- And, umm, for the record, Not Marc, I wasn't a PA on the show. Think again, darling.
- This is humiliating for Spielberg!. Has any mogul ever had a flop as painful as this?
- I wouldn't blame him, though, R2, I'd blame Josh Safran, the showrunner.
- That's BAD :( I hope NBC will not stop Airing remaining episodes. I quite liked last two !
- I know you're not a PA, Bellhop. That story was meant to illustrate a truth about people in your position. I've seen many of them over the years and it doesn't take long to tell, based on their attitude, who is on the up escalator and who is on the down. I'm not interested in figuring out who on the crew you were, to be candid, but I can think of a couple of people you remind me of, male and female. But no matter. I'm glad you found another job and hope you don't get in your own way. You have very strong emotions about things on set that I can tell you are based partly on ignorance, partly on false information, and partly on the emotions we all feel about work when we are just one part of a larger project no one completely controls.
- Bellhop do you do someone's makeup?
- Is there any fear that Smash will be pulled from the schedule after ratings this low?
- They've released Kat and Megan's cover of Sinatra's 'That's Life' (which they'll sing next ep) to iTunes already, and I'm totally in love with it. Both girls sound AMAZINGGGGGGGG - seriously one of the best songs of the entire series, imo. Whilst I'm really enjoying this s2 on the whole, it does make me sad we've had to wait until episode 12 for some proper Karen and Ivy interaction. They've got great chemistry I think and they sound so good together.
- Bellhop=Birdie Not Marc=Addison DeWitt
- God help me, but I actually liked Saturday's episode. I really liked it.
- And Smash lost to...the Oprah Winfrey Network.
Thanks, R9. I'll take being compared to Birdie over Addison DeWitt any day-she called it as she saw it and didn't take any shit from others.
- Glad you got it. I meant it as a compliment, Bellhop:)
- What amazes me is that there were like 10 million viewers last year or some such thing. To lose 9 million viewers is amazing and yet still nobody balmes anyone except Thersea (when the show did ok int he numbers. Not great by any means but not what they are now)
I think they are all to blame for this mess. And yet they think they created high art and it was the audience's fault for "not getting it"
We got it. They, the creators, didn't.
- Watching the latest episode I thought "Megan should have those moles near her left shoulder sliced off." Next thing I know the moles were mentioned in a review Julia read. If she's afraid of the knife, there's always heavy make-up.
- Let me tell you about Deb Messing...
- Should they have gone with the plot of the novel SMASH by Garson Kanin and put all the focus on one show? Instead of the awful Jeremy "slimeball" Jordan subplot?
The show isn't good, but frankly it is nowhere near bad enough to explain the basement-dwellar ratings. There are far worse shows that do better; for that matter, there are far worse shows that probably none of us have heard of that do better.
I think the primary issue is that it is a niche show that tried to force itself on a broad audience. I really think it would have worked much better on cable.
I'm not really defending Smash. I could go on all day about the ridiculous plot points, sloppy writing, and poor Kat McPhee's "acting"; but still, the piling-on is getting ridiculous. I think there are lots of reasons this show didn't work that go beyond the actual quality of the show.
- Why did they insert that snide "IVY" aside in the buyable That's Life? I find it inappropriate for Karen to make that moment about her and her little narcissism, and super rude that the show would stick the fans with another Karen Is Right! moment, especially since... I don't think Ivy Stepped On Karen is a valid interpretation for the arc. Especially as Karen won and letting her sing at the party feels like Ivy is being a bigger person.
Also, dear insiders: I find your infighting delightful, but I don't work on the show and I don't even particularly love the theatre. I'm just a random person who likes TV, and I'm sorry but Bellhop is the only "quasi-official" voice who mirrors my feelings, so I like him/her. Everyone else is trying to tell me I'm not allowed to love Ivy, or wonder why she has so little screentime and very few songs. Or why I need to like Karen and respect Kat - I Just Don't Care. I'm shafted at every turn, as a viewer, and I know that from watching the show, pretending I'm not is just another way the production is trying to laugh at me.
So Not Marc and others: could YOU please just give me a hint regarding Ivy, possibly Ivy/Derek, and if all of that is going to be just Karen's leftovers?
- I love Megan Hilty! She's Broadway. Katherine McPhee is a pop princess.
- I don't know, R17. The show started out with really great ratings, and sustained them somewhat for the first couple of episodes. They had the ball, they just dropped it.
It's my personal belief that the tragic flaw was centering a show around an uncharismatic lead like Katherine McPhee.
- It's not the failure that it is because of its quality (or lack thereof). It's a failure because no one is actually interested in the making of a Broadway show. The days of America's fascination with theatre probably died out in the '70s.
GLEE at least has the smarts to show its characters in a satiric light.
- Thesw threads on SMASH are more entertaining than the show
- [quote]Also, dear insiders: I find your infighting delightful, but I don't work on the show and I don't even particularly love the theatre. I'm just a random person who likes TV, and I'm sorry but Bellhop is the only "quasi-official" voice who mirrors my feelings, so I like him/her. Everyone else is trying to tell me I'm not allowed to love Ivy, or wonder why she has so little screentime and very few songs.
Bellhop has opinions about these things. I know the answer to these things, but can't tell you them. Perhaps it's frustrating. But there are intimacies involved here, the dignities of people's careers, the necessity of discretion, and so on. There was an article somewhere online about the first season that also applies in large part to what happened in the second season. I forget where, but if you can dig it up, give it a read.
One thing I can say is, I believe the creative team really liked the character of Ivy and the actress Megan Hilty and did what they could this season to treat her as a distinct character with her own setbacks and victories, rather than just serve as a bad-luck foil to Karen.
- Not Marc or Bellhop, did the creators realize that it is kinda hard to root for someone who faces no real obstacles, that everyone adores for no real reason, and who wins everytime despite the competition being better?
If there isn't a drinking game for how many times Karen is absurdly over-praised, there should be........
In the season finale, will Karen's voice
1)End world hunger?
2)Turn ponies into unicorns?
3)Cause Broadway to rename itself "KarenIsAwesome!Way!"
4) All of the above (drink up)
- [quote]One thing I can say is, I believe the creative team really liked the character of Ivy and the actress Megan Hilty and did what they could this season to treat her as a distinct character with her own setbacks and victories, rather than just serve as a bad-luck foil to Karen.
That's well and fine, Not Marc. but they failed. I think Hilty got the shorter stick on the second season.
- Also, like it or not, Kat got bad notices. Was there an effort to "correct" this, liek maybe have a sit down with Kat as to what she is doing wrong, or was the creative team satisfied with her performance? Why was Hilty treated like a stepsister when she was getting better reviews and reception? Is Kat's husband connected to NBC/Universal of Josh Safran?
- Not Marc - I may have been imprecise, but it's not so much mere frustration: I'm not a feminist but this show has me throwing around words like "misogynist" every time I talk about it. It's literally offensive to me as a person, the messages they're sending, and that's on top of insulting me as a reasonably thoughtful tv viewer - despite claiming they want me (for the record I adored The West Wing from the start.)
I don't care what went on behind the scenes, but there's no brownie points for "they like Ivy!" She was on the posters and set up as a second lead, and we got 6 episode of Karen In Bombshell, Karen in Hit List! followed by 4 of Karen In Hit List (and Ivy is Marilyn) and only now is there reasonable parity, if still no Ivy-songs.
This isn't something you can pat me on the head over, it's something I feel I reasonably need the production to address. Maybe I just get screwed creatively, maybe Ivy is just being tortured again as Derek uses her as a safe fallback once Karen drops him (until she changes her mind briefly while broken up with Jimmy), but NBC is a big enough entity that it does need to take responsibility for this sociological clusterfvck..
- [quote]Not Marc or Bellhop, did the creators realize that it is kinda hard to root for someone who faces no real obstacles, that everyone adores for no real reason, and who wins everytime despite the competition being better?
When I look at Karen this year, I see a young woman who made a difficult choice to follow her heart, is falling for the wrong guy, is attracted to him despite all the red flags, is contending (for the first time ever?) with a co-star stealing the spotlight -- it's not perfect, but, to me, it smacks of an attempt to ground her and put her in a world with real struggle. I think, as conceived in the pilot, Karen would have been an interesting outsider character -- the charmed girl who has it easy and frustrates the fortunes of Ivy. Making the character who has it easy also the center of the show created some challenges.
As far as other things go, in a television show, a lot of different people have input into those things.
[quote]That's well and fine, Not Marc. but they failed. I think Hilty got the shorter stick on the second season.
She got to be in her own show, she got to sing the fantastic Moving The Line song, she got to be Marilyn (big one, no?), she got to spark again with Derek, she got to have some serious mother / daughter drama... that's a lot for a show with, what, nine leads? And there's more to come. I don't think Ivy fans will be disappointed with what remains in the season, but, I wouldn't think they'd be disappointed with what has already aired, so I may be off-base here. I can think of a beautifully-shot cover, and a Shaiman / Wittman original, that she will be singing.
- Well, she only got Marilyn after Kat quit, and Kat gets more numbers per episode than Hilty, so no I still do not think Hilty got treated fairly, considering everyone was singling her out the first season.
I really hope it does get better for her, because I don't think I am alone in this disappointment. I just feel that as vocal fans of the show, we got ignored. And I am not even a Kat hater, to be honest.
- Why they tried to put Ivy and Derek back is beyond me. There was a change in the plot ? Because in the first half of the season, it looked like Karen and Derek would have sex... eventually. Right now, I'm not so sure.
( And someone's really going to die? )
- Not Marc, thanks for the answer about Karen being hard to root for because she has it so easy.
As an audience member, I can't relate to her story, even in the second season. It seems so unrealistic. You just know Karen is going to be richly rewarded for walking away from Bombshell because she's Karen and Karen always wins (for no reason). Why couldn't she be fired and have to battle back?
Karen doesn't inspire me. She makes me want to give up. Who can relate to being so talented at their profession everyone stops and stares and your choices/mistakes always have a huge positive payout?
I like both actresses, but it makes even crazier because Ivy seems more talented.
Thank you. I enjoyed a lot about the show.
- When did shows become democracies?
If you don't like it, you don't watch it.
No show ever promised you a say and if you think because there's message boards out there where you can spout, ok, but don't imagine the network is hanging on your every word.
That post at R27 is fangurl crazytown.
- So let's talk about the two nudes from behind. Ivy looked great, Tom - yikes, not so much (love handles for days).
- [quote]If you don't like it, you don't watch it.
And the people have spoken, indeed. All 9 million fans who stopped tuning in.
- Not Marc - I don't know how to quote here, sorry, but:
Hilty got Moving the Line, and indeed it was amazing. McPhee got Public Relations and Cut Print, both fully staged numbers, and both for Bombshell - in fact, she got 2/3 of the only new Marilyn numbers, and the sickening display of the JFK song. She was even Tom's head-Marilyn, which by narrative right ought to have been Ivy, who has always been hinted to be his muse. Even though McPhee also gets the entirety of Hit List. What sense does this make? They literally shoveled all Marilyn's new songs into the first bit of the season just so McPhee could do them.
Ivy gets to be Marilyn, but I don't really get to watch Ivy be Marilyn. I'm watching Karen... learn that you aren't always the sole female character in a show? so this would be called nominal win, not to mention the show makes Hit List out to be a bigger, better thing, coming from literally the gutter under Karen's steam to loft her to even greater fame because she "took a risk she is passionate!" Marilyn isn't a win for Ivy if Karen decides to throw it away because she isn't being pampered, which is the narrative conclusion based on her behavior last season. It's also rude since nothing ever showed that Karen had any particular passion for Marilyn or Bombshell, she just wants the spotlight. Thus she wasn't giving anything up but a free ride, and it never felt like a risk with Derek dogging her steps.
Meanwhile Liasons was a fun diversion in which Ivy got a whole half a song!, and got to be funny. Which was nice since the story arc was poorly thought out and made no sense, not to mention the opening of Liasons became one big battle over Who Gets Karen and What Will Karen Pick? Without one "good job" from Derek or Leigh, no fanboy from Kyle...
And yes, after Derek spent his entire relationship with Ivy drooling after Karen personally and professionally, and threw Ivy over, Ivy takes him back after he runs to her following... Karen rejecting him. How is this a win? Ivy gets Karen's leftovers, again, still looks like at best a codependent relationship because she puts out. I get it, I like Ivy so I spin logic for this being a solid arc, but all those Karen fans running around literally bashing Ivy-as-character and me-as-fan beg differently for the show's efficacy.
I am gratified to know Ivy gets two more songs, and that the cover (won't be?) another Bittersweet Symphony, which was amazing but few realized she sang it. And I'm sure it looks differently from your side, but I've been conversing for over a year with groups of film students and professional writers, actors, scholars, pop culture fanatics, singers and brilliant fangirls, and I'm sorry, but no.
I've gone nutty and none of this is even a rigorous argument so I'm overdone, but there are books' worth of academic-level analysis out there from a dozen disciplines, we've put in the work and come up with "we've been screwed" as fans and "this is a really badly done show" as viewers. It is frustrating that we don't know why the "fix" looks like this, but it's also true that Smash isn't something pure which is "gifted" to us, like ironically Bombshell and Hit List are showing us the hard work, talent and luck behind fame. It's not how media works, not within society and especially not in this age, and if the production team didn't want to listen, that's fine, but patronizing us is rude and leaves a nasty taste in my mouth.
- [quote]You just know Karen is going to be richly rewarded for walking away from Bombshell because she's Karen and Karen always wins (for no reason).
OK, let's dissect this little Ivyfanatic fiction.
In season 1:
- the character gets drawn into the audition process during a cattle call and manages to impress.
- Ivy fucks the director, Karen doesn't
- the Karen character gets a part - in the chorus
- the chorus treats her poorly until she calls them out on it
- Ivy plays the star and gets her chorus role limited
- Ivy messes up during the workshop
- the producers decide they need a star and neither Ivy nor Karen get the part
- At some point Ivy loses it and shows up on stage pissed out of her tree, falling down drunk in front of the audience, her professionalism making it difficult for her to return to the chorus now she's jobless
- Derek selects Karen as selected as understudy
- When the star leaves the cast, Derek selects Karen as Marilyn, while the producer, the writing team, and some of the company indiscreetly question her ability to carry it off
- Ivy, furious at not being selected, takes the mature decision to fuck Karen's boyfriend - purposely
- to ensure Karen's focus on opening night, Ivy tells Karen she fucked her boyfriend
- Karen breaks up with her boyfriend, because he is a jerk who topped it off by fucking Ivy
This is always 'winning' in Ivyland? Pick a favorite but for God's sake at least see things factually. The Karen character went through quite a lot of adversity in season one. She was not always winning.
And yes, the irrational worship of Ivy fanatics does drive me grumpy bonkers. But fucking hell... they're so obnoxious about it.
(Though for what it's worth, McPhee has seemed quite sleepy the last several episodes.)
- [quote]I know that from watching the show, pretending I'm not is just another way the production is trying to laugh at me.
Yes, the production is trying to laugh at you.
The cast, the crew, the producers are all trying to laugh at you. Personally. Directly. On purpose. After a meeting. All Season long. Even still.
Cuckoo clocks, that one.
Seriously, tell a shrink that and get back to us with the reaction.
- so, whoever replaced Michael Scott/Will Chase as Dimaggio is suspiciously nowhere to be found amongst the Bway Bombshell cast
- Just like the mother role came barrelling out of nowhere.
- If the numbers are tanking that badly are we guaranteed they will still see the season through? Might they at least start doubling up episodes to get it over with faster?
And when does Safran do his 'forgive me' interview? Or do we get a bunch of unnamed sources doing it for him?
SOMEONE MUST PAY FOR FUCKING THIS UP!
Maybe Fatty Playwright will do a vindication interview and spill all.
I want to know how who got it so wrong got it so wrong.
- I love when people from the Smash creative team try to rationalize their decisions as the correct one when NINE MILLION PEOPLE have told them otherwise.
- #35 - You're just going to have to accept that NBC/Spielberg/TPTB wanted McPhee to be front and center. Also, there's no way Hilty could have pulled off Public Relations the way McPhee did. Like someone mentioned before, Megan can't dance.
- The ratings are getting too embarrassing even for a Saturday burnoff. I'm guessing it will be pulled in about two weeks if they go even lower. (A shame since last week's episode was probably Smash's best hour to date).
I hope they at least put the remaining episodes on NBC.com or iTunes.
- If she's not a dancer, I doubt Hilty could have carried off Wolf in Season 1 either.
- Wouldn't that be a laugh - they air it at a huge loss but still want to make .99 a download selling it.
- Didn't Hilty dance in the baseball number? Or on stage at Encores in Gentlemen Prefer blondes?
- Exactly. Hilty wouldn't have been able to pull off that Wolf number in the finale. Her inability to dance may be part of the reason why McPhee gets more fully staged numbers. Hilty got to sing Wolf, but she barely moved in her performance.
- I agree, Hilty netted the show its only remote-ballpark critical Emmy talk last season, though I guess they thought it didn’t matter with the Downton juggernaut, and after doing yeomanlike work in the service of the production, deserved better than to be written into some kind of guest star for the first half of this season. (Though the fact that Not Marc implies it could have been worse for Ivy this season has me agog at the possibilities.)
R31, right you are, the gross (pun fully intended) narrative of "Karen always fails upward", makes me feel more like I'm watching The Peter Principle in action, as opposed to "the Born Queen of Broadway", which is somehow what some numskull thought it conveyed.
- Though, of course, Thurman won the Emmy, I'm not discounting that, just that no one cares about guest star Emmy awards.
- "Hilty netted the show its only remote-ballpark critical Emmy talk last season"
You can't be serious with this
- I think the pro-Karen argument would work better if the show wasn't failing miserably, and failing increasingly even as Karen is pushed more and more front and center.
Meanwhile cranky people like the last two episodes where, forget Ivy/Karen, the show is treated like an ensemble show rather than a one-woman orgasm.
I'm also sorry that so few have the requisite high school English background to understand the issues most critics and a number of fans are rehearsing. Otherwise we might be able to converse.
- That Megan Hilty didn't win an Emmy is definitely a human rights violation. Luckily she's getting a Kennedy Center Honours just for being the victim of bad writing. And a Nobel Prize because Katherine McPhee exists.
- Not Marc, I'm interested in hearing what your thoughts on Kat and Megan. How were they on set? Any interesting tidbits you can share about them?
- I'd love to rehearse the issues. How does one go about it?
- Yes, Hilty handled choreography well enough in National Pastime. Hilty may be, by her own admission, not the most proficient dancer in the world, but she has a great physicality and "moves well" as they say.
I enjoyed Hilty's committed performance of Wolf far more than McPhee's, which (if I recall) consisted mainly of the signature "let's throw Marilyn around like a bag of bricks" choreography.
In any event, I have long been resigned to Karen remaining the front-and-center of the series, irrespective of merit. But I am certainly heartened by Not Marc's statement that Ivy fans have stuff to look forward to in the remaining episodes.
- McPhee amazed me in Wolf. One of my favourite numbers. She so looked like Marilyn, she was having fun. One of my all time favorite SMASH numbers. Hilty played Ivy's sulking really well in that scene, glowering from the wings.
- But then that's all Ivy really does is sulk or crack up. She gets the occasional manic high but then she's twice as grating.
- The terrible writing and awful plots are what killed Smash in s1. S2 never stood a chance
- R50, thoroughly serious. Huston is there and Messing was in best drama, but in the situations where the critics also wrote columns, they chose and addressed that the latter two were put up for their chances via sentimentality/body of work.
- I didn't think the plots were so bad in Season One, there were just too many of them. Same problem in Season Two, with the addition of a raft of pointless characters and some unlikable ones. I mean, what was the point of Jennifer Hudson's arc?
- R60 is right. Too many plots spoiled the show.
- Hopefully in the opening night episode Ivy gets her head stuck in her bucket of KFC and Bernadette's character seizes the day!
- Dear Lord, how crazed are some of you?
Fact #1 - Smash was never a hit. Last year, it had The Voice as a lead in and even with that, the show only got so-so ratings. Without The Voice, the ratings plummeted. Let's not pretend the same thing wouldn't have happened last year if the show had a different lead in.
Fact #2 - The role of underdog Karen was tremendously popular with the general audience last year. That's an undeniable fact. So it's no surprise that this season Karen gets a primary storyline this season.
Fact #3 - Ivy was trashed as a character last season so the producers decided to rehab her so the general audience could root for her again. This isn't as diss on Megan. It's the truth of how Safran and the writers approached the character. They wanted the audience to fall in love with her as they did. So they picked her back up, gave her plenty of obstacles (with talented guest stars) and eventually gave her the prized Marilyn role. You want Ivy to be treated as though she's amazing? She will be. Of course, the professional Ivy-fan-victims here will be entirely too victimized to acknowledge it.
I could go on but it's ridiculous to argue with people throwing tantrums over a show which is essentially over. The producers wanted folks to love it. They wanted the fans of Ivy and Karen to be happy. Safran talked to Megan and Kat about how they saw their characters and incorporated some of that into the show. The execution may not have worked but the intentions were absolutely sincere. If you're offended, you've lost touch with what's truly important in life.
- [quote]Of course, the professional Ivy-fan-victims here will be entirely too victimized to acknowledge it.
True that, because it's not enough that Ivy should triumph but they seem unable to cope with anything other than the end of Karen.
- I agree McPhee has her limits as an actress, though I preferred the Karen character over the Ivy character in Season One. In Season Two the writing was so bad I just watched to see it through. What fascinates me now is the subtext to the Karen fans/Ivy fans thing. It's like an insight into the minds of the fan fic no hopers.
- Omg Not Marc you're actually listening to these Ivy STANS and taking their opinion seriosly? They have such a scewed vision of how Karen and ivy are portrayed and in no way represent what the general public viewer thinks. I mean, let's not forget here that in s1 Ivy was Marilyn for most of the season, and Karen was relagated to some terrible side plots that went nowhere.
And in s2 at the beginning, OF COURSE Karen would sing a few songs as Marilyn, why the heck wouldn't she? At the end of s1 she was cast as Marilyn so why wouldn't she?!! Ivy is now Marilyn and the Ivy stans ARE STILL BITCHING, jeez.
And it's completely pointless now arguing about s2 Karen v Ivy stuff when their plot arcs are so far apart, and they've barely shared any scenes together. And Ivy has had plenty screentime recently, moreso than Karen.
- Saint Karen the Perfect Princess of Princessdom
- Does anyone else cringe when they see Katherine McPhee referred to as "Kat"?
- Oh joy, the Ivy fanatics have found this thread!
- No. 63, thank you for that behind-the-scenes insight. Very interesting.
Just to clarify, there are some avowed Ivy fans like myself who have recognized (and appreciated) the effort to rehab the character after last season's mess. Although I felt Ivy got a bit sidelined after the season 2 premiere, I have been far more satisfied with her arc and screen time since she regained the prized Marilyn role. The last couple episodes have been particularly strong on that front.
So I am cautiously hopeful that the rest of the season will do well by the character.
- R67 - No.
- I'm fairly sure the Ivy fans who seem lunatic are either twelve years old or have the emotional maturity of a twelve year old.
What they'll do once Titanic slips beneath the water for good, I wonder.
- [quote]Not Marc, I'm interested in hearing what your thoughts on Kat and Megan. How were they on set? Any interesting tidbits you can share about them?
Set is very boring. It's not a place full of interesting interactions and drama. It's a place you work for 13-15 hours, either on a stage separated from sunlight, or in the sweltering New York city summer, or (for most of shooting) the bitter winter. When the cast are not shooting, they are either in their dressing rooms, in hair and makeup, or sitting on another part of the set in their chairs together making chit chat. It's very boring and professional. Nothing to report, my apologies. (I am leaving something big out but it had nothing to do with Kat or Megan.)
I agree with R63.
- And yet, dear readers, the final musical number in the series will be performed by Karen and Ivy together on a stage. And it's wonderful. I only hope NBC doesn't yank the show altogether and replace it with reruns of The Voice and so you'll have to wait for the DVD. That would be a shame.
- Am I missing something? Ivy probably got more screentime last season than Karen, and at least she got to be Marilyn for most of the season and sing most of the Bombshell songs, other than Karen who got given terrible side plots because the writers were too incompetent to write a decent storyline for her.
And this season, Karen's doing Hit List stuff, Ivy's doing Liaisons and Bombshell stuff. Why do we even need to put the 2 against each other anymore. These bizarre ivy obsessives seem well OBSESSED with this notion that the showmakers are somehow trying to screw over Megan or something. it's frankly ridiculous.
- NBC will air the remainder of the season on Saturday nights as planned. This concern should be put to rest.
- The last number is very nice, I hope the theater purists can see the good in it. It's not exactly realistic.
- You're sure Not Marc? I wanna see what happens!
Then again, I'm sure it's just one more evil plot by NBC to pump up Karen and deny Ivy her rightful airtime! (I kid, I kid... not one of those!)
- Who else is curious to see how the failure of the show will play out for all those involved? I think it's pretty much killed McPhee, Safran, and Rebeck's careers. I think Megan Hilty will continue to get work on Broadway, and I'm sure Debra Messing will go back to sitcoms.
Will it affect Robert Greenblatt's position at NBC?
- The problem with SMASH is that very few Americans feel ANY SORT of connection to live theatre. It doesn't matter if the show was amazing or not, most Americans see 1-2 shows in their life while visiting NYC as a tourist and do not relate. GLEE was about high school drama nerds, much more relatable.
That said, the second season has been an improvement. I fully believe that if Season 2 was Season 1 that the show wouldn't be cancelled. NBC stupidly drove up the hype for this show (to unattainable in 2013 levels) and when the show wasn't great people forgot about it.
And why is it so shocking that a Spieberg-backed show flopped? Has he ever had any sort of success on TV.
The whole thing's sad, because it could have been a very big show. It's also sad for all the musical theatre queens clinging to the life boat, but whatever the show sucks.
- R63 "the professional Ivy-fan-victims here will be entirely too victimized to acknowledge it."
Karen and McPhee are still prominent in s2 because well, the general viewer liked Karen and McPhee. It's not rocket science. You think the showmakers don't do their pre-season research?!
This idea that somehow Smash fans the world over are throwing their arms up in disgust because their precious Ivy is being thrown to the wolves by the showmakers is frankly a joke and laughable.
- "And why is it so shocking that a Spieberg-backed show flopped? Has he ever had any sort of success on TV."
Well, yeah, ER. But his track record recently hasn't been great. There was Terra Nova (?) and that ABC show about a river from the Paranormal Activity folks.
- Not Marc, did Shaiman and Wittman produce Megan and Kat's cover of That's Life, because they both sound unbelievable on it?!
The Megan Kat Ivy Karen bitching makes me laugh because let's be honest here, the average viewer does care one bit about all the stuff people are bitching about here. They watch for the drama and songs, the end! And That's Life is a good example of 2 very talented singers singing the crap out of a song.
That's what the people want to see.
- Rebeck continues writing successful plays.
McPhee is still a draw and that will be worth something for some time. But if she wants to make it on her own, I don't think she can sustain wooden performances forever. She'll need to up her game if she loses Speilberg's patronage.
Agree Hilty will do well - even better perhaps - on Broadway and cross over occasionally into TV.
Cousin Deb will eventually do a Will & Grace reunion.
Borle's back to Broadway.
Davenport will go the English actor route... dabbling in everything and probably have a good, long, sustained, low key career. Although I wouldn't be surprised to see him playing a Derekesque character on his own series next fall or at least as a mid season replacement... SMASH's fucked up shooting schedule made pilot season tricky, I'd guess.
Greenblatt has so many difficulties, SMASH is just one of them.
BOMBSHELL will go to Broadway in the next two years.
If anybody sustains damage I'd say Safran, but who knows? It's the entertainment industry.
And I'll bet anybody $20 we see Ellis in a series this fall. He's good buzz generation just for being Ellis (and obviously a good sport, having done the Tom's nightmare sequence.)
- [quote]They watch for the drama and songs, the end!
Which is why it did OK in season one and tanked in season two, where it delivered so much less.
SMASH was never going to #1 in the ratings. It was for smart people and apparently fan groupies. But it could have been one of the 5 year success stories where the audience grew once it found it's footing. Thing is, it lost it's footing in season one and then fell face down and crawled drunk through the gutter before passing out up against a tree where a dog pissed on it in season two.
- Holy crap, just listened andThat's Life is amazing - bowing down to Megan and Katharine on this song because they really deliver. Not Marc or Bellhop, will we get a full performance of this in the next episode? Hope so!
- [quote]Rebeck continues writing successful plays.
- I think McPhee should stick to her music career from now on. Or dye her hair blonde again. Does anyone remember that? It was so transparently her thinking that the only thing keeping her from a successful film career was brown hair.
Uh...I think not.
- Well, OK, 87, continues writing plays then. But she isn't ruined by SMASH... I doubt the woman described in that notorious article just emerged during the show. People know what she is and isn't and she's got an OK career... SMASH won't kill that.
- It just occurred to me that Ivy is basically a neurotic, semi-damaged character... now I understand the intense affinity some people have for her... poor suffering Ivy and all the unfairness in her poor misunderstood me world = them.
- I think of the Broadway stars in Smash, Borle will have the best tv career if he chooses to pursue that. I think he's by far the most talented Broadway actor. I personally don't see Hilty having a great tv career, and I think she's better suited to theater. Of course she is great in a show like Smash. Interesting to see though. McPhee and Messing and Davenport will all be fine. I see McPhee more as a movie actress, but anyway, I believe she has a new record coming out soon anyway so would assume she's concentrating on her music career now. Huston is Huston, so no need to worry about her.
- R88 - McPhee just cut her hair short FWIW.
- R88 "I think McPhee should stick to her music career from now on. Or dye her hair blonde again. Does anyone remember that? It was so transparently her thinking that the only thing keeping her from a successful film career was brown hair."
How dare she change her hairstyle, how dare she!!
- Course with the whole lot of them you never know what actual quality show might land on HBO et al and they'll knock your socks off. Network TV can only sustain crap and it's no measure of anybody's talent, 90% of the time.
- R90 ha!
- Megan Hilty is massively overrated. I see her having a really successful theater career, but can't see her doing much in tv. Agree with the person who said Borle would have the best tv career.
- The I-voids invest a fair amount of time in imagining why Katherine McPhee does what she does. They can't just keep it to the characters.
- Add me to the 'That's Life' is amazing list. They should basically just have Hilty and McPhee do a duet every episode, problems solved!
- Agree with 96. I don't see Hilty every breaking out and becoming a 'star'. She may get some small TV roles in the future but that's it. She should stick to theatre.
- [quote]Megan Hilty is massively overrated.
The last time I saw scenery chewed this hard, Patti LuPone drop kicked the fourth wall over a camera phone.
- I don't think the failure of this show will harm the Broadway actors. It just won't allow them to transition to TV. Oh well. We all can't be Jesse Tyler Ferguson.
Borle and Hilty and Jordan and Mietnus and the diva will have more offers for stage work because of their larger fan base. Maybe McPhee will pop up in Roundabout stuff but I don't think she has the chops.
Deb Messing will continue doing whatever she does, ditto Huston. I wonder if Huston will feel like Barbara Stanwyck post-The Colbys.
- Being noticed is being noticed. I mean, Mr. Pamuk got a CBS series for playing one dead fuck.
- I can see Hilty in a cable drama role. Alan Ball loves to cast stage actors. Think Weiner does as well.
- Not Marc or Bellhop - will we get to hear Ivy sing ALL of Don't Forget Me or will it be another snippet?
- And fair to say too that inevitably, Hilty will get a Weight Watchers endorsement.
- I bet if Bombshell does go to Broadway, good odds McPhee opens it.
- Anyone else think Hilty looks worse on screen this season? I don't know what the hair and makeup people did but it's not flattering at all.
- R107 - She gained a couple pounds.
- , she could sing "never give all the heart". I believe that's the only song that hasn't been fully shown.
- Hey Not Marc ..... why have we never seen any other technicians?
As a proud IA guy / Broadway stagehand - it is crazy that the one female stage manager does everything. No assistants.
- [quote] I bet if Bombshell does go to Broadway, good odds McPhee opens it.
THIS WILL NEVER NEVER HAPPEN
In 20 years Encores! will do it as a fundraiser.
- So fans are speculating the 'death' is going to occur in episode 14! Mainly based on the fact there are candids of Derek embracing a crying Karen, and Jeremy and Kat tweeting about it being "sad Smash" day on set. Yay or nay Bellhop?!!
- I was watching a few s1 eps last week and as much as I thought Kat McPhee looked gorgeous last season, she really does look even more stunning this season. I know Safran wanted to sex everyone up a bit more, and give them the gossip girl treatment, but I only really noticed it when I looked back at s1.
- The idiots at NBC and the moronic show runner killed this show. There were good writers involved and good directors. NBC sucks and has since Carson went off the air.
- Kat cut her hair? You do mean she just took out her extensions, right?
- R115 - It's above her chin.
- She's looks like Johnny Depp. And I don't mean that in an Ivy is Awesome kind of way.
- [quote]it is crazy that the one female stage manager does everything. No assistants.
but another lost opportunity. Ann Harada's character, if I recall, was Derek's girl... in that they seemed to have a previous working relationship and she certainly didn't fear him. So when Derek did his Bombshell flounce it would have been great to have a nice scene where he told her a pay check was more important than loyalty to him. But, no, let's have Grumpy Smurf do some blow and piss of everybody for another week writing Generation Rent.
- Bellhop, give us a clue how Ana ends up losing The Diva role? Does this Daisy person blackmail Derek with sexual harassment threats or smtg? Or does smtg happen with Jimmy's drug dealer ?
- OMG R119 WHO CARES. THERE'S LIKE THREE EPISODES LEFT. JUST WATCH IT.
- My problem with Ana playing The Diva role is that I just don't think Krysta is well cast for it. she seems like a fun girl, but she isn't as talented as the other Broadway stars on the show, and she has a good voice but it doesn't compare to Hilty or McPhee's.
- That's Life is SO GOOD
- The truth is McPhee was not originally intended to be the main character on Smash. That role belonged to Ivy. But after the pilot was shot and shown to focus groups McPhee tested so well that they decided to make her role bigger. In fact, they decided to shoot additional Karen scenes after the focus group sessions for the pilot because she tested so well.
- Let's be honest: No show with a "diva" is cutting edge.
- R124 ha, this is true
I would still totally go see Hit List if it were a real stage show. I love all the songs, theyre so catchy, and I like the story. And i think Jeremy and Kat are perfectly cast for it. They need to stop pretending its some edgy cutting edge show though, because it clearly isn't lol!
- If they turn Bombshell into a musical with McPhee in it they'll just throw more millions into the toilet on top of the millions lost on Smash.
While the songs are good the idea of a musical about Marilyn was always a terrible idea. Plus McPhee can't act or hasn't anybody noticed.
- You can't place all of the blame on Safran. Like Rebeck, he most likely received notes from executives at NBC and other 'important' people behind the show that forced him to use certain plotlines. I'm sure he was told to make the show appeal to a younger crowd and that is why Hit List is so prominent. Of course, that was all for naught seeing how the S2 premiere had a shitty lead-in and there was no new audience to sample.
- #126 - The Marilyn musical idea came from Scott Wittman himself. Rebeck wanted to do a musical based on some Victorian novel with sword fighting and feathers.
- I hated the idea of a Marilyn musical (and some of it seems awful... eso the JFK song).... I'd rather see her crack up done in a Misfits sequence) but they sold me more than I thought I could be sold on it. Is that true, feathers and swords?
- I LOVE "That's Life", Katharine and Megan both sound amazing on it.
- Whoever said Rebeck was still writing successful plays, maybe we could ask the producers of Dead Accounts to verify that statement.
Did Seminar recoup? It ran with Rickman, but when the replacements came in it tanked, and plus it didn't get a single Tony nomination. Rare that a play runs so long and doesn't snag a single nomination.
- Emory Cohen is in a new movie. Surprising.
- "Kat" McPhee's next TV gig is apparently the title role in "The Lisa Loeb Story" for Lifetime (Television For Women).
- Seminar was atrocious. Dead Accounts was even worse.
- The Lisa Loeb story? Give me a fucking break.
- To the Ivy fans bitching, you don't think we didn't do our s2 research? One of the biggest drivers coming out of that was that the majority of viewers were Team Karen and liked Kat McPhee and so of course she was still going to be a s2 main player. There were also enough Team Ivy-ers out there, and as you've seen, s2 has gone a long way to give her a redeeming arc this season. And IVY IS MARILYN! Yet still you're apparently not satisfied!! A lot of it comes down to general appeal, and as borne out by the E scores, McPhee's was high (in the 80s) and Hilty's was low (in the low 20s). I forget the exact figures.
- Well the focus groups really did a great job!
Smash is a huge flop and got less viewers last Saturday that OWN. Bravo!
- By majority of viewers I assume you mean about 500 people right?
- , I'm glad they did a research. after having ivy 'steal' a song, sleep with karen's boyfriend and etc (and that was one of the main complaints people had, why not have two sympathetic leading characters?), it must have been a surprise that karen was more well-liked.
- R136 that research makes sense to me. Yes Smash is a show about Broadway, but its also a show on network tv, and you're always as far as possible trying to appeal to the masses. Megan Hilty just doesn't have that widespread appeal as much as someone like a Messing or McPhee does.
- Smash s2 flopped for so many reasons: lack of good promo, terrible scheduling, the massive gap between seasons, the negative press etc. I don't even blame Safran. He didn't get the viewers in the first place and he can't be blame for that. I think s2 is much tighter and generally better than s1. It he,ps for me of course, because I love the hit list music. My one complaint is jimmy. They did such a bad job with him!
- I guess the irony of using market research to restructure a show so it's an even bigger flop is getting lost here.
- Will the real Marc Shaiman please reveal himself
Too many Not Not Not Not Marc's to keep track!!
- When will Christian Borle come out? There is no way this man is straight.
- R142 I don't think the premise for the general outline of the plot for s2 has been the problem. I quite like it. I think the main problem has been just getting those viewers back in the first place, which nbc failed to and a more niche show like Smash was never going to cut it behind the woefully rated The New Normal.
- Borle is straight?
- , surprisingly yes. he was even married to sutton foster from "bunheads" (and broadway).
- There is someone who is posting a lot in this thread but clearly doesn't know how the troll-dar button works. No one associated with the show ever believed that Megan didn't have mainstream appeal. There was no research done which said that either. Any issues with Ivy's popularity in season one was a writing issue. Period.
- R118 Ann was busy with another gig. What little you see of her was all she was available for.
- I think everyone is trolling on this site now. Even Bellhop is full of crap
- You know someone's a crazed ivy fan when they for real bitch about Karen jokingly saying "ivy" in Thats Life! OMG PEOPLE, GET SOME PERSEPCTIVE. It was clearly a light hearted moment in the song!!
Which. Is awesome btw. Might be my fave musical moment of s2 so far
- Wow I love love love That's Life. I wonder how Karen and Ivy will end up,singing it together on the show!
- Our two Not Not Marc's (R136 and R140) appear to be... congratulating themselves on their marvelous research capabilities.
I also wish somebody would explain how ratings of the two women's popularity affected anyone, considering that Laura Osnes has said she was a top three Karen contender. If it was all based on a popularity contest, wouldn't you just give McPhee the role the minute she showed interest, and not bother auditioning anyone else?
- I think Smash's main problem has always been the execution of their plots, which aren't themselves always such bad ideas. Like for example, last ep they went way overboard with Karen bitching about Ana getting more songs. I mean the Karen who has been portrayed so far in the series wouldn't have reacted in that way, at least not to that level. Not Marc says it was done to ground the character more. Sure I understand that, but at least do it realistically. Have Karen starting to question things, but Smash is just so heavy handed with everything that they had her stomping around like a spoilt child all episode which was OTT. That's just one example, but it feels like the writers are always too eager to have characters act completely out of character to facilitate whatever storyline they're running at the time.
- This show is still on the air? Where?
How is it going to end then, with a bomb going off on opening night in the mezzanine?
- R141 You forgot airing the 2 hour season 2 premier, fully knowing the next week was being preempted by the president , instead of airing it 2 weeks later, what a way to kill the momentum, of a returning show.
- R153 yeah that was me trying to post as Not Not Not Marc, and failing! i don't have any insider knowledge sorry to disappoint. And the point I was making, I can see that there are different audiences for a show like smash, and I do believe that someone like mcphee or messing would maybe be more relateable to a general audience than a theater actress like Megan Hilty, whilst Megan is obviously going to be more popular amongst theater fans. And I include the singing in that.
- R153 ummmm well if Laura Osnes was a top3 contender and didn't get the role then surely that does say that they went for mcphee because of her more widespread appeal no? Or else, wouldn't they have just gone with the Broadway star?! If that's the argument you're trying to make?!
- Lol at the thought of Laura Osnes in Hit List!
- I think the last few episodes of Smash have been pretty great. I think they failed by having such a slow start to the season with the pointless JHud and liaisons stuff, and hit list took too long to get going properly. It's hit it's stride now though. If only they'd made jimmy a decent character, because I think an awful lot of the issues surround him, especially as he almost seems to be the lead character right now.
- Has anyone noticed how badly Smash treats female characters? Is this a Safran thing? Karen is making a fool of herself by pining over a worthless human being who lies to her and is rude to her most of the time, Messing is depicted as a mess who can't juggle work and family life, and Ivy is happily heading back into the arms of a director who treated her like shit in s1.
Smash hates women.
- Are the men much better R161?
- Yay a turf war! Why is there some necessity that someone be a crazy person fan of Megan Hilty's in order to think Katharine McPhee sucks? Those two things are not automatically related. McPhee sucks all by herself.
Just like Smash sucks for a lot of reasons beyond McPhee and Rebeck. Like Jimmy. And Julia. And Eileen. And Hit List's generic music and mystery plot. The massive plot issues. The idiotic character lines. The tell don't show story policy. Really there is plenty of blame to go around.
I think Borle and Hilty will go back to Broadway. They are both well established there and seemingly happy. Hilty seems to be interested in Broadway and music right now. I never got the idea that a TV career was massively important to her. Unless she can find just the right role, that's probably best. Being good on Smash is not that much of an achievement considering the talent available when singing is not a requirement. Borle is good but he's not that great. He could do cable.
Huston will probably be back to drifting from one hopeful shit project to another. Messing is already cutting bait back to her safety zone of comedy. Davenport will be fine. He's worked in TV for years in failed series and bit parts. That will continue.
That really only leaves McPhee and Jordan. McPhee I think will continue to make more headlines for her hair cuts than her talent. Jordan I think will give TV/movies a solid try, face plant, and head back to Broadway. There will probably be an album somewhere along the way.
- Borle could maybe break out into other tv roles. I see Hilty and Jordan predominantly doing theater. Jordan has that indie film with Anna Kendrick coming up. McPhees currently finishing her new album so will probably concentrate on her music for a while, and the. I see her doing some more acting stuff, maybe in movies. Messing will no doubt concentrate on comedy, and we'll see if her new sitcom gets picked up, and Huston will carry on doing whatever Huston did before Smash. Support roles in movies. And Davenports currently filming a new medical drama for itv back in England. I think everyone will be fine and benefit from their time on Smash.
- That's Life is so freaking good. Wow I wasn't expecting that
- Hilty was trying to break out into tv for years before Smash came along and she had a number of appearances in shows like csi and desp housewives, so I don't see that changing now. But she'll be a big broadway draw now so maybe she'll stick with that and the more chance of success.
- Borle will never hurt for TV work as long as Law & Order needs criminal defense attorneys.
- I much prefer s1 Ivy to s2 Ivy. At least when she was being bitchy and scheming it made her interesting, and you could kind of see the reasons she did what she did. She was layered. For most of this season she's just wandered around with a glum expression on her face and engaged in a large amount of self pity. And then they rehashed the Ivy's mom thing, and now they're rehashing the Derek thing. There's nothing new, other than maybe her rel with Tom which has kind of been I the resting. I feel like she hasn't sung as much this season either, and blame JHud having about 15 songs in 3 eps for that, and I guess Jeremy Jordan has been singing more too. Karen hasn't sung much either recently.
- I meant to,say the ivy Tom storyline was kind of interesting!
- Agree that Borle has biggest shot of a tv career of all the Broadway stars on Smash btw. I think he's the most talented.
- R161 I've always thought that. Not only Marilyn herself, but Karen, Ivy's and Julia's characters on Smash and the things they've done have all to a large extent been defined by the men in their lives, it's pretty sad. The only character who maybe isn't is Amanda in Hit List, although that story has a tragic ending, as if to say, you didn't choose love, you chose your career,came now you'll pay, so actually, yeah maybe Amanda too, lol
Check out the wikia "smash hit list" page. Someone has written out a pretty full Hit List synopsis. I kind of get where the story's going now although what the eff happened to the original plan that Jesse was the one getting revenge on all the people in his life who had wronged him?! And also, only a few eps ago Jesse said to Derek that the real reason that Jesse and Amanda's love was thwarted was be ause of other people getting in the way, but that doesn't seem to be the story either. I'm clearly over thinking this!
- Not Marc, if Karen is chasing after the wrong guy, like you say, why on earth is she going to end up with him at the end of the series? That's the worst punishment for any character. Why can't she just be single!!
- R172 Safran must have thought Jimmy's extreme levels of douchiness would somehow be appealing! Like some people have said already, doesn't help that Jeremy Jordan plays Jimmy with no charm whatsoever. He's so snarly. Not Marc, surely this must have been discussed at table reads etc. I mean you guys must watch the episodes soon after filming. You must know how a character is coming across on screen, and had time to fix things? It shouldn't take the actual airing of a show to realise "oh yeah, jimmy really is a dick"
At least Jimmy was good enough to admit this to Kyle himself last episode!
- Still think its a missed opportunity to not have some cartwills action this season, unless they were playing the long game with that,and by the time peeps realized s3 wasn't going to happen, it was too late to do anything about it. On a show like Smash I think you need to actually take advantage of the things that worked, and for me, Karen and Ivy together worked, and Karen and Derek together worked, because both couples have good chemistry, imo. Julia and Tom too.
- Everyones been bigging up Thats Life so much I was expecting to be disappointed, but its really fantastic. Vocals of both Megan and Katharine are freaking good. So it'll be just my luck that they'll show like 3 seconds of it now in the episode, haha!
- Btw Bellhop, is the Karen/Ivy duet in the last episode a reprise of LMBYS?! I'd love to see them sing that again, and would be nice if they finished the series with the song that started it all.
- Do not want Ivy to get it back on with Derek. She should have more self respect. He treated her badly in s1. Plus he's clearly emotionally juvenile judging by his petty reactions to Karen turning him down. Is it too much to ask that both Smash's leading ladies end the season single but emotionally fulfilled personally and professionally! I guess so.
- Not Not Marc must be Marc. A double negative is a positive, right? Anyway, I met and spoke with Marc once and I thought he was sweet and adorable.
- This thread has more responses than Smash has viewers.
- Visit the
DON'T CANCEL SMASH Facebook page!!!!!!!
- Borle was married to Sutton but had an affair with Laura Bell Bundy when they were in LEGALLY BLONDE. Sutton Foster got back by fucking Roger (and his monster cock)Bart whenthey were in Seattle with YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN tryout.
- [r161], I've always thought Smash was misogynist, and it's definitely not a Safran thing, because it goes straight back to Rebeck. I've only seen one of her plays--Seminar--and her treatment of the female characters there, basically reducing them to prostitutes willing to sleep with the male authority figure at the center of the play to get ahead, made me think she hated women. That impression was only cemented during the first season of Smash, with its pointed contrast between the ambitious, sexual woman who went after what she wanted being systematically punished for it and the "good" girl who had everything handed to her. (And, as you mentioned, there was Julia's crazy affair.) The show has always had a serious ick factor for me when it comes to women from day one.
- Christian Borle is a notorious pussyhound. He's the John Mayer of Broadway.
- Songs like That's Life are why I watched Smash in the first place. Pure talent
- We've arrived at that point in the thread where someone launches into a rendition of "Last Midnight."
- No, R176, the final musical number which Karen and Ivy perform isn't "Let Me Be Your Star," it's a new song. And they're actually not completely alone in the number. I think you'll be pleased with who supports them. And that's all I'm saying about that.
- As long as it's not Liza
- How many more episodes are left?
- Wes Tay-Tay's new top on the right.
- oops! on the LEFT not the right!
- Everyone has really scary eyes in that photo, r189.
- Is this show officially cancelled? I'm kind of getting into it.
- For those who may know - when I watched the "Smash" pilot, I thought Katharine McPhee a reasonably pleasant presence, though not at all skilled at acting. By the second episode, though, she seemed stiffer, less sure of herself, and this seemed to grow progressively worse.
In the more recent season 2 episodes, she has had a moment or two where she seemed to actually be acting, just a very a little, here and there.
I wonder - did McPhee realize how much better the genuinely accomplished actors around her were? Did she begin to take coaching? Was beginning to unlearn bad habits, before she could learn better ones, what made her acting worse?
- R192 I don't think NBC will ever make an official announcement. They're too embarrassed to even acknowledge that this disaster exists. They'll just announce their fall schedule and "Smash" will be absent.
- Not not marc, or one of the Nots, posted a ridiculous assertion that 'we did our s1 research' (WTF......Not, were you IN on this marvelous research, or are you simply one of The Powers That Be at this fabulous train wreck called Smash) and polling showed there were more Team Karen people out there than Team Ivy. Oh REALLY?!?! And precisely where was this scientific research conducted? I would guess not on the TWoP site, nor were any of the actual reviewers of this mess consulted. Instead I assume, if this isn't just pulled directly out of Not's ass, that this poll was done based on the Smash Facebook page or perhaps on a McPhan site?? Because if that were actually true, my dear Not, we wouldn't suddenly be seeing the dethroning of our Most Revered and Beloved Princess of all Princessdom Karen the way we are right now. She got yanked from Bombshell because she was a joke as Marilyn. They gave her the poppy Hit List to more suit her, and still McPhee hasn't been able to emote a fucking thing except vapidness. She meebles all her lines, and she shows precisely the same expression for every emotion from hope to worry to anger to frustration to jealousy to heartbreak. Pretty damn sure the only viewers (of the near zero who are still watching Smash) who remain Team Karen are her little groupies from her American Idol days. I mean, when all you can say about your favorite actress is that she is so nicely 'mellow' that's rather pathetic. Those of us who say Hilty is the better actress say so because she is the better actress. Hands down. (And look around. I don't see Ms McPhee being invited to play Carnegie Hall, star in a Broadway Encores! production, and be invited as a guest on all the shows where Megan has appeared.) And the unprofessional way McPhee has dissed Smash while it is still on the air, including obviously barely phoning in her lines in S2, I don't think she's going to find this a stepping stone to anything better. She'd better stick to singing pop songs. Ones without accompanying videos that show how dead eyed she looks when she sings...or acts.
- Thank you, Seattle Girl.
I really find it odd for Marc Shaiman and Scott Wittman to be championing Dead Eyes over Hilty. And to think they are Broadway veterans.
- , how is wilson?
- Maybe it's Dead Eyes over Lard Ass, if we're taking the debate to those heights.
Talk about misogyny, ladies.
- R197, don't be a cat.
- Wilson is doing well. Lard Ass? God, how misogynist can some people be? And how sad that the only acceptable body shape for a woman in this day of anorexia, bulimia, and billions of dollars spent on the silliness of plastic surgery and liposuction....is a twig with a BMI of 15.
- Yes, they are Broadway veterans. They are the people who would know McPhee's talent.... but I guess that only counts when the opinion is what you want it to be.
- I think Tay Tay would do well as the MC in Cabaret.
- Lard Ass? That's horrible.
- The funny thing is that in person Hilty is so far from being fat (and yes, on TV she may project as such)
- Well, Dead Eyes, Lard Ass, Big Teeth... if we're sinking to childish insults about people's physical characteristics, it's hardly a time to invoke standards. Ironically, the Ivy TWOPpers have such thin skin.
- But I like having them here. It's fun to watch them twist and burn and then report back all lathered up, wanting to shove things down peoples throats and natter on about signing powerfully influential internet petitions.
- Given McPhee's admitted struggles with bulimia, I sincerely doubt she would support her fans using such derogatory terms as Lard Ass. And for good reason -- it's exactly that type of misogynistic attitude that fosters eating disorders in the first place.
- And calling somebody Dead Eyes is where exactly on the female empowerment spectrum?
- R207 I agree. Shameful.
- Heh, heh, heh... The ScIvytologists just got the moderator slap down on TWOP.
- "dead eyes" is an insult to her acting, not her physical characteristics.
- and 'lard ass' is an insult to hi def. Glad we got that cleared up!
Never have two entities deserved each other more.
- Ugh I can't keep track of all those TWOP rules.
- I agree R202, Tay-Tay would be a good Emcee in CABARET.
- Isn't Katharine McPhee a $cientologi$t?????
- [R216} yes she is.
- Is she, R217? Because if she was she certainly never spoke about it on set.
- [quote]The Lisa Loeb story? Give me a fucking break.
This would've been boring even when Lisa Loeb was relevant decades ago.
- She's not. It's a rumor that persists. She dabbled in it because of some guy she was dating but when they didn't go anywhere, neither did the cult.
- If that story is true then Tom C must have mourned her as The One That Got Away.
- Thanks R220. Wonder if it was James Barbour? We know how he likes 'em young.
C. Milioti and her craz-EE-ness
- According to TV Guide, Miss Kathie Lee Gifford guest stars as herself on the 4/27 episode.
- Let's get Megan cast in Wicked opposite AnnE. Then give Megan 'defying gravity' to see to 'Frank L Baum' (AKA FLB - elpheba)so AnnE can see her part diminish to a supporting role for megan's showcase.
- see = sing
- [quote]The Lisa Loeb story? Give me a fucking break.
Another joke soars over the pygmy heads of DL.
- Yes she dated Barbour
- I miss Wilson Cat. heh heh.
- I know I could google search her, but who is Lisa Loeb?
- WTF? The HOTEL CARTER????!!!! The opening night party is being held at the Hotel Carter?? The biggest flea bag, worst rated flop house hotel in the city? Was this an inside joke for Broadway insiders?
- Loved tonight's episode. Even Jimmy didn't bother me too much. Liked the closing number, really liked the duet, and both Kat and Megan looked stunning. Tom and Kyle Goblinweed hooked up??!!
I started drinking wine at noon, but I swear to god I mean every word of this.
- I KNOW, R230. How fucking ludicrous is that? Of course it wasn't actually shot there-hookers and addicts would make too much noise
And how awful was it that there was a duet with Ivy and KAREN at Ivy's party? Why wasn't it with her mother, Lee (Bernardette Peters)? Or maybe just Ivy on her own on on Hotel Carter (???!!!!) ballroom floor basking in her first opening night triumph as a Broadway leading lady? Horrendous.
And how about that flash of Karen during "Don't Forget Me"? I don't mean Karen in the audience, I mean those flashes of Karen, Tom and ??? while Ivy as Marilyn was singing. This, I think, was meant to be who Ivy was thinking of as she sang her 11 o'clock number. And KAREN is included in that? Hilty sang it thrillingly, at least.
Nice work, Safran.
- Twitter and TVLine agree with you, r231.
- Hey, Bellhop, wasn't that Jamey Sheridan in tonight's episode? I thought you said last week was his last episode. Aren't you the only insider we can trust?
- Oh, gee, R234, I was off by one scene, I guess, wasn't I? Silly me. (rolls eyes) He'll never appear again.
Jesse L. Martin's last episode is coming up. And he won't even get to make a cameo appearance at the Tony Awards when Hit List is up for Best Musical. Jesse couldn't wait to get the fuck out of there. He was apparently treated far better on Law & Order and that's saying a lot.
- Oh yes, Bellhop, your never ending, all encompassing, anti-Safran tirade continues, It's boring. Your posts are so over the top with bile and exaggeration that no one with any maturity or insight can take them seriously.
- I love Bellhop's reports and comments. He gives great gossip; really a gem on DL.
- I love having both Bellhop and Not Marc here. Two perspectives, better than one!
- I thought Hilty delivered a technically excellent Don't Forget Me but it was too powerful for my tastes... I preferred McPhee's take, which built toward power. The direction Hilty was belt early belt often and it robbed the piece of the vulnerability at the beginning. Purely subjective. It wasn't awful, I just preferred McPhee's take.
Speaking of McPhee... who did her make up, her haters over at TWOP? Yikes. Those Goth lips were not a good look.
- [quote]WTF? The HOTEL CARTER????!!!! The opening night party is being held at the Hotel Carter?? The biggest flea bag, worst rated flop house hotel in the city? Was this an inside joke for Broadway insiders?
Of course it was a joke and it was funny. Probably an acknowledgment of being at the bottom of the ratings.
- Maybe it was all they could afford.
Oh, R236...are you pro-Safran, then? Your table for one is ready, my dear.
And, R237 and R238, you're very sweet...thanks
I feel now might be a good point to step away until after the finale airs. The Ivy vs Karen fangirl wars are quite tiresome to read through, though, and I hope they don't sink this thread or cause Mr. Webmaster to delete this thread.
I'll leave you with one spoiler related to tonight's episode-
That cunning little minx Daisy manages to parlay that fateful fuck by Derek (Derek, what were you THINKING?) into the role of The Diva (sorry, Ana!) in Hit List and...the Tony Award for Best Featured Actress in a Musical.
- Wow, thanks for that amazing spoiler!
But please don't leave Bellhop. Reading your comments (and the Shukert report) makes Smash worthwhile.
- I'm sure this has been posted many times, but I hope that ousted show runner from last season is having a good laugh, along with the tears that must come with watching her creation be destroyed.
- Bellhop are Jimmy and Karen going to be getting back together?? I love them as a couple and hope they make it. I think Kyle dies and Karen is the one who is pregnant with Jimmy's kid.
- The ousted showrunner is probably still stewing over that excruciatingly brutal but completely true exposé done on her first season of Smash. Bellhop, I'm not pro Safran at all. I just know he's cold and indifferent at worst. His predecessor was outright abusive.
- Please don't go, Bellhop!
And tonight's episode is the best, maybe because there wasn;t any Hit List.
- I hope there's a second expose because it went from bad to worse and I'd like to know how.
- What did Brantley say about Ivy?
- Simple, r248. You don't like Safarn's story lines or writing. There was an attempt to get rid of the non-theater characters and to bring in more youth in the form of another show. You didn't like that new focus and/ or you didn't like the execution. Pretty simple.
- Why would you hope that Kyle dies. Not only is he looking better every week, but his character is a nice person?
- I enjoyed tonight's episode, especially the shitting on the NY Times.
I half expected Angelica Huston to refer to him as "Lady Brantley."
- NBC seems to be actively trying to get people NOT to watch. On their website, it was shown as airing at 8PM on the top of the screen but at 9PM further down ... and on one of the online TV listing services I use it was also shown at 9.
- Oh, God. To set the record straight:
Jesse Martin was cast to play a love interest for Julia. (Daniel Sunjata had a series on USA so was always temporary. He came with a hard expiration date.) Then,, NBC cast him in a pilot, screwing with his Smash availability. Why? Because they liked him and had a project that fit him. They were comfortable enough with him to cast him on an arc on Smash, then decided to up the ante with a pilot. Did this mess with the plans Smash had for him? Yes. Was it a rational decision on NBC's part? No. They don't seem to be making a lot of those anyway. Did it have anything to do with Jesse not liking his treatment and so demanding another gig?? Oh my God no.
This is not something a makeup person on set would know, but, reading the silliness here, I felt compelled to share.
- Thank you, r254, for reiterating the truth. The NBC pilot was already mentioned on a prior thread but that hasn't stopped Bellhop's exaggerations and fabrications.
- It was nice of them to bring Julia's retarded son back to escort Mommy to her opening.
- The write up of Hit List on the Smash wiki is generally correct. But anything gleaned from note cards that appear on screen should not be treated as "canon." Some attention is put into those but not a ton. "Original" occurs in the first act.
- SMASH and "canon" should be never be used in the same sentence unless that sentence includes an extra "n" and the words "creator Theresa Rebeck got fired out of".
- I thought our Boy Luke Macfarlane was in this episode? where was he did i miss?
- Why was this episode aired? Other networks replaced bomb oriented programming out of respect for Boston.
- Where was Bernie's 'At Your Feet' number?
So Daisy is replacing Ana? Ana's picture is on the poster outside the Barrymore (along with Sam's) so when is that going to happen?
I prefer Karen's Don't Forget Me to Ivy's. Also liked the staging in Boston with all of the different Marilyn's in the background. Having Ivy sing the song with the men in her life didn't add much to the number. Plus, isn't that the same way Tom planned on staging Never Give All the Heart?
The show is a mess. No flowers at the curtain call? Tom jumped up on stage but not Julia?
Ana was allowed to bring a date to the opening?
Hopefully, Ivy will turn into a bitch again because nice Ivy is a big snooze.
- Underlying hostility notwithstanding, R250, maybe it actually is that simple. In fact, it probably is. But it underscores, assuming it's right, the main strategic problem, which was trying to turn the show into something it's not. (Barring demographics I fully admit I haven't seen and know nothing about) but it seemed to me this was a show in season 1 that was aimed at grown ups. The problem was in season two they tried to have it both ways, incorporating storylines for youth and tightening the stories for the grown ups from the first season.
In the end they tried to do too much, with too many characters, giving short shrift to everything, and magnified it by odd Jennifer Hudson's appearance, which was obviously only about goosing ratings.
The last two episodes have been really good. If the early episodes had been this good it might have made it through to a third season. God knows NBC isn't rich in choice right now.
- Yeah, I thought the staging of DFM was interesting with the men present but I missed the shadow Marilyn's too.
I thought Hilty's interpretation was too angry - more of an admonition than a plea. She gave a little too much Norma Desmond with the hand gestures and faces at the end. Bad direction. I wonder if that was meant to demonstrate Tom's over-direction referenced in the Times review but that's a lot more thought than I'd give them credit for.
Good point about the flowers.
I give them credit for that dramatic pause of silence when Ivy took a deep breath at the end of DFM... it was this snap moment of 'fuck, do they hate her?'' Good effect.
- R262, last season had the same mountain of complaints so the network and producers decided to head in this direction. Some people preferred last season's flawed writing. Some people prefer this season's flawed writing. Personally, I think that this season's storytelling is much improved but characterizations are much more shallow. And I think McPhee gets better when she's playing against more seasoned actors (Davenport, Messing, Hilty) so HitList's less seasoned crew leads to bland opposite bland with more shallow writing.
But the real truth is that this show only survived because it came after The Voice. If it had premiered without that lead-in, there never would have been a second season. As much as the theater lovers want to blame the writers or an actor or the network, the real truth is that a fictional account of the drama behind Broadway just isn't a universally interesting world.
- I don't agree that world can't be made interesting. Not by a long shot. But, I agree, the characterization wasn't good, while disagreeing the stories were better. It's hard to write with that big of an ensemble. There were no properly core characters.
- Just a term, but "canon" is anything shown on screen, you can't pick and chose even if it's contradicted.
Canon can, by viewer choice, include promotional materials provided by the relevant PTB, interviews etc, but you can't really leave out the onscreen stuff...
PS Bellhop no! Post nothings, but you're the thing that makes me think I'm not insane in a legit way, and thus it's reassuring you're around. ... Yes I know that makes me sound pathetic.
- Does the notion of a "lead-in" really matter anymore? In this day and age of five hundred channels and DVRs and On Demand viewing, is there anyone who legitimately watches a show because they're too lazy to change the channel?
I honestly don't know. I'm curious.
- Is it the Barrymore? I thought it was the Lyceum. Thanks!
- [quote]Just a term, but "canon" is anything shown on screen, you can't pick and chose even if it's contradicted.
Understood. But just to fill you in, set dressing (including note cards) have to be done by one person and no one else. (Union stuff.) They can take direction from the writers, but in all likelihood what you see on items like that was whipped up at the last minute. The Hit List cards have a vague ring of truth, but do not nevessarily reflect actual songs that were written, unwritten but discussed, etc. For both shows, there was a formal song and scene order that the production team used as a reference. Bombshell was more or less complete, while Hit List had a couple of holes.
- [quote]Does the notion of a "lead-in" really matter anymore? In this day and age of five hundred channels and DVRs and On Demand viewing, is there anyone who legitimately watches a show because they're too lazy to change the channel?
Advertisers only care about viewers in the demo who watch LIVE. DVR numbers (live+ seven) are a formality and do not help a show's prospects. They are as "worthless" as older viewers. Crazy but with a logic to it.
Lead in can be everything to a show, but real hits can make their own audience. Rarely at 10pm.
- Megan Hilty is a great singer and acted the hell out of Don't Forget Me. It was just the wrong acting. Marilyn Monroe died worn out and used up by the world around. The original interpretation was better. McPhee played it/sang in ike Marilyn... used, abused, weary, a cautionary tale, a plea to be remembered in the happier moments of life. Hilty's take was a vengeful, angry ghost. Marilyn, at the time of her death, was not strong or angry, she was a lost a victim of a number of forces.
Gatsby would have been interesting as a concept for a musical. I assume they would have had to get the old gang together AGAIN. Karen would have been Daisy. Ivy would have been Myrtle. Physically, both are suited to the image of the parts. Daisy was beautiful and slight, Myrtle sort of frumpy and common. Again, Hilty could have acted the hell out of the grasping, ambitious Myrtle. She's got a harder face and a lower voice. McPhee looks much more the ingenue.
- Another shit night for ratings... the only surprize would have been if the numbers went up. I doubt anybody's even debating the show is a goner now.
On NBC, Smash tied its series low with a 0.4 adults 18-49 rating, even with last week.
- As experienced Broadway performer why doesn't Megan know that "new" is not pronounced noo, especially when you sing?
- [quote]Is it the Barrymore? I thought it was the Lyceum. Thanks!
The outside and the lobby of the Bombshell show was the Lyceum.
- [quote]Okay, so I guess we’d better check in with Karen, sad-little-half-empty-bag-of-dried-out-baby-carrots-that-are-technically-still-edible-and-there’s-no-other-food-in-the-fridge Karen...
Love Rachel Shukert's recaps at Vulture. At least as much fun - prbably more - than watching the actual show.
- Just watched this most recent episode. Wow. I LOVED it. My favorite hour of television in years. Sad that it will be gone. It could've gotten four seasons at Showtime or AMC.
- The theatre is pronounced ly-SEE-um.
The Shubert Organization
- That article was great R275!
- no more spoilers here?
I just hope ivy is not the one getting pregnant, as some sort of consolation prize (in the heads of the writes) for losing the tony.
also, I'm betting on kyle dying. ana would be too easy, and based on things I've read it seems someone will betray "hit list", so this is ana getting fired and replaced. that'll teach her to never get in the way of karen.
- Bernadette is the one getting pregnant. It'll be intimated that Ellis is the father. The proposed storyline for season 3 was to be Ivy dealing with jealousy over her new little sister who, in season 4, was to become her conniving understudy.
- Exterior of Lyceum for Bombshell
Exterior of Barrymore for Hit List
- I agree. Ana is getting a big head plus she's involved with Jimmy's bad boy brother so she'll definitely do something to get canned.
They're setting Kyle up to get killed. The fight with the brother. The sex with Tom. Plus he's one of the few nice people on the show and, as we all know, the nice people always get killed.
I'm guessing Ivy will end up pregnant. But will anyone even notice?
- Next two episodes are huge. Stay tuned.
- Huge? Cool - Ivy must have the most screentime.
- I saw a recent photo of Angelica Huston and, honestly, the make-up and wig on Smash really make her look dreadful. She looks much better off camera. I'm assuming the Smash drag is a character choice?
And, for those of you kids who aren't familiar with her work check out Prizzi's Honor, The Grifters and Agnes Browne which she also directed.
She was also up for Bridges of Madison County but lost to Meryl (natch). I think she would have been amazing had she been cast.
- Huston is downright chilling in THE GRIFTERS. One of the ballsiest performances ever. I'm shivering just thinking about that last scene.
- It's a shame this show might be cancelled. Season Three would have brought us the Hit List vs Bombshell rivalry on Broadway. It could have been good.
- [quote] It could have been good.
Seasons 1 & 2 could have been good too. They were not. Time to go.
- R281, I thought the exterior for Hit List looked like the New York Theatre Workshop on East 4th Street.
I miss Dev
- [quote] I thought the exterior for Hit List looked like the New York Theatre Workshop on East 4th Street.
You must be a local.
- Hi douche @ 290. Was just replying to 281.
- r281, please be sure to pronounce them correctly.
ly-SEE-um and ba-RIH-more.
The Shubert Organization
- I know Rosie O'Donnell has a cameo for Tony Awards finale, but was she also in Saturday's ep seated behind Tom on Bombshell Opening Night? Looks just like her!
- Nevermind, I'm an idiot. Of course it's her. I just continued watching the episode and she actually speaks! 40 lashes with a wet noodle for me!
- [quote]Bernadette is the one getting pregnant. It'll be intimated that Ellis is the father.
So they are going with a sci-fi theme to try and save the show?
[quote]Next two episodes are huge. Stay tuned.
You're talking plot and not Hilty's ass, right?
- Now that Bombshell's opened Hit List will be what it's all about. Bores me. Am happy it will drive all the sad cases who worship Ivy nuts. When Karen inevitably wins the Tony their heads will explode. I like the show for the show and watching all the characters but the obsessives about Ivy and Karen are pathetic creatures so it is amusing to watch them rant.
- Why did they keep circulating pics of Matthew Broderick from the last episode yet he never appeared. Was he cut?
- [quote]Why did they keep circulating pics of Matthew Broderick from the last episode yet he never appeared. Was he cut?
I think he's part Jewish, so probably.
- *MIGHT* be canceled, R287?
- I'm on the show next week, sinners. That'll boost the ratings!
Yours in the Risen Christ,
- Schweetie, ivv I cunnen do it...
- You bitches on this board are pretty damn amusing.
- r298, Matthew's mother is Jewish. He considers himself a "cultural Jew." In '97 married SJP in a civil ceremony at a desconsecrated synagogue on the Lower East Side. His sister, an Episcopal priest officiated.
- "So Daisy is replacing Ana? Ana's picture is on the poster outside the Barrymore (along with Sam's) so when is that going to happen?"
Wait, wait. Is Sam in Hitlist? When is that supposed to happen and who is he supposed to play? Does that mean that one of the Hitlist boys might be the person who dies?
- Sam's pic is posted outside of Hit List along with McFeeble and Eddie Munster (aka bad jimmy).
I guess he joins the cast at some point. Soon?
Kyle is strictly behind the scenes. Not in the cast.
- The Biggest howler of the series so far is the opening night party of Bombshell being at THE HOTEL: CARTER!!!
- [quote]And, for those of you kids who aren't familiar with her work check out Prizzi's Honor, The Grifters and Agnes Browne which she also directed.
She was also great in Crimes and Misdemeanors.
[quote]She was also up for Bridges of Madison County but lost to Meryl (natch). I think she would have been amazing had she been cast.
I love Meryl Streep in Bridges, probably my favorite role of hers but I can see Huston being right as Francesca now that you mention it.
- Agree about Crimes... who would ever think to cast her as a discarded mistress. Only a genius would.
- With Eastwood cast in the film and old enough to be Meryl's father, I remember wondering why they didn't just go ahead and cast Sophia Loren. She still looked fabulous for her age at the time --hell, she still does.
Back to 'Smash' --I think I howled the loudest during the entire series when Jesse L. Martin proposed transfering "Hit List" to Broadway after scoffing at the idea initially. With the exception of Hilty and McPhee really creating a true "This is what Musical Theatre is really about!" moment with their "That's Life" duet, the entire episode was a disappointment. More highlights from "Bombshell" were needed than just Hilty's finale (good as it was) --we deserved a bit more highlights from opening night of a musical they have asked audiences to care about for two seasons. The whole "conflict' between Messing and Borle over what was next for them was so shallow and resolved like a Judy and Mickey "Let's put on a show!" moment. And who really cares about the whole "Hit List" backstage trauma. Ah well, it's all over, right?
- I heard they cut a scene where the dresser pulls a muscle trying to zip Hilty into one of her costumes.
- That's Life is by far the best musical moment of s2. Credit to both girls for nailing it and showing they have some awesome chops.
Oh and wtf at the creepy ep14 pics of Kyle and tom together. Wrong on so many levels.
- Bellhop where are you?? I miss your commentary after each episode.
Now that we know Kyle is dead can you give us some insight as to why they killed him off?
- Sad about Kyle, I liked the character more and more each week.
- Kyle was the only likeable character on the show. It seems pretty listless now. Hit List seems so terribly thought out. With Bombshell you could infer enough that snippets made sense. This thing, down to the typecast hipsters loving it, it's a lazy mess.
And Megan Hilty's 3D shoulder moles freak me out.
- yeah, never saw Kyle dying coming...PLEASE...i am so done with this awful show.
- Kyle was the only character I liked. Figures, on this bass-ackward piece of shit.
Whoever plotted out this show really hated somebody.
- Typical - the gay with unrequited love for the straight guy is killed off.
- The chaacter of Kyle has joined Kat McPhee's eyes.
- Sad. I also liked Kyle. Loved him hooking up with Tom. A gay character on TV that I could relate to. Nonetheless, this is now what will get the producers' attention and bring the show to Broadway. Sickening but that's what happened with RENT, yes? Does RENT move without Jonathan Larson's death?
- Just occurred to me though: we may still get Kyle as a ghost. The actor might not be gone yet.
- The problem with Jeremy Jordan-- he looks feral.
- Why did they have to kill off Kyle and not Jimmy?
The show could have gone to Broadway with Sam. At this point the only way the audience will start to like/forgive Jimmy is by seeing him six feet under.
- If they come back with Ghost Kyle we're into serious deserves to be cancelled territory. I mean, deeper into it, irretrivably lost into it. Which it is already but yikes.
- Goodbye Andy Mientus! He had awfully cute feets when he was in a stock production of BIG RIVER. We didn't get to see the feets on SMASH.
- I'm back here for a brief yet shining moment because we have reached a critical juncture, haven't we? Poor dead Kyle. If he'd texted while crossing the street they could have done a PSA at the end instead of fucking up and showing a trailer for an episode TWO WEEKS FROM NOW. Idiots.
Jeremy Jordan outdid himself last night, didn't he? The crew visibly winced when Jimmy was doing his "projectile dissing" thing on top of that bar. What can redeem Jimmy now? Confessing that he was molested by his big brother? Oh, wait, Ryan Murphy's not involved in this show. Never mind.
Derek/Karen lovers-they didn't go off and fuck. Sorry. You shall remain frustrated until the bitter end.
Catch that mention of a musical named Imitation of Life (based on the old-timey book and movie)? Annika Noni
Rose is in it, not Veronica whatsername, and she gets to
lose the Tony Award to Daisy, too!
Off I go...until who knows when...don't forget me.
- The show's on the move -- again !
- Derek told Jimmy on Broadway he'd be fined for being late. What is the fine and what determines "late?"
- Bellhop, do you know, were they still writing scripts (other than the amended season finale conversion to a series finale) when the ratings started going so bad?
Because if these episodes are any indicator of a bid to be renewed... yikes! The show is rambling and unfocused. Even under Rebek's uneven, over written control, the storylines made some sense (albeit got dropped frequently.)
The way it is now I can't really tell who the central characters are still supposed to be. McPhee and Hilty don't seem to get much airtime - or much to with it when they're on - than anybody else. It's like a show without starring roles now.
- In all fairness, if I'd been driving down the street and saw someone in that scarf, singing that song, I'd have hit him, too.
- LOL R329. As much as I like Andy I have to agree.
- Bellhop- will we get to see a death scene with Jimmy crying at Kyle's hospital bed, or is he just not going to be on the show anymore?
- It's called an ensemble show, r328.
As for killing Jimmy, that would've been pointless. If you're killing someone off on TV, you want the audience to care.
- Good move, NBC. Do the 2 hour finale on Sunday of Memorial Day weekend so no one watches.
NBC is run by fucking douche bags.
No wonder it's sinking into quicksand.
- Kyle was killed because cheating on your boyfriend with Christian Borle is an offense punishable by death in the gay community.
- ^ not likely.
- Who was Kyle's boyfriend? I thought he was in love with str8 Jeremy Jordan.
- To be fair, if R35 were on a straight-woman fansite rather than DL, she would sound a little less obsessive and self-adoring than she does here. She found a higher-up on a show she's passionate about and took the opportunity to spew her feelings all over DL. Kind of smart, actually, as no one from the show would care about her views normally.
But on DL, she comes off as taking her own thoughts too seriously and assuming that media-makers give a fuck about her hissy fit. (I love Ivy, too, but I wouldn't blather on about my Karen-hatred while claiming I have none.) She also sounds more like a loser because DL has become a place that mocks anyone who cares too much about anything. That last is not a good thing for this site. It makes it uglier, shallower, stupider, and less witty here than it used to be. (Can't imagine Paul without his passion for theology and philosophy and imparting knowledge, but then, that's probably why he doesn't post now.)
- I liked Kyle's song (sort of Boy George-ish)however having him burst into song in the real world and not in a fever dream like Karen's with Dev's Bollywood number was an off putting moment in a show full of them. I will be sad to see this show expire as it is so far into the sooooooooooo bad it's freaking fabulous realm(like Newsroom) that I look forward with fevered anticipation every week especially to Kat's sonombulent acting style which gives the impression that she has taken one of each Doll in the Valley. RIP Goddess of Serenity
- If there is still a webmaster, could he or she check out this thread via troll-dar, so he/she can see first-hand the hateful imbecile who is lighting my screen up in yellow, arguing with its crazy fat-ass self, and trying to incite lame Ivy vs. Karen fighting? That's the very definition of trolling.
Do we still ban trolls? Please?
- That Vulture piece linked at R275 was rotten. It was like the verbalization of one long "Cathy" cartoon... but after Cathy got whiny and annoying (I liked her for quite a while). It sucked.
- I hope Karen and Derek finally hook up....the only reason I watch this show now. I think I'm going to be disappointed due the imbecile show runner.
- I hate the Vulture summaries... her rambling is exhausting reading and she plainly fell in love with herself several summaries ago. You're often no longer clever when you've decided you are very clever indeed.
- The Vulture summaries crack me up but they are migraine inducing to read straight through.
Thanks Bellhop! Want to keep making my day and tell me we don't even have to sit through a Derek/Karen kiss? Or that Derek/Karen ends for good in the next ep and puts me out of my misery?
I am ready for this show to be done. I honestly don't care that much about Derek/Ivy. At this point I just hate Karen so much I don't want her to get anything she wants. I want Hit List to fail, and the Tonys to mock her and the car that hit Kyle to go find her too. Hating characters like Karen can be fun if there is someone to like. But I honestly don't truly like anyone on this show anymore. Ivy is the least offensive but she's boring and barely present. Just end it NBC.
- I quite liked Karen in the first season and I thought McPhee did fine with the part. She's obviously not a great actress but I liked her. I guess I went in expecting not to like her because of Idol and that whole cheesy schtick. This season they've taken a moderately talented actress and watered down what little there was of the character before throwing her into a storyline that barely exists, from the plot of the musical she's supposed to be leading to the relationship with one of the most unlikeable characters ever created.
Lost in all this is the worst character, whiny baby Tom, who week to week gets more neurotic and more selfish. Then when he and Ivy have one of their pity parties... ugh. Ivy at least goes back and forth between deplorable and charming... Tom is just a giant suckhole.
- I'm still going to miss this show. It entertained me somehow.
- Say what you want about GLEE, but it remains relevant to some people some places and it is renewed for two more seasons already anyway.
SMASH? Not so much.
A shame it had to end like this, though. A pity.
- R343, at this point I'd really just enjoy confirmation that we actually learn what happens between Derek and Karen before the series finale. If it weren't for Bellhop, we would still be hanging to find out what happened between Derek and Daisy. And without that information, I can't really imagine anyone giving a crap about Derek with either Ivy or Karen.
Weird writing decision. Very weird.
- Did anyone see Theresa Rebeck's emails to Buzzfeed about their story a few months ago? She sounds like a total nutjob:
- The BroadwayWorld.com thread on Smash has been surprisingly funny since Kyle died.
- The buzzfeed journalist really should take her up on her offer to talk. It would be interesting to hear her perspective on it. She could disclose her sources to Rebeck so she knows who she's responding to without disclosing them in her article.
- "Hit List" plot, including songs.
- God, what an awful read that was!
- What are you talking about R352? Is it too edgy for you to handle? That must be it. They let you videotape and take pictures at HIT LIST. That's how edgy they are. Totes edgy, bitch!
- Wow the show was bad tonight. I mean Kyle was a decent character but a whole episode devoted to how amazing he was. Ugh.
The lead of a Bway show calls in sick so she can attend a memorial to someone she didn't even know and support a guy she's breaking up. Yeah that makes a lot of sense.
- What R354 said. If they had bothered to show any of those scenes BEFORE Kyle died, his death might have had more of an impact. He's a plot device.
And I cannot fucking believe that they included that line that he said to Jimmy: "Someone has to die so that you can learn a lesson."
Seriously? A professional television writer actually felt that needed to be expressed out loud?
- Typical Ivy self indulgence, calling in sick to go to something that has nothing to do with her and for the express purpose of petty passive aggressive mind games. She's gone from neurotic and needy to neurotic and fat headed. One of the most unlikable characters on the show.
- Andy Mentius was informed of Kyle's demise the day before the production went on their break for the holidays in mid December. When production resumed in early January the crew still didn't know what was happening until they actually got around to shooting Kyle's deer in the headlights look on location. It wasn't included in the sides (the script pages for that particular day) or on the callsheet. The make-up and hair department was particularly devastated because Andy was one of their favorites. Andy himself was, of course, quite upset about getting dumped but was thoroughly professional. Afterr he shot his last scene his mother sent a large parcel of homemade chocolate covered pretzels with a note saying something like "Thanks for being so terrific to my son. Love, Kyle's mom" Let's just say she probably wasn't too fond of Safran. It was his idea to kill off Kyle. How very Gossip Girl of him.
- Kyle's death was the basis for the pitch for the entire season.
- This won E's Save One Show competition.
- Don't know why Andy Mentius would be upset about the demise. Everyone knew there was absolutely no way it was being renewed for a third season. Debra Messing has already shot another pilot before she finished her SMASH scenes for the season.
- Bombshell vs HitList and entwining of the two shows was the basis for the pitch for the season.
- How bad could the actor playing Kyle feel? By then didn't the whole cast know the ratings were terrible and the show was done.
- Yes R361, and part of that was always, the new show's book writer dies in an accident, sending the show to Broadway.
- Was it really, Not Marc? I wasn't aware of that in the production office. Really? And...if true...what a wonderful event to hang an actual season on! And Safran pitched that to Spielberg which then led to him getting hired? Huh. Never heard that. Wow. That sorta explains a lot IF IT'S TRUE.
I'm most looking forward now to seeing Ivy's "epic" number "Grin and Bare It." Some gay teens with taste will be lip-synching to it to their mirrors this summer. And it will be utilized in more than a few drag acts down the road. Well, it'll certainly be a hit on Musical Mondays at Splash, anyway. It still has those, doesn't it?
- do we get to know who was driving the car that hit kyle? I hope it's not jimmy's brother, who will then get arrested.
- At this point in the season, we can all figure out what is likely to happen. Thanks for all the posts, Bellhop. I sincerely mean it. But, R364 was a little over the top.
- According to one of the staff writers Kyle's death was planned from the very beginning of S2
- if it was planned they could have done better with it.
like some flashbacks scenes not being flashbacks, and building to his death. he only became a 'real' character three episodes ago.
before, he was just jimmy's annoying friend who was overly excited about meeting anyone related to broadway.
- R360, at the point Mentius was cut from the show (mid December) the show hadn't even had its season premiere yet. There was still a lot of hope among the crew of a third season. And he was disappointed he wouldn't get to participate in the Tony Awards stuff, too. And he was out of a job. Do the math.
Sorry if I came off as too "over the top" but the notion that Kyle's death was the basis for the entire season is really quite awful. A minor character like Kyle? Am I the only one who doubts this? OK.
- Did Any sign a confidentiality agreement? It seems like he was spilling plot points to his mother...(unless his mom was working on the show)
- Bellhop and R360 Can't you at least spell the poor man's name correctly? It's MIENTUS.
- What a maudlin, manipulative and CHEAP turn to wring tears out of the the totally arbitrary death of a character.
- I'm sorta enjoying it but the way they're ripping off the entire Jonathan Larson/Rent story feels a little gross, particularly with so two iconic Rent cast there (Daphne, Jesse Martin).
- Don't worry, R373, Jesse L. Martin makes a hasty exit very, very soon. Scott doesn't even bother to show up for the Tony Awards even with Hit List up for a slew of 'em, even Best Musical. Maybe he's followed Daniel Sunjata's character and will be dramaturging in London. As a cast member exclaimed when told of Martin's abrupt departure after thinking he'd been secured for the final episodes-"Black people come and go so quickly here!" After Sunjata, Martin, Hudson, and Odom's now you see them, now you don't appearances the remark did have a certain sting to it.
Sorry, it is Andrew Mientus. I before E except after C and...never mind.
The twits on TWoP are in overdrive speculating who's pregnant in the final episode. Uhhh, it's really not a major plot point, it was just something thrown in at the last minute.
- Jesse L. Martin talks funny, like he has dry mouth
- You're back Bellhop! I'm a big enough fan of Ivy to finish this shit out but any warnings you can give me I'd appreciate. Tonight was awful. For the first time this season I can honestly say Jack Davenport seemed to be giving it his best shot but even he couldn't make up for how bad this ep was. For God's sake, they couldn't even get the Tony categories right. It's featured actress not supporting.
I can 100% believe this was part of Safran's original pitch. It fits completely into how awful and misdirected this season has been. Kyle's death was tacky enough and disgustingly similar enough to real life that I can see it being part of Safran's big plan.
I am a little confused on something you said Bellhop. You said Ivy/Derek are endgame and that Derek/Karen didn't sleep together. From what I saw tonight? Bullshit. Nothing about Derek and Karen's story made sense. And I have trouble seeing how Derek gets Ivy back in three eps considering how over it she is and the fact that Karen is now not just an insecurity for her but someone he really banged. I remember what you said but are they actuallly clear on those two points or are those two spoilers more something that is implied or left up to the viewer?
- I swear to you, Bellhop, it was. It was a secret everyone was sworn to keep. I don't know if you are being sarcastic, but it's the truth. No one was aware of it until absolutely necessary, the cast most of all. "One good death" was promised by Derek at the top of the season for a reason. There are a lot of parallels between the plot of Hit List and the incidents of the characters involved in it that were no accident, but part of a long plan. It seems unimportant to point out now, but I hope it was rewarding to some fans. I mean, Hit List is a show about a girl who steals a guy's songs to help her career out, at a price, and it owes its existence to a girl who stole a guy's songs because she thought it would help her career out. In Hit List, a guy saves a girl from a literal and emotional precipice. In Smash, the girl who performs in HIt List saves the guy who wrote it from a literal and emotional precipice. Maybe it seems hammy and not so clever after the fact, but it's all there, and more.
R365, Kyle was killed in a hit and run, and that's that.
- I was going to guess that at the Tony's, Ivy beats out her mother for Best Supporting/Featured Actress and Karen gets Best Actress (Lead), leaving all parties satisfied. But then there's that Daisy getting Best Featured Actress rumor, so...
- Bellhop- I thought Luke Macfarlane was in this episode? did i miss something?
- [quote]Typical Ivy self indulgence, calling in sick to go to something that has nothing to do with her...
And I find nothing wrong with that at all.
Donna "Hello, Bellevue? Is my room ready?" Murphy
- Quote- Typical Ivy self indulgence, calling in sick to go to something that has nothing to do with her...
Considering the way Derek reacted when she told him she would come I have trouble seeing how it had nothing to do with her. Kyle's death might not have but its effects on Derek certainly do. I actually thought that was the one redeeming storyline in the episode. The fact that she didn't romantically/sexually tease and treated him like a friend throughout then told him he didn't have a shot at the end made it perfect.
- [quote]The twits on TWoP are in overdrive speculating who's pregnant in the final episode. Uhhh, it's really not a major plot point, it was just something thrown in at the last minute.
The twits on TWOP are now wetting themselves over SMASH fanfic... they've completely departed any effort at critical analysis and have entered gushing hot flashes, while oddly retaining so many of the characteristics of 12 year olds.
R376, in their walk to the theatre before Tom broke the news about Kyle's SMASH, Karen plainly said they hadn't had sex and Derek also said to Petunia they hadn't had sex. Though he flat out lied to her in that scene on some aspect of his relationship with Karen, can't remember what.
It's good the show is ending... the Ivy character goes out with a little bit of dignity. She may be skipping shows but at least she's not hammered and screwing other people's boyfriends for spite. If they'd gone to Season 3 things would have to go off the rails for her again and she's really hard to root for when they write her in trouble. In fact, without her unlucky or self inflicted screw ups, she's quite boring.
Shame about Kyle... he and Tom were a bit interesting in the flashbacks.
- R381... disagree. The guy's told her he's down so what does she do? Show up to tell him what's wrong with him ASAP. Thoughtful. But then I've always thought of the two female leads Ivy's character was to show the damaged, narcissistic performer archetype and they certainly succeeded there.
- In the real world of theater, if your director wasn't your equally self-indulgent friend, if you'd called in sick when you weren't, would there be consequences the way you get fined if you miss the thirty minute call?
And when Tom decided to ditch his show halfway through, did the stage manager just assume total responsibility?
I'm curious as to how detached from fact this trainwreck is, accepting creative license stretches the action on all shows, all the time.
"if you are late on Broadway, you get fired"
Best laugh we've had all decade
- And did Tom throw Bernie into the At Your Feet number in memory of Kyle? All in a matter of hours?
- Equity members, what percentage of your salary do they take as a fine?
- Do people give their phone numbers when they buy theatre tickets? I though a credit card was enough.
How did they contact the entire audience to cancel/uncancel Hit LIst?
- R388 - they were subscribers to the MTW
- The loony bin at TWoP won't know what to do now that Bellhop's called them twits. They quite relied on scalps from here and the mods won't let them express their bunched up panties about it. Definitely some pigs in a poke now.
- [quote]And when Tom decided to ditch his show halfway through, did the stage manager just assume total responsibility?
I don't work on Broadway or anything, but I'm pretty sure once a show has opened officially, the director and writers don't keep showing up at every performance like they do on Smash.
- Tom came to the performance just to make the change to At Your Feet that Kyle had suggested.
- Not Marc - is it normal to change direction after the show has opened? wouldn't a show be frozen by opening night? Besides Spiderman, which got a reboot, has this ever happened?
- R393-I'm not NotMarc but yes, it has happened on Broadway before. CAMELOT opened and soon after, the song "Take Me to the Fair" was removed as the creators felt that the show ran too long. In another Julie Andrews vehicle VICTOR/VICTORIA (what is it about Julie's shows?) the number "Louis Said" was replaced when Liza Minnelli stepped in for what turned out to be a disasterous two week run filling in for Andrews. When Julie returned, the number stayed out as did the new song that was given to Liza in her run of the show. Also some if the dialogue was altered as Minnelli coul dnot handle a Britsh accent and ehr character now came from Canada instead. When Liza subbed for an ailing Gwen Verdon in CHICAGO, the ballad "My Own Best Friend" which was sung by Verdon and Chita Rivera, became a solo spot for Minnelli.
More recently, the finale "They All Laughed" number from NICE WORK IF YOU CAN GET IT was taken out after the show opened.
After the show had been running for several months, star Gwen Verdon voluntarily made the decision to eliminate one or more of her numbers from SWEET CHARITY depending on how she was feeling (how tired she was) at any given performance.
I'm sure there are other examples too.
- And, R393, Martin Guerre was shut down in London for a few weeks so a "new version" could be rehearsed. It wasn't an improvement, I saw both versions. And Andrew Lloyd Webber shut down his Phantom of the Opera sequel Love Never Dies aka Paint Never Dries so it could implement changes which were made when the Australian production was launched. And that apparently didn't work, either.
The mention of ALW makes me think if it would have been a better idea to have had Karen win the role of Marilyn from a TV reality contest a la How Do You Solve A Problem Like Maria? which ALW was on as a senior judge in the UK. And the series would have been about a nobody like Karen is plucked from obscurity because of a public vote on TV. It would show how she fares up against her "alternate," a hard working veteran of the
Broadway world who has to "share" her role on matinees
(Ivy). Of course the American Idol comparisons would have been inevitable because of McPhee but at least it would seem to be an accessible hook for the show to hang itself on in terms of a potential audience. Flame away, fellas.
Have I gotten those twits at TWoP all atwitter, R390? That's lovely, if so. I must, however, point out that there are a few on that board (like DivaGal and L star) who seem to have highly cogent opinions so you can't write them off completely.
- Liza's run in V/V was more like 5 weeks. Except she fell ill during her final week and the standby took over.
It's not unusual to make changes once a show opens but changing a musical # in one day is a bit strange. But that's the world of SMASH!
- [quote]Kyle was killed in a hit and run, and that's that.
So, in other words, it is just a completely arbitrary event to manufacture bathos.
- Mercy killing.
- Spielberg is a smart and good man and he admitted his huge mistake hiring Rob Marshall to direct Memoirs of a Geisha. He also admitted that the film should probably have been shot in Japan with an all-Japanese cast and it maybe should have even been in Japanese with English subtitles. He might very well admit his mistake of hiring Safran after the finale airs. Spielberg's a classy guy so won't trash Safran completely but he will end up being relatively honest about the failure of Smash, I think.
By the way, it was Safran's idea to have Eileen throw a drink at Michael Cristofer's character AGAIN in last night's episode. It was suggested that maybe the joke of that was already played out but Safran's dopey response was "So what? It's in the opening, isn't it?" And he laughed and laughed at video village when the bit was shot and the crew stared at him like he was the village idiot. Which he was. The one who fucked up the show they hoped would get another season.
- Bellhop, the network cut a titles sequence with Eileen throwing a drink at the camera. No one requested this. He felt he had to do it once, and he only did it once. What weird lengths you go to to trash the boss because he wasn't nice enough to you. How about other people on set? Was there anyone on the crew or cast who had a habit of yelling, cursing at people, loudly berating colleagues, holding the production hostage? You know there was, and yet, you pick the strangest axes to grind.
- [quote]Spielberg is a smart and good man and he admitted his huge mistake hiring Rob Marshall to direct Memoirs of a Geisha. He also admitted that the film should probably have been shot in Japan with an all-Japanese cast and it maybe should have even been in Japanese with English subtitles. He might very well admit his mistake of hiring Safran after the finale airs. Spielberg's a classy guy so won't trash Safran completely but he will end up being relatively honest about the failure of Smash, I think.
That is so big of Spielberg to admit that someone else did a bad job. I'd be more impressed if he owned up to the fact that he manages to ruin almost every picture he directs with his schmaltzy instincts.
- bellhop and not marc, did you ever meet each other on the smash set?
- [quote]Was there anyone on the crew or cast who had a habit of yelling, cursing at people, loudly berating colleagues, holding the production hostage? You know there was
This has got to be Cousin Debbie.
- What is the TWoP board?
Jenni Barber fan (Jenni was in one episode as Karen's friend back home)
- [quote]Liza's run in V/V was more like 5 weeks. Except she fell ill during her final week and the standby took over
And she left the theatre at half hour to go meet her umm.. pharmacist on the street. This is what caused Tony from going ballistic and leaving the show until Andrews returned.
Minnelli's oxygen tank stage left; ass't with lit cigarette stage right
- , television without pity board.
- Thanks R406
- Has this show been formally cancelled yet?
- Oh, Not Marc-I won't be arguing with you over a MARTINI TOSS.
No, on the set of Smash there was never any particularly disruptive behavior which involved screaming, throwing things, etc. Cousin Deb was cranky and sullen at times throughout the production schedule but that was manageable.And, as I've pointed out in an earlier thread (sorry, Not Marc!), Jeremy Jordan was snotty and arrogant to the crew his first few weeks and that wasn't because he's a Method actor. But he got smacked down by production and was OK for the remaining time he worked.
Re: last night's amusing Tony Awards pow wow-for some reason Laura Osnes is there on the board as a potential Best Leading Actress in a Musical for Oliver! But when Marin Mazzie announces the nominees on the series finale on May 26th it will be Sutton Foster who's up for Oliver! instead. I suppose they could have Mazzie loop in Osne's name for the final broadcast cut. And looking at the board for Best Supporting Actress in a Musical (it's really Best Featured Actress in a Musical but I'll forgive Agnes the PR rep) it seems that Daisy "Pilates" Parker will end up getting a Tony nomination over Chita Rivera, Patina Miller and Victoria Clark! I'll leave it up to you to guess who the other nominees will be.
- And Victoria Clark's nomination was for BEAUTY QUEEN..as if!
- a 5..6...7..8!
Karen Ziemba, TONY winning actress/dancer/singer/banjo player
- [quote]Cousin Deb was cranky and sullen at times
You try aborting your lover's child and then be filmed with all that post-abortion weight and see how happy-go-lucky you are!
- [quote]Re: last night's amusing Tony Awards pow wow-for some reason Laura Osnes is there on the board as a potential Best Leading Actress in a Musical for Oliver! But when Marin Mazzie announces the nominees on the series finale on May 26th it will be Sutton Foster who's up for Oliver! instead. I suppose they could have Mazzie loop in Osne's name for the final broadcast cut.
They're BOTH nominated. Osnes played Nancy, Sutton played Fagin.
- what was role that ana was playing before she got the diva one? a sister? what ever happened to that?
- I thought the Ivy decision was explained perfectly well. When Tom finds out that Ivy is “sick”, he nods sagely, and he is standing backstage actually watching Bernadette at the time. Next we know, he and Julia are both standing right behind Derek and Ivy, so Tom cut out of the show because he, too, thought it would be nice to support Derek. I don't care if it's realistic - it's got Tom taking his cue from Ivy, and possibly also Julia. I'm not going out of my way to paint it as bad self-indulgent behavior from Ivy when she's being endorsed by the prod team.
I definitely don’t think Karen and Derek banged, because they say they don't. But the entire “Jimmy finds them as they may have done it” scene was filmed and blocked for as much pointless confusion as possible. As Jimmy sees Karen blurred through a rainy windowpane, she looks like she tries to put on a cardigan and then a shawl dealio simultaneously, and she's never out of her short-sleeved shirt in the first place - they just want it to look like Karen is in a scandalous state of undress. Davenport does a really bad job of pretending to button his shirt. And Derek appears to exit a bathroom and/or closet in Karen’s room, instead of the bed, when he comes out to see who she is talking to. Karen even repeats that nothing happened to Jimmy; they just want to have Derek hang out to dry by feeling the need to lie to Ivy, and to spin out "will they won't they" a little while longer.
- Realistically the only time Tom hasn't boosted Little Orphan Ivy was when he couldn't save her drunken ass after the debacle at Heaven on Earth. Mind you, I'm sure that was Karen's fault too. Then again Tom's primarily concerned only with Tom, so birds of a feather.
- If Karen is the one who is pregnant than it's that feral eyed Jimmy that got her knocked up.
- I'm sure Ivy is the one pregnant, because in the world of Gossip Girl, you'd want a character pregnant by somebody she just dumped. In the real world you know Ivy'd have it terminated in a second - my career! I finally got my big break! Sorry, Charlie! Mind you, she could find fame as a Weight Watchers spokesperson in a clever product placement tie in.
- We got a new piece of info from Bellhop in r395. He's a theater queen! Not just some random television crew person/office worker.
- I'm pretty sure we're going to find out that it was Kyle who was pregnant when he was hit by the car. What they're not telling us is that the doctors were able to save the fetus and transplant it into Carolee Carmello's uterus. That reveal will be the big season finale cliffhanger.
- Even this SMASH thread has a manufactured rivalry plot device...Not Marc and Bellhop are just like Ivy and Karen, except Bellhop's posts have more life in them than Karen's black eyes, and Not Marc doesn't put his hair in a different two-hour up-do every day with too many barrettes, braids and Aqua Net.
- If Ivy does put her hair in a different two-hour up-do every day with too many barrettes, braids and Aqua Net, it's Karen's fault.
- Can we please confirm that Not Marc IS Marc?
- Well put, R421.
Yes, smarty-pants' out there, I remember already revealing that Annika Noni Rose will be up for Best Featured Actress for Imitation of Life. But nobody is a match for Daisy "Pilates" Parker-the girl can sing (I think) and shakes her bazooms real good.
To spare many of you nightmares two nights in a row-when Rosie O'Donnell presents Best Musical that woefully lowbrow show Roadhouse starring Cheyenne Jackson will NOT be one of the nominees. Imitation of Life sneaks in, though, snoozefest that it is.
- Speaking of hair, Hilty's weave looked really ragged last night. Geez, someone should fix that.
And I swear McPee has had botox. Her eyes are, yes, dead but they also look frozen. That's not just bad acting, that's botox.
- R425 Yes she looks like she's had fillers too...why? She's too young to start that stuff...that's a huge problem with her face...it doesn't move and her eyes are expressionless, so she just stares, like a mannequin. I just cannot stand her...even when she sings there is no emotion, just notes.
Wow, I spelled mannequin right on the first try. But I just realized I spelled toupee wrong above.
- [quote]No, on the set of Smash there was never any particularly disruptive behavior which involved screaming, throwing things, etc.
This is a huge, weird lie for someone who was on set for all episodes. There was absolutely screaming, and yelling, and cursing, and you were there for it, and I know it.
You also made up the story of Josh being on set for the martini toss. He wasn't there, and he wouldn't have any reason to be at LIC. You imagined it or made it up, because it didn't happen.
And I am indeed not Marc. But I AM embarrassed to be rebutting such a petty, little person! It's weird to hear your place of work gossiped about and hear lies, omissions, and ignorance repackaged as gossip. It really is. The bigger thing would be to ignore it!
- Not Marc, do tell!!! Like who? What was it about? Something important or someone's tea wasn't hot enough?! C'mon, spill it!
By the way today's up-do is adorable...love the little butterfly bobby pins, with the cascading curls...and it's piled so divinely high!!
- Killing Kyle was so arbitrary that it frankly made me feel even less invested in what's going on (and I wasn't invested much to begin with). It just came across as nakedly manipulative at a time when he was probably the one character it was possible to empathize with. The sort of stupid move you'd expect from a first semester undergrad writing student--"And then he dies! The end!"
- Looks like Saturday's ratings were an all-time high for the Saturday time period.
- safran might believe he's doing things right.
sad for a (virtually impossible) season 3.
- Megan is doing a workshop of CAN-CAN soon with a possible shot at Broadway next season.
It's official SMASH is a two season only show.
- As to shows changing after opening: the tour production of ADDAMS FAMILY is very different from what NY audiences sat throu-... I mean, saw.
- And how could we forget THE SCARLET PIMPERNEL? Halfway through the run, a rewritten script do over with a few new songs was rehearsed and put in after the cast (rehearsing during the day and performing SP1 at night) had learned it. The second version is also the one that is licensed to stock and community theatres.
- For April 15-21, Smash got a bigger percentage increase in adults 18-49 ratings from DVR viewing than any other show -- adding 175% to its Live+Same Day adults 18-49 ratings. It rated a 0.4 18-49 in Live+Same Day and another 0.7 in DVR viewing, for a total Live+7 rating of 1.1.
Still not great, but not disastrous.
- Not Marc, if you genuinely think the shit you wrote about is good writing or for that matter, good television, you should never work in this business again.
- Dreamgirls changed its second act opening from a tense news conference to a lavish Vegas production number. I'm pretty sure this happened after the show's Broadway opening, during the first year of its run.
- There were actually three versions of Pimpernell, right? The first version, then a redo, and then a close and reopen with a third version with a different cast.
- No, Not Marc, I'm not lying. Smash was a very happy set despite having an utter douchebag like Josh Safran as its showrunner. Even producer Jim Chory, who could be tough on the crew, didn't yell.
Shame on you for trying to make it seem otherwise.
- I can vouch for Jim Chory. He was the line producer on a pilot I did. Great guy.
- You are right R438--- the third version also pared down the scenic design when the show moved from the Marquis to... I think it was the Neil Simon.
- Interesting interview with Safran.
Jimmy and Dead Eye's relationship is based on Billy Bigelow and Julie Jordan, and
Ant Rapp is his ex.
- Yes Pimpernel went to the Neil Simon but if was never at the Marquis, it was at the Minkskoff.
- Link at r442 confirms not Marc was right about the pitch and that bellhop was right about when Andy found out.
- Yes, R442 confirms what Not Marc wrote but it doesn't say it was the sole reason he got hired by Spielberg, though. It was probably only a main component of Safran's overall pitch, which was a Rent-like show running alongside Bombshell, scooping up Karen and Derek along the way.
I must add something to my earlier post about the set. Of course there was probably screaming and throwing things behind closed doors but this simply did not happen on the actual set itself, not at the Eagle Street soundstage in Brooklyn, the other soundstage in Long Island City or on all the various locations it shot in. It WAS a happy set despite the usual turmoil which occurs in a high-pressure environment like a TV series. The cast and crew cared about the show and worked their asses off. And they treated each other with common courtesy and respect.
And a good time was had by all.
Safran's scavenging from the rotted carcass of Rent may have helped secure him the gig but it would seem to have backfired rather badly, don't you think?
- Bellhop, I know they have a duet coming up but are there any solos by Hilty or McPhee in the 2-hour finale?
- Bellhop, When do Karen and Jimmy get back together and will they be singing together again?
- I find Derek's enormous, fluffy wig distracting.
- the songs for the next week are out, and oh my god Bellhop did you seriously say this Mara woman is a good singer? She is HORRIBLE! She ruins the duet with McPhee, she sounds like Ashley Tisdale from High School Musical. Wow. Great song otherwise!
- [R432] where did you hear that? Do you know what part she's playing?
Quote- Speaking of hair, Hilty's weave looked really ragged last night. Geez, someone should fix that.
Can't say I noticed. I was too busy looking at her body in that red dress. What can I say? I like my women with curves. And not 'curves', real t & a around tiny waists.
I just listened to the three songs for this ep. McPhee's are awful but Hilty's is one of the best originals this show has had. That's some fabulous shit. Is that her showstopper Bellhop?
- Dear God, the unsubtle McPhee and Hilty bashing from deranged anti-fans must be so embarrassing for those ladies. Both women are the epitome of kindness and class. Their fans here do the both of them a disservice.
- Is Jimmy back as Jessie in this episode and Sam plays the Manager??
- is daisy and karen's song that sing-off that bellhop talked about weeks ago? originally between ana and karen, was that it?
- I was reading past threads on the show and people were commenting on the chemistry between derek and karen.
sure, I guess there's something there, but for me it reads like the interaction between a teenager and her creepy uncle (maybe it's mcphee's 'flirting'). last episode's couch moment reminded me of "american beauty". I can understand the appeal for some people though.
- Bellhop- Saffron wasn't pitching his ideas to get himself hired. He had already been hired. He was pitching (after being hired) his ideas to the studio and network for the new season just like all showrunners have to do.
- I remember Josh from the old RENT message boards on AOL. He was an aspiring screenwriter back then.
- R449, I never said Mara was a good singer. In fact I stand by my story that the diva face-off duet between Krysta and Kat was cut from the show because Krysta left Kat in the dust and they couldn't have that, could they?. So they decided to reshoot it with Mara vs. Kat because Mara is clearly an inferior singer.
Yes, Megan and Kat will both have solo numbers in the two hour series finale.
Wrong, R455. Safran would have had to pitch a considerable amount of story to Spielberg and NBC to get himself hired in the first place. That's how it works in television.
- Wow, Mara's voice is really not that good.I love how she's supposed to play a superstar diva! I don't believe at all that they reshot because Krysta outsang McPhee, because let's face it, Krysta's voice ain't that great either. McPhee outsings both of them. But sure, I can buy that Krysta was fiercer than McPhee in her performance. I don't believe for a sec tho that the smash peeps reshot because of the reasons Bellhop gave. I'm with not marc on this one.
- I think the last 3 episodes have been markedly better than any others this season. While not exactly documentary-realistic, the tone has been more even-handed and there have been less cringey / eye-rolling scenes.
Also, I hate neither Megan Hilty nor Katherine McPhee. I think McPhee has it in her to be quite good; I enjoyed all her staged numbers as Marilyn. I don't know whether the problem is writing her character as perpetually sullen; lack of strong direction for a relative newcomer; or her rejection of good direction, but I still believe she can be good.
I know, this post probably marks me as both crazy and in a very small minority.
- Thanks. I thought I was the only one on DL that felt that way.
- This Bellhop vs. Not Marc cunt-off is getting really tiresome. You two queens need to stop acting like you're famous and just robotically deliver gossip.
- R457- I work in television. Even if you're the show runner, you don't get to just do whatever you want. You have to pitch the season to the studio and network and of course, Spielberg etc. When Not Marc talks about Kyle's death being part of the "pitch," that's what he's talking about. AS SHOWRUNNER, he had to make a pitch. Not just to get his job.
- Bellhop does not know why the number was cut. Time was part of it. There were other considerations that had nothing to do with the actors.
R462 is normally correct, but Bellhop is somewhat correct here, for the wrong reason. The network met with a number of writers to hear their ideas for the new season, and made their decision of who to hire to run the show based on that. There was, of course, the regular course of pitching after that, as described by R462, but getting the job itself required a pitch (the two new writers, Karen and Derek joining their show, downtown vs Broadway, the death and the transfer, etc). But R462 is indeed correct, the showrunner of any show does not simply have the power to do what they want. This was especially true at Smash. In fact, many things fans have been making fun of since the beginning have been dictated, since the beginning, by suits who will never be the subject of mockery for their terrible judgment.
I don't know what gossip is left to share but I'll chime in if I can.
- Also, I don't consider anything I am posting "versus" Bellhop. Some of the things he says annoy me but I understand where he is coming from.
- All of the shows are having season finales this week and next. So do we have three SMASH episodes left? One Saturday and a two hour finale?
Savannah Wise, lookin' for the iphone Tyler Maynard lifted@Becco.
- , yes. one episode this saturday, no episode next week, and a two hour finale on sunday the week after that.
- Thanks R466
- [quote], yes. one episode this saturday, no episode next week, and a two hour finale on sunday the week after that.
They always had such an innate understanding of momentum... fortunately it doesn't matter now.
- So according to Ausiello Karen tells a blind item column about Ivy banging Derek and Dev? Shit girl. I don't care what Ivy did first I hope Karen takes crap over this. That's a shitty move. And yet it made me excited to see what Ivy will do back. Good job show.
- R451, you want a disgrace, check out TWoP. You'd think they had money on Hilty. (Who I quite like, though I don't like the character.)
R459, you're not entirely alone. I was charmed by McPhee in Season 1 and I went in with a very snobbish attitude because of American Idol. I liked the Ivy character for the first few episodes too, until she became such a whiny, self pitying thing. I hope to see Hilty again playing a well written character. I do think McPhee's gone right off the rails this season and suspect it was a blend of direction problems, a relative newcomer to acting and horrible, horrible writing in every respect, from plotting to scripting.
- R469, that would be awesome if she did! LOL. 'Cause in truth, she did fuck Derek and Dev for all the wrong reasons. Go Karen... that's hilarious.
- it's funny that they are making this story about ivy's chances of winning the tony being damaged because she slept with karen's 'fiancé' (like anybody would care), yet derek is - was? does safran remember this? - facing several accusations of sexual harassment and I bet he wins director. good job show.
- btw, I know the show remembers the sexual harassment thing when they are getting daisy into "hit list" through this I believe, but is this his 'punishment'? ana losing her part? and the other women were also lying?
- It all makes perfect sense if you imagine the show taking place in high school, and the awards are for the high school drama club.
In that case, Ivy's sleeping with Dev would definitely affect her chances.
- Bellhop/Not Marc, do both shows (Bombshell and Hit List) get to perform a musical number at the Tony's in the finale?
- Sorry, NotMarc, most of the ridiculed material from both seasons were ideas that came directly from each season's showrunner. I'm not saying the network, studio and producers don't deserve blame but overwhelmingly what the audience has seen on screen is their vision.
- Someone loses a Tony because of a blind item they slept with a director?
This show couldn't get any more stupid.
- So Ivy loses the Tony to dead eyes? Yuckest of all yucks
- I haven't read any spoilers that confirm the outcome of the Ivy/Karen Best Actress race. The spoiler that got circulated simply said that the blind item might hurt Ivy's chances.
- is Safran really so out of touch that he would slap SMASH fans by making Ivy win. I feel like not watching the rest of the episodes.
- there won't be any episodes after the Tonys, so I'm willing to bet no one is worried about the fallout.
- Of course Karen wins, Safran is a Rent fan, so Hit List will prevail.
- R475, both companies of Bombshell and Hit List perform musical numbers at the Tony Awards. And it's not hard to figure out which ones. Gee, why doesn't Mara as Daisy "Pilates" Parker as The Diva get to perform?
- Does Derek appear at Tony's? He isn't in ay of promo pics.
- They ban Daisy from performing. If Ana is back than they probably sing The Goodbye song for the Tony performance. Derek probably gets arrested and sits in Jail during the awards ceremony. Are Karen and Jimmy a couple before the series finale or do they get back together in the Tonys episode?
- [R484] I remember Bellhop saying in an earlier thread that Derek has moment in the series finale at the Tony Awards. So I would assume to have a moment he'd have to be there. Did I remember your thread correctly Bellhop?
- I won't reveal who wins the Tony Awards for Best Musical or Best Actress in a Musical. Or who gets pregnant. It's too much fun reading your guesses.
I've got a great story about Bernadette Peters, a favorable one in terms of her behavior but not somebody else's. I'll tell it once the series finale has aired.
NBC has already announced it's dropping 1600 Penn, Whitney, Up All Night and Deception, amongst others.. Maybe they'll wait until the day of the Upfront to lower the boom on Smash?
- The writing is on the wall for BOMBSHELL. Safran is a big RENT fan, no way he will let Hilty and Bombshell win.
- , I remember this too. derek saying something "british" in the finale. also that two characters talking will bring a lump in the throat to some. and bellhop, are you saying daisy is the one getting pregnant or arrested? or maybe both!
- , he could really go the rent route and have only a featured actor (daisy) winning. but I know that's not happening.
- You gotta figure they are setting up the next season that will never be... remember, according to posts, they tweaked it only once it looked inevitable it would sink. So by that logic, Karen wins the biggest Tony, Ivy, who knows but they set it up for a reunion of the rivals in Gatsby. Although another season of Ivy glaring, sulking and sniffing, this time as Karen plays Daisy, would have been a snore.
- Season one ended with Karen singing triumphantly in the Boston tryouts.
This season will end with Karen winning the Tony, and all will hail what a wonderful talent she was and has always been.
- IF there is a season 3 they don't necessarily have to bring back all of the current main characters. For instance, Cousin Deb could easily be cut (as far as I'm concerned). Maybe she could follow the dramaturg to London? Borle doesn't really bring much to the show. I would keep Davenport, Huston, Hilty and, yes, McPhee but they definitely need to turn the show over to someone who knows what they're doing. Trying to make it another Gossip Girl was a huge mistake. Get it back on track.
- , after two very problematic seasons with different showrunners maybe the problem is also high up and not easily fixable.
- (494) Very true. But the powers that be might be willing to give it another shot.
I think the two biggest missteps this season were
1. Making the audience wait 8 mos between seasons 1 and 2
3. No Ivy/Karen interaction until the final episodes.
- Tina Fey loves SMASH.
- I also think Hit List was a mistake overall. It was poorly explained throughout. As with so much of SMASH we were told what to care about, rather than shown.
- Bellhop, NBC already spoiled the pregnancy. They released a promo pic of Ivy at the doctor's office with an ultrasound machine sitting right next to her.
- (498) NBC also issued a synopsis for the Tony's episode saying that Ivy has to deal with a 'distraction.'
They give away so much with the production photos they release.
Did anyone catch the pic of Cousin Deb (sans scarf) in the audience at the Tony's with an ecstatic look on her face ('The Winner for best Book of a musical is.... )
Now, the big question is why is Ana sitting next to Karen and Jimmy at the Tony's when she's been replaced by Daisy?
- Ah, OK, R498. Yep, it's true, then, IVY LYNN IS PREGGERS! It's so good to get that off my chest.
Yes, I may have mentioned in the other thread that Derek used a naughty British expression beginning with a W and ending with an R at the Tony Awards. It's amusing. Anyway, the Tony crowd deserves it because they boo him for some reason.
- [quote]Did anyone catch the pic of Cousin Deb (sans scarf) in the audience at the Tony's with an ecstatic look on her face ('The Winner for best Book of a musical is.... )
Over St. Kyle?!? Have you read the online plot description of HIT LIST? He was clearly on his way to becoming this generation's Arthur Laurents.
- So there's a rumour tha some SMASH stars are going to the NBC Upfronts ?
- , yes, I'm sure kyle is winning best book, after last episode and hit list making people "believe again in musical theater" ('actual' quote from a spoiler pic!).
- bellhop, I have not seen this pic  talked about (does it really exist?), but like  said it was easy to guess by the synopsis. and I'm also guessing this is a consolation prize, "let's throw her a bone, not the tony of course", which is sad.
- [quote]Yep, it's true, then, IVY LYNN IS PREGGERS!
Oh, dear, there goes her figure! How boring a season 3 would have been while Derek and Ivy play fetal ping pong until the inevitable Gossip Girl miscarriage solves the whole snorefest for them.
- some people deserve to be trolled...
- R504, I don't think it's such a big deal to let the cat out of the bag re: Ivy's pregnancy but I just don't think it would be fair to leak who wins Best Actress in a Musical and which show wins Best Musical. Some surprises are worth waiting for.
- And she'll name the baby KYLE!
- or Kylie if it's a girl.
- I'm throwing out my guesses for the 'obvious' cast performances- Broadway Here I Come and Let Me Be Your Star. I always thought Tony performances were traditionally group numbers while I believe those are both solo numbers, but considering in these Tonys it's also apparently supporting actress rather than featured, who knows. Those seem to fit the 'obvious' label.
- The Hollywood Reporter says dead, just not officially cancelled. Maybe there's so much contempt for it they won't even bother to announce it's cancelled.
It's all Karen's fault. Everything ever is Karen's fault. And what isn't, is McPhee's.
- bombshell's number should be "let's be bad". I seriously only remember "voice in a dream", "the goodbye song" and "broadway here I come" from hit list, the last one being definitely the best but it's a solo number. "the goodbye song" could be it then? (maybe as homage to kyle also)
- This says it's cancelled.
- Yes, SMASH smushed. Sad.
- It's official.
- Can't say I'm surprised, but I'm still sad :(
- There is a god.
- can't say it didn't deserve it. but I'll miss "smash", it was like a bad addiction and I loved some parts of it.
- Smash Won E’s save one show contest this year & even that couldn’t save it. It worked for last year’s winner “Body Of Proof”
- Smash Won E’s save one show contest this year & even that couldn’t save it. It worked for last year’s winner “Body Of Proof”
- Will Ghost Kyle look on from the wings when Hit List performs at The Tonys?
- [quote]Will Ghost Kyle look on from the wings when Hit List performs at The Tonys?
More likely, Ghost Kyle will be bottoming in the Port Authority men's room while trying to keep his white Angel scarf from dipping into the toilet water.
- so the "kiss between a gay man and a straight man" will be between tom and luke macfarlane's character right? I remember reading that macfarlane would play a straight actor with rumours about him or something, and pictures for the final episode show him and tom together. trying to create suspense around a "kiss between a gay man and a straight man" (with exclamation mark!) was silly enough, and now it involves a character that only appears in the finale? cheap.
- R525, yes, it's McFarlane. His character was described in the agents breakdowns as "Smash's answer to Hugh Jackman." Tee hee. But technically he appeared in two separate episodes. The two hour series finale consists of the final two episodes which were shot.
Megan performs "Grin and Bare It" tonight, not in the penultimate episode which I mistakenly thought. It's quite wonderful. I'm very curious what you think of Cousin Deb's performance at the same event in the Oak Room of the Plaza Hotel, not to be confused with the Carter. Hah hah.
- Why is Tom kissing another man so soon after losing his beloved Kyle?
- bellhop, I hope we'll get to see the full "grin and bear it" number and tom and julia's song (this one is very short, on youtube at least, so I guess it's safe). I hated that they cut bernadette's "at your feet" to 30s (the choreographer expressed a similar feeling on twitter), but I suppose TPTB must have thought it would bore young viewers (they want edgy and cool!) or that it didn't really fit that episode, centered around kyle and hit list (I'll ignore that during bombshell's opening episode we had to sit through a lot of jimmy and karen drama).
only thing left is to find out who gets arrested (and of course who wins what). derek not appearing on stills from the finale is telling, or maybe not. could the writers really have ivy pregnant, tied to crepy unapologetic derek, awardsless and with her baby daddy in jail? I like to believe not, so it must be jimmy's brother. I hope it's not daisy.
- For the love of god and all that is good in the world, what happens to Wednesday Adams?
- R528, I would be very surprised if "Grin and Bare It" and Tom and Julia's "The Right Regrets" don't air in their entirety. The former is fabulous and the latter is intended to serve as an emotional turning point.
- bellhop, good! (and thank you for all the info you've provided here!)
- Bellhop, I've loved Kat McPhee since her idol days, but I have to admit she her acting on Smash was not good. Do you think there's hope she'll get another shot at something as an actress?
- THIS THREAD IS CLOSED ...
See Smash Season 2 - Part 4
- not at 600 yet....
- As a software developer, I've been involved in two or three projects that were so ill-conceived that had they actually succeeded, it would lower your faith in humanity. Those of us tasked with executing the project knew that we were constructing the next Space Shuttle Challenger. Worst case scenario--it would fail like anyone with a functioning brain stem knew it would. Best case scenario--no one knows we were associated with the project.
Luckily, in each case, adults stepped in and cancelled the project before it could do much harm.
As a result, I would imagine there are many competent working people involved in the show "Smash
" who are quite relieved that this project is finally cancelled.
- Now, now, R535. No need to snark. Ask yourself: What Would Kyle Do?
- If your doctor's office has ever called you at midnite to give you the results of your bloodtest raise your hand!
How stupid do they think we are?
Sorry, but I loved Mara Davi as The Diva and, yes, it makes sense that she's older than Nina McPee.
Oh, and in NYC we were denied the first 2 minutes (and another Hit List #) thanks to golf or some other shit running over.
NBC - The IDONTGIVEAFUCKANYMORE Network
- The Central Zone also deprived of first 2 minutes, not just East.
Loved 'Grin and Bare It'. Love Hilty. But I wonder if she -- the actress, not the character Marilyn-- didn't feel as she worked this season that she wasn't being exploited. The breasts about to pop out of the dress (some of the camera angles quite daring for regular network channels!), the voluptuous figure always emphasized in costumes throughout the season. Hilty is talented and zoftig--as they used to call it-- in the tradition of Loren, Lollobrigida, etc. I hope Hilty doesn't let Broadway and Hollywood do a "Marilyn" on her --chew her up and spit her out as a sex symbol.
- Ivy should never have been forced to say 'yeah that was pretty bad' after it was not Karen who ratted the blind item on Ivy and Dev. It was all Karen's fault!
- but karen will prevail and rise above it all.
- , the show exploits both hilty and mcphee. I remember mpchee's breasts singing the hell out of "on broadway" and her butt being a big part of the scene right before that "don’t let me know" song.
I actually believe "smash" sometimes dresses hilty very matronly.
- Deb Messing is a far worse singer than I imagined. I remember the joke of her shrill, reedy soprano on W&G, but I always imagined there was a legit voice behind it.
There is not.
Also, the staging of the Hit List number (tweeting aside--let's encourage Bway audiences to keep their cellphones ON!) was a new low, resembling the bastard child of STARLIGHT EXPRESS, CARRIE, and a late Pat Benatar video.
- I also believe the show dresses Hilty unflatteringly, but she's got nothing on Messing and even Angelica H, who should sue for abuse.
Who is the costume designer? He/she is TERRIBLE.
- I hated that "the tourists love bombshell" line. we get it show. bombshell is ok, hit list is the real deal, that legit hip edgy new yorkers appreciate.
- THANK GOD THIS IS ALMOST OVER.
- Okay, dolls. I have watched and enjoyed every single episode of Smash and actually defended it in my mind but tonight was HORRIBLE. The bullshit Erin Dilly comment. The cellphones in the theater bit-SERIOUSLY? Encourage the 1.7 million people watching to keep their phones ON in Boadway theaters? And up until now, I have loved every single Shaiman/Whitman song on Smash (Dont Forget Me, History is Made at Night, Mr and Mrs Smith, Let Me Be Your Star, Cut Print Moving On, all fabulous songs and fabulous television), and I mean LOVED them, but I thought "Grin and Bare It" was awful and served no purpose on the show! The Deb Messing song was maudlin and boring. What is the point of the pregnancy at this late point in the season? And as was said, who gets that call that late at night? I will say I thought Krysta and Kate did some pretty good acting. Ugh. I feel so let down tonight.
- Monroe was not plump
- R541- zaftig and zoftig are both acceptable spellings. Google it.
- [quote]It worked for last year’s winner “Body Of Proof”
And look how well THAT worked out! (It was cancelled this year.)
So, I thought we were all supposed to turn off our cell phones in the theater? I guess Patti will never be appearing in Hit List.
And why was Hit List running while Ivy was performing in Tom and Julia's show? Was her understudy on, or did they cancel the show that night? (Probably not a smart move in the lead-up to the Tonys.)
- , mcphee with ivy was ok, but with derek and ana... as awful as usual. she's good at playing bitchy or love-suffering (last year's finale and talking to jimmy last week on that bridge, not the part where she said she had to go and left the unstable man of her life just sitting there risking a fall).
I thought "grin and bare it" was wonderful fun. it didn't have a clear purpose (other than it's related to ivy's drama of being viewed as a 'whore'?), but the show is so awful at this point that I appreciate the good things about it independent of context. and the song is not a bombshell one (I don't know if you meant the show smash, or the show bombshell in the "served no purpose on the show") and is actually a song not written for "smash", it existed before -- like "the goodbye song" and "broadway here I come" that were not written for hit list.
- No I meant it served no purpose on Smash. Wo wrote Grin and Bare It? Was it not Shaiman/Whitsitt? It certainly didn't live up to the standards they had set so it would make sense if it wasn't.
- , oh no, it's theirs. there's a video on youtube from 2010 of the song being perfomed at an event called broadway bares (it must have been written for it).
- Again McPhee's limitations as an actress was evident in that confrontations cene between her and Derek.
- [quote]Again McPhee's limitations as an actress was evident in that confrontations cene between her and Derek.
As are your limitations as an English speaker.
Smash has better odds of being on the air next year than Hilty has of becoming a Hollywood Sex Symbol.
Let alone "used and spat out"
Thanks for the lols.
- [quote]the show exploits both hilty and mcphee.
Which is odd, given the 37 people still watching we can safely assume are not motivated by a pair of tits.
- I thought the strip tease song was uninspired. Just another chance to watch Hilty belt - we know that already. It was yet another version of a shopworn cliche. Not particularly good. After the build up, I thought it would be epic.
One of the big problems with the writing is it's Twitter writing, which curses so many shows these days. Story arcs converted to a few scenes, no build ups, lack of clarity, lack of continuity... it's like binging without the purging.
These can't be the worst writers in television history, but given how much they should have been working with, they are. I mean, the premise isn't Alf, is it?
- Was the Erin Dilly/Mille comment really necessary? That just came off as mean.
For the record, she still works, she's
married and she's a mom. And she was a
total pro about the Millie situation.
She didn't deserve a nasty remark on a
network show. Fortunately, no one watches
- Thank you , R549. I love it when the obnoxious spelling troll gets put in her/his/its place. As if anyone other than someone over 40 would even know the word - it was a very 50s, 60s word--and I proudly admit I am well over 40.
R556 --Bullshit. You are not LOL. You're weeping in your basement , consumed with jealousy because you know Hilty is one of the sexiest performers to come along in quite some time and talented as well. Name someone in NY or Hollywood that has emerged in RECENT years that has genuine sex appeal and can actually act, sing and dance. Name one, bitch.
- Plus, no one gets it R559. That was too inside.
The Derek stuff was such a waste... you could have built about a half dozen scenes around what he told Karen... he kept banging psycho, who is playing sweet and sorry, psycho tapes it, psycho reveals she taped it, psycho lays out her demands... but lets just tell it to Karen in an alley. Awesome drama.
I like Karen telling off Derek... it was the core of the character, whether it's a black and white, simplified core or not, but it was true to the character they wrote: some things are OK, some things are not, it's not difficult to discern. McPhee was weak again last night... she is plagued by a soft speaking voice and her instincts aren't strong... she should have been much more assertive when bitch slapping Plumpy Smurf, but I don't think her voice will let her do it.
I laughed at Karen telling off Ivy. Ivy slept with Derek to secure the part, if not to get it... she had Tom whining for her from the beginning. Though sleeping with Derek is no guarantee of anything since he bounced her. Nice bitchy exchange from both of them:
See you on the red carpet (sooooo Brenda Dickson, our Ivy)
If ya get there.
- I'm hoping dev is the father of ivy's baby. just to keep things smash-believable. he can even come back in the finale and tell her how 'easy' she was and that he won't help with support. do it, writers.
- And Ivy's already nominated, so she'd walk the red carpet, win or lose, right? Didn't we see the nominated competition on that pushpin board?
- why did jimmy get his part back? because his best friend died? kyle had a will they had to honor?
- I though the nominations board was predictions?
- , that was all predicting/speculating. the 2-hour finale in two weeks consists of two episodes, called "the nominations" and "the tonys".
, what is ok for karen's character? is hitting on the composer she's trying to 'recrute' (she did this out of nowhere, after the show had giving the impression she was playing a professional part in this, but when she got to that party in brooklyn on the second episode this season she was all girly-flirty) and dating him and getting the lead part on his show ok? I don't get how "smash" can have karen do something somewhat similar to what awful whore ivy did in the first season but ivy is the only one being slut-shamed and having her talents called into question. I'm not wishing this on karen, but why do it to ivy? and to bring this whole storyline back? she can't catch a break.
yes, karen is right to be mad about about the dev thing, but to tell everyone about how ivy slept with derek TO GET THE PART (that karen got afterwards)? please, take a look in the mirror and shut up.
- * had given
- It's widely dissimilar, R566, because the Karen character didn't fuck anybody. (And I disagree the character's actions were anywhere near as transactional as Ivy's. That relationship evolved on its own while the creative process was underway.)
That's where the line is drawn and it's pretty clear and obvious if considered solely as a decision and the characters are taken out of it (because there's a smack of frantic Team Ivy about your post.) The minute you fuck somebody who can give you material gain, you throw into permanent doubt how much is talent and how much was the sex. It's the price paid for making that choice. That the Karen character later got the part doesn't change Ivy's choice and the implications of it.
- , yeah, I get what you're saying, just don't necessarily agree with drawing the line at fucking (but this is the show's vision, surely, if we remember they had karen make out with derek last week but gof forbid she had slept with him), as it almost can be argued karen got the marilyn part because she didn't fuck derek, and thus remained the enigmatic prize he could not get.
I just wish all of this could have stayed in last season, and not come back to "byte ivy in the ass".
- Do we know if Karen planted the blind item? I don't think so. Considering Angelica H.'s speech about how Ivy WAS Marilyn, I sort of assumed she did it, to play up the parallels. She planted the item about Tom and Julia going their separate ways.
- btw, this show is very weird with things relating to sex.
- sam jugding tom for sleeping with guys (?!) - "my way is better"
- karen looking down on ivy for being sexy and judging her for sleeping with derek (although I excuse this for the reasons discussed above)
- julia and michael's affair portrayed as romantic
- one of derek's 'victims' apologizing to him
- karen is 'right' to fire ivy for sleeping with dev
I'm sure there is more.
- [quote]as it almost can be argued karen got the marilyn part because she didn't fuck derek, and thus remained the enigmatic prize he could not get.
I thought that was part of it, definitely.
As to coming back to bite Ivy in the ass, it was a bad call, it comes back to haunt her, that's what bad calls do and that's the basis of dramatic action.
'karen is 'right' to fire ivy for sleeping with dev"
'ivy is the only one being slut-shamed'
'I'm not wishing this on karen, but why do it to ivy?'
Drama's just chess pieces. You have characters do things to provoke a reaction. I can see liking or disliking characters based on their actions but your posts seem awfully invested in Ivy, as if she's a real person. Why? Unless you're one of those TWoP people, then it's obvious.
- ^ it is. Meow. She's ranting about slut shaming all over the internet. Whack job.
- Bellhop, is there anything in the season finale that will result in Karen being the tiniest bit less impressed with herself?
Also, did anyone realize it is weird that Derek is suddenly a cliche casting couch director, when the thing that gave him layers (and his saving grace) was that he cast based on what he thinks is best for the show. Derek from any other episode would never promise a part for sex. He'd sleep with whoever he could, but never do anything to mess with his vision of the show.
- Troll dar is your friend. Why do people pretend to be arguing/agreeing with other posters who are actually themselves. Weird.
- do people not realize what troll-dar does?
- [quote] there's a smack of frantic Team Ivy about your post
And what does that remark make your post "smack of"?
Pathetic. It's a TV SHOW.
- Erin Dilly (replaced on Millie by Sutton Foster) was referenced in the last episode - her actor husband is ranting all over FaceBook and the other theatre chat rooms.
PS - his spelling and grammar are atrocious.
- Thanks for the tips about troll-dar, it made reading all the comments very funny.
- Yes, "a dismaying embarrassment" is a pretty good way to describe it. Isherwood rightfully proportions equal blame for the show's massive cluster fuck of failure to that fat, arrogant bitch Rebeck and the talent-free, elitist, misogynistic Safran.
- [quote]Erin Dilly (replaced on Millie by Sutton Foster) was referenced in the last episode - her actor husband is ranting all over FaceBook and the other theatre chat rooms.
Not to mention that Sutton Foster was married to Christian Borle from 2006-2010. Inside, inside joke...
- Sutton and Borle always look like they need a shower. And some soap.
- Question for those in the know: who's idea was it to use the 'Cut, Print... Moving On' song to open the second series instead of what Safran originally wrote and had shot, which was Ivy and Karen going home to New York singing "New York Groove"
That person needs a medal for actually having a brain. Couldn't believe one of the few genuinely good moments of the season was a re-shoot.
- I loved Cut Print Moving On too!
- I suspect that many of you are experiencing withdrawal pains tonight so here are the Tony nominees for Best Featured Actress in a Musical and Best Actress in a Musical who will battle it out in next Sunday's series finale.
Best Featured Actress in a Musical nominees:
Lindsay Mendez, The Last Great Year
Leigh Conroy, Bombshell
Ivy Lynn, Liaisons
Anika Noni Rose, Imitation of Life
Daisy Parker, Hit List
Best Actress in a Musical nominees:
Kate Baldwin, Seesaw
Ivy Lynn, Bombshell
Sutton Foster, Oliver!
Karen Cartwright, Hit List
Audra McDonald, House of Flowers
I must add it might be possible that in post-production other names could be looped in as substitutes for Foster, Baldwin, Mendez, McDonald or Rose since the camera most likely won't be on Lilias White and Marin Mazzie's faces the entire time when they list the nominees.
- Bellhop I love you and will you marry me?
Actually what I'm currently curious about is: does Sam get a nomm? His arc's been a bit pointless, so unless his professional career actually moves ahead or he and Tom get back together I don't get it.
An' I like his character.
- The network asked for the reshoot of the premiere's opening. Most of the cutaway footage of the characters returning to NY was in the original opening. Safran added a few pieces.
- bellhop, can you say what awards do we get to see presented (or hear who won)? all the main ones: musical, 4 for acting, book, score, director?
and some predicting just for fun:
musical - hit list
actress - ivy for bombshell
director - derek for hit list (he gets booed during his speech maybe?)
book - kyle for hit list
score - tom and julia for bombshell
- The TWOP hate for McPhee has hit critical mass. Yeah, the girl's a poor actress, but...
- If "Bombshell" loses for Best Musical, does Eileen come up on stage and throw a drink in the winner's face?
- Not just the winner's face -- in Ivy's and Tom's faces too.
- datalounge should teach us about the power of love.
- R588, almost all the major ones are seen given out but I think it's easy to figure out what they are.
As has been revealed here already Derek wins one (sorry, I won't say for what), gets booed and calls the crowd "wankers." OK, here's something which hasn't been revealed until now-Jimmy wins one (again, sorry, but I won't say for what), his face becomes contorted into a hideous mask of self-pity and regret as he sobs over Kyle not being there and you'll be reaching for your vomit bags, not your tissues.
One week to to go, little ones. Hang in there.
- Bellhop, do you have any other interesting gigs or past experiences you could entertain us with? I think I'll miss you more than I'll miss SMASH. I hope you'll stick around. Thanks for your posts.
- Jer wins Actor, Kat wins actress
of course Derek wins for choreography.
- Folks - time to move to the new thread, we don't want to miss anyone.
It was a wonderful journey...
- I hope Kate Baldwin wins for SEESAW. She was ah-mazing.
- REMINDER: Threads are to end at 600 messages.
- Threads on SMASH SEASON 2 - The Final Chapter and
SMASH SEASON 2 - Part 4 already exist.
- the end.