- Don;t talk about it until it airs! I forbid it!
- WOOP WOP
- Does anyone fall off Don's balcony?
- I heard that a rainbow kitten emerges fully formed from the head of Don's penis.
- Expect a full-fledged soap opera this season. Amnesia, switched babies, altered DNA tests, dopplegangers, a murder trial. Expect it all, and I for one cannot wait.
- I'll be popping up on this thread too!!
- Love how Don does t say a word for the first 10 minutes
- I'm watching and the first 16 min have been BORING.
- I have a feeling that there are going to be a LOT of commercials tonight.
- Megan overload ugh. I don't get Weiner's fascination with the character or the actress. She brings absolutely nothing. The Betty scenes were a lot more interesting.
- Is this the official thread or this one?
- I hope Carla returns.
- So odd not watching race tonight Gisele.. seems like they have that country music awards show every week.
Love Mad Men
Race and Gisele fan from the Amazing Race thread.
- I posted the other...what happened to the doorman? Was that a fantasy?
- Betty's husband really aged.
- I hope Carla returns and slaps Betty's useless ass around.
- Who were the extra kids? And who is January still wearing a fat suit?
- So far it's Weiner goes Hawaiian and some vocal fry.
- Fat Betty
- Did they have Ritz crackers in the late 60s?
- Isn't the violinist the kid from "Brothers & Sisters"?
- What the hell is "vocal fry"?
- Yes, R20.
- Who is this bald asshole?
- R20, don't forget those shitty Trisect crackers in the 1960s.
- I can't figure out what year it is.
- "Trisect" crackers? Were they trisected?
- I'm watching Big Bang repeats on WOR from eight to ten, then Game of Thrones encore at ten, then Mad Men encore at eleven. If I don't do that there will be serious gaps in my tv block and how will I cope? I'd rather put out me eyes than watch that country award show crap on CBS and Apprentice on NBC. \t
- December 3, 1967 was the first Heart Transplant in South Africa.
We're looking at the end of 1967, folks.
- Megan is still a lot more interesting than Betty, fat or slim.
- Did it come on at 9, eastern time? I thought it started at 10.
- We missed the summer of love.
- It's Christmas 1967.
- Betty made me gasp with her sick fantasies!
It's 2 hours tonight, R31.
- 2-hour episode began at 9.
- It's not as if Don or Betty or Joan or Roger or Pete or even Peggy would have ever in a million billion years participated in the Summer of Love, r33.
- What the fuck is wrong with Betty? She's gone off the deep end with those "fantasies".
- I hate Megan.
- 40 minutes in and nothing about SCDP AT ALL. This pisses me off.
- Shit. I missed part of it.
- Sorry: I meant r32, not r33.
- No, but they could have mentioned it. They mentioned King's "I have a dream" speech and other important socio-cultural events.
- Who is the chain-smoking 15-year old violinist?
Stan looks like a fucking hot bear.
- Is that the straight son from Political Animals? Jay R Ferguson's beard. ugh just ugh
- I hate the new office, I hate Stan's beard, and I HATE Ginsberg's mustache.
- "It really smells like reefer in here."
- Peggy is so in-charge & confident!
Pete's itty-bitty sideburns, LOL.
- Stan, lose the beard.
- I loved how Don and Roger looked at Joan while she was having her picture taken on the stairs.
Betty is dull, dull, dull.
- No, you didn't r40.
- Joan's tits! She looks more ridiculous than ever.
- Is Meaghan a Valley Girl?
- How soon will Don divorce her???
- R13 - Sending you Pepto-Bismol kisses.
- Well, this is kind of boring so far.
- Norwegian catholics!!
- Joan's gained even more weight.
- "I want you to be yourself".
- Does that surgeon want to fuck Don? That would be an interesting plotline.
- The show feels so fragmented and not cohesive. I feel like I'm watching four different shows.
- So, who's gonna need surgery this year?
- Love you R54
- OMG we finally got the answer to the Norwegian Catholic controversy!!!
- Well, Peggy cleared up the Norwegian Catholic situation!
- So far dissatisfaction all around. Megan seems happiest, but then she's young.
- I think I just saw the Hammaconda in his pajamas.
- Someone needs to WASH THAT SLUTTY MAKEUP off Sally's face...and then wash HER TRASHY MOUTH.
- Does Betty have a hunch back?
- Who was Ted Chough again?
- did the elevator man die and come back to life?
- I burst out laughing when Don puked during the eulogy.
- Ted is Don's rival. Peggy went to work with him.
- Me too! R72
- betty's exchange with the violinist is like drama 101. ew.
- What's Betty's interest in Sandy?
- Where are they going with the Betty story?
Will sehe grow a conscious? Go back and get a masters in social work? Become an advocate for homeless runaways?
- This is what Weiner didn't want critics to reveal?
- I feel deprived that we didn't hear the end of Mrs. Hazel Tinsley's speech.
- The Norwegian Catholic line must be a shout-out to DL.
- I'm glad people like Mad Men. Great concept, time period, costumes, down to the last production details, etc.
Unfortunately, I feel that watching Mad Men is like watching paint dry.
- Joan's tits...ew.
- Is Don turning into a falling down drunk as a skunk, alcoholic.
- "Will sehe grow a conscious?"
Oh dear, where to begin.
- Me too r79
- Who the fuck is this Sandy chick?
- That hippie was so annoying. As soon as he said "grok" I wanted Betty to bring the guitar down on his head. Actually an entire episode of Betty punching hippies would be amazing.
- This is all pretty dreary
- Is it just me or is this episode the shittiest Mad Men episode ever?
Why the fuck did they decide to devote the season opener to Betty trying to track down some friend of Sally's?
Nothing about SCDP campaigns, nothing about Joan being a new partner and how that is working out, nothing about Pete.
I feel like they are foreshadowing Roger dying soon too.
- Is that Matt Weiner playing Roger's psychiatrist?
- Every now and then they hint at Ken being a sociopath. I can see the show ending with a bang for that character.
- r89, Roger is clearly just waiting to leap off of Megan's balcony!
- Haven't watched the whole episode yet (thanks for the puking heads up, can't stand that shit) but has Sally made an appearance? Maybe Sandy is Sally?
- r91, he's going to be one who [italic]pushes[/italic] Roger off that balcony... just after he pushes Peggy down the open elevator shaft.
- With Megan mentioning her character pushing someone down the staircase, I think they're foreshadowing someone falling down that staircase in the new office this season. The balcony was so last season. This season it's the staircase.
- Oh Stan, never change.
- It's a bit slowpaced, R89, but the first episode often is while they set the tone for the season.
Sally has appeared R93, full of teenaged attitude.
- Did anyone else laugh as much as I did during the funeral scene?
- How did they explain the Norwegian Catholic bit?
- When was the last time a TV show referred to cruising the mens' room at Bloomingdales?
- Was that Linda Cardelini(sp)?
- Yes, R101. I knew she looked familiar. TY!
- Bloomingdales was a bit seedy before it's makeover in the 70s. My mother grew up in NYC and in the 1970s when I told her I went to Bloomies she expressed a restrained disgust. LOL!
- I was choking laughing R98, as soon as Mrs Hazel Tinsley entered the picture.
Ted is cute.
- Which was Linda? At the dinner party?
Betty looks horrible with dark hair.
- R105 Yes. The doctor's wife and now as I type, Don's mistress.
- Yes, it was Linda Cardarelli
- OMFG! Don and Drs. wife!
- Whoa!! Don's back to cheating!
- Then slipping right back into bed with Megan. Don is a real dawg.
- I wanted to see what all the fuss was about.
This was my first Mad Men episode -- and my last.
- Megan's teeth are going to take over the planet.
- Sally was excellent tonight - sassy little minx.
- I suggest you watch the GH marathon on soapnet, instead, r111. That's probably more your speed.
- R95 There were A LOT of references to staircases. I don't remember that staircase in the office getting so much screen time in the past. And then later someone mentions "staggering down the stairs." I don't know, maybe its a stretch, but I have a feeling....
- The film Up the Downstairs came out in... 1967.
- Wonderful to watch on a scene-by-scene basis...but it doesn't add up to anything, like every other tv show.
- r117, didn't you [italic]repeatedly[/italic] tell us last season about your "feeling" someone would take a nosedive off the balcony? If not you, then someone sure did. And that never happened either.
It's as if some of you wish Matt Weiner were the most hamhanded foreshadower in the world.
- The staircase is new.
- Welcome back, Mother Francis!
- It was slow, but any Mad Men episode with Mother Francis is automatically vaulted in my estimation.
But I just can't imagine living in some other man's dirt.
- "What did Phyllis do?!"
- The Return of the Foreshadowing Troll.
- Betty was pretty fierce tonight.
- I need Mother Francis to be my sidekick, helping me maneuver this dark world.
- Gah Betty channeling Karla Holmka grossed me out completely. I still think big Gene molested her.
- [quote]The film Up the Downstairs came out in... 1967.
A sly reference by Weiner to Sandy Dennis'...TEETH?
- Don has lost his neck. He's a no neck monster now.
- The first episode of the new season is always kind of slow.
Loved Betty tonight. I know everyone puts down her acting, but something about JJ fascinates me.
I laughed at Roger and his crying secretary. Glad to see Dawn is still Don's secretary.
Not enough Joan!
- Great episode. Loved it.
- "Not enough Joan."
There was more than enough Joan tonight. I bet those tits have their own heart beats.
- Dark hair makes Betty look fat and dumpy.
Betty was just on diet pill away from saying, "I'll hold that fifteen year old whore down while you shit in her mouth!"
- I liked that Henry wasn't even particularly shocked by Betty's fantasies - par for the course for them in bed?
Next week, I want to see clips from Megan's soap.
- [quote]I liked that Henry wasn't even particularly shocked by Betty's fantasies
I think you are absolutely wrong. He was shocked -- and a little disturbed.
- The doctor seems a little bicurious, at least with Don. He sure seemed interested in Bloomingdale's.
The new Creative frau might prove to be entertaining. Sort of Borscht Belt.
- Next week, Joan's baby - and her mother!
- They must be planning to do quite a bit with the antics backstage on Megan's soap opera because there was no actual TV soap opera called "To have and To Hold" (I just checked on imdb). If it was just going to be referred to in the background they'd have had her be on something like "Edge of Night" or :The Secret Storm."
- It's unfortunate that they're keeping Betty plump because the facial prosthetics detract even more from January Jones's expressiveness (which is not gigantic to begin with).
- Bitch better not be on "Secret Storm"
- R137 That's possible. They had her audition for a real show "Dark Shadows" last year so I do wonder why they invented one.
- And how could Megan not know that her soap was nationwide? Weren't they all? That Minnesota tourist in Hawaii knew her and Megan seemed really thrown by that. Is she retarded?
And what was Don watching on his TV while the maid was vacuuming? Was that the soap? And why in 1967/68 do the Drapers not have a color set - that's his business and now hers, after all...
- I think Don was watching a Donna Reed Show rerun.
- That was the Donna Reed Show and it was filmed in black and white.
- I got more of an impression from the doc that he was hot for Dawn, not Don.
Clearly, some of you bitches have forgotten that two-hour "Mad Men" eps are *always* languidly paced. This one, clearly, was entirely focused on "the end" because we now know that the show itself will end after next season. Don's adrift, again, losing his identity (embraced in the totem of his "lucky lighter," now replaced by that of a soldier whose life he *didn't* intend to steal this time), getting wasted and fucking random bitches. Peggy's becoming more and more like Don -- the ad man, not the alcoholic identity thief -- by the day, and for the first time has both hair and wardrobe that are actually *flattering*. Betty's search for Violin Girl represented her own lost identity, as a Barbie-like ex-model with a stunning Ken for a hubby, but now she's basically given up by getting fat, marrying a much older man, paying zero attention to her children (and letting Sally openly mock her, which would NOT have been put up with in 1967 by a standard WASP monther), and, finally, by giving in entirely and releasing the last totem of her former existence: her perfect blonde bob.
I didn't get a few things, though: why did Kenny lash out at the cute new guy for sending catering to Roger's mom's funeral? Was it just because Kenny saw a younger, equally sycophantic version of himself? Why did Jane show up at the funeral, considering Roger dumped her for a younger, prettier model? What's the whole point of this "refrigerated truck" business?
Also: I knew it had to be 1967 from the first 15 minutes or so; '68 is *way* too juicy a year historically speaking for them to pass up. I'll go ahead and guess that this season's "big climax" episode will center around Dr. King's assassination (April '68), with a finale coinciding with RFK's June '68 assassination. Getting the idea about the whole "death" theme from the episode yet?
- [quote]It's unfortunate that they're keeping Betty plump because the facial prosthetics detract even more from January Jones's expressiveness (which is not gigantic to begin with).
Betty's still fat, and now saddled with a fugly hair color, because January is the cuntiest cunt that ever lived, and I love making her look like shit.
- Roger didn't dump Jane for a "younger, prettier model", R144. He and Jane agreed to divorce after their LSD trip experiences.
Roger dumped MONA for the younger Jane, but after Roger and Jane separated he made up with Mona, who has clearly moved on but still felt some loyalty to Roger by showing up at his mother's memorial.
And was that a different actress playing his daughter Margaret than in seasons past? She looked much smaller than I remember from her wedding 2 seasons ago...
- Betty was a bore last year.
But she was the only interesting character tonight.
- I agree with your assessment, r147.
- I still like Betty better than Megan. Even young Megan can't keep Don's cock from straying.
- You are right R146
- No force on earth could keep Don's cock from straying.
- The actress who played Don's new squeeze, Linda Cardellini, played Velma in the live-action SCOOBY-DOO movie ten years ago.
- Caroline on Roger's mom: "She was always so polite... when she could hear me..."
- I'm happy Henry Francis' mother was back. She's sassy.
- Betty's scenes with the hippies at St. Marks were fucking ridiculous. Lol bad. Art directed grunge never, ever works. And those exterior shots of the snow in NY were embarrassing. Not worthy of this show. They couldn't have come to NY this winter? There was tons of snow. Badly done for a show that places such a premium on detail.
That being said (Norwegian Catholics!), the rest was great.
But WTF was that Betty "You can rape her" scene??!!
- Megan in Hawaii: "Oh. My. God! You mean people actually see what we say in that studio place?"
- Was glad to hear Pete's horrible mother is still alive. I hope she turns up this season.
- [quoteThey couldn't have come to NY this winter?
Hunty, please! That New York has gone.
- That squatters' hovel on St. Marks Place goes for at least $5 million now, kids.
- Hazel Tinsley has replaced Mother Francis as my favorite Mad Men character ever.
- "I want to speak first!"
- Disappointing season opener. Plodding pace, stilted dialogue and ridiculous plot lines. Worst episode since Season 2.
- January Jones is a great big fat person now.
- I hope Miss Blankenship's ghost shows up this season.
- Peggy's boyfriend Abe looked hilariously hippie-ish.
- I like that Sally is turning into a bitchy preppie princess just like her mother. Those of you who thought she was going to be come a hippie were way off base. She's going to become like Margaret Sterling... or like DeDe Halcyon Day from "Tales of the City." She'll get married barefoot and that will be it as far as her rebellion from the Establishment goes.
- What's the name of the new woman on Don's creative staff? The men all treated her incredibly disrespectfully (no surprise).
- so r97 we should expect everyone to die this season?
Because I feel like they were foreshadowing just about every character dying.
- I can't wait for next week's episode, "Staircase of Death"!
- [quote]And those exterior shots of the snow in NY were embarrassing. Not worthy of this show. They couldn't have come to NY this winter?
I think you've forgotten about the budget wars the producers have had with AMC. The Hawaii excursion was probably comped by the Royal Hawaiian Hotel (mentioned numerous times on-air, and still around today), plus it's easy to do period shots at a place like Waikiki. NYC, however, is another fucking story altogether. Plus, where would they have shot those St. Marks scenes? God knows it looks nothing like that today. Hell, even Crown Heights can't pass for squatterland nowadays.
Anyway, aside from the pilot and tonight's Hawaiian excursion, the entire show has been filmed in L.A., undoubtedly due to the incredible expense of filming in NYC *and* closing down streets for days on end and replicating what they looked like in a bygone era (which I'm sure is why Baz Luhrmann didn't even think twice about filming the entirety of "The Great Gatsby" in Australia and digitalizing every inch of "1920s New York City").
- I want Don to cruise the men's room at Bloomingdales.
salesbottom with a hand drill
- There's one more season already contractually scheduled for after this one, and Weiner has stated in many interviews that he believes Don Draper remains alive to the present day, so to speculate that everyone dies this season is just stupid.
- I saw this streamed and it ended abruptly in Peggy's office with her work buddy saying over the phone, "He likes you." What happened after that?
- My take on the first episode:
My least favorite Mad Men ep ever. And no, I'm not a hater. MM is my favorite show of all time, I know that it often starts slow.
But what worked brilliantly in the past was all the sad, lonely disparate parts coming together to sell copy, to sell happiness. And that just isn't what's happening anymore. I think part of the problem is "the times". The innocence of the early 60s allowed for the smoke and mirrors of advertising to still feel innocent itself. But by 1967/68, people were beginning to know better. I knew this time would come as a viewer. And it has.
That said, I thought Peggy was wonderful. Her ascension is so damn satisfying. And I loved her take on the her "crisis".
Don was great as usual, but, really, he didn't have much to do, except stare and drink and puke.
Everyone else? Meh. I have never been so bored.
Even Roger didn't work for me. I get it, I get it. Seeing the shoe shining kit "finally" let him have his cathartic moment that he couldn't get in either therapy or by his mother dying. I didn't buy it.
And the whole Artful Dodger Crew on St. Mark's? Are you kidding me? Easily, by a mile, Weiner worst creative decision in six years. It felt like a bad first run of an off off off off Broadway play by way of Scranton.
Oh, and as others have said, MW obviously trolls DL. The Great Norwegian Catholic Scandal has been solved!
- I'm oddly attracted to Don's bald doctor neighbor. Why? Something about his voice.
- [quote]The Great Norwegian Catholic Scandal has been solved
Could someone please clue me in as to WTF this is about?
- Bear Stan! Woof!
- Between her fucked up rape fantasies and her walk on squatter's row, Betty will be raped or nearly-raped.
Dawn will track down Lighter Guy and he'll be dead. Don will freak out and fuck the widow.
I'm still waiting for the big Don & Peggy hook-up.
- Did you all like my role as Barb, the autograph hound in Hawaii?
- When I saw all the old biddies at the funeral, I was hoping against hope that we'd have another appearance by Alice Cooper. I miss that old lesbian bitch. It would have been great if she'd brought her "companion." And her fox furs so Roger could make another quip (maybe something about dead eyes this time).
Hilarious, in a sad way, that Betty is turning into Mother Francis. I guess it's really programmed into her to be the woman her man wants. Don wanted the cool blonde model. Henry wants Mother 2.0. Remember, Henry fell in love with her when she was pregnant with Gene. So, he definitely has a mommy thing going on.
Betty Draper would have slapped the sass right off of Sally. Betty Francis not so much.
- I agree with much of what r174 said.
Most disappointing episode of the entire series. Yes, I know the opening episode of every season is always sort of slow, laying the foundation for plotlines of the season. But damn, nothing happened.
Betty looks ten years older as a brunette. And she looks even fatter.
What's with Kenny riding Bob Benson (James Wolk) about kissing up and working in the upstairs lobby? Seems like a lot of backstory there waiting to be told.
Stan with a beard. Uggg.
Ginsberg with a mustache. Ugg.
Harry Crane with longer hair. Well, at least he's trying to keep up with the times.
Don's fucking the neighbor? Well, he's back to being Don at least.
Peggy's working on New Year's Eve. At least they're being consistent with her character.
Betty's rape fantasy? Super bizarre.
Megan's now on a soap opera playing a maid. Well, since "To Have and To Hold" wasn't a real soap, clearly this will figure prominently into the storyline since Weiner wants some creative control over it, otherwise, he would have used a real soap like "Edge of Night" or "Love is a Many Splendored Thing."
- The last season ended at the beginning of 67. They did a full buildout of SCDP, everybody grew their hair, they all started doing pot in less than a year?
- I am fascinated with Betty because JJ has got to be the worst actress on the TV machine.
Her bad acting steals every scene she is in for me...I can't imagine what it must be like during first read throughs for the other actors...they MUST cringe.
She looks like someone in a fat suit....bad all the way around, which for me makes for great TV
- I agree with R174. I used to hang out with those St. Marks types, and that's not at all how we talked. This sounds like adults trying to reproduce hip kid talk. We didn't spout angry revolutionary bullshit at suburban mothers. All wrong. Weiner really screwed up on this one.
The show was dull, and Megan is the most boring character ever invented in the show. But as some one else pointed out, the first episode of the season is never the best, so hopefully this one just planted the seeds for more interesting developments to come.
- Someone mentioned the GH marathon. Rose Kelly from GH appeared on Mad Men last night as the blonde who wanted an autograph from Megan. She looked older but OK for her age.
R99 The whole Norwegian Lutheran Dad/Irish Catholic Mom thing was kinda/sorta explained before.This just made it clearer.
Id Betty in love with that girl? From her bizarre fantasy it seemed she had a kinky curiosity about her.Though she seemed like it was purely maternal concern when she showed up at the squatter's place. I thought that those kids would rough Betty up, that the girl would be strung out on drugs or that she would be pulling tricks. Instead we got a boring Betty outcome.
That hussy Linda Cardelini,she's much cuter in real life. It's funny how she is transformed in almost every role she plays. I didn't even recognize her.
The bathroom talk was fun. It was done in an ever so slight way wasn't it? The straights must have been confused by that talk.
The Norwegian Dad conversation and the Bloomingdales bathroom talk is proof positive that someone from MM lurks here for ideas. I'm waiting for Don Draper to go to a glory hole next!
- am i the only one who thinks this is the most boring fucking show on television? i dont get it. flat acting, zero charisma (yes including Jon Hamm!).
- [quote]I'm oddly attracted to Don's bald doctor neighbor. Why? Something about his voice.
I found his voice attractive, too.
[quote]Megan is the most boring character ever invented in the show.
I think the first few minutes of the show purposely highlighted that. You had silent Don looking at her like she was foreign to him as she prattled on about nothing. It showed that the love haze had cleared and he realized he married a nice but young and kind of superficial woman.
Betty was pill as a wife, but she was complicated.
None of the characters are really changed by marriage (who is?). It's like Joan said to Don last year, "Maybe that's just the way he is...and maybe that's just the way SHE is."
- Stan's ass!
- R173 Nothing.He was a complete gentlemen BUT let's see if Peggy tries to leave. It might become all Peyton Place again. Or in other words Peggy fucks another big shot!
R176 People were complaining that Peggy was Norwegian and Catholic when 99 percent of Norwegians are Lutheran. The show ducked out of that situation by making Peggy's mom, Irish Catholic.
R178 It ain't happening it's too obvious. You'd see Roger fucking a chick with a dick before that happens....judging from the way they monitor DL,check for Roger's tranny girlfriend next season.
- As others have written--
The first episode of a series after a break is almost always a disappointment...although last night was worse than most by far.
But, I am glad that Peggy will apparently have a role in this season, possibly a big role. It was unusually to see Don Draper fail so totally with a client, Sheraton in this case.
Betty Francis seems more interested in the St. Marks girl than her own kids, perhaps not a surprise but still interesting. It's sad to see Megan so excited about a role in a soap opera. I have never liked Sally, so the less we see of her the better. Sterling is usually fun to watch, not last night.
- When Betty came back to her home with that new color, for a split second, I thought it was Mama Frances walking through the door.
What year was the summer of love? This season is in 1967, I wish they would hold on to 1969, between the Mason murders and various other events, the 60s died.
I took me a while to recognize the supporting cast...with beards and whatnot. I wonder if we'll find out about the new women in creative and the kiss ass guy that Ken seems to hate.
- Ken doesn't just hate the kiss-ass, most seem to and even I found him annoying.
- [quote]...so hopefully this one just planted the seeds for more interesting developments to come.
Hope you are right r184.
I think one of those seeds is the zippo lighter. What happened to Don's lighter which is a link to his past. We may not have seen the last of the soldier he met in Hawaii.
- Who is that girl, did I miss a story line?
- I also thought Betty was gonna bang the teenager. The whole rape thing was just so weird.
- Betty seems to be considering a threesome in that bedroom scene.
Why did that young girl run away? She was in what seemed like a pleasant home (except for the in-law) why would she leave? What did I miss?
- They are going to have Betty lose her weight, don't worry about that.
Was she trying to look like Meagan?
- [quote] And the whole Artful Dodger Crew on St. Mark's? Are you kidding me? Easily, by a mile, Weiner worst creative decision in six years. It felt like a bad first run of an off off off off Broadway play by way of Scranton.
COMPLETLEY in agreement. WTF was that? Rang false in every possible way. A really embarrassing miss for this show.
- The soldier Don met in Hawaii looked like a young Roger Sterling to me.
- Considering that the show started with Don reading "The Inferno", wasn't Betty's trip to St Mark's a step into a circle of hell?
Or more likely, Betty realizing she is in a circle of hell with the conventional expectations of women. The little violinist has escaped that circle and Betty wanted to bring her back. When Betty failed, she tried her own escape by going back to her real hair color, which is probably the first step toward reading "The Feminine Mystique"
- Can't wait for Julia "Blow Job" Ormond to come back and blow the doctor as revenge sex for Don Draper fucking his wife.
The whole sex/maternal thing with Betty and the violinist is so weird.Does Betty want to lick this girl or does she see a little bit of herself in the girl?No matter she looks hideous as a brunette....
- [quote]What year was the summer of love? This season is in 1967, I wish they would hold on to 1969, between the Mason murders and various other events, the 60s died.
They skipped the summer of love, I'm afraid. This episode took place between Christmas 1967 and New Years of 1968.
I think you're supposed to glean that said summer had a huge effect on men's hairstyles.
- The show's been off the air so long that I forgot all the posters who say that they're bored with the show, but still keep watching and posting.
Can someone provide them a link where to watch Dynasty re-runs? So many seen to expect Mad Men to be a campy soap opera.
- The weird thing is that since this show has been for years the It show in upscale culture and has had such an effect on contemporary American fashion, every American gay man now feels it his duty to watch this show. But you can tell from this thread that many of you really don't want to watch it--it's too slow or too subtle for you. You want there to be superobvious foreshadowing, and you're also wishing oversized soap opera events would happen, like having Betty get raped or Dom kill himself. When it doesn't happen as obviously or as quickly as you want it, you bitch and bitch and bitch.
You'd really be much better off sticking to the Real Housewife series and you know it.
- [quote]We're looking at the end of 1967, folks.
How come in the spring of 1967 Sally was a 12 year old having her first period, and now she has a 15 yer old friend who is 'a year older' than her?
- Wasn't the summer of 1968 more violent than 67?
- It seems to me that the costumes and interiors were wrong for the tenement scene. It wouldn't have been so grungy, people had lots of paisleys, tie die, beads, all that crap.
- The summer of '67 was bad. I was born in the fall of '67 in NJ, and my parents still talk about the infamous Newark, NJ riots that summer. Plus the timeline makes sense, since they had Megan auditioning for what I guess was the Victoria Winters character on Dark Shadows the season before, and DS premiered in June 1966.
- When the hippie who took the violin called Betty out - he mentioned her peroxide hair, among other things. He also told her she was obviously unhappy.
- The young guy who played the squatter who bought the violin from Sandy was hideously bad. Truly amateurish acting.
The kid who played Frasier's son Freddy was on it last night playing one of Peggy's minions. He was cute.
I really like how much Betty's husband loves her. Even though both kids reacted nastily to her new hair color he caressed her lovingly and mentioned ElizabethTaylor.
Bobby snapping "I hate it!" at the very sight of her new hair color convinced me even further that he'll grow up to be a gay hair stylist or costume designer.
- What number Bobby are we on now?
Kiernan Shipka is really getting good.
- Yes Betty's hubby loves her.
Particularly when she is spouting kiddie rape dirty bed talk and channeling Mama Francis' hair. She was already hefty and now with that hair...oh mamma!
- So Weiner's patented WTF scene was the "did it or did it not happen" scene of the doctor (whose wife Don is fucking) performing CPR on the doorman. Can anyone with greater insight than I explain the significance of all of that?
btw, Ray Abruzza who's been around forever played the doorman. He used to work out at my gym in the city back in the '90s, and he has the thickest, heaviest, hairest cock I've ever seen.
- Since each season they skip over a few years, they will probably skip over the events of 1969-- I was hoping that they would go into the Manson murders. maybe the Speck/ nurses massacre referenced last season was enough for the writers.
- '69 was also Woodstock, and I find it hard to believe they'd skip that. '68 is coming up, and I'm sure they'll address the RFK and MLK assassinations. Peggy has that huge painting of JFK, so I'm sure another Kennedy assassination would impact her.
- If it's Christmas 1967, how come Sally went from being a 12 year old having her first period in the spring, to being a 14 year old (Betty reminded Henry that 15 year old Sandy is only a year older than Sally)?
- r216, it's a soap opera, and soaps use a device called SORAS (soap opera rapidly aging syndrome). Mad Men is not immune to that plot device.
- [quote]They did a full buildout of SCDP, everybody grew their hair, they all started doing pot in less than a year?
They were discussing buying the floor above and adding a connecting staircase last season, so that much I can buy. The long hair and chops, and bountiful facial hair, not as much. Btw am I the only one who noticed a disturbing resemblance between Stan and Zach Galifanakis? Am I also the only one thinking we'd get a reveal of the Bloomingdales tearoom and discover the cocksucker in question was Sal?
R213, the heart attack scene had no significance aside from the fact that Don's apparently on a "death trip," what with "The Inferno" and delivering paeans to suicide in the form of hotel ads and all. The whole show revolved around death, including two literal ones and the probable death of Sandy's innocence, embodied in the violin Betty left behind on St Marks Place.
Also apparently dead is Kenny's idealistic, upbeat innocent: now he's just an asshole taking completely pointless pot shots at the new, younger, cuter guy.
- [quote]Since each season they skip over a few years, they will probably skip over the events of 1969
Not a chance -- way too much juicy shit happened that year. Plus, Weiner's long been on record saying that the show will never make it to the '70s timeframe-wise.
- [quote]They were discussing buying the floor above and adding a connecting staircase last season, so that much I can buy. The long hair and chops, and bountiful facial hair, not as much
That's what really happened after the Summer of Love. By the winter, everything had changed grooming wise and fashion wise. People moved really quickly that year.
- R213, Ray Abruzzo, who played the doorman, was also on Dynasty. I think he played the detective. He has incredibly beautiful eyes but he didn't get any close-ups last night.
I bet Megan is getting shtupped by one of the leading men on To Have And To Hold.
- Weiner also said the show would be five seasons... until he got a sweet deal.
- [quote]Megan's now on a soap opera playing a maid. Well, since "To Have and To Hold" wasn't a real soap, clearly this will figure prominently into the storyline since Weiner wants some creative control over it, otherwise, he would have used a real soap like "Edge of Night" or "Love is a Many Splendored Thing."
Anyone else hoping for some scenes on the set of "To Have and To Hold"?
(Great choice for a fake soap title, for several reasons...)
- Who is Sandy? Is she Henry's daughter from a previous marriage?
- Seemed like just a friend of Sally's R224. I'm hoping next week's show is better.
- [quote]Ray Abruzzo, who played the doorman, was also on Dynasty. I think he played the detective. He has incredibly beautiful eyes but he didn't get any close-ups last night.
I enjoy his presence on Twitter -- he's clearly a big liberal who most often posts about same-sex marriage and gun control. During the election he slammed Romney on a near-daily basis. Lately it's been lots of short videos of his dogs (and an occasional chat with Emma Samms, so they're obviously still friends).
Never heard him linked romantically to anyone. He seems like a very sweet guy... and r213's story from the gym makes me happy.
- HuffPost is speculating if To Have and to Hold is based on One Life to Live. I highly doubt it, esp. since OLTL didn't premiere til the summer of '68.
- Megan got her first taste of fame and there is probably no way she is going to stop chasing it.
As we saw last season Megan screwed over her friend to get that commercial part and I it is going to be interesting to see what she will do next to further her acting career.
- R226, wasn't he little Carmine on the Sopranos too? Didn't he die on the toilet after Thanksgiving claiming that the turkey had stopped him up like paste? Jesus, that was vivid.
Another fun fact, Linda Cardellini was the inspiration behind Sarah Marshall in Forgetting Sarah Marshall. I just can't picture as vapid.
- Thanks to the poster above for pointing out who Loanne Bishop played. I saw her name in the credits, but couldn't figure out who her character was. I never would've recognized her.
- What was the significance of the shoe-shine kit that Roger was given?
That one really went over my head.
- I thought the shoeshine kit was a catalyst for ROger finally being able to express his grief....
Speaking of Roger, I wonder if he'll demand an active role in little Kevin's life.
- Did anyone else wonder why Roger was giving his daughter a jar of grandma's urine?
- it wasn't urine, r233 - it was water from some 'famous' body of water (forget the name at the moment).
But, Roger's mom did give all her money to charity - a zoo!
- r234 - Roger said it was from the river Jordan, where Jesus was supposedly baptized... in literature and music it's used as a symbol for freedom, or for the freedom one gets from reaching the end of one's journey.
- R234, what?????
- Stan has become quite a bear. Will he get naked this season? He is, after all, a nudist. I'm also glad that Stan and Peggy continue to be friends, after all these years.
- The Betty storyline was definitely the weakest - and she supposedly has a major story arc this season.
Also, the new office looks exactly like the old one, only it now has two floors. Doesn't it seem like design-wise they would start to go in a new direction? Not that i'd like to see it, but most of the agencies started carpeting offices in the late 60's, and the furniture would probably be less mid century and more garishly late 60's. Only Trudy's flowered sofa rang true.
- I fast forward through Peggy's scenes.She's so hard to look at, I feel sorry for ugly people like that.
- Peggy's outfit at home was HORRID!
- [quote]Another fun fact, Linda Cardellini was the inspiration behind Sarah Marshall in Forgetting Sarah Marshall.
Which Jon Hamm and his wife were both in (they met on the set).
- I hope they update Joans wardrobe. She'll still wearing the same clothes and hairdo from 1960.
- [quote]I hope they update Joans wardrobe. She'll still wearing the same clothes and hairdo from 1960.
I think that's the point for poor Joanie. She's Jayne Mansfield in the age of Twiggy.
- R241 That's not true. That's a 2008 movie and Jon and his lady have been together for over a decade and I don't think that's his wife.
- They DID update Joan's wardrobe last night. if you watch the special feature video on the AMC website, you'll see that the costume designer points out that Joan has radically changed her style of clothing this year. The problem is, as r243 points out, this just wasn't an era when voluptuous women looked good in the fashions provided.
- [quote]Oh, and as others have said, MW obviously trolls DL. The Great Norwegian Catholic Scandal has been solved!
Are we so arrogant as to think a) a TV show creator/writer/director is taking cues from DL as to what material to include in his episodes and b) that DL is the only forum in the world that has brought up the Norwegian Catholic observation?
Do you guys honestly not think that the issue can come up pretty much anywhere in MW's life, especially with the amount of Mad Men nerds out there that follow every little detail in a detail-oriented show trying to catch hints of illegitimacy?
- [quote]Are we so arrogant as to think a) a TV show creator/writer/director is taking cues from DL as to what material to include in his episodes and b) that DL is the only forum in the world that has brought up the Norwegian Catholic observation?
Hunty, please! Are you new here?
It is a cherished tradition at DataLounge to pretend that famous people read our typings.
- All the male actors with the facial hair are just lining up with the trends of the times.
This is just about the time when all the clean-faced cute boy bands, everyone from Herman's Hermits to the Beatles, started growing their hippie beards and porn staches.
- [quote]This is just about the time when all the clean-faced cute boy bands, everyone from Herman's Hermits to the Beatles, started growing their hippie beards and porn staches.
1968 and the hideousness has just begun, alas.
- [quote]The Norwegian Dad conversation and the Bloomingdales bathroom talk is proof positive that someone from MM lurks here for ideas. I'm waiting for Don Draper to go to a glory hole next!
Again, are some of you so trapped in your mothers' basement to think that the only place where straight people can find out about notorious tea-rooms and glory holes is DL?
As a matter of fact, part of the reason saunas and rest rooms have declined in popularity (besides the fact that less people need to hide) is that the rest of society, including the authorities, has found out about them and they are hardly the discreet meeting points they used to be.
- I know the hair is accurate but it just looks so costumey.
- Oh that was funny, I meant to say men's room at Hellman's (a L&O reference) but I must admit I like the cut version better.
[quote]Hunty, please! Are you new here? It is a cherished tradition at DataLounge to pretend that famous people read our typings.
No, as a matter of fact I've been a DataLounger since 1999, and the delusion always gives me a chuckle. Everything from Meryl Streep posting here to Matthew W. looking for ideas.
The only ones that can be confirmed are gossip items that the gossip columnists have actually credited DL as a source of, like the Mike Piazza - Sam Champion scandal and a few items by Jeannine Walsh (sp?).
- Im glad to.see Linda working. For awhile I'd thought Apatow and co. had blackballed her over the Jason Segal breakup.
- r244, I thought the same thing as you did but then I wondered: could it be r241 may have been referring to Jon Hamm and his partner Jennifer meeting [bold] Linda C. [/bold] on the set of FSM?
Nothing much really happened. And I wasn't buying suburban, sheltered Betty going into the derelict building and holding forth among the bohemians as if she was at one of her charity fund-raisers.
When did the Concorde SST start service? Maybe they could jazz things up with a trip to London. Hawaii didn't really make sense. Obviously they took a shitload of state money to film there.
- I was going to watch it, but I remembered I had some paint drying and watching that is always more interesting.
- [quote]Hawaii didn't really make sense.
It represented Paradise vs. the Hell in the book Don was reading.
But Don found that he wasn't even happy in Paradise.
- [r211] it's the same Desperate Housewives Bobby as last season
- [quote]Kiernan Shipka is really getting good.
But she better cut the vocal fry before it consumes her acting style. I doubt it's a character choice (as it was not a late 60's affectation at all).
- Show sucked big time, so disjointed.
- I want hairy Stan in me, quite deeply.
- For the people questioning whether Weiner might troll sites like DL...my ex is a television writer. When he had his own show on the air, he was obsessed with forum sites. Obsessed. Would read them as stress over them and get all bent out of shape over the comments. And while he never took ideas or anything, it did help him gauge what was working and what wasn't. His show wasn't a DL fav, but had it been, he would have been all over those threads.
Make of that what you will.
- The problem is, R262, there are a LOT of websites that discuss Mad Men in depth. Weiner may troll a few of them, but I seriously doubt the discussion at DL is even in his radar.
I wouldn't be surprised if he takes a look at Sepinwall's HitFix site and maybe NYMagazine and the NYTimes. But Datalounge? I don't think so.
- Oh totally, R263. I seriously doubt he reads Datalounge. But I bet you anything that one of the forum sites he lurks on had a similar Norwegian Catholic debate and he probably went "doh!", and then found a time when he could finally "fix" it.
Again, I know this because my ex did do things like that from time to time.
- Linda Cardellini's older brother was a friend of mine in high school. It's cool seeing a local girl become famous. I haven't seen her brother in years, but I just saw a photo of the two of them online and he looks great for his age (he's pushing 50).
- [quote]What's the whole point of this "refrigerated truck" business?
It's refrigerated railroad cars and I can vouch that my best friend's family made a FORTUNE with it back then. A portion of which he inherited.
- To R241:
You're thinking of KISSING JESSICA STEIN. That was over 10 years ago.
- Be careful investing in refrigerated boxcars!
- I guess nobody figured out the reason Kenny is giving the new guy such a hard time about his side catering business is because Kenny himself got so much shit about his writing career?
Tiny Orchestra Man
- I remember last year I had a hard time getting into the first episode and then ended up liking the rest of the season so I figure that will happen again. The episode with Joan sleeping with the guy to get partnership from last season is now one of my favorites.
- R269, you completely missed what the tray of food was about.
- I didn't understand about the plate of food.
- Refrigerated railroad cars were in use in the 19th century. This wasn't a new idea just a variation. Neither were refrigerated trucks new in the mid 1960s.
Roger's daughter looked so different - is it the same actress.
I am happy that amc.com let's you see the entire episode. I forgot they did this. One season they uploaded IIRC the first 3 episodes.
I am still enjoying MM. I have no problem with it taking its time to explore the characters.
- [quote]Also, the new office looks exactly like the old one, only it now has two floors.
Huh? That's because it IS the old one. They just added a second floor.
- EAST OF EDEN !!
Glad someone else had same thought #268 !!!
- Does Bobby Draper never age? It's been eight years since the show started and he's still a little boy. Why don't they do something with him?
- Bobby should be 10 and Gene should be 4 and Sally should be 13.
- I guess Bobby must have been a lot younger than I remember him being when the show started. I feel like he's been played by a succession of six year olds.
- [quote]Bobby should be 10 and Gene should be 4 and Sally should be 13.
Well, Kiernan Shipka is 13 and Mason Vale Cotton is 10, so the actors are spot on in ages.
- [quote]I hate the new office
It's the same office.
- Sandy had to have been family, R225. She mentioned that her mom was dead, and presumably that's why she was living with them full time.
I see no one else knows exactly where the hell she came from though so I guess I didn't miss that tiny bit of dialogue explaining it.
- At first I thought she was Betty's stepdaughter but she isn't. She's not related to them, she's just a friend of Sally's whose mother had died recently.
- Why do people complain that this show is boring?
It's like complaining that Breaking Bad has too much meth, or that True Blood is unrealistic.
- I don't get your point r283...It is supposed to be boring?
- Was that dude flirting with Ken?
Ken's the hottest dude on the show.
- The introduction of Sandy was awkward -- a terribly contrived piece of writing. And Don reading The Inferno? Really? Someone is reliving their college World Literature class.
- Don didn't go to college.
- "The most lighthearted description of raping a minor ever to play on TV"-Sloane Crosby, NYT, of Betty's suggestion to her husband about the teen in the next room on Mad Men. Thought that was a pretty funny comment.
- I don't get the thrill viewers have w/ Linda C. I barely remember her from Freaks and Geeks. Her character looks so frumpy. What's the appeal for Don? That's she's a floor above? Convenient and willing? He calls the good doctor "friend" and he's betraying him? Also, in the '60s, wasn't there still self-segregation amongst the opposite sex in terms of religious backgrounds (even if non-practicing?) Would a WASP as Don have dated, er, bedded as many -- and this is a term from that era -- Jewesses? That word is as outdated as stewardess or secretary from the same era.
Don, Don, Don, you leopard w/ the same spots.
- [quote]Would a WASP as Don have dated, er, bedded as many -- and this is a term from that era -- Jewesses?
I think it was well established in season one that Don would bed Jewish women. Besides, men having affairs always crossed such boundaries. It was easier that way because the women always knew that actual divorce and marriage were out of the question.
- R287 - Don went to night school.
- Sylvia is not Jewish, R289 -- she's Italian. Her husband is Jewish.
Not that Don would care if she was, but she's not.
- Does DL agree with this Betty analysis?
One of the most "off" scenes in "Mad Men" history transpired during the Season 6 premiere, when Henry and Betty were discussing Sandy. Betty "jokingly" suggested that Henry rape the 15-year-old girl, and offered to "hold down her arms." "You can stick a rag in her mouth and you won't wake the boys." Henry was horrified, but not nearly as horrified as I was.
After unleashing this extremely disturbing conversation, Betty smiled broadly, as if she'd just made a few amusing, slightly barbed remarks. It looked as though Betty thought she was just giving Henry a hard time, and it seemed as though Weiner, who wrote the episode, was trying to convey a bit the jealousy Betty felt in what he may have thought was semi-humorous, semi-aggressive language. That was so far off from how the scene actually came off.
What that whole scene said to me is that Betty is a mentally disturbed person who has no sense of what is appropriate and that she has serious emotional issues. We know that, but does the show know that? There has always been a mismatch between how the show thinks Betty comes off and how she actually comes off. I think the show views her as misunderstood, immature and occasionally cruel, but basically someone who's more or less sound and someone we should empathize with. The character doesn't come off that way at all, and the mismatch between the intent behind Betty and the reality of who the character actually is is often grating.
If Jones had had the ability to infuse that kind of scene with ambiguity and multiple layers of meaning, perhaps it would have been less jarring, but she couldn't pull it off. Even if she could, why is "Mad Men" so fascinated with this woman, who is basically disturbed, angry, petulant or unhappy in very similar ways over and over again? I don't know. I do know that I simply don't share that interest.
- R286, Don's mistress, Sylvia, suggested that he read it. Obviously, he never read it before.
- It was supposed to be horrifying and show how fucked up in the head Betty is.
- I think Betty is just giving hubby what he wants. Cruel like Mama Francis, fat like Mama Francis, hair like Mama Francis. She is screaming under all that.
- What was Mama Francis talking about in the car when she said she didn't think things could get any darker. Was she serious or quoting something?
- [quote]Even Roger didn't work for me. I get it, I get it. Seeing the shoe shining kit "finally" let him have his cathartic moment that he couldn't get in either therapy or by his mother dying. I didn't buy it.
I buy it. She was 91 so, as he said, her death was no shock. My father had very little to do with me since my parents divorced when I was 10. He died after a protracted terminal illness. I felt very little, but about a week after his funeral I started bawling like a baby for no particular reason.
- It's true. It's kind of hard to know how to feel because you have been expecting their death for years.
- It's not boring to me. I like to see character development. If you like Michael Bay...watch something he's directed.
- I thought I recognized that actor who was playing the abused intern - anyone know his name?
- [quote][R176] People were complaining that Peggy was Norwegian and Catholic when 99 percent of Norwegians are Lutheran. The show ducked out of that situation by making Peggy's mom, Irish Catholic.
I think they knew exactly who Peggy's mother was all along. It's the DL audience that didn't pick up on the clues. Are we really the only ones that talked about the Catholic Norwegian?
- Ken : New Guy :: Don : Pete
- [quote]So Weiner's patented WTF scene was the "did it or did it not happen" scene of the doctor (whose wife Don is fucking) performing CPR on the doorman. Can anyone with greater insight than I explain the significance of all of that?
It happened. The way it was shown suggested it was a flashback for Don upon returning from vacation and seeing Jonesy at work.
The whole episode was about death. Roger's mother, Don's suicide-inspired concept, Roger's "Is that all there is?" moaning, Peggy's colleague's reference to his dead wife, the shoeshine guy, heart transplants, Jonesy's white light, the soap character pushed down the stairs, the doors metaphor. Don's ad character disappears into the water just as violin girls disappears into the subculture. The doctor skiing off into the darkness to try to save a patient's life. Dante's inferno. Anthony's eulogy for Caesar. Viet Nam always just in the background like white noise
- [quote]I don't get your point [R283]...It is supposed to be boring?
It's supposed to move slowly and subtly focusing on everyday events and how they reflect character.
- It IS the same office. They just added a second floor. Don't you remember the iconic scene of the partners standing at the windows when they checked out the new floor?
- [quote]What's the whole point of this "refrigerated truck" business?
NYT thinks it's an hommage to the scene in The Graduate (which came out that summer) where the party guests says "Plastics" to Dustin Hoffman.
- Won't somebody answer my question about what Mama Francis, what was she talking about that it was her darkest hour?
Sleeping with my knife just in case
- I didn't buy Roger's breakdown at all and I love John Slattery's work. First of all he looked like he was having a fit of laughter. And the build-up to it was unconvincing. Did we ever see Giorgio? I don't think so. I know it was Roger's delayed reaction to the death of his mother but still.
- So who is the Ken: New Guy? Have we seen him before?
- Betty had that weird friendship with Glen, it doesn't surprise me she'd say something so inappropriate about Sandy.
- R303, Do you see the new accounts guy, Bob Benson, as a young Pete? To me, he's a young Don, presumptuously sending a tray of food to the wake, "bumping" into Don at the elevator and, [italic]coincidentally[/italic] carrying two full mugs of coffee, offers one to Don, before offering him tickets to the Cotton Bowl. All this reminds me of young, brash Don stashing his portfolio into Joan's mink coat box addressed to Roger, and then [italic]coincidentally[/italic] running into Roger at the lobby of Sterling Cooper a few days later, where he offers to buy him drinks at 10am. Don has become Roger, an ineffective elder statesmen oblivious to what's going at the office, unable to score a hit ad idea, arriving drunk at social gatherings, cheating on his much younger trophy wife. And Bob is the young Turk ready to take his place.
I hope the Bob Benson character sticks around and develops into a major player. James Wolk is so adorable.
- I was attacked for saying I thought Betty's dad was a child molester. But Betty ain't right.
- I was just referring to Pete's sucking up to Don and Don's irritation at the beginning.
- [quote]I was attacked for saying I thought Betty's dad was a child molester. But Betty ain't right.
No, you were attacked for predicting that it would be revealed that Betty's father was a child molester and that he would molest Sally too.
Those are very different things.
Don't make yourself out to be a victim when you were just an idiot.
- Ah, James Wolk - he was in "Political Animals" - that's where I saw him.
- I loved this episode. I do have a question, though, and it might be obvious, but I missed it. Did something else happen with the soldier Don met in Hawaii, after he gave away the bride on the beach? I ask because Don made a big deal out of the experience he had in Hawaii, and I don't understand why he had the man's lighter. (Again--it might've been a simple thing I overlooked.)
- R317, Don and the soldier presumably switched lighters accidentally while drinking at the bar.
- Was Burt Peterson the guy who had a hissy fit when he was fired a few seasons ago?
- R319, Yes. Burt was head of accounts.
- Big ass Stan is in The Lucky One, I just started watching the movie on HBO
- R312 - Ben's wide-eyed earnestness and Cheshire cat grin is very reminiscent of early Don. Also, alliterative names: Don Draper - Bob Benson. Same number of syllables, too.
- “She thinks she’s 25 because she uses tampons.”
- And, r312, he gave the second cup to Pete Campbell. And it was as if Campbell had asked him to go and get it or had just become accustomed to that cup of coffee just showing up.
- I know it's happened but either I missed it or it happened so long ago last season that I forgot, so can someone refresh my memory:
When did Don sleep with his doctor's wife?
- sorry: his neighbor's wife (who happens to be a doctor).
- sorry: the wife of his neighbor the doctor
- I thought the rape comment was Betty's juvenile reaction to hurt feelings. She mentions that Henry said he wanted to spice things up in the bedroom. She very insecure. After years married to Don and now her weight gain, last season she wouldn't let Henry see her get out of the tub. She even ask, "Would it ruin it if I'm here?"
That squatter makes a comment about her being a bottle blonde, now she's a brunette.
- With so much detailed nitpicking here, it's astonishing that anybody could take Sylvia for Jewish.
She made the Sign of the Cross when Jonesy fell.
Her husband emphasized that she of course observed Christmas.
She was spoken of as Italian.
The camera focused on a crucifix on her bedroom wall.
Some Jewess! Come on, bitches, you can do better than that!
- I agree about thinking that the story about the Bloomingdales raid would somehow trail back to Sal. I am also happy that Stan and Peggy still are friends. I always loved their relationship. Her scenes were the most enjoyable of the ep and I loved that she is portrayed as her own person and not Don's shadow. I have mixed feelings about the ep as do most other posters but feel that the same thing happened last year and ultimately the season had some of the most emotionally charged eps ever. The Peggy leaves/Joan sleeps with the client and the Lane death eps rank as some of the most powerful tv ever. So there is hope.
- I love this show, and agree with r330. Last year's opener was one of the weaker episodes, too. (Is it something about filling two hours, maybe?) Anyway, there was much in this first episode that I liked, and I do love the way they just add characters without explaining them much. Love the new female creative, (probably hired for the client who complained about Peggy leaving) and the fact that she seems like the last person you would expect to be hired for that position.
- [quote]Love the new female creative, (probably hired for the client who complained about Peggy leaving) and the fact that she seems like the last person you would expect to be hired for that position
Maybe the writers wanted to stay away from yet another attractive female in a position deemed powerful or threatening, as those all seem to end up - in 1960's advertising anyways - sexually or romantically entangled with their male workers , for a wide variety of reasons (lust for power from both sides, male suppression of a female yielding too much of it, etc.). Maybe they didn't want to have to start a new romantic arc on the new hire, which they would have been compelled to do had she been hot.
- Who cares why they did it, r332, I just love that they did. I have a feeling she's going to become a favorite as the season progresses.
- I like the frumpy older woman in creative (I wish we had learned her name!), and it's interesting how disparagingly the men speak of her when she's in the room. I expect little from Ginsberg (who seems to have something like Asperger's and behaves rudely to people constantly) and Stan (the biggest sexist), however.
I like when the show brings new characters in--it's always interesting. I hope we learn more about both Dawn and Ken this season--I feel they've not been given enough to do yet over the course of the series.
I also hope we get to see more of Trudy Campbell this season. She's one of my favorite characters, because she's much nicer than any of the main characters (excepting Megan), but she's also got this inner steely core so she can force Pete into doing things he often doesn;t want to do. I worry Alison Brie is still so busy with COMMUNITY she'll have a reduced role like last season, which means we'll see more of Pete's philandering--which gets boring since I don't find Vincent Kartheiser (Pete) physically attractive (though he's a terrific actor), and because we're clearly going to get lots of Don's philandering this season again.
- I miss Kitty and her baby-dolled long legs.
- Kartheiser and his co-star from last season Alexis Bledel (sp?) just got engaged in real life.
- Bledel's apparently a pissy little bitch. I read somewhere that the crew hated her on MM.
- Thanks r335, I also miss Kitty and would love to see how things have turned out. Is she remaining Sal`s wife with full knowledge of his proclivities? Maybe with a kid or two thrown in to keep it authentic?
I always felt that despite the obvious, Sal was the only man at Sterling Cooper who actually LIKED his wife.
- I miss:
Paul Kinsey's Princeton classmate Jeffrey
Midge the dope addict
and most of all, Rachel Menken.
- I don't miss what Paul Kinsey became. I liked the Paul Kinsey who was dating that chick who looked like one of the Vandellas.
- I miss Lois, the nervous switchboard operator who ran over the guy's foot with the lawn mower.
- Weiner is an outsider and doesn't get the WASP mainline Betty character at all. She'd drink not eat!
- R342, lots of WASP ladies got fat. Yes, some just drank and smoked to avoid eating, but many also never regained their figures after having kids, and at 35 years old looked like a matronly 50.
- R343, my mom (who was about Betty's age around '68) had a size 4 waist before and after having kids. She's an 8 nowadays, which compared to American women as a whole is thin.
- Weiner is the nerdy kid who now looks up to the hot babes, that's why there is so much worship of Megan from him.
- Yes, R344, but the plural of anecdote is not data.
- Teefs is a hot babe?
Skinny, no tits, and god-awful teeth!
She does have beautiful eyes though.
- Megan (Jessica Pare) is stacked. She has lost a little weight from last season and a little boob, but she's still busty.
- Crazy to think that Daphne Zuniga was the original Megan and was fired after her first episode. Would love to see the footage of La Zuniga that they scrapped when they hired Teefs!
- There is a Daphne Zuniga troll
- What R349? Daphne as the original Megan? She's 15 years older than Jessica.
- [r351] Don't feed the troll. Brings up Zuniga on all tv threads
- [r325] Did you fall asleep during the episode?
- Zuniga was too busy with Speilberg
- I want Stan to get caught in the Bloomie's men's room.
- Mad Men is a journey. You should just watch it, be observant and STFU.
- I know you guys can't be bothered, but if you think Jessica Pare's tits are small, you can see them in all their glory in a Canadian film called "Lost and Delirious."
- Listen up, bitches: Matthew Weiner ISN'T trying to please YOU.
- Then he'd better start.
- Getting back to Sal for a moment (and what doesn't eventually revolve back to Sal?)I agree that he seems to be one of the few if not only men on the show to really love his wife and there was so much that Weiner could have explored with his character. He was fired just when so much was happening to him on a dramatic level and it was also the very first beginnings of a gay identity outside of what society and the media portrayed. Oh well...alot of characters ebb and flow on this show but if they can bring back characters like Mona and Paul occasionally can't there be a bit with Sal. Peggy could run into him at Julius or something....
- [r360] I love you
- R360 - I bet we'll see Sal again,
- How did Sandy get into Betty's life?
- Betty's elaborate rape scenario with the girl... Jesus Christ.
- Thoughts from a megafan having just watched it:
Betty - no WAY she goes on the journey downtown to look for that girl. Everything leading up to it made sense - Betty finding someone on her emotional level - 15 year-old girl. they need to explain what is going on with her in subsequent episodes -maybe she's had an awakening. In any case, I think the character has fulfilled her usefulness and as much as I love Mother Francis they are distractions from Don, Peggy and Joan who are all more interesting in their potential.
Don has been fucking the doctor's wife for a while - she mentions giving him "her book" to read in Hawaii - Dante's Inferno. I wondered why Don was reading it - he almost always reads things non-James Bond only when prompted by another character. For instance, the guy in the bar reading "Meditations in an Emergency". It appears Linda Cardellini is only in the first two episodes so either nothing comes of the affair or Megan finds out and drama ensues.
He gave the doctor the camera out of guilt, it is astonishing he has the lack of morals to feign a friendship with him and have them over for New Years without batting an eyelash.
Speaking of sociopaths... Ken isn't a sociopath, he just knows smarmy when he sees it and the new "cute" guy is a classic brownnoser. Even the secretary gave him "i hate you" looks when Ken was tearing him a new one. He's Pete Campbell but MORE annoying. Wonder if he'll get his toes run over by a lawnmower...
I think it was clearly the first time a fan had approached Megan, I sense she is new to the soap and her role is about to be expanded. She deserves better than Don.
Don and Peggy had the same reaction to a client seeing danger in their ad ideas tonight. Its funny that you catch yourself seeing Peggy as more strident and even bitchy when she's simply doing the same thing Don would do. BUT, Peggy can now turn it into a better idea when it isn't clear that DOn still has what it takes.
Jane and Mona are class acts. It is telling that Roger couldn't see the benefit of sticking it out with either of them.
I agree with others in that this was definitely my least favorite season opener and among my least favorite episodes. I just watched the whole series again in preparation and you can definitely sense a sharp drop in this episode. I'd like to give them the benefit of saying that is an intentional choice as the series peters out, but I don't think so.
- Ray Abruzzo, the doorman, was on "The Sopranos" as Little Carmine Lupertazzi, who always botched cliched sayings.
- [quote]What that whole scene said to me is that Betty is a mentally disturbed person who has no sense of what is appropriate and that she has serious emotional issues.
R293, that writer should have seen that from season 1, where Betty bitchslaps women in grocery stores.
- Betty does have issues, but the scene in question reminds us that it wasn't that long ago when rape jokes were not the taboo that they are today. We've definitely made progress in some areas.
- [quote]Do you see the new accounts guy, Bob Benson, as a young Pete? To me, he's a young Don, presumptuously sending a tray of food to the wake, "bumping" into Don at the elevator and, coincidentally carrying two full mugs of coffee.
You know nothing about the show. Don would NEVER have done things like that. He is not an ass kisser. He's gotten by on guts, some natural ability, a stolen identity and the type of good looks that make people trust you and want to see you succeed. Bob pulled a straight up Pete Campbell move. Remember, Ken's biggest rival has been Pete, not Don. He sees a little Pete in Bob and is going to let him know who is boss right away.
- [quote]Ben's wide-eyed earnestness and Cheshire cat grin is very reminiscent of early Don. Also, alliterative names: Don Draper - Bob Benson. Same number of syllables, too
Jesus, Don has NEVER been earnest or wide eyed. Guess who else's name has the same number of syllables: Pete Campbell.
- R369, you're not remembering how Don got into the business in the first place. He did exactly the kinds of things that the new guy is doing now.
- [quote]He's gotten by on guts, some natural ability, a stolen identity and the type of good looks that make people trust you and want to see you succeed.
That's all true, but everyone still has to kiss a little ass in the beginning. And Don did too.
That said, I don't think Don and Benson are intended to be mirrors of one another. Can we get more than two episodes into this thing before the conspiracy theories start?
- The season openers and closers are always a bit more contemplative because Weiner writes them. He fancies himself a great artist, or at least he tries to elevate Mad Men beyond what series tv usually does, and no one is going to edit him or tell him what to do. The best episodes in the traditional sense of surprises/twists/plot developments are always the few before the finale and sometimes the 2 or 3 after the opener.
- That's exactly what Don did, r369. Slip his book into the fur coat Roger ordered for Joan back in 1953 or 54, then 'bumping into Roger' at the elevator.
- r368 Henry didn't find her rape fantasy the least bit acceptable. And he's the very FACE of the patriarchy.
Face it, Betty is FUBAR.
- R371, please tell me when that happened. Don was inhouse at a fur company. That is pretty much all we know. Roger took a shine to him when buying his wife a fur, and other than that we know nothing of how Don got in at Sterling Cooper. Don is a confident person who doesnt suck up to anyone from the moment we meet him in episode 1. He shows some enthusiasm only in a flashback where we see him make friends with the guys in Anna's neighborhood who fix up hot rods.
It is so blatantly clear that the new ACCOUNT MAN (Pete and Ken are both account men, not creative) is a junior Pete, pulling the same kind of obvious things he used to do with Don. Plus, Ken and Pete compete with each other, not Don, so Ken would naturally lash out at Ben because he sees him as Pete.
- [quote]He gave the doctor the camera out of guilt, it is astonishing he has the lack of morals to feign a friendship with him and have them over for New Years without batting an eyelash.
He isn't necessarily feigning a friendship with the guy just because he's fucked the wife. Believe it or not, there are many of us for whom sex and love are not always related. It doesn't make you sociopath. It's a bodily function; it makes no comment on love or loyalty.
- You're right, I forgot about him slipping the book in Joan's coat. Still, I don't concede that he's supposed to be a ringer for Don because he's already working at SCDP. Maybe he's got Don's looks and Pete's personality? He's got the big education so he probably comes from the world of Pete, not Don and the whorehouse.
Or maybe he's the new corporate spy, lol.
- Do you even watch the show r376? Roger bought a fur for Joan and Don included a book of his work with fur when it was delivered. Then he met Roger at the elevators and took him out for a drink. and he was grinning broadly and bright eyed. It was a flashback a few seasons ago.
- r376 I think this was the episode where Midge shows up as a smack addict.
- Ordering up delicatessen to a funeral you aren't invited to and then lying about "there wasn't supposed to be a card" is pure weasel Pete Campbell.
- So R376, are you still going to say you don't see the parallels between the two characters now that you've watched the scene showing how Don got his job?
- Oh, I see some parallels with Don, but I think the parallels with Pete in terms of his background, position and general obviousness of his behavior are stronger. Unlike Don, he already works at SCDP and sucks up to everyone above him, probably on a daily basis. It feels like Ken's blowout has built up over time. When have we ever seen Ken get that upset with anyone?Then when caught he lies about it in the most obvious way. Pete has covered his tracks that way in at least a dozen instances, for instance the whole scenario with whoring out Joan last season. This new guy would whore out Joan in a second, Don wouldn't. You can see even the second floor receptionist hates him. OTOH, Don saw a chance connection with Roger once upon a time and made a shrewd move. Once he was in at SC he wasn't making an ass out of himself on a daily basis and being shit on by Roger.
- ALso, I can think of a handful of instances where Pete has sucked up to Don and/or Roger, especially on elevators where they're trapped, and being shot down or placated.
- The new account guy is Pete Jr. Look for him to get decked.
- Who else thinks Sally Draper grew up to be an adult film actress?
- [quote]Believe it or not, there are many of us for whom sex and love are not always related. It doesn't make you sociopath. It's a bodily function; it makes no comment on love or loyalty.
Yes, President Clinton.
- Ask Jon Hamm.
- Hey, whore at r377, Don obviously feels guilty about his extracurriculars at this point. He's realized he's trying to fill some infinitely needy void in his life.
- I forget which recent interview I read with JH but he said that playing DD "takes a toll on a person". I found that interesting, anyone care to analyze that?
- I think the reason Sal is gone is that the story would easily overshadow the rest of the show. I mean, how dramatic is the whole Betty story? Basically it's 'Is Betty going to be nice? Maybe... but not really' Or last season with Don loving Meghan Soooo Much!It's good but there's not a whole lot of tension.
The classic-type plots were all resolved early on. Don's true identity is no longer an issue. Peggy's baby and Pete's feelings for her were resolved at the end of season 2.
- R390, Well, Jon Hamm is really a good-natured, goofy guy. I'm sure playing a brooding, emotionally stunted man with a troubled history and wayward ways, while in buttoned down, brylcream drag week after week eventually wears him down. Sure he isn't playing Greek tragedy, but he's probably sick of the Don Draper persona and wants to try something different.
- Sal is gone because he was a minor character whose story has been told.
- [quote]The actress who played Don's new squeeze, Linda Cardellini, played Velma in the live-action SCOOBY-DOO movie ten years ago.
She also played the waitress Ennis tries and fails to make his love interest in "Brokeback Mountain".
- Good catch R394
- I recognized her as Chutney (the one who tearfully confessd to killing her father) from "Legally Blonde."
- Yes! Chutney with the bad perm.
- I would not be surprised if Sal or Carla (or even both) reappeared before the series ends. Carla had enough ties to the children that I could imagine her wanting to see them again if the opportunity arose, and I think it would be incredibly interesting to see how Sal would respond to the news about SDCP severing its ties to Lucky Strike. And it would also be very interesting to see whether he had kept up his marriage with Kitty (and how Kitty accommodated herself to her realization of Sal's other life).
That being said, I can't see either of them ever returning permanently to the series. The series is about Don (and to a lesser extent Betty, his first wife, Megan his second wife, and Peggy, his protege), and I cannot imagine Sal ever consenting to work again for Don, or Carla ever consenting to work again for Betty.
- Yeah, R395, its pretty hard to look up an actor on IMDB.
- Maybe Kitty Romano becomes a Rockette!
Do you think Peggy and Pete's kid is totally resolved? The writers were definitely aware of that past in the premiere when Pete came across Peggy holding Joan's baby.
I could see him wanting to seek out the kid at some point since that is his only real bio kid.
- Pete has a kid with Trudy.
- SPOILERT ALERT:
Don curiously follows the doctor from a distance through the city, and winds up in the mens room at Bloomingdales. His mojo gets the better of him and he is caught red-handed by cruising queen Sal, who uses this info to blackmail his way back into SCDP. Sal continues to wield his newfoud power over Don throughout the season, building up to a big dramatic climax at the annual office summer party. The reveal, however, is interrupted when Carla, still protective of the Draper family, shows up and pushes Sal down the office stairs just in time to stop him from spilling the beans. End of season.