Don clashes with a client.
Pete entertains a guest.
Peggy struggles to motivate her staff.
And Trudy returns this season, with her hypercorrect enunciation that would put even Julie Andrews to shame.
But what about Naomi?
This episode will be directed by Jon Hamm. It will feature lots of Campbell family drama, apparently.
Do you think Ted Chaogh is going to put the moves on Peggy? he seemed hot for her last episode.
Pete will fall down the staircase.
R4 - I did not see that.
Is anyone watching?
It hasn't started yet in central time.
Hoping for some exciting Mother Francis action tonight!
Some Mother Francis woman-on-woman action?
All this "affair" shit is really dull. The meeting was the most interesting thing so far.
Pete was cold to that neighbor he just screwed and don can't help but treat woman as prostitutes.
I hope Peggy get better; her story line seems stale
Love the white lipstick on her secretary!!
There was simulated sex in Hair? Who knew?
Jon Hamm (who directed this episode) sure chose a goofy looking teen to play young Dick.
Hamm is a really good actor's director. Everyone--especially Christina H.--is hitting the subtle points.
Joan sure zinged that guy!
I may have a crush on Bob Benson.
Pete resembles a weasel more in every episode.
Didn't they just use the same actor who played young Dick years ago?
I hate Don flashbacks.
Here in NY the commercial breaks are the worst. Such irritating commercials. And I'm sorry, I'm including the one with that little kid who sings "When You're Smiling" who died shortly afterward.
Yeah, maybe it was, R18, but it made no sense for the whore to call him a good looking kid. He wasn't.
omg, R20 that ad almost made me hate terminally ill children.
[r21]: Sex workers call ugly people "good looking" all the time. Part of their job.
Don ordered an 'old fashioned' which I think is symbolic of him being old fashioned.
R23, young Dick wasn't a prospective client, grow a brain.
[r25]: grown ups learn to not take things too literally. Make an effort!
Mini skirts did not become fashion until pantyhose was invented. Pete's conquest would not have been able to wear stockings and a garter belt without it sticking out of the bottom of her skirt. Big mistake.
Don't fuck with Trudy!
"I'm done" might not technically be an anachronism but it sounds like one on Mad Men.
Pete's house is ugly...even by 1967 standards.
Alison Brie is so good.
This is really melodramatic.
"I will destroy you"?
Is this Llanview?
Roger looked way too orange for NYC in February. He looked like an Oompa Loompa
Ugh, that showkiller James Wolk is on here. Go away!
He's not a good actor, and he looks 10 years older than his alleged real age.
Does Stan show his beefy butt in tight chinos this week?
I am in love with Ken Cosgrove.
Why can't he have a bigger role?
Stan's beefy butt is getting a little TOO beefy for my taste this season. He's really put on the pounds.
An underwhelming episode. The Don/Megan scene about the miscarriage wasn't good. Trudy's decision to terminate the marriage was too abrupt.
R40, way to TOTALLY miss the point. Trudy did not terminate the marriage, just Pete's role in it.
I wasn't paying close enough attention; who was the woman who brought young Dick to the whore house?
His mother, I believe, R42 .
I think it's the step mom. His real mother died in child birth
What was Megan saying about showing her mother's picture and her mother's name being changed in the will? It was regarding her storyline on "To Have And To Hold" .
I just don't understand that plot line.
HUH, R41? Not too swift, are you? She terminated the marriage as it existed.
Loved Peggy's Black secretary with her Star Trek makeup and the blue pantyhose.
Why did no one ever tell me about Quest?
Do they still make it?
You're backtracking, r40. Terminating a marriage suggests divorce, and Trudy will not have that. She has always been more than what she shows, and this scene proved it.
Oh, dear, R41/R49, you're being a tad too technical. Trudie has ended her relationship with Pete based on that one unfortunate incident. I found that abrupt. Trudie loves Pete and I don't think she would go to such extremes so soon.
I didn't like this episode. And I thought Hamm was a terrible director of actors. The scene with Megan and Sylvia was particularly badly acted. It looked like a soap opera scene.
R38 - I loved Ken hitting on Jane in season 2.
Trudy is too proper to admit her marriage is a sham, but I wish for her sake she would dump Pete's ass and move on.
Trudy's scene with Pete ruled the episode tonight.
I agree: otherwise, a little underwhelming. I'm just not feeling Don and M's neighbors in the building, and I don't care. And I think everyone hates the hokey Dick Whitman flashbacks.
Will Ted and Peggy fuck?
Did Peggy deliberately hire her own version of Dawn, the black secretary from Sterling Cooper, so she could feel more like Dawn?
Will Stan put down the donuts and get naked again?
And what is up with Joan these days?
I thought Dick's stepmom was mean and nasty? Wasn't she pissed that she got saddled with her husband's bastard baby?
Of course, DL's idea of high art is the finale of "Dancing with the Stars."
[quote]Loved Peggy's Black secretary with her Star Trek makeup and the blue pantyhose.
Totally hot look, especially the white lipstick!
I'm finding it very difficult to keep watching a series where I find all the characters objectionable. There's no one I like anymore.
Ooops, "feel more like DON." Not Dawn.
She wants to feel UP Dawn!
Trudy wanted Pete to be discrete. She knows he cheats. It's the fact that it was a neighbor that made her kick him out. Kinda like Carmela Soprano. The moment the Russian girl called the house, Tony was outta there.
Totally underwhelming episode and some laughable dialogue. Don and Sylvia being alone at dinner was an amatuerish soap opera contrivance. The whole plot lacks depth and is too soapy for words. Agreed that the Trudy/Pete scenes were the best, again, even if the dialogue wasn't great.
Linda Cardellini (Sylvia) has such beautiful, expressive eyes. Her best moments so far haven't even included dialogue. I wonder if the son from college will show up.
Agree, R64. She's quite lovely.
I loved her (small role) as the love interest in BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, R64. She's not really clicking for me here. And I'm not really sure what Don sees in her.
Sorry to keep beating this dead horse when there is another equine corpse bearing Trudy's name, but I found this from an old Sepinwall review of episode 3.1:
[quote]In the opening moments, we see Don, up late and no doubt aware of what tomorrow will mean to him (and only to him), imagining the circumstances of his own pathetic birth. It's a story his father's hateful wife assuredly told him many times - not to make him feel closer, as Don and Betty try with Sally at episode's end, but to remind him what a terrible burden he is, and what a cosmic joke his entire life is - and in that imagining, we learn that Don is a wish that never turned out quite right for either his biological or adoptive mother. The whore who gave birth to him got her revenge on Dick's father (who had to suffer his wife's resentment until his own death) but didn't live to see it. And the woman who wished and prayed for a child finally got one, but it was one who would be a daily mortification to her.
So is Weiner retconning the stepmother now?
Don always goes for beautiful women, and as a man who yearns for culture (movies, poetry, fiction) he tends to go for intelligent beautiful women for his longer term relationships (Midge, Rachel Mencken, Sally's teacher, Faye) rather than the bimbos he fucks for one-offs. The fact that Sylvia likes Dante should be enough to make her a plausible partner for Don.
Boring episode. The character of Peggy Olson as originally conceived and played would NEVER have evolved into the player she is now. And the entire backstory on Don Draper doesn't begin to work or make sense. Thank God for the actors and production values, who redeem the poor writing.
[quote]The character of Peggy Olson as originally conceived and played would NEVER have evolved into the player she is now.
You're the Norwegian Catholic troll, aren't you?
Eat your wierdo, R69 !
[quote]The character of Peggy Olson as originally conceived and played would NEVER have evolved into the player she is now.
Actually we were explicitly shown that evolution. From being discovered by Freddy, to her showing up at the strip club when they were entertaining a client, to her walking around smoking after hours, to the first time she calls Don by his first name, to her increasingly wanting more recognition from Don. We saw Peggy's evolution quite clearly.
R74 - To her smoking reefer.
That's exactly how Peggy Olson was conceived - as a woman who makes this incredible evolution.
OH GOD DON BACK STORY KILL ME NOW
At the very least Trudy knew that Pete had cheated several years before while she had been away (The German nanny). Her decision was not abrupt.
That's often the deal with rich types--you can cheat on each other, but you cannot cheat with someone in the same social circle (lest it embarrass the cuckolded partner).
That's what caused all the problems in the Von Bulow marriage--they had an "agreement," and then Claus broke it by fucking someone in their Newport circle.
How can the 1950s/1960s milieu look so authentic, but all the Don-as-a-child flashbacks look so Lifetime Original Movie?
Yes, the 20s/30s flashbacks always look shitty. And unlike the rest of the show, the actors in those scenes appear to have been cast in a parking lot somewhere. Or a bus station. And told to provide their own wigs and costumes.
Did anyone think the "rooster" in Don's whorehouse flashback was Ike Godsey from The Waltons? The guy was a dead ringer for him, except obviously far too young.
I was nervous the whole time thinking that Pete or Don would get caught.
It was hot how he was talking to Sylvia in the restaurant how he WAS going to take off her dress that night and saying "I want you and only you."
Trudy was great.
I didn't follow why Megan was feeling guilty about losing the baby.
She felt guilty because when she found out she was pregnant, she didn't want it, and presumably was thinking about getting an abortion -- verboten for a French-Canadian Catholic. And then the baby died. So she felt like she killed it. I think.
Megan felt guilty about losing the baby because she was contemplating aborting it. Sylvia asked her how she could ever consider doing that.
It could have been an interesting moment: two modern women from traditional Catholic backgrounds right in the thick of the sexual revolution. But it didn't really come off.
[quote]How can the 1950s/1960s milieu look so authentic, but all the Don-as-a-child flashbacks look so Lifetime Original Movie?
That's because when you're filming in a studio, it's far easier to make sets convincingly look new (the office, Don's apartment) than look old and run down.
How did Trudy figure out Pete was fucking the neighbor lady? That wasn't entirely clear to me.
What did Megan mean she was "sloppy" in Hawaii and partly attributed it to losing the baby...drinking?
Obviously, she doesn't want anything to interfere in her career...Don doesn't seem to be so crazy about her anymore now that he has his downstairs piece.
I keep waiting for the surgeon to come home unexpectedly.
[quote]What did Megan mean she was "sloppy" in Hawaii and partly attributed it to losing the baby...drinking?
She was sloppy with her birth control, and got pregnant when she and Don had been carefully avoiding a pregnancy because they weren't ready yet to have children.
Never mind... I remembered that when the woman whom Pete fucks comes over after her husband beat her, her husband shouts out something from the street like, "Hey Campbell, she's your problem now."
But I have another question. How could Trudy "destroy" Pete? Many of the men in Pete's office have had divorces (Don, Roger) and survived. I guess SCDP would lose Trudy's father's company, but they're not even their biggest client.
At the very least, she can turn his kid against him.
r91 - Yeah, that seemed a bit of a stretch, although Trudie is pretty resourceful and Pete knows it.
I found it odder that she wanted to keep him in the picture at all instead of searching for a new husband while she's still young and attractive.
r92 - I guess, but is there any reason to think Pete's even interested in his kid?
[quote]I found it odder that she wanted to keep him in the picture at all instead of searching for a new husband while she's still young and attractive.
Trudy wants to raise Tammy in wealthy suburban respectability. It would be hard to get that as a divorcee in 1968--Betty managed it only after she found someone first to run off with who would keep her very much in the style to which she had been accustomed.
If Trudy finds a rich unattached guy in Connecticut who wants to carry her and Tammy away, Pete is toast.
Well, I guess last season when they took the Jaguar guy to the whorehouse and Don told the madam he'd grown up in a whorehouse, he wasn't lying.
Was Timmy, the ketchup man, played by Kip Pardue? It isn't listed on imdb yet.
Isn't Trudy the one with the money in their marriage? I know Pete must make decent money at SCDP, but I thought they needed Trudy's money do buy the home and apartment. And Pete needed that loan from Don when they split off SCDP.
[quote]The scene with Megan and Sylvia was particularly badly acted. It looked like a soap opera scene.
Which kind of added to the blending of soap vs. reality in their conversation, particularly when Sylvia misunderstood Megan's carriage as part of the soap script.
[quote]Pete's conquest would not have been able to wear stockings and a garter belt without it sticking out of the bottom of her skirt.
If I recall correctly, hers wasn't quite a miniskirt. More like a suburban housewife's above-knee length.
[quote]Ooops, "feel more like DON." Not Dawn.
I actually bought your original statement, because of that scene last season where Dawn stayed at Peggy's and Peggy wanted to get to know her better.
[quote]What did you SAY to him?!!
And a somewhat 1960's reaction to a battered woman. Blame the victim - especially if her actions can lead to the oppressor's demise.
[quote]He looked like an Oompa Loompa
Can we retire this incredibly worn-out, go-to quip for lazy comedians?
Kind of a weak episode, too soapy and silly, especially with Don collapsing at the end with the song "Just a Gigolo" playing in the background--and I'm sorry but it's hard not to think of David Lee Roth's version when that song comes on-- but with some really great performances by Sylvia and Trudy. The two of them can act rings around poor Megan, who only has two facial expressions. Jessica just can't act as well as the other women. Moss is always competent, however, but she wasn't given much to do this episode.
All in all, as usual, it's the women who are doing the heavy work, giving the thin story lines (who's fucking who, basically, over and over) depth and texture. Even Peggy's secretary with the puffy lips did a great job.
And then there's Kenny... somewhere between hunky guy and wooden actor. Just never know which way he's going to go.
I'm so over this show. Nothing happens, ever. It's just douchey Jon Hamm brooding for the camera from scene to scene and faux tension.
This shit is dead and over.
Back to The Housewives for you R102.
Funny how Pete's affairs either fall in love or seem u stable ( alexis b. From last season and then the country bumpkin neighbor falling in love after One screw). Whereas Don 's affairs are discrete and intelligent and worldly
Pete ended up fucking Alexis Bledel in real life, good for him. The Pete character is such a sleazebag. He has such a smarmy smile and fake attitude,it was about time he was called out by his wife.
Don is another douche. He's fucking his friend's wife in the same building. No doubt Matt Weiner is trying to tie the bind between Pete and Don in terms of them both literally fucking the girl next door. I can't wit for Don to be caught in flagrante delicto by the doctor. I can't wait for the Doc to turn from a nice Jewish doctor into a raging nut burger.
Yes this episode seemed like a bad soap opera. I was waiting for either a Cassadine or a DiMera to pop up from the dead at a moment's notice......
This show has been soapy from Day One. If you've not noticed it before, you should have. How can it not be soapy? It's about unhappy wealthy white people and their infidelities.
There is literally nobody on this show who is likeable and rootable at this point. Why do people still watch it?
I'm beginning to wonder if the doctor's wife might be our next suicide. it's pretty obvious that with her husband always running off to his patients, and I wonder about that too, she's alone in a very unsatisfying marriage. So I wonder whether she's going to see how impossible her life is, and her guilt about Don, coupled with Megan's basic decency, will consume her. She is definitely into guilt.
Interesting about Jaguar. As an old queen I vaguely remember when Jaguar hit bottom, went bankrupt or almost, and was purchased by Ford when it was limping along. So the concept of making this high performance, exclusive car more accessible to the masses eventually did happen.
Clearly, IMO, Don did what he did for effect, because he hates Mr. Sleazeball. He took the guy's proposal to the extreme, knowing the Jaguar officials wouldn't like it. But it raises the intersting question of the conflict of dealwers with moribund sales and the corporate suits protecting an image.
In general, I think this season is about Don beginning to lose his edge spiralling down the toilet in an alcoholic haze. He has the bravado but not the substance. His style is wearing thin, he is beginning more and more to be desperate. As times change he is more and more about yesterday.
well R7 because the some people don't have the requirement that they "like" and or are able to "root" for characters in order to find a show/book/play/absorbing and entertaining.
It isn't a sporting event and the characters aren't teams.
I am a 100% fan of Mad Men. Last night I felt like I had reached overload. I have had enough of Don and Pete being pigs. It's just become nasty and boring, I would like to see the series move on to something other storyline. The intern is hot - a gay story about him would be great. No chance of that, though, Weiner would veto it.
Also Megan is morphing into Betty in the last episode- frau like house coat and those plaid pants ( I know they were the style but the colors were all Betty).
Really, Meaghan is more like Betty and not the lovely mom substitute Don envisioned. She is worried about appearance, a model/soap actress, and not a deep thinker/intellectual.
Yes, Meaghan is brunette but really his new affair is more on Don's wavelength.
[quote]Clearly, IMO, Don did what he did for effect, because he hates Mr. Sleazeball.
He risked losing the client in doing so, by making them think he was a bit of an idiot.
And it's not as if his crafty plan worked: Mr. Sleazeball was just as pissed off with him as if he had simply said, "No, this isn't the right strategy for Jaguar." If he had done that, the execs (who hire him) would have still thought he was on their wavelength.
[quote]Also Megan is morphing into Betty in the last episode- frau like house coat and those plaid pants ( I know they were the style but the colors were all Betty). Really, Meaghan is more like Betty and not the lovely mom substitute Don envisioned. She is worried about appearance, a model/soap actress, and not a deep thinker/intellectual.
I think that's the point - we repeat our mistakes. And with Betty going brunette and changing up her wardrobe, I wouldn't be surprised to see a scene later this season where we realize that Don "traded in" last year's model for this year's model, which is about to go out of style in his eyes just as Betty did.
R106 Not this soapy.They went over the top with the storyline. The rehead's trick comes back, Pete screws his next door neighbor and Don is fucking is freind's wife who lives on the next floor! Last night it seemed like they were more Edge Of Night than doing a Douglas Sirk or a Sopranos influenced show. Then again the Sopranos was soapy as well.And we all know where Matt Weiner made his name....
Who was Little Don spying on during the sex scene? Was it his pregnant stepmother? I could see Sylvia getting pregnant and jumping off the balcony. Too much pregnancy talk to not have it be a reality. Plus, is Sylvia so Catholic she'd only use rhythm? There were a lot of those in my family. Also a shitload of cousins.
At the last scene, Don falling to the floor, by the door at the drs, was a tie-in to this boyhood experience of looking in the peephole of the door (watching his mom get screwed - who by the way, bears a resemblance to Sylvia)
R115- you are right. And remember Sylvia was 100% anti abortion (which seems odd considering she is cheating on her husband) - and so if shee won't have an abortion, then does she use birth control? She also worried about falling in love? Sounds like something icky is going to happen..
And weird that Sylvia is presented as older than Meagan,,,,
What is going on with the new office guy, Bob? He just seems to suddenly be present at important moments, and has had personal conversations with both Don and Pete. I hope it's not just some lazy exposition device ... like they're going to do something with him at some point.
Do any of you "critics" know what the second circle of Hell is (in Dante's Inferno, which you "critics" might remember, but I doubt it) was the first image in the season's premiere episode?
Well? I'll wait.
Second circle is lust, which fits the episode (although it fits every third episode as well.)
Third circle is gluttony...
[quote]Do any of you "critics" know what the second circle of Hell is (in Dante's Inferno, which you "critics" might remember, but I doubt it)
POMPOUS TWIT ALERT! THIS IS NOT A TEST. POMPOUS TWIT ALERT! THIS IS NOT A TEST. POMPOUS TWIT ALERT! THIS IS NOT A TEST. POMPOUS TWIT ALERT! THIS IS NOT A TEST. POMPOUS TWIT ALERT! THIS IS NOT A TEST.
Don is going to die of lung cancer. Too much foreshadowing in that direction.
Brilliant, r119. The first circle is limbo, and the premiere started with the doctor giving CPR to the doorman. Very smart structure for the season.
If the first circle is Limbo, was Don in limbo while in Hawaii? I remember thinking he was dead in HI or it was a dream sequence and not just because of the opening scene. It was because he never uttered a word until he was at the bar with the service guy/groom.
Excellent recap from Salon. Worth reading for MM addicts.
Loved the "Just A Gigolo" at the end as Don realizes that people know the part he's playing. He's fast becoming a used-up old whore in business and his personal life.
Joan also had a reminder of how she's whored herself out.
The were ALL whores.
Even Don gave the neighbor cash after they fucked.
Thanks R126 at the link. LOve MadMen recaps. If you watch the show with minimal retrospection, yes, it is a soap opera. BUT, there are hidden gems that take this show to a level beyond trite soap.
And, I will always cheer for Peggy, Joan. Trudy.
So is Sylvia squirreling away cash to make a break?
r116, that was his own front door Don collapsed in front of, not the drs. Don and Megan live on the 17th floor, the dr and Sylvia on the 16th.
r117, Sylvia IS a lot older than Megan - she has a son in college. Even if she had him at 18, she's still at least 38 and Megan isn't even 30 (wasn't she, like, 26 when she and Don got married?)
I had thought last season that Trudy knew Pete was going to use the apartment in NYC for fucking other women, so it was nice to see that confirmed. Her reasons for having agreed to it last season were very her.
Given how strenuously she was flirting with the husbands at the end of the dinner at the beginning of the episode, I would not doubt at all if she also is going to carry on on the side now.
This is all a very smart way for Matt Weiner to accommodate Alison Brie's limited schedule (given that she also is appearing on COMMUNITY). Given that COMMUNITY is finally going to be over, I hope we see more of her in the final season. She's a wonderful actress.
ANd R132- Trudy is just a great gal and one of the more likable housewives....
Did Meaghan go to university? I can't recall.... The season opener emphasized that Betty went to Bryn Mawr---so does Meaghan have a comparable education?
I will be curious to know Sylvia's educational background ...
Thank you, #97.
It was killing me that I couldn't place the Heinz guy.
To gain sympathy, I thought Megan was going to tell Don she lost the baby after she fell down the staircase while visiting Don at the agency. I'm still convinced someone gonna fall down those stairs before the season is over. Any mention of staircases in this Dantes Internal you keep talking about?
So the next episode is 3rd Circle of Hell-Gluttony? So guess Betty won't be losing any weight next episode...
R122 you must be the same ray of sunshine that was posting SPAMMING SHILLY MCCUNTLY FRAUBITCH on another thread.
Dial down the caps lock comments, dearie. We're not deaf, just purposefully ignoring you.
Does anyone else think it's possible that the Doc and Sylvia have an agreement of some kind? She's Catholic, opposed to abortion, so probably opposed to birth control and yet has only one college age child. I wonder who's really calling his service when he's darting out to go save lives.
Just speculation on my part but I wonder if he's familiar with the shopping bags in the bathroom trick.
Is no one going to mention "Quest feminine hygiene powder," or Joan telling Herb that she knows he has parts of himself he hasn't seen in years? I laughed out loud at both of those scenes.
Trevor Einhorn, who played Freddie, Frasier's son, made another appearance last night as one of Peggy's copy writers. He used a nice deadpan expression unlike the other two who were overacting a tad.
[quote}Just speculation on my part but I wonder if he's familiar with the shopping bags in the bathroom trick.
Enlighten us r139! What's this?
R141, it seems like Mr. Einhorn might be a gay. There's nothing super-specific about it in his Twitter feed (which hasn't been used for a year). but what is there, seems gay-ish. Not straight.
R142: in Eps. 1, during the fondue party they're discussing a vice squad bust of the Bloomingdale's men's room. Some guy was caught doing this trick.
r143 - Where are you getting that? Seemed pretty neutral to me, except this one:
[quote]Breakfast on 3rd. get cream for my coffee, come back and ladies dog next to me is eating my omelet #goodthingshescute the woman, not the dog
You're right, R145, I jumped the gun.
W&W for r122! It was pompous post.
SCDP has a spy.
Peggy is fired after sleeping with her married boss.
Megan is an actress on a soap opera.
A former employee returns to SCDP.
Pete moves into an apartment, without Trudy.
Betty has an affair with a much younger man.
Don is cheating on Megan with his neighbor's wife.
Peggy and Pete travel to Florida for a funeral.
The doctor keeps getting called away during the most contrived scenes.
Why, R122, you do say the sweetest things, you lamb.
r135 Mia has been posting here for years and has been told repeatedly how to link to a post and she still uses # instead which does not link back the post.
[quote]Joan telling Herb that she knows he has parts of himself he hasn't seen in years?
[quote]Peggy and Pete travel to Florida for a funeral.
Dead baby alert!
I'm hearing that Don gets an evil doppleganger this season and there may be two back-from-the-dead storylines. The finale is supposed to be a nail biter, with a shot of Don (hmmm, or is it his double??) standing at the top of the agency stairs, with an unidentified woman dead at the bottom of the stairs. Is it Sylvia? Joan? Betty? Peggy? Megan? My heart is racing already. Thank you, Mr. Weiner for finally turning this into a full-on Melrose Place melodrama, which is what we fans have been begging for for years. I love my stories!
The episode is not on torrent yet...I wonder why?
R155, yes it has and has been since 5 minutes after airing on Sunday. I know because I downloaded it.
What site did you pull it from. I can't find it on EZTV
"There is literally nobody on this show who is likeable and rootable at this point. Why do people still watch it?"
Joan and Peggy are likeable, Joan more so.
And even Don & Roger have their moments, especially this week w/ Pete by aptly putting him down with the car executives.
Peggy likeble? I find her very shrill, and I know this goes against popular opinion, but I just don't find Moss believeable in the way Peggy is now written. She looks like a little girl playing corporate dress-up. I love Joan, but Hendricks barely gets any airtime.
Personally, I do not find Peggy and Joan to be likable characters. Peggy is the very face of dullness and Joan, while occasionally witty, is just not that compelling. I am not sexually attracted to her at all, though, unlike everyone else who likes her. It takes a lot of restraint for me not to fast forward through all Peggy, Joan and Pete scenes.
Characters I like and root for include Don, Roger, Megan, Sally, the dear departed Miss Blankenship and Anna Draper, Trudy, Mother Francis, Ken Cosgrove Accounts and sometimes Stan.
Everyone else is either awful and/or annoying and/or a non-entity for me.
R161, I don't think we're meant to think of Peggy and Joan as "likeable," I think we're meant to think of them as complex. Which they are. And we root for them to succeed, unlike Betty, who we root to get major karma kickback for being a rotten mother, firing Carla, need I go on?
I don't find either one of those characters to be all that complex either, though. But a lot - I would even say that MOST fans like Peggy and Joan and care about/root for them more than any of the other characters. I'm just not one of those people.
I agree and always have that Betty is a cunt and needs to be killed off the show. I almost had to stop watching during season 2 and 3 because my hatred for the character is so intense. So no, no need to go on.
I don't need to find characters likeable to enjoy a show. I hate nearly every character on Breaking Bad but love the show.
The only likable character on the show is Trudy.
Does anyone else think Megan really had an abortion, hence all the guilt?
Joan is a huge fan favorite among the show's fans, especially among gay men and single women. I think people really admire her sexual and professional self-confidence, and her ability usually to win out in little contretemps with clients and colleagues by the use of a well-timed withering putdown.
I feel mixed about her myself. Her refusal to be nice to Peggy for years always seemed so strange to me--it puzzled me because Peggy was clearly no sexual threat to Joan, and Joan refused to compete with Peggy intellectually. I think later I realized it's actually because she has been raised in such a way as to feel she could never succeed by dint of her mind but always by dint of her looks and her seductiveness, yet she's very smart herself (as we saw in the episode where she read the TV scripts for Harry and did a better job at it than he did): she just could not IMAGINE getting ahead in that way because she was not raised to do so, but she's been envious that Peggy is getting ahead by dint of her intelligence.
These days, though, both women are successful, and they also bonded at the end of season four (finally) by dint of their incredulity at Don's marriage to Megan.
Three "dints" in one post. R166 wins!
Dr Rosen is aware that Don is banging his wife. He is using Don to keep her 'busy.' Probably she knows he is out there fooling around, too.
Most importantly - we need more Peggy! Her boss does seem to have the hots for her. Anyone seen Peggy/Elisabeth Moss on "Top of the Lake"?
[quote]Three "dints" in one post. [R166] wins!
Well, just call me Dinty Moore!
Meagan definately had an abortion! She wanted nothing to get in the way of her career.
Oh no you dint!
It's obvious Dr. Rosen's having an affair & was expecting the calls from his service as a ruse to leave.....no surgeon in his right mind would drink alcohol knowing he was 'on-call' & may have to peform surgery (even in the swinging 60s).
Megan didn't have an abortion. Christ, you morons are WORSE than the Norwegian Catholic/Bay Ridge bitches.
but is he having an affair with a guy or girl?
You all will be shocked (SHOCKED!!) when you find out who Dr Rosen is sleeping with.
R166 is henceforth known as Dinty Moore
Maybe Dr. Rosen is sleeping with the blonde psychiatrist Don used to date?
So is Dr.Rosen sleeping with Sal?
Who is the former SCDP employee that returns? Peggy since she gets fired? Sal?
Wow! It would be fun if Dr Rosen was having an affair with Don's ex, "Dr Faye Miller/Cara Buono." Or with Sal! Miss them both!
Megan is MM's most annoying character (ever). Megan prob knows Don is out catting around, and could care less! Another fun thing would be if Dr Rosen had helped Megan out with that unplanned preggers event.
Analysis of Don's flashback to his youth (when he lived in a whorehouse). Believe this shows that to him, women hardly matter.
Peggy wasn't fired, R181. She left willingly to take a better position with more personal opportunities. Don kissed her hand when she resigned.
That being said, I hope it is Sal. I doubt it's Paul since we already saw what happened to him, and I don't think it'd be that douche Joey or any other random outlier who already fulfilled their role on the show. I can't think of who else it would be.
It would kind of suck to see Sal be put in the position of working under Don again after how Don treated him, but if he does end up back at SCDP I'm sure things will be appropriately frosty between them. The audience has been clamoring to have Sal come back since he left and I don't think Weiner will leave us hanging.
R183, spoilers say Peggy loses her job after sleeping with her married boss.
[quote]spoilers say Peggy loses her job after sleeping with her married boss.
Second circle is mincing prisspots, R119
Yes, thank you, R185. If you really need attention this badly, you could always just slit your wrists.
Alison Brie was wonderful in this episode.
Things get really screwy when I quit "To Have and To Hold" because it's interfering with my work as a corporate spy.
R114 doesn't know their soaps. If this was "The Edge of Night," we'd have police shootouts, murders, villains, serial killers and clever plot twists at the forefront with romance in the background.
R186 & R188, I guess you missed that long spoiler post at R148.
R148 - where did you get your spoiler info? I always thought the corporate spy meme was a DL joke- and now it turns out to be true?
R180- Bingo! I really believe Dr. Rosen is gay - thus the foreshadowing about the furtive sex in Bloomingdales at the cocktail party in the season opener...
R161- Yes Anna Draper is definitely the most likeable character...
Dr. Rosen is not gay. The subject was brought up to show the changing mores of the time and that it was now considered appropriate dinner/cocktail conversation. Besides, in the first episode, he was shown checking out one of the secretaries in Don's office.
r148 is obviously just fucking around with her "spoilers." Half the shit she mentioned already happened before she posted, and then there's dumb stuff like the "spy," which has been joked about here for years.
Last episode Don's black secretary acted like she knew the doctor, maybe he is having an affair with her?
It won't be Sal. Sal was an illustrator working towards commercial producer, not an advertiser or copywriter. I think Weiner will DELIGHT in leaving us hanging.
[quote]Peggy wasn't fired,
I think r181 was speculating that Peggy WILL be fired from her current position.
r197, I bet she's planning to fling him down the SCDP staircase at the earliest opportunity.
[quote]then there's dumb stuff like the "spy," which has been joked about here for years.
Actually, Stan spilling 'the beans' to Peggy about Heinz may well get him in shit... technically it makes him a spy.
Please post SPOILERS in a separate thread. Some people are just assholes.
I think Benson is the spy.
The only really nice people on the show so far: Anna, Carla, Sal, Faye, Allison, Dawn, Dr. Rosen (though we've not seen enough of the latter two yet to really tell). And, based on what little we saw of her, Dr. Edna.
Megan (annoying as she is) used to be among them, but she was pretty bitchy this weekend firing the maid. Ken was an asshole the first season, but he seems pretty nice now. Freddie Rumsen was nice the first few seasons, though he became pretty sexist towards Peggy when he came back.
Trudy is pretty nice, but we've seen she's something of a snob in earlier seasons.
I have a hunch that Weiner will start foreshadowing Don's balcony again by mid-season. Someone has got to fall over.
r203, what about Burt? Wonder if they will ever show his male companion?
Dawn will trip Dr. Rosen down the SCDP staircase, and when he gets to the bottom, he will then rebound out the window of the Time-Life building. What few people realize is that the Drapers' apartment building, which looks to be further uptown on the UES, is actually right across the street from the T-L Bldg., so Dr. Rosen after crashing through the SCDP window will sail across the street, bounce off the Drapers' balcony, and then fall to a horrible death below.
Dawn, screaming, "WHAT HAVE I DONE???" will race to the elevator doors to try to get to the street below, but will tumble down into the open shaft as the doors open with no elevator cab behind them.
Megan, visiting the office again and taking secret photographs once again in her secret position as Ted Chaogh's corporate spy, will document the whole thing. She will show the photos to Sally just to mess with her mind, and Sally with run off to Woodstock the next year to be one of the only fourteen year-old participants.
Thus will all the Datalounge predictions be fulfilled.
r206, again, please don't post spoilers in this thread. Many thanks.
Ted is already forcing Peggy to run with the ketchup get, based on inside info. Quote, they underestimated you, they are the enemy.
Some of you are idiots re R148. The way Matthew Weiner holds so much close to his chest, most spoilers are not true.
[quote]The only really nice people on the show so far: Anna, Carla, Sal, Faye, Allison, Dawn, Dr. Rosen (though we've not seen enough of the latter two yet to really tell). And, based on what little we saw of her, Dr. Edna.
I can't believe you'll say a children-insensitive, home-wrecking career barracuda like Faye is nice but then leave me out. Is it that my baby dolls are too risqué?
LOL r206 and r207
WHY do we never talk about Trudy, Pete's wife?
She really erupted in the last episode, but I've always found her to be likely the most moral character on the show. Also, her over-the-top camp makes me love her. She talks as if she's a 75 year old woman, wants the perfect house, perfect family, etc..
I hope we see more of her, I think she's fucking fabulous.
[quote]WHY do we never talk about Trudy, Pete's wife?
I thought you were being facetious until I read the rest of your post.
Sometimes it seems ALL we talk about is Trudy! She's the character with the most DL exposure per air time.
I am not as impressed with Trudy because she reminds me of my sister-in-law. She was the only 20 something I knew who said things like "oh my heart".
Trudy is Lady Macbeth. How does nobody see this?
Could a contributing poster here PLEASE start a thread entitled 'Mad Men - Spoilers Included' ?
I'm sick of the whining frau bitch who keeps losing her shit at vague suggestions which may or may not be spoilers.
And the ass who keeps posting the spoilers without warning people first is irritating also.
Please post a thread where spoilers, true or not can be openly posted.
R213, maybe it's because I don't read the MM threads religiously, but I hadn't realized 'we' talk about Trudy so much. I haven't noticed anything about her at all lately until the last couple of days.
She's crazy campy though and I'd like to see more of it. Perhaps they'll develop her as a sort of slightly crazed housewife who goes into rages periodically... I could see her being written somewhere between the Brea character on Desperate Housewives and Beverly (Kathleen Turner) from Serial Mom.
[quote]The way Matthew Weiner holds so much close to his chest, most spoilers are not true.
Actually we did have a good source for spoilers here. Someone on DL obviously works for MM.
Let's all go to the Mad Men Spoilers thread... Where spoilers be heard, some of them possibly true.
Please keep this thread spoiler and speculation free... although that's not as fun.
Maybe once Community gets canceled, we'll see more of Trudy.
[quote] DL's idea of high art is the finale of "Dancing with the Stars."
Ooooh, how cutting!
Damn we sure have a shitload of judgmental frau attitude here.
I find quite a number of characters complex and interesting. The simplistic attitude that cheating makes you a "baaaaad" person altogether is, well, too simplistic and unreal. Makes you wonder who the hell is posting at a website for people who should be beyond that way of thinking.
And, you know what? Life is a damn soap opera.
[quote] Peggy and Pete travel to Florida for a funeral
Hmmm. Maybe dead baby or maybe dead adoptive parents.
Forgot to add, Trudy is mostly annoying to me. She's trying to live a dream life and she will shape her world and the people in it to fit that dream life. That usually has little to do with love.
Vincent Kartheiser (Pete) is playing Mr. Darcy in a stage production of Pride and Prejudice at the Tyrone Guthrie Theater from July 12-September 1. Not exactly a role I can envision him playing.
Is the guy who wrote the faux Don and Sal script still hanging around these parts?
R212 I love Trudy. I do hope her role expands.
I like Don Draper.
He's empty on the inside. Successful but, while he wants success, at the same time it's not what he wants. He wants something more meaningful. But he doesn't just want it, he wants to feel it.
I think he's spent so much time selling others on what they want, what emotions they want to feel, etc., and being such a master at that manipulation, that he now sees through almost everything he could take enjoyment from. Maybe it's like the movie reviewer who can no longer watch a movie because all he sees are the beats, tick by tick, too predictable. But here's it's worse because it's about life and meaning. As a result, he doesn't find enjoyment in things he should and wants to enjoy. But there's more to him than that, because just being bitter/jaded could get old/boring.
There's a depth to his longing and his own self, but he doesn't have the ability to express it meaningfully, and/or he doesn't have the ability to do anything about it. In a way, and I know this is a little bit of a stretch, but in a way it feels familiar to Hank Moody.
Hank is different in most ways. But he's a fuck up who wants the happy, simple life and just cannot get there. So he's always trying but always messing it up, and that constant effort and sincerity with the constant failing, I find it interesting. With Don, I feel like things are getting worse for him by season, so I have this sense of tension, that we're building toward something. We're near the end of the show, so I would guess we're getting to that point.
Anyway, so that's Don. I am intrigued by him. He should be shallow, but he's not. He should be happy, but he's not. He should be capable enough to look within, but he's not. It keeps me curious. I enjoy the cast well enough, but I like them more so because of the setting. I have always liked the idea of the 60s/70s, but here it's so different from how I've always thought of it.
Here we have the middle/upper class business world of that era, not the younger, rebellious hippies or whatever. In a way, it makes me curious what Don would be like had he grown up in that, had he not been the good soldier (literally and symbolically), and embraced that free-spirited attitude from the start. I find the contrast between the older generation, particularly Roger, and Don, to be interesting. I get the sense that they are much alike, but Don doesn't enjoy their commonalities.
I also enjoy the pacing. It's slow, it gives you space to soak up the scenes. Even the way they talk -- not rapid fire, but filled with empty space. And then, of course, the "accuracy" of the sexism and racism, I think, adds an interest to it all. Anyway... maybe this is somewhat wrong. But I'm trying to be thoughtful about what it is I like, and these are the first thoughts to pop to mind without really considering the ideas or reading up on others' thoughts and using that to add clarity to mine.
Maybe it's my Italian heritage but I am loving Linda Cardellini in this.
r227: tl; dr
I liked your post r227. I agree, I like Don.
But I am a former child of abuse and the working class, though, so I identify with him in ways that it seems most people who obviously had idyllic (or near-so) childhood existences cannot.
[quote]Sometimes it seems ALL we talk about is Trudy! She's the character with the most DL exposure per air time.
Do me a favor. Imagine something. It's Don and Sal. They're kissing. Deep and hard kissing. Then they strip. They fuck. Don is on all fours screaming "Cum in my ass, Sal!" Sal obliges.
I don't have the patience to read such long posts.
Sorry, forgot to include the fact that the Tyrone Guthrie Theater is in Minneapolis.
R229 - I love Linda Cardellini too.
This IS the spoilers thread. Go start a non-spoiler thread if you want.