Man no longer allowed to visit husband at KC hospital
LEE’S SUMMIT, Mo. — A Lee’s Summit man is fighting a restraining order that he says was issued against him after he says he was arrested for refusing to leave the bedside of his sick partner.
Roger Gorley went to visit his partner, Allen at Research Medical Center, 2316 E. Meyer Blvd., Tuesday afternoon.
He says when he got there, a member of Allen’s family asked him to leave.
When Gorley refused, he says hospital security forcibly removed him from the property and put him in handcuffs.
“I was not recognized as being the husband, I wasn’t recognized as being the partner,” Gorley said.
While not legally recognized as a couple in Missouri, Gorley says he and his partner Allen have been in a civil union for nearly five years, and make medical decisions for each other.
He says the nurse refused to verify they also share joint Power of Attorney.
“She didn’t even bother to go look it up to check into it,” Gorley said. “He’s been at the psychiatric unit part several times.”
Research Medical Center says it can’t talk specifically about this case, but in a statement said:
We believe involving the family is an important part of the patient care process. And, the patient`s needs are always our first priority. When anyone becomes disruptive to providing the necessary patient care, we involve our security team to help calm the situation and to protect our patients and staff. If the situation continues to escalate, we have no choice but to request police assistance.
Research Medical Center says it does not discriminate based on sexual orientation or race.
Bull shit they don't discriminate! If he has power of attorney, he gets to make all the decisions, period. They cannot override his power of attorney.
We should rally around the guy and help him in his time of need, since he is struggling. Can the hospital be sued for this?
If they have power of attorney and healthcare directives, there is no way the police could force him out of the room or arrest him.
Based on the hospital's comments and the partner's obvious abrasive personality, no wonder a restraining order was issued. Too bad the drama queen cares more about his ego than his hisband's mental health (which is clearly in rapid decline if he requires hospitalization).
[quote]If they have power of attorney and healthcare directives, there is no way the police could force him out of the room or arrest him.
This is not true. You should all be very worried about this. States have been very successful at shutting down every abortion clinic in the state by using back door methods. This is a similar back door method to deny gay and lesbian people their rights.
This is basically a Catch 22 situation. If one tries to enforce ones rights, one is being disruptive. If one is being disruptive, all other considerations are off the table. The hospital can ban you from the complex, regardless of whether you have power of attorney or not. Unfortunately, "disruptive" is subjective.
[quote]Based on the hospital's comments and the partner's obvious abrasive personality, no wonder a restraining order was issued. Too bad the drama queen cares more about his ego than his hisband's mental health (which is clearly in rapid decline if he requires hospitalization).
You must really hate yourself. Please keep your venom to yourself.
[quote] He’s been at the psychiatric unit part several times.”
The partner has been hospitalized in the psych unit several times?
Is he in the psych unit now?
Don't forget that both gay and straight couples can have an emotionally abusive partner. Maybe that's why the family wants him to stay away, the same way a family would want a husband to stay away of they believed he was causing psych or domestic problems for the hospitalized wife.
I'd wait til the full story is known.
R4. It is very true. We live in a red state and the docs worked perfectly.
R8, so your experience is law?
I know three people who have had issues with hospitals in the last three years. One in a blue state. Just because your experience was good does not mean it is not an issue.
R9. They should own the hospital then. All sates have to honour contracts between individuals.
I also think there's more here than meets the eye, but it's very possible the family member is homophobic and using this as an opportunity to push the partner out. It's not like such things still don't happen.
This reminds me of that awful story in FL where one half of a lesbian couple was dying in a hospital and her partner and their children (!) weren't allowed to see her even the partner had a Health Care Proxy document.
[quote]If they have power of attorney and healthcare directives, there is no way the police could force him out of the room or arrest him.
Exactly! That's why the police didn't remove him from his husband's room. The proper paperwork was all that he needed. It's brilliant that you noted that.
And some people wonder why marriage equality is such a "big deal".
All the victim blamers in this thread are horrible, horrible people. Yes, it's perfectly possible to stay calm when your sick partners family is making decisions (presumably the wrong decisions, given that this person tried to step in) even though you have power of attorney.
That anyone is defending the hospital is unbelievable.
Indeed. This is a perfect illustration of the importance of 'marriage' over civil unions.
I wonder what church that nurse goes to.
We need to picket this homophobic hospital and block their non-emergency entrance.
I wonder what political party R3 supports.
certainly either a log cabin r. or idiotic libertarian
I haves to agree with R6 - there is possibly more to this story. If there isn't, and what was presented is exactly like it is, then absolutely - I hope the husband finds a way to see his partner and while not in favor of the way lawsuits are thrown around over any number of things these days, this would be a case well worth pressing on for having kept him from the hospital.
BUT there is also the possibility that the family member is not being homophobic but rather protective. We don't know if the relationship is a healthy one, we don't know if drugs are involved, we know nothing but the surface of this story.
Honestly, how many times has the initial story on something left out some important details that later sheds light on the situation. This could be some jackass relative keeps two loving men apart - but there could be a reason that has nothing to do with homophobia (the fact that the patient has been in the hospital previously for mental issues suggests there's a lot more we don't' know).
Anyone saying "I think there's more to this story..." Or making an issue of the patient's mental health history is [bold]seriously missing the point.[/bold]
The patient's history or ailment is irrelevant. The husband's alleged "disruption" AFTER being barred from his spouse is also beside the point. Whatever his reaction was, it was caused by the in-laws and hospital barring him from his spouse. His reaction is not the problem, it's a symptom [bold]caused[/bold] by the problem.
The issue is whether this would happen to a heterosexual married couple, all other factors being equal, and the answer to that is a resounding NO. It's anti-gay discrimination, plain and simple, and perfectly highlights why we need marriage equality. This proves civil unions and private legal documents mean nothing in many places in our country.
[quote]The issue is whether this would happen to a heterosexual married couple, all other factors being equal, and the answer to that is a resounding NO.
No, the answer is a qualified "unlikely". A marriage certificate would go a long way towards making this less likely to happen; however at the root of this is not a gay/straight issue. It is an issue of blood lines. It is not unheard of for the blood family to attempt to exclude either spouses or adopted children from critical health care matters. It is considerably worse for gay or lesbian partners as they are without rights, but the issue is not going to go away with gay marriage.
R22 - thank you. How quickly people have forgotten me.
but what if there is a history of the barred husband being abusive to the patient? what if he was already causing trouble for the family and/or patient in the room and the family had enough? it's very possible there is more to the story and not just an open and shut case against gays.
the family has to know their son is gay and the husband was in the room to begin with....
The power of attorney takes precedent over whatever the relatives want. When my mother in law got ill, the person with the power of attorney( a non relative) had to give permission for her sons to get information on her care & for her sons to visit. The hospital was very, very, very strict about this.
It shouldn't matter how upset the relatives were, they were the ones that should have been escorted out. And the new statement by the hospital saying this man was obstructing the patient's treatment, well he basically has that right. The same way a person can always refuse treatment, the person with the power of attorney is your stand in and can also refuse treatment. I think this man needs to get a lawyer quick.
You all need to cut the histrionics and flapping your arms around. The gay card is not a license for insanity or violence. You don't know what kind of crazy behavior this "partner with the paper" was exhibiting. If someone is being violent or disruptive or acting out, a hospital can eject him no matter WHO it is. People can get arrested, too, without any regard to their sexual orientation.
What was the behavior at hand here? Was this guy being belligerent or taunting or arrogant? Who did he piss off? What was HIS role in this?
And, yeah, this happens in straight relationships, sometimes, too. The family is cray cray. The partner is cray cray. Somebody's not right.
GAY doesn't factor in only insofar as you might WISH it did. R22 is right.
r24, it doesn't matter. The fact of the matter is that this sick person gave his partner power of attorney. That's a choice that the patient himself made and that he could have rescinded before he became too ill to do so.
But he didn't rescind it. The partner [italic]had the power of attorney[/italic]. That trumps whatever feelings the family may have about this matter or about the patient's care.
DOMA makes this all too likely to happen. If the feds say it is okay for them to discriminate against gay couples then they can hardly tell the states that they cannot. Thanks Bill Clinton!
[quote][R22] - thank you. How quickly people have forgotten me. by: Terri Schiavo (is kind of alive-o)
Errr...the husband won that case. Not the best analogy there. Also a politicized, public, right-to-die case is not quite the same as a random person visiting a sick spouse.
As for R22, my point at R21 was that no hospital would bar a husband from visiting his wife or vice-versa. No hospital would arbitrarily pick sides in a family battle over a heterosexual patient in similar circumstances. I never said a marriage certificate would negate all legal battles with in-laws.
Again: you're seriously missing the point.
R27, but the hospitals right to keep the wards free from disruption trumps everything else. EVERYTHING else. You can stamp your feet and shake your fists all you want, but if the hospital feels that you are being disruptive or interfering with the duties of the staff, they can have your removed. You can then exercise you power of attorney from afar. Nobody, of any orientation, has a "right" to enter a hospital.
The problem would be to prove that the hospital is exercising their rights selectively. I think it would be very hard to prove.
What if the husband tried to kill his partner, R24? What if he had a gun in his pocket, or maybe he planned to smother him with a pillow. Maybe he was going to unplug his respirator and rip out his IVs.
Or maybe it was the in laws he was after. Or the nurse. Maybe he came to kill the nurse and she called security in self defense.
Or maybe he's not really his partner. Maybe it's like that Sandra Bullock movie and he's just pretending he's the partner because he's secretly been in love with him from afar.
Another scenario that the article never addresses: maybe the partner was a space alien in human disguise, and this is just the beginning of an alien invasion.
I agree, there's is a lot we don't know about this, so rather than consider how this relates to the issue of marriage equality, lets continue to derail the thread with wild speculation that casts the partner in a bad light and highlights the family and hospital staff as the real victims.
r30, you will be proven wrong, so get ready/
[quote]the hospitals right to keep the wards free from disruption trumps everything else.
You mean the disruption he caused AFTER being barred from his spouse, excluded from decision-making about his care and told to leave the premises?
This man was barred from his spouse because of anti-gay bigotry. How can that point be lost on so many if you?
WTF? Siding with the hospital???
I swear sometimes some of you make me want to puke.
R33, but can it be proved? It is a heck of a lot easier to prove that he was disruptive than it is to prove bigotry. Unless the family actually called him "faggot", one would have to be a mindreader to prove bigotry in a court of law. All the family has to prove is that the patient became agitated by the situation. Yeh, the patient may have been agitated by his partner being told to leave the room, but if the patient was agitated the hospital can remove a person from the room or the hospital.
Zack Ford at ThinkProgress LGBT noted that Missouri's state laws regulating power of attorney might leave room for hospitals to deny visitation "based on religious beliefs or sincerely held moral convictions, unless the hospital…received a copy of the durable power of attorney."
The hospital released another statement this afternoon via its Facebook page claiming that the partner’s behavior was “disruptive and belligerent” and clarifying that there is no restraining order:
We appreciate your concern and would like to assure you that Research Medical Center puts the care of our patients as our #1 priority regardless of sexual orientation. We support all the communities we serve. We have a long history of commitment to a culture of diversity. Research Medical Center was one of the first hospitals in Kansas City to offer domestic partner benefits, which have been in place since 2005, and we have had a policy specifically acknowledging domestic partners’ visitation rights in place for years.
This was an issue of disruptive and belligerent behavior by the visitor that affected patient care. The hospital’s response followed the same policies that would apply to any individual engaged in this behavior in a patient care setting and was not in any way related to the patient’s or the visitor’s sexual orientation or marital status. This visitor created a barrier for us to care for the patient. Attempts were made to deescalate the situation. Unfortunately, we had no choice but to involve security and the Kansas City MO Police Department.
We would also like to correct the misinformation about a restraining order. There was no issue of a restraining order by the hospital.
It's the self-loathing closet cases here, R34. It's gotta be. Every real-life gay person I have spoken to about this is appalled and scared.
I agree, a lot of posters here disgust me. So quick to blame the victim, especially if that victim is gay.
R29 - my point being look what the husband had to go through. Remember Anna Nicole Smith when she married father time and his will was contested? Marriage does not solve everything
R 34, it is not a matter of siding with the hospital. It is a matter of acknowledging that "there is no right or wrong, only points of law." The laws in this country tend to favor large institutions such as hospitals, banks, etc. Second, laws can be twisted to suit one purpose, such as the closing of abortion clinics that I mentioned up thread. This is clearly illegal, but has anyone challenged the states behavior?
Ok, so he's a lunatic drama queen. He lied when he said the hospital issued a restraining order. He was belligerent and disruptive and the partner has been repeatedly hospitalized in the psych unit. They're a couple of woo-woos and he was probably looking for a payday.
Crowds of gays and our supporters should form rowdy picket lines and hold solemn candlelight vigils around that hospital until they let our people in.
When Shirley Maclaine's character in Terms of Endearment did the "Give her the shot" scene, wouldn't that get her booted out of the hospital?
Emotions run high in a situation like this, when a loved one is hospitalized.
I seriously doubt if it was a straight couple, and this incident came up. He would be booted out.
Yes, let's all instantly accept the hospital's version completely and continue to smear and slander the partner. He's a lunatic! Drama queen! No doubt he was abusive! That poor, poor family, and that kindly nurse...
You people make me sick.
[quote]The hospital released another statement this afternoon via its Facebook page claiming that the partner’s behavior was “disruptive and belligerent” and clarifying that there is no restraining order...
This is bullshit! This is bullshit!
The hospital posted another message on their FB page
'Research Medical Center will be deleting any information on Facebook that is either incorrect or offensive'
[quote]When Shirley Maclaine's character in Terms of Endearment did the "Give her the shot" scene, wouldn't that get her booted out of the hospital?
Yes she would. Life is not cinema.
Oh please R47 I'm sure people who have worked in hospitals have seen worse behavior.
R38 - it's very simplistic to reduce people who say "hold on, let's find out the facts before being outraged" to being self-loathing closet cases or blaming the victim. I've only noted a couple of people actually (potentially) blaming the victim. Then there are several others saying, "we don't know all the facts. This looks like a major outrage on the surface BUT we don't know all the facts yet." That's all. That doesn't make people self-loathing, that isn't blaming the victim, or any other or the baseless claims you are making. It's just a call to take a breath, get some more info, and then act accordingly. Sometimes, peoples rush to judgement is accurate, other times it's completely misguided. There's nothing wrong with saying, find out all the facts, ask the right questions, and THEN take appropriate action (or reaction in this case).
r39, but when it came right down to it Michael Schiavo did get final say on putting his poor liquified-brained wife in hospice, not her wingnut parents.
This kind of shameful homophobic crap is exactly why we need marriage equality now in all fifty states.
R50...oh PLEASE shut the fuck UP! The only thing worse than a self-loather is an apologist for self loathers.
Their facebook page is pretty active...in support of the couple from the people making comments, of course NOT the hospital.
R50 again if this was a straight couple (not married, but having power of attorney) I doubt he would be asked to leave.
Emotions in times like these run high. This is not the first, nor the last time behavior like this happens in hospitals between family members.
Maybe what should have been done (if he was really abusive) is a cooling off period. Maybe a time-out, go down to the cafeteria for lunch. Then come back in an hour.
But not to escort someone out of the hospital, and by police no less.
Again if this was a straight couple, I doubt the actions would be this severe from the hospital.
I've worked in hospitals. I think they go too far out of their way to accommodate belligerent people. If they have released a statement like this, believe me, it's true because they don't want their asses sued off. They have lawyers on staff who vet every public statement to make sure it's not libelous. I'll bet the nurses filmed the guy with their smartphones.
And yeah -- he lied. He said he was fighting a restraining order. There was no restraining order.
R56 has anything happened that you have seen in R49
Would she get tossed out of the hospital?
Would the hospital have had to file the restraining order, or could the family requested one as well?
Here is a report from an eye witness. (seeing the hospital is being deliberately vague about what happened:)
"The worst part is when Roger tried to explain to the nurse that he had the legal right to be there and that he and Allen had joint power of attorney she wouldn't even hear it. He tried to explain that they make medical decisions for each other and it wasn't up to Allen's brother Lee or his sister Pat. In fact Lee hadn't seen Allen since X-mas! He never calls or goes to see Allen or Roger. Pat only visits when she needs something! The policy took Roger to the ground. Bear in mind he's early 50's with grandchildren, his glasses got knocked to the floor, both his hearing aids got knocked out of his ears. Was it really necessary for 2 young police officers to be that aggressive? And they did this in front of Allen who was already traumatized!
These are my brother-in-laws. The same day that Allen went into the hospital they were scheduled to leave on a vacation. Roger did nothing wrong other than simply refusing to leave Allen's bedside. Lee, Allen's younger brother, who has never liked Roger, got into an arguing match with Roger and got very hateful and nasty, saying that Roger was taking Allen on some "gay vacation so he can get butt f****d by 50 guys". Apparently, Lee thinks that's what it is to be gay/homosexual. He has no concept or understanding that they have shared a loving relationship for the last 5 years. Lee told the police and nurse that Roger was mistreating Allen. Roger told the nurse that he was Allen's partner and had every right to be there and they shared power of attorney. He did raise his voice at the nurse saying he had the right to be there and she needed to make Lee leave because he was upsetting Allen. So the nurse apparently didn't appreciate being yelled at by Roger and immediately called security. So I guess that's what you call being disruptive?"
This is posted on D. Savage site by someone who claims to be in the know:
"These are my brother-in-laws. The same day that Allen went into the hospital they were scheduled to leave on a vacation. Roger did nothing wrong other than simply refusing to leave Allen's bedside. Lee, Allen's younger brother, who has never liked Roger, got into an arguing match with Roger and got very hateful and nasty, saying that Roger was taking Allen on some "gay vacation so he can get butt f****d by 50 guys". Apparently, Lee thinks that's what it is to be gay/homosexual. He has no concept or understanding that they have shared a loving relationship for the last 5 years. Lee told the police and nurse that Roger was mistreating Allen. Roger told the nurse that he was Allen's partner and had every right to be there and they shared power of attorney. He did raise his voice at the nurse saying he had the right to be there and she needed to make Lee leave because he was upsetting Allen. So the nurse apparently didn't appreciate being yelled at by Roger and immediately called security. So I guess that's what you call being disruptive?"
[quote] And the new statement by the hospital saying this man was obstructing the patient's treatment, well he basically has the right
If you refuse to follow prescribed medical treatment while hospitalized, your insurance company can refuse to pay your hospital bill. it happened to a relative of mine who's wife insisted he not be given a certain treatment. The doctors asked, in front of witnesses -- "Are you refusing the medical treatment we are prescribing for the patient?" she said yes, he is refusing. He nodded his head in agreement(unable to speak). They documented it, the insurance company declined to pay the bill after that. You can't write your own treatment plan in a hospital. If you refuse what is the standard acceptable medical treatment for your condition, there's no point in your being in the hospital, so insurance will not pay.
Also, if you sign out of a hospital against medical advice, your insurance company will not pay.
So if someone is trying to prevent care being given to a patient, they can be booted out of the hospital. The family will be told, " If he does not get prescribed care -- in addition to not recovering from his illness -- insurance will not pay." You'd be surprised how often the "insurance will not pay" matters more than "he may not recover." Regardless, if someone blocks treatment, they are seen as preventing appropriate medical care from being given. That is a very serious thing to do, and could result in death or permanent damage. If other family members and hospital staff believe the patient will suffer as a result of missed care, they can have someone clocking the care removed if that person is in a state of mind where he does not fully understand why the treatment is appropriate -- if he is under the influence of drugs or alcohol, if he is in an irrational state of mind, if he is intellectually incapable of grasping the implications or if he has a history of abusing the patient.
A hospitalized patient's well-being is a very serious thing.
I hope all of you derailing the conversation by defending the hospital and criticizing this man are freeper trolls. Otherwise, you should feel badly about yourselves.
r63, why? People can pull the gay card as easily as the race card. And JUST because some guy screams homophobia and discrimination doesn't mean we check our brains at the door and go on autopilot defense. The dude seems totally cray cray to me, both he AND his crazy partner. Talk about a DRAMA filled, toxic filled life.
R62 why is your knee jerk response to defend the hospital. There are witnesses who were there who said what happened. READ
Yesterday was a traumatic day for me. My daughter came out to my house to help me with my Husband and life partner Allen Mansell. He was suffering from some bad side effects from his medications and lack of ECT treatments due to the large snow storm that occurred a while back as well as the ECT facility forcing him to reschedule many times. (For those who don't know ECT [electro shock therapy] is a commonly used treatment for individuals with severe depression. If you get off of your schedule AT ALL it can cause serious side effects. So he was exhibiting symptoms that were "normal" for what he was going through).
My daughter spent the entire day with him and even had her daughter, Lily (4.5 yrs old) with her. He was just sluggish and was slurring his words. With the chronic medical conditions that he has the best we (as family) can do is ensure he is hydrated properly, eating the right foods, taking his medicine on time, and providing a safe place for him.
Allen wanted to get his hair cut and the cats needed their food. So Amanda (my daughter) and him along with Lily went to the hair stylist to get his hair cut and then Hy-Vee for cat food. He was noticeably sluggish and slurring his words while in public but doing well and he was wanting to do these errands. We picked up lunch and headed home.
Upon arriving home Amanda was bombarded by police, paramedics, and Allen's family. Lee, Allen's brother, called the police, said he was a suicide risk (which he was not and ALLEN said so 4 times) but the cops "forced" him to go anyway b/c they said he was a danger to himself. So my daughter called me and the following story ensued.
[quote] And they did this in front of Allen who was already traumatized!
So why wasn't Allen being asked what he wanted? If he's not unconscious (and he obviously isn't, since this person is inferring that Allen was further traumatized by the incident), then what did Allen want? He's the one who is to make the decisions about his care, not his husband (or his wife if he was straight).
Sounds like Allen and the husband disagreed and the husband was trying to "jointly make a medical decision" when the decision was only for the patient to make.
I had no problems when my partner was in a Houston hospital 10 years ago because we had all the proper documents in place. In fact, the nurse told his sisters that I was in charge the minute they arrived, even though that wasn't necessary. The entire nursing staff couldn't have been nicer or more accommodating to me.
Why is anyone automatically swallowing the story of the guy who was banned, either? He is going to have HIS version and so is the hospital. NEITHER one is objective.
R66 did you bother to read. The only thing you have to do is claim someone is a danger to themselves and you can get them involuntarily admitted to a psychiatric hospital which is what happened because the brother was a homophobic asshole. Do you not get how the mentally ill are treated in this country? They do not get a voice so it doesn't matter what they say.
Stop making up trash to support your inane theories.
funny how the gay hating fraus on this thread refuse to even discuss the fact that this kind of thing has NEVER been reported happening to str8s. It never happens to hetero couples. NEVER.
Maybe R67 your partner wasn't taken against their will. Maybe the Houston Hospital was less homophobic. And maybe, as is probably the case here, they had a standing POA on file with the hospital so you didn't have to bring it every time someone is admitted. He was apparently a regular patient there.
Fact: Someone in a healthy relationship does not require several visits to a psychiatric ward. Like it or not, the histrionic partner is toxic and detrimental to his hisband's emotional well-being.
What's the big deal? Let the medical team evaluate the patient, decide if he needs treatment, talk to the patient about what treatment he may or may not need and let the patient make the decision.
Why all the hysteria? It's Allen's decision to make.
"No, I am not suicidal and I don't want treatment and I want to go home. I appreciate my brother is worried about me since I've been sluggish and slurring my words and thinks I need help, but I don't."
"Yes, I do want treatment. I'm worried that I'm sluggish and slurring my words and that I have missed ECT treatments. I do feel terrible. I'm depressed and stressed."
Keep in mind that if this patient has been hospitalized for attempted suicide in the past, the police can hospitalize him if they've been contacted by a worried relative and the patient seems "out of it." Slurring his words and being "sluggish" can look like a degree of incapacitation.
This guy has been hospitalized repeatedly in the psych unit. He is known to the hospital and medical team and may be known by the police. I'd tread carefully. If they release him and he hurts himself, or if the police didn't take him in as an EDP and he hurt himself, they're all liable. He may be taking too much medication and needs blood work and med readjustment. If he's diabetic, physical stress and blood sugar can affect medication levels.
At any rate, it sounds like the medical team was concerned with this patient's well-being and wanted to evaluate and treat him. What on earth could they possibly do to him that would be so horrible as to cause a scene? This is a patient who receives ECT (which really is the worst thing you can physically do to a psych patient since they no longer do lobotomies).
Sounds like his husband was more interested in taking off on vacation than in making sure his husband is ok.
I hope everyone understands the real issue here, as R67 mentioned "because we had all the proper documents in place"
Who the hell carries legal paperwork with them at all times? God forbid, you should leave the country..
THIS IS WHY ALL OF YOU SHOULD BE FIGHTING FOR EQUAL RIGHTS FOR GAYS AND LESBIANS!!
[quote]He says the nurse refused to verify they also share joint Power of Attorney.
He should have demanded to speak to an administrator. Nurses don't have final say on anything.
...kinda hard to do when you're being dragged away by the police in handcuffs...
[quote] this kind of thing has NEVER been reported happening to str8s
Happens all the time. It doesn't make the news because the straights can't pull a gay card and claim discrimination. We've had husbands, wives, girlfriends, boyfriends, mothers and fathers barred from visiting patients due to behavioral problems. We had one husband who was poisoning his wife when he visited her! (Luckily, the nurse noticed the wife got nauseous after eating hubby's lasagne and "put it away for later in the fridge" and called the cops who took it and tested it and yeah, it was poison.)
We had a mother who kept bringing her son cigarettes and lighting them for him, then going home. (This was when smoking was allowed in hospitals) Both the mother and the son were insane. We wanted the mother barred from seeing the son but the hospital said no. One day after, mom visited, sonny boy took a nap and dropped his cigarette from his mouth and it fell into his chair cushion. The fire department told us it smoldered while he slept until flashover occurred. The entire chair went up in flames as well as the drapes he'd been sitting next to and the styrofoam-like ceiling tiles above his head. It was a horror show.
We had a baby admitted with vaginal discharge. Babies don't get vaginal discharge unless the are sexually abused. We barred both parents. It was chlamydia. The mother had a breakdown when she found out. The only person who could have done it was the father. We eventually allowed the mother to see the child accompanied by a CPS worker. We had the father arrested.
This shit goes on all the time. These are just the worst 3 examples. We've barred family and spouses for bringing drugs and/or alcohol to patients, for verbally abusing patients, for stealing patient medication, for possession of firearms and knives, for suspicion of trying to harm the patient, and yes, for trying to prevent patient care from being carried out.
Oh, another horror show case -- we barred a patient's son from coming to visit when a certain nurse was on duty because he seemed to have developed an obsession with this nurse. He went on to stalk and rapeher in her home in front of her 4 year old daughter.
Don't think for a minute that much worse shit than this case has happened in hospitals. It's been going on for years. If the hospital rebuts it, they've got evidence. Because what hospitals usually do is issue a no comment and claim that there will be an investigation.
[quote]Who the hell carries legal paperwork with them at all times? God forbid, you should leave the country.
All you have to do is call the attorney who drew up the documents and have their office fax the documents to the hospital.
Let's not pretend R77 that this has anything to do with burning babies or abuse. Otherwise the very hospital FB website would not come out and say "Please note the updated headline on FOX 4 News' website. Research Medical Center never issued a restraining order against Roger Gorley and he is allowed to visit his partner in accordance with the visitation policy."
So take your crazy theories out of this the fact that the hospital is trying to make clear this man is welcome to return shows they don't have a legal leg to stand on. Obviously, they're now just trying to cover their ass.
It's very simple, did this man have a POA or not. If he does, then it's very obvious that the people who should have been kicked out are the relatives. The hospital is scrambling but they're in big legal trouble if POA is found.
R77 - oh, boy, don't go introducing balance or 'the other side'. That kind of thing doesn't go over well in this thread. It's either 'you are with us, or you're against us'. Being reasonable ain't appreciated.
R78, Health Care Directives don't require an attorney.
Glad to see you have one on-call 24/7/365
R78. Do people carry marriage documents with them? No.
R80 see post R79 to see why R78 is full of shit. If this hospital thought for one minute that the reason he was kicked out was because he was a danger to the patient, they wouldn't be backing down big time saying he can visit his husband NOW.
The moment they find that POA the hospital has no leg to stand on.
correction R77 is full of shit. So busy scrambling for all kinds of ridiculous reasons to excuse the hospital behavior.
And once again the gays prove to be their own worst enemy.
I'm sure once the hospital realized they were in danger of losing Federal funding because of this they changed their minds.
R86 why would they lose federal funding?
[quote]Following a Presidential Memorandum issued by the President, the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) now requires all hospitals receiving Medicare or Medicaid funds – just about every hospital in America – to respect the right of all patients to choose who may visit them during a hospital stay, including a visitor who is a a same-sex domestic partner. The President also directed HHS to ensure that medical decision-making rights of LGBT patients are respected.
R88. That doesn't mention funding or circumstances where the patient may not be able to communicate their wishes.
R88 Perhaps you should try reading the links provided. Its pretty clear the hospital was in violation of the directive.
I sense drama queens here. They referred to the partner as husband and they were never married. If the directive was in place it would have been honoured. I'm willing to bet this is like the hate crime lesbians that had defaced their own property.
[quote]'Research Medical Center will be deleting any information on Facebook that is either incorrect or offensive'
So essentially that would mean they are shutting down Facebook, right?
[quote] They referred to the partner as husband and they were never married.
They have civil union.
[quote]They referred to the partner as husband and they were never married.
Doesn't matter. There is no law saying only men who are legally married can be referred to as "husband".
R94. Great. Then marriage isn't an issue after all.
Health law attorney here. First of all, it is *quite* rare nowadays for hospitals to refuse to allow a patient's documented spouse or partner visitation time. Regardless of state, red or blue, a hospital's duty is to provide the best care for their patient, PERIOD. If that means allowing a same-sex partner to visit, so be it, and generally it doesn't matter if they have a proxy or not -- UNLESS it's a situation like this one where a) the patient is in for psychiatric care and cannot be reasonably relied upon to determine his own best interests at a given moment, and b) there's a family feud going on. Believe me, there are far more *straight* feuds of this nature than gay ones (e.g. husband's wife doesn't want his mother there, husband's mother doesn't want the wife there, patient's children don't want their stepmother there, etc.), and in all cases the hospital acts either according to the patient's wishes if he is conscious and able to speak (or even motion) for himself, and per his proxy if not.
Btw I will say that state laws on proxies/POAs vary widely, so those of you in partnerships in states without specific regulations for same-sex partners should consult with a family-law attorney on what you need to do to prevent any problems of this kind from arising should one of you have an accident or become sick. Some states are trickier to deal with than others, particularly those without specific laws or regulations on proxies and, even more importantly, advance directives (the legal term for a "living will"), which is where a lawyer can help. Also, by all means check out your area care providers and find out their specific policies on the subject.
As for what actually happened here: I think it's safe to say the hospital's version of events is valid. They'd be wide-open to a variety of lawsuits if they were openly spreading lies. Also, patients in for ECT can be particularly unpredictable, so hospitals err on the side of caution with them; it is definitely *not* in his best interests to be surrounded by family drama in his condition, so if the patient's partner was asked to leave, it was because it was in the *patient's* best interests, in the opinion of on-call staff, and had nothing to do with his orientation.
Best spin possible.
[quote] Great. Then marriage isn't an issue after all.
It never was in the first place.
It seems nearly every point you have brought up has no relevance to the case or show a woeful ignorance regarding the law. You may want to sit this one out for a while.
Does the kneejerk lack of support for a gay couple on a supposed message board for gay people surprise you? It wouldn't if you recognized the fact that almost half of the posters to this board are straight. Please remember this fact the next time you want to treat DL as the voice of gay America.
the daughter tells a different story...
Her story directly contradicts the hospital's allegations that her father was being "disruptive and belligerent." Brown also claims that the police assumed her father had AIDS just because he was gay: officers wore gloves because they didn't want to touch him (and one even refused to touch the handcuffs that touched him!).
that's just plain wrong unless the patient requests it.
R98. For fuck's sake
oh please the daughter is full of shit. Now there's an AIDS angle?
I'll go with the health attorney's take on it. He makes sense.
Now the hospital will let Mrs. Drama queen back in the room to appease him because he screamed so loud. When he causes more trouble, it'll be the same thing all over again.
You all have worked yourselves up in a tizzy over something that you did not witness.
What the fuck does a hospital have a Facebook page in the first place? Creepy.
R102 with just three little words, you proved R98 correct. Bravo.
[quote]the daughter is full of shit.
[quote]something that you did not witness.
[quote]I had no problems when my partner was in a Houston hospital 10 years ago because we had all the proper documents in place. In fact, the nurse told his sisters that I was in charge the minute they arrived, even though that wasn't necessary. The entire nursing staff couldn't have been nicer or more accommodating to me.
I missed this post earlier, but I will say that although I know Texas gets all kinds of shit on DataLounge, Houston in particular has some of the best health care providers in the country, and the Texas Medical Center there is literally the largest medical campus in the world. It's best known for its M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, but the Med Center houses specialists even on some of the rarest illnesses, diseases and disorders in the world. Also, Texas is -- believe it or not -- one of the most *liberal* states when it comes to a patient's care. A patient can orally override any sort of proxy or directive even if he's *not* in his right mind. Texans are serious about violations of "property," and there's no property more sacred to them than one's own body.
R105. You are so sad and ignorant of state law it doesn't merit engaging.
[quote] You are so sad and ignorant of state law
This coming from the person who had to have the law pointed out to them, and even then, refused to read what was written.
just spoke with Amanda Brown, 26, the daughter of Roger Gorley, who was handcuffed and dragged away from the bed of his husband, Allen Mansell, at the Research Medical Center in Lee’s Summit, Missouri on Tuesday.
Amanda, who was in the hospital room when her father, Roger, was taken away by the police, directly contradicts the hospital’s claim that Roger needed to be removed because he was “disruptive.”
She also accuses the police of wearing gloves, and worrying that her father had AIDS, simply because he was gay.
Hospital says gay husband was “disruptive and belligerent”
“This was an issue of disruptive and belligerent behavior by the visitor that affected patient care,” the hospital alleged in a statement released Thursday afternoon, after the story had gained national attention. In addition to intense media scrutiny and anger in the gay community, federal officials are now also investigating.
The incident happened Tuesday around 4pm, central time.
According to Amanda, her father Roger had every reason to be disruptive at his husband’s hospital bedside – his authority as Allen’s spouse, and thus the person in charge of Allen’s medical decisions, were Allen unable to make them himself, was being challenged by Allen’s brother, Lee, in the presence of a nurse.
Roger has Allen’s medical power of attorney, so there should have been no question as to who was legally responsible for care decisions.
Nurse allegedly knew the parties, yet did nothing to confirm Roger had medical power of attorney
What’s more, the nurse, according to daughter Amanda, knew Roger and Allen. Amanda say the nurse must have known that Roger was Allen’s designated representative, as they had been to the hospital many times before, and had been treated by the same nurse.
“The nurse knew who my farther was, she knew who Allen was,” Amanda told me by phone. “She had treated Allen before, and dad had been there before, dad had signed off on medical treatments before. She should have had all the information on file.”
Amanda says that the nurse had her father removed because of the loud disagreement her father was having with his partner’s brother, Lee, who had arrived at the hospital room at the same time as her father.
Rather than intervene and inform the brother that Roger was in fact the designated representative of his gay partner, the nurse had Roger removed. This, in spite of Allen reportedly saying from his hospital bed that he wanted his husband to stay in the room with him.
“Allen said he wanted dad in the room,” Amanda told me. “He said ‘I want him here’” as the nurse was asking Roger to leave.
When I asked Amanda if the nurse was possibly not aware of what the fight was about, Amanda responded: “She knew what was going on.”
Nurse had gay spouse removed, even though daughter says other man was more disruptive and belligerent
Amanda says that Lee, the man her father was fighting with, was being more disruptive and belligerent than her father, yet the hospital had her father removed – and then did nothing about Lee’s continued presence.
“Lee was being more crazy than my dad, he was the one who was yelling,” Amanda said. No matter. According to Amanda, the nurse “directed her comments to Roger, ‘you need to leave the room.’ My dad said, ‘no, this is my husband, I’m going to stay with him.”
That’s when the hospital called the police to remove Roger, in spite of the fact that Amanda says Allen specifically asked for Roger to be permitted to stay.
Daughter says cops assumed dad had AIDS because he was gay
Amanda’s account of the police’s treatment of her father, which she posted to her blog, is chilling:
When the Kansas City Missouri Police Department arrived they asked my father to leave the room. He said to them, “No. This is my husband and I am going to stay with him.”
The police considered that a violation of a direct order, so they began to forcibly remove him from the room. My father held onto the rail of the gurney as well as his husbands hand with everything he had. The police responded with brut and excessive force. The office began karate chopping his wrist to get him to release the gurney. Then they wrestled him to the ground forcefully enough to knock his glasses off of his face, his hearing aids out of his ears, and nearly break his wrist while they took him down. To handcuff him, they pushed a knee into his back and wrenched his wrists around.
It didn’t end there. The police changed his handcuffs 4 times! They assumed because he was a gay man that he was HIV+. When they drew blood from accosting him in such a brutal manner they freaked out. One of the arresting officers was so offended by my father’s presence that he would not touch him with his bare hands. He wore gloves the entire time and to make matters even more humiliating he didn’t want his handcuffs back. He grabbed them with gloves on, then another layer of gloves pinched between his index finger and thumb as he handed them off to another officer. The officer taking the handcuffs looked at him like he was crazy and just grabbed the handcuffs with no issue.
Interestingly, later the hospital also asked Lee, the man who was fighting with Roger, to leave as well. Why? Because it was Allen, the hospital patient, who asked for Lee to leave. For some reason, this time the hospital was willing to abide by Allen’s wishes regarding who should be with him. But not when his wishes were for his gay partner to remain.
“Allen was in and out of consciousness,” Amanda told me. “He didn’t want his brother in the room, so he asked his brother to leave. He [the brother] wasn’t calming down,” even after Roger was taken away in handcuffs.
Amanda says the hospital did let her father back in to see his husband today, after her father showed up and threw a fit. Amanda says the family is “planning to respond,” and has been talking with the local ACLU, among others.
The hospital issued a statement this afternoon, blaming Roger, but says it is unable to provide any details of its side of the story. Nonetheless, the statement makes clear that the hospital thinks it did nothing wrong, and presumably will treat other gay couples in this manner in similar situations in the future.
So this is a case of a homophobic nurse, and the hospital is taking here side.
All the hospital defenders in this thread should fuck off and die. Useless closet cases and log cabinettes.
This thread is disgusting. Who the hell are all of you defending the hospital???
In accordance with common decency, I'd just like to point out that HCA hospitals are computerized these days. This patient had been at RMC previously, so it already would have had the power of attorney in its files and the patient's chart should have shown that his spouse held the power of attorney. In addition, the patient was conscious and SAID he wanted his spouse with him. So the nurse's behavior is inexcusable. So are the actions of other hospital staff involved in calling the police to remove the patient's spouse, and those of everyone else involved in covering up this ugly, ugly incident.
R109 - rest easy in the fact that if they do indeed have a power of attorney they will own the hospital by the time this is said and done.
[quote]Who the hell are all of you defending the hospital???
Oldsters who are realizing they no longer are relevant. The backlash the hospital is facing from the public is more proof that America has rejected their values and by extension, is rejecting them.
Absolutely horrific and nightmarish homophobia. Does anyone have the hospital's contact details? I am not on Facebook but wish to email my disgust to them.
[quote]Yesterday was a traumatic day for me. My daughter came out to my house to help me with my Husband and life partner Allen Mansell. He was suffering from some bad side effects from his medications and lack of ECT treatments due to the large snow storm that occurred a while back as well as the ECT facility forcing him to reschedule many times. (For those who don't know ECT [electro shock therapy] is a commonly used treatment for individuals with severe depression. If you get off of your schedule AT ALL it can cause serious side effects. So he was exhibiting symptoms that were "normal" for what he was going through).
[quote]My daughter spent the entire day with him and even had her daughter, Lily (4.5 yrs old) with her. He was just sluggish and was slurring his words. With the chronic medical conditions that he has the best we (as family) can do is ensure he is hydrated properly, eating the right foods, taking his medicine on time, and providing a safe place for him.
Which apparently includes taking him on vacation.
R103, FUCK YOU. You abominable cretinous homophobe, with no compassion to boot. Asshole.
...also, the hospital is trying to hide behind HIPPA, but at the same time freely revealed that the guy was admitted for suicidal reasons.... Violation of HIPPA or what?!
I wonder if the troll who is making ever more hateful statements is someone related to the hospitalized partner who found this site in a search, and is determined to slander the husband.
this is how i know the tide has officially turned: the facebook page of the hospital in question is FILLED with posts (95%) from people who are overwhelmingly supportive of the gay man.
when facebook started, what, 5-6 years ago? the pro-gay posts would have been more in the 40% range.
It's gratifying to read the comments.
If you're gay and you want to be bullied and bashed where do you go....
Datalounge! Home of homophobia on the web.
Webby you need a more honest slogan...
What the webby needs to do is actually moderate homophobes, racists and misogynists, something that has'nt happened since 2008.
to be fair, MOST of the posts on this thread are supportive of the gay man...
Sure, there are a few skeptics who seem to be siding with the hospital in an effort to be super-cautious about going "all in" in case this is one of those 'fake' hate crimes.... but it's clearly not. So....
Is this place dead or what?
I can't believe this thread isn't more active this morning.
For some reason, I can never sign a change.org petition, but I did send the hospital an email condemning their actions.
another great comment from the hospital's FB wall. (Whoever is adminning that FB page should be fired!!)
"Thank you for providing an ever transparent case study in support of full federal equality. Your behavior solidly illustrates the animus, systemic homophobia and gross inequities same sex couples face in the healthcare system. California has completed disparity studies and is addressing the issues voluntary. The rest of the country will need to be dragged into the 21 st century via federal and judicial order. I am grateful that this will occur soon. On another note, as healthcare administrator, I observe that your staff appears to be out of control. I note at least one nurse posting on this page from her personal FB account. You might want to advise your staff to let your ( hopefully brand new as of this morning) PR staff handle this and to stop sharing personal, defensive missives on this page. What a mess."
[quote] This patient had been at RMC previously, so it already would have had the power of attorney in its files
My father has been in the same hospital frequently over the past 5 years.
Every time he's there they always ask if he has an advanced directive, etc. Every time he's there I have to provide them with another copy since they can never seem to find the one I gave them for his file the last time he was in there.
So, yeah, you'd THINK they would have it in their files, but most times they do not.
And did they then hustle you out of the hospital and arrest you, R130, once you told them that you were next of kin? Or did they take your word for it and keep looking and/or accept the directive?
That wasn't my point, R131. The point I was making was in response to R155's assertion that since the patient had previously been at the hospital they should have already had the Directive/HCPOA on file.
[quote]So, yeah, you'd THINK they would have it in their files, but most times they do not.
Any document that can be changed or amended will not necessarily be kept or relied upon from visit to visit. Someone might elect a person to be their healthcare proxy but, when the relationship ends, will amend or revoke that permission. The hospital should have allowed the partner to be with his husband because the husband requested it. The homophobic nurse should be fired and the brother should be banned from visiting until he is allowed by both the husband and the partner. I hope they sue the hell out of that hospital.
This is another reason why marriage equality is important.
If the hospital was at fault here, then the gay partner will probably sue and get a hefty settlement. So, it's a win-win situation, really.
How would you like to be in this guys shoes? Nobody needs to go through this bullshit when your partner is having any kind of health issues.
[quote]So, it's a win-win situation, really.
WTF? Do you even know what that phrase means?
According to ThinkProgress The daughter was out with Allen during the day running errands. When they got home they found Allen's brother Lee & Allen's sister along with the police and paramedics there.
They claimed Lee was suicidal even though apparently they hadn't been in contact with their brother since December. The cops interviewed Allen who repeatedly said he wasn't suicidal. However he was sluggish which is apparently a side effect from ECT treatment for depression so the officers forced him to go to this hospital(which was not his regular one with his doctors but the one he went to for twice monthly ect). He was involuntarily placed there. The daughter tried to talk to the hospital about his treatment but they refused to listen to her. She called her father at work and he rushed there. This is the reason he didn't have his POA on him.
Apparently Allen does not get along with his family and the family doesn't approve of their relationship. When Gorley got to the hospital Lee told him that he was the one in charge of his brother's care. An argument ensued after that.
There's a possibility that Lee is some kind of police office. His facebook page has him graduating from a Missouri police academy in 2006. This may explain why he was able to get police officers to commit someone against their will & not get arrested himself.
can the president step in and do anything about this?
The feds had to force southern states to accept blacks in their lily white schools and by force I mean "armed force". The only way gay couples will ever be treated fairly in states like "Misery" will be if the feds give them no choice in the matter. This silly bigoted notion that gays have to go to every state and win a popularity contest at the voting box repeatedly (our "victory" at state level is never set in stone and can always be voted away again) in order to have civil rights will NEVER end with us being equal. NEVER.
I didn't even know they still did electric shock therapy!
In a weird way, this case coming along now, with Scotus decision still pending, might have *some* influence........
[quote]The Kansas City police ordered Roger to leave, and when he did not comply, they considered this a refusal to cooperate and began to forcibly remove him. When Roger refused to let go of the gurney’s railing, an officer began karate chopping his wrists to get him to release.
The hospital is in the wrong, but it's his fault he was arrested. He should have left quietly and returned with a lawyer.
It sounds like he threw a tantrum! He was holding on to the railings?!?! He's a grown man, that's pretty pathetic.
I hope he sues the hospital, since they are the source of the issue here.
It's weird that Allen was "in and out of consciousness", though. If he was taken to the hospital with no real need as has been said, why was he having a hard time remaining conscious? Hopefully he wasn't drugged by his family.
You're a pretty calm cookie, r144. If the hospital sided with my girlfriend's brother and told me I had to leave her room, I might not cling to railings, but I would surely make a bit of a scene!
R145, and that's not going to accomplish anything.
[quote]It sounds like he threw a tantrum! He was holding on to the railings?!?! He's a grown man, that's pretty pathetic.
His brother-in-law had his husband locked up in an unfamiliar hospital, was threatening to kick him out, and was telling him that he was going to be responsible for the husband's care. I'd be throwing a fucking fit, too.
[quote]can the president step in and do anything about this?
It depends. If the circumstances warrant, they could pull all federal funds from the hospital until such time as it complies with federal regulation.
[quote]His brother-in-law had his husband locked up in an unfamiliar hospital, was threatening to kick him out, and was telling him that he was going to be responsible for the husband's care. I'd be throwing a fucking fit, too.
It wasn't an unfamiliar hospital. He was there twice a month for ECT.
And I can see being upset and throwing a fit, but once the police showed up, he should have handled things differently. What is screaming and holding onto things while the police try to remove you going to accomplish?!?! What did he expect at that point?
It's a fucked up situation and he responded poorly.
His partner need an adult in that moment. He should have left and come back with the proper documents and a lawyer and gotten his partner out of there. Instead he threw a tantrum and hot himself arrested. How did that be edit his partner at all?
Hopefully this has a happy ending, and these 2 men get a boatload of $$$ and can live comfortably for the rest if their lives. And hopefully Allen's family isn't in the will.
This is what needs to happen in these type of cases, r148. Unfortunately, in this type of situation, money is the only thing that trumps homophobic bullying.
[quote]What is screaming and holding onto things while the police try to remove you going to accomplish?!?!
Well, for starters, the hospital is now allowing him to visit.
"What is screaming and holding onto things while the police try to remove you going to accomplish?!?! What did he expect at that point?"
No offense but you sound cowardly. He didn't expect anything at that point, he was just reacting from the heart. Just like anyone who is being unfairly separated from someone they love. And are you really that dense? What did his behavior accomplish? The whole country is talking about it! If he had been a good little gay and kept he mouth shut and left when asked, nobody would even be talking about this story. Ih he had never stood up, he would've never been arrested and the homophobia would continue.
"His partner need an adult in that moment."
His partner need a MAN who is willing to stand up to bigots.
This drama queen has done more for gay rights than you ever will. I bet if you were around back in the 60;s, you'd be saying: those black people needed to behave and kiss the asses of those oppressing them if they want respect.
R153, he should have left and grabbed a lawyer. It's not the scene he caused that has created this attention, it's the asshole hospital refusing to let him see his partner.
r154, this made the news because he was arrested. If he hadn't been arrested and gone to his lawyer, then this would have been "solved" without national attention.
I don't understand why so many gay people think that kissing the asses of our oppressors will win us respect. It's the "drama queens" that get shit done.
Sounds like many of you dolts would go quietly if they started rounding queers up and shipped us off to camps.
R155, I'm not why you think handling adult situations as an adult is kissing the ass of oppressors, or how getting a lawyer and suing this hospital would be "kissing ass".
If his goal was to get have this issue resolved appropriately without adding even more stress to his sick partner, then he acted in a manner counterproductive to that.
There have been several of these situations that have made the new. Throwing a tantrum served zero purpose.
I guess if his goal was to be dramatic and portrayed as martyr, then yes, he succeeded.
But it's my understanding his concern was not attention, but to be with his partner.
He behaved EXACTLY the way his partner's family were hoping he would.
r156, you're wrong! I'm sure if we asked them nicely not to kill us, then they would let us go and be our friends.
R156, and it sounds like some of you are desperate to be portrayed as victims.
r157, are you stupid? Or are you that much of a coward? You expect the gay man to act like an "adult" but it's ok for the hospital staff to act like children? You seem to be defending them even though they never acted like "adults."
If this guy was as much of a pussy as you are, no one would be discussing this as an issue. Again, this "drama queen" has done more for gay rights than your cowardly ass has so shut the hell up. Even straight people are saying they'd behave exactly the same if someone tried to separate them from their loved one.
While harshly said, r160 is right.
[quote]Yesterday was a traumatic day for me. My daughter came out to my house to help me with my Husband and life partner Allen Mansell. [bold]He was suffering from some bad side effects from his medications and lack of ECT treatments[/bold] due to the large snow storm that occurred a while back as well as the ECT facility forcing him to reschedule many times. (For those who don't know ECT [electro shock therapy] is a commonly used treatment for individuals with severe depression. If you get off of your schedule AT ALL it can cause serious side effects. So he was exhibiting symptoms that were "normal" for what he was going through).
[quote]My daughter spent the entire day with him and even had her daughter, Lily (4.5 yrs old) with her. [bold]He was just sluggish and was slurring his words. With the chronic medical conditions that he has the best we (as family) can do is ensure he is hydrated properly, eating the right foods, taking his medicine on time, and providing a safe place for him.[/bold]
[quote]Allen wanted to get his hair cut and the cats needed their food. So Amanda (my daughter) and him along with Lily went to the hair stylist to get his hair cut and then Hy-Vee for cat food. He was noticeably sluggish and slurring his words while in public but doing well and he was wanting to do these errands. We picked up lunch and headed home.
[quote]Upon arriving home Amanda was bombarded by police, paramedics, and Allen's family. Lee, Allen's brother, called the police, said he was a suicide risk (which he was not and ALLEN said so 4 times) but the cops "forced" him to go anyway b/c they said he was a danger to himself. So my daughter called me and the following story ensued.
These are the words of Roger, the husband.
The patient (Allen) seems to be in terrible condition. I wasn't aware ECT (electro convulsive therapy) was an ongoing and regularly scheduled event for some depressives, but it seems to be part of Allen's life. He's on medications, some of which aren't agreeing with him, and he also requires regular ECT. He was in and out of consciousness at the hospital, according to Roger's daughter, and she describes him as being sluggish and slurring words during the day so he obviously wasn't doing very well.
Roger's daughter said that Allen's brother Lee had not seen Allen since Christmas and that Roger and Allen do not communicate with Lee. She said Allen's sister Pat shows up when she wants something.
I wonder if someone (perhaps the sister Pat) alerted Lee that Allen's condition was deteriorating. From Roger's daughter's account, Lee was aware that Allen and Roger were going on vacation that day. Lee seems to have decided he needed to go into action to save Allen from Roger.
This entire group needs to be sat down by hospital staff who should explain Allen's medical condition and prognosis (which is probably fairly grim). It sounds like their common bond is their concern for Allen's well-being. The sister and brother have probably conjured up a scenario in which Roger is drugging Allen and keeping him in this condition. The only people who can disabuse them of that opinion are probably Allen's medical caregivers. I know I would be alarmed if I discovered one of my siblings was in Allen's condition. The reason I'm suggesting dealing directly with the brother and sister is to prevent them from riding to the rescue in the future, or fighting Roger in the courts which is the last thing he needs. Continuing to keep them out of the loop means they could become an ongoing problem, one that neither Allen nor Roger needs.
Since Roger and Allen have only been together five years, I wonder whether they've been living like this the entire time. I can't imagine what Roger has gone through in five years.
I hope this can be resolved in a manner that lets them all go on with their lives, such as they are.
[quote]I wasn't aware ECT (electro convulsive therapy) was an ongoing and regularly scheduled event for some depressives, but it seems to be part of Allen's life.
It's a treatment that's come back into practice (something I learned from reading Carrie Fisher's last book...she's been very open about her ECT).
So, Rosa Parks should have gotten off the bus and found a lawyer?
This is why Marriage Equality on the federal level is so important.
This is why "States' Rights" is complete and utter bullshit.
Did we learn nothing from the Civil War? "States' Rights" is nothing other than a legal cover for hatred and discrimination.
They need to keep their employees off their Facebook page: “It makes news because of the fags,” says HCA employee.
R150=corporate toad who always sides with THE MAN. And never once has he profited from his slavish devotion to the oppressor.
This case boils down to a few essential points:
1) The nurse, who knew of this couple's situation, did not follow legal protocol and should be fired and the hospital sued. She's probably a homophobe.
2) The asshole brother is/was a cop who clearly has enough power to get the KC police to force Allen against his will, then arrest the partner. The KC police department should be sued. Interesting to note that Allen's other brother and his father support Roger and Allen's relationship. The cop brother has an agenda.
3) The hospital's incompetent PR dept is trying to cover the hospital's ass with propaganda and lies. They are in deep doo doo.
4) Given that this case has received national attention, it could be the tipping point that educates more people about why marriage equality is so important.
I do understand that HIPPA laws are very strict and medical workers must adhere to them. But this nurse knew the couple and illegally chose to side with the homophobic brother without bothering to check for the POA records. Ultimately, it was her decision to get the cops involved against Roger that led to this drama -- not the husband's natural defensive response to protect his partner.
I was in a similar situation at a hospital right here in the freaking Castro a few years ago when my partner of 20 years had a dire emergency and was unconscious in the ICU. We'd signed durable POA's for each other in our regular doctor's office -- same medical group but the staff wanted me to bring a copy for some reason. They were very kind, but were really paranoid about the HIPPA thing.
Fortunately, my partner is covered as my dependent on my insurance plan and they were kind enough to look into that as proof and accept my word about the POA. Our doctor was vacationing out of the country. I didn't expect this emergency and didn't have time to fucking dig through my files when the ambulance came! My partner was unconscious and I was an emotional wreck. And needed to follow the ambulance to the hospital ASAP. And fortunately, I didn't have some greedy idiot homophobe relative of his there picking a fight with me. Glad I don't live in KS/MO.
That nurse did not follow protocol resulting in a false arrest. She'll be fired. The KCPD is in big trouble, too.
Hopefully this case will will result in massive change.
I missed that the brother was /is a cop! Is he still a cop?
The entire nation of the UK is currently being smacked down by the conservative establishment bleeting about sensitivity to "the family"; I don't find the scenario depicted her hard to believe.
also the home company of said hospital is owned by Romney's Bain Capital.
1) Straight brother, Lee, forcibly committed Allen to hospital treatment. Through no fault of his own and continual rescheduling his health started to deteriorate. The straight brother informed the police he was suicidal. Which is weird because he hadn't seen him since Christmas (Allen's sister-in-law, brother and Rogers daughter confirmed this).
2) Straight brother verbally attacked Roger as soon as he arrived at the hospital.
3) Nurse who had dealt with Allen and Roger in regards to treatment, informed him he had to show the medical PoA. He just didn't have it with him this time. But the RMC have admitted in a round about way they knew the PoA. a quote from one HCA's (Health Corporation of America's) various changing statments '....However, HCA said Gorley did not present proof of “power of attorney” during that particular visit......'
4) Nurse took Lee's side. Called security. Then called the police.
This is where it gets more interesting. And confusing because the RMC keep changing the reason why he was arrested, if he was arrested, when and why the police and security were called, the changes to their statements are endless.
5) RMC claim that they wanted no visitors in Allen's room for the time been, but Roger was the only one asked to leave because Lee requested it even though Allen repeated stated he wanted him there.
6) Neither Lee, Allen's 2 other brothers, Allen's sister-in-law, or Roger's daughter were asked to leave only Roger. (Because Lee didn't want him there)
7) HCA claim that Roger was escorted outside to be later arrested by police. Witnesses inside the room state that Police physically bashed and pulled at his arms to try and get him to let go of the bed he was holding onto. Roger was knocked to the floor, his glasses were flung from his face and his hear-aides ejected due to the force of him been restrained.
8 ) Roger was then arrested charge and has to pay a $600 fine. Remember Roger is the one who is in a 5 year civil partnership with Allen, Allen and Roger both have each others PoA.
9 ) Yes police use preventative measures when dealing with blood and fluids but while one officer was handcuffing Roger he was showing utter contempt for him. This is clearly shown by even though the officer was wearing gloves, he proceeded to use another pair of gloves to hand handcuffs that had been around Roger's wrists to another officer. Roger was handcuffed 4 times.
10) Lee who was the reason for altercation and bad behavior in the first place was not evicted from the hospital, was not arrested, was not humilitated and was not treated as a third class citizen.
People defending this sad excuse for a hospital are inane.
Obviously they did wrong. All their statements sound like they were told to cover their asses.
Homophobia is rampant among staff, especially the lower paid, non-nursing kind. If you haven't see it, you have your eyes closed.
R178 I find it interesting in that article how the brother Lee claims he's not homophobic. Before Angela Mansell, Lee's sister in law, locked up her Facebook she posted yesterday on there that She & her husband Joe, and both parents of Allen were all in favor of the relationship between Allen & Roger but that younger brother Lee & Pat were not.
In fact, someone commented on there that Lee planned to have his brother Allen committed and picked that day because he knew older brother Joe would be out of town and wouldn't approve. And her next post was that's right. So this was no 911 emergency but something pre planned.
The story is very odd. Lee trying to sound like it's reasonable to call 911 when your brother doesn't answer the phone. It sounds totally ludicrous.
Still the nurse didn't need to get involved in the family drama. She should have checked who had the rights to the patient care, checked on the POA and had the brother removed. She did wrong because it's a HIPAA violation to ignore POA.
Fucking Chick-Fil-A Aushwitz "hospital". I hope that dumbfuck homophobic nurse kills herself!
$$$$ they will pay.
Update from daughter Amanda's blog:
Update: 4/14/2013 1:00pm
We visited with Allen yesterday (my father is at the hospital right now) and he’s doing much better. The staff is treating him well and has given us visiting hours outside of the normal times, to keep things more private, although they still have to supervise visitation. Allen is quite upset that his brother acted the way he did and does NOT want his family to make legal decisions for him. He made it very clear to us and the State Health Department that he told the nurse that first night in the ER that Roger is his husband, has legal power of attorney, and didn’t want him to leave the room.
We have reason to believe his brother and sister have spoken to Social Services and are going to try and use “senior abuse” laws (even though Allen is only 46) to try and have him declared incompetent and seize my father’s right to make decisions with/for him. We will fight this… they will lose.
He’s doing well and is ready to come home. He wants to release his own statement, and will probably do a few interviews, when he gets home and is rested. He will clear up some things for everyone and is happy that this situation, however difficult, has allowed people to have an important conversation about gay rights in this country. We appreciate everyone’s kind words and support. They have already racked up a few thousand dollars in medical bills from this (on top of having to cancel their trip to Amsterdam this week… non-refundable reservations). You can follow the link below or at the top of this blog if you feel moved to help (or just share it with your friends that can).
I got to see my father and Allen hug, kiss, and hold each other for several minutes at the hospital. I cried a little… they didn’t want to let each other go. They live a quiet life together and aren’t used to this much “noise” around them. They are ready to get back to their lives together with the family members that do love them. If you have questions that you’d like Roger or Allen to answer in a future press release, please email me directly at firstname.lastname@example.org, and we will do our best to get you responses.
To those that have empathized, thank you. To those that can’t seem to understand, I hope you find love someday like they have… maybe then you’ll understand people not recognizing your love and commitment and then you’ll finally get why my father refused to leave. The law is on his side. We are on his side. Justice will prevail.
Nicely put, daughter. Very moving.
The fucking brother should pay for the cancelled trip and, if he didn't really need to be hospitalized then the brother can cough that up as well.
Allen needs to get a restraining order against his brother and sister.
and can someone clarify: IS or WAS the brother a police officer?
The Kansas City Police handled this horribly too....
(still great comments on the hospital's fb page, although they are clearly deleting a lot...)
[quote]We have reason to believe his brother and sister have spoken to Social Services and are going to try and use “senior abuse” laws (even though Allen is only 46) to try and have him declared incompetent and seize my father’s right to make decisions with/for him. We will fight this… they will lose.
This is reprehensible. ACLU and GLAAD need to train full firepower on this case and blow those SOBs out of the water.