At what point did the Middle East enter the American consciousness?
What year was the first incident or historical event that made us aware.
Did anything happen in the 70's ?
May 14, 1948
I thought more like 1967?
What R1 said. The year the ME was made to pay for the sins of Europe because why make the Europeans themselves pay with land for what they did to their brethren?
Then Iran 1950s/CIA assassination of leader daring to want to nationalize oil to benefit his own country. Installing puppet dictator.
You don't think "Europeans" is a bit too inclusive, R3?
Don't you think we should go back to something like the Barbary Pirates of 200 years ago?
R4, if they weren't directly participating, they were either silent and/or apathetic. They were also making it crystal clear that they weren't willing to take responsibility for what was done right under their noses.
[quote]May 14, 1948
That's when the world powers made their biggest mistake. They should have seized the oil fields, colonized the entire region and sterilized the then-current residents.
You mean there were then-current residents, r7? I thought the region was completely empty.
Our greatest mistake was to legitimize the state of Israel without first demanding from it a plausible solution for the Palestinian population.
I'm with R2 on this one. Founding of Israel and the Suez Canal incident of 1956 probably didn't really register as much for most Americans.
November 26, 1873 at the Academy of Music in New York City.
R7, isn't it funny how you probably shake your head at the rightwingers who scream for a similar solution with gays (ie. treating them like a disease), yet you're just as mentally ill?
Stormfront is that way.
That would be 1923, when the oil seeps in Arabia were discovered to be commercially viable and the first leases were obtained. By 1936 Standard oil got into the mix, and American business and banking has been there since.
$$$ make the world go round!
[quote]Our greatest mistake was to legitimize the state of Israel without first demanding from it a plausible solution for the Palestinian population.
The United Nations partitioned the mandate into two states. One side rejected the partition wanting it all. That was not the israelis.
December 25, 0000
R7 - SING IT LOUDER
1973 - the gas embargo
Prior to that, the Middle East wasn't in the news all the time. The average person didn't take a political position on what the U.S. should do there. But waiting in long lines to fill up the car, filling up on alternate days, that pushed the Middle East to front and center. The Iranian hostage crisis cemented the fixation.
[quote]The United Nations partitioned the mandate into two states. One side rejected the partition wanting it all. That was not the israelis.
Hmmm. How curious, then, that the Israelis ended up with everything the UN proposed they keep AND seized 60% of the land intended for Palestine...
Not curious at all. The Arabs invaded and lost the territory in war. Israel gave back most of that territory, but in the case of the West Bank and Gaza, the states that used to own the land said "no thanks." Why did the take back the empty land but express no interest whatsoever in having back the land that was full of Palestinians? That's curious.
[quote]Did anything happen in the 70's ?
I can only assume you're under 30. After guzzling up oil like it was never going out of style for 70 years or so, the American public was delivered a swift reality-check in the nuts via the 1973 oil embargo. See, at this point most Americans were living under the delusion that the country was energy-independent. But then the GODDAMN Syrians had to attack GODDAMN Israel on GODDAMN Yom Kippur, and GODDAMN if Israel didn't start firing up its nukes and DOUBLE GODDAMN the U.S. publicly announced their support for the Jews instead of the A-rabs! Shockingly, the Arab nations that were members of the OPEC cartel got so GODDAMN pissed off at us that they cut off our entire supply of Middle Eastern oil! That lasted about six months, and buying gasoline suddenly turned into a potentially all-day-long "adventure," as gas shortage seized the country and sent prices skyrocketing.
If that didn't help the Middle East seize the American consciousness, then the Iran hostage crisis and subsequent gas shortage of 1979 did the trick, along with the "Persian exodus" to the States after the fall of the Shah and the Ayatollah's revolution.
Palestinians cannot self govern. They have to be under the control of the Israelis or another civilized society.
Pretty sure Strom Thurmond was a young congressman back then.
[quote]Not curious at all. The Arabs invaded and lost the territory in war.
Um ... no. The UN crafted a plan that unfairly favored the Zionist invaders of Arab holy land. The Arab world rightfully told them to fuck off. Backed by imperialist, nuclear-armed Americans, the Jews forcibly seized the land and on the horrible day R1 stated, unilaterally declared the creation of the NEW State of Israel.
To the victors, go the spoils, r18. The Arab states made a bad bet in invading, and the Palestinian Arabs (as opposed to the heretofore Palestinian Jews) made a worse one, to wit; Believing in the ultimate Arab victory and the promise of return by the Arab winners, the PAs chose not to say in the new Israel. Instead, they opted for refugee camps in Trans-Jordan.
And there they remained, because the bellicose Arabs lost. Oops.
Until King Hussein harried the PAs from his land when they tried to assassinate him ("Black September"). Bigger Oops.
r23 is nuts.
It was around the time of the First Crusade when Syria fell apart. The Emir died so the country was divided between his two sons. One ruled from Aleppo and the other ruled his territory from Damascus. The brothers were constantly at war with each other as well as the Emir in Mosul.
Of course, this was before Facebook and Twitter so the Native Americans didn't know what was going on over there.
1. The Zionists did not invade. They started buying land in Palestine in the 1800s. When European Jews immigrated in the 19th century, they joined the Jewish community that was already there. (In 1854, the Ottoman census showed that the largest group in Jerusalem was the Jewish community.) They also joined middle eastern Jews who had returned to the Holy Land, including Jews who fled attacks upon the Jewish community in Syria. Montefiore bought land in Palestine for the Syrian Jews before the Zionists showed up. Please, at long last, give up the pretense that there were no Jews there prior to 1945.
2. When the League of Nations set up the Palestine Mandate, Great Britain was charged with establishing a Jewish Homeland in the mandate. Great Britain then carved out over 75% of the mandate to create the Kingdom of TransJordan where Jewish settlement was forbidden. So Palestine was not carved up in favor of the Jews. It was carved up overwhelmingly in favor of the Arabs.
3. The Arabs started attacking Jewish communities in the 1920s.
4. The Arab League decided to invade Jerusalem with the intent of pushing the Jews into the sea.
In the 1980s, we supplied and supported the Mujahidin (Afghans) against the Russians. We turned them from essentially nobodies on the world scene into world-class fighters. We gave them arms, training, and munitions. Afghanistan became the Russians' Vietnam. The Russians finally pulled out of there.
Within 10 years, they turned on us.
[quote]The Zionists did not invade.
Oh, right. They "colonize."
[quote] Please, at long last, give up the pretense that there were no Jews there prior to 1945.
Who said that? What *is* true is that they were nevertheless outnumbered 2-to-1 by Arabs, at least until 700,000 European Jews emigrated in the years after WWII.
No, OP, Nothing happened in the 70s at all. It was the 'ludes.
Nice stealth Jew baiting, OP.
Aren't you glad you asked, OP?
The Zionists settled; they did not colonize. The British hoped to maintain influence in the Middle East by running the mandate, but the Zionists were not interested in being a colony of Great Britain. They were building the institutions necessary to be an independent nation decades prior to 1948. The Zionists built a modern nation while its Arab neighbors were content to languish in the 19th century (at best) and be manipulated by the British or French. The Zionists built businesses and introduced modern farming techniques which attracted Arabs from Syria, Lebanon and Egypt who wanted jobs paying decent wages. Arab employers resented the Jewish employers who paid higher wages to their workers.
Also at the time of the First Crusade, Pope Urban had armies gathering all around Europe that he planned to send to the Holy Land. The army of knights that gathered in Germany, didn't go on the Crusade. Instead, they stayed in Germany and attacked the Jews. (Did you think it started with Hitler?)
Americans were NOT thinking of Israel until 1967 and the six day war.
No one was giving a damn about the middle east. And ever since then, it's been one shitty thing after the next.
The Middle East has existed for millennia before the U.S.
Even the earliest American colonists had heard of Solomon, Saladin, Richard Coeur de Leon, the Crusades, Damascus, Jerusalem, Alexandria, Mecca, Cleopatra, Jesus, Moses, Muhamad, the Apostles, Petra, Antioch, Aleppo, Baghdad, Omar Khayam, etc.
R37. Don't forget mr hanky the Christmas poo
But the question was, when did America start noticing the Middle East. I think I answered the question.
Isn't it funny how Zionists use the example of the Native Americans to justify theft from Palestinians, then go onto justify the theft and invalidating the claim of Palestinians by making some ridiculous claim from thousands of years ago as though they're the only fucking people on earth who can absolutely claim that every last Jewish person of today has a right on that particular shithole, but not a single Arab has a claim.
Yeah, I'm sure every Jew of today is descended from the ones from thousands of years ago and not a single non-Jewish Arab has any connection or ever existed on the land thousands of years ago. I'm sure not a single one of them has a legitimate claim.
Only the Jews have been allowed to get away with some bullshit fairytale about a sky fairy being a real estate agent and foreign policy being dictated by that garbage.
[quote]Isn't it funny how Zionists use the example of the Native Americans to justify theft from Palestinians
Cite, please? I have never seen a Zionist use that example.
WWI-1920s. An American journalist publicized (and romanticized) Lawrence of Arabia and the Arab nomads. Started a fad and became part of 20s popular culture. Think of the silent "Sheik of Araby" movies. Huge hit for Valentino.
Isn't it funny how anti-Zionists
[quote]to justify theft from Palestinians
pretend the Jews owned no property in the mandate prior to independence, pretend all the land the Jews hold was taken from Palestinians, and ignore the ethnic cleansing of Jews (and seizure of their property) from the West Bank and East Jerusalem by the Jordanian army. Well, no, that isn't funny at all. And it's not at all funny that they pretend that all the Palestinians who in 1948 left what is now Israel were forced out, when very few Arabs were forced, and that minority was forced out for military reasons.
[quote] but not a single Arab has a claim
And it's also not funny that anti-Zionists ignore the fact that Arabs have sued for their property in Israeli courts and won.
For people in their 50s, 60s and older, the terrorists who invaded the 1972 Summer Olympic Games in Munich was a landmark in having the Middle East enter the American consciousness
[quote]To the victors, go the spoils
Live by the sword, die by the sword
You youngsters are precious. Really.
[quote]Live by the sword, die by the sword
Excellent! We desire death like you (Israel) desire life.
Wow...and of course this turned into a debate about the Zionist terrorists....
If you live in America, you will never learn the truth about Israel. When I found out who the real bad guys were, I realized it has been Israel and America all along.
For me, it was the school bus massacre in 1970. Dead Israeli schoolchildren hanging out of bus windows. It was the first I'd heard of this kind of terror, targeting school children.
R51 Oh, please.
So when the earliest Americans thought about Jesus they thought he was born where exactly if not in the Middle East (or Near East).... in Plymouth?
R51? You bet your ass.
If by American, you mean U.S. citizenship, then
July 4, 1776
The United States need to stop trying to bring peace in the Middle East. The Israelis don't want it and the Palestinians don't want it and they only go along with the current American Administration so as not to appear unreasonable. The only ones who profit from all this are the Israeli Right and the Palestinian Left, who only make the peace process even more impossible.
I've always wondered what the world today would be like if they gave the Jews Wyoming to settle as a homeland.
I remember when the Shah was overthrown and the Ayatollah Khomeni took over. It was the first time I'd seen American flags being burned and people chanting Death to America on TV. It was unnerving. I was afraid he'd take over the world.
R46: I think that was the incident that brought the Middle East & its problems front & center for America & the world.
I am not Jewish, but all of the Jewish people I have ever known have been smart, kind, generous, funny and wonderful people to know and be friends with. They are philanthropic and supportive and loyal friends. I was in a Boy Scout troop with Jewish leaders, and it was great. Smart people who really know how to treat people well and just plain good people.
Try naming some adjectives about the others.
The PLO started taking hostages and attacking civilian targets, showing Islam's true nature.
I am 64. For me, in my childhood I thought of the Middle East as a romantic place containing oasises (or whatever the plural of oasis is), camels, nomads, people in villages getting water at wells, and other such pleasant stuff.
Then I learned about cutting off right hands for minor infractions and the oppression of women and I didn't feel so good about it any more.
In the 1970s I followed the Shah's ouster from Iran and other Persian troubles, along with becoming more informed about the travails of Israel. In college I had a friend from Lebanon and she filled me in on her family's history and what it was like living in Lebanon.
Also in college in my world geography class I picked Iraq for my presentation. Learned about their nationalization of oil and western meddling.
So for me, the 1970s was when I got seriously interested in the history and politics in the Middle East.
The question remains: Why do the United States have to solve all the world's problems; in the Middle East and elsewhere?
What is this practice of arming rebels in the country to overthrow it? The rebels are usually psychos and thieves.
It's R13 for the win.
1)Joseph and the Technicolor Dreamcoat on Broadway
2) an Olympics in ? Munich in the early 70's. Didn't some Israeli athletes get shot by Arabs?
2) "Jewish" ScarJo peddling fizzy water made by slave labour in the West Bank (a 21st century twist on "Arbeit macht frei")
3) when that Saudi princeling bought that fab manse on Sunset in the 80's and put up faux Greek statues painted in weirdly sexual detail (pubic hair. etc)
4) Queen Rania of Jordan getting a nose job and poorly fitting couture garb and foisting herself on us as a Middle Eastern version of Jackie O
5) "Death of a Princess" that grainy video from the 80's? showing a Saudi Princess and her lover being beheaded
6). The death of Princess Diana with that Arab miscreant Dodi
I see your point R66 ( and of course r13) but does that qualify as American consciousness? As a political variable it does but the average American was unaware.