Two new studies of PC sales were released today. Here are some of the headlines from various news sources from Google News:
"Windows 8 causes the most precipitous PC decline in history."
"PCs hit by an ugly quarterly drop as Windows 8 flops"
"Windows 8 blamed as PC market tumbles 14%"
"Windows 8 — Disappointing Usability for Both Novice and Power Users
Summary: Hidden features, reduced discoverability, cognitive overhead from dual environments, and reduced power from a single-window UI and low information density. Too bad."
So, if I'm trying to get a cheap desk top, should I get one with Windows 7? And no, I'm not switching to Mac.
Serious question, because I have never bought a PC – do you get to choose which operating system you want loaded on your new computer?
Get a Mac, r2.
Windows 8 is shitty.
Yep, Windows 8 is a bigger flop than Vista - at least with Vista you could still navagate things easily.
W8 was a STUPID idea - nobody wants to learn all that shit. Have they not heard the saying "if it ain't broke. Then don't fix it"? This was just another stupid gimmick that flopped.
Can someone help me? I have adware on my Iphone that redirects me to a game every time I try to browse. Is there any way to remove this from my phone?
Yeah, I'm sure the drop in PC sales is due to Windows 8 and not the fact that almost everyone has a tablet, a smartphone or both.
You all sound like a bunch of cranky old people. And, no, I'm not some youngster. I'm in my mid 30s and you all still sound old.
"Oh no, Ethel, they went and moved my buttons!"
Well, here we are, Doesn't getting anymore obvious than that. UNBELIEVEABLE!
R8 = angry MS employee
Windows 8 is actually pretty neat - I like it better than 7 alone for the fact that it is much easier to find files. PC sales are declining because people are moving to mobile, period. Desktops also tend to last longer than laptops and tablets, so it's a double whammy.
i think the biggest problem is 80% of users don't realize they dont really do anything which requires/justifies the Desktop, they can stay in Metro. The catch is they dont know/understand Metro, they only know Desktop.
If you could live on an ipad, you can live in Metro.
My laptop is about to die. Cheap laptop from Best Buy. I've had it nearly 5 years. Windows Vista, Ugh. I really only use my computer to use the internet, use Windows Media Player, and word processing. I'm not a gamer, nor do I do anything else that requires superior computing power.
I have no identity over computers/phones/tablets as do some people. I've always had PCs, yet have always had iPhones.
I want to buy a new computer and a PC would easily be the cheapest, which is a huge concern since, again, I'm not an intense computer user.
I just absolutely cannot bring myself to get a Windows 8 PC. It's not that I don't think that it could end up being OK. But, I just can't take the risk. It just doesn't seem "right." I've read tons of reviews. Many say Windows 8 is fine, others say that it sucks, still other say that it can be very good with the right fixes (paid and free). But, hardly any reviews actually say that Windows 8 is great on its own. that worries me.
I really don't know what to do. Just looking at the interface I get nervous. I want to be open minded and not a "get off of my lawn" type, but I don't want to waste 500 or 600 or 700+ dollars.
Why does Windows still even exist? Why does stupid Microsoft still dominate the interwebs? Mac is close to taking over, but it's not happening fast enough.
I got a new PC on Ebay. The seller is a techie who builds them himself. Windows XP, the most user friendly OS, 3G RAM, 2.9 processor, 500GB. $349.
Get an iPad.
Sent From My iPad
I have an ipad but i still use my desktop and laptop because you can not view/play anything that uses flash ipad! The lame app I purchased that was supposed to allow me to use flash is unstable.
Dell still sells windows 7 PCs.
Macs rule. Seriously. Sensational way for older people to get with the times. Seriously. They are very user-friendly. Any entry-level laptop or desktop is fine.
[quote]Serious question, because I have never bought a PC – do you get to choose which operating system you want loaded on your new computer?
Basically, no. Commodity PCs almost always come with Windows preinstalled. You are then free to nuke that and install whatever freely available OS you choose: Linux, a BSD, Solaris, whatever.
Now, on occasion you'll find super cheap PCs at Walmart with a very dumbed down version of Linux preinstalled. It is possible to buy cheap PCs with nothing preinstalled, or buy the components to build your own at someplace like MicroCenter or Fry's, but at your typical Best Buy this is not what you'll find. It's Windows or nothing.
[quote]Why does Windows still even exist? Why does stupid Microsoft still dominate the interwebs?
Microsoft's dominance isn't on the Internet; it's in Office and Exchange. Every business on Earth has become dependent on Office.
I have a new HP desk top with Windows 8. I am ignorant and did not think I would be able to learn to use it. It was easy, I love the browser.
I have a macbook but have always preferred my Windows based desktops.
[quote]Every business on Earth has become dependent on Office.
Not ours. We are an all Mac office. Up $1 million over last year, moving to a bigger facility next month because we have outgrown this one.
R22, you are a very small minority.
I see Microsoft offering W7 again for PCs in the near future.
If Microsoft would give me a Surface Pro tablet computer, I would use it for a awhile and write an honest review.
But since most likely pigs will be flying around before that happens, I think I'll just stick with my iPad mini.
[quote]Yep, Windows 8 is a bigger flop than Vista - at least with Vista you could still navagate things easily.
It's actually not. Vista had serious problems with performance, bugs, crashes, and inability to run on common hardware at the time.
Windows 8 runs super-fast on all existing hardware, has few significant bugs or any other issue. It's just a UI change that nobody wants to take the time to learn, and that Microsoft really bungled in educating users about.
It's perfectly usable, and in fact, is a better Win7 than Win7 for desktop users, once you learn how to get around without the start menu.
But old habits die hard, and rather than blame their resistence to or inability to change, they blame the software. It ain't the first time, or even unique to Microsoft.
Other industry monitors and analysts aren't so quick to blame Windows 8... and puts a lot of blame squarely on manufacturers for not providing compelling hardware that can even take advantage of what Windows 8 has to offer (or at price-points customers are willing to pay). The reality is, most people have what works for them already, and PC-sales wouldn't have been any better if Win8 hadn't shipped, and everything still came with Win7.
R13, if Windows 7 was fine for you, then Windows 8 will be too. Those saying "it sucks" generally have no clue what they're talking about. At least I have yet to meet anyone whose bitching is actually based on reality. It's more about "how dare you change anything that I'm used to?!?" ... which in those cases they shouldn't upgrade and should just use Windows 7 and stop whining.
Given your light usage, you can probably get by with a really light laptop or tablet with windows 8. The touch-screen makes things FAR easier to use for casual use. You just need to spend a few days coming up to speed, but it really sounds like you don't need a full PC, but probably want something a bit better than an iPad.
I use Windows 8 every day. There's nothing wrong with it fundamentally. The only thing "wrong" is that it askes you to make a few changes in your basic habits... instead of looking over here for X, you look over there. There's nothing you can do in Win7 you can't do in Win8, and Win8 has a LOT of things you can't do in Win7, and is a LOT faster and more stable as well.
[quote]Serious question, because I have never bought a PC – do you get to choose which operating system you want loaded on your new computer?
R20 is right ("Basically, no.") with respect to the PCs you can get at Best Buy and Costco; you take what you get, and what they currently have is mostly Windows 8. But we just ordered ours from HP and specifically requested Windows 7. The tech who assisted us was incredibly helpful and made a point of saying that he would not recommend Windows 8 to anyone without having them first go through a tutorial to get used to its feel. We went with Windows 7 and are thrilled.
[quote]Why does Windows still even exist? Why does stupid Microsoft still dominate the interwebs? Mac is close to taking over, but it's not happening fast enough.
Macs have at most 10% of the market.
iPads are taking over, and Android phones are taking over (having many times the market of the iPhone), but on the desktop, Windows still rules.
The only issues is that the Desktop is "dying" as more people go smaller and more mobile. Win8 and Surface are MS's late attempt to get in on the wave of the future. It remains to be seen if they succeed.
But let's be clear here: the "disappointing" Win8 sales are still as much as Mac OS X has ever shipped in history. A little perspective here.
[quote]I got a new PC on Ebay. The seller is a techie who builds them himself. Windows XP, the most user friendly OS, 3G RAM, 2.9 processor, 500GB. $349.
Windows XP is ancient, unstable (compared to Win7 or Win8), insecure (compared to Win7 or Win8), doesn't support modern hardware, and is actually slower than Win8.
It's also not any more 'user friendly' (there's lots of argumetn that Win7 is vastly superior in usability, for example), you're just used to it.
Oh yeah, and all support, including new security patches, ends this year. Leaving you with a dinosaur of an OS that more and more modern software simply won't run on.
Windows XP, the "IE 6" of Operating Systems.
Anyone who gets a new XP computer (or frankly, anyone still running XP) is someone worth laughing and pointing at. Luddite extraordinare!
[quote]I have an ipad but i still use my desktop and laptop because you can not view/play anything that uses flash ipad! The lame app I purchased that was supposed to allow me to use flash is unstable.
Microsoft Surface will run flash sites in browsers, and costs about the same, but has more power.
The only problem is that it has a lot fewer options (both number and in quality) when it comes to apps. This is changing, but probably not fast enough.
The Microsoft Surface Pro costs more, but can also run any Windows app you care to throw at it, installing anything you want on the desktop as well as with the cool touch UI. And it syncs with your Win8 laptop or desktop transparently, making maintenance and "manual syncing" nonexistant.
I am not running into what I call "Flash blocks" nearly as much as I used to.
Website programmers are getting the message that HTML5 is the way to go. Retailers, especially, make their sites friendly to all comers because they want your money.
When I do hit a site that Flash-centric, I just close the page a move on. That site is not worth my time, or my money if they're selling something.
I think over time this issue will become a moot point.
All websites either want your traffic or your money and they would be out of business soon throwing away 15% of the potential market.
I have an ipad and an iphone but I needed a PC in order to do things like upload, store and send photos taken with my camera camera (as opposed to my ipad camera) and to upload music from CDs onto my phone. I ordered a PC in 10 minutes from Dell's site 2 weeks ago. It came with Windows 8, about which I knew nothing.
It is horrible. I still don't know how to do basic things like open a new, blank window on my browser. I manage to shut the PC off, but can't tell you how. I go through a gazillion steps, crossing my fingers that I'm on the right track.
In my imagination, I picture Windows 8 to have been devised in one of those Monty Python boardrooms, where meetings are called for the purpose of "putting things on top of other things."
So get a Mac Mini for the price of the Dell and use your old PC's display.
Then you can " ...upload, store and send photos taken with my camera camera ."
My 9th grade son was told yesterday that he will no longer need to bring textbooks to class in 10th grade. The school is giving them ipads which will have the texts loaded onto them.
There goes 20 lbs worth of books he's been lugging around in his backpack for years.
I neighbor of mine is retiring this year -- a few early -- because his company had the state contract to supply school books to school districts across the state.
He said it's the twilight of an era and he was leaving in the nick of time. I said it must be like the owner of a chain of livery stables in 1901. He said, "Pretty much!"
Intel factories signal Windows 8, PC doldrums
Intel isn't churning out chips at the usual rate, reflecting the PC market's downturn and the slow uptake of Windows 8, according to an analyst.
Intel's factory utilization is down around 60 percent, well below normal, said Jim McGregor, principal analyst for Phoenix based Tirias Research, in a phone interview. The news was first reported at ITWorld.
"A lot of this started in September when holiday shipments of PCs didn't go the way they expected," McGregor said. "That [60 percent utilization rate] is increasing as they burn off inventory. But they're still going to have a challenge."
The problem for Intel, the world's largest chip manufacturer, is that idle plants and idle production lines cost the company lots of money. Intel's newest factory in Arizona is not being utilized, according to McGregor....
"[Intel's] thinking was, at the end of 2012 we got the first true ultrabooks coming out, that's going to generate a lot of demand. And we've got Windows 8 coming out and that's also going to generate lots of demand. And we've got design wins in mobile."
"Well, guess what, three strikes," McGregor said, referring to the fact that none of those scenarios turned out as forecast.
Microsoft just keeps making its already putrid software worse and worse.
[quote]It is horrible.
It's not horrible.
Did you get a touch-screen or not?
[quote]I still don't know how to do basic things like open a new, blank window on my browser.
You do it the same way you do in Windows 7.
[quote]I manage to shut the PC off, but can't tell you how.
Push the power button? Gee, that's difficult.
[quote]I go through a gazillion steps, crossing my fingers that I'm on the right track.
Most things in Win8 take fewer steps.
Look, if you're having problems, just ask specific questions, and I can help you out. All I need to know is if you have a touch screen or not, and whether you use a trackpad or a keyboard and mouse (or both).
I still use Windows XP. I have an iPad but I can't do any work on it. The only thing it's good for is surfing the net and I have no interest in games. How can you work on an iPad when you can only have one app open at a time and they are a PITA to type on? Also, how do you manage files on one?
You *can't* manage files on an iPad.
[bold]The Real Reason No One's Buying PCs Anymore: They've Gotten Too Good[/bold]
PC sales suffered their steepest decline in history last quarter, plummeting 14 percent worldwide, according to a report from market research firm IDC. As the Statista chart below shows, the malaise hit every major manufacturer except Lenovo, whose sales were flat. HP and Acer had the steepest drops.
Why is this happening? There are two prevailing theories. One is that it’s Microsoft’s fault. Historically, when Redmond releases a new version of Windows, PC sales spike as people upgrade their machines to take advantage of the fresh software. But with Windows 8, that hasn’t happened. That may because the radical redesign is confusing. A year ago, my colleague Farhad Manjoo predicted, “You’ll hate Windows 8.” Some analysts speculate that people may even hate it so much that they’re resisting buying a new machine just to avoid it. There may be some truth to that. We'll know more once Apple releases its quarterly earnings on April 23.
The second theory for PCs’ sales decline is that, in short, the PC is dead. The media say this at least a couple times a year, and the latest wave of pronouncments includes obituaries from Salon and ReadWriteWeb. The idea is that, with people doing so much computing on their smartphones and tablets these days, they have no need for their old workhorse desktop or laptop anymore.
It's certainly true that people are increasingly spending money on new tablets and smartphones rather than new computers. But reports of the PC's demise are grossly exaggerated. If the PC is dead, what am I typing this on? If the PC is dead, what are office-workers all over the world sitting in front of all day while they work? The reason people aren’t buying new PCs isn’t that they don’t need a PC. It’s that, for the most part, they’re getting along just fine with the one they already have.
In the past, you had to replace your computer every few years or else it would become hopelessly bogged down trying to deal with the latest desktop applications, operating systems, and Internet technologies. But thanks to Moore’s Law, your average PC’s processing power now exceeds most people’s daily needs by a healthy margin. Meanwhile, the rise of the cloud has reduced the need for extra memory. And as ZDNet’s Simon Bisson explains in depth, a strategic shift by Microsoft in recent years has meant that you no longer need to buy a new machine in order to take advantage of each new operating system. The result is that PCs have become more durable than smartphones and tablets, which are still puny enough in their powers that you have to upgrade them regularly.
PC makers probably didn’t mean for that to happen, but there you have it. They're a victim of unplanned non-obsolescence.
More evidence it's the PC-makers instead of Windows 8: Lenovo's sales are doing fine.
I don't even attempt to do any big work on my iPad. It's a handy, portable entertainment and communications device. That's what I bought it for!
I don't think tablets were developed for heavy computing, managing files, creating spreadsheets, and the like. more power to you if you want to use it as such, but then you going to have to get a Bluetooth keyboard.
Screw that – get a laptop or continue to use a desktop for that shit.
At least PC's allow you to install earlier versions of Windows if you don't like the current version! Not so with Macs. I, for one, fucking hate Mountain Lion, but if that's what the Mac ships with--you can't install an earlier operating system! You're locked in. It's absolutely fucking maddening. So now I must either continue to use an older Mac (praying it doesn't die on me) or go back to using a PC.
R44, I would like to go back to either System 6 or 7 on Mac, whichever one it was I used with Word 5.0a. Of course, I'd have to get one of those ancient one-box units again, too.
I think you should go back to using a PC, r44. These computers were made for the likes of you.
I use a Surface Pro. The screen cover IS the keyboard. It stands up when using the keyboard, like a laptop. It has Office 2013 installed. It also has voice-recognition and excellent hand-writing recognition built in. I can get a lot of work done on it. It's great for note-taking (with a pen), sketching and drawing, as well as typing and dictating.
And it's a tablet.
And it's a full computer... I can install our company's enterprise software, complete with SQL Server, web server, and all utilities and apps and carry it around with me on a tablet. I can also install development environments, though the screen is a little small to do anything too complex.
It's a tablet. It's a laptop. It's a full blown 64-bit professional server. All in one. And it transparently and automatically syncs with my desktop and laptop, and even my Nokia phone... take a picture on my phone, and seconds later it's "just there" on my Surface Pro. Need a document from my PC when I'm on the road? No problem... the tablet can see all my files on my home PC (providing I leave it on, which I do). Just grab it. Or save it to the cloud and I don't even need to leave the PC on.
The iPad can't touch it.
Knock yourself out, r47.
Oh yeah, and it comes with free streaming Xbox Music for six months, and 7GB of free cloud storage (plus 3GB for buying a Surface, plus another 20GB free for buying Office 365).
Gosh, how much was all that, r47 r49?
How can you manage files on an iPad, R40?
More bad news for Windows 8.
What say you, Microsoft Troll?
Maybe I'm an old fogey. I love my iPad for on the go stuff, hanging out, reading. But, I also love having a desktop with a big ass screen for my home office and a laptop for mobile office stuff, like when I'm traveling.
I was a Mac holdout for years. Swore by my PC, if only on principle alone. Refused to be a sheep. Finally drank the kool-aid about two years and got a Macbook Pro. Never looked back. Now, I find people who have all these PC problems rather silly, all flapping their arms about trying to solve this Window problem and that virus problem. What a silly waste of time and energy and money.
Macs are vastly superior computers in every respect. I would never dream of owning a PC again. Why? You can do everything on a Mac that you can on a PC (but not the reverse!) Macs RUN Windows programs.
Now, I DO think there are a lot of phones out there that compete with the iPhone and perhaps are even better. But as far as computers? No comparison.
I just bought a new iMac. Got 7 years out of the previous one. Also have an iPod, a MacBook and an iPhone.
The iPad has had the biggest impact on how I use computers. I'm on it now. I use it a lot more than I ever expected. I don't see myself buying another laptop again. I use the iPad for pretty much everything I used the laptop for. It's a lot more portable and does everything I needed the laptop for.
I don't see myself abandoning the desktop anytime soon though I do digital photography and use photoshop a lot. A laptop doesn't cut it for photoshop as far as I'm concerned.
[quote]Now, I find people who have all these PC problems rather silly, all flapping their arms about trying to solve this Window problem and that virus problem. What a silly waste of time and energy and money.
And yet my Mac-using friends bitch just as much (and far more than me) about the problems they have with their Macs, all the time they waste at the Genius bar, etc. I have one friend who, on two separate Macs (laptop, desktop) could never reliably print anything. It was never a problem on his Windows box before the Macs... he finally went back to a Windows PC (Windows 8 touch-screen all-in-one), and vastly prefers it now.
[quote]Macs are vastly superior computers in every respect.
Obviously untrue. Windows PCs have far more options, more hardware choices, more software choices, and can be configured any way you want to configure them.
And almost every phone is better than an iPhone at this point (both Android and Windows Phones have more features, better cameras and screens, and features like NFC). iPhones are comparatively limited and boring... like most Apple things, they're "one-size-fits-all", which means it doesn't really fit most people very well.
You couldn't pay me to use a Mac, or send my money to Apple at this point. Yes, I've used them. I hate the limitations every time I turn around.
r58 is 58 years old with elderly friends who bitch that they can't find the ON button.
Oh yeah, Macs have limitations. violent eye roll. That's what Apple is all about. Limitations. Uh huh.
Hey rR58, let me edit my post and say that FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE ONLY, Macs are vastly superior computers. I have never had those problems your "Mac using friends" have had with their Macs.
There is always a small subset of people out there to disprove any generality or truism, though. How funny they are all YOUR friends, R58.
To each his own. I shall continue using my Rolls Royce of computers, seamlessly, on the information superhighway, with virtually NO problems and going on two years now. I have never found one thing that I could not do on a Mac that could be done on a PC. Not one. But, hey, that's just me.
There is no Microsoft® Store in my state, but we do have a Best Buy across town.
Can I go there to see a Surface™ Tablet by Microsoft Corporation?
I should not sneer at something from afar.
Instead, I need to get up close and personal, touch it, feel it, gawk at it, compare and contrast it -- and THEN sneer at it.
And I'll wash my hands with carbolic soap after touching it.
That's fine, R60. And I'll continue to use my superior computers... faster, brighter, better, with more options... with absolutely zero of the problems that Mac users INSIST I must be having.
Not everyone wants to play in a monopolistic walled-garden where one size must fit all, and backwards compatibility doesn't matter, and everything is locked down tight.
Virtually all of the slams against Windows that I've seen are way over-blown or no longer applicable (Mac-bots love to slam Windows XP and compare it to modern OS X for some reason ... they get off on making comparisons of their current OSs with ten year old Windows OSs). And most of the claims about the superiority of Macs are JUST as over-blown. This is all I'm saying.
For people like R32 who are having difficulties, this link is for you:
[bold]50 Windows 8 hints and tips to help you get more from your OS[/bold]
And R61, you should be able to see and buy Surface tablets at Best Buy and Staples, as well as Microsoft Stores (physical and on-line).
Here is a tip for you frustrated Windows 8 power users.
In Windows 8, god mode is just a special folder that contains links to all of the control panel and configuration settings.
Easy to install and very useful.