasn't getting his ass kissed to the degree he expects. And not only is he a bastard to the people he feels dissed him, he will also punish their children and their grandchildren. Read the Ten Commandments. Its really more like two commandments (which are total no brainers) one suggestion and seven cries for attention. Then again, he was created by man, so what can we expect?
You wanna piece of me, bitch?
R209 - God of the Bible is a product of religion, priests, pastors, preachers to keep the "flock" in check.
I believe for every drop of rain that falls, a flower grows, I believe that somewhere in the darkest night, a candle glows........
You blame God for things human do... and still want to have free will?
[quote]If God actually existed...he would have to be one sick, twisted motherfucker.
Why? Because he doesn't adhere to YOUR understanding of what's right and wrong?
So God should do your bidding? Did you escape from an insane asylum last night?
[quote]So God should do your bidding?
You're asking a person who doesn't believe God exists. You will never get a satisfactory answer.
I only want an honest answer, r215.
"I long for the day when christianity and judaism and islam all die out"
You are a racist Islamaphobe...your hate speech will not be tolerated.
[quote] only want an honest answer
Hows this for honest?
There is no God.
[quote]There is no God.
You can't prove that, r218.
R214/R216/R219 = Freeper
Keep believing in a "god" who lets good people get hurt and/or killed on a daily basis.
I'm absolutely convinced that there is a God. It's so fucking evident. I'm sorry that others don't see it.
I'm absolutely convinced there is no God just as I'm convinced there are no unicorns, no Zeus, no Allah, no Anubis. It's so fucking evident. I'm truly sorry that others don't see it.
R221, don't feel sorry for me that I don't share your delusion. By definition, you're clinically insane and a liar.
Thanks, r223, I have a blog, but occasionally I like to discuss and debate my views in other forums, as well.
So kindly fuck off.
Spoken like a true believer, R225.
R225 is liar.
DO you feel guilty when you step on an ant OP? If not, why should God feel guilty about stepping on you? Face it, if there is a God, people don't matter at all to him and it is a peculiar sort of scam to think they would.
God is a big fat cunt.
God? What a silly thought.
You can't give the world free will and then intervene to make things go the way you want all the time.
I didn't do any of that shit the Old Testament said I did.
Except the natural disasters.
Quit blaming me for garbage you humans do.
I'm a dyslexic, existentialist insomniac. I lie awake at night contemplating the existence of Dog.
I saw an old woman interviewed on TV who credited God for saving her from a huge tornado while at the same time many children were killed. God works in mysterious ways all right.
R232 Go fuck yourself!
People on this thread don't want to believe in God because they want to keep doing what they're doing with no consequences. I just don't mean sex.
Additionally, all major religions denounce homosexuality etc. so it's so much easier to deny the existence of God and berate people who believe than to do what is hard...which find peace within themselves and develop their own relationship with Him.
[quote]People on this thread don't want to believe in God
It's not a question of wanting to believe or not. It's a question of recognizing a palpable lie.
I don't believe in unicorns. Even if I WANTED to believe in unicorns it wouldn't make a difference. They still don't exist.
[quote]easier to deny the existence of God a
It's clearly easier for you to imagine that people who don't believe in SkyFriends have some ulterior motive.
R236, I'm sure there are a great number of atheist, agnostic, whatever heterosexuals. If people don't want to or cannot believe, let them.
You will also find that in addition to denouncing homosexuality, religions affirm and encourage a whole load of behaviors that conveniently change when they aren't very useful to adhere to.
I wish you the best R237 R238. I don't think you have any ulterior motives. Believe what you want.
PS. Skyfriends? I believe God is everywhere not just relegated to the sky or inside a church or temple.
If God doesn't rule this site, than who does?
Hit save post with out a message, and you get "message body mandatory."
That's an obvious reference to Jesus.
It is everywhere....in your head R240
Maybe the Deists were correct.
I totally agree R239. I am not a big fan or organized religion at all. But I believe in God.
A large number of church going people screw others over all week long - go to church Sunday and think everything is ok. I think it's crazy.
R242 - You'll see...we all will.
Well, if some god is essential to people's happiness than how come as an atheist I have a much better life than when I believed in these delusions. Seriously,since I realized this is bullshit I no longer have depression and other mental problems with guilt and self-hatred, I finally opened myself to other people and have friends and a great boyfriend. Also a nice job. Now I'm not saying it's some kind of ideal paradise, but one would think that my life is going to be shit when I turned away from "our only saviour". Yet, things couldn't be better for me and other nonbelieving friends of mine (unless they were shuned by their family).
I was once hungry and prayed to God for food and then I found some peanut butter in a jar that I thought I had finished. This in itself proves God's existence.
I think that's great for you, truly, R244.
Unhappy people are going to be unhappy, R246. Blaming anything or anyone outside of yourself for you condition is a waste of time. It's wonderful that your life has improved for you, but if you're an atheist now, you didn't really believe in a god to begin with. There's nothing wrong with that, everything doesn't have to work for everyone.
Some of the angry people in this thread could use some love, if not Jesus, maybe some good food.
I just read this whole thread, and boy, talk about hate toward "believers." It's the same type of viciousness directed at gay people by homophobes. Chilling.
I've been atheist, agnostic, and a "believer" at different times in my life. And although I sure don't want religion in politics, after reading this thread, I sure don't want atheists in it either.
And, I'm still not sure what it's going to be like when I'm DYING. I figure if nothing comes after I die, then so be it. If there is a better world, so much the better. Being dead is a non issue for me. It's the horror--the process of dying...with death 60 seconds away that most terrifies me. And neither religion OR science can save me from that. Or you either for that matter.
But some of the comments on this thread, by "non believers" border on religious. Science and logic and technology can become their own religion, and can become just as bloodthirsty, just as evil, just as faultless as those who believe in it. And, the way some believers on this thread were attacked smacks of witch hunt tactics used in 1600's Massachusetts by "good Christian people."
Religion doesn't have to be about a deity or the afterlife. It can be about anything that takes over your thinking.
he does exist, just wait and see on your last day.
I prayed that the Lord would buy me a night on the town. He didn't so I said Fuck You Mr Jesus.
R250=tiresome asshole who has to be "different."
Can't be a common sense atheist if it is associated with rude people. Well, smell you, Miss Ex Gay Luke Evans, you're about as "different" as RC Cola is from Coke. Just another narcissist whose oxygen intake is not justified by any moral value.
[quote]It's the same type of viciousness directed at gay people by homophobes
Hugest eyeroll evah. Show me the huge groups of gay people voting against rights for believers. Show me the gay people standing in the pulpits every Sunday shrieking about how believers are destroying society. Show me the political party that makes hay out of attacking believers again and again and promising adherents that they'll deliver on keeping Christians second class citizens.
A big giant fuck you for that ludicrous false equivalency. Too much foxnews KKKristians-are -victims propaganda seeped into your brain, deae.
Stick a fork in this one's ass and turn em over. He's done.
One night a man had a dream. He dreamed he was walking along the beach with the Lord.
Across the sky flashed scenes from his life.
For each scene, he noticed two sets of footprints in the sand: one belonging to him, and the other to the Lord.
When the last scene of his life flashed before him, he looked back at the footprints in the sand.
He noticed that many times along the path of his life there was only one set of footprints.
He also noticed that it happened at the very lowest and saddest times in his life.
This really bothered him and he spoke to the Lord about it.
"Lord, You said that once I decided to follow You, You'd walk with me all the way.
But I have noticed that during the most troublesome times in my life, there is only one set of footprints.
I don't understand why when I needed You most
You would leave me."
The Lord replied, "My son, My precious child,
I love you and would never leave you.
During your times of trial and suffering, when you see only one set of footprints, it was then that I called a strong friend because I couldn't carry your fat ass. Cripes, I'm not Hercules.
And you pray fat.
I have something to add to R255.
The Lord replied after being asked about the never leaving part.
"My son. My precious child. I love you and would never leave you.
"Ah...during your times of trial and suffering...um...ah. let's see. OH! YES! Those footprints you see! Ah...well, they were mine!
"Yes! Yes! Mine! They were...mine!
"And that, my son, is my story and I am sticking to it!"
Look, who knows for sure. But we'll all find out -- or not -- someday when we're no longer here.
I just hope I get laid lots of times before the end.
I read some of these post by believers and it becomes quite clear as to why this nation is headed in a downward spiral.
r220 [quote]Keep believing in a "god" who lets good people get hurt and/or killed on a daily basis.
Sulking because God doesn't do your bidding??
No, r258. Pointing out the obvious. Tales of skyfriends are obvious and palpable lies.
If there is a god, he is evil. If a PERSON had the power to stop the suffering of the holocaust in an instant, but decided not to, you'd say that person was an evil psychopath. Yet you worship an imaginary god who did the same.
[quote]If there is a god, he is evil.
You can't know that. You don't get to decide that.
I agree R257, but look at it in a different way. The world has more atheists now than ever and I think with the progress of science and technology the number will hopefully continue to grow, at least I think that this is the tendency, so it's not too late to save this world from the delusions and I'm pretty sure there won't be a return of the middle ages ahead of us. The position of churches is decreasing every day and many young people are intelligent enough to treat fairy tailes and mythologies for what they are: fiction.
R219 No one is going to say God doesn't exist unless someone first claims God does exist. Thereby, it is up the the person making the original claim to provide proof. Its like if someone accuses you of a crime, its not up to you to prove you're innocent, its up to them to prove you're guilty. See. That's how it works, that's how its always worked. Get used to it.
I do "know" it in the same sense I know there is a table in the room and not in the garage. To require absolute knowledge is not possible, but it is also not possible in the case of the table in the room and not the garage. After all, my sense could be deceiving me. You freight the word "know" with too high a standard of proof in the God case but too low a standard in most other cases, like politics.
"You don't get to decide that."
Isn't this the real truth of religion, every place and everywhere, a desire to control other people and take away their free agency?
R261 is right. The number of Americans who identify themselves as religious is dropping. Church attendance is down. Those who do attend are increasingly older.
[quote]In many cases, congregations are seeing not only fewer people in their pews but older ones. At least one-third of members in more than half of mainline Protestant congregations are 65 or older.
PREACH IT R262. The burden of proof lies on the person who is making the claim, not the one denying it. Basic logic - problem for many believers
R260 According to the Bible, God kills countless innocent children in order to prove a point to a handful of adults.
That is evil.
r266 [quote]That is evil.
You don't get to decide what is evil and what's not. Do you think you're God or something? Moron.
Why does God hate amputees? He can miraculously "cure" the blind, the deaf, the cancer riddled but he can't make a leg regenerate? What's up with that?
"Believers" are simply people who either lack critical thinking skills or live in constant fear because they can't cope with the realities of their place in the universe. They insist "there has to be something more" or "the thought of being alone is terrifying" or "there is too many coincidences for there not to be a higher power." Most believers are incredibly egotistical both about themselves and about humanity. Because they can't cope with reality, they want everyone to join in their collective fantasy world to reassure themselves that their lies have merit and we are special. The human brain wants to rationalize everything. Religion is the answer to that biological need.
You are the moron R267. It's always been human who decided what is good and what is evil, no one else. And yes most people do have the sense of morality to know that killing innocent children is wrong. If you don't agree with it you should be locked up.
R267 You're wrong. I do get to decide what is evil. And killing innocent people is evil. In fact, pretty much everyone on the planet has decided killing innocent people is evil. Everyone knows this but you and your fellow sociopaths.
He's like a Christian Grey who manages to turn on both men and women. It proves the fact that most people like being kept on a leash and told what to do.
r271 God is not a human being.
r268 [quote]but he can't make a leg regenerate?
How do you know that he can't? Did he tell you that he can't? Do you hear the voice of God in your head?
r270 = Idiot.
[quote]It's always been human who decided what is good and what is evil, no one else.
God can also decide what's good and what's evil.
[quote]God is not a human being.
I never said he was. Your ability to engage in logic are as piss poor as your reading comprehension skills.
R273, then stop referring to "god" as him. Christians and other deluded fools are the ones who anthropomorphize their mythical "creator.".
What's funny about modern day "believers" is that they are no different than the idiots who worshipped the Greek gods. They share in the ridicule of that religion while oblivious that their beliefs are no different.
What does that have to do with anything R273? You said that I as a human can't decide what is wrong and it's bullshit because it's always been ONLY people who decided that. god is a fictional character just like Alladyn, Snow White or Zeus and everything he decides (mostly bad things) is what primitive people who wrote this book 2000 years ago decided. End of the story.
r276 You said "killing innocent people is evil." God doesn't care what you think is good and evil. You can't control God. You think God doesn't exist because he doesn't do your bidding.
R275 = person with a mind of a child believing in fiction. god is a fictional deity, not exisiting. Sure, I don't know that for a certainity but I also don't know if Hera or Set don't exist, yet I don't give them benefit of the doubt, because if we were to wonder about the existence of every fictional character we would go crazy. The most logical choice is not to believe, unless there is evidence, and there is NO evidence for your god.
r274 if he can why doesn't he? there are plenty of war/accident/land mine victims who would love a miracle. or does he only regenerate the limbs of people who promise to never make the regeneration public?
No R279 we don't believe because there is no evidence for it's existence, Why don't you believe in Allah, where there is as much evidence as for your god. Read my post at R246 and you'll see it has nothing to do with my bidding, cause if that were true, it would mean it started to do my bidding when I stopped believing in it, which is nonsense.
r281 [quote]if he can why doesn't he?
I can't know. I've never spoken with God. I'm just a human being. He's a God. It's not possible for humans to speak with God. (You know, because he's a god and all.)
R281 just ignore this troll. All he will say to that is "You can't controle god, if he doesn't help some suffering people, there must be some divine reason for it" and other bullshit like that
[quote]What's funny about modern day "believers" is that they are no different than the idiots who worshipped the Greek gods.
Thats because in order to make Christianity more appealing to ancient Romans*, early Christians incorporated their mythology and iconography. For example, we know according to the Bible, Jesus was not born in December. However, the Romans already had a pagan festival in December, so the early Christians co-oped that holiday and made it their own. The Romans would also represent Apollo in sculpture as a young man carrying a lamb on his shoulders. Christians adopted this image to represent Christ and to this day you sometimes see this figure in nativity scenes.
*The Romans gods and the Greek gods are pretty much interchangeable, hence in an indirect way, you are correct in that it is no different than how the Greeks operated.
r282 [quote]we don't believe because there is no evidence for it's existence,
No evidence according to YOU.
Then ahat evidence do uou have for it's existence apart from your wishful thinking R283?
[quote] You think God doesn't exist because he doesn't do your bidding.
Wrong again. God does not exist because the concept as presented is completely illogical and irrational. In other words: it doesn't make sense. And if it doesn't make sense, then its probably not true.
r287 My imagination.
r288 [quote]if it doesn't make sense, then its probably not true.
Oh I see, only "PROBABLY not true." So not 100% false.
R289 Sometimes when driving I like to imagine I am really piloting a fighter jet. So I guess its really not a Santa Fe I am driving, its really an F-16. It doesn't have wings, it uses regular gas and I have never gotten over 80mph, but if I say its an F-16, then it must be so. Right?
R290 if thats then best you got, then I feel really bad for you.
No need to, r293. I've said nothing wrong.
[quote] I've said nothing wrong.
I never said you did.
Once again, reading comprehension. Learn it, love it, live it.
[quote]I never said you did.
[quote] Marge, you're my wife and I love you very much. But you're living in a world of make-believe. With flowers and bells and leprechauns, and magic frogs with funny little hats.
Personally, I've always thought that many Christians are uncomfortable with, "I don't know" which is why God plays such a huge role in their lives. Questions like, "What happens when we die?" need to be answered.
I don't care what people believe - just keep it to yourself.
[quote]Questions like, "What happens when we die?" need to be answered.
To be fair, it's not just Christians who ask that. Pretty much every culture on the planet since the beginning of time had some mythology for that question.
Of course, they had no OTHER explanation for the origin of life, the nature of the universe,and so on r299, so they made up myths. THEIR ignorance and belief in ludicrous supernatural stories can therefore be excused. Modern people who persist in this nonsense are just pathetic.